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The Takeover: from poetry to prose with Christine Shamista · The Book Deal

0:09
Natasha Rai: This is the Book Deal Podcast, monthly takeover by your host, Natasha Rai.
0:14
Natasha Rai: I'll be bringing you even more debut and season authors as they talk about their path to publication.
0:26
Madeleine Cleary: The Book Deal Podcast acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters which it's recorded on.
0:31
Madeleine Cleary: And pays respect to their elders past, present, and emerging.
0:39
Natasha Rai: Christine Shamista is a poet and writer of Sri Lankan Tamil ancestry, who lives on Wongal land in Sydney.
0:47
Natasha Rai: Her debut publication is a book of poetry, Soft Side of Red, published in November 2023 by Gazebo Books.
0:55
Natasha Rai: She has also published reviews and poetry in a range of journals, including Mascara Literary Review and Kill Your Darlings.
1:03
Natasha Rai: She is currently writing contemporary fiction novels.
1:06
Natasha Rai: She is an involved and passionate supporter of Australian writers, is on the Writing NSW board as a non executive director, and frequently attends a range of writers and readers festivals.
1:22
Natasha Rai: Hi, Christine.
1:24
Natasha Rai: Welcome to the Book Deal podcast.
1:27
Christine Shamista: Hello.
1:27
Christine Shamista: It's, um,
1:28
Natasha Rai: hi.
1:29
Christine Shamista: Lovely to be here, Tash.
1:30
Christine Shamista: Thanks for having me.
1:32
Natasha Rai: Oh, it's my pleasure.
1:33
Natasha Rai: And it's extra exciting for me'cause you're my inaugural guest on my monthly takeover.
1:39
Christine Shamista: Well, that is very exciting.
1:40
Natasha Rai: Yeah.
1:41
Natasha Rai: Um, so if it's okay with you, where I'd like to start is, um, just talking a little bit about your, your poetry collection, um, which was published in 2023.
1:51
Natasha Rai: So what we tend to do on this, um, podcast is we have, we invite our writers to give us a little elevator pitch.
1:59
Natasha Rai: for their work.
1:59
Natasha Rai: So over to you.
2:02
Christine Shamista: Yes, thank you.
2:03
Christine Shamista: And it's always, um, it's the thing that every author knows that they need to do.
2:08
Christine Shamista: And it's really tricky to give that pitch.
2:12
Christine Shamista: But yes, my, my, my first book Soft Side of Bread was published in November 2023 by Life Before Man, um, a poetry input of Gazebo Books.
2:23
Christine Shamista: And it's a series of recollections from my childhood, youth and adulthood.
2:28
Christine Shamista: Um, spanning my experiences from living in Sri Lanka, England and Australia, uh, and it's a collection that also explores how the past informs our present and future.
2:39
Natasha Rai: Wow.
2:40
Natasha Rai: I mean, I have, I have read it, so I, it really touches me when you say that because there's certain poems that are coming back to mind when you say it like that.
2:49
Natasha Rai: So we, did you always intend to have those collection of poems as, um, kind of an anthology or in the way that they are?
2:58
Natasha Rai: To put together now?
3:00
Christine Shamista: Oh, that is such a great question.
3:02
Christine Shamista: Absolutely not is the answer.
3:04
Christine Shamista: Um, you know, and how this collection came together.
3:08
Christine Shamista: Um, it's, I think it's quite an interesting, unexpected story.
3:13
Christine Shamista: Um, I've been writing poetry for Decades, you know, bits of started off with phrases on bits of paper and in notebooks.
3:21
Christine Shamista: Um, and in 2000, I did my honours in my Bachelor of Arts and I specialised in literary studies.
3:29
Christine Shamista: And that was the first time that I took a creative writing class.
3:32
Christine Shamista: And one of the requirements for that was to, um, share a piece of writing with your class and I wrote the piece really easily.
3:41
Christine Shamista: I found it easy to immerse myself in creating that short story, which was half in prose and half in the poetic form.
3:51
Christine Shamista: Um, the painful bit for me was sharing it.
3:53
Christine Shamista: That was really painful.
3:55
Christine Shamista: Um, but I had.
3:56
Christine Shamista: Yeah, that first time you put you read your words out absolutely terrifying, but I was, I had a class of terrific peers, and they were very supportive and they gave me really helpful feedback and they suggested that the whole story should be.
4:12
Christine Shamista: Um, as a poem, so I made it into a poem and, um, when I returned to Canberra and I finished my, um, finished my law degree, um, I decided that I'd have a go at getting it published.
4:25
Christine Shamista: And I submitted it to a university journal that did publish some creative pieces.
4:30
Christine Shamista: Um, and it got published, which was delightful.
4:32
Christine Shamista: And that was, you know, encouraging.
4:34
Christine Shamista: And I continued to write.
4:37
Christine Shamista: Yeah, yeah.
4:38
Christine Shamista: And I continued to write poetry, but, um, for a good 10 years after that, you know, my kind of, my, my writing career took, took over.
4:49
Christine Shamista: Um, and then, you know, come, came the time that I thought, no, I want to write again.
4:54
Christine Shamista: So I joined Writing NSW, joined a couple of writing groups, and one of them was a poetry group.
5:01
Christine Shamista: Um, and, um, I was in that group for a couple of years and the practice was to write a poem and share it every week.
5:09
Christine Shamista: And that really got me writing and got me into really great flow.
5:13
Christine Shamista: And some of those poems, um, I entered into competitions and some of them got, um, published in journals, um, and anthologies.
5:21
Christine Shamista: Um, and occasionally during that time, I thought, you know, it would be kind of cool to, um, have a book of poetry.
5:29
Christine Shamista: Um, but it was sort of just a thought.
5:31
Christine Shamista: Um, it wasn't the main, um, aspiration at that time.
5:36
Christine Shamista: And then one day I got a message, um, from a poetry editor who had come across my poems in an anthology.
5:42
Christine Shamista: Um, and he liked them, and he asked me if I had more, um, and whether I ever thought of, publishing a poetry book.
5:48
Christine Shamista: Um, and that after that initial conversation, um, you know, I pulled together poems that I'd written over the years.
5:57
Christine Shamista: And I also started to, um, write some more poetry and started pulling them together in, in a collection and a frame that I thought kind of made sense.
6:07
Christine Shamista: Um, and, and, and then, um, submitted it to him and, you know, and then it took.
6:13
Christine Shamista: Um, quite some time, but it eventually culminated in, in the book, but yeah, it was, it was, um, you know, not, not that, you know, determined I'm going to write a book of poetry at all.
6:25
Christine Shamista: It, it came in bits and pieces and, and yeah.
6:29
Natasha Rai: Wow.
6:30
Natasha Rai: And you know, our listeners, a lot of our listeners are really interested in, um, our writer's publication journey.
6:35
Natasha Rai: So for you, it came out of kind of a really good writing practice, especially in terms of.
6:40
Natasha Rai: Your poetry, and then this editor found your work and contacted you.
6:46
Natasha Rai: So when you say it took a little bit of time, what are we talking like months, a year, years?
6:55
Christine Shamista: It took, so it, so I think I spoke to him towards the end of 2019.
7:01
Christine Shamista: Oh, wow.
7:02
Christine Shamista: Because I remember then the summer holiday.
7:04
Christine Shamista: Yeah, yeah.
7:05
Christine Shamista: And then the summer holidays came and, um.
7:09
Christine Shamista: And that's when I sort of pulled things together and, and, and did a bit more writing.
7:13
Christine Shamista: Um, and then we touched base, um, early the next year.
7:16
Christine Shamista: And then my, yeah, my book was published in November 2013.
7:20
Christine Shamista: So it, you know, really did take some time.
7:22
Christine Shamista: 2023, you mean?
7:25
Christine Shamista: 2023, yes, yes, yes.
7:28
Christine Shamista: The years all blur a bit.
7:30
Christine Shamista: Yes, they do.
7:32
Christine Shamista: So, you know, there was some significant breaks in between, um, and, um, and that was also really good for the process in hindsight.
7:40
Christine Shamista: Like there was definitely moments of impatience of, is this coming together?
7:44
Christine Shamista: Um, you know, it's taking a long time, really mindful of that.
7:47
Christine Shamista: There can be.
7:49
Christine Shamista: First of when you're, you know, um, you're engaging with a publisher, you know, to get it just to get it out there.
7:55
Christine Shamista: But, um, it took time and I'm actually really grateful it did because so much changed.
8:02
Christine Shamista: All the poems got edited quite a bit and it was quite a bit of work to make it one part with, you know, separate poems, but, you know, to stick together, to hang together the way that it did.
8:13
Christine Shamista: Um, and of course COVID happened during that time as well.
8:15
Christine Shamista: It was a, but, but yeah, time, time in hindsight was really wonderful because, um, you know, you could really just be distanced in between.
8:24
Christine Shamista: the writing.
8:25
Christine Shamista: I would do lots of writing of other things in between as well.
8:29
Christine Shamista: Um, but this collection took, took, took its time to come together.
8:33
Natasha Rai: Yeah.
8:34
Natasha Rai: And Christine, I really want to talk to you about your fiction work that you've, that you're working on.
8:38
Natasha Rai: But before we do that, another question, a lot of us who have, you know, short things published, like short stories or short pieces, or even have a movement towards publication.
8:50
Natasha Rai: I think for the most of us, The time can catch us off guard, like how long things take, um, because, you know, by the time your book is out and you're talking about it at events or whatever it is, it sounds like, oh yeah, then I wrote this and then somebody was interested and then you submitted it.
9:07
Natasha Rai: And then, you know, but actually there's so many periods where.
9:11
Natasha Rai: Nothing much happens.
9:12
Natasha Rai: Do you remember how you kind of navigated all that, especially given that we went to a couple of lockdowns?
9:19
Christine Shamista: Yeah, look, I mean the frustration that comes with writing, like, you know, makes you think, why do we do it?
9:24
Christine Shamista: It's such an emotional process.
9:27
Christine Shamista: Yeah, lots of writing, lots of unknowns.
9:31
Christine Shamista: You know, I think, um, And, and, and wondering if it's going to actually happen.
9:36
Christine Shamista: Um, and, you know, even like just until you, you get the book, you think, is this going to, is this going to happen?
9:42
Christine Shamista: What's this going to be like?
9:44
Christine Shamista: Um, the mind can go in overdrive.
9:46
Christine Shamista: Um, but definitely I think grounding myself, um, you know, the, the things that, you know, keep me kind of motivated is to continue reading, you know, like, um, to really remember the joy of being lost in a story.
10:03
Christine Shamista: and being absorbed.
10:04
Christine Shamista: Um, and that's why I write, you know, for me, but, you know, to, to do that, to provide it to the writers, uh, to the readers as well.
10:11
Christine Shamista: Um, but also, you know, the, the friends along the way, the book people who, who, um, you know, can be such great champions and, and, and help along the way just to, you know, Talk about what's going on, encourage along the way who, who, who've been through this process before.
10:30
Christine Shamista: Um, you know, that's really invaluable.
10:32
Natasha Rai: Yeah.
10:33
Natasha Rai: We all, we all find our book angels, I think.
10:36
Christine Shamista: Yeah.
10:37
Christine Shamista: Yeah.
10:37
Christine Shamista: Yeah.
10:37
Christine Shamista: And we need them.
10:38
Christine Shamista: And I think, you know, and I hear that so often, even with people who published, you know, two, five or more books, you know, each, each book seems to have its own process, its own challenges.
10:51
Christine Shamista: Um, and you know, It's, it's a tricky, it's a tricky journey.
10:56
Christine Shamista: It can be really tricky when you get yourself in knots.
11:01
Christine Shamista: story gets in knots and you don't know how to untangle it or you get that block along the way and that happens even when you're writing in close to publication you can it can be like can I look at this again or I just don't know if it's working and the self doubt I mean that's that's a lifelong challenge for me and for many writers um but that definitely um came into play at several times in this publication journey.
11:26
Natasha Rai: God.
11:26
Natasha Rai: Yeah, they're just so much.
11:27
Natasha Rai: I continue to in my writing journey.
11:29
Natasha Rai: Yeah.
11:30
Natasha Rai: So then speaking of writing, your writing journey, um, you're working on different things now.
11:36
Natasha Rai: Not, are you still writing poetry or are you kind of focusing mainly on novel length works?
11:44
Christine Shamista: Yeah, I do write bits and pieces here and there, and it's the same thing.
11:48
Christine Shamista: It's not like I'm, um, planning to write another big work, um, but I, I do write poems.
11:55
Christine Shamista: And for me, it's often the way that I wrestle with an idea or a thought or an experience.
12:01
Christine Shamista: Um, and so it's definitely a really helpful, um, tool.
12:05
Christine Shamista: process for me and just something that comes quite naturally to still write a poem, um, or two here and there.
12:12
Christine Shamista: Um, but I am, I have been focusing on longer pieces, um, and, uh, working on, um, novels, um, fiction novels, and that's been my, my main focus for the last little while.
12:25
Natasha Rai: And how, how, is that different for you in terms of that creative process from writing a poem to writing something like a novel length?
12:36
Natasha Rai: Manuscripts.
12:38
Christine Shamista: Yeah, it is in some, in many ways it's not in that it's still, it takes time, like poetry can be so deceptive in that you think fewer words, you know, and so the process might be easier.
12:50
Christine Shamista: But what I have learned is fewer words does not equal less wrestling with getting, getting it right and for it to land.
12:59
Christine Shamista: Um, but.
13:00
Christine Shamista: Yes, it's definitely, um, it's a, it is a different process in that, you know, I mean, so many words, thinking of the story and all the, um, the characters, the subplots, the, um, and the way it all comes together.
13:14
Christine Shamista: Um, very much so.
13:18
Christine Shamista: In some ways, though, I find my, um, writing of novels.
13:24
Christine Shamista: It can also come to me in fragments.
13:26
Christine Shamista: Um, you know, every, every, um, like a novelist has a different process, but, um, it's definitely not one that I write from the beginning to the end.
13:36
Christine Shamista: Um, and in that sense, um, it's a bit similar because poems come like that to me as well in fragments.
13:43
Christine Shamista: Um, so yeah, quite different.
13:45
Christine Shamista: And, you know, so many words and you've got to remember what happens.
13:48
Christine Shamista: And I often, um, yeah, in that sense, but, um, you know, It's also really lovely to stick with a story for a long period of time and really get to know, know that story and keep polishing it.
14:00
Natasha Rai: And how has this experience so far been for you?
14:04
Natasha Rai: Because I know that you're working on a couple of manuscripts and that You attend conferences and festivals.
14:12
Natasha Rai: I know you've done a few pitch events, which scare me, but you have much more bravery than I do.
14:18
Natasha Rai: Yeah.
14:19
Natasha Rai: How are you navigating?
14:20
Natasha Rai: So scary.
14:22
Natasha Rai: How are you navigating all of this?
14:24
Natasha Rai: Um,
14:27
Christine Shamista: yeah, look, I, I just sort of, um, plunge myself into it at different times in terms of the various elements that go with writing.
14:37
Christine Shamista: So, um, you know, I definitely like want to make sure that I'm still putting myself out there in my writing out there.
14:43
Christine Shamista: I mean, that's the first, that's the way my poetry came into the world, you know, but someone just.
14:49
Christine Shamista: Um, you know, picking up a book and finding them, you know, finding bits of my poetry there.
14:54
Christine Shamista: And I think that reminds me, um, to write and to put yourself out there.
14:59
Christine Shamista: Um, and, and I have conversations, active conversations, um, with people in the industry.
15:04
Christine Shamista: So the pictures, yes, they, they, um, they can be quite terrifying.
15:10
Christine Shamista: And, um, you know, How you talk about a book is also a very different headspace, um, you know, like thinking about it, like, um, the people in the publishing industry do, you know, what is a, what is your, what is your hook?
15:22
Christine Shamista: What is your elevator pitch?
15:25
Christine Shamista: Um, are all different ways of thinking about your work.
15:30
Christine Shamista: But really helpful because you've, you know, you've got to know that in order to engage with it.
15:34
Christine Shamista: So I definitely, you know, try and put some time into that too.
15:37
Christine Shamista: Um, and, and, you know, talk to people who've done this along the way in the process.
15:43
Christine Shamista: But, you know, I think.
15:45
Christine Shamista: It can also get really overwhelming and that, that part of the work takes time, like when you submit your work, whether it be to a competition, to another reader to give you feedback or to an agent or a publisher, they don't cut, they, you know, they take their time, understandably.
16:01
Christine Shamista: Um, and so.
16:05
Christine Shamista: For me, grounding myself and keeping focused is just to continue to write.
16:12
Christine Shamista: And I think I have, I just, I often have a couple of projects on the go, you know, something that's quite polished, but I'm still editing.
16:20
Christine Shamista: And then, you know, another story, I mean, I just, Oh, there's so many things I could write about Dash, like if, you know, and so I think just keeping myself occupied, um, and writing, um, keeps the joy in it for me.
16:32
Christine Shamista: I mean, that's.
16:34
Christine Shamista: I primarily something that's, for me, reading it, um, and it to be joined in that way is big too.
16:45
Christine Shamista: So, you know, it's, it's, it's definitely a journey.
16:49
Christine Shamista: And, and it's, it's a marathon.
16:50
Christine Shamista: It's not a sprint, it's a, you know, it is, look, it looks different in diff at different times the business of it, and then the actual act of writing and rewriting, which.
17:00
Christine Shamista: You know, the rewriting is 90 percent of the writing.
17:04
Christine Shamista: Um, and it's all consuming.
17:06
Christine Shamista: Yeah.
17:07
Christine Shamista: Yes.
17:07
Natasha Rai: Yeah.
17:08
Natasha Rai: So it's, it's really interesting that you talk about the business of it because, you know, I personally struggle with that a lot.
17:14
Natasha Rai: Like I'm terrible at writing synopses.
17:16
Natasha Rai: I'm terrible at writing pitches.
17:19
Natasha Rai: Um, and I literally just get dumbstruck and someone goes, what's your book about?
17:23
Natasha Rai: And I just like, uh, Oh, Oh.
17:25
Natasha Rai: So for you, is that.
17:28
Natasha Rai: Something that you've honed that you've actively worked on.
17:31
Natasha Rai: Like, how do you do that?
17:33
Natasha Rai: Do you separate the two out or yeah, I'm curious about that.
17:37
Christine Shamista: Yeah, no, it, it does not flow.
17:40
Christine Shamista: The business of it, writing a pitch is so hard.
17:42
Christine Shamista: And yes, I'm thinking of it in that way.
17:45
Christine Shamista: You know, when people say, what is your story like comparable titles?
17:48
Christine Shamista: That's the hardest as well, like for me to kind of think, Oh, it's like, it's like this book or that book, you know, because I think when you're right, when it's your story, like And you're in it, you see it and you conceptualize it a completely different way.
18:04
Christine Shamista: Um, and, um, that's why I just find sharing, sharing my work, um, with people and getting feedback is everything, you know, it, they can see what you can't see.
18:16
Christine Shamista: I just honestly think there are.
18:18
Christine Shamista: Authors cannot say so much about their own work.
18:21
Christine Shamista: Um, and so it's really helpful to get that feedback.
18:25
Christine Shamista: Um, but I go into zones of it with the business.
18:28
Christine Shamista: I think I just go.
18:29
Christine Shamista: Yep.
18:29
Christine Shamista: Okay.
18:30
Christine Shamista: In the next couple of days, I'm going to smash out a synopsis or, you know, and, and.
18:35
Christine Shamista: Try and read other ones and, and, and go for it, but it's a lot of work.
18:39
Christine Shamista: And I really struggle with it too.
18:40
Christine Shamista: Thinking of the, thinking of the, the piece that way, and then packaging it up that way is really hard.
18:46
Christine Shamista: I'd love for someone to do that, do all that part of it for me, but alas, not yet.
18:53
Natasha Rai: And, you know, and that kind of, um, move from different forms as well, because You know, lots of emerging writers have written short pieces or have submitted nonfiction essay type pieces and have been published.
19:08
Natasha Rai: And there feels like sometimes, because I remember feeling like this, a huge leap between that early publication or early signs of success and then trying to get a novel accepted from someone by someone.
19:23
Natasha Rai: How do you, what keeps you going?
19:25
Natasha Rai: Like, how do you navigate the submission trenches, which I've heard have been caught before?
19:31
Christine Shamista: I think that's a great way to describe it.
19:34
Christine Shamista: And there were just so many false starts.
19:37
Christine Shamista: That's in this journey.
19:39
Christine Shamista: Like, you know, you think, you know, Oh, I found an agent.
19:41
Christine Shamista: That's it.
19:42
Christine Shamista: Or a publisher is kind of interested and they want to read more.
19:46
Christine Shamista: This is it.
19:47
Christine Shamista: Um, and it's, and you know, and it's not that way for so many people.
19:51
Christine Shamista: I think, you know, um, I'm really, I always remind myself and, you know, writers events are fantastic for this and podcasts.
19:59
Christine Shamista: I love, I think that's how I keep company with other writers is I love.
20:04
Christine Shamista: hearing writers talk about their books and their experiences.
20:08
Christine Shamista: Um, and, and what I've learned is that every publication journey is so different.
20:13
Christine Shamista: There are really established writers out there who have written like 10 plus books before their first one gets published.
20:19
Christine Shamista: And some get published on their first and on a pitch, you know, um, and it's, it's, It's a challenging and a time consuming process and you will not become a millionaire, probably, from this, from writing.
20:32
Christine Shamista: Um, and so, and so I think, you know, that's why I really, I, I choose to really write stories that intrigue me and, and that I love.
20:42
Christine Shamista: Um, I won't say that I write what I know, um, you know, but I think if you write what you love, then every time you're refining it, you're going to enjoy it more.
20:50
Christine Shamista: You, you want, you want to find out more too about this idea, these characters, what are they going to do?
20:56
Christine Shamista: Um, how can I really kind of test them?
20:59
Christine Shamista: How can I see, how can something really different in this story emerge?
21:04
Christine Shamista: Um, you know, and because I kind of, I'm a.
21:07
Christine Shamista: Prancer.
21:08
Christine Shamista: And I, you know, the story is just, the story unfolds and all the stories within the story unfolds as I write.
21:15
Christine Shamista: Um, and I love that process.
21:17
Christine Shamista: Like I've tried to plot, but I just really love the magic of finding out what happens yourself and having no idea what's going to, um, going to happen down the road.
21:27
Christine Shamista: Um, so I think, you know, that's really helpful to me.
21:31
Christine Shamista: And I think, yeah, I said before, keeping connected to those book people, they, they support me.
21:38
Christine Shamista: You know, from when I'm like, you know, you get a rejection and I'm never doing this again.
21:43
Christine Shamista: Um, you know, they're the ones that can kind of keep prodding you gently sometimes a bit harsher sometimes.
21:50
Christine Shamista: Um, but they know what's required and, you know, they can just really, um, speak truth to you.
21:55
Christine Shamista: And that's, that's just so helpful as well.
21:58
Christine Shamista: But I mean, I think also like, I mean, I said before, like just continuing to read stories that just make you go.
22:04
Christine Shamista: Wow, this is amazing.
22:06
Christine Shamista: And isn't, yeah, art books awesome and art stories awesome.
22:10
Christine Shamista: Um, I just, you know, are just so key.
22:15
Christine Shamista: Um, and I also like, you know, it's really hard to get good feedback.
22:21
Christine Shamista: Um, Because it can be really hard to kind of go, Oh, what do I do with this?
22:26
Christine Shamista: This is clearly not, this means this isn't working or it's not ready.
22:30
Christine Shamista: And that can be disillusioning because often when I've handed over a manuscript to someone, I've thought it's ready, I'm, you know, I'm done.
22:37
Christine Shamista: And then, you know, to, to hear, to hear that harsh feedback, it's like, Oh.
22:41
Christine Shamista: That's going to take ages.
22:43
Christine Shamista: Can I do this?
22:45
Christine Shamista: And so quickly, um, you know, I can spiral into, maybe I shouldn't do this.
22:50
Christine Shamista: And it can just, you know, it can be on the edge pretty quickly when it comes to writing and because it is such a solitary process.
23:02
Lisa Torreno: My name is Lisa Torreno and I'm a writer from Melbourne and a member of the 2025 Debut Crew.
23:07
Lisa Torreno: My young adult novel Prince of Fortune hit Australian shelves on January 29th.
23:12
Lisa Torreno: With a Regency flavoured setting, Prince of Fortune is a romantic fantasy for older teens about Saban's shy Crown Prince Edmund, who has a rare magic that hasn't been seen in centuries and who is buckling under the weight of his country's expectations.
23:26
Lisa Torreno: It has been prophesied again and again that he will be a great king one day, and if that wasn't bad enough, he's expected to make a marriage befitting of his station.
23:33
Lisa Torreno: And then he meets Lord Aubrey Ainslie.
23:36
Lisa Torreno: Charming, romantic and politically insignificant, Aubrey is a seer, but his dream visions have been full of battle, not love.
23:43
Lisa Torreno: He never expected to feel this way about his crown prince.
23:46
Lisa Torreno: As the two become more and more intertwined, the nation of Sabin falls under attack.
23:50
Lisa Torreno: War and dark sorcery loom on the horizon.
23:53
Lisa Torreno: To save their homeland, Edmund and Aubrey must resist the outside forces seeking to drive them apart and find a power within themselves to create a future they could never have imagined.
24:03
Lisa Torreno: Prince of Fortune has sword fights, spies, stolen kisses at balls, murder scarecrows, creepy forests, political maneuvering, and the horrors of small talk.
24:12
Lisa Torreno: Simon Schuster gave it the most gorgeous cover and interior design.
24:16
Lisa Torreno: It has an old school fantasy map in the front and everything, and they did an amazing job with the audio book as well.
24:20
Lisa Torreno: So I hope any audio listeners will check it out.
24:28
Christine Shamista: That's one of the reasons why I'm striving for continual traditional publishing as well, because that process of, you know, editorial input.
24:36
Christine Shamista: and different ways of seeing your manuscript and seeing it shape, um, I think just helps make it better.
24:41
Christine Shamista: Like you heard about my poetry book, it took so long.
24:45
Christine Shamista: And, um, that was deeply frustrating in some ways because, you know, there were so many times when I thought, is this actually going to happen?
24:53
Christine Shamista: And, um, you know, I don't know if I can look at this anymore.
24:56
Christine Shamista: Um, At the end of it though, I read, I read that now, and I just, I'm so proud of myself and that and that piece of work, and had it had, it happened really quickly, it would not have been the same book, you know?
25:06
Christine Shamista: And I do want my work to be good work.
25:09
Christine Shamista: I don't wanna be published for the sake of being published.
25:11
Christine Shamista: I want to be proud of what I write, and I want it to be enjoyed, and I want it to be the best it can be.
25:18
Christine Shamista: So, you know, I think.
25:20
Christine Shamista: Reminding myself that all the, you know, apparent roadblocks and stumbling blocks and, um, you know, challenges along the way will actually.
25:31
Christine Shamista: Make it better.
25:32
Christine Shamista: And I'm just really stubborn, Tash.
25:36
Christine Shamista: I'm just, this I want to be a published, um, writer that just keeps writing.
25:42
Christine Shamista: I don't want the one book I want to write and, um, hopefully retire one day writing.
25:48
Christine Shamista: And that's just what I do into the sunset.
25:51
Christine Shamista: And I just, so I'm going to keep going and I'm going to keep getting better at it.
25:55
Christine Shamista: Um, and fortunately for me, that rains, Transcribed Supreme.
25:59
Christine Shamista: So it keeps me going, but it's so it's, it's hard and it's hard to get a break.
26:04
Christine Shamista: And, but I think also it's hard for when you get the break.
26:07
Christine Shamista: I know so many writers who have written one or two books, and then it's really hard to get other books.
26:14
Christine Shamista: Published it's a, it's a really interesting and challenging industry publishing.
26:20
Christine Shamista: Um, and it's, and so, yeah, and you know, increasingly so, so much is going on in the publishing industry, um, generally and, and in Australia.
26:28
Christine Shamista: So.
26:29
Christine Shamista: But I just think to myself, I can't get paralyzed by that.
26:33
Christine Shamista: I just, I want to focus on my stories.
26:35
Christine Shamista: I want to, you know, I'm always thinking about what's my next read going to be.
26:40
Christine Shamista: I want a really good, um, you know, book to, to sink into.
26:44
Christine Shamista: And I want to make mine brilliant so that when someone reads it, they can't, they can't say no to it.
26:49
Christine Shamista: And that's the, and that's where I'm heading to.
26:53
Natasha Rai: And, you know, just hearing you talk that your love for storytelling and reading is just coming across so strongly.
27:01
Natasha Rai: And I was going to say that usually we ask our, um, writers for their top tips, but you've already given me so much, um, in terms of what keeps you going.
27:11
Natasha Rai: So it sounds like for you, it's, um, definitely.
27:14
Natasha Rai: Access to community writing, writing book related community, and then the joy of storytelling like that is so strong, that pleasure in what you're writing.
27:24
Natasha Rai: And I really sometimes feel because I've experienced this where when you're, when you're writing and you're submitting, sometimes you can lose track of what it's all for, as in the joy of the actual creation.
27:38
Christine Shamista: Oh, so
27:39
Natasha Rai: true.
27:40
Natasha Rai: So true.
27:41
Natasha Rai: And so just having you remind me of that, I'm like, oh yeah, that's why we're doing this.
27:47
Natasha Rai: Yes, yes, you know, a lot of us want traditional publication.
27:51
Natasha Rai: Yes, a lot of us are trying to get it.
27:53
Natasha Rai: Um, but ultimately it's that absolute joy and pleasure of writing something and creating a story.
28:01
Christine Shamista: Yeah, absolutely.
28:02
Christine Shamista: And I mean, I've, I've sat across from you when we've talked about book writing and we can get really excited really quickly.
28:11
Christine Shamista: It's really great to be around people like that because, you know, we've, we, we're very nerdy in our own way in that way.
28:17
Christine Shamista: But, um, it can be quite contagious and fun.
28:20
Christine Shamista: Like, you know, books are awesome.
28:22
Christine Shamista: Stories are awesome.
28:23
Christine Shamista: I, you know, it's my form of meditation sometimes.
28:27
Christine Shamista: reading and writing and, you know, being able to get lost in another world.
28:31
Christine Shamista: I mean, we need that.
28:32
Christine Shamista: We, story time, storytelling is just so, um, key, like it's just, it's been there forever.
28:38
Christine Shamista: That's how people have connected and shared, shared history.
28:42
Christine Shamista: And that's all about telling stories.
28:45
Christine Shamista: It's going to continue.
28:46
Christine Shamista: It's how we.
28:47
Christine Shamista: It's how we connect.
28:48
Christine Shamista: They are really important.
28:50
Christine Shamista: And, um, and so, yeah, I think, yeah, it's just, you know, I, um, what is that book?
28:57
Christine Shamista: The, um, The Artist's Way by Julie Cameron, which I think, which I hadn't read.
29:02
Christine Shamista: It's been decades, I think, since I've read that book, but it talked about, um, all the things you can do to keep the creative flow and the creative juices, um, you know, going.
29:11
Christine Shamista: And I remember one of the suggestions were, was to take yourself on artistic dates.
29:18
Christine Shamista: And that could be like going to a bookshop, which is a very dangerous and wonderful thing to do.
29:24
Christine Shamista: Um, and also like, but also like, you know, I mean, I do art, I do the odd art class here and there or a craft class.
29:33
Christine Shamista: I'm not.
29:34
Christine Shamista: I'm not talented in those ways, but I do love getting lost in doing that and, um, and, and going to the theater, you know, and, and, and just watching the different forms of storytelling and creating, um, and that keeps me grounded too, you know, and just, and, and keeps, I think.
29:52
Christine Shamista: Keeps the stories and the process going, like even when you're not sitting down and writing a story, the stories percolate and they come together and I loved in your newsletter this week, Tash, how you wrote about, um, being in a festival and, you know, and your, you know, your brain was working as you were, you know, no doubt really engaged in that session, but then suddenly something in a story you were writing kind of You know, you found a way you thought, Oh, that's how it's going to be.
30:21
Christine Shamista: And then again, that happened to you, um, when you were having a conversation with somebody.
30:27
Christine Shamista: Um, and I think, I think that's such, that was such a great way of describing what it's like.
30:32
Christine Shamista: It just, you know, yeah, things can just sit there and you think you're not writing.
30:38
Christine Shamista: And often, I mean, I work full time.
30:40
Christine Shamista: Um, so, you know.
30:42
Christine Shamista: There is not much time, like, in terms of, you know, during the day, I have to find bits of time and then find chunks of time in order to get my writing done.
30:50
Christine Shamista: Um, so I can get really down on that sometimes and think, Oh, you know, I, it's still only 20, 000 words.
30:57
Christine Shamista: And, you know, I've got ages more in my story to go and I haven't figured this or that out.
31:02
Christine Shamista: But actually I, you know, I think a lot of work happens about a plot, you know, just.
31:08
Christine Shamista: During life and being attuned to other things and then suddenly things come together as well.
31:14
Christine Shamista: And, um, yeah, yeah, it's fun.
31:17
Christine Shamista: It's fun.
31:17
Christine Shamista: Yeah,
31:18
Natasha Rai: it
31:18
Christine Shamista: is.
31:18
Christine Shamista: I think.
31:19
Natasha Rai: So I know.
31:20
Natasha Rai: You're always writing is my thing.
31:22
Natasha Rai: Exactly.
31:23
Natasha Rai: Exactly.
31:23
Natasha Rai: And then of course, it's a physical act, but you're right.
31:26
Natasha Rai: There's things happening in our brains all the time.
31:29
Natasha Rai: Making connections.
31:30
Natasha Rai: You know, seeing things that you're like, Oh, yeah, maybe that, maybe that, maybe not.
31:34
Natasha Rai: Um, but, you know, you mentioned, uh, just before about, um, kind of persevering and kind of continuing because you, you want this, you're still striving for a publication deal and you want to be writing until you retire.
31:48
Natasha Rai: Are there specific things that you do?
31:51
Natasha Rai: Um, to kind of manage or meet your disappointment when you get an answer that you don't like.
32:00
Christine Shamista: I think, um, I think I've learned over time, like there's been tears.
32:05
Christine Shamista: There's been, you know, going.
32:07
Christine Shamista: going to my husband and, you know, like, you know, it's this and, you know, I just, and, you know, he's a very gentle, lovely soul who'll just, you know, sit with me in those moments.
32:18
Christine Shamista: And I've definitely done that with friends too.
32:20
Christine Shamista: I'll definitely reach out and just, you know, just go, this happened.
32:26
Christine Shamista: Yeah, it's not happening this way.
32:27
Christine Shamista: And I really, really wanted it.
32:28
Christine Shamista: And, and having, giving yourself, giving yourself space to vent about, um, the disappointments, um, and the challenges.
32:37
Christine Shamista: Yeah, definitely.
32:38
Christine Shamista: I mean, that's, that's key, but I think also just being really gentle with yourself and going.
32:43
Christine Shamista: Yeah, I might take a bit of time to just sit with all of this.
32:46
Christine Shamista: I'm not going to make, I mean, I think that's become a lesson for me in life generally is like, when something happens that, you know, um, is stressful, um, you know, just really challenges you.
32:58
Christine Shamista: Um, and it really evokes a very visceral and strong reaction.
33:03
Christine Shamista: Um, and it does for writing cause it's just so, so damn personal, um, is, is to just take the time to breathe, digest.
33:13
Christine Shamista: And, and, um, you know, and then, and then get perspective on it, you know, it's, it's a long haul, um, each publisher, each reader is a very different person.
33:23
Christine Shamista: All stories are not for everybody.
33:26
Christine Shamista: Um, and also though, I mean, I've talked quite a bit about feedback.
33:31
Christine Shamista: I really love critical feedback.
33:34
Christine Shamista: Um, you know, I haven't always, it's really hard to take, but, um, it, you know.
33:41
Christine Shamista: It can really help, help your work get better.
33:45
Christine Shamista: And sometimes it, the outcome might be, all right, they thought that and I really don't agree.
33:50
Christine Shamista: Um, actually, you know, this is what I want.
33:53
Christine Shamista: This is this character.
33:54
Christine Shamista: Well, no, this, this journey has to happen.
33:57
Christine Shamista: Um, but at least it'll stop and make you think about it and really, you know, be sure about.
34:04
Christine Shamista: You know, what's happening, what's going on.
34:06
Christine Shamista: So, um, I just think, yeah, it's, it's really hard, but I've had a lot of rejections and, um, as you know, many, many listeners will have had, and it's really hard, but, um, it does make us.
34:20
Christine Shamista: Better.
34:20
Christine Shamista: It does make us stronger.
34:22
Christine Shamista: Um, and just, yeah, be gentle, be, being gentle with ourselves and just, yeah, um, you know, just to keep going through it, to keep walking through, um, despite those kind of hurdles is, is really important, you know, and, and remember, remember why you do it, remember why you love it and don't, don't make rash decisions, don't, don't listen to that voice that goes, I will never write again because, um, You know, you'll miss out, the world will miss out on, on wonderful stories that you've got for it.
34:58
Natasha Rai: I like that.
34:58
Natasha Rai: I like that a lot.
34:59
Natasha Rai: Um, and this, you know, the theme of time has come up a lot in our chat so far about the time it took to get the poetry book together, the time it takes to work on a manuscript, the time it takes to Submit and wait for feedback, um, and you know, and I really like how you say this time that you get helps make your work better.
35:23
Natasha Rai: So how do you know when it's time to submit something?
35:29
Natasha Rai: So when I say submit something, I don't mean like maybe for feedback, but maybe to someone like an agent or a publisher.
35:35
Natasha Rai: How do you, what tells you that it's time for your work?
35:39
Christine Shamista: I'm learning this over, I'm learning this as I go in that I think, but I do think that earlier on in this journey, I was so hungry to just get it off.
35:49
Christine Shamista: It's like, it's done.
35:50
Christine Shamista: Now I just have to get it into like, you know, how many hands, you know, how many hands to get into as many as possible.
35:57
Christine Shamista: Who is everyone that I need to email this to and let me do it straight away.
36:02
Christine Shamista: And I think over time I've just realized that, um, you know, unless you're presented with an urgent deadline, like, you know, everyone's always looking for a good story.
36:13
Christine Shamista: And, you know, um.
36:15
Christine Shamista: It is important to get it right and, um, for it to be the best it can be.
36:21
Christine Shamista: I, I think that's, I think I'm still learning that, you know, how slow you sometimes have to be, but I've taken, I think this year in particular, I feel myself, um, you know, just kind of Like easing up about like deadlines, which I make, so I often, I make a, I love a plan.
36:41
Christine Shamista: I love a plan.
36:42
Christine Shamista: And so I'll put in my plan, okay, in March, I'm going to send it off and, you know, to this reader and then in June to this reader.
36:52
Christine Shamista: And then August is when I'm just going to, you know, get it out to, you know, people in the industry.
36:58
Christine Shamista: Um, and I've just, I've been really like, I've got such a different approach this year.
37:03
Christine Shamista: I mean, ask me next week, it might be different, but at the moment it's like, no, no, I'm really going to wait.
37:08
Christine Shamista: I'm really going to wait.
37:09
Christine Shamista: And I'm going to really be happy with this and really, you know, be confident that this is the best it can be before I give it to other people.
37:17
Christine Shamista: Um, and I think, I mean, yeah, cause I mean, once it's a small industry, right.
37:22
Christine Shamista: And so once it's out there and publishes, um, you know, they have such.
37:28
Christine Shamista: You know restrictions on their time and what they can read.
37:31
Christine Shamista: Yeah.
37:32
Christine Shamista: Um, they're not going to give you like your, your besties or your family are going to give you like, it's just not going to happen.
37:39
Christine Shamista: Like, so, um, the best it can be really has to be.
37:42
Christine Shamista: And so I think, yeah, that's my lesson and my.
37:46
Christine Shamista: What I'm going with this year is just, yeah, the timeframes are all in my head.
37:50
Christine Shamista: I'm not in an urgent rush.
37:52
Christine Shamista: I mean, I am in that.
37:53
Christine Shamista: I want to, I want to be, I want, I want all the stories out there already, Tash.
37:56
Christine Shamista: But I think, um, yeah, no, no, it takes as long as it takes and other people in the writing community definitely have been the ones reminding me of that.
38:06
Natasha Rai: Yeah.
38:06
Natasha Rai: And
38:07
Christine Shamista: to get this right.
38:09
Natasha Rai: And that beautiful gem that you just said earlier was everyone's always looking for a good story.
38:15
Natasha Rai: Ultimately.
38:16
Christine Shamista: Yeah.
38:17
Christine Shamista: Yeah.
38:17
Christine Shamista: I mean, I've sat in that many conferences and, or, you know, you hear people in the publishing industry in a conference session talk about, yeah, I'm looking for this at the moment, you know, everyone's asking them, what are you looking for?
38:29
Christine Shamista: And I'll say, I'm looking for, um, you know, a zombie fantasy, rom Book, you know?
38:35
Christine Shamista: Yeah.
38:37
Christine Shamista: I mean, I haven't heard that actually, but you know, that's an example.
38:42
Christine Shamista: you know, but yeah.
38:43
Christine Shamista: And then, you know, suddenly, you know, there's a, there's a sense of the rooms like, okay, I'm gonna, that's what I'm gonna write.
38:49
Christine Shamista: And I have heard that before.
38:50
Christine Shamista: I've heard writers go, you know, I think I should write this.
38:52
Christine Shamista: 'cause that's what people are reading right now.
38:54
Christine Shamista: And you know, I think a lot of us writers have also often heard.
38:58
Christine Shamista: You know, if you write what's hot now and what specific things that publishers are looking for now, it's going to be not what they're up to by the time you're done, you know, like it's, you know, sure, you can write that way, but also like a good story is going to.
39:15
Christine Shamista: you know, be picked up,
39:16
Natasha Rai: you know, um, a good story is timeless regardless of, yeah,
39:19
Christine Shamista: yeah, that's right.
39:20
Christine Shamista: Yeah.
39:20
Christine Shamista: Yeah.
39:22
Natasha Rai: So I could talk to you all day, but, um, oh yeah, we're not going to, sorry, we'll do that offline.
39:29
Natasha Rai: Um, so I have a final question, which I know you've already been generous and offered so much, but do you have a tip or top tips to offer other writers who are kind of in that spot between.
39:44
Natasha Rai: You know, trying to get a major work like a novel published, maybe after having some early success.
39:50
Christine Shamista: Yeah, I mean, I think, um, you know, the top tip is like to write like first and foremost.
39:58
Christine Shamista: Spend the time writing, get the words on the page, get your idea on the page, it takes a lot of time, um, and you know, as I said before, most, most of your time after you've got it on a page is that you'll be rewriting it a lot.
40:12
Christine Shamista: So, like, you know, no matter what happens, remember that's what you need to do and enjoy and focus on.
40:20
Christine Shamista: Um, and I think also, you know, Just remember that, you know, um, every publication journey is so different, you know, I think, um, so really be open to what that journey can look like.
40:36
Christine Shamista: Um, because, um, and I think particularly like I don't, I don't write romance stories.
40:43
Christine Shamista: I write, you know, books with romantic elements, but I think what, um, being part of the romance, um, writers, um, communities has really taught me, because it's such a huge genre, the most popular genre out there, um, is that, People work in so many different ways to get their work out there.
41:01
Christine Shamista: There's so many ways to get your stories out into the world.
41:05
Christine Shamista: So many ways to self publish and also, you know, to get published traditionally.
41:10
Christine Shamista: Lots of people use different names and different strategies for books in a mix and method.
41:14
Christine Shamista: So, you know, just, you know, write the stories and then, you know, be open to what that journey, um, what that road to publication looks like for you.
41:24
Christine Shamista: Um, and, and, and hear other people's journeys along the way.
41:28
Natasha Rai: Oh, I love that because it's so true.
41:30
Natasha Rai: Everyone's journey is different.
41:33
Natasha Rai: Yeah,
41:33
Christine Shamista: absolutely.
41:34
Christine Shamista: And there's no
41:35
Natasha Rai: one way.
41:36
Natasha Rai: And this is, you know, the whole point of this podcast as well, just to highlight that.
41:41
Natasha Rai: There are so many ways and I really like this idea of staying open because every time somebody says no, yes, it's disappointing.
41:48
Natasha Rai: Yes, it's really hurtful.
41:51
Natasha Rai: And there could be another door that you can try after that.
41:56
Christine Shamista: That's right.
41:58
Christine Shamista: And I think the other thing, I mean, I've written a few stories over the years.
42:02
Christine Shamista: Um, and one of my, um, dear, you know, writer friends has told me is that nothing is ever wasted.
42:10
Christine Shamista: You know, so, you know.
42:11
Christine Shamista: Yeah, count them, be proud of each thing that you have written and keep them, keep them in your drawer because, you know, you never know when something you haven't touched for years or, you know, might come into play.
42:24
Christine Shamista: Um, you know, so I think, you know, keep writing, be proud of what you write, keep it and, you know, um, and keep going.
42:31
Christine Shamista: Like I want to hear lots of different stories.
42:34
Christine Shamista: I can't, I devour them and, and, and so do other readers.
42:37
Christine Shamista: So.
42:38
Christine Shamista: Just remember that, you know, people want to, people wanna hear your story.
42:43
Natasha Rai: Oh.
42:44
Natasha Rai: Oh, I feel so held right now.
42:47
Natasha Rai: Um, I think that's a really beautiful point and I think that seems a really good place to finish our chat for now.
42:55
Natasha Rai: Thank you, Christine, staff for being on Thank you to your podcast.
43:01
Christine Shamista: Thank you.
43:01
Christine Shamista: It's been so lovely to be here.
43:03
Christine Shamista: Thank you for the fantastic chat.
43:05
Christine Shamista: My pleasure.
43:16
Tina Strachan: Thank you for listening to the book deal podcast.
43:18
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43:25
Tina Strachan: And to keep up to date with what the pod is doing, you can also find us on Instagram.