Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to James Lark about his choice of The Invasion (8/8)

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Talks to James Lark about his choice of The Invasion (8/8) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:33
Hamster with a blunt pen knife for doing quicker Welcome back
0:37
to a hamster with a blunt pen knife The James Lark Diary
0:42
Commentary podcast. Sorry the the Doctor Who
0:45
commentary podcast with occasional excerpts from the the
0:50
Diaries of a 15 year old romantic failure.
0:52
Oh. Is that not the main show I'm
0:54
off in? Well, there's much more where
0:58
where it came from if you if you run out of Doctor Who to do
1:00
then. Since we've reached the climax
1:04
of the invasion, can we please reach the climax of your
1:07
relationship with Sally? Yeah.
1:11
Well, exactly 3 weeks in. Exactly 3 weeks into the
1:15
relationship. We're in half term so I've not
1:18
seen a lot of Sally, but I have written this entry.
1:22
I've written a shortish letter to Sally telling her she's
1:25
ruining my life. Oh no.
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Oh, three weeks in. It was it was an intense 3
1:36
weeks. She's ruining my life and
1:38
there's no point in my going out with her if she's going, if
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she's not going to be nice. The trouble is when I see her on
1:45
Friday, she may be less unkind. She might have my Doctor Who
1:50
video too. So as you can see, priorities
1:55
continue to be conflicted. The Friday event was.
1:59
You'll remember that I we, our relationship started in a church
2:03
service. This was a church youth party.
2:08
Joe, you might need to put some sad music under this one.
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Oh, please, I will. The violins are going.
2:15
I need to know how this ends. You're ruining my life.
2:26
Today has been the worst day in my life.
2:30
I went to the church party about an hour late.
2:33
Sally was there, but I didn't speak to me.
2:35
She didn't speak to me. I've written I didn't speak to
2:38
me, but I think I mean she didn't speak to me.
2:41
Maybe I didn't speak to me either.
2:43
You were in a very confused place.
2:45
She gave me her letter. She was still doing this in
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letters and I gave her my nasty one.
2:52
Can I ask you, did you ever have a conversation I.
2:55
Think I think obviously with a chaperone present of course we
2:59
may have taken the occasional turn around the garden.
3:02
We went outside to play some games.
3:04
It was virtually all first year girls and as the games were
3:07
rather babyish, Sally and I talked.
3:10
She said our relationship hadn't worked at all and she wasn't
3:13
comfortable going out with me because we'd previously been
3:16
friends etcetera. Everyone else went in but we
3:21
were left in this picturesque garden sitting on a crumbling
3:24
wall with the church in the background.
3:28
The sky was grey and it began to rain a bit.
3:33
We had a very long conversation, some was quite fun but mainly
3:38
she was saying she didn't want to go out with me but she didn't
3:40
want to dump me so it had to be a mutual decision.
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I wasn't going to give her yes let's break up because I want to
3:46
go out with her. So she dumped me, I've been
3:50
dumped. I'm not going out with Sally.
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When I think about everything I've done for her, given her
4:00
written her, I can't understand why I even let her read.
4:04
Two years in a bit of my private life and she dumped me after
4:08
just over 3 weeks. I now think her argument was
4:12
bollocks. James, honestly, I said to you
4:17
in the start of this, I'm not sure I could love you anymore.
4:20
But after that heartfelt reading, I mean, oh man, don't
4:26
you just want to give them a hug?
4:28
And just like, you'll be all right.
4:29
Sort of a hug and a bit of a shake as well.
4:31
Like, come on, pull yourself together.
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I. Like the family, but after
4:36
everything I'd written to her, or when you say what is it,
4:41
things weren't working out, etcetera.
4:43
A lot of things can be said in the word etcetera.
4:47
Oh boy, there's definitely a drama in this.
4:50
I mean, I mean. It's a comedy drama though,
4:52
right? Like.
4:54
Yes, it is a comedy drama. Just the people in it don't
4:57
realise you know what it is. It's a bit like the sort of, you
5:00
know, did you watch that Alan Carr one?
5:03
No, I didn't. It's a bit.
5:04
So that's him as a kid at the same sort of age.
5:07
Yeah. And just as clearly naive and as
5:11
sweet as you were at that age, but in a very different way.
5:15
Oh, boy, Oh boy. So that's it.
5:18
And then what? You've been your separate ways
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and. And she was cyber converted a
5:22
few years later, yeah. You know she dumped you.
5:25
She deserved it. Yeah, yeah.
5:29
I like the fact that you put she dumped me.
5:33
I am dumped. Sorry.
5:36
I'm sorry. I'm not laughing.
5:38
I mean, I am laughing, but oh, just.
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Oh, Sally. Well, there we go.
5:45
Well, there you go. Wherever you are, thank you for
5:48
providing 8 episodes worth of entertainment for have threw a
5:54
blood pen knife your cruel romantic thrusts at James.
6:00
I have now well recorded. And thank you also for the
6:03
greatest show in the Galaxy, but screw you for missing the 1st 15
6:06
minutes of Battlefield. You know, you missed that first
6:09
long shot of Excalibur sort of just glowing feebly in the rock.
6:14
Yeah. When did you first see that
6:16
then? Well, I saw I'm, I'm, I, I saw
6:19
it when it was repeated in 909293, the repeat season that
6:25
kept, kept being interrupted. So I have seen it.
6:30
But I think I, I think my parents were a bit funny about
6:33
videoing things or they were always, they were always
6:35
videoing something else when I wanted to watch Doctor Who.
6:39
We didn't keep a lot of stuff in those days.
6:40
So yeah, it was I'm. Trying to think of what sort of
6:42
what my equivalent would be of like not recording 15 minutes of
6:47
a Doctor Who to because obviously Mark's a Doctor Who
6:50
fan, right? I think it would probably be if,
6:55
because, you know, he's obsessed with ordering big finishes.
6:58
They turn up by the truckload every week to this house.
7:01
If I sort of gathered them up and pretend none of them came
7:04
and put them all in a cupboard. Honestly, he was hunting down
7:08
the postman the other week because he it didn't come for a
7:11
week, this stuff. And every time he saw the
7:13
postman, he's like, you got anything for 20?
7:15
He was going over the road to him.
7:17
I said, for fuck sake, it's a Peter Davis, a big finish.
7:20
Will you chill out? Yeah, I think that would be my
7:23
equivalent, but he would never forgive me.
7:25
I would also be dumped. Well, so that I mean that's
7:30
that's your strategy if you ever feel like Sally and you want to.
7:34
Get rid of him. Get rid of him but but make him
7:36
be the the one who instigates it.
7:38
No, I'm quite used to a certain sort of lifestyle with him being
7:41
here actually, if I'm honest. Well look James, we could could
7:45
talk about our love lives till the cows come home.
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I suppose we should go and talk about Jimmy and Isabel.
7:50
'S well, I like to think that in that situation where I'd just
7:54
been dumped and felt like my whole world was falling apart, I
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might possibly have gone home and watched this to cheer myself
8:06
up and but no, Well, I'm not sure I would have been
8:10
disappointed in episode 8 though.
8:12
No, good grief. Brilliant segue.
8:15
Thank you. Do you want to?
8:17
Come out of here. Yeah, OK.
8:18
It's. My turn is it?
8:19
Yeah, it's my turn. We will go in then.
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In 321. Let's go.
8:29
Oh, God. For some reason, episode 7's
8:30
just started. Wait.
8:31
Oh. No.
8:32
Oh no. Go back.
8:35
Oh Jesus Christ, now it's gone to episode 6.
8:38
Everyone stop. Everyone stop.
8:39
Please everyone stop your recorders.
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No one. This is sweet alongside let's be
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honest, how do I? How the hell do I?
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Stop your recorders. I I I suddenly pictured the ham
8:50
fam with with Trouten style recorders playing along to the
8:53
episode. That's not what you meant.
8:56
Figure out to get back to the episode 80.
8:58
Here we go, right? Hang on, hang on.
9:00
There we go. All right.
9:01
Should I count this again? I think you probably should,
9:05
yes. OK, Oh, I've never been that
9:08
technically inept for some time in 3/2 one off we go.
9:15
Maybe for entertainment value I was going to put on the first
9:20
episode of the Rebots operation. That would have been
9:23
entertaining. I would have done it.
9:27
Show, show, show what I see. I love her, you know, You know,
9:34
but how people say like they listen to podcasts for a better
9:37
company, James. People do say that, don't they?
9:40
Yes, yes. Yeah, You know, like it's, it's
9:42
nice to have a voice, you know, when you feel like you're sort
9:44
of part of a community. Yeah, yeah, different voices.
9:47
And all that. I think we've exemplified that.
9:49
Oh, it's but we. This today, haven't we?
9:51
It's a. Real community, isn't it?
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I mean, I feel like we've invited people into, into.
9:56
Our only thank you for inviting them all into your diary as.
9:59
Into my diary, I mean. There are some bits of my diary
10:02
I will not be inviting people into.
10:04
Oh please. Oh OK, off mic James, is this
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what you want? To be the ruler of a dead world.
10:14
Oh, and they're listening in, that's all.
10:17
What a what a great cast as well it because it looks it.
10:20
Oh, and a nice close up of Bentham for the for the ladies.
10:24
Oh, I'd rather have a close up of Nicholas Courtney, if I'm
10:27
honest. He's got sort of a bizarre
10:30
haircut, hasn't he? He's got a.
10:32
He has got a bizarre haircut, but I'm sure it's very much of
10:35
its time. See.
10:35
Look, she's been so great, Zoe, in knocking out all the
10:38
cyberships, and then they're all incredibly sexist about her.
10:41
Can't we keep her? Can't.
10:42
We keep her. She's much prettier than the
10:44
computer. And she just smiles.
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Thank you. You know what?
10:52
Oh, my word. What's going on?
10:54
This sounds like there's a very dramatic message coming in.
10:56
That's. A more awkward scene than I'd
10:57
remembered. The diminishive Zoe being just
11:01
surrounded by men, being horribly patronising when she's
11:05
just saved the day. What's the flap people?
11:08
Don't say that enough, do they? I I'm going to start saying,
11:11
what's the flap every day? I think once a day I'm going to
11:15
drop it in. I don't think enough bombs are
11:17
called Megatron bombs, you know. Yeah, was Megatron not a
11:22
transformer it? Was a Transformer.
11:25
Yeah. It just sounds super sort of
11:27
science fictiony. Oh yeah, definitely.
11:29
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, OK, so we're going to try.
11:33
So the bomb is the second climax, isn't it?
11:36
It's like, is the bomb going to go off?
11:38
And we all stare at a load of clocks.
11:40
I never quite understood and there might there might be a
11:44
reason. Sorry.
11:46
This whole bit's great in a minute.
11:48
Form picks up the Cerebral Tormentor and blast the shit out
11:53
of the Cypher controller. Drinks cabinet.
11:55
Yeah, Yeah. I never quite understood how
11:58
Zoe's rockets were able to take out the cyber fleet within
12:02
seconds, but the Megatron bomb is going to take hours, and they
12:08
send off a Russian rocket and it's hours.
12:11
It there's something about the time frame that's a bit strange.
12:15
I just want to cut all of that. Yeah, I.
12:18
Think so? Do you?
12:18
Know why this suddenly feels really dramatic?
12:21
It's because Vaughan and the Doctor are both panicking now.
12:24
Yeah, yeah. After being so casual with each
12:27
other. Oh that's a nice show I like.
12:33
I like the exploding cyberplant, the.
12:35
Exploding cyberplant? I'm guessing that the explosion
12:38
didn't go brilliantly because otherwise why did they white it
12:41
out? But maybe it's her.
12:43
Maybe they did. Maybe they it was a small
12:44
explosion and they didn't want to actually.
12:46
Looks a lot cheaper when it's a twisted bit of middle heart,
12:49
isn't it? He wisely cuts away from it very
12:52
quickly. But this, this is fab.
12:56
I could have done with episode after episode of The Doctor of
12:59
the Vaughan. And Vaughan together on the.
13:00
Run from the Cybermen. Yeah, and, and it's, it's, it's
13:08
a clever use of a set that we're so used to now.
13:11
He's sat in his ivory tower sort of all above everything and in
13:16
in this luxury. And now it's filled with smoke
13:18
and it's all falling apart. Oh, this is grey as well.
13:22
This is the shock bit, isn't it? With the sideman coming up to
13:25
the yes, look at that. And with the Don Harper goes,
13:33
it's a scary moment. He.
13:35
Drops all the comedy here. He's just terrified.
13:38
He's like the Cybermen. They won't obey.
13:40
What have you done? He starts shaking him and here
13:45
they come. Bam.
13:46
Dead. Suddenly.
13:47
We're losing our our semi regulars now.
13:49
Yeah. And it's quick and it's brutal,
13:53
isn't it? I like the the kind of chess
13:56
piece ray thing that effect as well.
13:59
I love how the negative effects makes that 60's pop art floor
14:03
and colours it's. Great.
14:06
Oh, Cybermen do fall over well, don't they?
14:11
Oh, now we're doing that thing in Season 6 of the doctor
14:14
shooting people. Yes, he does it in Season 10 as
14:17
well. It's OK when they're Cybermen.
14:21
Is that right? OK.
14:24
Well, they're dead already, aren't they?
14:25
Look. At Vaughan.
14:27
He ain't getting up now. Oh no, my plans are over.
14:29
Leave me alone. Isabel is superfluous now, isn't
14:36
she? She's completely, well, she's
14:40
going to take a camera, isn't she?
14:43
It's a great bit of comedy. There's she's going along with.
14:45
It's not. A necessity, isn't it?
14:47
It's. Not a necessity, but I wouldn't
14:48
lose that. I wouldn't lose that moment.
14:51
I mean, I wouldn't lose the bit at the end when they're in the
14:53
field doing all the comedy. No, I wouldn't lose that.
14:56
Utterly baffled by what's going on.
15:03
It's the set. I guess it's the same plot,
15:06
isn't it? Because they're, because they're
15:08
attacking it in two directions, they're going to try and the
15:12
Doctor's going to try and destroy the radio beam, which is
15:15
what they need to launch their bomb.
15:19
And but then Zoe's also going to try and launch a Yeah, that's
15:23
that's where I lose interest. I do.
15:25
Born is so self-centered, the Doctor goes, will you stop
15:29
thinking about? Yourself all.
15:31
My plans, he's going, they're all ruined and.
15:33
There are millions of people in the world about to die.
15:35
Yes. Are we forgetting Doctor the the
15:39
millions who have already died due to planes dropping out of
15:41
the sky and people crashing cars?
15:44
We didn't think about them for a second until news anchor James
15:48
Hadwin Bennett came on the screen and told us all.
15:52
It's like the Trinity Wells of Doctor Who podcasting.
15:55
Planes are falling out of the sky.
15:58
But you know what? He's got a great motive, though.
16:00
He just goes there. All right, I'll help you.
16:02
But just because I hate them, that's that's a great line.
16:06
He plays it really well. It could be crap because it
16:11
comes so soon after his self-confidence, but I think
16:16
Kevin Stoney really sells the idea.
16:20
Also, it is. I mean it's the IT is the
16:24
correct consequence for that level of hubris.
16:27
The Doctor. Looked at the bodies in the room
16:29
and went, Oh dear, as he walks out, I love him.
16:35
Trout could find business anywhere, couldn't he?
16:41
He's, yeah, he's such a, he's got really kind of funny bones.
16:46
I'm intrigued as Mark and I are doing a little sort of subpod of
16:51
the hamster of Doctor Who actors in movies.
16:55
We've done a Hartnell one, we've done the Hartnell 1 already.
16:58
And now which? One did you do for Hartnell?
17:00
We did. Oh my God, it was an amazing
17:02
film. Not Brighton Roll the other one.
17:04
Richard Harris. Game No, no, no, that's a.
17:08
Sporting life this sporting. Life, that's the one.
17:10
So yes. Incredible movie.
17:12
I mean, he's barely in it, so it was a bad start really, but it
17:15
was an amazing film. But we've chosen a comedy that
17:19
Trout and did. I'm just so intrigued to see
17:21
what he's like in a big budget picture because I'll tell you
17:28
what, he lights up ATV screen, yes, but the thing that we
17:31
realised making the list was they chose these actors because
17:37
they are very good television actors.
17:39
Yes, yeah. And not big Screen Actors.
17:46
Yeah, so the army game was ATV program, wasn't it?
17:49
The hard Yeah. Although he's incredible.
17:53
So that's the, so the Russian rocket is going.
17:54
So the the Russian rocket is there to take out the the main
18:02
the the ship from which the bomb is being launched, Is that
18:04
correct? That is correct.
18:06
Doesn't the stock footage look less egregious in black and
18:09
white? Yes.
18:11
It just looks like it's I. Think it's got the stock footage
18:13
is really well chosen and and the Harper score also sells the
18:19
illusion that it's part of the same thing.
18:24
Benson Benson got a a swing up into shot.
18:27
Camfield's given John Levine one of those.
18:30
Come on, John, you can do it. Turn in your share.
18:37
I think John Levine I. Am mean about John Levine, but I
18:41
do really like Benton. Yeah, I like Benton and I think
18:44
he looks great. Whatever he says about his limp
18:48
wrist, I I think he looks really good in these shots.
18:50
I just think when he talks, he's he it's he's slightly out of his
18:55
depth with dialogue. I just think it's rather
18:57
glorious that so many people took somebody who's clearly very
19:02
shy, Yeah. And brought him out of his shell
19:06
to the point where he's doing comedy and and some bits of
19:10
drama, you know, Inferno competently.
19:13
He's he's, he's rather good in Inferno, in fact.
19:16
I think he's great in The Three Doctors.
19:18
I think he gets some of the funniest moments in The Three
19:20
Doctors. I'm not looking at the Brig when
19:23
they're going in the TARDIS, you're looking at Benton.
19:25
No, and I feel like he relaxes around Troughton as well.
19:28
Yes. You get the sense there's
19:30
another mental figure there. Yes, as much as he does the big
19:36
love into Pertway every opportunity, I think it is
19:40
definitely the case of the the actors interviews post his
19:47
Doctor Who that have sour. Yes, yes.
19:51
Not the character, but you know him.
19:57
Oh, here we go on location now. Now.
19:58
Look at this location as well. Look at that shot of the sideman
20:02
in the doorway. So like just this is Doctor Who
20:11
is always on to a winner when it finds a slightly kind of
20:14
dilapidated. Location with plenty of doorways
20:18
and shadows and scaffolding and and you just all you have to do
20:22
is place. That's a great overhead shot.
20:25
Isn't it where they have the this this here where they they
20:28
shoot this again and spearhead from?
20:30
Exactly the same location, exactly the same.
20:32
Yeah. I mean, you've always said
20:35
earlier, James, about how Doctor Who may have peaked here.
20:38
Now we've got Kevin Stoney and Patrick Trouten on location with
20:42
a big gun hunting Cybermen. I mean, we may have peaked.
20:45
I think we can't. I think we probably have.
20:48
Yeah, yeah. They look so good as.
20:51
Well, don't they when they run, when they're running together
20:53
the way the Carlson scampers and I have to say, I mean, I've I
20:58
know people, I've heard the opinion that the scenes in the
21:01
spearhead from space are are better than this.
21:03
I disagree completely. I think this has Cam fields,
21:07
real artistry and framing shots like this.
21:10
This zoom in this zoom in here. I love a dramatic scene.
21:13
I don't think the scenes in the spear from the space are
21:15
dynamic. I think they're.
21:16
They're they're they're fine, but they're but, but this this
21:19
is on a a slightly different level, I think.
21:22
I think in terms of sort of the the fight though, I think maybe
21:27
Ferguson in Ambassadors of Death is up there as well.
21:30
Oh, it's, that's a, that's a very thrilling fight.
21:33
But then they've got havoc. They've got havoc, absolutely.
21:38
Them throwing themselves into it, haven't they?
21:45
Do you know what's unusual about this as well is to have this
21:49
much location work in the last episode you usually get?
21:51
Yeah, very. It's very unusual.
21:53
Oh, it's going to go through it. It's going to fall off the roof.
21:56
It's an empty. It's an empty suit.
21:57
But we don't care, because that is brilliant.
22:00
The thing you don't understand, James, is when you're hit by the
22:03
Cerebaton mentor, Oh, it's you go very limp.
22:07
You know, it sort of melts all your bones, yeah.
22:11
Troun's got to do a lot of roof acting in this story, hasn't he?
22:15
He uses that long coat really well as well because it's sort
22:18
of like flails like a cloak, isn't it?
22:20
Whenever he leaps about. But the bit in the minute, James
22:23
when he goes. I know I, I, I Canfield is, is
22:29
shooting the side men at slightly funky angles as well,
22:32
just subtly, subtly tilted. And they, they're just beautiful
22:37
pictures. What?
22:38
He very wisely does is oh man, there was a shot from below them
22:43
that was firing and. They've got guns.
22:46
They've got guns that actually fire flames.
22:48
How many Doctor Who villains actually have actual guns that
22:52
do stuff? What he did just then, right?
22:54
He positioned the camera so there were Cybermen coming
22:56
either side, so it looks symmetrical.
22:57
It looked very like a clean shot.
22:59
He blew up the two at the front and then had more coming from
23:03
behind. So they just felt relentless
23:08
and, you know, and. They do keep going.
23:10
They keep walking. Yeah, just feels like the Army.
23:12
They're being shot at and they keep going.
23:14
So I don't, I don't think they come across as a tall week here.
23:17
There's there's no doubt about how difficult it is to take out
23:21
a few. And then the Brigadier has a
23:22
line after this where he he says I'd hate to meet a whole.
23:26
Forget what he says, I'd hate to meet a whole squadron of them.
23:30
The. Ones on the streets at the end
23:32
of this. They're still there, presumably.
23:34
I mean this is. I'm going to mock them all up
23:37
the day with building more Surrey patron mentors.
23:44
I don't know, I can't wait to leave a bit where Trout is
23:50
sitting there having this picture take.
23:53
It's so great. The main control switches over a
23:58
zoom, crash, zoom. All it's lacking is Colin
24:02
Baker's face to really finish off the crash.
24:05
Soon that's. Right, if ducky cancel would
24:08
have been around. Your Time Lords I think camera
24:11
would have smacked. Him in the heads would have been
24:13
so dramatic. Oh, this is terrific as well,
24:17
his death where he just sort of slumps over the rail.
24:20
Yeah. It's quite nasty, isn't it?
24:28
It's a dramatic moment, isn't it?
24:29
He gets a proper. Followed by.
24:33
It's. Like, great.
24:37
Have you got the subtitles on? Yeah, it's actually.
24:41
Written out. Then the Brigadier comes in and
24:45
goes. Doctor get down, bazooka boom.
24:50
I mean, what more could you ask for in a climax?
24:54
Only, yeah, I mean, and you're quite right.
24:57
There's there's a problem here, which is that we've still got
24:59
another 9 minutes to go and and it has kind of ended and I just
25:05
straightening his bow tie. Yeah, see, this doesn't help.
25:09
Cut to them all smiling for for the moment the crisis is over.
25:13
OK, well, well done for setting the scene for your second
25:16
climax. Yeah.
25:18
And, and unfortunately, even in terms of stock footage, they
25:26
don't manage to pull this off as a so the something moving in
25:32
fast. Yeah, it's all going to happen
25:34
off screen. So it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's,
25:38
it's a, it's a bit of a misfire. Do you know what impressed me so
25:42
much about that action sequence we just saw?
25:46
It was less the action which was brilliantly staged.
25:48
It was the edits. Yeah, like you don't.
25:51
I'm not used to 60s Doctor Who game it.
25:53
Moves at a pace, doesn't it? Yeah.
25:56
Vaughan's death was literally a close up on the gun, firing
25:59
right into the camera. Vaughan slumped over, a massive
26:03
cut to the doctor's reaction. Back to the body, back to the
26:06
side, And it was just like, whoa, this is like muffin TV.
26:09
Yeah, and he's, he's clearly very efficiently taking certain
26:13
close-ups and and mid shots of the side men and of the soldiers
26:17
and, and he knows exactly how he's going to to work them in.
26:20
May I ask you to Fast forward to, let's say, 15 years to
26:26
Warriors of the Deep starting off season?
26:28
21 No. The action sequences in that,
26:32
where he clearly hasn't thought about how stuff is cut together,
26:37
well, they're on stage. They're all just no.
26:39
Cuts are there, they're just all kind of mid shots of people
26:42
standing in tiny studios kind of flashing lights at each other, I
26:48
guess. I mean, it's the same show that
26:52
you can do a lot more on location.
26:54
Yes, and Pennant can as well, to be fair.
26:57
Yeah, but he doesn't have Camfield's flair.
27:04
But let's be honest, few directors did.
27:06
Few. Directors did Camfield's and
27:10
he's he's. He's also quite unusual in that
27:13
his location stuff shows a real sensibility for film and film
27:19
editing, but his studio stuff shows a real technical gift for
27:24
where to put actors and how to move your cameras to keep even
27:28
the talkiest of scenes dynamic. I.
27:30
Mean, Barrelet said, didn't he, when he had to pick up Inferno.
27:34
And I know the direction isn't quite as good as Canvas would
27:36
have been. He said that his camera scripts
27:40
for the studio were very thorough, precise, that he could
27:44
just pick them up. He said.
27:45
Any other director and I think we would have been screwed.
27:52
So the So have have they? Have they?
27:58
There's the bomb, right? OK so the the bomb is coming.
28:00
Red alert. Missiles been shot into the air.
28:05
They used the same shot several times I.
28:06
Feel like this is the this is the issue as we've seen all of
28:09
the stock footage in the previous episode and that time
28:14
it it led to a a a glorious model shot.
28:19
Of I've got a question for you then.
28:21
Now you said in seven you were missing sidemen on the streets.
28:26
Yeah, after the inmate. And we're saying this is too
28:29
long of a climax now. So could this have been 7
28:32
episodes long with 7 and 8? All the best parts of it mushed
28:37
together, ending on the big fight on the street and the
28:41
Doctor being shot, and the invasion is over.
28:45
The problem is with that is that it's the Zoe's moment of triumph
28:51
is what gives us the cliffhanger and oh.
28:57
I. Wouldn't I don't, I don't want
28:59
to take away that cliffhanger and the way that everything
29:03
changes in that in that moment. You know what's?
29:05
Baffling, right? The Twice is doing one of their
29:10
things soon, where they're bringing together Caroline Ford,
29:12
Annika Wills, Wendy Padbury, right?
29:14
And they're choosing episodes of their those companions at their
29:18
best single episodes to be shown at Riverside Studios.
29:21
For Wendy Papri, they've chosen the Dominators episode 2.
29:28
Yes, exactly. Your silence speaks volumes.
29:31
Interesting choice. I would have chosen The Invasion
29:34
episode 7. I think I would have done the
29:36
same. Hey.
29:38
And we do. We do finally get an exploding
29:41
model, though it's not as good as the one we had in the last
29:43
episode. Back to Isabel.
29:47
Pictures. I think I, I think that is a bit
29:50
disappointing. What going back to Isabel's?
29:53
No, no, just the that, that's, that scene is a bit of a damp
29:57
squib. It's a, it's a, it's a weak
29:59
repeat of the scene that we had in the previous episode and a
30:03
not terribly satisfying model shot explosion.
30:07
This is reminds me of something that Michael Mills brought up
30:10
when we were doing Paradise Towers episode in that in 80s
30:15
Doctor Who, the domestic setting is basically abandoned.
30:18
Yeah, yeah. And it's such a huge mistake.
30:22
I think it adds so much going into people's houses, into
30:25
people's real lives and showing how these adventures affect real
30:29
people. I think this stuff is
30:31
invaluable. We don't get a lot of it.
30:35
We don't get a lot. It's it's dropped though
30:37
throughout the the pursuit era, which starts off with a lot of
30:42
it is strange, isn't it? Yeah.
30:43
But if you think about kind of think about Season 8 and the
30:49
number of domestic or workplace environments we see there,
30:55
compare that to yeah, really. Brings horror into people's
30:58
houses, doesn't it? Yeah, but even Mind of Evil
31:00
where it's slightly more kind of workplace oriented, but we get
31:04
we and and in fact, I would go so far as say colony in space is
31:08
is a domestic setting. It's just a on a different
31:11
planet. So if.
31:12
You think of like. And the and the demons, you
31:14
know, it's got scenes in a pub. When we do think of like Vivian
31:18
Faye's cottage, the stones of blood and stuff like that.
31:23
But we don't get much. We don't get much of it in in
31:25
that era either. Or in the pub in terror of the
31:29
Zeiggos. That kind of stuff.
31:31
Now I know it, but it is something that the new series
31:34
does particularly well. Yeah, I agree.
31:36
I agree. I'm enjoying all of this, all of
31:39
this frolicking in the field very much.
31:41
There's a wonderful car. I think I've just missed it.
31:43
Here we go. No, there it is.
31:45
Jamie and Simon going. Oh, he's vanished.
31:48
I wonder what's her, what's happened there, you know?
31:50
Nice to see Fraser Hines in this show.
31:52
My God, is he still in this? I thought he'd gone off to work
31:57
for UNIT and Isabel was coming in the TARDIS.
32:02
Look at Chow and waving his hand.
32:03
I love that. I mean, it's, yeah, it's a it's
32:06
a great choice, isn't it? Yeah, yes.
32:10
What a team. What a team.
32:13
Charisma Incarnate. Yeah.
32:16
Oh, James, what a delight. Now look, I had a few issues
32:21
with that second-half. Yeah, it's it's, it just, it
32:24
peaks a bit early that episode, but.
32:28
I think the most iconic stuff is in that second-half.
32:31
So, you know, the highs were incredibly high indeed.
32:35
Yeah. I know it's been a little while
32:39
since we've done this sort of thing, but you do realize now at
32:41
the end of this mammoth hang on, do you know what the first slot
32:46
ran for three hours. That means we've been going for
32:48
six hours now 6. Hours and I've got to choose
32:52
three. Cabulous things, That's right.
32:56
Oh, the BBC wish to acknowledge the help given to them by the
32:58
minute. Well, yeah, because that was the
33:00
army filming that that scenes there.
33:03
Douglas Canfield calling in a few favours probably.
33:09
I thought so, yeah. Look.
33:10
At that next week, the Crotons. That sounds very exciting it.
33:15
Does. I wonder if they're South
33:17
African? Anyway, So who's going to go
33:20
first then? You'll me?
33:21
Do you go first? Come on, what's your first one?
33:24
Oh, oh, right, I should have. I should have thought about this
33:29
before, shouldn't I? I was too too obsessed with
33:33
finding relevant excerpts from my Diaries.
33:37
I mean, I'm pleased you did spend the time doing that.
33:41
OK, I'm going to. So it's it's it's it's we've
33:46
already said it, but I'm but I'm because I I want to have Kevin
33:50
Stoney, but I also want to have Patrick Troughton.
33:52
I'm actually going to go for for the double axe.
33:54
The fact that those scenes. What's on your list?
33:58
You're. Taking both of them.
34:00
OK, go on. I'm taking them specifically
34:02
together because I think whenever they are on screen
34:04
together, whether it's in the studio just doing dialogue or
34:08
whether they're running about with a machine killing off Simon
34:12
and they are absolutely hypnotic.
34:15
I think they have a chemistry that feeds on both of them being
34:22
brilliant individually and and produces something that's
34:25
really, really unusual actually. And Doctor Who that that level
34:30
of sheer crackling energy between two performers.
34:35
Well, if you want to talk about delivering something unusual
34:38
with sheer crackling energy, I am going to have for my first
34:43
one, Don Harper's score. Oh, you fiend.
34:47
Well, you, you took Trout and Stony.
34:50
I have nothing but contempt for you right now.
34:55
It's a really unique score, isn't it?
34:58
Very unusual. There's nothing else sounds
35:01
quite like this in Doctor Who, which gives this a signature all
35:06
of its own, but it apart from possibly the UNIT theme which is
35:13
Jolly Daddy's, does do something similar next year.
35:16
He does. He does come up with his own
35:19
unit theme. So, jolly old time being in the
35:22
Army, you know, I think that's the idea anyway.
35:26
But no atmosphere, mood, pace, those wonderfully timed dramatic
35:31
stings when Cybermen appear on screens and things like that.
35:36
Yeah, I mean, you could probably talk more eloquently about this
35:39
score, but I think it's one of the best.
35:43
Yeah, I mean, actually the, the the thing about that score is
35:46
that it's not a particularly sophisticated score.
35:50
In some ways it it feeds off by by 1969, certain conventions
36:02
have established around spy drama and spy films, and it's
36:07
slightly taking what John Barry had done for the Ecrest file.
36:14
I think that's in the right order, isn't it?
36:17
When was the Ecrest file? I'm going to have to look it up
36:21
because that I might have done a tiny wimey, anachronistic thing
36:27
there. But the.
36:28
But the sound of the dulcimer is by yeah, 1965 S yes, totally,
36:34
totally, totally. I shouldn't have doubted myself.
36:38
The the sound of the dulcimer is associated with spy drama, as is
36:44
that kind of bass, but quite serious spy drama.
36:46
He's not doing John Barry doing James Bond.
36:48
He's doing like this is, you know, quite serious drama about
36:54
mind control, that that's the kind of genre we're looking at
36:59
and and it just grounds the whole thing, doesn't it?
37:02
It makes the whole thing feel like it's a more serious world
37:05
than the world. Like, much as I love the stock
37:08
music that's used for assignment in the 10th Planet onwards, I
37:12
feel like this places them in the real world and it just makes
37:15
lends the whole thing much more of a sense of oh this is serious
37:18
then that they're here. I cared about this score so
37:23
much, but do you remember I told you about my mixtape Doctor Who?
37:28
The best scenes when I put together 2 and the star I can
37:32
remember it is Banner and it's the scene of them down in the
37:38
sewers. I think that was the opener of
37:40
my mixtape Doctor Who. Ah, wonderful score.
37:43
Anyway, back to you. My second thing is London.
37:48
All of London. Yeah, all of London.
37:52
I think that more than any other Doctor Who story, this, this
38:01
makes the capital city feel like a real place.
38:04
And it's got your your iconic St.
38:06
Paul's shots. But even in those shots, it's
38:10
Saint Paul's, but with manhole covers.
38:12
And it's Saint Paul's in the background of, of quite
38:15
industrial looking buildings, not industrial, but sort of
38:18
office blocks. It's not a glamorised version of
38:24
the capital. It's an attempt to kind of do
38:26
the real thing. And the streets that we see for
38:29
the most part are ordinary London streets.
38:33
And we see ordinary London people affected by this cyber
38:36
plot and we see London terraced houses and, and oh, and Millbank
38:45
Tower, of course, the, the tower that's used for international
38:49
electromatics, which is, it's, it's a slightly unusual office
38:53
block just in terms of the, the architecture.
38:55
It's kind of it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's quite a, a pleasing
38:58
shape, but it is basically just your, your London office block
39:02
and remains kind of one of the most impressively tall ones in,
39:05
in Westminster. I love that.
39:07
I love the the the sense that it gives a kind of contemporary
39:12
London or near contemporary London and the the completely
39:18
different flavour it gives the show.
39:19
It feels like nothing, nothing else before it except possibly
39:23
the war machines. It's it's sort of doing the
39:25
same, the same thing as the war machines, but the war machines
39:30
is, is slightly kind of artificially trendy.
39:33
And it's also, it takes place in the, the, off the, the offices
39:39
of, of posh people and, and MPs and Sir Charles and, and, and
39:43
it's this slightly kind of otherworldly thing.
39:47
It's still, it's still, it's still a London through a, a
39:50
slightly glamorised lens. Whereas this is just down and
39:55
dirty London where people work and where people live and
40:00
there's Cybermen in it. Just that normal St. that
40:03
they're being pursued down at the end of episode 1 or the
40:06
railroad railroad yard. You know that they the.
40:08
Railroad or or the OR the canal? Yeah, I really wish we could
40:15
have seen that helicopter because I think that all out
40:18
location would have been so great.
40:21
My second choice is Jamie and Zoe because I think that
40:26
together they are a delight, but this story proves that apart,
40:33
they are a delight as well. Interestingly, the first half of
40:35
the story, which writes out Zoe for a large chunk, pairs Jamie
40:42
up with the Doctor throughout. So Jamie doesn't really exist in
40:46
his own right. They're they're the double act,
40:48
but it's the perfect double acts at that point.
40:51
They're so In Sync with each other.
40:54
The second-half of the story, which writes Jamie out, let Zoe
40:58
go solo and she's more than up to the task, I think.
41:02
And it's exactly what happens in Power of the Dialects with Ben
41:04
and Polly. I don't know if there's holidays
41:06
there, but in 1/2 of the story you lose Polly and the other
41:10
half of the story you lose Ben. And independently they both work
41:14
really well as as well as they do when they come together.
41:18
I just think it's a great time for Doctor Who companions, the
41:21
60s. It's as much about the charisma
41:24
of the actors as it is about the writing, because that isn't
41:29
always there. But fuck me, you want to watch
41:33
them. They are really entertaining to
41:34
watch. So yeah, Jamie and Zoe.
41:36
Absolutely agree. Yeah.
41:40
Well, I'm pleased. Troughton Troughton did well
41:42
with companions as well. Really.
41:44
Well, yeah, I mean like I'm, I'm hard on Vic.
41:47
You're hard, you're too hard on Victoria because I think she has
41:49
a really interesting journey and I think when she's working,
41:52
she's a really interesting companion.
41:54
She has a, a thing to offer, but she's also like emotionally
41:57
she's going, she has, she has to deal with more than most
42:02
companions. Like there are more real
42:04
repercussions for her than than most companions go through.
42:06
I think there's a Victoria commentary, you know, as James.
42:10
At that point. In the future, well, what's your
42:12
third thing? Oh, Cosgrove Hall is my third
42:15
thing. I don't, I don't think that
42:19
animation has been bettered in the Doctor Who animated range.
42:25
And that's by no means to talk down the achievements of
42:30
subsequent releases, But by golly, this set the bar high.
42:34
And I think it's so stylish and so beautiful to look at to the
42:39
to the point where there's a part of my brain when I'm
42:42
watching those animated episodes going, I wish I could watch the
42:44
whole thing like this. And as we've discussed, I don't
42:48
really wish that because I think we lose.
42:50
That's crazy, yeah. We we lose, we lose, I agree.
42:53
But do you see what I mean though?
42:54
It's like, you know, it's a different way to experience
42:56
Doctor Who and, and such a classy job.
43:00
So, and thank, thank goodness they did that because they sort
43:03
of showed that it was possible and how just how well it could
43:06
work and just how well also it could integrate with existing
43:12
episodes. Because I think when they
43:15
announced it, I was a little bit cynically, I had my double VHS
43:18
with Nicholas Courtney providing linking narration.
43:21
Why did I need animation for goodness sake?
43:23
But the minute I saw it, I was completely turned around and so
43:27
on. And I do wish that we still
43:33
occasionally got animations that were that stylized.
43:39
Yes, yeah, I agree. I think some of the later
43:43
attempts, I'm very pleased to have them on.
43:45
Please exist. They're certainly not as
43:49
pleasing on the eye as the invasion.
43:51
Yes, I kind of wish they maybe still would have gone out of
43:55
business, but I wish that they'd just done them until that
43:58
happens, because I think we would have had some fabulous
44:02
animation. Well, James, we're coming
44:05
dangerously close to have you. Chosen 1/3?
44:08
Have you chosen 1/3 to do? It right now.
44:10
Oh. Right.
44:10
OK, this is just. Not my little sort of preamble.
44:12
OK, right. We're coming dangerously close
44:15
to choosing our free fabulous things and not choosing Douglas
44:19
Canfield. Yeah.
44:19
Well, so that was that was. I'm going to have to choose
44:22
Douglas Canfield for my last one, because I think above
44:27
everything else, I think that is the glue that holds all this
44:33
together as stylishly as it is. And Pharrell, we've talked about
44:37
scene transitions, we've talked about pacing, we've talked about
44:40
edits, we've talked about framing.
44:43
We've talked about how he shoots the actors.
44:45
We've talked about how like he presses on lighting scenes in a
44:50
particular way. He just has a visual flair and a
44:56
dynamism that so few directors in classic Doctor Who ever had.
45:02
God, we were lucky to have him. I don't know what the exact
45:05
quote is. There's that wonderful quote
45:07
that Terence Dix says where Cam Field goes.
45:09
You know, oh, everyone, he names a film.
45:12
Everyone thinks I'm I'm the director that can just do this
45:15
film and it's like an action blockbuster.
45:18
And Terence put his hands on both shoulders and went ducky.
45:22
It's a fine thing to be a director of that field.
45:26
Like, Jesus Christ, you are talented, you know, And he
45:29
wanted to do sort of more deep and meaningful stuff.
45:32
But fuck me, can he put can he put Doctor Who on the screen?
45:35
The web of fear, this inferno terror from.
45:39
What we can see the Daleks master plan, Yeah.
45:43
Jesus, the crusade is gorgeous. Seats of Doom seats.
45:47
Of Doom. It's just I'm is it basically
45:51
unparalleled until his protege? Until, until Graham was going to
45:54
say Graham Harper, who learned his trade from Douglas Cat and
45:58
Canfield. So yeah.
46:00
And and sort of took all those tricks into the new series as
46:02
well. And that's wonderful.
46:03
Why there's a bit of Ducky Canfield in the new series?
46:05
There, there really is. Yeah, you see it.
46:07
Graham Harper episodes. But yeah, just just amazingly
46:11
good. This is a huge undertaking.
46:12
It's 8 episodes that nobody wants to do that.
46:16
I think Maloney looked at that 10 episode War Games and what a
46:20
delight, you know Jesus, but I don't think you get a sense that
46:25
he even sweated here. No, it doesn't feel.
46:27
There's no point where it feels tired or that he's run out of
46:30
ideas. And he can shoot the Cyberman.
46:33
That's so important because go and look at the lesser I.
46:38
Don't think the Cybermen ever look as good as that before or
46:43
after. I think I tend to agree.
46:47
I think there's some very sexy shots in two of the Cybermen and
46:51
in the moon base as well. I just love that designer
46:54
Cyberman though. Yeah, there are some sexy shots.
46:56
I don't. Yeah, I don't think this, I
47:00
don't think the overall impact is as great.
47:03
No, I tend to agree. My God.
47:06
Well, do you have any more or is is that your list I?
47:10
Think we've I think we've probably said everything that
47:13
we. What, 6 hours and 30 minutes if
47:17
we? Haven't said it by now then
47:18
there's no hope, is there? Remember, you wanted to embark
47:21
on this all right? When you've got no voice in the
47:23
morning, don't you come blaming me.
47:26
It's been, it's been pure pleasure.
47:28
I've I've really enjoyed revisiting this story.
47:32
I of course have one final question for you.
47:36
Yeah. Where are we going next?
47:41
Well, Tobias Vaughan's plan was obviously kind of dependent on
47:45
the fact that everyone in 1969 or wherever it sets it, had a
47:51
transistor radio which he could reach them through.
47:54
Just just imagine if like a mere decade or so earlier, everyone
47:58
had been buying something for their houses that had allowed
48:04
aliens access like a, you know, a television set.
48:07
And just imagine, that alien presence took the form of
48:10
Maureen Lipman. Oh my word.
48:15
OK, the idiot's. Lantern, the Idiot's Lantern, is
48:18
where we're going next. Explain yourselves.
48:22
Well, you you. You did.
48:24
List the ones you wanted done. Yes.
48:27
And I have watched The Idiot's Lantern fairly recently and I
48:32
think at the time I found it a rather throw away episode.
48:37
And do you know what I it really stood out.
48:39
I, I just thought it was a really, it has no delusions of
48:45
being anything groundbreaking or a momentous.
48:50
It's just a really solid slice of Doctor Who and I enjoyed
48:56
watching it immensely. So I I I look forward to
49:00
watching it with you and talking about why.
49:02
Until we head to the Rock'n'roll years once again.
49:07
Oh yeah, we have done a lot of 1950s, haven't we?
49:11
You're obsessed man. Yes to watch the Queen's
49:14
coronation. Thank you very much for your
49:18
time. I've never.
49:20
Been that more and but also thank you for your diary.
49:24
You're you're welcome. Well, there's more that more
49:26
where that came from. If anyone wants to fund the the
49:31
the Netflix series, you know where to find me.