Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Killer Dad Chris Watts makes 'friend' behind bars

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Killer Dad Chris Watts makes 'friend' behind bars · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: The name Chris Watts will live in infamy after the
0:10
Speaker 1: Little Girls. But believe it or not, has he had
0:13
Speaker 1: second thoughts behind bars? Apparently the inside of his jail
0:18
Speaker 1: cell is plastered with photos of his dead wife and
0:23
Speaker 1: two little girls, Bella and Celeste. And catch this, he
0:28
Speaker 1: has struck up an unusual friendship with another perp behind bars,
0:35
Speaker 1: the kidnapper Jake Patterson, who swiped Jamie Class and murdered
0:41
Speaker 1: both of her parents. Now, gee, what did these two have?
0:45
Speaker 1: Income crime stories with Nancy Grace. Now, in case you
0:58
Speaker 1: don't remember, take a listen to Killer Dad Chris Watts.
1:15
Speaker 1: It's kind of hard to hear, but you are hearing
1:18
Speaker 1: Killer Dad Chris Watts telling investigators that after he murdered
1:23
Speaker 1: his wife, he quote didn't know what happened, really, because
1:29
Speaker 1: then his daughter came in, his little bitty baby girl
1:32
Speaker 1: aged four, and says, what's wrong with mommy? And he
1:35
Speaker 1: tells her, quote mommy doesn't feel good. Then ends up
1:40
Speaker 1: killing both of his daughters, taking them to an oil
1:46
Speaker 1: production site where he works, and shoving them down huge
1:52
Speaker 1: crude oil receptacles actually about this bigure round about eleven
1:58
Speaker 1: inches wide. At the time, he had pushed their bodies down,
2:03
Speaker 1: tearing and crushing their shoulders to get them hidden, then
2:07
Speaker 1: burying his wife Shennan in a shallow grave. So this
2:12
Speaker 1: guy starting a friendship behind bars with another known mass killer,
2:19
Speaker 1: joining me an all star panel to try to figure
2:21
Speaker 1: it out, break it down, put it back together again
2:24
Speaker 1: with me right now. A psycho analyst from Beverly Hills,
2:28
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall. You can find her at doctor Bethany
2:31
Speaker 1: Marshall dot com, director of the Cold Case Research Institute,
2:34
Speaker 1: and I can verify A crime scene expert. Cheryl McCullum,
2:39
Speaker 1: death investigator, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, an author of
2:43
Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Joseph Scott Morgan special
2:49
Speaker 1: guests joining us, Sean Walsh joining us from Daily Mail,
2:56
Speaker 1: and John Glatt, author of The Perfect Father, The truth
3:00
Speaker 1: story of Chris Watts, his All American family and a
3:02
Speaker 1: shocking murderer. It will be available everywhere on Tuesday. Let
3:08
Speaker 1: me start with you, Sean Walsh, longtime colleague and friend,
3:12
Speaker 1: joining me from Daily Mail, which you know is one
3:16
Speaker 1: after Crime Online, one of the first things I read
3:19
Speaker 1: every single morning. Sean Walsh, you report that killer dad.
3:25
Speaker 1: Chris Watts has plastered his jail cell walls with photos
3:28
Speaker 1: of his murdered family and stuck up a friendship with
3:32
Speaker 1: Jamie Klaus's kidnapper. He left out the fact that he
3:34
Speaker 1: murdered both of her parents trying to get her Jake Patterson,
3:39
Speaker 1: after bonding over Bible studies behind bars. Hey, I'm all
3:44
Speaker 1: for the Bible, and I'm happy those two are, let's
3:48
Speaker 1: just say, finding a new life behind bars. But that's
3:52
Speaker 1: where they need to stay. So how do you know
3:54
Speaker 1: all this, Shaun Walsh, Daily Mail. Well, you know what,
3:56
Speaker 1: we were very lucky to get the first look at
3:59
Speaker 1: a brand new book called The Perfect Father. And in
4:02
Speaker 1: this new book they take us through what could be
4:05
Speaker 1: described as a hit, a remake of the hit television
4:08
Speaker 1: show The Odd Couple. But these are two of the
4:11
Speaker 1: most odd men anyone will ever encounter. Hold on right there,
4:14
Speaker 1: Sean Walsh, Odd. I don't know if I've a call
4:18
Speaker 1: to mass killer's odd because don't you think that's kind
4:23
Speaker 1: of I'm putting perfume on the pig little ephemistic Because
4:29
Speaker 1: to you, Cheryl McCollum, these are two of the most
4:32
Speaker 1: heinous crimes I've ever seen. Break it down, Cheryl, Oh,
4:36
Speaker 1: I think they've got a lot in common. I bet
4:38
Speaker 1: they were fast friends, Nancy. When I think about him
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Speaker 1: having the photographs plastered all over his jail, cell, I
4:46
Speaker 1: think of folks like your hand, vanderslut and In mar Guadiqui,
4:49
Speaker 1: Lushandre lev and Natalie Holloway specifically. Of course, that's what
4:54
Speaker 1: he's done. That's how he is displaying what made him famous.
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Speaker 1: It's the same as display in a trophy for him.
5:02
Speaker 1: You know what, Cheryl, Sometimes I worry about you because
5:06
Speaker 1: you know my vivid recollections. My first image of you
5:09
Speaker 1: is at a crime scene, really doing your thing. What
5:12
Speaker 1: was that about two o'clock in the morning, you say,
5:14
Speaker 1: when I pulled up and saw you there, Like yeah,
5:17
Speaker 1: And for you to talk about them so euphemistically, just
5:23
Speaker 1: like Sean Walsh did. Plus, you're scaring me in the
5:27
Speaker 1: fact that you get into their head. I mean, doctor
5:30
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall. To for Cheryl McCullin to refer to these
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Speaker 1: photos plastered on their walls of their dead victims as trophies.
5:40
Speaker 1: Maybe she's right, Bethany, I actually thought that was brilliant.
5:44
Speaker 1: I was blown away when she said that because I
5:47
Speaker 1: had a much deeper analysis of the situation. But I
5:52
Speaker 1: could be wrong. I was thinking that Chris Watts killer
5:56
Speaker 1: dad has something called alexisymia. Alexe to find me is
6:01
Speaker 1: when people use words and make gestures as if there
6:06
Speaker 1: is a deep emotional meaning, but actually they are completely
6:10
Speaker 1: incapable of bringing meaning to the words. The example I
6:15
Speaker 1: always use is the BTK killer when he was defending
6:19
Speaker 1: himself in court and he said, oh, I'm such a
6:22
Speaker 1: nice guy. You know when I killed that one girl,
6:26
Speaker 1: you know, before I strangled her, you know, I put
6:28
Speaker 1: her head on a pillow and I brought her a
6:30
Speaker 1: glass of water, and she was crying, and I comforted her.
6:35
Speaker 1: And the word comfort did not mean the same thing
6:39
Speaker 1: to him as it does to you and me. In fact,
6:40
Speaker 1: it had no meaning at all. So using words that
6:43
Speaker 1: appear deep in nature but actually have absolutely no meaning.
6:48
Speaker 1: So when Chris Watts plasters the pictures all over the
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Speaker 1: place and talks about writing letters to his little girls
6:54
Speaker 1: and how much he loves them, it means absolutely nothing.
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Speaker 1: But actually I think Cheryl's right, not me. I think
7:01
Speaker 1: his family made him famous and he's clinging to them
7:04
Speaker 1: as trophies or it could be both, Nancy. It's a
7:08
Speaker 1: complicated situation, you know. To you. Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics,
7:13
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,
7:17
Speaker 1: Just let's give everybody a little reality check, just a
7:20
Speaker 1: little shake him and wake him. What happened to the
7:25
Speaker 1: bodies of the two little girls, Bella and Celeste? And
7:28
Speaker 1: don't hold back, Joe Scott Morgan, tell the truth. Hey,
7:32
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, the first time you testified in front of
7:35
Speaker 1: a jury and you had to recount details like this,
7:39
Speaker 1: I remember the first time I had to curse in
7:41
Speaker 1: front of a jury. I mean every word, the P word,
7:43
Speaker 1: the C word, the F word, the every word. I
7:47
Speaker 1: could hardly say. I was reading from a definitive confession. Okay,
7:51
Speaker 1: what he said, Well, suddenly the next child got a
7:55
Speaker 1: lot easier. By the time I was done prosecuting, I
7:58
Speaker 1: was swearing like a sailor. I had to swear it off.
8:01
Speaker 1: Pardon the pun when I gave birth to the twins.
8:04
Speaker 1: But don't glaze over it is as much as you
8:08
Speaker 1: were used to describing this. Tell me the way he
8:13
Speaker 1: disposed of these two little girls, Nancy. He dumped these
8:17
Speaker 1: children and into these unrefined oil tanks. They contain unrefined
8:26
Speaker 1: oil or petroleum. And he put them in through and
8:30
Speaker 1: this is quite interesting of a term. He put them
8:34
Speaker 1: through a little door that's referred to as a thief hatch.
8:37
Speaker 1: You know, we could go on with metaphors all day long.
8:41
Speaker 1: But after he robbed them of their lives, he stuffed
8:44
Speaker 1: them down through this little opening. If you'd mentioned ten inches,
8:48
Speaker 1: I think it was actually twelve inches, I mean eight
8:52
Speaker 1: inches that he had to pass these bodies through. And
8:55
Speaker 1: as he was trying to pass them through that there
9:01
Speaker 1: was tufts of hair that were caught in the latch,
9:03
Speaker 1: as well as peeling back the top layer of skin.
9:09
Speaker 1: Bella actually on her buttock because she had a big
9:12
Speaker 1: scrape where where the skin had been kind of raked
9:16
Speaker 1: away as he forced the bodies through there. Of course,
9:18
Speaker 1: the toughest, toughest part of this is getting the shoulders
9:21
Speaker 1: through there. And then after he did this, he you know,
9:25
Speaker 1: these bodies they were both separated, they were in two
9:29
Speaker 1: separate containers. He dropped them in to these containers, which
9:33
Speaker 1: in fact contained raw petroleum. This is not refined oil.
9:38
Speaker 1: And so at this point you have substances that these bodies,
9:43
Speaker 1: these two little precious angels bodies were floating around in
9:47
Speaker 1: that contained chemicals like tallween. You know, talluween is actually
9:51
Speaker 1: a component that's found in T and T nancy. It's
9:54
Speaker 1: something that's used to strip paint with. It's highly, highly
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Speaker 1: caustic and at their bodies. You know, we think about
10:02
Speaker 1: decomposition in these in these circumstances like this, the process
10:08
Speaker 1: was not just decomposition. It was literally a chemical breakdown
10:12
Speaker 1: of the bodies. Uh. This animal knew what he was doing.
10:17
Speaker 1: He worked in this industry. He knew what the possibility was.
10:19
Speaker 1: And it wasn't just a matter of hiding their bodies.
10:23
Speaker 1: It was a matter of disintegrating them, you know, literally
10:28
Speaker 1: rendering them down in this environment. And at the end
10:33
Speaker 1: of the day, it's so toxic that the teams that
10:39
Speaker 1: went out to reclaim these bodies, you know, you have
10:42
Speaker 1: to drain these things in order to get in there.
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Speaker 1: They created and he created an ecological disaster with this
10:50
Speaker 1: and exposed all the crime scene investigators to this. This
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Speaker 1: guy is a monster. There is no doubt. In his
10:58
Speaker 1: jail fell According to Sean Walsh at Daily Mail, he's
11:02
Speaker 1: plastered these picture perfect photos of his dead wife and children,
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Speaker 1: and has struck up an unusual friendship with killer Patterson,
11:12
Speaker 1: who kidnapped a girl, Jamie Class. Crime Stories with Nancy
11:27
Speaker 1: Grace those of you just joining us, It really caught
11:32
Speaker 1: my eye when I found out that Chris Watts had
11:36
Speaker 1: befriended Jamie Claus's kidnapper. For those of you that recall,
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Speaker 1: Jamie Class, beautiful red headed little girl got off her
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Speaker 1: school bus and this perv had been stalking her, saw
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Speaker 1: her get off the school bus and says, quote, he
11:54
Speaker 1: had been thinking of kidnapping a girl for two years
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Speaker 1: and that if it quote wasn't Jamie, it would probably
12:01
Speaker 1: be someone else. Take a list into our friends at CBS. Jackie.
12:06
Speaker 1: Here's the news out of Wisconsin, and it's a shocker.
12:09
Speaker 1: A twenty one year old Wisconsin man has been charged
12:11
Speaker 1: and the kidnapping of thirteen year old Jamie Class and
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Speaker 1: the murder of her parents. This is sort of a
12:16
Speaker 1: miracle story. Investigators say they believe Jake Thomas Patterson killed
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Speaker 1: Jamie's parents because he wanted to abduct her. He was
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Speaker 1: identified by police just minutes after Jamie gave a detailed
12:29
Speaker 1: description and the good news is. Jamie is alive and
12:32
Speaker 1: according to police, she is well. A JOHNA. Diaz is
12:36
Speaker 1: following the story and baron Wisconsin. Nearly three months after
12:41
Speaker 1: she disappeared, Jamie Class has been found alive and safe.
12:48
Speaker 1: In cases like this, we often need a big break,
12:51
Speaker 1: and it was Jamie herself who gave us that break.
12:53
Speaker 1: At a news conference this morning, the Sheriff's Department gave
12:56
Speaker 1: an update on the case. Jamie was taken to a
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Speaker 1: local hospital up in the Blue Superior area, where she
13:02
Speaker 1: was looked over and examined, and she was held overnight
13:06
Speaker 1: for observation. Klaus had been missing since October fifteenth, after
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Speaker 1: police discovered someone had broken into her family's home in
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Speaker 1: barn and fatally shot her parents. For months, police and
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Speaker 1: volunteers searched for the thirteen year old. For those of
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Speaker 1: you just joining us, these two Patterson Klaus's kidnapper and
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Speaker 1: killer dad Chris Watts now have made friends behind bars,
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Speaker 1: do youse Sean Walsh Daily Mail. When I think of
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Speaker 1: these two fraternizing behind bars, I can only think of
13:38
Speaker 1: a scene from Shakespeare where witches are stirring a pot
13:43
Speaker 1: at night over a fire, cackling double double toil and trouble.
13:51
Speaker 1: These two, Satan and bill Zebub have made friends. I
13:56
Speaker 1: could just see them, you know, twitching their tails and
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Speaker 1: gnashing their teeth. Do you, ever, how does it weigh
14:02
Speaker 1: on you, Sean Watt, when you're constantly reporting on evildoers,
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Speaker 1: I mean real evildoers like the killer dad and the
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Speaker 1: class kidnapper. And you can't forget that class's parents of
14:17
Speaker 1: the worst. I mean, not only did he kidnap her,
14:19
Speaker 1: but he took her mother and father away from her forever.
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Speaker 1: I'd say, you say, birds of a feather flock together,
14:24
Speaker 1: and according to the perfect Father, what's met the double
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Speaker 1: murder of Patterson When they were placed together in neighboring
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Speaker 1: cells just after he arrived in the Wisconsin jail in
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Speaker 1: December of twenty eighteen. The pair of apparently becomes so
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Speaker 1: close that Watts will step in and calm Patterson when
14:41
Speaker 1: he's getting angry with other prisoners. Because there are a
14:44
Speaker 1: lot of nasty cat calls that get called out to
14:47
Speaker 1: them by the other prisoners. I can imagine they're not
14:50
Speaker 1: exactly two of the most popular guys inside the jail.
14:55
Speaker 1: You know, I forgot to mention that Shenan Watts was
14:57
Speaker 1: pregnant at the time her husband murdered her, and she
15:01
Speaker 1: suffered coffin birth after he murdered her. When her body
15:05
Speaker 1: was found in a shallow grave there at the oil fields,
15:09
Speaker 1: she had actually given birth when she was killed, and
15:13
Speaker 1: the baby Nicos I would call his name, was actually there,
15:18
Speaker 1: I think in her underwear a dead I mean, the
15:24
Speaker 1: scenario is awful. Guys, you're hearing Sean Walsh, who is
15:30
Speaker 1: a big honcho at Delhi Mail who has reported on this.
15:35
Speaker 1: He keeps referring to the perfect Father. The true story
15:39
Speaker 1: of Chris Watts, his All American family shocking murder, available
15:44
Speaker 1: Tuesday right now with me a very special guest. I'm
15:49
Speaker 1: glad John, you literally wrote the book that propels Shawn
15:55
Speaker 1: Walsh to send me this story about these two befriending
15:58
Speaker 1: each other. I can't wait. Just tell me everything. Start
16:03
Speaker 1: at the beginning, right well, I mean, I was doing
16:07
Speaker 1: the book and I happened to be in the spring Lake,
16:10
Speaker 1: North Carolina, and I wanted to interview Chris's parents, and
16:15
Speaker 1: I came over, and his mother, Cindy, happened to be
16:19
Speaker 1: mowing the lawn, and so I went over introduced myself.
16:24
Speaker 1: She said she couldn't talk to me. I gave her
16:27
Speaker 1: a business card and then I went to Chris's scorn.
16:30
Speaker 1: About an hour later, my phone went and it was Cindy,
16:34
Speaker 1: and she very much did want to talk because I
16:37
Speaker 1: don't think she really had anybody to talk to about this.
16:40
Speaker 1: And we developed a relationship over the next year where
16:44
Speaker 1: we talked a lot, and she would ask me what
16:47
Speaker 1: I thought about Chris, because she really was baffled by
16:51
Speaker 1: what had happened and at great odds to understand it.
16:55
Speaker 1: And she would really fill me in with what was
16:57
Speaker 1: going on with Chris, you know, with and he did
17:01
Speaker 1: the plea deal and everything like that. And she told
17:04
Speaker 1: me about his friendship and fat with Jack Jake Patterson
17:09
Speaker 1: that had developed. I should, in fact add that Jake
17:11
Speaker 1: Patterson was this chart. He's been moved to another jail
17:14
Speaker 1: about six months ago, so it was only a short
17:17
Speaker 1: period of time that they were close, but they became
17:20
Speaker 1: very good friends. And also their parents, did I think
17:24
Speaker 1: Ronnie Watts and with men of the perfect father, so
17:29
Speaker 1: you got to know kill her dad, Chris Watts's mother.
17:34
Speaker 1: What did you learn? I really liked her. She was
17:37
Speaker 1: a really really nice lady, completely helpless she had no
17:41
Speaker 1: idea that her son had why her son had done this,
17:45
Speaker 1: and she believed him because initially Chris had denied killing
17:49
Speaker 1: the two little girls and accused Shechanan of doing it
17:53
Speaker 1: and said he came in he murdered Shanan. After that
17:57
Speaker 1: she did the Toodle girls. Nobody else believed it, but
18:03
Speaker 1: obviously Chris Chris Watts's parents were loyal and they wanted
18:07
Speaker 1: to believe this, and it took a long time until
18:10
Speaker 1: he actually kind of admitted to doing this in the
18:13
Speaker 1: plea deal that they came round to believe that he
18:15
Speaker 1: actually had. And even though I think they have second thoughts.
18:19
Speaker 1: Really so, the parents to this day are not convinced
18:22
Speaker 1: their son Chris Watts murdered Shennan, Bella and Celeste Well.
18:26
Speaker 1: To be honest, some days his mother thinks she did
18:29
Speaker 1: he did, and other days he thinks he didn't. And
18:32
Speaker 1: Chris Watts has never told anyone exactly what happened. There's
18:35
Speaker 1: been so many different versions of it. He's told his
18:39
Speaker 1: mother various versions. And she said to me, and I
18:44
Speaker 1: finished the book saying it, that she has no idea
18:47
Speaker 1: whatever what really happened, and she doesn't think that anybody
18:52
Speaker 1: ever will because Chris told her that he would take
18:55
Speaker 1: this secret to his grave. Well, what are some of
18:57
Speaker 1: the versions Chris Watts told his mother, Well, of that
19:01
Speaker 1: that Shenan did it. In fact, you know that here
19:03
Speaker 1: he saw on the baby monitor that she was Chanan
19:07
Speaker 1: was strangling Celeste and then he came up and she
19:10
Speaker 1: was strangding Bella. So he just lost it and killed
19:16
Speaker 1: Nan and we all we all knew and nobody ever
19:19
Speaker 1: thought that really happened in fact, but obviously as parents,
19:23
Speaker 1: they wanted to believe that it did because I think
19:25
Speaker 1: they loved their granddaughters a lot, although they're not really
19:29
Speaker 1: given credit for that. They were very, very close to
19:31
Speaker 1: the granddaughters. And they lost a lot too. I mean,
19:34
Speaker 1: everybody in this story. It's so tragic. They lost everything
19:38
Speaker 1: really because of this guy, Chris Watts. You know crime
19:53
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about an
19:58
Speaker 1: unlikely duo, as Sean Walts referred to it as the
20:02
Speaker 1: odd couple. I hardly think Walter Matthau and Jack Lemon
20:08
Speaker 1: would appreciate that. Sean Walts, they're probably spinning in their
20:13
Speaker 1: graves right now. Thanks to you, guys, I want you
20:16
Speaker 1: to take a listen as the mother of Chris Watts
20:19
Speaker 1: still doesn't believe on some days for son could do
20:22
Speaker 1: such a thing. Listen to cut eleven. It is Chris
20:25
Speaker 1: Watts's confession. He's telling investigators after his wife's dead, excuse me,
20:30
Speaker 1: cut twelve. He's telling investigators that his daughter Cecy was
20:34
Speaker 1: the first Was she alive? Alive? When he shoved her
20:39
Speaker 1: in the oil tank? He says, No, I put the
20:42
Speaker 1: blanket over her head, and that's how she passed. Really,
20:46
Speaker 1: he put a blanket on her head and she just died.
20:49
Speaker 1: That's not how suffocation works. But listen to killer Dad,
20:54
Speaker 1: Chris Watson, his own words. So she alive? Where she
21:06
Speaker 1: was a rosing? Okay, you can cut there because I'm
21:11
Speaker 1: really having a hard time hearing it. You have to
21:13
Speaker 1: really listen, Bethanie. How could he revise the past, revise
21:19
Speaker 1: history in that manner where you just put a blanket
21:22
Speaker 1: over her head and then she's dead? Well, Nancy, you
21:24
Speaker 1: know when you talk to a sociopath, they always do
21:27
Speaker 1: this strange double talk. They talk about what they've done
21:32
Speaker 1: and then they undo it at the same time. Oh,
21:35
Speaker 1: I put a blanket over her head. She died so
21:38
Speaker 1: fast on the other it's like they didn't do it
21:41
Speaker 1: at all. I mean, we talked about a story with
21:45
Speaker 1: a sociopath many years ago who murdered a little girl
21:48
Speaker 1: outside a car wash, and I think he said something like, yeah,
21:52
Speaker 1: she came on to me and then I murdered her,
21:56
Speaker 1: so you know, and the little girl was twelve, if
21:59
Speaker 1: I've call correctly. So you have, on the one hand,
22:02
Speaker 1: the confession, on the other hand, the undoing. And I'm
22:06
Speaker 1: sure your listeners, every listener to this show has somebody
22:10
Speaker 1: in their life who does this weird kind of double talk.
22:15
Speaker 1: We call it in my field, doing and undoing. They
22:17
Speaker 1: do and they undo, they do and they undo. They
22:20
Speaker 1: talk about it because it's the glory days. I mean,
22:23
Speaker 1: these are Chris Watt's glory days. And this is why
22:27
Speaker 1: he has formed a friendship with Jake Patterson behind bars,
22:31
Speaker 1: even though Boo who they've been separated, is that they
22:34
Speaker 1: can fluff each other up. They can talk about each
22:36
Speaker 1: other's crimes. There is what we call a co narcissism
22:41
Speaker 1: where they both think that the other person is at
22:43
Speaker 1: the center of the universe and they're kind of I
22:47
Speaker 1: would think that if you were to listen in to
22:49
Speaker 1: their conversations, there would be a self congratulatory quality. Maybe
22:56
Speaker 1: they're reading the Bible, maybe they're singing praises to odd
23:00
Speaker 1: Maybe they're thinking they're going to become ministers and evangelize
23:05
Speaker 1: the world. These are common things that sociip has to
23:08
Speaker 1: do behind bars. And so you know, we're talking about
23:13
Speaker 1: the odd couple. I wouldn't think of it that way.
23:16
Speaker 1: I would think of it as you know, the perfect
23:19
Speaker 1: husband and the perfect pair. They love each other. They
23:23
Speaker 1: both did the same thing, and they're both rationalizing it together.
23:27
Speaker 1: And one more quick thing, Nancy, don't underestimate the power
23:33
Speaker 1: of a perversion to draw people together. They have a
23:37
Speaker 1: perverse way of looking at the world. Everything's upside down,
23:41
Speaker 1: and they share that in common. So all of their
23:43
Speaker 1: conversations are going to be organized around this perverse view
23:48
Speaker 1: of the world in some way. You know, Sean, could
23:51
Speaker 1: I just say one thing? Yes, please? Do you jump
23:54
Speaker 1: in with me? John Glack? Go ahead? Well, in fact way,
23:57
Speaker 1: when he smothered Sella, she was the only one that
24:00
Speaker 1: fought back, and she fought back pretty violently, and when
24:03
Speaker 1: they examined her body, she bit her tongue multiple times
24:07
Speaker 1: before he actually killed her. So She really fought. She
24:12
Speaker 1: fought to live, you know, against her father, So there
24:14
Speaker 1: wasn't just a question of putting the blanket over her head.
24:17
Speaker 1: She really fought back, and that was one of the
24:20
Speaker 1: things that I thought was so affecting. You know. I
24:23
Speaker 1: don't think Celesque felt fought back, And for some reason
24:26
Speaker 1: Shenan didn't seem to fight back because there were no
24:30
Speaker 1: bruises or marks on her body, but little Bella did. Guys,
24:34
Speaker 1: we were talking about the very unlikely friendship conjured up
24:39
Speaker 1: between Jamie Class's kidnap or remember the thirteen year old
24:43
Speaker 1: girl who was followed off of her school bus. Both
24:48
Speaker 1: of her parents were murdered that night. Jamie Class is
24:53
Speaker 1: asleep in her bed and they all hear something. The
24:56
Speaker 1: dad goes to the door. He shot dad immediately. The
25:00
Speaker 1: mom runs in and gets Jamie and they barricade themselves
25:04
Speaker 1: in the bathroom. But her killer, Patterson, shows no mercy.
25:10
Speaker 1: He shoots open the bathroom door. He gets in there,
25:14
Speaker 1: he shoots down Jamie Class's mom and then kidnaps Jamie Class.
25:21
Speaker 1: He had a sexual obsession with this little girl. You know.
25:25
Speaker 1: Sean Walsh Daily Mail who first alerted to me to
25:30
Speaker 1: this unlikely friendship of these two behind bars. You know,
25:35
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking. You know, you have your two beautiful
25:38
Speaker 1: little boys. Their whole world is you and your gorgeous wife.
25:45
Speaker 1: That's the world, and the video game Fortnite and Fortnite.
25:50
Speaker 1: I mean, can you imagine a child and you know,
25:54
Speaker 1: Jamie was about the age of my twins when this happens.
25:59
Speaker 1: I mean, all day and all night, Mom, Mom, Mom,
26:05
Speaker 1: I mean, and nothing makes me happier then to help
26:10
Speaker 1: them or hear them call out for me. This girl
26:14
Speaker 1: was kidnapped by a sexual pervert, held hostage in a
26:19
Speaker 1: remote cabin, and witnessed her parents dead bodies. That's who
26:26
Speaker 1: we're talking about, Patterson's That's it's unbelievable. I mean, when
26:31
Speaker 1: you're given it's an honor to be a parent, and
26:34
Speaker 1: all you can think of about is how you can
26:36
Speaker 1: protect your children and make sure that they live the
26:38
Speaker 1: best life that they could possibly live. And that's what
26:40
Speaker 1: you work for, that's what you put time in with
26:43
Speaker 1: them for. And to think that anybody is capable of this,
26:46
Speaker 1: it's just it truly bends the mind, and it's out
26:49
Speaker 1: of the ordinary, and it's not something that you can
26:51
Speaker 1: ever imagine, but sadly there are people like these two
26:54
Speaker 1: who commit crimes like this, and how unfortunate for all
26:58
Speaker 1: of us that they found each other well behind Buzz
27:01
Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends at Inside Edition, Cold, dirty,
27:05
Speaker 1: but determined to survive. Thirteen year old Jamie Class is
27:10
Speaker 1: being hailed today for her incredible bravery in escaping her abductor.
27:14
Speaker 1: This is the country road where Jamie ran up to
27:17
Speaker 1: a woman who was walking her dog and told her,
27:19
Speaker 1: I am Jamie Claus and I need help. She was
27:22
Speaker 1: asking me for help, saying she was lost, she didn't
27:25
Speaker 1: know where she was. Jeanie Nutter was walking her dog, Henry.
27:29
Speaker 1: She says she immediately recognized the teenager who has been
27:32
Speaker 1: the subject of a nationwide search. I knew she needed help,
27:35
Speaker 1: and I knew I needed to get her to a
27:37
Speaker 1: safe place, and that's just what I did. She took
27:39
Speaker 1: Jamie to the home of neighbors Kristen and Peter Kasinskis.
27:42
Speaker 1: The door opens and Jeanie says, this is Jamie Class
27:46
Speaker 1: and call nine one one. They say Jamie looked skinny,
27:49
Speaker 1: her hair was mad at and she was wearing shoes
27:51
Speaker 1: too large for her. She looked weak, tired. You know,
27:55
Speaker 1: looked like she lost probably fifteen to twenty pounds from
27:57
Speaker 1: like the original photos that we had seen. She doesn't
28:00
Speaker 1: look like she was able to take a bath or
28:02
Speaker 1: wash her hair, clothes, or any of things like that.
28:15
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, guys with me. The author
28:19
Speaker 1: of The Perfect Father, The True Story of Chris Watts
28:22
Speaker 1: is all American Family and a Shocking Murderer comes out
28:25
Speaker 1: on Tuesday. It's John Glatt. You know, John, I can't
28:30
Speaker 1: wait to get your book. I assume you're going to
28:32
Speaker 1: have it on Amazon. Is that correct? Yes, Yes, it's
28:35
Speaker 1: on Amazon and everywhere you can buy books at the moment. Oh,
28:38
Speaker 1: it's already out. Okay, great, I thought it was coming
28:40
Speaker 1: out on Tuesday. Yeah, but you can pre order it already. Okay,
28:44
Speaker 1: you know what I'm doing it right now. I'm pre
28:47
Speaker 1: ordering it right now. The Perfect Father because even though
28:51
Speaker 1: at trial the state doesn't have to prove motive, I'm
28:54
Speaker 1: still overwhelmed with curiosity about it motivates killers like Watts
29:00
Speaker 1: and Patterson. Now, in your book, you state that Chris Watts,
29:05
Speaker 1: the killer Dad, still writes letters to his murdered daughters
29:09
Speaker 1: Bella and Celeste. Sends them to his parents for them
29:13
Speaker 1: to read over their graves. Is that right, that's right. Yeah,
29:17
Speaker 1: he does it every day. They talk to him every night,
29:20
Speaker 1: you know, by phone, and he dictates these letters to
29:25
Speaker 1: his children, and then the parents dutifully go out go
29:29
Speaker 1: over to the grave site and they read it as
29:32
Speaker 1: the very solemn. I mean, what's particularly sad that you
29:35
Speaker 1: would pick today? July seventeenth is actually celests fifth birthday today,
29:42
Speaker 1: And in fact, I finished my book with exactly a
29:45
Speaker 1: year ago. On her fourth birthday, Chris wrote her a letter,
29:51
Speaker 1: you know, saying calling himself her safe haven, and you know,
29:56
Speaker 1: recreating a night they would have when he would tucker
29:59
Speaker 1: into be and read her her favorite children's story and things.
30:04
Speaker 1: And it's almost like he's talking to her. He pulls
30:07
Speaker 1: her Daddy's girl because she's stuck to him like glue,
30:11
Speaker 1: and he goes like every picture he has it in
30:14
Speaker 1: his in his cell, I guess you're in my arms
30:18
Speaker 1: or on my lap or holding my hand. I mean,
30:21
Speaker 1: it's just it's just unbelievable, you know, his reality at
30:26
Speaker 1: the moment. And he also, you know, as was said before,
30:30
Speaker 1: he's totally got into the Bible. That's all he does
30:33
Speaker 1: now is he leads the Bible and he preaches to
30:36
Speaker 1: the other inmates, and he sends his parents kind of
30:40
Speaker 1: Bible passages every day too. You know, things he's wants
30:44
Speaker 1: to he wants them to see. And you know, of
30:46
Speaker 1: course he's found God like many other people do behind bars.
30:50
Speaker 1: But maybe this is his coping mechanism with you know,
30:53
Speaker 1: what's the terrible things he has to live with? You know,
30:57
Speaker 1: just thinking about this with me now, Sean McCall andre,
31:00
Speaker 1: Coldcase Research Institute, Cheryl. You and I've dealt with so
31:04
Speaker 1: many violent felons who when they start telling their story,
31:10
Speaker 1: they gloss over, like Chris Watt says, I put the
31:13
Speaker 1: blanket on her head and she passed. In other words,
31:17
Speaker 1: I strangled her dead. That's what he's trying to say,
31:20
Speaker 1: a four year old little girl, Bella and Celestian addition
31:23
Speaker 1: to Shenan Watts, but also Cheryl, as you recall, he
31:29
Speaker 1: had a double life. Now he is sending letters to
31:33
Speaker 1: his dead daughters for his parents to read over their graves.
31:39
Speaker 1: But in life, he couldn't wait to track down the
31:43
Speaker 1: next woman to meet up with in a motel co
31:49
Speaker 1: workers people on I think it was tender anybody to
31:53
Speaker 1: have sex with. In fact, he had a longer time
31:58
Speaker 1: mistress and he had told her he was leaving his wife.
32:01
Speaker 1: He had to get rid of his wife so he
32:02
Speaker 1: could be with her, even having her over for lunch
32:06
Speaker 1: in the family home, having sex in the home. He
32:10
Speaker 1: didn't give a flying fig about those daughters. I mean, Cheryl,
32:13
Speaker 1: everybody at some point has an argument with your husband.
32:16
Speaker 1: You think, wow, my life is so great before I'm adam,
32:19
Speaker 1: which of course is probably not true. I mean speaking,
32:22
Speaker 1: I'm projecting, I do that, Okay, my life is And
32:26
Speaker 1: Sean Walsh, you guys have all been with me during
32:29
Speaker 1: the whole courtship and the marriage decision and the twins,
32:33
Speaker 1: and it's been the best thing that ever happened to me.
32:35
Speaker 1: But in the heat of a moment, you may think
32:38
Speaker 1: of leaving, But leaving your spouse also means leaving your
32:43
Speaker 1: children and the world as they know it. So when
32:46
Speaker 1: you cheat on your spouse, you're you're cheating on your
32:49
Speaker 1: children too. And he's writing all these letters now, Cheryl maccombell.
32:53
Speaker 1: In life, he didn't give a flying fig about them.
32:56
Speaker 1: He don't care about them this minute. He is a
33:00
Speaker 1: con artist and he's a very dangerous combination of con
33:05
Speaker 1: artists and pervert. So what he's doing is manipulating his
33:11
Speaker 1: mama right this minute with those letters. It's not about them.
33:16
Speaker 1: It's just it's not about the Bible. He ain't preaching
33:19
Speaker 1: a nobody. I'm gonna tell you what he's doing. When
33:21
Speaker 1: you're in prison, you get extra time out of your
33:24
Speaker 1: cell and extra benefits to practice your religion. That's all
33:29
Speaker 1: he's doing. It's a con. You know. You know what, Cheryl,
33:33
Speaker 1: I can't believe. I forgot about that. You do when
33:37
Speaker 1: you go to any kind of AA or absolutely any
33:42
Speaker 1: any religious activity you get out of your jail cell.
33:48
Speaker 1: And you know what's interesting to hey, John glad author
33:52
Speaker 1: of The Perfect Father. You didn't fall for Chris wass Bs,
33:56
Speaker 1: did you? You didn't actually actually believe everything you seen
34:00
Speaker 1: his poor mom? Please tell me absolutely not. I no,
34:04
Speaker 1: But I empathize with his mother, you know, so I
34:07
Speaker 1: just tried to see her from her point of view.
34:09
Speaker 1: But no, I mean, I think what he did reprehensible
34:13
Speaker 1: and disgusting, and there's nothing good I could say about that.
34:17
Speaker 1: The only thing I would say, and I brought it
34:19
Speaker 1: out in the book, and I told his mother. I
34:21
Speaker 1: would is that he never had any kind of psychiatric
34:25
Speaker 1: evaluation after his arrest of any manner. And I would
34:30
Speaker 1: have thought from the books I've done, you know, the
34:33
Speaker 1: case just speaks out for a psychologist to examine him
34:37
Speaker 1: and to see why he might have done it, what
34:39
Speaker 1: he might be suffering from, so this doesn't repeat itself
34:42
Speaker 1: with someone else seen his Psychiogo. John, you know, I
34:48
Speaker 1: really respect you for all your research in your awesome book.
34:51
Speaker 1: I can't wait to get my mets on it. But
34:54
Speaker 1: I think I know what he was suffering from. And
34:56
Speaker 1: it's um I really can't say it on air, but
34:59
Speaker 1: it's low the belt because this guy knew enough. I mean,
35:04
Speaker 1: for Pete's sake, join in, Sean Walsh, when did you
35:09
Speaker 1: suddenly go mute? Never in life? I mean, this guy
35:12
Speaker 1: led a double life. He cheated like nobody's business. He
35:16
Speaker 1: planned the murders and then he planned the cover up.
35:20
Speaker 1: Then he continued to lie. Remember his public plea to
35:22
Speaker 1: bring Shenana. What a crock of you know what I mean?
35:27
Speaker 1: He was in his right mind, and John Glatt is right.
35:31
Speaker 1: He may be a sociopath, but that is by far
35:35
Speaker 1: Insanit from insanity Oh, I agree, Nancy. But if you
35:38
Speaker 1: look at it, I always threw Chris Watts, and I
35:40
Speaker 1: think if the Seven Deadly Sins took on human form,
35:43
Speaker 1: they would be Chris Watts, that's right, and doctor Bethany Marshall.
35:47
Speaker 1: Don't you know these two are behind bars talking about
35:51
Speaker 1: Oh they made me confess. Oh I get hate mail.
35:55
Speaker 1: Oh boo hoo. Who it's a boo hoo pity party.
35:58
Speaker 1: I don't care in them. I wonder how many girlfriends
36:01
Speaker 1: they have with this. Oh you just had to was
36:03
Speaker 1: everything about sex with you? You know what you need?
36:07
Speaker 1: You need to have your old twins, that'll get your
36:09
Speaker 1: mind off. Okay, yeah, what if go ahead and a
36:17
Speaker 1: psyche vow I can say if they had a psyche vowel,
36:20
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be that complicated. I mean, it's sociopathy they
36:25
Speaker 1: I mean I would think that for Jake Patterson it's
36:28
Speaker 1: a little different, and that he had a fixed perversion
36:31
Speaker 1: towards Jamie Clapps. He was obsessed with her. He wanted
36:35
Speaker 1: to get the parents out of the way. But how
36:37
Speaker 1: is that much different from Chris Watts being obsessed with
36:41
Speaker 1: a mistress and wanting to get his wife and children
36:44
Speaker 1: out of the way. I mean, when you think about it,
36:46
Speaker 1: the offending pattern, the m O has an eerily similar pattern,
36:52
Speaker 1: and that both of them had some benefit that they
36:57
Speaker 1: hoped to gain, which was both sexual romantic in some twisted,
37:02
Speaker 1: perverted way. They both wanted an idealized life. They just
37:06
Speaker 1: wanted what they wanted. They were obsessed with their own goals,
37:10
Speaker 1: and they would just wipe out human life in order
37:13
Speaker 1: to move on to the next step. And that is
37:15
Speaker 1: what an evaluator would find, and they would find all
37:19
Speaker 1: kinds of other rewards. Breaking to Chris Watts, breaking to
37:23
Speaker 1: his mother being a con artist, I love that Cheryl
37:26
Speaker 1: said that. I think that's so apt. Manipulating other people,
37:32
Speaker 1: even from behind bars, glorifying their lives, all kinds of
37:36
Speaker 1: things that they have in common. I can see why
37:38
Speaker 1: they they developed as a romance together. You know, I
37:42
Speaker 1: want to go out with Joseph Scott Morgan because in
37:46
Speaker 1: case we get too far into Chris Watts's redemption, could
37:52
Speaker 1: you please just very quickly describe coughin birth, which Shenan
37:57
Speaker 1: Watts yea, yes, Shenan after her body had begun to decompose,
38:04
Speaker 1: after he buried it into shallow grave, out there in
38:07
Speaker 1: the scorching heat, her body is breaking down that precious
38:11
Speaker 1: life that she carried, Nico. The systems are the tissue
38:17
Speaker 1: itself against a breakdown and loosen up. And not to
38:21
Speaker 1: be too overly graphic, but at this point in time,
38:25
Speaker 1: the muscles that normally contain or retain a baby in
38:31
Speaker 1: place loosen through decomposition, and she literally delivers into this
38:36
Speaker 1: filthy hole which he dug and left her body. And Nancy.
38:41
Speaker 1: One final thing that I have to say, because I
38:44
Speaker 1: covered his hearing, his final hearing live on the air,
38:49
Speaker 1: and the thing that I was so very disappointed in
38:52
Speaker 1: from a prosecutorial standpoint about Chris Watts was the following.
38:57
Speaker 1: It's the fact that even with Dennis rad BTK, he
39:01
Speaker 1: was compelled to alocute in open court. Instead, Chris Watts,
39:06
Speaker 1: the coward that he is, sat there whimpering like a
39:11
Speaker 1: like a like a little animal that's been wounded before
39:15
Speaker 1: everybody and his mom's crying and everybody else is carrying
39:19
Speaker 1: on in the court. But he was never compelled to
39:23
Speaker 1: say what he had did or what he had done
39:26
Speaker 1: forgive me. Instead, he's kind of shuffled out of there
39:30
Speaker 1: and sent off to live this life. He has a
39:32
Speaker 1: life to live up in that jail. These children don't,
39:36
Speaker 1: his wife doesn't. But you know, he's left up there
39:40
Speaker 1: to make friends. But he's never confessed one time in
39:45
Speaker 1: public where everybody can actually hear him to say specifically
39:49
Speaker 1: what he did that night. Instead, he kind of leaves
39:53
Speaker 1: it wide open. As doctor Bethany had talked about, he'll
39:56
Speaker 1: change his story at a moment's notice. And it's sicken
40:00
Speaker 1: me to my back teeth. True or wars never spoken?
40:04
Speaker 1: These two? Yes? Please One thing. He's never expressed any
40:09
Speaker 1: remorse for what he's done. His mother told me, and
40:13
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the things that hurts. He
40:15
Speaker 1: has never said he was sorry for what he did.
40:19
Speaker 1: You know, John glad. I'm so glad you told me that,
40:23
Speaker 1: because I hate to judge so harshly, But the reality
40:32
Speaker 1: is it's the truth. I may not like it, but
40:35
Speaker 1: it's the truth. Nancy Grace Crime Story, signing off, goodbye friend,