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"Humility In Parenting" with Kari Kampakis · The Weight

• 0:01
  Kari Kampakis: I'm Eddie Rester.
• 0:02
  Chris McAlilly: I'm Chris McAlilly. Welcome to The Weight.
• 0:05
  Eddie Rester: We're so glad that you've joined us today. We have a great guest, particularly if you're a parent, if you're struggling to figure out how do I raise kids? How do I raise my kids into adults? Today's episode is for you. We have Kari Kampakis with us today. She's an author, speaker, podcaster, columnist. She's from Birmingham, Alabama. She's written books about parenting,"How to Raise Teen Girls." Most recently she's written a book called "More Than a Mom," which helps moms and parents think about their role in being healthy and claiming health. We had a great conversation today.
• 0:42
  Eddie Rester: Chris, what stood out to you?
• 0:44
  Chris McAlilly: I think parenting is one of those areas of my life that I don't ever feel like I have my arms around.
• 0:50
  Chris McAlilly: I feel like I'm always up against a challenge that I don't, I just don't know how to navigate. And so I think, you know, Kari has both done her homework, but she also has the wisdom of actually doing it.
• 1:02
  Chris McAlilly: And, you know, she's very encouraging. There's a confidence that she instills.
• 1:09
  Chris McAlilly: It's like, yes, you're going to make mistakes. But no, you're not. It's not an impossible task. And, you know, she has some really helpful frameworks and ways of thinking and habits, spiritual habits, that have helped her navigate her own journey and that she will offer in the episode today. What about
• 1:29
  Eddie Rester: I think for me, we open up talking about humility you?
• 1:33
  Eddie Rester: and pride in parenting. And I think whatever stage your kids are in, whatever stage you're in as a parent--Chris is in the throes of it. I'm an empty nester. But I think, realizing you're just not going to have the answers. You're going to mess it up, and you're gonna do some things right that you don't even know are right. Having that humility is so critical. To be able to just love your kids openly, honestly, and get through it. I think for me.
• 2:01
  Chris McAlilly: One other thread in the conversation is vision.
• 2:04
  Chris McAlilly: She talks about the comparison game of social media, but then she talks a lot about putting yourself in a place to think through and to meditate upon and pray about God's vision for your children, and the ways in which that may or may not be in sync with your vision for their lives. So we think about that a great deal. And I found that very helpful. Then the other one that I'm going to take away at the end is just not becoming a person that doesn't have joy and passion as a parent. You know, it's having your own life that's not just wrapped up in the life of your kids, was a good reminder. And it was a great episode. I hope you guys enjoy it. Any last words, Eddie, before we turn it over?
• 2:50
  Eddie Rester: No, I think I think folks gonna enjoy this one. Share this one. If you've got a parent friend, single parent, married parent, husband, wife, dad, mom, share it with them, just as encouragement for them, I think would be the word that I would say. Share it.
• 3:03
  Eddie Rester: Encourage others to listen to it as well.
• 3:08
  Chris McAlilly: Yeah, and you can like it on social media. And if you leave a review, wherever it is that you listen to podcasts that helps people find the podcast. So we would love for you to do that as well, if you are so inclined. Thanks for being with us on The Weight.
• 3:21
  Chris McAlilly: [INTRO] Life can be heavy. So heavy, in fact that the weight we carry can sometimes cause us to lose hope.
• 3:29
  Eddie Rester: But we've all come across those people in life who seem to be experiencing the same world we live in, except they maintain a great depth of joy and hope.
• 3:37
  Chris McAlilly: A former generation called this"gravitas." It was their description of a soul that had gained enough weightiness to be attractive, like all things with a gravitational pull.
• 3:49
  Eddie Rester: Those are the people we want to talk to on this podcast. We talked to pastors, entrepreneurs, artists, mental health experts, and many others.
• 3:59
  Chris McAlilly: We will create space for heavy topics, but we'll be listening for a quality of soul that could be called gravitas.
• 4:06
  Eddie Rester: Welcome to The Weight. [END INTRO]
• 4:08
  Chris McAlilly: We're here today with Kari Kampakis. Kari, thanks so much for taking the time to be with us on the podcast.
• 4:15
  Kari Kampakis: Thanks for having me. I'm glad to be here.
• 4:17
  Chris McAlilly: We're looking always, at least I am, always looking for parenting advice.
• 4:21
  Chris McAlilly: One of the things I feel confident in is the work that I do at the church. Less so at home. Eddie is always trying to give me good advice because he's a little bit farther along the journey. But I don't take Eddie's advice on anything.
• 4:37
  Eddie Rester: That's probably good. Never take my advice.
• 4:39
  Chris McAlilly: And so I'm looking for other options. So we're so glad you're here.
• 4:44
  Eddie Rester: Kari, tell us a little bit about yourself. Give us, for folks who aren't familiar with you and your writings, just give us a little bit of your history and how you became passionate particularly about young women and parenting young women.
• 4:58
  Kari Kampakis: giveaway. Married to Harry. We will celebrate our 25th anniversary this June. W"e have four daughters. So living in the South, we hear that, Oh, bless your heart" a lot. But we love it. I would not have it any other way. Our girls, our youngest daughter just became a teenager. She just turned 13.
• 5:20
  Kari Kampakis: And then my other daughters are 16, 17, and 20. So we have three that are still in middle school or high school, and then our oldest daughter's in college at Auburn.
• 5:28
  Kari Kampakis: And so you know, really, I guess I love to write. I always love to write when I was younger. And long story short, I had the opportunity to write a book back in 2013. I had written a blog post, I was starting to blog and had a website. And I had written a blog post for young girls. And it went viral. And it caught the attention of Thomas Nelson. And I found out later that it had been 10 years since they had a book for teen girls. And they were looking for that material.
• 5:49
  Kari Kampakis: So it was such a God thing. I had been writing for seven years at that time, getting so much rejection. I'd written three fiction novels that didn't do anything. So this was just God opening a door in my life to be a published author, but in a different form than I'd expected. Because I was writing for moms before that.
• 6:06
  Kari Kampakis: So really, my girls were young, that just opened up the opportunity to start speaking into the lives of young girls. I wrote two books for them. And that really just, you know, developed a passion in me to not only help my daughters, but also their generation. And that really, I don't want to say I didn't want to write for moms.
• 6:20
  Kari Kampakis: But that was not part of my heart to be writing for that audience. But what happened is my daughters grew older. And I started struggling with raising teenagers. I started to develop a heart for the moms of teenagers. And God really worked on me for a couple of years. I didn't write anything, I just did some speaking events. And I read a lot of books. And that led to my next book, which was
• 6:40
  called "Love Her Well: 10 Ways to Find Joy and Connection with So all the while I do a lot of events for mothers and Your Teenage Daughter." daughters. And I really have a heart for both ends. And I've written the two books for the teen Girls, the two books for the moms. And I just feel like, I just know that God wants us to parent with strength to not defeat, but there are so many things trying to undermine our confidence as parents and our wisdom as parents. And so I'm just really passionate about helping other parents in the way that I hope that people would help me.
• 7:08
  Chris McAlilly: I want to get to, I want to ask a question about the parenting side, but I'm fascinated, you wrote for seven years, blogging kind of consistently, kind of toiling away at that. That's amazing.
• 7:18
  Chris McAlilly: Just staying with it in that way. What did you learn through that season of your life?
• 7:27
  Kari Kampakis: Perseverance. And the funny thing about that is that actually, when I wrote that book for teen girls, that story actually went into my perseverance chapter, which is such an example of how God wastes nothing in our life, that you know... And I share that story. I love sharing that story, because, you know, one thing I learned was that God would not give me that passion without a reason. And I think anything you do that's creative, whether it's music, or writing or theater, it's a lot of rejection. And I look back and I realized that maybe I needed that, especially now that I write for the internet. I'm very sensitive. And so I needed that toughening up.
• 7:58
  Kari Kampakis: And I do look back, too, and I realize, I'm glad that my first material wasn't published. Like, you don't want your early work out there. So it really gave me time to really grow as a writer, and for God to work in my life.
• 8:07
  Kari Kampakis: Because during that seven years, even what I wanted to write about changed. You know, there was one year, it was the year turn 40. And I mean, we had a tree fall in the house. I had two big scares with my children.
• 8:18
  Kari Kampakis: I mean, one I had to use an epi pen for an allergic reaction, just things that brought me to my knees. And it really changed my heart of what I wanted to write for and really pointed me more toward the Christian market. And so I realize now that God was working on me, and I wasn't ready to write publicly yet, but it was hard waiting. It was it was a long wait.
• 8:38
  Kari Kampakis: And, again, the other thing, too, that was so interesting, when I started at the beginning of the seven years, the way that you got published back then, was that you needed an agent, and you had a publisher in New York, and you had a query and sent letters. But the way that the door opened for me was through social media, which developed during that time. And I had, like I said, that blog post that went viral. So that's what I tell people, especially young people, if God's putting a dream in your heart or certain passions, just pursue those, because you don't know what door he might open or what road he might create that might not even exist right now.
• 9:10
  Chris McAlilly: That's awesome.
• 9:10
  Chris McAlilly: Thank you for sharing.
• 9:10
  Eddie Rester: I'm so thankful that you talk about your early works. You're glad those didn't get put out there in publishing.
• 9:17
  Eddie Rester: Very thankful my early sermons don't exist anywhere anymore.
• 9:21
  Eddie Rester: Same thing.
• 9:22
  Chris McAlilly: Everybody is excited about that, Eddie.
• 9:23
  Eddie Rester: Everybody's excited about that.
• 9:26
  Chris McAlilly: I burned mine.
• 9:26
  Chris McAlilly: Just be done with that. Nobody needs... Those never need to see the light of the day.
• 9:31
  Eddie Rester: Nobody needs to see those. Kari, you were talking a minute ago, you talked about you know, God doesn't want us to parent from an attitude of defeat. You mentioned, and I can't remember the exact word you used, that there are a lot of things that just undercut our confidence. What are some of those things that you think that for parents undercut our confidence to parent well? And then I want to talk about adolescence as well.
• 9:57
  Chris McAlilly: I can say persistent screaming, that's one that undercuts my confidence.
• 10:01
  Chris McAlilly: Oh, you asked that to Kari, not me. Sorry about that.
• 10:06
  Eddie Rester: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:07
  Kari Kampakis: Yes, I mean, parenting, it can bring out the best of us and the worst of us.
• 10:11
  Eddie Rester: The worst, yeah.
• 10:11
  Kari Kampakis: And I mean, I've personally found that I didn't realize how prideful I was until I became a parent, because it's so essential to have humility.
• 10:17
  Kari Kampakis: And whether we do have humility really determines how we're going to react to a situation.
• 10:23
  Kari Kampakis: So you know, especially in the Christian world, I think if we're--I wrote about this this morning--that if we think that parenting is all about a formula. You know, we follow
• 10:32
  this formula: we take the kids to church, and we surround them with godly influences, and then we make them memorize Bible verses. As parents, we can get a false sense of security that we're doing a great job in our child's journey. Well, they're going to thrive and do well in life.
• 10:44
  this formula: But you know, the older my kids get, and the more that I meet parents with older kids, I'm finding out that one of the hardest seasons of parenting that people are struggling with is their kids when they're going to college or as young adults, because all of a sudden, they're making their own choices, and they don't always reflect the values that they were taught at home. And so as parents, I think, if we are parenting from a place of pride, our instinct is to be like, "What did I do wrong?" You know, "Why is this formula not working?" And I have just learned in my own life, when I get in that train of thought, when I make their problems or their decisions about me, then I'm not able to help my child. I'm not able to love them like God wants me to love them. And so it really takes a lot of humility to be like, you know, we do the best we can as parents, and we're planting those seeds. But we're also praying and trusting that God is working in their life and their heart and a much bigger way. And you know, really just knowing that today is a moment in time, and maybe if your child's not in a great place, that doesn't mean they're doomed. Like, history and the Bible is full of people who--and I meet a lot of people ministry, I'm sure you do, too--who, they were the wild child. They were the ones that were on drugs as a teenager, and nobody would have seen that potential in them. But yet God did some really great redemptive work through them through Christ.
• 11:51
  this formula: And so it's really easy to lose sight of that as a parent, because we're so focused on today. And I think sometimes we're taking too much blame and too much credit for what our kids are doing. And we're just forgetting that, like us, they get free will. They are simple human beings like we are, and we've got to parent with that spirit of humility.
• 12:07
  Chris McAlilly: I think that's so helpful. There's nothing that undercuts pride like parenting, you know, especially in public.
• 12:16
  Chris McAlilly: I mean, for me, this comes down to the El Agave Mexican restaurant. And it's like you see other people, and you have an idea of how the evening is going to go, then you end up in a public place--and especially as a pastor, people will sometimes come, and I'm a preacher's kid, too. So some people will sometimes come with certain projections or expectations of what the preacher's kid is going to say or do. And my parents did a really good job of separating the expectations of other people from their own expectations.
• 12:45
  Chris McAlilly: But, you know, at the Mexican restaurant, I've got a five year old, an eight year old, and 11 year old. At some moment in that journey, however long it is, 45 minutes, everything's gonna break down. And so then, you know, as a parent, you then begin to worry about those perceptions of other people about you, as a parent, in the midst of everything else. It is, it's exhausting. Parenting is far more exhausting to me than pretty much any other aspect of my life some days. And so just trying to get to a place not only of confidence, but just like the ability to be humble.
• 13:18
  Chris McAlilly: And, you know, know that any success or failure on any one day is not going to be... That's not going to win or lose the game, you know, keeping the long view.
• 13:33
  Chris McAlilly: What are some other kind of basic just frameworks that have been helpful for you, beyond parent from a place of humility?
• 13:39
  Chris McAlilly: That's excellent. What other frameworks or ways, kind of the spirit in which you parent have been helpful, as you share with other parents?
• 13:49
  Kari Kampakis: Yes, you know, one of the things, sometimes I have these sayings that just stick in my head. But we have a youth pastor here in Birmingham, named Cameron Cole. And I went to a parenting seminar years ago that he did. And he said something that always stayed with me. He said, "We're not parenting for our 16 year olds to like us. We're parenting for our 40 year olds to respect us." And especially as my kids became teenagers, I really had to cling to that. Because sometimes parenting is hard, and nobody likes to be the bad guy. And especially if you're the parent--I mean, my husband and I have different roles, but I'm usually the one at home. And so I'm usually the one having to enforce the rules, or tell them no or yes, more of the time. And nobody likes that job.
• 14:26
  Kari Kampakis: And I think we live in an age of buddy parents, where everybody just wants to be friends, and you want to have that relationship, which is great. I think that relationship is crucial. But you also have to have rules, too. And it's hard to parent with both, you know, the rules and the relationship having both of those in place.
• 14:41
  Kari Kampakis: So it really helped me to think that, okay, if I want my child to be successful at 40 years old, something they might not understand at 16 such as why I'm not letting them go on this trip or why I'm not saying yes to something they're asking for.
• 14:53
  Kari Kampakis: I'm doing it for their long-term good, but their underdeveloped brain can't quite understand And an example I think of is I have friends whose parents got that yet.
• 15:03
  Kari Kampakis: divorced when they were teenagers. And it's very interesting listening to them when they talk about how, you know, "when I was 16, I blamed this parent. But then when I was 40, I kind of saw it in a different light. And now I have so much respect for my mother, because I realized all the times that she held her tongue when she could have bad mouthed dad." Or they just see things from a different perspective, and they respect their parent even more.
• 15:23
  Kari Kampakis: So for me, it kind of helps to keep in mind, what do I want them to think of me when they have that older, more mature adult brain?
• 15:31
  Kari Kampakis: You know, another example I did a podcast, a woman said she has three sons. And she was always strict about their video games.
• 15:37
  Kari Kampakis: She would not let them play video games all day. And, of course, they would fight her on it in high school. But now that they're in college, they thank her, because they have a lot of friends who skip class, and who have no motive, and who have no motivation or any purpose. And they just sit and play video games all day. So they understand now or what their mom was doing. So that perspective has helped me, I guess really stay strong in those areas and those moments when I want to
• 16:01
  Eddie Rester: Yeah, I think one of the things, so my kids are 19 give in or cave.
• 16:03
  Eddie Rester: One of the stories from my high school, I had a miserable and 21 now, is that how true that is years later. That is chemistry teacher. He was mean.
• 16:08
  Eddie Rester: He graded everything at the far hard to see in the moment, because it's miserable in the extreme. He made us memorize stuff that, you know, mean old moment, when you're holding the boundary in the moment, and the most loving word you can offer is "No." It, just, I mean, you question everything about your existence. Should I? What would happen if? Is it really that bad? How could we? How can we maybe work together on it? And it's just real hard to think about.
• 16:52
  Eddie Rester: chemistry teachers shouldn't make you memorize. And I would go back and thank him every time I saw him after I took chemistry in college, because I understood. Kids don't understand. Children don't have the capacity to understand. So you just sometimes have to hold the line, I think, when they don't and you do.
• 17:14
  Eddie Rester: I know that recently, I want to shift the conversation a little bit just to what you're seeing in young women and adolescents in this era, you know, in the COVID created world we're in, in the era of TikTok and Instagram.
• 17:26
  Eddie Rester: What are you seeing that impact on young women? Where is the research? What's happening right now to adolescents? And then how do we parent our way through some of those things?
• 17:43
  Kari Kampakis: Yeah, you know, I think in the work that I do, I'm seeing a lot of anxiety, like we always have, but even more so.
• 17:49
  Kari Kampakis: And then especially with girls, just that comparison, and social media has really ramped that up.
• 17:53
  Kari Kampakis: It's just, you know, doesn't matter what you're doing and what season of life you're in, it's just you're seeing things online that can take you kind of down a negative road. And so even, like I gave this example the other day, now I have a lot of friends whose kids are going to college. And they go to college and they pledge their dream sorority or they think they're on this great path. But then they get online and they see all their pledge sisters together without them. And all of a sudden, they think they have no friends, and they just go from this high--they think that their life is going great--to now they're going down that negative mindset, like, "I have no friends. My four years will be miserable," all of that.
• 18:27
  Kari Kampakis: And what we're not doing is we're not asking God what his But even younger girls, it's very interesting. I was talking to some moms yesterday who are behind me. They have younger daughters. And we're talking about how, you know now, vision is for our life. And his vision is so unique for each sometimes you're seeing the third and fourth and fifth grade girls looking like the middle school and high school girls.
• 18:41
  Kari Kampakis: That look that we're used to seeing at dances and proms, I feel like it's trickling down younger and younger. And I do think that's social media, that you're just looking for that vision. So for me, I think that we look online, and we see these images, and they stay ingrained in our mind. And we do it as parents too. We look at other people's families. And we think we're doing Christmas wrong, because we don't have the same traditions that somebody else is having, or they look like they're having more fun. And so I think we look online, whatever age we are, and we try to make that the vision we have for our life and we try to make our life match up with what we're seeing.
• 19:18
  Kari Kampakis: family, for each child. And we're not really looking at the blessings we have and realizing how we're all made to be different because we're trying to aspire to whatever we're seeing on social media.
• 19:28
  Kari Kampakis: So I definitely see that with the teenage girls not feeling cute enough or pretty not or popular enough, and then the anxiety. And then the big thing is just friendship. And this one I do not understand, but everywhere I go--I mean, I'm not saying, I do not say girls are mean, because I don't think all girls are mean and I don't think that we should have these blanket statements--but people today can just be really mean, and people are really struggling in friendships, especially girls. And to me, it's something so basic, because everybody wants kind friends, so why can't we be kind to each other? But girls are really struggling to find those friendships with people that they trust and the friendships that will last 20 or 30 years, like I think what maybe we experienced when we were their age.
• 20:09
  Eddie Rester: How does anxiety play itself out in the life of a teenage girl? What does it look like? Because I know it probably looks different for boys and girls. What does it do when a young woman is ramping up, when she's feeling that grip around her heart? How does it play out?
• 20:31
  Kari Kampakis: Yes, you know, my favorite story. And I shared this on one of my books, it actually happened to one of my friends. And luckily my mom friend is a very level headed, rational person. So she could talk her daughter through this.
• 20:41
  Kari Kampakis: And I think that's what we bring to the table as parents, is helping our kids see that rational, big-term picture when they are panicking. But her daughter was at school, she's a very smart girl. She was in 10th grade, she called her mom panicked. She said, "Mom, you've got to come check me out.
• 20:56
  Kari Kampakis: Everybody is talking about how hard this history test is. I'm going to fail it. I can't take it today, please come and get me." So as parents, that's one of those hard situations, you know, it's very tempting to go rescue them, to be their savior that day, and to make them happy. But her mom was like, you know, "I'm not going to come get you." She's like, "You've been spending time in the mall, haven't you?" And that's the common area in our high school.
• 21:15
  Kari Kampakis: And that's where all the kids go between classes, they all make each other panic and freak out about how hard a test is, or whatever is going on. And so she's like, "I told you to beware of the mall mentality.
• 21:27
  Kari Kampakis: That's why you gotta get out of the mall. I want you to go to the library, clear your head, and you're ready for that test.
• 21:32
  Kari Kampakis: I promise you'll do fine." So her daughter didn't believe her. But she had no choice but to go take that test. And she took the test, she made an A.
• 21:40
  Kari Kampakis: This girl later went on to graduate, she was a national merit finalist, got a full scholarship to college. She's a very intelligent girl. But I think, you know, even she doubted herself when she got in that mall. And so I think that's what anxiety does. It's like we all have some mall in our life.
• 21:54
  Kari Kampakis: And it might be the mall of what everybody else is doing, or the mall of sports, or the mall with social media. And you can go from a place of calm and confidence to suddenly you're panicking and freaking out.
• 22:05
  Kari Kampakis: So for me, it always goes back to just faith and just looking at Jesus and just remembering, even with Peter, you know, when he was looking at Jesus, he was able to walk on water. But as soon as he got distracted and started thinking about the winds and everything else, he started to sink. And so as parents, we've really got to get our anxiety under wraps and realize that we've got an issue with it, so that we can coach our children through it. Because like my friend did for her daughter, if her mom had panicked, because she had been a really anxious person, then that scenario would have played out really differently. And her daughter would not be in the position she is today.
• 22:38
  Chris McAlilly: I think the theme that I hear in those last couple answers, is just vision, having the ability to see clearly. And then to see maybe in a bigger picture or with a little bit more rationality than just the emotions of the moment.
• 22:57
  Chris McAlilly: Not just seeing through the lens of social media, but kind of seeking, exploring God's vision for your life or for your family's life. What are some of the habits that have helped you in your faith as you've navigated, kind of cultivating on a daily basis or weekly basis, proper vision? And then what are some of those that you found helpful in teaching either parents or girls?
• 23:26
  Kari Kampakis: That is a great question. You know, I think the biggest thing for me, I'm a very anxious person by nature. So if anyone listening is anxious, I totally relate to that. But when my kids are struggling, and when they're going through something hard or something that scares me, and my mind starts going into the future, the what if they're projecting, I have to remind myself, one, God is found in the present, so really just be present. And don't think about the past and don't think about the future, but just like, look at the present, and just be thankful. "Okay, look at my daughter's health. And our family has a roof over our heads." Just been really grateful and in the moment. And I think sometimes if we get too far into the future and our worries, it can really distract us and kind of envision the worst case scenarios. So that really helps.
• 24:08
  Kari Kampakis: And then also just really trusting God, and a lot of times praying in advance when I am stressed or I'm anxious about a situation and I don't see the road ahead, and I don't see an answer, and I don't know how bad a certain situation or maybe a health issue they have is going to get. For me it helps to say,"God, I'm scared, and I don't understand what's happening, but I'm trusting you in advance. I know that you have a good plan for my child." And for me, I feel like getting my heart in that place of gratitude and trust, it helps kind of ground me to where I am and just let go of trying to control everything.
• 24:43
  Kari Kampakis: Because ultimately I think that's where we go wrong.
• 24:45
  Chris McAlilly: That's so helpful. So I hear be present, Especially as moms, I think we live in an age where we feel like we have a false sense of control. You know, my child struggling in math. My first thought is okay, what tutor can I get her? Or if they want to make a team, what coach can I get them? We're used to outsourcing all these different things, but you know, there comes a point where only God can help us and I think the moments that really can help us grow in faith. And just really spend that time with him, asking him, you know, "what is your vision for our family?" and just trusting him with the unknown, because we don't always get that clear cut vision.
• 25:16
  Chris McAlilly: cultivate kind of a habit of gratitude, trust, honesty, with God with where you're at. And then ultimately, it comes down to just letting go. I remember, Eddie and I were teaching a class of young parents back when we were working together several years back. I remember one of the things that he said. His kids were in high school at the time. My kids were very, very small. And I remember, we were kind of offering tips and tricks and theological frameworks and all this. And at the end of the day, Eddie was like, "At the end of the day, you just have to entrust your kids to God." I have not forgotten that. So it's just, you know, entrust, I just have to entrust my kids to God, knowing that God has got them, in a way that I never will be able to. And that was really impactful when I heard you say that. I have not forgotten it.
• 26:10
  Eddie Rester: Thank you. You know, one of the things entrustig them in God thing sometimes works against, at least, me for that is, when a kid shows up in your life, you suddenly impart dreams on that child, your dreams on that child. And sometimes when they show an aptitude in something, you really start laying your dream--even if you never say it to them--your dream on that child. And I think there came a point for me, when my oldest was probably a junior, when God finally broke me of that, that I had to say, "my kids aren't going to be me in high school." They're not going to complete my dream, or whatever it was, that was inside of me.
• 27:00
  Eddie Rester: And I think we stayed in the helicopter parents or tiger, I don't know what you call them anymore. You know, those parents that are always at the school insuring their kids success, trying to prevent their kids from failing, suffering consequences. And I think there's a lot to entrusting your kids to God, like you're talking about, just that deeper faith with them.
• 27:29
  Eddie Rester: The most recent book you wrote really was focused on moms. I mean, that's where you are.
• 27:35
  Eddie Rester: "More Than a Mom." It's about prioritizing wellness and well being for moms and parents. Why is that? Why was that important for you to write, in this moment?
• 27:52
  Kari Kampakis: Well, my book"Love Her Well" had just come out. And so it was the middle of COVID. And I was talking to my editors about the next book, and they really wanted another parenting book. And I was like, every mom I know is struggling right now. And even though we're past COVID, now, I mean, moms are still struggling in a different way than maybe before.
• 28:10
  Kari Kampakis: And they're like, "We know, but we really kind of imagined a parenting book." But I was like,"Yes, but getting moms in a good place is going to impact their parenting." So that was one thing they really challenged me to do, like, "Okay, help us see the connection. Why moms taking the time to invest in themselves is going to help their children?" And I think what I've realized as my kids get older is that, I'm not saying that you don't need to be in a good place when your kids are little. But I feel like a lot of the issues we have really don't matter as much, or they can be buried when our children are small. Just because the needs when our kids are little... I mean, I was just trying to keep my children alive every day. It was you know, reading bedtime stories and changing diapers and making sure everyone was safe. And it was a lot of the you know, I hate to say brainless work, but sometimes I'm like, I just miss using my brain.
• 28:52
  Kari Kampakis: But as our kids get older, and they're more self sufficient, they don't need us in the same way, but they do need our guidance and our advice, and we're put in harder situations.
• 29:01
  Kari Kampakis: And so you realize, if you're not in a good place, if I'm not in a good place mentally, then I'm not gonna be a very good mentor and coach for them. And what we see as our children grow up, too, is that as parents, we move from a place of control to a place of influence. And the challenge for parents today is that kids today, they have a thousand influences and voices they hear every day. I mean, we didn't grow up with social media. So we weren't hearing all these voices, but they have a thousand voices they can listen to. So the question for parents is what can we do to inspire them to listen to us?
• 29:32
  Kari Kampakis: You know, we have got to earn that voice in their life. And it's not going to come by us getting mad or saying, "You better listen to me, or "I know what I'm talking about." It's got to come from that relationship and them seeing that we're a good source of advice and wisdom and encouragement. And I laugh because I'm 50 years old, and I still go to my dad for this. I mean, when I'm having an issue, I need help processing something or thinking about what I should do, I'll call him up because he gives great advice. And so I think that's something we underestimate as parents is that when we're getting ourselves in a good place, when we're healthy, physically and mentally and spiritually as much as we can be, it's going to make us more effective for our children, especially as they grow up and need us new ways.
• 30:09
  Chris McAlilly: How to cultivate...
• 30:11
  Eddie Rester: You know, help young parents... Go ahead, Chris.
• 30:13
  Chris McAlilly: Well, I think the thing that I wonder about is just how to cultivate... I do think my own parents were good parents. And so that's a source of wisdom. How to cultivate a group of people, or I guess, identify, like who the people that would go to for the wisdom I need to navigate this next season of life? That's a question. I think it's an important question. I think it's one that I'm kind of thinking through.
• 30:40
  Chris McAlilly: But I wonder, sometimes I wonder about kind of what the role of the church is, within that. I know that you get to a lot of different churches, and I know that the churches that you're gonna go to are churches that are actively trying to gain competency or to resource. What have you seen? Have you seen churches that do this well and on a communal basis, so it's not just each individual parent by themselves? What do you think the role is of the church in coming alongside parents and families?
• 31:06
  Kari Kampakis: Oh, yeah, I mean, I think churches are more important than ever. And I mean, it's just, you're supplementing what the parents are doing. But I think a lot of parents now, they maybe didn't grow up, they're not very Bible literate.
• 31:18
  Kari Kampakis: And sometimes you don't even really care about your relationship with God until you become a parent. I mean, I know, that's what really fueled my faith was like, "Ooh, I wish I was a much better person," as I became a parent. I wish I'd known 20 years ago what I know now, but it took a lot of parenting and experiences and mistakes to get there.
• 31:33
  Kari Kampakis: But you know, I think that kids today, like I said, I truly believe that you can handle anything in life with your faith and with a support system. And what I'm seeing is that a lot of these kids today don't have that support system. I mean, they don't have the friendships to help cushion the pain, or maybe their parents have a lot of big issues in their life, and they're not able to be there for their children. And so the way I see the church, and anybody that's in ministry, is that's just more people coming around children to help them through those hard experiences. And sometimes you don't realize how much you need the church or your youth pastor, your pastor until you are in those dark moments, and you're going through those dark times.
• 32:09
  Kari Kampakis: But what I see as I travel to these places, I'm just so appreciative for what these people are doing. Because you don't always see immediate payoff. You don't always see the reward. In heaven, I think we're all going to find out a lot more, the impact that you had in your work, than what you're seeing here on Earth. But there's nothing more important than helping these kids grow in faith. And really, you know, we talked earlier about the vision, I think it's just giving them that framework, because that Christian framework of how to see the world, they're not getting it. They're not getting it in everyday life anymore.
• 32:38
  Kari Kampakis: Maybe 10 years ago, they kind of were, especially here in the South. But you know, what we're teaching at home is not being reinforced in the world. And that's what parents are really challenged with. And I would say most of my new readers this past year are the really young moms because they are scared to death. I mean, they're raising children in a totally different climate. It's a post-Christian climate than what I raised my kids in. But you know, the role of the church is to come alongside them and to love their kids and to be there to, you know, teach them and, you know, like I said, support their kids, no matter what they're going through. I just I don't think there's anything more important than that.
• 33:11
  Eddie Rester: One of the things that I read years ago in the book, "Sticky Faith," was that every kid needs five adults outside their parents, pouring into them, shaping, talking them. And, you know, I've carried that forward. And we have a process in our church called confirmation. And we have confirmation mentors, and I was meeting with them this past Sunday night. And I said, "This isn't just a passing moment.
• 33:36
  Eddie Rester: This is what this kid desperately needs--a voice of influence outside their parents, to help them." That's somebody that they can trust, that they can rely on, that they can seek wisdom from.
• 33:51
  Eddie Rester: And I think sometimes, and I'm speaking more than just to parents, I think sometimes people sell themselves short.
• 33:58
  Eddie Rester: It's not about you know, I'm going to teach a kid, you know, everything theologically about life. It's about showing up and being present. And I think sometimes parents can have a role in that, in asking other adults, to say, "Hey, can you just come alongside my kid?" I mean, you don't have to wait on the church to do it.
• 34:21
  Kari Kampakis: Right.
• 34:21
  Eddie Rester: I think it's, you know, entrusting our kids to God sometimes means entrusting them to the life of the Church, as well.
• 34:30
  Kari Kampakis: Definitely. You know, and I get a lot of calls or emails from moms and they're struggling because their child was in a friend group, and they've been shut out. They have no friends. A lot of times, they're in a small town. There's eight kids in the class, and they're not friends with any of them. So they're like, "What do I do?" And I'm like, the most important thing is to surround your child with love. Give them extra love at home. And I'm like, think outside the box. Is there a youth pastor or dance teacher or somebody who your child really connects with?
• 34:53
  Kari Kampakis: Reach out and ask them if they'd take them to go get ice cream or coffee or whatever it is.
• 34:59
  Eddie Rester: I want to loop back around because I was about And I mean, I think most adults, especially if you have a heart for kids, that they would be so honored if you reached out in to ask question, and Chris asked a great question. But just about that way. And I know that so many in ministry do that. And, you're right, it's so important.
• 35:08
  Eddie Rester: And I can remember when my kids got to the point when I was praising them or telling them how well they did and something.
• 35:14
  Eddie Rester: And they said, "Well, you have healthy, becoming healthy, becoming a person that your kid to say that your my mom." And there comes a point where we're not enough, and they do need those outside voices, those people who see their potential and believe in them, and just really take a liking to them for the person that they are, that don't have that obligation to do so because they're family. And I think we do, you're right, we underestimate that and how we could do that for each other's kids.
• 35:47
  Eddie Rester: can look to. The thing I often tell parents, young parents particularly, is if you're fighting, if there is--every family has dysfunction--but if there's great dysfunction happening in your parental relationship, even if your kids never see the fight, they never hear the angry tones you're putting on, kids have this radar for it. They pick up on it somehow. I don't know how that works. But I think what you're pushing parents to, particularly moms, is be that healthy, take the time. Are there some habits that you would encourage? And I'm thinking right now young moms, and even dads, habits that you'd say, "This can help you get there, or help you stay there?"
• 36:36
  Kari Kampakis: Yes, I think the biggest mistake we make, and I have been guilty of this and had to really re-correct myself, is just the culture of child-centered parenting that we have. And like I said, when your kids are little, I think it's you're all in. You know, there's this is the one thing in life you don't want to mess up. But it's really easy to make your kids the center of the universe.
• 36:52
  Kari Kampakis: And what happened, as my kids grew up, is that they were still the center of my universe, but they were pulling away and wanting to hang out with friends and do other things. And meanwhile, I realized that I had sacrificed a lot of things in my life to be what I wanted to be, a good mom to them. And so I got clingy, and I realized that it was like my center of gravity.
• 37:11
  Kari Kampakis: But the more I tried to cling to them and make them hang out with me, the more they did not want to.
• 37:16
  Kari Kampakis: So what my realization was, I was like, okay, this is why, one, God wants us to find our identity in Christ and not our child. But, two, I've got to broaden my scope as an adult.
• 37:25
  Kari Kampakis: And so I think God is really gracious in sometimes letting these things happen to show us that maybe this isn't the healthiest path. Like even now that my kids are older, you know, I have more time, and he's really been gracious. I'm like, this is good, because I need more time for doctor's appointments. My health is getting more important and I'm not as young as I used to be, you know. I've kind of put on the back burner, put some of my friendships and my marriage with my husband, because we were so busy, just divide and conquer in those really busy years. And now we have time to reconnect.
• 37:51
  Kari Kampakis: But you know, we all know adults who hate going home because So one of my biggest pieces of advice is just to find things in your life that keep you strong and get you in a healthy place, so that you're not relying on your children to be your source of joy. Because especially in the teenage years, we all know that's a scary proposition. And if we're parenting, expecting their parents put so much pressure on them, like they that immediate reward, or them to be that source of joy, then we're just going to push them away. But if we love them, and we have this healthy adult life apart from them, then they're going to want to come home and they're going to want to be part can't be happy unless the child is home. And I just say, of our life if we are just enjoying their presence when obviously, we don't want to totally, you know, go off to they're there.
• 38:29
  Kari Kampakis: Europe for months at a time and leave our children, never wanting that relationship. I mean, that's not something I would choose to do. But I do think that it's good for them to see us having joy, and having these adult relationships apart from them. And even the passions in our life, whatever work it is that we're doing, whatever God's calling us to do, and know that we can be happy without them. We might be happier when they're home, but we're not relying on them to be our source of joy.
• 38:53
  Chris McAlilly: Yeah, I'm all in on this because I think one of the things I've recognized, you know, so my oldest is 11. You know, I don't know, there's like this decade thing that happens where you have a kid and then your life, your identity shifts, and then you literally just don't have time for... The kid does--the child, the human, the blessed son or daughter--takes up. They have to become the center of gravity. But the process, I guess the journey of parenthood is to allow that to happen, allow that fundamental transformation of who you are to shift, so that you take on a new identity and a new vocation, but then also through time to check in with yourself enough and ask,"Alright, where am I now? What were my dreams, hopes, desires and passions five years ago that I'm not tapping into now?" That's the work that I'm having to do, is to go back and say alright, what did I really love before I had kids? And traveling was one of them. You know, I look back at you know where have we gone? My wife and I used to travel all the time before we had kids. And, you know, I was talking to another father who has slightly older kids. I was like, "Man, I can't go any farther from Oxford, Mississippi than Chattanooga, Tennessee." It's like three and a half hour car ride is, like, tops.
• 40:17
  Chris McAlilly: Anywhere beyond that, there's just no way, no way we can make that happen. But that's changing now.
• 40:24
  Chris McAlilly: And so just tapping into what...
• 40:24
  Chris McAlilly: Part of it is what are the visions that I have for my life, my passions? And then I want to show my kids the world, that's part of what I'm realizing. Like there's this narrow window where if I don't begin to show. I've seen a lot of the world. And I want to show them the world that I saw, that gave me passion and joy when I was 10, or 11, or 12 to 25, or 35. And so I gotta get... I'm starting to feel that urgency that I know only grows from the beginning of adolescence through, you know, 18,19. So, yeah, I don't know.
• 41:04
  Chris McAlilly: How do you encourage parents to do that? What are the ways? How do you tap back into your desires, your passions, your joys?
• 41:14
  Kari Kampakis: Yeah, I mean, I think just, I'm a big believer that every mom, especially, should have something that's her own, something totally apart from her family. And I've learned that in my wife that sometimes, when I'm having a bad day with my kids, especially when I had three teenagers under the roof at one time, that sometimes it was that other area of my life that I had invested in, which was writing, that somebody would send me an email on just the right day. It was just like that little encouragement I needed in that right time. So it could be whatever your passion is. It could be that you love teaching the Bible. You want to do a Bible study. It could be tennis.
• 41:44
  Kari Kampakis: It could be cooking. But I do think it's really important for our kids to see us passionate about something.
• 41:51
  Kari Kampakis: I love what you said about your passion for travel, how that was your passion before kids and it looked one way then. But now that they're getting older, you want to still have this passion, but share it with them, be their tour guide. And they want to see us happy. They want to see that passion. And I think it's so healthy. You know, it can be really easy, especially at the season I'm in when you just think about all your kids leaving home and to be sad, to see nothing but darkness ahead.
• 42:14
  Kari Kampakis: But I think it's great to have these things that we look forward to. I look forward to traveling again with my spouse, or I look forward to having more time to pursue this hobby that I haven't had time to. And to see that we can still have a life apart from our children, but sharing that passion with them and letting them see that.
• 42:29
  Kari Kampakis: I think, too, letting them see that vision of a healthy adult, going back to the vision thing.
• 42:32
  Kari Kampakis: But I'm really aware now, with my kids being teenagers, that when my mom passed away, it was so interesting to me that so many memories of her were in my teenage years and my college years. And I sat there and asked myself, I'm like, "why am I having this flood from that season?" And I realized that it was because that's when I was probably more mature minded. I could remember those memories.
• 42:54
  Kari Kampakis: And I was with her a lot still.
• 42:54
  Kari Kampakis: I wasn't living in a different city. And so it made me think like, Okay, what my kids are seeing in my life right now is really going to stick with them.
• 43:03
  Kari Kampakis: And so how can we show them a vision of a healthy adult, a vision of a joyful adult pursuing their passions that God has given them?
• 43:10
  Chris McAlilly: I have a question, just piggybacking off that for both of you, what do you guys... Because I do think that's one of the things I observe in parents, parenting shifts as kids go off to college, or they go into the adult world, but also marriage shifts too. And so I wonder kind of what you guys are learning?
• 43:28
  Chris McAlilly: Because so much of the shared journey of marriage from zero to 18 is about the kids. What are you guys learning? What wisdom could you offer about the transition from "we're parenting these kids together that live in our home," to "now we're having to reconnect, and kind of learn how to be married together just by ourselves all over again?" I know you're not quite there, Kari, but I'm sure you're anticipating those questions or you interact with moms that are thinking through that as well.
• 43:59
  Chris McAlilly: What wisdom can you guys offer?
• 44:05
  Eddie Rester: Well, you know, my wife is very wise. She's much wiser than I am. And so one of the things that she said, when we were about to have our first, Sydney, I remember it. We were pulling back into the garage, she was nine months pregnant and miserable, and I said something about how our life's about to change. We're about to just focus on our kids forever, and that's going to be our life. And she was very clear, as she often is with me. Nope. We're still going to take care of us.
• 44:32
  Eddie Rester: Because if our kids see a healthy marriage, they're gonna grow up knowing what a healthy marriage is. They're gonna grow up with confidence. They're gonna grow up.
• 44:40
  Eddie Rester: And so you know, we tried to do a lot of things through the years just us. And our kids, I think now that they're 21 and 19 have seen that, and it's given them what you were saying a minute ago, Kari, it gives them more respect for us. They've seen us act like adults. But being an empty nester and getting to help watch, not help, but just watch your kid's life begin to bloom. It's just one of the best parts of raising kids.
• 45:10
  Eddie Rester: Every, I've said for years, every stage of raising kids is awesome and comes with its own challenges. And this one does, too. We're about to send a kid 13 hours away to work. And, you know, it's a thing, but it's a joy as well, I think. But just finding those ways through the years to stay in the game together has kept my wife and I in the game together, as our kids have moved on.
• 45:41
  Kari Kampakis: I love that. And I wish I had been like your wife at the beginning. Because I think that's the wise way to go about it. For me, I feel like, like I said, I put, maybe not in the beginning, but we had the four, especially in the teenage years. I remember, there's one night, Harry and I we're driving. He was coming home from work and I was driving the opposite way, and we're like waving at each other because I was taking a child to a game.
• 46:00
  Kari Kampakis: And I thought this is our life right now. We are just passing in the night. And you know, luckily, when COVID hit, that's where we were. So it was really kind of a relief, because we finally got to spend more time together.
• 46:11
  Kari Kampakis: But like I said, it's never too late. no matter where you are in your marriage. Like, I think for us, we got kind of comfortable.
• 46:16
  Kari Kampakis: Like we're good. We love each other. We're very confident in that. But we were so busy with the kids and juggling their activities. Like I said, I kind of put my marriage and my friends on the back burner. So even though my kids have not all left home, we are at a point where we often have a Friday or Saturday night where everybody's gone. And at first it was really unsettling. Like, we weren't sure what to do with ourselves.
• 46:36
  Kari Kampakis: And it felt kind of boring. But now after a couple years, we love it. And so it does, it feels like you're back in your 20s again, and we could just spontaneously like, "Hey, let's go to dinner," or "let's call these friends and see if they want to meet us at dinner." Or we'll talk about what plans we hope to have, what trips we plan to take when we are empty And so I think it's just like I said, God is so gracious. I nesters.
• 46:57
  Kari Kampakis: think that if we kind of kept on that path of always beign busy with our kids, we may have never made this effort to reconnect.
• 47:03
  Kari Kampakis: And it's so important, because it does give you that hope for what's ahead. And I do know that some people listening might be a single mom or single dad and I don't want them to feel like there's no hope for them because they don't have that relationship with their spouse.
• 47:14
  Kari Kampakis: But you can still, you're gonna have that freedom to make more time for your friends. And it might be your work friends or whoever else, but just knowing your adult relationships and just enjoying your adult life again, I think can be so enriching and so positive for our children to see.
• 47:31
  Chris McAlilly: I just am grateful for that. Because what I hear there is there's a light at the end of the tunnel.
• 47:38
  Chris McAlilly: That's...
• 47:39
  Kari Kampakis: Yeah.
• 47:40
  Chris McAlilly: That's enough for me. You know, there's a light at the end of the tunnel.
• 47:42
  Chris McAlilly: I was talking to this couple, their kids are gone from the home. They're empty nesters. And the mother was just saying,"This is so hard," and the dad was saying, "I thought this was the goal."
• 47:58
  Kari Kampakis: True.
• 47:59
  Chris McAlilly: And so anyway, you know, it's a joy. I do think every stage of parenting, it has its own joys and it has its own challenges. So grateful to you, Kari, for kind of guiding us through it and helping us think about some of those stages today. Really appreciate your presence, and your voice and your witness. So thank you.
• 48:17
  Chris McAlilly: Thank you. Thank you.
• 48:21
  Kari Kampakis: Thank you both for having me. I loved the conversation.
• 48:24
  Eddie Rester: [OUTRO] Thanks for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast, the best way to help us is to like, subscribe, or leave a review.
• 48:32
  Chris McAlilly: If you would like to support this work financially or if you have an idea for future guests, you can go to theweightpodcast.com. [END OUTRO]