Latest / Through the Line: Packaging and Processing / How User Experience Drives Better Cancer Diagnostics: Healthcare Packaging

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How User Experience Drives Better Cancer Diagnostics: Healthcare Packaging · Through the Line: Packaging and Processing

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Through the Line, the podcast exploring innovations and information across the packaging and processing landscape.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: From topics impacting consumer packaged goods and healthcare packaging to the latest technologies and food processing operations.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: Hello everyone, Liz Cunio here, editor-in-chief of healthcare packaging.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm here with Melissa Carter from Abbott.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: So Melissa, thank you for joining me today.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you for having me.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: So you are the principal director of service innovation at Abbott.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: So before we get into maybe what that means, I wanted to ask you a little bit about your experience, college background, some of your first jobs, and how you got where you are today.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's good.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I've had what I think is quite a career evolution.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: I can't believe that I am where I am today based on where I started.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: But my my background, my undergrad degree is in advertising.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I got that through a journalism school.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think one thing that really was important coming out of that journalism school that I've carried with me today is knowing how to ask questions and how to really listen to the answers.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that's very important in my role and it's carried through my career.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: But when I first came out of college, I was a graphic designer and I designed grocery ads as my first job for about three years, had a few different graphic design roles, and then was very fortunate to move to a medical device manufacturer doing design.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: But they were also a great open company.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I had some wonderful people that I worked with who saw potential, who were willing to let me try out different roles.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: So that led to me moving into digital product management, had a user experience bent to it, and then from there moving into customer experience.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I see the thread throughout all of my roles as being very user-focused.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: I've always been fascinated and interested in designing something for someone, thinking about how they use it, how they interact with it.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just been at increasingly larger scale as my career has progressed.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's interesting.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: From grocery ads to medical device.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: When you first made that switch, was it for the medical device themselves, or were you doing graphics?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if it's graphics for the packages or the products.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: It was more for advertising.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: So in trade publications, I also designed booth graphics, things like that.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, interesting.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, very cool.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I noticed your your path from being a Kroger, a graphic designer, and then kind of going from there.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so we met at the packout where you gave a pretty cool presentation about what you're doing now.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess we can kind of segue into where you're at today at Abbott and the role that your position or whatever your role is.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: So right now I am in service innovation for Abbott Cancer Diagnostics.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: We're formerly Exact Sciences.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Our company was just acquired by Abbott earlier this year.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: And what I do is look at our sample collection kind of ecosystem, how we get sample collection kits out to providers, how providers are using them or patients are using them, and how they come back to us.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: So that entire service of sample collection.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: And as a part of that, I also look at what our kits do, how they're used, how they're designed.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: And you talked about at the packed out that you serve different customers, if you will, right?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: A hospital staff may be using it, but they're using it with a patient, right?
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so what that looks like and who you have to design for varies.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I thought that was interesting with what you do.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: Let's see.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: So going back to the early days, what did you want to be as a kid?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: I was a little bit all over the place as a kid.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: I am very thankful to my parents for not encouraging my interest in becoming a professional mime.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: So fortunately, that did not pan out.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: But the things that were a little bit more realistic, I definitely thought about being a teacher.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: That was familiar to me.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: I've got a lot of educators in my family.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: I thought about being an architect for a while.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I do see that as being very related to what I do today.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: That interest in how people interact with a space is still very ariance-driven.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I discovered an interest in advertising as a teenager, just seeing what I thought were really cool ads in Rolling Stone and Spin magazine.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to make those.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: I liked the idea of taking a brand, taking a product, and figuring out how do I visually present this in a way that catches people's attention and makes them want to get more interest in the product.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that that stuck and that's what I pursued.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: So when you finally did get into packaging, were you like, was it a good transition from advertising and graphic design?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: Or was it did you was it something as natural as a transition?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: The thing that I really like about service design and experience design is that it can be applied to a lot of different disciplines, a lot of different segments of business.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it was coincidental that I worked in packaging and in the sample collection.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: That was just where we needed someone at the time.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: My interest in that interaction, and we've all unboxed things.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was really fun to unbox.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: So having that user experience background, I did adapt naturally to thinking about how someone interacts with the packaging.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I like working with physical things in addition to digital.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a great opportunity to do both.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: And in your opinion or professional opinion, I would say, how important is the user experience when we talk about medical packaging?
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's critical, but maybe not in the way that most people would expect.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: When we think about consumer goods, you want that kind of wow factor with unboxing.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think and packaging, and I think with healthcare professionals, our job is to get out of their way.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: So when we think about someone opening up that packaging, there should be the least amount of friction possible.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: They really should not think about it.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Our job, good user experience with packaging, should be invisible to our end users.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: And for these collections, it really is it doctors or lab techs?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: Who is actually using some of these products?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we have, like you mentioned, quite a few different customers, a lot of different users.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Some of them are phlebotomists who are drawing the blood for our blood-based tests.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: We do have some tissue-based tests, so those are pathologists, but then we do have some patient-facing kits as well.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Colaguard is the big product, so that's an at-home colon cancer screening test.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: That one ships directly to the patients, no healthcare provider involved.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: Every customer base has different needs, different things that they're thinking about, and that's part of the fun as well.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I imagine for that one, I loved what you said about the packaging should just get out of the way of the user.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: I imagine for the Colaga product, maybe it's a different thought of the packaging, right?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's a different user.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe the packaging has to help the product, I would think, because just doing something at home can be stressful.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: Our job with the patient-facing kits are to relieve that anxiety as much as possible.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: You think when someone's receiving that kit, you have to think about their mindset.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they're screening for the first time and dealing with this idea that it could come back positive and all the stress that comes with that.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: So whatever we can do in the design to alleviate those fears to make this as easy as possible and not a daunting task can go a long way in helping patients complete the test.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: It really depends on who's using the product and who it's intended for.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's all about what are they trying to do at that time and how can we best help them do it.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: So for the healthcare professional, it's getting out of their way.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: For the patient or the person being screened, it's to reassure them and support them in their journey.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: How does your background help you find solutions to usability problems in medical device?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think throughout my career, I've been listening to users, listening to customers, and having to listen through what they're saying.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it's that idea that what someone says they want or what they need is not always necessarily what they need.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: And those that ability to ask the right questions, to hear what they're saying, to pick up on those little cues, to dig a little bit deeper has been a theme throughout.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: So even if it's graphic design, someone telling you that they want certain colors or images, you have to understand what they're really asking for when they're asking for those things and not necessarily just give them exactly what they're asking for.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the same through product design, through experience design.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: What are they really trying to accomplish?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: What questions can I ask to get to the root of that?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a good point.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I love that goal goes back to maybe your journalistic background, I'll say, right?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: Asking the right questions or reading maybe between the lines when someone gives you an answer.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: What's the most rewarding thing about your job?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Or helping people get screened for cancer, finding cancer earlier.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: We know that early detection leads to better patient outcomes.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a huge responsibility, but also huge reward as well.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's cool.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: Did you ever have a mentor when you were in college or in your early career days?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing formal, but I've been very fortunate to have managers and colleagues who were very open with sharing their knowledge with support.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: Some great managers who saw my potential even before I did and would nudge me toward projects and roles that I maybe didn't think I was ready for, but ultimately set me up for success and this development path that I've been on.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: Very cool.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: Do you so do you think life sciences and user experiences is, I don't want to say where you'll be the rest of your career, but was this do you feel like this is kind of it for you?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: I do really enjoy it.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, I would never have thought that I would have ended up in such a regulated industry from where I started and some of my roles.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: But it's so rewarding.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I love having a job where I feel like I'm doing good in the community and giving back and helping people improve their lives.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a space that I think will always need improvement and is an ever-evolving space.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I could definitely see staying here for a very long time.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: Very cool.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: What is a typical day-to-day look like?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure that's difficult to answer.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: Or does it change every day?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: Are you mostly at a desk in front of your computer or are you running around?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm very fortunate that I work remote.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that gives me, so I'm on Teams calls a lot.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: And what I'm doing usually depends on what phase of the project that we're in.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I may be out in the field doing user research, helping support user research on site or in a research facility, putting prototypes in front of potential users.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: I may be working with our stakeholders, either in a workshop in person or virtually defining requirements and working through some of those meaty problems that we're trying to solve.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Or I may just be stepping away from my computer for a while and thinking through the workflow, the journey map, the process.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: What do we really need this solution to be?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: What are the potential pitfalls that we may encounter?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one of the things that I like is that there are a lot of different aspects of this job, and it just depends on where the program is at the time.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you did you mention at the packout, getting some user feedback on some of the products.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Is that a bit what you would do, or would that be a different team?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: So we do have a human factors engineer on staff, and she runs the programs, but with my background, I go support as well.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm usually the person in the room taking notes and asking follow-up questions while someone else is leading it, but then taking all the information that we get from those studies and using them to inform how we change or stay the course on our program.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: And how important is that user feedback, would you say?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: It probably for any industry.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's critical.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: You, in my opinion, you really should not be launching products without it.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: We can have the knowledge that we have, the experience that we have, and make our best educated guesses, but we are not the users.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: So getting in front of those users, getting their feedback can be surprising a lot of times.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: So because it is often surprising, I would say it's necessary.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: I usually ask as kind of a wrap-up question, like what advice you have for a young professional just getting started.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: I usually talk to a lot of more direct packaging engineers.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: So someone in packaging engineering school, which I know wasn't your path, but I guess any career advice for anyone starting out interested in this space.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Just stay curious.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Always think about your user, always be open to their needs, their wants being different from what you had in mind.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be too attached to your ideas.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think one of the my favorite parts of my job is when I'm wrong about something.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: I may have an idea about what we need to do, how we need to design it.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I love when a user proves me wrong because that's an opportunity for improvement and growth.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: So just keep an open mind and stay curious.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: I hear that a lot, which is so good.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: And in such a packaging is evolving too, right?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: As well as regulated in our space.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: But so it's definitely interesting and important to keep an open mind and to remember who who we're creating the packaging for.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much, Melissa, for your time.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Liz.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: Take care.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to Through the Line Packaging and Processing.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: You can listen to more episodes on all streaming platforms.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Be sure to visit us at packworld.com, profoodworld.com, and healthcarepackaging.com for more packaging and processing news.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast was edited by Bree Guns.