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Why support for regenerative farming is critical today · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:12
  Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of
• 0:14
  the Maha Lowdown.
• 0:16
  I'm Jeff Lauder back, national reporter with the
• 0:19
  Epic Times.
• 0:21
  And pretty much all I do is anything
• 0:24
  to do with Maha issues, regenerative farming.
• 0:28
  I covered the RFK junior presidential campaign from
• 0:31
  start to finish, and it's become a uh
• 0:34
  life's passion in addition to a career passion.
• 0:38
  So it takes me to a lot of
• 0:40
  different interesting places.
• 0:43
  I think it was two weeks ago, one
• 0:46
  of my guests was uh Tiffany Ryder, and
• 0:49
  I met her and my guest today at
• 0:51
  the people versus poison rally.
• 0:55
  And um I just thought that that it's
• 0:57
  interesting with uh all the anything in the
• 1:00
  Maha movement, you meet a lot of fascinating
• 1:02
  people.
• 1:05
  And uh before I go any further, I'll
• 1:07
  bring the uh my guest in, uh Katie
• 1:08
  Talento.
• 1:10
  Uh, welcome to the show.
• 1:12
  Thanks so much for having me.
• 1:13
  Appreciate it, Jeff.
• 1:15
  And uh when we talked at the people
• 1:16
  versus poison rally, we didn't really get a
• 1:18
  chance to talk too much.
• 1:20
  And I know you had said uh you
• 1:23
  were holding out on me, I think.
• 1:26
  You said uh, well, uh I worked in
• 1:29
  the Trump administration, the first administration, and and
• 1:32
  uh in with health and and um well,
• 1:35
  we didn't get much of a chance to
• 1:38
  talk, and then maybe a day or two
• 1:41
  later you wrote what I think is one
• 1:44
  of the best uh columns, personal columns I've
• 1:47
  seen written in a long time about anything
• 1:50
  related to Maha on your substack, it was
• 1:52
  confessions of a White House public health priestess.
• 1:56
  The subhead is uh I kept Robert F.
• 1:58
  Kennedy Jr.
• 1:59
  out of the West Wing now.
• 2:01
  I owe him an apology.
• 2:03
  And I just uh first of all, bravo
• 2:04
  on that.
• 2:06
  That was uh very well written.
• 2:08
  Thank you.
• 2:08
  Appreciate it.
• 2:10
  And uh we were talking before we went
• 2:12
  on air, you're a naturopathic doctor and uh
• 2:14
  your company, or you have a organization, all
• 2:17
  better health.
• 2:20
  And um, and we'll get into some uh
• 2:23
  interesting topics related to that, but I'm gonna
• 2:26
  let you explain the uh because you do
• 2:28
  it better justice than I do as far
• 2:31
  as um that column, which I'm gonna put,
• 2:34
  uh there's always an article that accompanies the
• 2:37
  show, so I'm gonna put a link to
• 2:40
  your column in that.
• 2:44
  But um why don't you tell uh the
• 2:46
  listeners um we know the headline and the
• 2:49
  subhead uh tell us a little bit about
• 2:52
  that story and how it evolved.
• 2:55
  Yeah.
• 2:56
  So I I handled uh health and health
• 2:58
  care, public health and values issues on the
• 3:00
  domestic policy council.
• 3:03
  So I was the lead health advisor for
• 3:05
  a president on domestic policy.
• 3:07
  And in doing that, you know, I had
• 3:09
  a portfolio that was uh a mile wide,
• 3:12
  you know, you have the entire HHS, it's
• 3:14
  like if it were a country, it would
• 3:16
  be the eighth largest country.
• 3:18
  I mean, it's a huge portfolio.
• 3:20
  Um, and that meant that I was responsible
• 3:23
  for vetting people and policies, um, and sort
• 3:26
  of pressing, pressing the agencies to carry out
• 3:29
  the president's agenda, things he had campaigned on,
• 3:32
  but also it meant that, you know, the
• 3:35
  millions of people who came through either the
• 3:37
  White House doors or who were trying to
• 3:40
  get through the White House doors, or who
• 3:43
  had the president's cell phone, um, which was
• 3:46
  a lot of people, you know, it was
• 3:49
  my job to vet them, to figure out
• 3:51
  what to do with them, if anything.
• 3:55
  And, you know, for any politician, they get
• 3:58
  haranged 50 times a day by a million
• 4:01
  people with requests and um and the president
• 4:04
  then Trump was no different, you know.
• 4:08
  He had been a celebrity for 10 years.
• 4:10
  This was in the first term, so this
• 4:11
  was 2017.
• 4:12
  He'd been a celebrity for for years, and
• 4:15
  um, and everyone had his cell phone, including
• 4:18
  Robert F.
• 4:20
  Kennedy Jr.
• 4:22
  And um, so I guess during transition, I
• 4:25
  wasn't part of these conversations, which is you
• 4:27
  know, just indicative of how the campaign went,
• 4:30
  but I was on the campaign, but he
• 4:33
  did his own conversations, right?
• 4:36
  It didn't work like a normal campaign where
• 4:38
  you have a scheduler and you have people
• 4:40
  who vet meetings and you know, everyone got
• 4:41
  to him.
• 4:43
  And like any good politician, he said yes
• 4:45
  to all of them, right?
• 4:46
  So whatever they wanted, he says yes.
• 4:50
  And he relies, like every politician does, on
• 4:53
  staff to, you know, take that yes and
• 4:56
  figure out exactly what that means.
• 4:59
  And the yes might mean yes, it might
• 5:01
  mean maybe, it might mean later, it might
• 5:03
  mean never.
• 5:05
  Um, or it might mean, you know, some
• 5:06
  other version of this.
• 5:09
  But it's our job to sort of figure
• 5:11
  out what that means after the yes has
• 5:12
  been given.
• 5:14
  And so I think it's important that people
• 5:16
  understand that this was a natural part of
• 5:18
  the job.
• 5:20
  Um, like vetting people, you it doesn't matter
• 5:22
  what the president says yes to, because he
• 5:24
  always says yes to everybody.
• 5:26
  Um, and then so we had heard that
• 5:28
  Mr.
• 5:30
  Kennedy had had a conversation with the then
• 5:33
  uh president elect during transition, um, Trump, and
• 5:36
  had said gotten him, I think encouraged him
• 5:39
  or gotten him to agree to establishing a
• 5:42
  vaccine safety commission or or some sort of
• 5:45
  vaccine safety initiative that he would be involved
• 5:48
  in that Mr.
• 5:51
  Kennedy would be involved in.
• 5:52
  So then after the election, we're in the
• 5:54
  White House.
• 5:55
  Um it's you know, the first few weeks
• 5:56
  or so.
• 5:58
  And of course, Mr.
• 5:59
  Kennedy comes, you know, is calling and wants
• 6:02
  to do the vaccine safety thing and wants
• 6:04
  to have a meeting in the White House.
• 6:07
  And so that's my job to take meeting
• 6:09
  requests and for in the healthcare space and
• 6:11
  figure out what to do with them, either
• 6:13
  to take the meeting, not take the meeting,
• 6:15
  whatever.
• 6:18
  So my view at that point, I was
• 6:20
  a conservative Republican.
• 6:23
  I had started off my career in the
• 6:25
  United States Senate battling on the committee that
• 6:28
  Ted Kennedy ran.
• 6:30
  And so I'd had like a long history
• 6:32
  of skepticism and cynicism toward the Kennedys.
• 6:35
  And um, so I heard, you know, a
• 6:38
  Kennedy is demanding some anti-vax meeting.
• 6:42
  And I was like, this isn't great.
• 6:44
  I was uh I'm an infectious disease epidemiologist
• 6:46
  by training.
• 6:48
  I call myself a recovering epidemiologist today.
• 6:51
  But at the time, I hadn't really woken
• 6:54
  up and um and I thought, you know,
• 6:57
  vaccines were really important intervention for public health,
• 7:00
  Public health and that there may be injuries
• 7:00
  and that there may be injuries that happen.
• 7:02
  that happen.
• 7:04
  Um I I'd had seeds planted about that
• 7:04
  Um, I I had seeds planted about that
• 7:06
  years and years prior, but I I I
• 7:06
  years and years prior, but I I thought
• 7:08
  thought that whatever the case, vaccines were really
• 7:09
  that whatever the case, vaccines were really important.
• 7:10
  important.
• 7:12
  And if we undermined vaccine uptake or vaccine
• 7:12
  And if we undermined vaccine uptake or vaccine
• 7:14
  acceptance from the White House, that kids would
• 7:14
  acceptance from the White House, that kids would
• 7:16
  die.
• 7:16
  die.
• 7:19
  This would be dangerous to the public health,
• 7:19
  This would be dangerous to the public health,
• 7:20
  and that would be a terrible thing.
• 7:20
  and that would be a terrible thing.
• 7:22
  And if, you know, whatever meetings we take,
• 7:22
  And if, you know, whatever meetings we take,
• 7:24
  send a message.
• 7:24
  send a message, and everything that happens at
• 7:26
  And everything that happens in the White House
• 7:27
  the White House sends a very loud message.
• 7:28
  sends a very loud message.
• 7:30
  And so it was important not to take
• 7:32
  meetings that would send the wrong message.
• 7:34
  So I didn't want an anti-vaccine or vaccine
• 7:37
  skepticism message coming out of the White House.
• 7:41
  So I said, we can't have this meeting
• 7:42
  here.
• 7:43
  So I called up Fauci and Collins.
• 7:46
  I don't need I don't even think I
• 7:47
  talked to them specifically.
• 7:49
  I may have talked to some NIH, you
• 7:50
  know, minion.
• 7:51
  I can't remember.
• 7:53
  And said, hey, you guys take this meeting.
• 7:55
  Take the meeting away from the White House,
• 7:57
  get this guy out of my hair.
• 7:59
  Um, and they did.
• 8:02
  And I never really heard about what happened
• 8:05
  there until many years later when Del Bigtree
• 8:08
  and Aaron Seary and Robert F.
• 8:11
  Kennedy Jr.
• 8:12
  himself started talking about that meeting because they
• 8:13
  had all been there at the meeting.
• 8:15
  And it was a meeting where all of
• 8:18
  HHS, like kind of the science um, in
• 8:21
  all caps, uh, the authorities met with these
• 8:24
  guys on the question of vaccine safety.
• 8:27
  And, you know, they spouted the party line,
• 8:29
  and um, Mr.
• 8:31
  Kennedy and his colleagues challenged the party line.
• 8:34
  And it's kind of funny to hear them
• 8:35
  retell the story because all three of them
• 8:37
  have done so.
• 8:39
  But I didn't know anything about that.
• 8:40
  And I went on my merry way, you
• 8:42
  know, we worked on price transparency and drug
• 8:44
  prices and opioid initiative and you know, all
• 8:46
  kinds of things that, you know, I'm all
• 8:48
  proud of and some things that I'm not
• 8:50
  so proud of, like the doomed repeal and
• 8:52
  replace effort.
• 8:54
  But I didn't think much about it after
• 8:56
  that.
• 8:57
  And I thought I'd just done my job.
• 9:00
  And later then, so then I left the
• 9:02
  White House around mid-2019, which means I did
• 9:05
  not have anything to do with the COVID
• 9:08
  response, thank God.
• 9:11
  Um I have enough on my conscience.
• 9:13
  I I didn't need that.
• 9:15
  But I was helping the campaign, because you'll
• 9:17
  recall in 2020, the president was running for
• 9:19
  re-elect.
• 9:21
  And so there wasn't anyone on the outside
• 9:24
  who could defend the COVID response of the
• 9:26
  administration because anyone who, you know, was supportive
• 9:28
  of Trump, but also knew anything about public
• 9:30
  health was already on the inside.
• 9:33
  So the campaign asked me to do media
• 9:34
  surrogacy work for them.
• 9:36
  So I did.
• 9:37
  I, you know, I'd go on TV and
• 9:38
  defend the COVID response.
• 9:39
  But as that was happening, I was starting
• 9:41
  to get a little cognitive dissonance.
• 9:42
  I started off very supportive of the response.
• 9:46
  But over that year, I the masking and
• 9:49
  the six-foot lockdowns and all of it became
• 9:52
  very, it was very obvious that these are
• 9:54
  not consistent with the principles of epidemiology and
• 9:57
  what we knew about this, what we thought
• 9:59
  we knew about this disease.
• 10:02
  It made no sense.
• 10:04
  And it was getting harder.
• 10:05
  And then the end of 2020 rolls around,
• 10:08
  and we're into the new administration, and that's
• 10:11
  when the vaccines came out and the mandates
• 10:15
  um eventually later in that year rolled out.
• 10:18
  But in August of 2021 is really where
• 10:20
  my attention, so I was starting to have
• 10:22
  starting to have like, you know, discomfort with
• 10:25
  with quote unquote the science.
• 10:27
  And but it wasn't until August of 2021
• 10:30
  when the FDA pulled this like legal bait
• 10:32
  and switch by approving the vaccine that didn't
• 10:35
  exist and wasn't being put into everyone's arms,
• 10:38
  but extending the emergency use authorization on the
• 10:40
  one that was that everyone was getting that
• 10:43
  I started seeing what why would that have
• 10:45
  happened?
• 10:48
  And I realized, you know, based on understanding
• 10:50
  the laws and the authorities that were used
• 10:53
  for that bait and switch, they were trying
• 10:56
  to protect Pfizer from legal liability.
• 10:58
  And in order to do that, they had
• 11:00
  to do this weird legal shenanigan.
• 11:02
  And I thought that was really gross.
• 11:04
  And um, and it it it kind of
• 11:06
  it kind of sent me over the edge.
• 11:09
  And then I started listening to Mr.
• 11:12
  Kennedy's podcast.
• 11:13
  I I read his book on Fauci, which
• 11:15
  really got to me because it was uh
• 11:17
  less about Fauci and more about just an
• 11:19
  indictment of the entire public health enterprise that
• 11:21
  I had identified myself and my career with
• 11:23
  for 20 years at that point.
• 11:26
  So um, and I just realized uh I
• 11:29
  think I was wrong back then, you know,
• 11:31
  when I had kept Kennedy and his vaccine
• 11:34
  safety initiative, whatever it would have looked like,
• 11:37
  out of the White House.
• 11:40
  Um and I, and what would have happened,
• 11:43
  like what might have been had he been
• 11:46
  allowed to be in the White House and
• 11:48
  I and had more access to us and
• 11:51
  to the president and you know, he wanted
• 11:54
  a commission, and and I'm not sure that
• 11:56
  a commission itself would have changed anything.
• 11:59
  I mean, when I worked in the Senate
• 12:01
  for many years, when we would do a
• 12:03
  bill, if we wanted to not do something
• 12:04
  but look like we were doing something, we
• 12:06
  would set up a commission, right?
• 12:08
  So I didn't have any like, you know,
• 12:11
  naive impression that establishing a vaccine safety commission
• 12:14
  would have changed policy in any dramatic way.
• 12:18
  But I do think that the conversation that
• 12:20
  we're all having now that is raising questions
• 12:22
  about the safety and effectiveness of vaccines might
• 12:25
  have started earlier.
• 12:27
  Whether that would have changed anything with COVID
• 12:29
  or the COVID vaccine, I don't know.
• 12:30
  I don't think we can know.
• 12:32
  Um, but the conversation would have started earlier.
• 12:34
  And so I when that when uh that
• 12:37
  awakening, that understanding and recognition kind of came
• 12:40
  on me in that second half of 2021,
• 12:42
  I reached out actually to Mr.
• 12:45
  Kennedy.
• 12:46
  Um, and I sent him an email just
• 12:48
  saying, hey, I I'm the one that kept
• 12:50
  you out of the White House and I'm
• 12:52
  sorry.
• 12:54
  And um, he was very gracious then, you
• 12:56
  know, in private, as he was a few
• 12:58
  weeks ago when I put this story out
• 13:00
  publicly, and he was very gracious publicly as
• 13:02
  well.
• 13:05
  Um he was very kind, but you know,
• 13:07
  it was something I wanted the world to
• 13:09
  just understand, not so much.
• 13:11
  I'm not looking for absolution or like, but
• 13:13
  I think that truth is it's is a
• 13:15
  good in and of itself for its own
• 13:17
  sake.
• 13:19
  And I think it's good to get truth
• 13:20
  out there.
• 13:22
  So that's why I wrote it.
• 13:24
  Yeah, and this is fascinating.
• 13:26
  Uh and I I was looking at the
• 13:29
  article, and I know that um you mentioned
• 13:32
  in the article that the movie Vaxed had
• 13:34
  a uh significant impact on you.
• 13:37
  And I think that's interesting because of your
• 13:39
  background and epidemiology.
• 13:42
  And as you alluded to your what you
• 13:44
  had thought about the uh about vaccines and
• 13:47
  what can you tell us about that about
• 13:49
  the impact?
• 13:54
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 13:55
  So I was running around at the time
• 13:58
  with um kind of the medical freedom and
• 14:00
  Medical freedom and community in Loudoun County, Virginia,
• 14:00
  community in Loudoun County, Virginia, where I live,
• 14:02
  where I live, because they were the only
• 14:02
  because they were the only ones meeting in
• 14:04
  ones meeting in person.
• 14:04
  person.
• 14:07
  We were all protesting the school board closures
• 14:07
  We were all protesting the school board closures
• 14:08
  and whatnot.
• 14:08
  and whatnot.
• 14:10
  And so I was meeting these these new
• 14:10
  And so I was meeting these new people
• 14:13
  people that I hadn't really ever been friends
• 14:13
  that I hadn't really ever been friends with
• 14:15
  with in kind of the medical dissident hippie
• 14:16
  in kind of the medical dissident hippie community,
• 14:17
  community, which wasn't really my crowd prior to
• 14:19
  which wasn't really my crowd prior to that.
• 14:20
  that.
• 14:22
  Um, but you know, the COVID era brought
• 14:22
  But you know, the COVID era brought together
• 14:24
  together all kinds of like non-traditional allies, which
• 14:24
  all kinds of like non-traditional allies, which was
• 14:26
  was wonderful.
• 14:26
  wonderful.
• 14:28
  Um, anyway, so the
• 14:28
  Um anyway, so the the gal who ran
• 14:32
  the state vaccine freedom uh organization called Virginia
• 14:35
  Freedom Keepers, she she and I became friends,
• 14:39
  and she urged me to watch Vaxed.
• 14:43
  And because I was expressing, I think because
• 14:45
  I was expressing a little bit of sort
• 14:47
  of discomfort with vaccines and wasn't sure.
• 14:49
  You know, I saw what was going on
• 14:50
  with the COVID vax and whatever.
• 14:52
  And so um I did, and when I
• 14:55
  watched it and I saw um what had
• 14:57
  been going on in the early 2000s, it
• 15:00
  really was crushing.
• 15:03
  Um and I remember the credits rolling, and
• 15:04
  I was crying because I felt like such
• 15:06
  a fool.
• 15:08
  And around that time, so Vaxed, of course,
• 15:10
  is a movie put together by Dell Bigtree,
• 15:13
  and he um and the he tells the
• 15:16
  story of the CDC doing its own research
• 15:18
  secretly on the relationship between autism and vaccination,
• 15:21
  and that they did get some results that
• 15:24
  they hid and that they covered up, and
• 15:27
  only 10 or so years later of a
• 15:29
  whistleblower came out and um spoke about it,
• 15:32
  and that's what the movie was about.
• 15:35
  But what it happened is during that time,
• 15:37
  that early 2000s time when this was going
• 15:39
  on behind that nobody knew about at the
• 15:41
  CDC.
• 15:43
  I had been working, I was a very
• 15:45
  young staffer working for the committee in the
• 15:48
  Senate that oversees CDC.
• 15:51
  And I had taken a meeting with um
• 15:54
  a group of moms of children with autism,
• 15:56
  and they were telling me the stories that
• 15:59
  you often hear today.
• 16:01
  It's a very similar tale, you know, uh
• 16:04
  a child who was meeting all his milestones
• 16:07
  and was doing fine, and then received a
• 16:09
  vaccination and experienced some sort of uh neurological
• 16:12
  event or some sort of traumatic health regression,
• 16:15
  and then the symptoms of autism appear.
• 16:18
  And they were asking me to investigate this
• 16:20
  and to get the CDC to investigate it.
• 16:22
  And I didn't know what to make of
• 16:23
  them.
• 16:24
  I I I they they made me uncomfortable
• 16:26
  for sure.
• 16:28
  I I didn't dismiss them at all.
• 16:29
  I they all seem to have a very
• 16:30
  credible story, and it was all the same
• 16:32
  story.
• 16:33
  And and they really planted a seed with
• 16:34
  me that like there's could be something going
• 16:36
  on here.
• 16:38
  I don't know what.
• 16:40
  But I was a new staffer and I
• 16:42
  was uh infectious disease epidemiologist, and I thought
• 16:44
  that the CDC and vaccines were all really
• 16:46
  cool.
• 16:48
  And you know, later I became a jaded
• 16:50
  cynical, you know, oversight investigator, and I would
• 16:52
  never I would never have looked at an
• 16:54
  agency that way.
• 16:56
  But at that time I did, and so
• 16:57
  I called after the meeting, I was you
• 16:59
  know, concerned, and I called up the CDC
• 17:01
  to say, like, hey, what do you guys
• 17:02
  think of this?
• 17:04
  What do you say to them?
• 17:06
  And the CDC, I don't even remember what
• 17:07
  they said.
• 17:08
  It was a non-answer.
• 17:09
  It was like, whatever, watermelon, watermelon, safe and
• 17:11
  effective, blah, blah, blah.
• 17:13
  And I didn't quite know what to do
• 17:14
  with that because I didn't have an answer,
• 17:16
  and I didn't quite know how to get
• 17:17
  one.
• 17:18
  And the only way to really get one
• 17:20
  would have been to start issuing subpoenas, and
• 17:22
  that wouldn't have worked probably, because my boss
• 17:24
  wouldn't have done that.
• 17:27
  He was a pretty establishmentarian kind of traditional
• 17:30
  conservative Republican who wasn't wanting wasn't gonna wade
• 17:33
  into controversial radioactive issues like this.
• 17:36
  Um and I told myself, well, you know,
• 17:39
  there are these two House members over on
• 17:42
  the House side of the Congress, Dr.
• 17:44
  Dave Weldon and Representative Dan Burton, who were
• 17:46
  holding hearings.
• 17:48
  And so I was like, well, let's see
• 17:50
  how their investigation turns out.
• 17:52
  And if if there's something there, then maybe
• 17:54
  I'll be able to, you know, raise something
• 17:55
  with my boss.
• 17:57
  But I didn't know really what to do.
• 17:59
  And so I had had this like, you
• 18:03
  know, past experience that, you know, maybe I
• 18:07
  was being told the truth 20 years prior.
• 18:11
  And when I saw that movie, that yes,
• 18:12
  in fact, the CDC, whatever they had said
• 18:14
  to me when I had called them, was
• 18:16
  they were lying, and they knew they were
• 18:18
  lying.
• 18:19
  And they had they had done the research
• 18:21
  that these moms had wanted, but they were
• 18:22
  hiding the results.
• 18:24
  And it was just crushing when I watched
• 18:26
  that movie, and I just felt like an
• 18:28
  absolute fool.
• 18:30
  Like my entire career had been a fraud.
• 18:32
  Everything I thought about public health was a
• 18:34
  lie.
• 18:36
  And uh, it really got me um motivated
• 18:38
  to start going down many more rabbit trails,
• 18:40
  which led eventually to my becoming a naturopathic
• 18:42
  doctor.
• 18:44
  But um, yeah, really, it really crushed my
• 18:47
  uh, you know, belief in the public health
• 18:49
  religious cult, if you will.
• 18:52
  Well, I'm gonna cut in for a moment
• 18:54
  because we gotta go to our first break
• 18:57
  and uh um we'll go to the next
• 18:59
  segment when you get back to the explore
• 19:01
  further about I like what you said about
• 19:03
  non-traditional allies.
• 19:06
  You're listening to the Maha Lowdown with Jeff
• 19:08
  Lauderbeck.
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  Liberty and justice for all.
• 20:28
  Welcome back to the Maha Lowdown.
• 20:30
  I'm Jeff Lauderback, and I'm here with Katie
• 20:32
  Tolento.
• 20:34
  And we're having an interesting conversation about I
• 20:38
  think Katie, people love hearing behind the scenes
• 20:41
  stories about um the Senate, the House, uh,
• 20:44
  the White House.
• 20:48
  Because it's something you don't get much of
• 20:50
  a glimpse of.
• 20:53
  And uh your your story's fascinating because the
• 20:57
  evolution of the Maha movement and uh how
• 21:00
  And uh how uh you know, I've covering
• 21:00
  uh, you know, I'm covering the RFK Jr.
• 21:02
  the RFK Jr.
• 21:04
  presidential campaign.
• 21:04
  presidential campaign, he talked about issues and topics
• 21:06
  He talked about issues and topics that you
• 21:08
  that you really didn't hear many at any
• 21:09
  really didn't hear many at any level, many
• 21:11
  level, many or any politician talking about, and
• 21:12
  or any politician talking about, and now it's
• 21:15
  now it's become mainstream.
• 21:15
  become mainstream.
• 21:18
  And you mentioned the non-traditional allies.
• 21:18
  And you mentioned the non-traditional allies.
• 21:22
  How impactful do you think that is now?
• 21:22
  How impactful do you think that is now?
• 21:25
  Um the Maha movement features so many different
• 21:25
  Um the Maha movement features so many.
• 21:29
  moving parts, and uh I just think it's
• 21:32
  uh I'm I'm intrigued uh that way about
• 21:36
  the non-traditional allies.
• 21:40
  Yeah, I think COVID was, I mean, it
• 21:42
  was many things.
• 21:43
  It was a you know global trauma in
• 21:45
  many ways, but it was also a blessing
• 21:47
  in many ways.
• 21:49
  And there were so many civil silver linings
• 21:52
  um that I really appreciate about it.
• 21:55
  And one of those was that you know,
• 21:59
  I came out of the you know, conservative,
• 22:02
  social conservative, fiscal conservative, traditional, you know, kind
• 22:05
  of place politically, and I ran in like
• 22:08
  churchy Catholic circles and pro-life activist circles and
• 22:12
  things places like that.
• 22:15
  And what I love about you know, that
• 22:19
  time is that the people that were coming
• 22:22
  together, yes, you had sort of the I
• 22:26
  guess left-leaning eco-friendly hippie crowd, um that was
• 22:29
  coming together with the like Catholic homesteading, homeschooling
• 22:33
  crowd.
• 22:36
  Um then you had sort of the election
• 22:40
  integrity people, they were really mad still from
• 22:44
  January 6th, and you had um, you know,
• 22:48
  people it was really just a hodgepodge of
• 22:52
  people who were really disgusted with government.
• 22:57
  And you can be disgusted with government for
• 22:58
  all kinds of reasons.
• 23:00
  Um, but it reminds me of like the
• 23:02
  the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
• 23:04
  And so we made a lot of friends
• 23:06
  because we all had the same enemy, and
• 23:08
  it was the government.
• 23:10
  And um, and I think that that movement
• 23:13
  that started then, it's not just in the
• 23:16
  Maha space, because for instance, it is in
• 23:18
  the um uh the election integrity space, but
• 23:21
  it's also in the I would argue the
• 23:24
  anti-corporate space.
• 23:27
  So um, you see, like these are the
• 23:30
  same people that are calling for us to
• 23:33
  ban China from buying farmland or to ban
• 23:36
  BlackRock from buying up all the houses in
• 23:39
  our towns, um, and to you know, who
• 23:42
  might be pro-tariffs or you know, uh the
• 23:45
  political tectonic plates are shifting underneath us.
• 23:48
  And I think honestly, I have to actually
• 23:51
  attribute this to two politicians, the first of
• 23:54
  which was Bernie Sanders, and the second was
• 23:58
  of course Donald Trump, because when he came
• 24:01
  into when Trump came into office, um, he
• 24:04
  really was staffed by a bunch of people
• 24:07
  like me, you know, like just Republicans, right?
• 24:11
  And because he wasn't gonna hire Democrats, and
• 24:12
  he had chosen our party, which he didn't
• 24:14
  have to do, but he had chosen our
• 24:16
  party.
• 24:18
  And so that's what he got is a
• 24:19
  bunch of Republican staff.
• 24:21
  And he, but he had persuaded me in
• 24:22
  many ways.
• 24:24
  And I think um he had taught me
• 24:26
  populism, which wasn't my native language, and I
• 24:28
  was really starting to see where he was
• 24:30
  coming from.
• 24:32
  And he was talking about these issues.
• 24:33
  He was talking about trade and China manufacturing,
• 24:35
  he was talking about the forgotten men and
• 24:37
  women, he was talking about um the systems
• 24:39
  rigged against the little guy.
• 24:41
  And this was the kind of talk that
• 24:43
  only Bernie had really talked about prior, but
• 24:45
  had been crushed by the Clinton machine.
• 24:47
  And so to see that takeover of the
• 24:50
  Republican Party, I saw that like up close
• 24:52
  when I was fighting with my former colleagues
• 24:55
  in the Congress, and they didn't want to
• 24:57
  take on the big drug companies, or they
• 25:00
  didn't want to take on um, you know,
• 25:02
  the big hospitals as we were trying to
• 25:05
  get price transparency and all the bigs, you
• 25:07
  know, that that Republicans had traditionally supported, especially
• 25:10
  in healthcare.
• 25:12
  We have this like knee-jerk response, knee-jerk defense
• 25:15
  of private industry that beset us after fighting
• 25:18
  kind of the Hillary care movement in the
• 25:21
  1990s, and you know, we were always trying
• 25:23
  to fight against government takeover of healthcare, but
• 25:26
  that made us like knee-jerk defend private industry
• 25:29
  and healthcare, even as private industry and healthcare
• 25:32
  became increasingly indefensible.
• 25:35
  And that was happening kind of on our
• 25:38
  watch, and it was really you know, the
• 25:40
  first time I ever worked on more populist
• 25:43
  health policy was with that first year, first
• 25:46
  year or two of President Trump.
• 25:49
  And it's continued, and it wasn't just in
• 25:51
  healthcare, it was also in agriculture and trade
• 25:53
  and um foreign policy in some ways.
• 25:55
  So I really think that that now we're
• 25:57
  starting to see this realignment, and and I
• 25:59
  don't know if there's going to be a
• 26:00
  third party.
• 26:02
  I I've always said that you know, I've
• 26:05
  always been skeptical of third party efforts, but
• 26:07
  I think that it was smart not to
• 26:09
  start a third party, but instead to just
• 26:12
  hijack one of the two parties.
• 26:14
  And the more that hijacking continues, or if
• 26:16
  it doesn't continue, you know, maybe maybe there
• 26:19
  is a third party, or maybe there's you
• 26:21
  know, gross disaffectation in the in the pop
• 26:24
  in the voting populace.
• 26:26
  I don't know what's going to happen politically.
• 26:29
  It's very confusing political time.
• 26:31
  And um, and and it's also a dangerous
• 26:33
  time, you know, as people start to feel
• 26:35
  like actually both parties are rigged against us,
• 26:38
  and nobody is actually um you know, looking
• 26:40
  out for us, even though they promised they
• 26:42
  would.
• 26:44
  I think increasingly we start to be in
• 26:47
  danger of of less democratic solutions.
• 26:51
  So I'm worried about that.
• 26:52
  But I do think that these non-traditional allies
• 26:54
  are coming together in a variety of areas
• 26:56
  of areas.
• 26:58
  And it started before COVID.
• 27:00
  It started with Bernie and then the President
• 27:02
  Trump and the first term, but COVID really
• 27:05
  solidified it because it was such a global
• 27:07
  elite takeover and destruction of um everyday people
• 27:10
  uh in every country.
• 27:14
  And at the people versus poison rally, which
• 27:17
  uh uh I alluded to earlier, and uh
• 27:21
  you you were in attendance, the that also
• 27:24
  represented the non non-traditional allies or like the
• 27:28
  wide range, uh such a bipartisan uh support
• 27:31
  group there as far as the uh people
• 27:35
  versus poison rally being just to remind people
• 27:38
  uh there's the US Supreme Court is her
• 27:42
  hearing the Durnell case where if uh the
• 27:45
  Supreme Court rules in favor of uh essentially
• 27:49
  Bear Monsanto, but the chemical companies you won't
• 27:52
  be able to sue them if you get
• 27:56
  uh if you have cancer or if you
• 27:59
  have any uh I guess that's the easiest
• 28:00
  Cancer, or if you have any uh I
• 28:03
  way to put it, uh, any any problems
• 28:03
  guess that's the easiest way to put it
• 28:05
  uh any any problems caused by the chemicals
• 28:06
  caused by the chemicals like glyphosate.
• 28:08
  like glyphosate, and I know the people versus
• 28:10
  And I know the people versus poison rally
• 28:11
  poison rally was not brought together.
• 28:12
  was not brought together.
• 28:14
  Uh well, obviously there's uh Thomas Massey, there
• 28:14
  Uh well, obviously there's uh Thomas Massey, there
• 28:17
  is Corey Booker, uh all the organizers being
• 28:17
  is Corey Booker, uh all the organizers being
• 28:20
  uh what Vonnie Harry, uh Dell Bigtree, Kelly
• 28:20
  uh what Vonnie Harry, uh Dell Bigtree, Kelly
• 28:24
  Ryerson.
• 28:24
  Ryerson.
• 28:27
  There's such a wide range of people.
• 28:27
  There's such a wide range of people there.
• 28:30
  And I've I thought it was inspired.
• 28:33
  That that was inspiring and encouraging to see
• 28:35
  that.
• 28:36
  I don't know what your thoughts are about
• 28:38
  that and about the whole people versus poison
• 28:40
  rally in that case.
• 28:43
  Yeah, I I too am inspired by the
• 28:46
  um, you know, it's not just in the
• 28:48
  health space, although it it has burgeoned out
• 28:51
  from the Maha kind of health approach into
• 28:53
  the agriculture policy area as well.
• 28:56
  Um it's all sort of one of a
• 28:59
  piece, but I I was encouraged by that.
• 29:01
  Um, but it was such a demoralizing day
• 29:03
  for me, really, you know.
• 29:06
  Um to know that, you know, there were
• 29:09
  actually three parties in that court arguing with
• 29:12
  each other, and two of them were the
• 29:15
  big chemical company and the Department of Justice
• 29:18
  on the same side fighting to deprive American
• 29:21
  citizens the right to sue if they're injured
• 29:24
  by a product.
• 29:27
  And you know, we've seen this movie before
• 29:30
  with vaccines being the only product in the
• 29:32
  entire you know universe of commercial products that
• 29:35
  you can't sue um the manufacturer if you're
• 29:38
  injured by their product, um, no matter how,
• 29:41
  or as Secretary Kennedy says, no matter how
• 29:44
  um grievous your injury or reckless the manufacturer,
• 29:46
  like they can't be sued.
• 29:49
  And we've seen what happens with that.
• 29:51
  We see cover-ups by government of injuries, we
• 29:54
  see um lies by the public health industry,
• 29:56
  we see entire swaths of the medical regime
• 29:59
  that and and white coat wearers who who
• 30:02
  either lie openly or or most of them
• 30:04
  don't even know because they've been lied to
• 30:07
  about the in the harms from this from
• 30:09
  the these products.
• 30:12
  And so that's you know, we all have
• 30:14
  lived through that.
• 30:16
  And to see this starting again now with
• 30:18
  a new set of products, and it's not
• 30:21
  just you know, a product that's that's injected
• 30:23
  into our arms once or um you know
• 30:26
  20 times when we're very young, but this
• 30:28
  is something that we're eating and consuming and
• 30:31
  exposing our bodies to every single day.
• 30:33
  And it's not just a product that is
• 30:36
  put on, you know, new ground, new young
• 30:38
  plants as they grow to keep the weeds
• 30:41
  away.
• 30:44
  It's it's it's sprayed on them right before
• 30:47
  they're harvested to dry them out because the
• 30:50
  the farm, the big ag companies, they don't
• 30:53
  want to um, and it's not just big
• 30:56
  ag it's it's almost all farming uh businesses.
• 30:59
  They don't want to have to wait on
• 31:01
  the weather to dry out the product to
• 31:03
  dry out the crops before they harvest them
• 31:05
  and grind them right into flour for all
• 31:07
  our processed foods.
• 31:09
  Um so it's it's sprayed on there to
• 31:12
  dry out because it's a desiccant as well
• 31:14
  as a weed killer, and it dries it
• 31:17
  out and it and it makes it easier
• 31:19
  to to crush and to grind into flour.
• 31:21
  And so that's like the last thing that
• 31:24
  happens to it before it goes in our
• 31:26
  food, before it becomes an ingredient in our
• 31:28
  food is it gets sprayed with this poison.
• 31:31
  And you know, a lot of people are
• 31:32
  saying, oh, well, we don't know if it's
• 31:34
  a poison.
• 31:35
  We don't know if it I mean it's
• 31:37
  designed to kill plants.
• 31:39
  So um, if it's designed to kill plants,
• 31:42
  it's going to kill at the very least
• 31:44
  the microbiome in our gut, right?
• 31:47
  It's going to at least affect the microbiome
• 31:50
  in our gut, which is large much of
• 31:52
  it um thrives on plant matter, much of
• 31:55
  it is plant matter or looks like plant
• 31:58
  matter, like, you know, that's what this is.
• 32:00
  And so it's a very effective weed killer.
• 32:04
  And I worry so much about all, you
• 32:08
  know, we are the sickest, fattest, saddest, most
• 32:12
  infertile, most anxious um generation in human history.
• 32:16
  And we wonder why that is, you know,
• 32:18
  why do half of all children have a
• 32:19
  chronic illness?
• 32:21
  Why are all of us on so many
• 32:22
  drugs?
• 32:24
  What is gone on, you know, and certainly
• 32:26
  the the white coat religious cult has nothing
• 32:29
  to say about this.
• 32:31
  They have presided over this decline over this
• 32:34
  extinction level chronic illness rates, and and told
• 32:36
  us that, you know, it's all in our
• 32:38
  head, or we just need, you know, we
• 32:41
  were all just born with like a certain
• 32:43
  pharmaceutical product deficiency, and then we just need
• 32:45
  more pharmaceutical products and we'll be better.
• 32:48
  Like this is these are not the experts.
• 32:51
  These medicine is not going to save us.
• 32:54
  Modern medicine is not going to save us.
• 32:56
  And to see, you know, the way the
• 32:59
  demonization of these people who are calling for,
• 33:02
  like, hey, maybe we need to take stock
• 33:05
  of the exposures in our environment.
• 33:08
  Um, because something has changed.
• 33:10
  What has changed?
• 33:12
  Um, and you know, Secretary Kennedy, before he
• 33:13
  was secretary, he used to write about this
• 33:15
  and talk about this.
• 33:17
  And he said, you know, if you look
• 33:20
  at when health really started dramatically um decreasing
• 33:23
  or declining, you can see that there has
• 33:25
  to be some common factors to to that
• 33:28
  we could look at.
• 33:31
  We could limit the the range of exposures
• 33:33
  that we look at to a set of
• 33:35
  common factors and start to study that because
• 33:37
  there aren't that many potential factors that could
• 33:39
  be the cause of all this.
• 33:42
  Um, and maybe it's a combination of all
• 33:44
  of them, but that research hasn't been done.
• 33:47
  And instead, we see our government that that
• 33:50
  we elected into office on the promise of
• 33:52
  making America healthy again.
• 33:55
  We see our government and our government's best
• 33:58
  lawyers going into the Supreme Court and arguing
• 34:01
  that we should not have any recourse for
• 34:03
  a certain type of product that is coming
• 34:06
  into our bodies and our children's bodies and
• 34:09
  our unborn children's bodies every day for our
• 34:12
  entire lives.
• 34:14
  And that is demoralizing to me.
• 34:18
  And that's interesting because the Maha movement, um,
• 34:21
  obviously I I've talked about covering the uh
• 34:24
  RFK Jr.
• 34:27
  presidential campaign, and then he left the race
• 34:30
  and endorsed President Trump and uh really the
• 34:34
  Maha movement had a critical impact in especially
• 34:37
  the battleground states of uh getting Trump elected,
• 34:40
  like uh one of the political consultants that
• 34:44
  I had on the uh last week was
• 34:47
  talking about that, about how the messaging was
• 34:51
  a vote for Kennedy as a vote or
• 34:54
  a vote for Trump as a vote for
• 34:57
  Kennedy, because uh the belief was that uh
• 35:00
  Because uh the belief was that uh uh
• 35:01
  once elected president Donald Trump will give RFK
• 35:02
  once elected president Donald Trump will give RFK
• 35:04
  Jr.
• 35:05
  Jr.
• 35:08
  the chance he uh has or what he's
• 35:08
  the chance he uh has or what he's
• 35:10
  doing right now.
• 35:10
  doing right now.
• 35:13
  And and I know a lot of people
• 35:13
  And I know a lot of people in
• 35:16
  in the Maha movement right now are a
• 35:16
  the Maha movement right now are a little
• 35:18
  little bit upset about uh about the glyphosate
• 35:19
  bit upset about uh about the glyphosate issue
• 35:21
  issue and uh some other matters, and it'll
• 35:21
  and uh some other matters, and it'll be
• 35:23
  be interesting to see how that impacts the
• 35:24
  interesting to see how that impacts the midterms
• 35:26
  midterms.
• 35:26
  and
• 35:29
  And I didn't know if you had uh
• 35:31
  we're coming up to our next break.
• 35:33
  We have a few minutes, but um didn't
• 35:35
  know if you had any thoughts on that
• 35:38
  about uh how it's happening in the Supreme
• 35:41
  Court and with the glyphosate order.
• 35:43
  Will that have an impact as far as
• 35:46
  uh whether or not Maha supporters will vote
• 35:49
  Republican or vote at all?
• 35:52
  Yeah, I mean, I think that uh I
• 35:55
  think it has been very clear that you
• 35:58
  don't win the presidency without suburban moms.
• 36:01
  And so I really appreciate that the Maha
• 36:04
  movement kind of helped us capture some of
• 36:07
  those moms because it of course capitalized on
• 36:10
  their most deep, deepest concerns, right, for their
• 36:13
  children and their children's health.
• 36:16
  And these are women who are seeing their
• 36:18
  kids have to be medicated in a variety
• 36:21
  of ways, um, in ways that they themselves
• 36:23
  were not medicated as children, and it's all
• 36:25
  very concerning, and it's really hits it it
• 36:28
  could not be closer to home, right?
• 36:30
  These issues.
• 36:32
  And so I I agree.
• 36:34
  I do think that that this movement is
• 36:36
  critical.
• 36:38
  Um and it's not that I think a
• 36:41
  lot of, I mean a lot of these
• 36:43
  moms are not gonna just go vote Democrat,
• 36:46
  although who knows, maybe maybe they will.
• 36:49
  I think a good chunk of them will.
• 36:51
  I think a good chunk of them probably
• 36:53
  had voted Democrat for most of their lives
• 36:54
  until this movement.
• 36:56
  Um so some of them will, but I
• 36:58
  think a lot of them are are gonna
• 36:59
  look around.
• 37:01
  If this is an important issue to them,
• 37:02
  they're not gonna see any hope on the
• 37:03
  other side either.
• 37:05
  And so I think they'll just stay home.
• 37:07
  And that'll be enough.
• 37:08
  That'll be enough to um to really impact
• 37:10
  the the next election.
• 37:13
  So I'm very concerned about that.
• 37:15
  I I was concerned about it when um
• 37:17
  when Mr.
• 37:19
  Kennedy was running for president, you know, and
• 37:21
  I was so because I'm, you know, kind
• 37:23
  of at the time, even as I was
• 37:25
  waking up on these health matters, I was
• 37:27
  still a pretty reliable Republican soldier.
• 37:30
  And um, and I was very concerned because
• 37:32
  he was awesome and he was speaking everyone's
• 37:34
  language.
• 37:36
  And I'm like, this guy, this if if
• 37:37
  this election is Trump v.
• 37:39
  Kennedy, you know, we could have a problem.
• 37:42
  And um and so then when the Democrats
• 37:44
  kicked him out of their party, I was
• 37:46
  totally relieved, right?
• 37:48
  Like, oh, thank God, you know, like he's
• 37:49
  not gonna undermine the the Trump election, is
• 37:51
  sort of what I was thinking.
• 37:53
  And then it could not have been a
• 37:55
  better outcome in my view than to have
• 37:57
  the two of them lock arms um, you
• 37:59
  know, on that turning point stage.
• 38:01
  So that was the greatest.
• 38:02
  And I and I I am just very
• 38:05
  sad and demoralized and frustrated at how difficult
• 38:07
  um I guess the White House and the
• 38:10
  industry forces are making it for Secretary Kennedy,
• 38:12
  you know, to do his job and to
• 38:14
  k and to do what the president and
• 38:17
  he promised would be done.
• 38:19
  It's it's very difficult.
• 38:21
  And maybe on the other side of the
• 38:23
  break, we can talk about why the glyphosate
• 38:25
  issue and the executive order um maybe happened
• 38:27
  and and what we can you know expect
• 38:29
  from that in the future.
• 38:31
  But um, there's a lot to say there.
• 38:33
  So it's a complex issue, but I think
• 38:35
  it's it's a very demoralizing situation to have
• 38:37
  the DOJ arguing the case for Monsanto.
• 38:40
  And we will uh we're gonna head the
• 38:42
  our final break, and when we come back,
• 38:44
  we will uh touch more on the glyphosate
• 38:45
  order.
• 38:47
  You're listening to the Maha Lowdown on the
• 38:49
  America Out Loud Network.
• 38:51
  Oral hygiene hasn't changed in 50 years, but
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  our diet and the way we eat has
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  oral health.
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  Sprite can be found online and at all
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  fine natural retailers.
• 39:27
  Welcome back to the final segment of the
• 39:29
  Maha Lowdown.
• 39:31
  I'm Jeff Lauderbach with my guest Katie Talento,
• 39:35
  who wears or has many uh interesting uh
• 39:38
  titles, I guess, uh, with being a health
• 39:42
  advisor during the Trump administration first Trump administration,
• 39:45
  uh epidemiologist, the naturopathic doctor.
• 39:49
  You're you're well suited to talk about any
• 39:52
  of these issues going on right now with
• 39:54
  um with health care and the Make America
• 39:56
  Healthy Again movement.
• 39:59
  And uh we were talking before the break
• 40:01
  about the glyphosate order, and um what did
• 40:03
  you want to expound on about that about
• 40:06
  why it happened and where do we go
• 40:08
  from here?
• 40:11
  Yeah, so I the way these industries work
• 40:14
  is they come in and they they catastrophize
• 40:17
  with policymakers and they say, you know, we're
• 40:19
  under attack, we're it's g uh apocalypse now,
• 40:22
  and and they are under attack.
• 40:25
  They were facing hundreds of lawsuits.
• 40:28
  Um the first few had not gone well
• 40:29
  for them.
• 40:31
  And so I think the strategy was determined
• 40:34
  that they were gonna go to the government
• 40:37
  and they were gonna say we're pulling out
• 40:40
  of the United States market if you don't
• 40:43
  protect us and immunize us against these lawsuits.
• 40:46
  And you know, whether that's really uh true
• 40:48
  or whether they were bluffing, I I don't
• 40:51
  know the answer to that.
• 40:54
  But I have to imagine it's probably a
• 40:57
  bluff because um if you think about their
• 40:59
  markets, you know, there's a lot of Europe
• 41:02
  where glyphosate is either being phased out already
• 41:04
  um or is already illegal, or it can't
• 41:07
  be used as a desiccant, it can only
• 41:09
  be used as a weed killer.
• 41:12
  Um so there are, you know, there the
• 41:15
  needless to say, the United States is one
• 41:17
  of their biggest markets.
• 41:20
  Um, so I don't know if they really
• 41:21
  would pull out.
• 41:23
  Um, but they may have viewed these lawsuits
• 41:25
  as as existential to them.
• 41:27
  So it's either we pull out of our
• 41:29
  biggest market or we um you know get
• 41:31
  crushed by liability.
• 41:33
  And so either way, it's existential.
• 41:35
  So I think what they did is they
• 41:37
  they went and they said, we're pulling out
• 41:39
  and we're gonna pull out like in five
• 41:41
  minutes.
• 41:43
  We're not going to give all your agricultural
• 41:46
  interests and all the farmers and uh food
• 41:48
  companies and um, you know, large agricultural companies
• 41:51
  a chance to transition to something else you
• 41:54
  know over a period of years where they're
• 41:57
  priming and r restoring their soil.
• 41:59
  We're not gonna do any of that.
• 42:00
  Not going to do any of that.
• 42:01
  We're just going to pull out, and all
• 42:01
  We're just gonna pull out, and all these
• 42:03
  these conventional farmers are going to just be
• 42:04
  conventional farmers are going to just be SOL,
• 42:06
  SOL.
• 42:06
  you know, they're gonna they're gonna be in
• 42:08
  You know, they're gonna they're gonna be in
• 42:09
  trouble and they're gonna go bankrupt because they
• 42:11
  trouble and they're gonna go bankrupt because they
• 42:12
  don't have the organic methods or the regenerative
• 42:13
  don't have the organic methods or the regenerative
• 42:14
  methods to restore the soil and the soil
• 42:15
  methods to restore the soil and the soil
• 42:17
  health that would prevent some of these weeds.
• 42:17
  health that would prevent some of these weeds.
• 42:20
  And um, so it would be catastrophic for
• 42:20
  And um, so it would be catastrophic for
• 42:23
  our agricultural community, including our small farmers as
• 42:23
  our agricultural community, including our small farmers as
• 42:26
  well as our large farmers.
• 42:26
  well as our large farmers.
• 42:29
  Um
• 42:29
  Um we're gonna pull out and that we're
• 42:31
  gonna do that to, you know, uh middle
• 42:33
  America.
• 42:35
  And if you don't do this for us.
• 42:37
  So I think that's probably what happened.
• 42:40
  And so the president was under incr incredible
• 42:43
  pressure from the Department of Agriculture.
• 42:47
  Um and the Department of Agriculture is uh
• 42:49
  a very unique agency.
• 42:52
  So unlike other agencies, let's take the Department
• 42:55
  of Transportation, for instance.
• 42:57
  If you take the Department of Transportation, their
• 43:00
  job is to promote American transportation, right?
• 43:04
  To promote transportation um interests and safe and
• 43:09
  you know, transportation, I guess, usability and quality.
• 43:15
  But when a plane crash happens, it's not
• 43:17
  the DOT that comes on the scene to
• 43:19
  investigate what exactly happened here and to regulate
• 43:22
  the heck out of the industry.
• 43:24
  That is a different organization called NHTSA, which
• 43:27
  I think is the national health care.
• 43:30
  I don't remember.
• 43:30
  Is it not healthcare?
• 43:31
  It's um national, I don't remember what the
• 43:34
  national transportation safety something.
• 43:37
  Um NHTSA comes on scene and they're the
• 43:39
  regulators.
• 43:40
  And the same thing with Department of Energy,
• 43:43
  you know, they promote American energy interests.
• 43:45
  They don't um, they're not the enforcers.
• 43:48
  There's an enforcer like the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
• 43:51
  Um, so when there's a huge accident, nuclear
• 43:53
  accidents, not Department of Energy that's on scene.
• 43:56
  It's this special regulation.
• 43:58
  Even with the FDA, which is like semi-independent
• 43:59
  from HHS.
• 44:01
  So HHS is out there promoting health and
• 44:04
  whatever, but it's the FDA that's actually the
• 44:07
  enforcers in many ways.
• 44:10
  And that's why they're supposed to be a
• 44:12
  little bit independent, a little bit different.
• 44:14
  USDA is very different.
• 44:16
  In their charter, their job is to promote
• 44:19
  agricultural interests.
• 44:22
  It's the only agency that has that charter
• 44:24
  specifically to actually promote an in the same
• 44:27
  industry that they regulate.
• 44:31
  And it's strange.
• 44:33
  And you know, we think of these regulators
• 44:35
  as out there to protect us against, you
• 44:37
  know, the sort of craven interests of greedy
• 44:39
  corporations that, you know, if they follow their
• 44:41
  interests, they might hurt us.
• 44:44
  But instead, so often we see the capture
• 44:47
  of these regulators where they're protecting the interests
• 44:50
  of their regulated entities against us, against scrutiny
• 44:53
  by us or policy change forced by us.
• 44:56
  And USDA is particularly susceptible to this because
• 44:58
  of their charter.
• 45:00
  I I had to fight them on a
• 45:02
  few issues when I was in the White
• 45:04
  House, and I saw this weird um way
• 45:06
  that they protected their industries in what I
• 45:08
  had never seen before, and I thought was
• 45:10
  very strange, because I'd only worked in healthcare
• 45:12
  before.
• 45:14
  So that is what is going on here,
• 45:17
  and they were very much representing the concerns
• 45:19
  of big ag and big, you know, conventional
• 45:22
  farming interests.
• 45:25
  And I'm not saying they're wrong, right?
• 45:27
  That that's not necessarily wrong, but they're also
• 45:29
  supposed to be protecting the public, right?
• 45:31
  And they couldn't they they couldn't really do
• 45:34
  both very easily in this particular case.
• 45:36
  And so I wouldn't be surprised if that
• 45:39
  threat by Monsanto and Bear is what happened,
• 45:41
  and that was the impetus for this um
• 45:44
  this executive order, which basically comes out and
• 45:47
  says, listen, we need glyphosate.
• 45:49
  It's a national security supply chain issue.
• 45:52
  If it got pulled tomorrow, it would be
• 45:54
  apocalyptic for our massive agricultural industry and our
• 45:56
  food supply.
• 45:58
  And that is true.
• 46:00
  The problem is, like, then what?
• 46:02
  Okay, so what next?
• 46:04
  And if what next is, you know, we
• 46:06
  we argue against their interests and uh we
• 46:07
  argue with their interests in court.
• 46:09
  I I don't, I think that's probably a
• 46:11
  little too far.
• 46:12
  But I will say that on the executive
• 46:14
  order, it's just I mean, listen, all executive
• 46:17
  orders are generally just sort of PR statements.
• 46:20
  They're really what they are is they're like
• 46:22
  love letters to the secretaries encouraging secretaries to
• 46:24
  do something.
• 46:26
  The lawyers won't even let you demand that
• 46:27
  the secretary does something.
• 46:29
  You have to write it in this weaselly
• 46:31
  language, like, you know, according to applicable law,
• 46:34
  like please consider regulating, blah, blah, blah.
• 46:36
  And that's that's how it's written.
• 46:38
  And it leaves a lot of it basically
• 46:41
  directs the Secretary of Ag to Um essentially
• 46:43
  determine what the policy needs to be to
• 46:46
  protect this food supply and to protect this
• 46:48
  national security interest of having glyphosate in the
• 46:51
  immediate term.
• 46:54
  And so she does not have to, the
• 46:56
  secretary does not have to like, you know,
• 46:58
  come out and and screw all of us,
• 47:00
  you know, in favor of Monsanto.
• 47:03
  Um, she can exercise discretion.
• 47:05
  And so far, I have not seen, you
• 47:07
  know, any truly evil craven response to this
• 47:08
  executive order yet.
• 47:10
  And I'm very interested to see how they
• 47:12
  carry out this discretion.
• 47:13
  Um, so I don't know.
• 47:15
  And it and if all that all it
• 47:17
  took to keep Monsanto from pulling out tomorrow
• 47:19
  was, you know, hey, we're gonna issue this
• 47:21
  executive order, which is just a love letter
• 47:24
  to Secretary Rollins, you know, maybe it's okay.
• 47:26
  Um I think it's very telling that they
• 47:28
  didn't even warn the Secretary, Secretary Kennedy about
• 47:30
  this at all because they knew he'd freak
• 47:31
  out.
• 47:34
  So it's very interesting what happened, but I
• 47:36
  I don't think it's quite the calamity yet.
• 47:39
  We'll have to see.
• 47:40
  It's not quite the calamity yet.
• 47:42
  But it also doesn't mean that you need
• 47:44
  to be in court taking Monsanto's side against
• 47:45
  the people, right?
• 47:47
  So that was a that was unnecessary.
• 47:50
  I think one of the positives out of
• 47:53
  all this is and I think uh Zen
• 47:55
  Hunnicott was telling me that in an interview,
• 47:57
  where uh in Zen Hunnicott is the head
• 48:00
  of uh moms across America for those who
• 48:02
  don't know.
• 48:05
  She was saying, and uh John Clark, who
• 48:08
  is uh regenerative cattle farmer in Vermont and
• 48:11
  uh a Maha advocate.
• 48:14
  Both of them said something I thought was
• 48:18
  really telling that this glyphosate order has brought
• 48:21
  attention that maybe otherwise wouldn't have been brought
• 48:25
  on the need for as RFK Jr.
• 48:28
  puts it off ramps for regenerative farmers to
• 48:32
  have fewer chemical inputs or no chemical inputs.
• 48:37
  The transition to from conventional to regenerative farming.
• 48:41
  And then uh it also has brought attention
• 48:44
  to consumers about locally sourcing your food, knowing
• 48:46
  where your food comes from.
• 48:50
  Last week uh was in northern Ohio and
• 48:54
  did another one-on-one interview with uh Secretary Kennedy
• 48:57
  on that, the need for education, and we
• 49:00
  On that, the need for education.
• 49:00
  were at a uh regenerative farm up there
• 49:02
  And we were at a uh regenerative farm
• 49:04
  that supplies produce to chefs and restaurants around
• 49:05
  up there that supplies produce to chefs and
• 49:07
  the country.
• 49:08
  restaurants around the country.
• 49:11
  It's an interesting niche.
• 49:11
  It's an interesting niche, and they have the
• 49:12
  And they have the culinary vegetable institute.
• 49:13
  culinary vegetable institute.
• 49:15
  That's called the chef's garden.
• 49:15
  That's called the chef's garden.
• 49:17
  But uh Secretary Kennedy again was talking about
• 49:17
  But uh Secretary Kennedy again was talking about
• 49:20
  that, the importance to provide off ramps so
• 49:21
  that, the importance to provide off ramps so
• 49:23
  farmers can grow like that, like uh they
• 49:24
  farmers can grow like that, like uh they
• 49:26
  do.
• 49:28
  do there at the Chef's Garden.
• 49:32
  Um with your background in health, how how
• 49:36
  does that uh interrelate, you think about education
• 49:40
  about uh where your food comes from.
• 49:45
  Yeah, I mean, I think that that's a
• 49:46
  l I I mean, I love Zen, of
• 49:48
  course, and we're all doing the best we
• 49:50
  can to respond to this glyphsate business, but
• 49:52
  I think it's a little bit of a
• 49:54
  cope, you know, to say like, oh, well,
• 49:56
  this lawsuit gives us a chance to rally
• 49:58
  and protest and gives us a chance to
• 50:00
  educate people.
• 50:02
  Like, you know what would educate them more
• 50:04
  is if there were giant lawsuits that Monsanto
• 50:06
  was losing a big part of it.
• 50:08
  Oh, well, that's that's obviously the most uh
• 50:10
  the best outcome.
• 50:12
  Yeah.
• 50:12
  Right.
• 50:13
  Right.
• 50:13
  So I I mean, okay, I, you know,
• 50:16
  I guess this this terrible thing that the
• 50:18
  government's doing, like kind of helps us to
• 50:21
  talk about it, and therefore we educate people.
• 50:24
  Um, I do think that um like what
• 50:26
  a lot of farmers are seeing, I think
• 50:28
  is you know, if I'm a farmer, I'm
• 50:30
  a conventional farmer today.
• 50:33
  Uh I'm seeing two things.
• 50:34
  I'm obviously seeing this political agitation, like the
• 50:36
  rally and all the maha moms talking about
• 50:38
  this.
• 50:41
  And that's got me a little bit scared
• 50:43
  about you know my own farming practices and
• 50:45
  how I might survive if I had to
• 50:46
  change.
• 50:49
  But the other thing that's like a wonderful
• 50:51
  factor that's I think driving change is just
• 50:54
  the market, right?
• 50:57
  Because of Maha, you know, Costco has like
• 50:59
  a massive organic uh offering, you know, like
• 51:02
  it's very impressive.
• 51:04
  Walmart, Walmart didn't you, I mean, literally three
• 51:06
  years ago, I was looking for organic food
• 51:08
  at Walmart and it was barely to be
• 51:10
  found.
• 51:12
  And so things are really changing, and that
• 51:15
  market is also a huge driver of what
• 51:18
  especially the large agricultural interests are choosing to
• 51:20
  do.
• 51:23
  And unfortunately, our food supply is dramatically influenced
• 51:26
  and dramatically delivered by giant agricultural interests, not
• 51:28
  typically your small regenerative farmer that you and
• 51:30
  I might buy all our food from, but
• 51:33
  that most people aren't and don't wouldn't even
• 51:35
  know how to find them or to get
• 51:38
  food from them.
• 51:40
  So it's really important that, you know, as
• 51:43
  we that we don't lift our foot off
• 51:46
  the pedal one bit on our messaging around
• 51:49
  the importance of regenerative food and the importance
• 51:52
  of you know, pesticides and herbicides being um
• 51:55
  increasingly regulated and removed from the market when
• 51:57
  possible.
• 52:01
  And for them to bear liability for the
• 52:04
  products they make, because as we start to
• 52:06
  increasingly educate the public about these issues, the
• 52:09
  market is changing and the demand from consumers
• 52:12
  is is so increasing.
• 52:15
  And, you know, I think the the vast
• 52:17
  field of of change still needs to be
• 52:19
  the restaurant industry.
• 52:22
  You know, it's very difficult to find organic
• 52:24
  offerings in a restaurant.
• 52:26
  And so the more agricultural interests that we
• 52:28
  and there I saw some horrible statistic, like
• 52:31
  half of all people under 30 eat every
• 52:33
  meal cooked by a restaurant.
• 52:36
  Um and it's just very scary to me
• 52:39
  that we still haven't impacted the the food
• 52:41
  supply enough.
• 52:44
  So um I I do think that we
• 52:46
  can turn every defeat um into an opportunity
• 52:49
  for education, but we shouldn't, you know, pretend
• 52:52
  that it's not a defeat.
• 52:55
  Now, what is your uh obviously you talked
• 52:57
  about your role when you're with the Trump
• 52:59
  administration?
• 53:01
  What have you done since?
• 53:03
  And uh what are you doing now and
• 53:05
  for the uh the future?
• 53:07
  What are some projects you're working on?
• 53:09
  Yeah, thanks for asking.
• 53:11
  So I um right now I I run
• 53:13
  a business called All Better Health.
• 53:15
  We build health plans for employers, kind of
• 53:18
  innovative gorilla-style health plans for um employers who
• 53:20
  are getting screwed by Blue Cross or United
• 53:23
  or Optimum, and we fire all those guys
• 53:26
  and we we kind of rehumanize their health
• 53:29
  benefits.
• 53:32
  So that's what that's the main thing that
• 53:34
  I do with most of my time, but
• 53:36
  I also um I write now.
• 53:38
  And it's been wonderful to not be a
• 53:39
  staffer and not have to speak in someone
• 53:41
  else's voice.
• 53:43
  Um, so as you mentioned, I I have
• 53:44
  a substack.
• 53:46
  It's called All Better.
• 53:47
  Um, and you can find it at Katie
• 53:49
  Talento.com.
• 53:50
  Katie, that's Katie with a Y, and uh
• 53:52
  Talento T A L.
• 53:55
  Um, so yeah, that I I write about
• 53:57
  these issues.
• 53:58
  I write about the Maha movement, I write
• 54:01
  about um kind of personal growth, about feminine,
• 54:03
  masculine energies, I write about naturopathic topics, and
• 54:06
  I write a lot about health care policy,
• 54:08
  you know, um hospitals and insurers and and
• 54:11
  all that kind of bread and butter healthcare
• 54:13
  policy.
• 54:16
  Um, but I do that there at Katie
• 54:17
  Tolento.com.
• 54:19
  Well, we're coming down to our last minute,
• 54:20
  minute and a half.
• 54:22
  I was wondering, um, what has been the
• 54:24
  reaction you've gotten from that article about uh
• 54:27
  RFK Jr.
• 54:30
  Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of
• 54:33
  people have been most people, especially the high
• 54:35
  profile people in the movement, you know, starting
• 54:38
  at the top with Secretary Kennedy have been
• 54:40
  extremely gracious and sort of understanding um and
• 54:42
  welcoming.
• 54:45
  And I think that um, you know, all
• 54:48
  our all my heroes in the movement and
• 54:50
  all many people's heroes in the movement were
• 54:53
  once, you know, blind and dumb like I
• 54:55
  was, right?
• 54:58
  And um, whether they're doctors like Pierre Corey
• 55:00
  or Peter McCullough, um, or their moms who,
• 55:02
  you know, like all of us vaccinated our
• 55:04
  children, and we believed that what uh what
• 55:07
  our doctors were telling us, and you know,
• 55:09
  everyone was kind of whether you're a parent
• 55:11
  who vaccinated a child or a doctor who
• 55:13
  vaccinated many children or a policymaker like me
• 55:15
  who worked on policies to vaccinate millions of
• 55:18
  children.
• 55:20
  Um, all of us, you know, had a
• 55:22
  moment of awakening.
• 55:24
  And so I think that most people in
• 55:26
  the movement and the leaders in the movement
• 55:28
  have been very kind um and gracious to
• 55:31
  me as I've sort of come out with
• 55:33
  my awakening journey.
• 55:35
  And there have been also on the other
• 55:38
  side of that, that's not universally true, but
• 55:40
  there have been plenty of people who were
• 55:43
  angry, obviously, for understandable reasons about like why
• 55:45
  I didn't start talking earlier, or why I,
• 55:48
  you know, was so dumb and stupid back
• 55:50
  then in the White House.
• 55:53
  Um, or back in 2002 when I was
• 55:54
  talking to the moms who with children with
• 55:56
  autism.
• 55:58
  So, you know, there's a lot of people
• 56:00
  Of people that feel um, I think justified
• 56:01
  that feel um, I think justified in sort
• 56:03
  in sort of giving me grief about it.
• 56:03
  of giving me grief about it.
• 56:06
  And that's okay.
• 56:06
  And that's okay.
• 56:07
  Like I I wasn't really writing it for
• 56:07
  Like I wasn't really writing it for any
• 56:09
  any particular reaction.
• 56:09
  particular reaction.
• 56:10
  I was writing it because I think truth
• 56:10
  I was writing it because I think truth
• 56:12
  has its own inherent value and it's worth
• 56:12
  has its own inherent value and it's worth
• 56:13
  telling it.
• 56:13
  telling it.
• 56:14
  So I really I welcome all responses.
• 56:14
  So I really I welcome all responses.
• 56:19
  Well, we're coming to the end of the
• 56:19
  Well, we're coming to the end of the
• 56:21
  show, and and I uh again applaud you
• 56:21
  show, and and I uh again applaud you
• 56:23
  for we we've all had our wake up
• 56:23
  for we we've all had our wake up
• 56:25
  call one way or another, and uh it's
• 56:26
  call one way or another, and uh it's
• 56:27
  it's good.
• 56:28
  it's good to speak out and impacts are
• 56:30
  made that way.
• 56:33
  So um thanks for uh joining us, Katie.
• 56:37
  And uh I'll make sure to promote your
• 56:38
  Substack.
• 56:40
  Thank you so much, Jeff.
• 56:41
  It's really great to be with you and
• 56:42
  your audience.
• 56:44
  And thanks again for listening.
• 56:45
  I'm Jeff Lauterbach, and that's the Maha Lo
• 56:47
  Down.