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Selects: The Soul Train Episode · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's Chuck here.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: It's April twenty first, twenty twenty on our COVID timeline
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: here for the Saturday Trip down Memory Lane. This is
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: a really fun episode, so I'm very excited to recommend
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: this app from April twenty first, the Soul Train episode
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: where we took a fun look back at the great,
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: great TV show that was So.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Train.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: there's Charles w Chuck Bryan over there, and this is
• 0:43
  Speaker 4: stuff you should know. Not bad, let's hear yours. I
• 0:50
  Speaker 4: know you can do it.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: The Soul Train it's so much higher than that.
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: That was good, though, but you dropped it down into
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: your range and it's still was. You made it to
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: your own I think, is what I'm trying to say,
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: and I.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Like it, which is old white guy version.
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: So you're not old, You're just middle aged.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 1:10
  Speaker 4: Okay, sure, well let me ask you this, Chuck. Were
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: you aware of Soul Train while it was on?
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, then your Super Bowl?
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: I love Soul Train.
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: Sure, so I was a solid gold man myself. But
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: I can get on some Soul Train for sure, especially
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: like vintage stuff these days.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I've watched Solid Gold to be sure,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: an American Bandstand, But I was just a a rabid
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: consumer of popular culture and television and music growing up,
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: so before MTV came along and completely changed my life,
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: because that's all I watched was shows like Soul Train
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: were where I could because you know, often I couldn't
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: stay up to watch late night tea talk shows where
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: you see performances like this is where I got to
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: see live music before I could start go seeing live music.
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: Right, Oh, yeah, that was and that was a huge
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: draw of it for sure. Like the idea of just
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: being able to tune in on Saturday at eleven am,
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: depending on where you were and seeing like a somebody
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: like Marvin Gaye or Stevie Wonder perform like that was
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: that was a big deal, especially like you're saying, if
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: you were too young and fell asleep too early to
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: go to a proper show, that's right, but even more
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: than that, and like that was a huge, huge mark
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: that Soul Train left was just presenting that. But that
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: had been done before there was American band Stand. There
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: are all sorts of like kind of dance party TV shows.
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: So it didn't exactly pioneer in that sense, but what
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: it did pioneer in is that the people that was
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: presenting African Americans teenagers who were hip and their own
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: people and part of black culture, and presenting it in
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: a way that like was an apologetic that wasn't critical,
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: that did didn't portray it in some sort of negative
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: light or in a way that you know, was trying
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: to get white people to understand it. Just presenting it
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: as it was and celebrating it. That's where SoulTrain like
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: really broke through. And it's very very difficult to overstate
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: how revolutionary and groundbreaking SoulTrain was, especially for how simple
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: this show format was.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: Basically, Yeah, I mean, like you said, bandstand had been
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: around since nineteen fifty two, and this, you know, kind
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: of was known as the Black American Bandstand, and it
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: followed that format. It was, you know, people, a live
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: music performance, a host interviewing and talking to these people
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: these musicians afterward briefly, and then beyond that just awesome
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: music spinning on the turntable and amazing dancing, amazing outfits,
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: amazing hair styles, and just to celebrate of black culture.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: It was really really cool.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: And the point is made in this in this article
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: that they put together for us, but.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: It was it was definitely by.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: Black people and four black people, but it was an
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: introduction to black culture to white kids like me, little
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: eight year old Chuck in Stone Mountain, Georgia sitting around
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: watching the Soul Train dance line.
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I can imagine. It was mind blowing, Chuck, Like
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: I think it wasn't just you know, it wasn't like
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: you were necessarily sheltered where you were growing up. Whether
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: you were or not, it kind of doesn't matter. It
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: was that there there was no place for you to
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: be exposed to this prior to Soul Train, that if
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: you saw a black guy on TV, it was say
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: on the news and he was being arrested for something,
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: or they you know, he was involved in a protest
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: and the protest was kind of presented in a particularly negative,
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: agitated light, or he was a side on TV or
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: a servant or in some kind of goofy comedy or
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: something like that. Like in Soul Train and do that.
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: There was no there was no subscribing to all like
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: the preconceived notions that there have been before it was
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: just its own thing. It was like, hey, by the
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: way we've been you know, we have our own culture
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: over here. You guys have ignored all this time. We're
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: gonna put it on TV and show it often. If
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: you like it, awesome, if you don't get lost.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And Dave I thought it was kind of astute
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: that he said it was kind of like a lifestyle
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: brand before that was such a thing because these people
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: were influencers. What you saw on Soul Train, you wanted
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: to dance like that, You wanted to wear those clothes.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: If someone debuted a sweet move that you saw on
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: Saturday morning, you would practice that move in your living
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: room and then debut it at your club that night.
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: And there were like some pretty sweet moves that were
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: debuted on Soul Trained. The Sweetest we did an entire
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: episode on the Moonwalk, if you'll remember correctly, and that
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: was originally called the backslide that was created on Soul Train.
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: The robot, the rerun ding it.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Man, there's so much sweet roboting going on.
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, and that's where it came from. Apparently no
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: one did the robot, and like these were like basically
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: club kids who now had a place to do their
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: club stuff on TV and then go out to the
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: clubs later that night and do some more and like
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: come up with more stuff, and they'd come bring it
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: to SoulTrain again. And then kids would watch that. Kids,
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: college kids, adults would watch this and be like, this
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: is the coolest thing that's on TV right now, and
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: I want to do those dance moves too.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: Let's read a couple of these quotes that kind of
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: encapsulate how important of a show this was. One is
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: from philosopher, activists and Harvard professor Cornell West. He said,
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: I never missed it Saturday morning as a graduate at
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: a student at Princeton. I would see it wherever I
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: was available to the world. One of the great traditions
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: in American history, which is a history of soul music.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Soul music at its best, taught America, especially young Americans,
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: about color, how to be free, and how to love
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: in a deeper and better way. And this from common
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: the actor and rapper. Watching my babysitter get the opportunity
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: to go on Soul Train was like a dream come
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: true for her because Soul Train was the biggest thing
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: then for the black community. It gave ordinary everyday people
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: an opportunity to express themselves. It showed us that we
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: too have a place on TV.
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and I can't imagine what commons babysitter, How excited
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: she must have been to get to be on Soul Train.
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, like that must have been the biggest thing possible.
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: Like they said it was the hippus trip on television,
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: and like that was not much of an exaggeration, especially
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: at the time, especially when you compared it to like
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: American Bandstand at the time, which when Soul Train came along,
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: you said, bansand had been on since nineteen fifty two,
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: almost two decades by this time. SoulTrain comes along. And
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: there was a TV critic in nineteen seventy three who wrote,
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: I believe for the New York Times that comparing Soul
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: Train to the old American Bandstand is like comparing Champagne
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: to seltzer Burns. That had to hurt Dick Clark.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Oh, he did fine.
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: Well, as far as I could tell. Everything I've ever
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: heard about him. He was literate, so he very well
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: could have read that, and if not, somebody may have
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: read it to him, and it hurt his feelings, there's
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: no way it didn't.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: So we can't talk about SoulTrain without talking about Don Cornelius. No,
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Don Cornelius was the host and creator of SoulTrain and
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: owner and owner, which is huge. Like this guy owned
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: his own TV show, which was not a very common
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: thing to happen, still is not a common thing.
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: They usually put him in league with Desi Arnetz, who
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: owned I Love Lucy, and Mike Douglas, who owned the
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: Mike Douglas Show. Most of the even like the creators
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: of a show, you didn't own the show that you created,
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: like you like have some sort of deal with somebody
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: to help produce it, or a network has exclusive rights
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: to it, or somebody else at least owns some other
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: piece of it. This was one hundred percent Don Cornelius's jam.
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: And there's a legend that kind of goes along with
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: that that James Brown came on very early on in
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: like nineteen seventy two or three, and he was like,
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: so who's backing you on this? Man? And dot thank you.
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: I can't do a very good James Brown, and Don
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: Cornelius says, it's just me, James, And apparently James Brown
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: thought that he didn't fully understand the question, so he
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: kind of asked it again. Didn't think to rephrase it
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: in different words, just ask the same question. Don Cornelius
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: answers them the same way. He says, it's just me, James,
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: like he got what he's saying, and he was telling
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: him this is mine, one hundred percent mine. Nobody else
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: owns it. It's totally my show. And I don't think
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: anybody else could have done it like Don Cornelius did.
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: He was perfect for Soul Train, and I think the
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: reason why is because it came from him, like it
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: was his creation and his baby.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Should we take a break.
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: I'm a little worked up, so yeah maybe so.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: All right, Uh, you're gonna work on your rerun dance.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: We're gonna take a little break, and we'll go back
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: and talk about young Don Cornelius right after this. I
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: want to learn about terms horn and college, howadactyle, how
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: to take a berg all about is gone.
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: That's a little hunt.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: We should know.
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: Word up, Jerry.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: So, Young Don was born in Chicago on the South Side,
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: in the neighborhood of Bronzeville, known as the Black Metropolis.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: He was the son of a postal worker and was
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: a marine. He joined the Marines after high school, fought
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: in South Korea. After that, comes home to Chicago, sells
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: cars for a little while, sells insurance for a little while,
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: and then says, I want to.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Be a cop.
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: I want to be a popo.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Yep, And he was a popo.
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: Also in there somewhere. He married, I believe, his high
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: school sweetheart and has two kids. So by the time
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: he's a cop, he's married with two kids at home,
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: two sons. And one day there's a story, an urban
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: legend that, as far as I know, is true, let
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: me smell it. Well, then it's not an urban legend,
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: it's just a story. It could be a true urban legend. Okay,
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: we're going to come up with an entirely different category
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: right now. Chall right, So Don Cornelius, Officer Cornelis pulls
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: the guy over, and that guy happened to be the
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: news director, Roy Wood for a local AM radio station
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: wvo N, And as Roy Wood is getting this ticket
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: written up by Officer Cornelius, he's like, hey, man, your
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: voice is astounding, because if you've never heard Don Cornelius's voice,
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: press pause right now, go on to YouTube. Just listen
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: to some soul trained intros from him. He was an
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: amazingly hip cat with one of the best voices of
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: all time. Yeah, led Barry White.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: He also pulled over the guy and said license and registration, baby.
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so that helped. Yeah, do it as Sammy Davis
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: Junior pulling him over.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Now, hey, bab, give me your license and registration.
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: That's so good. So anyway, the guy like is like,
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: you have a really great voice. Have you ever considered
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: going into radio? And Don Cornelius says, I haven't until now,
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: but I'm going to give it some thought. And not
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: only does he give it some thought, it's not clear
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: whether he actually gave Roy Wood the ticket or not,
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: but he actually quits being a cop, goes and takes
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: a three month broadcasting course with a wife and two
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: sons at home. So this is a pretty big risk
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: on his part, and tries out for a part as
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: a radio announcer at WVN and gets hired after a
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: three month course because his voice was that great and
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: because his persona was that hip too.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: So yes, Don Cornelius, the voice of gold the Golden Tonsils.
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: Is that what they called the velvet fog. That was
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: melt or may oh okay, and I just get those
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: too confused.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: And Noel on movie Crush his nickname is Smokey Velvet.
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: Oh, that's nice.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure where that came from. Maybe I made
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: it up. Smokey gullet, smoky velvet.
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: Oh, smoky velvet, smoky gullet.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: That's really gross.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: So he becomes a DJ at the radio station, like
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: you said, and then is hired as a reporter, a
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: news reporter on TV for w CiU TV. He covered sports,
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: he covered civil rights stuff. He had a show for
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: the news program called a blacks View of the News,
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: which is, you know something you could only get away
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: with in the nineteen sixties I.
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: Think early seventies by nut. Oh, yeah, you're right, it
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: would have been the sixties. Sorry.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: And he interviewed Jesse Jackson, he interviewed Martin Luther King.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: Still djaying at night, and he hosted the series of
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: house parties and club appearances all over Chicago. And he
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: would take the train to get to these places. So
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: he called these parties the soul Train. That's where the
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: name came from.
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, So he's like a TV broadcaster by day radio
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: DJ and sockhap DJ by night comes up with this
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: soul train idea. And again, so this is like in
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: his first year after taking a three month broadcasting course,
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: after pulling over a radio executive who told him he
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: had a good voice, and he's like, you know what,
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: I'm happy doing news and civil rights reporting, and I'm
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: part of this group called the Good Guys, these black
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: DJs out of Chicago that were kind of known as
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: the Arbiters of Cool. But he said that he had
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: He later said that he had this burning desire to
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: see black people depicted on television in a positive light,
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: and he decided that the best way to do that
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: was to kind of take these parties, these sockhops and
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: just kind of cool Chicago house parties that he was
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: DJing and just put him on TV. That like that
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: would basically be enough that if people just saw how
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: cool these parties weren't, how fun they were, and how
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: much like how what a celebration of like black culture
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: they were just in and of themselves, that that could
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: be a TV show by itself. And that was the
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: original soul train.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: That's right and very key.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: He went to his TV station W CiU and said,
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: I want to shoot a pilot for this thing, baby,
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: and they said, uh, sure, but we're not going to
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: front the money, and he said, I'll pay for it.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Little did he know what a fortuitous move that was.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I think had they funded it, they would
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: have had a real claim to it legally. But he
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: put up four hundred bucks of his own money shot
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: a pilot. It didn't look that great, it was in
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: black and white, but it was a big hit immediately.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: And he said, not because it was wonderful, but because
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: it was theirs.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: It belonged to the black people. Yeah.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: A year later he moves to LA and said, I'm
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: going to do the show for real here. This is
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: where it became nationally syndicated, which you know, I don't
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: know when we talked about TV syndication, but that's basically
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: when it's not owned and run on a major network,
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: but you sell it to each local TV station in
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: whatever city.
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I don't know what we would have talked about
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: that on either, but I would I think we should
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: do an entire episode on TV syndication. I'll bet it
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: was world changing. Sure, So when he moved into Los
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: Angeles in nineteen seventy one that Black and White Soul Train.
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: It used to be on every weekday. They continued that,
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: so it was two things. It was a full color
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: nationally syndicate hated television show out of la but it
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: was also a black and white local weekly or weekday
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: television show out of Chicago at the same time. For
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: like a good five years, they were both running at
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: the same time, and so Don Cornelius was at the
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: helm of both. So on Fridays he would fly out
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: to La shoot four episodes, two on Saturday, two on Sunday,
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: and then fly back in time to be there for
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: the afternoon black and white Monday episode of the Chicago
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: Local Soul Train.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Amazing working hard.
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: He was working hard. Yeah, it's right.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: So it was a very popular show right out of
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: the gate, but advertising was always kind of a struggle
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: because mainstream brands didn't quite know what to make of it.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: They didn't this is kind of the first show of
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: its kind, but that did open the door for Johnson Products,
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: another black owned Chicago business from husband and wife team
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: George and Joeanne Johnson that they started in nineteen fifty four.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: And these commercials are.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: So great too.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: They sold beauty and hair care products to African Americans.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: So Afroshine and Ultraschine were the two big ones and
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: the two big commercials you see, and they became as
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: much as part of the fabric of the show almost
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: as like the Soul Train liner, the performers or anything else.
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: Really yeah, and I mean, like I think in a
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: large part because they were they were like our stamps
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: dot Com, like one of the earliest and longest running sponsors. Right.
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: So when they came on, what they were promoting with
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: like with Afrochine and Ultraschine was radical and that it's
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: saying like just let your hair grow naturally. These are
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: hair products for African Americans to use when they're growing
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: their hair naturally, not following like white beauty standards. Right.
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: So it was like a perfect sponsor for SoulTrain, which
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: is a celebration of black culture. For itself, the Johnson
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: family of products were promoting black culture and it's like
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: natural State too, so it was like just perfect go
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: hand in hand. I think they kind of worked with
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: each other but also were important independent of one another.
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: But when you put them together, it was like greater
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: than some of its parts even.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was. It was a big deal culturally.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Not only was it a big hit, but like people
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: like Jesse Jackson said, Don Cornelius is right up there
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: with any civil rights leader of our generation. He gave
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: people a chance to feel good about themselves.
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: That's pretty great.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: And like I said, I was a little white kid
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: watching it. There's this lady, Madeline Weeks, who is a
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: fashion editor at GQ. She was a little white girl
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: in Virginia, and she said, I watched Soul Train religiously
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: every week. Loved it from beginning to end. Even the
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: Afroshine and Ultrachine ads were heaven. Had the funkiest, most stylish,
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: sexiest dancers. Everybody looked like they were having the best time.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: All the girls look gorgeous. Who wouldn't want to look
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: like that. I was just a little kid living in
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: the countryside in Virginia and I live for it.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: Does something else, it's pretty great.
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: Well, you want to take a break and then get
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: back into what it was like to watch.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Soul Train and be on it. You know, I was
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: a guest.
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: Yes, I can't wait. We're gonna debut that clip live,
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: all right, let's do it.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: I want to learn about a terri sort and college
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: rd Actole, how to take a perfect bout is Gone?
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: That's another hunt, The Sane Everything.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: And John.
• 20:23
  Speaker 5: Word up, Jerry, Okay, Chuck, So we're back.
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: There was one little thing that I wanted to include
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: about w c i U, the original Chicago home of
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: Soul Train. Apparently it was like a ragtag U HF station,
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: an independent station. And have you ever seen that that
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: movie U HF with weird al Nope, it's so good,
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: but it actually is not too far off from w CiU.
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: They would play Lithuanian and Polish language talk shows Amos
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: and Andy Bullfights from Mexico like these are they just
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: had this weird assemblage of TV shows, But then they're
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: they're in house. Programming was made by like this ragtag
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: kind of group of inexperienced people. And there's a I
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: read in the Chicago Reader this kind of oral history
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: of the local version of SoulTrain. The head cameraman at
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: w CiU had strabusmiths and couldn't use the viewfinder in
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: the camera. It was like that kind of ragtag group
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: that just kind of got it done somehow.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: I just love that little tidbit.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: That's pretty cool.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, So if you watch SoulTrain, the first
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: thing that you would see when the show starts is
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: that classic animated intro of that freight train rolling into
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: the city.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: So cool, so iconic.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: Then you see Don Cornelius, always dressed to the nines,
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: the man, coolest cat maybe to ever be on television.
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: We make Billy d weep with jealousy.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: He was because he was a DJ previously he was.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: He just had that DJ lingo down. Yeah, you know,
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: they put in one of the things, it's going to
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: be a stone Gas honey, like all that seventies sort
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: of shaft like talk was just who Don Cornelius was.
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: Let me, let me try my hand at it. You ready, Okay,
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: it's going to be a stone gas honey. Okay, that
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: sounded like a CB trucker from the seventies somehow interesting.
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: It's going to be a stone gas honey. I don't
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: know what my problem is.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: Hey, not bad, don't lie to me, Chuck, Josh Cornelius.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: You had your musical guest, like we said, just like
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: American Bandstand. I think sometimes they lip synced and sometimes
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: they really sang.
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: On the lip sync to cross the board.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it kind of depends on who the artist is too,
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: Patty LaBelle, Barry White, Aretha Franklin, Stevie Wonder, James Brown,
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: Al Green, like just a murderer's row of rhythm and
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: blues and soul performers. I think Gladys Knight and the
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Pips was on the first syndicated episode.
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and like that was a huge favor that he
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: called in and Gladys totally delivered by being on that
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: first nationally syndicated episode because it drew a lot of attention,
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: and apparently from that point on he was he was
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: always very deferential, saying, you know, if it weren't for Gladys,
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: none of this would be here right now. Oh that's nice, Yeah,
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: it was pretty Cooliver. Have you ever eaten a Gladys
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: Knight's House of Chicken and waffles?
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: What do you think?
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: I'm thinking you probably have multiple times, but we've never
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: discussed it.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: I mean when I lived in LA I was a
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: regular at Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles. But yeah, Gladys Knight
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: does it right as well.
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: Yes she does. Have you ever had the smothered chicken there?
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: I don't think so. Is it like gravy or something. Yes,
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: and it is even better than the chicken and waffles.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Really, yes, I can't not get the chicken and waffle.
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: So get both.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, just get both.
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: There's no reason to hold back at Gladys Knight's House
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: of Chicken and waffle.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: And eat a little bit of both and take the
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: rest of home, sure, or eat it all.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, so Soul Train, of course that the musical performances
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: were great and classic and iconic, but it's the dancing
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: that is what it's really known for. They got they
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: scouted out some of these dancers. They would go to
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: the clubs, and they did this on American Bandstand and
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: other shows too that had dancers. They would go find
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: like the flyest dancers in the clubs, invite them to
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: be on the show, and everyone else had to audition,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Like thousands of people would line up and audition with
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: their dance moves to be a soul trained dancer.
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and like again, like Common's babysitter was saying, like
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: that was a big deal to be picked. And some
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: were recruited like you're saying, from the clubs, and those
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: those particular dancers were usually so good that they would
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: rise to like national prominence, like the camera just couldn't
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: avoid them. They also were no slouches at learning how
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: to play to the camera too when the camera was
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: on them or anywhere near them. But one of the
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: ways that everybody shine too, whether you've got a lot
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: of camera time or not, was in the the Soul
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: Train Line, which became a really regular feature of each
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: episode where everybody just kind of be clapping and standing
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: on two sides, and then a couple would come down,
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: usually a couple, sometimes it was solo would come down
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: and do some crazy dance moves and really get a
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: chance to show off and kind of capture the attention
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: of the viewing audience.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you've never gone on YouTube and looked at
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Soul Train Line videos, first of all, I'm surprised that
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: you exist as a human. And secondly, just do it
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: and then look up at the clock two hours later,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: because you will be able to do nothing but watch
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: those video clips.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: It's amazing.
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: And what's cool about it too, is you can put
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: it to any kind of super cool music and it
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: sounds really great and looks really great.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: What you like, and mute it and put on different music.
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: No, no, but other people have like put their own
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: tracks or other people's tracks. Oh really, video of soul
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: train and it works really well.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Oh interesting, Yeah, I like the real music.
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: Sure, real music isn't bad either.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the Jungle Boogie one is really good in particular,
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: that is a good one. So they'd filmed four episodes
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: in a weekend. Apparently the dancers were worked pretty hard,
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: and Cornelius was pretty demanding of them.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: You couldn't choot them, you couldn't curse.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: His mantra was be on time, be tactful, be creative,
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: be funky, and be yourself.
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they were unpaid too. Typically, I guess you would
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: be paid if you were dancing to a performer, but
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: if you were part of the segments that it was
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: just them playing music and people were dancing, you were unpaid.
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: I think they'd feed you because again, you're doing two
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: episodes over two days, so four total, like you were saying,
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: and I mean, you're dancing like the whole time. And
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: I'm guessing that these things probably took longer than an hour.
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: They didn't just do an hour and that was it,
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: with no retakes or edits or anything like that. So
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: I'm not sure how long it actually took to film
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: an actual episode, but you were basically dancing the entire time,
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: two episodes back to back, twice over a weekend.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: I bet it was fun too.
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: Though I'm sure it was fun too. I was thinking
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: at the impression that it was a little competitive. Although
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: there's a guy who frequently gets overshadowed by Don Cornelis,
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: but was known as his right hand man. His name
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: was Clinton Ghent, and he was one of the the
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: kind of co creators of Soul Training, or he was
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: there from the beginning in Chicago, and he had a
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: real eye for finding those dancers in the clubs. He
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: was one of the ones who would go scout dancers,
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: but not only of finding people who had like really
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: crazy good moves and getting them to come on to
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: Soul Train, but of putting all sorts of different dancers
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: who would normally be pretty competitive with one another, finding
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: groups that would kind of gel together like a family,
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: so that when you go back and watch Soul Train episodes,
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: or when you were watching it when they were coming
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: on the first time, you weren't like sitting there seeing
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: like dancers like kind of sniping one another. Backbiting or
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: pushing each other out of the way. It did kind
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: of have this really family vibe every episode, and apparently
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: that was the work of that Clinton Ghent guy who
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: just really knew how to put people together.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that GQ editor really nailed it.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Like it just looked like it looked like a party
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: you wanted to be at, like everyone was.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Having a good time.
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: So some of the some of these dancers went on
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: to be famous. We're kind of discovered there. Jody Wattley,
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: the singer. She started out as a teenager on Soul
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: Train and Don Cornelius was like, you're super talented, I'm
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: a businessman. I'm going to pair you with this other guy,
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: Jeffrey Daniel, and you guys should record music together. And
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: that little group went on to be Shallamar. Of course,
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy seven they got together, and then.
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: After Shallamar, Jody Wattley went on to become Jody Wattley.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: You mentioned rerun from What's Happening, Nick Cannon, Carmen Electra,
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: which I didn't know that she started out there.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: That kind of surprised me.
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: I didn't either. Her real name is Tara Lee Patrick.
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: Did you know that.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I did or not. I know
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: it wasn't Carmen Electra.
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, it's not that, although she looks way more
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: like a Carmen Electra than a Tara Lee Patrick. Yeah, agreed,
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: doesn't look at all Irish or Southern.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: Rosie Perez was maybe one of the biggest names to
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: come out of SoulTrain. This was in the eighties, because
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: you know, you think about the salad days of SoulTrain
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: and you'd probably think of the seventies, but the eighties
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: were pretty big and it went all the way to
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: two thousand and six. But in the eighties is when
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: the hip hop influence came on, and Rosie Perez brought
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: that Brooklyn, New York City hip hop flavor. And if
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: you go back and watch some of her stuff on SoulTrain,
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: it's like the dancing school. It's much different than that
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: sort of seventies groove. It was that sort of New
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: York City hip hop style.
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, she does it like the beginning of what does
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: it do the right thing? Yeah, that's her dancing at
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: the beginning of it, right.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that was like straight up SoulTrain. So what she
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: did on SoulTrain, which is very much not like what
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: they were doing in La too. So she kind of
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: rose to prominence as a Soul Train dancer very quickly,
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: and Don Cornelius apparently was like, hey, I want to
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: lock you into a contract, and Rosie Perez, being smart,
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: street wise, Rosie Perez said that's great, I'll show it
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: to my lawyer. And apparently Don Cornelius didn't like this,
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: and as the story goes, he grabbed Rosie Perez, which
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: is not what you do when somebody says that they
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: want their lawyer to look at a contract you want
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: them to lock into, or for any reason really, and
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: to get him all over, she threw a piece of
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: the fried chicken she was eating at the time right
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: at his head and hit him in the face.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: That's how the story goes.
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: That's how Rosie Perez tells it for sure.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know we should mention too. That is
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: not cool at all.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: And while we're praising Don Cornelius for his talents as
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: a host, he did later in life when he was
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: a bit older. Was was he arrested or was he
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: just charged? I think he was charged with domestic violence
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: against his Russian Ukrainian wife.
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: Yes, he was at least charged. I don't know if
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: he was victed, but there was a Yeah, he got
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: into an entailment because of that, at least accusation that
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: he had abused her and then also apparently intimidated a
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: witness into changing their story. He was charged with that
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: as well. It was from what I understand though, this
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: all took place over a single night and possibly within
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: a very short period of time, over single night. Not
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: at all trying to justify or excuse it, but I
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: don't know the story behind it at all, but I
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: think it's worth pointing out like Don Cornelius was not
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: just as straight up like nothing but a smooth, cool cat.
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: He was a complex human being who had faults as
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: well too. Yeah, inflaws and all that. I mean, grabbing
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: Rosie Perez is bad enough alone.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: Sure you know what you get, You get the old
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: chicken wing to the forehead.
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah you do. You would think, like even before she
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: was a star, you'd know, just hanging out with her
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: a little bit, not to mess with Rosy Perez.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: No, I would never mess with Rosie Perez.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: He didn't know that his signature sign off was on
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Don Cornelius and as always in partying, we wish you love,
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: peace and soul.
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there were a couple of other people who kind
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: of rose to prominence too. Cheryl Song she was the
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: first Asian dancer on SoulTrain, and she said she had
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: to really kind of prove herself that she wasn't just
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: like the token non African American dancer, that she was
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: actually a really good dancer, and she did. And then
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: Jermaine Stewart, who you might recognize as the singer of
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: We Don't Have to Take Our Clothes Off, and that's
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: pretty cute because he came back home and performed it
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: on SoulTrain in nineteen eighty six, and when Don Cornelius
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: was introducing him, he was saying he made good and
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: we're all very proud of him.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: And like you mentioned, the Irish Carmen Electra, who I
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: guess stood out because she was river dancing on SoulTrain
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: and everyone was like, what is that?
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: What is that? But then everybody wanted to do it
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: because it was Carmen Electra doing it.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: So SoulTrain was so popular. And Dick Clark, I guess
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: didn't feel like he had enough money as a TV
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: mogul and an icon on American Bandstand. So he went, hey,
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: I'm going to start my own Soul Train and try
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: and bury Don Cornelius, right, and I'm going to call
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: it Soul Unlimited.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: I'm going to put it on ABC. And it was.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: You can see clips of it on YouTube.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: It didn't last long, but it was a literal ripoff
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: of Soul Train. And you might say Soul Train was
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: a ripoff of American Bandstand, fair enough, but for him
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: to go after the African American market like that, I
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: don't think was very cool.
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: No, it isn't very cool. I could see Dick Clark
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: being a little blind to the larger implications of it.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Well.
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: And you know, I don't know if if he was
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: involved in it's canceling or not, but you know, some
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: black leaders did get it canceled. They started a campaign
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: to say, like, no, just leave this one alone. I
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: don't know if how easily Clark went along with her
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: or not. I like to think he was like, oh, okay,
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: I see the era of my ways now and dropped it.
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: But yeah, only a few episodes came out either way,
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: SoulTrain was left to like stand on its own. You
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: know yeah, which and I think rightfully so too.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there were other performers. Later on they would
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: have white performers. David Bowie very famously was on there.
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: Oh no, did you watch that?
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: He did did ah, it was awful, did a pretty
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: bad lip sync job, which Cornelius gave him kind of
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: teased him about. And then Elton John who was who
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: was always had a pretty big following in the African
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: American community.
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: I know that, did you?
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, he wrote. He wrote about it in his
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: autobiography that I read last year.
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: That's cool.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: I think it started when Aretha Franklin covered burned Down
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: the Mission. If I'm not mistaken, Okay, is that the
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: one she recorded. I think that's the way it went down.
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: I've never heard of that song before.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: What is wrong with you? You've never heard burn Down the Mission?
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: I don't think so. I'm not the biggest Elton John fan.
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: I mean, I'm fine with him, but I really don't
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: like a lot of his seventies stuff, like a lot.
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: I really don't like it. Wow, But I like his
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: any stuff, like the whole I'm still standing thing.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, it's good.
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: It was burned Down the Mission before that.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, that was that was a nice My follow.
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: Up question is what what what problem did he have
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: with the mission? He didn't write it, Okay, Bernie Toppin
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: wrote all his lyrics. Oh I see now I am
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: a Bernie Toppin fan.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: You're a national treasure.
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: So Elton John was on a couple of times, and
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: it's pretty sweet if you look at the one. I'm
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: not sure if it was the Philadelphia Freedom one or I.
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: Hate that song or the other one.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: It's such a good song.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: But he they you know, he takes questions and you
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: can tell he's kind of shy and a little nervous,
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: and he takes some questions from the from the people,
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: from the dancers and stuff, which was kind of cool.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: But it's just very sweet to see how nervous he was.
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, because he's known for being a humble, humble spirit,
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: is he No have you ever seen that the documentary
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: they made or he self made or no, his partner made.
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: His partner was the only one he would let, you know,
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: fallow him around with the camera, which is pretty understandable.
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: But he came out in the last like I don't know,
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: decade or less.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the tantrums and tierras.
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: I think, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was great, man,
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: I loved it.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's good. I like that Rocketman movie a lot too.
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: I have not seen that. I saw it. I saw
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: it over someone else's shoulders on a plane.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: You wouldn't like it, I didn't.
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: I know, it didn't look like anything I would like.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: No, if you don't like Elton John, you wouldn't like
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: the movie about Elton John.
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: No.
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: And again, sir Elton, I have no problem with you personally.
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: It's just that that period through seventies, the seventies, like
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: Crocodile Rock, the one about like Philadelphia Freedom.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: You know, all those bad seventies albums Madman Across the
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: Water and Captain Fantastic and by yelbrick Row, those are
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: all terrible.
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: Exactly. I feel understood.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: Check thank you.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: So the eighties come along and nineteen eighty three Don
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: Cornelius has brain surgery, takes a little time off, he
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: comes back. SoulTrain has changed their look a little bit
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: to try and fit with kind of what's going on
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: at the time, with like Whitney Houston and people like that.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: And then hip hop and rap come along and apparently
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: Don Cornelius is not a big fan.
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: Uh yeah, I think I read I can't remember. I
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: read a really great article in Dazed about it, or
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: there's another pretty good one that was a review of
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: the recent TV biopic about him and SoulTrain on The Guardian,
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: and it basically explained it like that Don Cornelius was
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: like a mid century integration minded black businessman and that
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: he and his ilk and generation they had been working toward, like,
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: you know, getting a piece of the pie that didn't
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: necessarily it wasn't the white pie. It was the pie
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: that white people controlled. And if you were you know,
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: if you if you made your way to get a
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: piece of this that like you could you could be
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: black and still enjoy the good life. And that hip
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: hop reminded him of everything that he and his generation
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: had kind of tried to work beyond and pasted and
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: to integrate, and that to him it was a step backwards.
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: So he wasn't vibing on it at all. My own
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: personal take is that he was a smooth customer and
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: he appreciated smoothness, and hip hop, especially eighties hip hop,
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: was the opposite of smooth, and so he was not
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: vibing on it at all, and he even referred to
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: himself as an old guy sometimes when he was interviewing
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: you know, some of the hip hop artists who came
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: on Soul Train in the eighties.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I watched one of the Public Enemy clips and
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: it was weird. Afterward he like he basically ignores Chuck
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: D and like talks only to Flavor Flave.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: And then finally turns to Chuck It was like, and now,
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: Chuck D.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: He said, you must feel so blessed to have have
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: someone as talented as Flavor as your partner. What really,
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: it was really weird, and Chuck D was like, yeah,
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: you know, he's quite a character, as you can see. Yeah,
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: I just I don't know. It really came off as
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: like Don Cornelius doesn't understand this. I'm not dissing Flave,
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: but like Chuck D was like the he was the
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: leader of that band, you know.
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he was the brains behind the outfit for sure.
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: And I mean like, yeah, Flavor Flaves just like he's
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: he's like fills in the kind of hardness of Chuck D. Yeah,
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: I don't Yeah, if you think Public Enemy, it's definitely
• 40:54
  Speaker 4: Flavor Flavor and Chuck D. But it's Chuck D.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what I mean.
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: And then Flavor Flave.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was definitely a strange interview because I thought,
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: finally he's going to talk to Chuck D. And he's like,
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: you must feel so good about having this guy as
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: your partner.
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: Which one was that after? Because they were on at
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: least twice on the regular show by my count, and
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: then once on the Soul Train Awards at least you
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: don't remember. So it's not like he wasn't smart enough
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: to know that they were big and should be on anyway,
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: whether he liked him or not. But they did they
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: can't trust it in nineteen ninety one, and they did
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: Rubble without a Pause in nineteen eighty seven, and I
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: could not find the interview segment. I just saw, like
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: the performance, No, both like really great.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: Well, it was very sweet and actually it would have
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: had to been the nineties one because afterward Flavor Flave
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: asked for a a moment of silence for the passing
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: of Miles Davis and Red Fox.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: And they take a moment of silence.
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: That's awesome, h it was cool. So and that's actually
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: just in case we haven't gotten this across enough yet
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: Soul Train again, was it never got away from like
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: it's black roots, like it never sold out or anything
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: like that. Like it was, like, that makes perfect sense
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: that they would include that part. They wouldn't just edit
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: that out in the episode that they published. Yeah, that
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: was just part of it. Even as late as the
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: early nineties.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, in the early nineties is when Don Cornelius finally
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: had to step down. May tenth, nineteen ninety three was
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: his final episode. He passed it on to the younger generation.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: It went all the way to two thousand and six
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: and became the longest running syndicated show in TV history.
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, thirty five seasons amazing and those younger that younger
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: generation that he handed the reins over to. Some of
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: the temporary hosts included Jamie Fox got his start, Tyra
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: Banks and Shamar Moore from Criminal Minds. He was a
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: long time stand in host. Really, Yeah, he's big time manh.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: I don't know who that is.
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: I don't Watchdal Minds either, but you've seen enough like
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: ads for Criminal Minds that you would recognize. I'm sure.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: Very Sadly, Don Cornelius took his own life. He was
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: suffering from Alzheimer's and apparently he was having a lot
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: of seizures and just in a pretty bad way physically,
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: and his son said that that was the reason why he.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: Took his own life.
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, Puss. He'd also sold the rights i think
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: to Soul Train too, and it seems like things kind
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: of started to go downhill for him around then, I
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: think in two thousand and eight.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: But yeah, apparently it was a really big surprise to
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: everybody who knew him that he died by suicide, that
• 43:41
  Speaker 4: that was not the perceived outcome for him, I think. Yeah,
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: but his legacy lives on. Like you said, I mean,
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: the thirty five seasons the longest running syndicated television show
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: of all time. In and of itself, it's an incredible achievement,
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: but also to be like a cornerstone of like introducing
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: black culture as black culture to the larger culture as
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: a whole in white culture huge is Yeah. I mean,
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: that's about as big an accomplishment as you can make.
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: It's like Jesse Jackson said, he was as important as
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: any civil rights leader.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Yep, you know.
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: So that's Don Cornelius and Soul Train. That's how ed
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: if you want to know more about that. You don't
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: need to know anything else. Just start go watching clips
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: of Soul Train and you will be a happier person
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: than you were before you started.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, get ready for some sick robot action.
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: It's so great. And rerun too. You can't forget about
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: rerun fred Berry.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: No, that's sweet.
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: Well, since we talked about fred Berry, that means everybody.
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: Obviously it's time for listener mail.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: This is about Iron Maiden.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: Hey, guys, listen to your short stuff on six sixty
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: six and loved it more so for Josh's thoughts on
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: Iron Maiden, hardest working band of business seeing them twice.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: I've been a Maiden fan for about fifteen years, and
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: I got to say Josh was right on the money
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: when he said Power Slave was the album to listen
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: to if you've never really given them a chance. So chuck,
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: whip out that old bean bag, roll up a fatty,
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: crack open a cold one, and crank up some Maiden.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: You'll be glad you did. Also, just want to say
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: thank you both for the awesome work you do. I'm spewing,
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: which must be Australian for angry, he says, I'm spewing
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: because I couldn't get to your show when you came
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: to Perth.
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: I think, so, yeah, yeah, you missed a good show
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: that I was thinking about how cool that town was
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: the other day.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Perth was cool.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Your discussion and delivery of interesting, exciting topics week after
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: week transmute information and understanding into very enjoyable entertainment into
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: my ear holes, bringing much joy not just to my
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: commute but.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: To my work life.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: Lots of love from Mandura, Western Australia, and that is
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: from Tie Ty.
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: I like this person.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: First of all, Tie says that I'm right, which I love. Yeah,
• 46:03
  Speaker 4: likes Iron Maiden, loves Iron Maiden. You could say, and
• 46:06
  Speaker 4: it is upset that they missed our show.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: We'll be back.
• 46:11
  Speaker 4: Sure we will be Hey, you know, we're like number
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: one in Australia as far as podcasts go.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: Right now, I heard that. Man, they're practically begging for
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: us to come back.
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: We'll come back and we'll definitely go to Perth again.
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: So don't worry, Ty, we'll be there. Just keep an
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: ear up, keep your ear holes out.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: If you want to be cool like Tye and get
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: in touch with us, you can do that, You can
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: send us an email to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.
• 46:38
  Speaker 5: You Know Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: You listen to your favorite shows.