Latest / Kenny Wallace Media / Atlanta Recap, Classic Qualifying Stories, & Keelan Harvick Goes Toyota | Mark Martin Archive #7

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Atlanta Recap, Classic Qualifying Stories, & Keelan Harvick Goes Toyota | Mark Martin Archive #7 · Kenny Wallace Media

0:00
Hello everybody. It is episode 7 of the Mark
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Martin Archive Podcast. I'm Charlie Marlow.
0:05
There's Mark Martin, there is Matt Martin.
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And before we get to all the the NASCAR and racing, I have to ask
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you guys, did you watch any of Team USA taking down Canada for
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the gold medal in the Olympics? But I'm thinking, Mark, for you,
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that had been like a 5:00 AM start right out in California.
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I didn't watch but I've heard a lot about it.
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I didn't watch it either. I saw the photos though.
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Yeah, unbelievable. I kind of like these sporting
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events that you can wake up and and watch them at 7:00 in the
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morning Central time here. So and again, before we get to
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the the Atlanta weekend, I did want to start with a trivia
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question. I think you guys, I'm guessing
0:44
you'll both get it. But with Tyler Reddick going
0:47
back-to-back, I have to ask you guys.
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So Mark and Matt, do you know how many times Mark Martin went
0:54
back-to-back winning NASCAR Cup races in his career, in your
0:59
career? Well, there's an issue there
1:02
depends on so like 95 and 97. So that's that's twice he did
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it. But then in 93 he won four in a
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row. So I don't know if you can count
1:16
that as actually back-to-back because it's I don't know how
1:21
you want to count that. But there's definitely those
1:23
times and I think that I think that's all of them.
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So I guess at least three times. So, Mark, now I I brought this
1:33
up with AI, so maybe AI is wrong so you guys can correct me and
1:37
AI. But yeah, they counted 93 with
1:40
the four wins in a row. So Watkins Glen, Michigan,
1:43
Bristol and Darlington. Is that correct?
1:45
They say that's three, that's three back to backs.
1:49
Then they have 98, two wins in a row, which is Las Vegas and
1:53
Texas in March of 98. So was that correct?
1:57
That's incorrect. You know, that's the thing was
2:00
crazy about AI, you know, like, I don't know, like it's supposed
2:04
to be super smart and I guess it is, but anytime I've ever seen
2:08
it used most of the time with this racing statistics stuff,
2:12
like it's wrong. Like so I I don't know.
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But so, yeah, there's 93 'cause he won four in a row and then in
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95 he won back-to-back Charlotte and or North Wilkesboro and
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Charlotte and then 97 Sonoma and Talladega.
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So I believe that's that's all the times he went back-to-back
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in the Cup Series. All right, there's a good lesson
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there kids out there, we can never trust AI.
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You always have to make sure it's accurate.
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All right, so there we go. So now to the Atlanta weekend.
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And I mentioned obviously Tyler Reddick goes back-to-back.
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We'll get to all the races, but I'll just tee you up Mark first.
2:52
Just give us your thoughts on Hot Lana.
2:57
It was a great racing weekend, but you know, both races on
3:01
Saturday were fantastic, good races.
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But I got to say the show on Saturday was, you know, was Raja
3:13
Carruth. I mean, Raja was the show.
3:17
I couldn't believe the car control.
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I don't, you know, half a dozen times he for sure should, should
3:26
have crashed. He had that thing crossed up and
3:29
he was a show. So kudos to Junior Motorsports
3:34
for giving him a shot in a great race car and he's sure proven
3:39
that he's deserving of it. So I thought that was cool and
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and then of course, the the the race Sunday was a great race.
3:49
It was a good race and that's all I can say for it's like 2
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that's, you know, 2 weekends in a row that not only I but
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everybody, you know, all race fans, the majority of race fans,
4:03
let's say, have really had a good time.
4:07
It's been been awesome to watch and I'm looking forward to the
4:11
next ones you mark. My first thought was, you know,
4:16
is, hey, when was the last time the Daytona 500 winner won the
4:21
second race of the season as well?
4:25
You know, I, I don't know. I mean, that's, that's got to be
4:28
a long time ago. I can't think of who, who has
4:32
done that before. I know someone has certainly,
4:35
but I don't know when. I saw an ex that maybe Matt
4:39
Kenseth did that but I didn't remember it.
4:42
OK. Yeah, I want to say, and I'll
4:45
look this up, I want to say they said it's happened 4 times and I
4:49
remember Matt Kenseth being one of them.
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And I did watch Tyler Reddick's post race press conference and I
4:56
believe he would. If he if he wins Koda, I'm
5:00
pretty sure he would be the first driver ever though to win
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three straight to start a Cup season.
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It's a big feat. Great, You know,
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congratulations. And I got to say, you know, it
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was it was a great effort. I mean, Tyler didn't have a
5:15
right front Fender. No one, no one would have
5:18
predicted he could have held the lead for even just a few seconds
5:22
without a front Fender. But you know, Baba was he was
5:29
the car to beat. I mean, he was the man to beat
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all most of the race. He was up there.
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He had he had the kind of strength that was going to be
5:38
hard to deal with. But you know what, these things,
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the way they play out with the the mania on the last, you know,
5:45
the last 20 laps of these, you know, drafting race tracks, you
5:50
just never know. And usually the fastest car
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doesn't win. Yeah.
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So you mentioned this being another popular race and the old
6:00
Jeff Glockpool. I believe it was about 74% for
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the Daytona 500. And so far I'm looking right now
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almost 14,000 votes. This one Atlanta is 93% say yes,
6:13
it's a good race. And to me, with the Next Gen.
6:16
car, I feel like it's so obvious on the tracks where you can just
6:20
pass, where you have green flag passing.
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And to me, you know, the finishes will vary.
6:26
But when I'm watching that race at Atlanta, it was just fun
6:29
because cars could pass each other on the track, not just pit
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Rd. And I've said this the last
6:34
couple years, I think that's just what NASCAR fans want.
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Do you guys agree with me? I think they just want to see
6:40
cars that can pass each other on the track move around and see
6:44
that race craft. You know, you I just I I agree
6:50
to some degree, but you know, I don't think that that our series
6:55
needs what we saw Sunday every race.
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We need to see a variety. I mean that's, you know, we're
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going to coda. We're not going to have, we're
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not going to have a three wide, you know, photo finish, but
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we're going to have some great racing.
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It's going to be fun. So I think you've got to have a
7:13
variation of of all different things of dominance of of, you
7:20
know, a different kind of passing.
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You know that drafting passing is, is one kind of passing, but
7:27
passing for a position at CODA, you know, that's a whole
7:31
different deal. And it's in many ways it's much
7:35
more difficult to do at CODA because you don't have the draft
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and now you've got to do, you know, do it with skills and with
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your car. So, yeah, I think, you know,
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it's been a good start. It's been a great start.
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You know, a lot of positive momentum from settling the
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lawsuit to, you know, to, to changing the points format to
8:01
something that the fans, you know, are excited about and the
8:06
drivers are excited about. And then you come out of the
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gate and you have 6 races, all of which were have been
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fantastic. You know, when you count the top
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three series. So not every race is going to be
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fantastic. That's the way sports, you know,
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are. But man, we're off to a good
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start. Yeah, Speaking of the lawsuit,
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now you have Michael Jordan with Tyler Reddick, obviously the
8:30
owner winning back-to-back races.
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And you you can see why over the last year or so, Michael Jordan
8:37
would not want to do as many interviews when they're they're
8:41
in court against NASCAR. But now he's doing all kinds of
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interviews on Fox with with Jamie Little.
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You're seeing them all the time there.
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What do you think that does for the sport?
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And I know we always joke about you got hardcore NASCAR fans,
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you do want to attract other fans.
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We always joke about the casuals.
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That doesn't mean we have to totally change the sport.
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But what do you think it means when you see a Michael Jordan as
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a winning NASCAR owner? And I'm and I'm sure that helps
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out with other media where they may cover NASCAR more because
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Michael Jordan is in it and he's winning races now.
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I think it's a, a good thing. I mean, you know, people that
9:18
are basketball fans, Michael Jordan fans, you know, they may
9:24
take note and see what, you know, he's accomplished here in
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NASCAR. And they might start paying
9:29
attention to the sport more. And you never know, they might
9:31
develop a passion for for racing as well.
9:36
You know, and another thing, a lot of people might not know
9:38
this, but Michael Jordan, I mean, he's been a NASCAR fan for
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a long time. I mean, dad can tell you the
9:44
story. Back in the 90s, they were
9:47
filming a Gatorade commercial together and Michael talked to
9:52
him about racing. So I mean, he's he's been a fan
9:55
for a long time. It's not just some recent, you
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know, adventure or venture that he's, you know, gone off into
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into NASCAR here so. Yeah, it's not, it's not a
10:07
business thing for Michael. It's a passion thing and he he
10:12
has had passion for, for, for racing, you know, since, since
10:17
he was a kid actually. And so and Michael Jordan's
10:21
worldwide, I mean, his reach goes all the way around the
10:26
globe. So this is a, you know, it's,
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it's a great thing. It's a great thing for NASCAR
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and I, I love seeing it. You know, he's, he's a good dude
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and he really, really supports, you know, the guys.
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I think they feel a lot of love for Michael.
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You know, he, he cares about the people that work there and the
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people that drive and work on those cars and stuff.
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So, you know, it's, it's, it's a cool thing to see when, when you
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see someone that has the kind of notoriety that he has to, you
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know, love the sport that we all love.
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Well, Mark, tell us about this Gatorade commercial.
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Was this the early 90s ish? Yes, we were both Gatorade guys
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and I ran Bristol on on Sunday and the the shoot was on Monday
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and I ran second at Bristol and I didn't know.
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I just knew Michael Jordan, a basketball player.
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That's it. It was just an honor to be in
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the same room. He comes walking, I get there
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first, of course, 'cause I get everywhere early.
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And he comes walking in and he looks at me and says, man, I
11:50
thought you had it. And I, I thought, wow, he just,
11:54
you know, because of Gatorade or something, they told him that I
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finished second or, you know, I didn't know at the time, had no
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idea that he was actually a race fan and that he watched the
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races. But, and you know, I didn't know
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even after he said that. I just thought it was kind of a
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coincidence and brushed it off when we did our, our, our
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Gatorade commercial shoot and moved on.
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But, you know, now in the later years, you know, I find out that
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he's been a race fan for, you know, since he was a kid.
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So it's pretty awesome. And Mark, you mentioned, you
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know, different passing on on different tracks.
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And obviously Atlanta plays more like a superspeedway, although
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it's not technically a superspeedway.
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As a driver, when you start the season with a Daytona and then
12:47
in Atlanta, does it does it help to kind of have those drafting
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tracks next to each other as opposed to if they were spread
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out more across the season? I don't know how it plays out
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from the team side now because, you know, with the with this
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car, you know, I don't know, it might be, you know, a little bit
13:08
more of a challenge back in the day when you had such
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specialized cars for Daytona. But you know this, first of all,
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you know, I'm I'm not a fan of the reconfiguration.
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I never have been of Atlanta. However, I'm going to have to
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admit that in some ways I'm wrong because, you know,
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everybody's raving about the racing that it has become.
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You know, the first time they raced on it, there was too much
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grip. The cool thing about what's
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happening is because the payment is losing grip, you can see
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handling really a matter too. So you have drafting and
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handling like you had in the late 80s, early 90s at Daytona,
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which has gone away now. And so you've got a, a unique
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combination of, of drafting and handling.
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You saw, you know, Tyler Reddick be able to win the race.
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He had fresher tires. That may have had something to
14:15
do with the way he was able to come through the field with no
14:18
right front Fender. Or maybe these engineers need to
14:22
do some studying. Maybe the car's better without a
14:25
right front Fender. I don't know.
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But so, but I think that's, I think that's really helped that
14:34
reconfiguration for the, for the asphalt to give up grip and have
14:41
handling become a bigger and bigger piece of the puzzle so
14:45
that you have drafting to get the runs, but you can always
14:49
sustain those runs in the corners if you don't have a
14:52
better handling car. So that makes it, I think that
14:56
brings an interest and a new element or an extra element to
15:00
it that makes it quite a bit different than Daytona or
15:04
Talladega. So you're now the third person
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I've seen that came out and said I didn't like the idea of the
15:12
reconfig, but but I'm wrong. They've said I'm wrong in some
15:16
way. I saw Jeff Gluck say that our
15:18
guy Matt Weaver, who does content here on the Kenny
15:20
Wallace YouTube channel, said the exact same thing.
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And now and now you're saying that.
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So is it more of at first you didn't like the idea of it, but
15:28
it's like, hey, the racing's actually pretty good or, or
15:30
what's your take on that? I still hated it the first time
15:34
they raced on it. But you can't be a purist to the
15:43
to the degree that you can't admit that if the majority of
15:48
the fans love it, then it's got to be good.
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You it's, you know, you got to give in.
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You've got to say, hey, this is good for our sport.
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It's good for our racing. So, you know, that's what I say.
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I enjoyed the racing all weekend.
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I will certainly enjoy the road course coming up, you know, and
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I will look forward to every other challenge that they have.
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I hope we don't see more reconfigs.
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I would hate to see, you know, NASCAR become, you know, a
16:24
drafting superspeedway thing purely for the entertainment,
16:29
because I am a racing purist. But I think you need all of it.
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You need, you know, short tracks, you know, you need
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intermediates, you need superspeedways.
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You need them all. OK, so let's go backwards now.
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On Saturday you had two great races, so we'll start with the
16:50
O'Reilly Series. Sheldon Creed finally gets his
16:54
first O'Reilly Series win and you have Austin Hill battling
16:59
with Ross Chastain there at the end.
17:01
They're they're blocking each other.
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Before I give my opinion, I want just just mark what what did you
17:06
think of of that finish and that race?
17:10
Oh, gosh, you know, a lot of controversy about that accident
17:17
or, or whatever happened there. You know, I look at it as, you
17:25
know, in today's racing, you have to block you.
17:28
You have to especially on the last lap.
17:34
And there's a lot of there's a lot of hate toward Austin Hill
17:39
because he's won so many. He has made some a number of
17:46
moves on the racetrack that I don't like, you know, but I
17:52
don't see anything wrong with what he did.
17:54
He got blasted for making a bad block.
17:58
I didn't see anything bad about it.
18:03
I love Ross Chastain from the standpoint that he makes it
18:07
exciting. I was happy to see a little bit
18:10
of the old Ross Chastain, but when he's he knows he's going to
18:17
get blocked. And so when he goes for the
18:21
inside and he sees, you know, Austin go to the inside, he does
18:25
have if he if he makes a choice soon enough, he has the option
18:30
of going to the outside. There's no way he was going to
18:35
get on the inside of him. I mean, you could see it.
18:38
I could see it as a, as a, you know, former driver.
18:41
It's not happening. You know, he's going to have to
18:44
go below the yellow line. So for him to continue on, you
18:48
know, I don't see that as a as a great move.
18:53
And and if it goes on the outside, that breaks your
18:56
momentum to switch back to the outside, you're all in a odd
19:00
he's going to start pushing you back up, you know, so it's not
19:04
it's going to break his momentum either way.
19:06
So Ross is he's faced with a situation where he's got the run
19:13
to win the race, but the defense is going to make it difficult to
19:17
win the race. It was just one of those racing
19:20
things. Ross was Ross.
19:23
I love him for it. I don't want to be in the, I
19:27
don't want to be in the car in front of him in that position,
19:30
especially trying to block him. But I don't fault either one.
19:34
I just, you know, I'm just saying what I saw.
19:37
And from a driver standpoint, it was going to be hard for Ross to
19:42
win the race even if he takes the outside, because then Austin
19:46
starts shoving him up the hill. He has to go up the hill.
19:49
He has to go so many, so many more, so much more distance that
19:54
it's going to break his momentum down.
19:56
And then, you know, then you can side draft him.
19:58
And so he had a tremendous run, but as it turned out, he wasn't
20:03
able to use it. Yeah, I didn't think Austin Hill
20:07
did anything wrong either. Now Ross said that he didn't
20:10
block Austin Hill a lap or two before that.
20:14
And you always talked about unintended consequences when we
20:18
were discussing the play offs. And I just, I kind of thought
20:21
about this when I was watching that race because again, if if
20:25
you would call me more of a of a casual, I like the fact that you
20:30
have Cup drivers racing more of these truck races and these
20:34
O'Reilly races. And so I love and I love Ross
20:37
Chastain's driving style. But then when I watch the end of
20:40
that race, I'm also thinking, well, here's Ross, he's a Cup
20:43
driver and he kind of messed up the points for a full time
20:47
O'Reilly guy in Austin Hill. But you can't tell Ross not to
20:52
race. So it's kind of one of those
20:54
things where I can't have my cake and eat it too.
20:57
I can't like the fact that I want these Cup drivers in there
21:01
and then be mad when they try to win the race.
21:04
It reminds me of the term bushwhacker.
21:08
Yeah, they started using that term.
21:11
Dad. You might have been the first
21:12
one that used that term for. If you win too much, you, you,
21:17
you get a bad rap. If you don't win a whole lot,
21:20
it's it's all fine and dandy, you know.
21:24
So, as we saw with with Kyle Busch, since he hadn't won and
21:29
so long, he was met with a great reception.
21:33
It was a it was a great win. The a lot of fans, you know,
21:39
enjoyed it and we're happy for him.
21:41
I just think that you have to think about consequences of all
21:47
of this, of blocking and and, you know, if Ross hadn't blocked
21:55
him earlier in the race, shame on him.
21:57
That's what they do. And the, you know, the only
22:00
thing I can say is is when, when I'm, I've got that run, you
22:05
know, when I'm sitting in Ross's car and I see, you know, Austin
22:11
moving to the inside, I see there's no way for me to get on
22:15
the inside of him before we get down to the yellow line.
22:20
And but he had such a way of a run.
22:24
You know, he, he ran into him. What are you supposed to do?
22:27
Let off the gas? These guys don't these guys
22:30
don't let off the gas when there's a rack in front of them.
22:33
Now, have you watched that? There's Rex and the guy just
22:38
sitting there wide open because that's what you have to do
22:40
today. It's crazy, but that's what you
22:44
do. You, you stay in the gas
22:45
nowadays. And and so, you know, a good
22:51
thing for good on Austin, that was a that was a save of the
22:54
weekend, I think. So Bushwacker though that was,
22:58
that was targeted, that was directed at you back in the day,
23:00
when did that start? Matt would know better than I,
23:03
but it was the early 90s when we were winning so much with that,
23:07
with that Winn-dixie car. Yeah, so in 93, you know, that
23:13
was the first big year in the Winn-dixie car, and he had
23:16
fourteen starts, 7D and FS and seven wins.
23:20
So if he finished the race, he won.
23:22
So, you know, from that point on in that winn-dixie car, I mean,
23:26
he won every other race that, you know, he competed in.
23:31
And yeah, by by the mid 90s, that term was used, you know,
23:37
disparagingly, you know, just people that didn't think that
23:41
that or any other, you know, Cup driver that that one in the Bush
23:47
series quite a bit, you know, they that they shouldn't be
23:49
racing in the series. So, yeah, I mean, that that was
23:53
going on before Kyle Busch and and other guys.
23:57
But yeah, that's the term. And for people that don't know
24:01
if you're a real history nerd, the Bushwhacker, that term is
24:05
even older, but it's not obviously spelled with AC.
24:10
But Bushwhacker, you know, refers to a gorilla, you know,
24:13
warfare type of guy from the American Civil War, so.
24:20
Yeah, Also a great WWF old tag team group.
24:24
I know Matt, you like WWE, so I remember those guys.
24:27
Yeah, I forgot about that. The 80s, nineties, whatever it
24:29
was, yeah. Yeah.
24:31
OK. So Kyle Busch, we'll go to
24:32
trucks now. So Kyle Busch, as you mentioned,
24:35
he wins the truck race. He's got some teammate play
24:38
there with with Carson Hosevar. That was a fun race.
24:41
They do the double burnout at the end.
24:43
So again, we're talking Cup guys going into trucks and and
24:47
dominating Mark. Yeah, that's, you know, that's
24:51
good for, you know, I always believe it's good for the sport.
24:55
It raises the game, raises the bar, it pushes, you know, these
25:00
guys, all these guys in the lower series want to ultimate
25:06
ultimately be in cup and they have to measure themselves.
25:11
If a, if a cup guy comes in and runs the truck or or the
25:15
O'Reilly race, they have to measure themselves against those
25:20
guys because they're going to have to when they move up.
25:24
And it pushes them to raise their bar, raise their game.
25:29
And I it also is good for the fans, you know, it, it, it helps
25:36
bring awareness to it. It helps bring underdogs.
25:41
You know, I mean, the fans can latch onto, you know, the young
25:46
truck regular that that gives these cup guys a fit.
25:51
And they say, I like that one. I'm going to watch that one, you
25:54
know, and so I, I think it's good for the sport and it
25:58
certainly was a was a great race.
26:00
It was a great finish. Good to see Kyle get a win and
26:04
hopefully you can get a couple in or two this year.
26:08
Yeah. So in this race and that that
26:10
day, this is where I think sometimes NASCAR, they're just
26:13
put in tough spots. You had weather, you have the
26:17
two races on the same day, they're on different TV
26:20
networks. So you have FS1 and then you
26:22
have the O'Reilly Series going to be on The CW later.
26:26
So NASCAR makes this decision and I was only able to watch at
26:29
the end of the race. And I see everybody talking
26:31
about this time clock because the the race ended about I think
26:36
10 laps fewer than it should have been because of those
26:39
circumstances that I just mentioned.
26:41
And I don't know how many people were really mad about that.
26:44
But give us, give us your take on the time clock there.
26:48
If you read X, they were mad about it.
26:50
I couldn't believe it. You know how much of A flap that
26:53
was made about that? We got to see a great race.
26:59
I mean, what the heck? And with the when I first heard
27:06
that they were going to do it, I thought, well, why would they do
27:08
that? And then, you know, CW what,
27:13
how, how many people would have been mad if they did, if they
27:16
got the TV cut off of the O'Reilly race with 10 laps to
27:21
go, people would have lost their mind.
27:24
So I mean, they did the right thing.
27:29
They were in a tough box. They were able to deliver both
27:33
fantastic races on two different networks.
27:36
And you know, CW had their programming and evidently they
27:40
weren't, you know, in a position to budget on it.
27:44
Like sometimes if you're FS1, you they can they can go over or
27:50
this one can, you know, they needed to fit this in this box
27:53
and they did it for the fans. And I had no problem with it
27:58
because, you know, they were in a doubleheader and you know,
28:01
they're, they, they had their reason for it.
28:04
And and so I I just didn't have any problem with it.
28:09
All right, one more topic here before I throw to Matt for some
28:12
for some memories of Atlanta and some other classic stories.
28:16
So we have this big story that broke last week, end of last
28:19
week, you have Joe Gibbs Racing suing their former competition
28:24
director Chris Gabehart. And then it was announced right
28:27
afterwards that Chris Gabehart is going to Spire.
28:30
So the allegations are essentially the theft of
28:34
proprietary information with setups and all that.
28:38
This came out, I think it was Thursday the next day, then
28:42
whatever the next day was Chris, Gabe Hart has denied all this.
28:45
I believe the lawsuit is for something like $8 million.
28:48
So we'll see how it plays out. But Mark, I'm, I'm not guessing.
28:54
I'm, I'm knowing this has always happened in some way where you
28:57
can't really take someone's brain if they're with one team
29:01
and then they know the knowledge to go to another team.
29:04
I'm sure contractually you can't do some of these things
29:06
digitally. But again, what's your thoughts
29:10
on this pretty, pretty huge story?
29:14
It's been going on in some form since day one.
29:18
That's why every race car that Jake Elder went to when he was
29:23
called Suitcase Jake, the car hauled is because he knew in his
29:29
head, not even sure if he could write down the setups.
29:33
He knew he had the information. And you learn that information
29:38
back then from trial and error and common sense.
29:43
And so you couldn't do anything about it back then when you're a
29:48
guy left and went somewhere else, you know, the guy with the
29:52
information, the knowledge that they had learned partially from
29:56
when they work for you. The problem, the problem has
30:00
become a lot more complex because it's so much more than
30:08
that. Set up the four springs, 4
30:10
shocks of sway, burn, weight distribution.
30:13
Everybody always back then remembered how you hung the box.
30:16
Now, you know, there's so much technical information and these
30:24
teams, you know, when I raced, the manufacturers were not
30:32
highly involved from the technical side of it, but the
30:36
cars have become so technical now and the information they
30:43
supply to the race teams as valued as cash money it because
30:49
it's so much, it's just like them giving them money because
30:54
it would cost them an enormous amount of money to gain that
30:58
knowledge and, and it you know that that they're able to supply
31:02
them. And so it is a problem if you
31:09
take that knowledge today somewhere else, you can remember
31:14
as much as you want of it, but there's way more, you know,
31:18
there's so much more than could be in the memory bank.
31:23
I, I don't know Chris Gay part personally, but I'm a huge fan
31:29
of his. And I have a, you know, I
31:34
believe, you know, I really respect him and I believe he has
31:39
a lot of integrity. I would be shocked.
31:43
No, I shouldn't say that. I'd be surprised if he had
31:47
walked out of there with a thumb drive with everything you know
31:51
that's on it. I wouldn't be surprised if he
31:54
didn't walk out of there with, you know, a good bit of
31:58
knowledge that he gained while he was there.
32:03
I'm not defending him. This will be settled in court.
32:08
I have a lot of sympathy for JGR Joe Gibbs Racing because, you
32:15
know, they lost someone that, you know, arguably restored
32:21
Denny Hamlin's career. I mean, I thought Denny Hamlin
32:25
was was fading until Chris came in the picture and, and he did
32:31
so much. He was so important to that
32:34
organization and he may have taken stuff that he shouldn't
32:40
have. I guess it will all come out in
32:43
court, but it that's why it's so different now.
32:47
You have to be so much more protective of what's inside the
32:53
building because it's manufacturers bring so much more
32:56
to the table then you can do on your own as far as development
33:02
and and research and development and all these, you know, all
33:06
this information that they're supplying nowadays.
33:10
So we'll see what happens. Yeah, Speaking of Jake Elder, I
33:16
love Jake Elder's stories, but that wasn't the spring race at
33:21
Atlanta in 91 when he was crew chief in Davy Allison's car.
33:25
And Davy had crashed real early. And for whatever reason, he, you
33:33
know, Jake refused to fix the car, so he had to remove that
33:37
and take it up. What was that about?
33:39
I'm not sure Jake was was was was mad and Jake was a he.
33:48
I don't know if he was emotional or not, but Jake was strung.
33:52
He was wrapped pretty tight, so was I, I'm not saying anything
33:57
bad, I'm just saying he was wrapped pretty tight.
34:00
He was wound pretty tight. And I don't remember, you know,
34:04
what the explanation was for why he saw no reason to repair the
34:11
car, didn't think it was worth repairing or whatever.
34:16
But there was a lot of, you know, some guys would just say,
34:22
hey, this car isn't worth repairing.
34:26
That's not how Jake put it by things.
34:29
It was typical Jake and you got to love him for it.
34:33
But I, I don't know, I don't remember the, the the details of
34:38
of how that really shook out. I.
34:40
Think it was right after that that Robert hired Larry Mack.
34:45
Yeah, that was that was yeah, exactly.
34:49
Yeah. Yeah, they put put it nicely.
34:52
Yes, that's that did happen. All right, on that note, I'll
34:57
hand it over to you, Matt. Back to you for some more
35:00
memories from the Mark Martin Archive.
35:02
Well, Dad Chris from NASCAR Planet shared a clip of you on
35:06
Instagram yesterday of you qualifying at Atlanta in 2009.
35:11
And it got me to thinking about how good of a qualifier you were
35:16
in your career. You know what made you such a
35:20
good qualifier? I don't know.
35:24
I really, it was exhilarating for me.
35:31
I was sort of scared, you know, I, I really, really wasn't sure.
35:40
I would always really push past what I thought was was possible.
35:50
And so especially as a race tracks got bigger, you know, in
35:58
size to the intermediates now, I just wasn't sure I was going to
36:02
make it back. You know, Dover, even Richmond,
36:08
so many, so many of those race tracks, I just blocked
36:13
everything out 100%. And it was all just such a huge
36:25
focus on going faster than you had ever had, you know, just
36:34
beyond the limits, just the limits and then some.
36:39
And it just was really special to me.
36:43
It was something that I really loved, you know, I love doing,
36:47
but I was scared at the same time, you know, and that mixture
36:53
was just really fun for me. And it was something that I was,
36:58
you know, historically good, good at from 1977 when we really
37:04
first started doing time trials. You know, I didn't do a lot of
37:08
time trials on dirt where we timed in.
37:13
But once we started racing on pavement, I always, always
37:17
qualified as good or better, you know, then we thought we had for
37:24
a car. You know, I always remember you
37:28
talking about how you would you drive the car, you know, to its
37:32
to its limit, almost beyond its limit, you know, but I can't
37:36
think of a time and at least a NASCAR where you actually
37:40
wrecked the car trying to qualify.
37:42
I mean, did that ever happen? I don't remember ever reckon
37:46
qualifying. I, I remember at Rockingham
37:53
having it step out, you know, and going way up the racetrack
37:58
in, in, you know, winding up in the back of the pack.
38:02
I got, you know, I got a lap, but it was horrible.
38:04
You know, it was 30th or something and I couldn't ever
38:08
stand, you know, starting back that far.
38:12
So I got had a close call there and I'm sure I've had a few
38:17
close calls, but I never just packed it into the wall.
38:22
But I sure thought I was. I sure thought I was going to,
38:26
gosh, that was fun. That was one of my favorite
38:29
parts. You know, a lot of drivers say
38:32
they put in qualifying laps in the race at certain times.
38:38
I never, never did that because I didn't have a high confidence
38:44
that I was going to make it. You know, I didn't know for
38:47
sure. And in racing I had to be sure I
38:51
was going to make it to the end. So I had to, I, I raced the car
38:58
a little bit different with a totally different mindset where
39:01
I considered the consequences of things.
39:06
There was a lot more going on in my head.
39:09
There was virtually nothing going on in my head when I
39:12
qualified. I mean, it was all that and that
39:17
was it. No repercussions, you know, No
39:23
nothing. Just, you know, go faster than
39:27
you think. I always drove it into the
39:28
corner deeper and picked up the throttle sooner.
39:31
That was my deal. How do you go faster?
39:34
How do you pick up that much? And it's like I drive it in
39:37
deeper and pick up the throttle sooner.
39:41
Well, you know, you've always been known as being super
39:44
intense, but this is one of my favorite stories.
39:46
I've got to share this with the fans.
39:48
So anybody that doesn't know, you're a little bit hyperactive
39:54
little bit. And one of Dad's deals is he
39:57
can't sit still very long. And so one of the things about
40:01
Dad, if you watch when he sits down, especially if he's got
40:05
something on his mind, his legs will shake back and forth.
40:09
And so when he would sit, you know, in his car on Pit Rd. in
40:13
the qualifying line, you know, his car would shake back and
40:18
forth because his legs tell that story.
40:21
Yeah, the car would rock. I didn't realize it because it,
40:24
you know, and and Arlene gets on me all the time because I do it
40:28
on the sofa too, you know? And she and she says, why do you
40:33
do that? And I say because it feels good.
40:35
I don't know, feels right. So.
40:39
Yeah. So you could actually, if you
40:42
looked really close, you could see the car rocking back and
40:45
forth a little bit. And then, you know, of course,
40:48
Jack discovered what was going on.
40:51
And then I would have guys, you know, team guys like crew chiefs
40:56
or something from other cars, they'd walk by the car and, you
41:01
know, while I was in line to qualify and they'd reach in and
41:04
put their hand on my knee to stop it.
41:09
And, and of course Jack discovered it early on, you
41:14
know, probably when we were running so fast and in 89 and
41:18
getting getting so many colds, but he discovered it.
41:21
And so then he would come and check and make sure I was doing
41:25
it because he wanted it to be happening.
41:27
So, yeah, it was kind of a little bit of a, a joke that
41:31
that kind of went around. You know, the competitors wanted
41:34
me to quit it and Jack wanted to make sure I was doing it And and
41:39
I couldn't help it. That's just that is just part of
41:42
me. Well, who was it that one time
41:46
you weren't doing it and your car was still?
41:48
Who was it that came up to the car and reached in, grabbed your
41:51
legs to get those legs going? I.
41:54
Don't remember who it was, but there that's happened more than
41:57
once. Like I said, I've had people try
41:59
to reach in and stop it and I've had and and I have had people
42:03
say get them legs going. Well, you were one hell of a
42:09
qualifier. I mean 56, you know, Poles in
42:11
the Cup Series, you know, one of the one of NASCAR's best
42:15
qualifiers in the era that you raced.
42:18
But what who are some of the guys that were the toughest to
42:23
out qualify? I know Alan Kwiki you mentioned
42:26
was one of them. Talk about Alan and who else
42:29
would you put up there with him? I put no one in the same
42:33
category or league with Alan. There's multiple reasons why it
42:39
was, you know, Alan stands out. We were, you know, people could
42:45
consider us friends, but we were rivals.
42:50
And I haven't read the definition of a rival.
42:54
We weren't enemy rivals. But we, you know, we had a
43:00
rivalry going because we knew we were the 1.
43:03
I knew he was the one and he knew I was the one.
43:07
And we had epic, epic pole battles at Pocono, Dover,
43:14
Charlotte, many places where, you know, one of us would go out
43:18
early and, and be on the pole and everybody knew nobody could
43:23
touch it, you know, but we knew the other was still left to go
43:29
and, and, and it was epic. You know, Alan was, was equally
43:36
spectacular at qualifying. And I, I like to tell this
43:45
because this how I remember Alan and I'm not saying it's
43:50
historically perfectly accurate, but it, it is in my mind and
43:57
that's all that matters. So, for example, epic qualifying
44:03
stories at at Dover's Alan crashes in practice on Friday
44:11
before qualifying wipes his car out.
44:14
They pull out their backup car and are getting it ready, you
44:19
know, while I go out and sit on the pole and nobody's going to
44:24
be able to touch it. And Alan goes out last because,
44:28
you know, he got exempt from, you know, going out whenever
44:32
he's supposed to go out because he was getting his car ready
44:35
and, and he goes out with 0 laps on that car.
44:39
And the last lap he made, he crashed and he goes out and he
44:43
beats me. That's the way I remember.
44:47
That's how fierce of a qualifier Alan Kowicki was.
44:50
That to me is just unconscionable how you could do
44:54
that, how you could have that kind of confidence.
44:57
But you know, Steve Neal said on, on Dale Junior's download,
45:03
you know, about my confidence. And that's I had a lot of
45:09
confidence and, and Alan did too.
45:13
I had some epic pole battles with, with Trickle, but that was
45:18
prior to NASCAR. In NASCAR, I never had anything
45:24
that rivaled what Alan and I did because we were both, you know,
45:29
we both could qualify better than the cars that we had.
45:34
I mean, it was just, it was unbelievable what Alan could do.
45:39
You know, when you would think there was no way and he just
45:41
pulled off, you know, this stuff and just make your set your hair
45:45
on fireman. It was crazy.
45:48
Well, I, I mean, I knew he was a good qualifier, but I, I didn't
45:51
realize like I'd never heard that story before.
45:54
That's that is crazy. Yeah.
45:56
And I, you know, I can't say that it's historically accurate,
46:00
but it's historically accurate in my mind.
46:02
And, and I believe it happened. But if it didn't, if it did, if
46:08
it wasn't that he beat me off the pole, he still got the pole.
46:13
And I wasn't the guy that was on the front row.
46:15
I mean, I, I know he did that. I know he went out on zero lap
46:20
backup car and stuck it on a pole on the pole at Dover, which
46:25
is not, you know, it's just shouldn't be humanly possible.
46:32
Well, that is all I had for qualifying stories.
46:36
All right, so I have one more topic, but because I brought
46:39
this up earlier about the first two races of the season, a
46:43
driver winning, I did. I did check that.
46:45
So Tyler Reddick is the 6th ever in the Cup Series to do that.
46:50
As you mentioned, Mark, the last person to do it was Matt Kenseth
46:53
in 2009. And then if we go backwards, I
46:56
got Jeff Gordon 1997, I got David Pearson 1976, I have Bob
47:03
Welborn 1959 and Marvin Panch is it in in 1957?
47:10
So Reddick is the 6th guy, but again, if he can win at CODA,
47:14
he'd be the first ever to win the first three Cup races of the
47:17
season. And we know Reddick is a pretty
47:19
Dang good Rd. course driver. He is really good on road
47:24
courses. So everybody be tuned in because
47:28
it it could be awesome history making.
47:31
It's going to be a great race. I love the racetrack.
47:34
I'm I'm glad that they're going to be on a road course this
47:37
weekend. That turn one that will that
47:41
turn one will service up some some of that superspeedway
47:46
excitement and sparks and and somebody's going to be mad for
47:51
sure. So there should be something for
47:54
everyone. Yeah.
47:57
And then one more topic from today.
47:59
Little bit of breaking news. You got Keelan Harvick signing a
48:04
long term development deal. This guy's thirteen years old
48:08
and I'm sure as free agents go, I'm sure everybody wanted them,
48:12
Toyota, Ford and Chevy, but they go with TRD at the age of 13.
48:17
I know you had talked in the past about how TRD full of
48:21
racers, they have a really good development program.
48:23
Were you surprised at all that he's going Toyota?
48:26
Well, it doesn't surprise me in one sense because Ford just
48:34
doesn't have a, a, a program of substance and Chevrolet has a
48:41
bit of one. But but you know, no, but no one
48:46
has the kind of substance that Toyota does.
48:50
And there again, we should be grateful to Toyota for bringing
48:55
us all the all the great racers that we have today in Cup, in
49:02
O'Reilly, in the Truck Series, in ARCA and and then the short
49:09
tracks, you know, because that's where that's where Keelan's
49:11
going to have to be for a while in late models, in short track.
49:15
And of course, he's already winning races.
49:17
Does it surprise me that Toyota wanted him?
49:23
Doesn't surprise me that Keelan and Kevin think that that's
49:26
their their best option to get to cup and the quickest, you
49:33
know, path to get to cup. So I think it's I think it's
49:39
good for everyone you. Didn't have these development
49:42
deals back when you started as a as a youngster, did that.
49:44
That'd have been nice to go to school in middle school or high
49:48
school with a, I'm guessing a pretty nice amount of change
49:52
there. Things are a lot different than
49:55
they were, and that doesn't make it all bad.
49:58
You know, you have to take, and that's the one thing about, you
50:01
know, about today. You have to realize that 30
50:06
years from now people are going to look back and say, you know,
50:09
those were the good old days. So you know, you've got to take
50:13
the good with the, you know, with the disappointments, you
50:18
know change is going to come whether you like it or not, and
50:23
embrace the good part of it. Now I saw you shaking your head
50:25
there. What was that about?
50:26
Yeah, I mean, I guess there's some truth to that, but I don't
50:29
know. I'm a old soul man, you know,
50:31
it's like, I just feel like the whole area that I grew up in is
50:34
like just, I mean, when I read about stuff from the 70s and 80s
50:40
and 90s, not just racing, but I'm like, man, that's just, to
50:44
me, it's just so much better. So many things, but one thing
50:49
about doing Dad's book, I mean, that I think people will really
50:52
enjoy is, I mean, if you want to know what it was like, you know,
50:56
stock car racing in the late 70s through through the 80s and the
51:00
90s, I mean, this is, you know, the ultimate book for that.
51:05
I mean, it's just completely different than today.
51:09
And in my opinion, of course I'm biased, but way more
51:12
interesting. Well, it'll be fascinating for
51:16
for fans that don't know, you know, that's that era of my
51:20
career. It, it, it will be fascinating
51:23
because it's as compared to today, it's it's the wild, Wild
51:27
West. I mean it, you know, the rule,
51:30
there were some rules, but you know, there weren't as many, you
51:34
know, there weren't as many rules as there are today by any
51:36
means. And, you know, it was just like
51:40
we were, you know, we were outlaws, man.
51:43
And, and doing it, doing it with your bare hands, it's just,
51:48
there was a lot of interesting stuff.
51:50
There's a lot of stuff about Alan Kowicki in there, a lot of
51:53
stuff about Rusty Wallace. You know, there's a lot of stuff
51:57
about guys that were amazing and you get to find out a whole era
52:06
before they got to NASCAR because most of the the majority
52:10
of fans really only know all us, all those guys from their NASCAR
52:15
career. And that's what will make this
52:18
book interesting to the fans. Yeah, I mean, Dad and Alan
52:23
Quickie actually shared a shop together in the mid 80s during,
52:28
you know, the ASA years. And, you know, some people have
52:32
heard of this, but I think they both, there was a, what is that
52:36
upstairs, like a mezzanine or something?
52:38
And there was a hole in the wall up there.
52:40
And they're the shop. Their sides were divided by
52:43
wall, but there was a hole in that wall at the top there.
52:46
And I think both of them would take through that hole and try
52:49
and spy on the other one. So yeah, it's pretty funny.
52:54
Yeah, I definitely surveyed Allen's shop a couple times when
52:58
I was coming back down from the mezzanine.
53:02
And didn't you hear that he did the same?
53:05
I heard that. I don't know that's a fact, but
53:08
I did, Sir. I I have heard that.
53:10
So yeah, we at that time we, I wouldn't say Alan and I were
53:16
close. We kept our, we kept our
53:17
distance. At that time we were, like I
53:20
said, we were rivals. We were friendly rivals but we
53:26
weren't best friends by by any means.
53:29
Well, that gets back to kind of the Gabe Hart story in the good
53:31
old days and and I'm not saying I know what happened with Gabe
53:33
Hart, but back in the day, it's just it seems more fun that guys
53:37
are peeking through ceilings and and writing this stuff on paper,
53:41
right, Probably writing on post it notes and now you got
53:43
computers kind of figuring all this stuff out.
53:46
Yeah, it's a it's a lot different.
53:50
I think it'll be an interesting read, especially the like Matt
53:54
said, the first half or 2/3 of the book really tells the story
53:59
of why, you know, so many things and, and why I turned out to be
54:06
the person that I was. You know all that, you know, all
54:13
that fun that we had, all the all the challenges that we had
54:18
and the crazy things that that we did.
54:22
There's just a lot of stuff in there.
54:23
There's even stories in there. There's two stories in there
54:27
that Matt and Arlene had never heard because I'd never told
54:31
anyone because I was too embarrassed.
54:34
So there's a lot of crazy stuff in there.
54:38
Yeah, I can't wait for the book to come out.
54:40
And anything more for from you guys before we wrap this one up?
54:45
I don't think so. I think this was a good episode.
54:47
I did too. Agreed.
54:49
All right. There it is, Episode 7 of the
54:51
Mark Martin Archive podcast. I'm Charlie Marlowe for Mark,
54:55
for Matt. We'll see you next week.
54:57
Thanks guys. Thank you.
54:59
Thank you.