Latest / Next Level Play Therapy: A Podcast for Play Therapy Excellence / Can Children Heal in Play Therapy without Parents?

Transcript

Can Children Heal in Play Therapy without Parents? · Next Level Play Therapy: A Podcast for Play Therapy Excellence

• 0:02
  Cathi Spooner: Welcome to Next Level Play Therapy, a weekly podcast dedicated to supporting the next generation of child and adolescent therapists to provide exceptional play therapy services.
• 0:14
  Cathi Spooner: We'll explore all things play therapy to elevate your work with children and adolescents using the therapeutic powers of play.
• 0:23
  Cathi Spooner: I'll discuss practical tips and ideas.
• 0:26
  Cathi Spooner: So you can provide a transformative experience for your young clients and make a real difference in their lives.
• 0:34
  Cathi Spooner: So get ready to take your play therapy skills to the next level and make a lasting impact in the lives of children, adolescents, and families.
• 0:47
  Cathi Spooner: Hey there.
• 0:49
  Cathi Spooner: Welcome to this week's episode of Next Level Play Therapy.
• 0:54
  Cathi Spooner: Today I want to talk about the role of parents in the play therapy process and whether or not you're going to make the long term positive outcomes using play therapy if you're not really integrating parents in the play therapy process.
• 1:18
  Cathi Spooner: So my question is, I think that we all consider, need to consider, are considering, if you haven't thought about it, maybe this would be a good thing to start thinking and considering, is what's the best way to make the biggest and the most long term positive outcomes using play therapy?
• 1:46
  Cathi Spooner: Because the way that I look at it is we get into play therapy.
• 1:51
  Cathi Spooner: We get into mental health because we want to help.
• 1:55
  Cathi Spooner: We want to help our clients.
• 1:57
  Cathi Spooner: If you're a play therapist or you're a child and adolescent therapist, then you get into the mental health field because you want to help people.
• 2:05
  Cathi Spooner: That's easier said than done sometimes, right?
• 2:08
  Cathi Spooner: We, we get into the muck of it.
• 2:12
  Cathi Spooner: I say with our clients, we get in there, that, If they, if we've built that trust with them, which is always the goal, if we've built that trust, it's a bridge for them to open the door to let us into their lives in a, in a deep way, right?
• 2:33
  Cathi Spooner: They, they trust us to let us in to see what's really going on.
• 2:39
  Cathi Spooner: To see all the good, the bad and the ugly, excuse me, so to speak.
• 2:46
  Cathi Spooner: So that's, that's the goal, right?
• 2:49
  Cathi Spooner: To when they allow us to get in there and see, then we, we've built that place of trust, which requires some build vulnerability on their part.
• 3:03
  Cathi Spooner: If we're getting in there and we're really getting a sense of what's going on, then what's the most effective way to help our clients get the positive outcomes that they really want.
• 3:17
  Cathi Spooner: The reasons that they're coming to counseling is to get better.
• 3:22
  Cathi Spooner: They, you're the expert, whether or not you feel like the expert, you are the expert because you have more training, knowledge, and experience usually, unless you're working with parents who are therapists, um, then, then they're coming to you for help.
• 3:42
  Cathi Spooner: So, what's the, what's the best way to get those outcomes for children and adolescents?
• 3:53
  Cathi Spooner: And if that's the question that you're asking yourself, then it'll be important to consider what's the role of parents and who is the therapeutic agent of change in the play therapy process when you're working with children and adolescents.
• 4:16
  Cathi Spooner: If you're a child and adolescent therapist, who's the therapeutic agent of change?
• 4:23
  Cathi Spooner: Is it the therapist or is it the parents?
• 4:27
  Cathi Spooner: And I think you can make the case that it's, it can be both.
• 4:31
  Cathi Spooner: Because as therapists, we are trained to develop that therapeutic rapport.
• 4:37
  Cathi Spooner: We're trained to use a theoretical model to help our clients through each stage of the change process.
• 4:46
  Cathi Spooner: The thing is, if you really, really want to get the long term positive outcomes then it'll be critical for you to answer the question of our parents, the therapeutic agents of change for their children.
• 5:06
  Cathi Spooner: And I would say, yes, I think parents.
• 5:10
  Cathi Spooner: are the therapeutic agents of change for their children.
• 5:14
  Cathi Spooner: I think our role as play therapists is to provide support for parents to help them become that therapeutic agent of change.
• 5:24
  Cathi Spooner: So in a way we're kind of both support and therapeutic agent of change for parents as well as for children And when we're acting in that role of therapeutic agent of change for parents, then we're helping them become that therapeutic agent of change for their children.
• 5:48
  Cathi Spooner: Because I've, if you've listened to any of my past, um, episodes, then you'll know that I, I think our role as play therapist is really to help children develop that safe, secure attachment relationship with their parents and help their parents become that long term support for their children.
• 6:14
  Cathi Spooner: And I, I include siblings.
• 6:18
  Cathi Spooner: I, I think we don't really talk about siblings enough and the role of siblings in the healing process.
• 6:27
  Cathi Spooner: So I would include, I would include sibling relationships in there because parents and children are in the lives of your clients much longer than you are there.
• 6:39
  Cathi Spooner: Hopefully that's the goal, right?
• 6:41
  Cathi Spooner: Hopefully they're gonna have these really strong relationships with siblings and parents for the rest of their lives.
• 6:51
  Cathi Spooner: So part of that means we have to get in there with them in the good the bad and the ugly of things and help them facilitate those changes.
• 7:01
  Cathi Spooner: Um, for parents to become the therapeutic agents of change for their children, then you really need to identify what is their role.
• 7:12
  Cathi Spooner: What is the role of parents in the play therapy process?
• 7:16
  Cathi Spooner: If you're a child and adolescent therapist and you're working with children or you're working with adolescents, what's the role of parents and how do you figure that out?
• 7:28
  Cathi Spooner: So that's what I want to talk about today.
• 7:30
  Cathi Spooner: If you're watching me live, I am streaming live into Instagram.
• 7:37
  Cathi Spooner: I also am streaming live into LinkedIn and YouTube.
• 7:41
  Cathi Spooner: The replay of this will be posted in my Facebook group 'cause I can't live stream directly in there anymore using Streamyard.
• 7:49
  Cathi Spooner: Um, but I'd love to know who's here if you're watching the live episode.
• 7:55
  Cathi Spooner: Post your name in the comments, what population you work with, where you work, um, how do you integrate parents in the play therapy change process.
• 8:08
  Cathi Spooner: So that is what we're going to discuss today.
• 8:11
  Cathi Spooner: If you're watching on the replay, I would still love to know who's watching.
• 8:16
  Cathi Spooner: What your what population you work with, where you're working.
• 8:20
  Cathi Spooner: So go ahead and post in the comments If you're listening on the podcast I would love to Um hear from you.
• 8:28
  Cathi Spooner: So feel free to comment feel free to leave a review It's always helpful to get reviews So I would love your feedback in a review if you're finding this helpful Um, what's helpful and if you find the information useful, please feel free to share this with your colleagues, share it on your social media and let's get started with our conversation for the day.
• 8:56
  Cathi Spooner: So first and foremost, we are talking about really that, that idea or the question is, can children heal in play therapy without their, the involvement of parents?
• 9:11
  Cathi Spooner: I would say most child and adolescent therapists, most play therapists would say, no, we need parents in there.
• 9:18
  Cathi Spooner: But what I've noticed is that there's not necessarily any understanding of what that's going to look like.
• 9:25
  Cathi Spooner: How are you going to involve parents in the play therapy process?
• 9:30
  Cathi Spooner: Which brings us to my first, um, point to discuss today, which is in order to figure out how you're going to help your clients.
• 9:42
  Cathi Spooner: And in order to figure out what is the role of parents in the play therapy process, you really first need to understand what the problem is and why is it happening.
• 9:53
  Cathi Spooner: Because in order to answer the question of how can I help my clients, you have to first figure out what the problem is and why the problem is happening, which is also known as some good case conceptualization.
• 10:08
  Cathi Spooner: So if you're interested in learning more about case conceptualization, I have talked about that a lot in previous episodes.
• 10:16
  Cathi Spooner: So on Instagram, you could probably Kind of go to my grid and go back and watch, uh, find some of those older episodes.
• 10:27
  Cathi Spooner: It's probably easiest to find though on my YouTube channel, Cathi Spooner, Renewing Hearts Training.
• 10:34
  Cathi Spooner: If you go to the live tab on YouTube, you can find all the replays.
• 10:39
  Cathi Spooner: They are all there.
• 10:41
  Cathi Spooner: Um, so first and foremost, what is the role of parents and how do you figure that out?
• 10:50
  Cathi Spooner: Well, your theory model is going to influence how you make sense of what the problem is and how you make sense of what's contributing to the problem and the patterns that are sustaining it.
• 11:06
  Cathi Spooner: So this also, I would say this also includes looking at those relationship patterns.
• 11:12
  Cathi Spooner: with family members.
• 11:13
  Cathi Spooner: So parents and siblings, if you have a household where maybe extended family are actively involved in the life of the child, then it's probably a good idea to look at those relationship patterns, look at the relationship patterns between parents and the other family members and how those dynamics work.
• 11:38
  Cathi Spooner: That's really using more of the family systems lens to conceptualize the child in context of their larger family system.
• 11:49
  Cathi Spooner: And when you think about it in order to make really good, um, deep impact, you really need to consider the child in context of their system.
• 12:02
  Cathi Spooner: Child in context of family, child in context of school.
• 12:07
  Cathi Spooner: What's going on at school?
• 12:09
  Cathi Spooner: How are those dynamics at school?
• 12:11
  Cathi Spooner: When the child gets to be a little bit older, you know, maybe, um, kind of those middle, early adolescent years, late adolescence, what are, what are the role of friendships?
• 12:23
  Cathi Spooner: How are they navigating all of these social context?
• 12:28
  Cathi Spooner: So you really want to look at child in context of their system.
• 12:33
  Cathi Spooner: And there's a lot of, um, systems to look at.
• 12:40
  Cathi Spooner: I would say fundamentally and most importantly, I would want to see what's going on in their family system.
• 12:49
  Cathi Spooner: If we're using that neuroscience and attachment lens, then we're conceptualizing those attachment relationships and their importance in identity formation and self concept and learning resiliency, learning how to navigate the challenges of life.
• 13:11
  Cathi Spooner: So those attachment relationships play a critical role and looking at the child within the context of those is really, really important.
• 13:22
  Cathi Spooner: So when we conceptualize what's going on with our clients and what's causing their distress, you really want to look at child in context of family.
• 13:34
  Cathi Spooner: And children need their parents to help them regulate emotions.
• 13:39
  Cathi Spooner: They need their parents to learn how to navigate the different challenges in life.
• 13:45
  Cathi Spooner: They need that support and so helping parents to be that support for their children to me is a gift that keeps on giving.
• 13:59
  Cathi Spooner: It gives generationally because those patterns get passed on through the generation.
• 14:05
  Cathi Spooner: If you're working with family systems and that have generational patterns of trauma, attachment wounds, addiction, poverty, being able to provide that support to parents to change generational relationship patterns is huge.
• 14:27
  Cathi Spooner: And if you, you can support parents that way, then they can then make changes for their child and break some of those patterns, which is huge.
• 14:39
  Cathi Spooner: And they can't do that alone.
• 14:40
  Cathi Spooner: We can't do those things alone.
• 14:42
  Cathi Spooner: We all need help.
• 14:43
  Cathi Spooner: Sometimes life gets rough, you know, for all of us, we always stay in the mental health field.
• 14:49
  Cathi Spooner: You know, we we do self care.
• 14:51
  Cathi Spooner: Well, I think that means we have those strong relationships in our lives that help us navigate those bumps and get back up and dust ourselves off and and keep going.
• 15:06
  Cathi Spooner: Well, children need that.
• 15:07
  Cathi Spooner: That's their family.
• 15:08
  Cathi Spooner: And when we're looking at, um, how to help children and how to make that deep and lasting impact, then I think we need to consider the role of parents and the role of family in that change process.
• 15:27
  Cathi Spooner: The problem is a lot of our training is mostly folk, and I would say this even for adult training, um, especially the kind of, if you're using more of an adult individual counseling model with kids, with children or adolescents, I would say where you're kind of missing out on thinking systemically and how to facilitate those changes systemically for your child or adolescent clients.
• 15:55
  Cathi Spooner: So that, that brings us to my next point, which is who is the therapeutic agent of change for children.
• 16:04
  Cathi Spooner: Children spend the vast majority of their time with their families.
• 16:07
  Cathi Spooner: They need parents to create that foundation of safety and secure attachments with their children, uh, with their family, with their, sorry, with their children.
• 16:20
  Cathi Spooner: Children learn how to adjust to the needs of others in families.
• 16:24
  Cathi Spooner: They learn how to work through conflict.
• 16:27
  Cathi Spooner: They learn how to, Um, share, they learn how to help each other out.
• 16:35
  Cathi Spooner: They learn re I always used to say, I mean, I've said this for years, years, years.
• 16:41
  Cathi Spooner: I've been in the mental health field over 30 years now.
• 16:44
  Cathi Spooner: I've always said like your family, as you're learning laboratory for life.
• 16:48
  Cathi Spooner: You learn how to, if you're a kid, you learn how to deal with authority, adults, those in authority over you.
• 16:57
  Cathi Spooner: You learn how to deal with peers through your sibling, same, you know, sibling relationships, you learn how to navigate that life isn't always about you.
• 17:06
  Cathi Spooner: And sometimes it gets to be about you.
• 17:09
  Cathi Spooner: How do I get my needs met in, uh, when it's not always about me and I have to adjust sometimes to accommodate others.
• 17:17
  Cathi Spooner: How do we do that?
• 17:18
  Cathi Spooner: Well, you do that in your family.
• 17:20
  Cathi Spooner: And we know from research that all of these early experiences, influence our beliefs about others, our beliefs about ourselves, and our beliefs about how relationship works.
• 17:36
  Cathi Spooner: John Bowlby used, uh, called these our internal working models.
• 17:41
  Cathi Spooner: I would say, uh, you know, Daniel Siegel did a lot of work in that whole concept of interpersonal neurobiology where we influence each other mind to mind that even physiologically we influence one another.
• 18:01
  Cathi Spooner: And that's one of the things I've been reading through.
• 18:05
  Cathi Spooner: Um, the Brain Wise Therapist by Bonnie Badnock.
• 18:09
  Cathi Spooner: She, I hope I pronounced her name right.
• 18:11
  Cathi Spooner: Anyway, she published, this is an oldie but a goodie.
• 18:14
  Cathi Spooner: And to me it just like, this was just published like a couple of years ago, but it was back in 2008.
• 18:20
  Cathi Spooner: Really, really good book.
• 18:22
  Cathi Spooner: Daniel Siegel published his book Mindsight with his, his model of how to help um, it's kind of a theoretical model that he uses with, um, His clients are in proposal, even for parents and teaching kids how to use mindsight.
• 18:41
  Cathi Spooner: It's really about understanding that we resonate physiologically and we influence each other, um, on a neurobiological level.
• 18:54
  Cathi Spooner: And, um, that's what's happening in families.
• 18:57
  Cathi Spooner: They're influencing each other.
• 18:59
  Cathi Spooner: I always used to say, and I, I, you know, there's this, I hope this is going to make sense.
• 19:05
  Cathi Spooner: But so I, I would say families have characteristics based upon the individuals and the patterns that are passed along.
• 19:15
  Cathi Spooner: So, you know, you could say, Oh, the Jones family down the street, and you get a sense of the character.
• 19:22
  Cathi Spooner: And the ways of being in the Jones family.
• 19:25
  Cathi Spooner: Or maybe we have also the Smith family on the block and the Smith family have these other characteristics, right?
• 19:35
  Cathi Spooner: So you think about the parents and the kids and how they interact.
• 19:39
  Cathi Spooner: We have those because we influence each other.
• 19:42
  Cathi Spooner: We form our values.
• 19:44
  Cathi Spooner: We form our beliefs through those early relationships.
• 19:49
  Cathi Spooner: And so to me, conceptualizing who are the therapeutic agents of change for the child means that I'm taking into consideration all of these things and as part of my case conceptualization, how am I, um, assessing the strengths and areas of need in these family systems?
• 20:16
  Cathi Spooner: And for my child, for my client coming in, who's a child, how am I conceptualizing all of this as influencing what's going on.
• 20:28
  Cathi Spooner: So for me, that's why you make sure you do a really good, thorough case, uh, psychosocial assessment at that very first session to get you started.
• 20:40
  Cathi Spooner: Otherwise you will not really be gathering enough information to even begin to formulate even a fraction of understanding what the system is like and what's going on in the system.
• 20:56
  Cathi Spooner: And that's, so to me, that's the importance of doing that psychosocial assessment at the very beginning.
• 21:03
  Cathi Spooner: Because that's also going to help you figure out who is the therapeutic agent of change.
• 21:11
  Cathi Spooner: And what is going to be the role of parents in the play therapy process, which is going to be influenced by your theory model.
• 21:21
  Cathi Spooner: Um, for example, child centered play therapy is, is going to conceptualize just the child and what's going on with the child.
• 21:33
  Cathi Spooner: And parents are never going to be in the session.
• 21:37
  Cathi Spooner: If parents are in the session, it is not child centered play therapy.
• 21:41
  Cathi Spooner: Parents have a role.
• 21:42
  Cathi Spooner: You meet with parents in kind of, um, co parenting or not co parenting, but.
• 21:50
  Cathi Spooner: Um, those, um, oh, my brain is not working.
• 21:55
  Cathi Spooner: Those sessions just where you're meeting with parents.
• 21:59
  Cathi Spooner: So you can do kind of coaching those parent coaching sessions or, or back in the day, we would call them parent guidance where you're kind of just meeting with the parents and working on those parenting skills.
• 22:13
  Cathi Spooner: Other theory models, you, you can include parents in the play therapy process.
• 22:21
  Cathi Spooner: There are some theory models, it's just one parent and one child.
• 22:26
  Cathi Spooner: So that would be like Theraplay or Filial, they're just going to be one child.
• 22:32
  Cathi Spooner: And one parent, which is good.
• 22:34
  Cathi Spooner: I think those are really good models that the limitation is you don't get a sense of all the relationship dynamics.
• 22:42
  Cathi Spooner: You don't get a sense of how parents are navigating all of the different needs in the family system, especially if there's, um, you have, you know, sometimes siblings, You have family systems where siblings may have a pretty significant developmental delay.
• 23:02
  Cathi Spooner: Or maybe there's been a pretty significant health problem with one of the siblings and, and how are parents navigating all of those challenges?
• 23:14
  Cathi Spooner: How are the siblings managing these dynamics within the family system?
• 23:21
  Cathi Spooner: If your client is the sibling, then how are the siblings getting their needs met in a family that's probably pretty overwhelmed?
• 23:35
  Cathi Spooner: A lot of the time anyway, if they haven't figured out how to navigate these and gotten some really good supports in place to help out with some of the things that are going on.
• 23:48
  Cathi Spooner: So if you're considering what, who is the therapeutic agent of change, it'll be important to identify the role of parents and look at those sibling relationships and how parents are the therapeutic agent of change for your client as well as for the other siblings.
• 24:13
  Cathi Spooner: How is that being managed?
• 24:15
  Cathi Spooner: How are those relationships being managed?
• 24:19
  Cathi Spooner: Um, so I always think one of the most effective ways that play therapists and child and adolescent therapists can be a support to their client is to be that therapeutic agent of change for parents.
• 24:36
  Cathi Spooner: Which means you have to build that trust relationship with them where they will trust that you're not judging them.
• 24:45
  Cathi Spooner: You're not thinking they're a horrible parent.
• 24:48
  Cathi Spooner: Um, you're not thinking everything is all their fault.
• 24:53
  Cathi Spooner: Parenting is hard.
• 24:54
  Cathi Spooner: We know that as, you know, if you have kids, you know, parenting is hard and getting some support is always nice, right?
• 25:02
  Cathi Spooner: Um, so when we can be that therapeutic agent of change, that therapeutic support for parents, then they can turn around and use that support they've received and learn some skills and learn some strategies they can use that with their child.
• 25:22
  Cathi Spooner: So the third point that I wanted to talk about today really is, okay, so we now understand conceptualizing the role of parents in the play therapy process means I need to go back to my case conceptualization to understand what's going on and why is it happening.
• 25:44
  Cathi Spooner: And I need to use a theoretical model to, to help me understand what that problem is and what the patterns are because you're, you're case conceptualization is going to influence how you understand what the problem is and why is the problem happening.
• 26:04
  Cathi Spooner: And then when we do that, then we can better identify okay, so who is the therapeutic agent of change here?
• 26:11
  Cathi Spooner: And how can I engage parents in a way that's going to have some really deep impact for clients?
• 26:23
  Cathi Spooner: And what is that going to look like?
• 26:24
  Cathi Spooner: Because it's going to be based on the model that I'm using.
• 26:30
  Cathi Spooner: So how does all of that influence treatment planning?
• 26:33
  Cathi Spooner: So when you're including parents or even siblings in play therapy, then you need to use a framework.
• 26:39
  Cathi Spooner: which is going to be based on your theory model.
• 26:43
  Cathi Spooner: So having a framework that's grounded in a theory to guide your clinical decision making and understand how you're going and kind of define how are you going to, um, include parents?
• 26:59
  Cathi Spooner: What's the role of parents?
• 27:01
  Cathi Spooner: Like, for example, I, I developed, um, um, a model, I call it attachment focused family play therapy.
• 27:10
  Cathi Spooner: And one of the reasons I did that one systemically, I would say foundationally, one of my theory models is family systems that was like 30 plus years ago.
• 27:21
  Cathi Spooner: I grabbed onto that one and I, I would say, I think systemically with children.
• 27:28
  Cathi Spooner: But over the years I've also come to learn about attachment theory and neuroscience and interpersonal neurobiology.
• 27:37
  Cathi Spooner: And when you're working with children, they can't be their therapeutic agent of change.
• 27:42
  Cathi Spooner: They can't facilitate the change.
• 27:45
  Cathi Spooner: They need parents to be involved to do that.
• 27:49
  Cathi Spooner: And so, but I'm also a firm believer in sibling relationships and kind of looking at those dynamics.
• 27:56
  Cathi Spooner: And so when I was, when I was considering how am I going to, how am I going to do play therapy?
• 28:03
  Cathi Spooner: How can I make the most impact for children?
• 28:06
  Cathi Spooner: What am I realized I needed?
• 28:09
  Cathi Spooner: I needed a model that had enough flexibility and looked at the child in context systemically, but I also am a huge fan of attachment theory and neurobiology.
• 28:24
  Cathi Spooner: So I wanted something that kind of integrated family systems theory.
• 28:29
  Cathi Spooner: I, my, I had a really amazing experience learning in my, uh, learning about Bowen family systems theory.
• 28:37
  Cathi Spooner: This was way, way, way a few decades ago.
• 28:40
  Cathi Spooner: Um, when I was in graduate school, that was the, my field experience was in a family systems program that used Bowen Family Systems Theory.
• 28:50
  Cathi Spooner: So I really got to see the, the nuances of that model and I still kind of think that way because I, I think systemically through the generations to look at the different generational patterns.
• 29:02
  Cathi Spooner: So integrate that with play therapy and some of the other family systems models with attachment and neuroscience and to me that provides the theory model at to understand each stage of the change process and what is that going to look like?
• 29:21
  Cathi Spooner: What's the role of the therapist?
• 29:22
  Cathi Spooner: What's the role of parents?
• 29:24
  Cathi Spooner: What's the role of clients?
• 29:25
  Cathi Spooner: What are we going to be working on in each stage of the change process?
• 29:31
  Cathi Spooner: Which means what kind of interventions I'm, I'm going to need at the various stages and that is, that needs to be grounded on a framework, which is why I created the Attachment Focused Family Play Therapy model to be able to guide that decision making through the change process and how am I going to integrate parents and how am I going to help parents be that therapeutic agent of change by teaching them some attachment based, uh, play therapy strategies that they can use and practice in those family play therapy sessions.
• 30:09
  Cathi Spooner: So the other thing that you're thinking about when you're thinking about your treatment planning and what model you're going to use, you're also thinking about who's going to be involved in the sessions and how are they going to be involved in the sessions.
• 30:26
  Cathi Spooner: What you don't want to do is just have parents in the session, but you don't really have a plan.
• 30:36
  Cathi Spooner: You don't really know their role.
• 30:38
  Cathi Spooner: They don't know their role.
• 30:40
  Cathi Spooner: You're just kind of having them in there and you're kind of winging it and figuring out as you go along.
• 30:46
  Cathi Spooner: That may work for a little while, but it's not going to really be effective throughout the change process because you don't, you don't really.
• 30:57
  Cathi Spooner: have that foundation where you've explained to parents what their role is, what they're going to be doing in the sessions, what you're going to be doing in the sessions, what you're going to be doing with the child in the sessions, and how is that going to help get the goals, those treatment goals accomplished.
• 31:16
  Cathi Spooner: The things that parents want to be better by bringing their child to therapy, how they don't really know how all of this is going to help to accomplish that, because you haven't really explained the model.
• 31:31
  Cathi Spooner: You're just kind of winging it.
• 31:33
  Cathi Spooner: Um, which the nice part is, parents are involved, that part's good.
• 31:41
  Cathi Spooner: Having parents involved is really important.
• 31:45
  Cathi Spooner: Having a plan and having a framework for how you're doing that is critical in order to make those good changes.
• 31:54
  Cathi Spooner: Cause otherwise it just creates confusion and kind of undermines your ability if you're not really using a framework that's grounded in theory.
• 32:07
  Cathi Spooner: So that is it for today.
• 32:10
  Cathi Spooner: Um, let me just do a quick recap.
• 32:15
  Cathi Spooner: First, when you're conceptualizing the role of parents in the play therapy change process and you're using a neuroscience and attachment lens, then you recognize children exist within family relationships, family systems.
• 32:35
  Cathi Spooner: You're looking at their relationship with parents, they're looking at relationship patterns, values, traditions, all of those things that influence children their beliefs about themselves, others, and relationships.
• 32:52
  Cathi Spooner: So using your case conceptualization in order to figure out what to do, you first have to figure out what exactly is going on and why is it happening?
• 33:04
  Cathi Spooner: And in order to do that, you really need to have it grounded in some kind of theory model.
• 33:09
  Cathi Spooner: I like using neuroscience and attachment with the family systems lens because then that helps me conceptualize what, what the problem is and why is it happening.
• 33:21
  Cathi Spooner: So that way that then helps me figure out who's the therapeutic agent of change.
• 33:28
  Cathi Spooner: Um, so I'm using that neuroscience and attachment lens and if I'm using that lens with some family systems theory thrown in there then I'm recognizing the role of parents.
• 33:43
  Cathi Spooner: What is the role of parents?
• 33:45
  Cathi Spooner: I'm recognizing parents are the therapeutic agents of change for their children.
• 33:50
  Cathi Spooner: I am as a play therapist, I'm also kind of that therapeutic agent of change for the child and the parents.
• 34:01
  Cathi Spooner: But if I focus on being that support for the parents, then I can help them accomplish the goals that they want to achieve for their child.
• 34:10
  Cathi Spooner: And in that way, it's all in service of helping the child.
• 34:15
  Cathi Spooner: So the therapeutic agent of change, if you're, if you're, um, figuring out who is the therapeutic agent of change, you or the parents, that's going to be heavily influenced by your theory model.
• 34:32
  Cathi Spooner: So, and the third thing is, how does all of this influence treatment planning.
• 34:39
  Cathi Spooner: So once you conceptualize the role of parents in the change process for their children in play therapy, if you're using a neuroscience and attachment lens, then you're going to be able to figure out how to incorporate parents.
• 34:55
  Cathi Spooner: I would say even if you're using, I would say most of the play therapy models, you can, I look at most of the play therapy models and I think, Oh, there's neuroscience and attachment right there in the theory model.
• 35:11
  Cathi Spooner: Um, because some of the theory models, play therapy models do integrate.
• 35:16
  Cathi Spooner: They look at children in context, which I think is amazing.
• 35:20
  Cathi Spooner: Um, I get Leary and play therapy, Gestalt play therapy, um, theraplay, Filial therapy, other, um, child parent relationship therapy.
• 35:32
  Cathi Spooner: They look at child in context of, you know, family, some more specifically focused on just the attachment relationship between the child and the parent and not the whole system in and of itself.
• 35:45
  Cathi Spooner: But I think you can use a neuroscience and attachment lens for all of those.
• 35:50
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and then that's gonna, once you conceptualize the role of parents, because you also have looked at, What is the problem and why is it happening?
• 36:03
  Cathi Spooner: That's going to help you figure out how to incorporate parents.
• 36:08
  Cathi Spooner: What are you going to do in your sessions?
• 36:10
  Cathi Spooner: What are you going to say to parents?
• 36:11
  Cathi Spooner: How are they going to be involved?
• 36:13
  Cathi Spooner: Are siblings going to be involved?
• 36:15
  Cathi Spooner: If that's the case, what's that going to look like?
• 36:17
  Cathi Spooner: If children are from divorced parent homes or homes in which the parents were never married and they're not together anymore, how are you going to conceptualize that?
• 36:28
  Cathi Spooner: Can you have both parents in the play therapy session at the same time?
• 36:35
  Cathi Spooner: I typically don't, I mean, it would be the rare, rare, rare exception.
• 36:38
  Cathi Spooner: I typically recommend you just do like family play therapy with one parent's home and who's in that home and family play therapy with the other parents home and who is going to be involved in those sessions.
• 36:54
  Cathi Spooner: Um, but that's, that's going to be dependent on how you conceptualize the problem and what your theory model says is your way of going about implementing and facilitating that change process.
• 37:11
  Cathi Spooner: So, that is it for today.
• 37:14
  Cathi Spooner: I did want to mention if you're interested in learning about attachment focused family play therapy, um, I do have a book, it is called, this book, it's, it's Attachment Focused Family Play Therapy and Intervention for Children and Adolescents After Trauma.
• 37:35
  Cathi Spooner: This one is specifically focused on working with children who have experienced trauma, children and adolescents to use this attachment focused family play therapy model.
• 37:47
  Cathi Spooner: I use attachment focused family play therapy.
• 37:52
  Cathi Spooner: If I, I use it all the time.
• 37:54
  Cathi Spooner: Um, so it's, it's a good model to use regardless of the presenting issues.
• 38:03
  Cathi Spooner: And so I have, I also have a webinar coming up.
• 38:08
  Cathi Spooner: It's going to be on Saturday.
• 38:09
  Cathi Spooner: It's a live webinar on Saturday, September 14th.
• 38:14
  Cathi Spooner: I'm going to walk you through kind of an over grounding in the theoretical foundation of attachment and neuroscience.
• 38:24
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and systems thinking systemically as well, kind of ground you in the theoretical framework.
• 38:30
  Cathi Spooner: And then I'm going to, I'm going to walk you through each of the stages of the attachment focused family play therapy model.
• 38:40
  Cathi Spooner: I'm going to talk to you about what is the role of the play therapist?
• 38:43
  Cathi Spooner: What is the role of parents?
• 38:45
  Cathi Spooner: How do you choose interventions?
• 38:48
  Cathi Spooner: What, what is going to be accomplished in each stage of the change process?
• 38:55
  Cathi Spooner: We'll have group discussions.
• 38:56
  Cathi Spooner: We'll have some activities.
• 38:58
  Cathi Spooner: So if you are interested in learning about attachment focused family play therapy, then you're going to want to pop over to my website at rhplaytherapytraining.
• 39:12
  Cathi Spooner: com forward slash courses.
• 39:15
  Cathi Spooner: So renewing hearts, play therapy training, pop over to the courses page.
• 39:21
  Cathi Spooner: There's two options.
• 39:23
  Cathi Spooner: If you're available for the live webinar, you can register for the live webinar training.
• 39:31
  Cathi Spooner: If you're, if you're not available this Saturday on September 14th, then Or maybe you're outside of the US and it's just not a convenient time for you, but you really want the training, then there's going to be a recorded version.
• 39:49
  Cathi Spooner: You have to register for that one separately.
• 39:52
  Cathi Spooner: And that's because of the, the way that continuing, continuing education hours are, um, applied, they have to be two different registrations.
• 40:05
  Cathi Spooner: So if you're interested in the recorded version, you'll find that on the website.
• 40:12
  Cathi Spooner: Um, on the courses page, you're going to either have the live webinar registration, or you're If you want the training, but you're not available at that time, you can register for the recorded version.
• 40:26
  Cathi Spooner: And what I'm going to do is, uh, it'll be about a week, a week afterwards.
• 40:31
  Cathi Spooner: Once the training live webinar training is over, we're going to kind of get the, the video fixed up and prepared and then it's going to be It'll drop into your account when it's ready.
• 40:45
  Cathi Spooner: I'm anticipating that to be about a week before it'll be able to drop into your account.
• 40:52
  Cathi Spooner: So if you're interested, hop over there and register.
• 40:55
  Cathi Spooner: Registration is ending this week, so you probably want to sign up soon before it's not available anymore.
• 41:05
  Cathi Spooner: So again, attachment focused family play therapy.
• 41:10
  Cathi Spooner: You can find that training on rhplaytherapytraining.
• 41:14
  Cathi Spooner: com.
• 41:15
  Cathi Spooner: Pop over to the courses page.
• 41:18
  Cathi Spooner: And then register.
• 41:20
  Cathi Spooner: Also up here, I'm going to put links in the comments.
• 41:24
  Cathi Spooner: So if you're watching on Instagram, you can go in my bio.
• 41:27
  Cathi Spooner: There's a link there, pop over to my website or look in the comments and you'll see a link in the comments.
• 41:36
  Cathi Spooner: Alright, I'll see you next time.
• 41:38
  Cathi Spooner: Bye for now.
• 41:43
  Cathi Spooner: Thank you for joining me on this episode of Next Level Play Therapy.
• 41:48
  Cathi Spooner: I hope you found the discussion valuable and gained new insights and ideas to support your work helping children, adolescents, and families heal.
• 41:57
  Cathi Spooner: If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to the podcast and leave a review.
• 42:03
  Cathi Spooner: Your feedback helps to improve and reach more people who can benefit from this information.
• 42:09
  Cathi Spooner: Remember Play therapy is a powerful tool for healing and growth.
• 42:13
  Cathi Spooner: Whether you're a new play therapist or experienced, I encourage you to continue your learning journey to unlock the potential of play in your own work and relationships.
• 42:24
  Cathi Spooner: If you have any questions or topic suggestions for future episodes, I'd love to hear from you.
• 42:31
  Cathi Spooner: Connect with me on social media and visit my website at Renewing Hearts Play Therapy Training to stay updated on upcoming episodes, trainings, and resources.
• 42:44
  Cathi Spooner: Thank you once again for listening to Next Level Play Therapy.
• 42:48
  Cathi Spooner: Until next time, keep playing, learning, and growing.