Latest / Hangin' Out with Bob / The ‘Paul is dead’ rumor lives on; PLUS, the ’27 Club’ of musicians who left us way too early (with Luke Edholm)

Transcript

The ‘Paul is dead’ rumor lives on; PLUS, the ’27 Club’ of musicians who left us way too early (with Luke Edholm) · Hangin' Out with Bob

0:07
OK, welcome to Hanging Out with Bob, a podcast
0:10
hosted by me, Bob Edholm. Thanks for joining
0:17
us and let's get started. OK, listeners, I'm
0:21
going to throw out this date, November 9th, 1966.
0:26
Now, unless you were born on or before that date,
0:29
November 9th, 1966, It was literally before your
0:32
time. On the other hand, if you're a fan of the
0:35
Beatles and are just really good at remembering
0:37
dates, November 9th, 1966 will mean something
0:40
to you. Because it was on that date, November
0:43
9th, 1966, that Beatle Paul McCartney was supposedly
0:47
killed in a car crash on his way home from the
0:50
recording studio. The three other Beatles, John
0:53
Lennon, George Harrison and Ringo Starr, wanting
0:56
to save their fans from the heartache of losing
0:58
Paul and dealing with the loss of their bandmate,
1:01
decided to conceal the truth, perhaps not by
1:03
choice, and replace Paul with the winner of a
1:06
Paul McCartney lookalike contest. The story goes
1:09
that in the years following that tragic incident,
1:12
the remaining Beatles were wracked with guilt
1:14
and began leaving clues and messages in their
1:16
music and material to communicate the truth to
1:19
the fans. The Paul is Dead rumor is nearly 60
1:23
years old now, but it's still something fans
1:25
of The Beatles, fans of conspiracy theories,
1:28
or fans of urban legends in general like to talk
1:31
about. Joining me in this episode to talk about
1:33
the Paul is Dead rumor slash phenomenon slash
1:37
conspiracy theory slash urban legend slash hoax
1:40
is my nephew, Luke Athome. We're recording this
1:44
podcast episode from my palatial recording studio
1:46
here in Columbia Heights, Minnesota. Okay, okay.
1:49
We're sitting in a dining room table in my apartment
1:51
with microphones in front of us and headphones
1:53
over our ears. But if that ain't palatial, I
1:55
don't know what is. Yeah, well, it's great to
1:59
be here with you, Bob. I've wanted to record
2:01
one of these for a while, and this topic is something
2:04
that I think we're both very interested in, and
2:07
it'll be a lot of fun to talk about it. Yeah,
2:09
that's right. Now, although Luke is from the
2:12
Twin Cities area, he grew up here in Andover,
2:13
to be specific, he's actually visiting from his
2:16
current residence in Austria. Yeah, that beautiful
2:19
landlocked country in Central Europe, lying in
2:22
the Eastern Alps. Luke was back here in the States
2:24
for the wedding of his sister Rosa, and for this
2:27
podcast episode, of course. Of course. Luke holds
2:30
a PhD in mathematics from the Ohio State University,
2:33
and he's a teacher and researcher at the University
2:35
of Vienna. He and Katrin, or Kat, have an adorable
2:39
nearly two -year -old daughter, Hannah. Luke,
2:42
again, welcome to hanging out with Bob, or should
2:44
I say, hanging out with Uncle Bob. Yeah, as I
2:51
said, it's great to be here and I'm really looking
2:54
forward to this episode Yeah, it will be fun
2:56
now in this podcast episode Luke and I actually
2:59
going to talk about two topics The first topic
3:02
is the one we had already teased with the Paul
3:04
is dead rumor and the second topic and equally
3:07
interesting I think is about the 27 club which
3:10
refers to the phenomenon of popular musicians
3:13
Singers and singer -songwriters who died at age
3:16
27 often due to drug abuse, suicide, or violent
3:20
circumstances. Both topics were suggested by
3:24
Luke, and I can't wait to talk about the both
3:26
of them. Okay, part one of this podcast episode,
3:31
the Paul is Dead rumor. Now, Luke, you're a millennial,
3:34
just like my daughter and your cousin Gretchen.
3:37
You're both huge Beatles fans, and yet the both
3:40
of you were born more than 20 years after Paul
3:43
McCartney's alleged car crash in November of
3:45
1966. How did you come up with the suggestion
3:48
to talk about the Paulus Dead Roomer? Well, it's
3:51
something that that I've always I've been interested
3:53
in the Beatles since high school I've I've really
3:55
loved their music and when I got into their music,
3:58
you know My dad told me and probably you too
4:01
told me some of the some of the lore around the
4:04
Beatles and and this was this was one of the
4:06
big one of the big things that we talked about
4:10
My dad played Abbey Road for me and he showed
4:13
me the album cover and said, look, this is a
4:16
funeral, you know, it's a funeral procession.
4:20
And look how each is dressed. Yes, exactly. So
4:23
I think we'll go into the, I think later we'll
4:27
go in to all the details on the cover there,
4:29
but it was, it was something that I got really
4:32
interested in. Thinking about it now that I'm,
4:36
you know, got into this 20 years ago and seeing
4:40
the sort of the vast landscape that we have of
4:44
conspiracy theories now that are largely I think
4:47
fueled by the internet it's surprising and very
4:50
interesting to me how something like this would
4:53
have spread before the internet was and I looked
4:58
into a bit as to how this rumor propagated where
5:02
some of the where it started and some of the
5:05
some of the sort of mainstream publications even
5:08
back in the late 60s that touched on it. So I
5:11
think it's very interesting, just from a cultural
5:14
perspective. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree. And
5:17
just to provide you some context here, regarding
5:19
November of 1966, I your humble host was 13 years
5:24
old, an eighth grader, Lyndon Johnson was president
5:28
of the United States. The Baltimore Orioles had
5:31
just swept the Los Angeles Dodgers in the 1966
5:34
World Series. A gallon of gas, regular gas, was
5:37
about 32 cents. The Sound of Music had received
5:41
the Academy Award for Best Picture earlier that
5:43
year. The cost of a new car? About $3 ,500. Now
5:48
again, we have to consider inflation, but still,
5:51
it just sounds absurd now. So much has changed
5:54
since the mid -60s, and yet this Paul is Dead
5:56
legend lives on. Okay, Luke, let's take that
6:01
deep dive into how the Paula's Dead urban myth
6:03
came about. While it was alleged that Paul McCartney
6:06
had died on November 9th, 1966, the rumors really
6:10
took off in the fall of 1969, nearly three years
6:14
later. Between November 1966 and the fall of
6:18
1969, the Beatles are said to have covered up
6:21
the death, despite inserting a series of clues
6:24
into their songs and artwork of photos on their
6:26
albums. More on the clues in a bit. A little
6:29
bit deeper on the story itself, it goes that
6:32
at 5 a .m. on a Wednesday, November 9th, 1966,
6:36
Paul had left a recording session for the Sergeant
6:39
Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band album. He got
6:42
into his Austin Haley, a British sports car,
6:45
and subsequently crashed and died. As a result
6:48
of that accident and death, Paul was said to
6:51
have been replaced by a lookalike. called variously
6:54
do you know any of those names yeah yeah will
6:56
william campbell or more colloquially known as
6:59
billy shears yep yep that's that's who the look
7:02
-alike was he he became the new paul according
7:04
to the story and not to put a damper entirely
7:07
in the story but um and not to let facts get
7:10
in the way of a good story but between november
7:13
6th and november 19th of 1966 paul and former
7:16
girlfriend remember her name Linda Eastman? No,
7:20
before that. OK, I see. I don't remember Jane
7:23
Asher. Right. That's right. They were supposedly
7:26
on a holiday traveling to France and Kenya during
7:29
those days on November 6th and November 19th.
7:32
And if you believe the latter, that Paul was
7:34
out of the country with Jane Asher, then the
7:36
crash never happened. But like I said, don't
7:38
let the facts get in the way of a good story.
7:41
However, a couple of relevant incidents did take
7:43
place. First, on December 26th, 1965, The day
7:48
after Christmas, and almost a full year before
7:50
Paul was rumored to have died in his sports car,
7:53
Paul crashed his moped. You know what a moped
7:55
is? It's kind of like a scooter. It's got pedals
7:57
on it. He was in a crash on that, and as a result,
8:02
he had chipped a tooth, which you can see, I
8:04
think, in some videos of playing the paperback
8:06
rider in rain. And then he got a Developed a
8:10
scar on his lip from that accident. So he grew
8:13
out his mustache I was supposed to cover that
8:14
up that actually did happen and then on January
8:18
7th 1967 so about a couple months after the alleged
8:22
accident on November 9th 1966 Paul's Mini Cooper.
8:27
That's a British car. That's even smaller than
8:29
a Volkswagen Beetle Just a tiny little car. It
8:31
was involved in an accident on the M1 motorway
8:34
outside London However, the car was driven by
8:37
a Moroccan student named Do you know this guy's
8:40
name? Muhammad Haji. He was driving that car,
8:44
his Mini Cooper, and Paul was not in it. Haji,
8:47
he was an assistant to a London art gallery owner
8:50
named Robert Fraser. another person I'd never
8:52
heard of until I started researching this. Anyway,
8:55
those two guys, Muhammad and Robert, had turned
8:58
up at Paul's house on the evening of January
9:00
7th, 1967, and were later joined by three guys
9:03
you probably have heard of, Luke. They were members
9:06
of the Rolling Stones. Mick Jagger, Keith Richards,
9:10
and Brian Jones. Oh, and there's an antiques
9:12
dealer named Christopher Gibbs. He was also at
9:14
the party. This would be a great question in
9:17
a pub trivia quiz. Name the people at that party.
9:20
Anyway, the party decided to head to Jagger's
9:23
home in a city called Hartfordshire before moving
9:27
on to the Redlands, which is, I guess, a mansion
9:29
that Keith Richards owned in Sussex. And Paul
9:32
had traveled with Jagger in his Mini Cooper while
9:36
Haji drove Paul's Mini Cooper. The two cars became
9:40
separated during the journey. I don't know if
9:42
they were under the influence or what, but they
9:43
got separated. And Haji crashed Paul's Mini Cooper
9:46
and was hospitalized with injuries. And it was
9:50
a really heavily customized car, I guess, and
9:52
it was very recognizable. So the rumors began
9:54
circulating that Paul was the driver and had
9:56
died in that accident. But fortunately, no one
9:59
was killed from this specific incident. But that's,
10:03
I think, how the... They tried to associate it
10:05
with Paul as well. Had you heard about that story?
10:08
I had a little bit. I do know that going back
10:11
to, you mentioned 1969 is when the rumors picked
10:15
up. Yes. Even going back to 1967, in certain
10:19
Beatles fan magazines, they discussed this crash
10:22
and said there was a rumor of a car crash involving
10:27
Paul McCartney. So this was out there. And I
10:31
think it took a couple years before it really
10:34
picked up steam. This is where the the rumor
10:37
itself does go back a few years before 1969 and
10:41
probably because of this this crap. And the research
10:46
I did, maybe you came across some of the same
10:49
stuff, Luke, but the way this rumor really began
10:52
to take off, at least in the States, the first
10:54
known print reference was in an article written
10:57
by a guy named Tim Harper, which appeared in
11:00
the September 17th, 1969 edition of the Times
11:03
-Delphic, which is the newspaper of Drake University
11:06
in Des Moines, Iowa. Yeah. And he had written
11:09
this story about that incident. This is September
11:12
17th in 1969. That was just a month after Woodstock,
11:17
which was one of the largest musical festivals
11:19
in history. And just two months had passed since
11:22
the first moon landing, just to put that in context.
11:25
But back to Drake University student Tim Harper's
11:27
article, which asked, is Beatle Paul McCartney
11:30
dead? Harper later claimed that he wasn't the
11:33
original source for any of the claims in his
11:35
article. He said he was writing, Eric quotes
11:38
here, for entertainment purposes only. Harper
11:41
said he got the information from a fellow student
11:43
named d 'Artagnan Brown. Had you come across
11:46
that name? I didn't. He went to Drake University
11:49
and he was more than just a student. He went
11:51
on to become, I think he was a jazz musician.
11:54
I think he's also a writer and artist, but he
11:57
said he got the information from a musician who
12:01
had heard it on the West Coast in California
12:03
and that he had read the story in an underground
12:05
newspaper, although I couldn't find anywhere.
12:08
where this underground information, underground
12:10
newspaper came from. But anyway, a couple of
12:13
names, Tim Harper, a writer from the Times Delphic,
12:16
a Drake, and then D 'Artagnan Brown, a fellow
12:19
student there. The Paula's Dead rumors gained
12:21
momentum quickly though. In October, 12 1969.
12:25
Do you have this information about the DJ in
12:28
Michigan? Yes. Okay, why don't you talk a little?
12:30
Yeah, yeah. So there was a radio program that
12:33
was put on. And I think the station was WKNR
12:38
in Detroit. Yep. Yep. And a caller had called
12:42
in to sort of spill the beans about this. And
12:46
of course, the Beatles were huge at this time.
12:49
And this sort of a rumor is really, I think,
12:51
going to be shocking to people. And so I think
12:54
shortly after the caller, then the radio station
12:57
put on a two hour program entitled The Beatle
13:00
Plot. And I think this is where a lot of the
13:06
quote -unquote canonical clues that we know about
13:10
sort of entered the published consciousness.
13:14
Again, there wasn't the internet in those days,
13:17
and so there needed to be some method of propagation
13:21
for these clues to get out there and everybody
13:25
knew about it. Everybody knows about the Abbey
13:27
Road album cover. So yeah, this getting it on
13:32
the radio and getting it in magazines helped.
13:35
Yeah, this can tell to everybody. The radio presenter,
13:39
he's a DJ named Russ Gibb. And he had got a caller,
13:43
the caller that called in the station only went
13:45
by Tom. But he's the one that was saying, well,
13:48
he's the one that talked about if you play the
13:51
song Revolution Nine backward, backmasking is
13:54
what they call that. By the way, I've had stereos
13:56
before, but I never was able to get that to work
13:58
playing a record backwards. So I never I'll take
14:02
people's word for it. Yeah, the radio or the
14:05
record player that that's at my parents house,
14:07
you can just unhook the belt and you spin it
14:09
yourself. Okay, okay. do it manually yeah you
14:12
do it man yeah right right because there's no
14:14
gear on the button and it says reverse or whatever
14:17
so so you can play it so anyway tom had said
14:20
that um he said to backmask the number nine phrase
14:25
and that comes out to be turn me on dead man
14:28
or something that effect so and there was a student
14:32
reporter from the University of Michigan paper
14:35
called the Michigan Daily he wrote an article
14:38
about that radio show so that spread the word
14:40
as well and In fact, his name was Fred LeBourre
14:44
And he was quoted as saying after that article
14:48
years after he said he he invented William Campbell
14:51
the name he said I made the guy up It was originally
14:54
going to be Glen Campbell with two N's in Glen.
14:57
And then I said, that's too close. Nobody would
14:59
buy that. So I made it William Campbell. Thus
15:02
the name was born. The Michigan Daily published
15:05
Fred LeBour's article on October 14th, under
15:08
the title, McCartney Dead, New Evidence Brought
15:11
to Light. Although clearly intended as a joke,
15:13
he said, It had an impact far wider than the
15:16
writer and his editor expected. And then you
15:20
mentioned singing about the Beatle plot. Talk
15:21
a little bit more about that then. It was by
15:23
Russ Gibb, the DJ at the radio station. I think
15:27
that they went through a lot of the... I think
15:30
this caller brought to light some of... You know
15:33
some of these these different clues and and sort
15:36
of the the story I think I think november I'm
15:39
not sure about the original um november 9th date,
15:43
but actually there's um When we get into the
15:47
clues that the the numbers one one one x will
15:52
will um It appears on the it it appears on the
15:56
sergeant pepper drum Right when you hold a mirror
15:59
in the middle. All right, there's two ways to
16:01
interpret that It could be you know It's the
16:05
numeral one and then the letters one written
16:07
out and then the numeral one and then an X That's
16:10
what happens when you shine a mirror halfway
16:13
through the word lonely. Okay, okay now That
16:17
could be like well, there were four Beatles one
16:20
one one X and one of them's X doubt Yeah, the
16:23
other thing that you could consider is it's One
16:26
one so like eleven yeah, and then one X so the
16:30
Roman numeral nine now That's a stretch if you're
16:33
writing things in Roman numerals Then then you'd
16:35
have X and then one and then one and then X for
16:38
that not to mention the fact that in Britain
16:41
they write dates the day, then the month, then
16:47
the year. So it really would be September 11th
16:50
instead of 11 -9. But since this rumor was catching
16:56
on in the US, I think that that might have had
16:59
something to do with that particular date. I'm
17:02
not sure. But so these clues, it would be really
17:05
interesting if there was, I didn't look too hard,
17:09
but if there was actually some kind of recording
17:11
of that radio. of that radio show to hear exactly
17:16
what they talked about. You'd think WKNR or whoever
17:19
owns it now would have had it in archive. They
17:21
might have some kind of archive copy but you
17:23
know I don't know if it's available on the internet
17:25
but yeah it might be fun to write them and see
17:28
if we can get our hands on it. So I think that
17:33
this is where some of the clues came from and
17:35
then that article in the Michigan Daily was where
17:40
I think they wrote up a bunch of the a bunch
17:43
of the things that were discussed in this and
17:45
so I think things like Like the abbey road album
17:48
cover like the sergeant pepper's Um, yeah exactly
17:53
exactly Yeah, yeah. Now, the Beatles themselves,
17:57
by that I mean, John, George and Ringo, they
18:01
were not formally involved in creating the conspiracy
18:03
theory. It was really a fan generated phenomenon
18:06
that got it going. And it gained traction in
18:08
the late 60s. But the Beatles themselves didn't
18:11
exactly discourage it. It was kind of like pro
18:14
wrestling. It was like, okay, we'll just kind
18:16
of go along with it. They leaned into it. Yes.
18:19
I mean, even even the, you know, supposedly,
18:23
supposedly, I mean, of these rumors are you know
18:25
are I think kind of ridiculous, but the walrus
18:30
was supposedly a Scandinavian symbol of death.
18:33
Well, if you look this up, I don't think there's
18:36
any really, other than this rumor, I don't think
18:39
that the walrus has anything to do with death
18:41
in Scandinavian culture. And you've got some
18:43
Scandinavian, I've got some Scandinavian, I've
18:45
never heard that before. Right, exactly. So the
18:49
Beatles had their costumes in the Magical Mystery
18:52
Tour, and somehow it was rumored that well walruses
18:56
have to do with the death and Paul was the walrus
18:59
well John was the walrus in fact he was actually
19:01
wearing the costume yeah he was wearing the costume
19:03
and he's singing you know I am he's singing in
19:06
the song I'm the walrus but but as far as leaning
19:08
into this now yeah this would have also happened
19:11
in 1968 so before this stuff but when the white
19:15
album came out The song glass onion, which I
19:18
think people, you know, sometimes say a glass
19:20
onion is a, is it, is it actually known as a
19:23
coffin or is this something that also came from
19:25
this, you know, maybe like they have the body
19:28
on display behind glass or something, you know,
19:31
and John says in that he goes, well, here's another
19:34
clue for you all. The walrus was Paul. And, and
19:37
so then, you know, I mean, oh wow, he's really,
19:40
so it, it's not clear to me because the rumor
19:42
hadn't really picked up by this time yet. If
19:45
that was if that was meant to sort of push this
19:51
forward or if it was just some nonsensical lyric
19:57
that he put in that then was later reinterpreted
20:01
to be some kind of validation of this theory.
20:05
But people definitely interpreted it that way.
20:08
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Good point. Okay, Luke, we've
20:13
looked at how the Paul is dead rumor took off
20:15
in the fall of 1969. So now let's take a look
20:17
at some of the more notorious clues regarding
20:20
the Paul is dead theory, which again, claimed
20:22
Paul McCartney died in a 1966 car crash and was
20:26
replaced by a look alike with the Beatles leaving
20:28
clues in album art and lyrics. And to me, Luke,
20:31
this is the fun part when you actually read about
20:34
the clues and then you look at the albums themselves
20:36
and go, oh, okay, this is interesting. What is
20:39
the, I mean, to list a bunch of them, but is
20:41
there one clue, whether it's artwork or song
20:45
work that that sticks out to you the most? So
20:48
to me, the most remarkable clue is the one I
20:51
talked about that if you hold a mirror, oh yeah,
20:54
halfway through the Sergeant Pepper drum, yeah,
20:57
that base drum on the cover, sergeant base drum
20:58
on the cover, right? The it says lonely hearts
21:02
down the middle. If you cut that in half and
21:05
look at the mirror, now, you know, this was before
21:07
CDs were out, but I know I had the CD booklet
21:10
and the CD, so I could just do it right with
21:12
my CD. If you had the album, you'd actually need
21:14
to take a real mirror. So lonely, L -O -N -E
21:19
-L -Y. If you think about what that looks like
21:22
when you cut it in half and look at the top half
21:24
reflected, the L just becomes like the numeral
21:28
one. O -N -E reflected down the... Always symmetrical
21:34
E is symmetrical and isn't symmetrical but it's
21:37
still you know, it's still kind of looks like
21:39
an N So one one and then you think about heart
21:43
The Y The L becomes another one the Y you think
21:50
about the top of a Y that reflects down and looks
21:52
like an X So you got this one one one X now the
21:56
word heart H is symmetrical. So that just becomes
21:59
an H. Yeah E is symmetrical, so that becomes
22:02
an E. The A, it's just the top half of the A.
22:06
So what it is, it looks like an arrow pointing
22:09
up. Who's directly above that arrow? It's Paul.
22:13
Right. And then RTS, well, the R reflected down,
22:23
it looks like a D. The T reflected down, it looks
22:26
like an I. And the S, the way the way that it's
22:31
kind of cut off, it looks like an E. So it says,
22:34
one, one, one, X, he, arrow up at Paul, die.
22:38
And that's something that was probably not conceived
22:44
by the Beatles to put any clue like that in there,
22:46
but it is pretty remarkable that you can, if
22:49
you dig... hard enough, you can find things like
22:52
that. And that's, that's really, that's a really
22:55
crazy clue, I think. But yeah, the Sergeant Pepper
22:58
album cover just has so many things like this.
23:02
I mean, it's clearly a bear. It's a burial scene.
23:05
It's like a grave or funeral. Yeah, exactly.
23:07
I mean, I mean, where they had the coffin. Another
23:10
another important clue on that is they have a
23:14
they have a left -handed bass guitar with the
23:20
yellow hyacinth. I don't think this is too much
23:25
of a stretch. If you look at how the flowers
23:28
are arranged, it's in a bass guitar, and it looks
23:31
like it spells out P -A -U -L. with a question
23:35
mark. And so that's another clue that I think
23:38
really, once people kind of notice this, I think
23:42
really would have caught on. And then if you
23:45
open, Sergeant Peppers was one of the first things
23:50
with albums with a gatefold sleeve where you
23:52
could open it up and just let them have a really
23:55
big group photo shot. And it's the four of them
23:58
in their costumes, Paul's in the blue, and he's
24:02
got... a patch on his arm. What the patch actually
24:06
says is OPP, and it's something he picked up
24:09
in Canada. It says Ontario Provincial Police.
24:12
Right, but the way his arm is positioned, it
24:14
looks like OPD, which was then interpreted to
24:18
mean he's officially pronounced dead. D -O -A
24:23
here, right? Right, D -O -A here, right, right.
24:25
I think in Britain, though, that's more or less
24:28
equivalent. So you have those. If you turn Sergeant
24:33
Pepper over, Paul is backwards. Now the Beatles
24:37
did this sort of thing with him in a lot of their
24:39
photo shoots, where the rest of them would be
24:42
doing one pose and he'd be doing something different.
24:45
Okay, now going from there to saying, well, that's
24:48
a clue that he's dead. You know, maybe that's
24:50
a stretch, but - It was Billy Shears. Yeah, exactly.
24:53
So the three of them are standing forward with
24:56
Paul turned around. And Sergeant Pepper was also,
25:00
I believe, the first album that ever had all
25:04
of the lyrics to every song printed on the cover.
25:07
So right at the top of Paul's head is the lyrics
25:11
for Within You Without You. And then he's also,
25:18
then if you look at George's hand. George is
25:23
making, he's like making a pointing symbol. If
25:26
you look at all of them, what it really looks
25:29
like John, George, John and Ringo are doing is
25:34
they're spelling out love with their hands. And
25:36
Paul's backwards so you don't see his hand, but
25:38
you see an L and then a V and then an E. But
25:41
George is supposedly, pointing to the lyric Wednesday
25:47
morning at five o 'clock. And so that was, you
25:51
know, they're dropping the clues about what happened.
25:55
Right, exactly. Also on the album cover, you
25:57
know, you have the very front of the burial scene,
26:01
you have Shiva, the Hindu god. And so you've
26:05
got, you know, the symbol is... Shiva symbolizes
26:10
creation and destruction and I mean you can interpret
26:14
that what what you will I think I think that
26:18
You know, you know, this is just this is just
26:20
me looking into it The Beatles have their old
26:23
selves on the album tracks down there were themselves
26:26
I think probably what the what they originally
26:29
were going for was well the old Beatles the you
26:32
know, the the 60s version of a boy band that
26:35
was kind of clean -cut and wearing the suits
26:38
that has been buried. And now they're fully into
26:42
the 60s, fully into the, you know, the counterculture.
26:47
And that's what this was. But you get fans, many
26:51
of whom probably are, you know, taking mind altering
26:55
substances to, you know, oh, yeah, man, this
26:58
has got to be it. Yeah, of course he died. And
27:00
this has got to be what they're leaving these
27:02
clues for us. So another couple of things on
27:06
the album there. You have the Shirley Temple
27:09
doll that is wearing a sweater that says, welcome
27:12
the Rolling Stones. On that doll on one of the
27:18
legs is a, is a small car. And if you zoom in
27:21
really close, it looks like the interior of the
27:23
car is red. So symbolizing blood from this car
27:27
crash. So again, I think some of these, some
27:31
of these things are maybe a bit of a stretch,
27:33
but, but some of the clues are, I mean, it's
27:36
clearly a burial scene. The one, one, one X he
27:39
die is so. Crazy that it looks like that. I,
27:43
you know, I can really see how someone would,
27:45
would be like, okay, maybe, maybe there's something
27:47
to this. So yeah, I would say Sergeant Pepper,
27:50
you know, you also got to look any clues. Some
27:52
people try to retroactively find clues in even
27:57
going back to rubber sole or revolver. But if
28:00
you look, revolver came out August 5th, 1966.
28:04
So that's before, that's before Paul's death.
28:08
So, so I think if you're going to look at the
28:12
sort of canonical clues, you've got to look from
28:14
Sgt. Pepper on. So Sgt. Pepper, Magical Mystery
28:17
Tour, The White Album, Abbey Road. I don't know
28:21
how many clues, supposed clues, there were in
28:24
Let It Be. Yeah, I've never heard of any. Right,
28:29
right. We can continue going down the clues and
28:34
let, unless you have something else to say about
28:35
that. That's a good summary of the stuff that
28:37
I had as well. Oh yeah. They're day in the life.
28:40
There's he blew his mind out. Right. Right. Right.
28:42
I guess. Yeah. If we're, if we're going to talk
28:44
about, yeah, so we can, I guess talk about lyrics,
28:46
like as they go by album. So first of all, with
28:50
a little help from my friends, you know, um,
28:52
Ringo played, played Billy Shears or he sang
28:56
the parts and, you know, it's this introduction
28:59
to Billy Shears and, and. you know, he's got
29:01
the line, I'll try not to sing out of tune. So
29:04
Paul's got this new replacement. And he's, he's,
29:08
I think largely going to be a stand in for, you
29:11
know, the Beatles also stopped touring at this
29:12
time. And so, and so if they just got a guy in
29:16
for photo shoots and he wasn't really having
29:18
to sing or play the instrument, it, you know,
29:21
like, well, of course they stopped touring because
29:23
their, their bass player died. You have, good
29:29
morning, there's the lyric, nothing to do to
29:33
save his life, call his wife in. So, you know,
29:37
I guess, yeah, he was killed in this car crash
29:40
and nothing they could do. And then of course,
29:42
yeah, day in the life, he blew his mind out in
29:45
a car. He didn't notice that the lights had changed,
29:48
right? And just the kind of general, that song
29:52
has some, you know, it's really epic, but it's
29:57
also kind of sad. And, you know, it sounds like
30:02
it's lamenting something. And so if you listen
30:05
to it and kind of read into... Well, yeah, of
30:07
course they're they're mourning their their dead
30:09
beetle. Sure. So so I think I think that all
30:12
of that if you if you are looking for. evidence
30:17
that paul died your your brain is very good at
30:21
taking things and looking at them through a particular
30:25
lens and seeing well of course these are all
30:28
clues. Let's move on to magical mystery tour
30:33
which was released in november nineteen sixty
30:35
seven the cover that like you mentioned earlier
30:37
is got the four beetles in costumes. And the
30:40
rumor was that, well, first of all, the black
30:42
walrus symbolizes death. And John later sings
30:46
on the white album that walrus is Paul, even
30:48
though there was John wearing the costume. But
30:50
that was supposedly a clue. And then there's
30:52
a booklet that came with that album. And on page
30:55
three, there's Paul is sitting at a desk with
30:58
a sign that said, I was, which kind of symbolizes
31:02
that means I'm not alive. Right. Right. He was,
31:04
but he's not anymore. And then This one I think
31:09
we talked about. when we were texting back and
31:11
forth but in strawberry fields there's that phrase
31:14
at the end supposedly John is saying or a voice
31:19
real slow is going I buried Paul right but then
31:21
John later said I'm actually saying cranberry
31:23
sauce which I don't know what that has to do
31:25
with anything but he's kind of playing that down
31:27
but that often gets cited as a clue so yeah so
31:32
so some of the some of the lyrical clues you
31:35
know you could you could read into some of the
31:37
ones we talked about on Sergeant Pepper you can
31:39
kind of of read into them and say, oh, they're
31:41
talking about death or a car accident. Um, this
31:44
one is, is more direct and you don't have to
31:46
play the album backwards to hear this and listening
31:49
to it and both on the album version and on some
31:53
of the Beatles anthology where they do the same
31:56
thing. I think it does sound like I buried, but
31:59
there's plausible deniability because it's kind
32:03
of, you know, muttered and it's at the very end
32:06
and. Can't really tell and John was a goofy guy
32:10
anyway who might just say a random thing like
32:13
cranberry sauce, but it does sound like I buried
32:16
Paul. You certainly hear the berry part and then
32:19
something like sauce or Paul. So yeah, that's
32:23
definitely there. In the movie, and this is also
32:27
included in the booklet, in the song, your mother
32:32
would know, or your mother should know, they
32:35
have, they're all wearing suits. And they've
32:38
got carnations. And John, Paul, and George have
32:42
a red carnation. Paul's got a black one. So he
32:44
was always doing something different. But of
32:47
course, black symbolizes death in the morning.
32:50
There's one other thing that we didn't cover
32:52
on the Sergeant Pepper that I want to... There
32:54
are several pictures of Paul in official album
32:57
art where there's a hand that's over his head.
33:01
On the front cover. So on the front cover of
33:04
Sergeant Pepper, yeah, they do have this hand
33:07
over... his head. I think the hand belongs to
33:10
a British comedian named Issy Bon. Also sort
33:15
of in between Issy Bon's hand in his head there's
33:19
another famous British writer and poet named
33:24
Stephen Crane who died at a young age and he
33:27
wrote a song called or a poem or a short story
33:30
called The Open Boat which was based on his experience
33:34
surviving a shipwreck in which four men he and
33:38
three other men ended up in a lifeboat one of
33:40
them drowned and he hopped in and swam to shore
33:43
so and he's kind of barely visible between Issa
33:47
Ban's hand and his head and they're both of course
33:50
right above Paul so this was another another
33:53
thing but so The hand over the head, that was
33:56
also there in the Magical Mystery Tour booklet.
34:00
There's a picture of Paul and there's somebody
34:03
behind him is waving or cheering. So that was
34:07
something that wasn't just in one photo, I think
34:09
there's several photos of something like this.
34:15
Let's see, as far as, oh, the other photo, maybe
34:20
this is on your list to talk about too. It's
34:23
the four Beatles playing in the in the magical
34:26
mystery tour booklet and on Ringo's bass drum
34:29
It says love from the and it's something that's
34:33
scratched out And then next to the scratched
34:36
out is the number three love from the three Beatles
34:39
It says it there and paul paul's shoes are right
34:44
next to paul Or or shall we say william campbell
34:48
is standing there pretending like he's playing
34:51
the bass. He's barefoot and the shoes are right
34:54
next to the bass drum so yeah um you know i guess
34:57
he you know nobody could fill could fill the
35:00
real paul mccartney shoes and this was um you
35:03
know one one of the clues there but it really
35:05
does it really does look like love from the and
35:08
yeah something is scratched out it says three
35:10
beetles yep yep okay next is the white album
35:16
which was released in november of 1968 And the
35:20
first thing that I thought of, they're all songs,
35:22
so it's lyrical stuff that I'm thinking of, because
35:24
literally the album was white. I mean, it's just
35:26
a white cover. But the Glass Onion that you mentioned
35:29
earlier, where you said, here's another clue
35:30
for y 'all, The Wall Vs. Paul. The Revolution
35:34
No. 9, with the back masking. If you repeat,
35:38
it says, Turn Me On, Dead Man. And just the general
35:41
creepiness of that song. I remember the first
35:43
time I heard it, I go, this doesn't make any
35:44
sense. I was like 16. I'm going, what is this?
35:47
You know, I wasn't sure. You remember the song
35:49
I'm So Tired? Oh, yes. Yeah, because I think
35:52
that's where John supposedly said was that Paul
35:54
is dead man, miss him. Paul is a dead man. Yeah.
35:57
And then Ringo has a song from that album that
36:00
was Don't Pass Me By. Yep. Which is about a car.
36:04
Yeah, you were in a car crash and you lost your
36:06
hair. Yeah, which interprets as a reference to
36:09
the car accident. And then there were a lot of
36:12
photos and posters with this album. And I think
36:14
of that one where Paul is lying in a bathtub.
36:16
Yes. And makes you think that, you know, he's
36:18
like lying in a coffin right exactly yeah there's
36:22
the the photo collage that um you know if you
36:26
have the cd booklet they sort of cut it up and
36:29
you have to page through to look at all of it
36:31
but in the actual album it was a big poster yes
36:34
with all the stuff together and yeah the one
36:35
with him in the bathtub is i yeah that's it looks
36:39
yeah it looks like maybe he's you know yeah if
36:42
you if you use your imagination you can imagine
36:44
him lying in a coffin yep and so some backwards
36:48
messages there, like Revolution Nine has it.
36:50
And then I'm gonna have to listen to this again,
36:52
because I haven't paid that close attention to
36:54
it. But I guess the song transitions into Blackbird,
36:57
which I've always loved that song by Paul. But
37:00
I guess there's a lot of reverse messages if
37:02
you look for that. Are you familiar with that?
37:05
Yes, I am, and I think I've played it. So Blackbird,
37:09
this is still on. album one on the second side.
37:13
The song before that is, I think, maybe it's
37:17
so, yeah, I think it's I'm So Tired and then
37:19
Blackbird. And so I think at the end of, yeah,
37:23
in between sort of the transition between this
37:26
is where the Paul is dead man, miss him, miss
37:29
him, miss him comes in. Because Blackbird itself,
37:32
I just remember he's playing the guitar. There's
37:36
another kind of introduction I can think of,
37:39
but that was mentioned as some clues for that.
37:41
Since we're on the white album, here's a piece
37:43
of Beatles trivia that not that many people know.
37:47
Do you know anything unique about... I don't
37:52
want to give it away, but in the song, I will.
37:57
Does anything strike you as unique about this
38:00
song? Well, in that song, and if you listen to
38:03
it, Paul's doing the bass line with his mouth.
38:06
He's not playing the bass with his mouth, but
38:08
he's going doop, doop, doop, doop. Oh, okay.
38:11
So that's a little piece of Beatles trivia for
38:15
you. Paul is making the sounds of bass with his
38:19
mouth. Well, they were creative. Yes. Okay, let's
38:25
go on to Abbey Road the next out and that was
38:26
released in September of 1969 and Let's talk
38:30
about the front cover because that that's just
38:32
amazing First of all, the it's like a funeral
38:35
process. Yes, exactly what each of those guys
38:38
were wearing Yeah, well John's wearing white
38:40
and so he's like the priest or the religious
38:43
figure and he's leading the procession followed
38:46
by Ringo who's in black He represents the undertaker.
38:51
Paul is barefoot, out of step. Remember, Paul
38:54
was supposedly a left -handed guy. He's got a
38:57
cigarette in his right hand. And George is in
39:02
denim, and he represents the gravedigger. And
39:06
like you said, all of them have their left foot
39:09
forward, except Paul. He's got his right foot
39:11
forward. And it's like, oh, that was interesting.
39:16
The notorious license plate. It looks like a
39:19
beetle. It looks like it says 28 IF. So he would
39:23
have been 28 if he would have lived. Well, Paul
39:25
was born in 1942. So I think he would have been
39:29
27. But I guess the next year he would have been
39:31
27. And then have you heard what the LMW stands
39:35
for before the 28th? I don't i don't know what
39:39
it is linda mccartney. Linda mccartney weep yeah
39:46
that's right yes yes and the back cover is really
39:50
interesting as well you can see a woman and kind
39:53
of on the right side of the back cover. wearing
39:56
a blue dress walking by she's kind of out of
39:58
focus right but on that on the there's like a
40:01
brick wall and there's several things on there
40:03
that i thought were interesting first of all
40:05
there's a a set of tiles that spells out beetles
40:08
yep but the s at the end has a crack running
40:11
yes so it's almost like the beetles have split
40:13
up right right which they were about yeah yeah
40:16
yeah and then to then this is one that i completely
40:19
forgot about till i saw it to the left of those
40:21
tiles that spells out beetles there are eight
40:24
dots you can see when you connect those dots,
40:28
again this is a stretch, if you connect them
40:29
you can get a three out of it. And that means
40:32
three Beatles, which we talked about before.
40:36
And then another one I didn't see till I researched
40:38
this. I've had that album for over 50 years but
40:41
I never looked at that closely. To the right
40:43
of that Beatles tile almost looks like a... Like
40:46
a skull looking at Beal's. Yes, in the shadow.
40:51
Yes, exactly. I've seen that one before. Again,
40:55
it's kind of a stretch, but if you look at it
40:58
the right way, you can see a skull there. I think
41:02
Abbey Road, because it would have come out around
41:05
the time this rumor was really going to pick
41:08
up steam, that this is maybe the most iconic.
41:12
Sergeant Pepper, I think is clearly, I mean,
41:14
it's very clearly some sort of burial scene.
41:18
And there are some pretty remarkable clues, but
41:20
Abbey Road, this is probably the most iconic.
41:26
picture that the Beatles, either that or, it's
41:30
hard to say, either that or Abbey Road is the
41:32
most iconic album cover they had. But both of
41:35
them seem to have, Paul is doing something different
41:40
in this picture, just like he was backwards on
41:44
the back of Sergeant Pepper. And I guess that
41:48
means that he's... dead yep no longer with us
41:52
so some other some i mean some of the thing you
41:55
know if you if you look at lyrics on some of
41:57
the songs i mean again this is this is a stretch
42:01
but i've seen this you know even even the come
42:04
together right now over me well they they you're
42:08
closing the closing the coffin on it and the
42:10
coffins coming together you know so again probably
42:13
a stretch but if you're if you're looking for
42:16
if you're looking for validation of this yeah
42:18
then it's there are you at all familiar with
42:25
the album literally came out in 1966 but it was
42:27
called yesterday and today yes there are several
42:30
versions of that cover yes i remember the original
42:32
one it was pretty grisly it showed the Beatles
42:34
yeah they were wearing like white coats like
42:37
they were in a butcher shop and it was mixed
42:39
with a bunch of baby parts and yeah raw meat
42:44
and and then Dolls that were caught up in baby
42:47
dolls. Yeah in the pieces, right and it's a butcher
42:49
album Yeah, and and I remember they took that
42:51
off the shelves in America and they had a different
42:53
one where they were like Paul was sitting inside
42:56
sitting inside of a Trunk which could have been
42:57
maybe like a coffee I don't know, but they had
42:59
a couple different version, but I've heard that
43:02
sometimes linked to Paul as well So I can't remember
43:05
exactly when that was released in 66 because
43:08
you know Supposedly the death was in November
43:10
9th, right? They do mention that sometimes is
43:12
like what was the purpose of that cover? Right,
43:15
right. You know, it just kind of, I mentioned
43:17
the 111X and how if you're using the American
43:21
date system and then mixing a regular numeral
43:25
system, Roman numerals, you get 11 -9. But in
43:29
the British system, then it's 9 -11. Well, I'm
43:31
surprised that of all the different 9 -11 conspiracies
43:34
out there that this may be, you know, oh, they
43:37
were predicting that, you know. Well, have you
43:40
seen that Supertramp album? Yeah. What is it
43:43
called? Where it has a waitress on it. Oh, sure.
43:45
And it's got New York City in the background.
43:48
And if you look at, if you look at, it's spelling
43:51
out Supertramp, it has 9 -11 right behind where
43:55
the World Trade Center is. So that's, you know,
43:57
that's another, you know, we're not talking about
43:59
that, but, you know, the album covers. do have
44:03
some crazy coincidences yeah yeah exactly exactly
44:06
so all right well these clues they're part of
44:09
a wider largely fan -driven theory reviewed as
44:12
quote unquote intentional breadcrumbs left by
44:15
the band though they're generally considered
44:17
coincidental or jokes by the Beatles And while
44:20
these glues fueled a massive 1969 conspiracy,
44:24
which we've been talking about for the last several
44:25
minutes, Paul consistently dismissed them. He
44:29
even humorously came out with an album in 1993
44:33
called Paul Is Live. And there was also Life
44:38
Magazine actually sent somebody out because for
44:42
a couple months after the Drake University, University
44:46
of Michigan paper and the Detroit radio program,
44:50
I think the Daily Mail even put out some kind
44:52
of addressing this and then the rumor was going
44:56
for a few months and in November of 1969, Life
45:01
magazine sent someone out to Paul McCartney's
45:03
farm exactly and they took a bunch of pictures
45:08
of them and the story goes I think he got really
45:11
upset that they were there taking pictures of
45:13
him and he demanded the pictures and then agreed
45:16
to give an interview in exchange for them giving
45:20
up the photos that they took and he did give
45:22
an interview and in this he said no I'm very
45:25
much alive and this is all all ridiculous but
45:28
and so maybe at that point, some of the rumor
45:32
died down. But I mean, we're talking about it
45:35
almost 60 years later. Yep. Okay, this next section
45:40
is this next segment, Luca, we'll call it maybe
45:42
the Mythbusters segment. And we'll talk about
45:45
some of these clues and then how they've kind
45:47
of been explained away or shown what really happened.
45:51
I think first and foremost is, there's really
45:54
no evidence of a crash. Just despite the theory
45:58
claiming the accident happened in 1966. There
46:02
are no police reports, no hospital records, no
46:05
news stories at that time, no death certificates
46:09
from that time to support a fatal car crash.
46:12
Then there's something called double logic. It's
46:15
considered implausible that a lookalike, William
46:18
Campbell, Billy Shears. could perfectly replicate
46:21
one, McCartney's unique singing voice, two, his
46:24
songwriting talent, three, his bass playing ability
46:28
and left -handed to boot, and then Paul's personality
46:31
without anyone in the inner circle, family, friends
46:34
saying, you know, Paul's just not the same, something
46:37
like that. So it's like, okay. And then the physical...
46:40
Well, they did stop touring. They did. So maybe
46:42
they had session musicians actually playing the
46:44
stuff. I know they talked about some physical
46:48
evidence as well. Proponents often cite the 1966
46:51
car accident, but photos used to show a hidden
46:54
injury are actually from a 1965 motorcycle accident
46:58
where Paul chipped a tooth and cut his lip. That
47:00
was from that. And then the Abbey Road misconceptions.
47:05
Paul kind of gave some lame excuses because I've
47:07
seen pictures of that before they actually crossed
47:09
the street and took the formal pictures. Paul
47:11
was wearing a pair of like sandals, right? He
47:14
was standing there because it was probably hot.
47:15
It was hot. And that's why he took and he said
47:17
he took him off to be comfortable. Well, no,
47:19
then you wouldn't be doing that. And then I think
47:21
purposely holding a cigarette in his right hand.
47:24
Let's mess with them. Let's have some fun. Yeah,
47:26
I think that's probably what happened. And then
47:29
you had mentioned earlier too, Luke, that the
47:32
28 -if, he actually would have been 27 in 1966,
47:36
but again, let's not let the facts get in the
47:38
way. And in fact, I think really it's LMW and
47:44
then... two, eight, and then one, and then an
47:48
F. So it's not even an I, but it looks kind of
47:52
like an I. And then just the productivity of
47:55
this look -alike. He wrote songs like Penny Lane
48:00
and Hey Jude after Paula died, and then the massive
48:03
body of work, over 25 original studio albums,
48:06
either as a solo artist or with wings. So this
48:10
look -alike, he was so prolific. and then I don't
48:16
know maybe you've seen some stuff where they
48:17
talk about physical changes and that they say
48:19
that there's some subtle differences in photos
48:23
the shape of his ears the cut on his the chipped
48:27
tooth and I think he had this cut on his lip
48:29
I mean that did show up and it wasn't there in
48:31
the early Beatles pictures right I think people
48:33
cited this that was by the the moped right exactly
48:36
right so okay So the cover -up, it would require
48:41
the complicity of the remaining Beatles. They
48:43
all had to sign some non -disclosure agreement.
48:46
Managers, roadies, record executives, police,
48:49
all of whom would have to keep this secret for
48:51
decades, which is logistically improbable. And
48:55
then Paul's own response. I mean, he came out
48:56
with that album. Paul was live. By the way, I
48:59
don't think I've ever listened to that. I haven't
49:01
either. It came out in 93. So I think really,
49:04
Paul's dead theory persists largely as an entertaining
49:07
pop culture. urban legend rather than a credible
49:10
evidence -based crime. It's just fun. From a
49:13
meta perspective, the interesting thing is how
49:17
I think human nature likes to... Search for see,
49:22
you know secret secret clues You know, especially
49:26
you think about the the late 60s the the widespread
49:29
distrust for society Yeah, people were looking
49:32
for things like this. This is before the internet
49:35
now Anybody can find conspiracy theories about
49:38
anything. Yeah Back then it was a little bit
49:42
more I mean people could suspect things but then
49:45
once a few print magazines and radio programs
49:48
start talking about something then then there's
49:51
such a smaller amount of information at your
49:53
fingertips that you really could get sucked into
49:56
something like this. Good point. Good point.
50:01
And then let's not overlook the impact that the
50:04
Paul is Dead Rumor had on record sales. Abbey
50:07
Road, that album that was released in September
50:09
69, just as the rumors were peaking, became an
50:12
immediate commercial success. It reached number
50:14
one both in the UK and in the US. I remember
50:17
I bought it right away and I didn't always buy
50:19
albums. but that one I had to buy, I just had
50:21
to have it. And then John Lennon himself had
50:25
acknowledged that while the rumor was insane,
50:28
he did admit that it provided invaluable publicity
50:30
for Abbey Road. It's like, man, this really helped
50:33
with the sales. Here's kind of a fun look in...
50:40
2009, which was 16, 17 years ago, they had a
50:44
top 10 list of enduring conspiracy theories,
50:46
or 10 of them. I don't know if I'm going to list
50:48
all 10 of them, but do you have an idea where
50:50
the Paul is dead rumor would have listed among
50:52
the top 10? I mean, I guess it's behind the JFK
50:57
assassination. And I guess this was eight years
51:00
after 9 -11, but I think 9 -11 was probably,
51:03
I'm guessing, I would put it behind those two,
51:07
but I would probably put it maybe in the top
51:10
five. No, that's a good logical guess. It was
51:13
actually number four out of 10. Number three.
51:16
And this one, I've got to admit, I haven't thought
51:18
much about or wasn't even aware of it. It was
51:21
called Area 51 and the Aliens. That's a belief
51:23
that the U .S. Air Force base in Nevada has hidden
51:26
evidence of extraterrestrial life and technology.
51:29
Number two is the 9 -11 cover -up. That's the
51:32
theory that the U .S. government had foreknowledge
51:34
of the attacks or was directly involved in a
51:36
false flag operation. And number one was the
51:38
JFK assassination. The belief that Lee Harvey
51:41
Oswald did not act alone or was a patsy for the
51:45
CIA. off your KGB. I would almost guess if that
51:48
list it was remade for today that those would
51:52
probably be one and two but 9 -eleven would probably
51:54
be number one. Yeah yeah yeah yeah so that was
51:57
interesting out of the top ten it was number
51:59
four. Well, Luke, I always enjoy talking about
52:05
anything that's Beatles related and thanks for
52:08
suggesting this topic. It was really fun researching
52:10
I mean, I remember a lot of stuff because I was
52:12
actually alive when it happened But you know,
52:14
it's been a while and just to go and research
52:17
stuff. It's like, oh, I forgot about that, right?
52:20
It's really been a blast doing that. So and I
52:23
think the reason it's still popular is it's just
52:25
it's entertaining I think people it's a suspension
52:28
of disbelief. Yes, it's kind of fun to go along
52:30
with it say, okay, but what's gonna happen here
52:32
is right and I want to ask another thing, and
52:35
I think you've mentioned it a few times, but
52:37
what would it have been like if the Paula's Dead
52:39
Room had started today with social media? Would
52:42
it have gotten even more popular or would it
52:45
have faded eventually? Right. Well, I guess we
52:48
have social media and the internet. creates in
52:54
some ways it would really fuel it because there
52:57
would be anybody with a social media account
53:00
could sort of get on something and really all
53:05
of a sudden you get a Twitter account with all
53:08
these likes and comments about, hey, of course
53:11
this really happened. On the other hand, there
53:13
would be a lot more pictures available where,
53:15
oh, you see them walking around. but now that
53:19
we're getting into the era where we've got AI
53:21
and it's hard to tell the difference, well, now
53:24
it's, in fact, I think what AI is gonna do is
53:27
it's gonna get good enough. It's already getting
53:30
there where you can't tell a real photo from
53:33
something that's generated by AI. So I think
53:38
that if in 2026, If the Paul is dead rumor happened
53:44
with, you know, similar circumstances to what
53:47
happened back in 1969, it would really take off
53:50
and probably even be crazier than it was back
53:54
then. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. It made me think
53:57
about that because I thought how long ago it
53:58
was. I go, what if it happened today? What would
54:00
the result be? So I'm going to give you the last
54:03
word on this topic. Luke, what are your favorite
54:06
takeaways when someone mentions the Paul is dead
54:09
rumor? What fascinates you the most? Well, just
54:12
how cool some of the clues are, you know, I'm
54:16
going to come back to it again, the holding the
54:18
mirror in the middle of that bass drum and seeing
54:21
it spell out one, one, one, X, he die, you know,
54:25
that's, it's kind of like the, it's kind of like
54:28
the dark side of the rainbow. When you mix, you
54:32
start dark side of the moon at the second war
54:35
of the the second Roar of the Lion in Wizard
54:38
of Oz. The album is, there are several places
54:42
where it is, it's crazy how synced it is. It
54:45
shows, it says up, up, up, and they walk up some
54:48
steps and down, they walk down, it says black
54:51
and blue and they switch between the Wicked Witch
54:53
of the West and Dorothy. It's really remarkable
54:57
that it lines up like this and that somebody
55:00
thought of this. But then you think about how
55:02
much effort would it have taken to Unless we
55:06
live in the matrix and all this, some people
55:10
might think that, but how much effort would it
55:13
take to create something, hey, we're gonna make
55:15
this album and we want it to line up to the Wizard
55:18
of Oz, or we're gonna make this album and we're
55:21
gonna put these clues where we're gonna say lonely
55:24
hearts because if you put a mirror through it,
55:26
it looks like this. When you think about... How
55:30
much effort would have to go into doing something
55:33
like that? It just doesn't just doesn't really
55:34
make that much sense. But as you said, it's fun.
55:39
It's fun. It's fun to suspend your, you know,
55:42
disbelief. Yeah, exactly. And and just think
55:45
about, well, hey, you know, there are these all
55:48
these hidden clues, I think, I think there's
55:50
an intrinsic drive in people to look for hidden
55:55
information, see what you can see what you can
55:58
find that's not maybe surface level, you dig
56:01
a little deeper. And I think that's why this
56:04
is still being discussed, you know, almost 60
56:07
years on. Yep, yep. Good point. You know, if
56:11
Paul McCartney is still the actual Paul McCartney,
56:14
which I believe he is. I do too. Then he's now
56:19
84, so he's made it 20 years past his When I'm
56:23
64 song. Yeah, it's amazing, it's amazing. Okay,
56:29
now Luke and I are going to shift gears from
56:31
the Paula's Dead rumor to an equally interesting
56:34
topic, and that's the 27 Club, which refers to
56:37
a phenomenon of popular musicians, singers and
56:40
singer -songwriters who died at age 27, often
56:44
due to drug abuse, suicide or violent circumstances.
56:47
And Luke, what made you think of this as a topic?
56:50
I mean, I think it's a great idea, but what made
56:51
you think of the 27 Club? Well, we talked about
56:54
Paul's dead rumors, and you know, so I thought
56:57
of another topic about musicians and dying at
57:03
a young age, except these are people that did
57:07
actually die. And when I was in college, in undergrad,
57:13
I had a poster of the 27 Club with five faces
57:17
on it. You had Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison. Brian
57:22
Jones, Janis Joplin, so all them died in the
57:25
early 70s, and then Kurt Cobain was also on it,
57:29
you know, died in 94. And there are other people
57:33
that... died at 27, other celebrities and musicians,
57:37
actors and actresses. Um, I think Amy Winehouse
57:40
died at 27, you know, um, you know, maybe what,
57:43
about 15 years ago now, probably. Yeah. But I
57:46
think that those, I mean, it was originally the
57:49
four and then Cobain that, you know, he was a
57:52
big enough musician. I kind of revived it or
57:53
almost kind of gave it a second wind. Well, it's
57:57
good you mentioned that. I'm going to, I'm going
57:58
to limit this just to music because there are
58:00
some 27 actors and writers. or whatever, but,
58:04
and I'm just gonna go through the list that I
58:06
found of the 27 club. First one is Brian Jones,
58:10
you know, the founder of the Rolling Stones.
58:13
He died on July 3rd, 1969, 27, of course. And
58:17
the official cause was drowning in a swimming
58:20
pool. He had a farm in... Cotchford, England
58:24
in East Sussex, England. The coroner's report
58:27
officially ruled the death as death by misadventure,
58:30
citing the influence of drugs and alcohol. I
58:33
know he was, I remember reading Keith Richards
58:36
biography life and he spent a lot of time talking
58:39
about Brian Jones and his problem with drugs
58:41
and alcohol. If Keith Richards says you have
58:44
a problem with drugs and alcohol, then you do.
58:47
Yeah, right. Do you remember the name of his
58:50
girlfriend? She's the one who found him. in the
58:52
pool. I forgot her name. Her name was Anna Wolin.
58:56
W -O -H -L -I -N. She's the one who actually
58:58
found him. And he had just recently been dismissed
59:02
or fired from the Stones. You know, Richards
59:04
and Jagger said, no, we just can't carry on anymore.
59:07
He was really reduced to on some of the later
59:09
albums. He was like an instrumentalist. He played
59:12
You know, the bongos or the flute or something.
59:14
He wasn't, you know, played a lot of instruments.
59:17
Yeah. Yep. Yep. And there was one bit of controversy,
59:20
I guess, in his death. There was a builder named
59:23
Frank Thurgood who was present at the house that
59:26
night. And supposedly on his deathbed, he told
59:31
the Stones tour manager at the time, Tom Keylock,
59:34
that it was me that did Brian. Yes, I've heard
59:36
that too. Evidently, they haven't gone any further
59:39
with that story. But that was interesting about
59:42
Brian Jones. The next one I've got, I'm kind
59:47
of doing this in chronological order, is Jimi
59:49
Hendrix. He died on September 8th, neat. September
59:53
18th, 1970 in London from accidental asphyxiation.
59:58
And I remember when I first heard this, it almost
59:59
made me gag. He choked on his own vomit while
1:00:02
he was intoxicated with barbiturates. He was
1:00:06
found unresponsive in the Sammican Hotel and
1:00:09
pronounced dead at the local hospital. Same way
1:00:12
Bon Scott went. Yeah. I think he was a bit older
1:00:14
than 27. Yeah. Yep. Yep. And the cause of death
1:00:19
was just what it said, asphyxiation due to influence
1:00:23
of barbiturates. What are your thoughts on death
1:00:26
of him when you heard about how he died? Well,
1:00:30
I guess it doesn't, I think like a lot of those
1:00:34
musicians, they did really abuse themselves and
1:00:37
their bodies. I guess I haven't heard if there's
1:00:41
any controversy around his death. I don't think
1:00:44
anyone thinks, oh, he was secretly killed and
1:00:46
then they framed it like this. I guess being
1:00:50
born 17 years after this, I never got to experience
1:00:54
him as a living musician. I can imagine how people
1:01:00
would have been really shocked. It was because
1:01:02
I was a senior in high school and it was huge.
1:01:04
You have someone like Brian Jones. And I mean,
1:01:07
you know, he was a founding member of the Rolling
1:01:09
Stones. Some of the early stuff, he was a big
1:01:11
part of the group, but he did kind of get pushed
1:01:14
by J. Richard Richards. And so, you know, you
1:01:16
have a guy that's a third or fourth wheel of
1:01:19
the band and he dies in the swimming pool. It's
1:01:21
like, yeah, it's sad. But you got a guy like
1:01:23
Hendrix who's at his absolute prime. Oh, yeah.
1:01:26
This was what? less than a year after Woodstock
1:01:28
and all of a sudden he's dead and he died in
1:01:31
a pretty terrible way. Choking on your own vomit
1:01:35
is a bad way to go. That's all I have to say
1:01:39
on it. I didn't live through it, but I can imagine
1:01:41
that it would have been huge news. Then the next
1:01:47
one chronologically was Janis Joplin. singer.
1:01:50
She died on October 4th, 1970. That was an acute
1:01:54
heroin overdose, which was also a shame because
1:01:57
she was very popular and everybody seemed to
1:02:00
love her. Her music was great. Let's move on
1:02:05
to the next person. I'm sure you've heard of
1:02:07
Jim Morrison from the Doors. Once or twice. That
1:02:10
was a big deal too when that happened. It was
1:02:12
the summer of 71 July 3rd, and I can remember
1:02:16
that. guys are talking about that he supposedly
1:02:19
are they listed as heart failure rates, but it
1:02:22
was in France and they never did an autopsy.
1:02:25
Right. And there's been rumors that it was actually
1:02:27
more from like drugs than drugs or I yeah, I've
1:02:32
heard drugs speculated. He he was a horrendous
1:02:37
alcoholic. If you've seen any pictures of him
1:02:39
toward the end of his, toward the end of his
1:02:41
life, he got to be obese. He was, he went from
1:02:45
being, you know, he's got his shirt off and the
1:02:47
first Doors album cover, you know, he's, he's
1:02:49
not a skinny guy, you know, he's kind of muscular,
1:02:51
but, but, you know, he wasn't fat at all. By
1:02:54
the time this album, you know, LA woman and then
1:02:57
LA woman, he had the beard, the full beard. So
1:03:00
you couldn't really see how fat his face was.
1:03:02
The last ever photo of him. He had a, he was
1:03:05
cleanly shaven and he, he looks like he's, you
1:03:08
know, 47. Well, he looks old and he looks like
1:03:10
he's, you know, 280 pounds. So I, you know, I,
1:03:14
I think he was a guy who it could have been an
1:03:18
acute overdose of, of, of drugs or alcohol, or
1:03:22
it could have been just, you know, several years
1:03:25
of, of. abusing his body horribly. And then maybe
1:03:29
he did just have a heart attack or something.
1:03:31
Yeah. Yeah. He was buried in that famous, I think,
1:03:34
Pierre, Pierre Lachey. I think that's what it's
1:03:37
called in Paris. And I know he had a headstone,
1:03:39
but that was stolen decades ago. And a lot of
1:03:42
people make a point to visit that too. And they
1:03:44
go, right. We see Jim Morrison's grave. So yeah.
1:03:48
All right. The next one I've got listed here
1:03:50
was Kurt Cobain, the front man from Nirvana.
1:03:53
And that was, that was several years. years later,
1:03:55
I was in April 5th, 1994, the date before my
1:03:58
birthday. And that was supposedly, well, they
1:04:02
ruled it as suicide. Right. But there's also
1:04:06
been some controversy that it could have been
1:04:08
a homicide, too, as well. So they have like possible,
1:04:12
like who would have been behind that? Not his
1:04:16
ex -wife? Well, I mean, some people have speculated
1:04:18
Courtney Love had something to do with it. But
1:04:20
I do remember Some years ago, I don't know all
1:04:26
the details of it, but there were supposedly
1:04:28
a couple guys that maybe were some other musicians
1:04:32
that maybe he did some work with that framed
1:04:35
his death. They gave him too much heroin, killed
1:04:40
him with that, and then they forged the suicide
1:04:44
note, which I've read the whole thing before,
1:04:47
and it's got horrible handwriting, so some of
1:04:50
it's hard to read. I would I would guess you
1:04:53
can use someone who knows you will know what
1:04:55
your handwriting looks like and that'd be pretty
1:04:57
hard to Forge and so, you know, I guess unless
1:05:00
Courtney love Was in on it and you know, she
1:05:03
oh, yeah that looks like his hand I think there
1:05:05
would be some way to confirm that you know that
1:05:07
that wasn't his handwriting if it really wasn't
1:05:10
but yeah that they they oh made him OD because
1:05:13
supposedly What happens to your body after a
1:05:16
heroin overdose versus what happens to your body
1:05:20
after you get a shotgun blast is going to be
1:05:24
different. And supposedly the autopsy isn't completely
1:05:28
consistent with dying from a shotgun blast. But
1:05:32
I don't know how I don't know how much of this
1:05:34
is rumor or speculation. And that's the Seattle
1:05:38
Police Department has stood by its original ruling.
1:05:40
They haven't reopened it or anything. So the
1:05:44
next one from the 27 club member we have, this
1:05:47
is Amy Winehouse, and she died in 2011. Like
1:05:49
you said, it's about 15 years and that was some
1:05:52
alcohol poisoning. She was found in her London
1:05:55
home and said she was five times the legal driving
1:05:59
limit. That's a lot, especially as little as
1:06:02
she was anyway. She was kind of bulimic I'd heard.
1:06:04
And so she had all kinds of health issues, but
1:06:06
too bad though. I've heard her songs on the radio,
1:06:10
The Current Plays a lot of this stuff and great
1:06:12
voice, great blues singer. Really too bad, really
1:06:14
too bad. Alright, the last one I want to mention,
1:06:19
this is a guy I had not heard of until I started
1:06:21
researching, and they put him in the club, but
1:06:23
this was way before anybody else. This was back
1:06:25
in 1938. A blues musician named Robert Johnson.
1:06:29
Yeah, he was only 27. And he said that he died
1:06:32
from the official cause listed as no doctor.
1:06:37
What that means, some suggested he was poisoned
1:06:39
with strychnine by a jealous husband. They think
1:06:44
he died from drinking whiskey laced with something.
1:06:47
Called is it naphthalene or camphor? I'm not
1:06:51
sure. In parentheses, next to nothing, they'd
1:06:54
say mothballs. I don't know what that means.
1:06:57
What a way to go. So again, that was way before
1:06:59
my time, but he must have been some musician.
1:07:02
Yeah, no, he's a very famous blues and influential
1:07:05
blues musician, you know, back from back from
1:07:07
the 30s. I think there's one. I know there's
1:07:10
at least one recording of him singing several
1:07:14
songs, maybe as many as around 20. And I know
1:07:20
a lot of, you know, in years since, I think his
1:07:25
dying had to do with his legend. He was a good
1:07:28
musician but then you die and then you become,
1:07:30
you know, you become remembered and more famous,
1:07:33
exactly. And I think that people reference him
1:07:39
in music going forward. I can think of, you know,
1:07:43
I think... I can think of an Elton John song,
1:07:46
for instance, where he mentions Robert Johnson.
1:07:51
And probably a lot off the top of my head, that's
1:07:54
the only one that I can think of, but probably
1:07:55
a lot more references in music to him. All right,
1:08:02
Luke, I'm going to let you have the last word
1:08:03
on the 27 Club. Again, why you selected this
1:08:08
topic? What takeaways did you get from a group
1:08:11
like this? Well, when I was 18, I had this poster
1:08:15
on my dorm room wall and it's a real cool poster.
1:08:21
I think I've still got it rolled up somewhere
1:08:23
and there's a lot of little clues. a lot of,
1:08:26
not really clues, but little things written in
1:08:30
the, it's hand drawn. And it's got a lot of little
1:08:32
things written in there. It's a poster you can
1:08:34
spend hours looking at and still notice new things.
1:08:38
So it was always something that I, that I thought
1:08:40
was cool. And when I was 18, I'm thinking, yeah,
1:08:43
these people are nine years older than me. And
1:08:45
I, you know, I had it up and when I'd move and
1:08:47
I usually would have it on the wall, probably
1:08:49
at least through my late twenties. And I remember
1:08:52
it was a big deal when I got to be that age where,
1:08:54
okay, now I'm as old as. people. Now I'm 11 years
1:08:56
older than them. So it is crazy to think about
1:09:00
what somebody can accomplish. But at that young
1:09:03
age young and then and then you die and you still
1:09:07
have you know You have this amazing body of work,
1:09:10
but it also just you know what if what if Hendrix?
1:09:13
What if Hendrix was one of these one of these
1:09:15
guys who was in his early 80s now? Who's still
1:09:18
going around in touring? Yeah, you know you say
1:09:20
you know same with I mean Jim Morrison the the
1:09:23
doors kept touring I think Raymond Zurich died
1:09:25
a few years ago, but the doors toured for decades
1:09:28
after his death. And some of these bands, it
1:09:33
would have been really interesting to see what
1:09:35
they would have kept producing if they wouldn't
1:09:38
have died. Keith Moon made it to 32 before he
1:09:46
died. So he missed the club by a little bit.
1:09:49
But he's another guy who replaced him. touring
1:09:55
and making music, but he was a pretty big part
1:09:59
of their band and it would have been interesting
1:10:00
to see what they... you know, would have done
1:10:02
with him. Interesting. Good point. Good point.
1:10:07
Well, Luke, this has been a blast recording this
1:10:08
episode with you. First about Paul's dead rumor
1:10:12
and then the 27 club, which is fascinating. I'm
1:10:15
glad you made yourself available for us to get
1:10:17
together. Be sure to let your friends and colleagues
1:10:20
back in Austria know about the episode. Thanks
1:10:23
again. If you appreciate it. Yeah, thanks a lot.
1:10:25
It's been a pleasure to be here and I hope to
1:10:27
do it again. And again to our listeners, thanks
1:10:33
for hanging out with me, Bob at Home, and my
1:10:35
guest, my nephew, Luke at Home. We hope you'll
1:10:38
join us for the next episode of Hanging Out with
1:10:40
Bob wherever you listen to your podcasts. And
1:10:42
until then, bye.