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SoWhoCaresAnyway E34 Challenging the stereo type of aging · SoWhoCaresAnyway

• 0:04
  Hi, I'm Ruth Germaine, and this is, so Who Cares? Anyway, a podcast shaped by my deep curiosity about who cares, what do they care about, what do they do, and why does it matter? My aspiration is to build a community that listens with intention.
• 0:20
  And explores care from every angle from the North Yorkshire malls to behind clinical doors.
• 0:27
  Each episode invites people to share their stories, their ideas, and talk about what matters to them.
• 0:34
  Together we reimagine what care could be and how we might shape health and wellbeing through the assets, values, and the lived wisdom of our communities.
• 0:44
  And why does it matter? Because for too long, health and care have been treated as things to be delivered.
• 0:50
  Often depleting systems and the people around them, and it's time to rewrite the narrative to center everyone as a contributor, not just a recipient, to offer joy, hope, and meaningful belonging.
• 1:04
  To invite each of us to shape the future of health and wellbeing with courage, with creativity, and with care.
• 1:12
  So who cares.
• 1:13
  Anyway, hi, it's Ruth here, and today I'm delighted to be joined by Lela, who is a fellow Rotarian.
• 1:22
  And Lela is going to be talking about how we age with grace, how we empower people, and how we move from decline to contribution.
• 1:31
  Because we all have something to contribute as we age.
• 1:34
  So stay to the end because we have a great bit of conversation at the end that I really enjoyed and some real insights came through.
• 1:41
  I hope you enjoy this one, but for now, let's go to the conversation.
• 1:49
  Hello and welcome to So Who Cares.
• 1:50
  Anyway, and Stan delighted to have, um, Dr.
• 1:54
  Layla Ani join me.
• 1:56
  I hope I've, um, said that correctly.
• 1:58
  Layla, um, and Layla is, happens to be a fellow Rotarian.
• 2:02
  So I've been a Rotarian for a short while, but I believe that Layla's been doing, I've been a Rotarian for a bit longer.
• 2:07
  And also, um, I just found out about some work that Leila was doing around, um, elderly.
• 2:13
  Particularly in ethnic minority groups.
• 2:15
  So, um, and you have A-C-E-I-C, Layla, don't you, that you've set up to try and look at some of the issues that people face.
• 2:22
  So that's what we're gonna be talking about today.
• 2:24
  But before we do that, I wonder if I can just pass over to you, Layla, and ask if you will give, um, an introduction of yourself perhaps to start with.
• 2:31
  Please.
• 2:31
  Thank you very much, Ruth, for having me here.
• 2:34
  So as, uh, Ruth mentioned that I'm Dr.
• 2:37
  Layla Serani.
• 2:38
  Uh, I have done my actually PhD in, uh, aging, uh, quality of life and wellbeing.
• 2:45
  And uh, um, currently I'm a lecturer at the University of Wales, Trinity St.
• 2:51
  David and University of East London.
• 2:54
  Uh, besides that, um, I'm an independent researcher as well, and as Ruth currently mentioned, that.
• 3:01
  I have just registered my CIC image, uh, which is ethnic, uh, minority aging with grace and equity.
• 3:09
  However, we are working for ethnic minority, but anyone, any community can be a part of this.
• 3:16
  Uh, you know, the vision.
• 3:18
  So basically, um, image vision is to enhance the quality of life and at, uh, wellbeing of an at ethnic minority, older adults in the uk.
• 3:31
  So that's, uh, what my introduction is.
• 3:34
  Thank you, and that's really helpful and gives us quite a bit of context.
• 3:37
  So there's really three parts that you've got there, the lecturer, the researcher, and then the community interest company image that you've set up recently.
• 3:45
  So I wonder, before we go into what image does and some of the things behind that, what was your passion? Why did you develop this? Why did you.
• 3:53
  Where did you see a need and why was it this? Because there's lots of good causes, lots of important things that we need to do in life, but sometimes there's a, there's something that happens, isn't there, that makes us think, ah, this is what I need to do.
• 4:04
  And that's what I'm wondering.
• 4:06
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 4:07
  Uh, yes, Ruth, uh, there's a history behind it, so, um.
• 4:12
  When I did my master's, uh, from UK and I went back to, actually, I'm from Pakistan originally, I'm from Pakistan.
• 4:21
  And um, I came here in UK in 2007 to do, to pursue my master's, and I did my master's in public health.
• 4:29
  Um, after two years, I.
• 4:32
  To Pakistan, I started working there as a, in a community, um, specifically people living in a, uh, you know, low socioeconomic areas like Northern Pakistan specifically where gilded chiral, spontaneous areas.
• 4:48
  And after that, um.
• 4:50
  Uh, I, I co-founded, I was a co-founder of an, uh, NGO, uh, established in Pakistan, known as We Care, social Welfare Society for Active and Healthy Aging.
• 5:04
  So I put all the learning and the theories and.
• 5:07
  Whatever I learned in public health while establishing that weaker, uh, society in Pakistan now that particularly started working with the aging population there as life expectancy increasing, we are expecting more elderly people living in, you know, the developing countries as well as the developed country boat.
• 5:28
  So, um, I became a co-founder of it and then we started working there.
• 5:35
  2000, I think it was 2011.
• 5:38
  And, uh, while working, uh, there, uh, you know, uh, I developed my interest because my interest was always there to serve community, um, specifically underserved areas, people living in a social, uh, low socioeconomic weather.
• 5:56
  Resources are very few.
• 5:58
  So, um, that version actually, uh, is in.
• 6:03
  Let's say out product of that.
• 6:05
  And then I, um, pursued, I decided to pursue my ma uh, PhD, uh, in, uh, aging and looking around the quality of life and wellbeing of an older people.
• 6:18
  So I came back here and I started doing my PhD and while doing my PhD with all the theories of aging and the culture and everything.
• 6:28
  So, because my actually, um.
• 6:31
  My PhD topic, uh, thesis topic was about the assessing the quality of life and wellbeing in, uh, Pakistan.
• 6:40
  So, um, with all the findings, which I brought up that developed my more interest to give back to the, you know, society since then, like I've been working, uh, with WeCare and uh, um, I'm a very active member there, though.
• 6:54
  I'm here, but I'm connected to the, you know, the community, the organization, and the morning I.
• 6:59
  I only had agree, um, other session in Pakistan, and I delivered, uh, you know, community development model with them, uh, while working with them.
• 7:09
  And, uh, because I start, when I started, uh, doing a lecture, uh, conducting sessions.
• 7:15
  At the university level, uh, and public health and teaching a module like empowering older adults.
• 7:22
  And I started looking at the scenario of UK population like in, um, around 2022.
• 7:30
  The, uh, at.
• 7:31
  Approximately 12.7
• 7:33
  million people aged 65 and over in the uk, uh, which was constituting, uh, 19% of the population.
• 7:40
  And as we say that as population will be increasing, the elderly people will need more care and more support.
• 7:49
  But I always think that, um, today is a time when, um, we need to come out from the institutional.
• 7:57
  We need to shift institutionalized care to community care or community empowerment so people can take care of themselves while staying in the community.
• 8:09
  They should be that much of confident.
• 8:12
  So that all brings, you know.
• 8:14
  There's all thoughts and the scenario actually.
• 8:17
  Um, and then I looked into that what are some of the, um, challenges and who is facing more challenges, um, and that I came up with a lots of things like statistics, um, specifically after COVID, um, um, like in according to, uh, 2021 census, like.
• 8:37
  Uh, total population of England and Wales was 59.6
• 8:41
  million and a 81.7%
• 8:44
  of the population was wide, but the people from the Asian ethnic groups made up the second largest percentage of the population, which was 9.3%.
• 8:54
  And then the challenges the ethnic minority groups are facing here, while because they're coming from very different background, they are, um, having a different culture.
• 9:05
  There are some kind of barriers like, uh, communication, maybe the barriers, like language barriers, lots of challenges.
• 9:13
  So, um, while doing some, uh, you know, um, the research on the challenges, um, the capacities, um, this actually is a out product.
• 9:25
  This image is a, um, outcome of that test task review, which I did it and.
• 9:31
  So it's here now.
• 9:33
  That's really interesting, Layla.
• 9:34
  So you've gone from what you were doing in Pakistan, um, and then coming over to do your studies to really underpin that by the sounds of it, because you were obviously quite driven.
• 9:44
  And it's really interesting hearing that you always felt that you wanted to serve, particularly under, um, represented or people perhaps from a, um, from a, uh, lower socioeconomic background.
• 9:55
  You've obviously always had that drive and that's driven you into that public health area that you were doing.
• 10:00
  But actually then you started to see those challenges here in the uk.
• 10:04
  And so you've gone from We care to image, which is what you're doing now.
• 10:08
  Um, and looking at that because of the, because of those statistics, and I think a lot of people saw that during COVID, that actually we saw people from various, um, different groups.
• 10:19
  Um.
• 10:20
  That were really, you know, the toll of COVID was much higher Yes.
• 10:24
  Much more impactful on these people.
• 10:26
  Absolutely.
• 10:26
  As were many other things.
• 10:28
  Absolutely.
• 10:29
  I, uh, I totally agree with you.
• 10:31
  Like during the COVID-19, there are many statistics and many research people says that, uh, most of the deaths for often, uh, ethnic minority groups, um, because of their, uh, they lived in their loneliness and isolation.
• 10:44
  So this is something, one of the challenge of today's, uh, you know.
• 10:48
  Uh, I will not say that's only in Yugi, but everywhere around, uh, because of the globalization, migration of youth from living the country, coming, going for, you know, uh, different parts of the world.
• 11:00
  Uh, people, the people who are aging, they are facing this, uh, huge challenge of loneliness and isolation and that.
• 11:08
  Then that leads to, um, mental health conditions and mental health issues, which could be one of the, another challenge which, um, you know, the ethnic minority groups, they are facing it here.
• 11:20
  So, uh, and, and this, this has been evident during very much evident during the COVID time when, um, during the lockdown there was no one to take care of them.
• 11:30
  There were lack of, you know, communication of older people with their own family.
• 11:36
  So, yeah, this was, um, this was very much, um, you know, it was, we have that, uh, seen this during the COVID time period.
• 11:46
  Yes.
• 11:47
  What you were talking about there with, with your work is talking about that shift from hospital to community, which we've heard about so much.
• 11:54
  I mean, the government talks about it.
• 11:56
  Now, I don't tend to sort of go into sort of government policies, but that happens to be a policy at the moment, but.
• 12:01
  There are a lot of people as well, so I dunno if you've listened to, I know that any of the previous episodes, but Adam Lent and um, also Russell Cormack with his, um, asset-based communities of development.
• 12:13
  Yeah.
• 12:14
  Were really talking about this shift and how can we move, um, things into the community and empower people to look after themselves because in a way the institutions are perhaps taking over, um, and in rather than supporting.
• 12:29
  We need to support people to be well, rather than take over and say, I'll do it for you.
• 12:32
  So it's something about that empowerment.
• 12:34
  So I wonder if we'd perhaps to move on, 'cause we could talk about that for quite some time.
• 12:38
  But if we move on to talk about, to give a bit of an idea to people, what is image? You've spoke a little bit more about its vision, but it might, and it's, um, your aims.
• 12:46
  But maybe just recap that for people that are listening and then sort of talk about that a bit more and what it is that you're doing there.
• 12:52
  We have a community.
• 12:53
  We have developed a community centered model.
• 12:56
  But before I move on to that, I just want to reflect that what, what image commits, so we commits inclusion, inclusivity, empowerment.
• 13:07
  We are aiming to do whatever the programs or the projects with the cultural sensitivity.
• 13:15
  The other thing is, um, community centered development, as you, uh, mentioned earlier that people are much talking about a, B, c, D model, which is assets based community model.
• 13:26
  So we will be also using that.
• 13:27
  Model, uh, while, uh, implementing projects and programs.
• 13:31
  However, we have developed a community centered, uh, model in, uh, the middle, mid of the model.
• 13:39
  Um.
• 13:41
  Center of the, uh, model.
• 13:43
  We have kept community and we believe that, um, on co-production, we don't, uh, want to, people only be a recipient of the things, but they should be the part of developing the projects for themselves.
• 13:59
  So answering.
• 14:01
  Or, uh, solving the problem by themselves.
• 14:04
  We will be the facilitator and they will be the partner with us and, uh, addressing the challenges which they, uh, they are facing it.
• 14:12
  So we will be also using, you know, the model, like we believe, uh, we will be strengthening communities through social and intergenerational programs.
• 14:22
  We will be using assets based community, uh, program.
• 14:26
  We will be doing a culturally repres, uh, culturally appropriate programs because different ethnicity, they're coming from different background, different culture, and each culture has a different, you know, they have some kind of a boundaries which we need to respect.
• 14:42
  So, um, we will be doing that.
• 14:45
  Then we are aiming to empower community champions like the older people.
• 14:50
  Whom we can provide the training so they can, you know, further help their community to, uh, strengthen.
• 14:59
  Um, yeah.
• 15:00
  And then, uh, we have another.
• 15:03
  Um, area of working is, uh, we will be mobilizing, you know, uh, community mobilization and then collaboration and partnership with different stakeholders.
• 15:14
  So what this all things are gonna do is it will create an inclusive environment.
• 15:19
  It will mobilize community.
• 15:21
  There will be more community participation, and then when community.
• 15:26
  Is actually a part of a process of from planning till implement, from the planning to implementation and then evaluation.
• 15:37
  Then these program that that kind of a programs can, you know, for the sustained for longer period of time and community is empowered and uh, they take a charge of it to have or run programs in the long term.
• 15:53
  So that's what image is gonna, you know, uh, be, will be doing it, uh, within the communities.
• 16:00
  Thank you.
• 16:00
  And I really like that, you know, putting the community at the center.
• 16:03
  And then I got from that there, there's three real words.
• 16:06
  So there's that being inclusive and mobilizing people.
• 16:10
  And then empowerment.
• 16:12
  Um.
• 16:13
  And then about having that sort of co-production element as well.
• 16:19
  I know that this is quite early days for you as a CIC, so maybe you haven't got an example of, of something that's happened.
• 16:24
  But what I'm wondering is, is do you have an example or a story of something that you know where things aren't working well, and then perhaps you could put your aspirations as to what you, what you would hope to happen.
• 16:35
  So anybody who is listening might be able to visualize that, um, and what that might look like.
• 16:42
  Because as you Ruth said, that we are, uh, very at, at very initial base.
• 16:47
  So, uh, I can't give you an example from there, like, but, but the challenge, which I can say is like, um, actually to build a trust in the communities because, uh, uh, when you, you wanna develop any kind of a program first, you need to build up trust in the community where you are targeting.
• 17:09
  So they can feel comfortable.
• 17:12
  Uh, they feel that yes, their voice is being heard.
• 17:17
  So that is something, you know, um, at this point in time, like.
• 17:22
  We are just, you know, um, approaching to communities and different stakeholders to be partner so we can work together.
• 17:30
  Because if I'm talking about co-producing or a B, c, D model, it can't, we can't work alone for that.
• 17:36
  We need partner, we need community actually, who can be with us.
• 17:43
  Work as a partner with us so we can be able to do that.
• 17:47
  So this is the biggest challenge for now, but I'm hoping with the time and uh, with the support, um, uh, which people whom I've been meeting different stakeholders probably that will be possible to get into it and we will be achieving our vision.
• 18:06
  Wonderful.
• 18:06
  When you talk about stakeholders, I presume you're talking about sort of health trust, maybe social care, um, yeah.
• 18:12
  As well as community, um, you know, whether they be faith groups or youth groups or various things like that.
• 18:18
  Well, maybe not youth 'cause obviously sadly, but sort of care homes, a mi a mixture of people really.
• 18:24
  Yes.
• 18:24
  But when you are meeting with them, I'm wondering what is it that you are saying to them to try and bring them on board? So if we haven't got to that point of building story, what are you saying to them? To, to.
• 18:33
  To help them understand why they might want to work in this way or work with you.
• 18:38
  Well, um, I have met couple of people, like as you said, that, um, because I'm just looking at the local people, so, yeah.
• 18:47
  Um, I have just started communicating to them.
• 18:49
  So we are just introducing what image is, how image will be working, and we share our vision with them and we see that.
• 18:58
  Uh, what, what is, you know, similar kind of, uh, vision they have, which can be, you know, be what we say, um, could be a win and win situation.
• 19:09
  So they are also achieving something, their visions and I'm, uh, the institution is also achieving, you know, uh, the vision.
• 19:17
  So we discuss with them, uh, we share the model that what we, uh, are aiming to do and, uh, why we wanna do it and how it's gonna happen.
• 19:28
  And, uh, yeah.
• 19:28
  So if they are happy to continue, they offer us.
• 19:31
  And if they are not, so they say that, okay, fine.
• 19:34
  This is not something we are doing it, or this is something where we don't want to achieve it.
• 19:38
  So.
• 19:39
  It's fine.
• 19:40
  And I think that is that thing, isn't it, of going along early adopters, so who comes with you to start with? And actually that might be, that that changes over a period of time to people that, you know, my, in my experience, people that say no now, suddenly watch from the perimeters or see something going on and, and then they join.
• 19:58
  Yeah.
• 19:59
  This podcast is all about collective voices.
• 20:01
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• 20:08
  This way we can amplify the voice, share the stories further, and it will help to keep the podcast going.
• 20:15
  Now back to the conversation.
• 20:19
  Maybe if we could go back, um, I feel like I'm going back a little step here, but we've talked about the fact that you set up image and it was around the fact of sort of communities and, um, particularly elderly and those ethnic communities, and we spoke a little bit about how that was unfair during COVID, but I wonder if you, um, or not unfair, but we saw that disproportionate effect that the, that COVID had on people.
• 20:41
  I wonder if you want to talk about some of those other things.
• 20:43
  So.
• 20:44
  What is it? Why do we need image? What is it that's happening? What is it that's happening for our elderly population that image is trying to, um, resolve? And particularly what is it that's happening, uh, perhaps differently or what do we need to do differently for the ethnic groups, uh, that you've mentioned? Yeah.
• 21:03
  So as I discussed with you earlier that, um, the, there is a growing population of, uh, at, from the ethnic minority groups and, um, the research says that they, they, they've been, uh, you know, excluded, uh, in terms of like in their health, healthcare, and they have, well, various challenges.
• 21:23
  Um, sometimes the literature has identified it's been, uh, discriminations in ethnic minority group.
• 21:31
  Um, and the impacts are, bad impacts are on their, you know, health.
• 21:38
  So included in, uh, on the poor, uh, mental health or loss of, uh, lack of self-esteem, um, it has increased, uh, stress.
• 21:48
  And, uh, the research has also identified the symptoms of trauma du reduce feeling of powerfulness or power.
• 21:57
  Loss of liberty, impact from violence.
• 22:00
  There, there are lots of, you know, challenges, uh, the ethnic minority groups.
• 22:03
  They are facing it now to, um, definitely the second thing which you asked and, uh, um, what, how, I think you, you asked me how image is gonna answer this.
• 22:15
  Yeah, that's right.
• 22:16
  Yes.
• 22:17
  Yeah.
• 22:17
  Yeah.
• 22:18
  So we, we, we are trying to, you know, um.
• 22:22
  We, we will, we have actually, um, developed a series of workshop, which is, um, two way, uh, a learning process where the, uh, elderly people first, they should be knowing it.
• 22:37
  We want to know what.
• 22:39
  When we say aging, what do they understand by aging? Because each culture defined because we do not have, uh, you know, um, universal definition of older adults or the aging or elderly people.
• 22:54
  Yeah.
• 22:55
  So for every society, every culture, um, ethnic, minor, ethnicity, the aging is being defined differently.
• 23:03
  So at this point in time, we, we just wanna know first from them that how or what they do understand.
• 23:09
  By when we say the people are aging.
• 23:11
  So we have developed, uh, one of the module series with, um, the name with Aging, with Grace and Dignity.
• 23:19
  So that series actually allows, uh, to understand the people that what aging is and how they can, you know, age grace, uh, gracefully.
• 23:29
  It has, uh, that that series has, uh, you know, um, around, uh, uh, five, you know, uh, modules, which has ember, uh, which has embracing the beauty of aging, reframing, aging from decline to contribution, rediscovering self-worth and identity, connection and contribution, and nurturing joy and meaning, meaning.
• 23:53
  So, uh, this, these, uh, workshop actually will allow them to understand themself.
• 24:00
  Their, their own identity, that self-awareness, which will allow them to think further about.
• 24:07
  Self-actualization where we say that, okay, we want to achieve what we really wanted to do.
• 24:13
  So this, this series has been formed, and in future we will be offering, once we have established the, you know, uh, commitments and involve the community or build the trust with the, with the communities, then we will be offering this series.
• 24:29
  Now, this series will also help us to co-produce.
• 24:34
  Uh, uh, you know, uh, the projects for future.
• 24:38
  So this is this kind of a programs we will be doing.
• 24:41
  Another thing, which we are, uh, um, in our, in our, you know, pipeline for the next year is an intergenerational program where we will be bringing both the, uh, elderly people and, uh, the youth, um, uh, programs with them.
• 24:57
  So they feel that.
• 24:59
  They are not excluded from the society.
• 25:01
  Still, they are a part of, you know, the society and the community.
• 25:06
  It sounds like you've got lots of ideas, but what I really like about those workshops when you describe them, 'cause you're talking about, um, imagine about health, but they really are on about that, talking about that individual, um, realization and empowerment.
• 25:21
  And it takes me back a little bit to Angela Cat, this episode of when I get old and people feeling disempowered, suddenly they were just.
• 25:29
  Just grandma or granddad or whoever in the corner.
• 25:32
  And they didn't have that sort of place even within, within their family, let alone their broader society.
• 25:39
  And how do people realize that? And actually just having that empowerment is so powerful.
• 25:46
  Um, yeah, to help people to establish actually, I, I can be something, I am still someone rather than thinking when I've had my life.
• 25:53
  I'm old now.
• 25:54
  Um, and just completely reframes that really, from what I'm hearing.
• 25:58
  Yes, absolutely.
• 25:59
  This, these are the very interactive sessions.
• 26:02
  Uh, which has been developed for, uh, the elderly people.
• 26:05
  It's just not for the elderly people.
• 26:07
  People who are going through with the process, like 45 plus population, they can, you know, uh, take a lot of things from there so they can understand that they are not declining, but still at whatever age they are, they are contributing to the society.
• 26:23
  They just need to have a self-awareness to reach to self-actualization.
• 26:28
  Of course.
• 26:29
  And what I'm thinking there is we, we hear so much about, you know, we have got, um, an aging population in the uk but I think that's, I don't know off the top of my head, you probably know more than me, but I think that is internationally as well, that our population is aging of course.
• 26:44
  And, um.
• 26:46
  Actually if, if our as, if as we get older we don't contribute to society, then we are, not only are we missing out on all of that, um, years of knowledge and understanding and life experiences that people have, but also we need people.
• 27:02
  To support each other.
• 27:03
  Um, of course.
• 27:04
  And we haven't got the numbers, you know, we are struggling to get the numbers of nurses.
• 27:07
  We're struggling to get the numbers of all sorts of people.
• 27:09
  Yeah.
• 27:09
  And I'm not saying that people should work when they're older, but actually there are probably things people can do as we age that Yeah.
• 27:18
  Will still continue to contribute to our families, our, our wider communities in our society.
• 27:24
  I think this is something which we need to change.
• 27:28
  The stereotypes actually.
• 27:31
  And the notion of aging people think about it.
• 27:34
  Yeah.
• 27:35
  So as I told you that the people, as you said, that as we grow, we go, go to the declining phase or we just think that, okay, now I'm aging.
• 27:44
  Now I'll take care of my, uh, children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and we'll be staying at home and uh, will be more connect to God.
• 27:54
  Yes, it's good to connect with God, definitely.
• 27:57
  But still, you have a lots of things to give back to the society because you have that much of experience in your life.
• 28:05
  If you are 70, that means at least 50 years of life you have given to the society by doing something.
• 28:12
  So why do we think that? Okay, if I'm 70, I'm not able to do anything.
• 28:19
  You have 50 years of a huge knowledge, experience, and the skills which you can give back to the society.
• 28:26
  An image is there to help that kind of people, to motivate them, to tell them that age is just a number.
• 28:36
  Still.
• 28:36
  Whatever age you are in, you can do anything.
• 28:40
  You can achieve your goal, you can do everything.
• 28:44
  It's just that we need to tell them to take out from them that what skills, what knowledge, what the experience and these workshop series, which I have discussed with you, this will bring all those things out from them and we will be helping them to co-produce.
• 29:01
  Okay, fine.
• 29:01
  What you want to do it and how we can achieve together.
• 29:05
  So it's sort of a win-win all round really, because actually what we're talking about here is as we age, continuing to contribute to society, our knowledge, our our insights, and also some of our expertise and skills.
• 29:19
  But actually by doing that, we are empowering the individual to hopefully live well.
• 29:24
  And live better.
• 29:25
  Um, yes, lives for themselves and for them to feel empowered and for their mental health to, for say there, you know, that's me as well for our mental health to be improved as, as we age.
• 29:36
  Um, yes.
• 29:36
  So that we keep living well and actually rather than needing things from, um, as you talked about earlier on, moving out from our, um, you know, our institutions and we start moving out into our, um.
• 29:51
  Communities actually, we are going to put less, um, demand on our institution, which we know already.
• 29:58
  Our, our hospitals, our social care and everything are, um, struggling to keep up.
• 30:03
  So actually, and as I say, it's not about people doing work always.
• 30:07
  I think more and more I've realized with my, with my work that I do, that it isn't always about having people on the cold face.
• 30:13
  Absolutely.
• 30:13
  That's really important.
• 30:14
  I know that as a nurse with my previous work.
• 30:17
  But we also need lots of other small things.
• 30:21
  That add up to help people live well, which will make a difference, which is to me, what you are talking about here.
• 30:27
  Absolutely.
• 30:28
  I agree with you.
• 30:29
  Thank you.
• 30:30
  But I, I really, I'm just reflecting back what you've said, so I, I think that's, um, really, uh, a lovely way that you're going about it.
• 30:38
  So, what's your next plans for mh who owned? Um.
• 30:41
  What are the next steps? Or are you, is it really what you've told me about so far where you are trying to build up that stakeholder engagement, you know, reaching out to people in your community? Yeah, so the first step, of course, this, uh, because we are very, a new organization, so we are just trying to reach out to the people, uh, whom we think that, uh, we can collaborate and work in a partnership.
• 31:05
  So there could be a many stakeholders.
• 31:07
  It could be a CSRs, it could be, um.
• 31:10
  You know, uh, community, uh, NGOs, uh, cics, um, then, um, councils, um, NHS.
• 31:20
  So we are just trying to build up our, uh, you know, um, collaborations and connections so we can, uh, you know, work together.
• 31:28
  So that is the first thing.
• 31:30
  Then we are something planning, uh, with the schools as well, uh, like in a process of it to think about and to work for the intergenerational.
• 31:39
  Thing, which I discussed with you because that will also empowers, uh, helping in empowering older, uh, people and for their wellbeing.
• 31:49
  So these are couple of things.
• 31:51
  And then the third thing, uh, as I discussed with you about the workshop series, which we are, um, probably we are thinking of to start implementing next year.
• 32:02
  With that workshop, we will, we will be, um, trying to come up with, uh, co-production and using an A, B, c, D model.
• 32:10
  So there are various things in the pipeline and, uh, I hope that, uh, we'll be able to do it in future.
• 32:17
  Yeah.
• 32:18
  I'm sure because you seem like you're definitely very committed and and driven to do this.
• 32:22
  I'm just gonna go back to the second thing that you mentioned about, 'cause I think that, I can't remember, I don't think we had that conversation here.
• 32:28
  I think it was in our previous conversation about the schools and that intergenerational work, and perhaps if you describe why that's imp, what that looks like and why it's important, whichever way round.
• 32:38
  So who was most natural to you? Yeah, actually, you know, uh, there's a very huge gap between the, uh, youth and elderly.
• 32:47
  I'll just talk about what the experiences which, uh, um, uh, have come across.
• 32:53
  Or what I can see is when, uh, people are aging, uh, the youth, because as I told you that this, at this ethnic minority, where we are targeting are coming from different, you know.
• 33:06
  Cultural backgrounds.
• 33:08
  So we said that there is, uh, two types like individualistic society and collectivist society.
• 33:13
  So the, uh, ethnic minority, most of them, they are coming from the collectivist society where they are more like want to stay in an extended family with the people with the family.
• 33:25
  Connected.
• 33:26
  Yeah.
• 33:27
  So, uh, what we have observed here, here, and the researchers actually, it says that when this gap increases, also this can lead to, you know, the loneliness and isolation.
• 33:41
  So what we are trying to, uh, just, we don't want to, uh, bring both the generations together to work together or to, you know, work towards, uh, 1, 1, 1, you know, target.
• 33:54
  Thing, but we also wanna give an awareness to the youth as well.
• 33:59
  Uh, because awareness is very important.
• 34:01
  If you ask anything about, about aging to the youth, youth, probably they come up with, oh, it's an old age, it's 60.
• 34:09
  And then, um, the communication gaps, which they have it, it has increased over the period of time.
• 34:16
  So we just want to, you know, connect both the generation so they can understand each other.
• 34:22
  They can spend time.
• 34:24
  If they have an elderly at their home, they can understand that how to, you know, involve with them with the different activities and to make them, you know, feel like that they are contributing, uh, in the society or in the community.
• 34:39
  So there is a behind that, that there is a huge theory, which I don't want to discuss at this point in time.
• 34:44
  But yes, um, these programs, uh, will enhance both the generations, uh, wellbeing and understanding and awareness about it.
• 34:54
  That's really interesting and I had a conversation just with a friend.
• 34:57
  She was saying that so often we don't like to say our age with like, don't like to tell people, but actually what we're doing there is we are denying that picture from people of this is what 50 looks like, this is what 60 looks like.
• 35:10
  Oh, could look like this is what it looks.
• 35:13
  When you are 80 or 90.
• 35:14
  Um, and certainly, you know, I I, at the end of my career, you know, I'm doing things so I I, I'm sort of coming up towards my sixties and I've started a new podcasts and actually, oh yeah, that's, that's something that as we age, that we can do just a way of sharing knowledge and.
• 35:30
  You know, my parents are in nearly 90 and they still do work now with different people.
• 35:34
  Oh.
• 35:35
  And they're doing things, and I don't say that just to, they do listen by the way, but they, they, I don't say that just to sort of say, look at what I'm doing.
• 35:42
  But actually if people can see that and see that, oh, actually.
• 35:46
  I was thinking that by the time I was 50 I won't be doing anything.
• 35:49
  Or by the time I'm 60 I might not be able to doing anything.
• 35:52
  'cause we hear so often, don't we, by the time people are 50, they've got however many comorbidities, you know? In other words, they might have diabetes or they might have had something else.
• 36:01
  But actually even if, even if we have, that's, that's sort of the bad side of it and the bit that we see as unhealthy, we need to paint the picture of.
• 36:08
  What we are doing when we're older so people can turn around and say, oh, actually that doesn't look so bad.
• 36:14
  And it changes that mindset in people when they're younger.
• 36:17
  Exactly.
• 36:18
  That is very, very important, you know, uh, because therefore I said that the awareness is very, very important.
• 36:26
  Because when, I remember when I turned 50 and uh, uh, my daughter, she said, oh, now you are older person.
• 36:34
  Now probably in some time you will, uh, require the hand to carry you from here to there.
• 36:40
  And I said, why? That is because that picture is in their mind that once you have crossed 50, you will need in help in your care.
• 36:49
  Uh, you won't be able to do certain things.
• 36:52
  This is a stereotype which we need to, you know, change.
• 36:56
  So, um, I think this kind of for programs will help our new generations and you to understand that this is not something because, um, it.
• 37:06
  When you have a lot of years of experience, knowledge, and skills, then you are more able to do a fantastic job the way you are doing it, Ruth.
• 37:17
  So, yeah.
• 37:18
  So we need to, you know, change the mindset of people.
• 37:21
  So I think with the work that you are, you are doing and that your, your, you know, your CIC will be doing as well, but with everybody, I think there is a way that we can all start to say, actually aging doesn't mean.
• 37:33
  That we're change, we're stopping living or we're doing less there.
• 37:37
  There's other things that we can do and share.
• 37:40
  So what would be your key messages to, to anybody? So young people, elderly people, but also, you know, to people that might be working in the NHS or social care or other areas.
• 37:50
  What would be their key messages that you'd like to share with them? Okay.
• 37:54
  Uh, I haven't designed any message, but what I wanna say that.
• 37:58
  I want to say that work, not work for the community, but with the community.
• 38:05
  So when you will be working with the community, I think the outcomes will be the best.
• 38:12
  So far we have done for the community, we have fulfilled the basic needs.
• 38:17
  We, we are helping them in their finances, we are helping in everything.
• 38:22
  But when you work with the community, the outcomes are more, you know, uh, entrusting the outcome.
• 38:29
  You can feel it that how, uh, you are giving joy and nurturing their joy.
• 38:38
  Uh, um, within them.
• 38:40
  Yeah.
• 38:40
  So I think, uh, we all need to think about it.
• 38:44
  Uh, we all need to think about that.
• 38:47
  We need to reframe aging and from declining to contribution.
• 38:53
  So whoever is listening to me, you can convey to other people that we are, we should embrace the beauty of aging.
• 39:02
  And we always reframe aging from declining to contribution.
• 39:06
  So that's my actually message to everyone who is listening to me, and that's an absolutely lovely message.
• 39:14
  Thank you.
• 39:15
  Thank you.
• 39:15
  And of course, you do have resources.
• 39:17
  You do have a website.
• 39:19
  And, um, so we will put all of those in the, um, show notes.
• 39:22
  So if anybody wants to look at those, um, uh, they can absolutely see how they can get involved with you and what they might do.
• 39:30
  So, yeah, definitely.
• 39:32
  Yeah.
• 39:32
  So you all are, or whoever wants to be a part of our CIC you are most welcome and I think, uh, when we work together.
• 39:40
  We bring change in our society.
• 39:42
  So thank you.
• 39:43
  Thank you.
• 39:44
  And that's a lovely note, Wendy, on.
• 39:46
  Thank you so much.
• 39:47
  Thank you very much, Ru.
• 39:48
  Thank you.
• 39:49
  Thank you.
• 39:51
  I hope you found this episode interesting and inspiring.
• 39:55
  If today's conversation has stirred something within you, please share it together.
• 40:00
  Let's build the ripple that we need to create change.
• 40:04
  And if you haven't yet, please follow the show and leave a rating.
• 40:07
  You can also find on my link tree.
• 40:09
  A link to my feedback form where you can share your questions, ideas, and reflections, and talk about what you'd like to hear on this podcast in the future and what matters to you together.
• 40:21
  Let's shape a space into something reflective and purposeful.
• 40:26
  So for now, stay caring, stay connected, and stay curious.
• 40:33
  So I think that was a brilliant conversation.
• 40:35
  I think what Layla really reminded us was that.
• 40:38
  As older adults, we carry decades of knowledge, skills, and experience.
• 40:44
  And that actually, if we carry on using those, not only do we as we age, improve our own health and wellbeing, but we can actually still be active contributors to our families, our communities, and our society.
• 40:58
  So I think that was a really important, uh, conversation, and I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did too.