Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / 349. I'm Possible: How To Own Your Leadership Style & Make Difficult Decisions With Brooks Running Chief Marketing Officer Melanie Allen

Transcript

349. I'm Possible: How To Own Your Leadership Style & Make Difficult Decisions With Brooks Running Chief Marketing Officer Melanie Allen · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

0:00
Speaker 1: I'm possible. You're the one that's going to make this happen.
0:03
Speaker 1: You have to chart your own course. Sometimes it can
0:05
Speaker 1: be scary, but break it down and it will all
0:08
Speaker 1: come over time. And you also don't have to have
0:10
Speaker 1: all the answers. You know, you don't have to have
0:12
Speaker 1: your entire life planned out.
0:27
Speaker 2: What's going on, Emila Badi? Here?
0:29
Speaker 3: You're listening to episode two hundred and forty nine of Hurdle,
0:33
Speaker 3: a wellness focus podcast where I talk to inspirational people
0:36
Speaker 3: about everything from their highest tides and toughest moments to
0:39
Speaker 3: essential tips on how to live a healthier, happier, more
0:43
Speaker 3: motivated life. We all go through hurdles in life. My
0:47
Speaker 3: goal through these discussions is to empower you to better
0:50
Speaker 3: navigate yours and move with intention so you can stride
0:54
Speaker 3: towards your own big potential and of course have some
0:58
Speaker 3: fun along the way. Now, before I talk about this
1:02
Speaker 3: week's guest, Melanie Allen, she's the chief marketing officer at
1:06
Speaker 3: Brooks Running, I want to say two things. The first
1:08
Speaker 3: thing is I shared a poll in five Minute Friday.
1:11
Speaker 3: The episode for that five Minute Friday is March twenty eighth,
1:15
Speaker 3: And for.
1:16
Speaker 2: All of you who have voted, Thank you. I appreciate you.
1:19
Speaker 3: If you haven't voted yet, head on in specifically to
1:22
Speaker 3: Spotify to vote in the poll. It would be super
1:26
Speaker 3: helpful for me to garner some data from you. The
1:30
Speaker 3: second thing I want to address here is that if
1:32
Speaker 3: you have been tuning in to Hurdle this month, then
1:34
Speaker 3: you know that Brooks Running has been sponsoring the show
1:39
Speaker 3: in March. It is no coincidence that I'm having Melanie
1:42
Speaker 3: on the show today.
1:44
Speaker 2: We have known each other for some time now.
1:46
Speaker 3: I actually had an opportunity to interview her for the
1:49
Speaker 3: first time IRL back at the top of twenty twenty,
1:53
Speaker 3: and I was honored when I said to the team, Hey,
1:56
Speaker 3: as a part of this sponsorship, why don't we get
1:59
Speaker 3: mel the show and have her tell her story in
2:03
Speaker 3: today's episode.
2:03
Speaker 2: She does just that.
2:05
Speaker 3: She gives us all of the backstory on the path
2:08
Speaker 3: that led her to Brooks and as you'll hear us
2:11
Speaker 3: kick things off with today, details what it was like
2:14
Speaker 3: to be the Brillians behind nicknaming the ever popular Pumpkin
2:18
Speaker 3: Spice Latte the PSL. At her previous gig at Starbucks,
2:24
Speaker 3: Melanie talks about what it was that Drew her to
2:26
Speaker 3: Brooks the coincidences that she experienced during her interview a
2:30
Speaker 3: process that made her know that it was the right
2:32
Speaker 3: leap for her, and talks about how she got to
2:36
Speaker 3: a point in her life where she knew that she
2:38
Speaker 3: needed to prioritize getting back into the swing of things
2:41
Speaker 3: with her movement practice. We talked about what that looked
2:44
Speaker 3: like for her, what balance and a holistic wellness practice
2:47
Speaker 3: looks like for her these days. And of course, there
2:50
Speaker 3: is so much goodness in this episode when it comes
2:54
Speaker 3: to career advice, stepping into your power as a leader,
2:58
Speaker 3: and something I really enjoyed in this conversation is the
3:02
Speaker 3: dialogue that we have about graduating within your career, getting
3:06
Speaker 3: to a place where you're not doing the same things
3:08
Speaker 3: that you have always done as you take on new
3:11
Speaker 3: levels of responsibility, and how to embrace that transition in
3:15
Speaker 3: a way that's both graceful and productive for teams as
3:19
Speaker 3: a whole.
3:20
Speaker 2: I adore Melanie.
3:22
Speaker 3: I really enjoyed this episode, and I'm.
3:25
Speaker 2: So appreciative of Brooks, not just.
3:28
Speaker 3: For their support of Hurdle over the past month, but
3:31
Speaker 3: also truly for making me feel so seen, so heard
3:35
Speaker 3: as a creator, as a journalist and as a friend
3:38
Speaker 3: of the brand.
3:39
Speaker 2: Period.
3:39
Speaker 3: Make sure you're following along with Hurdle over on social
3:42
Speaker 3: It's a Hurdle podcast.
3:43
Speaker 2: I am over at Emily a Body.
3:45
Speaker 3: Subscribe to the Weekly Hurdle newsletter and the daily Hurdle
3:49
Speaker 3: subscriber chat over on Instagram. The link to do both
3:52
Speaker 3: of those things is in the show notes. With that,
3:56
Speaker 3: let's get to it. Let's get to hurdling.
4:08
Speaker 2: Today.
4:09
Speaker 3: I am sitting down with Melanie Allen. She's the chief
4:12
Speaker 3: marketing officer at Brooks Running. Melanie, Welcome to Hurdle.
4:17
Speaker 1: I am late. Thank you. I'm excited to be here.
4:20
Speaker 2: I'm excited to have you.
4:21
Speaker 3: We will get into your entire backstory, but I have
4:25
Speaker 3: to tell you that I was sitting down having a
4:28
Speaker 3: post half marathon beer with Des Linden last weekend and
4:33
Speaker 3: she told me that you are the person that we
4:38
Speaker 3: have to credit for the Pumpkin Spice latte Craze.
4:45
Speaker 1: Well, I didn't start the Pumpkin Spice, but I did
4:50
Speaker 1: name it PSL. We celebrated the thirteenth birthday and I
4:54
Speaker 1: brought it into iced coffee. So that was a big move,
4:58
Speaker 1: going from PSL hot to PSL cold. So all the
5:03
Speaker 1: cold versions, I'll take credit for.
5:05
Speaker 2: All the cold versions.
5:07
Speaker 3: For those that aren't familiar, give us a little context
5:10
Speaker 3: of your gig before you joined the team at Brooks.
5:13
Speaker 1: I was at Starbucks before Brooks for seven years, worked
5:16
Speaker 1: on our retail marketing business. Did a lot of different
5:19
Speaker 1: roles there. My most favorite are being able to bring
5:22
Speaker 1: all the different drinks and beverages and flavors, and then
5:26
Speaker 1: I think what's most near and dear to my heart.
5:28
Speaker 1: I did a lot of red cups and red cup
5:31
Speaker 1: designs and everything for holidays, so kind of have a
5:35
Speaker 1: love hate relationship with the holidays after that.
5:39
Speaker 3: Understandable, right, But you were working on something that, like
5:42
Speaker 3: truly was so symbolic of such a special time of
5:45
Speaker 3: year for so many. I think even if you aren't
5:48
Speaker 3: a Starbucks fan, everyone notices on the street when the
5:52
Speaker 3: cups change colors.
5:54
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Well, and as soon as the new year starts,
5:58
Speaker 1: we start working on the next year's red cups. So
6:01
Speaker 1: it just never ends. So you get done and then
6:05
Speaker 1: you're restarting again, which is where that love hate relationship
6:08
Speaker 1: comes in.
6:09
Speaker 3: Which is something that you're also super familiar with when
6:12
Speaker 3: it comes to what you work on over at Brooks.
6:16
Speaker 3: You are truly ahead of the curve when we think
6:19
Speaker 3: about what you're working on right now versus when we're
6:22
Speaker 3: actually going to see what you're working on right now.
6:25
Speaker 3: Give us some insight into what the timelines look like
6:28
Speaker 3: that you're dealing with in your day to day.
6:30
Speaker 1: Yeah. We usually live in multiple seasons and multiple years.
6:36
Speaker 1: So my morning started off today with a Fall twenty
6:41
Speaker 1: six seasonal strategy meeting, which is over a year from now.
6:48
Speaker 1: I would say I live in the today, so managing
6:51
Speaker 1: today's environment or what might be happening today on our
6:55
Speaker 1: social channels or on our website all the way up
6:58
Speaker 1: to two to three years out.
7:00
Speaker 2: You know that we're jumping around a little bit.
7:01
Speaker 3: So I do want to help us kind of get
7:04
Speaker 3: some context into how you got to where you are today.
7:06
Speaker 3: Talk to me a little bit about what your personal
7:10
Speaker 3: interest and relationship has been with health and wellness.
7:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great question. I've always been active. I
7:19
Speaker 1: was not a team sport person young, but always very active.
7:24
Speaker 1: Did a lot of snow skiing, hiking, that sort of
7:27
Speaker 1: stuff when I was young, and then I had my
7:29
Speaker 1: daughter and I realized I needed to prioritize my health.
7:35
Speaker 1: It was a priority before her, and then you know,
7:38
Speaker 1: as you become a working mom and life happens. I
7:42
Speaker 1: let that go for too long, and at work, a
7:45
Speaker 1: team was training to do a half marathon and I
7:49
Speaker 1: had never run over three miles and I just thought, well,
7:52
Speaker 1: I don't know that I can do this. But there
7:55
Speaker 1: was a huge group of us that had never done
7:57
Speaker 1: it before. And it was the Seattle Rock and Roll
8:00
Speaker 1: half Marathon, and my daughter was five at the time,
8:03
Speaker 1: and so I was like, you know what, I need
8:05
Speaker 1: to do this for myself. And I started running and
8:08
Speaker 1: it hurt. I had like shin splints, I had other challenges.
8:13
Speaker 1: And my neighbor was a physical therapist and she's like,
8:16
Speaker 1: you need to go fit, get fit for proper shoes
8:19
Speaker 1: because I don't know what you're wearing, but that's not
8:21
Speaker 1: helping you. So I went to a local shop here
8:25
Speaker 1: right up the road from Brooks and they fit me
8:27
Speaker 1: with Brooks Adrenaline. I trained in those. I had no
8:31
Speaker 1: more pain, I had no more issues, and I finished
8:35
Speaker 1: my first half, which was amazing, and I just really
8:38
Speaker 1: conquered something I didn't think I could do. And I
8:41
Speaker 1: never changed from that shoe. From that day forward. And
8:44
Speaker 1: that was that was about eight years before I started
8:47
Speaker 1: at Brooks.
8:48
Speaker 3: If my math is right, this is like fifteen years ago.
8:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably a little over fifteen years ago. And so
8:54
Speaker 1: I just I loved Brooks from that point. I just
8:57
Speaker 1: it helped me achieve something I didn't think I could do.
9:00
Speaker 1: But then I also thought I would never leave Starbucks.
9:02
Speaker 1: I love Starbucks. But a recruiter reached out to me,
9:07
Speaker 1: and when they reached out, they put a little subject
9:09
Speaker 1: line that said CMO in Seattle. I was like, whoh,
9:13
Speaker 1: that's kind of a dream thing. I got to figure
9:15
Speaker 1: out what company it is and what it's about. And
9:19
Speaker 1: I'm a bit of a sign person. There's things we
9:21
Speaker 1: can control and then there's things that just for some reason,
9:24
Speaker 1: the universe puts everything together for you. And I had
9:29
Speaker 1: a brand new box of Brooks shoes sitting on my
9:33
Speaker 1: living room floor ants when I called this recruiter and
9:37
Speaker 1: she said it's for Brooks Running and I was like
9:39
Speaker 1: looking right at the box and I'm like, it's a sign.
9:43
Speaker 1: Then I got the opportunity to meet the CEO, and
9:46
Speaker 1: you know, Jim was just an incredibly inspiring person. When
9:50
Speaker 1: I learned more about the brand. I was pretty hooked.
9:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so awesome. I have chills as you tell
9:57
Speaker 3: that story. I would be interested. I have a background editorial.
10:02
Speaker 3: My first job was not exclusively within health and wellness.
10:06
Speaker 3: I was approached by a recruiter as well to be
10:10
Speaker 3: a fitness editor for the first time, and I definitely
10:13
Speaker 3: was sitting there thinking, I don't know if this is
10:16
Speaker 3: for me. I don't know if I'm going to get
10:17
Speaker 3: bored talking just exclusively in this vertical. With your past
10:22
Speaker 3: experience being at Starbucks and then having this new opportunity
10:26
Speaker 3: in the table to work at Brooks Running, did you
10:28
Speaker 3: feel some kind of way about getting into health, wellness
10:32
Speaker 3: and fitness yourself.
10:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was not at all concerned about the industry.
10:37
Speaker 1: I think a couple things for me throughout my career,
10:40
Speaker 1: I've always worked on consumer brands. I've always worked on
10:43
Speaker 1: brands that matter to me or that I believe matter
10:46
Speaker 1: to the consumer. Sometimes they're kind of small, but they
10:49
Speaker 1: really do matter. I had always prior to Starbucks, I
10:52
Speaker 1: worked at Procter and Gamble for fifteen years. So if
10:56
Speaker 1: you look at Procter and Gamble, you look at Starbucks.
10:59
Speaker 1: These are big, large public companies. Matrixed organizations. So my
11:05
Speaker 1: biggest concern was going to Brooks would it be would
11:09
Speaker 1: there be enough opportunity for me? And I quickly learned
11:13
Speaker 1: that that was the case clearly seven. I've been here
11:16
Speaker 1: seven over seven years now and I'm not bored one
11:18
Speaker 1: single day. So I was more concerned about the size
11:21
Speaker 1: of the company and the ability to move and be challenged,
11:25
Speaker 1: and I learned that that was not the case. I also,
11:28
Speaker 1: for me, as long as I'm working on something that
11:30
Speaker 1: I feel passionate about and I think is making a
11:32
Speaker 1: difference in someone's lives, that's that's a win for me.
11:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you're also getting at something that's very important
11:40
Speaker 3: about the general interviewing process. I believe oftentimes when we
11:46
Speaker 3: are in the seat where we are a candidate for something,
11:50
Speaker 3: we fall into this habit of wanting to appease who
11:55
Speaker 3: it is that's interviewing us. But what I'm hearing you
11:57
Speaker 3: say here is that you add concern and questions that
12:01
Speaker 3: you brought forth into the interview process.
12:03
Speaker 2: Is that right?
12:04
Speaker 1: Yeah? Absolutely, And it was a long interview process. It
12:08
Speaker 1: was it was over the summer, and so when you
12:10
Speaker 1: take in summer vacations and other things that happened over
12:14
Speaker 1: the summer. It ended up being almost a three month
12:16
Speaker 1: interview process, so there was a lot of time for
12:19
Speaker 1: all of us to think, and I just kept trusting
12:22
Speaker 1: my gut. But I did I had you know, I
12:24
Speaker 1: had reservations because I loved my job at Starbucks. You know,
12:28
Speaker 1: I think it's easier when you're moving jobs or companies
12:33
Speaker 1: because that job is not fulfilling to you anymore, and
12:38
Speaker 1: you're like, you know what, I'm not getting enough growth,
12:42
Speaker 1: I'm not challenged, you might not love you know, the
12:45
Speaker 1: environment in which you're working in. There's something that you're moving.
12:48
Speaker 1: You know, you're looking for that next opportunity. And in
12:51
Speaker 1: many of the cases for my roles, I think it's
12:54
Speaker 1: been most challenging in those decisions because I haven't left
12:57
Speaker 1: when I'm unhappy. I've left when I've been really happy.
13:01
Speaker 1: I think that's what made that decision kind of a
13:04
Speaker 1: little bit harder. But also, each time I talk to
13:07
Speaker 1: anybody at Brooks, it just I left smiling, and I'm like,
13:11
Speaker 1: that's really the testament.
13:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, entirely.
13:15
Speaker 3: And it's so funny you can draw parallels between something
13:18
Speaker 3: like that, leaving a job when you're happy It's like
13:21
Speaker 3: when you get out of a relationship and both of
13:23
Speaker 3: you love each other, but it just wasn't the right fit.
13:26
Speaker 3: It's easier to walk away from the relationship when one
13:28
Speaker 3: person does something that's absolutely awful, exactly exactly. So you
13:33
Speaker 3: make this hop and you find out you get the job,
13:36
Speaker 3: and what would you say from the get go is
13:39
Speaker 3: one of the most exciting things that you find as
13:44
Speaker 3: you step into this new role.
13:45
Speaker 1: There were two things, and these both happened within the
13:49
Speaker 1: first month, actually three, and the first one was my
13:52
Speaker 1: first meeting. Brooks has two big company meetings, no surprise
13:57
Speaker 1: that has running attached to it. Your meeting is a
14:00
Speaker 1: thirteen point one and the end of your meeting is
14:03
Speaker 1: a twenty six point two meeting. And so I was
14:08
Speaker 1: able to join during our thirteen point one meeting. And
14:11
Speaker 1: these are not like normal meetings. It's not like any
14:14
Speaker 1: other business meeting I've been to. There's costumes, there's themes,
14:19
Speaker 1: there's just a ton of fun that we have that
14:20
Speaker 1: you're delivering business content and business strategy in a way
14:24
Speaker 1: that's really engaging and celebrating all the work that had
14:27
Speaker 1: happened and leading up to that moment in time. So
14:31
Speaker 1: I was hooked from a culture standpoint immediately. Our employee
14:35
Speaker 1: awards are submitted by other employees and their peers, and
14:40
Speaker 1: so the specialness of those awards I've never seen before.
14:43
Speaker 1: So culture was number one. That was day one, my
14:45
Speaker 1: very first day. And the second one was within that
14:48
Speaker 1: first month was our big yearly strategy meeting. And I'd
14:52
Speaker 1: never been to a strategy meeting like this one. It
14:55
Speaker 1: is a small group of leaders. The leaders have been
14:58
Speaker 1: there for a long time. The leaders listened to everyone.
15:03
Speaker 1: People actually asked me what I thought. That had not
15:06
Speaker 1: really happened around a table, especially when you're brand new
15:10
Speaker 1: at the table where they're like, Melanie, what are you thinking?
15:12
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, they called on me, like what do
15:16
Speaker 1: I do? I didn't have to try to insert myself
15:18
Speaker 1: into the discussion. So that was another component, which is
15:22
Speaker 1: just the value of the senior leadership team that I
15:27
Speaker 1: was around. And then the third one was I had autonomy.
15:31
Speaker 1: I went in and wanted to change our creative agency
15:34
Speaker 1: and our media agency, and I went to our CEO
15:37
Speaker 1: and said, I want to do this. I thought there
15:39
Speaker 1: would be layers of approvals that needed to happen in
15:43
Speaker 1: reviews to be able to make those changes, and he
15:46
Speaker 1: just went okay. I was like, well, how do you
15:49
Speaker 1: want to be involved in the process. He's like, I
15:51
Speaker 1: don't you get to make the decision. I was like, what,
15:55
Speaker 1: I get to make the decision. So that was the
15:57
Speaker 1: other thing and the third thing that in those three
16:00
Speaker 1: things are still true at Brooks today.
16:03
Speaker 3: It's so great to see how it lights you up
16:06
Speaker 3: even now reflecting on that time period. I'm curious if
16:13
Speaker 3: you've found in your experience that perhaps, being a woman,
16:18
Speaker 3: it was hard for you at times to speak up
16:21
Speaker 3: at some of these larger tables previously.
16:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, absolutely, it's I think it's something that I
16:28
Speaker 1: have been developing my entire career, which is finding you know,
16:33
Speaker 1: a lot of times we talk about finding your voice,
16:36
Speaker 1: figuring out what are the right things to say at
16:38
Speaker 1: that table? When do you say them. One of the
16:42
Speaker 1: things that I learned early on it was an advice
16:45
Speaker 1: that I got from a manager and she said, just
16:49
Speaker 1: say one thing during the meeting. She's like, that's it.
16:53
Speaker 1: It can be a question, it can be a comment,
16:56
Speaker 1: it can be a guess, and she's like, just leave
17:00
Speaker 1: the meeting saying one thing. And that just broke down
17:03
Speaker 1: that big step that I needed to make. You know,
17:06
Speaker 1: I had to make an impression at every single meeting,
17:08
Speaker 1: so you don't just don't leave not saying anything, because
17:12
Speaker 1: there were times when I would retreat and just kind
17:14
Speaker 1: of watch what was happening before I felt comfortable jumping in,
17:18
Speaker 1: and I think that served me well throughout my career.
17:22
Speaker 3: It's easy to draw a parallel to that piece of advice.
17:26
Speaker 3: And I'm sure how you felt when you began running,
17:30
Speaker 3: when you had all of those colleagues that were like,
17:32
Speaker 3: let's run a half marathon. You were extremely nervous and
17:37
Speaker 3: intimidated before you began. But often time that beginning, or
17:42
Speaker 3: the first time that you chime in with a yes,
17:44
Speaker 3: and is the part that's the scariest.
17:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, exactly. It's just I break down a lot
17:51
Speaker 1: of things into just that one for small step, and
17:54
Speaker 1: that helps me a ton. I mean, it's such a
17:57
Speaker 1: great metaphor for running for life, for any thing, because
18:01
Speaker 1: you know, at times that bigger task is so daunting,
18:03
Speaker 1: but if you can just get through the little things,
18:05
Speaker 1: they will add up to something. But yeah, that first,
18:09
Speaker 1: those first conversations, especially early in my career, I started
18:12
Speaker 1: out as an engineer and the room was not filled
18:15
Speaker 1: with women, and so that was particularly you know, an
18:18
Speaker 1: environment that I had to really learn early on, and
18:21
Speaker 1: again I think served me well over time.
18:24
Speaker 3: I'm super interested to hear where your headspace was when
18:27
Speaker 3: you got to this place where you understood that you
18:29
Speaker 3: didn't need to clear all of your ideas or all
18:31
Speaker 3: the changes that you sawt with somebody else. Was it
18:35
Speaker 3: hard to take action at the beginning?
18:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, absolutely absolutely. I had been in organizations where
18:44
Speaker 1: there was always a safety net. You know, there were
18:47
Speaker 1: enough people who had to sign off or agree or
18:51
Speaker 1: review it that even if you were leading it, you
18:56
Speaker 1: knew that there was somebody else that was there that,
18:59
Speaker 1: you know, if it turned, if it took a turn
19:00
Speaker 1: for the worse. I was kind of in it with
19:03
Speaker 1: more people, and so I think that was the first
19:05
Speaker 1: thing I had to get over, that fear of okay,
19:09
Speaker 1: well what could how bad could it be? And you know,
19:12
Speaker 1: and I certainly went to our exec team and said,
19:15
Speaker 1: I'm making this choice. Are there any things that you're
19:18
Speaker 1: concerned about, anything that you're seeing that I'm not seeing?
19:22
Speaker 1: And a lot of times like nope, sounds good. So
19:25
Speaker 1: I felt supported, but I also just had to start
19:28
Speaker 1: to trust my gut and make the decision. I would
19:31
Speaker 1: also say leaned on my team a lot. So I
19:34
Speaker 1: felt like asking them to see around corners, or let's
19:38
Speaker 1: play Devil's Advocate about something and try to see if
19:41
Speaker 1: there's another thing that we're not seeing. And so I
19:44
Speaker 1: think it grew us as a team stronger because now
19:48
Speaker 1: we were making the decision together. But it certainly was
19:52
Speaker 1: unnerving at first.
19:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, I really appreciate the I may be in a
19:59
Speaker 3: pos position that is technically higher than you, but I
20:04
Speaker 3: know that regardless of level role position here, we all
20:09
Speaker 3: have the opportunity and the same vested interest to create
20:12
Speaker 3: something that's good for the brand. I also really appreciate
20:17
Speaker 3: the admission of this can be very overwhelming for me,
20:21
Speaker 3: and I love having a safety net, this idea that
20:25
Speaker 3: I'm learning actively even as a leader, how to trust
20:30
Speaker 3: my gut. I think a lot of people listening to
20:32
Speaker 3: this right now have been in a position where they
20:35
Speaker 3: are too trying to trust their gut and lead with
20:39
Speaker 3: their intuition. Any practical advice that you can offer on
20:43
Speaker 3: how someone can really just move forward acting on their
20:49
Speaker 3: own intuition.
20:50
Speaker 1: It's interesting many of the things that I've had to
20:54
Speaker 1: manage through a problem or a situation is because I
20:57
Speaker 1: didn't trust my intouition in the beginning, and so that
21:02
Speaker 1: helped me learn to talk about the intuition. So a
21:07
Speaker 1: lot of times I will share with the team that
21:11
Speaker 1: I will openly say there's something that's just not sitting well,
21:14
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what it is, or you know, if
21:16
Speaker 1: I have that intuition, or if it's like I just
21:18
Speaker 1: think we got to go here, here's why I'm feeling
21:22
Speaker 1: that way, or here's what I think again, just asking
21:25
Speaker 1: if they're seeing something i'm not, And to me, I
21:28
Speaker 1: think a lot of times it's looking back at different
21:30
Speaker 1: decisions and seeing what would have been if you just
21:34
Speaker 1: listen to your gut. The other thing that I talk
21:37
Speaker 1: a lot about is realizing that, you know, what, I
21:40
Speaker 1: made the best decision I could with the information that
21:43
Speaker 1: I had at the time, and sometimes that like all
21:47
Speaker 1: of a sudden, you're like, well, my gut was here
21:49
Speaker 1: this time, but now that I got all this other information,
21:51
Speaker 1: I would have made a different decision and being okay
21:54
Speaker 1: with that, and a lot of times, well, we'll talk
21:57
Speaker 1: as a team if a decision needs to change recognizing
22:02
Speaker 1: that that decision needs to change because we have new information.
22:05
Speaker 1: There might be a new competitive situation, there can be
22:08
Speaker 1: a new situation within the company, the consumers changed, whatever
22:12
Speaker 1: that may be. And being okay with the fact that we, yeah,
22:15
Speaker 1: we made a decision here and it's okay that we're
22:17
Speaker 1: going to change it, and we're changing it for these reasons.
22:20
Speaker 3: This open communication with the team is so important and
22:23
Speaker 3: also so exemplary that it's important within business, but it's
22:26
Speaker 3: just important within life as well. And I really appreciate
22:30
Speaker 3: the sentiments surrounding do the best you can with what
22:32
Speaker 3: you have, knowing that what you have today is different
22:35
Speaker 3: than what you had yesterday, and also it will be
22:38
Speaker 3: different tomorrow.
22:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
22:41
Speaker 3: For you, as you started to make these decisions, as
22:44
Speaker 3: you started to trust your gut more, you then obtained
22:48
Speaker 3: and learned new things that made this process and the
22:53
Speaker 3: decision making and trusting your intuition moving forward a little
22:57
Speaker 3: bit easier.
22:57
Speaker 2: Would you agree?
22:58
Speaker 1: Absolutely? Yeah, Yeah, you know. It's always fun to reflect
23:01
Speaker 1: on it now, you know, because every day you're always
23:04
Speaker 1: facing challenges. But if you do rewind to that time,
23:08
Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, it's I've come a long way and
23:10
Speaker 1: that in that regard and I should celebrate that more.
23:13
Speaker 3: I love how you pointed out earlier the fun that
23:17
Speaker 3: you have at Brooks as a company, and how some
23:21
Speaker 3: of the existing structures in the way that the corporate
23:25
Speaker 3: culture is really is different than anything that you've seen before.
23:31
Speaker 3: Why do you think that that is important finding the
23:34
Speaker 3: fun within both the company and then also within your role.
23:39
Speaker 1: You know, I think it's a bit of the DNA here,
23:41
Speaker 1: you know when I you know, twenty years ago they
23:44
Speaker 1: started run Happy, and it's just about finding the joy
23:48
Speaker 1: and all the things and recognizing that you can do
23:51
Speaker 1: really hard things, but you got to celebrate them and
23:54
Speaker 1: you have to smile along the way or laugh laugh
23:57
Speaker 1: along the way. We talk a lot about our culture
23:59
Speaker 1: as work play hard. You know, we're a competitive bunch,
24:03
Speaker 1: and you know, often a bunch of athletes are very
24:06
Speaker 1: active people, and so there's a high achievement bar where
24:10
Speaker 1: there's a lot that you put into your work, but
24:13
Speaker 1: recognizing that you need to, you know, we also play
24:15
Speaker 1: hard as well, and that balance between the two, I
24:19
Speaker 1: think is what makes this place special. It also makes
24:22
Speaker 1: us more creative. It inspires us. I think a lot
24:27
Speaker 1: of times when we get stuck. People do go for
24:29
Speaker 1: a walk or a run, and then they can come
24:31
Speaker 1: back and be like, oh wait, I have all these
24:33
Speaker 1: ideas and recognizing you can do that in the middle
24:35
Speaker 1: of the day. You don't have to do that just
24:38
Speaker 1: at certain times on your off time.
24:40
Speaker 3: Right, And what does finding the fun look like for
24:43
Speaker 3: you personally? How do you find some sort of balance
24:48
Speaker 3: that helps you show up as your best self.
24:51
Speaker 1: I'm usually a very optimistic It can be done. There's
24:56
Speaker 1: a way. And for me, when you have a problem,
25:00
Speaker 1: work through a problem and you find a creative solution,
25:03
Speaker 1: you find another way about attacking something that you didn't
25:08
Speaker 1: think about before, and you're doing that with a group
25:10
Speaker 1: of people, to me, that's fun. You walk out and
25:13
Speaker 1: you're like, whooh that was It might have been really hard,
25:15
Speaker 1: but we just achieved something great. That to me is
25:18
Speaker 1: where the fun lies. And then celebrating wins and failures.
25:22
Speaker 1: And then we sit in meetings all day long, take
25:25
Speaker 1: five minutes just you know, talk about you know, the
25:29
Speaker 1: water cooler, talk or talk about what somebody did over
25:32
Speaker 1: the weekend, and just get to know each other as people.
25:35
Speaker 1: So that that way, that delineation between work and home
25:40
Speaker 1: is a little bit less. It's just life and you
25:44
Speaker 1: get to live it, you know, through your work life
25:46
Speaker 1: and your home life.
25:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, it sounds like for you a big part of
25:50
Speaker 3: leadership is being a holistic human. What would you say
25:55
Speaker 3: has been one of the biggest lessons that you have
26:00
Speaker 3: learned over the course of your past seven years as
26:04
Speaker 3: a leader at Brooks.
26:06
Speaker 1: There's a few things. I mean, one these are actually
26:09
Speaker 1: things that I probably learned before I was at Brooks.
26:12
Speaker 1: When I was at Procter and Gamble, I went through
26:14
Speaker 1: a week long training program with Corporate Athlete. And Corporate
26:19
Speaker 1: Athlete was a moment for me. I think I was work, work,
26:25
Speaker 1: work all the time, and it was like, I'm just
26:28
Speaker 1: going to keep working. And if I just keep working,
26:30
Speaker 1: I get my to do list done, I get my
26:32
Speaker 1: emails done, I get all the things done. And Corporate
26:35
Speaker 1: Athlete is a program that teaches you about holistic and
26:40
Speaker 1: how do you maintain your energy level throughout the entire day.
26:44
Speaker 1: And there were so many signs of you put all
26:46
Speaker 1: your energy at work and then you go home and
26:48
Speaker 1: you have no energy for the ones that you love,
26:51
Speaker 1: whether that's yourself, your family, your friends, and so the
26:54
Speaker 1: whole program was about how do you keep your energy
26:57
Speaker 1: throughout your entire day and that energy that you put
27:00
Speaker 1: into that you reserve for your home time will actually
27:05
Speaker 1: benefit your work life. And that was momentous to us
27:08
Speaker 1: and our leadership team at P and G at the time.
27:12
Speaker 1: We all went through it together, and so we were
27:14
Speaker 1: all doing it together. We all left work at five,
27:17
Speaker 1: we all turned off. We all valued the impact of
27:20
Speaker 1: turning off. We valued the impact of working out, meditating,
27:25
Speaker 1: spending time for yourselves. So that was twenty years ago
27:28
Speaker 1: and that really has stuck with me, and I think
27:30
Speaker 1: that kind of embodies this whole idea of like when
27:34
Speaker 1: I say fun, it might be just that, like you've
27:36
Speaker 1: got energy to enjoy every hour of your day.
27:39
Speaker 3: That is so critical the idea that the amount of
27:44
Speaker 3: energy that you have to give will differ from day
27:47
Speaker 3: to day, but it's also finite, right, And if you
27:51
Speaker 3: are leaving the office and feeling like you have nothing
27:54
Speaker 3: left for even yourself, nevertheless, your family, your friends, any
27:59
Speaker 3: sort of a social life, then it won't matter how
28:01
Speaker 3: fulfilled you feel during the hours of nine to five,
28:05
Speaker 3: of those are the hours that you're working, it won't
28:07
Speaker 3: be enough. Yep, exactly exactly, and that's so interesting also
28:12
Speaker 3: to hear about the entire team doing it together. Is
28:16
Speaker 3: that something that you would say as the weeks, months,
28:20
Speaker 3: years went on, that you guys were able to upkeep
28:23
Speaker 3: because I would imagine that over time some of those
28:25
Speaker 3: boundaries would kind of fall by the wayside.
28:28
Speaker 1: They did, They did. We tried really hard. Like all
28:31
Speaker 1: of our meetings, you'd never go more than two hours,
28:33
Speaker 1: and then we'd all walk together. You know, if you
28:36
Speaker 1: had a four hour meeting, we'd all walk together. It
28:38
Speaker 1: definitely changed, and it changed as people who had not
28:41
Speaker 1: gone through the program came in and they didn't have
28:45
Speaker 1: that same mentality. I will say that while we don't
28:49
Speaker 1: have that program, particularly at Brooks, I think that is
28:52
Speaker 1: what makes the Brooks culture a little bit different. And
28:55
Speaker 1: when you think about fun, they that energy and how
28:59
Speaker 1: they balance the energy is something that is just ingrained
29:02
Speaker 1: in the culture.
29:04
Speaker 3: And so much has happened within the run space over
29:08
Speaker 3: the last seven years. I mean, you don't need me
29:11
Speaker 3: to tell you, especially after a global pandemic when we
29:15
Speaker 3: saw arguably a running boom of sorts, tell me a
29:20
Speaker 3: little bit about what happened for both you and Brooks
29:25
Speaker 3: as more and more people began to start lacing up
29:29
Speaker 3: and then in turn buying a lot more sneakers.
29:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, its a roller coaster. When the pandemic started, we thought,
29:36
Speaker 1: no one's ever going to buy anything again because they can't.
29:39
Speaker 1: You pull down production, and then you start to see
29:42
Speaker 1: We were working with Strava at the time and some
29:45
Speaker 1: other we use some other data points. We had our
29:50
Speaker 1: team in the field. They went out and they started
29:53
Speaker 1: counting the number of runners that they were seeing in
29:55
Speaker 1: each day. They were seeing more and more. So we
29:58
Speaker 1: quickly saw that people were moving to outside and starting
30:02
Speaker 1: to run, So then we kind of shifted our strategy.
30:04
Speaker 1: But the agility that we had, that's something that's helping
30:08
Speaker 1: us in the future. I still think running is changing
30:11
Speaker 1: a lot. You're seeing the impact that it had on
30:14
Speaker 1: gen Z and younger youth. You know, they were seeing
30:18
Speaker 1: their parents out, they were out with their parents, and
30:20
Speaker 1: now that's created runners and walkers at an earlier age
30:25
Speaker 1: than previous generations. And so that's I think is just
30:28
Speaker 1: going to continue to pay off for running. You're also
30:30
Speaker 1: seeing health and wellness their interaction with it changed, so
30:34
Speaker 1: lots of good things for us. I would say, though
30:36
Speaker 1: it's just rapidly changing. And what the pandemic in those
30:39
Speaker 1: early years showed us is we have to be really
30:42
Speaker 1: agile and just watch the consumer and we've got to
30:45
Speaker 1: be able to move quickly with them.
30:47
Speaker 2: And how are you moving quickly?
30:48
Speaker 3: I mean at the top of this we talked about
30:50
Speaker 3: how you had a meeting today about fall twenty twenty six. Right,
30:55
Speaker 3: so as the pandemic is happening, things have already been
30:58
Speaker 3: in motion, orders play, and then the boom happens. How
31:02
Speaker 3: do you keep up with that demand to provide for
31:05
Speaker 3: your customer.
31:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, I think this
31:09
Speaker 1: is where you break down, like what can you control
31:11
Speaker 1: and what can't you control? You know, some of some
31:14
Speaker 1: of our plans and the things that we do, we
31:17
Speaker 1: realize eighty percent probably doesn't change dramatically, So be okay
31:22
Speaker 1: with the eighty percent is probably locked. But there's ten
31:25
Speaker 1: to twenty percent of things that we can change or adjust.
31:29
Speaker 1: So whether that's pulling up a product, pushing a product,
31:32
Speaker 1: shifting a campaign, changing messaging. We have channels that are
31:37
Speaker 1: much faster, you know, when you think about social or
31:40
Speaker 1: other venues that don't take as much time to pre produce.
31:45
Speaker 1: So being able to just look at what are the
31:47
Speaker 1: things that we can adapt quickly and let's use those
31:50
Speaker 1: levers and allow the fact that it's okay, we can't
31:54
Speaker 1: move the big engine and it probably doesn't need to move.
31:57
Speaker 3: That's such an important learning though, because like, how many
31:59
Speaker 3: time in your day to day is there something that
32:02
Speaker 3: is beyond your control that you may get stuck on
32:06
Speaker 3: and trip over and getting to a place where you
32:09
Speaker 3: can be like, listen, I can only do the best
32:11
Speaker 3: I can with what I have and control the controllable,
32:14
Speaker 3: and then it serves me to be like, I can't
32:17
Speaker 3: pull that massive lover, so I'm going to stop fretting
32:19
Speaker 3: about it now. So challenging though, to get to that
32:22
Speaker 3: place where you feel like you can let go of
32:23
Speaker 3: that control.
32:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, every day is always a balance.
32:34
Speaker 2: I'm going to be honest.
32:35
Speaker 3: Because we are mostly women here, that time of the
32:39
Speaker 3: month is truly such a headache for me.
32:41
Speaker 2: I know, I know it's a headache for all of us.
32:43
Speaker 3: But as long as I can remember, I have leaked
32:47
Speaker 3: on long runs and bike rides and that was until
32:51
Speaker 3: I was introduced to sequel tampons earlier this year, created
32:56
Speaker 3: by two female athletes with us active women in Mind.
32:59
Speaker 3: Sequels Signature Spiral Channel say that five times fast creates
33:04
Speaker 3: a longer flowpath, redesigning the tampon for the first time
33:07
Speaker 3: in eighty years wild I know. In other words, I
33:12
Speaker 3: experienced improved absorption and less leeks tested for up to
33:16
Speaker 3: eight hours of where I feel so much more comfortable
33:19
Speaker 3: in at peace knowing that Sequels got me am I
33:22
Speaker 3: on the go lifestyle covered. Now that I have started
33:26
Speaker 3: using Sequel tampons, I can't imagine going back to anything else.
33:31
Speaker 3: Head on over to Tryseqel dot com and use the
33:35
Speaker 3: code hurdle for fifteen percent off a single thirty two
33:38
Speaker 3: count box at checkout. Again, head on over to try
33:44
Speaker 3: s e q U e L dot com and use
33:47
Speaker 3: code hurdle at checkout for fifteen percent off. Also, of course,
33:52
Speaker 3: I've got to give some love to Brooks Running. So
33:55
Speaker 3: grateful to this brand for sponsoring Hurdle in March and true,
34:00
Speaker 3: I have been absolutely loving my new glisser in twenty
34:05
Speaker 3: two's and let me tell you I have put them
34:08
Speaker 3: through the pass. I've been doing long runs, speed runs,
34:12
Speaker 3: tempo workouts, you name it. This is a sneaker that
34:15
Speaker 3: I don't think twice about being on foot. It feels
34:18
Speaker 3: so comfortable and cushion and distraction free and allows me
34:22
Speaker 3: to really be present in all of my movement. It's
34:25
Speaker 3: also got and I know this sounds fancy, but a
34:28
Speaker 3: double Jaccard knit upper that feels truly like a second skin.
34:33
Speaker 2: It is flexible and accommodating.
34:35
Speaker 3: And don't even get me started on the DNA tuned
34:38
Speaker 3: nitrogen infused boam. Okay, I'm started, so I'm gonna tell
34:41
Speaker 3: you about it. It's basically got larger cells that helped
34:44
Speaker 3: provide plush landings in the heel and then smaller cells
34:47
Speaker 3: in the forefoot which make for a really super responsive
34:51
Speaker 3: toe off. Trust me, you want to get your hands
34:53
Speaker 3: on a pair of these, Get yourself a pair of
34:56
Speaker 3: Brooks Blister and twenty two today by heading on over
34:58
Speaker 3: to Brooks Run dot com Slash Hurdle Dash podcast. Again,
35:04
Speaker 3: that is Brooks Running b R O K S R
35:07
Speaker 3: U n n I n G dot com Slash Hurdle
35:12
Speaker 3: Dash podcast today. For you, as you navigated your role
35:24
Speaker 3: during the COVID pandemic, h what did that look like?
35:28
Speaker 3: Obviously working from home? When did you guys start going
35:31
Speaker 3: back in office? How did that shake for you?
35:33
Speaker 1: Boy? I don't even remember how long we were at home,
35:35
Speaker 1: but it was well over two years. It felt like
35:37
Speaker 1: a really long time. I think the biggest thing that
35:40
Speaker 1: it did is our executive team became so close. There's
35:45
Speaker 1: not many of us on it, there's six. It's a
35:49
Speaker 1: really small group, which is one of the things that
35:52
Speaker 1: I love. And most of us are still here. Our
35:54
Speaker 1: CEO had made a transition, but our new CEO was
35:57
Speaker 1: there and we met every morning I think at seven
36:01
Speaker 1: or seven thirty, and we huddled and just talked. And
36:05
Speaker 1: for the most part, there was the first component, which
36:08
Speaker 1: was we have no idea what to do, and so
36:11
Speaker 1: the reality that we were all in the same playing
36:14
Speaker 1: field of just we actually have no idea what to do,
36:16
Speaker 1: and then we have an entire company that's relying on us,
36:20
Speaker 1: so we got to figure it out. And then we
36:23
Speaker 1: just started figuring it out together and working the problem together,
36:26
Speaker 1: and by meeting every day, you know, it was virtually
36:30
Speaker 1: over teams and zooms, and we got so much stronger
36:34
Speaker 1: and so much closer together during those times. And then
36:37
Speaker 1: that's just continuing to pay off as we moved back
36:41
Speaker 1: into in a real life environment. And now we're a
36:45
Speaker 1: mixed We're in the office typically three ish days, three
36:48
Speaker 1: maybe four days a week, but then that we are
36:50
Speaker 1: still able to get the benefit of the flexibility.
36:55
Speaker 3: It's so interesting this brings about I guess I don't
36:59
Speaker 3: know if it's a question necessarily, but you talk about
37:03
Speaker 3: being a leader who doesn't have the answer, and I
37:06
Speaker 3: think that oftentimes one may assume that in order to
37:12
Speaker 3: be a leader you have to have the answers. Can
37:16
Speaker 3: you talk a little bit about when it's maybe okay
37:20
Speaker 3: to admit that you don't have the roadmap in front
37:23
Speaker 3: of you?
37:24
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I mean I think that that's when you
37:27
Speaker 1: build trust with your employees and your teams. Because if
37:31
Speaker 1: any leader was coming out saying I have all the
37:33
Speaker 1: answers for a pandemic, I think every employee would be like, uh, yeah, right,
37:39
Speaker 1: I don't think you do. So what we did is
37:43
Speaker 1: we because we didn't, we had to build a plan.
37:45
Speaker 1: We started talking about, Okay, what are the signals that
37:48
Speaker 1: are going to help us understand what's going on with
37:50
Speaker 1: our business? What are the phases that we think are
37:53
Speaker 1: going to happen as we move through it. We don't
37:55
Speaker 1: know when we're going to move through them. We don't
37:57
Speaker 1: know what they are, but you kind of had like
37:59
Speaker 1: so we buil a fictitious roadmap, so to speak, but
38:03
Speaker 1: it gave us phases and then they were pretty right.
38:06
Speaker 1: Like when we would talk to employees, we met with them.
38:09
Speaker 1: We had town halls every week, so we were talking
38:11
Speaker 1: to them every week and giving them the here's where
38:14
Speaker 1: we are, here's what we know, and here's what we're
38:17
Speaker 1: here's where our heads are, and here here's you know
38:19
Speaker 1: what you can go do. And then we were quickly
38:22
Speaker 1: able to say, you know what, Wow, we're finished with
38:25
Speaker 1: this phase. We've moved through it, and now we're into
38:27
Speaker 1: the next phase. And people could see the road to
38:30
Speaker 1: quote unquote normalcy.
38:32
Speaker 2: Quote unquote normally.
38:34
Speaker 3: I appreciate that though, that concept of establishing trust within
38:38
Speaker 3: who it is that you're working with or even within
38:41
Speaker 3: your relationships. Right it's like I don't have the answer here,
38:44
Speaker 3: but I'm going to be here with you and we
38:46
Speaker 3: can figure it out together.
38:48
Speaker 2: And that is a lot more relatable.
38:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it builds that builds such a stronger relationship
38:55
Speaker 1: for when you are moving through challenges or problems. Is
38:59
Speaker 1: an organize, it pays off so much to be able
39:03
Speaker 1: to be vulnerable when you need to. You know, I
39:06
Speaker 1: don't think you can sit in that for a long
39:08
Speaker 1: time if you're always in the I don't know what
39:10
Speaker 1: to go do. But if you can at least frame
39:13
Speaker 1: the problem or frame the situation and be able to say,
39:17
Speaker 1: I'm not sure the path I should go. I see
39:19
Speaker 1: three ways, Like can you help me work through these
39:22
Speaker 1: three different ways? Because I don't know which path I
39:25
Speaker 1: should take? That shows that you are a critical thinker.
39:30
Speaker 1: You have the ability to think through this problem, but
39:33
Speaker 1: you want somebody else to be able to see the
39:36
Speaker 1: problem with you and maybe see, you know, talk it through.
39:39
Speaker 1: That to me is when I've seen the most strength
39:41
Speaker 1: when I've gone to my peers or even my team.
39:45
Speaker 1: So I'm not just going with like I have no
39:47
Speaker 1: idea what to do, at least having like here's my thinking,
39:50
Speaker 1: check me on this, or you know, let's talk through it.
39:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a collaborative process.
39:55
Speaker 3: You're talking about so many of the different qualities that
39:57
Speaker 3: make you a good leader, albeit not intentionally. When I
40:03
Speaker 3: ask you, what are the kind of qualities that you
40:06
Speaker 3: look for in someone that you want to bring onto
40:08
Speaker 3: your team?
40:09
Speaker 2: What comes to mind, Melanie.
40:11
Speaker 1: That's a great one. I'm going to say they're initiative
40:14
Speaker 1: and just drive to kind of figure it out. Like
40:20
Speaker 1: I think somebody that has that optimistic view of you
40:23
Speaker 1: know what, I can figure it out. I don't always
40:25
Speaker 1: look for somebody that's had all the perfect experiences that
40:29
Speaker 1: you would expect. I think a lot of the non
40:31
Speaker 1: traditional experiences can really showcase someone. So for me, somebody
40:36
Speaker 1: that just has that can do I'm going to figure
40:39
Speaker 1: the problem out, you know. I think someone that culture
40:42
Speaker 1: and how they work in relationships being important to them.
40:46
Speaker 1: We don't work alone ever, really, so how you relate
40:51
Speaker 1: to people and you're able to get work done in
40:53
Speaker 1: terms of influencing others when you might not have control
40:56
Speaker 1: over something, and you know, there's always basic skill sets
41:00
Speaker 1: I think when you think about consumers and storytelling and
41:03
Speaker 1: from a marketing standpoint, those are always critical as well.
41:06
Speaker 3: I really love that this is a trend we are
41:12
Speaker 3: seeing within the corporate world right now in that when
41:18
Speaker 3: I was younger, I don't know, ten fifteen years ago,
41:21
Speaker 3: there was a very specific roadmap or a path that
41:23
Speaker 3: you had to be on if you wanted to be
41:26
Speaker 3: an editor at a major magazine, for instance, and now
41:29
Speaker 3: I would almost argue because of the pandemic, are partly
41:33
Speaker 3: because of the pandemic we have seen and been exposed
41:36
Speaker 3: to individuals that have been able to garner such a
41:39
Speaker 3: wealth of knowledge in unconventional ways, and that makes them
41:44
Speaker 3: more attractive employees.
41:46
Speaker 2: Yep.
41:46
Speaker 1: Absolutely. And you think about whether it's an influencer that's
41:50
Speaker 1: created their own brand and they've created their own content
41:54
Speaker 1: and they've they've had to take that initiative in action,
41:57
Speaker 1: or whether it's somebody who's worked at a startup or
42:00
Speaker 1: somebody like there's all these new jobs out there that
42:03
Speaker 1: are non traditional jobs that when I started, it was
42:06
Speaker 1: it was a very like you get this education, and
42:08
Speaker 1: therefore you have this job, and therefore you're going to
42:11
Speaker 1: do this job for the rest of your life. It's
42:14
Speaker 1: not today anymore, Thank goodness.
42:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
42:17
Speaker 3: And this also brings about another important point, which is
42:21
Speaker 3: the idea that if there is something that you don't like,
42:26
Speaker 3: you can change it. I think that that is something
42:31
Speaker 3: that can be challenging, especially when you have perhaps what
42:36
Speaker 3: we often refer to as a victim mindset. Right It's like,
42:39
Speaker 3: if I know that I want to do more event hosting,
42:45
Speaker 3: or I want to do more on camera work. I
42:48
Speaker 3: don't need to wait for someone to come to me
42:50
Speaker 3: and offer me these perfect experiences, because that's the beauty
42:54
Speaker 3: of the internet these days. You can create those opportunities
42:58
Speaker 3: for yourself. But it's hard to adopt that mindset. It's
43:01
Speaker 3: hard to take the initiative and be your own biggest
43:05
Speaker 3: hype human first.
43:07
Speaker 2: That's what I want to ask you about next, Melanie.
43:10
Speaker 3: I would love for you to give me some insight
43:12
Speaker 3: about how you get to be the person that truly
43:16
Speaker 3: believes in yourself.
43:17
Speaker 2: First.
43:18
Speaker 3: You certainly had to have a fair amount of self
43:21
Speaker 3: belief to go after these bigger roles, right to see
43:24
Speaker 3: that CMO posting and say to yourself, why not me?
43:27
Speaker 3: So how is it that you channel that self belief?
43:30
Speaker 3: Where does someone begin?
43:32
Speaker 1: I'm going to go back to my mom all the way.
43:36
Speaker 1: It starts with my mom. It starts with my dad too.
43:38
Speaker 1: I mean, my dad also was a you can do
43:41
Speaker 1: anything kind of person. But my mom. My mom is deaf,
43:45
Speaker 1: and she has a little bit of hearing, and she
43:49
Speaker 1: can read lips, so most people would not know that
43:52
Speaker 1: she's hard of hearing. She lost her hearing when she
43:55
Speaker 1: was seven, and she just immediately like everyone and told
44:00
Speaker 1: her this is now what you have to go do.
44:02
Speaker 1: And she's like, no, I'm going to stay in the
44:04
Speaker 1: school that i'm in. I will figure it out. I'm
44:08
Speaker 1: going to learn how to do this. I'm going to learn.
44:10
Speaker 1: Like she ended up going to beauty school in high school,
44:15
Speaker 1: so she you know, got her high school degree at
44:18
Speaker 1: a you know, over over time. But she also went
44:21
Speaker 1: to school, you know, when she was I think she
44:23
Speaker 1: started when she was fourteen or fifteen, and she was
44:26
Speaker 1: told she couldn't in so many ways. And then she
44:30
Speaker 1: went to design school when I was in middle school,
44:34
Speaker 1: and again everyone said, you can't get up and present
44:37
Speaker 1: in front of people because you can't hear them, you
44:39
Speaker 1: can't work in an office environment, and she could. She
44:42
Speaker 1: did all those things, and so I think she was
44:45
Speaker 1: just a really great inspiration for me to never feel
44:49
Speaker 1: like I couldn't do something. Now I have a thousand
44:52
Speaker 1: voices in my head that tell me all the reasons
44:54
Speaker 1: why I can't do it, but she sits there and says,
44:58
Speaker 1: you can. There was something recently that had the opportunity
45:01
Speaker 1: to do. It was an outdoor activity that I was
45:05
Speaker 1: scared of doing, and I said I don't think I'm
45:07
Speaker 1: going to do it, And she was like, I did
45:10
Speaker 1: not raise you this way. I did not raise you
45:12
Speaker 1: to say you can't. She's like, I know you can
45:15
Speaker 1: do this. And it had to do with a skiing opportunity.
45:19
Speaker 1: And she also put me through a lot of ski school.
45:22
Speaker 1: She's like, I also didn't pay for ski school all
45:25
Speaker 1: those years for you not to take this opportunity. She
45:28
Speaker 1: is the one that's the champion for me. And then
45:31
Speaker 1: I've had a lot of great mentors and sponsors and
45:35
Speaker 1: coaches along the way. But it is a struggle. I
45:38
Speaker 1: would say, I don't always feel that I have imposter
45:43
Speaker 1: syndrome every day all the time, and so you just
45:45
Speaker 1: got to figure out how to manage that voice in
45:48
Speaker 1: your head.
45:49
Speaker 3: That's the question though, right how do you manage it?
45:53
Speaker 3: What do you say to yourself when you don't feel
45:56
Speaker 3: so shiny or so sure or your mom is in
46:00
Speaker 3: ready to talk you into the ski experience.
46:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're actually working with an executive coach. All of
46:06
Speaker 1: our team at Brooks is working with him right now.
46:10
Speaker 1: And one of the things that he said to me was,
46:14
Speaker 1: let's name that voice in your head. So I've named
46:17
Speaker 1: the voice in my head now, and he's like, let's
46:19
Speaker 1: just be really clear, that's her speaking, that's not you.
46:24
Speaker 1: So have a conversation with her and like tell her
46:27
Speaker 1: to let go. But it's it's actually been really really
46:30
Speaker 1: like a big relief for me because immediately I know
46:33
Speaker 1: it when the voice is going on in my head,
46:35
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know what, I'm going to put you away, Like,
46:38
Speaker 1: thank you very much for that input. I'm not taking it.
46:41
Speaker 2: What have we named the voice?
46:42
Speaker 1: Okay? I feel bad to anybody who's named this, but
46:45
Speaker 1: it has to go with somebody who was not very
46:47
Speaker 1: nice to me in high school and her name was Tiffany.
46:50
Speaker 1: She told me all the reasons why I wasn't pretty enough,
46:52
Speaker 1: I wasn't good enough, I wasn't smart enough, you know
46:55
Speaker 1: all those things, and so Tiffany's there in my head.
46:59
Speaker 1: There were a lot of conversations, I'm just winning now.
47:03
Speaker 2: I am winning now.
47:05
Speaker 3: Yes, I certainly use that tactic before we call it
47:08
Speaker 3: the gremlin in coaching and identifying and naming that gremlin
47:12
Speaker 3: can help you do exactly what you articulated. Is so
47:16
Speaker 3: helpful know that there is a difference, and also get
47:19
Speaker 3: to a point where you really do understand and recognize like,
47:23
Speaker 3: these are just my thoughts.
47:25
Speaker 2: That's simply it.
47:26
Speaker 3: I am not my thoughts, which it does not feel
47:29
Speaker 3: like that way all the time.
47:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, sometimes she wins, so it's okay.
47:35
Speaker 2: But did you do the skiing thing?
47:38
Speaker 1: I did? It was Hella skiing, and it was Hella
47:42
Speaker 1: hard I will say that, Yeah, it was. It was
47:47
Speaker 1: an incredible opportunity. I'm so glad I did it. It
47:50
Speaker 1: was exhilarating and it's been a long time that I've
47:53
Speaker 1: got that far outside my comfort zone and it felt
47:56
Speaker 1: really good.
47:57
Speaker 3: Speaking of getting outside of your comfort zone, if you
48:00
Speaker 3: had to identify perhaps one of the biggest challenges or
48:04
Speaker 3: hurdles has been over the last seven years of this
48:07
Speaker 3: chapter of your career, what comes to mind for you, Melanie.
48:11
Speaker 1: One of the things that I'm always challenged with, and
48:13
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people in their career journeys
48:17
Speaker 1: go through this where you go from how do you
48:20
Speaker 1: move from managing to leading? And when you start out,
48:25
Speaker 1: you love doing the job and you love doing the work,
48:28
Speaker 1: and as you go up into a leadership role, you're
48:32
Speaker 1: not doing the work anymore. So the thing that you love,
48:34
Speaker 1: you're watching, You're watching and you're coaching and you're guiding
48:38
Speaker 1: other people to.
48:38
Speaker 2: Do the work.
48:39
Speaker 1: But I really love especially with Creative and our events
48:44
Speaker 1: and everything, like it's just it's amazing to get into
48:47
Speaker 1: the work and the preparation and so for me figuring
48:50
Speaker 1: out how to still fulfill my passion areas and that's
48:54
Speaker 1: the part that I love for work. But while I
48:56
Speaker 1: have to move into being a leader. We talk a
48:59
Speaker 1: lot about like you're if you're on a ship, Like
49:02
Speaker 1: how do you continue to make sure that you're on
49:04
Speaker 1: the bridge of the ship and you're not down on
49:08
Speaker 1: the ship kind of in the middle of it, like
49:11
Speaker 1: trying to micromanage or you know, overguide anybody. But how
49:16
Speaker 1: do you how do you get up and see a
49:18
Speaker 1: longer term view and help just maneuver and help people
49:23
Speaker 1: learn and guide and grow. So I think that's one
49:26
Speaker 1: of the hardest things, is just becoming a leader. You
49:30
Speaker 1: end up being more you're managing budgets and staffing and
49:35
Speaker 1: I used to be creating campaigns like that. That's a
49:37
Speaker 1: pretty big transition of the type of work that you do,
49:41
Speaker 1: and so I think that's always a hard thing to
49:43
Speaker 1: try to figure out, how do you move from that
49:45
Speaker 1: management to leadership space.
49:47
Speaker 3: How do you still find that creative fulfillment?
49:51
Speaker 1: Oh, I pick my moments, and I'm pretty obvious that
49:55
Speaker 1: with the team that like you need to help, I
49:58
Speaker 1: need to fulfill some creat of outlets. And so there's
50:02
Speaker 1: certain times when we go through campaign development, like early concepts,
50:06
Speaker 1: when we're going through different ideas and saying what we
50:10
Speaker 1: like about it, and you know, pushing ourselves or presenting
50:13
Speaker 1: those to consumers and understanding how they're reacting to them
50:17
Speaker 1: and what they're saying. So the early concept stage is
50:19
Speaker 1: a place that I'm like, I'm not getting out of this.
50:22
Speaker 1: I love that part too much. Yeah, And I think
50:24
Speaker 1: it keeps me close to the team and the work
50:26
Speaker 1: that we're doing for runners.
50:27
Speaker 3: It's super interesting that you bring this up, because it's
50:30
Speaker 3: certainly something that I thought a lot about when I was,
50:33
Speaker 3: let's say, on a conventional media career path, and that
50:37
Speaker 3: you start as a writer, you become an associate editor,
50:41
Speaker 3: you become an editor, maybe, you work your way up
50:43
Speaker 3: to different facets of that senior editor, editor in chief maybe.
50:47
Speaker 3: And I realized on that journey for myself that I
50:50
Speaker 3: wasn't interested in just editing. I cared so deeply about
50:55
Speaker 3: the storytelling and the writing, and so I had to
50:59
Speaker 3: admit to myself, like, maybe this isn't the career path
51:02
Speaker 3: that I was originally after, and do a lot of
51:06
Speaker 3: self inquiry to discover, Okay, it's okay that it's not
51:10
Speaker 3: what you thought that you would want. How do you
51:13
Speaker 3: get what it is that you want? How do you
51:15
Speaker 3: feel fulfilled by the work that you're doing?
51:18
Speaker 2: And so what I'm assuming then.
51:20
Speaker 3: Is that by being able from time to time to
51:23
Speaker 3: chime in on the creative, you have also been able
51:27
Speaker 3: to really find fulfillment in being on the bridge of
51:31
Speaker 3: the ship.
51:32
Speaker 2: Yeah.
51:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, it definitely does, especially when you see the ship
51:36
Speaker 1: functioning well and you're like down there and you're like, oh,
51:39
Speaker 1: like you know, I think it's always hard. It's kind
51:42
Speaker 1: of like with your kit, you're like, oh, they don't
51:43
Speaker 1: need me anymore. Like that's a good thing. I would say,
51:49
Speaker 1: kind of similar to what you were talking about. It
51:52
Speaker 1: was a mentor of mine when I was in engineering
51:57
Speaker 1: and research and development and he said to me, look
52:02
Speaker 1: a couple levels up and do you want to be
52:04
Speaker 1: doing that job. I was like, no, I do not
52:08
Speaker 1: want to be doing that job. He's like, that's a problem.
52:11
Speaker 1: Where do you want to be? What do you want
52:14
Speaker 1: to be? Like, what are the jobs that you want
52:15
Speaker 1: to be and what are the ones that you think
52:17
Speaker 1: are going to fulfill you? And so that began my
52:21
Speaker 1: journey into marketing. But it was a really great question
52:24
Speaker 1: that when you looked up, you're like it took a
52:26
Speaker 1: different turn, and it took a turn away from consumer
52:29
Speaker 1: and that was one of the core focus areas for me.
52:31
Speaker 1: And so just that one little question actually changed my
52:35
Speaker 1: entire career journey.
52:36
Speaker 3: It's so important and also like so beautiful to be
52:40
Speaker 3: so cognizant of your inputs and ask yourself who it
52:44
Speaker 3: is that I'm surrounding myself with. That's going to help
52:47
Speaker 3: me get to where I actually want to be, not
52:50
Speaker 3: where I feel like I should be or someone else
52:53
Speaker 3: feels like I should be. Someone recently said something to
52:56
Speaker 3: me that really really resonated, which was, you can't articulate
53:01
Speaker 3: what it is that you want, then you don't get
53:03
Speaker 3: to get it right. Yeah, and so it sounds so simple,
53:07
Speaker 3: like what do you mean you haven't like sat down
53:09
Speaker 3: and thought about what it is that you want.
53:11
Speaker 2: But if you can only articulate what you don't want.
53:14
Speaker 3: Okay, that's a starting point, but you need to do
53:17
Speaker 3: the work to ask yourself, where is it that I
53:19
Speaker 3: truly want to go?
53:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep. And you don't always have to know I
53:24
Speaker 1: want this specific role in this specific company. I think
53:27
Speaker 1: that can set you up for disappointment. I've done that before.
53:31
Speaker 1: Think more about here's the characteristics of the job that
53:34
Speaker 1: I want, Here's the kind of work that I want
53:35
Speaker 1: to be doing, Here's the kind of problems I want
53:37
Speaker 1: to be solving. And then all of a sudden it
53:40
Speaker 1: starts to open up and you can talk to people
53:42
Speaker 1: about that, and then they start also helping to search
53:44
Speaker 1: for things that are like that, and then opportunities start
53:47
Speaker 1: to come to you.
53:48
Speaker 2: It's so funny that you say that.
53:49
Speaker 3: I think about a goal that I had at the
53:51
Speaker 3: top of the year, which I then reframed. The original
53:54
Speaker 3: goal was I want to do a morning show segment.
53:57
Speaker 3: And the woman that I was speaking to about this
54:00
Speaker 3: said to me, well, what's the goal of doing the
54:02
Speaker 3: morning show segment? And I said, I want to be
54:05
Speaker 3: seen or want that visibility to that size or type
54:09
Speaker 3: of an audience. Right, we're talking about millions of people
54:12
Speaker 3: that are tuning into morning television, and she said, so
54:14
Speaker 3: the goal is that I want to be seen by
54:16
Speaker 3: millions of people.
54:17
Speaker 2: And she said it like that. It gave me chills.
54:19
Speaker 3: I was like, that is frightening to say out loud,
54:22
Speaker 3: But that's exactly what I'm vocalizing to you that I want.
54:25
Speaker 3: She said, don't put yourself in a box by saying
54:27
Speaker 3: it's just the morning television.
54:30
Speaker 2: That's such a small box.
54:31
Speaker 3: But by saying something that literally gives me chills when
54:34
Speaker 3: I say it out loud, I want to be seen
54:36
Speaker 3: by millions of people. It's like wow, Like that's a
54:38
Speaker 3: big deal and like there's a lot of ownership and
54:41
Speaker 3: excitement around that.
54:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my gosh, I love that. That is a
54:44
Speaker 1: great reframing. Yeah, and a great goal.
54:46
Speaker 3: Someone comes and checks out your little corner of the world,
54:50
Speaker 3: maybe your LinkedIn, Perhaps they find you by slooping on
54:53
Speaker 3: the Instagram. They see you as the woman that is
54:56
Speaker 3: the chief marketing officer at Brooks Running.
54:59
Speaker 2: But when you in the mirror, Melanie, what is it
55:02
Speaker 2: that you see looking back at you?
55:05
Speaker 1: Totally honest, the thing that I see is my daughter.
55:09
Speaker 1: She's twenty two now, and there's so many times when
55:13
Speaker 1: we're like looking in the mirror together, Like she's constantly like,
55:17
Speaker 1: do we look alike? Do we not look alike? But
55:19
Speaker 1: what I see is that two I see, I see
55:23
Speaker 1: how she sees me, or that's what I want to
55:25
Speaker 1: see in me, which is, you know, when she looks
55:28
Speaker 1: at me, she talks a lot about like you know,
55:31
Speaker 1: just what she sees in me, and as a leader
55:33
Speaker 1: and as a person and as a mom. And I
55:36
Speaker 1: think just someone that enjoys life, works really hard, has
55:41
Speaker 1: strong ambitions, and goes after it.
55:44
Speaker 3: How does that make you feel when you think about
55:47
Speaker 3: the fact that you have raised this young woman who
55:50
Speaker 3: truly looks to you and sees you as a leader.
55:54
Speaker 3: I personally think that is so powerful and special.
55:57
Speaker 1: It was interesting because my husband said it to me,
56:00
Speaker 1: is like He's like, I don't think you realize how
56:02
Speaker 1: big of a role model you are to her. And
56:06
Speaker 1: then he just continued to say all the examples of
56:09
Speaker 1: how that is, and to me, that was that was
56:12
Speaker 1: just a moment when I'm like, I hope I always
56:14
Speaker 1: see that person when I look in the mirror. I
56:16
Speaker 1: don't always every day, but just reminding aren't myself that
56:19
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of good things that good qualities
56:22
Speaker 1: in there that I should focus on those and not
56:24
Speaker 1: the ones that Tiffany looks at.
56:28
Speaker 3: The thing is also is that in those moments where
56:31
Speaker 3: you don't feel so shiny or so bright, you have
56:33
Speaker 3: that to come back to, right you have this beautiful
56:37
Speaker 3: conversation that you have with your husband and also the
56:39
Speaker 3: words that your daughter has shared with you, reminding you
56:42
Speaker 3: of who it is that you are and what it
56:44
Speaker 3: is that makes you great. And sometimes you know, regardless
56:47
Speaker 3: of the situation, we all need someone to help lift
56:50
Speaker 3: us up, not because by any means or stretch of
56:53
Speaker 3: the imagination that we are weak, but because we are
56:56
Speaker 3: better when we have that community and that driving force
56:59
Speaker 3: behind us to step into our full power.
57:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a small family and a small circle
57:05
Speaker 1: of friends, but that it's so meaningful and so important.
57:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely Well, Melanie, as we wind down here
57:13
Speaker 3: right now, you have an opportunity to give yourself a
57:16
Speaker 3: piece of advice, knowing what you know now when it
57:18
Speaker 3: comes to that evolution of you as a leader, having
57:23
Speaker 3: to let go of some of the things that once
57:25
Speaker 3: brought you a lot of joy, understanding that it's for
57:27
Speaker 3: the betterment of the greater team. As you stand on
57:31
Speaker 3: the ship's bridge. What advice do you tell yourself.
57:35
Speaker 1: I'm going to go with one I'm going to do.
57:36
Speaker 1: I'm going to circle back to my daughter one more time.
57:39
Speaker 1: It was when I became a VP at Starbucks. I
57:42
Speaker 1: got my first office and had a chalkboard wall and
57:46
Speaker 1: she was I don't know, maybe twelve ten, and she
57:49
Speaker 1: wrote on the chalkboard I'm possible, like I a postviem
57:54
Speaker 1: and then possible. And so I would just give that
57:57
Speaker 1: to any young person's early career is just remember that
58:02
Speaker 1: you're the one that's going to make this happen. No
58:04
Speaker 1: one else around you is going to do it. You
58:06
Speaker 1: have to chart your own course. You have to plan it,
58:09
Speaker 1: take the initiative to do it, and sometimes it can
58:12
Speaker 1: be scary, but again, just take that small step first
58:15
Speaker 1: and break it down and it will all come over time.
58:18
Speaker 1: And you also don't have to have all the answers.
58:20
Speaker 1: You know, you don't have to have your entire life
58:21
Speaker 1: planned out. You can break your life down into small,
58:24
Speaker 1: little chunks too.
58:25
Speaker 3: Yes, the little doables make all of the difference. Well,
58:29
Speaker 3: I am feeling inspired right now. I am going to
58:32
Speaker 3: tackle the rest of my inbox. I'm going to go
58:34
Speaker 3: on with my day. For those that want to keep
58:36
Speaker 3: up with you, Melanie and follow along with what's going
58:39
Speaker 3: on at Brooks give us the details.
58:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely follow us on Instagram at Brooks Running and
58:46
Speaker 1: then you can find me on.
58:48
Speaker 3: LinkedIn Beautiful, I'm Over, at Emily A Body, and at
58:52
Speaker 3: Hurdle Podcast Another Hurdle Conquered.
58:55
Speaker 2: Catch you guys next time.
59:01
Speaker 1: A