Latest / Deep-Grace Diving with Tim Wright and Terey Summers / #81 The Epic Battle Between the Empire and Grace

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#81 The Epic Battle Between the Empire and Grace · Deep-Grace Diving with Tim Wright and Terey Summers

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_03: Joy to the world.
• 0:29
  That night there were shepherds out in the field keeping watch
• 0:31
  over their flocks by
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  SPEAKER_01: night,
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  SPEAKER_01: and an angel of the Lord appeared to them,
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: and the glory of the Lord shone around them,
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  SPEAKER_01: and they were terrified.
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  SPEAKER_01: But the angel said to them,
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  SPEAKER_01: Don't be afraid,
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  SPEAKER_01: for see I'm bringing you good news of great joy,
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: for to you is born this day in the city of David a Savior,
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  SPEAKER_01: and he is Christ the Lord.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Tim Wright here along with John Burgess and Terry Summers,
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: the Deep Grace Diving podcast,
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: and we are continuing our Advent look at the coming of Jesus today.
• 1:02
  and kind of a mini two-part series on Luke's use of the birth
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  stories of Jesus,
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  sort of as his overture to give us some insight into who this
• 1:14
  Jesus is that we're
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: going to read about in the rest of his gospel.
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  SPEAKER_01: And last time we talked about his use of the virgin birth.
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  SPEAKER_01: And just to review quickly, and then I'll bring John and Terry in.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: To review quickly,
• 1:27
  Luke is making a sort of a theological statement about Jesus
• 1:31
  through the use of the
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: virgin birth.
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  SPEAKER_01: He's also making an almost political statement,
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  SPEAKER_01: where in the Old Testament,
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: miraculous births happened to couples who were barren.
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  The birth of Jesus stands outside of that,
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  happening to a young virgin girl.
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  SPEAKER_01: And then he also uses it to compare Jesus with Caesar Augustus,
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: who claimed that he was the son of a god.
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  SPEAKER_01: The god Apollo basically had his way with Augustus' mother.
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  And so here we have this story of Jesus where God comes and
• 2:16
  asks permission of Mary
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: to be able to impregnate her,
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  SPEAKER_01: which seems a little crass,
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  SPEAKER_01: but that's what happened,
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  SPEAKER_01: with the baby,
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  SPEAKER_01: but not through sex.
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  SPEAKER_01: It was just a miraculous virgin conception.
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  SPEAKER_01: And where a lot of this stuff comes from,
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  SPEAKER_01: for me,
• 2:37
  it's a book called The First Christmas from Marcus Borg and
• 2:40
  John Dominic Croson.
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  And at the end of their chapter on the virgin conception,
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  here's the statement they make.
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  SPEAKER_01: Therefore,
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  SPEAKER_01: the proper question is not about the biology of the mother,
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  SPEAKER_01: but the destiny of the child.
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  SPEAKER_01: What is that destiny?
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  SPEAKER_01: And once you know it, are you willing to commit your life to it?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: To Caesar the Augustus, for example, or to Jesus the Christ?
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  SPEAKER_01: And so that's what we looked at in the last podcast,
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: really setting the stage for the birth of Jesus.
• 3:12
  And now Luke in chapter 2 is going to build on his contrast and
• 3:17
  comparison between
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus and the empire represented by Caesar Augustus.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're going to talk about that here in just a few moments.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: John and Terry are back with us today.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Hello to both of you.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: Hey,
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: and Tim,
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  SPEAKER_02: are we still in the,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: we talked a lot last time about the overture and kind of what that meant.
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  SPEAKER_02: Are we still in the overture?
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  SPEAKER_01: Right.
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  SPEAKER_01: We're still in the overture.
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  So we talked last time about how Luke uses the first couple
• 3:46
  chapters of his gospel
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  SPEAKER_01: to create the themes that he will touch on later.
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  SPEAKER_01: And what we're going to see this more today, more clearly is,
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  But one of the themes is that Jesus is a new thing that God is
• 4:01
  doing with the people of Israel.
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  SPEAKER_01: One of the themes is that Jesus is a superior person.
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  SPEAKER_01: Caesar, or king, to the Roman Empire, and it's Caesar.
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  SPEAKER_01: And that Jesus comes to bring a very different kind of kingdom,
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  SPEAKER_01: one not of violence,
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  SPEAKER_01: but of grace and mercy and compassion.
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  That's why we call this podcast the epic battle between the
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  empire and grace.
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  SPEAKER_01: And we're going to tease that out as we dive now into Luke 2.
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  SPEAKER_01: So Luke 2 is still overture stuff.
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  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_01: Not unlike...
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  Yeah,
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  not unlike our own podcast music,
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  which is getting fantastic,
• 4:38
  by the way.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was me singing.
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  SPEAKER_01: Was it?
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: So, but before we go on, I want to do a callback.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Terry loves callbacks.
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  SPEAKER_01: In the drama world, callbacks are a good thing.
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  SPEAKER_01: John is back from Disneyland, and a couple podcasts ago, we talked about
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  the war on Christmas and how there are Christians who keep
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  saying there's this war
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  SPEAKER_01: on Christmas.
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  SPEAKER_01: People are trying to downplay Christmas.
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  SPEAKER_01: And John just got back from Disney world where there are some people,
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  some Christians who would say it is the bastion of secularism
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  and consumerism.
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  SPEAKER_01: And in many ways it is.
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  I just paid at Disneyland and mortgaged my house for the third
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  time just to get a ticket.
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  SPEAKER_01: John, you're there at Christmas time.
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  And tell us some of the amazing things that you saw happening
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  there with this
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  SPEAKER_01: supposed war on Christmas at Disney World.
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  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_02: Well, you'll be very happy with me.
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  SPEAKER_02: I, I got my Starbucks coffee.
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  I crossed out all these snowflakes and I wrote Merry Christmas
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  on with my Sharpie.
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  SPEAKER_02: And then whenever anybody said happy holidays,
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  SPEAKER_02: I got in their face and demanded a Merry Christmas back.
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  SPEAKER_02: So I didn't do that at all.
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  SPEAKER_02: No.
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  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for playing along with my little game.
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  SPEAKER_02: It was great.
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  SPEAKER_02: It was not inexpensive.
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  SPEAKER_02: So there's certainly plenty of consumerism.
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  SPEAKER_02: There's the consumerism,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: the ticket to get in the park,
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  and then there's all the stuff that they sort of whack you with
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  after you got
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  SPEAKER_02: there.
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  SPEAKER_02: But when we were there, it was the day after Thanksgiving.
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  SPEAKER_02: We weren't the only people there.
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  And most of Disney World,
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  we were at Epcot that day,
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  was decked out for Christmas.
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  SPEAKER_02: And as you walked around,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: the different nations around the pond there,
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  SPEAKER_02: there was a lot of Christmassy stuff going on.
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  SPEAKER_02: We stopped for a puppet show at the at the German Pavilion,
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  SPEAKER_02: and he was talking about the Christ child,
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  SPEAKER_02: which was which was great.
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  And then we,
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  we did go to the candlelight processional kind of their special
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  Christmas show.
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  That is,
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  uh,
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  the story actually read from scripture,
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  um,
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  of,
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  uh,
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  the birth of Jesus.
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  SPEAKER_02: It's read by a, uh, an artist, uh, an actor.
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  SPEAKER_02: And,
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  SPEAKER_02: um,
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  SPEAKER_02: it comes with this full,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: the,
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  SPEAKER_02: they had heralds with trumpets and it was a huge Disney production.
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  SPEAKER_02: It was all about Christmas.
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  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and it was fantastic.
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  SPEAKER_02: The whole thing was great.
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  SPEAKER_02: And, um,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: the overarching love as they read,
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  SPEAKER_02: sorry,
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  SPEAKER_02: the overarching story as they read the theme,
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  SPEAKER_02: plenty of crescendos there,
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  SPEAKER_02: right?
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  SPEAKER_02: But the theme was that Jesus comes for love for all people.
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  SPEAKER_02: And he shows us how to do that.
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  And I just thought it was a great place to be with a really
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  important message for
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  SPEAKER_02: my family,
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  SPEAKER_02: my kids,
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  SPEAKER_02: and everybody else that was there.
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  SPEAKER_02: It was really good.
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  SPEAKER_02: And just think about...
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  SPEAKER_01: the thousands and thousands of people who are,
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  who are going to see that performance over the course of a
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  month or however long
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  SPEAKER_01: they do it,
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  SPEAKER_01: who probably will never step foot into a church.
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  And yet there they have a church experience showing once again,
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  there's not a war on Christmas.
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  SPEAKER_01: Christmas is happening.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's breaking out everywhere.
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  SPEAKER_01: And,
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  SPEAKER_01: um,
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  SPEAKER_01: as Christians,
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  SPEAKER_01: we have this great opportunity to celebrate along with our friends and,
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  SPEAKER_01: and,
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  SPEAKER_01: uh,
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  And invite our friends to church if we've got stuff happening
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  in our churches.
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  But also just to sit back and enjoy the way the world
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  celebrates the birth of Jesus
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  SPEAKER_01: in a variety of ways.
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  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_02: And I think,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: for me,
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  SPEAKER_02: and I don't know what you guys think of this,
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  SPEAKER_02: but I oftentimes think that,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: Jesus,
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  SPEAKER_02: God has his own path for everybody.
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  And sometimes that path for all of us involves this little
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  drops of grace.
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  SPEAKER_02: And maybe...
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  SPEAKER_02: Maybe the folks walking by,
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  SPEAKER_02: and there was Christmas carols playing everywhere,
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  SPEAKER_02: but maybe the folks walking by tapped their toe a couple times,
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  and maybe that was just the drop of grace that they're going to
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  get that day.
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  And only God knows the other drops of grace that are going to
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  come after that.
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  SPEAKER_02: So I thought it was beautiful.
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  SPEAKER_01: So we have a big grace story that we're moving into now.
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  Again,
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  just to remind us of the context,
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  Luke is using these birth stories of Jesus to
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  to set the stage for the coming of Jesus and the kingdom that
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  he will bring,
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  SPEAKER_01: comparing and contrasting it to the kingdom that the Roman empire brings.
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  And so we sort of looked at the virgin conception of Jesus and
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  how it contrasts
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  SPEAKER_01: with that of what Augustus claimed for himself.
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  SPEAKER_01: And now we're going to look at through,
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  SPEAKER_01: I think one of the most beautiful passages written anywhere,
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  SPEAKER_01: period.
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  SPEAKER_01: Um,
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  SPEAKER_01: We're going to see just how amazing Luke,
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  SPEAKER_01: under the guidance of the Holy Spirit,
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  SPEAKER_01: is with not only the beauty of this passage,
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  SPEAKER_01: but its depth and the politics behind it,
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  SPEAKER_01: so to speak.
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  So Jerry's going to read for us my favorite story,
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  Luke 2,
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  verses 1 through 20.
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  SPEAKER_01: Great.
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  SPEAKER_00: At that time,
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  the Roman Emperor Augustus decreed that a census should be
• 10:03
  taken throughout the
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  SPEAKER_00: Roman Empire.
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  SPEAKER_00: This was the first census taken when Cranerius was governor of Syria.
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  SPEAKER_00: All returned to their own ancestral towns to register for this census.
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  And because Joseph was a descendant of King David,
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  he had to go to Bethlehem in Judea.
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  SPEAKER_00: David's ancient home.
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  SPEAKER_00: He traveled there from the village of Nazareth in Galilee.
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  He took with him Mary,
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  to whom he was engaged,
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  who was now expecting a child.
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  SPEAKER_00: And while they were there, the time came for her baby to be born.
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  SPEAKER_00: She gave birth to her firstborn son.
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  She wrapped him snugly in strips of cloth and laid him in a
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  manger because there
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  SPEAKER_00: was no lodging available for them.
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  That night,
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  there were shepherds staying in the fields nearby,
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  guarding their flocks of sheep.
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  SPEAKER_00: Suddenly,
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  SPEAKER_00: an angel of the Lord appeared among them,
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  SPEAKER_00: and the radiance of the Lord's glory surrounded them.
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  They were terrified,
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  but the angel reassured them,
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  Don't be afraid,
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  he said.
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  SPEAKER_00: I bring you good news that will bring great joy to all people.
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  The Savior,
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  yes,
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  the Messiah,
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  the Lord,
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  has been born today in Bethlehem,
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  the city of David.
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  SPEAKER_00: And you will recognize him by this sign.
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  You will find a baby wrapped snugly in strips of cloth,
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  lying in a manger.
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  SPEAKER_00: Suddenly,
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  SPEAKER_00: the angel was joined by a vast host of others,
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  SPEAKER_00: the armies of heaven,
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  SPEAKER_00: praising God and saying,
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  Glory to God in the highest heaven and peace on earth to those
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  with whom God is
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  SPEAKER_00: pleased.
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  When the angels had returned to heaven,
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  the shepherds said to each other,
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  Let's go to Bethlehem.
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  Let's see this thing that has happened,
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  which the Lord has told us about.
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  SPEAKER_00: They hurried to the village and found Mary and Joseph.
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  SPEAKER_00: And there was the baby lying in the manger.
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  SPEAKER_00: After seeing him,
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  the shepherds told everyone what had happened and what the
• 12:49
  angel had said to them
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  SPEAKER_00: about this child.
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  SPEAKER_00: All who heard the shepherd's story were astonished.
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  SPEAKER_00: But Mary kept all these things in her heart and thought about them often.
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  SPEAKER_00: The shepherds went back to their flocks,
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  SPEAKER_00: glorifying and praising God for all they had heard and seen.
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  SPEAKER_00: It was just as the angel had told them.
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  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Terry.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Over our podcast,
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: when we've done Bible studies together,
• 13:27
  we always remind ourselves that it's important to read the
• 13:30
  Bible as the Bible wants
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  SPEAKER_01: to be read.
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  SPEAKER_01: Which means,
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  SPEAKER_01: first of all,
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: that we need to understand the context in which the story was written,
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: the kind of literature it is,
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: who the audience is,
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: what the author is trying to do,
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: and then ask the questions,
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: what is it saying to us?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: And to be careful about imposing...
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: the way that we view the articulation of truth versus how they did it.
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  SPEAKER_01: For example,
• 14:00
  we tend to think that a story is true if it's fact-based and
• 14:05
  it's a newspaper
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: account.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: But for the biblical writers and for us as well,
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: truth can also be shared through metaphor and through poetry.
• 14:16
  And so we always want to be a little bit careful about trying
• 14:21
  to impose a type of
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: literature onto Scripture in a way that it's not meant to be.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: So,
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: for example,
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: if you try to read the Psalms as literal history or newspaper accounts,
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: you're going to miss everything because it's poetry.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: And the same is true oftentimes with the prophets in the Old Testament.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: You need to read it as it was written and understand the context.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: So Tim, I just want to make sure we don't lose your point on metaphor.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: There's truth in metaphor, right?
• 14:49
  So if I say,
• 14:51
  um,
• 14:52
  I was just at Disney world and there were a million people
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  there.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: There weren't a million people there.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: No, but there was a lot and I don't know how many there were.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: And we would all say, John's telling us the truth.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was packed.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, um,
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: When people look,
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: when scholars look at this story,
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: there are a couple of challenges that people have with it.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: One,
• 15:25
  there doesn't seem to be any record in the Roman Empire of a
• 15:31
  massive census being
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: taken at that time.
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  SPEAKER_01: Secondly, Quirinius is a real person, but...
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: wasn't doing this thing at that time.
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  So you could look at that and say,
• 15:51
  well,
• 15:52
  this isn't a true story if the facts don't line up.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Or you could ask the question, what is Luke doing?
• 15:59
  And it's the same thing Luke was doing when he talked about the
• 16:01
  virgin birth.
• 16:02
  He is using a metaphor to say something profound about Jesus
• 16:08
  and to get us ready
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: for the kind of kingdom that Jesus will bring.
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  SPEAKER_01: That's not to say the story isn't true.
• 16:17
  I don't want people walking away saying,
• 16:19
  well,
• 16:20
  Jesus wasn't born in a manger.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus wasn't born in Bethlehem.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's not what I'm saying.
• 16:23
  What I'm saying is Luke is telling the story from a different
• 16:26
  perspective,
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: and we want to understand that perspective.
• 16:31
  We want to understand the theological points he's making about
• 16:34
  Jesus and the
• 16:37
  overture that he's making about Jesus to get us ready for the
• 16:40
  Jesus story.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: So let me tease that out so I think you'll understand as we go along.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Luke's Gospel,
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: in many ways,
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: is this confrontation between the Kingdom of God,
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: represented by Jesus,
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: and the Kingdom of the Roman Empire.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll see this conflict happen over and over again.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to see that the kingdom,
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: as we read through the Gospel of Luke,
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: as people read through the Gospel of Luke,
• 17:09
  they'll see that the kingdom of Jesus is always about
• 17:12
  nonviolence and grace and
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: forgiveness.
• 17:15
  The kingdom of the Roman Empire is always about violence and
• 17:18
  taxation and domination and death.
• 17:23
  And so Luke is contrasting these two visions of the kingdom or
• 17:29
  these two visions of
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: two different kinds of kingdoms and how radically different Jesus is.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so he uses this birth story to set it up.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: If the question was from the virgin conception, who is this Jesus?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: And are we going to follow him or the Caesar?
• 17:48
  Then he's asking us that same question again in the birth story
• 17:52
  as he compares and
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: contrasts these two.
• 17:55
  Will you pledge your allegiance to the Roman emperor or will
• 17:57
  you pledge your
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: allegiance to Jesus?
• 18:01
  2,000 years later,
• 18:02
  that's the same question people should be asking themselves.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Do I pledge my allegiance first and foremost to Jesus?
• 18:10
  Or do I pledge my allegiance first and foremost to my political
• 18:13
  party or to my country?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: And Jesus takes second place or third place.
• 18:20
  So the questions that Luke raises in this gospel are questions
• 18:23
  that still resonate
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: all these years later.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: So right away, he starts out in Luke chapter 2.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: At that time, the Roman emperor, Augustus.
• 18:41
  So remember now,
• 18:42
  Augustus is the one who claimed that he was the son of God.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: He claimed to be the savior of the world.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: That his daddy was really Apollo.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And Apollo sexually forced himself onto his mother.
• 19:00
  Luke has already begun to tease out that Jesus is different
• 19:03
  because God did not
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: force God's self onto Mary.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: God did not even have sex with Mary.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: This virgin conception is very different.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then he teases it out more.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: So he's already set it up.
• 19:18
  And then the first person introduced in Luke chapter two is the
• 19:21
  Roman emperor,
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Augustus,
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: which should right away say,
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: what's he trying to tell us about Jesus versus Augustus?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: So Augustus seems to be in control, right?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: He's issued the decree.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: All of the Roman empire has to follow this decree.
• 19:38
  Joseph and his family,
• 19:39
  his fiance who is pregnant,
• 19:43
  they have to travel to Bethlehem.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: They don't really know where they're going, where they're going to stay.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: They're out of control.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: The Roman emperor seems to be in control and running people's lives.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then we see,
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: surprise,
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: surprise,
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: that the Roman emperor isn't in control,
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: that God's got a plan that's larger and more daunting and more radical.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: So Jesus gets there.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: We know the story.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: There's no room in the inn.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: She gives birth to a firstborn.
• 20:15
  So they're shepherds now,
• 20:17
  and they're keeping watch over their flocks by night.
• 20:20
  Shepherds are the lowest of the low,
• 20:24
  probably next to tax collectors in Jesus' day.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because of their profession, they're always having to watch over sheep.
• 20:34
  So they can't get to worship as much as the religious leaders
• 20:38
  would like them to.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: They stink.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: For whatever reason, they had a reputation for lying.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so in a court of law,
• 20:51
  Shepherds were not even allowed to testify because nobody would
• 20:53
  believe them.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: So who's the first person that God announces the birth of Jesus to?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Shepherds.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, why in the world would God do that?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we already have some indications.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't look at this story.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: We already have some indications.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: When Mary starts singing her song of praise,
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: when she becomes pregnant,
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: she talks about how her son is going to turn the world upside down.
• 21:20
  The poor will be made rich,
• 21:21
  the rich will be made poor,
• 21:23
  and everything will be topsy-turvy.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: The powerful will be brought low, the low will be brought up.
• 21:29
  And so right away you have an example of the lowest of the low
• 21:32
  lifted up to be the
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: first people to hear about the birth of Jesus.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: The language here is reminiscent of what the Caesar would do
• 21:46
  when the Caesar would go in to a new country that he was about
• 21:50
  to take over.
• 21:53
  And the Caesar would send his heralds to announce the good news
• 22:02
  of the kingdom.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the phrase they would use, the good news of the kingdom.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: And the good news of the Roman Empire is Rome is here.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: And we're going to take charge now.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: And we're going to bring the Pax Romana, the piece of Rome, to you.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way,
• 22:24
  the way we're going to do it is through the sword and through
• 22:27
  taxation and by
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: putting our thumbs on top of you.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't that good news, folks?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: The Roman emperor is here.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Your savior, the savior of the world, has come for you.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's how the announcement would be made by the Roman emperor,
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: by the heralds,
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: in this case angels,
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: talking about the Pax Romana,
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: the peace of Rome,
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: and that there's a new savior in town as the Roman emperor.
• 22:56
  And so Luke uses that exact same language to talk about the
• 23:00
  birth of Jesus.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: He says, don't be afraid I bring you good news.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's the Roman term.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: And the good news for the Romans was we're here to invade your country.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: We're here to take care of you by taking control of you.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: You're welcome.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Of great joy for all the people.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, Rome's aim was to control everybody.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: The whole to take over the world domination.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Augustus was sort of the precursor to Austin Powers.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: The bad guy in Austin Powers.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: You won't hear that on any other podcast.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm telling you, these things still track over 2,000 years.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Who was the bad guy in Austin Powers?
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: The one who kept putting his little finger up to his face.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I bring you good news of great joy.
• 23:53
  So this is the language the heralds would have used announcing
• 23:56
  the coming of the Roman Empire.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: But the angels are using it to announce the coming of Jesus.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: The Savior.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: So...
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Caesar Augustus literally saw himself as the Savior of the world.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: That was one of his titles, Savior and Lord.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Savior and Lord.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: The Savior, and then Luke gives a nod to his Jewish readers.
• 24:20
  Yes,
• 24:20
  the Messiah,
• 24:21
  the Lord,
• 24:21
  has been born today in Bethlehem,
• 24:23
  the city of David.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so now we sort of move from a comparison between Rome and Jesus,
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: but now we have a message for the Jewish people to say,
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: your Savior has come,
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: by the way.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: He's not just going to take on the Roman emperor,
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: but he is your savior,
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: the one you've been looking for.
• 24:42
  And the sign,
• 24:42
  of course,
• 24:42
  is that you will find him wrapped in strips of cloth lying in a
• 24:46
  manger.
• 24:47
  And then they're joined,
• 24:48
  glory to God in the highest heaven and peace on earth.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Again,
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Pax Romana,
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: the peace of Rome,
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: the savior of the world,
• 24:57
  the Roman emperor is bringing you the peace of Rome through
• 24:59
  violence and terror.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: This savior born in a manger, not in a palace,
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: who comes as a baby,
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: not as a conquering king,
• 25:09
  this savior of the world literally will come to save the world
• 25:13
  through grace,
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: mercy,
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: and compassion.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: So when I say that Luke is writing with a particular purpose in mind,
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: he is not writing out,
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: his first task is not to write out the facts of how Jesus was born.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: His first task is to use a birth story to compare and contrast Jesus,
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: the Savior of the world,
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: with Augustus,
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: the Savior of the world,
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: and to get us ready for a new kind of king.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: Essentially,
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: what Luke is saying in this story is there's a new Caesar in town,
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: and he's radically different.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: Now,
• 25:56
  I want to pause there and then tease it out a little more so we
• 25:59
  see where Luke is
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: going with this.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: But let me hear from you what your questions are, if any.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think what I've been told is Luke is the doctor, right?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: Or the physician.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: Luke is a physician, right?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: The only Gentile writer in the Bible.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:18
  And normally,
• 26:19
  and he starts off his gospel by saying he wants to create an
• 26:24
  orderly account.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that's where it sort of starts off speaking to my,
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: my,
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: my interest in a journalistic fact-based recitation of what's going on.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a, it's a brand new vision that you're painting.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: If I start with those words,
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: ironically,
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: from a journalistic standpoint,
• 26:48
  that I'm expecting there to be facts and circumstances later
• 26:51
  that are documented,
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: verified and accurate.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:57
  But what you're encouraging us to do is look at a different
• 27:00
  theme that was his
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: intent,
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: at least at this point in the gospel.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: If we remember,
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: especially when you read Paul's letters,
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: he makes no reference to the birth of Jesus at all.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: What makes Jesus Jesus for Paul is the resurrection of Jesus.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's the confirmation.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so for the early church, that was what made Jesus Jesus.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Not his birth, not the circumstances of his birth.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was his death and resurrection.
• 27:32
  These birth stories,
• 27:33
  and let's just put aside whether they're accurate or not.
• 27:36
  We know that they can't quite both be true because Matthew's
• 27:40
  and Luke's telling of
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: the story are different.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: The birth stories in ancient literature were stories that were created...
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: to set up the importance of the story we're about to read.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: Say that one more time.
• 27:58
  They were set up,
• 27:59
  they were created to prepare us for the story that we're about
• 28:04
  to read.
• 28:05
  The story that we're reading about Jesus begins when he begins
• 28:08
  his ministry.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Essentially.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Now, Luke does have something when Jesus is 12.
• 28:15
  But other than that,
• 28:16
  every other gospel starts with Jesus beginning his ministry.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's what matters.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: The birth stories get us ready for that ministry.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: And this is an ancient tool that they would use.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: When there was someone famous,
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: you would go back and you would write their birth story to say,
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: this is why you need to pay attention.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: He's writing a
• 28:35
  What we need to remember about the Gospels is that they're
• 28:37
  first and foremost
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: faith-based theologies about Jesus.
• 28:43
  Not just the facts about him,
• 28:45
  but they're also saying something theologically about him.
• 28:49
  They're writing their story in such a way to present him as the
• 28:52
  Savior of the world.
• 28:54
  They're not just writing all these stories and saying,
• 28:56
  Jesus did this,
• 28:57
  Jesus did that.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: He claimed to be the Savior of the world.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: They already know what they think and they want you to believe it too.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: So they have an agenda and their agenda is to say,
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: this is what we believe about Jesus based on who he is,
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: based on what he did.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 29:17
  But also you need to know,
• 29:18
  we believe that he is the true savior of the world.
• 29:21
  We believe that he did come to be a new kind of Messiah or a
• 29:25
  new kind of Caesar.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so you want to read these stories.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: Certainly we can read them and say this really happened.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: No problem.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: But if all we do is say that really happened and we leave it there,
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: we miss the beauty of what's really happening in the story.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the setup, like you say.
• 29:44
  Luke is intentionally using language to say something radical
• 29:50
  about this Jesus born
• 29:52
  in a little tiny corner of the Roman Empire and this little
• 29:56
  baby who was born...
• 29:58
  in a manger in a place where there was no room that little baby
• 30:02
  has more power than
• 30:04
  the whole Roman Empire combined now the Romans would have read
• 30:09
  that and just
• 30:10
  laughed yeah right and then 300 some years later Rome is now a
• 30:17
  Christian quote
• 30:19
  unquote Christianized yeah so now let me just tease this out a
• 30:26
  little bit more
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: I want to take you over to Luke chapter 4.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: So if we've used Luke chapters 1 through 3 as an overture,
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: where he is creating these stories to get us ready for Jesus,
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: who is the new Caesar,
• 30:44
  and getting ready for us to see Jesus in light of this epic
• 30:47
  battle between
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: empires of war and violence and terror and coercion,
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: and the empire of Jesus or the kingdom of God,
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: which is an empire of grace and mercy and compassion,
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: then we read Luke's gospel and we begin to see it with different eyes.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: We begin to see a different kind of story evolving.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: So in Luke chapter 4, Jesus goes home.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: And he preaches his very first sermon.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: So now we're kind of at the heart now of the ministry of Jesus.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: He's gone through his temptation.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: He's gone home.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: He's beginning his ministry.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: He's been baptized.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: And he reads these words from Isaiah.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: The Spirit of the Lord is upon me.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: He has anointed me to bring good news to the poor.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: He has sent me to proclaim that captives will be released,
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: that the blind will see,
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: that the oppressed will be set free,
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: and that the time of the Lord's favor has come.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then he rolled that scroll up.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: He sat down and basically he said this,
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: that guy you've been waiting for all these years,
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the guy.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the one who's going to bring peace.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to feed the poor, the hungry, the destitute.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to stand on the side of the oppressed.
• 32:09
  That one mission statement is complete contrasting of the
• 32:14
  mission statement of
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: Rome,
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: which is to conquer and to tax and to oppress.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: And Luke has set us up for that in those birth stories.
• 32:31
  And we will see over and over again those conflicts between
• 32:35
  Rome and Jesus,
• 32:37
  and really between Jesus and some of the religious
• 32:39
  fundamentalists who buy into
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: power rather than mercy and grace.
• 32:46
  We see at the end of the story,
• 32:48
  I just want to make sure,
• 32:49
  of course,
• 32:50
  he's before Pilate,
• 32:51
  right?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: And Pilate represents Rome.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: And who is it that ultimately condemns Jesus to death?
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's Rome.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's the way that Rome operates through fear and through death.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then Jesus just sort of turns it upside down.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: When he dies, Jesus shouted, Father, I entrust my spirit in your hands.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: When the Roman officer overseeing the execution saw what had happened,
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: he worshiped God and said,
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: surely this man was innocent.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: So you start the story with Jesus being forced by the Roman emperor,
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: his parents to go and have a census taken.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus is good news versus the good news of the Roman empire.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: And the Roman empire has put Jesus to death.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a Roman soldier who looks at that guy and says, we got it wrong.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then Jesus rises from the dead to validate everything he said.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where the birth story becomes overture.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: To the whole gospel.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Now, having said all that, let's not lose the beauty of the story itself.
• 34:05
  Yeah.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the story is just beautiful.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:09
  About a God who would enter into human history and would come
• 34:12
  to us not with
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: flourish and with power,
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: but as a baby and come in humility.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: And in many ways, becomes just like us, needy and dependent.
• 34:26
  I mean,
• 34:26
  think of the creator of the universe coming to earth dependent
• 34:29
  on creation.
• 34:32
  And again,
• 34:33
  to talk about the Roman emperor,
• 34:36
  they weren't dependent on anyone.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: At least they didn't think they were, right?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: They had all the power and might.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: And yet God comes in what Paul later calls foolishness,
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: comes in weakness,
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: the weakness of the manger,
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: the weakness of the cross,
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: and that's where we see true power.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: I have one more little tidbit here on this story before we call it,
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: but I want to see how you guys are doing,
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: what you're thinking,
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: what comes to mind.
• 35:13
  Well,
• 35:15
  I have,
• 35:16
  like John mentioned earlier,
• 35:17
  it is a different perspective and I hadn't
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think intentionally thought about the setup,
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: but I think just my understanding,
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: not knowing all that you've shared,
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: but,
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: but that in the beauty of the story,
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: I just,
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: just the ideas of now,
• 35:42
  now I'm trying to think backwards because I'm trying to think
• 35:45
  of what I knew before
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: you just said all this,
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: but yeah,
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: that there,
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: there is this,
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: like the thing that comes to mind,
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: it's like,
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: this is sort of Velcro for everything to stick to,
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: and,
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just super cool.
• 36:06
  You know,
• 36:07
  I,
• 36:07
  I,
• 36:08
  I don't think it takes away from anything of the beauty of the
• 36:11
  story.
• 36:12
  Like I like to stay in my little thing,
• 36:14
  you know,
• 36:15
  where I remember those stories from that time.
• 36:18
  It's one of the first things I ever memorized when I was like
• 36:20
  four at church,
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: I got to read this scripture and I had it totally memorized.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's just dear to me.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: as I'm sure it is for,
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: for all of us,
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: but this kind of gives it,
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think I said it like Velcro,
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: it sticks.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then to see it all the way through, you know, like, that's like, wow.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: I, I don't know.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a structure that I didn't have before.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: What's,
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: what's sort of interesting is when we,
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: when we read it at Christmas time,
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: of course,
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: it's a highly romanticized picture of,
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: of the birth of Jesus, in part because it's written that way, right?
• 36:59
  It's just beautiful language and we think of a way in a manger
• 37:02
  and while shepherds
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: watch their flocks by night,
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: all those things.
• 37:06
  The reality is when Luke was writing it,
• 37:08
  he was writing it as religious propaganda.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: He was making a political statement against Rome.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: The kind of statement you make, by the way, that gets you killed.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: So when people said Jesus is Lord...
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: that wasn't just a religious comment.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: That was a political comment because if you said anyone was Lord,
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: but Caesar,
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: you would be killed because Caesar was the one Lord.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: So again,
• 37:39
  I don't want us to miss the beauty and the romance of the story
• 37:42
  and the wonder of
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: Christmas.
• 37:44
  But I also think it's important for us just to sort of see what
• 37:47
  Luke is really
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: doing with this story.
• 37:48
  So that as we move from Christmas into the life of Jesus over
• 37:52
  the next year,
• 37:54
  that we see that this was a story about the conflict of two
• 37:59
  different versions of kingdom.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: A kingdom of power and might and oppression,
• 38:06
  a kingdom usually for the powerful and the rich at the expense
• 38:09
  of the poor and the
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: outcast,
• 38:11
  or a kingdom that started with the poor and the outcast and
• 38:15
  elevated those who were
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: oppressed to say that you too are the image of God.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that cares for the poor, that cares for the least of these.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: A story that still resonates in most kingdoms to this day.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: Let me close with this.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: I am a huge Victor Mature fan.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: And probably three people know who Victor Mature is.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just pause while everybody looks that up.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: So he was...
• 38:48
  For those of you who like old movies,
• 38:51
  he was Samson in Samson and Delilah.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: And he played in two big movies.
• 38:58
  One of the big movies back in the 1950s was The Robe,
• 39:01
  the first movie made in CinemaScope.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it was based on a book written by Lloyd Douglas,
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: starred Victor Matur and Gene Simmons,
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: who's amazing.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: And some guy called Richard Burton.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, the story, it's a made-up story.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: But what I love about the story,
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: and I've read the book several times,
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: watched the movies several times,
• 39:28
  is the author puts the story of Jesus into the context of the
• 39:32
  Roman Empire.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: And the gist of the story is that when Jesus is crucified by Marcellus,
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: played by Richard Burton,
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: he wins the robe.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: as they cast lots in front of Jesus' feet,
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: Richard Burton has his hand on the cross,
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: on the base of the cross,
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: and some of Jesus' blood gets onto his hand,
• 39:55
  and he essentially goes mad because he knows that he's
• 40:00
  crucified an innocent man.
• 40:03
  And so he's told by the Roman soothsayers that if he gets the
• 40:09
  robe and just claims
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: the robe again,
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: that he'll break the curse.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: So he goes seeking the robe,
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: which he had given to his slave,
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: wonderfully played by Victor Mature,
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: Demetrius.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: He gets the robe,
• 40:24
  and just touching the robe brings him back to that moment when
• 40:28
  Jesus said,
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: Father,
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: forgive them because they don't know what they're doing.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: He realizes that that message was for him as well.
• 40:35
  So the movie ends with this epic scene between Marcellus,
• 40:40
  who is now a follower of Jesus,
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: and the Roman Emperor Caligula,
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: played wonderfully by J.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: Robinson,
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: who was as mad an emperor as you can imagine.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: And Caligula, from his seat of power, is interrogating Marcellus.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: And at one point,
• 41:00
  he's just incredulous at these stories that Marcellus is
• 41:03
  telling him about Jesus.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: And Caligula says,
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: tell me,
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: Tribune,
• 41:06
  do you expect me to believe these stories that this Jesus could
• 41:09
  heal people by the
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: touch of his hands,
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: make the crippled walk in the blind see again?
• 41:15
  And Marcellus says,
• 41:16
  makes no difference whether you believe them or not,
• 41:18
  sire.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: All that matters is there is no story that he ever made anyone blind.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: There is no story that he made anyone a cripple.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: or ever raised his hand except to heal.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: In other words, Caligula, that's what we do.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: We kill, we maim, we destroy.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: But this Jesus in his kingdom gives life.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I just thought he summarized so well,
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: really what Luke is trying to tell us,
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: starting with the birth stories.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: that there is this Jesus who comes with a radically different story.
• 42:00
  And that story to those of us who are citizens of empires and
• 42:03
  countries is that we
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: are called to love,
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: to be gracious,
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: to feed the hungry,
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: to care for the outcast and to seek power,
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: not through violence or power itself,
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: but to seek it through service and love and compassion.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's what the Christmas story is all about.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna end with a song.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: And let me just give you a little backstory on this one.
• 42:27
  Our Christmas episode is going a little long,
• 42:29
  and I'll just play an excerpt.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: One of my favorite singers now was B.J.
• 42:35
  Thomas,
• 42:36
  Hooked on a Feeling Rock and Roll Lullaby,
• 42:38
  Raindrops Keep Falling on My Head.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: We became friends,
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: and several years ago during COVID,
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: we asked him if he would record a few songs for us,
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: and then our group,
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: our band,
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: and our singers then added their voices to it.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a song that he recorded for us.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's called Take a Walk Through Bethlehem.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: And if you want to see the video,
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: just go to YouTube and put in Take a Walk,
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: BJ Thomas,
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: Community of Grace,
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: and you'll see the video.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: But we'll close with some of this music.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: Next week will be our final Advent podcast.
• 43:16
  And we're going to talk with Terry about how do you get through
• 43:19
  Christmas when you're grieving?
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: So we're going to give Terry a week to get ready for that one.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: Or in our case, about 10 minutes.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, everybody.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: Share it with a friend.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_02: Bye-bye.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_03: The city's decorated up
• 43:51
  All the shores are open late tonight People hurry through the
• 43:56
  frozen streets I'll
• 43:58
  take a war Every child has a thousand wishes Every window has a
• 44:08
  thousand lights
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_03: Every soul has a need for peace I'll take a war There's a
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_03: You can find it if you close your eyes and see the light.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_03: Let's take a walk through Bethlehem.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_03: Come and kneel before the Lamb of the News.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, every man walks through Bethlehem.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_03: Every night another TV special.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_03: Merchants counting down the shopping days.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_03: Something's missing underneath the tree.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_03: Every heart longs for more than tinsel.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_03: Something more than just a holiday.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_03: Come and celebrate the baby king's
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have to travel anywhere.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_03: Faith and hope and love will bring you there.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_03: Bring you there.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_03: Let's take a walk.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_03: Take a walk through Bethlehem.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_03: Come near.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_03: Come near before the land.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_03: You're the news for every man.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_03: Take a walk.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_03: Come and kneel.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_03: There's good news for every man.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_03: Walk through Bethlehem.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_03: Take a walk.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_03: Come and kneel.