Latest / Legally Brunette / The Mother Who Killed Her Children: Andrea Yates

Transcript

The Mother Who Killed Her Children: Andrea Yates · Legally Brunette

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: will be your host, Emily Simpson with Shane With Shane Today.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: The bulk of this episode, we're going to go into
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: the Andrea Yates case because there's been a new documentary
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: that's come out that's kind of you know, readdressing it
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: and getting into It's on ID, but it's also I
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: watched it on Hulu, but I think it's also on
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: HBO Max.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: It's new.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: I think it came out January sixth. We're going to
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: take a deep dive into that. But before we get
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: into that, there's been a lot in the news about
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Timothy Busfield, who I didn't know who he was.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: The only do you not recognize his face? Did you?
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: I did it.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: He has a recognizable face as from some dramas and stuff.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: But so it says Timothy Busfield has been facing or
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: face as a judge on child sex abuse charges. And
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: this is in New Mexico. When I saw like it
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: came you know where I get my new Where do
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: I get my news?
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Instagram?
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: So when I saw like the Instagram, things start to
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: pop up and it was showing him I didn't make
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: really any connection to it until I saw a photo
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: of him and Melissa Gilbert, and then I.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Thought, oh, I don't okay, he is a somebody.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: And it said it was her husband, and then I
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: was like, oh no, this is like a legitimate like
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: he's a celebrity. So then I looked him up and
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: he did have a pretty big list of things that
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: he'd been in, but I didn't recognize him at all.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: But I do have to tell you, guys that the
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: reason that I know who Melissa Gilbert is and I
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: recognize her immediately is because my husband is obsessed. You
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: are obsessed. Have you seen every episode of Little House
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: on the Prairie, every every episode?
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Do you own the box set? No? I don't. You
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: do we have.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm sorry.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: He borrowed it. I don't. Yes, but you borrowed it
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: and I don't need any more. It's streaming.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: It's streaming. Yes, so he's seen every episode.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: A little high. That doesn't mean I'm obsessed.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I find it. I find your You
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: do love your Little House on the Prairie.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, Anyway, I don't anymore. You know what? Know the truth?
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: I don't watch it anymore. And I don't have an
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: interest in anymore. Why I used to watch as a
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: kid because I read up on the real Ingles family
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: and this is by far not even close. Oh and
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: that bothered you, Yeah, because it's like more glamorized kind
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: of Western, and it's not really the heartache that they
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: went through, in the troubles that the father went through
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: to really support the family and the troubles that the
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: kids went through. So now you're boycotting, Well, no, I
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: just I'm not obsessed. Okay, that's it, Okay in the story.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: All right. So a new Mexico judge, back to the pedophile,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: back to the pedophile. A New Mexico judge ordered actor
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Timothy Bussfield to be held without bond during his first
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: court appearance on Wednesday, January fourteenth on multiple child sex
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: abuse charges. The judge was Felicia Bleiah. I don't know
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: if he's that's.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: Bleyah or Blea or Blee.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Rivera has scheduled a preliminary hearing deadline of January twenty ninth.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: A lot of people thought that, I mean, it was
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: very telling that he was denied bail.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: So yeah, so he's in custody.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so he was denied.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: Crazy, why is her risk?
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: That's what well, I asked some of my lawyer friends, like, we.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Know you're not doing any work anymore. Yeah, I know
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: you're here. It has been you're going to run away.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Right, so flight risk and also I guess just risk
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: to the.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Community apparently, So that's what no bail means.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Right, So prosecutors asked the court to keep Busfield in custody,
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: arguing in an expedited motion that he poses an ongoing
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: and serious danger to children and the community. The filing
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: alleged a calculated pattern of grooming and warned that witnesses
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: feared retaliation or career harm if they reported his conduct. Busfield,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: who was sixty eight, surrendered to authorities Tuesday, January thirteenth,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: days after an arrest warrant was issued, and was booked
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: on two counts of criminal sexual contact of a minor
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: and one count of child abuse. Through his attorney, Busfield
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: has denied the allegations and said he is determined to
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: clear his name. His lawyer told Fox News Digital that
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Busfield voluntarily submitted to a polygraph examination and passed, saying
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: tim Busfield denies the allegations and the criminal complaint and
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: maintains they are completely false. You know, not only the
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: two child abuse claims are two young children that were
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: like worked on a set on a show. I think
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: it was called The Housekeeper or something that was filming
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: in New Mexico.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: This is ways Back, Yeah.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: And they were like seven and eight.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: But that's what I'm wondering. If it was a ways back,
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: doesn't lessen the crime.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: But why is the cleaning lady. I'm sorry it was
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: a cleaning lady.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: But why is he denied bail today? Like? Why is
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: he a risk today?
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: Because there was another I think there was another parent.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: I think it's a falloer that came forward and I
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: think they filed something the day he was arrested. I
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: believe that that is another child that claims that he
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: sexually abused her when she auditioned for him or something.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: Goodness, So there seems the seriousness of the crime.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. In a separate statement, Busfield lawyer said the actor
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: traveled across the country to face what he called false
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: and deeply troubling allegations, adding that a key accuser's mother
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: allegedly vowed to get her revenge after her son was
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: fired from a show. What follows appears to be a
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: calculated effort to construct a case driven by animus not fact.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: So I guess his position is that this woman, this
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: mother is just coming forward and saying that he sexually
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: abused her child because he was fired from a show.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: But there's another father that's come forward and said he's
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: sexually abused his daughter when she was a teenager and
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: she was auditioning before him, and then that he bagged
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: and pleaded after the fact and said it would be
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: detrimental to her if they came forward, and so they didn't,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: but now they are. I don't know. It seems to
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: me when there's I don't know, when there's more than one.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Well, then you start to write see a pattern.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: And then when you also have someone in a position
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: of authority that is casting people onto shows, casting children,
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of that stuff gets swept under
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: the rug because people don't want to get black bald
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: from Hollywood, and they don't they want their kids blacklisted,
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: not black bald, no, so blacklisted from Hollywood, and so
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: they they're tolerant or or they turn their head or
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: whatever because they want their kids to be child stars.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: They want them to be on TV and make all
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: the money.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: It's not like he's so famous, as evidenced by you
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: not recognizing him. I did not like he's so famous
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: that like Michael Jackson, and I'm not I'm not picking
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: whether he was guilty or not. I'm just saying you
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: could see why people might jump on that bandwagon, like, oh,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: he's he's a multi mega millionaire, super popular. Yeah, but
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: I'll get some clout if I make a complaint. But yeah,
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: who would he started? Like where has he been? He?
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: I said, I read thirty something, which I guess. Thirty
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: something was a big show when it was popular. I
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: never watched it because I was a twenty something. Thirty people,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: I was a twenty something, so I didn't watch thirty something. Yeah,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: I was watching melrose Place in nine two and one
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Party of five, So like thirty something was for old people?
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: Was yes, even though like I'm I could now have
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: a children, a child who was thirty, I would old
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: appear that, Yes, that could be on thirty something. That's
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: how old I am currently. But I don't know. Maybe
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: it's just because I mean, if he's in positions where
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: he's casting kids onto shows, then he has you know,
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: a position of authority.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I don't know. I mean, I don't know.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: The criminal complaint alleged, hold on, did I fail? That
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: means there's some evidence too, Is there more than just statements?
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: It says that one of the children went to a
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: hospital and that the doctor is the one that came forward.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: I don't know what a doctor saw in a physical
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: examination of a child that would lead them to believe
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: there was child abuse, but it has to be something
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: pretty substantial, I would think, and that's scary. So the
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: criminal complaint alleges the misconduct occurred when a child was
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: seven and eight years old on the set of The
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Cleaning Lady, where Busfield directed and appeared. The investigation began
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: in November first of twenty twenty four after a hospital
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: report alerted police. That's the part where it's like if
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: it's if your child's at a hospital and they come
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: to you and say I think your child's been sexually abused,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: then there's visually or something going on, yes, and like
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: that's I don't know. An independent investigation commissioned by Warner
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Brothers found no corroborating evidence of inappropriate conduct.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but they're also biased yeah.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: I know. When I read that too, I'm like, I
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: want want wall.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like, nothing to see here, Walmart. We investigated
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: our CEO and he seems perfectly fine. It's honest. Has
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: come out next week.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Investigator Christina McGovern said she found no evidence at bus
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: bus Field engaged in inappropriate conduct or that he was
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: ever alone with the twins on set. Warner Brothers said
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: it is cooperating with law enforcement and takes allegations involving
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: minors seriously. Busfield's wife, actor Melissa Gilbert, has not commented publicly.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Her representative said she is honoring her husband's lawyer's requests
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: for silence, warning that any online claim should not be
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: treated as coming from her. I can't imagine what she's
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: thinking right now.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: I think she deleted like social media and stuff.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Probably because I mean, people are probably all over it.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's not lower ingles anymore. Now she's the wife
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: of a suspect of an alleged pedophile. Alleged. Yeah, it's
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: one thing, even if it's alleged, it's something. I never
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: want to be called an allegendile.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: No, even if you put a lleged before it, right,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: it's still damaging. Yeah, exactly, So we will. We will
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: continue to follow this story because I'm sure that there's
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: going to be a lot.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: More information than or whatever it is.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: He has a preliminary hearing of January twenty ninth, so
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: that's coming up soon. My question is, do you think
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Melissa Gilbert was blindsided by this? I mean, you'd have
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: to be if you're married to a man. I can't
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: imagine that you're just okay thinking that like he's doing
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: things like that, or or are you aware and you
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: turn a blind eye or are you just completely blindsided?
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: And then what do you do? I don't know. I mean,
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: if he was my husband, are you like talking to
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: him and visiting him in January?
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: There were reports made back when it happened, and Warner Bros.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: Did an investigation at that time.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: I don't understand that period. I think, well, it says
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: the investigation began in November one of twenty twenty four,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: but I don't know exactly when the alleged.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: Assault when it first surface in some surface right, because
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: if if my workplaced in an investigation because there's accusations
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: that I committed a crime such as pedophilia, yes you
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: would know about it, right, I mean, can you imagine
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: if like ten years later, like a surfaces, You'd be like,
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: how come he didn't tell me about this? So if
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: there was some investigation, oh yeah, some reports back then,
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: and she likely knew of that much.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Right, unless there was some way he could have kept
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: it from her because it was some internal investigation, and
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: you know he didn't tell her. But I that's what
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: I'm interested in. I'm interested in how much she knew,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: what she was aware of, if she knew about the investigation,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: if she knew about the allegations, and then where where
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: her head is?
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: Right now? I dated all the hot guys like back
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: in the day, who are the hot guys? Well, I'm
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: told your Brad pits one?
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, definitely Robert. Yeah, she was like she was
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: like an it girl for he was like.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: A teen bop Yeah.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: Little lor ingles. Now she's married to a man I
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: didn't recognize who was arrested for alleged pedophilia. So how
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: the mighty have fallen?
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: Things have worked out well for all?
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Right, let's move on to Andrea Yates And do you
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: remember this story? It was two thousand and one.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: I remember just hearing mom drowns five kids while yeah,
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: you dad's at work. Dad. So I was like, oh
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: my gosh, this dad goes to work and all five
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: kids are eliminated. And then obviously now he's going to
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: lose his wife because she's psychotic.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I remember the story. There are some There
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: are certain stories that I can think back, you know,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: over my life, my almost fifty years on this earth.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: In half a century.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Yes, thank you for that.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: But there's certain like criminal stories. It's like the Meninda's brothers.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Like I remember that I was a teenager and I
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: followed that like that stands O. J.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Simpson.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Oh J. Simpson.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: That was huge.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: I was in college. That was like nineteen ninety four.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: It was my sophomore year at college. I remember that.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: I remember being in an English Clinton Clinton, that was huge.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: The impeachment like totally followed that. Watched that on the news.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: I remember I was a sophomore in college at my
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: AMMA University and it must have been ninety five, I think,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: or maybe even nineties. But the verdict came out and
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: I was sitting in an English class in college and
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: some guy in my English class went up and took
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: a chalk piece of chalk and wrote the juices loose
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: really big across the board at the front of the class,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: like before the professor came in.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: And I'll never forget that because that was O. J.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Simpson. That was huge.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: Then there was do you remember I.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: I think I was in college too when there was
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: the woman I think I can't remember her name, Susan Smith.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: I think that drowned her kids, remember like they were
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Remember she was having an affair and she drove her Yeah,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: she let go into the yes with her children. Yes,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: and then she was on the in the news saying
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: news crying for them to be brought back home. Yes,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: I remember it wasn't because she was with some new
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: guy and they didn't want kids, right, And I remember
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: that story like that stuck out and.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: I got like, I didn't want kids, but I didn't
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: want you to murder kids, right.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: So it's just and then Andrea Yates and one was
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: another one where it was like like unfathomable that just
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: this mom who's like at home with her five kids
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: and was supposedly like this dedicated, great mom and was
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: homeschooling our kids. This all of a sudden one day
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: just drowns them.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: So she was such a dedicated, great mom. Now, well,
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: I think she.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Was at one point. I think I think, well, we're
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: going to get into it. But you know, anyway, all right,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: So Andrea Yates was a Texas mother who on June twentieth,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: two thousand and one, drowned her five young children in
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: the bathtub of her home while suffering from severe postpartum psychosis.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Now I think it's interesting that it's postpartum psychosis, it's PPP,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: because I think a lot of women who have children
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: suffer from postpartum but there is that this is a
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: different level.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: Well, this is the part depression.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Right, this is the part postpartum psychosis. So we're talking
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: about a different level of.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Mental illness things.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, In the years leading up to the killings, Yates
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: experience profound mental ill including postpartum depression and psychosis, after
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: multiple pregnancies, suicide attempts, and repeated psychiatric hospitalizations. Doctors had
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: warned that additional pregnancies could trigger future psychotic episodes, but
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: she ended up getting pregnant with her fifth child shortly
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: after such warnings were made. You know, I also wondered
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: as far as the religion aspect of it or the
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: cult like behind it. I do remember because in this
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: new documentary they interview the husband, rusty ex husband, and
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: you know, he was talking about how I believe he
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: was saying how they just wanted to have as many
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: children that what they were able to have. So I
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: don't know what their take on birth control was. She
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: came from a profoundly Catholic family, so I don't know exactly,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: but I'm thinking maybe there wasn't any kind it was
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: just you know, that whole concept of like just whatever
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: comes along as far as children, like no birth control,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: no methodology, all natural. However many come so at the
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: time of the murders.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, but that's that's insane. That's just like it
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: should be. How many. I mean, you have to be
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: able to provide sorry, you just.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Have to be okay, But let me ask you a
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: religious question on the LDS church, because obviously a lot
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: of Mormon families have lots of kids, But what is
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: their take on birth control? Is there a stance? No,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: there's not, like I'm aware of you don't know. So
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: it's I mean, so there's the concept of like, have
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: lots of children.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: To like, families are important, right, Families are you know
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: the purpose of why we're here. And you should have children.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: You should you should.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: Be multiply the earth right, isn't there like, and.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: You should have children that you can provide for financially, spiritually,
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: and emotionally. Okay, otherwise you're just creating chaos and you're
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: not bringing them into a So there isn't.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: A concept of like no birth control. And however many
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: children come from that.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: Okay, some people might follow that path, but that's not.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: At the time of the murders, Yates was experiencing religious
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: delusions and believes she was saving her children from eternal damnation.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: These radical beliefs came from a cult like preacher named
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Michael Warnetki Warnecki Warnicki, who who many believed influenced Andrea
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: to commit these atrocities. After the murders, Andrea called nine
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: to one to one and admitted to killing them. Yates
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: was initially convicted of capital murder in two thousand and
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: two and sentenced to life in prison, but the conviction
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: was overturned on appeal due to false testimony, which we'll
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: get into in a minute. In a two thousand and
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: six retrial, she was found not guilty by reason of
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: insanity and committed to a state psychiatric hospital instead of prison.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: She still to this day remains in long term psychiatric care,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: and the case is frequently cited as a landmark example
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: of the dangers of untreated postpartum psychosis and the need
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: for early intervention.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: So she just lives in basically like an adult daycare center.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, I also read because I was
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: researching more about like where she is today and where
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: she's at. Well, she's in a psychiatric facility, but she
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: is able, I believe, on a yearly basis, to come
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: up for some type of review.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: To see if she is still psycho.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Well you know, I don't know what the terms are,
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: but you know, to take some type of review to
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: see if she's able to be released, like released, I.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Would imagine so, or if she should be right right right,
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: because that's the whole point of her being there, some
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: type of care and recovery.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: No, So she comes up for review and I read
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: that she waives it every single time.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, Yeah, she must be happy where she is.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: She's like, I don't want out, Like I have to
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: get a job, right, no, thank you. Yeah, So I'll
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: just stay here. There's plenty of in here. I'll just
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: take out here.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: So the case, like we said before, is revisited in
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: the new HBO Max documentary The Cult Behind the Killer.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: The Andrea Yates Story. Let's just go into a little
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: bit of like their early life. So in July second
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: of sixty four, Andrea was born in Houston, Texas. In
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three, she marries Russell Russy Yates, who is
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: a NASA engineer. The couple are devout Christians, and Russy
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: referred to them as a very traditional family and that
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: they intended to have many children.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: So far, so good.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know they met They lived in the same
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: apartment complex and someone like dinged her car or something,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: and so she and he, I guess always parked his
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: car in that same area. So she went to his
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: apartment and knocked on the door and asked if he
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: saw anything. And I guess she had seen him and
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: thought he was good looking, and it's like, so she
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: made an overt effort to have a conversation with him.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: That's how they met.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: So she seduced him.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: She seduced him. Did you see who dinged my car.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: I'm going to try that. Okay, we're going to try
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: it on my neighbor, all right.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Andrew and Russy have five children between nineteen ninety four
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: and two thousand. Noah Jacob who was born in eighteen
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: ninety four, John Samuel in nineteen ninety five, Paul Abraham
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety seven, Luke David in nineteen ninety nine,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: and then they finally had a girl, Mary Deborah in
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: two thousand. That's a lot of kids. Five kids, and
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: that's a short timeframe to have that ball.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's like five under eight years old. Yeah.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: As Andrea had more children, her mental health declined significantly.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: After the birth of her fourth child, Luke, in nineteen
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: ninety nine, Andrea begins to suffer serious postpartum depression with psychosis. Yes,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: mental health professionals warned that having more children would guarantee
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: future psychotic depression. Despite this, she becomes pregnant again. Okay,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: this is when I don't know. I'm watching Rusty the Husband,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: and there's so much like, I feel so much empathy
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: for this man I'm watching, But.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: I know what you're getting on this war. He likened
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: it too, like Oh, it'll be like the flu. I'll
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: just give her some medication, she'll be fine. Yeah.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: The fact that he even said that, I thought, do
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: you people want to rethink?
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Because she had been through some episodes, she had received
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: medication and it helped improve. I don't know how much,
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: but he says it helped improve. So he thought, oh,
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: we'll just do that again. That's crazy, that is crazy.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: Maybe they did, they not believe in birth control. Maybe
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: that's why he's figuring this's his only chance.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know. That's why I was sleeping with her,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: asking before, Oh, you mean, like to keep pro creating
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: an action.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Is to never sleep with my wife. Oh, He's like,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: I'll just give her meds.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, he says in the documentary that he
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: walked in on her in the bathroom with like a knife,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: you know, and like she had it up to her throat.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: But then they still ended up having more.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: Children, and I mean not only medigation. I know.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: But it's like, on one hand, I feel empathy for him.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, he lost all five children and his wife
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: on one day. I mean, it's tragic, and I don't
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: think that he has I mean, he's he just seems
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: meek or weak to me.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Well, I think I when I saw it, I assumed
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: he thought, okay, she went psycho. Whatever. She had meds,
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: which did I'm sure improve circumstances for her. So he thought, Okay,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: that's it. But it's not always that way. Well, it
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: was very often meds is she continued, The meds will
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: be worse and later there's so many things. He just thought, like, oh, okay,
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: she'll take medication again and be over it.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Well, that's a very simplified thinking. I think that's the problem.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: I think that was it, Yes, But I think that's
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: the problem with men in general sometimes, is that men
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: are so uncomplicated and you're thinking sometimes that He literally
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: equated her postpartum psychosis to the flu. I mean, he
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: says this in the documentary and basically thought, well, if
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: she has another round of it, it's.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: Like the flu leftover medicine, yes.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: And like we'll just give her some medication and like
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: it'll be like a band aid and she'll be fine.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: And clearly you could it's not the flu.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: No.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: So in nineteen ninety nine, after her fourth pregnancy, Andrea
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: experiences a nervous breakdown attempts suicide, and is hospitalized twice.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: She is diagnosed with postpartum psychosis by her psychiatrists. Doctor's
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: caution against further pregnancies due to the risk of relapse. However,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: in March of two thousand Andrea stops taking her antipsychotic
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: medication shortly before the birth of her fifth child.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: If you marry, if you had antipsychotic medication, yeah, I'd
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: be making certain you take it every day.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Well, let me ask your questions.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: For you to do it. Okay, be like, lift up
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: your tongue, see your mouth, Yeah, okay.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: You have five children. Yeah, if I'm on anti psychotic medication,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: would you leave me alone with our children?
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: No? No, I'd probably be alone a lot, not with
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: the kids.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: I'm saying you would be aware that because of my
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: mental health issues and the fact.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: That like, yeah, but I could see yes, I would
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: not right now, as.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Asked, you're saying from your viewpoint right now.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: But if this happened ten years ago and then you
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: start to feel, you know, you have episodes of being normal,
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: feeling normal, feeling better, you might start to slip. I
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: mean he did. It's not like he went out with
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: the guys. He went to work yeah, but yeah, there
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: should have been more care, supervision for the kids and
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: or her right.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: At the end of two thousand Andrea's mental state worsens.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: She's self harms, reads Michael Warrenski's scripture obsessively and neglects Mary,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: who is the newborn. Rusty can attest that she had
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: become increasingly withdrawn at this point. He does talk about
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: her being withdrawn that like she stares off into space
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: a lot, and like walks in the rooms and stares
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: at the walls. See that's I mean to me, that's
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: what's beyond concerning to me. That's like what is going on?
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Like what?
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: And then she's listening to this guy, what's.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: His name, Michael Warrenski, Yeah, or Warren Ecki, Warrenicky, warreni ever.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Whatever his name is. He's brainwashing her. Yeah, he's very.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: These cassettes harshly, the writings that he makes and his pamphlets,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: and he's considered like a street preacher.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: He drives around in a bus and goes to college
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: campuses and street corners. And I mean we've seen people
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: like that.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: You're walking around to college to wonder like who's in
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: the bus? Yeah, how do you punish your kids. What's
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: going on? Right?
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: So you know those cassettes he made and she would
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: listen to them, and you know, they show the other
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: guy and the what was his name? You remember his name?
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: David?
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Was that his name? The other person that they show
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: in the documentary that was a huge follower of Michael Warrensky.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: Guy that was engaged.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think his name was what was his name?
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: I don't remember his name. Yeah.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: I think I thought it was interesting that they showed
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: him as well, because it's nice to have that diversity,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: to show that it wasn't just Andrew and her husband
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Russy that just followed this guy.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But then there was that other other well, he
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: was a young man named Moses.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: Moses, Yeah, well he was related Michael Warrensky was his uncle.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: From a different family that was a follower.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Right, But where you're talking about follower, it was like
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: the one guy. I can't remember his name. I think
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: it was David or something, but he he was such
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: a follower. He was actually he was a very intelligent.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Remember how he talked about.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: He was it was the first one.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Finish finish college and he's very proud of right, and
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: he got a good job and made decent money.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Loved him and he loved her and she was wonderful, right,
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: and they got engaged. Yeah, and then he tells him
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: that he's engaged, as like, you're not ready to be engaged.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Well, he tells Michael Warrenisky, the guy he follows, that
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: he's engaged and that he Well, first he tells him
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: that he has a job, and he's like telling him
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: and all these pamphlets and all his writings and his
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: cassettes that like, you shouldn't work. I don't understand that.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: Something I don't know, but like God will provide, like
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: you're supposed to manifest like your own thing by just
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: being a follower of Jesus.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: And yeah, you have to have to take act.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: But here's the thing that doesn't make sense, because Michael
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: was always asking that guy for money, but he was
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: also telling him not to work. So I don't understand that.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: I don't get that.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: But so he also tells him, you shouldn't be engaged.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: You don't need to be married like women. You know,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: He canceled his engagement.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: So he cancels his engagement to this woman that he's
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: in love with.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: Who he says was the great woman claimed as because
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: he wasn't spiritually ready because that's what he was told, right.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: And then over the course of time he sends grand is.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: Like break up your marriage and send me some money.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: That is the ultimate ability to just control people. And
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: again because we talked about this with Jody Hildebrant, where
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: I was saying, I don't understand how people have so
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: much power.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: A m is there's no conscience, so you just keep
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: doing it and you're in people's face all the time,
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: pounding it in to their brain.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: But I think you also have to have a certain
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: type of person that's susceptible to that.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: And I think it's why, Yeah, that's why it's following
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: was small, Yeah, because it's.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Like Jody Hildebrant. You could tell that she was easily
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: able to manipulate and control people because she was getting
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: people at their absolute worst. You know, they were having
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: terrible trouble in their marriages, so they were at a
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: very low point, and then she was able to easily manipulate.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: And it's also the isolation part, you know, it's the
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: manipulation and the isolation, and it's dangerous, right, And I
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: think that was like a lot of his his This
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Michael Warrensky guy too. It's you know, you.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Don't thoughts, you don't want to have a job. Your
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: thoughts can be very dangerous. And if you're alone with
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: your thoughts, and you know they basically he's basically planted
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: in her head. You know, children are sinful, they're evil,
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: going to go to hell. Well, yeah, I think there
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: listening and listening and listening over and over and over
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: and the cassette tapes and staring off into space thinking
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: of her thoughts very dangerous.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: So March twelfth of two thousand and one, Andrea's father dies,
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: which is a major personal loss that even worsens her condition.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: A controversial preacher, Michael Warrenski, that's who we've been talking about,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: held influence over the couple. Rusty had met Warrenski in
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: college where he was street preaching, and the Yeates family
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: later bought a converted bus from him. Warren Eki's teachings
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: about sin, motherhood, and salvation, especially regarding women and children,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: may have interacted with Andrea's psychosis. I mean clearly she's
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: like reading his pamphlets and listening to his cassettes, and
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: you know, she was reading the pamphlets and listening to
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: his teachings on the day that she drowned her children,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: so that's the last thing that's in her mind. And
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: he was very clear about saying that all children are evil.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't get that part.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: So these teachings claim children were destined for heaven before
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: the age of twelve years old, while they were still pure,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: but after the age of twelve they'd likely be sent
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: to hell. And we know all of her children were
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: eight and under. And if you're listening to that over
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: and over that children are going to go to hell,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: But well, she thinks she saved them from damn rest. Right.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: So Michael Warnisky, he has his own website. But let's
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: just read like a small snippet that he wrote and
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: put on his website that it has to do with
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: you know, because this new documentary is out and he's
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: the main focus of it today. Yeah, well this is recent.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: He just put this out. So this is his website.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Here are the details of Andrew Yates case to anyone
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: who is interested. About forty five years ago, I met
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: a young man named Russy Yates on a university who
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: expressed interest in wanting to follow Jesus. We exchanged a
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: few letters back and forth over several years, as I
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: did with a few dozen other students across the country.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Long story short, he got married and started a family.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: We had sparse contact over about a decade and a
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: half and met them a few times at a public
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: place where we came through their area, usually a restaurant,
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: restaurant or a picnic area at a park. He indicated
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: that he wanted to raise his children to love the Lord,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: travel and have a family as I did. He wanted
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: to buy an RV I was selling. I told him
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: clearly not to buy it and that that lifestyle was.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: Not for him.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: I don't believe that for one second. He was like,
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: don't buy this RV that I have for sale.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: No, send me money right by the V.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: But he insisted he wanted it and said it was
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: bigger and better than the trailer he had. I cautioned
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: him that this is not an easy undertaking and told
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: him not to try to tape my life. Yep, don't
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: try to imitate. Don't try to take my place, buddy.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Anytime he talked about this, I clearly discouraged it. He
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: had an intense job at NASA, which consumed his life.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: He obviously had a track record of not listening to others, doctors, counselor's, hospital, psychiatrists,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: and me, who all warned him and instead insisted on
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: his own way. I told him to love his family,
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: to take care of his wife and children.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: We saw it the documentary that the kids had to
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: say about him, as I did my own.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: We fell out of touch for a long time and
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: had no further contact.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: He left the part out where he beats children.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you did leave it.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: Oh, yes, he did the sticks right, the wooden paddles.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he left that part.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: He forgets that part right.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: He also left out the part about how he and
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: his teachings and doctrines. He talks about how all children
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: are going to go to hell and yeah. So also,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: Michael Warnecki's wife, Rachel, was in contact with Andrea. She
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: was did you see she was also like off the wall,
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: this is his wife, Michael's wife Andrea or no, Rachel,
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Her name is Rachel and it shows like
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: this family home video of them with their six kids,
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: and she was talking about how she wears a pen
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: that says like I submit to my husband or something,
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: and she's like so proud to wear it around.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: I really, Shane, where can I get a pin?
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: No on his website?
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: Probably, but I don't want to support him.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: She wrote to Andrea, quote, Jesus knows how weak you are,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: how weak and vulnerable. I know you're frustrated, Andrea. You're
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: accountable for these children. You can change them. There would
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: be a day when it's too late. Don't look to Rusty,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: look to Jesus. If you allow Satan to come in
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: and still be understanding, the consequences will be tragic. So
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, not only is this the warnicky guy exhibiting
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: such influence over her, but his wife's a whack job too.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: So on the morning of June twentieth, two thousand and one,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: after Rusty leaves for work, Andrea rounds all five of
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: her children Noah was seven, John was five, Paul was three,
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: Luke was to and Mary was six months old in
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: the bathtub of their Clear Lake, Texas home. She then
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: places the bodies of the four oldest children on the
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: bed and leaves Mary in the bathtub. She calls nine
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: to one one, repeatedly stating, well, first, I read I
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: heard some of the nine one calls. When she first calls,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: she just says, I need a police and the woman's like,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: well what four Like what's going on? And she's like,
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: I just need a police officer. She also called her
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: husband and told him to come home.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: So so didn't she call him and say it's done
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: or it's time?
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: I think so something like that.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Also, and this is like the oldest son saw her
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: drowning the kids in the bathtub and was like trying
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: to run and get away from her, and so she
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: had to like really struggle with him. I mean I
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: think he was eight at the time, so I mean
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: he's big and able to like try to get away.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: So Andrea was arrested the same day in charge with
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: five counts of capital murder under Texas law. In Texas,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: killing more than one person in the same criminal episode
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: qualifies as capital murder. That's what we were talking about
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: with Judge Liz. When you it escalates to capital murder
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: because there's enhancements. So the fact that she killed five
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: people at one time making her eligible for the death penalty.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: So she goes to trial in two thousand and two.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: The two thousand and two trials centered on whether Yates
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: knew her actions were wrong at the time of the killings,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: or was she so mentally ill that she could not
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: distinguish right from wrong. Because obviously, to be convicted of
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: capital murder you have to have the intent.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I mean, at the day, five kids
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: are dead and she did it with her own hands. Yeah,
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: I mean to me, I know I sound and unsympathetic,
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: but it's like, lock her up, regardless, call it what
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: you want. She's not safe, right, people aren't safe with
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: her out there. Put her away.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: So the prosecution argued that, So they're arguing for capital
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: punish meant right that the death penalty. So they have
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: to provide evidence that says that she knew what she
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: was doing and that she knew what she was doing
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: was wrong. So the fact that she planned the killings,
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: the fact that see.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: That's the thing she did know she wasn't didn't she
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: kill them for the purpose of trying to save them,
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: so she knew she was ending their whole life.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Well, I think that's implied. I mean, I don't think
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: she ever came forward and said the reason I did
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: it is because I listened to this and I felt
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: like I.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Was saving that killed and lock them up.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: So the prosecution argues that it's capital murder because not
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: only did she plan the killings, because she locked the
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: door behind her when she was when she was, you know,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: with the kids in the bathtub, she called the police. Afterward,
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: she called her husband. She understood wrongdoing because she waited
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: until her husband left and called nine one one. Her
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: actions showed a methodical behavior, not insanity. But you know,
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: the whole insanity thing is you have to be insane
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: to kill your five children.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's right, or is it not saying
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: legally insane? It's a different standard, right, I'm just saying,
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: there's no question about that.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: Gave birth to five children, and then you drown them
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: all in the bathtub, one at a time, and then
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: laid them on a bed and called you're insane.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: Right, so lock them up.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: The defense argued that Yates suffered from severe postpartum psychosis,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: her actions were driven by delusions, not rational thought, and
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: she believed killing her children was morally right and necessary
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: to save them from hell. All right, during this first trial,
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: because this first trial gets overturned, so she's convicted of
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: capital murder and then it ends up being overturned. She
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: has a second trial.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: The prosecutions well, just be clear. So she had a
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: trial in two thousand and two, found guilty, yes, life sentences.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: Right then later it was overturned because there was a
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: mistrial because of some evidence.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: That was of some expert testimony. So the prosecution's case
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: relied heavily on psychiatrists doctor Park Deetz, who is a
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: national known forensic expert, and this is the only expert
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: that testified on behalf of the prosecution. As far as
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: her mental state, this is the first trial in two
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: thousand and two. Order, yeah, so that didn't exist. So
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: Deeps testified, right. Deets testified that Andrea Yates may have
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: been influenced by a Law and Order episode in which
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: a mother killed her children and was acquitted by reason
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: of insanity. The testimony suggested premeditation and legal awareness. So
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: his testimony held a lot of weight because what he
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: was saying was there was this episode of Law and
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Order where this mother killed her kids in the bathtub,
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: and Andrea probably watched it and then copied it. And
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: then the prosecution used that testimony to connect the dots
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: at the.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: End, which episode existed right in that scenario?
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: Right, So the prosecution relies on this, this testimony, that's.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: This is an expert saying, oh, there's a TV show
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: out there, maybe she saw it. I think he worked.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: I think he worked on Law and Order. That doesn't
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: make it an I'm not saying it's in a better
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying he was closely. I think he was
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: a consultant or something.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: I worked in the law. Even if that was the case,
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: even if in a Law and Order episode existed, as
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: he says, I don't understand. The thinking is like she
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: might have saw this, might have copied it, because.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Then it's not insanity. This is the prosecution. This is
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: there argument.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: Such a far fetched, stupid thing to say there's an
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: episode out there. Isn't Lawn Order been on. They probably
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: have thousands of episodes, And he's saying she might have
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: seen it.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: Well, they're saying that if that exists and she copied it,
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: then it's not an insanity defense. It's a I watched
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: this and I was influenced by it, and I did
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: the same thing. I mean, the prosecution is trying to
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: connect the dots. Is that she has expert, that she
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: has the mental awareness to know that she saw something
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: and that she's mimicking it and it's not.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: But I get I get the thinking, but it's what
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: kind of expert is this is randomly hyped some episode
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: that she might have watched. Well, I'm sure he didn't
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: even exist.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: I know it didn't exist, but I'm sure at the time, well, he.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: That logic is there is probably a Law and Order
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: episode out there for every type of side, and everyone's
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: going to go up there and be like, oh, they
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: might have a watch this Law and Order episode. It's
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: into syndication. And then he just copied it, so put
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: him in a resort.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: The verdict and sentences came out in March of two
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: thousand and two. The jury rejected the insanity defense and
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: Yates was convicted of capital murder. She was sentenced to
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: life in prison with parole eligible after forty years. After
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: the conviction, it was discovered that the Law and Order
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: episode described by doctor Deets did not exist, so the
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: jury heard false, highly prejudicial evidence during a capital murder trial.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: In two thousand and five, the Texas Court of Appeals
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: overturned yates conviction and the court ruled that the false
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: testimony may have influenced the jury's decision and denied Yates as.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: This episode, Well, I feel like, what episode is it?
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: What happened in the episode? Well? What season?
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: What's what I'm saying? I feel like, if that was
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: such a pivotal or profound chunk of testimony that was
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: influential social why did they not show the episode or
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: discuss it? Why was it not entered as evidence show
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: episode document the jury. I don't understand why the defense
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: didn't object and say, like, I don't understand why there
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: was an evidence put forward that showed the episode. The
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: jury should have seen it.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: It was substantial enough that it caused the mistrial, Yeah, right, right,
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: then why didn't they question it? And if they didn't
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: question it, then was it substantial enough.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: It's very interesting, but she goes back to trial, so
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: she has a retrial. In two thousand and six, the
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: defense presented extensive medical records documenting her multiple psychiatric hospitalizations,
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: suicide attempts, diagnosis of postpartum psychosis, and also the doctor's
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: warnings against further pregnancies. The prosecution's own experts acknowledged the
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: severity of her psychosis. So then this retrial in two
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: thousand and six, the jury concluded that Yates did not
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: know her actions were wrong at the time due to
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: her psychotic delusions, and she met Texas's legal standard for insanity.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: So on July twenty six of two thousand and six,
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Andrea Yates was found not guilty by reason of insanity,
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: and she was automatically committed to a secure state psychiatric hospital,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: where she still remains today. So Andrea has been housed
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: in psychiatric facilities in Texas since two thousand and seven,
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: where she continues to receive treatment. I also thought this
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: was interesting. Rusty her ex husband. They ended up getting divorced.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: He ended up getting remarried and had one more child.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: He had a son, and then he's divorced from her too.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: He still visits Andrea every year in prison, and I
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: thought that was interesting. I don't know, do you have
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: a perspective on that from a male father point of view.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's wrong, but it's kind of weird.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: Does he visit his ex wife other ex wife?
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know about his other ex wife, I don't know.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: And then I read because he talked about it. He
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: said he visits her once a year in the facility,
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: and that they reminisce about their time together and that
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: she watches home videos of the kids all the time.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: And I thought it was interesting he said that she's
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: mentally stuck in that time period of her life. She's like,
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: she's never she's never progressed, she's never I'm sure she's
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: never mature.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: You know, when when when someone goes on hard street
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: drugs and then they you know, they live a tragic lifestyle,
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: then usually you're saying it's it's not that's not who
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: they are, it's the drug. Maybe he's thinking, like, I
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: have memories of her when she was normal, when she
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: was pleasant, when she was loving and kind and a
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: great mother and all that, and maybe he's knowing that
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: that's who she is. Something happened where obviously she you know,
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: had a mental breakdown psychos disorder, And maybe he's at
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: fault too because he pushed he had her have another kid.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: Well, he didn't prevent it.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: He didn't stop it. Yeah, he slept with her. So
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: maybe he's he knows that of her, and that's he
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: feels a little bit of some sympathy to visit her
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: and just kind of check in with her, knowing that, yeah,
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: she's struggling and she's suffering herself. Yeah, as opposed to
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: she's a psycho killer and just wants to cause harm
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: and was always horrific. You know.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he did say. I thought it was interesting that
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: he said she's the only other person that he can
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: reminisce with about the children and that time period.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: And maybe that's maybe it's more for him than for her. Yeah,
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: And he said, but I can tell you I killed
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: our kids. I would not visit you once a year.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: No, No, well I can't even like I would kill myself.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean I don't mean to make light of it,
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: but no, I don't know how he does it, but
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: maybe he is a better man for doing that, and
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: he sees something different that we don't see.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And like I was saying, I think he said
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: that there were a lot of you know, can you imagine,
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, they had five kids. There were a lot
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: of home videos that showed them at home with these
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: five kids and writing by.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: It a lot of life yeah at that time, and
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: they spend time on the bus. I mean they were
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: a unit. Yeah.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: So you know, I think for him, maybe that's the
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: way he relives that time period too, with those children
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: is when he visits her and they can reminisce about
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: that time period. Maybe it gives them some solace or
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: some way of feeling like he connects with them or
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: can revisit them in some way. And clearly he's forgiven
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: her in some well, we don't have aspectect in.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: Some aspect right.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: Her attorney says that she grieves her children daily, engages
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: in activities like crafts, and is doing remarkably well within
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: the structured environment. Her case is prompted ongoing public discussion
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: about postpartum mental illness, the need for better care, and
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: the impact of untreated psychosis.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: Someone like that, I can't imagine because it's been what
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: twenty some years now, right, I mean, is she ever
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: gonna change? She's probably always going to be struggling no
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: mentally and emotionally, and she's probably gonna be in there
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: the rest of her life.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: Probably, And you know, I actually find it, I don't
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: know what the word is. Maybe what am I trying
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: to say, Like the fact that the fact that she
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: waives her right to have like a review.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: She might know that she needs to light there.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe you know, that's her way of punishing herself.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: Can you know what I mean of just I mean
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: she's in her own personal hell, because I read that
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: she just spends all day talking about her kids and
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: watching home videos of her kids, and she hasn't progressed
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: beyond that, he says when he visits her, like she's
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: stuck in that time period. It's not like she's mentally
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: grown or gotten an education or challenge herself in any way.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: Like she's clearly stuck in that time period, and that's she'll.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: Never get out of it. So that's probably cyclical the
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: way she's just staring at the videos and stuff.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: Right, So anyway, that's a tragic, tragic case.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: Boh, that's perfect. Yeah.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: I think it's also important to talk about postpartum, you know.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: I think also you know, back then.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: I never knew of this postpartum with like something like this,
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: so I always associate with depression, right and in different degrees,
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: but depression. Yeah, so this is scary.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: Right, So anyway, thank you guys for listening. Also, you
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: can always find please follow us on wherever you listen
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: to your podcast. You can just search for Legally Brunette
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: and if you have any ideas or recommendations of cases
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: that you would like us talk about, you can always
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: DM me. You guys do that and I appreciate it.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: I've gotten a lot of good leads from people just
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: telling me about cases that they find interesting. So I
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: appreciate your feedback and also any other feedback that you
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: have a lot of times you just tell me you
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: picked something out of the episode that resonated with you,
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: and I love to you know.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: There's something we might have overlooked, right right.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: A lot of people know things because they lived in
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: that area or know someone. Yeah, So I always appreciate
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: I get a lot of dms that are you know,
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: a lot of people are personally connected to some of
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: these stories, and it's always interesting to hear that. So
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: thank you guys for your feedback. We appreciate it, and
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for listening.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: Thank you