Latest / Authentic Living / Jan and Jillian on being identical twins in psychology, workplace conflict, and their book 'The Boundary Badas'

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Jan and Jillian on being identical twins in psychology, workplace conflict, and their book 'The Boundary Badas' · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have conscious conversations
• 0:08
  about things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:11
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Durgesh.
• 0:38
  Everyone, it's Roxanne Durgesh.
• 0:39
  Welcome again to Authentic Living with Roxanne.
• 0:43
  I would say that conflict is something that most of us explore whether we want to or not
• 0:48
  daily as we get into our days.
• 0:51
  So today, I have 2 lovely young women, Jan and Jimmy and Uhas.
• 0:56
  And their background is kind of similar to mine, just what a bit different.
• 1:00
  Both with graduate degrees in psychology, And they have created a couple of companies that
• 1:07
  kind of provasively speak about relationships.
• 1:09
  But today, we're gonna talk about one of their particular specialties, which is around a
• 1:15
  conflict resolution, how that impacts us in the workplace, kind of what are the do's and don'ts
• 1:20
  of things that we need to know about conflict?
• 1:23
  I don't know about you both, but I know I'm always learning every single day.
• 1:27
  So welcome welcome to
• 1:28
  the podcast.
• 1:29
  Thanks for having us.
• 1:31
  And for those of you who can see see them, they are identical twins.
• 1:36
  And the only thing that's helping little old Roxanne out here is the difference in color of
• 1:41
  a jean jacket and a peach top, but just for anybody that can see the video and for others,
• 1:46
  there are you are identical, right, completely identical?
• 1:49
  Correct.
• 1:49
  Yes.
• 1:49
  Yes.
• 1:50
  We are.
• 1:50
  Even though we I think as we've aged in life, we have slight differences, but as babies, yes,
• 1:55
  it was impossible to tell us apart.
• 1:58
  So tell me, okay, let's talk a little bit about you before we get into kind of conflict and
• 2:04
  your twins.
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  Right?
• 2:07
  Tell me about what that's like to grow up with a twin and how did conflict kind of not show
• 2:12
  itself or show itself early with you, a sister
• 2:16
  So, yes, we definitely have our sisterly moments even though and we might have different
• 2:22
  approaches to life, but normally, we have the same in goal, but I'm a big picture thinker,
• 2:28
  and she's a more detailed thinker.
• 2:30
  And so sometimes we can not understand each other or hit a gridlock because we're
• 2:37
  approaching it or seeing it from different angles.
• 2:40
  So, yes, we do have times where we do have struggles being sisters and we work together as
• 2:46
  well.
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  So there's lots of different dynamics playing out But I think to being twins, a lot of times
• 2:53
  when you are, you know, have this business partnership, you are you have to consult with
• 2:58
  the other person.
• 2:58
  So you're always trying to consider this, like, we mindset.
• 3:02
  How can we work on this or what do we need to do versus you do this or all do this.
• 3:07
  Like, we try to get out of that you versus a me perspective and focus on that we.
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  And I think being twins, it's so much natural to always consider each other before just
• 3:16
  making a decision.
• 3:18
  Yeah.
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  We've always threw out childhood.
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  Maybe this is an impact from our parental, you know, childhood upbringing on our parents is
• 3:25
  that we've always considered the other person before making a decision that might impact
• 3:29
  either one of us.
• 3:30
  And I guess you can get it on both ends.
• 3:32
  Right?
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  You either have twins that wanna be identified and collectively been parented to keep each
• 3:38
  other's perspective where you have other twins and say I wanna be separate to kind of my
• 3:43
  explicit identity, but clearly you both ended up in the field of psychology.
• 3:49
  And did you go to the same universities?
• 3:52
  Yes.
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  We have the same background education and everything.
• 3:57
  Excellent.
• 3:57
  So tell me a little bit about any other siblings other than both
• 4:01
  of you?
• 4:02
  Yes.
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  We have 2 younger siblings.
• 4:05
  And but we're all very closely tightly knit.
• 4:09
  I think, you know, family values something that was always very much instilled at us at a early
• 4:14
  age.
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  And, you know, family always comes first for most of us.
• 4:19
  I would say in terms of that, and you're always considering, you know, how you do impact the
• 4:23
  other person, but always being kind to one another is, I think, is key too when you are
• 4:28
  communicating
• 4:29
  So the values around thinking of the other person trying to come, like, to set, like, a
• 4:34
  weak consensus versus that I am of course, individually, you're you have your own
• 4:39
  identities.
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  Like, we you said, my you know, one person's microscopic, one person's macro and kinda can
• 4:45
  see the That's actually a pretty good synergy between both of you.
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  What I'm curious about is you grow up.
• 4:53
  You you know, you decide you're both going into psychology.
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  You both kind of take the same kind of paths.
• 4:59
  You know, you're was there ever a time that you both kinda got into a complex situation that
• 5:05
  you really had to use the skills that you know of and are obviously quite, educated in where
• 5:12
  you had to apply it in a way that you thought, wow, I think this is taking us to the task as 2
• 5:18
  business owners, 2 females, twins, any share with us that might help us understand you a bit
• 5:25
  better.
• 5:27
  Yeah.
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  I think can we actually use our skills on a daily basis believe it or not when it comes to
• 5:32
  operating business and communicating with each other and striving towards our goals?
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  We have to have boundaries within our different companies we operate in terms of keeping
• 5:43
  everything very organized, what tasks need to be done, and whatnot.
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  So we're kind of constantly using our skills, I would say, on a daily basis.
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  I think too when it comes to, like, our professional lives and our personal lives,
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  like, Once business is over, it's like respecting that, you know, we each have our own
• 5:59
  personal lives outside of our work relationship and knowing that, you know, work does to stop
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  at some point in time, especially if the other person does have some, you know, personal
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  things that they're doing within their own lifestyle with friends or family.
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  So I think knowing how to balance that and respect each other's personal lives outside of
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  the work relationship is very much key.
• 6:22
  So let's let's jump right into conflict.
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  Right?
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  And, obviously, like you said, there's you have 3 companies, and the company that you work with
• 6:30
  is 28 consulting is the one that does the the conflict resolution.
• 6:35
  Let's talk a little bit about in the workplace what are some of the core things that you see
• 6:40
  out there that a lot of workplaces, not all of them, but the ones that you work with or
• 6:45
  struggle with it when reference to conflict management.
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  So a lot of problems we see is that people feel either understood or undervalued within their
• 6:55
  role within a company, I think was is a big one.
• 6:59
  And, also, not feeling respected either by their colleagues or even by upper management.
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  And usually when that's occurring, it's because we have unresolved childhood wounds that are
• 7:12
  playing out within our professional relationships.
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  And I think too, a lot of companies will focus on productivity and performance versus, like,
• 7:19
  How can we work better together to increase that?
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  Like, we're they're missing the relationship component, which requires conflict resolution
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  when you have teams who are working together to grow or scale.
• 7:31
  So let's say we have a company that really hasn't fore focused on EQ, which is the
• 7:37
  emotional intelligence of what is necessary.
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  Like you said, the core fundamentals like trust and transparency, all that stuff that we know
• 7:45
  very very well.
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  What are some of the basic things that how do you approach these companies with a plan about
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  addressing some of these concerns?
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  I think it's about figuring out what are their growth goals that and, you know, that they're
• 7:59
  wanting to strive towards, whether the biggest, like, sore spots, like, what's creating some of
• 8:04
  the conflict, their shortcomings.
• 8:06
  And so we look at trying to identify what are the three problems that they're experiencing
• 8:11
  what are the 3 goals that they're hoping to achieve and then create a strategy plan around
• 8:16
  those things and really customize to their company organization or their teams that we're
• 8:21
  working with.
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  And sometimes it might be working with, you know, particular individual on a team or it
• 8:26
  might be working with the entire team and then bringing people together.
• 8:30
  We've also worked where, you know, we worked with employees and then we worked with the
• 8:34
  executives and then bridging the gap between those 2 different components selected groups
• 8:38
  within the company too.
• 8:40
  So it really just depends specifically on when the company is facing challenges around, and
• 8:45
  then we, you know, create a custom plan.
• 8:48
  So you meet the company, really, where they're at based on the strategic plan and what their
• 8:52
  main pain points are.
• 8:54
  So, like, what is the objective if it's doubling revenue or maybe employee engagement
• 8:59
  or whatever whatever you're finding out with your assessments coming in.
• 9:03
  Now let's talk a little bit about basic fundamental skills for conflict management.
• 9:08
  Right?
• 9:09
  What are some of the the things that you think people should kinda know?
• 9:12
  Like, it's like some basic basic that you think, oh my goodness.
• 9:16
  They're not They should be doing these.
• 9:17
  What are some of the basic things that people need to, understand about conflict management?
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  I think one of the biggest things People need to understand when it comes to conflict
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  management is to assess the situation rather than assume that you understand where the other
• 9:33
  person is coming from because a lot of times misunderstandings occur when somebody's
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  assuming what the other person is saying based on their own perception or belief system yet
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  they might create a greater misunderstanding or disconnecting the relationship by making that
• 9:47
  assumption because they failed to assess where the other person is coming from.
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  And we do that through discovery questions.
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  They're open ended questions that allow us to further gain insight into the disconnect or the
• 10:00
  problem that is occurring.
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  I think the biggest thing too is not using why questions because that could put people on the
• 10:06
  defensive side.
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  So we always wanna say how come or help me under seeing, can you share more?
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  And this allows for a constructive conversation to occur.
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  In that way, you're trying to get clarity as well.
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  Now process, but the person's less likely to be defensive when you're trying to gain further
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  insight.
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  So whatever it takes to kind of we know this term, people may be, you know, listening, maybe
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  going, what's an open ended question, which is the, you know, the who, what, when, and why, or
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  tell me more or help me understand or I don't get your perspective, which is some of the
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  things that we naturally would use obviously with our psychological backgrounds, but the why
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  kind of questions shut people down, which is a very closed off kind of question.
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  So anything like something like as simple as, well, that's interesting.
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  Could get people to share a little bit more.
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  But I think fundamentally what you're saying is when you have 2 parties, it's kinda not we're
• 10:59
  vetted in our own reality to your point.
• 11:01
  And the other person is vetted in our own reality, but it's oftentimes the bridge.
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  And I I often see it's like a figure 8.
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  It's a cross section about whatever is being delivered to the other person.
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  It's somewhere in the middle of that, figure 8 things lost with with some of the personalities
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  that you find most difficult.
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  Let's see.
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  If we can pick on a personality now that we wanna pick on anybody's personalities, but what
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  kind of sometimes are the more difficult, scenarios or personalities to deal with in
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  conflict that you, you know, you found in in your business?
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  It's usually those who are operating from their ego in emotion based way of thinking because
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  our emotion if we're operating from our ego, we're in a place of emotion and we're highly
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  reactive, and we're focusing on controlling the outcome.
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  Rather than operating from a heart centered place and operating from our values would be
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  more of a growth mindset rather than a fixed mindset.
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  I think it's also people too who might communicate with either aggression or
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  manipulation tactics, you know, in terms of trying to gain power and control versus trying
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  to be a leader and say, hey.
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  Like, let's talk about this together.
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  How can we get past where we're currently at?
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  You know, in this in past, like, how can we get to the next steps?
• 12:19
  And so I think each person really needs to have a voice in that process, but the people who
• 12:24
  have these very strong personalities.
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  They don't allow other people to be heard and understood.
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  They're not allowed to voice their value or have ins input into how you're going to get to
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  the point because they're all about like she said control.
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  So let's say it's a leader, and I've got an ego problem.
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  And there's conflict on my team, and I'm gonna gently tread with me, hopefully.
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  How do you how do you kinda let me know that I'm the issue without toppling the entire
• 12:55
  grocery cart
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  over?
• 12:57
  Yeah.
• 12:58
  So we would never directly come at somebody, but we would help them understand their
• 13:03
  perspective and validate where they're coming from, but then also say, well, have you
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  considered this perspective as well?
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  What do you think this person also, their perspective brings to the table?
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  Maybe how do How does that perspective also add value to the resolution that we need to
• 13:17
  achieve?
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  And then we can help them indirectly bridge the gap by validating their perspective, but also
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  finding that middle ground.
• 13:28
  That's a nice way.
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  Right?
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  Because I think we all I often use the example of, we all have a, our special hue of a a pink
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  lens that we wear we wear and how we look at the world.
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  And sometimes when we might know we need to make a shift, it's the diplomacy with which we
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  get approached.
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  That would, you know, give us, you know, okay, well, maybe I need to change that behavior.
• 13:50
  I don't like the thought of it, but it's it's it's all in the approach.
• 13:55
  Now you You talked a little bit about wounds that I don't think we oftentimes get people to
• 14:00
  share that they do.
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  We bring the ourselves, our wounds, our childhood trauma, all those things to the fore.
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  We bring it forward with us.
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  How is it that you find that that plays out in conflict?
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  So a lot of times when you have an egocentric personality, usually it's because they have
• 14:17
  unresolved childhood wounds.
• 14:19
  There's insecurities or in emotionally underdeveloped from their childhood, and they
• 14:23
  weren't hurt or understood.
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  So this is why it's really important to hear their perspective and validate it because
• 14:28
  that's not something they really experienced growing up.
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  And they really just want to be heard or understood, but they've developed coping skills
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  and how they're going about it to exert control.
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  But when we hear them and help them understand them and help them self reflect they can get
• 14:46
  their goal and still be heard and understood, then we open a whole new, you know, universe of
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  how we can actually see things, and they can still get their needs met at the end of the
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  day.
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  A lot of times, they also develop procrastination, perfectionism, which are all
• 15:05
  maladaptive coping skills that play out in the workforce as well.
• 15:08
  Yeah.
• 15:09
  I don't think they realize sometimes that they're projecting their own shortcomings onto
• 15:14
  the relationship because they're very much in that mean mindset, but whenever we're trying to
• 15:20
  resolve conflict, there's usually 2 or more people involved, and that requires that we
• 15:25
  mindset like we've talked about.
• 15:26
  And so We have to remember that, like, we have to be open minded and hear everyone's thought
• 15:32
  process and but also be willing to, you know, add value and be in a way that shows respect
• 15:40
  for other people involved.
• 15:43
  Now you both written a beautiful book, and I love the title by the way.
• 15:47
  It's called The Boundary Badas.
• 15:49
  And I would love for you to share a little bit about what it's about and how would some of
• 15:54
  these concepts apply in your book or some things that are you've covered in the book that
• 15:58
  maybe we haven't
• 15:59
  talked about.
• 16:00
  Yeah.
• 16:01
  So the first ten chapters is all about sort of that personal professional development,
• 16:05
  understanding yourself.
• 16:07
  Because if we don't understand the relationship with ourselves, it's going to be very
• 16:11
  challenging to have, you know, healthy relationships in our personal professional
• 16:15
  lives.
• 16:15
  And so learning to understand how to operate from your value system, is going to be key
• 16:21
  because when you're aligned and connected to yourself, it's going to be much easier to
• 16:25
  address conflict with others.
• 16:27
  And so and then once chapters, you know, 10 through 28, you will be able to each chapter is
• 16:33
  dedicated to a different type of boundary that you would maybe want to utilize in your life,
• 16:38
  and it tells you actually how to communicate and go through that process if your face was
• 16:43
  such challenges with other people.
• 16:45
  And so the whole goal is to elevate your value, but then also promote growth in the
• 16:49
  relationship.
• 16:50
  So and make it very simple and easy, so it doesn't feel so complex where you want to go
• 16:55
  into that trauma response and go into fight mode or freeze mode or you know, even Paul, I
• 17:01
  mean, you know, people please and try to save the relationship.
• 17:04
  So it really helps people break those old patterns and cycles so that way they can honor
• 17:08
  their authentic voice.
• 17:11
  Sounds amazing.
• 17:12
  It sounds a lot of in alignment with a lot of the work that I did with my first book, which
• 17:16
  is really having people drop down into you know, the who, what, when, and why, which we
• 17:20
  know these things, very, very well.
• 17:22
  And then ultimately, when we have those things figured out in awareness, then we're able to
• 17:27
  kind of project out to the world, what we want in our world, and what we don't want want in
• 17:32
  our world.
• 17:33
  Now when you are working with, let's say, a CEO and compare it to see a frontline person.
• 17:41
  What it, you know, how is how is your language How is your approach different depending on on
• 17:48
  whether it's the kind of the upper C suite versus the frontline employee?
• 17:53
  So the language and the skills are pretty much gonna be the same across the board because
• 17:57
  we're really teaching communication skills, leadership, growth mindset, And with the CEO,
• 18:04
  we might be focusing on company values and what the values they wanna operate by within that
• 18:08
  company that becomes the more or less the foundation of the integrity and reputation of
• 18:14
  that company where an individual, we might focus on their professional values with in how
• 18:19
  they operate within their colleagues or team members.
• 18:22
  So that would be a one of the differences, but really we're focusing on the same overall
• 18:28
  elevation of the company and our own personal value within the company.
• 18:33
  Yeah.
• 18:33
  I think you're just focusing probably on bigger complex problems too.
• 18:37
  In terms of how the company operates and what their overall goals are in terms of the the
• 18:42
  company versus an individual, like, such as an executive or employee a company who might have
• 18:46
  more of a personalized approach to what they want to improve on.
• 18:51
  But the company we're looking at the entire picture.
• 18:54
  Yeah.
• 18:54
  The whole collective.
• 18:57
  So let's say there's a, you know, a CEO listening and he or she is saying, you know
• 19:02
  what?
• 19:02
  We have some problems.
• 19:05
  What's you know, maybe they have some incidental app more incidental absences.
• 19:09
  They have maybe a bit more short term.
• 19:11
  Maybe they're maybe they're unionized.
• 19:13
  They have arbitrations, and they're not hitting in the mark to your point.
• 19:17
  Right?
• 19:17
  Like, they're You know, they're doing well.
• 19:19
  They're a good company, but I'm looking at the data.
• 19:22
  I'm thinking, yeah, there's some things that need to be shifted.
• 19:26
  What what what couple of things could you steps would you might suggest that that's, CEO takes
• 19:33
  to to to address the concern or of conflict in his or her workplace?
• 19:38
  So we have, like, a high turnover rate or, like, we have financial problems, and the
• 19:44
  company is not in at the level it should be.
• 19:47
  Usually, there's a lack of company policies in place that are really able to create an
• 19:52
  infrastructure that creates clarity and transparency in regards to roles and also in
• 19:58
  regards to respect within the company foundations So we really wanna focus on
• 20:04
  creating that fur like, foundation and infrastructure of policies and boundaries
• 20:08
  within the company that allow clarity and transparency of how who's responsible for what
• 20:15
  and how and we're getting there in order to reach the goals.
• 20:18
  Also, too, I'd wanna assess what have they previously already tried in regards to trying
• 20:23
  to resolve these internal problems and what's worked or hasn't worked.
• 20:27
  And what is it costing the company nat what is it costing the company today by not taking
• 20:32
  action or trying something new that could actually help resolve this and how long has
• 20:37
  this, you know, problem existed too.
• 20:39
  So just really trying to explore more about each problem in what they've already tried or
• 20:46
  what's not working and figure out where to go from there too.
• 20:48
  Because if you don't assess what they've already tried or worked through, then you also
• 20:53
  could be doing something or suggesting something that may not benefit them as well.
• 20:59
  So
• 21:00
  Absolutely.
• 21:00
  So looking at kind of I think a lot of times, you know, there's something that comes up and
• 21:05
  and a solution gets plugged in to to address that one spill.
• 21:09
  Fill an online packet thing, and they're not looking at the overall picture to your points.
• 21:14
  If you've tried things and you don't wanna go in there and and apply the same strategy.
• 21:18
  Obviously, you're missing certain things that, potentially could be a better addressed.
• 21:22
  Now for Let's talk a little bit about boundaries between men and women and conflict
• 21:27
  in the workplace, both of you being female and when you go into different environments, do you
• 21:33
  see a disparity between male females in reference to conflict?
• 21:37
  Is it, you know, is that too much of a big question?
• 21:40
  And is it based on sector and size of company.
• 21:42
  Does that exist, you know, between gender roles?
• 21:46
  Yes.
• 21:46
  I believe there's some of that that's out there, but our goal is to try to neutralize and
• 21:51
  try to figure out, like, how can we all collectively be seen as for who we are, but
• 21:57
  respectfully understand and respect the other person.
• 22:00
  So I think if we add energy to differences, you're going to experience more of that
• 22:07
  inclusion.
• 22:08
  So I think a lot of times it's better to figure out what's a bigger problem versus so much.
• 22:13
  And, like, how can we if let's say there's harassment going on, like, what what are ways
• 22:18
  are we taking action to try to resolve those gender differences to try to get more
• 22:22
  neutrality.
• 22:23
  Yeah.
• 22:23
  We're always gonna get you the root cause of the problem because a lot of times companies
• 22:27
  will put a Band Aid on it and that Band Aid eventually falls off and the wound just keeps,
• 22:32
  you know, festering and we're not really resolving anything.
• 22:35
  So we're really striving to get to the root cause and the root problem of the disconnect as
• 22:41
  a whole in order to create resolution.
• 22:43
  And sometimes you see companies moving the same employee to different parts of different
• 22:47
  business units, and you're like, okay.
• 22:49
  Well, hold on.
• 22:50
  They were over here.
• 22:50
  Now they're over here.
• 22:52
  And what what were you doing, you know, to address the concern, and they'll go, well, we
• 22:56
  just thought they would get along better over here.
• 22:59
  I mean, their skill set would be better used over here, but you realize that they've been
• 23:03
  like a ping pong ball that's kind of gone over, you know, into different sectors of the
• 23:07
  business but ultimately the same outcome there's still a drain on productivity and those
• 23:12
  type because they're not addressing.
• 23:13
  And sometimes people need some employees maybe it it may be bigger.
• 23:17
  Like, we know more psychological problems or additional things where they may be needing
• 23:22
  something a little bit, a big, a bigger of an intervention that conflict resolution can
• 23:26
  address.
• 23:27
  Now I think this has been an amazing conversation.
• 23:31
  We probably could continue that much more.
• 23:34
  Is there anything that we haven't shared about conflict before I let you go that you think if
• 23:39
  you can give one sound bite or 2 about conflict, before we signed off for everybody
• 23:44
  that's listening.
• 23:46
  I think one of the biggest misconceptions out there is most of the time people are setting
• 23:50
  ultimatums, not and they're thinking that it's a boundary, but, really, it's a demand or a
• 23:55
  threat projected onto the other person.
• 23:57
  And rarely does that create resolution within the dynamic where boundaries are all about
• 24:02
  operating from a shared value in negotiating a solution that provides mutual respect for both
• 24:09
  parties in order to thrive collectively as a whole.
• 24:13
  And I think too, like, our method, we have the ASAP acronym that helps us know how to use the
• 24:19
  4 steps in order to set a healthy boundary and open up those, you know, communication channels
• 24:24
  to negotiate.
• 24:25
  So I think a lot of times people will wait too long to set a boundary, and then they'll go to
• 24:30
  approach the person and the other the on the receiving, and they're like, where's this
• 24:33
  coming from?
• 24:34
  Because it happened, like, 2 months ago.
• 24:36
  So I think it's really important when the problems do arise to, you know, constructively
• 24:41
  say, hey.
• 24:41
  Can we talk you know, when are you available to talk about something?
• 24:44
  You know, this is really bothering me.
• 24:45
  I'd like to sit down and have a conversation with you.
• 24:48
  And so addressing it sooner than later is going to be key to maintaining that overall sense of
• 24:54
  safety within the workplace, but then also maintaining those relationships and the flow of
• 24:58
  productivity.
• 24:59
  Yep.
• 25:01
  As soon as possible resolution.
• 25:02
  I like it because we know how many things when these get get left and they could start off as
• 25:07
  a little pebble and then it turns into a boulder.
• 25:10
  And accept, you know, and then it's harder to address it as it against momentum.
• 25:15
  Well, Janet Gillian, thank you so much.
• 25:17
  It's been amazing for everybody listening What am I taking away?
• 25:21
  I'm taking away just a basic reinforcement that boundaries are about mutual commonality versus
• 25:27
  demand.
• 25:29
  So think about that.
• 25:30
  I want you to kinda go up there in your relationships, whether it's at home or at work,
• 25:34
  and think about it.
• 25:34
  How well are you defined within your boundaries and how well do others in your life know what
• 25:40
  they are and how are you, whether it's a relationship, out of home, or at work, how are
• 25:44
  you working progressively, to the endpoint of having a better relationship, either at or at
• 25:50
  work.
• 25:50
  Again, thanks so much.
• 25:52
  Now before we let you go, tell us where people can get ahold of you if they wanted to have a,
• 25:57
  you know, a discovery call or, to find out more about your book.
• 26:00
  Yes.
• 26:01
  So they'd like to set up a discovery call in order to resolve conflict or just increase
• 26:05
  leadership within their company culture, you can go to 28consultancy.com.
• 26:11
  And if you'd like to get our book boundary badass, you can head over to Amazon.
• 26:16
  Awesome.
• 26:17
  Well, again, thanks so much for your time and everyone.
• 26:21
  If you're needing any additional resource, please reach out to Jen and Jillian.
• 26:25
  And again, thank you, and, we'll chat with everybody soon.
• 26:28
  Take care.
• 26:29
  Thank you.
• 26:30
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne creating the space for positive,
• 26:36
  healthy change.
• 26:37
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
• 26:43
  roxannedurhaj.com/blueprint.
• 26:47
  We'll see you next time.
• 26:49
  An authentic living with Roxanne.