Latest / The Living Waters Podcast / Ep. 369 - Sharing the Gospel in the Midst of Hostility

Transcript

Ep. 369 - Sharing the Gospel in the Midst of Hostility · The Living Waters Podcast

1:04
SPEAKER_01: I think often we invite ridicule and persecution because we go into an argument to win it rather than to be a witness.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: We want to be a winner, not a witness.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: And being a witness comes with the reality that I was there.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: I was there once.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm I am nothing but a beggar who found food and is inviting other beggars to the feast.
1:29
SPEAKER_01: And when you have that heart, it people may still be angry with you because you're preaching the truth.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: They may still get upset with you because you're using the law to show them they're starving for the gospel.
1:44
SPEAKER_01: But you're not gonna invite it because you're trying to win an argument.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
1:49
SPEAKER_01: There's a different disposition there when you're pleading for the sake of salvation and not self-righteously like look at all of the one-liners I've memorized and let me show you how I'm gonna make you feel dumb and wrong.
2:03
SPEAKER_01: And we've seen it.
2:04
SPEAKER_01: Like I've seen, I I won't name them, but I know the YouTube channels that have millions of subscribers, and the and the person's just being a jerk for Jesus.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: And people love it.
2:13
SPEAKER_01: We get fired up because it makes us feel empowered.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, we are right.
2:18
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, we are the smarter ones.
2:20
SPEAKER_01: Like, no, man, we are beggars who found food.
2:24
SPEAKER_01: We were starving in the desert, we were thirsty in the desert, and we found the wellspring of living waters, and now we're telling others about it.
2:31
SPEAKER_01: That is such a different disposition when we preach the gospel.
2:40
SPEAKER_02: Extra, extra, read all about it.
2:43
SPEAKER_05: In Springfield, Missouri, 19-year-old Ryan Schaefer went on a crime spree on September 28th in a Missouri State University parking lot.
2:51
SPEAKER_05: The smoking gun reported the college sophomore allegedly shattered car windows, ripped off side mirrors, dented hoods, and broke windshield wipers.
3:01
SPEAKER_05: When Springfield police officers visited him at his apartment the next day, Schaefer admitted that the person on surveillance video did bear a resemblance to him and turned his phone over as evidence.
3:12
SPEAKER_05: Investigators found a conversation between Schaefer and ChatGPT, which included questions such as, what if I smash the blank out of multiple cars?
3:21
SPEAKER_05: And is there any way they could know it was me?
3:25
SPEAKER_05: Schaefer went on to make vague, threatening statements to the AI tool.
3:29
SPEAKER_05: He was charged with felony property damage.
3:31
SPEAKER_05: The article was titled Least Competent Criminal, dude, don't confess your crimes to Jack GPT.
3:39
SPEAKER_05: You guys, the new dilemmas of life that even criminals can't get away with stupid intelligence.
3:53
SPEAKER_06: No, Max.
3:57
SPEAKER_06: Seriously, I mean it's really scary when you think how it could be used for evil.
4:02
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
4:02
SPEAKER_01: Ray, do you use it to write songs?
4:05
SPEAKER_01: No, I didn't do that song.
4:07
SPEAKER_01: What was it like growing up in Ireland?
4:09
SPEAKER_01: No, it's a beautiful song.
4:11
SPEAKER_05: Ray with the cool glasses.
4:15
SPEAKER_05: And my bono glasses.
4:16
SPEAKER_05: Where do you find those?
4:16
SPEAKER_05: I think they do look good.
4:17
SPEAKER_06: They were very cheap.
4:18
SPEAKER_05: Those are nice.
4:19
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I like them.
4:20
SPEAKER_05: Were they more expensive than your watch?
4:21
SPEAKER_05: Can I see them?
4:22
SPEAKER_05: That's just$12.
4:24
SPEAKER_06: No, you can't see.
4:27
SPEAKER_06: Um they're really good because my my optometrist said that I've got to wear sunglasses if I want to keep my good eyesight in when I'm outside.
4:33
SPEAKER_06: And they're um UV, what are you they stop the sunglasses?
4:36
SPEAKER_05: Well, when I saw you wearing them in the video, I didn't think they were sunglasses.
4:39
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
4:40
SPEAKER_05: I mean, that's how the good look.
4:41
SPEAKER_01: The brand is made for her.
4:43
SPEAKER_05: Oh.
4:45
SPEAKER_05: I love being her.
4:47
SPEAKER_05: They come in means.
4:48
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
4:49
SPEAKER_05: Oh, the slow put on, dude again.
4:52
SPEAKER_05: Oh.
4:52
SPEAKER_05: Guys, is it is it true that like our phones are always listening?
4:57
SPEAKER_05: Is that a fact?
4:58
SPEAKER_05: Shh.
4:59
SPEAKER_05: I hope.
5:00
SPEAKER_05: Not.
5:00
SPEAKER_05: This is on the note of chat GPT and like the the you know, the things it it know.
5:06
SPEAKER_05: Because that's the thing, right?
5:07
SPEAKER_05: It's building information about you.
5:10
SPEAKER_05: I remember one time I asked it something and it like knew names of my family.
5:13
SPEAKER_03: Remember Mark Zuckerberg when he went before Congress and he was asked a question similar to that?
5:17
SPEAKER_06: And instead of answering, he picked up his drink and he's like, oh, yeah.
5:24
SPEAKER_06: So let me let me put this to the test.
5:25
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
5:26
SPEAKER_06: Siri, are you listening to us?
5:30
SPEAKER_06: Oh, she's turned off.
5:33
SPEAKER_03: See what you said?
5:35
SPEAKER_03: I respect your privacy and only listen when you're talking to me.
5:37
SPEAKER_03: You can learn about Apple's approach to privacy at Apple.
5:40
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
5:41
SPEAKER_01: Exactly what Siri would say if she was listening.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: That's true.
5:46
SPEAKER_01: I'm listening to every single word, yeah.
5:49
SPEAKER_06: Okay, would you rather lose your car or your phone?
5:52
SPEAKER_04: My phone.
5:53
SPEAKER_04: No, just my phone.
5:55
SPEAKER_06: No, you would not.
5:56
SPEAKER_06: Your phone gives you contact with your wife.
5:59
SPEAKER_06: It's got entertainment on it.
6:02
SPEAKER_06: You know, give up your phone or give up your car.
6:04
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, which would you give up?
6:06
SPEAKER_01: Honestly, I think my phone.
6:12
SPEAKER_05: Well, Isaac, I mean Isaac, what?
6:16
SPEAKER_05: Surrendering to the phone.
6:17
SPEAKER_06: Seriously, you think about what your phone does for you.
6:20
SPEAKER_06: It keeps me in contact with my wife.
6:21
SPEAKER_06: It's got photos on it.
6:23
SPEAKER_05: Oscar, yeah, I hear what you're saying.
6:24
SPEAKER_05: Like, I it's a love-hate relationship.
6:26
SPEAKER_05: Like, I hate it, but the dependency on it.
6:29
SPEAKER_01: That's the thing.
6:29
SPEAKER_01: I will say, I I have, if it wasn't for my work responsibilities, I think I would have already bought a dumb phone.
6:37
SPEAKER_06: What's a dumb phone?
6:38
SPEAKER_01: They're just, it's like an old phone.
6:39
SPEAKER_01: All you can do is make phone calls on it.
6:41
SPEAKER_05: But Oscar, think how much research you do and and stuff you and sermons and oh, you're saying, okay.
6:46
SPEAKER_05: I thought you meant like, yeah, yeah.
6:48
SPEAKER_05: I see what you mean.
6:49
SPEAKER_06: So you make phone calls on your iPad.
6:52
SPEAKER_05: Hello?
6:53
SPEAKER_05: Hey, Ray.
6:55
SPEAKER_05: No, but the the accessibility, you guys.
6:58
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I mean, seriously, like think about when we were out filming uh, you know, in uh Europe and stuff, like being able to access information and just facts on things.
7:07
SPEAKER_06: And you're never gonna be bored when you've got a phone.
7:09
SPEAKER_06: I mean boredom's terrifying, so yeah.
7:12
SPEAKER_05: Did you give up Lucy or your phone, Ray?
7:14
SPEAKER_06: Uh phone.
7:15
SPEAKER_06: Oh I wouldn't think of it.
7:18
SPEAKER_06: Really?
7:18
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I love my dog.
7:20
SPEAKER_06: Wow.
7:20
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
7:20
SPEAKER_06: Do you gonna have my dog?
7:22
SPEAKER_06: No, no, it's all right.
7:23
SPEAKER_06: Even then.
7:23
SPEAKER_01: Did you give up your phone or your dog?
7:27
SPEAKER_05: Wrong person.
7:29
SPEAKER_05: Wife.
7:34
SPEAKER_03: I love my dog.
7:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, sure.
7:37
SPEAKER_04: Did I sound sincere?
7:39
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, um, um, anyway, that life is changing, the world is changing, everything is rearranging.
7:50
SPEAKER_05: Ooh.
7:51
SPEAKER_06: So, sharing the gospel, and oh, we haven't even done an introduction stuff.
7:56
SPEAKER_06: What introduction stuff?
7:57
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
7:58
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, we haven't gotten into the thing yet, right?
8:00
SPEAKER_05: Um, guys, by the way.
8:03
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you still jet lagged around, Mark?
8:05
SPEAKER_05: Oh, what we we didn't even talk about that last episode.
8:07
SPEAKER_05: Do you guys feel the jet lags?
8:10
SPEAKER_05: I remember jet lagged, jet lagged.
8:12
SPEAKER_05: I remember, but I didn't ask you guys how you're coping.
8:15
SPEAKER_01: We did, we talked about it.
8:16
SPEAKER_01: I said we all agreed we've been waking up around 3 a.m.
8:18
SPEAKER_01: and we get really tired at 7 30 p.m.
8:20
SPEAKER_01: We did.
8:21
SPEAKER_05: Easy proof of jet lags.
8:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: And then you promised to give each of us$10,000 out of your own chicken account.
8:28
SPEAKER_05: That's right.
8:29
SPEAKER_05: That's a lie.
8:32
SPEAKER_05: Um yeah, anyway, guys, uh let's just recount in that.
8:36
SPEAKER_05: I'm still just uh buzzing from that awesome journey.
8:39
SPEAKER_03: You look like you're crashing quickly on your own.
8:41
SPEAKER_03: You do, right?
8:42
SPEAKER_03: I think it's starting.
8:43
SPEAKER_05: I've never seen your eyes so small.
8:46
SPEAKER_05: It's so stinking deceptive because you think, like, oh, I'm good.
8:49
SPEAKER_05: Wow, I can conquer the world.
8:51
SPEAKER_05: You know, I got up at four this morning.
8:53
SPEAKER_05: I felt amazing.
8:54
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
8:54
SPEAKER_05: It's starting to hit.
8:56
SPEAKER_06: I've seen you many times I didn't get any sleep last night and boasting away, and then about 11 o'clock, it's where you start like um your body feels like it's vibrating.
9:07
SPEAKER_05: That's how tired you are.
9:08
SPEAKER_05: It's seriously, it's like this experience.
9:13
SPEAKER_05: It happens to me.
9:15
SPEAKER_05: Anyway, enough of your guys' silliness.
9:18
SPEAKER_05: Time for a cool, classy comment.
9:22
SPEAKER_05: This is from a 28-year-old sister in Christ.
9:26
SPEAKER_05: Beauty and brokenness.
9:27
SPEAKER_05: Hello, I just want to say I have been so edified and encouraged by your podcast.
9:31
SPEAKER_05: In fact, it is my favorite podcast to listen to.
9:35
SPEAKER_05: Your newest episode with Julia Zwain meant so much to me.
9:38
SPEAKER_05: I cannot express how much I enjoyed it and how timely it was.
9:41
SPEAKER_05: God has used Julia and her gift to bring so much help to me as I've been going through what seems to be exactly what she has experienced.
9:48
SPEAKER_05: Her poem, Hiding Place, especially resonated with me.
9:51
SPEAKER_05: It described almost word for word what I face daily.
9:54
SPEAKER_05: As a Christian, it is indescribably sweet to know I'm not the only one.
9:58
SPEAKER_05: This has given me so much hope and just enough strength to keep trusting Christ.
10:02
SPEAKER_06: So, what's she specifically talking about?
10:04
SPEAKER_05: Julia Zwain, my daughter's book.
10:07
SPEAKER_05: Uh yeah.
10:09
SPEAKER_05: Uh it's called Wow, Julia.
10:14
SPEAKER_05: Hell training.
10:20
SPEAKER_05: All things broken and beautiful.
10:21
SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
10:22
SPEAKER_05: Like all things.
10:23
SPEAKER_05: Broken and beautiful.
10:24
SPEAKER_05: What if what if pain was not forever?
10:26
SPEAKER_05: I think what it is.
10:27
SPEAKER_06: What is life?
10:27
SPEAKER_06: What if life was just jet lag?
10:30
SPEAKER_05: Oh man.
10:31
SPEAKER_05: Uh and she said, Thank you so much, Julia, for your obedience to the Lord.
10:34
SPEAKER_05: I'm praying He blesses you with joy and courage as you continue to wait on Him.
10:37
SPEAKER_05: Love another 28-year-old sister in Christ.
10:40
SPEAKER_05: Wow.
10:40
SPEAKER_05: That's so cool.
10:41
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, what a blessing.
10:42
SPEAKER_05: I've had a number of people reach out and say how much that episode in particular really blessed you.
10:46
SPEAKER_06: And we've had a number of people buy 10 copies of the book.
10:49
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
10:49
SPEAKER_05: Really?
10:50
SPEAKER_05: Through his time.
10:50
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
10:51
SPEAKER_05: That's really cool.
10:51
SPEAKER_05: It's really taken off.
10:54
SPEAKER_05: Love it.
10:55
SPEAKER_02: And our radically revolutionary source.
10:57
SPEAKER_02: This podcast is branding by me.
10:59
SPEAKER_02: Four questions survey box.
11:04
SPEAKER_05: I know what you're gonna say next.
11:06
SPEAKER_05: I must say this is one of the best boxes we've ever produced.
11:09
SPEAKER_05: It's classy, isn't it?
11:10
SPEAKER_05: So nice.
11:11
SPEAKER_05: Brad Snow.
11:12
SPEAKER_05: It reminds me of like I when I I think maybe it's psychological, but I feels like almost pencil, like pencil material or something.
11:18
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it's Brad Snow's genius.
11:19
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
11:20
SPEAKER_06: Graphic artist.
11:21
SPEAKER_06: And what's it come with, Ray?
11:22
SPEAKER_06: It comes with 110 Commandment coins, 100 million dollar bills.
11:35
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
11:36
SPEAKER_01: The sound effects.
11:38
SPEAKER_06: Two pads, one for Christmas and one for Easter, asking those incredible questions.
11:43
SPEAKER_06: And finally, a thou shalt kneel not steal pen.
11:46
SPEAKER_06: Thou shalt not steal.
11:48
SPEAKER_01: What is happening right now?
11:51
SPEAKER_01: You heard it here first.
11:52
SPEAKER_01: Just write into the microphone next time.
11:54
SPEAKER_05: What in the world?
11:55
SPEAKER_01: I'm just waiting for Easy to be like, yeah, and the other day.
11:58
SPEAKER_05: It's gonna happen.
11:59
SPEAKER_05: So anyway, uh get that, man.
12:02
SPEAKER_05: This is really, really cool.
12:03
SPEAKER_05: They've been doing well, right, Ray?
12:04
SPEAKER_06: Uh it's just come out.
12:05
SPEAKER_06: We don't know.
12:06
SPEAKER_06: I think Friday it went up on the site.
12:07
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
12:08
SPEAKER_05: But it's very exciting.
12:09
SPEAKER_05: So question test.
12:11
SPEAKER_05: Checking out.
12:11
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so the survey is go ahead, Oscar.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: If I could just say this is just just feels really cool and classy.
12:17
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
12:17
SPEAKER_05: Ooh.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: And radical and revolutionary.
12:21
SPEAKER_05: And awesome.
12:22
SPEAKER_06: Don't look at my stuff, Oscar.
12:24
SPEAKER_06: Um so there's a video up on the site to see exactly what it's about.
12:27
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
12:28
SPEAKER_05: Make sure to get it, don't forget it, or you will regret it.
12:31
SPEAKER_05: LivingWaters.com.
12:32
SPEAKER_05: What are you whispering, Mark?
12:34
SPEAKER_03: I think it's a good time to tell people that they should subscribe and leave reviews.
12:39
SPEAKER_05: Oh yeah.
12:39
SPEAKER_05: Oscar, tell people.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: Subscribe and leave a review.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, listen, the reason why that's super helpful, we would love for you right now if you're listening in your car, if you're washing the dishes, if you're out on a walk and you're listening to this, if you can, just pull up your phone, whatever app you're using.
12:54
SPEAKER_01: If you haven't already subscribed, if you've already done that, leave us a review.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: Why is that important?
13:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh it we we are so thankful for our listenership, but we also want to reach more people, not because we think we're particularly amazing, but because there's just a lack of podcasts out there that are centered on the gospel and that have a high value for God's word.
13:15
SPEAKER_01: And for whatever reason, the Lord is using this one to reach people.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and this one is infused with the gospel.
13:22
SPEAKER_01: And so the best way for you to help us get this podcast on the top of their algorithm is for you to subscribe it and to leave a comment.
13:30
SPEAKER_01: And if you want to take it even a step further, to share it with a friend.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: But at the very least, subscribe and leave a comment.
13:34
SPEAKER_01: It'll help a ton.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: You will help us reach more people with the gospel.
13:38
SPEAKER_05: Oh man.
13:39
SPEAKER_05: And the famous words of alpha beta.
13:41
SPEAKER_05: Tell a friend.
13:42
SPEAKER_05: You remember that.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: Is that the grocery store?
13:44
SPEAKER_05: Alpha beta?
13:45
SPEAKER_05: Telefriend.
13:46
SPEAKER_05: Sure.
13:46
SPEAKER_05: Telefriend.
13:47
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
13:47
SPEAKER_05: Funny that grocery stores, right?
13:49
SPEAKER_05: We're thinking about like telefriend.
13:51
SPEAKER_05: Grassroots marketing.
13:53
SPEAKER_05: Telefram.
13:54
SPEAKER_05: Telephone.
13:55
SPEAKER_05: Telefram.
13:56
SPEAKER_05: That's what it is.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: That marketing worked out for them.
13:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:59
SPEAKER_05: Oh, they're gone, huh?
14:03
SPEAKER_05: All right.
14:03
SPEAKER_05: Oh, and don't forget Living Waters Mug, David City Bible, Living Waters TV.
14:07
SPEAKER_05: All the Living Waters.
14:11
SPEAKER_05: Chat lag com.
14:12
SPEAKER_05: And don't forget the podcast YouTube channel.
14:15
SPEAKER_05: Subscribe there as well.
14:16
SPEAKER_05: France.
14:17
SPEAKER_05: All right.
14:18
SPEAKER_05: Sharing the gospel in the midst of hostility.
14:23
SPEAKER_05: Boy, this is fresh in my mind.
14:25
SPEAKER_05: It's going back to our trip to Turkey, Greece, and Rome.
14:29
SPEAKER_05: In particular, uh thinking about Turkey.
14:32
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
14:33
SPEAKER_05: Thinking about our brother Nurulla.
14:35
SPEAKER_03: Nurula.
14:36
SPEAKER_03: Nurulla.
14:37
SPEAKER_05: And um hairy cheese.
14:39
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
14:40
SPEAKER_05: Oh, hairy cheese.
14:42
SPEAKER_05: What a wonderful, delightful dessert.
14:44
SPEAKER_05: It's a dessert.
14:44
SPEAKER_05: Look at Ray's like, huh?
14:46
SPEAKER_05: Who's called Harry Cheese?
14:47
SPEAKER_05: Harry Chase.
14:48
SPEAKER_05: Let's say.
14:49
SPEAKER_03: Were you guys nervous to share the gospel in Turkey?
14:52
SPEAKER_05: Were we nervous?
14:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
14:54
SPEAKER_05: I'll tell you, I was um I was most reticent in Turkey.
14:57
SPEAKER_05: And and especially because our guides told us, hey, you do have to be careful here.
15:01
SPEAKER_06: So it's a Muslim country.
15:03
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's Muslim, 99% Muslim, but also secular.
15:07
SPEAKER_05: But then you hear stories.
15:08
SPEAKER_05: Didn't you already watch a movie once about guys on a train and then a guy got arrested in prison in Turkey?
15:14
SPEAKER_05: I thought you told me about that.
15:15
SPEAKER_05: No, no.
15:15
SPEAKER_06: It's called Munad Express.
15:17
SPEAKER_04: Right, you did.
15:18
SPEAKER_06: No, but it's not like what you're talking about.
15:20
SPEAKER_06: You're way off.
15:21
SPEAKER_06: When I had the Drug Prevention Center, the the drug squad asked if I'd watch a movie along with uh amalgamated theaters throughout New Zealand and commend it because I was into drugs.
15:31
SPEAKER_06: Sorry, into drug prevention.
15:33
SPEAKER_06: And uh I I couldn't commend it because it was absolutely filthy, but it was terrifying at the same time.
15:38
SPEAKER_06: It's a true story about a guy who strapped some um hashish to his legs and was going to make it through the airport.
15:46
SPEAKER_06: And what happened is they stopped the bus that he was on, and everyone got off the bus and he was hiding under a seat, and uh you just see this guard's leg standing by him, and he has to stand up, and he gets out of the bus and he walks towards he didn't realise it, but there was some sort of scare going on with terrorists, and that's why there were so many police were at the airport.
16:02
SPEAKER_06: He lines up, and this was like 35 years ago, 40 years ago.
16:07
SPEAKER_06: He likes this is nothing special nowadays, but he lines up, and while he's waiting, he sees the police in front of him, all got guns, and you hear pum, phom, bum, p-foom, phom, bum, bum, phump, p-foom.
16:18
SPEAKER_06: And as he's going forward, phom phom p-foom phum phum phum phum pum phum phom.
16:22
SPEAKER_06: And as they go like this on, they feel the hashes strapped to his body, and they think it's um bombs.
16:29
SPEAKER_06: So every gun pointed at him, and it was just so dramatic.
16:33
SPEAKER_06: And I thought, I'm never going to Turkey.
16:35
SPEAKER_06: Because he got thrown into prison, and it was the horror of that prison was just terrible what he went through.
16:42
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
16:43
SPEAKER_06: And they showed they showed uh one of the prisoners had a pet cat, and the other prisoners hung the cat in front of them.
16:49
SPEAKER_06: Oh, and it was just and all this is true story, and uh he was I think he was in the prison for many years and finally got out.
16:55
SPEAKER_06: But true story, so that's why I didn't want to go to Turkey.
16:57
SPEAKER_06: I won't even eat Turkey.
16:59
SPEAKER_05: Take.
16:59
SPEAKER_05: They're changing the name actually officially, like it's always been Turkey there, but they're like trying to make it so they're not called a bunch of turkeys.
17:08
SPEAKER_05: Oh, really?
17:09
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so what are they calling steaks?
17:10
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, turkeys.
17:12
SPEAKER_01: I will say being there really made me want to be more careful about how I use the word persecution.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: Because to to hear about people being kicked out of a country they've lived in for 20, 30, 40 years because they shared the gospel, to see how uh how faithful Christians were also just extremely cautious about how to share the gospel because they know they can be arrested.
17:38
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we you know, I heard a story about I think it was 2007 or 2017, I know there's a there's a seven involved, but uh two Muslims converted to Christianity and they were translating a Bible study with another German Christian in Turkey, and their publishing house got raided and they got killed.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: And the Turkish government hardly did anything about it.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: You know, just so I think so often we're we are quick to be like, I'm being persecuted, because my uncle didn't like my social media post.
18:10
SPEAKER_01: But these people are actually being persecuted, their jobs are at risk, their lives are at risk because of their faith.
18:19
SPEAKER_06: As Americans, Christians in Turkey, could someone have said to you, we think you guys are spies and you're in big trouble.
18:27
SPEAKER_06: Oh yeah.
18:28
SPEAKER_06: Just like that.
18:29
SPEAKER_06: Because they know you're Christians and they can just level it.
18:31
SPEAKER_06: You're in our country to spy, and you're in big trouble.
18:33
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it could have happened.
18:34
SPEAKER_05: I mean, you know, we were we were just thinking, man, are you know, are we gonna get stopped?
18:39
SPEAKER_05: We had tracks with us and different things in our bags.
18:42
SPEAKER_05: Put mine in your bag.
18:43
SPEAKER_05: I didn't think our true would do it.
18:45
SPEAKER_06: The whole team put everything in easy.
18:47
SPEAKER_06: That was the plan, right?
18:48
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
18:49
SPEAKER_05: At least I was an Arab and can somehow maybe get some sympathy.
18:52
SPEAKER_05: But you know, you know, I we were, we were like, what's gonna happen or whatever.
18:56
SPEAKER_05: Uh but it's serious, by the way.
18:59
SPEAKER_05: You're serious.
19:00
SPEAKER_05: I put them in your bag.
19:01
SPEAKER_05: What in my bag?
19:03
SPEAKER_03: My gospel tracts set against Islam.
19:05
SPEAKER_05: You put them in my bag?
19:07
SPEAKER_05: Which bag?
19:08
SPEAKER_03: Your backpack.
19:09
SPEAKER_05: Oh, great.
19:10
SPEAKER_05: Oh, that's funny.
19:11
SPEAKER_05: That's why I got confiscated.
19:12
SPEAKER_05: You know that I'm in big trouble in Turkey.
19:15
SPEAKER_05: So it hit them.
19:18
SPEAKER_05: No, but but you know, I was I I was just thinking in Nurula, and he told us a story of how basically his dad kicked him out.
19:25
SPEAKER_05: I mean, it was an intense like issue, and believers have to count the cost.
19:30
SPEAKER_05: Like they're talking about the church that they have that's 70 people, which they said is considered like a larger church, you know, there.
19:39
SPEAKER_05: And and it just it really made me step back and think, you know, but this didn't stop them.
19:45
SPEAKER_05: This has not stopped them.
19:47
SPEAKER_05: And and that that became a real encouragement to me.
19:50
SPEAKER_06: But and it didn't stop you guys, and I think that's admirable.
19:52
SPEAKER_06: You did get a Hawaii for hint season.
19:54
SPEAKER_03: Oh well, now we didn't open air preach in Turkey.
19:58
SPEAKER_03: I can understand why.
19:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but new really, boy, he was such a neat, neat brother.
20:03
SPEAKER_03: And his brother memorized the whole Quran.
20:05
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
20:06
SPEAKER_05: Really?
20:06
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, there are a lot of a lot of the Muslims, you know, do that, and they're they're called uh Hafaz.
20:12
SPEAKER_05: Once you've done it, you haven't you haven't like an official title.
20:14
SPEAKER_05: They call you a hafaz.
20:15
SPEAKER_05: So you have to prove you've memorized the whole thing, or just say it.
20:18
SPEAKER_05: I'm sure they I think he's he talked about you do you get tested on it and stuff, and so yeah.
20:24
SPEAKER_05: So and you think of that, you know, the dedication and the devotion and and the commitment.
20:31
SPEAKER_05: And then you have these believers, it's like it costs them something.
20:34
SPEAKER_05: Like here in the US, yeah, you you may have maybe some issues with your family, but by and large, our society is so pluralistic that it's like it's it's a it's a serious issue.
20:45
SPEAKER_05: Like even there, they were questioning like, would the government really intervene?
20:49
SPEAKER_05: Or if they did, what would they do?
20:50
SPEAKER_05: They might, they might not, but because it's like, yeah, you're you should stay Muslim, what are you doing?
20:55
SPEAKER_05: And all those factors begin to kick in.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: Additionally, it's easy if you are feeling you know turmoil or whatever to from a family member, it's easy to find solace because we have.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: Readily accessible community gospel community here.
21:07
SPEAKER_01: Right.
21:07
SPEAKER_01: But you know, he said 15,000 total Christians in the entire country of Turkey.
21:13
SPEAKER_01: The largest church that I've ever preached at was 15,000.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: And so just to visualize that number spread across an entire country, there is not a lot of Christians in Turkey.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: No.
21:25
SPEAKER_05: Oh, I think he told us 15,000 evangelicals.
21:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:28
SPEAKER_05: 15,000 evangelicals in all of Turkey.
21:33
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's crazy.
21:34
SPEAKER_05: You know, that's crazy.
21:35
SPEAKER_05: But he talked about also how, you know, the the persecution causes them to unite and to and to be unified in that because they have each other only.
21:48
SPEAKER_05: You know, and you think about like the history of of the church.
21:53
SPEAKER_05: I mean, that's why we went there because we're going through the places where the early believers were and to see how things have turned, but yet there God has left a remnant.
22:02
SPEAKER_05: And you know, our prayers that that will that will stir things up, you know.
22:07
SPEAKER_03: Is it okay to, I mean, more rhetorical than anything, for our brothers and sisters inside these areas to feel nervous as they go out and share the gospel.
22:18
SPEAKER_03: I think of like the Apostle Paul, was it in Ephesians?
22:21
SPEAKER_03: Where he said, Pray for me that I might open up my mouth boldly as I ought.
22:26
SPEAKER_03: Is it 2 Corinthians?
22:27
SPEAKER_03: Um the nerves that they have.
22:30
SPEAKER_03: Like I don't I mean, I feel nervous, you know, when I go out and open or preach.
22:33
SPEAKER_03: I think 1 Corinthians 2.
22:35
SPEAKER_06: And Ephesians, yeah.
22:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
22:38
SPEAKER_06: I used it twice boldly that I'm as I ought to speak.
22:41
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
22:41
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
22:41
SPEAKER_03: Go ahead, Marcus.
22:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, and so the apostle said, I'm not ashamed of the gospel, but that doesn't mean he wasn't nervous.
22:47
SPEAKER_03: He got lowered in a basket.
22:48
SPEAKER_03: He was a basket case.
22:51
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, no, I I think I think it's it's legit.
22:54
SPEAKER_05: I mean, Paul talked about them even despairing of life at times, you know.
22:58
SPEAKER_05: But at the end of the day, though, what what do you do?
23:01
SPEAKER_05: I mean, you think about the disciples when they're was that end of what day?
23:05
SPEAKER_05: End of every day.
23:06
SPEAKER_06: Like Monday, this is a good question.
23:09
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
23:09
SPEAKER_05: You think of like you think of the apostles standing before the the Jewish council and they're telling them not to preach anymore in the name of Jesus.
23:20
SPEAKER_05: Right.
23:21
SPEAKER_05: And were they nervous?
23:22
SPEAKER_05: Man, of course.
23:23
SPEAKER_05: I mean, these guys are beating them, they're imprisoning them, they're locking them up, they're stoning, stoning them.
23:29
SPEAKER_05: And what do they say?
23:31
SPEAKER_05: Whether it's right to obey man rather than God, you be the judges.
23:35
SPEAKER_05: I mean, you know, and it's like, no, we'd rather obey God than man.
23:38
SPEAKER_05: And you think of um you think of what they did after that.
23:44
SPEAKER_05: They went away rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.
23:51
SPEAKER_05: Ray, how do we square with that?
23:53
SPEAKER_05: Like, what what is it that gives a believer that kind of focus?
23:59
SPEAKER_05: What when they're like feeling still the smart of the the canes against their body, you know?
24:04
SPEAKER_06: I don't just look to Jesus on the cross.
24:07
SPEAKER_06: Father, forgive them, for they know what they do.
24:10
SPEAKER_06: I was thinking, we're looking at the fact we live in a hostile world, and and we really do.
24:14
SPEAKER_06: Um, I gotta confess this.
24:17
SPEAKER_06: Sue and I have been watching Gun Smoke.
24:20
SPEAKER_06: Gunsmoke.
24:21
SPEAKER_06: That's from the 1990s.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: Is that where you just shoot a gun and watch the smoke again?
24:24
SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, no.
24:25
SPEAKER_06: It's from the 1960s, and it's about the only thing we can watch that hasn't got any blasphemy in it or sex scenes and that.
24:30
SPEAKER_06: But everything is hostile.
24:32
SPEAKER_06: If they're playing cards, it's you just know someone's gonna tip the table over and pull a gun and shoot the guy for for his uh or if there's Indian shop, there's gonna be hostility.
24:40
SPEAKER_06: Are you awning, uh Oscar?
24:42
SPEAKER_06: No.
24:42
SPEAKER_06: And um Yes.
24:45
SPEAKER_06: We live in a hostile world.
24:47
SPEAKER_06: Um, and people are hostile.
24:49
SPEAKER_06: You can see it in road rage, etc.
24:51
SPEAKER_06: But when you bring the things of God up, it's like putting pouring gasoline on a flame that's already lit.
24:57
SPEAKER_06: It's in the heart of man.
24:59
SPEAKER_06: Enmity against God.
25:00
SPEAKER_06: We're enemies of God in our mind through wicked work.
25:02
SPEAKER_06: So we've just got to deal with that, realize that, and deal with people gently because we've got to understand where they're coming from.
25:10
SPEAKER_05: I was watching a video of uh of a woman who who stood up and was preaching the gospel in Jerusalem.
25:17
SPEAKER_05: And these these men she was Asian.
25:19
SPEAKER_05: Yes, you saw.
25:20
SPEAKER_05: She came to Huntington Beach.
25:22
SPEAKER_05: Oh, she did?
25:22
SPEAKER_05: Yes.
25:23
SPEAKER_05: No way.
25:23
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
25:24
SPEAKER_05: So she was up preaching uh, you know, the gospel, and this these people just started surrounding them and harassing them and singing, and this guy just got in her face, and he pushes her off of the platform she was on, and she found she she broke her or something.
25:39
SPEAKER_05: They had to do surgery on her.
25:40
SPEAKER_05: Did you know about that?
25:41
SPEAKER_06: That might be a different woman.
25:42
SPEAKER_06: This was a young lady about 30, 35 years old.
25:45
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah, okay.
25:46
SPEAKER_05: Sounds about the same, yeah.
25:47
SPEAKER_05: And um, and you know, and and but they knew about the hostility and they they continued to to faithfully preach.
25:56
SPEAKER_05: What's that, Ray?
25:57
SPEAKER_05: Alexander.
25:58
SPEAKER_05: What's that, Ray?
25:59
SPEAKER_05: That should have been turned off.
26:00
SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah, yeah.
26:01
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
26:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Ray.
26:05
SPEAKER_03: You missed his meeting.
26:07
SPEAKER_05: He's like, Where are you?
26:08
SPEAKER_05: Those are Illuminati glasses.
26:10
SPEAKER_05: That's what he's doing.
26:11
SPEAKER_05: Just leave me alone.
26:12
SPEAKER_05: This is hostile.
26:14
SPEAKER_05: Presentation.
26:15
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so so listen, let's get into the words of Jesus here.
26:19
SPEAKER_05: This is John 15, 18 to 20.
26:22
SPEAKER_05: If the world hates you, you know that it hated me before it hated you.
26:27
SPEAKER_05: If you were of the world, the world would love its own.
26:30
SPEAKER_05: Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
26:35
SPEAKER_05: Remember the word that I said to you a servant is not greater than his master.
26:39
SPEAKER_05: If they persecuted me, they will per also persecute you.
26:42
SPEAKER_05: If they kept my word, they will keep yours also.
26:45
SPEAKER_06: And that's qualified in John 7 7.
26:48
SPEAKER_06: The world hates me because I testify of its deeds that they're evil.
26:52
SPEAKER_06: And if we would just keep our mouths shut about sin, righteousness, and judgment, the world would love us.
26:58
SPEAKER_06: But it's what we preach that makes them hate us.
27:01
SPEAKER_01: I am so moved right now by Jesus' response towards persecution.
27:08
SPEAKER_01: I mean, he he is the great lion.
27:13
SPEAKER_01: He is the one, God is the one who speaks and all things come to being.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: He's the one that can cast down rain and thunder and lightning.
27:22
SPEAKER_01: He holds everything in his hand.
27:24
SPEAKER_01: He lacked no power.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: He didn't need a sword to destroy his enemy.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: And yet, Jesus is the one that gets spit on, that gets mocked, that allows a crown of thorns to be put on him, to be nailed to a cross.
27:40
SPEAKER_01: Jesus is the one who dies for his enemy.
27:44
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I think about that.
27:46
SPEAKER_01: Like the early church, think speaking of it, like the early church, they got that.
27:50
SPEAKER_01: And when they were persecuted, they responded by service and sacrifice because they saw that their Lord and Lord and King of Kings did the same thing for them.
28:01
SPEAKER_01: That he died serving and sacrificing for his enemies.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: And I think about it, like the the early church sought out to Christianize Rome, but at some point in history, the church was Romanized.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: And I can't help but wonder how often we have this Roman disposition where now it's like, oh man, we need to fight.
28:25
SPEAKER_01: We're our men, we need to stand up and fight.
28:27
SPEAKER_01: And like we need to fight for truth, but we don't take up a sword.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: We we ought to not act romanized when we're being persecuted.
28:36
SPEAKER_01: We need to be more like Jesus, the reality that he served and sacrificed his entire life for his enemies.
28:44
SPEAKER_01: And we're certainly what what do we do in the midst of persecution, in the midst of people mocking us and ridiculing us?
28:52
SPEAKER_01: We we love our enemies.
28:54
SPEAKER_01: We will good in their lives, we preach the truth and we serve and sacrifice for him.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: Do you I mean, is the American church ready for that kind of response?
29:04
SPEAKER_01: I don't know that it is.
29:06
SPEAKER_06: So it's okay to run away from persecution.
29:09
SPEAKER_06: Persecuted one city, flee to the next.
29:10
SPEAKER_06: That's one of my favorite verses.
29:12
SPEAKER_06: So if someone's gonna hit me, they gotta catch me.
29:15
SPEAKER_06: Nice.
29:16
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's that's that's so important to remember that.
29:19
SPEAKER_05: You know, I I think those are the things that get lost in the midst of persecution.
29:27
SPEAKER_05: It's it's the the things that are counterintuitive to our fallen sinful nature.
29:33
SPEAKER_05: Love my enemies.
29:35
SPEAKER_05: Like we almost act like that was a suggestion from Jesus, you know, like do good to those who persecute you, like pray for them.
29:44
SPEAKER_05: Like these this was the call of the Christian, you know, like to give our lives for our enemies.
29:53
SPEAKER_05: Now, of course, like we know what's happening right now.
29:56
SPEAKER_05: I mean, in Nigeria, Christians are are being slaughtered over there.
30:00
SPEAKER_05: And look, the governing authorities don't they don't bear the sword in vain sword in vain.
30:05
SPEAKER_05: I'm glad to hear the president say that he's gonna try to bring rescue to those believers, you know.
30:11
SPEAKER_05: But it's hard for believers in the midst of that to really think that way.
30:16
SPEAKER_05: Like, I can win my captors with love.
30:19
SPEAKER_05: That's what our savior did.
30:20
SPEAKER_05: He left us an example to follow in his footsteps.
30:23
SPEAKER_05: You know, that's where that's the context of that verse in Peter, you know, like he left us an example, you know.
30:30
SPEAKER_05: And so that that I think that that's that's key.
30:34
SPEAKER_05: But Ray, what what do we what do we do when family members are persecuting us or rejecting the gospel?
30:45
SPEAKER_05: Let's let's even say in our context, it may not be like physical persecution, they're gonna reject us and and beat us and cut us off, but they're just antagonistic to the gospel.
30:57
SPEAKER_05: What do you say to those that are listening now where that's like a it's really hitting home in the Western world?
31:01
SPEAKER_05: What do you do with that?
31:02
SPEAKER_06: Get very depressed.
31:04
SPEAKER_06: Depressed, get sad, saying a country.
31:08
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
31:09
SPEAKER_06: You just gotta show love.
31:10
SPEAKER_06: And you the key is to um put yourself in their position.
31:15
SPEAKER_06: That's the key with everything.
31:16
SPEAKER_06: If someone gets upset of you, if you can translate to how they feel, walk in their shoes, like I did with you when we did that filming.
31:25
SPEAKER_06: I had your shoes when we did the filming hands and to walk in their shoes for a minute.
31:30
SPEAKER_06: And if you can just imagine how you would feel if you're this is what I did with my sister, if my sister had become a Jehovah's Witness, how would I feel?
31:38
SPEAKER_06: That's how she feels about me becoming a Christian.
31:41
SPEAKER_06: She thinks I'm probably caught up in some sect and have been for 50 years.
31:45
SPEAKER_06: And I'm still trying to win, and the only way to win is with love.
31:48
SPEAKER_06: It's the most powerful thing.
31:49
SPEAKER_06: Um, I was just reminded of oh, I got I got myself into trouble.
31:54
SPEAKER_06: I'd never mentioned this before, but I'd been preaching back in the square in New Zealand many years ago, and this woman came up to me and she said, I don't like what you said.
32:02
SPEAKER_06: And she cussed.
32:03
SPEAKER_06: Did I tell you this?
32:04
SPEAKER_06: I don't think so.
32:05
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
32:06
SPEAKER_06: And she slapped my face.
32:08
SPEAKER_06: Oh, she went The Fear of Woman.
32:11
SPEAKER_06: And you know what I said to her?
32:13
SPEAKER_06: I'm so dumb.
32:15
SPEAKER_06: I says, I said, I said, sounds like some demons in there anymore where that came from.
32:21
SPEAKER_06: And she punched me in the mouth.
32:23
SPEAKER_06: Oh, yes, I remember that.
32:26
SPEAKER_06: And then she walked off.
32:27
SPEAKER_06: And uh so I didn't have the wisdom then that I have now.
32:31
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, um, but a guy came out of the crowd and he says, I just saw that, how you reacted to her, and I I want to give my life to Christ.
32:37
SPEAKER_06: So that was wonderful.
32:39
SPEAKER_06: And I thought, boy, that brings one sinner to Christ, something like that.
32:42
SPEAKER_06: What would it take to bring revival?
32:46
SPEAKER_05: And then you started singing Refiner's Fire, right?
32:48
SPEAKER_05: No, I didn't.
32:49
SPEAKER_05: I didn't.
32:49
SPEAKER_05: But revival.
32:50
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
32:51
SPEAKER_06: Revival.
32:52
SPEAKER_06: Uh revival's fire.
32:54
SPEAKER_05: You know, to this day, honestly, when when I think back on that instance with Billy in the in the square when he slapped me and started choking me.
33:03
SPEAKER_05: And I was filming and filming.
33:06
SPEAKER_06: Do you remember the word you said?
33:08
SPEAKER_05: The word I said.
33:09
SPEAKER_06: That's it.
33:10
SPEAKER_06: That was what you said.
33:11
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
33:11
SPEAKER_05: That's my favorite episode.
33:12
SPEAKER_05: If people don't recognize me, I go, oh yeah, it's you.
33:15
SPEAKER_05: Everyone always says that's that is their favorite episode of all Halloween masters.
33:19
SPEAKER_03: When things go wrong.
33:22
SPEAKER_05: This is before the whole big transgender hoopla, right?
33:25
SPEAKER_06: I mean, it wasn't really.
33:27
SPEAKER_06: Billy Billy used to get real upset if you called him a homosexual because he wasn't.
33:31
SPEAKER_06: He was a transsexual or something.
33:33
SPEAKER_06: He came up to he came up to me and picked me up and put my sweater over my head and carried over to the police station.
33:38
SPEAKER_06: Did he say jumpy silly Billy?
33:40
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I used to say it to him all the time.
33:42
SPEAKER_05: Ray, he was uh he was quite frail when very frail.
33:46
SPEAKER_05: What was he that way back when he carried away?
33:47
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, he only had one stripe on his pajamas.
33:50
SPEAKER_05: Did he carry you when he was frail?
33:52
SPEAKER_06: Yes, he did.
33:53
SPEAKER_06: He was a I'm only little fella, and yeah, he carried me while he was frail.
33:57
SPEAKER_06: Wow.
33:58
SPEAKER_06: And it was embarrassing to have my sweater pull over my head and be carried by a transsexual to the police station.
34:03
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
34:03
SPEAKER_05: But you know, to this day, honestly, I I'm blown away that I did not respond.
34:08
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I can't believe it didn't happen because I thought I meant to.
34:12
SPEAKER_05: In my mind, I decided I was gonna knock it out.
34:15
SPEAKER_06: This muscle memory with you.
34:16
SPEAKER_05: Oh, it was, yeah, it was.
34:18
SPEAKER_05: I mean, I grew up, I grew up fighting, you know, and that was my life.
34:21
SPEAKER_05: And so it was like he just, yeah, he just started, I did I wasn't expecting it, you know.
34:27
SPEAKER_05: And Julia was it Summer and Julia and Rachel was there.
34:31
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and then Julia started screaming.
34:33
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
34:34
SPEAKER_06: But you didn't even say anything horrible to him.
34:36
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, he was saying, you know, I said, Billy, there's hope that Christ has hope for you, or something like that.
34:41
SPEAKER_05: I think he's he was saying, I said, Billy, you're a man, or something.
34:43
SPEAKER_05: He's like, Oh, I'm not, you know, whatever.
34:45
SPEAKER_05: And and then he just snapped, listen, yank.
34:49
SPEAKER_05: Call me a yank.
34:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and then no problem, just keep videoing.
34:54
SPEAKER_05: Mark loved it.
34:55
SPEAKER_05: Mark enjoyed it.
34:56
SPEAKER_05: He was like this to Billy.
34:58
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
34:58
SPEAKER_03: Do the other side, slap the other side.
35:01
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
35:02
SPEAKER_05: So, Mark, uh, let's kind of bring it down to street level, right?
35:06
SPEAKER_05: So hostility.
35:09
SPEAKER_05: It's not always getting beat up, getting punched, getting it's going toe-to-toe with a vicious atheist when when open-air preaching or when trying to witness or share the gospel.
35:21
SPEAKER_05: Or so what do we do?
35:24
SPEAKER_05: I mean, we we we are called to give a an answer, we're called to give a defense, but how do we balance that and not let ourselves get worked up to where we blow our witness and forget what we're doing?
35:37
SPEAKER_03: Well, it's to have a heavenward uh focus, isn't it?
35:41
SPEAKER_03: And it helps when you when the camera's rolling.
35:44
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
35:44
SPEAKER_03: Because you know that uh um they're gonna look bad and you won't, you know, in the midst of that.
35:49
SPEAKER_03: I've had plenty of people say, Boy, you really kept your cool in the midst of that conversation.
35:54
SPEAKER_03: I just remember, well, the camera's rolling, you know, right there.
35:57
SPEAKER_03: It's it's really easy to stay focused.
35:59
SPEAKER_03: It's gonna make good video, you know, eventually.
36:02
SPEAKER_03: Remember, Jesus had the absolute perfect message, perfect cadence, enunciation, pronunciation.
36:13
SPEAKER_03: He knew the heart of men.
36:14
SPEAKER_03: He was able to treat one person slightly different than the other person because he knew all men.
36:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
36:20
SPEAKER_03: And yet he was still rejected, right?
36:23
SPEAKER_03: Still rejected, and we are going to still be rejected.
36:27
SPEAKER_03: And if we realize and recognize that we can't save anyone, salvation belongs to the Lord.
36:32
SPEAKER_03: You know, he's calling us to be uh available to share the message, the best abilities, availability.
36:39
SPEAKER_03: And when we share that message, we realize that, you know, God's calling us not to be uh fruitful but faithful.
36:46
SPEAKER_03: And if it wasn't for God's grace, that would be us with silly responses and objections that they may bring and the same things that we hear over and over and over again.
36:55
SPEAKER_03: But uh being faithful with the message is really what God's calling us to do and to be.
37:01
SPEAKER_03: And if God can save Paul, and I think the greatest miracle I've ever seen is seeing my wife get saved because I knew her before she was a Christian.
37:10
SPEAKER_03: And I worked with her.
37:11
SPEAKER_03: I'd go inside the break room, we worked together at a restaurant, and there was no windows in there, and she'd be smoking her cigarettes, you know, inside this break room, and and she'd like be waving at the air, you know, trying to get rid of the cigarette smoke.
37:22
SPEAKER_03: And I've never smoked a cigarette in my life.
37:24
SPEAKER_03: And you you know that as if you don't smoke, you it's not fun to be around somebody who who does uh smoke.
37:31
SPEAKER_06: There's a reason for that, because you can still smell and you've got your taste.
37:34
SPEAKER_06: People that smoke kill their taste buds, they don't realize that, they don't realize how they stink.
37:38
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
37:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and and seeing that miracle of my wife, I I recognize that God can do that miracle anywhere, do it everywhere.
37:47
SPEAKER_03: You know, I was sharing with uh David Helling, one of our cameramen you know, inside of Europe, and just hearing his testimony.
37:53
SPEAKER_06: Is that David Helling from that we used to deal with in Northern California?
37:56
SPEAKER_03: David, he's very talented.
37:57
SPEAKER_03: Very talented, yeah.
37:59
SPEAKER_03: So such neat.
38:00
SPEAKER_03: He's just sharing me the testimony of his wife and and uh different friends inside of his life.
38:05
SPEAKER_03: I'm just like, you know, nobody is too far gone.
38:08
SPEAKER_03: If they have a beating heart, right?
38:11
SPEAKER_03: They're not too far.
38:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, that's huge.
38:15
SPEAKER_01: I think I think often we invite ridicule and persecution because we go into an argument to win it rather than to be a witness.
38:25
SPEAKER_01: We want to be a winner, not a witness.
38:28
SPEAKER_01: And being a witness comes with the reality that I was there.
38:32
SPEAKER_01: I was there once.
38:34
SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm I am nothing but a beggar who found food and is inviting other beggars to the feast.
38:41
SPEAKER_01: And when you have that heart, it people may still be angry with you because you're preaching the truth.
38:48
SPEAKER_01: They may still get upset with you because you're using the law uh to show them they're starving for the gospel.
38:55
SPEAKER_01: But you're not gonna invite it because you're trying to win an argument.
38:59
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
39:00
SPEAKER_01: There's a different disposition there when you're pleading for the sake of salvation and not self-righteously like look at all of the one-liners I've memorized, and let me show you how I'm gonna make you feel dumb and wrong.
39:14
SPEAKER_01: And we've seen it.
39:15
SPEAKER_01: Like, I've seen I I I won't name them, but I know the YouTube channels that have millions of subscribers, and the and the person's just being a jerk for Jesus.
39:24
SPEAKER_01: And people love it.
39:25
SPEAKER_01: We get fired up because it makes us feel empowered.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, we are right.
39:29
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, we are the smarter ones.
39:31
SPEAKER_01: Like, no, man, we are beggars who found food.
39:35
SPEAKER_01: We were starving in a desert, we were thirsty in a desert, and we found the wellspring of living waters, and now we're telling others about it.
39:42
SPEAKER_01: That is such a different disposition when we preach the gospel.
39:46
SPEAKER_06: Seven.
39:46
SPEAKER_06: Seven to all men.
39:48
SPEAKER_03: I went to the orange block with a young gentleman who said, Hey, would you mind if I was just a fly on the wall and I watched you uh share the gospel?
39:55
SPEAKER_03: And I said, Yeah, let's do it.
39:57
SPEAKER_03: So I took him out and I talked to a guy who just got his degree in philosophy, which is like my flesh just loves it.
40:06
SPEAKER_03: I I love it.
40:07
SPEAKER_03: I know my go-to things that I'm gonna do.
40:08
SPEAKER_03: And I talked to this guy.
40:09
SPEAKER_03: And as I was sharing with this guy, not the gospel, but just putting him in a philosophical pretzel.
40:16
SPEAKER_03: The guy that I brought along with me is like pulling on my sleeve.
40:20
SPEAKER_03: You know, if we do this when we're opening our preaching, when when we get caught up and not going through the law and the gospel, tapping in the angle.
40:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's like, or you go behind and you're like holding up a cross sign, like, what are you doing?
40:30
SPEAKER_03: You're you're you get so caught up in the moment and you realize people are coming and going.
40:34
SPEAKER_03: But I was enjoying putting this guy in a philosophical pretzel, and I really didn't get anywhere.
40:41
SPEAKER_03: And then when it was all done and that guy walked away frustrated, the guy that I was with, he said, Is that how it's done?
40:49
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
40:49
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
40:50
SPEAKER_03: And I was so convicted by what he shared when he had said that.
40:54
SPEAKER_03: I go, No, that's not how it's done.
40:56
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
40:56
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's very humble of you, Mark.
40:58
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, um, let me share something a frustration I've had for about 10 months.
41:02
SPEAKER_06: This is just absolutely awesome.
41:04
SPEAKER_06: For.
41:04
SPEAKER_06: There's been roadworks between here and Sreaders College.
41:08
SPEAKER_06: And you've got no idea how annoyed I've been with these roadworks.
41:12
SPEAKER_06: Because I have to, there's four areas.
41:14
SPEAKER_06: I have to go over a huge bump here, a bump up the other side, go across the road, a bump on this side, and then a bump up that side.
41:21
SPEAKER_06: And sometimes I'd slide on my bike.
41:23
SPEAKER_06: And I had my camera equipment there.
41:25
SPEAKER_06: So I three times I wrote to Norwalk City and complained and said, some poor lady who's pregnant with a stroller's gonna fall over and get run over by a truck.
41:36
SPEAKER_06: I did everything I could to try and get them to do something.
41:38
SPEAKER_06: And they finally did it after 10 months of just rotten road works, they fixed it.
41:44
SPEAKER_06: So every time I ride over there, I say one word.
41:48
SPEAKER_06: Smooth.
41:49
SPEAKER_06: And then writing.
41:50
SPEAKER_06: And that's the ministry of John the Baptist.
41:52
SPEAKER_06: Remember, he said, every valley shall be filled, every mountain shall be brought low, the crooked places shall be made straight, and the rough ways smooth.
42:01
SPEAKER_06: And he said, prepare the way of the Lord.
42:02
SPEAKER_06: And that's what followed it.
42:04
SPEAKER_06: And there are obstacles, spiritual obstacles between the ungodly who are groping and the gospel.
42:10
SPEAKER_06: And what we should be doing is making that road smooth for them so they can come to the cross.
42:15
SPEAKER_06: And the way to do it is to make the gospel make sense.
42:18
SPEAKER_06: And I feel like a parrot, what a one-track pony because I say the same things to everybody.
42:23
SPEAKER_06: Do you understand what I'm saying?
42:25
SPEAKER_06: Because I want them to understand what's at stake, it's their eternal salvation.
42:30
SPEAKER_06: I'm not trying to win an argument.
42:31
SPEAKER_06: I want them to see the cross and understand their sin and come to the Savior and know the truth, so the truth will make them free.
42:38
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you know, that there's something about being at ease in the Lord because you do remember salvation is of Him.
42:47
SPEAKER_05: You know, that there's that balance between, I call it yearn yet yield, yearn yet yield.
42:53
SPEAKER_05: We yearn to see the saved, the lost saved, but we yield because we know salvation's of the Lord.
42:59
SPEAKER_05: Like you have to have that clarity of heart and mind, or else you're gonna, you're gonna get in big trouble trying to be the savior.
43:07
SPEAKER_05: Because that's what ends up happening, you know.
43:09
SPEAKER_05: And there's something commendable about that in a sense, like this person really wants to see people saved, like they're really, you know, concerned, but but that's where you start getting into trouble and and contrary, or it's a contradiction, really, but it can breed bitterness in your heart.
43:23
SPEAKER_05: They're not listening, you know, like what's wrong with these people?
43:26
SPEAKER_05: What you know, and and then and then it be begins to become about you wanting to win the argument or or feel successful.
43:36
SPEAKER_05: That's the problem.
43:37
SPEAKER_05: I think and I don't think of it like that often enough, but it's like, why do I press in this way?
43:44
SPEAKER_05: Why do I try to win the argument?
43:47
SPEAKER_05: I think because subconsciously I'm trying to convince myself that I'm a successful evangelist.
43:52
SPEAKER_05: I'm an effective evangelist.
43:53
SPEAKER_05: Because if if I lost the argument or if they didn't respond positively, then that's a that's a reflection on me.
44:00
SPEAKER_05: And and man, that's missing the mark.
44:02
SPEAKER_05: You know, that's why we've talked about it before.
44:06
SPEAKER_05: A humble person who's really in tune with the Lord, who remembers salvations of the Lord, who knows they're in the truth and they don't have anything to prove per se, can say stuff like, I dropped my ring, you know, very easily.
44:18
SPEAKER_05: They can easily say that.
44:19
SPEAKER_05: But no, they could say something like, Um, man, I honestly I'm stomped right now.
44:25
SPEAKER_05: I've never heard that asked.
44:26
SPEAKER_05: That's really actually a really good question.
44:28
SPEAKER_05: Like, but sincerely, you know, and something with that may lead a person to turn to Christ.
44:35
SPEAKER_05: That in and of itself, like authenticity.
44:38
SPEAKER_03: Like that guy, he's Dwayne Gish said that, the scientist before he had passed, he would ask, he was asked the question about his testimony, and he said, I had a question, a scientific question.
44:48
SPEAKER_03: I remember asking several different Christians this question, and then they all tried to come up with an answer.
44:54
SPEAKER_03: And then he came across a Christian who said, You know, I I don't know, but that doesn't change what I do know.
45:01
SPEAKER_03: And then he shared what he did know, and then Duane was just so taken back by that honesty that uh he said that was the pivoting um point for him becoming a oh for him personally, I thought you were meaning like something he said, but that was that's what struck him personally.
45:16
SPEAKER_06: That was so we should have a course on I don't know-ness.
45:21
SPEAKER_01: Surely I don't know.
45:22
SPEAKER_01: Well, I I mean that was my experience too when I first started going to church, you know, it was unwinding so much of my atheistic way of thinking that I'd I'd sit down with the pastor and I'd ask a question, and so often they were answering, they were giving me an answer to a question I wasn't asking because it was the answer that they knew.
45:41
SPEAKER_01: And they would sort of just go, Oh, well, that's kind of this question, and I memorized that answer, so let me give you this.
45:47
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, I this isn't a conversation, man.
45:49
SPEAKER_01: This is just it was so frustrating, and and truly, like the for me, it was Casey Jones, not the guy from the Ninja Turtles, but my first mentor, who, you know, he he was one of the first persons to just go, I don't know, that's a good question, but uh let me get back to you next week.
46:06
SPEAKER_01: And next week I'd sit down with him and he'd give me something, and even if it wasn't perfect, the sincerity and the willingness to look at at uh look at that conversation not as I'm gonna put a notch on my belt, but let me disciple this young man.
46:21
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's key is that evangelism and discipleship are not two separate things.
46:26
SPEAKER_01: They've always, throughout church history, been treated as one thing together.
46:30
SPEAKER_01: You preach the gospel and you don't hold back discipleship for when they're saved.
46:35
SPEAKER_01: You start discipleship.
46:36
SPEAKER_03: How long have you been a Christian now, Oscar?
46:38
SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm approaching 20 years.
46:41
SPEAKER_03: Are are atheists by and large asking the same questions that you were 20 years ago as they are today, you think?
46:48
SPEAKER_01: No, it's very different.
46:49
SPEAKER_01: How so?
46:50
SPEAKER_01: Uh it's very different because back then, well, one, when I was for the most part of when I was an atheist, it was it predates like pop culture atheism.
46:58
SPEAKER_01: So this predates Richard Dawkins being a New York Times bestseller, Christopher Hitchens, people don't realize that atheism was really put on the forefront of pop culture Christianity after 9-11.
47:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and so back then, when I was an atheist, it was it was more trying to the the questions being asked was like, can we can we leave Christianity behind?
47:24
SPEAKER_01: Is it okay if we just move forward without this?
47:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and it was really the questions about like evolution versus God.
47:32
SPEAKER_01: That was the questions being asked.
47:34
SPEAKER_06: Sounds like a good title for a document.
47:37
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
47:37
SPEAKER_01: But today atheists are asking different questions.
47:41
SPEAKER_01: Back then, it's like, does God exist?
47:43
SPEAKER_01: What happens after you die?
47:44
SPEAKER_01: Right now, it's is Christianity good for us?
47:48
SPEAKER_01: Is it is it like it's almost like we were we were fighting against, I say we as a former atheist, we are fighting against a Christianized nation where now atheists are now saying Christianity is what's wrong with the world.
48:02
SPEAKER_01: And so you can kind of move on without it.
48:04
SPEAKER_01: Not only is it does God actually exist, is that if he does exist, Christianity has failed.
48:09
SPEAKER_01: Which, of course, there's a whole different set of answers for that, right?
48:13
SPEAKER_01: But I I think it's a really good question because we should pay attention to the questions they're asking and not just continue to try that answer it the same way.
48:20
SPEAKER_03: I'm prepared for answers from questions 20 years ago, and they're not asking the same questions today, kind of like what you're referring to.
48:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's a very good one.
48:28
SPEAKER_06: So you're talking about intellectual atheists, uh, what an oxymoron.
48:31
SPEAKER_01: Truly.
48:32
SPEAKER_06: You know, the average guy at a local college doesn't ask the deeper questions that you're asking.
48:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:39
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
48:39
SPEAKER_01: I think I think culture is also, I think culture is asking those kind of questions too, though.
48:44
SPEAKER_01: Because again, like, you know, your average, your average non-believing woman 20 years ago was probably like, yeah, I don't, I don't know if God exists.
48:55
SPEAKER_01: But now your average non-believing woman is less focused on the existence of God and more on, doesn't Christianity oppress women?
49:06
SPEAKER_01: So now we have to give, if you're like, well, let me tell you why evolution is a falsity, they're like, I don't okay.
49:13
SPEAKER_01: I'm asking you, doesn't Christianity oppress women?
49:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know what I mean?
49:16
SPEAKER_01: It's just a different set of questions.
49:17
SPEAKER_05: Well, and it's a reminder of how we need to be in tune with the culture and what's happening and what's changing.
49:22
SPEAKER_05: And um, and what in the world?
49:27
SPEAKER_05: My phalanges.
49:29
SPEAKER_05: Those things still crack, Mark?
49:31
SPEAKER_06: Man.
49:31
SPEAKER_06: He's done that all his life.
49:33
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, where'd you get that from?
49:36
SPEAKER_06: Just it's not good to do that, Mark.
49:38
SPEAKER_06: God didn't create pain.
49:39
SPEAKER_06: He's saying like my fingers are getting it.
49:43
SPEAKER_06: You've ruined your body.
49:44
SPEAKER_05: Oh, how do you contort it like that, Mark?
49:47
SPEAKER_05: I don't even mean to do it, it just does it.
49:49
SPEAKER_05: Um, I was I was thinking about um, you know, the the dilemmas that the early believers faced because they didn't have like legal recourse.
50:03
SPEAKER_05: You know, it wasn't like they could go for the most part.
50:05
SPEAKER_05: I mean, Paul appealed to his Roman citizenship here or there, but but for the most part, you know, you're at the mercy of your oppressors.
50:12
SPEAKER_06: Sorry, wasn't that great when Paul said have them come get us?
50:16
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and he says, We're Romans.
50:18
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
50:19
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
50:19
SPEAKER_05: Well, we were just in Philippi, right?
50:21
SPEAKER_05: We were looking at the perhaps the the very cell that Paul could have been in.
50:24
SPEAKER_05: I mean, it's the prison in Philippi, and it's, you know, is it nice?
50:27
SPEAKER_05: Very likely.
50:28
SPEAKER_05: Air condition, everything.
50:30
SPEAKER_05: It's like the hyat.
50:31
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
50:31
SPEAKER_05: Um but they they didn't have that, you know.
50:34
SPEAKER_05: But they they did have the the one thing that I think they were more in tune with, and that was the reality that they had the spirit.
50:43
SPEAKER_05: Because remember in Acts 1, 8, after Jesus appeared to them, you know, before he ascended, he said, When the spirit comes upon you, you will be my witnesses.
50:53
SPEAKER_05: And there was there was a dependence on the spirit.
50:56
SPEAKER_05: I mean, you guys, you guys remember as well in Luke 12, Jesus said, Now when they bring you to synagogues and magistrates and authorities, do not worry about how or what you should answer or what you should say, for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.
51:11
SPEAKER_05: Like when he's talking about persecution, it was connected to the Spirit of God.
51:17
SPEAKER_05: And man, we we just well, I'm not gonna speak for you guys.
51:21
SPEAKER_05: I forget that.
51:22
SPEAKER_05: I totally forget like the importance of depending on the Spirit of God in my evangelism and dealing with hostilities and difficulties and struggles.
51:31
SPEAKER_05: Like, this isn't an impersonal force.
51:35
SPEAKER_03: Do you ever find yourself communing with God while you're sharing the gospel all the time, pleading for help is what I'm doing.
51:43
SPEAKER_05: Lord, give me wisdom, God.
51:44
SPEAKER_05: How do I answer this?
51:45
SPEAKER_03: You know, and it's also a great, you know, opportunity to when you go out with someone that when you're sharing, your friend is praying.
51:52
SPEAKER_03: And when your friend is sharing, you're praying.
51:55
SPEAKER_03: And when the person who you're talking to is talking to you, you're praying.
51:59
SPEAKER_03: Not just how can I shut this person up?
52:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right.
52:02
SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's not healthy, yeah, you know, necessarily, but Lord, just give get give the words.
52:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
52:08
SPEAKER_03: Or what do you want to do?
52:09
SPEAKER_03: Just cut through the nonsense that is that is happening right now.
52:13
SPEAKER_03: Just get them, Lord.
52:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, just get them.
52:15
SPEAKER_01: You know what was really cool is just before when we were at Cal State Fullerton for that event, I felt so incompetent before going up there.
52:24
SPEAKER_01: Like I was like, I am, I was with you three.
52:27
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you guys have been doing this so much longer than me.
52:29
SPEAKER_01: I've never done it in this format.
52:31
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
52:32
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm gonna bomb this.
52:33
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna get fired after this event.
52:35
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
52:36
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and so one, the dependency on prayer.
52:39
SPEAKER_01: But then the second thing is I was like, man, I'm not gonna, I'm not focused on the camera, I'm not focused on the crowd, I'm gonna focus on this conversation, I'm gonna treat it like a one-on-one.
52:48
SPEAKER_01: And what was really cool is when I was done, there was like a group of people that were like, Hey, can we talk to you?
52:53
SPEAKER_01: We were in line, we want to talk to you.
52:55
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, These people are gonna lambass me.
52:57
SPEAKER_01: You know, I they pulled me aside.
52:58
SPEAKER_01: There was like five of them, and they were just like, Man, thank you so much for being so compassionate.
53:05
SPEAKER_01: And we really, it was one of the the uh ladies who was an atheist, young lady.
53:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, she goes, I think her name was Virginia, but she goes, I really felt like you were talking to me and not the crowd, and I really appreciate it, and you gave me a lot to think about.
53:20
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Man, praise the Lord.
53:22
SPEAKER_01: But also to your point, I it had to take God making me feel incredibly incompetent to really get on my knees and pray and go, Lord, use me because I can't, I'm I'm gonna bomb.
53:36
SPEAKER_05: May we never leave that place.
53:38
SPEAKER_05: I'm terrified to leave that place.
53:40
SPEAKER_05: You know, one of the prayers that that I often pray when I'm nervous uh about whatever, an open air, an event speaking is Lord, please take away from me any unnecessary nervousness.
53:52
SPEAKER_05: Oh, that's really good.
53:53
SPEAKER_05: Because I I don't ever want to get to a place where I'm just like, yep, here we go, let's do it.
53:57
SPEAKER_05: I mean, I I've heard people say that, like, oh no, I don't get nervous.
54:00
SPEAKER_05: I'm like, well, I don't understand that.
54:03
SPEAKER_05: And I hope, and my prayer is just like, I hope you're not self-confident or like you know, self-sufficient, because I don't ever want to be that, you know.
54:11
SPEAKER_05: And what I do want to pray, honestly, my true desire is to pray, Lord, take every ounce of nervousness.
54:16
SPEAKER_05: I hate nervousness, it drives me nuts.
54:19
SPEAKER_05: But yet, any unnecessary, because whatever's necessary to keep me dependent, humble, broken, I need it.
54:26
SPEAKER_05: Because I'm terrified.
54:27
SPEAKER_05: I mean, Mark, I heard you reference it again when I think we were abroad, and that is like the people that we've seen who are apologists and open-air preachers, and and just man, I I'm serious, like I'm feeling a an emotion of sickness as I think about it.
54:44
SPEAKER_05: The pride and arrogance, the harshness, the mockery that they display when they're preaching the gospel.
54:50
SPEAKER_05: It's terrifying, you know.
54:51
SPEAKER_03: And I'm so jet lagged, I have no idea what you just said.
54:55
SPEAKER_03: Is it hitting?
54:56
SPEAKER_03: Is it hitting right now?
54:58
SPEAKER_03: It is.
54:59
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
55:00
SPEAKER_06: So Andre said at me.
55:02
SPEAKER_06: What was that?
55:02
SPEAKER_06: Andre said at me.
55:03
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
55:04
SPEAKER_06: So I I agree with you.
55:07
SPEAKER_05: And you're not even jet lagged.
55:08
SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
55:09
SPEAKER_05: No, I'm awake.
55:09
SPEAKER_05: Oh no, I think I'm catching it like a yawn.
55:11
SPEAKER_05: It's starting to hit me too right now.
55:13
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
55:14
SPEAKER_05: So it's just it's it's remembering, you know, that man, we we need the Lord.
55:21
SPEAKER_05: And Oscar, it was beautiful, you know, to see how the Lord used you, all you guys, like the different moments of of God moving.
55:28
SPEAKER_05: But I noticed that in particular of like your even the way that you like went up and shook the person's hand, that was an example to me that I've been trying to emulate, even when we were abroad.
55:37
SPEAKER_05: Like, wow, that that gives a person the sense, like, I care about you.
55:41
SPEAKER_05: You guys remember what CS at C.S.
55:43
SPEAKER_05: Lewis said?
55:43
SPEAKER_05: He said, man, he said, it's much easier for us to be concerned about humanity with a capital H than it is to be concerned about individual men and women.
55:54
SPEAKER_05: He said, Because when you generalize it, it's easy to just like, oh yeah, I love them.
55:59
SPEAKER_05: Those are people I love, they are people I care about.
56:02
SPEAKER_05: But what about him and her?
56:03
SPEAKER_05: Does that person feel like, like you said, they felt like you're speaking directly to them?
56:07
SPEAKER_05: Do they sense that?
56:09
SPEAKER_05: That like you're not about the cameras.
56:11
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah, we have cameras there.
56:13
SPEAKER_05: We want this to be filmed and for people to see the example.
56:15
SPEAKER_05: You're not about that, though.
56:16
SPEAKER_05: You're not about the the applause, the praise.
56:20
SPEAKER_05: I love you and I care, and nothing can compete with that.
56:23
SPEAKER_05: You you can't emulate or you can't fake authenticity.
56:28
SPEAKER_05: It's an oxymoron, it's a contradiction.
56:30
SPEAKER_05: You're authentic or you're not.
56:32
SPEAKER_05: You know.
56:33
SPEAKER_06: So what you're saying is seen often when you hear 50,000 people killed in an earthquake, you go, whoa, that's terrible.
56:40
SPEAKER_06: And then they show you one person trapped under a piece of concrete, and it just breaks your heart.
56:45
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
56:46
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it does.
56:47
SPEAKER_05: And um and we need to the the the area of prayer, like we're talking about like praying as you're sharing the gospel, but how often do we pray leading up to sharing the gospel?
56:59
SPEAKER_05: You know, like focused prayer.
57:01
SPEAKER_05: How often do we, you know, cry out to God after we're done, like to go over those instances where we struggled or we battled, or to, you know, to lace things with prayer and intercession and crying out to the Lord.
57:13
SPEAKER_06: I've uh I've been praying as I leave some people that won't come on camera at the local college, they just say no.
57:19
SPEAKER_06: So I share the gospel with them anyway.
57:20
SPEAKER_06: And there's one girl that I just my heart goes out to her, she had her hair coming right down across her face, and she was like hiding behind a bush and only one eye, and it had a f it had fear in that eye.
57:32
SPEAKER_06: And um, I share the gospel with her, and just it's just seeing so many like that.
57:37
SPEAKER_06: These uh kids, they're not kids, they're in their late teens, early adults, but they're they're living in in terror.
57:45
SPEAKER_06: They're in their own skin, it that breaks my heart.
57:48
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
57:49
SPEAKER_05: May we always be mindful of that.
57:51
SPEAKER_05: And you know, we often quote um you know first Peter three, but we we don't get it in its context.
57:57
SPEAKER_05: But even if you should suffer for righteousness' sake, you are blessed.
58:02
SPEAKER_05: And do not be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled, but sanctify the Lord God in your hearts.
58:08
SPEAKER_05: That's where we start quoting, right?
58:10
SPEAKER_05: But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you for a reason, a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear or gentleness and respect.
58:22
SPEAKER_05: But that's in the context of if you should suffer for righteousness.
58:25
SPEAKER_05: That's in the context of don't be afraid of their threats, don't be troubled.
58:30
SPEAKER_05: And I love that.
58:30
SPEAKER_05: To me, that's the climax.
58:32
SPEAKER_05: Don't be troubled.
58:34
SPEAKER_05: You're sharing the gospel, don't be troubled.
58:37
SPEAKER_06: The disciples said, uh, behold their threatenings, Lord.
58:40
SPEAKER_06: Remember that portion of scripture where they were threatening them?
58:43
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
58:43
SPEAKER_06: And they just went to look at the greatness of God rather than what was going on.
58:47
SPEAKER_05: I love that.
58:49
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so there we have it, guys.
58:51
SPEAKER_05: Um, well, what an edifying, encouraging.
58:53
SPEAKER_06: No, four minutes to go, Mrs.
58:55
SPEAKER_06: Jetlag.
58:56
SPEAKER_05: Nah, nah.
58:57
SPEAKER_03: I'm actually pretty amazed at just listening to you.
59:00
SPEAKER_03: What I'm hearing, it's like I'm in my algebra two calculus class or trade class.
59:04
SPEAKER_03: And it's just like wonk, woon, woon, woonk.
59:09
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
59:10
SPEAKER_05: Um Tozer said, we must face the fact that many today are seeking to avoid the reproach of the cross.
59:19
unknown: Wow.
59:19
SPEAKER_06: Tozer seems so solid.
59:22
SPEAKER_06: So many of his quotes are so good.
59:24
SPEAKER_01: Have you ever read his book on marriage?
59:26
SPEAKER_06: No.
59:27
SPEAKER_01: He didn't write one.
59:30
SPEAKER_06: Mention I said loved it.
59:32
SPEAKER_05: Mark was was Tozer um was Tozer the one who taught himself to read?
59:37
SPEAKER_05: Oh, I think.
59:38
SPEAKER_05: I think I think that I heard it was Tozer.
59:40
SPEAKER_06: What was his name?
59:41
SPEAKER_05: AW.
59:42
SPEAKER_05: AW is his name, AW.
59:43
SPEAKER_05: AW Rootbeer.
59:44
SPEAKER_05: His middle name was And.
59:47
SPEAKER_05: Paul Washer, if you're faithful to the gospel, the world will not applaud you.
59:51
SPEAKER_05: It will oppose you.
59:53
SPEAKER_05: So we have to we have to remember that and uh just seek to just to be humble, to be loving.
59:59
SPEAKER_05: I found that one of the most effective things you can say to someone is if I can be honest with you, I'm I'm terrified talking to you right now.
1:00:09
SPEAKER_05: If I can be honest with you, this is very uncomfortable and like uh unpleasant for me and undesirable.
1:00:19
SPEAKER_05: But man, the only reason I'm doing it is because I care.
1:00:21
SPEAKER_05: Like something about that breaks through versus how's that again?
1:00:29
SPEAKER_04: That is a new face.
1:00:30
SPEAKER_04: You just unlocked a new face.
1:00:32
SPEAKER_04: Once in a while, it just unlocks and it's like I claim it now.
1:00:36
SPEAKER_03: Can you lock it back up?
1:00:41
SPEAKER_04: Oh man.
1:00:42
SPEAKER_04: Well, there you have it, friends.
1:00:44
SPEAKER_05: We hope you've been edified as we have been.
1:00:46
SPEAKER_05: Don't forget the four question survey box.
1:00:48
SPEAKER_05: And as Oscar exhorted you, remember to like and subscribe and tell others.
1:00:53
SPEAKER_05: Is that what it was?
1:00:54
SPEAKER_05: Share, like, subscribe.
1:00:55
SPEAKER_05: All that good stuff.
1:00:56
SPEAKER_05: Comment, all that good stuff.
1:00:58
SPEAKER_05: And remember, podcast at livingwanders.com with your emails and good stuff and break comfort.
1:01:04
SPEAKER_05: Bono glasses.
1:01:05
SPEAKER_05: Bono.
1:01:06
SPEAKER_05: Thank you for joining us, friends.
1:01:08
SPEAKER_05: We'll see you here next time on the Living Waters podcast.
1:01:14
SPEAKER_05: Ooh, nice, Ray.
1:01:15
SPEAKER_04: Where we have no idea what we're doing.