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How can we force our message on the vulnerable? A Government case study | Maintaining Frame 178 · Honey Badger Radio

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Speaker 1: So how do I log into a Grock Allison.
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Speaker 2: Hello, everybody, welcome to Honeybager Radio. My name is Brian
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Speaker 2: with Allison, and this is maintaining frame number one seventy eight.
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Speaker 2: How can we force our message on the vulnerable? A
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Speaker 2: government case study? Yeah, sorry, Alice, you just started talking
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Speaker 2: as I switched scenes.
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Speaker 1: So my apologies. So essentially what this is is a
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Speaker 1: couple of days ago. I actually it was yesterday, brother,
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Speaker 1: It might have been. It doesn't matter. I was in
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Speaker 1: it as usual, discussing the sexual assault statistics that people
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Speaker 1: don't want to talk about, which is, of course, male
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Speaker 1: are female on male sexual assault and this particular organization,
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Speaker 1: the National Sexual Violence Resource Center, which sort of sounds
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Speaker 1: like it's government based, but apparently, according to its disclaimer,
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Speaker 1: the content on this website is provided for informational purposes only.
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Speaker 1: While some of the materials and blah blah, is this
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Speaker 1: maybe supported in part by federal grants. The views, findings, conclusions,
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Speaker 1: and recommendations expressed are solely those of authors. You're not
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Speaker 1: necessarily yeah, yeah, yeah, So I don't think this is
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Speaker 1: actually a government organization, although it is sort of portraying
1:13
Speaker 1: itself using the acronyms that are associated with a lot
1:17
Speaker 1: of the criminal and general population surveys of these issues,
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Speaker 1: I originally thought because they kept getting cited by GROC,
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Speaker 1: and I was like, well, is this a study like
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Speaker 1: a because you have the National Intimate Partner in Sexual
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Speaker 1: Finnce Survey that's put on by the CDC, which is
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Speaker 1: an actual study. And I was like, well, is this
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Speaker 1: a study? And I find out no, it's just a
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Speaker 1: clearinghouse for data. But as I delved deeper into it,
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Speaker 1: because I was actually having a conversation with GROC, and
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Speaker 1: the conversation I was having was how if feminism says
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Speaker 1: it's about equality but doesn't measure the men's side, how
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Speaker 1: can it say it's about equality?
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Speaker 2: Right?
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Speaker 1: And I was having this conversation, I was getting GROC
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Speaker 1: to estimate how much effort feminism puts into measuring the
2:02
Speaker 1: male side of the equation, because if you're going to
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Speaker 1: say that you know, X or Y or X is
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Speaker 1: always greater women's oppression is always greater than men's, then
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Speaker 1: you sort of have to measure men's side. And you, honestly,
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Speaker 1: if you're going to be a genuine and or you know,
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Speaker 1: set of organizations with integrity. You should probably measure both
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Speaker 1: sides with equal amount of rigor and be very transparent
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Speaker 1: about how you are determining how you're waiting each men's
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Speaker 1: issues versus a woman's issues, et cetera. So I asked
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Speaker 1: GROC how much effort does feminism put into understanding and
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Speaker 1: recognizing men's issues, and it came back with an astounding
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Speaker 1: number of ten to twenty percent. And I was looking
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Speaker 1: at this, and I was saying, is this I don't
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Speaker 1: think that the twenty percent of feminist funding goes to
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Speaker 1: analyzing men's issues. And I dug deeper in with GROC,
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Speaker 1: and I found out that it had lumped in and
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Speaker 1: initiatives for men to take responsibility for violence against women
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Speaker 1: as a men's issue, and I pointed out, please don't
3:10
Speaker 1: lump in initiatives to get men to take responsibility for
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Speaker 1: being perpetrators with initiatives that help men when they're victims
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Speaker 1: of domestic violence and sexual assault, et cetera. And then
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Speaker 1: it went back through and it gave me like five percent.
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Speaker 1: And I'm like looking at this, and I'm like, what
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Speaker 1: is this five percent? And I drilled down more into
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Speaker 1: this and I found this set of I guess procedures
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Speaker 1: or expectations. It's called the SAD, which is the SAD.
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Speaker 1: I do you have the there's a little bit of
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Speaker 1: a little bit of information on the Working with Male
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Speaker 1: Survivors of Sexual Violence page, and we can go through that.
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Speaker 2: Sexual assault demonstration initiative that's SAD. Yes, So what do
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Speaker 2: you what do you want me to display?
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Speaker 1: Okay, let's go through the Working with Male Survivors of
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Speaker 1: Sexual violence. This is one of the five percent that
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Speaker 1: GROC said that of feminist funding that is devoted to
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Speaker 1: male survivors. So I wanted to look through it because
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Speaker 1: it's really interesting and I think it's going to be
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Speaker 1: enlightening to you guys what they're actually doing with And
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Speaker 1: it's not just male sexual assault survivors. It is all
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Speaker 1: sexual assault survivors, but but it's particularly egregious when it
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Speaker 1: comes to male sexual assault survivors. So let's just take
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Speaker 1: a look. And incidentally, I got I ground Grock down
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Speaker 1: further by too about I think two percent, and then
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Speaker 1: I asked GROC, Okay, so this two percent is just
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Speaker 1: feminist initiatives, which means that they are helping male survivors
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Speaker 1: in the context of what they call a gendered narrative.
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Speaker 1: So in other words, the prior already isn't helping men
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Speaker 1: with these problems. The priority is making sure that these
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Speaker 1: problems are seen within a gendered context. So we all
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Speaker 1: know what the gender context is. Men have to take
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Speaker 1: unique responsibility for sexual violence investic assault because feminists theorize
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Speaker 1: their conjecture or allege that men use these things to
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Speaker 1: uphold patriarchy. It's going to be extremely difficult to hold
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Speaker 1: onto that ideological framework if we recognize that women are
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Speaker 1: equally likely to be sexually violent and engage in domestic violence,
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Speaker 1: because you know, how can patriarchy maintain its grip over
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Speaker 1: women if women are engaging in the very actions that
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Speaker 1: give patriarchy its grip towards men. So anyway, this is
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Speaker 1: their framework. And I got grocked down to about two percent,
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Speaker 1: which was, as we all know, bullshit. But at least
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Speaker 1: I can point out that spending two percent to measure
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Speaker 1: one side when you're when you're trying to declare that
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Speaker 1: the other side is greater, is disson And then I
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Speaker 1: finally got Grock to admit that feminism is a cult.
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Speaker 2: Okay, so what do you want? Right? So what are
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Speaker 2: we looking at what am I doing?
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Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, let's see what they have to say about
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Speaker 1: male survivors of sexual violence the National Sexual Violence Resource Center.
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Speaker 2: Okay, so working with male survivors of sexual violence. The
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Speaker 2: tools in this project will help you understand how male socialization,
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Speaker 2: so the way men are socialized impacts the stigma and
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Speaker 2: reaction to sexual violence. They will help you consider how
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Speaker 2: to reach and engage men who need healing from sexual violence.
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Speaker 2: They will help you map out potential partnerships in your
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Speaker 2: service area. Finally, they will give you guidance on creating
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Speaker 2: sexual assault services that meet the needs of male survivors.
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Speaker 1: Okay, that's what they say in their first paragraph. Sure,
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Speaker 1: but let's go in and just keep going down because
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Speaker 1: these are their various initiatives. Let's keep going down because
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Speaker 1: then we get into the meat sidey thing.
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Speaker 2: And also, for the record, I looked it up and
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Speaker 2: the National Sexual Violence Resource Center is not a government entity.
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Speaker 2: It's a nonprofit organization. But it's a division of another
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Speaker 2: organization called Respect Together that was found in the year
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Speaker 2: two thousand with initial funding from the Centers for Disease
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Speaker 2: Control and Prevention under the Violence Against Women Act. So
7:27
Speaker 2: the Violence Against Women Act is kind of like at
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Speaker 2: the bottom layer of this. So you could say that
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Speaker 2: if it turns out that this is going to be
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Speaker 2: just about women, I think it kind of comes that's
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Speaker 2: like the the well spring right of this. So just
7:43
Speaker 2: telling you guys, like where the connections are at, right.
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Speaker 2: So once again, that's The National Sexual Violence Resource Center
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Speaker 2: is a nonprofit that got founded in two thousand with
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Speaker 2: initial funding from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
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Speaker 2: under the Violence Against Women Act. It was part of
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Speaker 2: a thing called Respect Together, Respect one way. Yeah, respect
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Speaker 2: one way. Respect.
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Speaker 1: So essentially what this is is, oh, well, you know what,
8:11
Speaker 1: let's just let it speak for itself. Continue.
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Speaker 2: So Lessons from the Sexual Assault Demonstration Initiative on Male Survivors.
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Speaker 2: Programs that participated in the Sexual Assault Demonstration Initiative SAUDI
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Speaker 2: assessed how effective they were at serving various groups of survivors,
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Speaker 2: including men and boys. When programs rank groups in terms
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Speaker 2: of how well staff thought they were serving them, men
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Speaker 2: and boys regularly ranked at the bottom of all groups.
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Speaker 2: The SAUDI helped programs learn that sexual assault specific services
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Speaker 2: need to integrate trauma informed and anti oppression frameworks. Anti
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Speaker 2: oppression works okay, that address the unique and multi faceted
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Speaker 2: needs of many different survivors, including male survivors who had
8:55
Speaker 2: not been reached previously by their services, and to prioritize
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Speaker 2: skills such as active listening, empathy, building, rapport, empowerment, and collaboration.
9:05
Speaker 2: It's a lot of commy words as you dive into
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Speaker 2: exploring how to serve male survivors, your program must first
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Speaker 2: have a deep organizational identity as a sexual assault center
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Speaker 2: slash provider for survivors.
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Speaker 1: So they're targeting they're basically targeting organizations that have helped
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Speaker 1: survivors for a while. Let's just let's let's say this
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Speaker 1: what this is. This is a top down initiative to
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Speaker 1: target these organizations for pushing their propaganda. Their are their
9:31
Speaker 1: intersectionality cast system in which men are the universal scapegoat. There,
9:38
Speaker 1: they are the untouchables, they are the bottom cast. And
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Speaker 1: and you'll do you think that I'm you think I'm exaggerating. Well,
9:44
Speaker 1: we'll go into what the sadi? The Sadi?
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Speaker 2: This is just sort of the same. This is what
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Speaker 2: you need. Not sure where to start? Okay, so how
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Speaker 2: about this part? Why men?
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Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, let's go for Wyman.
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Speaker 2: What a question to ask why men.
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Speaker 1: I'm under attack, but the beast okay, what Jojo.
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Speaker 2: Is just sleeping.
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Speaker 1: He is the goodest of He's.
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Speaker 2: Meditating, he's charging his chi. So why men? In this project,
10:12
Speaker 2: we're focusing on improving services for male survivors of sexual violence. Well,
10:16
Speaker 2: at least we acknowledge them. A complicated topic in the
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Speaker 2: context of the women's movement. Michelle Dixon Wall, why even
10:23
Speaker 2: bring that up? Why even say that? Why? Why? Like
10:26
Speaker 2: you can just we're focusing on improving services for male
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Speaker 2: survivors of sexual violence end of sentence, But then they
10:32
Speaker 2: have to add a complicated topic in the context of
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Speaker 2: the women's movement.
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Speaker 1: Because it always has to take place within that context.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, what is he?
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Speaker 1: Why does it have to be a gender narrative? Why
10:43
Speaker 1: does there have to be a gender narrative around a
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Speaker 1: sexual assault? Why is that necessary? Why is that obligatory?
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Speaker 1: Why has nobody ever said, you know, maybe there isn't
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Speaker 1: and actually tested for that, because that would be the
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Speaker 1: null hypothesis for the feminist assertion that sexual assault is gendered.
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Speaker 1: But nobody tests for that because scientific grigor and integrity
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Speaker 1: are completely absent in these programs. Everything is ideological possession
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Speaker 1: and dogma yep.
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Speaker 2: All right. Michelle Dixon Wall laid out some thinking about
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Speaker 2: how to contextualize the need to talk about men's access
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Speaker 2: to services at sexual assault centers textuals. Yeah, to contextualize,
11:27
Speaker 2: we need to, like, let's prepare our minds for this
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Speaker 2: concept that's so crazy and wild and out there, like
11:35
Speaker 2: you mentioned and boys being the victims of sexual violence.
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Speaker 2: I mean, who knows, right, it's wild. It's just wild
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Speaker 2: and random. This is the.
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Speaker 1: Stuff that your taxpayers are going to tax dollars are
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Speaker 1: going to pushing ideological viewpoints on survivors of sexual assault.
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Speaker 1: You think that people would be like these people? Okay,
11:55
Speaker 1: you know what, let's just continue. I'm gonna know I've
11:57
Speaker 1: read ahead. I have spoilers.
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Speaker 2: Guys. Yeah yeah, but okay, there was no period after article,
12:02
Speaker 2: but I'm pretty sure that's the end of a sentence.
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Speaker 2: Let's unpack that men's access to violence against women's services.
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Speaker 2: Oh oh, maybe there's a summary here, but I'll open
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Speaker 2: this in a new tab if we need to look
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Speaker 2: at it. Dixon Wall argues that while shining a spotlight
12:15
Speaker 2: on the needs of male survivors, we can keep a
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Speaker 2: gender framework of sexual violence but also make it more nuanced.
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Speaker 2: Rigid gender expectations can hurt any of us in different ways,
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Speaker 2: including men who learn to keep harm bottled up inside
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Speaker 2: and not seek help. Never heard, never never heard that
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Speaker 2: before the lessons We've learned from the history of the
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Speaker 2: what did they literally write that the lessons We've learned
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Speaker 2: from the history of the sexual assault.
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Speaker 1: Movement quoted as a credible freakin' resource for male victims
12:49
Speaker 1: of sexual assault like this, this is considered credible. None
12:54
Speaker 1: of this is credible. These people do not put the
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Speaker 1: healing of male victims sexual assault before their ideological focus.
13:03
Speaker 1: And also the the the individuals involved in these organizations.
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Speaker 1: You know that they talk to YouTube about its algorithm
13:11
Speaker 1: and they deboost content like ours that calls them out
13:15
Speaker 1: for their circular reasoning like and and their their their
13:19
Speaker 1: lack of scientific integrity. And also the fact that you know,
13:23
Speaker 1: when you go into a program that is supposed to
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Speaker 1: be about a survivor of a traumamatic event overcoming that
13:30
Speaker 1: trauma and start pushing your rhetoric into it, that is unethical.
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Speaker 1: There's no reason to offer these to demand that these
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Speaker 1: services be within a context, gendered context or her story
13:47
Speaker 1: or feminism, but of course feminism into okay, let's let's
13:54
Speaker 1: and incidentally, they talk about, oh, it's STI it's stigmatized
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Speaker 1: for men to think of themselves as sexu. So let
13:59
Speaker 1: us let us make this a gendered issue. Let us
14:03
Speaker 1: continue to focus on this as something that happens to women,
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Speaker 1: and when it happens to men, it's because patriarchy is backfiring. Therefore,
14:11
Speaker 1: they sort of did it in themselves. To quote what
14:14
Speaker 1: is his name, the great Erotica writer Chris Tingle, when
14:21
Speaker 1: men get raped or when men get raped, it is
14:24
Speaker 1: them pounding their asses with their own asses.
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Speaker 2: Yep, pounding the ass with his own ass.
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Speaker 1: Yes, that is the feminist framework for male rape victims.
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Speaker 1: And now we've just gotten completely deboosted because I use
14:38
Speaker 1: the R word, which is worse.
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Speaker 2: Than any other story. All right, all right, So the
14:43
Speaker 2: lessons we've learned from the history of the anti sexual
14:46
Speaker 2: assault movements can be applied with nuance to people of
14:49
Speaker 2: all genders impacted by sexual violence. Notice when they say
14:53
Speaker 2: all genders, they're basically using everything they can to make
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Speaker 2: men the smallest, the smallest possible subset of that. That's
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Speaker 2: the purpose of this multi gendered thing. It's about excluding men.
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Speaker 2: The same limiting, rigid gender roles that normalize violence against
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Speaker 2: women and non binary people keep men from seeking services.
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Speaker 1: So because of men's violence against women and non binaries,
15:16
Speaker 1: they don't seek services because, you know, because the appropriate
15:19
Speaker 1: victims of violence are women in non binary So in
15:22
Speaker 1: order to seek services, these patriarchal male sexual assault survivors
15:27
Speaker 1: would have to conceive of themselves as being subject to
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Speaker 1: the very violence that they're supposed to inflict as patriarchal overlords.
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Speaker 1: Do they say this the actual male sexual assault survivors.
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Speaker 1: The reason why, you know, the real reason why you
15:41
Speaker 1: experience trauma is because you are being subjected to a
15:45
Speaker 1: powerlessness in your patriarchal overlord mindset, and you don't like
15:51
Speaker 1: it because it makes you like women and non binaries.
15:55
Speaker 1: Do you get that, sir? You think that you are
15:58
Speaker 1: traumatized by your forced sexual incident, but what you're really
16:03
Speaker 1: traumatized by is the fact that you've had a window
16:06
Speaker 1: into the experience of women and non binaries. Do they
16:10
Speaker 1: say that to these guys like that?
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Speaker 2: Is that?
16:14
Speaker 1: Why is? And Okay, I'm gonna stop getting irate. You'll
16:20
Speaker 1: notice that they did say that these programs, the Saddie
16:23
Speaker 1: program is ranked men rank it the lowest. Essentially, it
16:28
Speaker 1: also causes when you read the information about it, it's
16:32
Speaker 1: also caused counselors to quit programs as well, which is insane.
16:36
Speaker 1: So this program, which is for whatever reason, they're targeting
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Speaker 1: male sexual assault survivors with it, Male sexual assault survivors
16:46
Speaker 1: say they don't like it, and counselors who apparently work
16:50
Speaker 1: with male sexual assault survivors are just assault survivors in general,
16:54
Speaker 1: have quit because of this program. And it's like, and again,
16:58
Speaker 1: this is top. This is feminist organizations at the very
17:03
Speaker 1: top telling people who are trying to work with vulnerable
17:07
Speaker 1: individuals dealing with trauma what they need to say and
17:11
Speaker 1: do in order to push feminism. If you are not
17:15
Speaker 1: sick to your stomach by this, you're not a human being.
17:19
Speaker 1: Well I shouldn't say that, you would just become completely indifferent, Fine, whatever,
17:24
Speaker 1: But this is sickening. This is a sickening abuse of
17:28
Speaker 1: vulnerable people who come to an organization to try to
17:31
Speaker 1: get help, and instead they get propaganda shoved up every
17:35
Speaker 1: orifice and a re traumatizing frickin' everywhere feminism goes. It
17:40
Speaker 1: makes everything worse when it comes to survivors of these issues. Okay,
17:45
Speaker 1: let's keep going.
17:46
Speaker 2: Yep, I could just all right, Okay, so let's see.
17:51
Speaker 2: I just want to make sure I know where I
17:52
Speaker 2: left off. Men can play an important role in interrupting
17:55
Speaker 2: sexual harassment. What okay, let me start the wait, let's
17:59
Speaker 2: start over. We know that sexual violence impacts people of
18:02
Speaker 2: all genders and backgrounds. There are men who commit acts
18:05
Speaker 2: of sexual violence. Men can play an important role in
18:08
Speaker 2: interrupting sexual harassment and inappropriate behaviors. And in addition to
18:13
Speaker 2: these important truths, it is also vital that we recognize
18:16
Speaker 2: that men experience sexual violence and need healing from.
18:19
Speaker 1: The other men. Mostly that's what they can recognize.
18:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, like Joe Rogan, right, that's that's the only rape
18:27
Speaker 2: that he acknowledges is when it is like prison rape,
18:30
Speaker 2: and of course that cancels it out too. It's like, well,
18:33
Speaker 2: it's other men. So who cares to two wrongs equals
18:36
Speaker 2: to who cares? Or just one wrong against the wrong
18:40
Speaker 2: kind of person equals to who cares.
18:41
Speaker 1: This is in their segment on how to serve male
18:46
Speaker 1: victims of sexual assault. So to this Sadie program, when
18:50
Speaker 1: it infests an organization that's trying to help sexual assault survivors.
18:54
Speaker 1: It goes in and it says, we know that sexual
18:57
Speaker 1: violence impacts people of all genders and background. There are
19:00
Speaker 1: men who commit acts of sexual violence. Men can play
19:02
Speaker 1: an important role in interrupting sexual harassment and it so,
19:06
Speaker 1: how does that inform your therapy sessions with a sexual
19:11
Speaker 1: male sexual assault survivor? Are you like a little timmy,
19:14
Speaker 1: you've been you've been graped by your teacher since you
19:17
Speaker 1: were eleven? But can we discuss how you can interrupt
19:20
Speaker 1: sexual harassment of women? First?
19:24
Speaker 2: Like?
19:24
Speaker 1: How does this? And I wonder how the manipulation, like
19:29
Speaker 1: the situation where they MIA is all over me because
19:33
Speaker 1: I'm really a I'm not I'm I must be giving
19:36
Speaker 1: off a lot of adrenaline hormones. So she said, I
19:39
Speaker 1: need to I need to soothe you and destroy the
19:42
Speaker 1: thing that's upsetting you. Well, unfortunately you can't, little little voidcat,
19:46
Speaker 1: you cannot destroy the thing that's upsetting me because it
19:50
Speaker 1: is bullshit. Ideologically possessed.
19:54
Speaker 2: She wants she might be able to, Yeah, okay, maybe
19:59
Speaker 2: you could got like powers that have yet to be awakened.
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Speaker 1: Probably Okay, well all right, so this, let's just keep going,
20:08
Speaker 1: all right.
20:09
Speaker 2: Men can play an important role in interrupting sexual harassment
20:11
Speaker 2: and inappropriate behaviors. And in addition to these important truths,
20:14
Speaker 2: is also vital that we recognize that men experience sexual
20:17
Speaker 2: violence and need healing. In this project, we bring a
20:19
Speaker 2: gendered analysis of the impact of sexual violence to the
20:23
Speaker 2: understanding that male survivors have not been served. Well, we
20:26
Speaker 2: invite you to recognize the complicated identity of male survivor.
20:31
Speaker 2: Complicated guy, It's complicated, guys.
20:33
Speaker 1: It's complicated because just call.
20:34
Speaker 2: It what it is. No, no, no, no, that's a little
20:37
Speaker 2: dangerous for our brand.
20:38
Speaker 1: So it's inconsistent with feminist theorizing on these issues. So
20:42
Speaker 1: it's complicated and need nuance.
20:45
Speaker 2: We got to add a bunch of nuances, which is basically.
20:47
Speaker 1: Believing believing to contradictory things at once. One that men
20:53
Speaker 1: are under as victims of sexual assault, They are underserved
20:56
Speaker 1: by society, and they are subject to greater amounts of stigma,
21:00
Speaker 1: which is what all the findings show. Right, men are
21:05
Speaker 1: under report, they are not believed when they're when they
21:08
Speaker 1: tell as children, even as children, if they are sexually
21:11
Speaker 1: assaulted by women, services alienate them, and obviously they're obviously
21:17
Speaker 1: the uh what is it? The National Sexual Violence and
21:20
Speaker 1: Resource Center doesn't think that male sexual assaults survivors are
21:24
Speaker 1: alienated enough, so it's promoting this new initiative to essentially
21:30
Speaker 1: deal with sexual ass assault survivors within the context of
21:33
Speaker 1: feminist ideology, which doesn't can't. Feminist ideology is incompatible with
21:39
Speaker 1: recognizing the full extent of male sexual assault by women
21:44
Speaker 1: or the full extent of domestic violence by women. It's incompatible,
21:49
Speaker 1: and they have a huge invested motive in denying it
21:52
Speaker 1: and trying to recontextualize things. So essentially what they're saying
21:57
Speaker 1: is there are a bunch of foxes debated how chickens
22:01
Speaker 1: who want to remain alive are incompatible with the fox agenda.
22:06
Speaker 1: So how do we square this circle? Slick, Well, something's
22:11
Speaker 1: gotta give, and it ain't feminism. How is it that
22:15
Speaker 1: this shit can just continue and people aren't up in
22:19
Speaker 1: arms over it?
22:19
Speaker 2: Well, people aren't aware of it.
22:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, until until.
22:23
Speaker 2: It until they have to deal with it.
22:24
Speaker 1: Yes, until until they have to deal with it. And
22:27
Speaker 1: then they are like, well, men just commit suicide because
22:30
Speaker 1: they're weaker than women. And yet what happens to male
22:34
Speaker 1: sexual assault survivors that go to these resources and and
22:38
Speaker 1: they're like, okay, let's talk about how you are sexually
22:42
Speaker 1: violent against women. I mean, not you in particular because
22:45
Speaker 1: you were raped by a woman, but men in general
22:48
Speaker 1: need to take responsibility, like this is this is what
22:51
Speaker 1: men get?
22:51
Speaker 2: Is it?
22:53
Speaker 1: This is what men get? It's sick. Okay, let's keep going.
23:00
Speaker 2: That's right. We invite you to recognize the complicated identity
23:02
Speaker 2: of the male survivor, which is impacted by various additional
23:05
Speaker 2: identities and experiences that male survivors hold. We are also
23:09
Speaker 2: anchored in the primacy of trauma informed care. Every survivor
23:12
Speaker 2: has experienced trauma, and as advocates, we need to know
23:16
Speaker 2: and understand that how trauma manifests for survivors varies. What
23:20
Speaker 2: survivors are seeking is healing, and as a community based organization,
23:25
Speaker 2: your job is to provide opportunities for survivors to heal.
23:28
Speaker 1: What how very generous. We need to remember none of
23:31
Speaker 1: the victims here as we teach them that they're actually
23:34
Speaker 1: the aggressors are right.
23:35
Speaker 2: In twenty eight sorry, In twenty eighteen, NSVRC convened a
23:40
Speaker 2: roundtable to inform the development and direction of resource content
23:44
Speaker 2: on serving male survivors of sexual assault at rape crisis centers.
23:48
Speaker 2: The eighteen participants in the roundtable included representation from sexual
23:52
Speaker 2: assault centers, sexual assault coalitions, national technical assistance providers, and survivors.
23:59
Speaker 2: The needs in prior already from this roundtable are reflected
24:01
Speaker 2: in the resources developed and shared in this project. When
24:06
Speaker 2: you go back up.
24:07
Speaker 1: To who was at the roundtable, this is who round table.
24:11
Speaker 1: Eighteen people guys.
24:13
Speaker 2: Yeahea, eighteen participants, yeah.
24:15
Speaker 1: Eighteen participants. Yeah, okay, all right, let's keep going.
24:21
Speaker 2: All right, So this is like the resources, and it's
24:24
Speaker 2: basically like some lengths, some of them are not in English.
24:27
Speaker 1: So essentially what they've done is they've taken these resources
24:30
Speaker 1: which are meant to be used by people who talk
24:34
Speaker 1: to and help male survivors of sexual assault, and they
24:37
Speaker 1: have reframed it all in the ideological context of feminism,
24:42
Speaker 1: which is that men use sexual assault as a tool
24:45
Speaker 1: to keep women in control. Right, And how do you
24:48
Speaker 1: actually help male victims of sexual assault by women, in particular,
24:53
Speaker 1: in a framework in which you see men as using
24:57
Speaker 1: sexual assault to keep women under control. That's the question
25:01
Speaker 1: we have before the court. So let's see what they've got.
25:04
Speaker 1: And incidentally, we're going to be covering a bunch of
25:07
Speaker 1: organizations that have been influenced by this. I suggest you
25:11
Speaker 1: avoid them.
25:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So the resources we have assessing our capacities
25:20
Speaker 2: for assessing our capacity for serving male survivors of sexual
25:23
Speaker 2: violence assessment tools. Sexual assault advocates and rate crisis centers
25:28
Speaker 2: can use this self assessment tool to reflect on your
25:31
Speaker 2: current work serving men who have had unwanted sexual experiences.
25:35
Speaker 2: The tool offers reflection questions related to individual and organizational
25:39
Speaker 2: capacity to serve male survivors. Should I like open that link?
25:44
Speaker 1: No? No, okay, I mean it's this is a this
25:47
Speaker 1: is a rabbit hole. I'm sure we could find lots
25:49
Speaker 1: of ideologically motivated hatred and a sluggish crap that now
25:55
Speaker 1: male sexual assault survivors need to navigate. Let's look at
26:00
Speaker 1: how often are men sexually harassed or assaulted?
26:03
Speaker 2: Infographic? In this sympographic, we provide statistics on the prevalence
26:07
Speaker 2: of sexual violence for men. All right, So sharing that, kay? Pdf?
26:14
Speaker 2: So I gotta I should open up the pdf. I
26:16
Speaker 2: guess okay, all right, it's just like one thing. It
26:19
Speaker 2: says how often are men sexually harassed are assaulted. Forty
26:22
Speaker 2: three percent of men reported experiencing some form of sexual
26:26
Speaker 2: harassment and or assault in their lifetime. Many men do
26:30
Speaker 2: not identify or describe these experiences as rape or sexual violence,
26:34
Speaker 2: and some do not identify as a victim or survivor,
26:36
Speaker 2: while others do. Some men may describe their experiences as
26:39
Speaker 2: unwanted or abusive, the terms men use to describe these experiences.
26:43
Speaker 2: May say, this is.
26:45
Speaker 1: So far fairly reasonable, although lifetime prevalence of sex that
26:49
Speaker 1: is a dishonest. Lifetime prevalence of sexual violence undercounts male
26:54
Speaker 1: victims substantially because male men are verified through longitudinal studies
26:59
Speaker 1: they undercount sexual abuse when they're children by like a
27:03
Speaker 1: factor of four relative to women. So this is this
27:07
Speaker 1: is an undercount. Of course, it's honestly, it's not bad.
27:11
Speaker 1: This is not bad. I will give this a not bad,
27:14
Speaker 1: although I will point out that I asked Groc what
27:17
Speaker 1: is the likelihood And I showed Groc all of the
27:21
Speaker 1: studies that I've corelated about the rate of sexual victimization
27:26
Speaker 1: of men by women, and I asked Groc, what is
27:29
Speaker 1: the likelihood that feminists? The feminist conjecture that ninety percent
27:34
Speaker 1: of rapists are men is true in the context of
27:39
Speaker 1: the studies that I've shown you and Grok came back
27:42
Speaker 1: with zero. There is a zero probability based on if
27:47
Speaker 1: you look at the studies, there is a zero probability
27:50
Speaker 1: that a society in which ninety percent of the sexual
27:53
Speaker 1: aggressors were men would produce studies that show this kind
27:58
Speaker 1: of prevalence. Right, There is no way that ninety percent
28:03
Speaker 1: of the aggressors, the sexual assault, of the sexual violence
28:06
Speaker 1: is done by men, No way. And in fact, what
28:09
Speaker 1: we're showing, what we're seeing is that while more like
28:14
Speaker 1: fifty percent is done by women, by the time you
28:17
Speaker 1: get to convictions, ninety percent of the rapists are men.
28:22
Speaker 1: Why because men male victims. In this patriarchy that apparently
28:26
Speaker 1: uses rape and domestic violence to keep women in line,
28:31
Speaker 1: male victims are discriminated against on every step. Every step
28:35
Speaker 1: from frontline trauma counselors to police to embarrassed like to lawyers,
28:42
Speaker 1: to the legal system to the justice Every single step
28:45
Speaker 1: of the way is pushed back against male survivors getting
28:51
Speaker 1: justice when their abuser is a woman. That's what it shows.
28:56
Speaker 1: That's what it shows. That's what the ninety percent shows
28:59
Speaker 1: is just discriminate against male victims. And again, when you
29:03
Speaker 1: look at it that way, doesn't the whole thing about
29:07
Speaker 1: feminists wanting to see this in a gendered context increase
29:11
Speaker 1: the discrimination against men, the already existing discrimination, which incidentally
29:14
Speaker 1: they put in place as well. So they are constructing
29:18
Speaker 1: the gendered narrative. And then they say, while the gendered
29:21
Speaker 1: narrative is why men don't reveal, like they don't talk
29:24
Speaker 1: about it when they're constructing it. We had better attitudes
29:29
Speaker 1: towards male victims of sexual assault fifty years ago. We
29:32
Speaker 1: had more sane attitudes fifty years ago. It's getting worse
29:38
Speaker 1: because feminists are forcing these gendered narratives everywhere because they're
29:44
Speaker 1: money spinners.
29:46
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, Uh, you want me to go back
29:48
Speaker 2: to this. There's how we talk about working with male
29:52
Speaker 2: survivors of sexual assault, harassment, and abuse. I also think
29:57
Speaker 2: that's that study, that data there. It's possible that that's
30:01
Speaker 2: still skewed even more because like they're talking about sexual
30:04
Speaker 2: violence and all that, but like what's the context, Like
30:08
Speaker 2: how do we define sexual violence? Does that include female
30:11
Speaker 2: perpetrators like teachers or you know, like I don't know babysitters,
30:16
Speaker 2: like like female authority figures over children. Does that include,
30:21
Speaker 2: like I just wonder about that, because we're going.
30:23
Speaker 1: To go into does it include I don't.
30:26
Speaker 2: Know, like because because like, if you frame it in
30:30
Speaker 2: such a way that you know it's something that only
30:33
Speaker 2: men can do, then they're only gonna have the incidences
30:37
Speaker 2: of male sexual assault against other males, right, which is
30:43
Speaker 2: not giving you the full picture, and it's also contributing
30:46
Speaker 2: to the broader narrative of men as perpetrators. Mm hmm, So.
30:52
Speaker 1: Okay, well yes, but also I think that the best
30:56
Speaker 1: one to go into is actually the Saddie program, which
31:00
Speaker 1: I'd like to call the Sadistic program.
31:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's basically the first.
31:05
Speaker 1: Four letters of sadistic. So they deserve it, all right,
31:09
Speaker 1: So I did. I did send that through in If
31:13
Speaker 1: you click on the link that I sent you, it'll
31:16
Speaker 1: take you to the discussion which is in resources on
31:19
Speaker 1: our discord. And incidentally, if you would like to join
31:21
Speaker 1: us so you can see my resources and talk about
31:24
Speaker 1: it and we can help each other destroy this gigantic
31:28
Speaker 1: shit dome of lies, then go to Badger Nation down
31:32
Speaker 1: online and take part in the community. But yeah, this
31:34
Speaker 1: is a if you I can also oh, here, here
31:38
Speaker 1: we go. This is the Sadie Report Final. Now it's long,
31:42
Speaker 1: so you'll probably want to do something like do a
31:44
Speaker 1: search on oppression the oppression narrative. But before we get
31:48
Speaker 1: into that, I just want to point out looking deeper
31:50
Speaker 1: into the Saddi Stick sexual assault framework, we find oppression theory,
31:55
Speaker 1: including understand theory of tactics of oppression, microaggressions, and privileged
31:59
Speaker 1: power and culture. So essentially, they're going in and they're
32:03
Speaker 1: forcing people who are dealing with sexual assault survivors on
32:07
Speaker 1: a trauma based model. What does that mean, Well, you
32:09
Speaker 1: focus on the person in front of you and getting
32:11
Speaker 1: over their trauma or helping them overcome their trauma or
32:14
Speaker 1: develop coping skills to overcome their trauma. Right, So it's
32:19
Speaker 1: a person focused kind of therapy. They're going in and
32:23
Speaker 1: they're making these therapists reframe their work in the context
32:27
Speaker 1: of tactics of oppression, microaggressions, privilege, power, and culture. Now
32:32
Speaker 1: how does that affect First of all, that's going to
32:35
Speaker 1: affect male victims because there's going to be a push
32:38
Speaker 1: towards reframing them in the context of feminist conjecture as
32:46
Speaker 1: the aggressors. Right, we don't need to talk about your sexuals.
32:50
Speaker 1: Let's talk about all of the things you might be
32:53
Speaker 1: doing to women or your femophobia that has led you
32:57
Speaker 1: to regard sexual assault as female. Meanwhile, feminists are saying
33:01
Speaker 1: sexual assault is female. You know that kind of thing,
33:04
Speaker 1: that the impetus will be to treat female survivors not
33:07
Speaker 1: as individuals going through a trauma, but as victims of
33:12
Speaker 1: a wide spread conspiracy against women. So, in other words,
33:17
Speaker 1: feminist conjecture as applied to assisting sexual assault survivors is
33:23
Speaker 1: guaranteed secondary trauma because they're telling men you are actually
33:28
Speaker 1: the oppressor, and they're telling women, not only have you
33:31
Speaker 1: experienced this negative thing, but this negative thing is evidence
33:35
Speaker 1: of social targeting of you because you're a woman. What
33:40
Speaker 1: do you think that's going to do to people? And
33:42
Speaker 1: this is something that the government funds. It's insane, but yeah,
33:49
Speaker 1: let's say. Okay, So the next one is historical trauma,
33:52
Speaker 1: including exploring privilege report. I'm just reading from the report
33:57
Speaker 1: right now. You can look into opression theory. Just look
33:59
Speaker 1: up oppression theory to find what I'm reading right now.
34:02
Speaker 1: Historical trauma, including exploring privilege, practicing interrupting oppressive remarks and
34:07
Speaker 1: courageous conversations. Ah, here it is, are we Why why
34:13
Speaker 1: are you doing this to sexual assault survivors?
34:17
Speaker 2: Don't they have.
34:18
Speaker 1: Enough on their plate? Now they have to become foot
34:21
Speaker 1: soldiers for the feminists.
34:22
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the logical march through the institutions. Yeah, let
34:26
Speaker 2: me read this again. So oppression theory. So these are
34:29
Speaker 2: the this is like what the victims of sexual assault
34:33
Speaker 2: and sexual violence? This is like the cure is essentially
34:37
Speaker 2: to turn them into foot soldiers of feminist theory, including
34:42
Speaker 2: oppression theory, including understanding theory and tactics of oppression, microaggressions,
34:46
Speaker 2: and privilege, power and culture. How will that shake out
34:50
Speaker 2: if you're a man dealing with this historical trauma, including
34:54
Speaker 2: exploring privilege, practicing, interrupting oppressive remarks, what and courageous conversations?
35:01
Speaker 2: All right?
35:03
Speaker 1: This is this? How does this inform helping people overcome
35:06
Speaker 1: sexual assault trauma? It doesn't. It's basically just turning these
35:11
Speaker 1: people into foots ideological foot soldiers, including the people who
35:16
Speaker 1: are supposed to help them. All right, I'm going to
35:19
Speaker 1: open this up and I'll give you look up. Look
35:23
Speaker 1: up the term oppression and we'll look at the instances
35:27
Speaker 1: of oppression in this PDF. That'll probably be fruitful because
35:32
Speaker 1: that's what I did just to just to understand what
35:35
Speaker 1: the hell they were up to.
35:36
Speaker 2: Right, So first we have anti racism slash oppression stance.
35:40
Speaker 2: Facilitators of the change included openness to learning, openness to change,
35:44
Speaker 2: stability of leadership, empowering leadership, support for staff to mitigate
35:47
Speaker 2: secondary and organizational trauma, and incorporating anti racism oppression work.
35:53
Speaker 2: By the way, whenever you say whenever you see sentences
35:55
Speaker 2: and say doing the work in this context, it's COMI gobbledygook. Okay.
35:59
Speaker 2: Three anti racism oppression approach to serving survivors, which means
36:03
Speaker 2: some survivors get more help than others. That's usually what
36:07
Speaker 2: that means. Eight racial and ethnic demographics. Yes, male victims
36:11
Speaker 2: of sexual assault that are black. It has nothing to
36:14
Speaker 2: do with them being men, and it has everything to
36:16
Speaker 2: do with them being black, because being a man is
36:18
Speaker 2: the least important thing all of a sudden.
36:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just want to get in here, it says
36:23
Speaker 1: working with serving male survivors. So these top down organizations
36:28
Speaker 1: are telling people who have been serving male survivors in
36:31
Speaker 1: the trauma based model how to serve male survivors. Do
36:35
Speaker 1: you know why? Because they are trying to pretend like
36:40
Speaker 1: they know how to serve male survivors, which they don't.
36:43
Speaker 1: They only know how to retraumatize male survivors by recasting
36:48
Speaker 1: them as oppressors. So, but what they do this is
36:52
Speaker 1: tools like tools for radical Alynksky.
36:55
Speaker 2: Right, this is Liskinness, the radicals.
36:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, these are Linskiness. What they're doing is they're
37:01
Speaker 1: accusing these organizations of not serving male survivors properly, right,
37:07
Speaker 1: because then they can slip in how to basically serve
37:14
Speaker 1: them even worse, to slip in this framework. Oh, you're
37:17
Speaker 1: not serving male survivors properly because male survivors need to
37:23
Speaker 1: be served within a nuanced feminist context, and their identities
37:29
Speaker 1: are complex within the feminist context, and you're in order
37:34
Speaker 1: to serve a survivor, a male survivor of sexual assault
37:38
Speaker 1: in particular of a woman, you need to make his
37:41
Speaker 1: identity as a sexual assault survivor compatible with the feminist framework,
37:47
Speaker 1: and that is serving him, which you aren't doing. Now. Yeah,
37:52
Speaker 1: it's so fucking disreputable. It's just insane, and it drives
37:59
Speaker 1: me nuts. These these these these podcasts that we do
38:04
Speaker 1: on this incredibly important topic, get no traction. I don't
38:08
Speaker 1: know if you guys are like I don't want to
38:10
Speaker 1: listen to this, or if YouTube's like Nope, nobody's gonna
38:13
Speaker 1: listen to this, and nobody like this is this is
38:16
Speaker 1: the heart of it. Once men lose the narrative around
38:22
Speaker 1: their sexuality, that's it. You're done, You're cooked. Feminism is
38:27
Speaker 1: gonna bulldoze over your entire society until it destroys it.
38:31
Speaker 1: Wander off, and so we're on. We didn't do that.
38:34
Speaker 1: How does that happen? Okay, all right, keep going.
38:37
Speaker 2: Immigration. So again, immigration, oppression, culturally specific and contextually relevant planning.
38:46
Speaker 2: So all of this is intersectionality. Like if you just
38:48
Speaker 2: look at oppression, every time it comes up, it's in
38:51
Speaker 2: an intersectional context. And the thing about intersectionality is that
38:56
Speaker 2: that that basically always puts men at the bottom, no
38:59
Speaker 2: matter what, no matter what the other their other characteristics
39:02
Speaker 2: are that would normally put them a little higher up
39:04
Speaker 2: compared to like, you know, straight cisgendered, middle class or wealthy,
39:09
Speaker 2: affluent Western white men that have like you know, I
39:14
Speaker 2: guess they're they're actually like citizens of the country, they're in.
39:17
Speaker 2: Those guys are at the very very bottom. But men
39:19
Speaker 2: in general are the ones being denied. This and all
39:22
Speaker 2: the other identities or markers or characteristics are just used
39:27
Speaker 2: to make this appear as though it's trying to like
39:30
Speaker 2: correct some historical wrongs, but ultimately it doesn't serve anybody. Yeah,
39:34
Speaker 2: it doesn't even serve the people who are supposedly higher
39:37
Speaker 2: up because it's not framed in that way that it's
39:40
Speaker 2: meant to help them. So yeah, well, I mean it's
39:43
Speaker 2: you guys, get hit the like button for us, that'll
39:45
Speaker 2: be helpful.
39:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've hit the like button please. Like, this stuff
39:49
Speaker 1: is really important. I know nobody likes talking about it.
39:52
Speaker 1: Absolutely nobody likes talking about it. I understand that because,
39:55
Speaker 1: like when I look at this stuff, I'm like, like,
39:58
Speaker 1: what the fuck are you doing? And you're doing it
40:02
Speaker 1: to male victims of sexual self of all people, like
40:05
Speaker 1: the most marginalized people on the fucking planet, and you're
40:07
Speaker 1: doing this to them. Take responsibility, But how the system
40:11
Speaker 1: empowers you as a man and a male ex victim
40:14
Speaker 1: of sexualist, Like, what the fuck are you doing?
40:18
Speaker 2: What are you doing?
40:19
Speaker 1: What is this rank? Insanity? This rank, this absolute careless
40:25
Speaker 1: disregard for your fellow human, Like, oh, what am I
40:28
Speaker 1: talking about? Money? All right? So, but the other what
40:32
Speaker 1: I wanted to point out. All right, it's okay, avoidcat,
40:35
Speaker 1: I'm fine, right, I know if it were up to you,
40:39
Speaker 1: the world would be a better place because everything that
40:41
Speaker 1: angers me would disappear into the void. Maybe that wouldn't
40:44
Speaker 1: make the world a better yeah, the cryptid's eyes, this
40:49
Speaker 1: nonsense would be at least.
40:53
Speaker 2: Should I go through the rest here?
40:55
Speaker 1: I was going to talk about intersectionality. Yes, intersectionality is
40:58
Speaker 1: essentially removing victimhood from men. That's it, That's all it does.
41:02
Speaker 1: And it puts them in the cast of always being
41:06
Speaker 1: seen in terms of what they do for others rather
41:09
Speaker 1: than what is done to them. That's what intersectionality does.
41:12
Speaker 1: Turns them into scapegoat, turns them to blame. And it
41:15
Speaker 1: also means that they are the most powerful or perceived
41:19
Speaker 1: to be the most powerful actors in any particular system,
41:21
Speaker 1: which some men really like. They like that, which is
41:24
Speaker 1: why they hate me talking about this stuff. I've met
41:27
Speaker 1: guys like that too. But this is like intersectionality is basically,
41:32
Speaker 1: let's enforce traditional gender roles in the face of obvious
41:38
Speaker 1: male disadvantage because we're gonna reframe all male disadvantage in
41:43
Speaker 1: terms of things other than being male, right, just to
41:48
Speaker 1: reaffirm that men are actors and women are acted upon.
41:52
Speaker 1: And then feminism says, where do these traditional gender roles
41:56
Speaker 1: that discriminate against male victims of anything come from from you?
42:01
Speaker 1: From intersectionality, from your moral caste system? They come from you?
42:06
Speaker 1: And then they blame patriarchy because patriarchy can't actually defend
42:10
Speaker 1: itself against what feminism says it does. Have you noticed
42:14
Speaker 1: that patriarchy never mounts the defense so powerful, yet never
42:19
Speaker 1: defends itself against any accusations at all? Ever? Okay, all right.
42:26
Speaker 2: Jojo snoring? I hope he doesn't hear. Oh he stopped.
42:29
Speaker 2: He's a wait now he was having a dream. I think,
42:32
Speaker 2: all right? So should I keep going through the oppression
42:34
Speaker 2: thing or should I put a different search term in here?
42:37
Speaker 1: No, just keep going through the depression thing.
42:39
Speaker 2: Let's just say, right, oppression and sexual violence. So what's
42:42
Speaker 2: the context of this. The impact of the learning exchanges
42:46
Speaker 2: on the capacity of the sites to enhance their sexual
42:48
Speaker 2: assault services was seen most profoundly because of the learning
42:52
Speaker 2: exchange on building cultures of trauma informed care. This three
42:56
Speaker 2: day learning exchange co facilitated by Tiambey Wallace and Nina
43:01
Speaker 2: just Jusef or Yusef covered Okay, oppression and sexual violence.
43:06
Speaker 2: So I think they're bringing in like it sounds like
43:10
Speaker 2: this is more intersectionality.
43:12
Speaker 1: So yeah.
43:15
Speaker 2: As an example of how a shiftboard active listening and
43:18
Speaker 2: trauma informed approaches and existing services can transform those services
43:22
Speaker 2: is seen in one staff member's description of how their
43:24
Speaker 2: counseling services have changed. We have come to see the
43:28
Speaker 2: work as a much broader effort around oppressions and violence
43:32
Speaker 2: rather than merely violence against women. This has changed the
43:36
Speaker 2: way staff describes services and has opened the door to
43:39
Speaker 2: conversations in counseling sessions that might have been overlooked before.
43:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, violence against like, violence against women, and violence against
43:50
Speaker 1: all of these subcategories of man. Yeah, like, and they
43:55
Speaker 1: think that this is an improvement. Men are still the scapegoat,
43:58
Speaker 1: but you know, like they can let send in a
44:00
Speaker 1: bit if if they're disabled or black or I don't know, gay, Well,
44:06
Speaker 1: there's still the you know, gay men are the straight
44:08
Speaker 1: men of gay people.
44:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, How gay men are the straight people
44:13
Speaker 2: of gay people.
44:14
Speaker 1: Yep, Okay, let's keep going.
44:18
Speaker 2: All right, though, consequently survivors are experiencing greater support within
44:22
Speaker 2: a holistic framework. For example, they discuss how sexual violence
44:25
Speaker 2: is experience across the lifespan, how coping skills develop a
44:27
Speaker 2: different ages, how personhood has developed through learned sexualization. This
44:32
Speaker 2: shift was needed for us to really become a dual
44:34
Speaker 2: program and to raise the bar of our sexual assault services.
44:37
Speaker 2: It requires our staff to develop a unique set of
44:39
Speaker 2: skills for being sexual assault advocates apart from the skills
44:42
Speaker 2: of a domestic violence advocate. For the skills look similar,
44:45
Speaker 2: but in practice they feel very different.
44:47
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, no, keep going.
44:49
Speaker 2: I'm should I look for another word?
44:50
Speaker 1: Just keep going with the next paragraph, all right.
44:53
Speaker 2: Despite the diversity of programs, there was a recurring theme
44:55
Speaker 2: when talking about barriers to engaging in active listening and
44:58
Speaker 2: trauma informed response. Screening protocols and intake forms were repeatedly
45:03
Speaker 2: named as working against listening to survivors and allowing them
45:06
Speaker 2: to take the lead on what they want to share.
45:09
Speaker 2: Staff saw the problems early in the SADI process. We
45:12
Speaker 2: act like we need to form a work, We need
45:15
Speaker 2: a form to work with sexual assault survivors. We train
45:19
Speaker 2: staff and volunteers to the form, not to the individual
45:22
Speaker 2: sitting in front of them or on the other end
45:24
Speaker 2: of the phone line. Our forms and intake protocols really
45:27
Speaker 2: get in the way. They are the opposite of active
45:29
Speaker 2: listening and trauma informed. But how do we get away
45:32
Speaker 2: from them? Is that the bit you wanted me to read?
45:34
Speaker 1: Yes, So the Sadi process. The people who are involved
45:38
Speaker 1: in actually helping sexual assault survivors are pushing back against
45:42
Speaker 1: the Sadi process because it turns everybody into a checkbox
45:45
Speaker 1: on a form right instead of an individual congratulations, And
45:52
Speaker 1: it does so because it's trying it. Literally, what it's
45:55
Speaker 1: trying to do is square the circle with male survivors.
45:58
Speaker 1: So it wants the staff, I'm guessing it wants the
46:01
Speaker 1: staff not to treat a male survivor as a man,
46:06
Speaker 1: but a male survivor as a disabled person, a black person,
46:10
Speaker 1: a gay person, a trans man, whatever, but not actually
46:14
Speaker 1: recognize that there are problems unique to men, especially when
46:19
Speaker 1: they are victims of sexual assault. Because this patriarchy, which
46:24
Speaker 1: never defends itself from any of the feminist allegations, apparently
46:28
Speaker 1: is much more lenient towards women's sexual assault towards men
46:33
Speaker 1: than the reverse. Despite the fact that every society in
46:37
Speaker 1: history did not let its surfs and peasants use the
46:40
Speaker 1: tools that it used to maintain the social hierarchy. So
46:44
Speaker 1: lords in the past wouldn't let serfs and peasants have swords.
46:47
Speaker 1: Apparently this patriarchy takes swords away from men and gives
46:52
Speaker 1: them to women and says, use them as you will.
46:55
Speaker 1: Men are a sexual resource for you. This is ground
46:58
Speaker 1: zero for the absolute disintegration of female feminist ideology. This
47:05
Speaker 1: that's why they're here, and that's why they're sneaking in
47:08
Speaker 1: and getting their tentacles in and saying, use the form,
47:11
Speaker 1: use the form, remember your cast system, remember that men
47:16
Speaker 1: are actually the problem. Okay, just keep going.
47:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got a super chat from Brown Guidgin for
47:24
Speaker 2: five dollars. Thank you Brown Guidin and says I have
47:27
Speaker 2: to go to work, but I wanted to show some love.
47:29
Speaker 2: Thank you, appreciate it.
47:33
Speaker 1: Before. Huh have we heard from Brown Guidgin before, so welcome.
47:37
Speaker 2: If I feel like maybe that sounds oh no, no, I
47:41
Speaker 2: was thinking about guidging Goomba. That was the guy that
47:43
Speaker 2: used to watch us back in the day. I don't know, welcome.
47:47
Speaker 2: I guess maybe he has, but yeah, appreciate you joining us.
47:52
Speaker 2: So all right, let's see should I I'll go to
47:58
Speaker 2: the next line here, so eleven? Uh yeah, so more
48:02
Speaker 2: every time I see oppression, it just comes up in
48:05
Speaker 2: the context.
48:06
Speaker 1: Continue reading with the last one.
48:09
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, all right. Consequently, the three of the sites
48:15
Speaker 2: prioritized reviewing and changing their forms and intake protocols. Exemplifying
48:20
Speaker 2: this work are the changes Crime Victim Services in the
48:24
Speaker 2: Kila River Indian community made into their intake form. Theirs
48:29
Speaker 2: were what.
48:31
Speaker 1: As half the sites, Yeah, changed it, Okay, keep going.
48:36
Speaker 2: Their prior forms were more akin to what might be
48:38
Speaker 2: seen in a criminal report and included detailed information about
48:41
Speaker 2: the perpetrator assault and survivor's own behaviors and demeanor. Putting
48:46
Speaker 2: the needs of survivors first and thinking about what it
48:48
Speaker 2: was like for survivors answering those questions, staff at Crime
48:52
Speaker 2: Victim Services discarded those original forms and started from scratch.
48:56
Speaker 2: The goals were too better protect survivor confidence, reality, emphasize
49:01
Speaker 2: building relationships with survivors, listening to their stories and affirming
49:04
Speaker 2: their experiences. Eliminate implicit judgments and interpretations, reduce.
49:10
Speaker 1: The wait, wait, I was incorrect. So essentially these fact
49:14
Speaker 1: based forms, you got half of them, got rid of
49:17
Speaker 1: them to focus on something else. Well, they're not going
49:20
Speaker 1: to get very very accurate statistics. Let's go to the
49:23
Speaker 1: next instance of press.
49:24
Speaker 2: That's why they're affirming, right, Yeah, so this is effectiveness.
49:29
Speaker 2: Effectiveness of specific services. Referrals, crisis, legal, counseling, ongoing well
49:34
Speaker 2: being services were rated for the perceived effectiveness for serving
49:40
Speaker 2: specific groups of survivors. These ratings reflect a more nuanced
49:43
Speaker 2: view of services and notable increases and perceived effectiveness for
49:47
Speaker 2: all groups of survivors. Increases range from differences and ratings
49:51
Speaker 2: of one point one to zero point one. The groups
49:55
Speaker 2: for which staff saw their effectiveness increasing the most were
49:59
Speaker 2: for serving men and boys, transgender survivors, and gay slash
50:03
Speaker 2: lesbian slash bisexual survivors. Those increases may be attributed to wait,
50:09
Speaker 2: what but there are transgender survivors that are men biologically,
50:15
Speaker 2: and there are gay and bisexual men as well, but
50:18
Speaker 2: they're like treating them as separate categories. See that's like
50:22
Speaker 2: another way that I am.
50:24
Speaker 1: Who established that these these interventions benefited men. That's the
50:29
Speaker 1: question here.
50:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're just shrinking down that demographic though, because they
50:36
Speaker 2: end up falling into That's what I'm saying, like with
50:38
Speaker 2: the intersectionality, right, Like if they broke it down, if
50:41
Speaker 2: they have a category for men and boys, and then
50:43
Speaker 2: they have a category for gays, and they have a
50:47
Speaker 2: category for bisexuals, and they have a category for transgender,
50:51
Speaker 2: then all of those other categories will necessarily include men,
50:56
Speaker 2: I mean, like the transgender maybe biological men. So that
51:00
Speaker 2: makes the men category smaller, you see what I mean.
51:05
Speaker 2: Like if they made a category for undocumented migrant men,
51:09
Speaker 2: or black men or Latino men, then they can treat
51:12
Speaker 2: it as a separate category from the one that's just
51:14
Speaker 2: called men. I don't know if that's what they're doing,
51:16
Speaker 2: but that's like the sense I get. I think it's
51:18
Speaker 2: weird that they're talking about gay survivors separate from men
51:23
Speaker 2: and boys. These increases may be attributed to the training
51:26
Speaker 2: aspect of the SADI that emphasize understanding the specific needs
51:30
Speaker 2: of survivors and the ways that racism and oppression can
51:33
Speaker 2: impact survivors in different ways because of how trauma intersects
51:37
Speaker 2: with other identities and experiences. In addition to specific trainings
51:41
Speaker 2: on serving male and here this is again listen to this,
51:45
Speaker 2: listen to this and think about it. Okay. In addition
51:47
Speaker 2: to specific trainings on serving male LGBTQ, Native American and
51:54
Speaker 2: teen survivors, the needs of different survivors and anti racism
51:58
Speaker 2: slash oppression perspectives were a component of most training. Whereas
52:02
Speaker 2: prior to the SADI staff at these programs tended to
52:06
Speaker 2: approach serving the survivors or all survivors the same way,
52:10
Speaker 2: by the end of the SAUDI they understood that different
52:13
Speaker 2: needs survivors may have and were more prepared to respond
52:17
Speaker 2: to those needs. So they literally added these other intersectional
52:21
Speaker 2: identities because they didn't like the fact that everybody was
52:24
Speaker 2: treated the same.
52:25
Speaker 1: At first, at an individual trauma based level.
52:29
Speaker 2: Yeah.
52:29
Speaker 1: And also, this is the oppression narrative. So what's being
52:33
Speaker 1: added is men are oppressors. Everybody else is oppressed. That's
52:37
Speaker 1: what's being added. Okay. So the services were also rated
52:41
Speaker 1: for the perceived effect for serving specific groups of survivors.
52:45
Speaker 1: The question is like, what does this specifically, How does
52:48
Speaker 1: this specifically inform the intervention with male survivors, because without
52:53
Speaker 1: any information, the only thing that this adds is making
52:58
Speaker 1: male survivors into oppressors in their narrative. Okay, and if
53:02
Speaker 1: they're not doing that, then why are they saying, well,
53:05
Speaker 1: we're teaching this narrative, but we're just not doing it
53:08
Speaker 1: for male survivors because on some level we know that's
53:11
Speaker 1: morally reprehensible, Like what what are they actually doing? So
53:15
Speaker 1: when they say these ratings reflect a more nuanced view
53:18
Speaker 1: of services, see effectiveness for all groups of survivors. Increases
53:22
Speaker 1: range from differences and ratings of one point one to
53:26
Speaker 1: zero point one. That is nnuscule. The groups for which
53:31
Speaker 1: staff saw their effectiveness increasing most was for serving men
53:34
Speaker 1: and boys, transgenderous survivors, and gay, lesbian, bisexual survivors. All right,
53:38
Speaker 1: so staff thought they were more effective. And if you
53:42
Speaker 1: actually look at the stats effectiveness of specific services, like
53:48
Speaker 1: the only one that actually increased was counseling and this
53:51
Speaker 1: is this is it, and it increased marginally supposedly, And
53:56
Speaker 1: how much of the of the effect of that increases
53:59
Speaker 1: these people realize that they have to say, oh, yeah, increase,
54:03
Speaker 1: So in terms of referrals decreased, crisis decreased, legal, decreased, ongoing, decreased, medical, decreased,
54:11
Speaker 1: well being, decreased, effectiveness of specific services decreased. Most of
54:17
Speaker 1: them decreased as a result of this intervention. What a
54:21
Speaker 1: surprise except for counseling. Why well, that could be simply
54:26
Speaker 1: these counselors saying, well, we have to say it's good
54:29
Speaker 1: somehow because that's what they want to hear. Could also
54:31
Speaker 1: be the effect of feminist counselors being emboldened to start
54:35
Speaker 1: start engaging engaging in secondary trauma of male survivors. This
54:40
Speaker 1: is gross. Yeah, yeah, all right. So effectiveness of services
54:47
Speaker 1: to specific groups says that boys and men, according to
54:51
Speaker 1: the counselors. I believe this is according to the counselors,
54:54
Speaker 1: boys and men were more served the groups of which
54:57
Speaker 1: staff saw their effectiveness increasing. The staff are saying, oh, yeah,
55:01
Speaker 1: we're we're better at serving boys and men because you're
55:05
Speaker 1: telling them what now, what is.
55:07
Speaker 2: It your privilege?
55:10
Speaker 1: And that's what you're telling them. The staff are saying,
55:14
Speaker 1: we're serving them better now by.
55:16
Speaker 2: Doing It's like they're basically saying that they're more useful
55:21
Speaker 2: to them.
55:21
Speaker 1: Yes, I guess, like, but here's the thing. Remember when
55:25
Speaker 1: we originally read the report on this from the National
55:30
Speaker 1: Sexual Violence Resource Center, the staff say that this has
55:35
Speaker 1: increased their ability to serve men and boys. The men
55:38
Speaker 1: and boys say no, there so if we go with
55:41
Speaker 1: what the men and boys saying, which I don't even
55:43
Speaker 1: know why they ask, because the men and boys are
55:46
Speaker 1: their scapegrowth group, what do they They don't genuinely care
55:49
Speaker 1: what they think, especially since they've declared this success. Because
55:53
Speaker 1: the staff are saying, oh, yeah, we serve them better, right,
55:57
Speaker 1: and the men and boys are saying, no, we don't
56:00
Speaker 1: like this, but who cares? Right, we know what's best
56:04
Speaker 1: for them, and what's best for men and boys to
56:06
Speaker 1: be reframed and the actors and the Grand Pageant of life.
56:10
Speaker 1: You know that in the moment, these these boys, these
56:13
Speaker 1: men and boys might perceive that they might actually be
56:16
Speaker 1: victims of women or acted upon by women. No, we
56:20
Speaker 1: need to reframe that. We know what they need. I
56:23
Speaker 1: mean that alone is completely disreputable. The fact that boys
56:27
Speaker 1: and men are saying, no, this isn't helping, and these
56:30
Speaker 1: these people are going well, but the staff say it is,
56:33
Speaker 1: and we say it is, so shut the fuck up.
56:36
Speaker 1: Who's who? Who are you to say how you should
56:39
Speaker 1: be served when you're a victim of sexual violence and
56:42
Speaker 1: we are counseling through your you through your trauma. Who
56:45
Speaker 1: are you to say, man, how you should be served?
56:49
Speaker 1: How dare you think that you should be centered in
56:52
Speaker 1: your own trauma counseling? How oppressive? How patriarchal? How privileged? Okay,
57:01
Speaker 1: let me see if there's anything for Oh yeah, there
57:03
Speaker 1: there was actually staff that was pushing back a bit. Okay,
57:10
Speaker 1: so we can go to table seven, staff turnover at
57:14
Speaker 1: SADDY Sites.
57:17
Speaker 2: How what page is that?
57:19
Speaker 1: It's uh it's page eighty eight, okay, eighty eight. Yuh
57:27
Speaker 1: table seven? Can you search on table seven? Search on
57:30
Speaker 1: table seven?
57:31
Speaker 2: All right, I'll just search table seven. Yep, all right,
57:35
Speaker 2: Staff turnover at sad I Sites page ninety two here,
57:40
Speaker 2: so oh okay, all right, No, that's fine. I guess
57:43
Speaker 2: that's because the numbered page the number page might be
57:47
Speaker 2: eighty eight. Yeah it is, but it's further up than that. Okay.
57:52
Speaker 2: So minimum staff side, like is it or we're just
57:55
Speaker 2: we're going to read this anti Yeah, go ahead.
57:58
Speaker 1: So staff sign is percentage left by the end of
58:03
Speaker 1: SADIE So, uh seven seventy seventy five percent. Oh okay,
58:10
Speaker 1: So this is the amount of staff that's left by
58:12
Speaker 1: the end of the SADDI intervention. So the middle so
58:16
Speaker 1: the most. The place that saw the most staff lost
58:20
Speaker 1: thirty three percent of its staff. The place that's ore,
58:24
Speaker 1: the place that saw the least amount of or the
58:27
Speaker 1: mean of staff lost was twenty three percent. And there
58:32
Speaker 1: was I guess one place that didn't see any staff lost,
58:36
Speaker 1: or one place that saw four percent up, one place
58:40
Speaker 1: that saw twelve percent down. So basically, this, this freaking
58:44
Speaker 1: intervention loses staff overall, overall lost to staff at least
58:49
Speaker 1: that's my interpretation from this.
58:51
Speaker 2: That's what it looks like. Yeah, me and the mean
58:53
Speaker 2: and lost B two.
58:55
Speaker 1: And if you go back to the next the next paragraph,
58:58
Speaker 1: just read staff turnover. So staff are rebelling against this.
59:02
Speaker 1: If there are increases, I wonder who what ideology those
59:07
Speaker 1: increases represent Who those increases are representatives of? Okay, okay.
59:12
Speaker 2: Staff turnover has long been talked about as a problem
59:15
Speaker 2: in the fields of sexual and domestic violent services. The
59:19
Speaker 2: SADI represented an opportunity to systematically track staff turnover across
59:24
Speaker 2: multiple years. As shown in Table one, the rates of
59:27
Speaker 2: turnover were shockingly high for all SADDY sites across the
59:30
Speaker 2: four years of their involvement with the SADI. In the
59:34
Speaker 2: best case, two thirds of staff who were with their
59:37
Speaker 2: program at the start of the SADDY had left the
59:39
Speaker 2: program by the end of the SADDY. For one site,
59:42
Speaker 2: none of the staff who were with their program at
59:44
Speaker 2: the start of the SADDI had left the program by
59:48
Speaker 2: the end of the SATTY. For one site, Oh, I'm sorry.
59:51
Speaker 2: For one site, none of the staff who were with
59:52
Speaker 2: the program at the start of the SATTI were still
59:54
Speaker 2: there at the end. The turnover was in fact higher
59:58
Speaker 2: than what these numbers represent, because in many cases there
1:00:01
Speaker 2: were multiple changes in staff for a single position during
1:00:04
Speaker 2: the course of the SATI. These numbers only took only
1:00:08
Speaker 2: look at the beginning and end, not the multiple changes
1:00:10
Speaker 2: that occurred in between. This level of turnover poses many
1:00:14
Speaker 2: challenges for dual slash multi service programs. Simply maintaining services
1:00:19
Speaker 2: at the current level is a formidable task when there
1:00:21
Speaker 2: are frequently empty positions having to be covered and new
1:00:26
Speaker 2: staff having to be trained. Within that context, there is
1:00:29
Speaker 2: little room for thinking about how to enhance sexual assault
1:00:32
Speaker 2: services enhanced with this ideology, Yes, when that work is
1:00:37
Speaker 2: taken on as it was in the SADI. Maintaining continuity
1:00:41
Speaker 2: of planning, cultivating program wide awareness and of buy into
1:00:45
Speaker 2: the efforts and implementing plans can seem to be nearly impossible.
1:00:49
Speaker 2: This makes what the Sadi sites achieved all the more remarkable.
1:00:53
Speaker 2: So like that's flight failure.
1:00:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, success, this is a success. Guys. Now, we
1:00:59
Speaker 1: don't for sure if it was the Saddie program that
1:01:02
Speaker 1: caused this incredible rate of turnover, like one hundred percent
1:01:06
Speaker 1: gone over the four years of the Saddi intervention. I mean,
1:01:09
Speaker 1: we'd have to look at years before the Saddie, But
1:01:11
Speaker 1: I imagine that this turnover isn't normal. But you know,
1:01:17
Speaker 1: that's just showing the success of the programs somehow.
1:01:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess people just weren't ready where they just
1:01:25
Speaker 2: it was too cutting edge or something.
1:01:27
Speaker 1: The next section that I wanted to look at was
1:01:31
Speaker 1: when the staff actually talked about the problems. But that's
1:01:35
Speaker 1: gonna give me a moment to actually figure out how
1:01:37
Speaker 1: to how to find that. I think it would be
1:01:41
Speaker 1: the jewel I misspelled that, Okay, looking.
1:01:45
Speaker 2: To see here? All right? What am I? What am
1:01:48
Speaker 2: I looking up? I could search it? What's the term individually.
1:01:51
Speaker 1: I'm trying to find? Okay, So here we go. It's
1:01:54
Speaker 1: I think it's the it is if you go if
1:01:56
Speaker 1: you go up up through the it's the forty ninth
1:01:59
Speaker 1: incident of individual. But you probably want to go up
1:02:02
Speaker 1: through the incidences rather than down so you can find Oh, actually,
1:02:05
Speaker 1: let me just give you the name number. Uh, it
1:02:08
Speaker 1: is eighty nine labeled and ninety three in the A.
1:02:13
Speaker 2: That makes sense, ninety three.
1:02:16
Speaker 1: Okay, So all right, okay, So there was thosething that's
1:02:21
Speaker 1: demonstrated all sites.
1:02:23
Speaker 2: Oh it was like literally right here. Yeah.
1:02:25
Speaker 1: Actually, let's just continue with the anti racism oppression stance.
1:02:29
Speaker 1: All right, continue to those paragraphs. So we're going to
1:02:32
Speaker 1: discover how they made these people's lives worse.
1:02:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, anti racism slash oppressing stance. A basic tenet of
1:02:39
Speaker 2: the SADDY was that effective sexual assault services cannot happen
1:02:43
Speaker 2: if there is not an understanding and direct response to
1:02:46
Speaker 2: racism and oppression. So we can't help you until we
1:02:50
Speaker 2: acknowledge the elephant in the room that we made up
1:02:53
Speaker 2: called oppression and systemic systems and institutional institutions and all
1:02:58
Speaker 2: of that. Yeah, we apply our systemic systems are moral.
1:03:05
Speaker 1: You would think that if somebody presents with a traumatic
1:03:08
Speaker 1: experienced sexual assault, that the focus would be on helping
1:03:13
Speaker 1: them live a full life and overcome their trauma. No,
1:03:17
Speaker 1: the focus should be on teaching them feminist moral caste
1:03:22
Speaker 1: system and where they stand.
1:03:23
Speaker 2: Okay, all right to that. To the extent that programs
1:03:26
Speaker 2: do not endorse and enact an anti racism slash oppression approach,
1:03:31
Speaker 2: they will be limited in their capacity to serve survivors
1:03:34
Speaker 2: from marginalized groups. Not men. Among the SADI sites, most
1:03:39
Speaker 2: of them ascribe to an anti racism slash oppression language
1:03:43
Speaker 2: from the beginning of the Sadi. However, their understanding of
1:03:46
Speaker 2: what that means vary greatly. Even more, staff capacity and
1:03:50
Speaker 2: willingness to allow themselves and their work to be shaped
1:03:53
Speaker 2: by that understanding range from active engagement to passive or
1:03:58
Speaker 2: active resistance. All right, I have, you know, like a
1:04:01
Speaker 2: moral center and they're like, this doesn't seem.
1:04:03
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, okay. Their capacity to serve survivors from marginalized groups.
1:04:09
Speaker 1: Let's just go through the marginalization of male victims of
1:04:12
Speaker 1: sexual assault. When they're children, they are less likely as
1:04:18
Speaker 1: adults if they are sexually abused. Verified as children, they
1:04:21
Speaker 1: are four times less likely to reveal this to anyone.
1:04:26
Speaker 1: As adults, it takes longer for them to operationalize their
1:04:30
Speaker 1: experiences of abuse right, surveys actively discriminate against them. Some
1:04:36
Speaker 1: surveys don't even capture the extent of male sexual abuse
1:04:39
Speaker 1: because we as a society are just in the process
1:04:43
Speaker 1: of starting to recognize it as a criminal problem. Okay,
1:04:46
Speaker 1: they are not served by police. In fact, they're more
1:04:49
Speaker 1: likely to be the laughed out of a police department
1:04:51
Speaker 1: than actually have their situation treated with seriousness. Although if
1:04:56
Speaker 1: you are experiencing that, do go because you never know.
1:05:01
Speaker 1: In the future the woman who raped you might attempt
1:05:03
Speaker 1: to get child support. This could probably help your case,
1:05:06
Speaker 1: so please please do get police reports for these instants.
1:05:11
Speaker 1: Generally are getting better about this, at least the police
1:05:14
Speaker 1: are right. So they experience discrimination on a society wide
1:05:19
Speaker 1: level because there's no narratives around. Especially male victims of
1:05:23
Speaker 1: female sexual assaulters, they don't have equivalent services because of
1:05:27
Speaker 1: feminist initiatives that are trying to keep rape and sexually
1:05:30
Speaker 1: assault female only or female mostly right. They when these
1:05:36
Speaker 1: organizations try to intervene, they intervene to turn these men
1:05:41
Speaker 1: and boys into ciphers for their ideology, so they're not
1:05:45
Speaker 1: seeing them as centering them, they're seeing them as a
1:05:48
Speaker 1: tool to an end centering their trauma and centering the
1:05:52
Speaker 1: recovery of their trauma. They see them as a tool
1:05:54
Speaker 1: to end every step and are more marginalized. Men and
1:05:57
Speaker 1: boys are more marginalized as sexual assault survivors. They're more
1:06:00
Speaker 1: marginalized and even being able to recognize it because of
1:06:03
Speaker 1: the narratives around sexual assault that are perpetrated not by
1:06:07
Speaker 1: patriarchy but by feminism itself and by women. By the way,
1:06:12
Speaker 1: don't blame it on men. They are discriminated against in
1:06:15
Speaker 1: terms of services. They aren't believed when they talk about
1:06:18
Speaker 1: it right. They don't really have services, at least services
1:06:22
Speaker 1: that aren't free of ideological possession right that want to
1:06:25
Speaker 1: reframe them as the problem. They are discriminated against in
1:06:28
Speaker 1: survey instruments that don't properly capture the sexual assault of
1:06:33
Speaker 1: men and boys, or they euphemistically frame it as something
1:06:37
Speaker 1: other than rape when it is rape right, or they
1:06:41
Speaker 1: use they prioritize using female survey ors, which guarantees an
1:06:46
Speaker 1: undercount of male victims, or they do something which is
1:06:49
Speaker 1: what the Intimate Partner Sexual Violence Survey did. Recently, they've
1:06:52
Speaker 1: started to do this weird scattershot thing where they just
1:06:56
Speaker 1: are like, oh, how many people live in your house. Okay,
1:07:00
Speaker 1: so what would be their ages? Oh? I see, so
1:07:02
Speaker 1: forty forty five, twelve and two. Okay, have you ever
1:07:07
Speaker 1: been bought fucked by a monster?
1:07:10
Speaker 2: Like?
1:07:10
Speaker 1: The people are like what? Because before they would start
1:07:14
Speaker 1: with like like just just like little questions to start
1:07:18
Speaker 1: to get people to understand what is being what they're wanting,
1:07:22
Speaker 1: like have you ever experienced unwanted touching?
1:07:25
Speaker 2: Have you?
1:07:26
Speaker 1: And then they would go from there. Now they're dropping
1:07:30
Speaker 1: rape questions right in the middle of wherever, and people
1:07:34
Speaker 1: are just not only are men not disclosing for obvious reasons,
1:07:39
Speaker 1: there are people who are bouncing from these surveys. So
1:07:42
Speaker 1: they changed their methodology to do that, and now they're
1:07:45
Speaker 1: finding less and less male victims. I wonder why it's
1:07:50
Speaker 1: because in order to capture sexual assault victimization, you can't
1:07:55
Speaker 1: just drop these questions in the middle of other questions, right,
1:08:00
Speaker 1: You have to create a dialogue because people don't feel
1:08:03
Speaker 1: comfortable responding to them just you socking them in the
1:08:08
Speaker 1: fucking mug with it and then responding to it. Nobody
1:08:11
Speaker 1: feels comfortable. Women don't feel comfortable with it. Men especially
1:08:14
Speaker 1: don't feel comfortable with it. And I'm guessing that they
1:08:17
Speaker 1: change the methodology because they know that men especially don't
1:08:20
Speaker 1: feel comfortable with it. So men discriminated against in the
1:08:24
Speaker 1: narratives around sexual assault in law, in the surveys, in policy,
1:08:30
Speaker 1: in services, and now you're coming with to me with
1:08:33
Speaker 1: this bullshit about how marginalized groups, which I guarantee your
1:08:39
Speaker 1: ideology does not consider men to be part of, at
1:08:42
Speaker 1: how they have to be served. I think it would
1:08:44
Speaker 1: be actually more more reasonable for these people to be
1:08:48
Speaker 1: taught about all of the marginalization of male victims of
1:08:51
Speaker 1: sexual assault, not the intersectional moral caste system that doesn't
1:08:57
Speaker 1: recognize that the most marginalized victims of sexual asault are
1:09:00
Speaker 1: men and boys. Okay, ran Over, I took you on
1:09:07
Speaker 1: a bit of a squirrel ride there.
1:09:09
Speaker 2: That's all right, all right? So should I keep going?
1:09:11
Speaker 2: All right? Believing that believing that anti racism and oppression
1:09:17
Speaker 2: work is integral to serving survivors of sexual violence. The
1:09:21
Speaker 2: SADI Technical Assistance Team began training sites on these issues
1:09:24
Speaker 2: from the first Learning Exchange and Oppression and Trauma. That
1:09:28
Speaker 2: training covered oppression theory, including understanding theory and tactics of oppression, microaggressions,
1:09:34
Speaker 2: and privileged power and culture. Historical trauma, including exploring privilege,
1:09:39
Speaker 2: practicing interrupting oppressive remarks and courageous conversations. Intersections of sexual
1:09:45
Speaker 2: violence and oppression, including rape as a tool of and
1:09:48
Speaker 2: a result of oppression, and culturally specific barriers. Impact of
1:09:53
Speaker 2: oppression on healing, including analysis of program's readiness to respond
1:09:58
Speaker 2: to marginalized group So, okay, let me just finish this.
1:10:03
Speaker 2: There was openness demonstrated by all sites at the training.
1:10:06
Speaker 2: Indicators included sites sharing encounters with racism in their communities
1:10:10
Speaker 2: and asking for feedback on how they handled those encounters.
1:10:14
Speaker 2: Acknowledgments of the need to weave anti racism slash oppression
1:10:17
Speaker 2: work into all work. Endorsement of the idea that sexual
1:10:20
Speaker 2: violence is a form of oppression that is related to
1:10:23
Speaker 2: other oppressions. Open expressions of dissatisfaction with staff members's own programs,
1:10:28
Speaker 2: lacking diverse representation, and struggling with how to make a
1:10:31
Speaker 2: commitment to diversity. Real engagement from all sites with the
1:10:37
Speaker 2: training discussions and exercises, High levels of engagement across sites
1:10:41
Speaker 2: informally outside of the training discussions and exercises. Final sharing
1:10:46
Speaker 2: on what participants were taking back to their programs, including
1:10:49
Speaker 2: better understanding the layers of oppression, new tools to respond
1:10:53
Speaker 2: to oppression, stretching outside of one's comfort zone critical role
1:10:57
Speaker 2: of anti oppression work ways to engage in subverse of
1:11:00
Speaker 2: action for positive change, and the need to work on
1:11:03
Speaker 2: individuals and programs' own internalized oppression.
1:11:07
Speaker 1: Can you understand why there was such a freaking high turnover?
1:11:12
Speaker 1: And the thing is that we don't we don't have
1:11:14
Speaker 1: anything to compare it to, although this seems to be
1:11:16
Speaker 1: appallingly high. So they're going into a set of services
1:11:22
Speaker 1: that already probably is difficult to keep staff right, and
1:11:26
Speaker 1: they're making everything freaking worse.
1:11:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, because they're not actually taught that they the agenda
1:11:33
Speaker 2: seems to me has nothing to do with helping victims
1:11:36
Speaker 2: of sexual assault and rich has nothing to do with it. It's
1:11:40
Speaker 2: it's a vehicle to push this ship. That's it. That's
1:11:44
Speaker 2: what it is. They're gonna they're gonna take these people
1:11:46
Speaker 2: who are traumatized, they're not gonna help them, and they're
1:11:48
Speaker 2: gonna turn them into activists for their cause. That's it.
1:11:51
Speaker 2: That's what that that that's what this is like. I
1:11:54
Speaker 2: don't see, I don't that's all. That's what I see.
1:11:56
Speaker 2: And they're gonna turn them into activist. And you know what,
1:11:59
Speaker 2: broken people are much easier to mold in this way.
1:12:03
Speaker 2: So you take somebody traumatized by an experience looking for help,
1:12:08
Speaker 2: and they go to these people and they're like, we're
1:12:10
Speaker 2: gonna we're gonna give you a purpose. They're not gonna
1:12:13
Speaker 2: help them. In fact, if they're boys and men, they're
1:12:15
Speaker 2: gonna be worse off because they're gonna be the subject of,
1:12:19
Speaker 2: you know, learning that they're the problem while also finding
1:12:23
Speaker 2: that they're only their only way to repent is to
1:12:26
Speaker 2: join their cult. Yeah, I mean that's you know, well.
1:12:29
Speaker 1: They've they've just gone through an experience that sort of
1:12:32
Speaker 1: strips away their human value, and now they're gonna say, well,
1:12:35
Speaker 1: little Timmy, you know how you can get that back.
1:12:38
Speaker 1: You can become a foot soldier for the ideology. And
1:12:42
Speaker 1: this is allowed. And the funny thing is is that
1:12:44
Speaker 1: the staff turnover at these sites is almost spartening.
1:12:47
Speaker 2: It's almost Yeah, it means that people are like that
1:12:49
Speaker 2: sounds like bullshit to me, that.
1:12:51
Speaker 1: Sounds like bullshit. There's there are people who are working
1:12:53
Speaker 1: with actual sexual assault survivors who are rejecting this because
1:12:58
Speaker 1: they know it's harmful. They know it's psychotic and sick,
1:13:05
Speaker 1: and they probably this is colonialism, this is feminism, being like,
1:13:09
Speaker 1: you got a nice sexual assault survivor center. There be
1:13:13
Speaker 1: a shame if we called you a bunch of sexists.
1:13:16
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And it says here, let me see where
1:13:20
Speaker 2: was it? I thought it was ninety two? It's extortion,
1:13:25
Speaker 2: and they tell you what they're doing. They tell you
1:13:27
Speaker 2: what they're doing. Ninety three, let me see, yeah, yeah
1:13:32
Speaker 2: here it is no wait, yes, so this this bit
1:13:35
Speaker 2: right here, as you know that they are open about
1:13:38
Speaker 2: what they're doing. Final sharing on what participants were taking
1:13:41
Speaker 2: back to their programs, including better understanding the layers of oppression,
1:13:46
Speaker 2: new tools to respond to oppression, stretching outside of one's
1:13:50
Speaker 2: comfort zone, critical role of anti oppression, work, ways to
1:13:54
Speaker 2: engage in subversive action for positive change, and the need
1:13:59
Speaker 2: to work on individuals and program's own internalized oppression. So
1:14:03
Speaker 2: they are they are openly telling us that they are
1:14:06
Speaker 2: showing that they are engaging in subversive action to positive change.
1:14:12
Speaker 1: This is a struggle session which they are afflicting on
1:14:16
Speaker 1: victims of sexual assault.
1:14:19
Speaker 2: Okay, yep.
1:14:21
Speaker 1: At no point do these people ever sit back and say,
1:14:23
Speaker 1: are we the baddies like the trauma Okay, services for
1:14:29
Speaker 1: victims of sexual assault is not where you push your ideology, right,
1:14:38
Speaker 1: that is not appropriate. And the fact that you are
1:14:42
Speaker 1: pushing your ideology and you are centering your ideology over
1:14:46
Speaker 1: an individual framework of trauma healing, you are the baddy.
1:14:52
Speaker 1: You are the baddy. Yes, okay, I want you to go.
1:14:56
Speaker 1: Let's see where it's go to. Keep going, keep reading
1:14:59
Speaker 1: after that last one, because it's going to start talking
1:15:01
Speaker 1: about the effectiveness of this program, which you know it
1:15:05
Speaker 1: might actually be heartening to read about. No, no, no, don't
1:15:10
Speaker 1: go any further.
1:15:11
Speaker 2: Go back to where you are from here.
1:15:13
Speaker 1: Yeah. Even however, even with the high level.
1:15:15
Speaker 2: However, even with the high level of engagement endorsement of
1:15:18
Speaker 2: the ideas, when all sites were asked to turn to
1:15:20
Speaker 2: their own plans for enhancing sexual assault services and to
1:15:24
Speaker 2: identify ways to incorporate the ideas and commitments to anti
1:15:28
Speaker 2: racism slash oppression work into their change plans and services,
1:15:32
Speaker 2: the discussions quickly slowed down and became much more vague
1:15:36
Speaker 2: than when the discussions were about responding to racism and
1:15:39
Speaker 2: impression outside the programs.
1:15:41
Speaker 1: So they were trying to get these people to force
1:15:44
Speaker 1: this shit into their programs, and then suddenly you get
1:15:47
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of evasive language. Sure to like Humphreys
1:15:50
Speaker 1: in yes, Minister, when he doesn't want to do something,
1:15:53
Speaker 1: He's like, in the fullness of time, would consider our
1:15:56
Speaker 1: options to regard the possibility of a committee looking into
1:16:02
Speaker 1: the issue of So you can imagine these sexual assault
1:16:05
Speaker 1: services are like, okay, we can talk about but not
1:16:07
Speaker 1: in the context of our client therapist relationship. And they're
1:16:12
Speaker 1: just trying to get these thugs off the scent, because
1:16:16
Speaker 1: that's what this is. This is thuggery. This is ideological thuggery.
1:16:20
Speaker 1: They're going in and they're forcing these people to abide
1:16:23
Speaker 1: by their ideological restrictions in their therapies, and these people
1:16:28
Speaker 1: are resisting it because I guess some psychologists still understand
1:16:34
Speaker 1: the concept of do no harm, yea, and they realize
1:16:37
Speaker 1: that this is harm. All right, let's keep going, all right,
1:16:41
Speaker 1: just keep reading.
1:16:42
Speaker 2: Three of the sites continue to openly work on enacting
1:16:45
Speaker 2: their anti racism slash oppression commitments commitments. Examples of how
1:16:50
Speaker 2: sites enacted these commitments included replicating with staff the exercises
1:16:54
Speaker 2: and discussions about oppression they had at the learning exchange
1:16:58
Speaker 2: on oppression and trauma, exploring the specific nature of historical
1:17:02
Speaker 2: trauma and oppression in the different cultural communities served by
1:17:06
Speaker 2: the program, building models of practice that are specifically grounded
1:17:10
Speaker 2: in the values and practices of the cultural communities served
1:17:13
Speaker 2: by the program, as a consequence of realizing that culturally
1:17:16
Speaker 2: specific models of services largely do not exist, committing to
1:17:20
Speaker 2: creating them. However, as the SADDI progressed, the other three
1:17:26
Speaker 2: sites demonstrated passive and or active resistance to technical assistance providers,
1:17:31
Speaker 2: encouraging them to look more closely and self critically at
1:17:34
Speaker 2: their individual and organizational capacity to serve marginalized communities. Sometimes
1:17:40
Speaker 2: the resistance was clearly stated, such as when staff at
1:17:43
Speaker 2: one site said, why should we emphasize culturally specific services?
1:17:48
Speaker 2: We just work with individual survivors. More often, it was
1:17:51
Speaker 2: expressed through behaviors such as actively reaching out to and
1:17:55
Speaker 2: investing in bilingual services for the local Latin community. Latin
1:18:00
Speaker 2: with an at Latin at community. Are we trying this again, guys,
1:18:03
Speaker 2: stop while overlooking the needs of the local African American community.
1:18:08
Speaker 2: But they speak English? Do you need to get like
1:18:10
Speaker 2: an Abonis guy on there to be like yo? Fam
1:18:13
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Oh my god, this fucking website silencing
1:18:17
Speaker 2: women and men of color during staff discussions men of color,
1:18:20
Speaker 2: not men, just like the okay, only sending staff who
1:18:24
Speaker 2: identifies people of color to the learning exchange.
1:18:28
Speaker 1: What we're seeing is these individuals are not complying. So
1:18:31
Speaker 1: now they're going to be accused by the party of
1:18:35
Speaker 1: being you know, anti party.
1:18:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're going to become labeled problematic. Only sending staff
1:18:42
Speaker 2: who identify as people of color to the learning exchange
1:18:46
Speaker 2: and on oppression and trauma, but no other learning exchanges,
1:18:49
Speaker 2: or never sending people of color to the learning exchanges,
1:18:53
Speaker 2: excluding people of color from their own internal change teams,
1:18:57
Speaker 2: segregated segregated teams, apparently denying that leadership existed among communities
1:19:02
Speaker 2: of color in their local areas, despite clear evidence of
1:19:06
Speaker 2: such leadership, refusing to meet with service providers from nearby
1:19:11
Speaker 2: communities of color because it was inconvenient to do so,
1:19:14
Speaker 2: stating that anti racism slash oppression frameworks were not relevant
1:19:18
Speaker 2: to their communities. It's not dismissing the experiences of staff
1:19:22
Speaker 2: from culturally specific savvy scites overt statements that reflected stereotypes
1:19:27
Speaker 2: and prejudices against communities of color. We're gonna have a
1:19:32
Speaker 2: chicken and waffle night at the local facility. Do you
1:19:36
Speaker 2: guys want some?
1:19:36
Speaker 3: Hell?
1:19:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, like me some chicken and waffles. Problematic can't have
1:19:41
Speaker 2: even if you like I like that stuff. But okay,
1:19:44
Speaker 2: all right, do you want to say anything to that?
1:19:46
Speaker 2: Like I'm dying inside.
1:19:48
Speaker 1: I just I'm just like half of these programs just
1:19:52
Speaker 1: engaged in passive and active resistance against this colonialization. Good
1:19:57
Speaker 1: on you, Good on you. I wonder if those were
1:19:59
Speaker 1: the ones that didn't it didn't experience as much of
1:20:02
Speaker 1: a of a staff turnover, right, But the thing is
1:20:05
Speaker 1: that they said that three sites experienced a huge amount
1:20:08
Speaker 1: of staff turnover and three sites didn't. I wonder if
1:20:11
Speaker 1: the three sites that told them to go pound sand
1:20:14
Speaker 1: were the ones that didn't experience as much staff turnover.
1:20:16
Speaker 1: And again, these are colonialists shaking down. These are this
1:20:21
Speaker 1: is the mob shaking down sexual assaults survivor organizations. They're
1:20:27
Speaker 1: shaking them down. They're like, you got some clout, deliver
1:20:32
Speaker 1: it or we'll call you a bunch of problematic organizations.
1:20:37
Speaker 1: You'll lose some federal funding. Give us that clout. Yeah,
1:20:41
Speaker 1: make sure those those those raped people they they learn
1:20:45
Speaker 1: what's really important, which is to push the party line,
1:20:48
Speaker 1: push the feminist line. And then these these these these
1:20:52
Speaker 1: sexual assault counselors are like, this is about centering the
1:20:57
Speaker 1: individual who has experienced trauma, not your idea, please f
1:21:02
Speaker 1: U c k off. Yeah, I mean at least that
1:21:06
Speaker 1: at least we have that. Guys, you know, there are
1:21:08
Speaker 1: still some human beings out there. But this is like
1:21:11
Speaker 1: being pushed by the National Sexual Violence Resource Center. This
1:21:17
Speaker 1: is federally funded to a degree. And this is basically feminist.
1:21:22
Speaker 2: Ideology came out of the Violence Against Women Act, Like
1:21:26
Speaker 2: that's like it came from that and the cd the
1:21:30
Speaker 2: Center for Disease Control and Prevention. I think it was
1:21:33
Speaker 2: so like not yeah, that it came out of that,
1:21:36
Speaker 2: so it just sort of like makes sense.
1:21:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's that's what I wanted to talk about.
1:21:42
Speaker 1: I mean, unbelievable, huh. And this is this is what
1:21:46
Speaker 1: GROC considered to be feminists caring about men as victims. No,
1:21:53
Speaker 1: not really, and again, right, huge staff turnover for whatever
1:21:57
Speaker 1: reason during this program, lots through these sites where the
1:22:00
Speaker 1: staff was actively resistance against this program and men and
1:22:04
Speaker 1: boys said they didn't like it. They had the lowest rank,
1:22:09
Speaker 1: lowest rates among men and boys. But this is this
1:22:13
Speaker 1: and this program is like three fifths of the section
1:22:19
Speaker 1: on helping men and boys mm hm, helping men and
1:22:23
Speaker 1: boys to realize that they're the problem. I'm all right,
1:22:26
Speaker 1: good lord, Okay, so should we do a palate cleanser?
1:22:29
Speaker 1: Do you want to do that?
1:22:30
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, no, no, I I can just I can
1:22:33
Speaker 2: see what this is. It's essentially, yes, like they're selling
1:22:36
Speaker 2: a struggle session and they're upset that not everyone is reciprocal,
1:22:41
Speaker 2: that they're like not taking it. Well, so I have well, yeah, what.
1:22:46
Speaker 1: Do you give trailer of a woman?
1:22:49
Speaker 2: I do have a trailer. I'd laugh at it. That's
1:22:51
Speaker 2: basically about the extent of it. I know we could.
1:22:53
Speaker 2: It's about three minutes long.
1:22:55
Speaker 1: Oh good lord, no, it probably deserves a rage.
1:22:58
Speaker 2: A long Yeah, yeah, too long. Let's can you do it?
1:23:00
Speaker 2: On Friday? There's news the new show coming out on
1:23:04
Speaker 2: Apple Plus. I'm just gonna throw it out there. As
1:23:06
Speaker 2: you guys know. It's called The Savant Sorry Jessica Chastain
1:23:10
Speaker 2: and well, it's about a mother who well, let me see,
1:23:16
Speaker 2: like it's an upcoming American crime thriller mini series. It's
1:23:19
Speaker 2: aimed at women, created by Melissa James Gibson, and it's
1:23:23
Speaker 2: based on an article by Andrea Stanley. So I think
1:23:28
Speaker 2: it was like a New York Times article or something,
1:23:31
Speaker 2: but they made a whole show around this article. Let's
1:23:33
Speaker 2: see if I can find it while you're while you're
1:23:35
Speaker 2: getting the palate cleanser. Ready, let's see what.
1:23:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got something. I'm going to send it to you.
1:23:44
Speaker 1: But yeah, let's let's read it.
1:23:46
Speaker 2: So, yeah, it's true. It's inspired by a true life
1:23:49
Speaker 2: story entitled is It Possible to Stop a Match Shooting
1:23:53
Speaker 2: Before it Happens? Which featured in Cosmopolitan in August thirty
1:23:56
Speaker 2: nineteen of a woman who has come to be known
1:23:58
Speaker 2: as the Savant trades online hate groups in order to
1:24:03
Speaker 2: prevent large scale public attacks. Oh, I have this file.
1:24:07
Speaker 2: I can just play it. Hold on, this is yeah.
1:24:09
Speaker 2: I have that video of the Mary Morgan one. I
1:24:11
Speaker 2: actually saw it.
1:24:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, so uh okay, yeah, that okay. Well, I wonder
1:24:16
Speaker 1: if she's ever infiltrated our group, the.
1:24:19
Speaker 2: Online hate group.
1:24:21
Speaker 1: We're an online hate group because I say that male
1:24:25
Speaker 1: victims of sexual assault should not be treated as the problem.
1:24:28
Speaker 2: That's why I picked it out, because I was like, oh,
1:24:30
Speaker 2: that seems relevant to our interests.
1:24:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it is. Like when I started this, I
1:24:37
Speaker 1: was a young feminist and I thought the most important
1:24:41
Speaker 1: feminist issue was that women should also serve their country
1:24:43
Speaker 1: in wartime. And then I was debused, like I realized
1:24:47
Speaker 1: I am the only feminist who gives a crap about that.
1:24:49
Speaker 1: And also I was concerned about male victims of sexual
1:24:52
Speaker 1: assault and female victims of women as well, right the
1:24:56
Speaker 1: ones who are most marginalized. And as I've advocated for
1:25:00
Speaker 1: that issue, I've come to realize that feminists aren't like
1:25:07
Speaker 1: ignorant of the existence of male victims of sexual assault
1:25:10
Speaker 1: by women. They are deliberately suppressing it. And they are
1:25:14
Speaker 1: deliberately suppressing it because it is inconsistent with their ideology
1:25:18
Speaker 1: that men use sexual assault to uphold patriarchy. Now, how
1:25:22
Speaker 1: could they do that if they were equal victims of
1:25:25
Speaker 1: women's sexual assault. Doesn't make sense, doesn't work. So they
1:25:28
Speaker 1: got to push it down, ostracize it, move out, make
1:25:32
Speaker 1: sexual assault be seen as a female or more majority
1:25:35
Speaker 1: female thing. And men are really just victims of violence
1:25:38
Speaker 1: against women when it happens to them, like they did
1:25:40
Speaker 1: in the UK and gradually over the last twenty years,
1:25:44
Speaker 1: I've realized that this isn't a position taken out of ignorance.
1:25:47
Speaker 1: It's a position taken out of deliberate malice. It's a
1:25:51
Speaker 1: deliberate malice. Like malice isn't just hatred, it's also neglect. Right,
1:25:58
Speaker 1: It's knowing that there's a negative outcome and not caring
1:26:02
Speaker 1: because you want to pursue some other interests like money. Right,
1:26:06
Speaker 1: So this is malicious, a malicious, amniscient, omniscient no omission. Sorry,
1:26:13
Speaker 1: my wires got crossed there for a second. This is
1:26:16
Speaker 1: a malignant omission because it challenges feminist ideology. Feminist ideology
1:26:22
Speaker 1: makes money, generates clout, and they don't want to address
1:26:26
Speaker 1: these issues. And they've basically set feminist ideology against recognizing
1:26:32
Speaker 1: the full scope of sexual abuse of men by women.
1:26:36
Speaker 1: They've set it against They've basically made defeating feminism a
1:26:41
Speaker 1: prerequisite towards recognizing the extent of male victimization by women.
1:26:49
Speaker 1: They've done that, They've set their ideology against male victims
1:26:53
Speaker 1: of women. That understanding didn't come place, didn't come to
1:26:59
Speaker 1: my mind until like the Amber Heard trial. It was
1:27:02
Speaker 1: starting to percolate, and then this year I just realized
1:27:06
Speaker 1: it I just it's just everything slotted in my mind,
1:27:10
Speaker 1: everything that I've seen over the last twenty years. There
1:27:13
Speaker 1: is no world in which feminist advocacy exists and male
1:27:18
Speaker 1: victims of female rapists are fully acknowledged, fully acknowledged. It
1:27:24
Speaker 1: just doesn't happen. Okay, yeah, that's hate speech. All right.
1:27:28
Speaker 1: Let's watch this, all right.
1:27:29
Speaker 2: Let's stick this out. This is Mary Morgan. These on
1:27:33
Speaker 2: a show called pop Culture Crisis. It's basically like a
1:27:37
Speaker 2: part of Tim Poole's network, so it's the site like
1:27:40
Speaker 2: they work for. There's a lot of overlap, but she
1:27:43
Speaker 2: talks specifically about pop culture culture things. All right, so
1:27:47
Speaker 2: let's listen. This is a yeah, this is a good one.
1:27:49
Speaker 3: Permanently damaged their brains. They held yet another book talk
1:27:52
Speaker 3: event in real life that ended in disaster called Sinners
1:27:56
Speaker 3: and Stardust where your darkest dreams become reality. Okay, this
1:28:01
Speaker 3: was their dark romance ball.
1:28:04
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:28:04
Speaker 3: Nice, totally normal stuff. Yep, no safe words, yes, very normal. Right, Yeah,
1:28:16
Speaker 3: this is about books. Here is just one of the
1:28:18
Speaker 3: male actors they hired to choke attendees and point weapons
1:28:22
Speaker 3: at them. Get your bag, king, It's.
1:28:23
Speaker 2: Like, who's gonna tell them?
1:28:25
Speaker 3: That the stripper doesn't actually like you. Yep, and we're
1:28:28
Speaker 3: supposed to believe this is just for women who really
1:28:32
Speaker 3: love reading books. Absolutely nothing weird about it except for
1:28:36
Speaker 3: those allegations. Apparently, one of the few men there was
1:28:39
Speaker 3: said by multiple women made to describe against his will,
1:28:44
Speaker 3: how he would hypothetically kidnap a woman in real life
1:28:48
Speaker 3: like men do in the dark romance books. At least
1:28:51
Speaker 3: one woman tried to stalk him by sneaking an air
1:28:54
Speaker 3: tag on him. Is anyone surprised to see the organizers
1:28:58
Speaker 3: of the event aka.
1:28:59
Speaker 1: This is a little bit of first they stalked him
1:29:03
Speaker 1: down and group sexually assaulted him, Yes, cornered him, stalked
1:29:07
Speaker 1: him down, cornered him, and group sexually assaulted him.
1:29:10
Speaker 2: Yeap coffee mugs in the chat guys, Okay, let's watch
1:29:13
Speaker 2: the rest of this.
1:29:14
Speaker 3: Yes, we've got nighthawk lover of smut. At least you're
1:29:17
Speaker 3: being honest, Resident Cinnamon Roll and the Bodacious Beauty Babe.
1:29:21
Speaker 2: Okay, you get it.
1:29:22
Speaker 3: Obviously, if some group of men put on a fan
1:29:25
Speaker 3: convention all about celebrating their violent graphic fantasies, women would
1:29:29
Speaker 3: rightly disapprove of it and not feel safe there. These
1:29:32
Speaker 3: women are deranged and we have to shame this behavior
1:29:35
Speaker 3: or unfortunately, we're gonna see.
1:29:36
Speaker 4: More of it.
1:29:38
Speaker 1: Let me put it this way. Men dressing up as
1:29:42
Speaker 1: cryptids and doing all this other stuff. That's not the
1:29:46
Speaker 1: deranged behavior. Okay, let's let's be honest. I mean, it's
1:29:50
Speaker 1: it is what it is. It's like a it's like cosplay, right.
1:29:53
Speaker 1: The deranged behavior is a sexual assault, and it happens
1:29:57
Speaker 1: at romance conventions like this. This is a persistent problem
1:30:01
Speaker 1: with the romance community. Okay, it happens at normal, vanilla
1:30:06
Speaker 1: romance conventions. So it's not the dark aspects of this,
1:30:11
Speaker 1: although you know, not great. It is the sexual assault.
1:30:17
Speaker 1: I just want to point that out because I think
1:30:19
Speaker 1: we get into this kind of oh, it's about the
1:30:22
Speaker 1: dark romance or whatever else, when it's really should be
1:30:25
Speaker 1: focused on the fact that these women have violent sexual
1:30:28
Speaker 1: entitlement to men's sexuality, and that exists across the entire
1:30:32
Speaker 1: spectrum of romance. So it's not just this that has
1:30:37
Speaker 1: the problem, is what I'm getting at.
1:30:40
Speaker 2: Well, again, you know, the one of the main issues
1:30:44
Speaker 2: is that female romance novels is porn for women, and
1:30:48
Speaker 2: no one acts like it is. So that's why only
1:30:52
Speaker 2: porn for men, which is the visual stuff, that's what
1:30:55
Speaker 2: gets a lot of attention, a lot of like you know,
1:30:58
Speaker 2: curl pearl clutching and that kind of thing. But like
1:31:01
Speaker 2: romance novels for women, which is basically porn for them,
1:31:04
Speaker 2: no one beats an eye. They don't generally care. You
1:31:07
Speaker 2: can get it at Walmart, you can get it at
1:31:08
Speaker 2: the drug store. You know, you can go to like
1:31:11
Speaker 2: a CVS and you can get those books there. And
1:31:13
Speaker 2: I think that that's the main thing is that we
1:31:15
Speaker 2: don't think of it the same at all, even though
1:31:18
Speaker 2: it is well effect what we.
1:31:23
Speaker 1: Don't think of any of that. Okay, sorry, it has
1:31:25
Speaker 1: the same effect. It actually probably has a worse effect
1:31:28
Speaker 1: on women from the little research that I've seen, because
1:31:31
Speaker 1: it encourages incredibly destructive attitudes towards your partners and expectations
1:31:40
Speaker 1: that tend to degrade relationships, Like if you're going to
1:31:44
Speaker 1: expect your partner to mind read, it's going to be
1:31:46
Speaker 1: a problem in your relationship. And then also it encourages
1:31:50
Speaker 1: like some really dark behavior among women. But like I said,
1:31:54
Speaker 1: this is a problem with the entire romance genre, which
1:31:57
Speaker 1: now has consumed frickin' everything. The fiction genre, like historical
1:32:03
Speaker 1: science fiction, fantasy. Everything has been consumed into romance. It
1:32:08
Speaker 1: has been consumed into women's porn. And you're right, it
1:32:11
Speaker 1: does need more constraints because we don't splash men's porn everywhere.
1:32:17
Speaker 1: We expect them to put it in a brown paper bag.
1:32:20
Speaker 1: We don't expose children to it, we try not to.
1:32:23
Speaker 1: And yet women's porn is just everywhere. It's ubiquitous. Now,
1:32:28
Speaker 1: it's in Barnes and Nobles on like giant shelves with
1:32:32
Speaker 1: celebration of monster fucking right, yeah, it's and it's yeah
1:32:37
Speaker 1: that okay, it's fine. You have these fantasies, Fine, you
1:32:41
Speaker 1: want an outlet, Fine, take responsibility for the fact that
1:32:46
Speaker 1: that should be contained and outside of polite society, and
1:32:50
Speaker 1: also take responsibility for your violent sexual entitlement as women.
1:32:54
Speaker 1: You remember, we just went through that whole thing about
1:32:56
Speaker 1: how feminists are like, uh, you know, we how do
1:32:59
Speaker 1: we help male victims of sexual assault, especially by women,
1:33:03
Speaker 1: but while maintaining a framework that sexual assault is gendered,
1:33:07
Speaker 1: that attitude that sexual assault is something men do that
1:33:11
Speaker 1: women do not do or just don't do in the
1:33:14
Speaker 1: same way, or it's not as important.
1:33:16
Speaker 2: Right.
1:33:17
Speaker 1: That attitude leads to stuff like this. It empowers stuff
1:33:20
Speaker 1: like this where men are being sexually assaulted. It empowers
1:33:24
Speaker 1: the romance community to continue to not address its persistent
1:33:29
Speaker 1: problems of sexually assaulting. It's male talent because feminists say
1:33:35
Speaker 1: that rape is gendered, So what they're doing can't be rape,
1:33:38
Speaker 1: right because their goalies. What they're doing can't be sexually
1:33:42
Speaker 1: assault because they're goils.
1:33:44
Speaker 3: Right.
1:33:44
Speaker 1: So feminism is constructing a rape culture, enforcing it on
1:33:48
Speaker 1: sexual assault services. But at least half of those sexual
1:33:54
Speaker 1: assault services pushed back, and at least half of those
1:33:58
Speaker 1: sexual assault services almost completely lost their staff, so at
1:34:03
Speaker 1: least somebody is somebody is not appreciating it. Although, honestly,
1:34:07
Speaker 1: if it continues at this rate, the sadistic program that's
1:34:10
Speaker 1: being pushed by the National Sexual Violence Ideological Center is
1:34:15
Speaker 1: going to basically destroy every sexual assault resource in the country.
1:34:20
Speaker 1: They'll either dissolve because everybody will quit, or they will
1:34:24
Speaker 1: actively push back and then be called sexist and be
1:34:27
Speaker 1: forced to resolve dissolve, so nobody's gonna have sexual assault resources. Guys,
1:34:31
Speaker 1: thank you, feminism. You're such a peach. You're making the
1:34:35
Speaker 1: world better, of course, and women will continue to rape
1:34:39
Speaker 1: and sexually assault manic romance conventions because that's not something
1:34:43
Speaker 1: women do. Feminism told us that rape is gendered. Good grief.
1:34:49
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, should we wrap it up?
1:34:52
Speaker 1: Yeah? I don't think we can do like, yeah, we
1:34:55
Speaker 1: have like what fifteen minutes to do the three minutes
1:34:58
Speaker 1: of that, I think we're.
1:34:59
Speaker 2: Gonna have No, no, no, we can do that later. I already
1:35:02
Speaker 2: got rid of it.
1:35:02
Speaker 1: I talked a lot. Did you have anything to add.
1:35:05
Speaker 2: No, No, it's fine, I will I'll just say this.
1:35:09
Speaker 2: Your privates are now named after the last TV show
1:35:12
Speaker 2: or movie you watched. So what is their name? God,
1:35:14
Speaker 2: last thing you saw is what your privates are now named? Uh?
1:35:21
Speaker 1: Well, uh no Man's Zone.
1:35:25
Speaker 2: No really, no man's phone, No Men's Zone. It's the
1:35:30
Speaker 2: No Man's Zone is the last TV series.
1:35:32
Speaker 1: It's sort of poking fun at feminist utopia. Yeah, although
1:35:37
Speaker 1: the latest seed, the latest episode had like a bunch
1:35:40
Speaker 1: of patriarchs, except it was just hilariously ridiculous, and the
1:35:47
Speaker 1: patriarchs were actually appropriating the things that had happened to
1:35:50
Speaker 1: the group of men that was living outside of all
1:35:53
Speaker 1: of this. The patriarch which were like former men who
1:35:55
Speaker 1: were called seed keepers, who are the ones who are
1:35:58
Speaker 1: basically responsible for insemine all the women. But it was
1:36:01
Speaker 1: a completely sexless society, and anyway, they they got loose,
1:36:05
Speaker 1: and then they established the most ridiculous patriarchy where they
1:36:08
Speaker 1: had these like gigantic fly swatters and they would use
1:36:12
Speaker 1: that to like menace the women, but they would never
1:36:14
Speaker 1: actually hit them, and then they would make them peel
1:36:16
Speaker 1: potatoes for like half an hour at a time. They'd
1:36:19
Speaker 1: be like, you get for punishment, you get three shifts
1:36:22
Speaker 1: and peeling potatoes, which is like an hour and a
1:36:24
Speaker 1: half of peeling potatoes. So it was just the most
1:36:27
Speaker 1: ludicrous thing, and it is it is pretty funny. And
1:36:33
Speaker 1: through it all there's this one guy called the Baron
1:36:35
Speaker 1: who's just like he's supposed to be this Russian tough guy,
1:36:39
Speaker 1: but he pretty much just tolerates everyone and they're Shenanigans
1:36:42
Speaker 1: and he's very sympathetic because of that.
1:36:45
Speaker 2: So I got some answers from the chat. I want
1:36:46
Speaker 2: to read them. So simply obvious says killer clowns from
1:36:50
Speaker 2: outer space.
1:36:50
Speaker 1: God.
1:36:51
Speaker 2: Robert Johnson says no country for old Man. Mnemonic says
1:36:55
Speaker 2: a fist full of dollars. That's good. Cutie q ta
1:36:59
Speaker 2: tay cuteay, says nobody. That's a movie. But yeah, that's good.
1:37:03
Speaker 2: All right, cool, Well, last thing I watched was Jason
1:37:06
Speaker 2: The Argonauts, so seems appropriate in the Argonaut the Argonaut anyway,
1:37:15
Speaker 2: So yeah, I guess I guess we'll end it there.
1:37:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, although you just poke the les. It's just taking
1:37:21
Speaker 1: a while. Yep, come on, you goddamn let me just
1:37:26
Speaker 1: refresh this. Maybe it'll speed it up. You paid, yes,
1:37:30
Speaker 1: just to make sure that we've got all our super
1:37:31
Speaker 1: chows in order. Po, it's just gonna take a moment here.
1:37:36
Speaker 1: You didn't really like I thought you're the The Monday
1:37:40
Speaker 1: interview with this is Shaw was really great.
1:37:43
Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah, I mean I'll probably have him on
1:37:45
Speaker 2: again because there's like other stuff I wanted to talk
1:37:47
Speaker 2: about with.
1:37:48
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he's a lot of stuff that you can.
1:37:51
Speaker 2: Also send him an article to look at too, and yeah,
1:37:54
Speaker 2: so we'll see right now, I'm just thinking about getting
1:37:58
Speaker 2: to what.
1:37:59
Speaker 1: Well we got. Okay, all right, so we got so
1:38:02
Speaker 1: big thank you to Yulkley who put in five hundred
1:38:05
Speaker 1: dollars to the meetup. Thank you. He's actually gonna be too,
1:38:10
Speaker 1: So I'm looking forward to meeting. Yes, yes, we we're
1:38:14
Speaker 1: gonna have We're gonna have about double that we did
1:38:17
Speaker 1: last year. Yeah, so it.
1:38:21
Speaker 2: It's growing a little bit us all to chill out.
1:38:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, this place to chill at, to do some presentations.
1:38:28
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do, like I'm hoping that the present well,
1:38:31
Speaker 1: my aim is that the presentations will be a bit
1:38:33
Speaker 1: more informal than they were. Maybe we can do like
1:38:36
Speaker 1: a maybe we can do like a behind the scenes
1:38:40
Speaker 1: uh stream like Badger stream, Like we could stream at
1:38:45
Speaker 1: the event and then have people in the audience like
1:38:49
Speaker 1: ask us questions like we're doing now, except with Hannah
1:38:53
Speaker 1: and Mike. And I don't know if Karen, Like I
1:38:55
Speaker 1: don't know what's happening with Karen.
1:38:57
Speaker 2: She's she's like just react with personal stuff in the
1:39:03
Speaker 2: last two months.
1:39:05
Speaker 1: But yeah, anyway, it's it's a thought. But and then
1:39:08
Speaker 1: we'll have pizza, we'll have like breakfast boxes, and they
1:39:11
Speaker 1: have like a water park there too, So if you
1:39:14
Speaker 1: guys like that kind of thing. But yeah, you'll clese coming.
1:39:17
Speaker 1: So thank you for that five hundred bucks. You'll clear
1:39:20
Speaker 1: I'll give you an idea of where we're at for
1:39:23
Speaker 1: the total for the next for the next deadline, or
1:39:27
Speaker 1: like for the next segment for the next goal. There
1:39:32
Speaker 1: we go. I got it out eventually for the next goal,
1:39:36
Speaker 1: it is fourteen and fifty to go, and that's to
1:39:41
Speaker 1: help pay off Brian's travel and Hannah's travel and Mike's travel,
1:39:46
Speaker 1: and and then after that we'll be looking into doing
1:39:50
Speaker 1: some audio visual upgrades. So if you would like to
1:39:53
Speaker 1: help out with that, it's feed the Badgery dot com
1:39:55
Speaker 1: slash events and consider coming if you're in Calgary, but
1:39:59
Speaker 1: you have to our SVP at Badger at feedbadger dot com.
1:40:03
Speaker 1: It's all on at feed the Badger dot com slash events.
1:40:06
Speaker 1: I want to start building up the momentum again because
1:40:09
Speaker 1: it'd be nice to actually go to a full convention.
1:40:13
Speaker 1: I got booted out of Calgary fifteen. I got booted
1:40:16
Speaker 1: out of the entirety of the US in like twenty
1:40:19
Speaker 1: nineteen when we put on the IC my twenty nineties,
1:40:21
Speaker 1: I couldn't even actually go to that convention. So maybe
1:40:24
Speaker 1: three times a charm in a few years we'll be
1:40:26
Speaker 1: able to put on a convention in Calgary and I'll
1:40:28
Speaker 1: actually be able to attend the full thing. That would
1:40:32
Speaker 1: be awesome. So if you want to put some funds
1:40:34
Speaker 1: towards building up the momentum for that, feed the Badger
1:40:37
Speaker 1: dot com slash events, and again, thank you to Yalkley
1:40:41
Speaker 1: and everybody else who's helped us out. And I'll do
1:40:44
Speaker 1: one last poke of the holes to make sure there's
1:40:46
Speaker 1: nobody in the background trying to send us to superchowl.
1:40:51
Speaker 1: Did you want to add anything to that, Brian, Nope, Okay.
1:40:56
Speaker 2: I gotta go pick up Lindsay. So I'm trying to
1:40:58
Speaker 2: get through this.
1:40:59
Speaker 1: All right, Okay, we're done. If after the show you
1:41:01
Speaker 1: want to send us a message feed Thebadgery dot com slash,
1:41:04
Speaker 1: just the tip and I'll head it back to you.
1:41:05
Speaker 2: Brian. All right. Well, if you guys like this video,
1:41:09
Speaker 2: please smash like subscribe if you're not already subscribed at
1:41:12
Speaker 2: the bellflodifications, leave us a comment, let us know what
1:41:14
Speaker 2: you guys think about what we discussed on the show today,
1:41:16
Speaker 2: and please please please share this video because sharing is caring.
1:41:20
Speaker 2: Thank you guys so much for coming on today's episode
1:41:23
Speaker 2: of Maintaining Frame, and we'll talk to you all in
1:41:26
Speaker 2: the next one.
1:41:27
Speaker 4: Men's Right activists are machines, dude, Okay, they are literal machines.
1:41:33
Speaker 4: They are talking point machines. They are impossible to fucking
1:41:37
Speaker 4: deal with, especially if you have, like especially if you
1:41:39
Speaker 4: have like a couple dudes who have good memory. On
1:41:41
Speaker 4: top of that too, Holy shit, you're fucked