Latest / Substack Writers Salon / Creating A vibrant Writing Community With Jessica Smock

Transcript

Creating A vibrant Writing Community With Jessica Smock · Substack Writers Salon

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: And we are live.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, hi, everyone.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for joining us today for another Substack Live.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_03: I have with me today Jessica Smock,
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_03: who's a writer and a co-editor of MidStory Magazine,
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_03: co-founder of the Hair Stories Project,
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_03: former teacher and researcher,
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: mom of two,
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: and she also has a doctorate in education and policy.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, very impressive.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much,
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_03: Jessica,
• 0:30
  for accepting my invitation and for joining me today for
• 0:34
  another episode of
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_03: Natasha's Substack Live.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_03: Of course.
• 0:43
  I am so excited to talk to you about mainly to know what's your
• 0:48
  secret,
• 0:48
  Jessica.
• 0:49
  You have over 6,000 subscribers and you have that verified tick
• 0:56
  sign on Substack,
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: which I guess means you're a best seller.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: And it means also that you have hundreds of paid subscribers.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: How did that happen?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: What is your secret?
• 1:11
  um well first of all that is we have two sub stacks one they're
• 1:17
  they're around the
• 1:18
  same general theme but one is mid story magazine uh which yeah
• 1:23
  and the other is mid
• 1:25
  stack and they're connected but um one mid stack is a directory
• 1:29
  and a community for
• 1:30
  women who are explicitly writing on Substack and mid story is
• 1:34
  where we tend to like
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just for sub-stack writers.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's for just, it's reading about midlife women's stories.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: So we,
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: my co-editor and I,
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: Stephanie Springer,
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: have been working together,
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: building a writing community since,
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: oh,
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: 2012,
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: maybe?
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: 2012, 2013?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: We formed the Her Stories project.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's a community of writing classes, writing groups.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: We published anthologies.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: And we had been doing that for a long time before Substack.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: So we brought over our email list to Substack.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: So that certainly helped.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: But a lot of those people were not...
• 2:25
  necessarily interested in being like you know participating in
• 2:29
  Substack um but yeah
• 2:32
  we we just really um we had a lot of friends and other writers
• 2:38
  in the midlife
• 2:39
  women's writing community and we sort of reached out to them
• 2:42
  and we published lots
• 2:44
  of um essays by other midlife women so that helped grow
• 2:48
  awareness of our community
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: on Substack as well um so yeah um you know we uh
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: yeah, it's been, it's not, it's not like an overnight.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: We,
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: we,
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: we,
• 3:00
  we hardly just like went on Substack and we're at overnight
• 3:03
  success or anything.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: I see.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_03: So in terms of your community,
• 3:11
  what do you provide to the community and how does the community
• 3:14
  contribute?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: Do you, do you pay the writers when they publish?
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: How, how does this work?
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: We do pay writers right now.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: We're in a little bit.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: We, um,
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: we're in a bit of a pause for submissions, but we do pay writers.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: We always have paid writers.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: We paid writers to our anthologies as well as to our sub stack.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: And before that on our website.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: So we do pay.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: What was the rest of your question?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: And what, what, what do you offer to the community?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: So again, um,
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's a little confusing,
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: and people ask us about this,
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: and maybe this is kind of a branding issue in the first place.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said,
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: for 12,
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: 13 years,
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: we've had the Her Stories project,
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: which is sort of the overall umbrella.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's our company.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's our LLC.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: And through that, we offer paid workshops.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: We offer writing groups, writing classes that are on another platform.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: They're not on Substack.
• 4:18
  we host them in other places and that so we've always done that
• 4:22
  and then onSubstack
• 4:24
  um we have this directory where people or midlife women can get
• 4:29
  listed in our
• 4:30
  directory of all the different publications written by midlife
• 4:34
  women and we do we
• 4:36
  publish essays by other writers on Substack or not um so yeah
• 4:43
  that's that's about it
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: generally um so kind of a
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: combination of things on and off Substack.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_03: And how do people get involved in the community?
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_03: What do they need to do to be part of your writing community?
• 4:59
  We have,
• 5:01
  you know,
• 5:01
  we have a website that has a calendar and we usually,
• 5:04
  you know,
• 5:04
  we
• 5:06
  We send out emails to just our general email list as well as on
• 5:11
  Substack about
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: workshops that are coming up.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: So we just, you know, we let people know through that.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: We have,
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: we do,
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: in the last several months,
• 5:24
  we've done a lot more of kind of one or two hour workshops
• 5:30
  where we have guest
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: instructors.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: So that's another thing I should say.
• 5:34
  another way that people get involved in our community is they
• 5:37
  volunteer to,
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: teach or lead a workshop.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: So they,
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: we have,
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: we have,
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: a form where you can kind of submit a proposal for that.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: And why volunteering?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: Not volunteering.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: We pay people.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: So we share.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: Not volunteering.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, some people are willing to volunteer.
• 6:00
  You know,
• 6:00
  if they have a book that's coming out or they want to try out
• 6:03
  something.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's fine.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: But no, 99% of the time we split.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: We split.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: We do a split with the instructor.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_03: So you said you created the Her Stories project in 2007?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_03: Is that what you said?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, no, like 2012, 2013.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_03: This is 12th.
• 6:23
  like a 10 year and what made you what made you do that like
• 6:28
  what was your career
• 6:29
  trajectory before you created lnc and i'm assuming that's your
• 6:34
  full-time correct
• 6:36
  the hair project or do you do you have a day job a little other
• 6:39
  things i do um some
• 6:41
  writing coaching on my own as well okay and of course i have
• 6:45
  two kids who are in
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: you know elementary school middle school so that's
• 6:49
  yeah kind of my main job actually i hear you i have three of
• 6:54
  those yeah so i mean
• 6:58
  it is kind of an interesting story um my co-editor and i uh
• 7:03
  stephanie who lives i
• 7:05
  live in upstate new york she lives in colorado and we've we
• 7:09
  formed our partnership
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: long before we actually met in real life we were both
• 7:14
  parenting bloggers,
• 7:15
  mommy bloggers,
• 7:16
  like back in the day,
• 7:18
  you know,
• 7:20
  2010,
• 7:20
  11,
• 7:20
  12.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: And we met that way.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: We both wrote for outlets like Scary Mommy, places like that.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: And we kind of connected because we were both reading similar books.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: We were like reading a book at the same time about female friendship.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: And we were like, hey, why don't we get other women?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: It was called She Matters.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a memoir, A Life in Friendships.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: And we were both reading this book that had just come out.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: And we thought,
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: oh,
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: why don't we host,
• 7:54
  why don't we have women submit their stories of female
• 7:58
  friendship to us and we'll
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: publish them on both of our blogs.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: So we started to do that.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: And that became kind of popular.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: We're like, this is really cool.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of interest in female friendship.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: So we started a website together.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: And that kind of took off.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then we just started because people wanted to know,
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: what are the types of essays that you want to publish?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what makes a good essay?
• 8:26
  We started and I have a background as a teacher and I had
• 8:29
  taught writing in the
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: past to high schoolers.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: And,
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 8:33
  so I started we started offering classes of like what what
• 8:36
  makes a good personal
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: essay?
• 8:39
  and um that kind of took off from there so it started we went
• 8:42
  from kind of a
• 8:44
  parenting blog about female friendship to over the years just
• 8:49
  kind of evolving yeah
• 8:53
  so that's yeah um and how do you monetize this community or um
• 8:59
  you know your
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: project uh well of course i mean most
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: Most of our income comes from the classes that we have,
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: the workshops,
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: the classes and the writing groups.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: We do have a membership, a monthly membership.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of small right now.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: We just we've had a membership off and on over the years.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: So we do have a little we have maybe about.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: 30 members in the membership right now,
• 9:27
  but most of our income comes from writing groups and that are
• 9:31
  sort of like three
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: week,
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: four week writing groups or one time workshops that are paid.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, um, yeah.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_03: And then, so you have over 100 paid subscribers, right?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: And what do you think attracted people to your publication specifically?
• 9:54
  What made your publication stand out so that you can have all
• 9:58
  these number of subscribers?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_03: For example, I'm not going to make you feel sad about me.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_03: I have three paid subscribers.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_03: So what is...
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: Why are people so attracted?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: What do they get out of that paid membership?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we had kind of a clear mission at the beginning.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: And as I said, we had a lot of followers coming, like people that
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: knew of us from beforehand.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: And we said, oh, we're on, we're on Substack.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like we, we want to support your mission.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: But mostly I think it was just, we didn't really offer anything at first.
• 10:36
  And other than just having a very clear mission that people
• 10:40
  wanted to support.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: So we said, we're going to be a publication for and by midlife women.
• 10:47
  And we're going to,
• 10:49
  we're going to publish writing by,
• 10:50
  you know,
• 10:52
  by midlife women.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a unique enough, I think,
• 10:57
  proposition or mission statement that people just wanted to
• 10:59
  support that mission i
• 11:03
  see and then along the way we did we have offered um not very
• 11:08
  many but a few
• 11:09
  different um writing challenges paid that were only for paid
• 11:15
  subscribers um and a
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: couple paid workshops that were only for paid subscribers
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then about a little less than a year ago,
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: I started that second publication,
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: which is kind of an offshoot of MidStory,
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: MidStack.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: The second publication is MidStack.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: We have a lot of pages.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: We have a lot of page subscribers there, too, as well.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: And they're just sort of,
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: again,
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: supporting the mission of having a directory of Substack publications.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I offer a monthly meetup.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: for people to talk about Substack.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I offer weekly writing threads.
• 12:00
  So midlife writers can post their writing from the week in
• 12:03
  those threads and sort
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: of share each other and comment in each other's posts.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: And where do you host your other courses?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_03: You said you don't post them on Substack.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_03: So where would you have them?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: We have,
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: for the last several years,
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: used a combination of Kajabi and Circle,
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: the Circle community platform.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: So, kind of those two places.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: I'm curious, why didn't you use Kajabi's community instead of Circle?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have three hours for me to tell you all the reasons?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: I love Kajabi so much, but
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: Their community platform has always kind of struggled.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I had high hopes for a new offering.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: And we hosted... Let's see.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: We've had a couple classes on the new platform.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: And we tried to host our membership on it.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it was just... Circle is...
• 13:11
  exponentially way better better yeah so it has some it's so
• 13:16
  glitchy it has you know
• 13:18
  it's just hard you know pages disappear it's just it's not
• 13:23
  reliable so yeah we we
• 13:24
  love circles for the communities the community aspect the
• 13:28
  community forum and we we
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: run everything else on our business on kajabi
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because I use Kajabi as well for my courses.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_03: So that was good to know that.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe if anyone from Kajabi can hear us.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think we've been on Kajabi for so many years and they've heard it.
• 13:48
  I just I think that they they should have just bought Circle
• 13:51
  like in the beginning.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, that's a good idea.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so you mentioned anthologies.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so do you actually publish them yourselves, those anthologies?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have like an imprint or do you self-publish?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_03: How do you do that?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: So we've had five anthologies.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: Four of them we've self-published.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: So we have our own, like, Her Stories Press.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: And then one...
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: So the Her Stories Press,
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_03: I sometimes get pretty technical so that people,
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: if they want to do this,
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_03: can do this.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_03: So if you have your Her Stories LLC,
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_03: you created a publisher,
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: like an imprint under Her Stories Project called Her Stories Press.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's what we called it, but it was just
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: you know, for the ISBN numbers and all that.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_03: Which is the book of whatever.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: and then one of,
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: Oh,
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: one of the anthologies,
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: one of the five,
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: we published with a hybrid publisher.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, she writes press.
• 15:04
  So that's like a small publisher that,
• 15:06
  um,
• 15:07
  kind of more collaborative publishing.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, um,
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that was a pretty good experience as well.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_03: And how did these anthologies sell?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: What was that?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: How did they sell these anthologies?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: A mix.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's hard to compare.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they sell well initially.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: So we did it because it's an anthology.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:40
  we sort of you know we had a group marketing effort so all of
• 15:44
  the contributors
• 15:45
  would be posting on their own blogs and all that so um but then
• 15:49
  of course with an
• 15:50
  anthology you have to pay all the writers so it's not exactly a
• 15:54
  profit making
• 15:55
  endeavor you have to really really want to do it because you're
• 15:57
  not going to make
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: much money um so yeah um but yeah we we um
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: we put out a call for submissions for writers on social media and blogs.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: And we, yeah, we, we, and all of them, we got hundreds of submissions.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: So we had to go through and choose, choose the pieces.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_03: So what do you have planned for the future in terms of...
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have any anthologies planned or are you just going to focus on the
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_03: publications for now?
• 16:43
  The last anthology we did was an anthology about the pandemic,
• 16:49
  about COVID.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: It was called The Midlife... Now I'm blanking on the name.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: The...
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: Pandemic Midlife Crisis.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: And that was during COVID.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: Right now, together, we're not doing another anthology.
• 17:08
  But my co-editor is in the midst of accepting submissions on a
• 17:16
  new anthology called Unredacted.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: And it's women writing about their divorces.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: So she's accepting submissions for that.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: And we've written about it on our Substack as well.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: And how has been your experience on Substack so far since you moved,
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_03: since you had that community since,
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: for almost,
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_03: for more than 10 years now,
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: And so...
• 17:49
  the experience now that you shifted to Substack or like an
• 17:52
  additional like platform
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: for you,
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: uh,
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: or you shifted your newsletter.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: How has that been different than in the past?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's been really wonderful.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think it, it helps us find our people so much better.
• 18:06
  You know,
• 18:06
  in the past we,
• 18:08
  we mainly relied on,
• 18:10
  I guess,
• 18:12
  mainly Facebook for finding new people.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or if we, if we, um,
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: Again,
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: if we posted calls for submissions,
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: we'd get a lot of people interested in our,
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: not just the actual anthology,
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: but interested in us more generally.
• 18:29
  And then it just,
• 18:30
  it helps us like Substack is really good for like niches.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like we have a very,
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: we have a very small niche and like,
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: it just,
• 18:38
  it's so much more of a direct way to find a readership and
• 18:42
  people to come to our
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: workshops and classes.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: Would you ever open it to men or non-binary or are you focused on...
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: Oh,
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: non-binary,
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: non-binary,
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: anyone,
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: female identifying.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: We recently had a man in one of our workshops,
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: but this is the first time this has ever happened in whatever,
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: 12 years.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: It was fine, but it was kind of like, oh, okay.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_03: And,
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_03: yeah,
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_03: so what would you do,
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_03: if a man says,
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: because you're very,
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: specific towards women,
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_03: and if someone's like,
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_03: well,
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_03: I want to write about my midlife crisis,
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: what would you do?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we probably would not publish a piece from a man.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's just, I mean, we're...
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: But again, this has never happened.
• 19:40
  I'm pretty safe to say it probably won't happen unless it's
• 19:43
  just someone being a troll.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: We've had a couple non-binary people over the years.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm just curious.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: I think maybe because women tend to self-reflect a lot,
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_03: I guess,
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_03: and the female experience is probably more complex with,
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_03: the childbearing and then the menopause and whatever.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I think there's a...
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_03: a lot more to write about besides a male midlife journey, I guess.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and we're really like, we're good.
• 20:28
  I'm always putting out surveys and talking to our audience and
• 20:33
  trying to get people
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: to reflect on what it is
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: what their problems are,
• 20:37
  what their challenges are in their lives so that we can reflect
• 20:40
  that in their
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: marketing.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: So like if I'm doing my job right,
• 20:45
  men will be interested in what we're offering because it's not
• 20:50
  relevant because I'm
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: listening to,
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: so.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so you send a call for submissions and people submit stuff.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: On what basis do you accept and reject?
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_03: What would be like a big no-no for you?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like you see it, okay, this is not for us.
• 21:11
  I would say the most often it's pieces that are just way too
• 21:16
  long and are just not
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: meant,
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: like they would be great as a,
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: a published piece in a book or something like that,
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: but they're,
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: they're just not,
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: they're not short enough and they're not tight enough to be,
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: published online.
• 21:32
  Um,
• 21:33
  you know,
• 21:33
  we're not the New Yorker going to publish like a 6,000 word
• 21:36
  piece on whatever.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think that's the main reason.
• 21:41
  Um,
• 21:42
  also just universal,
• 21:47
  the universalness of the experience,
• 21:48
  whether,
• 21:49
  you know,
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: it's relating to topics that can, that more people can relate to.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: So if it's like a really,
• 21:57
  really individualized specific experience with lots of specific
• 22:00
  details that you
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: just get lost in the nuances of it,
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: And we do tend to, we do, we do mostly, um, publish personal essays.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: So sometimes people submit things that are more like,
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: how to articles or like a reported piece on a topic.
• 22:20
  And we tend,
• 22:21
  we really want more of the memoirish personal essay types of
• 22:25
  writing.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: And, um,
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_03: So that was for the people who want to submit to be writers.
• 22:34
  What about the people who want to submit to be instructors,
• 22:38
  like workshop instructors?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: What are you looking for?
• 22:41
  I mean,
• 22:42
  in case anyone is listening and they want to apply,
• 22:44
  what are you looking for?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: A variety of topics.
• 22:50
  I mean,
• 22:50
  the things that I've done,
• 22:52
  we've only been doing this a lot for the last several months.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: So this is kind of a new thing for us.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: The things that have worked well are craft-based essays,
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: craft-based workshops that are about personal essay and memoir and genre.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: So those are the types of things that do well.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: And like how to...
• 23:22
  Things that are just like where you can learn something and
• 23:24
  there's a real takeaway to it.
• 23:26
  Like one of the most popular ones we've done is like how to get
• 23:30
  how to publish a
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: personal essay,
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: which was great.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: That was clear, clear takeaways.
• 23:38
  We just had one on Friday that was about how to write about
• 23:43
  mental illness as
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: either a family member or yourself.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: It was very practical, like very practical strategies for doing that.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_03: So what about like more skill-based ones,
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_03: like not genre-based,
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: but like,
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_03: for example,
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_03: how to finish a book in 30 days or stuff like that,
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_03: or that's just not something you do?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: No, definitely we do that.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: So we've had one of our most successful workshops,
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: or I don't know about successful,
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: but our favorite workshops is like how to plan a nonfiction book.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: So we've run that maybe two or three times, I think.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that's just so fun.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: And we had, we called it an incubator.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: We had it in January where we had maybe,
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: I guess,
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: about 10 different instructors,
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: 10 different speakers.
• 24:46
  And it was all around the topic of how to start a new writing
• 24:49
  project in the new year.
• 24:51
  So it was sort of like,
• 24:53
  you have a January resolution to start a writing project.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like, here's how to get started.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like, here are some really concrete project management strategies.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: So we ran that in January.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, those types of things, too.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how to get organized to write a book or something like that.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, those do well.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think aspiring authors or writers struggle with mostly?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: What are their pain points?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: I can only speak to our community's pain points,
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: which are women between the ages,
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: I would say,
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: usually like 40 to 60 or 70.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I've just sent out a couple of surveys in the last month.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: And overwhelmingly, the number one pain point is
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: not finding time.
• 25:51
  So they express that they just simply do not have enough time
• 25:54
  in their day or
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: organization to write.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: So like,
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: it's kind of that consistency,
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think is the biggest struggle that we have in our community.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay,
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: that's,
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: so that's kind of why we offer like in our membership,
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: we offer co writing co working sessions.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like some level of accountability, like
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: On Wednesdays at noon, you can write together for an hour.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: And then at the end, you'll say, what did you accomplish?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: So that really is the most... That's the biggest challenge, I would say.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not necessarily skill-based or anything like that.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's really just how to stay motivated and how to be consistent.
• 26:40
  And your circle community,
• 26:42
  is it open for everyone or do you have to pay for it?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's paid.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_03: The membership is $39 a month.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_03: And what do they get out of it when they join your circle group?
• 26:57
  So you get to attend all the other paid workshops during the
• 27:01
  month for free.
• 27:02
  So we might have four different paid workshops during the month
• 27:05
  that we sell individually.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: And you can go to all those for free.
• 27:10
  And then we have all those co-working times,
• 27:14
  um,
• 27:14
  space throughout the month.
• 27:16
  Um,
• 27:17
  we also have critique sessions where people can post their
• 27:20
  writing and get it critiqued.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: We have,
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 27:25
  just a forum where people can interact and like share resources
• 27:30
  and that it's a
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: little bit,
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm hesitant to be like,
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: it's not on pause,
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: but,
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 27:36
  You know,
• 27:37
  we're getting into our summer schedules and my co-editor is
• 27:41
  traveling right now.
• 27:42
  So it's like it's still active,
• 27:44
  but it's not as active as it was in the spring.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: If you see what I mean, we're kind of like we're still having co-writing.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: We're still having workshops, but it's not as active as it was.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: We also have writing prompts in there as well.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: And you get the full library of our past workshops.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: Hmm.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_03: And do you think that's what takes the most time of you from your like,
• 28:08
  is it you're working on the community or what is the most time
• 28:14
  consuming project
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: you're working on?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: It depends.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's the great thing about this is like.
• 28:26
  I can work on like when we I mentioned that incubator,
• 28:30
  which is for the month of January.
• 28:32
  um i worked on that very intensively for a couple months like
• 28:36
  getting all the
• 28:36
  speakers making all the sales page all of that stuff and then i
• 28:41
  could get to step
• 28:42
  back and like i um i i got a whole bunch of speakers and
• 28:50
  instructors early on in
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: the beginning of spring and now i can kind of step back and just like
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: you know, they just happen.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: So it really depends.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: It depends on what, what we have going on.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: We're thinking about having another workshop this summer.
• 29:07
  And so the way things work in our partnership with my co-editor
• 29:13
  is I'm sort of more
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: the,
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know,
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: the executive editor.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe I do like all the tech stuff,
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: the nuts and bolts behind the scenes,
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: making sure like I do like the marketing,
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: the sales pages,
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: all that stuff.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: And she tends to like,
• 29:28
  more often is the one who leads the co-writing sessions and
• 29:32
  kind of the group
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: coaching and that sort of stuff.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: So we have a very nice like balance in our partnership.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_03: I like that.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_03: the idea of partnering with another person to create a community,
• 29:46
  I think makes it less daunting on you and make it even better
• 29:50
  experience for the
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_03: people who join.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_03: So how,
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_03: in terms of marketing,
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: and I feel many authors and writers and,
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: I guess you're more of an authorpreneur or a solopreneur.
• 30:08
  How are you marketing your work in order to get new members to
• 30:14
  your community?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think has been,
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 30:18
  the highest ROI in terms of your effort or the money that you
• 30:21
  put in order to get
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: more members to the community?
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: long term,
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: since the beginning,
• 30:29
  probably the greatest number of people found us through our
• 30:33
  calls for submissions
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: for our anthologies.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: And through when we marketed,
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: using the power of other people to market,
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: when they would publish a piece in our website,
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: they would sort of,
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: the contributor would
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: you know, talk about it on Facebook.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so people would find out about us.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I think long-term that,
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: but right now,
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: most of our,
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: most of people find us through Substack,
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: actually.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_03: So is that where you're putting most of your efforts?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um...
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of it.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: I have grand plan for mid stack.
• 31:21
  I really want to make the directory a lot more useful than it
• 31:24
  is and to make it a
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: much more like robust community experience inside of it,
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: other than just like posting your writing and that sort of thing.
• 31:35
  But I would say in terms of time,
• 31:38
  I spend most of the time with like planning and
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: running the workshops that's outside of Substack right now.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: Have you done previous Substack lives besides this one?
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: I've done interviews on Substack, but I don't think they were lives.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like...
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_03: Because,
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: I keep telling everyone,
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: Substack Live,
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: Substack Live,
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_03: because I've been doing this,
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_03: maybe the past month.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_03: And honestly, it's probably one of the most rewarding things.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_03: Substack's experiences for me.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_03: Not only people discover you,
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_03: but you build this kind of relationship with other people from Substack.
• 32:28
  And it was kind of an outcome that I did not expect that even
• 32:34
  after every Substack
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_03: live,
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: I get five,
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: six subscribers.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's great.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: So now I have a tip for people to grow your Substack.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: Go live twice a day.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_03: You know what?
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe I'm going to turn this into a note now.
• 32:49
  Well,
• 32:49
  it's so funny you're saying that because I was just talking to
• 32:52
  my co-editor this morning.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to run.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just saying to her,
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: we should try new marketing strategies for running,
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: promoting this workshop.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, what about doing a subject live?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: And we were both like, oh, maybe, maybe we'll do it this time.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_03: like this,
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_03: for example,
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_03: it doesn't have to be you and her,
• 33:16
  but like make it in a conversation so it becomes more kind of
• 33:21
  organic promotion
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_03: rather than like we are giving a workshop.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: I think that probably resonates better with others.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_03: No, no.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_03: Just talking.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: No, it wouldn't be like a hard sell.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like an info commercial.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like an info commercial at midnight.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah,
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_03: well,
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_03: so how can people reach you if they want to join your community,
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_03: mid-journey women who want to submit,
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_03: potential authors or instructors who want to reach out?
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: How can they reach out to you?
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, our general website is theherstoriesproject.com.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: And then on Substack, we are at Midstack and at Midstory.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: So those three places.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_03: This is great.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it has been wonderful talking to you, Jessica.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_03: I learned a lot about what you guys are doing and...
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: communities then, you know, you gave me lots of ideas
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_03: to think about as well for my own business.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm sure anyone who's been listening,
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 34:37
  I'm sure you inspired them and hopefully you inspired other
• 34:40
  women authors to submit
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: to your publication.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_03: And thank you for everyone who joined us today.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_03: The recording will be up soon for those who missed it.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_03: And thank you again, Jessica, for accepting my invitation.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, thank you for inviting me.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_03: This was great.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I wish you the best of luck, and I will see you on Substack.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_03: All right, see you on Substack.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: Bye.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_03: Take care, too.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: Bye-bye.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: Bye-bye.