Latest / The Photography & Video Show Podcast / 21: Andy Gotts on 35 years of celebrity portraits; London show preview

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21: Andy Gotts on 35 years of celebrity portraits; London show preview · The Photography & Video Show Podcast

• 0:10
  David McClelland: Hello and welcome to the Photography and Video Show Podcast, your monthly dose of developing camera news and stories from the front line of photography and video.
• 0:22
  David McClelland: It's February 2025.
• 0:23
  David McClelland: I'm David McClelland and coming up this month.
• 0:28
  David McClelland: We speak with portrait photographer to the stars, Andy Gots.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_06: The main thing is I try and give my subject a platform to be themselves.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_06: So this isn't going to be a fancy fair cover shot.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_06: I'm not going to put you in a reclining seat.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_06: I'm not going to have hair and makeup do you for two hours.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_06: I'm not going to have a borrowed suit popped on you.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_06: I'm not going to have 20 people holding lights and then retouching you so you look like this beautiful version of stuff.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_06: I'm giving you the opportunity to show the public you.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_06: Harrison Ford, how do you want the public to see you?
• 1:14
  David McClelland: But first, with just a matter of weeks until the in-person photography and video show, in today's special podcast, we're going to be getting the inside line on what's there.
• 1:25
  David McClelland: And who better to give us that than from the photography and video show team at future publishing events?
• 1:31
  David McClelland: It's Hazel Soper.
• 1:32
  David McClelland: Hello, Hazel.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, David.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: How are you?
• 1:35
  David McClelland: I'm very well, thank you very much indeed.
• 1:37
  David McClelland: But more to the point, how on earth are you?
• 1:39
  David McClelland: We've got just a few weeks to go to the opening, I mean, on your side of the table, opening a show for the first time in a new venue.
• 1:47
  David McClelland: So I'm guessing I should be asking you, how are you right now?
• 1:51
  David McClelland: Nice and busy, I'm guessing.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: We're very nice and busy at the moment.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: Everything's coming together.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: We're six weeks out, as you say.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: The new venue is very exciting for us.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: We've been to Excel a number of times now to scope it all out and see what's going on there.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: So just uh looking forward to March.
• 2:10
  David McClelland: That's just a month away.
• 2:11
  David McClelland: A few months ago on this very podcast, I spoke with Ruth Folkard, who's event director there.
• 2:17
  David McClelland: And our conversation was very much while the event was still taking shapes, fair to say.
• 2:22
  David McClelland: Here we are in February.
• 2:22
  David McClelland: Like I say, the show's just around the corner.
• 2:24
  David McClelland: So get us up to date.
• 2:26
  David McClelland: What can you tell us about uh let's look at the speakers, first of all, that you have lined up for this year's show.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_03: We've got a really exciting lineup of speakers.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: Some we've we've never had before at the show, some are really popular regulars of ours.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_03: I think I'd the the sessions that I'd really like to see, um, and this is just down to my my my background and my interest is uh Lindsay Adler on Saturday.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think that'll be that'll be an amazing, amazing session.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_03: Andy Gotts, obviously, he'll be on on Sunday.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: Charlotte Bellamy is going to do some um going to do a talk on ICM, which I find really, really interesting.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: And we've got Janina Wilde again doing log exposure type um images.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: Also really, really interesting and really beautiful images, kind of more art and fine art images on that side.
• 3:17
  David McClelland: Of course, Lindsay, we spoke to in January's edition of the podcast.
• 3:22
  David McClelland: David Dishima as well.
• 3:24
  David McClelland: I know uh just from social media, lots of people have been getting really excited about him coming along as well.
• 3:29
  David McClelland: So I'll try and put some more clips up of our conversation.
• 3:32
  David McClelland: You've got people coming from all over the world, obviously Lindsay, US, uh David, Canada, from Australia as well.
• 3:39
  David McClelland: This this really does have the feel of an international event.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, we've got um people like Belinda Richards, who's very well known in Australia for her pet photography, and then she's she's coming all the way over.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um we're really excited about welcoming everyone to London.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_03: We really are.
• 3:56
  David McClelland: And as a special bonus, we have some clips of the speakers that they've been sending in, and they've been sharing what they'll be talking about at the show.
• 4:04
  David McClelland: We've made a little package that we'll play here in the podcast later on, and also be sharing some of those.
• 4:10
  David McClelland: Well, you'll also be sharing some of those on social media.
• 4:14
  David McClelland: So, amazing speakers, tick.
• 4:17
  David McClelland: What about brands and show deals?
• 4:20
  David McClelland: Because, well, that there are those of us, I'm put myself very much in this bracket.
• 4:24
  David McClelland: We're looking to pick up some kit there, frankly.
• 4:26
  David McClelland: I need some new lighting in my studio.
• 4:27
  David McClelland: And also it's an opportunity to try out stuff that maybe you haven't been able to get your hands on yet, as we've spoken about on this show.
• 4:35
  David McClelland: Goodness knows how many camera releases there have been over the last, well, certainly since the last in-person photography and video show, but even over the last few months.
• 4:43
  David McClelland: So with that in mind, sort of retail and hands-on with brands kit, what can you what can you tell us at this stage?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we have to keep some of these things under wraps.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_03: The show offers do tend to come out much closer to the show, but we know that there's a lot of good discounts out there, um, a lot of great bundles as well from our retailers, Camera World at London Camera Exchange and Wex Photo Video.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: You'll see the latest Canon, you'll see the latest Sony, there will be some kits at the show which you won't have seen before.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_03: I think the the lovely thing about in-person events like the photography and video show is that you can get hands-on with everything.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: This is something that you cannot do online, and then you can go and buy if you want to.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a it's kind of an all an all-in-one being at the show.
• 5:35
  David McClelland: I guess as we start to think about what might be different this year, obviously a lot of the familiar brands uh that you might have seen at the photography show in Birmingham in previous years, but some some new brands, uh some ones that maybe people wouldn't have seen or haven't had the opportunity to exhibit will be appearing this year as well, which is which is really exciting, keeps it, keeps it fresh.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: It really does.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_03: We're really delighted to see the likes of Three Legged Thing and uh Graphi Studio actually uh signed up today.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's really nice to see those guys back on the on the show floor.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then we've got you know Pentax um uh coming to the show for the first time in a long time, and lens manufacturers like Viltrox, first time to the show for them.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: Going to be a really exciting year.
• 6:22
  David McClelland: Right.
• 6:23
  David McClelland: Any other business time, Hazel?
• 6:25
  David McClelland: What about um walks, extracurricular activities?
• 6:29
  David McClelland: Oh, and galleries as well.
• 6:30
  David McClelland: I will I will chirp in with this one because obviously we've been talking about the week junior science and nature photography competition.
• 6:37
  David McClelland: I know that the finalists will be having their images on display there and the finalists are being welcomed along to the event as well.
• 6:45
  David McClelland: What else have you got in terms of of galleries and other stuff that isn't just buying cameras, getting hands-on with cameras or or listening to speakers on stage?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we've got a number of galleries on this year.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_03: We've got the LCE Photographer of the Year Awards, we've got the gallery from She Click, we've also got a gallery which we're producing on behalf of the Disabled Photographers Society.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_03: So this is this is a really nice one actually.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_03: We a Disabled Photographers Society last year received in the donations box um an undeveloped role of film.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: And when they developed it, they found that it was track side photos from the 1948 Olympics, which was in London.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: It was the first outing of the Olympics since um the World Wars.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: So it was it was a really kind of monumental moment.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: We have tried to find the owners or the you know, the family members who anyone who might know who took them, and so far it's still a mystery.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: So we're we're putting putting the prints up as a gallery, never before seen prints, um, in the hope really that people will, you know, put some names for faces and see the see the photos.
• 7:57
  David McClelland: I really, really hope that we can kind of close that circle and find the people behind that story because it's absolutely fascinating.
• 8:05
  David McClelland: I saw some of the stuff uh I think we even spoke about it on the show on social media last summer when those images first emerged.
• 8:13
  David McClelland: And in terms of photo walks and other sorts of stuff, I I tell you what, because this podcast, the March edition, comes out a matter of days before the actual show takes place.
• 8:25
  David McClelland: If there is any sort of late breaking news, I know there were some things you had to be a bit sketchy on a moment ago with regards to retail, but maybe we can name check those in the podcast, the March podcast.
• 8:36
  David McClelland: So if you are coming along to London, 8th to the 11th of March, then make sure that you download and listen to this podcast before you head out to London because any kind of late breaking news offers and details about photo walks and other bits and bobs will make sure that we've got here.
• 8:52
  David McClelland: So Hazel, your job is to make sure that I know about those so I can put them in the podcast.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_03: All right?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_03: I think it is worth mentioning at this point that we've formatted the show this year so that all of the talks and demos and everything exhibitors within the show halls is accessible to all as long as you have an entry ticket or an entry pass.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: Advance ticket sales are of course, you can book your tickets now at the advanced rate that will go up when when we get to the show opening.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a it's a great idea to get your tickets ahead of time, obviously for planning as well.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: And if you are a pro photographer, you can apply for free entry.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: So just thought I'd mention.
• 9:34
  David McClelland: Well, if the conversation with Hazel has uh piqued your interest, uh floated your boat, it seems appropriate saying that when the show is right by the River Thames in the east end of London, then we have a discount code, especially for listeners to this podcast, giving you 20%, 20% off of your ticket.
• 9:52
  David McClelland: So uh go to photographieshow.com, follow through to that get tickets page, and enter the code PodTPS.
• 9:59
  David McClelland: That's P-O-D-TPS25 at checkout to get your 20% discount.
• 10:06
  David McClelland: We'll be recording something specially for the podcast live at the show too.
• 10:10
  David McClelland: So please do come and say hello, as many of you did last time.
• 10:14
  David McClelland: It'd be great to speak to you.
• 10:15
  David McClelland: Hazel, we're out of time for now, but look, thank you for taking time out to chat to us today.
• 10:21
  David McClelland: And can't wait to see you in London in March.
• 10:24
  David McClelland: Can't wait to see you in the Andy Gotts, MBE, is a British photographer noted for his work with celebrities.
• 10:34
  David McClelland: His distinctive black and white warts and all portraits of actors, musicians, and cultural icons present an intimate and unfiltered glimpse into the faces and personalities of his subjects.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_06: I see myself as an actor photographer.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, I do singers, yes, I do uh famous models, but I'm a movie buff.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_06: I love movies.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_06: And so because of I'd say the first 19 years of my career, I only ever shot actors.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_06: And I think because my name got banded around was that if you think back then, so we're talking early 90s, there was no social media, there was nothing like that.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_06: So an actor would do a film, would do a play, uh, they'd talk about what they'd done yesterday or that evening or what they're going to do tomorrow.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, yeah, I'm being photographed by this guy, and so your name's mentioned, and because that clique of talent, um, your name mentioned a lot.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and for example, um, when I shot uh Dustin Hoffman, for example, I said to him, you know, I was doing a project on who knows who and uh and and the six degrees of Kevin Bacon kind of thing.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_07: Yes.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_06: And so he put me in touch with with Brad Pitt, and and it literally was Brad knew about me.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_06: And so when someone of that caliber knows and knows your name, um, and you think how how do you and I and I think to answer your question is because I've been around for so long, is I'm trusted in the community.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_06: Um, they know because my selling point is I don't edit my pictures, I don't retouch, I don't Photoshop.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_06: When I go when I go click, that is the picture.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_06: And my clients know nothing untoward or nothing ungodly would be put out there.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_06: I'm trusted that they can be silly, they can be quirky, they can show emotion, and nothing that I know will upset them would ever be seen elsewhere.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_06: So I think there's an element of trust as well.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_06: And also, also, I think a key thing is people know at my chutes it's only me.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_06: There's no assistance, there's no PR, there's nothing, it's Andy in the camera, and that is quite unheard of at my level.
• 13:08
  David McClelland: Something you mentioned there is the fact that you're a movie buff.
• 13:12
  David McClelland: Uh lots of photographers have been inspired by by your work, obviously.
• 13:17
  David McClelland: Uh who who maybe on the movie side, which which cinematographers, which movie makers, or maybe specific movies would you say have inspired you in the past?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_06: I was born in 71, so my knowledge of movies was probably late 70s, early 80s.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_06: And I and I was fascinated by Hitchcock.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_06: Uh Hitchcock was amazing, and there's there's a German uh director called uh Fritz Lang.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_06: Uh I I watched his work, but it was the Ealing Comedies.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_06: The Ealing comedies and how they lit things, and there's there's one called the Lady Cars, and the the key scene of the movie is when the leader of this gang, the professor, goes to his old lady's house to hire a room, and you see the shadow of the professor walking past the windows to the front door, and he sees fingers goes up to the buzzer, and it's all in silhouette, and things like that.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_06: Um, I really, really loved and I really uh adored, and um, but there's also a director, David Lean, and David's um his uh capturing of images as you can almost pause a DVD, and each one is a perfect ground photograph.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_06: I mean it's it's it's quite outstanding in another life.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_06: I would have I would have loved to be the director, and even I was really good friends with John Hurt for 20 plus years, and uh well I was going to see it was he moved to Norfolk eventually near my near my parents, yeah.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_06: And I I used to go go and see him when I went to go and see mum and dad.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_06: And one day he phoned me up.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_06: He said, Darling, when will you be coming to see mum and dad next?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_06: I don't know, probably uh uh probably uh next weekend.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_06: He said, Do come around, I want to uh have a word.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_06: So I popped around uh his house and he was sat in it in his uh art studio and he poured us a pint of red wine each.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_06: We sat there with a pint of red wine, yeah.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_06: Uh and he said uh I want to just let you know I've got cancer, and I've been given uh you know my sentence, and I I know how long I've got uh but I want you to know there's more to you than photography.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_06: And I said, What do you what do you mean, John?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_06: He said, Sineor got some more to you.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_06: Do moving images, do something moving, use your skill as a photographer and do something with a moving image, and then he passed away not long later, and so that thing has been rattling around my head now since we lost John.
• 16:26
  David McClelland: So who knows?
• 16:28
  David McClelland: So who knows is all you're gonna commit to for now when it comes to moving images.
• 16:32
  David McClelland: Yeah, who knows?
• 16:33
  David McClelland: Um I I want to talk about your connection with your subjects, and as you as you've alluded to there, Andy, you do have a connection.
• 16:42
  David McClelland: You're the the people who you've worked with, many of them stay friends, they will phone you up and you'll vi visit them and drink pints of wine and all the rest of that.
• 16:52
  David McClelland: Now, the more celebrated the individual, often the more people they have around them.
• 16:59
  David McClelland: But I know that's not how you like to work, it's just you and your light and your camera.
• 17:03
  David McClelland: So when you're working with a client for the first time, how do you set the tone for how you work?
• 17:11
  David McClelland: Does it come as a surprise to the clients who you're working with?
• 17:15
  David McClelland: Does it even always work, would you say?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_06: Over the years I've found out the more famous a celebrity, the less fuss they want.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_06: They really uh they don't I mean, people like Paul Newman, people like Kirk Douglas, Rod Steiger, uh Olivia Humblands, uh Lauren McCall, old Hollywood, the old guys, they've done it.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_06: They want uh tranquility and and and uh but they know how a photo shoot works, they've done that a zillion times, and uh they used to a photographer with an entourage.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_06: When it's just me, it's almost like a breath of fresh air.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_06: It's so unique.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_06: But um that they all know before the shoot starts there is gonna be no one there, they know there'll be no hair or makeup, so when they turn up, uh they need to look the way they want to look.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_06: There's gonna be no one there powdering or podding or grimping, uh so they need to be camera ready.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_06: The guys just rock up and more or less disheveled.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_06: The ladies normally have made an effort and they have a hair, don't know how to make up done.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but we the first thing I do, the very first thing, pour glass of champagne.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_06: Very first thing.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_06: I want at least half an hour of chat.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_06: Uh because I'll know them through their movies, they'll know me through what they've googled before the photo shoot.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_06: Um, so I don't really know them, they don't really know me, but also I won't know the mood they're in because it's silly me wanting to do a serious picture if they're not in a serious mood.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_06: So so I I need to kind of gauge what the shoot will be, and that's done through via not talking about anything they've done.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_06: I I research them as human beings, I find out their interests, I talk about their interests, talk about you know news, talk about anything, but not what they've done because it's not a junket.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_06: They don't want to talk about uh stuff they've done before or what they are doing or what they're going to do.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_06: Uh so I talk about anything.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_06: Lots of actors who know after a lot of famous people haven't worked with most people I've worked with.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_06: So they want to know what other actors are like.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, oh, what's Clooney really like?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_06: What's what's Nick Hill Kidman really like?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_06: You know, so so so they wanted to know gossip on, and and and I I think once you start talking about people, uh barriers get broken down and anecdotes flow, and they and they kind of treat you like you're a friend, rather than you're there to do a job.
• 20:10
  David McClelland: Um you aren't a celebrity.
• 20:13
  David McClelland: The people who you work with are.
• 20:15
  David McClelland: Now, some other photographers who work with celebs have one way or another found celebrity for themselves over the years, but that that's not necessarily the case with you.
• 20:25
  David McClelland: Feel free to disagree with me, by the way.
• 20:27
  David McClelland: But my question is were you ever tempted when you were younger, when you were finding your feet in this in this world, for example, to take a bite from that celebrity apple yourself?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_06: It's difficult because I do a job that is so unique and so different.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, yes, there are thousands of photographers, and then there's uh so many genres of photography.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_06: I fall into a specific category.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_06: I I'm a celebrity photographer, and that's what that's what I do.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_06: So, for example, uh Rankin, for example, he does an element of celebrity, but then it does fashion and he does editorials and he does advertising.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_06: I don't touch that at all.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_06: I only do celebrity.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_06: There are people who do celebrity that like to court the red carpet, they they're invited to the the premiers are invited to things, and they see themselves as a celebrity.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_06: Let's say someone like Annie Liebovitz.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_06: She is a celebrity photographer, and I know that um a critic said to her once, you know, but Annie, you're only famous because of who you shoot.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_06: And and and and I was always absolutely and and and that's the case with me.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_06: I shoot famous people, it's a job.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_06: I am not famous, I do a job.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_06: That's that's where I come from.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_06: From.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_06: I like to do a job, then go home.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, now and again, it's lovely to be invited to a do.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_06: It's lovely.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, uh I'm going to LA uh this coming weekend to uh a Grammys event because I'm good friends with Stephen Tyler from Aerosmith.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_06: And every and every year, well, for the last few years, uh I go to his uh uh do and I'm I I'm an auction knot.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_06: People can bid for me to to do uh click.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_06: So I I think I think the starting bid is a hundred thousand dollars for me to go click once, and uh so far I've had 1.4 million, but his uh abused girls charities, so things like that.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, um I love the fact that I'm called a celebrity and I can raise money for abused girls, or Elton Johns Aides Foundation, or the Mind Charity, or Diabetes, or Crisis, or I mean, I love the fact I can help with my work, but I I don't and also get things like an MBE and get you get given things for what you've done.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but I don't see myself as a famous person.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, I know over the years I'm called like an icon, or I'm called like a legend, or I'm called as I don't see myself as that whatsoever.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_06: I see myself as I'm a guy who do an extraordinarily lucky job, and then I do it to the best of my ability, and then I go home.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_06: That's that's where I see it.
• 23:38
  David McClelland: You mentioned those things that you pick up along the way, Andy Gotts, sorry, Dr.
• 23:41
  David McClelland: Andy Gotts, De Montfort University, MBE in there as well, and probably a few other things too.
• 23:47
  David McClelland: Um, do you have a chance to reflect on the cult of celebrity at all?
• 23:55
  David McClelland: And you know, that maybe this is a dangerous thing given that celebrities are who you work with, but I'm sure it's something that celebrities some will also reflect on as well, of what a weird world it is in which we live or work, where we have such restrictions put on our freedom, frankly, as as celebrities often do.
• 24:18
  David McClelland: Um isn't it all a bit weird?
• 24:20
  David McClelland: Do you ever take a step back from from the world in which you you work, but can take a step back from and go, wow, what a weird thing that is.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_06: So when I started doing the big names, so we're talking about 90 1995, 96, or something, was like getting the the the the big names.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_06: Um I noticed that there was celebrity, and there was an audience who enjoyed the celebrity.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_06: There was there was the the the the the iconic actors, the amazing singers, and people were happy to listen to the music, they're happy to watch the movies.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_06: Nowadays, there's less of an audience because more people want to be famous now.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_06: And I mean this it's changed.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_06: There's now less of an audience because of uh TikTok and because of Instagram, because of Big Brother, because of um reality TV.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_06: Everyone, well not everyone, but a vast proportion want to be famous.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_06: They're not happy just to view, they're not happy just to watch a great movie, they want to be in the movies.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_06: Let's go back to to when I was you know growing up.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_06: I'd watch Parkinson or Rogan or the Russell Harty show or one of these, you know, one of these programmes used to watch.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_06: Uh ask Aspor.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_06: You watched watch the TV shows, and a massive, huge Hollywood star would be there with a pint and a cigarette talking about um their career.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_06: And it was so laid back.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_06: Nowadays, you see a like a Graham Norton and the whole entourage, they show clips of the premiere, like Timothy Timothy Chalamet uh being Bob Dylan, and you see thousands of people, you know, chanting his name and wanting selfies, the the the new autograph, and and and and and and they want that, they and it's a frenzy that that there never was 20 years ago.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_06: And and and and and so I do step back and look at the world now, and I don't I I don't feel that comfortable in this world now of celebrity.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_06: I think it's changed so much.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_06: I think I think a celebrity has more power now than they did in the 70s and the 60s.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, the the power they wield now is frightening.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_06: Uh they can break break uh um a brand, a concept uh by one tweet, a one-line tweet, they can break a company, having that much power.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_06: That's that's that's is that is it is that a safe world?
• 27:22
  David McClelland: I just want to come back to something that that you were talking about there, you know, about the people who you work with, uh you mentioned Steven Tyler there, another very famous, one of the most famous musicians, really Ringo Starr.
• 27:37
  David McClelland: He once called you, and I quote, the Ansel Adams of Faces.
• 27:42
  David McClelland: I love that quote.
• 27:44
  David McClelland: Now Adams, he spoke, he spoke about a lot of technical excellence and feeling, I'm putting big rabbits here, feelings as a key, as a key attributes for his work with his subject matter, obviously, landscape conservation.
• 27:58
  David McClelland: But um what what would you describe as your two key attributes that you bring to your sessions?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_06: The main thing is I try and give my subject a platform to be themselves.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_06: So I don't want them so this isn't going to be a um fancy fair cover shot.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_06: I'm not gonna put you in a reclining seat, I'm not gonna have hair and makeup do you for two hours, I'm not gonna have a borrowed suit popped on you, I'm not gonna have 20 people holding lights and then retouching you so you look like this beautiful version of yourself.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_06: I'm giving you the opportunity to show the public you.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_06: Um Harrison Ford, how do you want the public to see you?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_06: And and so I so I'm giving them a platform to be themselves.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_06: They know there's no editing involved, they know I'm not going to retouch them.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_06: So so that's a a major thing.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and also uh I'd like to I'd like to give myself the challenge of capturing something or capturing a famous face in a way that's that's not been done before, because there's no point me doing a picture that um Bailey's done, that Cash has done, that um Avadon done, that Penn done.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_06: There's no point me mimicking I mean things I'm I'll give you a good example.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_06: Michael Kane.
• 29:37
  David McClelland: Yeah.
• 29:38
  David McClelland: There he is.
• 29:39
  David McClelland: So just pointing up for those of you listening, uh Andy is uh in sat in front uh in his home of uh some images.
• 29:47
  David McClelland: You've got Michael Kane over your left shoulder.
• 29:49
  David McClelland: Who's that over your right shoulder?
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_06: So I've got uh Michael Cain, I've got Kate Moss, and then behind me I've got uh a Monty Python.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_06: So so so the this picture is the last ever picture of Monty Python before they retired.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_06: Because I was the official photographer of the Monty Python's last ever show.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_06: So that shot of Monty Python, that Python signed, they've all signed it.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_06: That was the last ever shot of Monty Python.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_06: So I'm very pleased with that.
• 30:17
  David McClelland: Coming back to the Michael Cain picture, obviously he's been incredibly well photographed in the decades in which he's been active, and you were talking about uh about research and not wanting to take an image that maybe someone's taken before.
• 30:31
  David McClelland: Tell me what about that.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, uh so um uh I when I was studying photography at King's Lynn when I was 18, 19, um, the first day when you sit around in your group saying your name and what you've done before, they said bring a A4 picture of any picture that we can discuss.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_06: And that was the and so the David Bailey picture of Michael Kane with a cigarette, uh, I think he'd just done um Alfie.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_06: And so it's from from 64, 65.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_06: Um, so that was my picture I took in to my first day at college to show that this is the style of photography I really like.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_06: And um, over the years, um that picture that that the simple because Bailey does really simple photography.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_06: Um, he has a white background, a Burn Brandt lighting, one flash, uh, and that's Bailey.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_06: And that's always stuck in the simplicity of Bailey, but there are lots of photographers who who I'm really friendly with, like uh um Greg Gorman, for example, uh, who does amazing lighting.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, and to me, I could never do that because technically it's uh challenging having more than three lights.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_06: Um, so I've always liked simplicity, and and so that that shot of Michael Kane, uh that famous City shot stays in my head.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_06: And I got to know Michael over the years.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_06: I probably shot him six, seven times.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_06: And every time we met up, um I always brought up the Bailey shot, and he said, So, yeah, every photographer asked me, can we recreate the Bailey shot?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_06: Everyone does it, everyone does it.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_06: And I never did, and then it got to a shoot that was due to I drew to do, and I thought, no, actually, I quite like the idea of doing it, and so because I I've become friendly with Michael and his wife Shakira, um, I phoned up Shakira the day before the shoot.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_06: And I said, Shakira, doesn't Michael still have the Harry Palmer glasses?
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_06: She went, Yeah, he does, on his bedside cabinet.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_06: I said, Well, can you put them in his coat pocket and just not tell him?
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_06: And he said, she says, Yeah, of course I will.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_06: Um and then I bought my old black coat to the shoot.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_06: So we'd done the shoot that we were preping to do.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_06: And at the very end, after a couple of drinks, I said, Michael, wouldn't it be great if this one day, was one day we actually do that the nod to the baby shot?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_06: Andy, if I ever do it, it'll be for you.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_06: And and I said, Ah, so you're saying, Michael, if we had the glasses, you'd do it.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_06: He said, he's it's a Andy, me on love, I'd do it for you.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_06: Uh look in your pocket.
• 33:41
  David McClelland: Oh, you are such a few.
• 33:42
  David McClelland: You are such a sneak.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_06: He said, Oh, Andy, he you're such a uh and and uh he he put on the glasses and and he put the coat on and he was laughing, but he thought I was so cheeky, and I only took 15 shots, and only two shots he wasn't laughing in, and I got him to be stony for two shots, and and and and and this shot on my wall is the shot I was after, but he he's he's looking like Harry Palmer, and that's what I wanted.
• 34:17
  David McClelland: Do you know if Bailey's ever seen that picture?
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_06: Um I uh sent him a copy of it, uh and I had nothing back.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but but I mean I I'd like to know.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_06: Uh I'd like to know for some um Bailey and my partner's crossed several times over the years.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_06: So I've been i it'd be nice to know um what you thought of it.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_06: I know Michael loved it, that's the main thing.
• 34:46
  David McClelland: Good, and you do as well.
• 34:48
  David McClelland: Um you mentioned you were a photography student, King's Lynn in Norfolk 30-something years ago.
• 34:55
  David McClelland: And look, you've you've told this story before, and it's a great story of Stephen Fry coming into the school and how you cheekily cheeky, actually, cheeky's kind of a recurring theme here, perhaps, but you've managed to get a snap of him and what that led on to.
• 35:10
  David McClelland: Fantastic story.
• 35:11
  David McClelland: But before that point, and maybe the story you told about taking in that shot of Michael Cain gives it away here.
• 35:20
  David McClelland: What kind of work did you see yourself doing when you were a team, when you were training to be a photographer?
• 35:25
  David McClelland: What sort of work did you see yourself doing, hoped that you would be doing?
• 35:28
  David McClelland: And is it this?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_06: Let's say I never wanted to be a photographer from the beginning.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_06: There wasn't something that came into my vocabulary.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_06: Um, my parents, well, my family, very an artistic family, completely.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_06: My dad was a milkman, and my mum was uh a waitress.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_06: And uh dad was a milkman all his life, and mum was a waitress all her life, and none of my family, none none of my extended family, went to university or anything.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_06: I loved watching as I'd watching movies, and I was very much into uh watching James Bond films, and um and when I was 10 in 1981, my parents allowed me for the first time ever to go to the cinema by myself, and it was 2:30 in the afternoon in Norwich.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_06: I went to the ABC to watch um uh uh For Your Eyes Only.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_06: It's for your eyes only.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_06: Was that Roger Moore back then?
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_06: Uh it's Roger Moore and and and and his uh nemesis was um uh Julian Glover.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_06: And uh who played the uh Greek uh guy who was trying to try to find this sunken thing.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_06: Um, so I was there, I was the only person in the cinema, it's completely empty.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_06: It was it was me, popcorn, some pop, watch this movie, and there's this one scene where Q comes in and gives him the gadgets.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_06: One of these gadgets was a camera, there's also a gun.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_06: And I watched this whole thing, and then that evening I went home, and I I thought the I love the gadgetry, I love that I love the the gimmicks, and also at the same time on on TV, there's a program called In at the Deep End, and Chris Searle, yeah, every Sunday, Chris Searle did a brand new profession.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_06: He's in an opera singer, he was a journalist, and this one week he was a photographer, and his his commission was to be with um Mike Maloney from the Mirror Group newspaper uh following Lady Diana Spencer around London, but she was going to get married to Prince Charles.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_06: That was the commission, and and and you saw you know uh Mike Maloney open his camera case, just like James Bond, all his camera, the lenses, and that was the hook, it was the gadgetry, it wasn't there's nothing artistic, it was the gadgets and the excitement that's what hooked me into photography.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_06: So I went to Kingsley because it was the first ever BTEC in photography, and and so I was a guinea pig.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_06: They chose 15 people throughout the UK to be guinea pigs on this course, and this lovely guy I know from Holt wrote the dean a letter saying, I know this guy is really into photography, he's got no artistic background, but I think he's got something.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_06: And the strength of that letter, they took me on this course, and so and so I was in this course, and year one, you do all photography, you do fashion, fine art, landscape, still life, everything.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_06: Then year two, you specialized the discipline for the entire year.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_06: We got to the end of year one, and it was all nice.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_06: Was there anything?
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, uh was there anything that I wanted to commit an entire year to?
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_06: No.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_06: Um and I was an inch away from saying, well, maybe this isn't for me.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_06: Maybe this life, you know, because it's it uh it's fun, it's exciting.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_06: I I I love you know, standing in a field doing a landscape and then spending your next two weeks in a dark room crafting a print like Ansel Adams, pre-flashing your paper and over overdeveloping.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_06: I loved all that part, but is it something I saw a future in?
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_06: No, and it literally was at that week Stephen Frey came to my college to hand it the diplomas, and uh I knew the room he'd be in.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_06: I I knew there's an empty room next door.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_06: I set up a camera, a backdrop, a lens, went to his QA, put my hand up.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, bought it in the back.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_06: Uh Mr.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_06: Bry, can I take a picture of you?
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, will you be quick?
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_06: I promise.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_06: Ten shots, 90 seconds, change my life.
• 40:40
  David McClelland: Just that shadow on the nose, if I remember from that shot that he particularly liked.
• 40:44
  David McClelland: It's that real sliding doors moment, isn't it?
• 40:47
  David McClelland: That that kind of what if I hadn't have plucked up the courage to ask that question, what if I hadn't whatever it is, um close to being a different career path for you.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely.
• 41:01
  David McClelland: Just before we wrap up, Andy, I just want to reflect back on the 35 years or so that you've been active, you know, 2025 we are now.
• 41:10
  David McClelland: That's uh 35 years that you've been taking celebrity portraits.
• 41:14
  David McClelland: It's a it's a landmark year.
• 41:16
  David McClelland: The world has changed, the world of celebrity has changed, the mediums in which images are viewed has changed.
• 41:24
  David McClelland: We've discussed some of those, we've discussed the impact of social media and how celebrity has changed, but I want to know how you've changed.
• 41:30
  David McClelland: How do you change?
• 41:32
  David McClelland: How has your work changed in that 35 years, would you say?
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, um, I'd say technically aesthetically not changed because I found something when I was 19.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_06: I found that picture of Stephen Frye, Stephen Fry loved it, and to me that said something.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_06: It doesn't matter what I thought, it doesn't matter what my lecturer thought, it doesn't matter what a a publishing company thought, Stephen Fry loved the picture.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_06: And I thought, well, if I can do something that a famous person would actually like, um there's something there.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_06: So technically, I still light the way I lit back then, 30 up years ago.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_06: I know and I I think I do it for a couple of reasons.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_06: Firstly, it works.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_06: Secondly, if I take the lights to a photo shoot, so I mean some sometimes I I I go to people's houses to photograph them, sometimes I have to go to wherever.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_06: I know where I put the lights, what the what the flash settings will be.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_06: I don't have to do flash readings, I don't need to do meter readings, I know I know the inverse square of light back to front.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_06: So, in a long-winded way, I only concentrate on the aesthetic of the photo shoot, nothing technical.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_06: So I can go there from that moment we sit down to to start the photo shoot.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_06: I think of nothing technical.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_06: It's capturing the picture I want to capture, and I think that has not changed.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_06: I think because I shot film for 19 years, then because of Al Pacino, I had to shoot digitally, so I had to get a phase one because of Al Pacino.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_06: But that's ridiculous because um I went to um LA and his publicist demanded he sees in real time what I'm shooting.
• 43:50
  David McClelland: Oh, right, okay.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_06: So Pacino is based in LA.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_06: His publicist is based in New York.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_06: So the only way We could do it was by tethering.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_06: So literally, a week before the photo shoot, I had to hire out a baseball camera, learn how to use a baseline in a week.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_06: Learn what a tether was.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_06: I never heard of a tether.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_06: So to learn what a tether was and and and and that functionality, and then and then trying to make that picture digitally look like my style because it didn't originally.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_06: So I'd say that aspect of my life has moved on dramatically.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_06: I still try to shoot film now, if I can, if I'm allowed to, uh, because I love the magic.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_06: I started photography because it's magic.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_06: I started photography because you get a roll of film, you go into a dark room that's pitch black, you make this film with chemicals, you make a negative, you then do a contact sheet, and it and and putting a bit of paper into chemicals, and you see it uh come to be a picture.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_06: That was magic.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_06: And what kills me slightly these days is I do talks down again at universities, and I went to do a talk to a master's in photography.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_06: They didn't have a dark room there, and you think and you think, Sherry, to be a master of photography, you need to know, you know, the fundamentals, how you do it.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_06: Photography means painting with the light, you know.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_06: You need to know, grassroots, you need to know what photography is, and getting it, and getting a little memory card, popping in your laptop, and getting a finished picture basically like that, you know, um that that kind of niggles me a little bit.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_06: That kind of niggles me a tiny bit.
• 46:07
  David McClelland: So that that experience with Al Pacino and having to go digital, was that enough to convert you, or were you still quite reluctant after after that?
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_06: I'm still reluctant.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_06: Um I mean uh when I was 19, I bought a Mamila RB67 that was it weighed this it was it was like carrying a bruise flock around.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_06: It was massive, it was literally the size of three hassle blads, it was massive, and the negative was six by seven, and when you held that camera, you know you're holding a camera, you know that the weight of that.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_06: That's why I've got a bit of a dodgy back because holding holding this camera, uh but and and it was a field camera with a waist level finder, you had to look you had to be hunched over looking down.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, uh, and and and and and having that for like 19 years, literally that that that was it.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_06: Um and when I've got this phase one, it's still a medium format camera, but it's so light and delicate and dainty.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_06: I like to feel I'm doing something, so I like the weight of it.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_06: And so people don't want film anymore, people don't, and it's because they don't want to wait.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_06: If you if you shoot film, they've got to wait at least three days before you get before you get a contact sheet to them.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_06: Um but they but but nowadays, and then this is something I don't do, but this is something I've seen other photographers do, but sometimes I go to I go to nosy or other famous photographers and I'm gonna see what they do, and and uh and and and uh and and you see, let's just say a famous subject photographer hunched over their camera with a tethered laptop, a publicist or four above the laptop killing the shots they're taking.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_06: And surely there's an element that a photographer needs an element of control over he decides or she decides or they decide what is kept or what is not seen, not killed, because I have now a backlog of negative that I do contact shoots from.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_06: If they were killed by a publicist or manager or an assistant, uh some of this gold dust I created of uh for these people have never died, like Heath Ledger, for example.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah I did some amazing shots of Heath that I'm sure if his people would have seen them, two-thirds of them would have been killed because they didn't look cool.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_06: Now, every single frame, you can see a little bit of Heath in everyone, and and I know everyone loves them.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_06: And and um the I done this one shot of uh De Niro, and we were going through them with these shots, and but because I knew I wanted a context sheet, so when I do a purposefully contact sheet, I I give them, I say, okay, I'm gonna do I'm gonna do 10 shots quickly.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_06: Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, ten shots, and you've got a free reign to do whatever you want, they'll be displayed as uh nine, ten shots in one picture.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_06: And um and and so Devero said uh or Bob said, I was allowed to call him Bob.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_06: I and uh and so Bob said, you know, how about I just give you some cranky faces?
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_06: I said, Great.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_06: I said if you're happy to do that, so I said, Are you ready?
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_06: Give me two, one go.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_06: One, two, three.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_06: When he got the shot four, there's a knock on the door in order to cappuccino, so we had to stop.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_06: His cappuccino came in, so he sat down and had a couple of sips.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_06: So I said, Okay, um I think before we get started again for the last five shots, I'd have to ask me a question.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_06: And I said, So, Bob, do you get really upset with people doing that impression of you from taxi driver?
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_06: Uh that famous, you're talking to me, you're talking to me.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_07: What can I do?
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_06: And he said, Um, no, but have you seen Al Pacino's impression of me?
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_06: I said, no.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_06: So then he pulled this over-exaggerated face of Al Pacino's impression, uh, which I photographed.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_06: So this picture is De Niro, the impression of Al Pacino, the impression of De Niro.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_06: And and I know, and because it's such a grotesque, I know a publicist would have killed that.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_07: Yes.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_06: That's become one of my most iconic pictures.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_06: And and and and and so and so that that's so the point I'm trying to make is I think every time a photographer gives click, that's it in his repertoire.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_06: Then from that, you decide the kills, you don't kill them live, you don't get rid.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_06: Well, people say photography isn't art, it's it's it's not it's not artistic.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_06: But I think looking back at some of the masters, what they have created uh are masterpieces, and there's photographers working to today, uh young photographers who are making absolute masterpieces, and if they're not allowed to create art and keep this art and to be celebrated as art, um I think that that's quite sad.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_06: I'm not sad as a cool way of saying not great, but it is quite upsetting.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_06: It's it's it's not and I I'll I'll say one other thing.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_06: Um, there's an art critic called Brian Sewell.
• 52:29
  David McClelland: Very well known.
• 52:30
  David McClelland: Brian Sewell, yes.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_06: One of his last put downs he ever did was about me.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_06: And I went I went I went to his his book launch in Fortner Masons, is his last book came out.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_06: Uh and I went to it because I was invited with Steam Fry.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_06: I we we I I went to that.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_06: And Brian Stewell, who made it obvious for a long while he didn't really like my work because he didn't like the fact.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_06: He didn't he thought I didn't make an effort because others I didn't I didn't retouch, I didn't I didn't I wasn't Cecil Beaton basically.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_06: Um he wanted every photographer to be a Cecil Beaton kind of character, or or you or a cash kind of character, which I wasn't.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_06: He clocked me coming in his book launch, and he was in the mid-conversation, I could see his eyes following me around the room, and he waited till till I was an earshot.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_06: And he said, Ah, Andy Gots.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_06: He used to photography what what Larry was for painting, and uh because he hated LS Lowry.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_06: Andy gotz is typography what Larry was for painting, and and and and then uh he uh passed away uh issue uh about a month later.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_06: But what I love about that about that specific thing was I love Lowry.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_06: I love him and and I love the fact when he came to London and he he done a show in London, people said, but all your work's the same.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_06: Um don't you think you should change it?
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_06: And he's no, he's he's a that's how I shoot that that's how how I paint.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_06: And that's that and and and it's like people said to me in the beginning of my career, so let's say mid-90s, going to late 90s, I had to take my my portfolio around the uh uh magazines like the face and gq and these uh ID magazines, you know, in the 90s, knocking on the door, going around Soho, and seeing them relief through my pictures.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_06: I don't know.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_06: Do a lot of black and white, don't you?
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_06: Everything I do in colour, and and and well but I like black and white, and and and and all through my career, people have tried to get me away from doing what I actually like to do.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_06: And this is this is what I try and tell students that I try and photograph for what I like.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_06: It's like if you go to a college or university and you only shoot what your lecturer, what your professor tells you to shoot, you'll end up being a mini-version of them.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_06: And I remember I when I was I've done a couple of courses, I've been lucky, I've been fortunate to be able to start my life when there was a monetary system where you got grants and you got things paid for.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_06: So my first degree I I went to, the course leader was a documentary photographer, and the two course uh uh lecturers were fine art photographers, so my portraits didn't fit in documentary or fine art.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_06: So everything I'd done was wrong, right?
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_06: And they uh that's uh and uh and my marks were pretty rubbish because uh and they said, Well, uh, why don't you do one without a flower behind the ear?
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_06: Why don't you do one with uh a female with a beard?
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_06: Why don't you do one with some people naked?
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_06: And I said, Well, uh that's not what I want to do, or or what why don't you do um a homeless person um um but by a brick wall?
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_06: Why don't you do and it's like I don't want to do documentary, I don't want to do it to do fine art, I don't want to do studio portraits, and I tried to tell or I tried to not tell, that's the wrong word, I tried to advise students, you know, if you've got an idea, if you've got an idea of a portrait, it could be an idea that you have seen it in your mind's eye.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_06: It's a bit blurry, it's a bit obje d'art, it's a bit not conventional, but if that's exactly what you want, how can it be wrong?
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_06: How can anyone say to you, no, that's wrong?
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_06: It's impossible because that that's your piece of art, and and and and this is what it comes down to, as I said earlier, is photography art, of course it is, of course photography is art.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_06: I did this shot of the lovely actor Andrew Scott, and I said to him at the very end of the shoot, Andrew, how good an actor are you?
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_06: He went, Oh well, I'd like to think I'm quite a good actor, thank you for asking.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_06: And and I said, But I am the kind of actor that can cry on command.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_06: Of course I can.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_06: And then he kind of looked a bit ashen.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_06: He said, You don't want me to, do you?
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_06: Uh of course I do.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_06: He said, he said, get your camera ready.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_06: And he looked at his feet, went three, two, one, brought his head up, and that precise second a tear rolled down his cheek, and I captured that.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_06: And that picture to me, yeah.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_06: That picture that picture to me, I look at that picture and I see a guy's heartbreaking.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_06: Uh and and I look at I I know it it wasn't, I know, I know it was a a made-up moment, but to me, and I know this film actors have told me to get that much of emotion, they need to go into a dark place to get that emotion.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_06: So so he must have uh got gone somewhere to make that shot.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_06: So to me, that wasn't a paid shot, that wasn't a commercial shot, that's a shot of captured something that I think is quite special, and I think that shot is gonna be around probably longer than me.
• 58:48
  David McClelland: I know the very image you're speaking of, and I think that Andrew Scott is such a fantastic actor, and and you make the point there that you know you could look at it and say that's fake, particularly if you know the backstory as you just told it, that the skill that Andy has is you're right, a good actor will go to a place where those teal where where those tears and more importantly the feeling behind what's caused those tears is real.
• 59:16
  David McClelland: That's the skill of a good actor.
• 59:18
  David McClelland: So it's not a a fake shot that there are some real feelings there that you have captured, that vulnerability in that moment is incredibly, incredibly real.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_06: And it's true, it's it's um, it's like um any portrait I've done, um, there's an element where I've captured the moment.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, that's that's an obvious thing to say.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_06: Uh I mean Henry Cartier Bresson was saying that, you know, a millennia ago, he was saying, you know, there's the the decisive moment when you when you choose to capture the moment.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_06: But in all my photo shoots, there's an element where I can feel we're building up to a something.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_06: I feel whether I I'm getting them in a comfortable space where I can ask them to cry.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_06: I can I know I can twist them a little bit and make them laugh.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_06: And I know I'm getting to that point where it can go either way.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_06: I uh uh and and and so figuring out whether I want a happy or a miserable or a quirky shot, it's almost like you're climbing a mountain and you can see the peak, and you're almost there.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_06: It's almost like you get a high, you get a rush.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_06: You could almost because even though I'm shooting digitally, I'm treating my camera like it's film.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_06: I'm not going bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_06: I'm not I'm not doing a thousand shots.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_06: I'm going click and wait and click and wait.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_06: And so I'm not overshooting.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_06: Like I mean, a lot of people just literally have the finger on the trigger and do like a thousand shots.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_06: I don't, I, I, I, I, and so I'm waiting and I'm waiting for that decisive moment.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_06: I'm waiting, I'm choosing when I'm going to go bang.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_06: And and it's like um, I'd done this great shot of Eliza Manelli, and she told me because she had a stroke, and and a side of her face has fallen, and she's she only looks good when she when she laughs, and so that was in the back of my head, and and and and and so and and so um we were going through the whole rhythm role of the starting process, the building up process, the getting there, and I could feel the little flush on my heart we get into the moment where I know she's becoming a bit putty, she's becoming a bit malleable.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_06: So I told my really, really rude joker.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_06: I know one rude joke.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_06: This one rude joke, very rude joke, I know, and I told it, and this roar come out of her mouth, this laughing roar, and I took three shots, and one and she's got her eyes closed and open mouth, mid-laugh, and that shot to me it's it's just a joyous, a joyous picture, and that's another shot that you know.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_06: I think I could make a little portfolio of like 20 shots that I've done.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, I've photographed more famous people than any other celebrity photographer.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_06: I've shot over 7,000 actors in my career.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, and and and so I so I could literally use 20 portraits that I feel sums up me.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_06: And you know, hopefully in a hundred years' time, two hundred years' time, people can look back at my work and see that's exactly how Al Pacino looked because there's no editing.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_06: So you can see his wrinkles, you can see his his sty, you can see you can see um uh Scarlett Johanneson has got pimples on her forehead.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_06: And I said to her, I'm not gonna edit them out.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_06: So do you want to wait till they go?
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_06: And she went, No, Andy, I'm human.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_06: I want young girls to see I've got flaws.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_06: So so so so there's there's elements of truth in every picture I've done.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_06: One little little mini anecdote about Brad Pitt.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_06: And I shot Brad when he was doing Troy, and during the filming of Troy, he only had two days where he had lighting tests.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_06: So in these two days, the press people are allowed to get in basic shooting, get in people, and so Annie Liebewitz came in for a fantasy fair shoot on the Monday, and I come in for my degrees project on the Tuesday, and it was the same room, it was the same lighting because we had to use studio lighting, yeah, and and and Annie, God bless her, Annie was there with her forty assistants and hair and makeup and everything.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_06: Day two, it's Annie the camera.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_06: That was it, and and so uh Tuesday, knock at the door, Brad come in, looking over my shoulder.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_06: Um, isn't this the the photo shoot?
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_06: Well, I said, Yeah, oh uh aren't they here yet?
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_06: Um, because I've I've only got this or I don't know.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_06: I I'm ready to go, I'm Andy, I'm I'm ready.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_06: Uh it's just you.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_06: And he couldn't get over the fact it was just me.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_06: And we did a photo shoot, and because it was just me there, we just talked and we uh and we were there for a lot longer than we should have been.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but I was told I had 11 minutes, not 15, not 10, I did 11 minutes, and um half an hour later, we were still talking about you know um Jennifer Anniston.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_06: Um we were just talking about stuff.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_06: Um and then other the anecdote I want to lead on to was we'd we'd arranged to meet to show him the pictures.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_06: He said to me, uh let's meet up for a beer.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_06: I'll bring Annie's picture that Annie took the day before, you bring your picture, and we'll compare, we'll try contrast and compare.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_06: So we sat there with a beer.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_06: Look at the at the pictures, and you'd and you'd Annie's fantasy fair front cover, beautiful picture.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_06: It was literally stunning.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_06: And there's my picture of a very silly looking brad.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_06: And he said, Andy, look at Annie's picture, what do you see?
• 1:06:30
  David McClelland: And that brings us back to the point that you made right at the beginning of our conversation about why you why Andy got this.
• 1:06:38
  David McClelland: And it's about that truth.
• 1:06:41
  David McClelland: It's about that trust as well.
• 1:06:44
  David McClelland: And there's a lot of that clearly in your images, and that's a strong reason why people will come back to you time and time again.
• 1:06:53
  David McClelland: But very, very finally, you are speaking at the photography and video show in London this March with a good folk from Hanemuler.
• 1:07:00
  David McClelland: What kind of stories will you be weaving for visitors to the show there?
• 1:07:04
  David McClelland: More of the same, I hope.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_06: I mean what good fortune it is that this year is the 20-year anniversary since the launch of my book of degrees.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_06: So that's uh um my little half an hour hour talk uh on the on the on the Sunday will be um about the book.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_06: It'll be anecdotes from the book, the idea of the book, and then um there's some lovely anecdotes of uh famous people that were shot for the book, and one of them will be How I Nearly Killed George Clooney's pet duck.
• 1:07:43
  David McClelland: I can't think of a better place to leave our conversation right now and to tease people to come along to the photography and video show between the 8th and the 11th of March.
• 1:07:53
  David McClelland: Andy it's been a real pleasure to chat with you.
• 1:07:56
  David McClelland: Thank you so much for joining us here on the podcast, and I look forward to seeing you in London in a few weeks' time.
• 1:08:02
  David McClelland: Thank you.
• 1:08:03
  David McClelland: No pleasure, thank you.
• 1:08:08
  David McClelland: There are more than 500 talks and demos from professionals, experts, and educators across the four days of the show.
• 1:08:15
  David McClelland: Here are just a few of them.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_04: Hi, I'm Charlotte Fellamy.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_04: I'm a creative landscape photographer using intentional camera movement and multiple exposures to create the images I see in my imagination.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_04: I really look forward to the London photo and video show and having a chance to inspire many of you when I speak on the behind the lens stage on Sunday morning.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_04: I'm also really looking forward to catching up with so many of the other presentations and also meeting my inspiration, David Duschiman.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_04: I'll see you there.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I'm photographer David Duschman.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a wildlife photographer based on Vancouver Island in Canada.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_00: But what I am most passionate about is teaching photographers to access their creativity, to make photographs that are not only good but are truly their own.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to be speaking at the photography and video show, and I can't wait to be there.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_00: What I am most excited about is not only having some impact, but having some conversations.
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to meet you.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you there.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, I'm Emma Dunham.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_02: I am a multi-award-winning food photographer, founder of the Food Photography Academy, and the author of the Savvy Food Photography Diary.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm really looking forward to coming to the show this year to meet all the food photography enthusiasts and chat all about food photography and styling.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_02: Hope to see you there.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_05: Hey, I'm Kirsten Nutz, and this year at the photography show, I'm bringing my signature three heads in a row shoot life to the stage.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_05: I'll show you step by step how to create quirky and off-the-ball portraits from lighting setups to posing techniques.
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_05: Then later that day, I'll take those shots and walk you through the post-production process over on the editing stage.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_05: It's your chance to see the full workflow from behind the camera to the final image.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_05: And whilst you're there, check out the latest gear, tons of education, and meet loads of people.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_05: I can't wait to see you there.
• 1:10:21
  David McClelland: And that is quite enough for this month, I think.
• 1:10:24
  David McClelland: Big thanks to Hazel, Andy, and to all of our speakers.
• 1:10:28
  David McClelland: Don't forget, photography show.com, hit that get tickets button on the top right and use that pod TPS25 discount code to bag yourself some bargain tickets.
• 1:10:41
  David McClelland: If you want to get in touch, then the official show Instagram account is at The Photography Show.
• 1:10:46
  David McClelland: And if you want to drop me a line, I'm at DavidMcClelland TV.
• 1:10:51
  David McClelland: We'll be back at the beginning of next month with more news, interviews, and last minute updates on the in person show.
• 1:10:57
  David McClelland: But until then, bye bye.