Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / Ep. 226 ~ Oooohhh...THAT Rifle

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Ep. 226 ~ Oooohhh...THAT Rifle · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

0:14
Everything is going to hail down here in Dactors. Oh yeah, what's up
1:07
everybody. This is episode two hundred and twenty Sexual of a Lone Gunman podcast
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Sins your host, big bad vibe with you. That's right when we're here
1:21
for another exciting episode with a Lone Gunming podcast on this fine beautiful spring day,
1:30
breathing the polyot Ah. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. That's
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what I'm talking about, folks. All right, today we have a fine
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show planned out for you. The first thing we're gonna get into, folks,
1:52
is a certain rifle. Now, Doug, my buddy, my brother
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from another mother, my co host of Quick Hits and the host of the
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Dallas Action podcast, has done a lot of work on a certain rifle known
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as the Johnson thirty six rifle owned by Gerald Patrick Hemming. This thing was
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a beast of a sniper rifle. And in the Warren Commission report, there
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are certain other reports, and there's there's one in there known as the Watley
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Report, the Dick Watley Report, and it kind of covers a little bit
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of the you know this Johnson thirty as six rifle and how Jerry Patrick Hemming
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and Lauren Hall pawned this rifle in California, in Hollywood to a private investigator
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that also owned a pawn shop, Richard Hathcock and his co worker Roy Payne.
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And the fact that the FBI were sniffing around asking questions about this rifle
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the day after the assassination would leave you to believe that they had this rifle
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in their possession and that for some reason, whether through fingerprints or somebody talking,
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figured out the providence of this rifle and who had been handling it recently.
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So fast forward, fast to forwardardum to the HSCA investigation. And I
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actually have a report here to Dave Marston of the HSCA from investigator Gaiton Fonzie,
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and it has to do with the investigation of this rifle of Richard Hathcock
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of Roy Paine. And I'm not sure if Dougs ever saw this or found
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out about it or talked about it. I can't remember. But we're going
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to do that here today, and then we're gonna also be diving into some
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other little tidbits and uh fun stuff. But let's get right into this rifle.
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Man. So this memo, I guess or report would ever you want
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to call it from February eighteenth and nineteen seventy six, so this is early
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on, early on. So he starts off like this, following up on
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the remote possibility that what Sylvia odeo in late September sixty three was a guy
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who had a mohawk haircut earlier in the year. I contacted Richard Hathcock in
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Los Angeles. He's working in an investigative branch of county government now. According
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to Mission Document one seventy nine, he was operating a store called the Adventurers
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Corner in la when Dick Watley came in early in sixty three with two other
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men, all three of whom were wearing green fatigues, and one of the
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men was wearing a quote mohawk haircut. Mission Document eleven seventy nine lists Watley's
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addressed as the same one that was used at the time by Jerry Patrick Hemming
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and Howard K. Davis checked the Bio Pauly article for Davis's interesting connections.
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Hathcox says that CD eleven seventy nine had known Watley for several years and when
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Lauren Hall and Jerry Patrick Hemming came in to borrow money on that thirty out
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six sniper rifle. They introduced themselves as friends of Dick Watley. Hemming confirmed
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that to me. I specifically remember redundantly questioning him about that, and aside
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in writing about the initial misidentification of the man Luker Carcano as a seven point
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six five German mauser by Deputy Sheriff seymour Witzmann, a former sporting goods store
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manager Robert sam Anson notes what makes the transmorgification of a large caliber German carbine
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to a smaller board Italian bolt rifle especially intriguing visited in the assassination of town
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up against General edgen Walker, which Marina had laid at the feet of her
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husband. The bullet, which was later declared two mangled from positive by identification,
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was originally identified as a thirty odd six, which happens to be the
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same caliber as a seven point six five millimeter or rifle bullet. Hathcock struck
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me as very open and cooperative in his conversation with me. He said he
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couldn't recall the names that the two other men who were with Watley, but
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he does remember that one of them was wearing a mohawk haircut. He said,
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the Time has naturally made his recollection hazy, and his conversation at the
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time was almost entirely with Watley. I remember him saying something about him knowing
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that they were going to be sold out at the Bay of Pigs, and
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that's why he got out of it. But he does think now that the
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fellow with the mohawk haircut was Latin looking. When I asked him if Angelo
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or Leopoldo could have been either of the as, he said he couldn't swear
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to it under oaths, but Leopoldo strikes a vague chord. It does sound
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quite familiar. I asked him if he might know where Watley might be now,
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and he said he hasn't seen him since the Time mentioned it in the
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report, but he suggested Jerry Patrick might know because it was through Hemming and
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Hall that I met Watley. I asked, you met Hemming and Hall prior
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to knowing Watley, and he said, oh, yeah, sure, and
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positive about that. I'm still trying to figure out the significance of why Hemming
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would lie about that. Hemming also obviously fed me some misinformation about the check
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that Lauren Hall left with Hathcock when he returned to pick up the rifle.
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Now, according to Commission Document eleven seventy nine, the check was drawn on
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the account of the Committee to Free Cuba. Hemming said that was an organization
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run by doctor Urso del Junco Cuban. When I asked anti castro activity himself,
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he said only in an indirect way. He said. There was a
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fellow named Matt Sevetic from Pittsburgh who years ago was an FBI format inside the
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Communist Party. He had gained recognition as a result of his testimony before a
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Senate committee. The Vedic said half Cock thereafter came out to California and with
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doctor del Junco and a few other prominent citizens, he had founded a committee
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called Free Cuba. Now, Hathcock said Sevetic had asked him to act as
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a pr guy for that for a while, and he did. He said
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he only went to a couple of meetings. And when I asked him if
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the Free Cuban Committee, what was what Lauren and Hall might have written a
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check on, he said, oh, no, I'm sure it wasn't on
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that. He had nothing to do with that committee. Halfcock may have been
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wrong about his recollection of the name of that committee. When I checked with
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doctor del Junko, he said it was called the American Committee to Free Qua.
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It was, as Hathcock said, a group imposed mostly of prominent Californians.
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Del Junker says he has absolutely no recollection of the name Lauren Hall and
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does not know Jerry Hemming. He's pretty sure the committee's account was at the
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Bank of America or the California Bank, or some other major bank. In
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fact, he says he has never heard of a Citizens Bank in the area.
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CD eleven seventy nine says the check was a Citizens Bank check. Doctor
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del Junko says he doesn't see how Lauren Hall could have had anything to do
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with a check involving his committee. He says his group was strictly a local
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organization and had no Miami connections, was not involved with Manual Artemy, and
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did not aid or fund any specific anti castro activity. Although his committee wasn't
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involved with any other Doctor del Junko did say he used to speak regularly for
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doctor Schwartz's Christian anti I mean it's crusade. He wasn't involved, he says
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with doctor Hargus, and when I asked him if he had any connection with
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Cuba. He gave me a definite no. So I think, despite what
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Hemming tells me that del Junco and his American Committee to Free Cuba as it
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did end as far as a connection with Lauren Hall goes. The question now
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is why the misinformation and where and what was the Committee to Free Cuba to
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which account Hall wrote to check against. Right now, I have two suspicions.
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One is the possibility of a link with the Free Cuba Committee that Hunt
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says was set up at Mullen and Company in the book Undercover, page one
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forty one. The other, less conspiratorial, is an association with Texas Oil
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man less Dir Logue, although I doubt Logue would set up a front since
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he contributed directly to Hall and Hemming and other right wing or other anti Castro
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groups. A third possibility is the Free Cubic Committee mentioned by Anson on page
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two fifty nine. That was a New Orleans group which supported Bringier and says
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Anson at one time or another attracted David Ferrio's David Ferrio, David Ferry Sergio
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or Coscious Smith and Gordon Novelle, and possibly even Oswald. The first possibility
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would be tough to check. I'll try to check with Logo on the second
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one if I can reach him. I'll check with Bringer on the third when
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I get to New Orleans. Meanwhile, I've also come up with some information
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that indicates that Hemming was strangely enough telling me the truth about one incident related
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to Hall. There is a Miami Police Department Inter Office report dated November first,
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nineteen sixty three, which indicates that Hemming reported that Hall had just stolen
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two guns from him. One was a Jungle Carbine and the other a Savage
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twenty two. However, the report also states that Himing claimed that his this
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same fellow, Hall had recently stolen a Johnson thirty six from him in California.
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Now it says here in parentheses hall did retrieve it from half clock on
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September the eighteenth. Now you see it, now you don't. And whatever
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happened to Dick Watley, Well, Himing told me that he was now working
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with the DA out of the CIA station at Homestead, the Air Force Station.
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So yesterday I visited at the DA headquarters here, which is a story
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in itself. The DA is housed here and something called the Phoenix Building,
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and a fancy new and large office center on the edge of the city.
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DA has the whole building an impressive modernistic structure which looks like the headquarters loving
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multinational operation, which I guess it is the office of the Deputy director.
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The guy I met with is larger than the senators. You can't help getting
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the impression the DA is a very special government agency. Deputy Director David Costa
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told me that there is no Dick Watley working for the DA, either as
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an agent or informant. So as far as Watley goes, I hit another
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stone wall. But my visit with Costa turned out not totally unprofitable. I
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came up with a letter, as you may recall, from Costa to the
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federal judge handling the Sturgist auto theft case and indicating the Sturgist had worked with
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the DA in a case involving a Magian narcotic smuggler that actually came about through
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his friendship with Jerry Buchanan, who was the inside informant on the case.
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You Cannon and his brother Jim were involved with Sturgists in putting out the phony
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Oswald in Miami stories. Interestingly, Kosta told me that it was Sturgists who
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approached the DA about working for them. He said he had a lot of
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connections into the Cuban community and would be able would be a valuable informant on
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drug trafficking. Costa said they turned him down as an informant because he was
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on parole, but they have used him one occasion to place their men into
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situations, with Sturgist providing the introductions. I specifically asked if Sturgist had provided
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any information about the drug involvement of Manual Artemy or any of his associates.
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He hasn't. That's funny because Pico, who himself is in contact with Artemy,
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and Meskill both indicated to me that Sturgist is still in regular contact with
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Artomy. But talking with Costa and his men who dealt with Sturgist, a
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guy in DA's conspiracy section named Bill Warner, I got the impression that they
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didn't consider Artomy a major figure, which is very contrary to the information and
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I have from other, but I think very informed sources. Costa says Sturgis
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was a very valuable because he helped make a case against the Fort Laudo Deare.
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Guy named Kenneth Bernstein, who was flying in tons of pot a week.
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We wanted Bernstein so bad we could taste it. As Warner put it,
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he had a big operation. It so happens that Bernstein was also an
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independent operator. If you think I'm implying something about an impression I'm getting about
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DA's operations, oh that's your paranoia, which brings up Mitch Werbel. CONSTA
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didn't want to talk much about Warbel because his trial is coming up March second.
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But if you haven't read it yet, I thought i'd point out some
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interesting things in that Burger clipping I sent you about Warbel. He remains a
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mystery character to me because of his long involvement with gun running, especially the
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possibility of his involvement with Joe Morola and Ruby's Rabbi Norman Rothman, and that
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added to the information about Ruby himself possibly doing some dealing, his association with
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Lt. Gray mass Farrar and the Haitian Caper and mass fars very close relationship
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with David Various pow Laudio Davalia, and of course his obvious links with the
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CIA. Points in the piece that fascinate me are Warbel's indication that he and
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Vestco were involved together in a CIA operation, possibly setting up a plant to
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produce assassination devices, Warbel's long and close personal relationship with Lucien Conine, the
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quote retired Ciage now running the DAS Special operations. Dave, could you check
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out Hunt's book about his meeting with Conine after the DM assassination and send me
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copy of reference please. Invesco's ability to call in two D agents to electronically
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sweep his home and the alleged bungling by the DA of an investigation of Vesco's
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involvement with heroin smuggling, now we tie all that in with Manual Artomy big
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man in the Bay of Pigs operation and Hunt's closest buddy now being a major
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figure in narcotics, with leaving Goods allegations that there's a link between the Artemay
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and Vestco, with the DA here indicating the day of no strong interest in
18:19
Artemy with they're just working with the DA, but not mentioning Artemy's involvement with
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drugs. If my sources know it, Sturre just must know it. With
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Conine's collusion with Hunt, de lay the DM assassination on Kennedy and thereafter get
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a key job with the DA, with Conine's relationship with Werbal, Warbal's with
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Vestcos, and back to Vestco's with Artemay. We obviously have only a latent
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image at this time, but it is sure looks like it has the possibility
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of developing into a full circle operation. All right, So let's get back
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to Richard Halfcock and Roy Payne. Interviewed by Gayden Fonzie. My name is
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Richard Halfcock. I once owned an operated Allied international detective agency at the time
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that we're interested in. My offices were at six seven one five Hollywood Boulevard
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in the Outpost Building. About two months before the JFK assassination in Dallas,
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two men came to see me in my office. One was Jerry Hemming,
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who was using the name Jerry Patrick, and the other man was Lorenzo Hall,
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who liked to be called Skip Hall, whose real name was Piscillo,
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which I understand is a Cuban name. These men came to see me one
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afternoon, dating as they had heard of me because my many years of undercover
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investigation of a communism on the state college campuses here when I worked for the
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Hearst Chain and some other activities anti communist activity that I've been involved in.
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They were here. They told me to raise money with which to buy medicines
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and equipment military hardware for a planned invasion of Cuba, that they were going
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to train troops in Guatemala, which they actually did. Later, they told
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me that they were dead broke and that they were going to be here for
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two or three weeks. They had some other contacts that they wanted to see
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raise money, but in the meantime they needed a hundred dollars. They wanted
20:27
to borrow the hundred dollars, and what they had for security was a set
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of golf clubs and a rifle which was a thirty caliber Johnson modified the semi
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automatic operation, which I believed held nine rounds and also was equipped with a
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thirty power bush nail variable scope. I gave them the hundred dollars, They
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left the golf clubs and the rifle, and for several weeks after that I
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saw both men frequently. Then my understanding was that Jerry Patrick had returned to
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Miami to set things in operation down there for the planned invasion of Cuba.
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What they had planned, essentially was to blow up some oil storage tanks on
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the West coast. Lorenzo Hall stayed here and was in the Private Eye office
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very often, almost every day. He told me that both he and Patrick
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had originally been in Castro's army, and they believed that he was really trying
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to free Cuba from Batista. That they had thought hard helped to put Castro
21:29
in power, and then found out that he was a communist, had no
21:33
interest in the people. Then they turned on Castro, with the result that
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both were imprisoned and sentenced to be shot. Both through manipulations and through friends,
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managed to escape and get back to this country. They showed me lots
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of photos, gave me documents, and I do believe what they told me
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about those things. Eventually, I say, Patrick went back to Miami and
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I did not see him after that. Shortly before the assassination. If memory
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serves me correctly, it was no more than ten days before the assassination.
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Skip Hall and a big fat Mexican man whom I've never met before and whose
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name I don't recall now, but I'm sure the FBI has it came to
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see me. They told me that they were going to Dallas to pick up
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some medicine. And some other material, and they wanted to redeem the rifle.
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They gave me fifty dollars, told me to keep the golf clubs,
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and I got a note signed by skip Hall that he had picked up the
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rifle, which I later gave to Jerry Crowe of the FBI. What happened
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to that rifle, I don't know. Jim Garrison showed me a photo at
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one time, and eight by ten enlargement which he said was made by the
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Dallas Morning News photographer seconds after the killing in Dallas. The photo showed a
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Dallas detective holding a rifle which was picked up on Daily Plaza. The rifle
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looked to me exactly like the one I had had in my office. I
23:17
have combed the worn report them to Thurn. I find no mention of that
23:22
rifle which was picked up in Daily Plaza. I also find no mention of
23:26
another rifle found on the second floor of the Depository building. Let me just
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reiterate that I found no mention of another rifle found on the second floor of
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the book depository building. I find no mention of that rifle which was picked
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up in Dealy Plaza. Skip Paul later told me that he had turned that
23:56
rifle over to a doctor friend of his in Miami. Jerry Patrick told me
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later that that was a damn lie that he had talked to Hall, and
24:08
as far as he could find out, that was a lie about where the
24:12
rifle was. But he told me that he had never recovered the rifle.
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The rifle was in my office all there's weeks and one of the gentlemen who
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worked with me in the detective business, Roy Payne, who was a gun
24:29
expert and a gun nut, assembled and disassembled and reassembled that rifle on numerous
24:34
occasions. And I'm sure that mister Payne can tell you a great deal more
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about the rifle than I can. The day after John Kennedy was killed in
24:47
Dallas, I received a phone call from Jerry Crowe, an FBI agent here
24:52
in Los Angeles, who asked if I had an agent working for me who
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was named Roy Payne, and I said yes. Jerry wanted to know if
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he could come by the office and see me and mister Payne when we arranged
25:06
for that meeting. It's my opinion that the reason he wanted to see mister
25:08
Payne was because Paine's fingerprints undoubtedly were all over that rifle from his having handled
25:17
it so many times. It's also my opinion that unless that particular rifle have
25:22
been found or in some way involved in this whole thing, the FBI would
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have no answers at all. And I think that we'd better let Roy Payne
25:33
pick it up from here. Signed on this date under perjury, under penalty
25:42
of perjury, that everything is true and correct to the best of my believe
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in knowledge, Richard Hathcock on March nine, nineteen seventy seven. So,
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folks, very interesting, now, this FBI agent mentioned to hear Jerry Crowe.
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It's interesting that the only copy of an FBI report done up by Jerry
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Crowe of the Los Angeles Office of the FBI is in some of A.
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J. Webberman's nodules, and it is a reproduction of the verbiage in said
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report. We don't actually have a physical copy of that report, at least
26:47
that I have found, or at least that I have not found yet.
26:52
So if anybody out there knows of the original Jerry Crowe report done one of
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remember twenty third, nineteen sixty three in Los Angeles, the details his meeting
27:07
with half Cock and Paign, let me know, I would be very interested
27:14
to see the original report, but so far we just have the ag Weberman
27:22
nodule to go on and good luck finding it. I believe all that that's
27:30
been since wiped off the internet. You gotta get on the you gotta get
27:33
in the internet time machine and way back machine and kind of dig through that
27:41
way to find it again. And it's daunting tasks. A good luck.
27:45
But if anybody knows where the original can be seen, let me know.
27:52
So let's move on to Roy Payne. What he said. My name is
27:59
Lee by Barton Payne. I was a co partner an agent gre Allied Industrial
28:10
and International Detectives with Dick Halthcock. Our office at the time of this occurrence
28:15
was at six five Hollywood Boulevard in the Outpost building. I have heard and
28:21
have listened to mister Hathcock make his statement, and I agree with him in
28:25
every aspect of his statement. And I will, to the best of my
28:29
recollection, account my experiences with Jerry Patrick and Lorenzo Pasio, alias Skip Hall
28:37
or Lauren Hall. I first met them when they came into the office one
28:42
in the Outpost building. And in the description of these two gentlemen Jerry Patrick
28:47
was tall, blonde, wearing jump boots and trousers tucked into the top,
28:52
very much a Joe Poluca type to skip. Hall professed to be an ex
28:57
Marine leave officer. I'm not sure at least this is what he told us.
29:03
Small, wiry, dark hair, olive complexion. He at one time
29:10
introduced us to his wife. I do not recall what her name was.
29:15
They lived in an apartment I believe in Monterey Park, somewhere near the State
29:18
College campus. They were out here on a speaking and fundraising campaign for going
29:23
back to Cuba, and as I remember, they were out gathering various types
29:27
of military at couture, moss weapons, medicines, so on and so forth.
29:34
How they obtained these weapons was not part of any information that was given
29:37
to mister Hancock or myself that they did tell me, or whether Lauren Hall
29:42
did tell me that he had his closest or he had his closet in his
29:48
apartment full of weapons, and that he was afraid the FBI was going to
29:52
come in there and raid the place and take him along, and they were
29:57
going to have to smuggle them out, and that they were getting ready to
30:07
go to go back to Cuba. He drew us a map of an inlet
30:11
on the shore south of Havana or near Havana that was the oil storage reservoir
30:18
and tank farm. It showed on this map to tank farm and several storage
30:22
docks. And what they had planned on doing was taking a boat to Kingston,
30:26
Jamaica, refueling and then going in as frogmen to take satchel charges of
30:32
plastic explosive and set them on the storage, tank farm and dock area and
30:40
destroy this the crippled Cuba by getting rid of all the food ship, getting
30:47
rid of all the fuel, oil, gasoline, etc. That was presently
30:52
being stored for Castro about I would say ten days, maybe a month somewhere
31:00
along in there, prior to President Kennedy's assassination here I am fuzzy on the
31:04
exact period. Oh, but Lauren Hall and a fat Mexican fellow came in
31:14
and redeemed the rifle. Now, this rifle I had been told that it
31:18
would, that it had gone on several Cuban raids in the past, and
31:22
knowing that it was very easy to modify weapons such as this to make it
31:26
fully automatic, and that it did have nine rounds in the chamber, nine
31:30
rounds in the weapon and one in the chamber, making it a ten round
31:34
weapon that could be fired automatically. I took the weapon and test fired it,
31:41
and then pulled it apart to make sure it had not been tampered with.
31:45
It had not, and with a straight semi automatic weapon. It was
31:48
a Johnson semi automatic, the thirty out six, with a thirty power variable
31:53
bush nail scope, very much like a telephoto lens on a camera. I
31:59
was say that this weapon, properly sighted in, could put a hole in
32:05
a dime at five hundred yards that folks as a hell or a rifle.
32:15
The bullets he'd be fired as fast as one could pull the trigger ten seconds
32:22
ten rounds or less. They picked this weapon up and signed a note that
32:25
they had picked it up as I was president in the office when these two
32:30
gentlemen were here to pick the weapon up. Approximately the next day or two
32:34
they left for Miami. I made the stake to this, Lauren, though
32:38
we'll be reading about you in the paper. Well, Dick and I went
32:44
about our business as normal as far as the agency was concerned, and didn't
32:47
really think about them except to say, well, we haven't heard anything.
32:52
Five days prior to the assassination of President Kennedy on a Monday, mister Patrick,
32:59
I mean, excuse me. Mister Hall was in Hollywood, California,
33:04
in front of our building talking with mister Hathcock, and I stopped and talked
33:07
to them, and of course I said, well, why don't you come
33:10
over and let's go get a cup of coffee and tell us what happened.
33:13
And he said, well, no, he says, I've got to make
33:15
the plane for Dallas. The situation with mister Hall is that he stated to
33:22
me when I asked him, well, you know what happened during the situation,
33:28
We didn't hear anything, and he said, the CIA confiscated and arrested
33:31
everybody at a boat in Miami. And I asked him at that time why
33:36
he didn't get himself arrested also, and he said, well, he was
33:39
on the dock and cannot be connected to the situation. They didn't have any
33:44
evidence against him, so they'll let him go. I'm going to make an
33:50
assumption now, or a relatively educated assumption, that the CIA is not an
33:55
arrestive body, nor are they an international nor are they an internal United States
34:02
Intelligence Agency functional agency. This I did not recall. It just didn't make
34:16
any sense to me until later. Of course, Friday, I believe November
34:21
twenty second was the assassination. That Friday was the assassination. At noon in
34:25
Los Angeles our time, and the next day I received a phone call from
34:30
my business partner, Dick Hathcock, telling me there was a gentleman coming into
34:34
the office that wanted to talk to us. That gentleman was the special agent
34:37
of the FBI. The man named Jerry Crowe, who was still presently at
34:42
the FBI and at the Los Angeles Field office. Mister Crowe came in and
34:46
I opened the door for him, and he showed me his identification. He
34:51
had a big bundle of papers with him and a large Manila envelope. He
34:55
introduced himself as at high my name right, and I said, Hi,
35:01
my name is Roy Payne. Come on in. I introduced him to mister
35:06
Hathcock, my partner, and Missus Hathcock was there also, and he put
35:10
his bundle down on the chair in front of the desk and took some papers
35:14
out and said I would like to ask some questions about skip Hall and Roy
35:16
Payne. And I said, well, I'm Roy Payne, so why don't
35:21
you ask me whatever you want to ask? He seemed rather surprised that I
35:24
was there, At least that was the impression I got. We discussed the
35:29
situation about what had occurred and what has gone on with Jerry Patrick, Hemming
35:35
and Skip Hall, Renzo Pio and so on. Then I did not see
35:40
him for quite some time after that. I did, however, find that
35:45
the FBI or someone was I can only make an assumption following me, and
35:50
did tail me for some months. After this initial conversation. We had a
35:57
next brother in law who was and not correct with this. He has deceased
36:00
now. His name was Harvey Burkey, who was the assistant Agent in charge
36:07
of the local field office for the FBI here, and asking to making an
36:10
attempt to ask Harvey what the heck was going on. Harvey refused to talk
36:15
to me, and I could not gain entrance to his house. He would
36:19
not answer the door, nor would his wife or his children. There was
36:22
on one occasion I did run into Harvey Burkey outside my office with mister Hathcock,
36:28
and he did not want to talk to me at all and excused himself
36:30
and said he had to go. I did. Within the week after the
36:35
assassination of the president, had occasion to go to Palm Springs. I believe
36:38
it was on Thursday, and I stayed in a small motel. Upon entering
36:42
the town about three o'clock in the morning, had occasion to see two gentlemen
36:46
but through my vehicle pretty thoroughly, and they had keys to enter and to
36:52
go through the car. They went through the glove compartment, and I'd had
36:55
evans prior to that that my vehicle had been entered and searched, as well
36:59
as our offices, which then had been moved to Allied detectives moved to sixty
37:05
six oh five Hollywood Boulevard. On the third floor. We had Sweet three
37:08
ten which covered several rooms, and we did have a system to show whether
37:15
our offices had been entered, such as seeing as we had the only keys
37:19
and our offices had been entered in the files have been searched several times.
37:22
We feel or I feel that our telephones, both at home, the answering
37:27
service for the office, and both of our homes had been tapped. This
37:32
went on for several months, and next night, Saturday, after the assassination,
37:39
I had to drive to Santa Montica. Santa Monica. Sorry, there's
37:46
no tea in Monica. It was there overnight. There were three vehicles that
37:52
followed my car up to PC all the way up to Santa Monica, and
37:59
then me up the next day when I went through several of the small towns
38:01
in the rural area and ended up on High In ninety nine which is now
38:06
on five, and then came back to the ridge route. The same subject
38:10
vehicles that followed me on the next day after the assassination were the same vehicles
38:15
that I saw in Palm Springs for the week later, along with the same
38:21
gentleman that were in them. Like I said, this went on for some
38:24
time two to three months after the assassination. One afternoon, about ten days
38:31
or two weeks after the assassination, at about four thirty in the afternoon,
38:35
I received a phone call at the office from Lauren Hall, and I said,
38:38
hey, buddy, you better have a lot of witnesses because you were
38:42
in Dallas at the time of the assassination. And he said, I've got
38:45
witnesses to prove that I was right in the middle of the lobby of the
38:49
Hilton Hotel and a hundred people know I was there, and I was nowhere
38:53
near Dallas. When Kennedy was assassinated, the District Attorney of New Orleans,
39:00
Jim Garrison, came to California with an order and request to extradite two gentlemen.
39:06
One was from Burbank. The other gentleman was Skip Hall, the same
39:10
man. In a newspaper statement that mister Hall had made, he stated that
39:15
he had never been in the state of Texas yet. He had told me
39:19
that he had gone to Texas, that he was leaving that Monday prior to
39:22
the assassination to go to Dallas specifically, and that he had a hundred witnesses
39:28
in a hotel to show that he had been in Dallas, but nowhere near
39:31
the assassination site. So let's see here. I've never heard again from Lauren
39:37
Hall. He had never made any attempt to contact me or call me.
39:42
He did tell me at the time of this one phone call that several attempts
39:46
had been made on his life, that his car had been bombed once or
39:50
twice, and it had been blown up. He said someone else had started
39:54
the vehicle and had blown up with it. I have no direct knowledge that
39:59
there was an automobile obambing. I've never pursued the situation. I did on
40:02
one occasion go and drive out to visit Jerry Patrick Hemming who was living somewhere
40:09
down the San Bernardigo Freeway in Monterey Park, Montabello. He discussed me at
40:16
the time about turning over the rifle to them, and he didn't like the
40:21
idea that the rifle went down there to Dallas, since he felt it was
40:24
his rifle and the golf clubs that were also hockey at the time the original
40:29
meeting were Lauren Halls and that the rifle was his. And other than that
40:34
particular conversation, I never had any further contact with Jerry Patrick, no further
40:38
contact at all with Lauren Hall. I understood that you've been living somewhere in
40:43
central California for a period of time in a compound type area and operated a
40:49
bar or cocktail lounge or a beer bar or tavern in the downtown area.
40:55
Then I understood later from Dick Hatscock that he is now back down here in
41:07
southern California and is living somewhere in the Monterey Park Montabello area and has been
41:13
in and out of the hospital once or twice. But other than that,
41:15
I have no direct knowledge to bring situations up to date. I declare,
41:20
under penalty of perjury the above is true and correct to the best of my
41:24
knowledge. Le Roy Barton Payne, March nine, nineteen seventy seven. So,
41:34
folks, interesting stuff here and a little more light shed on the thirty
41:44
six rifle that had been allegedly found a Daily Plaza. And now we have
41:52
an air specific area second floor of the school book Depository with Roy Payne and
42:02
Lauren Hall's fingerprints all over it. I mean, why else what have they
42:08
have been? Would the FBI have been in California the day after the assassination
42:14
wanting to know the whereabouts of Roy Payne and Lauren Hall if they didn't actually
42:21
have the rifle. But if you go back and you look at the official
42:27
documentation from that day, good luck about them finding a thirty odd six rifle
42:35
anywhere in Dary Plaza or the school book Depository. And what happened to the
42:44
rifle? Very Hemming told half Cock that he never got the rifle back.
42:52
That he said Hal gave it to some doctor or dentist in Miami. But
42:54
that was a lie. Heimming said he never got the right full back.
43:00
Now, if the FBI had got their hands on his rifle and it was
43:04
found in Daily Plaza or in the book Depository, I highly doubt that they
43:10
would ever give that rifle back to Jerry Hemming. Ever, so interesting stuff
43:21
there, moving on. Next up, we have an interesting letter that I've
43:30
come across to Jim Garrison in July nineteen sixty seven from one Captain Valentine Ashworth.
43:52
Mister Garrison, Sir, my name is Captain Valentine Ashworth. I am
43:59
a white mail aged thirty six years old. I am an airplane pilot and
44:06
have been referred to depress at different times and in different countries as a mercenary.
44:15
I am now hired and affiliated with the Cuban Radar community in the capacity
44:22
of an officer with the rank of Captain. Cuban Radar Command is the Air
44:30
arm or the People's Revolutionary Cuban Army, now training here in the United States
44:36
with headquarters in San Juan, Puerto Rico. I am also affiliated with the
44:42
a R A, a communications outfit mainly training there in New Orleans. I'm
44:52
not going to read the whole thing, just the juicy pots, folks,
44:58
He's associated with Manion Manny, Manolo Ray, a Manny Fernandez, and a
45:06
Herman Fernandez and all the other Cuban exiles. Manuel Ray was a famous nightclub
45:16
entertainer in Havana. Then later he was the first Minister of the Public Works
45:22
and Utilities under Castro until he had to get out of the country for helping
45:28
exiles. Mister Garrison, I am telling you what I consider will be enough
45:36
to convince you that what I'm telling you is authentic. The reason I'm telling
45:42
you anything at all is because there has been two attempts made on my life
45:49
since you have started your investigation, Sir about Kennedy. Mister Garrison, I
45:57
know Lee Harvey Oswald. I first met Oswald there in New Orleans. That
46:05
was before he went to Russia. Oswald and myself were both trying to join
46:15
the Cuban exiles at that time. I can show you the ball where I
46:21
first met Oswald and where we ruined that for a while. They're in New
46:27
Orleans. Then Oswald and myself went from New Orleans too, somewhere lumbers try
46:52
together to try to join the Cuban exile army. I can show you the
46:57
motel where we stayed in Columbus, Ohio, and where all we went there.
47:09
That is where I first seen the man that somebody called clay Shaw.
47:22
Harvey knew him then because he talked to him and some more men. The
47:30
next time I saw Oswald and clay Shaw was in New Orleans. That is
47:36
when I seen most of the other men that you mentioned in your investigation that's
47:42
sitting listen to them talk in a bar there, mister Garrison. I know
47:47
definitely there was a plot made on Kennedy's life, but I did not take
47:57
it seriously at the time. I know the Quban Exiles was involved in the
48:05
plot. It is my contention and conviction that the Central Intelligence Agency was involved.
48:21
But to what extent they were involved, I don't know. I don't
48:28
know, mister Garrison. I have respectfully renounced my citizenship ever since nineteen sixty
48:39
three to the FBI and the Justice Department, demanding to be deported from the
48:45
United States. You can check with the Justice Department and the FBI on this
48:53
and something I did not tell the FBI and the Justice departmentists. But I
49:07
want to be deported from the US because I fear from my personal security here.
49:17
I have contacted the Unamerican Activities Committee, requesting or are hearing before them,
49:23
to demand to be deported before the committee. Mister Garrison, if you,
49:36
if you don't mention my name to the FBI or the CIA or any
49:40
other law enforcement agency, if you can arrange from my immediate deportation from the
49:49
United States after my testimony, then I will take the stand and testify for
49:59
you. Sorry, this is handwritten and tell you all I know, but
50:07
I need to guarantee whatever requested I need to be deported, then I will
50:15
have to evoked the fifth If not and say nothing. This is the first
50:21
time that I've mentioned these facts to anyone before. I do so now because
50:27
I feel I must get out of the United States as soon as I can,
50:32
because I know now that there are people who think I know too much
50:39
in regard to your investigation about the Kennedy plot. If you can accept my
50:46
offer, or if I may don't know what that word is, then I
50:57
still request and expect your up most confidence on this matter my release. As
51:06
I have stated, there has been two attempts made all my life at this
51:12
time, mister Garrisons, Mister Garrison, if you wish to talk with me.
51:22
Then you can contact me through my attorney, mister Hardy Mark Mark Mark
51:31
Tell Parkerson nineteen oh one o'park Blevard Lake, Charles, Louisiana, phone number
51:39
four three six three three two one. I hope you will give my letter
51:47
your immediate and utmost attention and consideration, Very sincerely, Captain Valentine Ashworth.
52:00
H okay, Valentine Ashworth, folks. I don't know. I don't know
52:09
how much faith you want to put in his letter the garrison, but there
52:15
it is. Apparently he met Lee Harvey Oswald before he went into the Marines
52:21
as a fifteen sixteen year old teenager, and they wanted to join the Cuban
52:23
exiles and actually took a trip to Columbus, Ohio for this reason. Interesting,
52:34
all right, And last thing we're gonna talk about today is Warren Reynolds
52:38
looks I don't know so according to his at last report, and this is
52:52
let's see, yeah, trying to look for a date here one twenty three
52:58
sixty four officers received a call to meet ambulance six O one A shooting five
53:15
hundred east Jefferson at Johnny Reynolds Motor Company. On arrival, Warren Reynolds,
53:21
a white male twenty eight, was lying on a couch in the office of
53:23
the Carlotte Office. Mister Warren Reynolds had been shot in the head and was
53:30
taken to Methodist Hospital by ambulance six oh one. Blood trails showed that the
53:37
complainant was possibly shot in the basement by the light switch box here. That
53:42
complainant came from the basement and fell on hood of car in front of office,
53:47
then entered the office and tried to use telephone and fell on the couch.
53:53
Mister Sonny Corty, Mister Sonny Corty, five North Jefferson, Room number
54:01
five, stated he heard one shot that sounded like a twenty two rifle and
54:07
ran to the front porch of his home. He stated the car light was
54:10
brightly lighted and observed an unknown male five foot five wearing a brown wearing brown
54:29
khaki pants in a blue flower shirt run by in front of the office and
54:38
south in the two hundred block of South Patton, carrying a rifle. Missus
54:44
Christine Jeffries of the two hundred block of South Patton something into the suspect ran
54:52
by her carrying a rifle. Sergeant Davis, five hundred and three or nine
55:00
At the scene, mister reynolds glasses were found broken on the floor of the
55:05
basement and a twenty two rifle bullet was found on the floor. Bullet and
55:09
glasses were taken to the lab. Johnny Reynolds of West five Mile Parkway stated
55:19
that he was at home and that his brother closes the lot at night.
55:25
Johnny Reynolds stated he had no idea what the shooting could have occurred over it
55:30
was apparent that Warren Reynolds had not been robbed. J. W. Robbins
55:37
found a blue shirt in laundry wrapping in the street between the two and three
55:43
hundred block South Patton. Unknown if this shirt is connected with the shooting.
55:47
Placed in property room under this defense number. The condition of Warren Reynolds at
55:52
eleven fifteen PM was critical an emergency at that time. The supplementary offense report
56:08
done by see when I have the officer's name, but it was done on
56:21
in January twenty six or three days after the shooting. On the twenty fourth
56:25
of January, this officer interviewed mister L. J. Lewis of seventy six
56:37
one six him he's a salesman at Reynolds car lot, and he showed this
56:45
officer of the basement in general area where the offense occurred. He said the
56:50
light bulb in the basement had been screwed out the night before. He had
56:54
no further info other than that. Other than that, this officer then interviewed
57:00
Johnny Reynolds, who was the comp's brother. At this time, he had
57:04
no info to give thus officer. One of the witnesses, Sonny Carty,
57:08
white male twenty five before twenty five. He's Jefferson, unemployed, was an
57:14
interviewed. He stated he was watching television and heard one shot in the direction
57:19
of the car lot. He ran down the hill to the balcony or hall
57:23
to the balcony and stated he saw a man running out the rear of the
57:27
car lot with a rifle on his hand. He stated the man had on
57:30
what appeared to be Khaki's in a blue sports shirt. It appeared to be
57:35
a white man and was small. The car lot was still lit up so
57:39
he was able to see good. He stated he saw Warren Reynolds stagger up
57:45
to the office. He also noticed a white colored compact car believes to be
57:50
a Valiant, was parked in front of the lot. By the time he
57:57
ran back through the hall and downstairs, the car was gone. It had
58:00
two men and a woman in the front seat. He ran over to the
58:06
lot and asked Reynolds what happened. All he would say was he didn't know.
58:10
This is all mister Carty knew. This officer had attempted to contact him
58:15
once or since, but has heard that he moved. This officer then interviewed
58:22
Eddie Benavides, a white male two one D seven Dolly and Garland. He
58:32
is a salesman at Douche at Douche's car lot across the street from where the
58:38
offense occurred. He stated he was in the back of the building and did
58:44
not know anything had happened until the ambulance and police arrived. His brother,
58:52
Donnie Benavides, also works on cars at the lot. He told Eddie that
58:59
he was working on a car and someone walked up and was standing around.
59:04
He thought it was his helper and chewed him out for just standing around and
59:07
doing nothing. This someone told Donnie to not get smart with him, but
59:14
then he rolled out from beneath the car and saw that it was not his
59:16
helper. He stated he did not get too good of a look at this
59:21
person. It is unclear if this person had anything to do with the offense.
59:27
This officer then interviewed mister Albert Shin, White, male, twenty eight.
59:34
He lives in the rear of Dudley's Funeral Home and works there. He
59:38
stated he rode in the back of the ambulance with the complainant and all the
59:44
complainant talked about to him was he asked for something that would make him easier
59:52
that he was hurting. Mister Shinn stated that he was bleeding very bad at
59:57
the time and seemed to be able to severe. This officer then interviewed missus
1:00:02
Christine Jeffries, White, female, Fury nine East twelfth, Department one oh
1:00:10
one. She stated she had just walked out to her car, which was
1:00:15
parked on Pattent, and she observed a man running down the street towards her
1:00:19
from that car lot. He had a rifle in his hand waving it as
1:00:23
he was running. He ran by her, but she stated she was so
1:00:28
startled that all she really looked at was the rifle. But then the man
1:00:31
appeared to be a small man about five five or five six, just about
1:00:37
her height, who could not decide if he was white or colored. He
1:00:40
did think that he had a cap one. He then turned on down the
1:00:45
driveway by the Jehovah Witness Church. It stated he turned right on Denver and
1:00:55
appeared to be running back toward Twelfth, but a car drove by and its
1:01:00
lights hit him. He then turned and ran back down Denver, which is
1:01:05
actually an alley. She cannot see how far he went because of the buildings.
1:01:08
This officer noticed that a vacant lot with a lot of trees and brush
1:01:13
beside the Oak Cliff Library. With the assistance of Detective Warner, he searched
1:01:17
the area, hoping to find the rifle, either in the brush or the
1:01:21
garbage cans of the adjacent apartments. It was not found there. Missus Jeffreyes
1:01:27
stated that her brother J. W. Robbins later found a blue shirt lying
1:01:30
in the street in front of her apartment. It's very doubtful this shirt had
1:01:36
anything to do with the offense. It had just come out of some laundry.
1:01:43
This officer then went by the Methodist hospital to interview Warren. He was
1:01:47
unable to do so, but didn't interview Johnny again. He stated that he
1:01:52
and Warren had some trouble with a colored boy named Gussie Lee Thomas who used
1:01:57
to work for them. This office or attempted to locate Gussie Thomas and traced
1:02:01
him down to ten twenty four Red Oak. At this time, Johnny was
1:02:06
contacted again and stated that he had been allowed to see Warren. Warren cannot
1:02:10
talk at the time, but he could not his head and answer to questions.
1:02:15
Johnnie found out from him that it was definitely a white man and not
1:02:20
colored. On January twenty fifth, this officer received a tip from mister Garry
1:02:27
Wigginton, who owns the Garci Chemical Company at one fifty two Express. Then,
1:02:36
when he came to work Friday morning, he noticed that his bookkeeper,
1:02:38
Lionel Carrie Rambo, white male, forty three, had spent the night in
1:02:45
the office. He was wearing a blue suit and had blood all over him.
1:02:51
He told mister Wigginton that he had been attacked by juveniles. He went
1:02:57
home. Another mister Wickington or his mother has had has been seen since.
1:03:05
Missus Rambo thinks he has left town and has a long record of drunkenness.
1:03:10
He is not a good suspect because of his size and dress. This officer
1:03:15
again interviewed Johnny Reynolds. He was allowed to talk to Warren that day,
1:03:21
and Warren told him that he had already pulled the keys out of all the
1:03:23
cars and locked them. He had then walked down to the basement where the
1:03:28
fuse boxes to turn out all the lights. He stated, he flipped on
1:03:31
the switch at the door for the light, but either the light wasn't working
1:03:40
order to burned out. He walked over to the fuse box and so he
1:03:45
reached for the fuse box, he was shot. And when he reached with
1:03:50
a fuse box, he was shot. He stated he didn't know at the
1:03:53
time if he was shot or shocked, but he remembers walking out of the
1:04:00
basement and up the stairs. As he was walking up the stairs, the
1:04:03
suspect ran up the stairs past him. All he noticed was it was a
1:04:09
white man and he had a rifle. He also noticed it was a small,
1:04:13
short man. At this time, the nurse that Methodist Hospital still would
1:04:17
not allow this officer to interview Warren. On the morning of Janus twenty six,
1:04:23
this officer had a prisoner in jail, Daryl Wayne Garner, white male,
1:04:28
twenty four. Now address they go, He was arrested the night before
1:04:32
in Topper's Cafe at three fifteen E's Jefferson for being drunk and was talking about
1:04:39
how sorry the Reynolds brothers were and that Warren had gotten what he deserved,
1:04:44
etc. When this officer interviewed him, he was told that he lived at
1:04:48
one thousand and six in one Bishop with his wife and two children, and
1:04:56
then he worked at Steven's car lot at seven and West Davis. Go damn
1:05:02
them, then, Reynolds boys are so sorry sons of bitches man that they
1:05:06
got what they deserve, So say Daego. Yeah. He again contacted Johnny
1:05:18
Reynolds and was told at this time about an anonymous phone call the day before
1:05:23
the offense. Pauler told him to go see Dago and then huh, he
1:05:28
stated the Dego's real name was Daryl Garner. Why don't you go see Daego?
1:05:31
Then you sorry sons of bitches. He didn't stay to the Garner and
1:05:36
come buy a lot the previous day with the fifty seven Olds trying to see
1:05:43
if he would if the Reynolds would buy it, but he did not have
1:05:46
the title so they would not buy it, leaving Daego extremely upset. Uh
1:05:58
so. Yeah. Now, the reason this was interesting to me is because
1:06:05
not only do we have, you know, somebody who allegedly witnessed whoever shot
1:06:15
Tippet running away get shot in the head, but also the mention of Eddie
1:06:24
Benavides, who was Domingo Benaviti's brother. Now Domingo Benavides supposedly saw the Tippet
1:06:32
murder go down, and his brother Eddie would be shot and killed a couple
1:06:40
months later as well, by two men and suits in a bar that was
1:06:45
frequented by people that didn't wear suits. You know what I'm saying. People
1:06:51
think that it may have been a case of mistaken identity, But was Eddie
1:06:56
Benavides killed because he saw who actually tried to kill Warren Reynolds. You know,
1:07:04
Eddie, Eddie State has this weird story. You know that he was
1:07:08
another auto shop right across the way from the Warrens car lot or the Reynolds
1:07:14
car lot, and he was working on a car and he thought it was
1:07:17
helper was standing there, so he made a derogatory comment about his helper and
1:07:23
the guy said, why don't you come on out in front of that car
1:07:25
then, motherfucker, and we'll settle this like two grown ass mans. Well,
1:07:30
maybe didn't go down exactly like that, but something like that to that
1:07:33
effect. And maybe he saw before or maybe he was there to take out
1:07:45
not Domingo Benavides at that time and realized that he had Eddie instead of domb
1:07:53
and then proceeded across the street to take out Warren Reynolds, another witness to
1:07:58
whoever got eighty Tippett. Anyway, I thought it was interesting for sure,
1:08:03
But whoever it was, it wasn't Daego. This song bitch was about five
1:08:09
foot five and a tiny man. Dago Daego was not a tiny man,
1:08:15
folks, He was a he was a big man. I was a confident
1:08:20
man, a ladies man, good looking, some bitch. He could pull
1:08:27
any piece he wanted to. And actually Daego and his two brothers took a
1:08:35
lot of detective tests and passed it. But what so, Yeah, there's
1:08:43
that. But anyway, that's it for this one. You find folks,
1:08:54
follow along on Twitter that The Loon coming seven. On YouTube, search for
1:08:59
the Coming podcast channel and subscribe and like and get a notification win a new
1:09:03
episode drops. Well, I'd really appreciate it if you listened to on a
1:09:09
podcast app that'd be great and leave a review. Tell me with a great
1:09:15
job I'm doing. Tell me how much of a deep shit asshole I am.
1:09:18
I don't care one star five, it really doesn't matter. Bring it
1:09:24
on anyway. That's it for this week, folks to it's your boy,
1:09:30
big bad vib ouch you waide Dawn. I got a job roll I was
1:10:02
I for you. I'm to save him at the time that I've my way,
1:10:09
they won't gone to no one after time and a rockery tray can run
1:10:15
down every print of the all in life a wal I'm barn and no one
1:10:20
has to sign all that I could say in that rim for you are croning
1:10:30
from my kids. Of all my friend and brother died in that rimb that's
1:10:39
gone on finding. But the darrage at your trouble brother my side, well,
1:10:47
I willn't always love you, never done away. I will be for
1:10:55
round bill time when I was a lone with my view so we I will
1:11:28
be fround bid in my grandma you were flowing from the kids of all my
1:11:38
friend and brother side in my grandma. That's also faring. But the damnage
1:11:48
I shall shall from star in my way, You