Latest / WoT Spoilers / The Itch, Shreds of Serenity, It Begins, It Finishes - New Spring ch7-10 - EP585

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The Itch, Shreds of Serenity, It Begins, It Finishes - New Spring ch7-10 - EP585 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast. All right,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: so chapter seven is the Itch and it has the
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: chapter symbol of the snake and the wheel. Very common
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: symbol in this.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Book, right right. A lot of prophecies and a lot
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: of leading two major events events.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I guess I'll read us in. The following
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: day brought still more names that met the criteria, and
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: in larger number, all with vague reference to Dragonmount for
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: the place of birth. Morain realized that she and Swan
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: would never see a name with born on the slopes
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: of Dragon Mount attached. The prophecies of the Dagon were
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: known to many people, though often known wrongly, especially among
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: the common folk, but the Mountain's connection remained in even
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: the most nonsensical versions. No woman would want to admit
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: that she had birthed a son who would channel the
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: power one day, with all that entailed the child of
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: her body doomed to madness and terror. How much less
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: would she admit to bearing a child who might become
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: the Dragon reborn. She could not deny Dragon Mountain entirely,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: or her acquaintances might call her on it. Yet near
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: the mountain or inside of it was safe enough the
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: child they sought would surely be hidden behind such a
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: half truth. And yeah, this is all very true. Does
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: preclude the notion that the mother died in childbirth, right.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: She never once thinks about the babies who kill their
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: moms on the way out and thus are being taken
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: care of by the father or an aunt or an
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: orphanage society or something.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: No, but I feel like the offer takes those people
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: into account by being like, bring forth the baby and
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: you get the money.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Oh, for sure. But she's not thinking about it. She's
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: always thinking like, I'm going to go interview some mother
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: and have to convince her that her child is a
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: dragon be born, and it's like, there is no mother
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: to convince in this case. You're hunting down a bachelor,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: so he grabbed a baby that he had no connection
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: to before he stumbled upon it in the snow.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Hey, hey, Tam is not a bachelor. He is married
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: to carry al Thor, and she has wanted a baby
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: for a while and just hasn't been able to have one.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: It's true, that's true. He is actually very married.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: Do not besmirch the name of mine.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: I forgot about Kyrie Althor because I'm a bad reader.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: His whole mother that like the dark one has her
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: soul apparently.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Right right, right, yeah, but still someone who has no
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: connection to the biological mother. Yes, and presumably bounces fairly
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: quickly from the battlefield because you know, he's not recovering
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: from the throes of giving birth and waiting to receive
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: this bounty, right like, he's out of there. So it's
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: just funny she's thinking about, like how to game out
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: talking to a mother, and it's like, yeah, the mother
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: in this case is going to be what over a
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: decade dead, even if Cary was the mother. She's like
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Rand's long since been orphaned in the mother department, even
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: if Kray was going to take on that story, like
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: carry's dead.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: So what do you think? So, I mean, one would
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: assume this is this is days after Rand's birth, because
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: I assume he was born at the moment of the
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: foretelling and found in the snow, you know, later that
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: day by Tam So where is where is he now? Right?
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: Because we assume he's retreating with the Ilian or army
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: after the war's over, right, I.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Would assume, So I would assume as soon as the
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: engagement's over, he's moving out with military precision.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: He's not lingering, but he's also returns to the Two
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Rivers with an infant. And so I'm assuming that like
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: once the war is over and they returned to Ilian,
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: he returns to the Two Rivers or does he say hey,
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: go back, goes back to camp, grabs carry and says
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: we're done, We're heading back to the Two Rivers now
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: that we have a baby, and doesn't return to Illio
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: at all.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, she would have been a camp follower in theory, right, right,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: because he met her out and about right, she was
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: not from the Two Rivers. He met her on his
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: travels and when he brings when he gets the baby,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: he goes back to his wife and says, look, I
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: found you a baby. I'm basically a stork now.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: Can we keep it? It followed me home, right, Yeah.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: So that implies that he picked her up en root,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: maybe as a handsome soldier, which means that maybe she
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: came along on campaign as a camp follower, or maybe
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: he met her as a camp follower. Maybe that's where
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: she was. Maybe she wanted adventure and went to follow
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: an army around and meet a cute soldier and then yeah,
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: maybe as soon as the war is over, he went
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: to his you know, commanding officer and said, I'm resigning, goodbye,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: thank you, fun war. I would like my exit bonus,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: and I'm going home with my new family, which is
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: probably very reasonable.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: They're probably shedding soldiers the whole way home, every one
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: of these armies, right, And.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: I assume that he would travel with them, right, because
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: to go from White Tower down to the army's going
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: to head down to Ilian and then he's going to
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: probably Debar. You know, They're going to head down the river,
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: one would assume, because that's the easiest way to get
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: south down the river erin In, and so then he
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: would probably disembark round Camlin, maybe Kyrie in that area,
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: and head west via road. So I kind of imagine
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: them staying with the army until the army gets to
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: the intersection of the erin In and like Kyrieen.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah sure, but still, yeah, he's going to head home, right.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: There's no tales of Rand and Karis like spending the
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: first five years of Rand's life on the road while
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: tam trails the army, right they head home?
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: No, And I think Ninive has memories of him returning
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: to the two rivers with an infant, right rand right,
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: So it has to be very soon, considering they have
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: to travel across a huge part of the continent, right,
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: the travel must have been you know, no more than
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: a couple of months, so one would assume there's no
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: real event anyway. So I'm just curious, like, what road
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: is he yawn? Like what road is he actually taking
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: to get away from all of these armies, and like
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: where should they be looking if they wanted to find
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: him as an infant, Probably with the Army of million
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: right for a while, at least at least until they retreat,
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: that's my assumption.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, and Tam would never have applied for
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: that bounty because you know, why would he. Right, He's
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: already packing up and leaving by the time the news
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: even hits him, and he's like, I found this baby
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: on the slips of Dragon Mount. I'm just gonna not
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna not engage with that. That's fine. I
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: don't need that Under gold crowns. I have a soldier's pension.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: It'll be fine. Well, so we got a shout at
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: Marsapan's comment a store instead of a heron. I should
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: have thought heron that's awesome.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: So she's sort of thinking, someone's got to go find
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: these babies, which, of course it's going to be her.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: Right, Someone's got to go interview all these women. Someone's
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: going to have to go out there and comb through
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: this apparently random list of women and find the real
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: dragon reborn. Clearly it's going to be her, Like, it's
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: so obvious that she's psyching herself up to decide that
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: it's her.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: It seems like the Ambuln sees her writing the names down,
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: sees the book she read.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: Oh yes she does. She might not be Farren, but
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: Tamra sees things right.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: I also, we'll get to it later, but one hundred
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: percent think that the book is also discovered in their
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: clothes later during the testing.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure we'll get there when we get there.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Okay, we'll get there when we get there. Well, anyway,
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: the parallels between their testing and the one with a
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: gwayin when she has the parallels are there. The parallels
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: are there. We'll get to that.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: But yeah, no, Tamra definitely sees that book, sees the
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: two of them being suddenly eager to do clerical work
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: and can do arithmetic she knows that two plus two
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: equals four. She still, though very carefully, does not formally
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: bring them into the search, does not ever acknowledge them
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: as is Sidi, who were part of her her cast
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: of hunters. She very carefully just walls that off and
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: just allows it.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Despite sending them to be messengers to all of her searchers.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: She's obviously including them, but like not doing it consciously
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: or in any official way.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: She manages to is to die prove her future torture
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: session for these two. Like part of her I think
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: knows that she is playing potentially a game with lethal
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: consequences for herself, and is just like, you know, I'm
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: just gonna I'm gonna leave that one off the books,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: even in my head. Even in my head, they're not
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: on the books. They just exist peripheral to all of this,
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: and that's convenient for them anyway. Moving on with homorline business.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: I like this line. Everyone knews who own's dislike of
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: clerical work, and she ends up being the amorline, which
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: is all clerical work.
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: She hates being inside, she hates paperwork, she hates being polite,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: she hates literally all of the things you need to
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: do to be Omrelin. But she's very good at the
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: subterfuge and the politics and the puzzles, which is why
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: you have an Omerlin, and that's why she gets strong
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: armed into it.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: We get to me Karenni.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Karine, who a lot of us were very confused
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: about when the TV show used her as a character,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: and it turns out and de bam, she is there.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: She is, yeah, I mean, except she dies in the
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: New Spring, which is why everyone's so confused when she
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: shows up in the TV show.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, this is true for so many of
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: the characters that they brought up in the TV show,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: so many of them. They were like, we're going to
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: be clever and pull names from New Spring that only
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: the real fans will recognize, but also then gives them
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: completely separate plots so that way they're nothing like their
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: real Spring counterparts. And it falls fat on its face,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: but whatever.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: And just just all the funny statements here, like from
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: the Green Oh my god, they're going to ride in
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: the forefront of the last battle. They're a fart in
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: the wind during the last battle. I mean, they're like
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: they're part of the attack. But the Green Aja ends
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: up being like less than fifty channeling sisters, which is
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: like just not that important of a force in the
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: last battle.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, so what we're doing is we're thinking about
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: the green right as we go to Korean's rooms. And
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: yet that this line I your paragraph, a couple of lines.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: It's so annoying. No Is said, I had ridden to
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: wars since the Trollock Wars, but when the last battle
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: came the battle, AJA would ride in the forefront. Until then,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: they fought for justice where it often could be obtained
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: only through their warters as swords. But that was just
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: what they did while they waited on tarmac Guiden, And
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: I'm like, the Reds are doing more training for a
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: battle than you. You're relying on your warders to do
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: all the work while you just sit and wait on
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: your general bad ass ory reputation for the last battle.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Why do you not train to I get not being
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: a ninja in rural villages. I get having your ward
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: more conventional violence, But like fart in the wind is
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: generous for what they contribute to the last battle. You know,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: the individuals who have made relationships through force and who
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: know how to use turungrial are far more effective than
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Green Aja battle formations and training.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: There's not enough of them for it to matter. Really,
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: they should be recruiting, right well.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: Even if I don't even care about the numbers, Like
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: the numbers is beside the point, Like they don't train
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: with the power to fight channelers. They don't train in
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: battle weaves, they don't do circles that allow them to
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: make the most out of very few channelers, right, Like,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: I'd be so much more impressive there was half the
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Greens with twice the training, Like it's they're just running
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: around being like, yeah, we're sexy and we know it
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: and that's totally gonna help.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Listen, polyamory takes a lot of communication, and that doesn't
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: leave time for a lot of things like training and jobs.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: And of time what communications.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: So yeah, there's just a lot of background about the
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: Greens and the ad Jaws and all that kind of stuff.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: And warders warders, warders orders, which specifically Rena Halfdan who
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: has the two orders Sparring Whalan and Elias. We get
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: to see Elias before he goes Oh yeah, Rena Halfton,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: who somehow made a square face lovely and a stocky
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: build both elegant and graceful was urging them these two
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: borders along with a wide smile, well struck Whalen, oh,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: very well struck.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: Elias nice catch.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: And I believe that he calls her Rena when he's
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: talking to Perrin later. I believe he does name her
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: in the mainline books. But uh yeah, here's Elias. One
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: assumes less than a year before his transition to wolfiness.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: I think this is I think that his persecution that
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: forces him to kill a warder, which I want to
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: or if it's his fellow warder here. I'm assuming that
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: happens during the Vileness, which again is like somewhere in
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: the next year or three, so he's about to go
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: wolf brother in the not too distant future.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: But he essentially is prosecuted and they try to kill
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: him because he is part of the vileness. He's part
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: of someone who might be lucky, who might have powers.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: They're trying to wipe him out in order to.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Get to rant right exactly. And he never says what
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: word he kills. But I can't help but wonder if
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: it was his co order who means smiling here, because
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: that would be the person closest to him who's like, brother,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: don't make me do this. This is a very tearful,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: terrible fight kind of vibe. That would just be the
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: most heartbreaking. He doesn't seem to feel very sad about
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: it when he talks about it later, so maybe it
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: was a different order, but you know, that would be
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: the most heartbreaking.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: She, by the way, becomes a sitter during the split.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: She's an older and she raises agwayin to Amberlin in
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: the gathering storm.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: So she's one of the loyalist sitters, yes, but she's
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: raised in the aftermath of the split. Is that the idea?
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Gotcha?
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: And here we get the mention of the itch that
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: is the title of the chapter, which is Moraine being,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: you know, at least half of us people who are
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: fans of the Wheel of Time.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm, something we don't know.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Once she identified something she did not know, the ignorance
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: became an itch on her shoulder blade just beyond reach. Like,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that describes at least half of us, probably
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: both of us.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: On this call, both for sure, for sure. When we
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: go to Karina's rooms, I did notice a blacksmith's hammer
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: with the head split, and I was.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so she's got artifacts on artifacts, and I also
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: noticed she's got a blacksmiths hammer, a single fat fire drop,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: which is like so close to a ruby, a.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Dagger's adorned with gems and gold mm.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Hmmah, and daggers with plain wooden hills, a lion's skull,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: a gauntlet stained with blood. Like there's just a treasure
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: trove of cool objects.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: But these objects all sound like they could be from
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: the Corinthian cycle, right, like the lion's skull, because you've
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: got the lion of and or you've got like a
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: bloody fist, you've got an axe for the blacksmith. It
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: sounds like she's doing Griathon cycle prophecy stuff and she's
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: just not on the right path or her timing isn't
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: quite right, Like she's looking for the broken blacksmith. She's
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: looking for something.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but then it's also like glazed bulls and vases
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: and pottery and they're just souvenirs of her travels. But yeah,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: it's like, sure, how is there not a tyrannreal or
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: a prophetic item or a token she's holding on to
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: because it reminds her of a fore telling she had,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Like how no it's just a random assortment of objects,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: or is it.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: Uh? We get two of her.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Orders Career who was not in the show, and Stepan,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: who was in the show.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Mm hm, who's your third order? She has a third one,
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: right does she?
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: I guess over her words?
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I didn't even think about that. I don't recall.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: You'll have to look that up elsewhere.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: I am on. It interesting, the at least from what
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: I can see, those are the only two orders that
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: are named. Even though it says of two of her warders.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: It does imply there's a third.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: It doesn't imply there's a third, right, that's with that
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: whole two.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Of Yeah, huh, slip of the pen.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Perhaps she reportedly fell off a ship in the river
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: during a storm and drowned. Again. Yeah, weird phrasing, but
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: it seems like that as far as we can tell,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: those are the only two that are ever named, Because
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: if those were her only two, I would assume the
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: phrasing would be Korean's two warders instead of two of
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Korean's warders. But those are the only two who are
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: ever named, So we got to move on.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, Korean is a wanderlust a did die right,
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: that's why she has all the artifacts, she has a
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: very efficient haircut, she's hardly ever in the tower, and yeah,
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense to her to be one
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: of the first ice to die for Tomra to reach
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: out to. Like, She's got all the personality characteristics of
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: being very thorough, very fair, very adhering to the law,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: and also loves to travel, so it's not gonna be
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: hard to convince her to leave and go on this mission.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: And the letter just that she's basically Morain is carrying
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: this letter to her that just as a summons one
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: would assume to you know, eventually give the information about
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: hunting the you know, dragon reborn.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because Tomra's not going to put any of that
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: in writing. It's just a summons for something very urgent,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: which you know, Moraine puts that together with that and
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Swan doing that taking similar message to a woman of
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: a different adja, with the same kind of adherence to
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: the law, Moraine takes those.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Two Aisha Ravenos.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Morain takes those two pieces of information and says
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: she's putting together a crack team of searchers that she's
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: sending out on a you know, super secret mission, and
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: that is, in fact, what's happening. Swan misses this one puzzle,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: but uh, that's totally what's happening. So what happens with Ayesha?
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: They try and differentiate between game of Houses and puzzles,
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: and I don't know if it feels like a distinction
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: without a difference to me.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's definitely a potato potato kind of thing
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: mm hm in my mind. Like, not all puzzles are
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: head games, not all puzzles are politics, not all puzzles
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: are geopolitical maneuvering. Some puzzles really are interlocking bits of metal.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Some puzzles are agriculture. But the way that the eyes
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: suld Die look at the world and use the terms,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: they are basically synonyms.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Because I would argue that the personality puzzle is a
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: subset of puzzle.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just saying, like, there's like human puzzles and
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: then there's like mechanical puzzles. Right, some of us are
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: very good with mechanical tactile puzzles and are horrible at
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: human head games and politics.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: This kind of feels like when she misses the fact
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: that all the sitters are young. I mean, she gets
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: that fact, but she misses why, and that why is
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: because everyone thought they'd just recombine the towers and they
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: didn't want to put permanent sitters in place that they
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: would have to fight to this unseat later, so they
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: put young girls in charge. And it's like she gets
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: the puzzle, but she misses the why. She doesn't understand
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: the reasoning that people have behind it. And I'd argue
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: that's also why she fails as or falls as an
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: amulin is she gets the solutions, but she really misses
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: the whys, like the why people do things.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: She doesn't really care why people do things. That's kind
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: of the thing with being headstrong and power strong and
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: then being politically strong is you don't have to care
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: why people do things because you can just make them
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: do what you want. And then you miss the part
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: where they're fomenting rebellion behind your back because they don't
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: want to do that.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: And that fermenting starts in these chapters with Elida.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: It does.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: I thought there was in this interesting parallel here where
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: they're talking about all this, you know, searches look for
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: the boy child, and she's like she starts off the
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: chapter thinking, if I'm quiet in the present of these sisters.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: They just don't think of me as important, and so
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: they'll talk around me. And then later they start talking
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: in front of servants because they're not important. And I'm like,
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: you're just doing it one level down. You're just lowering
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: your voice a little bit, you know, to acknowledge it,
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: but you are still talking in front of the servants
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: and just assuming that they don't matter because they're not listening.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's hierarchies all the way down.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: Again. Just love the parallels that Jordan put I again
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: love Letter to Jordan, even in New Spring, which I
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: might consider my least favorite of the Wheel of Time books,
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: simply because of the way it's structured and the way
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: it's the story it's telling right, Like the details he
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: puts in and the parallels and the callbacks and the
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: foreshadowing is always so good. I swear to God he's
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: doing it unconsciously.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: That's just how he thinks.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: That's just how he thinks.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Ye inner landscape, if his storytelling brain was like.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: He's always relating two unrelated things in a chapter to
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: each other, or bringing making parallels, or bringing things together,
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: or showing you just really cool analogies or really cool
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: parallels in a way that I just it's so detailed
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: that I can't This stuff is so good.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And then we get a list of names of
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: is to die, and I was thinking about how we
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: don't have to look any of them up because we
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: know what happens to all of them. They die in
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: this book. They all die mysteriously, this whole parade of
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: I said, I none of them makes it through categorically,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: that's the whole point.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: They're taken down by the Black Auja.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: And it's like several people, right, I think it's is
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: it twenty people or is it less than twenty? It's
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: a lot.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: It's it's like three what let's are you talking about?
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: I'm talking about the next day, Thomerson.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: Three more messages, Yeah, Marilyn Argania, Valerie Givorni and Ludis Danny. Wow,
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: I'm ambushing those names. But there's three names in that paragraph.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And then she says she doesn't see any more
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: messages go out, but she doesn't know if there's others.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: And then later when we get to the how many
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: people are murdered, I think we might get a better
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: number of allth I said either than a mysteriously dying.
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: But my point is they lose more than an annual
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: amount of eyes today that they would add. Oh yeah,
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: this isn't one of those instances when the White Tower
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: stare steps down in the number of eyes to die
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: that they're gonna have, because they lose like well over
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: five women I'm pretty sure in a year per less
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: than a year period because of killing off this conspiracy,
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: and like we were talking earlier, they're graduating as many
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: as three a year, as many as right, So this
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: is this is another one of those instances where the
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: Black Auto just does one little killing spree and now
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: the number of ice to die is appreciably lower.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: Although I think this is one of those years where
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: they get maybe more than usual.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Maybe that's why maybe the pattern was like, no, we
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: can't go Belottle bare minimum. I need lots of ice
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: that died to mature this year, since you're gonna kill
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: so many off a shawl and another is to die
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: whose name does not move forward, I don't believe is
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: raised to keep her Aledra Najaf.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I looked her up. Yeah, and basically she's in
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: New Spring. A lot she eats Moraine and Suan's pies
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: and gets sick and that's the last time we ever
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: hear from her. So the pies kill her. That's my conclusion.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: The two people we know aren't dark friends, so that's cool.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: She has a bit of characterization here, But she presumably
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: dies of natural causes in the Intervening twenty years, because
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: she does not run the show up in either like
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: a murder hit list or in the future books.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Well, then again, Tamara is killed as part of the
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: murder hit list, and one would think they would take
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: out her order as well in that murder Keeper Keeper.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's a good point. Maybe when you take out
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: the omrelin, you just automatically take out the Keeper as well.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: They're a package deal.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: But the Armland diet of natural causes, so maybe not.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: What happens to Eleegra when Tamra dies, No, it's.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: Not stated anywhere.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Hmmm. We'll have to speculate about that when we get
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: there and see if we can find any clue. And
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: the last thing I have in this chapter is are
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: you having trouble sleeping? Some of the brown Aja know
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: things about herbs, and we do see that in the
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: later books, but that should be the yellows, Like, I'm like,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: why are we not going? Like okay? So my two
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: thoughts are either this is a mistake that's a simple explanation,
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: or that the yellows are so dismissive of herbal medicines
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: that only the Browns are actually like oh yeah, no,
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: I mean like a tincture of this, that and the
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: other does help with sleep, like it's not real healing,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: but you know, we're scientists. It's fine.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: The yellows mock Nini for her knowledge of herbs, so
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: only a brown would have that knowledge because it's separate
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: from They're just acquiring knowledge that's not part of healing,
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: and they're not violating, right, the magic healing tincture of
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: like oh yeah, no, we use magic to heal, Like
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: yellows have no interest in herbs because they have magic
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: to heal. So the browns have the general knowledge of
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: herbs that the yellows should.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: And that's that's funny to me. That is an example
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: of a silo inside an ivory tower getting really toxic,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: because yeah, I mean like Varren, you know, knows to
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: go to various women for herbal teas and tinctures throughout
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: the books. Right, she relies on herbal medicine repeatedly, and
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: she uses plants as her cipher. Right, plants are the
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: language that she uses for the cipher of her book. Clearly,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: erbalism is a way bigger deal in the Brown than
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: it is in the Yellow, and that's just a hilarious
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: waste of opportunity.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: And the last thing I sort of have is again
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: the references to the dreams that Marine is having, the
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: disturbing dreams. I want those to be the unshielded dreams
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: of some channel are that she's picking up on.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: But she shields her dreams already, so I don't find
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: what's happening. I think that's just what's insider. As Rand says,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: you can't shield from what's inside your head. So but yeah,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: that's all I got.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: Which takes us to chapter eight, Shreds of Serenity, and
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: it's a suwan fish chapter header.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, the symbol is the fish. We have some variety,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: because if we're going to have Mouran, we're gonna have swan,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: which means we're going to have the snake in the
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: wheel and we're gonna.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Have the fish.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: I guess the Cariane and symbol exists too, but that's
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: not usually used for morien it swan no. So yeah,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: let's see we're starting out with the whole thing about lessons, right,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: Swan and Marine are getting their lessons when they can,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: but the isid I don't want to teach lessons because
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: all be accepted or out collecting names and so they
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: have to tease the novices and it's this whole petty
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: scarcity drama.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: Also, they're spending all day, you know, in an office
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: copying names, which is like, why is that leaving me
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: so tired? I'm like, yeah, office jobs can, like that's
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: repetitive boring, Like you can be exhausted after eight hours
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: of copying down names and I'm trying to read, like
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: bad handwriting and all that kind of stuff.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Doing any task for all day is a strain just
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: on your brain to stay focused on that and not
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: to be switching it up. And then, yeah, the puzzle
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: solving of bad handwriting not a fun puzzle in my opinion.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: I have attempted to do some handwriting distinguishing, like citizen
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: science projects or like reading primary documents for genealogy, and
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: ow it hurts my little brain. So yeah, and then
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: we've cut this line that is foreshadowing for what comes
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: later in our writing section paltry irritation, irritation sometimes how
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: do we have festering into lifelong antagonisms? And she's thinking
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: about the eyes to die in general. But this happens
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: with Alida.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: You know what I loves of what I find really
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: funny is you and I. Well look at the same
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: like three pages of text, and out of all those,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: the only line I have irritated, the only line I
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: have highlighted is the one you read like in those
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: three pages of text. It's amazing how often we come
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: and we like, we don't collaborate ahead of time, but
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: we often come to the same conclusions looking at the
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: same text about the things we want to talk about.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: We have one brain cell.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: I've got about half of one.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: You've got half, which a wonder between us.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: But yeah, that's the whole thing. That's the whole thing
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: that happens is they Alida thinks they rat on her,
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: and so she turns on them for life.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, she has this weird positive obsession with them,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: which then becomes a weird negative obsession. And it's like,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: you could have just not in the first place.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Did she single white female their asses?
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: I guess.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: It's not exactly the same, but you know, the obsession,
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: it's not healthy.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: What it's not so yeah, uh, Moraine is obsessed with hell.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: The Ayes said, I are not leaving yet. She's burning
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: with the urgency of a twenty year old. And they
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: are being chill because they know that they're out looking
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: for an infant, so they can take a few months
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: to organize.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: I wondered about that. I wondered why someone wasn't setting
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: out immediately, or maybe there is someone who set out
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: immediately and she missed it, Like, I just why isn't
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: there more urgency? Are they waiting for all the names
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: to come in? Like what's the deal?
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: I figured, you don't want to have those names floating
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: around by career. If you're gonna have them written down,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: you want them only on the person who's supposed to
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: have the list. I think I think they're waiting on
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: the lists. I really do. They're just learning, they're studying.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: She really wants to get tested, even though she's super
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: not ready right, Like they're just learning their academics now,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Like what they've learned with the power they can they've learned? Right, Like,
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: she really is ready to test, but also she's totally
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: not ready to test, but she wants to test.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: That is interesting to me because it feels like she,
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: you know, Swan can just knock out the hundred weaves
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: pretty easily, and we see later like Ninie even a Lane,
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: like they have no problem knocking out the hundred weaves.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: It's just not something they really need to practice for,
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: and here we see her desperately trying to do it,
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: And is just is it a difference in power level?
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: What's what's going on with Moraine that these hundred weaves
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: seems so difficult for her to master. It's like she
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: doesn't have the serenity of the later Moraine.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: I think I think part of it is that Jordan
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: likes to have people be good at things when they're
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: extra powerful, and Moraine is not extra powerful, so she
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: has to struggle. But I think it also has a
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: lot to do with her her serenity but her inner metal, right, Like,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: she hasn't truly been through anything hard in her life.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: Right, right, She's kind of been the spoiled princess.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: She hasn't been forced to get into that survival headspace.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: She's never you know, like Swan was like pulled into
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: an alley by three drunk men as a teenager, right,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: which may very well have been how she learned to channel,
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: but like more and I don't think has ever been
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: in that kind of a situation. And the test is
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: her first experience of that. I mean, to some extent,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: her accepted test probably put her through something that was
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: also extreme for her. But yeah, I think that it's
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: supposed to just show how much she really hasn't been
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: pushed to like stare her own mortality in the face.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: And yeah, Jordan thinks that she's spoiled, and so he's
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: writing her to be you know, a little bit weak,
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: not weak in personality, but just yeah, having less metal
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: because she's a spoiled princess. But she'll get over it
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: through trauma.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: That's also part of Jordan's thesis is like, with enough trauma,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: you can become a fully.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: Well rounded person, someone who went through war.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that seems to be how the Isidie approach stuff
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: is you need to have the trauma of a war veteran,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: whether or not you've been to war, and then you'll
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: be ready to serve with responsibility in a century's long
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: quest to not be a dick. I don't know if
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: I agree with that, but I think that Jordan's got
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: a pretty coherent world building thing going here.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: The next bit is got Elled coming in sort of
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: spouting off. Ellied again is the one who disappears through
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: the test in the testing for I said.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: I okay, so Ellid is the one that dies, and
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: Ellinn is the one that is just a really really
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: old accepted by the time she takes the test. Yes, okay,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: Elid for death, d for death. Can I can do this?
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: I can remember this?
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: Oh work?
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: But yeah, she's beautiful, she's ambitious, she's perfect. She's really
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: hard to hate because she's not even annoying, like she's
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: hateable because she's so perfect, right like right right? And
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: then yeah, that's part of why her death shakes everyone
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: is because she's just so fucking perfect.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: What does it say? She was always telling you what
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: she intended to do, and she almost always did it too.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: That hardly seemed fair. And it's just like she sets
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: goals and she goes and does them, and it's like
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: those kind of people who you just expect to be
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: successful over and over and over and over again, and
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: to have someone like that disappear, it's like having someone
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: just a friend of mine in college died in a
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: car crash and was that kind of person where just
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: you expected them to go on and be an incredibly
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: successful person in the rest of their life, and to
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: have them disappear like that is shocking in a way
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: that is hard to articulate, like hard to really even it.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: It feels like there's a void in the world where
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: you're like, no, no, that person was supposed to go
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: do something and be something.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: Right when someone seems like charmed, like they like they
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: have tavere and potential to just get what they want
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: and they're on the up and up and everything's going great,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: and then yeah, some freak accident just takes them out
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: something that should have been norm should have been manageable. Yeah.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: I also knew a guy who died in a similar
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: way where it's just like, not him though he was
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: doing all that stuff, Like what do you what do you?
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: What do you mean he got hit in a random
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: accident and died instantly. That doesn't make sense. Yeah, So
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: Ellen is definitely that person where you're like, I was
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: expecting to spend the rest of my life being mad
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: at how successful they are. What do you mean they're dead?
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: That makes no sense. She's exactly that person. Yeah, she
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: is the epitome of the good die young, right, and
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: we have no idea what killed her. It's just the test,
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: it's not and it's not like the accepted test, where
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: like you choose to stay because you're weak willed or whatever.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Like the acid eye test is just survival.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: There is you can still fail if you are not
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: if you survive, but don't do it calmly.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: Enough, which is dumb. But it's not like the temptation
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: to stay is really part of the test. Right, that's
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: very limited to the accepted test from what we see.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: But like you know, I assume she gotten bitten by
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: any of the spiders with poison that would kill her.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: She would die and that would be the end of it, right,
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: Like she's facing traulics. There's dangers in this tell Aroundriodd,
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: because that's what the test is. It's a version of Tellerroundriodd.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: That's just you know, under a little more control.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, Ellen is sharing gossip that you know pretty
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: accurately sums up what's actually happening.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: And I agree. I think there are multiple foretellings from Guitara.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: I think that they knew, like this isn't the first
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: he is born now. I don't think that's the only
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: foretelling they have, Like there's too many indications that they
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: expected something significant to happen on this day.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, but but but but.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: But okay, yeah, throw it out.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Adam Laurna is she she's nice to die? Is she
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: the head of the Green or is she one of
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: the Black Sisters? Because this is finally a name of
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: an Is to Die? Who is an Is to Die?
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: Now and later?
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: I think she's the head Green. Let me double check that. Yeah,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: she's captain General of the Green.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, because for a second I was like, is this
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: a dark friend eyes to Die who's like sharing dark prophecies?
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: But no, no, she's I'm confusing her with someone else.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: I'm doing that a lot with the new Spring names.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: Adam Lorna is the one who gets collared and Bayne
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: shows up and saves her, and she's like, oh my god,
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: I suck because the Green is not prepared for the
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: last battle at all, and here's a gween doing the thing.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: She headed the Green yet probably not I would know.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, maybe she's definitely it feels like she's a green.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: She's the head of the Green at the beginning of
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: the main series, so sometime between now and then, but
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: we don't really know. I don't think she is now
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: currently the head of the Green, but we don't know
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: that for sure.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: And then who is she? Man? That's not Schamerin No,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: it's not Siriam No.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Who is Cheme Chamn is? Shaman? Chaman is in this chapter,
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: Shaman is in no other chapters.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: Cool, that's fun, all right. So, yeah, it's pretty obvious
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: that Guitar had a lot of foretellings and that stuff
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: is coming to a head now, right, it makes sense
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: that all the rumors are congregating close enough to the truth.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just just double checking with Schamayan is just this
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: is the only mention of her as far as I
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: can tell anywhere in the series. She's just an overheard
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: just a name. Yep.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: All right. So the next thing I've got is the
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: practice sessions, the practice for the.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: Test, which is Alida's you know, the normal practice session
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: until Alida walks in and starts, you know, doing an abuse.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's just the normal Morrel and Swan and
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: Moraine doing their thing, and then Alida shows up and
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: makes it really messed up, and for some reason, she
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: leaves Morel alone. She doesn't make Morell do, she doesn't
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: make her leaves, she doesn't make her also do the weaves.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: It's just Swann and Moraine, but Morel is present for
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: all of it.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: My assumption is that Morel's not ready these cheap Alida
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: knows these two are about to be called for testing,
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: and you know, as far as I can tell, she
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: wants them to pass and thinks she is helping. She
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: is legitimately cheating on their behalf here.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I still like, why does she not send
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: Morell away? I guess because she just doesn't care.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: I think she's literally demonstrating to Morel, this is what
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: you need to do to them, watch and learn.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: Oh, fair enough.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: She's literally like, I will show you how it is
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: done properly, right, That's what she says. Basically, I will
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: show you how to abuse your fellow sisters to help
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: them get a better chance of passing.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess so. I guess so she wants to
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: make sure that these abusive tactics continue yes, yeah, so
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: and it yeah, it's it's.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: It's the hazing, right, this is this is absolutelyazing.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: It's worse than what hazing is supposed to be. Like this,
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: this really transcends. And she says, we knew how to
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: practice when I was accepted, And I'm like, did you
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: not get raised a mere three years ago when I
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: was accepted? Like, we knew how to practice it. Now
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: you were abused by a particular person. That's not the
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: same thing as back in my day. It hasn't even
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: been a decade yet.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: Wasn't she don't we know she was abused by a
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: black Autjaw sister.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: We know of a black Audua sister being abusive to
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: other Reds in her care. I don't recall it being
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: a Liaa who talks about it, though, isn't it a
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: Tarna talks to Nineve about how Galina beat her block
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: out of her.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And Galina's black.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: And Galina is in a position enough power within the
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: Red and the Black already at this point, so it
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: would be easy to assume that Gallina also beat Alida
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: quite severely to teacher. We don't know that for a fact,
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: but that seems like a very easy leap to make.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: I had canon that.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I don't think that Alida came up with
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: this out of nowhere. Alida is a remarkably malleable person
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: for all that she's very brittle and stubborn. I don't
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: think that she decided to be an abusive asshole for
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: no reason. I think that was taught to her and
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: from a very abusive black sister who has inordinate power
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: over her and is shaping up to become the head
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: of the Black Auja at some point.
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I could see Alida getting seriously warped in her way.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: And just in terms of numbers, we're talking about two
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: or three per year to maintain the current number of
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: three hundred. Marie and Susan are the only second and
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: third novices after Elida to finish training in three years.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: So in three years they've had three women go from
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: novices to accept it.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: It's bad. You can see where their numbers are plummeting.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: And that's that's why she's so focused on these two
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: because they are the only two who have come up
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: through the ranks since she has been Isidi.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: So really the only reason she wants them to pass
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: is because she's tired of being the most juniorized.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: Today, she's tired of being the FNG, the fucking new guy,
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: like she's the bottom of the tote bole exactly.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: She was like, I just need this mantle to go
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: to someone else.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: Although in fairness, she is probably pretty far up in
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: the power structure of the Tower simply because she is
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: one of the more powerful Acidi. She's in that top
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: tier of power, and because Isidi power depends entirely on
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: your ability in the one power, she would be fairly
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: high up in the rankings right away. Yep, because we're
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: still on the normal power scale. We haven't gone to
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: the secondary power scale Robert Jordan had to invent. We're
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: still on the White Tower power scale where Moraine and
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: Alida and Suwan are at the top of that.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, Moraine survives one attempt and is like, Okay,
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: that sucks, and Swan says, okay, thank you, you've showed
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: us that, and then it just keeps going. It just
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: keeps going, and Moraine makes it to like what the
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: she just like the fifth attempt is when she.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, every time she tries, she makes it less than
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: she She goes fewer and fewer weeds three weeks earlier, like, yeah,
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: it's on the last attempt. Terrible, She's like breaking right away.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And then Alida says, you'll live Swan, it's your turn.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: And Swan does better. She makes it farther. She uh
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: makes it to twelve every single time, and all the
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: way up to the sixth go around, does not cry
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: in front of Alida, which I find the stare down
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: energy between Alida and Swan, like that's starting here, right,
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: We're all in Moraine's head for this, and Moraine's the
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: one doing the analysis about the long term enmity and
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: what and so on and so forth. But seeing the
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: contest of wills between Swan and Elida through Moraine's eyes,
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: knowing what's going to come for them in twenty two
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: years or whatever, well.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: And especially the way Swan is just good at this right.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: She doesn't need the practice. She doesn't need she mostly
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: completes it every single time Moraine throws weaves at her.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: And I think even when she gets out, like at
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: the end of the chapter or at the end of
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: this set of chapters, when she is like easiest fallen
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: off a boat, I really do think she means that like,
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: I do think the weaves were more like easier for
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: her than from Loraine.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but she's still only guess to twelve tonight, so
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: I would argue she does still need some degree of practice.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Moraine credits Elia figure it out, so I have a
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: hard time imagining that Swan didn't get nothing out of this.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: So that's the question. Is this beneficial or is this
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: just abuse?
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: Would they have passed without it? I gotta say I
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: think that Moraine would have failed. I think Swan would
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: have passed. Again. I think that facing a level of
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: mortal terror is part of what they need in you
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: to pass the test, and I don't know that Maurain
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: necessarily would have survived having her first brush with that
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: during the test. Having it happened before might have been
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: kind of vital. I do think Swan would have passed
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: either way, though I think Swan might d not been
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: as easy as falling out of a boat, but I
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: think she would have passed. I don't know about Moraine.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know about Moraine, given how hard she struggles
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: with us and how much she in her own mind
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: credits Alida with helping her, I don't know.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: And then the other question is obviously the last test
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: is cruel because can we talk about that? Are any
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: of the other ones and necessarily cool? Is Alia making
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: the test harder on Moraine in general?
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah? She says that the constant assault on her
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: modesty left no doubt Alida is also being very like
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: psychologically abusive to her with the nudity thing, because I
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: thought it was weird that the newdy thing was so emphasized.
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: But I kind of get it if Alatta is specifically
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: trying to go after Moraine's kyrie in in weak points, Like, yeah,
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: that does kind of make sense with what sort of
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: a bit she is in.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: The same way that like the ieal kind of make
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: poke fun at Rand and like oh whoh you're naked?
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: Oh no, because it makes him blush, right like, but
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: not in a cruel way the way alight is doing.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: It right right, Yeah, exactly.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: I think Alighta's cruelty was threaded throughout the entire test,
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: not just the last one.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: I find it very interesting that our main characters are
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: from the most prudish countries in the world. Right, who
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: are the three most brutish countries. You've got the Borderlanders,
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: which is Land, the Two Rivers, which have you know,
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: country yokel inappropriateness.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: And that's where the Demon'sfield five come from. And then Kyrine,
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: where Morain is from.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: That's one of the reason I like men so much.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: She's one of the only non like sexually oppressed like
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: characters in the series. He's like, yeah, I get fucked
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: and I enjoy it. Deal with it.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: I mean she still also was still a virgin when
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: she slept with Rand.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: Fuck no, she fuck you know she wasn't She somes
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: but miners with an E, not with an O.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she claims that she was a virgin for Rand,
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: but I'm fine with head cannoning that she was lying.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: That's that's that's like, yeah, totally. I don't know what
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: I'm doing, really, because that's some impressive skills for a virgin.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: I know, I know.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: But Jordan needed to self insert his sense of sexual morality.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: So clearly the Vision Girl has to have saved herself
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: for Jesus, even though she's literally older than him.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: You know, Elaine and Avienda, I can buy it, right.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: Avienda is just she's a fucking nerd, right. She is
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: into jock. She's a jog nerd who like hasn't had
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: a chance to like never social life and like only
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: lives with their sisters. Who are you know, it's like
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: being on Rugby, right, Like I can understand that one
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: of them wouldn't necessarily date outside the group and a
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: Lanza princess and a Lanza princess, so like, you know,
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: realistically they're probably all fucked.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: But like it was a finger bang and a carriage,
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: thank you very much, exactly.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, yes underneath Michael Stte but men
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: yeah nah yeah, nah's bullshit.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And like even if a banda says like, yeah,
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: I've shared blankets with men to stay warm, and I'm like,
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: and that's not a.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: Euphemism, right, okay, okay, you really And then and then
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: when Avienda and a Lane get together, it makes a
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: lot of sense later yeah, oh yeah, I can see
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: why the two of them may not have slept with
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: a lot of men before.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, but yeah.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: That's that's why. Yeah, I think Elaine and Avienda together
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: and then Rand and men together is sort of how
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: I head canon that. I don't think, like, how do
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: you with Rand's like threesome? Well, you know, it's two relationships,
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: they just kind of overlap a little bit.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they still share an apartment because have you seen
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: rent these days?
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: Oh? Fuck yeah?
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: But yeah, and even then, min still comes from and Or.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: She comes from a less repressed part of and Or,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: but it's still and Or. Like the truly least repressed
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: of all of them is Berylaine, and she gets shamed
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: by all of them for that. So just because she's Italian,
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: right like mm hmmm, yeah, all right, So Morel gets
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: just as traumatized as Swan and Moraine from having to
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: watch two of her friends just get beaten to shit,
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: and it's very upsetting.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: And I think Morel's the one who eventually goes to
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: the mistress of the novices.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: And I wouldn't be surprised if Shiriyam and Ellen and
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: all went together, because they were like, she need to
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: do this together, so that way the blame is diffused, etc.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: But yes, I completely agree that their friend's friend or
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: friends good Samaritans to them out. I don't think that
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: this was anything more complicated than no, you're not supposed
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: to get beaten bloody every night, And like, if an
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: adult tells you not to tell anyone, you need to
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: immediately tell someone, right, Like, that's the rule is if
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: an adult does something to you behind closed doors and
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: says don't tell anyone, the first thing you do is
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: you tell someone. I think that Yeah, their friends are
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: just like the Mistress of Navices needs to know about this.
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: This is also like transitory abuse, right, Like she was abused,
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: so she's abusing them because she thinks it's the right
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: thing to do, like it's passing down the then, and
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: it all comes from the black Auja, right like this
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: this abuse I one hundred percent believe is due to
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: the black.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: Odja, which then makes it ironic that the black Auja
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: Mistress of Novices is the one putting a stop to it.
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: But that's part of her ruse. That's part of how
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: she is able to do what she does, is she
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: does shut down this abuse because like, yeah, we understand
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: it's transitory abuse, but also we're shutting this down because
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: we're the Mistress of Novices and we can say that.
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: But we're also not going to punish a light it
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: in any significant way for doing it, which means that
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: there's no real dessentive for it to keep happening.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: But it won't happen to you from her, but the
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: system will continue, exactly. There's no disincentive to other eyes
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: to die. There's no conversation with all of the accepted
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: about how this isn't okay. There's no institutional change, there's
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: no anti bias training, there's no truth and reconciliation program.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: And they have a whole conversation here about how like, yeah,
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: why would you complain? You can we know the consequences
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: of people who complain, So you know, it's that like,
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: if kids are punished for telling the truth, they're going
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: to lie. And these women are children, right, that's the
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: whole point of calling them children, right, they are treated
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: as though they are children. And if you abuse children
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: and then tell them to lie about it, or if
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: you tell them to lie to other like, it's just
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: like it's it's obviously setting up a situation that's rife
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: for abuse because of the power dynamic and lack of
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: communication and being punished for communicating things. And yeah, yeah,
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: you know. The lesson in The Boy who Cried Wolf
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: is that you know, you should probably keep listening to
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: the Boy who Cried Wolf because eventually there may be
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: a wolf, right, Like you shouldn't you shouldn't stop listening.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah, the thing where she doesn't get meaningfully punished.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: They don't quite say why she doesn't get punished, but
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: it almost feels like, well, she's got a very promising career.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: And then, okay, here's a line. Has she decided all
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: her to punish or coerce you? I'd have seen her
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: strapped to the triangle for birching. Yet what she did
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: broke no law. That's exactly what she did. She punished
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: them and corroded them. I'm gonna say paroted, you know
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: what I mean, That's exactly what she did. Chad, what
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: do you mean, had she used what? What?
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: She wasn't punishing them for anything except not being as
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: good at the practice as she said. She wasn't coercing
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: them to do anything except go faster. It's weird, weird
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: tightrope to walk.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: It's like it's not punishment, it's training. Therefore, Yeah, exactly exactly.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: It's a very weird, weird and I mean we see
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: it later with Agwayin when she's getting beaten all the
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: live long day as correction, right, like they have this tightrope.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: It's a well worn tightrope that they have in the tower.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: But it's very weird and I feel like they should
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: maybe work on their abuse policies if that's a that's
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: a loophole the size of a barn, Like, come on, no.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: And I love how her penance would have been for
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: helping you cheat in the test, but we decided it
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: wasn't cheating, so no penance.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And also if she had been found to make
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: you be cheating, then you would have been disqualified from
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: taking the test is also kind of implied, And I'm like,
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: so was a light of trying to make them fail
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: by virtue of disqualifying them? Like, what is even happening
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: with this series of half statements. I'm so confused.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: And she's like, what is the test like being beat
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: the whole time? It's like no, but at the same time,
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: you take a lot of damage and you get a
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: lot of injuries. It's not beating, but it is being hurt.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: It's being beaten in a wider variety of ways than
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: just being hit over and over again. And then she says,
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: I trust you will accept her gift in the spirit
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: it was given, And Swan says, believe me, as said.
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: Die I will.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: I'm just like, ooh, that's a two way lifelong enmity
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: that the cut created. Like Swan doesn't think of it
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: in her deposition sequence because this book hadn't been written
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: yet obviously when that happened. But you can sort of
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: like retcon that she was thinking about this while she
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: was processing in that cell.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: And I think in that moment that it was clear
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: to me that they had history. It just wasn't clear
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: what that history was. And this is that history.
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: This fills it in in a way that does plug
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: that spot very perfectly clearly.
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: Elida thought they had gone to the Mistress of novices
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: themselves and she had paid the price in humiliation. According
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: to Mirian.
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: Humiliation, she was confronted by one woman in a closed
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: story meeting and was made to squirm a bit. That's
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: such a pathetic thing to have a lifelong entity over.
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: What was Alida's eyes, a full blown animosity. They had
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: acquired an enemy for a life. I tell you once again,
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: once I gain the shawl, if she ever tries to
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: harm me again, I will make her pay, Suan says,
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: and she does does she? I don't think Suwan does anything.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: She trains Agwayne to serve Elia her own ass on
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: a platter, So yes, it's very roundabout, but ultimately she
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: sends an Aguain in to deal with Elida.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: Does Aguain actually do any thing to bring down Alida
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: that Alida doesn't do one hundred percent herself? Like, because
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: here's the thing, here's the thing. At no point does
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: anybody turn on Alida till she's already being captured by
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: the shawn Chan.
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: Well, there is that really sick burn that she gives
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: that like almost topples Elaia, like it almost goes down,
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: and then the seann Chen show up before we get
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: to see how that was going to play out, and
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: it was a really sick burn, it is, But.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: That is one of the things I really kind of
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: hate about her scene in the Towers. It's all this
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: build up to her undercutting Alida and then the sean
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: Chen show up and just take her off her hands anyway,
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: and it's like all she was what she was doing
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: that whole time, was building herself up, But at no
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: point did she actually ever do anything to take Alida
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: down or harm her in any way that Alida didn't
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: do herself or al Viarn didn't do.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: She did a lot. It's just that alvi Area and
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: Alida had already done most of it. But no, it
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: gwayn puts in the work, and she does it in
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: large park. Swan trained her to people put in the work.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: So Swan built a bomb and sent it to Alida's
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: signed with love, you know. But yeah, she does, unfortunately
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: get quite thoroughly deposed before finding any way of striking back,
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: which does make this feel a little bit like a
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: hollow promise. Well not hollow promise, but just sad foreshadowing.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: Because yeah, so then the weather one week to the day,
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: ten days later, so we get a very explicit statement
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: that a week is ten days here, and if the
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: boy had been born within those ten days, what is
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: the ten what's the beginning? Is the beginning? The foretelling?
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: Is that the moment when they're saying that he couldn't
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: have been born before that moment.
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: No, it's the snow. It's the snow when the snow fell.
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: So the snow falls, and I believe three days later
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: is when she has the foretelling, and then five days
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: after that it melts again or something like that. I
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: believe that it's all snow bracketed.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: I disagree.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, well it starts before for the foretelling, though
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: we know that the window the wis whisker bar extends
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: into the past from the foretelling. Why because Tomra doesn't
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: date it to that morning. She dates it to a
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: couple days before, doesn't she.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: I'm reading this paragraph one week to the day after
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: Guitar made her foretelling, one week to the day. What's
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: one week? Ten days? The weather warm suddenly, right, so
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: the snow melts ten days after the foretelling, And then
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: she says that gives us a ten day window. But
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: I think snow is on the ground before the foretelling.
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I thought. I thought that snow was
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: on the ground before the foretelling. And what Tomra says
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: is that the window she's looking for. Oh but then
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: Swan and Moraine narrow it down.
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: Right, So if snow is on the ground for longer
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: than ten days they don't have then the snow can't
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: be the window. At least it's the end of the window.
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: But it doesn't limit the beginning of the window. So
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: they have to be limiting the beginning of the window
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: by the moment the foretelling end. Yeah, and they think
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: he was born at that moment or later, yes, which
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: I don't necessarily I mean, I agree he was born
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: at that moment, but I don't see why it would
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: be later or earlier. I mean, it's the foretelling.
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: Tamra was just casting a wide net. I think she
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: just wants to cast a really wide net to catch up.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: She also didn't want to give away her narrow focus.
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: Right right, exactly, whereas Swana moranget to be much more targeted.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: I just I don't necessarily agree that Swana Moraine can
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: limit their search to that ten day window the way
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: they do, right, Is there anything to say that brand
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: couldn't have been born before those ten days?
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: I think they just end up concluding that it was
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: at the moment of that foretelling.
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: Agreed, And I think it was, But the logic is
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: not necessarily consistent. Yeah, in terms of when the dragon
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: was reborn.
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: But nine days after the thaw, once they're totally done
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: collecting names, once they're genuinely over that task, it's time
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: for the testing, right, So.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: That's nineteen days after this story has begun.
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And Morange gets summoned first, and we see as
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: soon as she's done with her test, Miran goes rushing
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: off to collect swan. Right, they test back to back
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: because you can't have them at the same time, Like
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: you can't run the tests for two people at the
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: same time.
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: They have to go it's one tyrang real right.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: Exactly, but they can do them literally with like a
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: ten minute break in between. So yeah, chapter nine it begins,
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: and our symbol is the six pointed star that gets,
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: you know, shown for them to go to throughout the test.
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: Which I think is just used in chapters where the
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: test happens. Agreed, Now, it's finely interesting. The way it's
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: shaded in kind of like a navigation star, but it's
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: like the six point it's a very it's not the
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: five pointed star that you generally think of as being
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: shaded in, or the four pointed star which is compastructions,
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: or the eight pointed star which is as directions and
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: the half way in between.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, compass roses have many different ways they can be stylized.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: I learned when I was doing map design in the
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: end of my college degree. There is a truly boggling
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: number of compass rose designs out there.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: Interesting that Codswain has a six pointed star as part
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: of reterangrial and guess and it provides armor protection.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: Maybe the six pointed star has some kind of like
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: conventional meaning in the age of legends to mean like protection, strength,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: home stability, something like that, so it's kind of a
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: common icon to use to symbolize that.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: Lore says six pointed star is known as the Seal
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: of Solomon in Islam and acts as a protective charm.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, interesting, I mean, remember what must be remembered and
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: all of that is definitely protective charm energy and codswayin. Obviously,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: it's literally a charm that gives protection.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: I think the remember what must be remembered is is
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: definitely protective because if they remember too much, they can
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: do things they're not supposed to do and they end
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: up like dying way more frequently very much. So I
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: also wonder if like having their memories wiped between each
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: tests help you pass, because if you have the burden
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: of all, you know, ninety nine tests on you beforehand,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: I feel like that actually makes things harder because it's
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: just accumulative pain, whereas waking up fresh every time makes
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: it like, Okay, I just have to survive this one.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: Right, And they get weary as they go through, and
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: they know what number they're on, and they know that
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: they've suffered. But yeah, the clarity of all that trauma
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: doesn't come crashing in until they exit the dream space.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: So yeah.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: The chapter opens with Morain being convinced she's going to fail,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: and then she realizes something that is very parallel to Ninive. Again,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: the parallels between Morain and Ninive are so strong. She
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: realizes that if she failed and lived, she would still
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: be able to channel, at least so long as she
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: remains circumspect. She can still go out on her mission.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: She'll still have the book, she'll still have herself. Assuming
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: that failing and live both happen, she can still go
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: on the mission. And that's exactly what Ninieve thinks twenty
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: years later, is if you fail me, I can still
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: go help Rand win the last battle. You can't take
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: that away from me. I want the Shawl, but I
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: can still save the world without it.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: And that's what makes them good ice to die, because
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: the mission comes above the tower.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the fate of the world comes above the pride
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: of the individual.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: M Yeah, and then I love a little reference to
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: the kin right. The sisters sent said those who sent
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: away all but gave up touching Sidar and Raine's like
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: fuck that I wouldn't do that, and I bet nobody
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: else would too, you know, And it's like, yeah, that's
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: why the kin exists because basically they can't they can't
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: give up, and the Tower has sent them away, but
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: they're not going to stop channeling, and so they become
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: part of the gin.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: The is said, I want to believe that their institution
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: is so precious and all powerful that women would rather
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: give up the power than pretend to be knockoff eyes
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: to die. They would rather believe that than acknowledge that
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: there's a secret society of women who channel on the downlow,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: because how could you ever give up the power, you idiots?
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: Right, especially considering what happens to gentle women or still women. Right,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: they stop living rather than give up the power for
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: the most.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: Oh, but the loss of the prestige of the Tower,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: I guess I'll just give it up and forget forever
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: because I didn't get my diploma. Like that's so air.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: Again, right, But I can see where the it parallels
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: a lot of physician practices, right, The idea that if
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: you don't get your degree, you really shouldn't be a
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: practicing physician, and you should like not be giving people
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: medical advice, even though many people still become chiropractors.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I would argue that the power is very
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: different than being a doctor. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, but
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: again the White Tower.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: I do think to think of the can as like
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: the acupuncture of the doctor, but they actually do real
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: things right right, right, right right right.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it's it's and I think it's cool too
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: that Morain has this fear of failure and then this
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: realization that failure doesn't mean she'll fail to save the world.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: She's just going to fail to graduate, which I mean
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: discounting the notion of dying obviously. And then as she
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: actually walks into the test, she's thinking to herself, she
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: will not fail. Like that moment of realizing that she
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: will still be Morain, domadred woman who can channel with
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: a book full of names, gives her the confidence to
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: be willing to actually believe she can pass. Right, Sometimes
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: letting go is the best way to hang on, strangely.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: Knowing you don't need it right. Same thing with job interviews.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: Don't got a job interview desperate, You'll never get the
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: job sure, right, And that's that I feel like is
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: sort of the what she does here, where she's like, oh,
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: I don't actually need this to be successful. I'm going
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: to do my best, but it takes off the pressure.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: It takes off the need to succeed that may lead
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: you into acting desperately and making mistakes.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: I would argue it's kind of the same with relationships too, right,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: if you're so desperate to be in a relationship that
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: you'll overlook anything that's not gonna lead you into good places.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: But if you're like, no, I am me and I
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: can live on my own if you cross too many
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: of my boundaries and have too many red flags, and
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: I know that about myself. S okay. So they get
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: down to the very lowest level of the tower, they
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: look at the oval ring. Elidah's there, much to Moraine's consternation,
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: and then we have our Agwayine parallel moment where she
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: goes to you know, undress for the ceremony, then realizes
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: she has incriminating paperwork in her pouch and it's very
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: awkward and oh no, what will I do now? In
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: Agwayne's case, it's the files of dark friends and there
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: Turunngrial that they stole, as well as the dream ring
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: from Coreyan and the deal. In Moraine's case, it's just
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: the names, the book of names. But either way, they
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: had this extremely parallel moment of going, I hope no
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: one looks through this paperwork while I'm in the magic
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: to Ungryl and then she just has to leave it
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: there and go for it and hope. And you were
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: saying you think this was looked through.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: I think it's one of I think it's the point
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: at which she gets targeted by the Black I think
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: Marine has an idea that she might be on the hunt.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: Well no, I guess that doesn't really work, does it,
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: Because if they knew they were on the hunt, they would.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: They would have just died.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: They would have just died. You're right. I was thinking
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: that's how they get involved with Marine later as she
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: like targets them because she thinks they may be involved.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: But yeah, no, she targets them because they're sniffing around
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: her mark and that's what clues her into them maybe
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: being involved.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: Right, So yeah, okay, fair enough. I wanted this to
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: be something they all look through, because again, I think
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: Varren looked.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: Through Varen's not in a Gwin's test, and she already
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: was the one who handed the she already gave it anyway, right.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: Right, right, right. But I thought we came to the
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: conclusion that somebody looked through her information, that maybe Elida
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: looked through that stuff while she was I don't think so.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: Because Elaida was Aladda was also at that test, but
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: she was again involved in the operation of the rings,
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: and that in that case it was the accepted test,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: not the acidye test.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: But right, right, right, yeah, And I guess that's the question,
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: is like how how involved Obviously they're channeling to make
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: it happen, but you know, are there long periods of
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: time where they're like kind of waiting. Is it like
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: they take turns and one person's involved or the rest
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: is sitting around waiting for the that person to finish
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: up their test, like, because it does seem like one
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: person sort of steers each test.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we never get a sense for how long it
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: takes on the outside hours, it seems like because the
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: eyes that are usually pretty tired at the end, which
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: doesn't apply long sustained channeling.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: And we have a somewhat idea from how long it
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: takes su on to come back from her test, right sure, yeah, yeah,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: so I kind of imagine it's pretty much real time
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: that there's not a big time difference between the inside
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: and the outside despite being till a running odd because
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: it is being monitored and watched and controlled from the outside. So,
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: you know, if she has to channel for ten minutes
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: to beat a wave of trollis that takes about ten minutes,
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: you know, and assuming an average of ten to fifteen
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: minutes at most per level, at one hundred levels, you know,
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: that's a thousand minutes. Divide that by sixty, you know's
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: what's one hundred divided by six I can do? Man?
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: Uh yeah, so around fifteen ah man, yeah, I mean
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: that's a lot of hours, right, you can you can
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: anywhere from If it's fifteen minutes per per level, that's
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: like twenty five hours, that's too long.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: So say five minutes, right, so five hundred minutes, so
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: that's closer to ten.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: Hours, ten hours. Yeah, still, you know, yeah, between eight
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: and ten. Yeah, I'm assuming some of them are pretty quick,
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: like a minute or so like that that cuts down.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: But still, I mean you're talking like eight to ten
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: hours of just continuous work on the part of these channelers,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: and then they do it twice in a row. Yeah,
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: it's a lot.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: You kinda wonder how many Eyes to Die they're swapping out.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: Did Alida really do a marathon session to be able
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: to torture both of them? Probably? Yes, I wonder if
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: I had the other Eyes to Die were like, nah,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: I only want to do one test per week. It's exhausting.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: I have shit to do.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: I do imagine that there's a certain amount of like, yeah,
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: testing is fucking exhausting. Probably one of the major duties
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: of the mistress of the offices would be too providing
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: power for the testing and be there for a lot
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: of the testing, and also to.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: Help manage the Eyes to Die for being appropriate batteries
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: for that.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, surprise, there's not more circles going on, But.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: You'd think that circles would be involved in something this intensive.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: All right, So yeah, she uh puts on a mask
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: of calm, because that's all that matters when you're in
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: Eyes to Die, And we really see the dichotomy between
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: a face carved of calmness and stillness and Moraine just
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: absolutely like running around with her hair on fire. On
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: the inside, which it makes you wonder about how many
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: times she stares coolly at Rand while internally she's just
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: you know, screaming into a pillow mm hmm.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: And we're just at the point where this is still
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: a struggle for her. This is I think he's trying
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: to say, this is not the Moraine that you see
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: later in the series. This is someone who's still young
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: and struggling and trying to find her feet underneath her.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: But it's also like the first emergence of the look
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: of the future of Rain. Yes, she's getting that mask
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: in place with shaking hands, but.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 3: It is the mask that we see later, absolutely, absolutely
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 3: well and in a lot of ways, what we see
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 3: later is Moraine becoming the mask, whereas he now she's
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 3: just putting it on.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely we recognize it, but yeah, it does not
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: a fix to her face quite as solidly as it
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: will in twenty years.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So a lot of stuff about the ceremony and
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: the gate that remember what must be remembered the way
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: the gate like spins the old it's an oval ring.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: With the sound of stone grading. This is the version
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: where without the slightest sound of stone grading. Right, Remember
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: we had this whole discussion with wait, but there's stone
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: grinding in Brandon's version, and it's not here. It's not here.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: There's no stone grinding sound because it's magic. It's also floating,
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: but in Sanderson's version with Ninive, it is not floating,
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: it is grinding. And yeah, we go launching off into
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: the first vision. And I noticed in this first vision,
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know if there's any other time when we
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: get to learn what how s Domadred's colors are red, green,
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: and white is how Stama dreads colors. She is Christmas colored,
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: Christmas how stamad Red is the Christmas house. She's a
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: holly tree in the snow.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: So Layman Santo, Wow, exactly.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: I'm going aside, they're just walking Christmas trees. So yeah,
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: we go through this whole putting on her clothes and
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: then having them get taken away again. And the conflict
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: of the first vision is three men being gross and
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: she just deals with it.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the naked thing. They keep throwing the naked
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: thing at her. They want her to break because she's
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: a shame of being naked.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: So and like every time we have one of these
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: White Tower tests, whether it's for accepted or for ees
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: to die. It starts with a new diity test. Every
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: single one of them starts with the well what do
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: you do for your clues? Vanage, and then with Moraine.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: It continues pretty steadily again because Elida is specifically, they're
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: pushing that button. The second vision, she has very uncomfortable clothes, right,
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: the opposite of her fancy noble woman's clothes. And this
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: is the one where she gets wrapped in bushes and
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: a bunch of spiders come at here.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: Burns spiders, yeah, death head spiders, which are basically black widows, right. Yeah,
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: they have skulls instead of our glasses, but I kind
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: of think of them as the Yeah, they're.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: Black widows for sure, for sure. And then the third
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: vision she has this weird like walking down a corridor thing,
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: which I imagine that's probably takes all of like thirty
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: seconds in the real world because it's a dreamy space
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: and it's just a corridor walk, so whatever. And in
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: this third vision she gets to see her first trollic.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, first trolloc Ever, she discovers what they look like.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: She had seen drawings before, but had never seen one
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: in the flesh. And we know in Ninive's vision when
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: she sees trollok she's like, ooh, those are being made
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: by someone who's never actually seen a trollic, Like the
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: visions are wrong. So I do wonder how accurate Moraine's
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: first vision of a trolloc is given how rare of
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: a sight they are even two eyes to die. But
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: either way, she identifies it as a trolloc correctly, and
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: you know, does a very fun way of dealing with
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: this one where a whole bunch of trollocks are pouring
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: at her and she does something that again so many
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: barrels with Ninive.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: It's very many.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she uses the weave itself as well as her
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: body to multitask basically, right, she dances in order to
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: keep track of the weave and also to be blasting
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: fire and lightning at the trollics as she is working
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: on the weave. It's a very very cool visual of
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: her doing this courtly dance while just all the death,
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: all the exploding chunks of caud heized trollcs flying by,
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: and she's just humming and skipping, and it's great.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: Similar in the first vision when she uses the first
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: weave as a wall to keep the leery guys away
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: from her. She's actually using the first weave as the
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: thing that protects her.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Ninive does a lot of similar stuff in
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: her tests, where you just make it bigger, you make
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: it fierier, you make it more concussive. And yeah, so again,
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: the two of them are very similar in a lot
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: of ways.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: I don't remember Nineve splitting her weaves off. I just
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: remember her using the hundred weaves as her weapons, right
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: because I remember she's like, I can't channel, I can't
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: use anything else.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah, Ninive uses the weaves themselves, whereas, Yeah,
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: Morain is doing an incredibly dexterous thing where she's doing
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: three different things at once with the.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: Power exactly, which feels different than what Niniva was doing.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: Even though I feel like Nini very much could have
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: splitter weaves, I think she didn't.
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: Well, I think about it. Ninive is way way stronger
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: than Morain. Moraine has to be clever and flexible and
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: dexterous with her waves, whereas Ninive can just keep turning
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: the knob to the right until it fixes the problem. Yes,
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: very much, very much, I think she actually goes to twelve.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: I also just loves her. She's like, in some ways
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: the dancing helped, and I'm like, yeah, of course a
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: somatic component to your magic is going to make it
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: more effective.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: Duh, which is why she throws with the fireballs, right,
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: like someone found that level of like movement helps. But
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: then the problem is you get trapped.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And then she sees the next doorway that
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: leads into the blight. Only madmen entered the blight, and
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: she bails in the direction of madmen, and thus we
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: can transcend from her third test to her ninety ninth
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: or to her one hundredth test. As we transition to
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: chapter ten, it finishes and the symbol is mice. Swan's mice,
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: one might say, because you know, putting mice in the bed.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, but the mice are often used for like
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: Dark Friends as well, right, because it's it's first used
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: when Shamayel kills all the mice in the inn.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: Eh, yeah, that is different. I just was like, clearly,
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: this is the prank mice obviously.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: Right, and I assume that's why they used it, Like
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: it's not supposed to be for the Dark Friends, but is.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: Something particularly dark friendly. In this chapter, No, but yeah,
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: we skip from the third of her tests to the
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: last of her tests because we don't need to see
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: ninety nine tests. We know what her basic fears are.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: We know what the world before the Supergirls show up
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: is like we can imagine. We know that Elight is
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: doing a lot of attacks on her nudity. We know
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: that she's being hit with a lot of things that
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: would make her a spoil princess city girl, squeamish and afraid.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: She's being faced with all kinds of existential fears and
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: threats to her life and being forced to leave people
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: behind like we can imagine, but we don't see it.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: We don't see anything until we hit her hundredth We
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: do get a bit of a montage. She found it
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: in riverstones, on mountain sides, in a city, in a
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: forest and a swamp, and farms and plains and a marsh,
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: in hovels and palaces. Right, She's everywhere. She's being tied up,
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: she's being hunted, she's being bitten, she's being lynched, she's
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: being assaulted in all kinds of different ways. And then
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: we get to the very last one. And this one
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: is going to be emotional instead of physical, just fi.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: The only other time this chapter icon is used, as
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: far as I can tell, is in the Gathering Storm,
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: and it's a Souan POV.
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: Really, this didn't even get used for figs and mice.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: No, this is the one where she's falling in love
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: with Brenn and admitting it to herself.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: Oh, she thinks about a mouse prank in that one too,
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: she would forgo the mice.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: This time she tells Brinn the truth about the foretelling
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: and the dragonry born and tomorrow she's telling this story
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: to Brin and in that chapter, and so that's when
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: this is brought up.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: The only two times they use this.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: Logo the icon, Wow, unless it's in Memory of Light,
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: because that's the only one that Encyclopedia WA hasn't indexed.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you'd think it would be used more.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: I would, all right, So yeah, let's prepare for emotional damage.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: Emotional damage, emotional Guess how many chapters the Wheel and
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: the snake icon are used for one billion? There's not
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: quite that many chapters in the Wheel time, but close
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: four hundred, closer two seventy five, getting very.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: Close really to fifty. Well, the three hundred, No.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: Eighty one eighty one. There's fifty chapters per book, right,
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: so there's somewhere around somewhere around seven hundred chapters.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: That four hundred was a little If you told me
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: how many chapters there were, if you told me, out
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: of seven hundred, how are many, I probably would have
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: guessed like thirty percent. So that's what of.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: Seven hundred, that's like two hundred and twenty two hundred
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: and thirty.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I still would have gone too high, is what
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: I'm saying being honest here, I still would have gone
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: too high.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: It's closer to ten percent, okay, but still ten percent
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: of all the chapter icons. One out of ten is
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: the snake in the wheel, all right.
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: So this last vision is pretty quick and simple. Marine's
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: father comes out and says, you need to come with me.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: Your mother is dying, and she says, nope, not going
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: to my mother's deathbed. I'd rather be eyes to die.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: And that is really intense emotional damage. But again, the
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: mask is getting on better and better, and she waltzes
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: on out of her test and is praised as having
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: survived a pretty harsh test. Not the hardest anyone's ever seen,
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: but pretty harsh, but.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: Elia definitely kicked it up a notch.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think Moraine got like the top ten
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: percent of rough sides of her tests. Anaya is here,
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: you know, very kind, motherly blue who's been around since forever,
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: and she's like, you're not in as bad of a
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: state as some I've seen, but bad enough, like you
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: know what ninety was going to go through, but this
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: is rough And just.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 2: FYI, the six Pointed Star Icon chapter nine and Towers
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: of Midnight chapter twenty.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: That's it because those are the two is did I
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: test chapters? Mm hmm, all right, well cool, Oh yeah,
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: Varren is holding all of Morain's stuff, so there is
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: a chance that Varren knows about the book.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: There we go. That's I knew somebody read it. I knew.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: I was like, in my head, somebody read this goddamn book.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: Varren did. And I was saying, Varren read Agwain's but
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: I was getting mixed up.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: Varren read book, Varren already knew what Agwain had, so
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: it was irrelevant.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: Right right, exactly, But no, she read this book, and
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: that's why Varren knows, right, Karen knows, That's why she shows.
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: That's why she shows up in I in the Great
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: Hunt to be there, because Varen knows exactly what the
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: quest is that Moraine has been on for twenty years.
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: And so when she shows up with this boy, she's
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: like dragon reborn.
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: Done right, because she first of all, right, she has
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: been a dark friend for twenty years at this point,
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: right when she dies, she's been a nicetif for she's
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: been a black u or seventy years that she was
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: black Auja in the present day.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so okay, fifty years.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: So she has been in black Gauja for fifty years.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: She's been a black Gauja for more than twice as
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: long as Moraine has been alive. She has been a
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: black Adja doing her subterfuge thing. She's already got her
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: notebook cipher with the plants and all that. So when
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: she knows through a variety of means that the dragon
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: has been reborn and that Tamra is looking for it,
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: and that Moraine and Swan look awfully purposeful, and that
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: there's this list of names, she doesn't need to tell.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: She's just like Tamra. She doesn't tell anyone, she doesn't
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: make a report. She probably barely even notes it in
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: her ceiphered book. I mean, she probably does know it
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: in her book, but like she knows.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: She knows.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: She sees that little book and she goes those two
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: fucking looking for the Dragon Reborn. And I'm going to
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: stay out of their way because I want them to succeed.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: And if I don't say anything, then it doesn't count.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: And the dark one never has to know that I
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: knew that. But I know that I knew that. And
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: probably this is also part of how she confirms that
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: Moran and Swann are not dark friends, because that's part
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: of the work she's doing right now, right is building
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: her roster of who is a dark friend. And obviously
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: these two can't be dark friends yet because they are
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: still accepted. But yeah, Varen knows, veron one, one hundred
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: percent knows. There's zero percent chance that Varen picked up
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: that pile of clothing and belt and did not somehow
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: miraculously figure out what that book was. Varen knows.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 2: And again they are in there for hours, right, whether
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: it's between you know, two to four to ten hours
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: something in that range to get this test done, plenty
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: of time to take be like I'm going to take
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: a break and flip through the book and see what's
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 2: inside of it and put it back and show no evidence.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, presumably occasionally they have to pee, right, right, or
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: does the trick? I guess ignoring cold and heat also
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: extend to ignoring your bladder only if.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: You want to burst bladder, which is a serious health issue.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, exactly. You can't stop your kidneys from producing
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: waste in.
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: The same way that they don't stop themselves from being
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: burned by the sun, even if they don't feel the heat.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So presumably occasionally an isidie needs to go take
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: a piss break and yeah, or get healed. Presumably it's
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: frowned upon to ruffle through and accepted clothing and possessions,
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: but can't be that hard. So yeah, she gets healed and.
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: Is really tired, because that's what the healing of the
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: time does, makes you hungry and tired.
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: She mentions that the last test was very cruel, and
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: Anaya says, we don't process our trauma in the towersh.
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: We don't talk about it. Yeah, but she uses that
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: statement to get you on to sort of glance at
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: the door which Alida left through to confirm that you
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: know basically she you know, she's using body language to
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: confirm information.
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and Maren hurries out to go get Swan.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: Alida heads out, I guess to watch Swan get brought
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: down like a goose for the slaughter. Yeah, and Aya
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: and Varrin take her back up and she just kind
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: of waits for hours. Oh yeah. Shiriam and Morrell have
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: this like instant distance with Moren because she passed and
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: she is now no longer and accepted, and so this
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: like golf opens up and what is the line of
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: friendship was at an end until they also gained the Shawl, and.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: Then they I don't think they're as close friends because
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: they come back and there is that distance that remains
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: even after they are all back to the Shawl. Right,
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: That's why she and Suan remain closer than Shiriam and myrel. Well.
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: Also, Swan and Moraine have this secret that they're acting
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: on once they get the Shawl, and they're never willing
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: to share it with anyone else, and like that transition
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: for their friends happens at basically the same time, so
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: it really amplifies the effect.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: Why do you think Alida was so hard on these two?
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It feels arbitrary that she decided she
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: was going to be this kind of a hard ass
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: to two women who were clearly never even going to
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: pick heraja. I've never quite understood what the true inciting
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: incident for her obsession with them was, because it predates
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: the start of the book, right, they already have a
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: history when the book opens, and it's never made clear
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: to me why. I think Alida thinks she's doing good
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: for herself and the Tower, but it feels like that
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: rationale is already lost in the mists of time by
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: the time that these books start.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: This book starts, we see her do a a I
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: was going to say, a Matt in the Tower scene
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: where he eats all the food on the plate even
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: though it's way too much.
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they were very good about getting a warm
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: tray of food to her, because you know, someone went
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: ahead to say, hey, yeah, we've got a you know,
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: new wives to die, who's gonna need some healing food
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: and get Moran's Like, I'm a tiny little thing and
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: I eat fastidiously. I could never eat a whole loaf
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: of bread. She scarfs it absolutely, inhales.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: Every last crumb and then takes a break and reads
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 2: a little bit of a romanticy.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: Which is adorable. She's like, this book isn't suitable for novices,
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: but it's fine for me. Me and Swan love to
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: read romance novels together in bed.
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: There are so many references in this book to the
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: White Tower girls reading smut, like just constantly.
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: The girlies be reading smut.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: They really do be.
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: It's not a new thing. Actually, the girlies have always
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: been reading.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: Smut, like the fact romanticy is having its moment right
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: now in the pop culture, but it has always been around.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just the things girls like could get capitalized
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: on later than the things boys like. And yeah, she
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: is unwilling to go to bed or leave because she
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: wants to be there, you know, if Swan fails and
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: comes back to get kicked out or whatever.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: It's like when your coworker is being fired. You're not
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: sure your coworkers getting fired, and you want to wait
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: at their desk because you know they're just going to
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: be able to collect their belongings and go and if
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: you're not there, you'll never see them, right.
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. And instead Swan shows up and says like
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: it was hard.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, she's she really is like easiest falling
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: out of a boat, which is like pike right, right right.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: She probably got cut up, she definitely needed healing, right,
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: But I don't think she had any trouble with any
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: of the hundred weaves.
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: No, No, she probably mostly had trouble with literally not
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: dying from a crocodile or something. That was probably the
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: worst test was like literally when a crocodile almost ate
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: her leg.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: I was going to go with troloc but a crocodile
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: headed trollic.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, crocodilian named Florin.
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: Also, there's a furious blush from Swan, And we know
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: in Moraine's reflections that one of her tests was a
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: very handsome man who began kissing her very aggressively. So
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: one assumes that Swan also had a sweep off your
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: feet make out session kind of tests she had to
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: get through.
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: And one assumes it wasn't just making out.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: Very kissed very thoroughly. Does sound like quite the euphemism.
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: I feel like there was at least some heavy petting also,
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: And then yeah, they get to sort of realize like
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: we are going to get raised together. We are going like,
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: we can't talk about our traumas and all that, but
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: everything else we're gonna get to keep doing together. Obviously
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: we know they literally get raised at the same time,
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: like holding hands.
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: Uh huh.
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: It's one of the sweetest, most amazing things ever. And yeah,
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: Moreen says, so do you want to like eat and
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: sleep because you know that's what normal women do on
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: this night of all nights, And Swan says, fuck no,
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: let's do a prank. I have mice. Let's put them
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: in a lighta's bed for being such a cunt.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: It's like knowing your birthdays, your eighteenth birthdays tomorrow, and
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: it is like were miners for one more night, we
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: can get away with one more crime before they can
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: catch us and charge us as adults.
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: Or I said, eye, Yeah, it's really one of the
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: last silly things Swan ever does as far as I
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: can tell.
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: It's cute and bittersweet, and they get caught and punished
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: for it.
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: Yep, some of the only eyes tode to ever get
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: raised with their bottoms still sore from a paddling administered
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: to accepted, Uh, I mean pseudo accepted, but still close enough.
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: But I do like that Moraine says, we're going to
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: eat first. Yeah, like you need to eat, right, you
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: need that energy you had healing.
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's uh, you know, she's slightly more domestic
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: and caring and aware of physical needs of the two
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: of them. And yeah, they're rationale is that Alida deserves
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: it for everything that they did to them, And Moraine thinks,
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: you know, without Alida, she might have failed, and so
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: she almost doesn't know if Valida deserves a prank, but
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: also the whole with her father was cruel, so like,
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: fuck it, let's put mice in her bed and h Yeah,
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: it's a sweet last moment of childhood before they launch
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: into their full adulthood as sisters.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: And I think a really good laying out of what
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 2: a typical isid I testing and raising should look like. Right, Like,
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 2: I think it's really important that that made it in
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: the text. It was one of the besides ninees, which
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 2: is anything but normal. Right. This gives us a baseline
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: for what a normal for as many I said I
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: as we have, you'd think we'd have a few more
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 2: of these testings going on.
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would have liked to see this once or
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: twice from a farther off to the side character to
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: see how the big characters figure in the visions of
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: a more bit part player or something.
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: But it's amazing how often the tests for isid I
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: and Wise Woman both give you like visions and information
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: that you might not otherwise have. Right, she gets to
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: see a trollic for the first time, that sort of thing.
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: SA yeah, with that, I have nothing else to say
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: other than giving us a bit of a readout.
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: Sure you read us out practically.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: Sisters, isn't the same thing as being Morain. Think it's
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: our last chance. It really won't be proper once we
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: have the shawl. Swan's grin faded to grimness, and Elida
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: hasn't been out of the tower that I know. Mice
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: are a small repayment for those beatings. Moraine, we owe her,
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: We owe her. Morain drew breath. Without Elida, she might
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: never have practiced trying to weave faster, and without that
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: she might well have failed. But she suspected her father
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: had not been Alida's only special addition to her test.
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: Too often her weaknesses had been laid bare by someone
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: who knew them particularly well. The woman had tried to
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: make her fail only after you have eaten, she said.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: Pulled that off in less than two hours.
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: Nice, nice, good stuff, good stuff. Really love the Jordan
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 2: as Jordan of it all.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was good. That was good. I do love
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: a good Isidi test, whether it's for magical woman test,
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: whether it's you know, to get halfway to the rinks,
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: to get all the way into the ranks. I love
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: the visions where our characters get put into a metaphysical
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: ringer and we get cool prophecies and details and stuff
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: out of it. It's just always so good.
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: They're always some one of my favorite chapters, the way
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: he pulls them off. They're so good. But on that note,
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: I think we were not going to try and cover
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: two more chapters today. I think six was a mistake.
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 2: It was, it was, but we are ten chapters in
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 2: and doing some more next week. I don't know how many,
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 2: but we'll figure it out.
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: We'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. See y'all
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: next week.
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: See next week.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: Bye. Thank you for listening to the Wheel of Time
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: Spoilers podcast. Please rate and review us on your podcast app,
• 1:33:39
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• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: Watts Spoilers is a production of Fox and Raven Media.
• 1:33:47
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• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: website at foxndravenmedia dot com.