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How To Correct Performance While Keeping People Engaged · The Leader Mentality

• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Leader Mentality Show.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: This is Rob Clemens, and I am back with Mr.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Nick DSTFano.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me back, Rob.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Coastal Carolina Extraordinaire Teacher of Things.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: What is your exact title over there, Nick?
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Technically, my title is a lecturer.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Lecturer.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's what I'm doing all day.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's just lecturing these students.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you need to learn about business.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm that's my technical title, but I'm I'm really just teaching students about all things business.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: I do think, I do, I do think lecturer is a funny term.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like then colleges need to rethink that one.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's like when you get a lecture in life, it's always bad.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: When have you ever had a lecture that wasn't bad, you know?
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: I I think we need to run this up to the dean over at Coastal Carolina and see if we can get your title changed to America.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: No, we need to change it to the whole structure, right?
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Lecturer, senior lecture, senior lecture.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, you're really good at teaching people a lesson.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: The best at the lecture.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: The funny thing is when I first asked you, I said, What is your uh I said, what is your title?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: And you said, I'm elect, and I thought you were gonna say you're electric something.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna be like, man, he's electric, he's a legend.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: This is crazy.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, well, well, hey, everybody, welcome back to the show.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: We're glad to have you guys.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, I love it when Nick is on the show because we can talk about some things that are uh, you know, real-world topics, and that's the agenda with the show, right?
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we want to talk about things that people are going through every day.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, as I've always said, I got to set the stage.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: If this is your first time listening to the show, or if you've listened a hundred times to the show, you know it's common that I say that leaders should be throughout, right?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: And and let's not let's make sure, Nick, that we're careful today when we're talking.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: We're not gonna conflate being a leader and being a manager.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Certainly we want our manager to be a great leader, but you've seen managers that sometimes are not great at leadership, and we've seen great leaders who are not managers.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: So let's get that out of the way.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: I love that that's what you said.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's literally the second thing that we talked about in each of my courses this semester at Coastal is having students to recognize exactly that, that you can be one without the other.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to be the same, but you can also be both.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, 100%.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, the thing about it too is when we're we're saying the whole leadership thing, the beautiful thing about leadership is if I've got 10 people in a group, I could I should only have one manager there.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason I'm saying one manager, because if you have two people trying to tell you directionally where you're supposed to go, that's kind of a tough one.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, I could have 10 leaders in that 10.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: And what does a leader look like and what's going on?
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is kind of part of where the topic of the show is going to go today.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because with great leadership, sometimes comes uh what we would call directional guidance.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: It would c you you can't always just say everything's great because everything's not always great.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's not.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Business business managers, do you hear me?
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: People, I think, do you hear me?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Especially business managers.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Business gets more complex by the day, and it requires leaders who are managers, also managers who are leaders.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: 100% managers who are leaders and leaders who are managers.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I agree.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason that I'm I'm talking like this is that if everybody if you did have a domain of 10 people who are doing perfect leadership, well, you probably wouldn't have a whole lot of guidance to give.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because honestly, great leadership means, you know, you're you're you're attentive, you're here for the team, you're working on yourself, you're building goals, you're um, you know, this is a a key thing.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Look, one of the great reasons that America started exceeding as much as it did years ago is because we had a great productivity as a nation.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Productivity per person, per uh, you know, group.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you could show a great productivity, and with that came great strides with this nation.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the same thing work as with companies, right?
• 4:13
  unknown: Absolutely.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, so here's what we're gonna talk about.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: And as you guys can see, I'm adorned.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone who's watching on a visual version of this, I am wearing my Carolina Bayes gear today.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh look, I don't want to confuse anybody, but I do own a company as well.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: And the magic of this is, you know, Nick walked in today and I said, Look, man, you know, I I like most people out there.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'd love to sit here and say it's all peaches and cream all the time.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, you have those times where you have to discipline people who are on the wrong path.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't really mean discipline in the sense of like a lecturer, but I mean uh You see what the difference might have.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no, no, but but I don't mean it in the sense of like, yes, we want to come in and pummel these people.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, quite the opposite.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: I want to give you guidance without killing your morale.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what the show is about today.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking all about how do we guide people without crushing morale, without guiding somebody so much that they go, this isn't for me, and I guess I'm just going to quit and go somewhere else.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you know, I I appreciate that that's what we're gonna talk about today because I know it's so relevant to people.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: We joke that, you know, I I'm a lecturer at Coastal, but I also, you know, I don't have the swag on, but I do my own leadership consulting and really employee engagement conversations with individuals.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of that at times is is coaching leaders on how to actually have these conversations.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: What does it look like?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: What are the systems we should have in place?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: How do you, like you're saying, guide them while also giving them some structure and giving them some boundaries and rules and expectations and what happens when those aren't met?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's some of my favorite work when I get to sit down, you know, whether it's you know, you and I having conversations like this on the podcast for others to you know learn from, or if it's you know, with a business that says, hey, we've got some leaders that need some help.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: Can we sit down and figure out how do we support them?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, well, so and and here's the reason.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: This is why we're even talking about this today.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's so difficult because um, you know, look, I've been managing people for years.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when I uh back in my early 20s, I started managing teams, and you know, that there's never a perfect answer.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's like people always say there's no manual for being a parent.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I I don't know that there's a perfect manual for being a manager.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um so what I've found is uh my style personally is I I try to rule with compassion, I try to rule with understanding, and I try to rule with logic.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: And when I say logic, I'm I'm really referring to the fact that, you know, I feel like when we get into emotional decisions, very rarely do we make great decisions.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm mad, I make a decision.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's not really a good thing.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm happy, I make a decision, that's not really a good thing.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: You need to kind of step back from it and really analyze, but but here's the thing too.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: We have these people who are around us and we don't really know where their mindset is.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you might say that thing with all due respect to that person and and their growth that pushes them right off the top, uh right off the cliff.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: So when you find yourself in that position, you've done tons of training on this over the years, what's a uh a way to deliver that message without making people feel like um like they've been personally victimized or not died?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's such a good question, Rob.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things I would say is back up to before we even have this question, and I would ask anyone listening, right?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Something you you and I, I know we've talked about it, but it's important that before we even get to having this conversation, where I'm worried about is this going to push the person over the ledge, that I may not know everything they're going through or how they're feeling, but I should have a pretty good understanding of who my employee is, what matters to them.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you don't need to know, you know, the name, date, and birthday of every one of their kids, and you know, all but if you know some of those things and you've taken time to show this person before we ever have to have this conversation that I'm invested in you, that conversation is going to not be easy, but it might actually be harder for you, and you may even delay it because you've spent the time and you know this person.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so many managers have told me I oftentimes don't have the conversation when it should happen because I'm afraid I'm gonna upset this person or right because of that compassion you're talking about, that we think, uh, I don't know what to say and I'm gonna say it the wrong way.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like that I think one, that's that pause that you have before you have the conversation.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think if we just reframe that that shows that you care.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you didn't care, you would just say you didn't meet the expectation.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, story.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care if I push you off the cliff, like we'll find somebody else.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: But if we back up and we realize we care, and then we reframe that when we come into it, it's a lot easier to actually have the conversation.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I would say.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: But you asked me, you you didn't ask me what do we do going back to it.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: I so I didn't answer your question, forgive me wrong.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, no, that's okay.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Let me no, no, no, it's okay.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Let me let me kind of uh put a bow on that a little bit.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I do agree with you that um uh we have to be careful in a management position.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I am actually using the term manager because we're making an assumption that somebody who has to look out for the direction of the team and make a decision, who can has the power to make that decision, makes a good decision.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're saying, first of all, you've got to go into it with a rational head yourself.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: Don't let something really bother you and then go make a a decision be when you're in a moment of emotion, right?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's your own emotional intelligence, though, right?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, correct.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Show on that you listen to it.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then, but then we get to the next level, which is that then you have to make sure that the person you're talking to is in a good emotional state.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, now again, we're sometimes I I've told you before off the show, I I worry about saying things in a box because we can sit here and say, well, wait till they're not yeah, wait until they're not in an emotional state.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, Becky's always in an emotional state, right?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're using an example here.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: So there there comes a moment of trying to be understanding that you balance out with, you know, really knowing when you have to draw the line.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: But nonetheless, so what you're saying is talk to the person, make sure you kind of understand where they're at.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: It could be a temporary thing based on something that's happened traumatic in their life, right?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, absolutely.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: And again, know your people well, like get to know the people before you uh have to have these conversations.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: You should know who are the if you manage people, you should know who they are, like what's important to them, because then it's easier to have the conversation because I'm connected with you, right?
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, there's a book by John Maxwell, it's called Everyone Communicates, Few Connect.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's like how many people are we?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: We're just talking to people, but we're not actually connecting with them in a way where they realize, okay, this person actually cares about my development, wants me to be successful.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Wanting you to be successful doesn't mean you can do whatever the heck you want, and you can just, you know, run amok and do you know things contrary to our values as an organization.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: You still have, you know, ways to operate, and we have a system that we follow, but I care about you, and because I care about you, we're gonna have this conversation.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, it true, tr very, very true.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: And and unfortunately, sometimes you you get a certain kind of a person who, when they know you're gonna be compassionate all the time, that they they start sleeping on you a little bit.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I mean metaphorically sleeping in the sense that what they're doing is they'll go, well, I'm never really gonna get disciplined, and he's gonna come in and talk about feelings, and then I'll leave the room and do what I want to do.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that and I think that makes sense, but I think it's an uh balancing act for a manager to how am I going to challenge you and support you?
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a mixture of both, then we kind of have to push and pull a little bit at times to say, I'm gonna push you forward, but also sometimes I'm gonna pull you up.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't want to come, well then that's also on you.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: You have to have your your you know motivation to be to want to be better as well.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: If they're not motivated to want to be better, it doesn't matter how much I try.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: If they're unwilling to put their effort into it, at that point, is it going to make a difference?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Boy, right?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Are they willing or are they able?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: What's what's the are they willing or able?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: God man, can they be both?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry to keep interrupting you, but see, you're hitting on some topics that we really have to uncover here.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: So so we talk about number one, are you motivated?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: And and then we talk, are you willing and able?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's a big deal.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think first of all, we have to really understand, is somebody even capable of doing it?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: I like to use the analogy of, you know, if if I go to somebody who's five feet tall and I say, go dunk this basketball, all of the motivation in the world probably won't get them there.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now, there could be somebody out there who's got insanely good hops.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: But but let's just say in general, you take a typical five-foot tall person, say, hey, go dunk on that 10-foot goal up there.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, chances are they may be very willing, but they may not be able, and we have to understand that we have to put the right people in the right places to succeed.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so all right, so there's that.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: All right, yeah, you're willing to also have to give the right people the right tools, too, because if I gave a five-foot person a trampoline in front of the net, then they could dunk if they had the tools to do it.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Indeed.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Indeed.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: But short of that, but sometimes we don't even give the people the tools.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, they're not able tools or training.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do they do we know if they're able if we didn't give them when I use a trampoline as an example, obviously, in your segment basketball, but yeah, did I train them or did I just say you're just not the right person for the job?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and this is where sometimes you and I we will have a slight divergence, but but it's not a divergence of disagreement.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: But what but when we're playing this analogy out, I I think that you know, one thing that I've come to learn over the years is some people, mentally or physically, they just it is not their spot.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: And we can sit here and we can try to force it and force it and force it, and we all want to believe that we're such smart trainers and all this.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: But the truth is, is like, you know, Beethoven, when he started playing years when he was a small child, he was playing, man.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, it was and so he had a natural, you know, you know, inclination towards being able to do this, and you have other people on another extreme, and we have to accept that's reality.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: There are people who you're gonna invest all this time and the better question is what should they be doing with their time more so than what am I trying to force them into doing?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I believe that's a management decision.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's that's when it gets, I think, when you say we we oftentimes talk like things are in a box, and then it gets someone listening to this is probably thinking to themselves, how like, but when do I stop?
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah at what point do I say I tried too many things?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the delicate balancing act of management and then also of leadership.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's a little bit of both, but I can't invest all my time and energy into growing you and giving you every tool and every training and all the support.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: I I want you to have a growth mindset.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: I need you to have a growth mindset, and I have that mindset towards you, but if I'm spending all of my time and we have to look at things like you said earlier, sometimes logically as well, I can't sacrifice the business to save one person, and that's okay.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And if people don't understand that, then they're not right for our organization because I love people.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: People are my favorite part about work.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: People are also the most difficult piece about management and leadership because they're complex, they're confusing, there's emotions.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: See, this is this is my and this is part of my core point.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're so busy trying to prove a point sometimes, like, yeah, I'm gonna put the trampoline in front of you, and maybe that will get you up onto the thing, and whatever, you know, that we're not realizing that we're putting so much effort and energy into one specific thing.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: And as noble as that sounds, I got, you know, 10 let's go back to the 10 people scenario.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: I got nine other people out here who are counting on that we're gonna be, you know, keeping the direction going.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we talk about motivating and managing and and making decisions and disciplining when you have to.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a valid question to have, you know?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: But it but also I ever when you say that it reminds me of I'm gonna forget who said the quote, but there's this this old mantra or idea that you know the best way to lose a good employee is to tolerate a bad employee.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there you go.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: You could also say it's not just tolerate a bad employee, but if I continually drop all my effort and energy into you to grow, and the other nine people sit there and watch it happen.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, things don't happen in silos and in vacuums.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: If you have ten people and everyone knows I'm spending my time and energy on you, it's it's not like I can make it a secret.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: So what are those other nine folks sitting around thinking?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: And how are how's my choice to prioritize you and your growth impacting everybody else?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it makes a massive difference on culture, yeah, how we operate every day.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like this is the old thing.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, we I was talking to one of the people the other day about what they do at their work, and we talked about the employee of the month thing.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I say, you know, where do I stand on the employee of the month thing?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really love it.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I'll tell you why.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you have just picture uh I just think we as companies, we're trying to find ways to show people that we value them and reward them, and and so it may be spending lots of time with somebody.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: But the other thing we do is we're like, employee of the month.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then like there's 99 more people there who are like, oh, it wasn't me.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess I guess my I'm not valuable, you know.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then and then you get into the token, well, everybody's gonna win it.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, then there's no value on that either.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: So what are we doing here, right?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: The uh the thing is that I I think that as we're talking about this stuff about motivation, and we're gonna pick up a part two of this show, but but as we're kind of getting towards the back end of this show, part one of motivating, disciplining, guiding employees for their better, I think that we definitely need to make sure that we're really hammering um that there's these stages of where am I giving guidance?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Where am I like deciding that the guidance isn't actually going there and we're kind of mixing in motivation and will.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I have one before we get too far off.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking about this week.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Now, now sometimes I just like to talk about stuff that comes up on my meetings this week.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so have you seen the thing online?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's so popular that it's annoying me now.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: And what it is, it it they got two images, and it's about leadership.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and you've seen it.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: I know everybody who's listened to this has seen it because it pops up and it's so cliche now.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: But what it does is it shows it shows like something like manager and it or or something like that, and it and it and it's a guy standing in the back like this, and there's something in the crowd, and then it's like leader, and there's and he's up in the front, he's and um I said, you know, I know what that's trying to say, and I think that that image started off with a beautiful point at one point.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I said, but but what are we doing?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: We're demonizing the person who should, in essence, be sitting back and scoping and saying what's actually going on, because if I'm in the front of the the group, yes, I get it, but well, uh what we're really doing is saying you have it, it almost makes it feel like you have to be one or the other.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like we started out by saying here, and I think it's it's an an extremely important point to remember for anyone listening, is that you can be a manager and still act like a leader.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you and that's what when we're talking about the right guidance and the right level of like challenge and discipline, we we should put that on managers.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: That should be something that managers do, but not if we look at managers the way that like the the meme makes it seem where I have to discipline and be you know, and that that is uh almost the old school version of what managers were.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but that's not what I don't think that's what employees want today, and I don't think it's a successful way to run a business is to say I'm gonna put you know one manager here and I expect them to, you know, drive things this way.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I want them to do that, but I also want them to connect with the people and to keep us moving forward and do all this stuff we're talking about.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: If if I can put like a a couple of points to that, here's my issue with that.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that again, like I said, it's become very cliche these days to like like really kind of demonize the person who's at the top making all the decisions.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think that you have to juxtaposition.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're a college guy, you know what I mean.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Juxtaposition.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, the the person keywords.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, but it's the person who said, Hey, I'm the manager now.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now I call the shots and I'm gonna go and take off longer for lunch.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's not being a leader, but what I'm saying is is that it doesn't also mean though that you you have to be in the front of the pack running forward, not in the sense of, and I used uh I was talking to this person and I said, Do you remember the story of General Custer?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember Custer?
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: And you remember how he got, you know, him and his whole platoon got knocked out, right?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because he was so busy in the front charging in, his style was to bull rush in.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's what that picture kind of shows me sometime.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking, like, it's like I going, let's go, and it's like, yeah, you got everybody fired up, ran right off a cliff.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: If he had stepped back a little and said, Okay, I've got somebody on my flank over here, I've got this going on over here.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: You can sometimes from the back see what's going on as long as you're getting feedback from the front.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: Boom.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: There it is.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think that requires, and I'm I'm I'm with you on it.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: I agree a hundred percent.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: We we should step back.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I think we all need to recognize where we are within that, let's say our group of 10, right?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Or where we are as the man, if you're the manager or the the leader or the employer, wherever you're at, like it is essential, and I would be interested to see um how you think this looks, and maybe we'll continue this conversation in part two.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: I I think it's essential that people recognize like their own and it's it's important, but their own level of awareness.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: So their own self-awareness to recognize that maybe I came in and I am that leader, like General Custer, and I'm our manager and I'm just going for it.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: But is that because you don't have the skills to know how to step back?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Do you where are you?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so if we're not willing to be self-aware, we're gonna come in and we're gonna just do what we've seen other people do, or what the meme tells us to do.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: See, here's the problem, Nick.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: No, you're you're diving right in.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is the problem that I'm trying to get at.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: And what I'm saying is, is we've simplified, and and I'm I'm no fan of simplifying things.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: We've simplified it down to the fact that, oh, what's a leader look like?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: He's the guy in the front, running up in the front while the other clowns are in the back.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: And and what I think that the actual starting of that little sketch was meant to mean is get from behind the desk, quit just barking orders at everybody, and and really get to say, hey, I'm gonna show you how it's done.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's what it's meant.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: But we've turned it into that guy sitting at his desk, probably working 80 hours a week trying to figure out how to get everybody in the place.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: He's a bad guy.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm out here and I'm producing up in the front.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think that uh where you said, and this is what I love about it, is we do indeed have to understand the difference between a manager and a leader.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: The manager does indeed have to step back and look and see what's going on.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna catch things that you can't see from the front line.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: But by the same token, if you're a leader manager, good things happen.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm talking, communicating, making sure people are in the right positions, and so that's where we're, you know, and this is all apropos to what we're talking about today, yeah?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: All right, man.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'll tell you what, I think that's actually a pretty good place for us to end part one.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Let's take a grow uh a break.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna come back next week.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna do part two.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna talk a little bit more about how to motivate those employees, and and here's what I'd like to hear.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Let's let's create some topics for the next time around.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, one of the first things we're gonna talk about is how many warnings is enough warnings, right?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so to me, it's endless.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's endless.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 23:39
  unknown: Yep.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, life would not as it's we're gonna talk about right, right, right.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna talk about the golden rule.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna talk about when it you want to be treated like you treat others, or I might have just inverted that.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: But we're gonna talk a little bit about that.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna talk about so much more and how to employ good people, motivate people, discipline when needed, but at the end of the day, try to get us all further ahead tomorrow than we are today.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Love that.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: All right, beautiful.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, hey, listen, we appreciate everybody listening for part one of our show about motivating and getting the most out of people.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna pick this up next week.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: So until then, we'll see you next time on the Leader Mentality show with Rob Clemens and Nick Distefano.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: All right, see you next time.