Latest / Pod Save America / “Karma is my Courthouse.”

Transcript

“Karma is my Courthouse.” · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Poetry of America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: On today's show, Donald Trump is taking his first arrest
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: in stride. Liberals take control of the Wisconsin Supreme Court
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: for the first time in 15 years. Tennessee Republicans try
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: to expel Democratic legislators for exercising their First Amendment rights.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: And Chicago's mayor-elect Brandon Johnson tells us how he pulled
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: off an upset in a tough race. Then, Crooked's own
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Hallie Kiefer hits us with the most cringeworthy takes from
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: the Trump arraignment. But first, speaking of Hallie, she hosts
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: an outstanding podcast that is the newest member of the
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Crooked family. It's called Ruined. and it's a show that
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: caters to both horror movie buffs and scaredy cats. Hallie
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: and her squeamish friend and co-host Allison Leiby unpack a
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: different horror movie every week, from bone-chilling slashers to spine-tingling
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: supernatural flicks. And for those of you like Allison, or
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: me who are too scared to watch, fear not, Hallie
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: will ruin the movie for you. Tune in to Ruined
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: every Tuesday for your weekly dose of horror available on
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: all major podcast platforms. Do you like horror movies?
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: I somewhere between you and a horror buff.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: That's a big, well, I hate them. I'm terrified because
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: I'm terrified, but so that, that's a big, that's a big, uh,
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: this is.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: A longer conversation. Every once in a while, I stumble
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: on a horror movie I'll watch because most of American
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: cinema feels dead. Um, and I like it, but I,
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: I don't seek it out.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Well, I like this podcast because it's, Hallie is hilarious
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: and you don't actually have to watch so you can listen.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: And it's just a lot of funny takes about horror movies,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: which I think is fantastic.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, isn't people not watching and listening kind of
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: what we're going for just generally?
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: It's our whole vibe. It's our whole vibe. Don't tell Elijah.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: All right, let's get to the news. On Tuesday night,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: twice impeached criminal defendant Donald Trump capped off what he's
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: calling the best day in history with a deranged speech
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: at Mar-a-Lago, the scene of another one of his potential crimes.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: The Republican presidential frontrunner rambled through his usual lies about
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: the election he lost, the multiple investigations he's under, and
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: his many personal grievances. Here are some highlights.
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: And just recently, the FBI and DOJ in collusion with
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: Twitter and Facebook in order not to say anything bad
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: about the Hunter Biden laptop from hell, which exposes the
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: Biden family as criminals and which, according to the pollsters,
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: would have made a 17-point difference in the election result.
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: Yet Joe Biden took massive amounts, more documents, even removed
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: many boxes to Chinatown. The criminal is the district attorney
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: because he illegally leaked massive amounts of grand jury information
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: for which he should be prosecuted or at a minimum
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: he should resign. And Alvin Bragg's wife confirmed a report
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: that claimed her husband has Trump nailed on felonies. She
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: has since. locked down her Twitter account. I have a
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: Trump-hating judge with a Trump-hating wife and family whose daughter
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: worked for Kamala Harris and now receives money from the
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: Biden-Harris campaign.
• 3:29
  Speaker 5: And a lot of it.
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: She's doing everything in her power to indict me over
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: an absolutely perfect phone call, even more perfect than the
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: one I made with the president of Ukraine. Remember, I
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: kept saying, that's a perfect call. This lunatic special prosecutor
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: named Jack Smith. I wonder what it was prior to
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: a change.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: It is so funny to go through all of your crimes, past, present, future,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: your impeachments. You just make sure you hit it all.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: He's really focused on the issues in this campaign this
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: time around, right? He's just laser-like focus on the issues
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: that matter to people.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: With every passing day, his voice gets fainter and fainter
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: the deeper he goes down the rabbit hole. You would
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: really need a PhD in far-right MAGA media to understand
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: anything that he is talking about.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he is the most online person in the country.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: So we got some expert legal analysis on the unsealed
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: indictment from our friends at Strict Scrutiny on Tuesday night.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: So you and I get to talk about the politics,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: which is all we're good at.
• 4:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: It's at least where I feel most comfortable.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: And I don't even know if I use the word good.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: So now that we know more about the charges, the case,
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: and the political world's reaction, do you think anything has changed?
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: I think it'd be somewhat naive to think that the
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: additional information we got from the charging documents is going
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: to dramatically change the polls, which sort of seems to
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: suggest in this snapshot moment that the anti-Trump majority in
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: the country doesn't really like Trump. They didn't like him before.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: They still don't like him. Trump fans that dominate the
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: Republican primary electorate view this as yet another reason to–
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: they're certainly not dissuaded from their support of Trump, and
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: it probably is even helping him in the primary– in
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: the short term. What I think we can't really know
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: is how this will play out over the long term
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: because there is a little bit of like a water
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: on rock phenomenon if we spend the next– six months,
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: 18 months, just talking constantly about Trump's legal challenges, his
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: various indictments, his court dates, the court drawings of him,
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: him sitting at the defendant table, what that will do
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: both to the small sliver of the general electorate that
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: is persuadable and that group of Republicans that we know
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: actually makes, at least prior to this, made a majority
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: of people who, like Trump, were open to another candidate?
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: What will that mean to them? You can't really predict that.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: I think it's very dynamic. It could have a real effect.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: It'll take a little bit of time.
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: I think.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: Look, I think that that small sliver of persuadable voters
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: is looking for a president who has sat as a
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: criminal defendant in court. They like that. That's what they're
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: looking for. That guy's going to fight for me. So
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: there are some legal experts, including left-leaning legal experts, who
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: I think have gone little wobbly on the merits of
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: the case.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, you have some legal analysis despite that intro there?
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm just saying I've noticed it, right? And I
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: do think that that has influenced the media coverage and
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: also sort of emboldened Trump and his goons even more
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: than they already would have been emboldened. On the merits,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: I very much agree with Leah and Kate's analysis on
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: the merits of the case, as well as the analysis
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: of all the legal experts who have actually brought these
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: kinds of cases in New York State before. But I'd
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: also say that a lot of the experts who don't
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: think Bragg should have brought this case admit that they're
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: mostly worried about the political ramifications of indicting a former
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: president for this particular crime. And that I strongly disagree with.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: And it's that we've now been doing this since the
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Mueller days, since before that, where people whose expertise is
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: in legal matters think a lot about the politics. And
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: I just don't think, I agree with you, I just
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: don't think we know what the political ramifications are. But
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: let's say Trump gets the case thrown out or he's
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: found not guilty. Yes, he and the entire MAGA establishment
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: are going to scream about exoneration and And this was
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: just another Democrat witch hunt against me and blah, blah, blah.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: And the press is going to say, oh, Trump is emboldened, blah, blah, blah.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: But like, and just exactly what happened when the Mueller
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: report came out and Bill Barr decided to summarize it
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: before it actually came out. And everyone said the clouds
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: were lifted. Remember that? Oh, Donald Trump is strengthened. Now
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: he's going to win reelection. And then what happened? He lost.
• 8:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: He lost. So I just want to like, everyone should
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: be prepared for the fact that like Donald Trump, he
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: could be found not guilty. They could throw the case
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: out of court. We might get more indictments. We might
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: not get more indictments. They might lead to guilty verdicts.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: They might not. But like, it's just like you said, he,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: the guy lost the 2020 election. A second Trump term
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: is absolutely terrifying, but Donald Trump is not political Teflon.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: He's just not.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, because he's only ever won one election and
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: his party's lost every single election since then.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: Right. It's just like, there's this, this fear of Donald
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Trump's political strength that just would not be like, people
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: would not be having this for any other person or
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: any other politician.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're, there's still a national PTSD, particularly among
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: political prognosticators about 2016, because we were so wrong about that,
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: that you can, the natural, you, you're like almost insulating
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: yourself from it. We don't know what's going to happen.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: Any person who wins the Republican nomination, whether it's Ron DeSantis,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump, a cardboard cutout of Spiro Agnew, has a
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: near coin flip chance of winning the presidential election in
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: this political environment with this electoral college. That is just
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: a fact.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: But there is just no way. It is possible that
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: getting indicted doesn't hurt him a ton. But it's not
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: going to help him. That is just not how it works.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: And if he wins this Republican nomination going away, it's
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: not because he got indicted. It's because he was going
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: to win anyway. That's why. He was just simply too
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: strong for the collection of yahoos who decided to run
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: against him. And it's not that complicated. It's just he
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: will win in spite of, not because of, the indictment.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: And also, and we've said this a million times before,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: whether or not he's found guilty of this crime or
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: other crimes, it is very likely that a jury won't
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: end his political career. It will be up to the voters.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: It is the voters, not the jury, that we have
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: to focus on here. So we should just let the
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: legal process play out. And if he gets off, no
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: one freak out. Just saying it now.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: I'm sure no one will freak out. Because you said it.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: I was thinking about it this morning, just imagining the
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: case getting thrown in there. We said that they shouldn't
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: have brought this case. Alvin Bragg ruined everything and the
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: whole election. Now Donald Trump's going to win.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: I cannot. If Twitter still exists then, which is an
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: open question, the amount of people of legal pundit types
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: that will just tweet, leaving this right here, it'll be
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: their tweet from April.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Why they thought Alvin Bragg shouldn't have brought the case.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: It's like, fuck off.
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: Do you think Trump won a lot of persuadable voters
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: by using his primetime speech to remind people of all
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: the things he's being investigated for and then attack a prosecutor,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: a judge, and their families? Do you think that's a
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: good campaign message for 2024?
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: This is one of those times where if we had
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: an always-on Democratic progressive advertising effort, you would take parts
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: of that speech and you would share with the voters.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: Like just like every 60 days between now and the election,
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: you just remind them one time, just like 15 seconds
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: at the top of a YouTube video or something. Just
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: everyone should see it because there is no one who
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: is truly persuadable who saw that speech who would think
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: that man should be president of the United States.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: It's like how many, this is my question, how many
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: non-MAGA voters want to sign up for a campaign that
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: is basically just a kamikaze mission to to avenge Donald Trump.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: That's the whole campaign now. I know they put out
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: a bunch of policy papers early on because he's trying
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: to outflank DeSantis on the right. No one knows about
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: any of that. That's all getting buried. This is where
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: the indictment might hurt him because all he's going to
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: talk about, all he seems able to talk about, is himself,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: his grievances, his problems. That's it. At least in 2016...
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: He was talking about other people's grievances. Now he's just
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: talking about his own grievances. That's all. That's all we
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: got left. It was like a 25-minute rambling speech about himself,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: his problems. Woe is me. I'm a victim. That's all
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: he's got. I don't know. It doesn't feel like a
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: strong message to me. Maybe it'll change. Maybe I'm wrong,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: but it doesn't feel strong. Trump also said he wants
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: Republicans to defund the FBI and the DOJ. And a
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: lot of MAGA politicians and Fox pundits are openly calling
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: for Republican prosecutors to indict the Bidens, the Clintons, Obama,
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: basically any Democrat. What do you think about that? We
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: talked to Kate and Leah about this Tuesday night, but
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: it certainly seems worrisome, but again, not really a message
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: that will resonate with a lot of folks.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think a party whose main goal is
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: either helping Donald Trump commit his crimes or trying to
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: refight political battles dating back to the nineties is going
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: to be particularly resonant. Like that doesn't seem where most,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: where mostly the electorate would be.
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: I am.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Given the incentives of Republican politics. Maybe I hope Kate
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: and Leah are right that the law is very constraining here.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: It's pretty hard to, you know, it's like when Jim, Jim,
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Jim Comer, James Cumber, the Republican head of the Oversight Committee,
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: said that he had taken calls from prosecutors in Kentucky
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: and some other red state looking for ways to indict
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: the Clintons or Biden. You have to find actual crimes.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure what that would be, but it does
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: speak to the dangerous sort of mentality we would have
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: if Trump were to win. Maybe that's the way to
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: think about it. It's not what are they going to
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: do right now with the rural prosecutor and wherever. It's
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: how are they going to weaponize law enforcement if they
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: get power again? And that's a scary thing. And that's
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: something worth talking about as this election unfolds.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Trump's next attorney general will make Bill Barr look like
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: Merrick Garland. Ponderous? I know there's not a lot of Merrick.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: But it is going to be, I mean, you know,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: it's going to be what? Like Charlie Kirk's going to
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: be the next.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: It's going to be Boris Epstein.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: It's going to be part of the scene. I mean,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: we are in, and I'm laughing now, but it is truly, like,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: talking about the guardrails being off, man, it's going to
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: be all revenge all the time. That's the whole purpose
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: of a second Trump presidency. So, prosecutors say they want
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: Trump to stand trial in January of 2024. The defense,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Trump's defense, say they want it in spring of 2024.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: The judge seemed to think, okay, well, we'll figure it
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: out later, but How is this going to work in
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: the middle of a campaign?
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Not great, I would say. I mean, January 2024 is
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: the run-up to the Iowa caucus, which then kicks off
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: a near-weekly succession of primary contests that will decide the nomination,
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: probably by spring of 2024, which may be why Trump
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: wants it then. I know.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: I was trying to figure out why he wanted it
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: in spring of 2024, because you're right. It saves him
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: from the primary issue, but then it's like the beginning
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: of the general election campaign when you think, voters would
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: be least amenable to Donald Trump sitting in court every
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: day during his campaign against Joe Biden.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: John, when you're scheduling your criminal prosecution in Mr. President,
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: there aren't a lot of awesome options, right? It's like,
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: what's better, fall of 24?
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: When's the down period?
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure if he could ask for spring of 2025,
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: he would do that, but that's probably not.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: A credible request. Yeah, he probably wants to, I'm sure
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: he wants to push it till November 20, late November 2024.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I honestly cannot believe we're having a
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: conversation about the logistics of.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: This.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: But logistically, Trump, if he is going to win, likely
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: locks up the nomination in the spring because Republican contests
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: are winner-take-all. So you can get to an insurmountable delegate
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: lead pretty quickly after a bunch of the big states happen,
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: like Texas. So if it's happening in May, he is
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: either the nominee or he's lost. That's probably what has happened.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: But if it's in– like either way, we're scheduling debates.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Republicans are– not us. We are not hosting a Republican debate.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: We should, but I don't think they would agree.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: Although if we just said the crooked media– The invitation
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: is out there. Open invitation, everyone.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Debates, just like being in Iowa or New Hampshire, if
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: it's in that January time period, is going to be
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: tremendously challenging. It's actually challenging for Trump's opponents too. If
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: they have not yet gained real traction, how are they
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: going to break through– with 24-7 coverage, particularly in the
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: MAGA media, of Trump's criminal prosecution for paying hush money
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: to cover up an affair. Do you think you can
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: see Asa Hutchinson trying to give a speech on his
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: tax cut agenda?
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Man, I can't believe we're going to go through this.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: So most elected Democrats didn't say a whole lot about
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: Trump's arrest on Tuesday beyond the very standard now. No
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: one is above the law. That's sort of the standard line.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: I don't think anyone believes that Republicans would be shy
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: of If the Democratic frontrunner for president was arrested, what
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: do you think? You think they'd say, oh, no one
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: is above the law. Let's let the legal process play out. Yeah,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: it's funny, right? No one could imagine them saying that.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Are Democrats missing an opportunity here? What do you think?
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: Yes and no, which is a really strong thing.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: Real pundit over here.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, eventually, yes. I mean, right now, there is
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: a tsunami of news coverage about this. No one is
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: missing this story. And the idea that we're like, why
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: are Democrats not spitting in the ocean right now? Who cares?
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: What would a Dick Durbin press conference do to knock
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: this thing over the finish line?
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I'd send Dick Durbin out there.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: Other than Joe Biden, who we stipulate should.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Not be talking about this.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: That would be.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: Could you just imagine what the norm fetishists in the
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: press would do if Joe Biden mentioned this?
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: They're already writing op-eds about how Alvin Bragg shouldn't have
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: brought the case. This just gives them another couple op-eds.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: And to be clear, this is not Merrick Garland. Alvin
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Bragg does not work for Joe Biden. There's not some
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: norm that says he shouldn't comment on it. But if
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: he were to, it would be an annoying distraction. But
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: let's just say every member of the House and Senate
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: leadership got together. and did a press conference together in
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: the Senate press gallery, and they invited everyone.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: I'm already cringing at this. What's the step-in repeat say?
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: What would that do? Having said that, there's nothing in
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: the polling, and I wrote about this in MessageBox last week,
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: or earlier this week, or at some point, that there's
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: nothing that suggests that Democrats should be afraid of this.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: Like it's not going to hurt us. And I think
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: there is a way that when we talk about, so
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: I would think about two ways to talk about it.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: One is in the run-up to 2020, like we talked
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: a lot about how a message you could use against
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: Trump was chaos and corruption. It's now sort of chaos, corruption,
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: and criminality. And it's just like, that is the chaos.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: It's like. Add another C. Yeah. Great alliteration there.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Real speechwriter trick, if you will. Um, And so it
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: should be part of it. Like, do we need this?
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: We have serious problems. You really need a president. who's
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: dealing with this shit. But I think we should attack.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, does everyone really want to go back
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: in time to 2016 and do another four years of
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: this bullshit?
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Which is now on steroids, because now he's a fucking
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: criminal defendant? Okay, yeah, great.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: But I think attacking all the Republicans for helping Trump
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: and branding him as MAG extremist is the way in
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: which Democrats should be aggressive about this.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I agree. And certainly, besides Asa Hutchinson and,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: I guess, Chris Christie, not many Republicans who were.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Asa Hutchinson and Chris Christie, future Bulwark podcasters.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Hey, I love the Bulwark. I know.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: I do too. I do too. I just think they're
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: going to host a podcast. It's called We Were Wrong,
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: debuting in 2025.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: Honestly, I think at this point, the Bulwark won't let them.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's probably true. That is probably true.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: They will not be inviting them.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: Tim Miller will be chaining himself to the studio door
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: to keep them from getting in.
• 20:42
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: Especially Chris Christie. Okay. I also saw, maybe this is
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: just my own beef, but I saw a lot of
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: liberals complaining that the media is repeating the same mistakes
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: they made in 2016 by devoting so much coverage to
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: Trump and his crimes. And look, I certainly thought the
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: OJS coverage of Donald Trump's arraignment was like beyond parody.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: You know, the like, let's get him on the highway
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: from Mar-a-Lago to the airplane. Let's watch the airplane take
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: off and all that. I mean, it was ridiculous. I
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: kind of think the coverage is warranted.
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: What do you think?
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: I think we have to stop thinking about major media
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: companies owned by large multinational corporations as public service entities.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Yes, of course.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: These are businesses who need to make money, and people
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: tuned into this story. Two million people watched CNN on
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: the night of the indictment. CNN hasn't scratched a million
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: viewers in like seven months. This is... Of course they're
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: going to do this.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: And... This podcast gets more listens than most CNN programs.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: I'm sure we're not going to hear from anyone about that.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: Check your DMs, John. And so of course they're going
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: to cover it. People want to watch it. That is
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: going to happen. I think the way in which Democrats
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: and some liberals are freaking out about this is a
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: misunderstanding of how Trump weaponizes attention. In the Republican primary,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: there's no question that Donald Trump's monopoly of attention is
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: to his huge advantage because those people like Trump. When
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: you widen the aperture to the larger electorate, most of
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: them don't like Trump. And so the more he reminds
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: them of the things they don't like about him, the
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: worse he does. And I think there's– when we go
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: back to 2016, I think a smart political person said
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: this to me the other day, and I think it's
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: really an important insight into how that election went. Trump
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: did not win the 2016 election against Hillary Clinton because
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: he dominated attention. He lost it because the attention shifted
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: to Hillary at the end because of Jim Comey and
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: the revelations and the hacked emails. And because the focus
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: was on her, not him, he won, she lost.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: My biggest complaint about the media coverage in 2016 was
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: the email coverage, not the Donald Trump coverage. Because I
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: think the email coverage... And the coverage of Hillary is
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: why we lost or it contributed to why we lost
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: way more. Every time you can look at the polls
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: over the years and Donald Trump's approval rating, whenever he's
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: in the news, whenever he's tweeting, whenever he's giving interviews,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: whenever he opens his stupid fucking mouth, his poll numbers
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: go down among a general electorate, not among the Republican base,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: but yeah, among the general.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: You can map either Google Trends. data or other data
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: that like word clouds with Trump's approval rating. And the
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: fluctuations are not gigantic because of polarization, but attention is
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: not his friend in a general election.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: I will also say the Republican front runner for president
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: is a deranged demagogue that could very easily become president again.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: And there is no more important story than what will
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: happen in this country and the world if he wins
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: again to cover. There's no more important story. There's a
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: lot of people like, oh, you got to cut and
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: we're going to talk about Tennessee. We're going to talk
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: about a lot of other things. But like everything that's
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: happening around the country, all the bad things, it's going
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: to be fucking amplified by a million if Donald Trump
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: becomes president again. It is extremely important to cover what's happening. Again,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: is it important to cover his plane ride? No. It
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: is not important to cover his plane ride. But when
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump does something... It is worth covering because the
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Republican Party very well could make him the nominee. He
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: is the frontrunner. And therefore, like you just said earlier,
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: he's like, you know, 30, 40,000 votes away from becoming
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: president again because of how closely divided the country is.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Twice as many people were in the stadium for the
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: final four than the number of voters who decided the
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: 2020 election.
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: So that's why you cover him.
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about an even bigger issue. Legal victory from Tuesday.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Judge Janet Protasiewicz won a landslide victory in her race
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: to become the next justice on the Wisconsin Supreme Court,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: where there will now be a 4-3 liberal majority for
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: the first time in 15 years. She trounced right-wing judge
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Dan Kelly by 10 points in a campaign where she
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: was unapologetic in her embrace of abortion rights, fair maps,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: and other progressive values. Huge victory. You want to talk
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: about what happens now that the Wisconsin Supreme Court has
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: a liberal majority?
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: We constantly said that this was the most important election
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: in 2023. Obviously, we do apologies to Democratic governor of Kentucky,
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: who's up for election this year. But it matters a lot.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: And here are three ways it's going to matter for
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: the people of Wisconsin and the nation. The first is abortion.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Wisconsin is relying on a nearly two centuries old law.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: to ban abortion in the state. That is of dubious
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: legal value. And now you will have a pro-choice majority
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: on the Supreme Court who will rule on that law. Second,
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Wisconsin is perhaps the most gerrymandered state in the country.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: There's a state that the last two presidential elections have
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: been decided by less than a half of a percent
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: of a vote, yet the Republicans have a 60-40 majority
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: in the legislature. And one of the groups that works
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: on gerrymandering said that they are going to file a
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: case the day she is sworn in to revisit those maps.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: So you could have different state legislative maps, different congressional
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: maps in Wisconsin up for the election in 2024. And
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: then Wisconsin is where much of the shenanigans trying to
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: overturn the election happen. Efforts to fake voter fraud investigations,
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: fake electors, alternate electors. And Dan Kelly, had he been elected,
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: was someone who participated in the scheme to steal the
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: election from Donald Trump. If he was on the Supreme Court,
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: if there was a MAGA majority on the Supreme Court,
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: the odds that someone other than the winner of Wisconsin's
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: popular vote got the electoral votes would go way up.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: And so this is just like some of the really
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: important victories in 2022 we had in Secretary of State
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: offices and Governor's offices. By putting this majority on this court,
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: we are cutting off yet another way in which the
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: 2024 election could be overturned by a bunch of MAGA insurrectionists.
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: And you don't have to believe us on that. The
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Stop the Steal organizer, Ali Alexander, tweeted after the race
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: was called, because she won, now our path to 270
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: has been severely constrained because I don't think we can
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: win Wisconsin because we can't steal Wisconsin anymore. I mean,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: that's how they think. I should just note, too, because
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: some people were asking, there was a state Senate race
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: in Wisconsin that took place Tuesday night as well, where
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: because of these severely gerrymandered maps, a Republican won. And although,
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: you know, it was a severely gerrymandered district and still
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: only won by like a point. And so that gives
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: Republicans in the state Senate in Wisconsin a super majority.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: And there is some concern that with a super majority,
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: they can impeach Justice Protusewitz. But I think there's some
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: there's there's some confusion over whether you need a two
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: thirds majority in both the House and the Senate. the
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: General Assembly and the Senate or a simple majority in
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: the House of the Senate. But either way, the Republican
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: state Senate leader said, absolutely not. We will not be
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: impeaching Janet Protasewitz. And if they did, for some reason,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Governor Tony Evers would simply just get to replace the justice.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: So some people were freaked out about that. Just putting
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: that to rest so everyone can sleep easy. We should
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: also say a huge thank you to Vote Save America,
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: the Vote Save America community, you donated $ 114, 000 for voter turnout,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: and we saw the highest turnout ever in a spring
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: Supreme Court election in Wisconsin. There was 490 of you
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: who signed up for virtual volunteer signups and made 50,000
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: voter contacts. And that's including the five to six doors
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: Lovett and I knocked on when we were in Madison.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to thank you guys for going to Wisconsin.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: Honestly, I had... Such a good time. It was 10 degrees,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: it was snowing, but I will eat Wisconsin food anytime,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: and the people of Madison are lovely. What a great town.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: I knew that it must have been very cold, because
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: in all of the photos and social clips from that visit,
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: you both had your hats on inside the whole time.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: It was so cold, and I was so stupid I
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: didn't breathe. gloves. And my hands were frozen. And also
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: thanks to the Vote Save America team, our team at
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Crooked who went and worked on this. The Strict Scrutiny
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: team also did a show there. Thanks to the whole
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Strict Scrutiny team. And the 900 people who came to
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: our show on Friday. a Saturday night in the cold,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: including Judge Protasiewicz. So thank you to everyone. There was
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: some anxiety before Election Day in Wisconsin that Trump's indictment
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: would fuel turnout because of all the pissed off MAGA voters.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Why don't you think that happened? And do you think
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Trump was a factor at all in this race? Obviously,
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: he endorsed Dan Kelly and Dan Kelly's last 10-point defeat,
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: double-digit defeat. He did not endorse him this time around.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: probably because Dan Kelly didn't want him to. But do
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: you think he loomed over the race?
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump has loomed over every single campaign since he
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: was elected president in 2016. And the closer a candidate
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: is on the ideological spectrum towards Trump, the more likely
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: they are to lose. That has been borne out time
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: and time again. So whether he endorsed them or showed
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: up does not matter. It actually shows just how much
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: of an albatross Trump is to his party, that even
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: when he doesn't show up, they still pay a price. Now,
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: in terms of turnout, I think there is a kind
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: of misunderstanding of the Trump base, the Trump voter by
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: a lot of political analysts. I think there is definitely
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: a group that is highly political engaged, that lives inside
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: the Fox News fever dream, who understood every word of
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: that deranged speech Trump gave, but they vote anyways. They
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: are the equivalent. They're the right wing equivalent of our
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: voters who turn out every time. Trump's political power is
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: in this other group of people who did not previously vote,
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: who do not turn out for Republicans, not named Trump,
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: who are actually not highly engaged political people. Like they're
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: not watching Tucker Carlson. They may agree with Tucker Carlson
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: on a lot of things, but they're like adjacent to
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: the fever swamp. And those people are not on truth social.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: They're not consuming this. This is not a huge part
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: of their life. And it, It's not sufficient to motivate
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: them to turn out. They vote for Trump in part
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: because it's a protest vote against an establishment they don't trust,
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: a whole host of reasons, but it's not necessarily vengeance
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: against Alvin Bragg. And so that's why it probably didn't
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: show up in this election.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: And I think those people could very well turn out
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: when Trump is on the ballot.
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Yes, they did in 2020.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: Something we should all– what they did in 2020, they
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: did in 2016. And so I think Republicans are getting
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: the worst of all worlds here because– On races where
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Trump is not on the ballot, he is still a
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: factor in the race, but you don't get the turnout
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: that you get from Trump being on the ballot.
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: And to put this in some perspective, here are three
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: numbers to think about. We shouldn't do too big a
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: conclusion from this. 1.8 million people voted in this election,
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: which is a gigantic number for an election like this.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: Stunning.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: But 2.6 million people voted in the Tony Evers race
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: last November, and 3.2 million... voted in the presidential election
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: in 2020 in Wisconsin. So there is a huge swath
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: of the state not represented here. And there are a
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: lot of, just by pure demographic profiling, a lot of
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: potential Trump voters in that group.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: Yes. Any other lessons or takeaways from this race, other
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: than the fact that we need to clone Ben Wickler
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: and the entire Wisconsin Democratic Party for all 50 states?
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Two quick lessons. Once again, Democrats should not be afraid
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: to aggressively run on abortion as an issue. Dobbs has
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: changed everything in American politics. It's opened people's eyes to
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: the power of this issue. I think abortion has played
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: two big roles. And one is even for people insulated
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: from the impact of elections because of privilege or race
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: or economic stature, they had a constitutional right taken away
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: from them or someone in their family by this court.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: And that's real. It has engaged a group of people
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: who may not have otherwise engaged in politics, at least
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: in elections like this one. And second, it gave a
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: real world consequence to electing a MAGA extremist. Like now
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: we know the danger. And Celinda Lake had this quote
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: in this Rebecca Traster piece that in her polling, the
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: country is now 15% more pro-choice post-Obs than it was before.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: And so this should be a part of every campaign.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: It should be big. The second lesson is, I wish
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: we could clone Ben Wickler. He is, but I also
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: sometimes feel like He is such a dynamic force in
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: and of himself that just telling every party chair to
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: be like Ben Wickler is like impossible advice. Like you
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: can't actually do that.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: Probably pretty annoying to them too.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can imagine. But there is one thing that
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: Ben Wickler has done that I think every single state
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: party chair should emulate, which is after 2020, Ben Wickler
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: made it his priority to to convince his donors to
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: become recurring donors. So even if you were going to
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: give $ 120 a year to the Wisconsin party, give it
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: in $ 10 monthly donations. And what that means is the
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: party has a sustainable source of revenue. They can invest
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: and plan over the long term. And money spent early
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: is worth way more than money spent late. And so
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: this is how you win elections like this, is that
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: when the after 2022 was over, It wasn't like the
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: campaign headquarters emptied. There was no more money coming in
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: the door. Ben had a recurring set of donors who
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: allowed him to keep organizers on the ground to keep
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: working on this race. And Democrats have built this gigantic
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: fundraising machine, but it's boom or bust. And it's very
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: hard to predict. A big thing in the news happens,
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: money flows in. Late money flows in. But if you're
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: running a race or building a party, you don't know
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: when that money's coming. So you end up spending most
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: of it on television ads of greatly diminishing returns. So
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: if you're a donor- an operative, a state party chair,
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: try to get your donors to become recurring donors so
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: that you can build the sort of infrastructure Ben has built.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I do think a couple things. Organizing works. Do
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: not give up on heavily gerrymandered states, even with Republican supermajorities.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know how many times we've had the conversation
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: about Wisconsin and it's, you know, this state doesn't even
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: look like a democracy anymore. We don't know how to
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: get out of this. There's Republican, you know. Ben, the volunteers,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: the organizers in Wisconsin, like they didn't give up. They
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: found a way. The Supreme Court race was the way.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: In other states, it'll be different. But like no one
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: should just throw up their hands at gerrymanders and say, well,
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: we can't do anything because of a gerrymander. And so
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: we're screwed. There's always there's always a way. I also
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: think that like between Trumpy extremism and abortion extremism, like
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: the Republican Party is in some big fucking trouble. We
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: just saw like yesterday, Governor Whitmer in Michigan signed a
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: bill that killing the like another decades, centuries old abortion
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: ban in that state. And you know what? Ron DeSantis
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: is about to sign a six week abortion ban in
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: Florida after, you know, doing the more, quote unquote, moderate
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: 15 week abortion ban, which isn't moderate at all before that.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: And why did Ron DeSantis do that? Because he's probably thinking, oh, well,
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: I have to do I have to go back to
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: six weeks in order to win this Republican primary. Well,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: guess what? That's going to be a real fucking problem
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: for him in a general election. And they're all like
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: this now. And you're starting to hear in Republican circles
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: and conservative circles that the full out ban on abortion
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: is really hurting them. And they're starting to realize this.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: I don't think they're going to be able to walk
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: it back at this point. You know, there's Republican legislators
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: in South Carolina proposing that women should get the death
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: penalty if they have an abortion. So clearly the extremism
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: is out there. But this is a real fucking problem
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: for them, I think, in 2024. That plus the Trumpy
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: election denial extremism as well. Those two issues, the democracy
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: and abortion, same issues that won Democrats the 2022 midterms
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: are still very much in play, if not more so,
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: for 2024. And I also think, too, that, like, look,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: Dane County, where Madison is, incredible turnout, incredible margins, even
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: better than Biden in 2020. And obviously it's a spring election,
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: so it's a different turnout model than you get in
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: a presidential. But I heard, speaking of Tim Miller, I
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: heard him talking about this on The Bulwark too. Even
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: if you took away all of Protasiewicz's votes in Dane County,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: she still would have won. And that's mainly because the
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: suburban counties around Milwaukee that usually go heavily Republican, it's
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: usually how Republicans win the state, they're turning much bluer.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: Republicans barely won them in this race. And non-college voters elsewhere,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: all across the state, are voting less Republican or not
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: giving Republicans the margins they were used to in this.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: And part of that is, again, the abortion issue that
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: we're seeing in these highly educated suburbs and even elsewhere
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: that's really hurting Republicans. All right. So voters may have
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: saved democracy in Wisconsin, but it's certainly seen better days
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: in Tennessee. Last week, thousands of students and parents led
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: a peaceful protest at the Nashville Statehouse. to call for
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: action on gun violence after the horrific school shooting that
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: left six people dead, including three nine-year-olds. Three Democratic lawmakers
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: led the protesters in a chant on the House floor.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: And for that, Republicans are now holding a vote today
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: to expel those three Democrats from the state legislature, a
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: resolution that requires a two-thirds majority, which Republicans currently have.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: You know, like the word authoritarianism gets thrown around a
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: lot these days, but like I'm not sure what else
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: to call expelling democratically elected representatives from the legislature just
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: for exercising their constitutional rights.
• 39:29
  Speaker 5: Do you?
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is the future. The way these things
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: have been playing out for a decade in the Republican
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: Party is some seemingly completely insane thing happens, just like
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: a never-before-seen unprecedented breach of democracy, and then it just
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: becomes normal course of business for Republicans. So this is
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: after Roy Cooper won in 2016 and the state legislature
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: tried to take all of his powers away before he
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: got to be seated in office. Then they did try
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: to do the same thing in Wisconsin, Tony, they're doing
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: it everywhere. And so this is likely the first of
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: similar efforts where they can do it. It's not even
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: that dissimilar to what Kevin McCarthy tried to do or
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: did do to three Democrats in the House to kick
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: them off their committees, which was the full extent of
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: his power to do that. He couldn't expel them, but
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: if he could, he certainly would have.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: And, you know, it's Republicans are calling it an insurrection.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: They're comparing it to January 6th. And it's like, yeah.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, fuck off.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: It's so fucking gross. And like, yes, it was rowdy
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: and they spoke out of turnbuckle. There's ways to like
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: if they wanted to, it still would have been bullshit
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: to like discipline members do this. Expelling democratically. These people,
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: people of Tennessee sent these people to the legislature. They
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: voted for them. And now they're getting expelled. just because
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: Republicans don't like that they put pressure on them to
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: do something about gun violence when there was a massacre
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: at a school not just a couple weeks earlier. It
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: is totally anti-democratic. It is anti-American. It's wild. It is wild.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: Free speech warriors over there in the Republican Party.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, cancel culture. So people are wondering what will happen here.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: And again, they could be voting right now, voting by
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: the time you hear this podcast. But if they expel them,
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: there will be special elections. Those three legislators can run
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: again for their seats and get right back into the legislature.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: So like this is it is horrific. And it is
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: also just like it doesn't even have. It doesn't even
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: have an actual outcome that they want here. Like these
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: people are just like there's going to be Democratic legislators
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: who just come back, if not these and probably these
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: three Democratic lawmakers. And I'm sure by bigger margins because
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: they're in heavily Democratic diverse districts. That's another thing. Two
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: of the legislators are black. One is a woman. And
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: they all represent heavily Democratic diverse areas of Tennessee. And
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: the Republicans in the legislature are now just saying they
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: want to disenfranchise those voters because they don't like what
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: those people said. It is pretty bullshit. And you're right.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: And the concern now is there's super majorities in other states. And,
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: you know, the laws could be different and the rules
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: could be different in different state legislatures. But like our
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: other Republican super majority is going to start, you know,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: expelling Democratic legislators just because they can. That's where we
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: are now. Yes. Republicans everywhere. Just they are just using
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: their power just because they can to silence Democratic voices.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: It is wild.
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Well, we're going to get to happier news after the break.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: We have Chicago's new mayor-elect, Brandon Johnson, who will talk
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: to Dan right after this.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: Another key election this week was Chicago's mayoral runoff, where
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: Brandon Johnson won a surprise victory. Mayor-elect Johnson, welcome to
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: the pod.
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: Hey, thanks for having me. This is pretty exciting.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: Well, congratulations, sir. Do you feel a little bit like
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: the dog that caught the car? I mean, it's certainly humbling.
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: You know, you work very hard, you know, throughout any
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: campaign to get to this moment. And you don't think
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: about it when you're going through the process. But all
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: of the conversations that I've had over the course of
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: this run, you know, led up to what obviously is
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: a very remarkable moment for the city of Chicago and
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: particularly for the progressive movement. So, you know, very thrilled,
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: very humbled. But I also recognize that when I announced
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: back in October that You know, that wasn't the entry
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: point into this larger political movement, right? Like this is
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: part of the beneficiary of the movement. But yeah, I mean,
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: it's exhilarating. Certainly it is.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people, at least a lot
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: of pundits and prognosticators, a group that's never been wrong before,
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: was surprised by your victory. They expected your opponent to
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: win or they would be much closer. How did you
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: pull it off? What was key to your strategy?
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, first of all, I mean, I think
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: as Democrats and particularly as progressive Democrats, you know, we
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: don't have to hide our values, right? In many instances,
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: you know how this stuff works, where there's a particular
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: poll and then you have pollsters who tell you what
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: your message should be. And I'm not saying that you
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: should not have that particular component. I'm not saying that
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: you just run out here without having any sort of
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: science or method to the work. But what I am
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: saying is that we don't give voters enough credit, that
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: these false choices that our spaces are oftentimes left with.
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: This is certainly proof that we can have a far
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: more robust conversation about what we know works. And we
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: don't have to be afraid of our values, right? So
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: I think what they got wrong is what they typically,
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: in some instances, have attempted to get right. But as
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: a result of that, we have narrowed our conversations and
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: it's limited the amount of people who actually engage.
• 44:59
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: And so because we were actually saying out loud, identifying
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: our pain, people who would have not never, that might
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: be hyperbole, but people who would be reluctant to engage,
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: you know, finally heard what they've been feeling. And they're like, yo,
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: I could sign up for that. So that type of
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: excitement and energy is something that you can't calculate necessarily
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: in a poll. And that is what I believe pundits
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: may have gotten wrong. The ability to actually speak truth
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: to truth and power to power. And that it would
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: be enough to mobilize people to actually get out and
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: vote and get other people to vote as well.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: National political reporters and the press viewed this election largely
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: through the prism of crime and what role crime would play.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: And I do want to ask you about that, but
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: I want to start with an issue that I know
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: is more near and dear to your heart, which is education.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: You're a former teacher. You've worked with the teachers union.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: What impact did education have in this campaign? How did
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: you talk about it? How did you use it as
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: a way to mobilize a broad coalition to win?
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: Well, here in Chicago, mayoral control has been an absolute disaster.
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: And it's something that I know has been a political battle,
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: not just here in Chicago, but around the country. And
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: because there have been a great deal of destruction around
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: public education, where we have created these stratified systems where
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: those who apply or have certain elements of, I don't know,
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: proof that they are human, I guess, that that gives
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: them better access to a fully funded, well-rounded curriculum. But unfortunately,
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: it has left a trail of destruction, right? School closings, privatization,
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: the loss of the middle-class positions, particularly for women, especially
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: Black women. And because of that type of despair that
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: has been sort of the prevailing form of governance, people
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: understood that my position aligned with everyday people. My children
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: attend the public schools. I'm a product of public education.
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: And so, of course, my opponent, who essentially embodied the
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: antithesis to our belief of a well-rounded education system in
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: which Democrats can certainly get behind and understand that we
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: should not have a system where people have to apply
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: for something that is ostensibly free. And then people saw
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: me as a very credible witness to the goals and
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: desires of everyday people. And then as a result, we
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: were able to capture a number of people who understood
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: that this election was certainly not just a repudiation of
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: the failures of the past, but really an opportunity to
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: build a better, stronger system in which no matter where
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: you live in the city, that type of quality of
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: education and expectation can be realized through an office where
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: the person who was there, myself, actually believes in it.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a very unique situation to have
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: someone who had actually taught in the classroom now be
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: in City Hall. And so maybe if you talk a
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: little with some specifics about what it is you would change,
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: it would bring a different approach based on your experience
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: as a teacher to education in the Chicago public schools.
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: Well, one of the dynamics that I believe, you know,
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: comes up a lot and we don't really spend enough
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: time really digging into it is funding, right? Look, when
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: you love someone or something, you invest in it. And
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: we have a funding formula that I was a part
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: of the organizing effort to change in Springfield. And that
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: funding formula articulated the importance of funding based on need
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: and not per pupil. So it calls for a more
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: equitable distribution of the resources, right? And it's not just
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: about how many children you have in a particular room
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: or a building, but it's about what those needs are.
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: And that funding formula has not been embraced here in
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: the city of Chicago. I'm going to embrace that funding formula.
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: Here's what you get, an additional $ 1 billion, right? And
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: so that was something that distinguished me right away. The
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: second thing is I've been talking a lot about treatment
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: over the trauma. And we don't spend enough time really
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: digging into how impactful living in poverty is. the impact
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: that that really has on young people. We just expect
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: people to show up every single day, regardless of their
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: lived experiences and their living conditions, and be able to
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: perform at a high function without taking into account that
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: we have 20,000 students who are unhoused. You know, the
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: amount of gun violence that happens in places where schools
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: have been closed. And so providing mental health services, making
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: sure that the education system is also providing support for
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: housing and affordable housing. It's a holistic response to education.
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: Children shouldn't be confined to a bubble sheet. That's the
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: last component. A well-rounded curriculum that includes the trades, but
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: also sports and arts. These are the dynamics that are
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: missing from our education systems across America. And in Chicago,
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: under my administration, these are the type of investments that
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: I'm going to make to provide an education system that
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: is inclusive, but it is well-rounded as well.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: There are a lot of people who talk about education,
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: but what they always run into is the funding issue.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: What is your plan to find the money you're going
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: to need to make the education better, to offer some
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: of those extracurricular activities like sports and arts?
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: Well, two thirds of corporations in the year 2022, actually
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: it was 70%, technically 70% of corporations in 2022 did
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: not pay a corporate tax. I mean, we're talking about
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: hundreds of millions of dollars that we are literally leaving
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: out of our education system. And what happens is the
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: lazy form of governance in which we tend to over
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: rely upon property taxes as the means to fund our
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: school system It's just not sustainable, right? I mean, I
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: appreciated what President Biden articulated in his State of the
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: Union address. He said that a teacher and a firefighter
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: should not pay the same tax rate as a billionaire.
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: These are fundamental values that we have as Democrats. I'm
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: not even sure that we should confine it to the
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: progressive wing of our party.
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: Democrats believe that an equitable distribution of the resources should
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: go into the neighborhoods, of course, that have been harmed
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: the most. But we also believe that having a tax
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: structure that challenges corporations and millionaires and billionaires to have
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: more skin in the game, that's how you build a better, stronger,
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: safer society, by not just having an equitable distribution of
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: the dollars, but to ensure that we are receiving those
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: dollars in a way that are sustainable. And that, quite frankly,
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: is just simply fair.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: Now, because I am someone who works at least adjacent
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: to the national media, I'm required by a professional dictate
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: to ask you about crime in this race. Like I said,
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: a lot of the coverage was about it. Your victory
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: is being seen by some folks as a model for
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: how Democrats can deal with crime in the 2024 election.
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: It's important to note you were running against a Democrat,
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: not a Republican. But a lot of the attacks that
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: your opponent– the sort of the anti-crime attacks your opponent
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: did on you looked a lot like some of the
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: attacks Republicans do. Defund the police, those sorts of things.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: I was very interested in– by your response to those
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: attacks and the policies you put forth. Can you talk
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: a little bit about how you dealt with these sort
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: of very aggressive crime attacks on your record? In a
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: city where crime is an issue, it is up in
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: a lot of areas. So how did you do that?
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: Well, first of all, let me just acknowledge that public
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: safety was top of mind for every single voter in
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: the city of Chicago, essentially. And I share my story
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: a lot. Look, I'm raising my family on the west
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: side of Chicago. It's beautiful. The particular neighborhood that we
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: live in, it's the Austin neighborhood. I believe it's one
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: of the highest concentration of Black voters or Black residents,
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: not just in the city of Chicago, but around the country.
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: And as beautiful as it is, it has been disinvested
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: in historically over time. And as a result of that disinvestment,
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: there's a real hyper concentration of poverty and isolation. And
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: so as a result, of course, violence is quite pervasive
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: in the neighborhood. And I've experienced this on a very
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: personal note where gunshots break out right outside our front door.
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: And that level of hopelessness, of course, has spread throughout
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: the entire city of Chicago. What was important in this moment,
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: and I think to your point about the Republican attacks,
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: that we don't, we should not use the attacks from
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: the Republican Party to attack ourselves internally, right? That's, to me,
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: that's irresponsible, right? Because there was a Republican Party that
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: said that President Biden was going to defund the police.
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: The Republican Party said that Governor J.B. Pritzker was going
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: to defund the police. I believe the Republican Party said that,
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: you know, leader Nancy Pelosi would defund the police, right?
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: So We know from whence these attacks come from. So
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: that type of internal wrestling should not be permitted within
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: our group. But to a larger extent, though, what it demonstrated, though,
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: that we don't have to confine the conversation of public
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: safety around these false choices. That the only way in
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: which you can have a safe community is if you're,
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: you know, tough. I put that in quotations on crime.
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: that this is really about a smart public safety plan.
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: So we talked about what works. So I made a
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: commitment to doing what works. One, doubling the amount of
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: young people that we hire. There's a direct correlation between
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: youth employment, and this needs to be year round, youth
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: employment and violence reduction. Thing two, investing in mental health services, right?
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: There's a direct correlation between providing the mental health support
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: that not just Residents of the city of Chicago, I'm
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: talking about all residents of the city of Chicago, that
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: includes law enforcement that wrestle with trauma as well. Making
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: sure that we are providing housing, affordable housing. Now, of course,
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: promoting and training 200 more detectives to solve crime, that
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: was a part of our plan. Implementing with all expediency
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: the consent decree, that's a part of the plan. Making
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: sure that we are spending resources to actually enforce laws
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: that are on the books like red flag laws for
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: individuals who are accessing guns that have guns that should
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: not have guns. Like all of that was part of
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: the plan, but it's comprehensive. It's not one particular component.
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: It's a strategic presentation that gets at the root causes
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: of violence in the city of Chicago or anywhere else
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: in the world, but also deals with the immediacy of
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: being able to solve the crime that does take place.
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: The last thing that I'll say is I appreciate the
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: Los Angeles Times. They wrote a story a few weeks
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: ago where the LAPD was essentially calling for what I'm
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: calling for here in the city of Chicago. It's an
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: ordinance that's called Treatment Not Trauma. And what it would
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: do is it would provide mental health first responders to
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: respond to essentially what 40% of the 911 calls consist of,
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: which is mental health crises. And so by doing that,
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: that frees up law enforcement to focus in on the
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: more severe crime. Because here's the last thing. We know
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: that 60% of the violence that happens in the city
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: of Chicago, it takes place in 6% of the city.
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: We already know where it's going to take place, right?
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: And so having first responders, mental health crisis workers, more
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: EMTs to show up, it provides the smart investment that
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: I believe the city of Chicago has been longing for.
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: And so It's an incredible testament that when you tell
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: the truth, when you speak to the values of the
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: people of Chicago or anywhere else in the country, give
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: voters a little bit more credit. They know how to
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: make a vote and cast a vote for the dynamics
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: that exist, but more importantly, cast a vote for their
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: values because they know those values will prevail.
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: I think that is perfect advice for everyone running for
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: office on every issue, not just crime. So Mayor Elect,
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: I just want to congratulate you on your victory. Thank
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: you for joining us here on Positive America. Good luck
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: to you, and we hope to have you back soon.
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: Thank you. It was my pleasure.
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, we're back. And before we go, Crooked Zone Hallie
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: Kiefer has joined us, the host of the newest Crooked podcast, Ruined. Hooray.
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: We just did a plug at the top. You want
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: to give a plug on your own here?
• 57:57
  Speaker 5: Ruined, the podcast for people who love horror movies and
• 58:00
  Speaker 5: for people who are too afraid to watch them. And
• 58:02
  Speaker 5: I get it.
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: That's me. I'm one of those.
• 58:04
  Speaker 5: We live in a horrifying world. I could watch a
• 58:06
  Speaker 5: disembowelment all day long. You know what I mean? I
• 58:08
  Speaker 5: have a smile on my face. Some people, they can't.
• 58:10
  Speaker 5: And I respect both kinds of people. So I co-hosted
• 58:14
  Speaker 5: with my co-host, Alison Leiby, who is a scaredy cat,
• 58:16
  Speaker 5: as you are. And yeah, give it a listen. If
• 58:18
  Speaker 5: you have any interest in horror, But can watch it
• 58:21
  Speaker 5: or if you love it and you want to hear
• 58:22
  Speaker 5: us talk about your favorite horror movies.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: Amazing. Everyone, please go check it out.
• 58:26
  Speaker 5: Well, so I would just want to say congratulations, gentlemen.
• 58:29
  Speaker 5: You guys did it. Okay. Time to wrap this up.
• 58:31
  Speaker 5: Positive America got Trump arrested. You guys did it. It
• 58:34
  Speaker 5: was you. And I hope you all treated yourself to
• 58:37
  Speaker 5: an extra glass of athletic drinks this morning. Maybe an
• 58:40
  Speaker 5: extra hard-boiled egg is a treat. I know how you
• 58:43
  Speaker 5: guys like to party. Donald Trump is hypothetically going to
• 58:46
  Speaker 5: see some repercussions for some of his horrible actions. months
• 58:49
  Speaker 5: from now my praying to god that actually happens and
• 58:52
  Speaker 5: what better to celebrate his demise i'm sorry made his
• 58:55
  Speaker 5: downfall because even a silver bullet couldn't stop that guy
• 58:58
  Speaker 5: unfortunately what better way for us to celebrate it than
• 59:01
  Speaker 5: with a game a game we're calling well well well
• 59:04
  Speaker 5: looks like everyone's a lawyer now now i guess that
• 59:08
  Speaker 5: was my take from being on twitter It's like, oh,
• 59:10
  Speaker 5: everyone's a legal expert. All of a sudden, hog news
• 59:13
  Speaker 5: to me. The way this game works is you tell
• 59:16
  Speaker 5: me who wrote the tweets that I'm going to give
• 59:18
  Speaker 5: you a tweet. You tell me who wrote it about
• 59:20
  Speaker 5: Trump's arraignment and tell me specifically, was it a legal
• 59:23
  Speaker 5: expert or was it just some fucking guy? And you
• 59:26
  Speaker 5: will receive a bonus point if you can correctly guess
• 59:29
  Speaker 5: the profession of who tweeted it.
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 59:32
  Speaker 5: Okay, so are you ready?
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: I'm so ready. I'm very excited.
• 59:36
  Speaker 5: Here's the first tweet. Now that the charges are public,
• 59:38
  Speaker 5: everyone can see how weak the case against President Trump
• 59:41
  Speaker 5: really is. Who tweeted this? A legal expert of some
• 59:44
  Speaker 5: sort or just some fucking guy?
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: That feels like just some fucking guy.
• 59:50
  Speaker 5: And what do you think this fucking guy's profession may be?
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: I have a strategy for this game.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: Ooh, laid on us.
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: Epidemiologist. I'm going to answer that for every single one.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 5: Okay, great. Dan, I appreciate that. So the answer is
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 5: Donald Trump Jr. And I guess my question to you is,
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 5: what's his job? What does that guy do day to day?
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: Reply guy?
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: He's a podcast host.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: Oh. Uh-oh.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it hurts.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 5: I retract my statement. The greatest job in the world.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: Something that makes you an expert in literally everything.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 5: Well, that's what they tell us. Ahem. Next tweet. Former
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 5: President Trump's indictment is a disgrace, and I don't think
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 5: the left understands what they're getting themselves into. This, of
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 5: all things to do on a charge that no other
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 5: prosecutor would even consider bringing really lights a fire under
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 5: this country. Who said this? A legal expert or just
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 5: some fucking guy?
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: What do you think, Dan?
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: Just some fucking guy.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: You are correct.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 5: That is Jesse Waters.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: We know his job.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 5: And, yes, bringing down democracy as we know it, I guess.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: The second most popular Fox host? After Tucker and Greg Gutfeld?
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 5: A real number two, if you ask me.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: Next one.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 5: Donald Trump is Tupac. Donald Trump's Biggie Smalls. Was this
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 5: person who said this a legal expert, or were they
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 5: just a fucking guy?
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: I feel like you're throwing us a curveball here, and
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: it might be a legal expert.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 5: Dan?
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: Dan?
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: Sure, legal expert.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 5: Yes, unfortunately, that is Trump's lawyer, Alina Hava.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: Who?
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 5: Again, the clarifying who he is.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: Not Joe Tapioca?
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 5: No, unfortunately, it's not Joe. I will say there is
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 5: some clarity. Apparently, one of his lawyers.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: This is the former OAN host, I think, anchor? Is
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: that right?
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 5: I would say based entirely on looking at her for
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 5: one second, that's exactly what it does. That is, she
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 5: does not have a human job anymore. Trump is being prosecuted, charged,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 5: because he paid hush money to a mistress, something it's
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 5: inconceivable he would have been charged over if he was
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 5: never a candidate for office. Who said this? A legal expert.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 5: Just some fucking guy.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: I know who it is. Just some fucking guy named
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: Jonathan Chait.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 5: Yep, you are correct.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: And he did his job.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 5: He writes.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: Does write.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 5: He does write, and he gets paid for it.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: Not a legal expert.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 5: And then finally, at least for this mini game, he
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 5: looks sad. I don't like the prison system, so I
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 5: don't like this process. Doesn't mean that accountability is not owed,
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 5: but this is a granddad having a very bad day. Now,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 5: is this person a legal expert, or is it just.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: Some fucking guy? This is definitely just some fucking guy.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: And it is Van Jones.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 5: It is Van Jones. I will say, who do you
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 5: think is the granddad who's had the very bad day
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 5: in history? If you were to think of the history
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 5: of the world, I'd say there's a lot of granddads
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 5: who had a lot of bad days.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 5: See, most of history are made by granddads who have
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 5: a very bad day usually at.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: The end of it.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 5: You know what I mean? I think that's just how
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 5: it works, you know? And then finally, so that was
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 5: our first mini game, and now we're doing a second one.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: Ooh.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: Bonus round.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: Bonus round.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 5: Bonus round. And only because we couldn't figure out how
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 5: to incorporate them into one game. We didn't want to
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 5: leave the week without giving a shout out to the OGs.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 5: The resistance lives. You guys have been holding out hope since, oh,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 5: November 8th, 2016. And your drumpf dreams have finally come true.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 5: So feel free to take a victory lap. Put on
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 5: your pussy hat and celebrate with your fellow wine moms
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 5: or dads. And then it's back to fighting the influx
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 5: of anti-trans, anti-queer, anti-abortion rights, anti-black pro-gun profanity. The right
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 5: is committed to jamming down our collective throats. But that's
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 5: for tomorrow. Today is for celebrating.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: Go have some brunch first.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 5: Get out of here. Gentlemen, I'm going to read you
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 5: some mouth-watering resistance lib tweets from this week. Just taking, again, celebrating.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 5: And you're going to rank them on a four-tier scale. Okay,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 5: level one, Notorious RBG. Level two, Cheeto in chief. Number three,
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 5: Dumbledore's army. And that was a deep cut from Olivia.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 5: Thank you, Olivia. And then, of course, level four, Occupy Democrats. Okay,
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 5: sitting right on top.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 5: Okay. And then let's kick this off. We have, here's
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 5: the first one. Spare some thoughts and prayers for the
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 5: sad Trumpers out there. For my field of fucks has
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 5: gone bare. And arraignment has me bursting with joy. So there.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 5: And then sort of like that little coy face where
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 5: it's like looking to the side. One to four. How
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 5: is that hitting you?
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 6: What's the second one again Cheeto and Chief I would
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 6: go Cheeto and Chief yeah I agree okay great that
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 6: feels right now this one is from Stormy Daniels so
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 6: I think that does affect the score okay because she
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 6: boots on the ground as it.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 5: Were or not on the ground I don't know I
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 5: can't remember the details.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: Just let it go just let it go I believe her.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 5: Boots were on the ground his boots were and then
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 5: she had a Forbes magazine in her hand here her
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 5: tweet was I'm fully aware of the insanity of being
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 5: a porn star but it's also poetic this pussy grabbed
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 5: back Wow.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: That's pretty... That's hard to judge because it's her. But
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: I feel like the third one is.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 5: It was Dumbledore's Army.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: Dumbledore's Army. I feel like it's a Dumbledore's Army. Okay, great.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: Because she got the pussy grabs back.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: I give her a one. I give her a one.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: She has full, this is her moment. He's been a
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: gigantic asshole to her. She's been the subject of a
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: lot of things.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, you're saying, oh, I'm just like proud. I was
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: more proud of her. That's why I'm giving her a three.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: I guess I didn't get the rating in my mind.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: This is a totally subjective.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 5: Scale that we're making it up as we go along.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 5: So you're both right, actually. It's like watching a mob
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 5: boss finally go down. This, of course, is from Occupy
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 5: Democrats themselves.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: So that's an obvious four. But that's not the whole tweet.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you forgot. Was there some part of that tweet
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: where they said, RT, if you like to watch the
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: mob boss go down. Here's the thing.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 5: Not that one. That was actually just the full tweet.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 5: Believe me. I was as shocked as you are.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: Honestly, I'm giving them a one on that. They don't
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: even get their own rating on that.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 5: They got to come a little bit harder with that. Um,
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 5: this one is, um, the tweet, spanky dumbass coming to
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 5: a prison near soon. And that of course was Brooklyn
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 5: dad defiant.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: Um, that gets an occupied Democrats for sure.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 5: And then finally, last one breaking Donald Trump did not
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 5: get his mug shot taken during his arraignment today. So
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 5: his scam artists, fundraising minions have created a fake one stamped,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 5: not guilty on it and are now selling it on
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 5: t-shirts for $ 47. Retreat if you wouldn't even wear that shirt. Yes!
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: That's a four. That's a four. That's Occupy Democrats.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: Good job, Occupy Democrats.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 5: Fair day.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: That is so good.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 5: Enjoy your week, Occupy Democrats. That's it, you guys. Thank
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 5: you for having me on.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: Thank you for coming on, Hallie. That was a fantastic game.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 3: Couple games.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: I want to play the resistant tweet one every week.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 5: I mean, I think people, I think that, honestly, we
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 5: need another surge. It's going to keep us going until, again, December.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: It was more fun than our last Take Appreciators, which,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: thanks to my two other co-hosts, got a little contentious.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys heard.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 5: Okay. Listen.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: It was a little contentious on the rating system. This
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: was just fun-loving.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 3: Great.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Well, the rating system doesn't mean anything. There's more room.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: This was a perfect aperitif to end this week, I think.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 5: Okay, guys.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you to Hallie Kiefer. Everyone, go listen to Ruined.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: Check it out. It's going to be a fantastic podcast.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: And thank you to the next mayor of Chicago, Brandon Johnson,
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: for joining us. Everyone have a fantastic weekend and we
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: will talk to you next week.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: Bye everyone.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Andy Gardner Bernstein.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: Our producers are Haley Muse and Olivia Martinez. It's mixed
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: sound engineered the show. Thanks to Hallie Kiefer, Ari Schwartz,
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: Sandy Gerard, Andy Taft, and Justine Howe for production support.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: and Amelia Montu. Our episodes are uploaded as videos at youtube.com
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: slash podsaveamerica.