Transcript

Gladiator 2 · Citizen Frame

0:00
Music.
0:34
She will wish my loyalty. I own your house.
0:42
I want your loyalty.
0:44
I have heard of a plot to dethrone him. Yeah.
0:51
But the plan has been delayed.
0:53
Gladiator is to be rescued from the arena tonight.
0:57
I know not why. I know why. I know who.
1:01
Pack. Hey, when we're back here, continuing a little mini retrospective.
1:05
You have the gladiator films.
1:07
We're here to talk later to, what is it? 24 years later.
1:12
Well, the film takes place 16 years later, technically, but this is taken.
1:18
You know, the only reason I think this has come out now at this point is because
1:20
of the success of house of dragon and game of thrones.
1:24
We kind of talked about that in the last podcast where resurgence kind of happens.
1:29
And then these little sub genres,
1:31
as these genres come out of a little cluster of these kind of films.
1:35
Yeah, there's that sort of interest in these types of sword and sandals type fantasy epics.
1:42
Although the Gladiator films are based in truth and history,
1:47
there is a lot of, especially with the second one, there is a lot of playing
1:51
loose and fast with history.
1:53
Yeah. You know, I mean, as far as I'm aware, monkey-dog hybrids have never existed.
2:00
I've looked all this up everything they put in this film is real besides the sharks,
2:06
okay the monkey dog hybrids that wasn't monkey dogs those are baboons okay then
2:11
the baboon dog hybrids no they're baboons they were baboons that's what they
2:16
were I looked this all up we'll get to it we'll jump into it,
2:21
yeah you know.
2:24
I think with the success of
2:27
these recals coming out and guys when i say recals i'm
2:30
talking it's a sequel well the
2:34
but with almost slight retelling of
2:37
the original halloween for example 2018 star
2:41
wars star wars face away a force awakens would
2:44
be a good example yeah but they did it well and
2:48
i enjoyed them and only
2:52
certain genres or certain films can
2:54
get away with that and i want to say at this point franchise franchises
2:58
would be a perfect example could get away with it scream did it well scream
3:02
do exactly scream did it well horror can you do it well well you're going 25
3:07
years later a quarter without the lead actor and a massive oscar-winning or
3:15
all over the board award-winning film,
3:18
You decide to do a sequel. Now, I always say if you can do a sequel,
3:23
what do I always say? Make it bigger, badder, and crazier.
3:27
Make it your own, but keep true to the source material.
3:31
Well, it's like Randy says in Scream 2, with the sequel, there's got to be more
3:36
kills, there's got to be bigger and crazier, obviously I'm paraphrasing,
3:39
and they certainly do that here in Bucket Loads.
3:43
Yeah. I am on the fence with this film.
3:48
And there's a couple reasons why and we're going to dive into it.
3:53
I'm not going to talk much about it. We're just going to jump into it.
3:58
But, wow. Okay. Ridley Scott's back.
4:02
We went from Gladiator, which has an 8.5 rating, which is quite high in the movie scope.
4:07
This got a 6.6. That's a pretty big drop.
4:11
Now, we got Lucius as back, the kid.
4:15
I'm surprised they didn't get the actor who played him before.
4:18
Spetcher, Clark, Press Retreat, Clark or something like that.
4:21
I don't think he would have been buff enough. He's not an action actor.
4:27
He's still okay for himself, though. He was under the Salem's Lot that we covered.
4:32
He was also in Unbreakable and Glass and stuff.
4:37
He's a good actor. He's done alright for himself. I don't think we could buy him.
4:43
I know the guy here, he's no Russell Crowe, but I would think even less so maybe
4:48
if they had brought him back okay alright well we got Palmas Gal he's now Lucius
4:53
the older version Denzel,
4:56
batshit crazy Denzel I love Denzel with a New York accent in ancient Rome that's right,
5:02
Coffee talk.
5:05
We'll hear his coffee talk with Macroness. Yeah.
5:10
We got Denzel, our boy, playing Macroness. Pedro Pascal. That threw me out.
5:15
You got a Paul Pascal and a Pedro Pascal.
5:18
Yeah, well, Pedro Pascal, he's in basically everything these days.
5:22
So you'd be disappointed if he wasn't there.
5:24
Yeah, I like him. I like him. But he doesn't have much to do here.
5:28
He plays General Akesias.
5:31
I'm calling him the general we got a boy Connie Nielsen back he looks beautiful,
5:35
didn't realise he had Botox back then,
5:37
well you know, that's those ancient Romans for you I'm sorry I was just kidding
5:42
that was a rude comment Connie Nielsen I love you the ancient Romans,
5:47
I'm still going to say they were a very advanced society they did plumbing indoor
5:52
plumbing, I was just about to say that if it wasn't for the ancient Romans you'd be I don't know,
5:57
shitting out your back still because they give us drain and all sorts.
6:00
I mean, they were completely brutal as a society as well, but they were also very advanced.
6:06
Now, they're a brutal, they're a brutal ancestral group, but hey, they were smart.
6:12
It was the 280s, man.
6:15
So, we got Joseph Quinn, who I always like to see, new up-and-comer,
6:20
doing a shitload of stuff, things of Stranger Things.
6:22
He plays Emperor Guetta, then you've got Derek Jacoby's back,
6:26
Gracchus, you've got Emperor Caracalla, I think you have Budswelly deeds.
6:30
Matt Lucas is the emperor of ceremonies.
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And so this takes place, this takes place, 16 years after the death of Richard
6:38
Harris or Marcus Aurelius, as we call him. And Maximus.
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And twin emperors have taken over Rome and they just become tyrants.
6:47
They know what the fuck they're doing.
6:49
Right here, the villains, I'm confused who really is the villain here because
6:54
I see these two being idiots.
6:56
I don't see them I don't see them with the I don't see them as threats as they
7:03
did Joaquin Phoenix I think.
7:06
That's the problem we're having nothing gets the actors to play him I like Joseph
7:10
Quinn as I just mentioned but again this is down to direction and a poor poor
7:16
script I think they're actually played well enough but the problem is,
7:22
with having Joaquin as Commodus in the last one with all the complexities and
7:27
the intensities and then all of a sudden you're jumping to two pantomime villains
7:31
who do play them quite pretty well. It is quite a shift.
7:37
Yeah, I guess we can do something different. That's fine, I suppose.
7:42
I do like the opening credits where they tell the first story in animation.
7:48
Yes. I think that's kind of neat.
7:50
That was all right. I like the first one we open up with a big action scene. I love my action scenes.
7:55
I love, again, catapults and arrows and fires and shit. I'm cool with it.
8:00
People get flipping arrows through the head and all sorts.
8:03
Fuck it, it was awesome. That's where Arishat gets killed. we find out it was
8:07
the wife of lucius and obviously he wants to get revenge it's very copy and
8:12
paste guys it's literally they they 25 years and all they did was take the script
8:16
from gladiator tweak some things and this is gladiator 2 pretty much i it's
8:22
pretty much mirror image,
8:23
it's almost like and i hate saying this sorry ridley but i know you're not listening
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because you don't listen you wouldn't listen to us anyway well you know but
8:32
but i'm going to tell you right now, Ridley,
8:35
it kind of sold your boy out. And this is what bothers me about it.
8:39
And Dry Dator puts you back on the map. You needed it. He did.
8:45
At that time in his career, he needed it.
8:47
And it brought him, Cantable, and right back. Then we got Black Hawk Down,
8:52
and always got other great films to come out. Yeah.
8:54
And Mass, Ometheus, blah, blah, blah.
8:57
Got to write his own ticket again.
9:00
And this is how you treat it? You know what? You know what that's felt like?
9:05
Let me finish, Trevor. Yeah, let me finish.
9:07
All right, let me finish. Go ahead.
9:11
It's this, I figured out what this film is. It's an amateur version of the original.
9:17
It does feel like a made-for-TV version of the original. Yeah.
9:21
Like an episode of Game of Thrones or something. I'm not saying Game of Thrones is quite cinematic.
9:26
Oh, thank God. I thought you were going to see fucking Neighbours.
9:30
Right. But the impression I got, and I could be completely wrong,
9:35
was that for many years, the reason this has taken so long to come out,
9:38
well, one of the reasons was that Ridley Scott was probably,
9:41
I don't know, but probably quite reluctant to do it.
9:44
And eventually very possibly due to a big paycheck he just sort of gave in and
9:51
said you know what fuck it I'll do it and I'm going to make it batshit crazy,
9:55
so it's hard to put fully in it,
9:57
yeah that could be right that could be true and he just sort of said fuck it
10:03
give me the money if he's really wanting me to do it and I'll just make it,
10:07
absolutely bonkers the problem with doing that is you're selling out,
10:13
and here's the problem really Scott needed another hit he's had a couple of
10:17
duns back to back to back so he went back to the well,
10:20
it does Tony the memory of the original but here's what sucks now I guess sounds
10:25
like I'm working on it pretty good I need to get this out of my chest I need
10:29
to get the negatives out of the way but there's a side of me.
10:34
There's a side of me who I love I love Clash of the Titans right and I love
10:39
the remake of Clash of the Titans and the Wrath of the Titans I like my Ray
10:42
Harryhausen Sinbad the 7th Voyage and I love Roger Corman,
10:49
this kind of felt like a Roger
10:52
Corman Ray Harryhausen that's just
10:55
a crazy film to me it felt like a big budget
10:58
B movie yeah yeah exactly it
11:02
was an A list director with
11:06
B movie intentions I said that a lot
11:09
of directors who do that but I don't think that's what it
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was what it was his tension let's jump
11:15
into it we'll talk about it here the story guys is literally
11:18
copy and paste now he wants to get revenge on the general who ordered the deaths
11:23
of his wife arishat the general is played by pedro pascal this is where we're
11:28
introduced to our boy our lead paul pascal now paul pascal is a local boy here
11:33
he's dublin kid i think you'll be wrong.
11:37
I'm going to tell you right now, he is one of the reasons this movie might not work.
11:45
The problem is, I think, is that the boots of Russell Crowe,
11:50
the gladiator boots of Russell Crowe are just way too big to fill. That's the problem.
11:57
And either it's, it's nothing as Palmiscal. I haven't seen a lot of his stuff
12:01
and I wish him the best. He's got a young hole crew ahead of him.
12:05
But there's no at the end he gives that big speech I didn't care there's a lack of presence,
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like I mentioned in the last podcast Russell Crowe can just look at you and
12:17
you'll know what he's saying same thing with Clint Eastwood they have that presence
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there's something there that brings you in but there's something there.
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And Denzel Washington Pedro Pascal,
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Connie Nielsen kind of phones his one in but Joseph Quinn and Derek Jacoby,
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they're all there to do their jobs and they do it quite well and he doesn't
12:44
and even all their small bits,
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he doesn't hold a candle to the other ones they just mentioned in this film.
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I wanted to see more of Denzel.
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I wanted to see more of the two emperors going nuts.
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I wanted to see Denzel as a
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star here in terms of absolute you know
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like proper bonkers characters i couldn't keep my eyes
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off the emperors just because they were so batshit crazy and
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i and i like that sort of thing you know so i'm
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conflicted here as well i must admit because you
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know throughout it i was entertained to quote maximus
13:17
in the original are you entertained i was but
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if you're going into it looking you
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know a proper serious sequel to the original it does tarnish it but being honest
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the best way to view this film is to look at it as in some mental gymnastics
13:37
in your mind have it like some sort of I don't know crazy dream version of the original you know.
13:45
Yeah, it's, you know, but it does have, it is gorgeous.
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There's some really nice visuals, some quite disturbing, some quite meaningful.
13:58
Like you had Maximus have the visuals of the, you know, the cornfield or the wheatfield.
14:03
Yes. And he's brushing his hands on top. It was a sense of peace and calm for
14:07
him, where this is the opposite, where he falls.
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After he fails at the battle, he falls into the ocean.
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And, yeah, he wakes up in this dreamlike state, and you see these tornadoes
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in the background, and the storms are brewing, and waves.
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And you see his wife, his then wife, being taken away on the boat.
14:31
You know what is it the uh that not
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death the the ferryman's taken her over yes yes to the after
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night yeah to the afterlife it's a very very
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creepy little scene and then he wakes up and and then
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he wakes up and he gets up and he sees the problem is that they have to burn
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let me please they've got to then they then they show everything back in color
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and he's out of his dreamlike state and he realizes they've lost the battle
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and then they're they're taking the bodies of all the dead and burning them.
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And they make them all witness this. And this is the reason why he's so pissed
15:08
that he needs to kill the Admiral.
15:09
And this is... Well, what's at the end? But it's visually, visually,
15:14
this whole opening sequence is very, very good.
15:18
Only problem is our boy is himself. It's a complete cut and paste of Russell
15:22
Crowe, Maximus' backstory and reason for vengeance from the original.
15:28
Yeah. so yes it is there are some very cool visuals here but we've seen it all
15:36
before and done better by the same director.
15:40
Yeah yeah and he gets taken he's now on a slave ship now he's going to be put,
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he's going to get bought by Denzel who's now playing pretty much the proximal
15:51
character of Oliver Reed,
15:53
and it's literally it's just it's lazy Come on, guys. Give us something. Yeah.
16:02
I would say that- Well, no. They give us something.
16:05
And this is where the baboons- They got to fight a bunch of baboons.
16:11
And it's pretty brutal, actually. These things are fucking- I guess baboons are vicious.
16:15
They are fucking nuts. Well, they are. Yeah.
16:19
And so you do instead of- Yeah. And this is where Dead Cell goes.
16:24
I want him because he sees him. He ends up biting one of the baboons.
16:28
And again the scene I really liked in Gladiator when the two men.
16:36
Hagen and Juba all, you know, they eat his stew to make sure it's not poisoned.
16:42
Yes. And then they pretend they're dying. They have a good laugh. The camaraderie.
16:45
They do the exact same thing here, but to let people know he's part of the team, they make monkey sows.
16:53
Yeah. Not only that, there are other efforts here, you know,
16:56
especially with the Doctor character who he befriends and stuff here. Lucius befriends.
17:02
It's just, again, copy and paste of the camaraderie of the gladiators and the
17:06
slaves in the original, but they weren't here as well.
17:11
So, I'm confused. The Admiral, he's married to Ocelia?
17:15
Yes, yes he is. And I would say as well that... Because why is he always sneaking
17:20
around to go see her then? I don't get that.
17:23
Because, I don't know, it's... She's sort of outcast and he...
17:28
Because it's something to do with her being Marcus Aurelius' daughter.
17:32
It is explained and she's sort of been pushed to the sidelines so she has but
17:38
yet so because he's like the sort of the right hand man general to the emperors,
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he's meant to be more on their side
17:49
of the fence even though there's a tension there basically between Conning Nielsen
17:53
and the emperors and all they're married right well they're at least together
17:59
you know I know that But it sort of dials back to sort of keep the editors happy.
18:07
So, yeah. Or so they are married, but they're not telling anybody.
18:10
It appears to be something like that. Yeah.
18:13
So it is. I would say that both Pedro Pascal and Connie Nielsen here are both
18:18
very weak in this, I found. I'm just going through the motions.
18:21
Yeah. It's nice to see them. I like both actors a lot.
18:24
Yeah. But I thought for sure if anyone Connie Nielsen would bring her a game
18:28
just because she knows the character.
18:31
So pretty. I thought.
18:33
Yeah. And Pedro Pescalo, I think the problem with him is he's the flavor of the week.
18:39
And so is Joseph Quinn. Actually, so is Joseph Quinn. He's in everything now.
18:43
And so I think what's happening is these actors are overtaking so many stuff
18:47
that they're filming three movies at a time.
18:50
And they're not giving up their all. They're not giving up their all.
18:53
And so I do think agents and directors and producers need to look at that.
18:58
We need to get him. Well, he's just got done doing fucking blah,
19:02
blah, blah, and The Last of Us Part 2 is coming out, and blah,
19:05
blah, blah, and I don't know.
19:08
When Pedro Pascal does die in it, it's actually a very good death,
19:12
but for me, Connie Nilsen's was unintentionally hilarious.
19:18
I don't, I have a problem with that scene, and we'll get to it.
19:24
I thought it was... There's nothing with this film. There's a lot of editing issues.
19:29
Something went on here. Somebody edited something because it's very...
19:33
It's underplayed. It feels underplayed.
19:36
Denzel's in one scene and then he cut too easy in another scene.
19:39
The famous death scene we'll talk about confused the fuck out of me.
19:43
Denzel Washington has clearly read the script here and said, this is nuts.
19:48
So I'm going to run with it in a nuts manner.
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And he's the star here. without doubt. He's also the main villain,
19:56
it turns out, but he totally stays the show.
19:59
He does, and he deserved the Oscar for it, because he is the best part.
20:02
Well, Denzel's good in anything, he does. But he does, because what Keen Phoenix
20:08
did in the original, I even said that, that the first act, first couple acts,
20:14
I kind of felt sorry for him.
20:16
Because I felt he was being pushed aside. He's just a kid. He doesn't know really
20:19
what he's doing. He's got to find his niche.
20:21
His father's kind of disowning him and banning him a bit. I kind of see where
20:25
he was going but then you find out no he's just a sociopath.
20:28
Denzel's character you thought the whole time he was trying to help he was going
20:33
to help Lucius by getting him the ad role which he does do but the whole time he's playing everybody,
20:40
he wants power he wants complete creative he wants creative control he wants
20:46
to rule Rome himself but then again to the credit of this film it's actually
20:51
you know he does have his reasons as well because it turns out that he was a
20:55
former slave of Marcus Aurelius.
20:58
So he's sort of out for revenge as well.
21:01
Yeah, yeah. So, and that's, that character is the best written character in
21:05
this entire film. Oh, definitely.
21:08
I like the, I do like the Emperor's book for more comedic reasons,
21:12
certainly not for depth or anything like that.
21:15
Yeah, so here's the, then we get to, well, like any good gladiator film, we have a rhino fight.
21:21
Yes. Which was fucking awesome. I do like little things like how is he he's
21:28
going to get out of this and I thought the trick with the dirt was really clever,
21:34
where he blinds not blinds but he covers the wall the dirt goes in the air so
21:40
he loses direction the rhino goes head on with his nose apparently the rhino
21:45
scene was originally written for the first film but they practically couldn't
21:50
do it because rhinos which they found out can't be tamed at all.
21:54
So, due to the advances in technology and CGI, they were able to do it with
21:59
this film, but the rhino scene was originally written for the first film.
22:03
I looked that up. They did do this in the old times.
22:08
So the baboons and the rhinos did happen.
22:11
The sharks is where we'll have a problem. Jaws!
22:15
That was... Yeah. But.
22:19
I do like, at first I was a little thrown off. So when we see,
22:24
we're introduced to Lucius, well, Krause sees him, and there's the mom.
22:28
She doesn't recognize him because she gave him up for his safety, as we find out.
22:34
After the minute Maximus died, she let him go to get out of there because he
22:39
would be the next heir to the throne, and they'd be going after to kill him.
22:43
So I went with that. So she's not going to recognize him right away,
22:47
but he'll have this quote that he keeps saying, I can't remember the quote. I could care less.
22:52
But she recognizes the quote. After he wins a battle, he says something.
22:56
And she goes to his old bedroom.
22:58
And on the wall is this quote. And that's how she finds out.
23:02
Which I did like that. It's a quote by Maximus.
23:06
What is that? The original quote by Maximus in the first one.
23:10
Yeah. And it's in his room.
23:15
Well, yes. But it's also in this dungeon where Ravi, the doctor who used to
23:21
be a gladiator shows Lucius as well, but you know where, where he gives Lucius
23:26
Maximus his sword and armor.
23:28
Yeah. Yeah. And then, but it's in his old room, I believe when he was a kid. Yeah, possibly. Okay.
23:36
That's where she sees me recognizes it. I believe, I don't know.
23:39
There's so much editing going on here. You get fucking confused with where we're at now.
23:44
But yes, I'm okay with that. I'm going with that. I'm going with that.
23:48
And I'm going with the fact that she's now married to the Admiral.
23:52
So I do like this conflict where he wants the Admiral dead because of what he did to his people.
23:58
And so you've got this turmoil. Yes. It's a good setup.
24:04
It is a good setup. There's a lot of good stuff here. And I was ripping on the film pretty good.
24:10
But guys, I'm still going to tell you, I'm entertained.
24:14
It's kind of like it's kind of like when we talked about the exorcist film that
24:18
came out a couple years ago that everyone hated I enjoyed it I gave it a pass
24:22
oh I hear it's that let me finish please you rat bastard whoa.
24:27
You like that personal attack I haven't used that in a while right oh dear yeah,
24:35
I hear that exorcist film it was an insult let me finish go ahead fuck.
24:43
So I'm watching, I watched it the other day again, and the whole argument to
24:47
me was a problem people are going to hate it.
24:50
I think if it just came out as an exorcist film, not an exorcist film,
24:54
but just an exorcist exorcist film, it would have been more well-received.
24:58
But because you put the exorcist name on there and you're owning it as an exorcist
25:03
sequel, you better back it up.
25:05
And I think that's where I'm at with this one.
25:08
If this didn't have the gladiator name and you called it batshit crazy Coliseum
25:14
movie, I probably would have fucking praised this film. You would like it a lot better.
25:21
But I'm still enjoying it. Yeah. So I, it's, I would, I'm not going to hate the film, guys.
25:28
I won't do it. I think the reviews are actually pretty fair. 6.6, 7.
25:32
This might be a little high, but. I would say overall that it's,
25:35
I don't want to like give my final thoughts on it, but generally it's pure pantomime.
25:39
And entertaining nonsense.
25:43
Well, you bring up nonsense. Let's get to the fighting sharks.
25:47
Now, I looked this one up, and historian says, no.
25:53
A, where's the water going in the Coliseum? Exactly. Doesn't make sense.
25:57
B, how would they transport sharks back in that time?
26:02
They said what they did do, though, which would have been a better scene,
26:06
I think, and warrior, crocodiles. what they said made more sense and that would.
26:12
Have been historically correct.
26:15
And Ridley Scott says, now I'm putting sharks. So right there,
26:18
and Ridley Scott I can see being a perfectionist in his craft.
26:21
That's piggybacks on what you said where he's like, you know what?
26:25
Fuck it, I'm going to go balls to the ball and do what I want.
26:27
Yeah, and you know what? Crocodiles would have worked so much better.
26:30
For me personally anyway because I'm terrified of crocodiles. And I've never met them.
26:36
Or fill it with snakes, like asps. Crawling eyes for me. Something.
26:41
Worst nightmare. It would, but even the sharks, here's the funny thing is,
26:47
and then these two ships come in the Coliseum, and I'm just trying to get where
26:51
they're holding the water. That's what I don't get. It doesn't make any sense.
26:54
Basically, the Coliseum, I've been to the Coliseum, by the way,
26:57
the real Coliseum, on holiday, not in the ancient Roman times,
27:01
but obviously, but. We are, you old fucking bastard.
27:05
That'd be a great gladiator, but no, no, you're just a fellow like this, actually. Yeah.
27:10
A shark bait. But anyway, no, no. I've never seen a grown man make it, Billy.
27:15
But anyway, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever, the whole water in the Coliseum.
27:22
Where does the water come from? Where does it go to?
27:25
How's it hold? Is it a swimming pool now? What the fuck? Yeah.
27:29
I know they're good at plumbing, but come on. Exactly.
27:33
Yeah, I know they invented the toilet and the drains and all that sort of thing,
27:36
but that's taken it a bit far.
27:38
Yeah. But I did. But this is the problem I'm having.
27:42
I'm fucking enjoying it. This is something you see from fucking Paul Anderson's film.
27:48
He's taken the Three Musketeers that came out a few years ago.
27:50
Just flying ships and just going batshit crazy.
27:54
And there's some, but I get it. That's my point. I expect that from a Paul Anderson
27:58
film. And I'm talking to the guy who did Event Horizon and the Resident Evils.
28:02
Not after that filmmaker that anyone loves.
28:05
Yeah, you're talking about it. Talking about it.
28:08
Paul W.S. Anderson is the one I'm talking about.
28:12
But he just goes batshit crazy. But here, it shouldn't be in this.
28:18
I expect it from him, not from Ridley Scott. So that's why I'm like...
28:23
My jaws dropped in shock. This was a Gladiator film.
28:26
But at the same time, I'm not turning it off. I'm fucking just eating my popcorn,
28:31
enjoying it. Yeah. I mean.
28:34
The sim scene is brilliant. When he moves the ship to break their oars,
28:39
and then the oars fly back and cut them all in the throat and shit. Really cool stuff.
28:44
Entertaining bollocks, essentially. You know? Oh, man.
28:50
Jesus. but I really like it whenever it starts to really kick off you know with
28:54
Denzel and the emperors and stuff and you know there's also you know to be fair
28:59
to it there's touches where you know the smaller emperor where he,
29:04
there's actually stuff that's actually quite accurate from a sort of medical
29:08
and historical point of view with him and that he basically somebody say something
29:13
like yeah he's got a disease of the loins and it's going to his head well basically
29:17
what they're saying is he has syphilis and syphilis does apparently.
29:21
Don't know. I've never had it. I don't know of.
29:24
Here at Citizen Frame, it's open forum. So Trevor, talk to us more about your... No, no, no.
29:32
What's going on there, Trevor? What's going down today, Trevor?
29:36
Are you having problems?
29:38
I have the A-Team. But apparently syphilis does drive people insane. So it does.
29:45
Didn't they say that's what killed Al Capone? Yes, yes. In prison, yeah.
29:51
I think so. Yeah. No, no, I think he did that, Syphilis and Alcatraz.
29:55
But no, no, Syphilis apparently drives you insane and affects your mind.
29:58
So I like that sort of touch with that, you know, the younger emperor.
30:01
And you know what? You know what? I was fucking pissing myself laughing.
30:05
Whenever, after he killed his brother with Denzel, which is actually pretty
30:09
cool scene, he promotes the monkey, the pet monkey.
30:14
The yeah that's yeah yeah because now,
30:22
Denzel is the one.
30:26
Denzel has played everyone. See, at first, I didn't think Denzel was the one who snitched.
30:31
But he is the one who kind of planted the seed to let everyone know that there's
30:37
an ambush going to happen.
30:39
Yes. He's planted them all off against each other. That's where the Admiral
30:42
and Lucille get arrested for treason. Lucilia get arrested for treason.
30:49
But I thought it was Therix Therix who did it,
30:54
the guy that owes money to Denzel yes that
30:57
play by Tim a very well known British actor called Tim McHenry who was in like
31:02
Blackadder and Doctor Who and like loads of stuff I think he was in one of those
31:07
Hugh Grant Richard Curtis films you know the one with Julia Roberts and stuff
31:11
well known British actor pretty reliable yeah.
31:16
Notting Hill was the film Notting Hill, yes, yes, yes.
31:20
Wonderful film. It's been a long time. I know Rhys Evans is in it. Not my cup of tea.
31:27
Rhys Evans is, but not... Well, there's no incest, so we wouldn't want to not
31:33
watch that. But I love... Absolutely.
31:35
I was like, in fits of laughter, whenever the smaller emperor,
31:40
after killing, putting his brother off in a really, you know,
31:43
sort of quite gruesome, horrific scene, pretty much his pet monkey,
31:47
And Denzel, the counselor.
31:51
You know? Yeah. Yeah, brilliant. This is where it gets a little, yeah.
31:55
I mean, this is where those are things I don't like. I like how Denzel plays
32:00
on his brothers. Yes. Because he sees.
32:03
And obviously, the wiser one is Caracolet. He's the one.
32:09
He's the wisest one. He's the Joseph Quinn one.
32:12
But Denzel knows this.
32:15
Because he knows, Denzel knows this, so he's got to go to the get-out,
32:20
who's the nut job, who's losing it, and play him. You need to get rid of him,
32:24
because he's going to get rid of you.
32:25
Because he knows Denzel can't go against the other one, because he's too smart. Yes, exactly. Exactly.
32:31
It's basically a game of chess that Denzel's playing against them all. Yeah.
32:37
And actually doing it very effectively up until the end.
32:41
I do like the scene where he's going to make the admiral have to fight to protect
32:48
his wife from being killed. Yes.
32:51
With all these soldiers coming at them. Yeah.
32:54
And this is where I like the concept. I like the idea.
33:01
And there's some great shots in this film. We'll get to it real quick here.
33:04
But what doesn't work is the handling of the two characters who come back from
33:12
the original, same actors and everything, which is Gracchus and Lucilia.
33:19
Gracchus, I think. Now, you see Gracchus getting killed off off camera pretty
33:26
much. Yes. Which I think is piss poor.
33:28
I thought Derek Jacobi deserved a better death. or if you're going to kill him,
33:31
focus on it so we can feel sorry for that character because he's earned that.
33:37
I also think when she gets an arrow just all of a sudden, boom,
33:41
she gets the arrow in her chest and she's like, oh fuck.
33:45
That is a disjustion to that character. You needed more for those two deaths.
33:51
More emotional death. Yeah.
33:54
Especially those two characters. Absolutely. And I think Derek Jacoby,
33:59
his character, I think there is a lot of stuff has been edited out of this,
34:04
you know, scenes with his.
34:05
I mean, it could be wrong, but he is in it very little and he should be in it more.
34:09
Connie Neeson's death for me was unintentionally hilarious because everything's
34:12
going batshit crazy at this point anyway, even more so.
34:17
And so whenever she gets the arrow, it's a combination between quite a weak
34:21
death with no emotional power.
34:23
And it just becomes a bit silly and funny to me.
34:27
The problem is, now you're dealing with all this when a monkey has just become the emperor.
34:32
You know, we're joking about it, but it's, come on, this is getting.
34:37
Oh, bonkers? They could have, they could have, they should have dropped that whole monkey thing.
34:43
I see it in respect to the entertaining nonsense factor. Yeah, but.
34:50
On top of that, you have. We're going with bastard crazy quite a bit with this,
34:55
but at some point you need to work out. I know. I know.
34:59
And this is casual you get. This is the problem. Because it's going some batshit
35:03
crazy, you just took out two characters and you have to blink to see it happen.
35:07
Yeah, exactly. And I don't think... There's no power there.
35:10
Yeah. Now, there's power. I mean, this scene could have been an emotional grab bag.
35:16
You see Derek Jacob, he's a garage who gets it, and he slowly gets...
35:20
He gets stabbed in the throat, but it's so quick, you can't see what's happening.
35:23
And then she gets arrowed.
35:25
All these key characters are getting it, And then you got the Admiral.
35:28
All these people are there to help him. He's taking over.
35:32
Lucius is taking over. His friends are all helping out. And now it's just him and the Admiral.
35:37
Yeah. Yeah. And he says to him, I loved your mother.
35:43
And I love Maximus. And I would have died for him.
35:46
Yeah. And then it's for all of this bags you have going on, all this batshit craziness.
35:54
And then he gets arrow great shoot
35:57
great great visually stunning and beautiful actually for how just soul destroying
36:02
it is but when he gets it and he just falls dead right away it is a powerful
36:08
hit but man that whole scene would have rectified some of the batshit craziness we're getting here.
36:15
If it if you did the same attention with
36:19
lucilia's and gargazzo's death i i agree
36:22
but they actually deserved as you
36:24
said earlier they actually deserved more honorable and better
36:27
deaths than they get in the end it's just at
36:30
this point while you're watching it as an audience member you're
36:34
just rolling with me anyway i was just rolling with the madness so whenever
36:37
their deaths happen instead of being they
36:41
their deaths having an emotional punch i'm
36:44
just laughing because i'm just on a different plane now
36:48
a different wavelength because of all i mean
36:50
you've got a monkey as emperor you know promoted
36:54
fracely promoted you have matt lucas from little
36:57
britain doing master of ceremonies you know you
37:00
know you have denzel washington running about in a new york accent cutting people's
37:05
heads off randomly you know so this is you know that's not even before even
37:10
mentioning the sharks and all the rest so yeah at this point you've detached
37:15
emotionally as an audience member and you're running with the madness for me anyway. Yeah.
37:20
Well, I'm getting, it's such, it's so chaotic. I'm getting the scenes mixed
37:24
up because it was a scene where.
37:27
The Admiral had to fight Lucius by himself, and the wife had to view her.
37:33
She was tied up, and she had to watch this.
37:35
Yeah. That was before her death. I got those two confused.
37:38
The next shot is where Lucius has to defend her mother, his mother, from getting killed.
37:45
That's where Gracchus and her both get it. Yeah.
37:48
My point was that scene should have been powerful, if not more powerful,
37:54
than what we got with the Admiral's death.
37:56
And that would have been an emotional power weight two
37:59
solid scenes that brings this film back together but
38:02
you don't go that route and you go to a batshit crazy fight scene with him and
38:09
Denzel which I do really really enjoy this scene it's a good fight scene battle
38:13
of the death yeah yeah and I love when he puts on Russell Crowe's gear yes you
38:19
knew that was coming of course,
38:21
but when he's under the water and you hear Denzel's fucking just
38:26
Hounding that sword on his chest When he's underneath the water And you can
38:30
hear the tinging, tinging But it won't break the chest plate And how it pretty
38:35
much saves his life And then he gets up Man, when he cuts off his hand And gets him with his stomach.
38:42
Fucking awesome It is a good final fight scene And it was obviously going to
38:48
be a bit cheesy At the end where the two Opposing sides of,
38:53
Lucius' Roman Sort of legions and the Praetorian Guard were going to realize
38:58
their error of their ways and say, yeah, let's fulfill Marcus Aurelius' dream
39:03
of room for the people and live happily ever after. But they didn't in real life.
39:08
You know? And then you got fucking Lucius walking in the middle of the arena. Yeah.
39:16
Grab him some dirt and he says, speak to me, father. I was like, oh my God.
39:23
And then ghost hand Russell Crowe. The ghost of Russell Crowe's hand appears.
39:28
No surprise that didn't happen.
39:31
Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, we're always going to go that route anyway, you know.
39:38
On top of it, right now, it is quite predictable, most of this,
39:41
if not all of it, you know.
39:44
Yeah, I don't want to like it because it's a gladiator film with the name.
39:52
If it was something else, I would
39:53
really want to like it. But that's why I piggybacked on my exorcist thing.
39:58
Even though it was an exorcist film, it was titled an exorcist film.
40:04
And people won't watch it because it's not an exorcist film,
40:07
it's a piece of shit, those people should be doing the same thing with this
40:10
one. And I think most of them are actually.
40:13
Well. But I'm going to stay true to what I said. I still enjoyed that Exorcist film for what it was.
40:18
So I'm going to do the exact same thing with this. Yes, it's got the Gladiator name.
40:23
Yes, it's kind of an amateurish version of it.
40:27
But fuck, man, I was waiting for Sharknado to show up.
40:31
I mean, I just, it's wow. It's basically Gladiator if it was directed by Tommy Wiseau.
40:40
No, I wouldn't go that far. But, yeah. Yeah.
40:46
But if it wasn't for Denzel Washington. Yeah.
40:49
I mean, that's why he got the Oscar nod and the BAFTA. Yeah,
40:53
all these nods for it because he does steal the movie. Oh, totally.
40:56
He plays everybody. He played me. I would say he's a good guy, but he's not the bad guy.
41:03
And then he shows her that he was once a slave of her father.
41:07
And so you kind of like, God, you all can see why he's a little rebellious.
41:11
Yeah. But all the time, he's just a greedy fuck. Yeah.
41:14
But it goes far to saying he actually saves this film. You know what?
41:18
As you know, I'm a sort of hardcore Exorcist fan, and I hated that recent Exorcist film.
41:24
Here, maybe I'm, although I'm a fan of the original Gladiator,
41:28
maybe I'm not big enough a fan to be insulted by this, essentially.
41:33
So I have to admit, I was thoroughly entertained throughout the film.
41:38
I see it's false and it's flaws and I can understand why people would not like
41:44
it, especially hardcore fans of the original.
41:46
I get that, but from my own personal point of view, it was just pantomime through
41:53
and through and enjoyable nonsense.
41:56
Yeah. It's one of those films where you come out and you go,
42:00
I should hate this, right? Yeah.
42:04
That's it. That's all I can tell you. Guys, we can't tell you much more but
42:08
you have to see it for yourself I would say see it it's got some great visuals
42:13
very cool gore Denzel is brilliant in it they're all very good,
42:18
I think the lead is no Russell Crowe and that is any kind of a downfall besides
42:25
for the cheats and the copy and paste of the original stuff,
42:28
the downfall is the lead actor they needed,
42:32
someone like Matt Damon or younger Matt Damon somebody who has a presence,
42:37
an on-screen presence, that could pull that off. Someone like Russell Crowe?
42:41
Well, yeah, or, you know, I'm trying to think of, you know, up-and-comers,
42:46
you know. By the way, Chris Hemsworth would have pulled this off.
42:49
I meant to say to you, do you know that shortly after the original was released,
42:54
Nick Cave, he of Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, wrote a version of the sequel
43:00
to Gladiator that featured,
43:02
and it was very nearly made, at least it was discussed anyway,
43:05
where they featured Maximus going to the Underworld and basically fighting demons
43:10
and all sorts of craziness.
43:13
So, maybe it's in the tone of that.
43:16
That would have been stupid. Well, what would that get? It wasn't far from it. There's a...
43:25
Gladiator is historical drama. Yes. Really. Where. This is fun to say.
43:32
Well, no, I mean, no, the drama, no. I mean, like I said, I looked up a lot of it and it was legit.
43:38
Besides the sharks, that was when he went batshit crazy.
43:41
But. They're playing decent fast, though. It was just too, yeah.
43:45
Well, we already discussed it. We're not going to go any further.
43:47
All right, guys, listen, we're going to hit some Westerns now.
43:51
Join us next as we talk God rest his soul Gene Hackman,
43:56
and we talk about his Oscar winning performance in The Unforgiven I remember
44:01
seeing Unforgiven and we all know it's a fucking classic but I remember always
44:07
wondering is Gene Hackman the bad guy in this,
44:11
and I know a lot of people go what of course he is but when we talk about it we'll see,
44:17
and it'll be a good one to talk about Can I just, while we're talking Westerns,
44:24
maybe just get a quick request in of, since we're going to be doing Westerns
44:28
soon, one of Ciaran's favorite films, Squirt of Cowboy.
44:35
You need so much fucking help. I love how you picked me, but that whole joke was based around you.
44:41
You made that up, bud. Why do you flip it on me? It doesn't make any sense.
44:44
I know, but you made it up.
44:45
So it's your baby? No, no, you're...
44:50
You know what if you guys want to give us a reason just oh fuck me,
44:55
if you just want to reach out to us please do it send us a frame underscore
44:59
podcast on instagram and of course facebook i'm gonna end this one now because
45:03
i just can't i just did i just can't deal with trevor anymore,
45:10
um that's it that's all we got chat soon bye,
45:19
you.
45:19
Music.