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Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: The Mother Goose Land Murder · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Quality dais, But Joseph Scotten more Mary Mary quite contrary,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: how does your garden grow with silver bells and cock
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: shells and pretty mates all in a row? I think
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: we probably all recognize that nursery rhyme because that's what
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: it is. I mean, kids for ages have used that
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: over and over again. I remember that it was many
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: many moons ago being in nursery school is what they
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: used to call it, and we used all of these.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: I think that teachers and I know nothing about teaching
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: small children, but they use these repetitive rhymes in order
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: to form language and get into rhythm, if you will.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: But you know, these nursery rhymes have dark origins. I
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: think that many of you have heard that with Mary
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Mary like contrary, its origin is said to go back
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: to Bloody Mary, who was Queen Mary the First of England,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: and it has to do with her execution of hundreds
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: of Protestants over a very dark period in British history.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: And if you didn't know, some scholars believe that silver
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: bells and cockle shells are actually references to not things
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: that might adorn your garden, but actually they're tied back
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: to torture devices. That were used in dungeons back during
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: those days. Today, we're going to talk about a case
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: that has linkage to Mother goose If you will, seemingly innocent,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: a place where you can go and enjoy your children
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: and watch them play Mother goose Land. Actually, but like
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: these nursery rhymes, there's a very sinister underlying story here.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Joe before we dig into the fairy tale part of this.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: I had no idea that there were little parks all
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: over America that had names like Storytime Park or Mother
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Gooseland until I saw the headline in this story. It
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: says Mother goose Land Murder. Can't Ohio, There actually was
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: a place called Mother goose Land. It's now known as
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: Cityfield Park, but it's still identified by those from the
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: area as Mother Gooseland. And we've got city Field Park
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: workers that are dumping trash cans nine thirty in the
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: morning and they get to a big receptacle and it's
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: heavier than it should be, and as they look inside,
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: it appears to be a human body wrapped in plastic
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: has been shoved into the trash can. They immediately call
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: nine to one one and the identifier is Mother Gooseland.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: So that's where today's story comes from, the Mother Gooseland murder.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: But you were telling me about places that you knew of, Joe,
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: and in particular in New Orleans, where you grew up,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: going to a place that was kind of like this.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Right in the heart of City Park in New Orleans
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: is a location called story Land, and it's been there
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: since the fifties. And when you walk through the gate,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: it's you know that scene in Willie wanng Go where
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: they the kid the real Willy Wonka. I'm not talking
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: about this thing with Johnny. I'm talking about the real
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Willy Wonka with the great late Jeene Wilder, Thank you,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: the late great Gene Wilder, where they opened that door
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: and you see all of that candy. I don't know
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: about you. That was magical to me. That's the way
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Storyland was when I was little in New Orleans. And
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: it's got all of the Mother Goose characters. There. You've
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: got old Mother Hubbard, You've got actually Mother Goose in
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: the air flying on her goose with children on her
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: on the back of the goose, as well, the little
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: old man that lived in the little old house, you know,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: the crooked House, and it just goes on and on,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, and you could walk and run and play
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: through all of these things. It's a glorified playground. But
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: they also have like a little roller coaster. And it's
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: not just me. If you talk to any kid that
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: was the grew up and I split time growing up
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: in New Orleans when I was little. You know, we
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: you know, we lived in various locations, and but those
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: memories you know that you have when you're a kid.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: I remember going to the streetcar line and New Orleans
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: is famous for the street car that runs down Saint
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: Charles and being there with my aunt and it was
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: the first place I ever put a penny on a
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: track and the streetcar would run over it, you know,
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: and crush it down. And of course that was adjacent
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  Speaker 1: to one of another beautiful UH park and zoo called
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Audubon UH the Autumn Zoo, which again, you know, is
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: a magical place for me and all of the kids
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: you know that inhabit these spaces. But Dave Brother, I
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: had to tell you, it's when something that is this
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: innocent winds up in the midst of what truly is
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: a real horror show, you know that that imagery from
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: your past. I think that there were probably a lot
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: of places around the country that were similar to this,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: because the place we're going to talk about today is
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: it has a lot of similarity. It sounds like to
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: you know this place that I that's beloved to me
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: as you know, as a kid that grew up around it,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: you know, down in New Orleans. Well, can you kind
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: of take us through this real quick, because you know,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: I got to tell our friends kind of sit back,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: and this is something that I think shocked both to
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Dave and I when we heard this story.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: Now, whenever our stories begin, Joe with somebody calling for
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: police to do a welfare check. It's a pretty innocuous
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: thing when you think about it, but in reality, for us,
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: it's usually a loved one, a friend, an employer that
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: had an expectation for you to be someplace and you weren't,
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: and so they pick.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Up, Hey, let me let me step on you just
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: for a second. I apologize. I want everybody to understand this.
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  Speaker 1: Welfare checks by law enforcement are done minute by minute
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: all over the country. This is not something There's not
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: something sinister that pops up every time, and so writes
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: you our day because with this particular case, there's a
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: big reveal here. I got to tell you.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, here's your big reveal. Rachel Sheridan doesn't show up
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: for work and her mother, knowing the relationship with Sean
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: Go and how volatile he can be, her mom. Rachel's
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: mom calls the sheriff's department and asks them to do
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: a welfare check on her. Deputies show up. They already
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: know that Rachel drives a maroon Jeep Liberty, so they're
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: looking over the parking lot to see if they see it.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: They don't.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: They go to the.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: Apartment and the door to the apartment is open, not
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: just unlocked and can turn that.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: We're talking.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: The door is open, they can see inside, but deputies
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: don't see anything that anything that actually gives them the
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: right to walk into that apartment right away without a
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: search warrant. So it's suspicious, so they stayed there. They
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: called their boss, Hey, we need a search warrant. Here's why.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: So they're waiting on search warrant to rive so they
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: can go in the apart and when they see maroon
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: jeep Liberty being driven by Sean Go right in front
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: of him. So hey, let's find out what's going on.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: He's driving her car. He has to know where she is,
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: so boom, they go ahead and light him up. Well,
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: he goes to pull over and Sean go takes off
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: and runs. He flees the scene. He flees through the
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: woods and everything else, and he gets away from him.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: They search for him for hours, can't find him anywhere. Finally,
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: the next morning they do find Sean go At a
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: homeless shelter and they take him into custody on some
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: other warrants that he has out standing. Still they haven't
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: found Rachel Sheridan. They don't know where she is. Then
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: that's when the nine to one one call comes in
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  Speaker 2: from Mother Goose Land Park now known as City Field Park,
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: and the workers calling with we got a body wrapped
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: in plastic in the trash.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: Can this Mother Goose location? This is up in you know,
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: adjacent to Canton, Ohio, Stark I think it's Stark County location.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: And you know this park that is there, The Mother
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: Goose Park has roughly been in operation or was in operation.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: And here's the odd thing. It opened in the fifties. Dave,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: the Singh's been shuddered since the eighties, and you can
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: see the pictures of it online and there are all
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: these kind of magical looking, magical looking creatures that are
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: still existing. There's like a big whale in a lagoon
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: with its mouth open that kids could run into. How
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: can you resist not wanting to go into this place?
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: But when you take a look at it, it's got
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: kind of because it's not being used, it's kind of
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: got a real creepy vibe to it now because nobody
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: is maintaining these things. These things are always brightly painted.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: You know. It's the type of stuff that you want
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: to see when you're a little kid. It attracts you
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  Speaker 1: to it. You want to come in, Hey mama, can
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: we go in here and play? You know that sort
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: of thing. This is the kind of place that you
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: would see though, and it's it's in stark contrast, you know,
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: to like what I love about Storyland in New Orleans
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  Speaker 1: that's really kept up, brightly colored, all those sorts of things.
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  Speaker 1: And you know, you think about the the deposition of
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: a body, it would I think that most people would
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: not think that it's a place where a body would
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: be found, maybe because it's an abandoned location and it
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: has been shuttered since the eighties that it's it's nobody's
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  Speaker 1: going to find it. And you know, sometimes it's just
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: dumb luck where, you know, because how many cases do
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: we have where people just like vanish off of the
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: planet and you don't have any kind of idea where
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: they went to the fact that they were able to
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: find her body, I think relatively quickly is amazing and
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: there's a bit of I'm not gonna call it joy,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: but there's a bit of relief for the family because
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: how many cases have we covered over the years where
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: you know, and I still I get contacted all the time,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: particularly over social media, can you help me? You know,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: we haven't seen our and you know, helping people in
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: that particular way is not really my forte. But you know,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: there's so many people out there that want to know
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: where their loved ones are. But I'm interested in something
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: that you said earlier about the welfare check. You know,
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: when police typically go and they must really have put
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: the screws down on the cops out here, because if
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: they're not crossing over that threshold to go into the
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: location without a warrant, and it's a welfare check most
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: of the time if you can if you know that
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: somebody's in danger, as long as you don't if the
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: door is open and you're calling out to them to check.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: I guess it's probably departmentally dependent. When it's a it's
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: it's health and safety is actually kind of the the
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: thread that runs through this. From a legal standpoint, that's
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: what they're trying to do. You know, you can't go
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: looking in hidden places, and that's that's what the warrant
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: would be for. But it's again dumb luck that when
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: they pivot and they see her car moving down the
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: road and then you got a guy. They chase this
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  Speaker 1: guy down and he bolts out of the car and
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: runs off into the woods. There's your sign. As they
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: used to say. You know, one of the questions I
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: would ask when I would show up at a scene,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: because you know, when by the time the Emmy or
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: corner investigator arrives at a scene, you don't there's so
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: many actors on the stage by that time. Commonly, my practice,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: if there was some kind of domestic beef that occurred,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: I would seek out the actual beat unit, like the
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: officer that was in the patrol car. The unit that
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: patrols this area their beat, and I would go to
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: that individual, not to their sergeant, not to their lieutenant
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: who was there, is like, hey, can you tell me something.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Have you ever rolled out here on anything? Have you
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: ever been by here, because you'd be surprised. You know,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: when people see cops, you know just kind of and
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: I hate this term, but they'll say cops are loitering around. Well,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: they're not loitering. They're sitting there and they're watching. Now
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: I'm not a big fan of, you know, speed traps,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: but if you're in a neighborhood and you see a cop,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: you know, that's kind of sitting there. They're watching most
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: of the time, and they know they've got their finger
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: on the pulse. They know more than people suspect about
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: each house on the block because they will have been
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: called out to domestic beefs, they will be called out
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: when children are missing, they'll be called out for an
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: elderly person that has fallen in the house, and they
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: know that that and some you know, you go back
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: to this idea of you know, one of the things
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: they teach is community police and I don't know really
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: how well that has worked, but the idea of the
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: cop getting out of the car and just walking up
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: to a fence and talking to the elderly people that
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: live on the street. Hey, how you doing. I'm officer Mike,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: and this is my area. I wanted to introduce myself.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: So cops have a lot of knowledge of that area.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: But you know, Dave, I don't know if they even
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: begin to suspect what they would eventually find inside of
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: that house, let alone, or what they would find at
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: the Mother Goose Park. Here we go, boilerplate statement incoming.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: I found no evidence of forced entry or struggle. Wish
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: had a nickel for every time I'd written that down.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Wish I had a bitcoin for every time i'd written
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: that down. I'd be a very very wealthy man. But
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: because you know, it's included all of our reports, if
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: we don't see anything, but Dave, they they saw something
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: at that at that home. Not only was the door open,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: and there's no indication that it was necessarily forced open,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: it was just open. You know, it's not like it
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: had been kicked in necessarily. That's an important part, Jeah.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Because as they arrive, they're doing a I want
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: to go back to the welfare check. Yeah, they're already
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: warned that this is a vow of the situation. Mom
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: is concerned because she didn't show up for work. She
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: always does, and she lives with a man who is
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: not oftentimes doing things in her best interest. They have
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: had a volatle relationship. He has allegedly beaten her before
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: enough that family and friends have been worried. And when
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: they get there and they're looking inside the apartment, they
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: don't see anything that jumps right out at them that
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: says there was a struggle or a fight in here.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: And as they're waiting for that search warrant to arrive
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: so they can go in because at this point they're
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: not seeing the whole apartment. They're just seeing a living
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: area and probably a kitchen, you know. Yeah, And it's
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: only after they get the search warrant. By the time
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: they've already got they they know Sean Goh has taken off.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: He's running, so what is he He's driving her car
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: and he's now running.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: So and she's nowhere to be found.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Right, I still can't find her, still have not been
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: able to verify, you know. So they go into the apartment.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Now this is after you know, they get the search warrant,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: and I can't imagine Joe, that the search warrant was
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: very specific, because it would have been we're looking, you
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: don't know where she is, We're trying to find her.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: So would the warrant say they can go in the
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: apartment and look under things and see if they can
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: find share it.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: You know, maybe it's it's going to be more specific.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: And most of the time you have to have some
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: kind of probable cause that's going to be an ingredient
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: into this.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: But the welfare check in and of itself is not enough.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: They can't know that it's well unless here's the thing.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: If you if you visualize, let's just say that that
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: you walk into a scene, I think that a magistrate
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: or judge would bite on the idea if you see
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: what appear to be and remember in forensics, we cannot
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: say something is blood until we test it and determine
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: that it is blood. But if you see what appears
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: to be blood at a scene, and you couple that
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: with anything that you might find in another location like
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: broken or turned over furniture, certainly any item that might
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: have specific evidence on it, I think that a magistrate
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: would probably be willing to issue that warrant and you
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: can go in and you know, and you can go
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: in and process the scene at that point in time,
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: but yeah, you have to hold back because anything that
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: you do absent a warrant, you're really running the risk
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: of that being thrown out from an evidentiary standpoint. And
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: if that pe and you never know, Dave, what is
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: actually going to be critical to proving the case or
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: disproving the case with any type of item. Let's say
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: that you have some kind of of instrument that might
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: create a particular pattern. Okay, if you discover that instrument
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: and you don't expressly have permission to do that, or
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: the warrant is written inappropriately, or whatever the case might be,
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: then did you know that that item can't be included
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: as part of the evidence. And so you have to
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: That's why they're very very careful about these things because
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: for so many years, you know, people would just they
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: would go in to a scene and you know, with
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: their hair on fire and not not show up with
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: the appropriate, appropriate documentation relative to a warrant, and a
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: lot of stuff winds up being excluded, and if in
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: fact it is excluded, then that huge building block for
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: your case is blown at that moment in time, Dave,
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: all right, And in this case, when they when they
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: get the search warrant and they go in, they're able
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: to get past the open the living area where they
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: didn't see anything. They're able to get into the apartment,
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: and it's when they get to the bedroom that they realize, Okay,
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: we got a problem. We have a major problem. I
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: remember Sean Go Rachel and Rachel Sheridan and Shuan Goh
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: lived together in this apartment, and he has been arrested
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: and is at jail on other charges, not to do
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: with this particular case of Rachel at the time, Remember
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: he was in her car. And so it's the next
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: morning he's in jail, and they've gone into the apartment
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: and they find in the master in the bedroom that
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: they share, that something has occurred. They see signs of struggle,
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: they see signs that point to a bloody fight. Yeah,
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: in the bedroom. And it's from that point on and
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: this is my I was curious about this because how
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: far did they go? We people bleed, a bloody knows
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: can cause a lot of issues. I'm also clumsy. I
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: tend to trip and fall, so if something is knocked over,
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: if there's a little blood, you could explain that. But
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: we have a violent man in jail and we can't
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: find his living girlfriend, and so where do you go
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: from here?
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the blood can be easily explained by any
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: defense attorney. We've heard this over and over relative to DNA,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: because if you're domiciled there, it's not unreasonable to expect
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: to be able to find blood that has issued force
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: from one of the occupants. That's that's also you know,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: domiciled there, so and that can be explained away. Yeah,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: I felt, you know, like you said, I tripped, I
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: hit my head, all right, that explains the blood that's there.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Or yeah, you know, when you're thinking about Rachel, maybe
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: Rachel had a bloody nose. I don't know about you.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: I'm prone to bloody noses. You know. I can be
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: sitting in church and all of a sudden, I feel
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: that warmth, you know, beginning to run down my lip
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: and it just spontaneously happened. Well, any attorney worth their
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: salt can make that argument, you know, if you find
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: But when you have this kind of dynamic event that
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: has occurred inside of the dwelling, particularly in the bedroom,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: this very intimate space, and you've got there's a level
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: of reasonableness that comes into this. So if you've got
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: you don't expect, say, cast off blood from an instrument
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: to be on the walls. If you have a bloody nose, okay,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: you don't expect to be to find a mattress that
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: is super saturated with blood, or sheets and towels and
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: all these sorts of things and you know, maybe soaked
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: into carpet or onto the hardwood floor. And the patterns
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: themselves showed that this was a dynamic event with movement
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: and deposition and all these sorts of things that have
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: a certain level of velocity. You know, back to the
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: example of a bloody nose, if someone is standing there passively,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: and that's a passive stain where it's just kind of
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: free falling through the air and it drops onto the
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: ground and it's kind of a classic droplet that you
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: would think that drops straight down and there's not much
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: dynamicism to it. You can have actually maybe multiple of
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: those spots, but you're not going to have it in
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: this kind of an elliptical pattern that occurs with a
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: little tail on it, you know, where it's cast off
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: and those sorts of things. So you have a reasonable
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: expectation that you would find blood there. But in an
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: environment like this, if you've got multiple locations where blood
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: has been shed, this is gonna you know, this is
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: going to give rise to this idea that an attack
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: probably occurred in this environment. But you know, Daved, the
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: thing about it is is that still, even though you
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: have this evidence that's there, you don't have a body.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: And that's a problem in that moment, you don't have
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: a body, and that's the rub you know, you think about,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: you know, the absence of in what a chill because
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: if you're a police officer, you're still thinking that if
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: if there is blood and there's no body, maybe there's
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: a chance she's still alive. Maybe there's a chance we
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: can find her. And unfortunately, you know, in this case,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: that's that's not necessarily true.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Dave, Wow, Well, you know they're looking for Rachel Sheridan,
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: her living boyfriend is sitting cooling his heels in jail.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: They find blood, a mess in the bedroom and then
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: they get the sanitation workers at nine point thirty that morning,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: they call nine to one one found a body. Now,
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: they did not do a whole lot to look at
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: the body. They found a body and stopped, which is incredible.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: I don't I wonder when I saw this, I wonder
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: how many times people have found a body and immediately
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: started poking around at it versus stopping everything and calling
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: nine on one.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I've had, I've had. I've had multiple
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: scenarios that have occurred. I've actually had civilians that have
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: come over. I've actually had civilians UDEs with decomposed bodies
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: where and don't ask me what compels them to do this,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: because when you're around a decomposed body, it's most of
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: the time it's one of the most important things you
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: can you know that you can encounter in life. I've
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: had civilians that have encountered bodies like that and they
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: they roll the body over, whereas I've had I remember,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: in particular, I had an autoerotic case with a gentleman
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: that had hung himself on a door on a door
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: hinge with a dog cop nude in a microtel if
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: you're familiar with those, and the little lady that was
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: that was the housekeeper. She came to the door and
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: she had just arrived here in the country, I think
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: she was from Guatemala, if I'm not mistaken. She couldn't
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: speak English. She's pushing her cart up and down the
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: hall day and opens this door, and this nude guy
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: hanging by dog collar with his hands tied is literally
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: staring her in the face and daved. When I got there,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: she the way she had alerted that she had found
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: the body was her screaming, and she was sitting this
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: poor this poor lady was sitting on the floor clutching
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: her rosary with her knees pulled into her chest, doing
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: Hail Mary's in Spanish. And she was terrified. So you
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: never know what anybody's reaction is going to be, you know,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: when it runs the gamut, you know, just like deaths
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: run the gamut. You don't know what your going to find.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: But if you're a sanitation worker, you come across some
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: pretty disgusting things, as you can imagine, as there's probably
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: stuff that you and I could never fathom. You know
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: that those people encounter out there in the streets of
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: things that we throw away that they go out and collect.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: And it's interesting how that initial contact might very well
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: impact the case or affect the position of the body.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: So that we don't necessarily appreciate it in its pristine condition.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: But I can tell you this, when they finally alerted
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: the police in regards to this young woman's body, they
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: didn't touch it. They called and what they discovered when
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: the m e got out there was horrific. Sean Go,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: this person that I would assume, at one point in time, professed,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: you know, professed his love for Rachel Sharon, told her
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: that he cared about her, told her he would take
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: care of her. And you know, you know who knows,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: you know, with these domestic cases that we catch like this, Dave,
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: nobody knows anybody. You never know the level of violence
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: that anyone is particularly capable of because you don't know
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: what their you know, psychological history is, you don't know
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: what their criminal history is. But Dave, I got to
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: tell you. With Shaun Go, he he had he had
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: a reputation as a bad seed, if you will, bad seed.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: Now that's a dated comment, you know.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: I also like to use the term good egg every
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: now and then too, But just go with me.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: She was a bad egg. Another reference to Jane Wilder.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Yep, there you go, the eggdicator.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: So in this particular case with Sean Goh. As we
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, as soon as police saw him. As they're
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: standing outside the apartment trying to find the very beginning
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: part doing their welfare check on Rachel, they see Sean
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: in her vehicle and they give chase. He takes off
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: in bolts. They get him locked up. And this isn't
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: the first contact that Sean Goh has had with police.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: At the time he's arrested, he was wanted on a
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: number of different issues. He allegedly stole a handgun from
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: a residence in the North Canton area a couple of
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: months before Rachel goes missing. He had physically threatened Rachel
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: in the past, and friends and family knew about these
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: threats because he didn't just make a threat and that
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: was it. He made threats and he actually punctured. The
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: actual stories is cut holes in her tires. Now that
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: I'm always picturing a puncture, you know, like with a
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: knife or a screwdriver or something, but cutting holes in
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: her tires seems to take it to a different level.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: It's a different phrase than I've ever heard, but.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it does. That means that you're jamming. You're probably
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: jamming a sharp instrument in there. And I'm not talking
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: about like a piece of rebar. I'm talking about like
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: a knife, and you're going, you're you're carving the tires,
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: is what it comes down to.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: Going into the sidewall. So the tire cannot be repaired.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: It will have to be replaced, which is a lot
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: more expensive. Ten bucks to patch a tire hole versus
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: you know, one hundred dollars for a whole tire.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, and that's if you get a low
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: end tire. Right. And you know, this couple is unmarried,
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: they're living in an apartment together. She's driving a cheap liberty.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: She doesn't strike me as somebody that's got a ton
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: of money. So when you strike out at her like this,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: it's not just it's not just a violence that's implied.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: It's also it puts a financial burden on her. He
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: would have known that because yeah, they yeah, absolutely, And
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: you never know what's going to set him off at
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: any particular time, what button is going to be pressed.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: And you get somebody that has a history of violence,
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: I mean it violence extends for me, when you go
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: to someone's home and you actually steal a weapon, that's
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: that has that has a flavor of violence to it
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: in that environment, even if you don't have physical contact
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: or you're not threatening, you know, what's your purpose to
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: specifically go to a location and steal a gun and
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: then you have this action with the tires. I can understand, Dave,
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: I can understand why her mother would have been terrified.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine? I bet there are so many times
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: she had probably broken with her and this, this again
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: is a thread. I worry about you, darling. Please is
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: you know, can you break away from him? And you
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: never know what the dynamic is is somebody saying, you know,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: oh I love him, He's going to change all this.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: They never changed, Dave. They don't. It's it's it's the
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: same story over and over and over again, and you
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: wind up with something that winds up in this horror.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: This horror showed that that's eventually discovered.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: Just remember, any guy that will hit a woman once
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: is not going to stop at once.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: No.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: So here we have the sanitation workers called nine one one,
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: Rachel Sheridan's body. They find her at nine thirty or
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: that's when they call. So we know we have the day,
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: the moment of discovery. But we don't know exactly how
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: long she has been dead because we don't know other
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: than the welfare chet call. We know that police recall
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: the specific time after she didn't show up for work,
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: but we don't know right now. Can they determined based
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: on the body they find at nine thirty in the morning,
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: can they go back in time and figure out approximate
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: time of death?
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: Joe, Yeah, and I And just to give you a
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: little insight, you know, when they first rolled up on
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: this case at the home, they the police had shown
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: up I think on July second, at about twelve thirty
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: two pm, so you're going into the afternoon hours at
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: this point in time. They were able to hook him up,
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: you know, because he bolted, you know, while they were
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: there initially. They actually found him on the third, and
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: they got on this pretty quick. I don't know if
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: they were able to track him somehow or you know where,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: if they were pinging his phone or what exactly happened
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: they got it.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: I that was they got him at a homeless shelter, right,
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: And I'm.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Talking about his movement relative to depositing Rachel's body, because
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: they actually found her on July the third, so it
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: was it was actually less than twenty four hours when
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: they finally found her body. Yeah, it would be. She's
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: going to be at the outer margins, Dave, as far
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: as postmortem changes go, you know where we're looking for
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: the rigidity to begin to release. Also, and this is
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: in this is in July, Dave, And so it's gonna
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: it'll be hotter. And as I've mentioned before, when it
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: comes to obviously body temp and certainly riger mortis, those
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: are going to be slightly accelerated. And when they find her,
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: she's actually cocooned and plastic. So he's taken time to
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: wrap her body up in plastic and has driven out
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: to the Mother goose Land area and found a plastic
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: trash can, not unlike you know what we have at
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: our homes that we roll out to the street if
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: you live in town, and you know, you put by
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: the road and the garbage guys come by and pick
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: it up, and you know, it was just the sanitation workers,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: you know that looked into the can and saw and
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: can you imagine their horror, you know when they lift
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: that lid up and they look inside and there's her
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: body inside of this of a rubbish container. You know,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: the things that you discard. And I think that says
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: a lot here, Dave. It speaks to potentially how he
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: viewed her as as refuse, something to be thrown away,
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: treated horribly, And there's it's fascinating to me, as horrific
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: as this is. As horrific as this is when bodies
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: are cocooned like this, for us in forensics, it's actually
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: there's an upside to this. The upside is is that
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: there's a containment of evidence that takes place. So anything
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: that's on the body, you have the opportunity to retain that,
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: and not just retain it. Here's the cool part. You
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: actually keep it in place on the specific surfaces of
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: the body. If it's depended upon how it's secured. So
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: let's just say you've got a you've got a bit
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: of evidence, say a hair or something that's on the shoulder.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: If they're cocooned in this wrapping, you can still find
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: that hair in place on the shoulder and it might
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: give you an indication as to where his hands were
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: on her or where his head was in relation to
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: her body. Did he slough hair, did it fall off
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: of his head onto her bloody handprint that may transfer
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: to her clothes because you know, you're having to manipulate
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: dead weight here. If there's been a spillage of blood
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: that's so significant, he can get blood on his hands,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: transfer those contact points to her shirt, maybe the cuffs
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: of her pants, maybe to her bare legs, Drag her
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: onto the sheeting, the plastic sheeting, wrap her up in it.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: The other thing that it protects, because plastic is a
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: non poor surface, it protects latent prints, Dave. We've recovered
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: latent prints off of plastic sheeting before. And then if
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: there's blood involved, that's a different type of print from say,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: for instance, a latent print that's oil. That's the you know,
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: generated from the oil in our fingertips. If he touches
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: her body with the bare hands and he transfers his
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: fingerprint onto that surface and it's the medium is actually blood,
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: that's a different type of print that can be recovered.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: So the fact that her body is cocooned, even though
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: it's in this filthy, rubbish container, she's kind of protected
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: in that sense. But that's not really what turned this case, Dave.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: Is it they're able to determine police say that you
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: know she was attacked in the bedroom and then her
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: body was drug and placed and the damage, the wounds
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: were inflicted about her head, yeah, for the most part.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: And they said she was beaten with an object. And
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: they're only willing they being police and the medical examiner.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: They're only about to go as far as saying that
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: she was hit with a hammer at least once. And
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: I find that to be an odd comment. There was
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: only of all the battering that was going on, Yeah,
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: one was obviously a hammer. I mean, they weren't.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: All right, so if and they also believe, if I'm
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: not mistaken, that she was probably asleep when this occurred. Sorry, Yeah,
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: and no, that's a significant point. So this coward waits
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: until this diminutive and she is diminutive, Dave, a young
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: woman is asleep, and he begins to essentially wail on her.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: It's not surprising that they're identifying a single hammer strike here.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: They found a hammer at the scene. But you know,
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: this is not something that is well thought out. This
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: is very frenzied. They were able to delineate that she
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: had been struck, that she had ten specific injuries that
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: apparently are all blunt force trauma, and this coward could
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: have potentially have shown up with a hammer, or he
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: could have beaten her in her sleep with his fist,
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: striking her all about her head, and then he goes
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: and gets a hammer, and she's so she's so wrung out.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, just imagine if you're awakened from a dead sleep,
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: and I know you can imagine this, if you have kids,
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: you can imagine this. You're slumbering, you finally lay your
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: head on the pillow, and suddenly there's a scream that
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: lets out in the middle of the night in your house.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: You're completely disoriented. How much more so with her if
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: she doesn't see this incoming and she's attacked in her
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: bedroom like this, And I guess the you know, the
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: coup de gras is going to be to take a
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: hammer and have this single hammer strike. The way they
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: were able to delineate this specific injury away from the others,
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: and I'm not saying that the others could not be
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: hammer strikes, because hammer can be held in any number
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: of ways. And this was, by the way, a claw hammer,
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: which means it's got a nail extractor on the back
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: of it with the two prongs. The very common hammer
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: that we see and that most of us own. This
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: is actually the blunt and end, the leading edge that
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: she's struck with, and hammer strikes are very specific when
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: you see them in the morgue. When we're doing these examinations,
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: what would happen is her head would be probably completely
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: shaved at autopsy because it's impossible to appreciate all of
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: the injuries. And so when a body is when you
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: have head strikes like this with women in particular, because
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: women commonly have more hair than guys do, we actually
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: shaved their heads at autopsy.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: I got to ask you something, Joe, and maybe this
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: seems silly and no, but would you have to ask
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: the family about that?
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: No? No, I've had that question asking me before. This
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: is a search. No, we'll tell the funeral director, okay,
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: and the funeral director generally will. Now we've had families
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: that will ask the question, you know, why did you
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: do this? And here's the sole reason where it's an
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: evidentiary search. You know, you're you're trying to assess the family.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: I think you know as time goes by, because they
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: probably can't have an open casket. And there have been
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: times where we've had these really traumatic events where I've
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: seen them get wigs, and funeral homes are good about
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: doing that. Hats. People will put hats on individuals and
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: if they're going to have a viewing. But your sole
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: purpose here is I'll put it to you this way, knowing,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: and I don't want to put words into this precious
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: woman's mother's mouth. But would you rather her head be
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: shaved and us appropriately assess these insults to her head?
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: Or do you want to run the risk of having
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: an incomplete assessment? And this guy's back on the streets.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: You know, I know which one I'm going to pick,
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: and because I want I want every I want every
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: ounce of retribution that I can get if I'm a
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: parent here. And so when we shave the head, and
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: sometimes we'll do it selectively, we were very very careful though,
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: and the more because and these are hard and this
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: is one of the problems to run into. You'll see
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: like when you get a hammer strike, you'll actually have
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: an abrasion, Okay that you have to pay real close
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: attention to to see because it's so ghastly because you'll
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: have a laceration. Many times that occurs. So you've got
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: two things happening that top layer of skin is abraided
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: and you'll see the little margins of it because the
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: skin is rubbed because it's coming in contact with this
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: metal object. Then the skin will split. Okay, sometimes on
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: the skin you can see the pattern like a it'll
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: look like a quarter almost if it's a flush strike.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: Then depended upon the level of force, and I've seen
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: this happen. When you get below that layer of the
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: scalp and you get onto what's referred to as the
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: external table of skull, you'll see a plug of bone
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: day that's also shaped like a quarter, and it's depressed,
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: which means the bone actually sinks in to a criminal
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: vault at that point in time, and you know, impacts
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: the brain directly and it'll you know, many times the
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: bone will fragment and the little shards of bone will
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: go into the brain. That's incompatible with life. Not to mention,
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: you know, just a concussive event of this that leads
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: to death. The question is was he striking her with
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: a fist beforehand he had the hammer at the ready
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: and then used it, or was he holding the hammer
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: in a way that you couldn't really tell if it
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: was a hammer strike or not like if it's on
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: the one of the edges, for instance, I don't see
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: that happening, because even if you strike somebody with the
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: edge of a hammer, you're gonna have these kind of
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: linear marks that occur on the soft tissue either way.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: Either way, they were able to determine that she did
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: die as a result of blunt force trauma. And thankfully,
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: very very thankfully, Sean Go is no longer among the
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: land of the free. He's now been convicted and now
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: he's awaiting sentencing. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is Bodybacks.