Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 239: Kale Does Not Love You Back

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Ep. 239: Kale Does Not Love You Back · The MeatEater Podcast

0:08
Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,
0:13
Speaker 1: bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening Hunt podcast,
0:18
Speaker 1: you can't predict anything presented by on X. Hunt creators
0:22
Speaker 1: are the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download
0:26
Speaker 1: the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store,
0:29
Speaker 1: nor where you stand with on X. Okay, we're here
0:36
Speaker 1: with Dr Paul Saladino in the first and we'm to
0:38
Speaker 1: top about that. I get that right, You got it? Man? Um?
0:41
Speaker 1: Why why are we tell people what we're having in
0:44
Speaker 1: pillform right now? So my my hope was that I
0:48
Speaker 1: would get everybody a little bit buzzed on liver pills
0:50
Speaker 1: before we got started on this podcast. So these are
0:53
Speaker 1: desiccated organs. The first uh sampling, it's like a tasting,
0:58
Speaker 1: like you go to a wine bar, a beer house.
1:01
Speaker 1: You've got a sampling, a tasting. So I brought two
1:03
Speaker 1: different vintages today. We've got the bone marrow and liver pills.
1:06
Speaker 1: Steve is over here sniffing them, smelling mind eating them.
1:10
Speaker 1: I have twelve to eat, twelve to eat. So the
1:12
Speaker 1: first vintage is bone marrow and liver from grass fed,
1:15
Speaker 1: grass finished cattle raised in New Zealand on regenerative farms.
1:19
Speaker 1: And the second vintage is beef organs, which consists of heart, liver, kidney, spleen,
1:24
Speaker 1: and pancreas from similarly raised cattle in New Zealand. And
1:27
Speaker 1: these are super interesting for me because, um, a lot
1:31
Speaker 1: of people don't understand how valuable organs are. I think
1:34
Speaker 1: as a hunter, you guys probably get this. Or if
1:36
Speaker 1: you think about the way that indigenous people and hunter
1:40
Speaker 1: gatherers have eaten animals throughout antiquity, they eat them, nose,
1:44
Speaker 1: the tail, they eat the whole animal right, nothing is wasted,
1:48
Speaker 1: and a lot of the organs are sacred. They're regarded
1:50
Speaker 1: as sacred. This New War tribe in Africa. They're super tall,
1:53
Speaker 1: even the women are like above six ft. They think
1:56
Speaker 1: of liver as too sacred to be touched by human hands.
2:00
Speaker 1: But it's just regard. They've they've realized over generations that
2:02
Speaker 1: if they feed the organs specifically things like liver and
2:05
Speaker 1: spleen and pancreas and heart, their warriors get strong, the
2:09
Speaker 1: young people are fertile, they have healthy babies. It's just
2:12
Speaker 1: by trial and error they've realized, Hey, there are unique
2:14
Speaker 1: nutrients in these organs. And what's so interesting for me
2:17
Speaker 1: about this is the way that we become optimally healthy
2:21
Speaker 1: humans and how much of this we're missing in our diets.
2:23
Speaker 1: So I'm a doctor, I think about nutrition. I think
2:25
Speaker 1: about nutritional adequacy, vitamins, minerals, where we get them. And
2:29
Speaker 1: one of the most striking things that I've encountered in
2:31
Speaker 1: writing this book, the Carnivore Code, we'll talk about it today,
2:33
Speaker 1: is that, Hey, a lot of the nutrients that you
2:35
Speaker 1: find when you're eating animal meat and organs are pretty
2:38
Speaker 1: difficult to find elsewhere in our diets, which really speaks
2:42
Speaker 1: to this evolutionary program, this evolutionary blueprint that humans have
2:46
Speaker 1: to eat animals and in their entirety throughout our whole existence.
2:50
Speaker 1: And so one of the passioning projects that I developed
2:53
Speaker 1: was this company called Heart and Soil to make these
2:55
Speaker 1: descated organ supplements for people who can't access the organs
2:58
Speaker 1: or who don't want to eat the organs. Because if
3:01
Speaker 1: you've ever seen a pancreas, it looks like a little alien.
3:03
Speaker 1: I mean, you can eat it, but a lot of
3:05
Speaker 1: people won't do it. But I still want to be
3:06
Speaker 1: able to get people this good nutrition. It's like my
3:09
Speaker 1: sister's kids, niece and nephew, and my parents and my grandparents.
3:12
Speaker 1: They're probably not gonnaed a pancreas for a spleen, but
3:15
Speaker 1: they'll take these pills. And so everybody in this room
3:19
Speaker 1: is now getting a little bit buzzed on the unique
3:22
Speaker 1: nutrients found in these two rare vintages that I brought
3:24
Speaker 1: when I was When I was a little boy, and
3:27
Speaker 1: you got into an argument about vegetarianism, you'd be like,
3:31
Speaker 1: you can't be a vegetarian because you won't get BE
3:33
Speaker 1: twelve right or vegan or whatever. But then I read
3:36
Speaker 1: that you get enough B twelve off insect contamination in
3:39
Speaker 1: your produce, So like, what is not? But what is
3:43
Speaker 1: it that you need? Uh? I got a thousand questions? No,
3:50
Speaker 1: queen back, hold that question, okay, because I want yan
3:52
Speaker 1: you to to tell you about his special pills. All right, Oh, Steve,
3:56
Speaker 1: want me tell you about how I think it was
3:58
Speaker 1: our first born. We took the cent, love it and
4:05
Speaker 1: had it turned basically into a pill. But yeah, but
4:10
Speaker 1: it was like witchcraft and hate the pills. I didn't
4:13
Speaker 1: I didn't eat. It was kind of like witchcraft more
4:16
Speaker 1: than like health right, Like it was like spiritual metaphysical.
4:21
Speaker 1: It wasn't like good for your health. Well, I think
4:23
Speaker 1: it's kind of I know, I think it was the latter.
4:25
Speaker 1: It was meant to be good for your health. Yeah,
4:27
Speaker 1: it was more like metaphysical in nature. I think it's
4:31
Speaker 1: kind of both. I think that a lot of the
4:32
Speaker 1: stories around the organs came from observed health benefits. People think, oh,
4:37
Speaker 1: we eat the heart, it makes me strong, and that's
4:40
Speaker 1: interesting because there's extra coins. I'm key ten and heart.
4:43
Speaker 1: So I think the question you were going to ask
4:45
Speaker 1: was what are the unique nutrients and animal foods or
4:47
Speaker 1: what are they? What do you because I know about
4:50
Speaker 1: B twelve right best. Everybody knows that one, right, but
4:53
Speaker 1: the list is really really long. This is so fascinating.
4:55
Speaker 1: So one of the interesting ideas that I've come across
5:00
Speaker 1: in this this sort of this realm of carnivore and
5:03
Speaker 1: animal based diets is that if you look at plants
5:06
Speaker 1: and you look at what we can get nutritionally from plants,
5:09
Speaker 1: there are no nutrients and plants. And this is gonna
5:12
Speaker 1: sound crazy, but it's true. There are no nutrients and
5:14
Speaker 1: plants that we cannot get from animals if we eat them.
5:17
Speaker 1: Nose to tail, meaning if we eat yeah, but the
5:20
Speaker 1: reverse is not true. There are so many unique nutrients
5:24
Speaker 1: and animal foods eating nose to tail that you cannot
5:26
Speaker 1: get from plants. And BE twelve, which is a molecule
5:30
Speaker 1: called kobol amen, is just one of them. And it's
5:33
Speaker 1: really a myth that you can get enough BE twelve
5:35
Speaker 1: to have adequate methylation and all these other physiologic processes
5:38
Speaker 1: you need in your body from just animals on your produce.
5:41
Speaker 1: That doesn't happen. You really should eat animal foods, but
5:44
Speaker 1: the list is very long. You guys, sort of creatine creatine,
5:48
Speaker 1: and so it's a molecule that your body makes, but
5:50
Speaker 1: it only makes a small amount, and you get creatine
5:53
Speaker 1: and muscle, meat and liver and things like this, and
5:55
Speaker 1: then carnaentine, coaline, carnesceine, and serene toriine. I can talk
5:59
Speaker 1: about any of these, Vitamin K two. The list is
6:02
Speaker 1: a long. There's probably about nine to ten unique nutrients
6:05
Speaker 1: just that we know about that we need to be
6:08
Speaker 1: optimal humans, and there's medical studies on all of them
6:10
Speaker 1: showing this has this benefit, this has this benefit, and
6:13
Speaker 1: we only get them from eating animal organs and meat.
6:17
Speaker 1: So a question that will ask people is and this
6:19
Speaker 1: is just a question that a doctor would ask somebody
6:21
Speaker 1: because it's a nerdy question. Where do you get your
6:23
Speaker 1: ribe of flavan? Man? I don't know. I think it's
6:28
Speaker 1: been special k don't they advertise? Yeah, I was gonna
6:32
Speaker 1: say something Breakfast Cereals something. There's a breakfast cereal company
6:36
Speaker 1: that started to introduced Americans to the idea of rival flavor.
6:40
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but I accepted that
6:42
Speaker 1: I need it. Right, well, you definitely need it. Rabit
6:44
Speaker 1: flav is vitamin B two and if we get it
6:47
Speaker 1: in a synthetic form, it's two different molecules. This gets
6:51
Speaker 1: a little a little complex. I don't want to get
6:53
Speaker 1: too in the weeds here, but there are a lot
6:54
Speaker 1: of the molecules. A lot of these vitamins have like
6:56
Speaker 1: mirror images when we synthesize them, but in nature they
6:59
Speaker 1: only exist is one form. It kind of look. They're
7:01
Speaker 1: called a nanti umors, or these mirror images that look
7:03
Speaker 1: like your hands. You know, they're not the same image,
7:05
Speaker 1: but there there are a mirror image, but you can't
7:07
Speaker 1: overlay them right, So there's a they have what's called chirality.
7:10
Speaker 1: They're in antiums, and when you synthesize vitamins like riva
7:13
Speaker 1: flavor in the lab, you get both in antiumers, but
7:16
Speaker 1: in the natural world only one of them is occurring,
7:19
Speaker 1: so the riva flavor and you get in liver. Liver
7:21
Speaker 1: and heart are the main place that humans have gotten
7:23
Speaker 1: ribe of flavoran throughout our evolution, and it's a nutrient
7:25
Speaker 1: that's critical for humans to do a process called methylation,
7:29
Speaker 1: for our biochemistry to work right, for us to make
7:31
Speaker 1: sex hormones and your transmitters, and to have energy metabolism. Basically,
7:35
Speaker 1: to feel as good as possible and experience life as
7:38
Speaker 1: richly as we can, we need these little micro nutrients.
7:41
Speaker 1: And when you get the ribe of flavor made in
7:43
Speaker 1: the lab from special K, this other mirror image can
7:47
Speaker 1: block what the actual biological molecules supposed to do. So
7:50
Speaker 1: the takeaway here is that the real form of the
7:52
Speaker 1: vitamin quote unquote, real form that occurs in natural food
7:55
Speaker 1: is always better. It's a concept that's not too far
7:57
Speaker 1: from our intuition, but it's you know, corroborated by science.
8:02
Speaker 1: So yeah, you can get a little ribe of flavor
8:04
Speaker 1: or a little bit of full eight from your special
8:06
Speaker 1: k but the versions you find in real food, especially
8:10
Speaker 1: animal foods, are much more utilized and easily utilized and
8:14
Speaker 1: help us become better individuals. I mean, that's what's so
8:16
Speaker 1: fascinating to me as a doctor. How do we kick
8:18
Speaker 1: the most assess humans? How do we enjoy this life,
8:21
Speaker 1: these short eighty five years that we get on this planet.
8:24
Speaker 1: If you're if you're lucky, right, if you're lucky. Yeah.
8:27
Speaker 1: I start a new guy the other day and his
8:30
Speaker 1: dad all of a sudden died at seventy two. I'm like,
8:33
Speaker 1: I don't like here. I'm at the point where I
8:35
Speaker 1: don't like hearing that kind of stuff. How old are
8:36
Speaker 1: your parents? Well, my mom, my dad died of eighty.
8:39
Speaker 1: My mom's eight. You know, Okay, so your parents have
8:42
Speaker 1: gotten I mean, your dad lived eighty years, your mom
8:45
Speaker 1: has lived a good life. My parents are both seventy.
8:47
Speaker 1: And it's thinking you start to think about mortality when
8:50
Speaker 1: your parents get close to that that age. And I
8:52
Speaker 1: told you I was walking around a graveyard here in
8:54
Speaker 1: bos Montana last night. That's what I do when I
8:56
Speaker 1: come to new towns. Not all time, but I like
8:59
Speaker 1: thinking about that stuff up. And we were looking at
9:01
Speaker 1: grave sites from people from eighteen ninety and you know,
9:04
Speaker 1: even nineteen o six, and you think what happened? What
9:06
Speaker 1: was their life back then like? And mortality is clarifying.
9:09
Speaker 1: But they've sat around talking about how this place got
9:12
Speaker 1: too crowded and went to ship and you know, you think, wow,
9:19
Speaker 1: what was it like? But it also reminds you I'm
9:21
Speaker 1: gonna die one day. And I think it's a doctor
9:24
Speaker 1: who started out as somebody that just liked to be outside.
9:27
Speaker 1: I'm kind of straddling both worlds. I want to live
9:30
Speaker 1: as well as I can. And that's why I went
9:32
Speaker 1: to medical school was that I enjoyed doing things outside.
9:35
Speaker 1: I enjoyed hike in the Pacific Crest Trail. I threw
9:37
Speaker 1: hiked it when I was twenty one years old, and
9:39
Speaker 1: I've been, you know, like a casual mountaineer for a
9:42
Speaker 1: long time. I love backcountry skiing, and I thought, man,
9:44
Speaker 1: this is a beautiful life. I love being outdoors. How
9:48
Speaker 1: do I do this for as long as possible? I
9:50
Speaker 1: want to serve and ski and climb ounce for as
9:52
Speaker 1: long as possible. And that's why I think human health
9:54
Speaker 1: is fascinating. And I think that if we can understand
9:57
Speaker 1: how humans are really programmed to eat. We get to
9:59
Speaker 1: do the those things longer. You guys get to go
10:01
Speaker 1: on expeditions longer and hunt animals in a beautiful way,
10:05
Speaker 1: and you just get to have more fun in life
10:07
Speaker 1: when you get your ribe of flavor. Yeah. I remember
10:09
Speaker 1: reading about um hide hunters like commercial hunters on the
10:16
Speaker 1: Texas planes and how there's there's there's a reference to
10:21
Speaker 1: how they would just eat like the finer cuts on
10:24
Speaker 1: animals and they would get nutrient deficiencies and they had
10:28
Speaker 1: to learn um they had learned he had to eat
10:32
Speaker 1: all this stuff, had to eat the organs, and they
10:34
Speaker 1: would like put bile, they would put bile on meat
10:38
Speaker 1: and do all these things. Just eat as much stuff
10:40
Speaker 1: as they could, and they found that they would get
10:42
Speaker 1: better health than if they were just eating like just
10:45
Speaker 1: eating backstrap exactly like the tongues. And that happens today too.
10:50
Speaker 1: I mean we see that over and over and within
10:52
Speaker 1: the carnivore animal based community, you see that. I work
10:56
Speaker 1: with people who just eat the muscle meat because that's
10:59
Speaker 1: all we're really used to today, and they get full
11:01
Speaker 1: eight deficiency and you get all kinds of things that
11:03
Speaker 1: don't really go that well, but if he knows the tail,
11:05
Speaker 1: you feel really good, which is why a lot of
11:07
Speaker 1: times when people do things like the desiccated liver supplements
11:11
Speaker 1: or eat fresh liver, they get a little buzz. So
11:13
Speaker 1: any minute now the buzz is going to be kicking
11:15
Speaker 1: in for you guys. So you guys are probably pretty good,
11:19
Speaker 1: you're tuned in. But this is I think that what's
11:21
Speaker 1: so interesting is these trappers, these hide hunters, didn't understand
11:25
Speaker 1: what the Native Americans did, right, because the Native Americans
11:28
Speaker 1: knew that they ate these animals, these animal organs. They
11:31
Speaker 1: ate the animal fat, they ate the kidney fat, which
11:34
Speaker 1: we call the suett the perinetric fat. They ate the
11:36
Speaker 1: gall bladder. There's all these stories of kids, and you know,
11:39
Speaker 1: indigenous cultures using the gall bladder like salt because it's salty,
11:42
Speaker 1: and they'll squirt the bile on meat and stuff, and
11:44
Speaker 1: there's valuable nutrients throughout it. But it makes all of
11:46
Speaker 1: us kind of go d it's gross. And so I
11:49
Speaker 1: really think that a lot of the illness that we
11:52
Speaker 1: suffer today as humans, a lot of the chronic disease,
11:54
Speaker 1: a lot of the non optimal living that we do,
11:57
Speaker 1: it is because of these nutrient deficiencies. And so that's
11:59
Speaker 1: why it's cool to get to do this work, because
12:00
Speaker 1: it's so awesome to get an email back from somebody
12:03
Speaker 1: who's who says things like I have so much more energy,
12:07
Speaker 1: my libido is better, I lost weight, I can sleep now,
12:10
Speaker 1: or my autoimmune disease went away. When they make dietary changes,
12:13
Speaker 1: the first of which is probably including these organs in
12:15
Speaker 1: their diet. And we can talk about other dietary changes
12:18
Speaker 1: you might make to get that way. But that's what's
12:20
Speaker 1: really cool, and it's this sort of ancestral wisdom that's
12:22
Speaker 1: been lost. I I gotta hear my first question before
12:26
Speaker 1: we get into details, and no one I want to
12:28
Speaker 1: talk about your diet too. But here's my first question.
12:30
Speaker 1: Is there's a criticism of American society today that we
12:34
Speaker 1: don't agree on, that we no longer agree on the
12:37
Speaker 1: objective realities, right, that there's two versions of truth um
12:44
Speaker 1: or multiple versions of truth. When I think that we
12:46
Speaker 1: have this nostalgic attitude that once upon a time there
12:49
Speaker 1: was only like one version of truth, and I wonder
12:52
Speaker 1: is it infiltrated diet? Like I don't remember when I
12:56
Speaker 1: was a little kid, I don't remember there being like
12:58
Speaker 1: two versions of what healthy. What was healthy? I think
13:00
Speaker 1: everybody knew, like the food pyramid, and they're sort of like,
13:03
Speaker 1: I get it, I'm not gonna do it, but I
13:06
Speaker 1: accept that that's correct. But we've now entered into a
13:10
Speaker 1: spot where you can have a version of reality being
13:13
Speaker 1: that meats really bad for you, and it's healthy to
13:16
Speaker 1: be a vegetarian because meat kills you, and that's by
13:19
Speaker 1: some people accepted like, well, no, that's that's objectively true,
13:22
Speaker 1: that's categorically true. You might choose to eat meat because
13:25
Speaker 1: you don't have self control or you're a glutton or whatever,
13:29
Speaker 1: but we all know that that's right. And then you
13:31
Speaker 1: have another group of people being like, oh no, no no, no, no,
13:34
Speaker 1: fat and meat, it's an objective reality that it's good
13:38
Speaker 1: for you. You might not do that because you have
13:41
Speaker 1: a sugar addiction or you have a problem with animal ethics,
13:45
Speaker 1: but we all know that this is actually true. Like
13:47
Speaker 1: how do people pick? Like who's right? There's only one
13:51
Speaker 1: where you so so right, there there's one, but who's
13:54
Speaker 1: who's is the one? That's why I do what I do, man,
13:56
Speaker 1: That's why I do what I do. I think that
13:59
Speaker 1: truth is truth is what we're after. And I really
14:01
Speaker 1: love you bring this up because I think this is
14:03
Speaker 1: a little bit of an insidious notion that there are
14:04
Speaker 1: multiple versions of truth. There's only one version of truth,
14:07
Speaker 1: and either what I'm saying is right or what the
14:09
Speaker 1: plant based people are saying is right. And that's why
14:11
Speaker 1: I do what I do, because I believe with every
14:13
Speaker 1: fiber of my being that humans have been eating meat
14:15
Speaker 1: throughout our entire evolution. We can get into this and
14:18
Speaker 1: that it's essential for human health. And in the book
14:21
Speaker 1: and the Carnivore Code, I break down why have we
14:24
Speaker 1: been told that meat is not bad, not good for us? Right?
14:27
Speaker 1: I can tell you why it's not good for you? Well,
14:31
Speaker 1: can get like get what else it to? Elvis Presley
14:34
Speaker 1: died and they found a giant burger and his coling
14:36
Speaker 1: like you can't digest. But I always feel like why
14:41
Speaker 1: do I feel? I always wonder why I feel so
14:44
Speaker 1: good when you eat something that's so bad for you,
14:47
Speaker 1: Like I like, I don't even know that I'm dying,
14:49
Speaker 1: Like I feel like I'm great. You feel amazing. And
14:51
Speaker 1: I hear that all the time from people who email
14:53
Speaker 1: me at hard and Soil because you know you can
14:55
Speaker 1: email me there if you have questions. And people say,
14:57
Speaker 1: I feel so good when I eat liver, I get high,
14:59
Speaker 1: I get a little buzz, I I feel these nutrients.
15:01
Speaker 1: And conversely, there's a little bit there's a little bit
15:03
Speaker 1: of selection bias here in terms of who emails me
15:05
Speaker 1: with these stories. People email me and say, hey, doc,
15:08
Speaker 1: my my doctor recommended that I go on a plant
15:11
Speaker 1: based diet because X Y Z and I just feel
15:13
Speaker 1: like garbage. My energy is down and don't feel good.
15:15
Speaker 1: I'm gaining weight, And I go, yeah, it's because you're
15:17
Speaker 1: eating the junk. You're eating survival food. So that's why
15:21
Speaker 1: I do what I do is because I feel like
15:23
Speaker 1: there are objective truths that need to be understood, and
15:26
Speaker 1: so probably for the rest of my life, this will
15:28
Speaker 1: be my life's work, is helping people of all walks
15:31
Speaker 1: of life, of all vocations understand the science that I've seen.
15:36
Speaker 1: And I'll be debating vegans and plant based people forever, forever,
15:39
Speaker 1: trying to help people understand that what they're saying, in
15:41
Speaker 1: my opinion, is so badly mistaken and the reason you're misled.
15:45
Speaker 1: I suppose you understand this, but the reason a lot
15:46
Speaker 1: of people are mislead is because of epidemiology, and we
15:50
Speaker 1: can get into what that is and why the science
15:51
Speaker 1: is not all the same, but there's it's not being
15:54
Speaker 1: sold to us accurately. We're being told things that are
15:58
Speaker 1: based on studies that are servational, they're not actually interventional,
16:01
Speaker 1: real science, and it's very hard for someone that's not
16:04
Speaker 1: a medical doctor or a medical researcher to understand that.
16:07
Speaker 1: So we are being misled. And what's cool is that
16:10
Speaker 1: I think that people will eventually realize what you've realized.
16:14
Speaker 1: If you eat animal meat and organs from well raised animals,
16:16
Speaker 1: you are going to thrive. You're gonna feel good, your
16:19
Speaker 1: kids are gonna be healthy, you're gonna be fertile, you're
16:21
Speaker 1: gonna have a healthy baby. Your depression might get better.
16:24
Speaker 1: I've seen autoimmune disease get better. And you're gonna go,
16:26
Speaker 1: wait a minute, there's so much cognitive ausness here. How
16:28
Speaker 1: can this be bad for me? And I want to
16:30
Speaker 1: be the voice or one of the voices who says
16:32
Speaker 1: it's not bad for you, and that spark comes on
16:34
Speaker 1: in your brain and you go, of course, it's not
16:36
Speaker 1: bad for me. I'm being misled. This is bad information.
16:39
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily believe that there are evil people out
16:43
Speaker 1: there or that they're trying to do harm. I just
16:45
Speaker 1: think that people are not they're not thinking about it properly.
16:47
Speaker 1: In the plant based world, where did it come from?
16:49
Speaker 1: Like where, Like I don't even know what year it
16:52
Speaker 1: was or approximately the all of a sudden that because
16:54
Speaker 1: I grew up thinking, you know what, if I just
16:56
Speaker 1: a broccoli probably every day, all day, maybe an apple,
17:00
Speaker 1: I'd be like the ma is healthiest person in the world, right,
17:04
Speaker 1: Like because the food pyramid? Man? Was it just the
17:07
Speaker 1: food pyramid? That's the earliest thing I remember is you
17:09
Speaker 1: had to like fill in that little pyramid. I don't know.
17:12
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. I'm guessing. But where is
17:13
Speaker 1: this as a society did it? I think we know
17:16
Speaker 1: it because if you go back to its three generations,
17:19
Speaker 1: it wasn't that way, right, you go back to your
17:21
Speaker 1: parents parents, they understood that meat was valuable, and that
17:24
Speaker 1: meat was something that was more expensive because it was
17:27
Speaker 1: more valuable nutritionally. It's really only in the last seventy years,
17:31
Speaker 1: and you can trace it back to ansel keys in
17:33
Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties. There's a series of epidemiology studies that
17:36
Speaker 1: were done that began to vilify saturated fat, and I
17:41
Speaker 1: was just about to do that. So epidemiology is observational research.
17:44
Speaker 1: It's a survey. They're going to take a thousand or
17:47
Speaker 1: ten thousand people in hand them a survey that says,
17:49
Speaker 1: what did you eat for the last ten years, how
17:51
Speaker 1: much McDonald's, how many steaks, how many French fries, how
17:54
Speaker 1: many of these things? You know, how many things did
17:56
Speaker 1: you eat like this? And then they're gonna look at
17:58
Speaker 1: how healthy those people are. And in Western countries, in
18:02
Speaker 1: Western countries, that's a really important point because I'll contrast
18:04
Speaker 1: it with Eastern countries in a moment. But in Western countries,
18:07
Speaker 1: if you do that epidemiology today and like we've been
18:10
Speaker 1: doing it for the last fifty to sixty years, oftentimes
18:14
Speaker 1: you will see an association, a correlation between people eating
18:17
Speaker 1: red meat and adverse health outcomes. But we know, yeah,
18:23
Speaker 1: we know, correlation does not causation make We can't draw
18:27
Speaker 1: a causative inference from a correlation. And these epidemiology studies,
18:31
Speaker 1: these observational studies, were never meant to do that. They
18:34
Speaker 1: were meant to degenerate a hypothesis, a guess which you
18:38
Speaker 1: then test with interventional studies, And interventional studies with red
18:41
Speaker 1: meat have been done, they're just never talked about on
18:43
Speaker 1: the evening news. We'll get to those. They don't show
18:45
Speaker 1: any problems with meat, But the epidemiology studies show often
18:49
Speaker 1: not all the time, but often in Western countries with
18:51
Speaker 1: Western narratives, that meat is associated with bad outcomes. Now
18:57
Speaker 1: here's the question I have for you, guys. How many
18:59
Speaker 1: times have you you've been to a barbecue and seen
19:02
Speaker 1: someone only eat meat? They just eat a hamburger patty.
19:05
Speaker 1: They don't need anything else with it. There's no catchup,
19:06
Speaker 1: there's no bun, there's no mayonnaise, there's no French fries,
19:09
Speaker 1: there's no cold slaw, there's no potato salad. How many
19:11
Speaker 1: times you ever seen that happen? How many times have
19:13
Speaker 1: you ever seen someone walking to McDonald's and just get
19:16
Speaker 1: a hamburger patty five year old and bought him a
19:19
Speaker 1: hot dog and only gave him the hot dog. You
19:22
Speaker 1: might see that result, right, right, maybe, but he might
19:24
Speaker 1: eat the bun. He might you might wonder later like
19:27
Speaker 1: what happened to the bunks? He's just standing there at
19:29
Speaker 1: the hot I think at the height of atkins. I
19:31
Speaker 1: might have seen it once for a restaurant or someone
19:33
Speaker 1: literally just ate two two hamburger patties on that plate. Right,
19:37
Speaker 1: I've never seen it, but you get my point, right,
19:39
Speaker 1: People who eat meat generally we because we have been told,
19:44
Speaker 1: because you guys have heard this narrative. You just told me.
19:46
Speaker 1: We've been told a narrative throughout our whole life for
19:49
Speaker 1: the last sixty years that red meat is bad for you.
19:51
Speaker 1: So who eats red meat. It's people that are out
19:53
Speaker 1: there and they're ape hangers on the harley with tats
19:55
Speaker 1: and the Hell's Angels or the hot you know, wild hogs.
19:58
Speaker 1: They're doing other rebellious stuff. They're looking at this health
20:01
Speaker 1: advice and going, I don't care about health advice. I'm
20:03
Speaker 1: going to discard that health advice and every other piece
20:05
Speaker 1: of health advice there is. I'm not going to exercise,
20:08
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna get a colonoscope or a mammograham. I'm
20:10
Speaker 1: gonna smoke, I'm gonna ride this motorcycle. I'm not gonna
20:12
Speaker 1: get in the sun. I'm gonna eat French fries with
20:14
Speaker 1: my hamburgers, drink alcohol. And so this is the problem.
20:19
Speaker 1: You can't epidemiology studies cannot differentiate the meat from everything
20:24
Speaker 1: that gets eaten with the meat. And how often do
20:26
Speaker 1: things get eaten with the meat that might also be
20:27
Speaker 1: causing problems. And we can get into this, and I
20:29
Speaker 1: think that the real the real problem, and this will
20:32
Speaker 1: be interesting free listeners here. The real problem is not
20:34
Speaker 1: the meat. It's not the liver, it's not the hamburgers.
20:37
Speaker 1: The real problem is the processed food. And the reason
20:40
Speaker 1: the processed food is bad is because of process vegetable oils.
20:43
Speaker 1: And we can get into that when the time has come.
20:45
Speaker 1: But fast is vegged boils and little leic acid, like
20:47
Speaker 1: this is the real thing driving problems. And if you
20:50
Speaker 1: look at meat, it is so often eaten with vegetable oils,
20:54
Speaker 1: and so many processed foods have these vegetable oils and
20:56
Speaker 1: the linoleic acid, which is a complex word in there.
20:59
Speaker 1: So that's a alto the rabbit hole we have to
21:00
Speaker 1: go down. But the point is people eat a lot
21:03
Speaker 1: of junk food. They had a lot of sugar, they
21:04
Speaker 1: eat a lot of bread, need a lot of alcohol
21:06
Speaker 1: and cigarettes with meat, and epidemiology can't differentiate. But every
21:10
Speaker 1: time you or I or anyone, here's on the news
21:12
Speaker 1: red meat is associated with X. That word is associated.
21:18
Speaker 1: You will never hear on the news red meat causes
21:21
Speaker 1: because if you actually look at the interventional studies, the
21:24
Speaker 1: studies where they actually go to a laboratory or they
21:26
Speaker 1: take people and they do they do an interventional trial.
21:28
Speaker 1: They'll take a hundred people and they're saying, okay, this
21:31
Speaker 1: study has actually been done and I referenced it in
21:32
Speaker 1: the book. They said, okay, we want you to remove
21:35
Speaker 1: we want you to remove two fifty calories from your
21:38
Speaker 1: diet of carbohydrates, and we're gonna have you put in
21:40
Speaker 1: eight ounces of red meat per day. And they follow
21:42
Speaker 1: those people with the control groups. They have two groups.
21:45
Speaker 1: One group has eight ounces of red meat half a pound,
21:47
Speaker 1: pretty substantial amount of red meat in their diet extra
21:50
Speaker 1: per day. The other group has diet as usual and
21:52
Speaker 1: they follow them for eight, six, ten weeks and they
21:55
Speaker 1: look at the end of the study, the group with
21:58
Speaker 1: more red meat is better. They have lower inflammatory markers,
22:02
Speaker 1: lower inflammatory market. I'm getting the buzzs. I can't tell
22:04
Speaker 1: if it's from the liver pills or because of what
22:06
Speaker 1: you're telling because you're so excited about meat. Well, many
22:11
Speaker 1: things given me a buzz and you haven't even gotten
22:13
Speaker 1: into it yet. But um, I recently switched and started cooking.
22:17
Speaker 1: When I fry fish, I fry it and be fat,
22:22
Speaker 1: don't I switched. And here's the thing. Every time I
22:26
Speaker 1: fired that thing up, I feel guilty, but I also
22:28
Speaker 1: feel like, but I just want this. I like it
22:30
Speaker 1: better and it's better. But I feel like something the
22:33
Speaker 1: back of my heads tell me I'm being bad, and
22:35
Speaker 1: I'm always doing like what I think it makes sense.
22:37
Speaker 1: It's like, there's what I think, like as a human
22:39
Speaker 1: being who studies sort of human history, world history, whatever,
22:42
Speaker 1: like I do things that I think makes sense, right,
22:45
Speaker 1: I can just see it, But then I'm always in
22:48
Speaker 1: the back of my head is like that someone told
22:51
Speaker 1: me that it's bad, but it goes against what my
22:53
Speaker 1: general tendency would be. Like if I could take an
22:55
Speaker 1: animal and it has fat on it and nothing's just
22:58
Speaker 1: been out like feeding on grass, it has fat, and
23:00
Speaker 1: I make an oil from that, It's like, I'm like,
23:03
Speaker 1: it's hard for me to picture that. That's worse for
23:07
Speaker 1: me than some ship a chemist made, and it's it's
23:09
Speaker 1: just hard for me to get there. But I'm like,
23:11
Speaker 1: but I have to accept that it's true, because I've
23:13
Speaker 1: been told kind of exactly. And so before nineteen eleven,
23:17
Speaker 1: there was no such thing as vegetable oil. In fact,
23:19
Speaker 1: before eighteen sixty five, So in eighteen sixty five, cotton
23:23
Speaker 1: seed oil was made from cotton seeds. These are not food.
23:27
Speaker 1: Nobody eats cotton seeds. In nineteen eleven, Crisco was founded
23:30
Speaker 1: and they started making vegetable oil. And ever since, between
23:33
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty five and nineteen eleven, human health got a
23:36
Speaker 1: little bit worse. But between nineteen eleven and now we've
23:38
Speaker 1: just absolutely we've tanked. If you look at the rates
23:41
Speaker 1: of diabetes, if you look at the rates of chronic disease,
23:43
Speaker 1: they are skyrocketing in the last hundred years, and they're
23:47
Speaker 1: really going up since the nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties.
23:50
Speaker 1: And so vegetable oil was not even a thing. It
23:53
Speaker 1: didn't even exist. Our ancestors, our parents and grandparents really
23:56
Speaker 1: are great grandparents. And like the early eighteen hundreds, all
23:59
Speaker 1: those people who died and they were in that cemetery
24:01
Speaker 1: last night that I saw who died in eighteen eighty,
24:03
Speaker 1: they were not eating vegetable oil. It didn't even exist.
24:05
Speaker 1: They were eating tallow and lard, and the pigs that
24:08
Speaker 1: were making that large we're not fed on corn and soy.
24:10
Speaker 1: They were just fed on you know, things pigs are
24:12
Speaker 1: supposed to eat, but the talents, grasshoppers and carrots, and
24:16
Speaker 1: you know, they were just doing things wild hogs are
24:18
Speaker 1: supposed to eat. And those ancestral animal fats are what
24:22
Speaker 1: are treasured in indigenous cultures. And that's what we see
24:25
Speaker 1: over and over that there was really in the medical literature.
24:29
Speaker 1: There was really no such thing as a heart attack
24:32
Speaker 1: until the realties early nineteen ten, that type of region,
24:37
Speaker 1: and we didn't even think about heart attacks and as
24:38
Speaker 1: American people until the nineteen fifties when Eisenhower, I believe,
24:41
Speaker 1: had his heart attack. So it's just been it's a
24:43
Speaker 1: new invention. It didn't even happen when we were eating
24:46
Speaker 1: animal fats. But people used to in the old days,
24:48
Speaker 1: people like when I was even like my grandparents, you
24:52
Speaker 1: just people used to say that he died of old age.
24:55
Speaker 1: But I think now we just putting names to it.
24:57
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go back to sameing people died of old age. Well, people,
25:00
Speaker 1: no one dies old agian more. Now they die from
25:02
Speaker 1: something very specific that was like diagnosed, right, but you
25:05
Speaker 1: just bucket at all as being Yeah, so I don't know,
25:08
Speaker 1: but I don't know. If people were dying in heart attacks,
25:10
Speaker 1: they're just dying. They get old and died and no
25:12
Speaker 1: one knew why they died. Well, I think that what
25:14
Speaker 1: what we knew of medicine then was different. But even
25:16
Speaker 1: in the early nine hundreds, there was really no no
25:19
Speaker 1: heart attack in the medical literature. People didn't like go
25:21
Speaker 1: and say, oh my god, I have so much pain
25:22
Speaker 1: in my chest. You know, people didn't have that. They
25:24
Speaker 1: would die in ammonia or infections or things like that.
25:27
Speaker 1: But heart attacks are I mean, we we could tell
25:29
Speaker 1: when the heart arteries are blocked, or you could tell
25:32
Speaker 1: if if somebody has like this heart attack and they
25:34
Speaker 1: have this pain in their chest. It just wasn't even
25:35
Speaker 1: something that we recorded until then. And even in the
25:38
Speaker 1: early thirties it was rare. As we were getting more
25:41
Speaker 1: and more medical knowledge and getting a sense of the
25:43
Speaker 1: heart and how it worked, and then over time it
25:45
Speaker 1: just got to be more and more common. And so
25:47
Speaker 1: you're absolutely right, Steve. Vegetable oil is completely synthetic and
25:51
Speaker 1: something humans would have never eaten, and the amount of
25:55
Speaker 1: this fatty acid in there, literally like acid is really
25:57
Speaker 1: giving our bodies this evolutionarily inconsistent, ignally causing massive problems.
26:01
Speaker 1: Not to mention that because of the molecular structure this oil,
26:04
Speaker 1: it oxidizes, it becomes rancid very quickly, and in order
26:07
Speaker 1: for us to eat it and not notice that and
26:09
Speaker 1: not just spit it out because it tastes like garbage,
26:11
Speaker 1: it has to be bleached and deodorized. But you're right,
26:14
Speaker 1: it's made in a lab. If you look at the
26:15
Speaker 1: way vegetable oil is made, there's nothing there's nothing natural.
26:18
Speaker 1: There's nothing, you know, even that that our answers could
26:22
Speaker 1: have ever done with that. Our answers could have never
26:23
Speaker 1: ground a cotton seed or a rape seed, or you know,
26:27
Speaker 1: a soybean into oil. They could have never done these things. Yeah,
26:31
Speaker 1: I was just gonna ask. Yeah, olive oil is different.
26:35
Speaker 1: So when I think about oils, I think about and
26:37
Speaker 1: again I don't want to get too technical, but I
26:39
Speaker 1: think about the linoleic acid content in that oil. Linoleic
26:42
Speaker 1: acid is an omega six polyon saturated fat, and olive
26:45
Speaker 1: oil is about ten lintilic acid and it's mostly mono
26:48
Speaker 1: one saturated fat. Which is oleic acid, which is actually
26:51
Speaker 1: a fat that our body makes, is an eighteen carbon
26:54
Speaker 1: monoe saturated fat called oleic acid. We don't make linoleic
26:57
Speaker 1: acid in the human body. We need a small amount,
26:59
Speaker 1: but we store extra, which means when you're eating foods
27:02
Speaker 1: that are drenched and vegetable oil, you're storing and storing
27:05
Speaker 1: and storing it, and that leads to major problems. So
27:07
Speaker 1: olive oil is isn't isn't much better oil to eat.
27:11
Speaker 1: I think that I'm with Steve. I only eat tallow.
27:13
Speaker 1: I want to eat animal fats because that's going to
27:15
Speaker 1: have more of the nutrients. But olive oil is probably
27:17
Speaker 1: even better than vegetable oil. But if you're gonna cook
27:19
Speaker 1: in an oil, you gotta be a little careful. You
27:20
Speaker 1: don't want to eat it too much. But this is
27:23
Speaker 1: the point that a lot of the foods that were
27:24
Speaker 1: told are healthy for us are completely contrived. I mean,
27:28
Speaker 1: kale has the best publicist in the whole world. When
27:30
Speaker 1: did we start thinking that broccoli and kale were healthy?
27:33
Speaker 1: So I just want to go back and complete. I
27:36
Speaker 1: want to go back and completely laughing as we got
27:39
Speaker 1: like I got like a kale pass you wouldn't begin
27:41
Speaker 1: to comprehend in my garden and um, and we were
27:45
Speaker 1: talking about how kale like growing up whatever, you didn't
27:49
Speaker 1: pay attention to it. Well, holy ship, people are high
27:52
Speaker 1: on kale. People like kale. It's kind of good publicist, man.
27:54
Speaker 1: But it doesn't love you back. And we can talk
27:56
Speaker 1: about why. But you were saying something earlier about broccoli,
28:01
Speaker 1: and that narrative is what's been told to all of us.
28:03
Speaker 1: And so there's both the unhealthy user bias, which is
28:06
Speaker 1: all the people who are eating red meat and all
28:08
Speaker 1: this other bad stuff and all the people who are
28:10
Speaker 1: eating vegetables are doing all the healthy stuff. And so
28:13
Speaker 1: you see it over and over in Western cultures. But
28:15
Speaker 1: if you if you look at epidemiology done in Asia,
28:19
Speaker 1: and there's two studies in the book I mentioned with
28:21
Speaker 1: over probably close to three thousand people between both studies.
28:24
Speaker 1: If you look in Asia, the men who eat the
28:27
Speaker 1: most red meat have the lowest rates of heart disease
28:30
Speaker 1: and the women who eat the most red meat have
28:31
Speaker 1: the lowest rates of cancer. Is red meat has read
28:35
Speaker 1: meat good for Asians is good, you know, and and
28:38
Speaker 1: bad for Westerners. No, the narrative is completely different. The
28:41
Speaker 1: narrative because in Asia, red meat is associated with affluence.
28:46
Speaker 1: Was I was thinking this might be That's where it
28:48
Speaker 1: might red meat is affluence, so he eats red meat.
28:51
Speaker 1: The people that are affluent, the people that are gonna
28:53
Speaker 1: actually think about health behaviors, the people that have a
28:55
Speaker 1: higher socio economic status, which allows more care to doctors,
28:58
Speaker 1: which is going to give better health outcomes. So that's
29:01
Speaker 1: the huge thing that we're seeing with epidemiology. It's telling
29:03
Speaker 1: us about a cultural narrative. We can generate a hypothesis
29:06
Speaker 1: and we have to test it, and those tests have
29:09
Speaker 1: been done, but they don't get on the news. And
29:11
Speaker 1: the tests clearly show red meat and organs are not
29:15
Speaker 1: bad for humans, and why would they be. We've been
29:17
Speaker 1: eating them for millions of years. Can you touch on
29:19
Speaker 1: something real quick? I mean you made the point great
29:21
Speaker 1: by wat double background on it where you're talking about
29:25
Speaker 1: the correlation causation thing. Um, I read a great explanation
29:32
Speaker 1: this once for some group was putting out how pet
29:36
Speaker 1: owners live longer, insinuating that, right, go get a pet
29:41
Speaker 1: and you'll live longer. Remember reading like a sort of
29:43
Speaker 1: deconstruction of what that meant about. Well, let's take a
29:45
Speaker 1: look at pet owners in America versus non pet owners
29:49
Speaker 1: in America. There are a lot of things that are
29:52
Speaker 1: sort of in the package of pet owners that they
29:56
Speaker 1: tend to have a home and some amount of expendable
30:00
Speaker 1: income and on and on and on and so yes,
30:02
Speaker 1: I would believe that that's true. I don't think it's
30:05
Speaker 1: owning the pet that is making you live longer. Like,
30:08
Speaker 1: how do you how do you describe that? Like that
30:13
Speaker 1: problem that people run into. There's an amazing website called
30:16
Speaker 1: Spurious Correlations dot com that's this very well, that's what
30:19
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get at. Spurious correlations. Spurious correlations, And
30:22
Speaker 1: I have a graphic, a couple of graphics of this
30:24
Speaker 1: in the book. And you can see this correlation between
30:27
Speaker 1: the divorce rate and Maine and the per capita margarine consumption,
30:31
Speaker 1: and they're very highly correlated. They're extremely highly correlated. Absolutely,
30:35
Speaker 1: it's in the book. Yeah. The idea with maine and
30:38
Speaker 1: and the margarine is they're highly correlated. But are we
30:40
Speaker 1: thinking that if people eat less margine, they're gonna get
30:42
Speaker 1: divorced less? No, it makes no sense. It's just there
30:44
Speaker 1: are things that happen in the world that are correlated
30:47
Speaker 1: that have no actual cause of relationship. I mean, the
30:49
Speaker 1: most hilarious one that's always quoted is the number of
30:52
Speaker 1: movies Nicholas Cage appears in is highly correlated with, Like
30:55
Speaker 1: I think it's something morbid like death, hangings by suicide
30:58
Speaker 1: or something like that. And so you can see it.
31:00
Speaker 1: There's these charts are in that website, so you can
31:02
Speaker 1: and people would say, okay, nicknas Cage movies are causing people.
31:05
Speaker 1: So a lot of people, a lot of people kill themselves. Right,
31:09
Speaker 1: it's a highly correlated fact, but it doesn't mean that
31:11
Speaker 1: they cause the same thing. You have to really break
31:13
Speaker 1: it down. You generate a hypothesis and then you test it.
31:16
Speaker 1: And when you really get to the nitty gritty and
31:18
Speaker 1: you do the test, red meat is not harmful to humans.
31:21
Speaker 1: But we never hear about that, And why would it be?
31:23
Speaker 1: Why would a food And this is the kind of
31:25
Speaker 1: this is the way that I think about this, and
31:26
Speaker 1: I think you guys get this because you think about
31:28
Speaker 1: it the same way. Why would something that has made
31:31
Speaker 1: up the majority of the human diet that is crucial,
31:34
Speaker 1: that caused all these unique nutrients that we were talking
31:36
Speaker 1: about about the beginning of the show. I mean like,
31:38
Speaker 1: you can't get beat twelve without eating meat. You can't
31:41
Speaker 1: get colline and any significant amount without eating meat. You
31:44
Speaker 1: can't be a an optimally functioning human without eating meat.
31:48
Speaker 1: Why would it be bad for us? There's an amazing
31:51
Speaker 1: set of studies where they gave vegetarians creatine. So creatine
31:54
Speaker 1: is this muscle. It's a muscle derived molecule. It's a
31:57
Speaker 1: molecule we find in the muscle in the brain that
31:59
Speaker 1: holds onto a phosphate groups so it can donate. It's
32:01
Speaker 1: a t P which is the energy currency of the body.
32:04
Speaker 1: So we needed to think and run neurons and flex
32:06
Speaker 1: muscles and things like this. When they give extra creatine
32:10
Speaker 1: to vegetarians, they get smarter, They do better on memory
32:13
Speaker 1: and recall tasks and court card sorting tasks. They get
32:17
Speaker 1: smarter because they're creating deficient in their vegan and vegetarian diet.
32:22
Speaker 1: Why would a food that provides us with all of
32:24
Speaker 1: these unique nutrients be bad for us. This makes no sense,
32:28
Speaker 1: and it begins to kind of crystallize when you think
32:30
Speaker 1: about epidemiology. That's why we've been so misled, you know,
32:34
Speaker 1: I think part of where it comes from you'll you'll
32:37
Speaker 1: know is better than I do. But unexplained with using
32:42
Speaker 1: a different example. Um, there's a group called the Wildlife
32:46
Speaker 1: Conservation Society, okay, and they've always been opposed to UM,
32:52
Speaker 1: wildlife trafficking Okay, So particularly trafficking and endangered species have
32:55
Speaker 1: always resisted on a conservation standpoint. They've opposed you know,
33:00
Speaker 1: markets that sell like illicit wildlife materials, okay, tiger hides,
33:03
Speaker 1: you know whatever, panda bear clause. What have you um?
33:08
Speaker 1: When COVID hit, they took a new tact where they're like,
33:14
Speaker 1: see wildlife, we told you wildlife markets are bad. It
33:19
Speaker 1: gave us COVID, but it was like, I know that
33:22
Speaker 1: you believe wildlife markets are bad, but you've always said
33:25
Speaker 1: wildlife markets are bad because it encourages illicit trade and
33:28
Speaker 1: endangered species. You could point out to me that here's
33:32
Speaker 1: another reason, but you can't have it be that the
33:34
Speaker 1: whole reason switched and now we should hate wildlife markets
33:37
Speaker 1: because what you really want is you want wildlife markets
33:41
Speaker 1: to go away because you're trying to protect endangered species.
33:44
Speaker 1: You're now being opportunistic by attaching your argument to COVID transmission.
33:50
Speaker 1: And I think that a big Like much of the
33:53
Speaker 1: anti I think much of the anti meat thing is
33:56
Speaker 1: they're saying, I don't want people to be mean to animals.
33:59
Speaker 1: I don't want that would be animal exploitation. Um, that's
34:02
Speaker 1: only gonna fly with so many people. My message will
34:07
Speaker 1: resonate with far more people if I could make a
34:11
Speaker 1: health thing. And I think that's like a huge part
34:14
Speaker 1: of this. It's a it's a very big part of it.
34:17
Speaker 1: And I think that a lot of people in the
34:19
Speaker 1: plant based space, I believe are well intentioned. I just
34:22
Speaker 1: think that they're not thinking about the studies properly, and
34:25
Speaker 1: if you ask them, a lot of them do believe
34:27
Speaker 1: morally that the consumption of animals is not a good thing.
34:30
Speaker 1: And those are sticky arguments to get into with people.
34:34
Speaker 1: I think that I try because I yeah, because I've hunted.
34:38
Speaker 1: And I'll just state at a high level that if
34:41
Speaker 1: you look at the regenerative agriculture space, which is grass feeding,
34:44
Speaker 1: grass finishing of cows, and regenerative you know, rotational grazing,
34:48
Speaker 1: that's essentially the way that bison and other ruminants have
34:50
Speaker 1: always lived on the plains, and that that is carbon negative,
34:52
Speaker 1: meaning it's sequesters more carbon into the soil than those
34:55
Speaker 1: animals produce, and that's been the main that's been one
34:57
Speaker 1: argument is sort of the the environmental argument. So to
34:59
Speaker 1: say that owls are killing the planet is completely false
35:02
Speaker 1: because they're not. It's just how they manufacture cow me
35:05
Speaker 1: these days. In some sense, yes, but it's very it's
35:08
Speaker 1: a deep rabbit hole because that also is very misleading
35:12
Speaker 1: as well. And there's been conflation of data from the
35:15
Speaker 1: f A O versus the e p A, And in
35:16
Speaker 1: my book, I have a graphic of e p A
35:18
Speaker 1: data showing that if you look at tail pipes and
35:20
Speaker 1: tailpipe quote unquote, meaning if you look at the amount
35:23
Speaker 1: of methane emissions in carbon dioxide equivalence, those are two
35:27
Speaker 1: different molecules that if you look at the amount of
35:29
Speaker 1: methane and carbon dioxide equivalence that comes out of a
35:31
Speaker 1: cow versus what comes out of a tail pipe in
35:33
Speaker 1: the United States, there's of a car. Those are essentially
35:37
Speaker 1: tailpipe to tailpipe. There is no comparison, no comparison cars
35:41
Speaker 1: and trucks and transportation is of the U S greenhouse
35:45
Speaker 1: gas emissions. In two thousand sixteen, when this ep A
35:47
Speaker 1: data came out and ruminants are one point nine percent,
35:50
Speaker 1: and that includes even the k fos, the clustered animal
35:52
Speaker 1: feeding operations. But I agree with you, you're talking about
35:55
Speaker 1: one one point nine percent. Now, this is u S
35:58
Speaker 1: data from the e p A and its tailpipe tailpipe.
36:01
Speaker 1: What's so misleading is people will show data and plant
36:03
Speaker 1: based circles with from the f a O. And the
36:05
Speaker 1: f a O did a survey and they looked at
36:07
Speaker 1: you worldwide data and they took life cycle analysis of
36:10
Speaker 1: a cow and compared it to tailpipe emissions of a car.
36:13
Speaker 1: Lifecycle analysis means how many carbon dioxide equivalents do we
36:17
Speaker 1: do we use up or do we put in the
36:18
Speaker 1: atmosphere in the whole life cycle of the cow. Well,
36:20
Speaker 1: if we have to put them on a truck and
36:21
Speaker 1: move them somewhere, what about the amount of carbon it
36:24
Speaker 1: takes to run the factory that has to slaughter them.
36:26
Speaker 1: What about the carbon it takes to run the store
36:28
Speaker 1: that sells it to you. You know, that's the life
36:30
Speaker 1: cycle of a cow in terms of carbon dioxide equivalents,
36:33
Speaker 1: and they're comparing that to what comes out of the
36:35
Speaker 1: tailpipe of a car. No one's ever done a life
36:38
Speaker 1: cycle analysis. Oh well, well, they've they've never they've done that,
36:42
Speaker 1: but they've never done lifecycle analysis of what comes out
36:44
Speaker 1: of the end of your car. They've never done lifecycle
36:47
Speaker 1: analysis of petroleum and transportation. So nobody knows. And this
36:51
Speaker 1: is what's so crazy. And I really think that the
36:53
Speaker 1: transportation industries are protecting themselves because they are hugely contributing
36:57
Speaker 1: to this in a big way. You know, if you've
37:00
Speaker 1: how much carbon dioxide equivalent or how much I mean,
37:03
Speaker 1: they're sitting there going it's not us, it's the cows,
37:06
Speaker 1: exactly exactly. And nobody's ever looked at the life cycle
37:09
Speaker 1: of a plane or a train or a car drag
37:12
Speaker 1: and all that metal out of the ground making roads.
37:16
Speaker 1: You know how much it costs to maintain the car,
37:19
Speaker 1: how much it cost to do the part. It's how
37:20
Speaker 1: much it costs over the life cycle of the exactly right.
37:24
Speaker 1: So all we come that nobody's done that. All we
37:27
Speaker 1: can look at is tailpipe to tailpipe. And any PhD
37:30
Speaker 1: students sitting out there looking for a dissertation, you're not
37:32
Speaker 1: gonna get funding. Don't ask the auto industruper funding. Nobody's
37:37
Speaker 1: gonna fund that, you know, because they don't want you
37:40
Speaker 1: to know, so I'd be curious to hear from you
37:43
Speaker 1: guys about your experiences with hunting. But I've haunted a
37:46
Speaker 1: small amount, but I've found it very spiritual, and I
37:49
Speaker 1: don't mean that to sound flipping. So I've haunted deer
37:52
Speaker 1: three seasons now with my bow, and I've gotten a
37:54
Speaker 1: deer twice, and both times that I've killed a deer
37:58
Speaker 1: with my bow, it's been one of the most memorable
38:00
Speaker 1: experiences my life. And the first thing I think of is,
38:03
Speaker 1: holy sh it, I better live a good life because
38:06
Speaker 1: this is a responsibility. This dear gave itself to me.
38:08
Speaker 1: This is an incredibly, incredibly privileged position that I am
38:13
Speaker 1: in to eat the most hutritious food on the planet.
38:15
Speaker 1: And this is a this is a requirement. This is
38:18
Speaker 1: an ask from however you think about the universe and
38:20
Speaker 1: God and the spirituality in our place and all of it.
38:23
Speaker 1: This is this is sort of life asking me to
38:25
Speaker 1: be a good person. What I've realized from the work
38:28
Speaker 1: I read this one the Tom Brown's book. You read
38:30
Speaker 1: The Tracker Tom Brown, You read that, yeah, grandfather, and
38:34
Speaker 1: point in that book says, in order for something to live,
38:36
Speaker 1: something else must die. And it's so true. You know
38:39
Speaker 1: that the lion on the planes doesn't feel bad about
38:41
Speaker 1: killing the antelope. It's what it must do to live.
38:43
Speaker 1: And it's part of the cycle of life. We're all
38:45
Speaker 1: gonna die. I'm gonna be food for worms one day.
38:47
Speaker 1: And if I'm out hiking it's on bobcat or cougar
38:50
Speaker 1: decides to try and take me, I'm gonna fight. But
38:52
Speaker 1: you know, maybe I'm part of the circle of life too,
38:54
Speaker 1: and I'm going to accept that. And so it's the
38:55
Speaker 1: it's the human burden. The human burden is um is
39:01
Speaker 1: that like no other species has any remorse, any even
39:07
Speaker 1: any even compassion for suffering. It's just amazingly and would
39:13
Speaker 1: tell you otherwise to watch predators kill ship man, dude,
39:19
Speaker 1: it just they just don't. I'm not criticizing them. I mean,
39:23
Speaker 1: God bless him, but um, it's not that they're not
39:26
Speaker 1: like I'm going to go in there and make a good,
39:28
Speaker 1: clean kill. You know, it's just not on their mind, man.
39:31
Speaker 1: And it's an interesting thing to think about, but that's
39:34
Speaker 1: the way I imagine it. And so when people, I think,
39:37
Speaker 1: if someone wants to want chooses not to the animals
39:40
Speaker 1: because they don't want to cause suffering. I think that's
39:43
Speaker 1: your choice. You know, that's your moral choice, and you
39:46
Speaker 1: have to be careful about how it's going to affect
39:47
Speaker 1: your own health. And will you come hunting with me
39:49
Speaker 1: or somebody who has more experienced with me and see
39:51
Speaker 1: what it's about and see what the responsibility is like
39:53
Speaker 1: and realize that this is how we do what we
39:56
Speaker 1: do on this earth. I mean, we kind of talked
39:57
Speaker 1: about this at the beginning of the podcast. I what's
40:01
Speaker 1: what I am so passionate about is helping as many
40:03
Speaker 1: people as possible live well, live as fully as possible
40:06
Speaker 1: by getting getting the nutrients into them that are lost,
40:10
Speaker 1: these nose to tail nutrients with hard and soil, and
40:13
Speaker 1: this eating animals knows to tail, understanding that animal foods
40:15
Speaker 1: have been incorrectly vilified. In order for me to do
40:18
Speaker 1: my work in this short life as well as possible,
40:21
Speaker 1: I need to be nourished. I have to have nutrients.
40:23
Speaker 1: So in order for me to carry out the mission
40:26
Speaker 1: that I think is most important, like my responsibility is
40:29
Speaker 1: to nourish this body. And I don't drink alcohol for
40:31
Speaker 1: a lot of the same reasons. I just I want
40:32
Speaker 1: to be a healthy individual. I can do something good. Okay, Yeah,
40:36
Speaker 1: but I think that that's what we do, and we
40:38
Speaker 1: need to nourish ourselves to do the work that we're
40:39
Speaker 1: gonna do, and the nourishment has to come from animals.
40:42
Speaker 1: And I don't think that we should feel bad about that.
40:44
Speaker 1: That's an interesting point you bring up. And I guess
40:47
Speaker 1: I had felt that a little bit but hadn't articulated it.
40:50
Speaker 1: And we had a um the founder of a Black
40:54
Speaker 1: Rifle coffee company was on the show and it was when, um,
40:59
Speaker 1: it was early in the pandemic, and he said something
41:02
Speaker 1: interesting to me where he was talking about, um, everybody
41:06
Speaker 1: was stressed out right, like everybody's stressed out, and we're
41:08
Speaker 1: kind of like everybody's like really analyzing their obligations and
41:11
Speaker 1: and you know, you're like sort of triaging all the
41:15
Speaker 1: things in your life. Because it was a few months ago.
41:18
Speaker 1: Seems like a million years ago now, but like a
41:19
Speaker 1: few months ago, everybody was kind of like, holy shit.
41:22
Speaker 1: And he had made this point of like did he
41:24
Speaker 1: he views his obligations and these concentric circles to build
41:29
Speaker 1: out from him so and and he has this this
41:33
Speaker 1: this view of it that I thought sounded selfish, but
41:37
Speaker 1: once he explained it. It wasn't. He's, like I said,
41:39
Speaker 1: at the center of the concentric circle, wrapped around that
41:44
Speaker 1: is my family, you know. And he said, for me,
41:46
Speaker 1: wrapped around that is my company, the people that rely
41:50
Speaker 1: on this company to living. He and he went on
41:53
Speaker 1: to say that like that's where I take care. I
41:56
Speaker 1: have to take care of the center, because if I
41:59
Speaker 1: don't take care of the center r then the concentric
42:02
Speaker 1: circles out from that aren't in a position to be
42:05
Speaker 1: properly serviced. And it was like interesting to hear someone
42:09
Speaker 1: put it, because, um, the obligation you have to be
42:14
Speaker 1: like with it, to be present, to be healthy, to
42:18
Speaker 1: be like mentally clean, to not be hungover every morning. Right,
42:22
Speaker 1: It's like it's not just you like looking out for yourself.
42:26
Speaker 1: You can imagine it as a way that you're protecting
42:29
Speaker 1: those things that are wrapped around you, because there has
42:32
Speaker 1: to be that like strong core and center. If you
42:34
Speaker 1: don't protect yourself, who does that fall to? Yeah, listens
42:39
Speaker 1: and then and then exactly no one's gonna do it.
42:42
Speaker 1: And I mean, look, we've all got this life to
42:44
Speaker 1: do good work. I mean art. We're all here to
42:47
Speaker 1: do art. We're all here to make our own art,
42:49
Speaker 1: and that for me as a physician, I've realized that
42:52
Speaker 1: in order to make art, you have to be healthy.
42:55
Speaker 1: And I know you guys, we can talk about how
42:56
Speaker 1: to define healthy, but nutrition and nutritional density and nutrients,
43:00
Speaker 1: an absence of inflammation and autoimmunity that allows people to
43:04
Speaker 1: make their art. There's so much beautiful art, and whether
43:06
Speaker 1: it's painted art or singing art or this type of
43:08
Speaker 1: spoken art or writing art like this allows us to
43:11
Speaker 1: do our work. And that's what makes life meaningful. Is
43:14
Speaker 1: to create something beautiful, You've got to be healthy to
43:17
Speaker 1: do it. And that's why I want to do what
43:18
Speaker 1: I do, is to help people make more beautiful art,
43:21
Speaker 1: because God knows we need more beautiful art in this world.
43:23
Speaker 1: And that sounds who but you get it. It's exactly
43:25
Speaker 1: the same thing that we have to take care of ourselves.
43:28
Speaker 1: And for me, when I was hunting, I'll just wrap
43:29
Speaker 1: this thought up and then I'll tell you what I eat.
43:32
Speaker 1: Like I realized, Okay, this is the most nutritous food
43:34
Speaker 1: on the planet. Those those two white tail that I've
43:36
Speaker 1: eaten have been some of the most nourishing food. But
43:38
Speaker 1: I also remembered every single bite, like Okay, I took
43:42
Speaker 1: this life. This is my responsibility to do well and
43:45
Speaker 1: also to be a kind human. And so it's this
43:47
Speaker 1: amazing kind of quote sacrament. It's just remind me to
43:51
Speaker 1: be a good human. And I think that's one of
43:53
Speaker 1: the tragic things about getting your food from a grocery
43:55
Speaker 1: store all the time. And you guys probably get this.
43:57
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that if more people could hunt,
43:59
Speaker 1: we would be a different society. And that's the way
44:01
Speaker 1: it used to be, you know. I mean, think about
44:02
Speaker 1: how many generations ago. It wasn't that long ago when
44:04
Speaker 1: a lot of the food we got was from hunting.
44:07
Speaker 1: And if people just look below the surface, I'm sure
44:09
Speaker 1: that would have reminded them this is I should be
44:11
Speaker 1: gracious for this. This is bounty, this is nutritious food.
44:14
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna waste it. I'm gonna eat all the organs,
44:16
Speaker 1: get all my nutrition, and it's gonna nourish me to
44:18
Speaker 1: do whatever I find meaningful in this life. And that's
44:20
Speaker 1: that's my take as a doctor. So it's cool stuff.
44:34
Speaker 1: I think there is a lot of value in the
44:35
Speaker 1: the mental aspect of it. I mean, you know, it's
44:39
Speaker 1: not all chemistry, too, because when we're eating fish and
44:44
Speaker 1: game that we caught ourselves or hunted ourselves, or even
44:47
Speaker 1: eating things that we grew ourselves. I just like I
44:50
Speaker 1: become aware of it. And otherwise I wouldn't pay any
44:52
Speaker 1: attention to it. I would just be like whatever, you know,
44:54
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be interesting to me. But also it becomes
44:56
Speaker 1: intensely interesting to me, and there's probably and I like,
44:59
Speaker 1: and I pay more attention to it and focus on
45:01
Speaker 1: it more and more concerned about the quality because it, like,
45:03
Speaker 1: it becomes a thing of spiritual mental interest to me,
45:09
Speaker 1: and it heightens it's it heightens my awareness and involvement
45:12
Speaker 1: with it, whereas otherwise it would be just like another blase,
45:15
Speaker 1: boring thing that I wasn't even considerate of, you know.
45:19
Speaker 1: And I think the humans need wild places just like
45:22
Speaker 1: they need nutrients. Every time you take a bite of
45:24
Speaker 1: food that you've grown or gathered or hunted, there's a
45:28
Speaker 1: memory of being in a wild place or being in
45:30
Speaker 1: some outdoors somehow, and that that's nourishing for us too.
45:33
Speaker 1: You think, Oh, man, I think about I think about
45:35
Speaker 1: the camping trip and the hunting trip I went on
45:37
Speaker 1: in January and Junction, Texas, where I where I got that, dear,
45:40
Speaker 1: you know, with my bow, And then I think about
45:42
Speaker 1: the one in Flagstaff, Arizona a few years ago where
45:44
Speaker 1: I got my bow, and I know exactly where it happened,
45:46
Speaker 1: and I know that space, and in order to get
45:48
Speaker 1: those animals with a bow, I had to know that
45:50
Speaker 1: space well. I had to become part of that space,
45:52
Speaker 1: and I had to think where am I in relation
45:54
Speaker 1: to these animals? How do I smell? What time of
45:56
Speaker 1: day is it? And so you get this wilderness experience,
45:58
Speaker 1: and that's also valuable for humans. The whole thing kind
46:00
Speaker 1: of wraps into each other and gives you this such
46:03
Speaker 1: a powerful experience that I think for me has always
46:07
Speaker 1: spoken to the ethical consideration, like, yes, we don't want
46:10
Speaker 1: anything to suffer, and this is such a rich experience,
46:12
Speaker 1: and I would suggest an indispensable, invaluable part of being
46:17
Speaker 1: a human to be interacting with the animals that way,
46:20
Speaker 1: in a respectful way. You really become part of the
46:22
Speaker 1: whole community, don't you. You do You're part of an ecosystem,
46:25
Speaker 1: you know, you become part of an outdoor ecosystem and
46:28
Speaker 1: outdoor community. And I think that, I mean, going to
46:30
Speaker 1: grocery stores is kind of tragic. We all have to
46:32
Speaker 1: do it today, But how cool would it be to
46:34
Speaker 1: get back into that more? And that's what you guys do,
46:36
Speaker 1: and that's why it's so cool, And I want to
46:37
Speaker 1: get back to doing more of that. And I think
46:39
Speaker 1: that it starts with nutrition and then you start getting
46:41
Speaker 1: back into those wild places. And I'm hoping to get
46:43
Speaker 1: to a point in my life real soon where I
46:45
Speaker 1: can do a lot more that now. In the book
46:47
Speaker 1: and the Carnivore Code, I outline five tiers of a
46:53
Speaker 1: carnivore diet. And before I started this, I'll just tell
46:55
Speaker 1: people who are listening my intention in talking about carnivore
46:58
Speaker 1: diets and animal foods is not to convince everybody in
47:01
Speaker 1: the world to stop eating plants. It's really to construct
47:04
Speaker 1: a diet hierarchy in terms of nutritional value and um
47:09
Speaker 1: like the way that these foods make us who we
47:12
Speaker 1: are or allow us to become as optimal as we
47:15
Speaker 1: can be as humans from like a medical, biochemical, nutritional perspective.
47:19
Speaker 1: And so my my thesis with a carnivore diet or
47:22
Speaker 1: an animal based diet which a little is a little
47:24
Speaker 1: more of an inclusive idea, is that kind of like
47:27
Speaker 1: we've been talking about animal foods eaten nose to tail,
47:29
Speaker 1: organs and meat have been at the center of our
47:32
Speaker 1: ancestors existence forever since we were hominids, and that they
47:36
Speaker 1: are the most valuable foods on the planet. And yet again,
47:39
Speaker 1: as we've talked about, they've been vilified for the last
47:41
Speaker 1: seventy years. They should not be vilified. So I think
47:43
Speaker 1: that the first step to doing our art to being
47:45
Speaker 1: as optimal as possible is remembering that animal foods eating
47:48
Speaker 1: nose to tail are the most nutritionally dense and valuable
47:52
Speaker 1: foods on the planet. Like I said earlier, they have
47:54
Speaker 1: nutrients that are not found anywhere else that are very
47:56
Speaker 1: difficult to get. Their magical foods quote unquote, they're just
47:59
Speaker 1: the most nutritional foods in the planet. These are the
48:01
Speaker 1: most important food strusted to get. We should not believe
48:04
Speaker 1: that they are harmful for us. And then beyond that,
48:07
Speaker 1: in the book, I've created a broad strokes perspective on
48:10
Speaker 1: what I believe are more and less toxic plants. So
48:13
Speaker 1: I don't want people to think that they can't eat
48:14
Speaker 1: any plants, or they shouldn't eat any plants. Some people
48:17
Speaker 1: do really well with no plants in their diet. I
48:19
Speaker 1: haven't eaten significant amounts of plant foods and over two years,
48:22
Speaker 1: and I feel pretty darn good. And I'm not combusting
48:24
Speaker 1: with oxidative stress or you know, backed up into ridiculous
48:28
Speaker 1: amounts of constipation. I poop every day. Guys, I know
48:30
Speaker 1: you're all wondering about this with no fiber in my diet. Actually,
48:33
Speaker 1: that's good to hear. So I you know, there's this
48:37
Speaker 1: there's this spectrum of plant toxicity, which plants are more
48:40
Speaker 1: and less toxic. And if people want to include plants
48:42
Speaker 1: in their diet, which are the least toxic parts of
48:45
Speaker 1: plants and the least toxic plants, Yeah, you better explain
48:48
Speaker 1: plant toxicity. Yeah, I mean it's the thing that plants.
48:51
Speaker 1: I mean, as much as you can say a plant
48:52
Speaker 1: intentionally does something, it's like a part of a plant strategy.
48:57
Speaker 1: It is absolutely a part of a plant strategy. And
48:58
Speaker 1: it's it makes sense evolution narily. When you go hunting animals,
49:02
Speaker 1: they're gonna run away from you. They're pretty crafty. They
49:04
Speaker 1: can bite you or kick you, or go are you,
49:06
Speaker 1: or they can just run away. They're flying away, or
49:08
Speaker 1: they're fast, or they're crafty. They they fear better than
49:11
Speaker 1: us or smell better than us. But plants are rooted
49:13
Speaker 1: in the ground. This is not surprising to anyone. But
49:15
Speaker 1: there's been a coevolution between animals and plants for over
49:19
Speaker 1: four and fifty million years, and animals and plants have
49:23
Speaker 1: been in this kind of ongoing warfare, this chemical warfare.
49:27
Speaker 1: Plants have had to evolve defense chemicals to meter how
49:32
Speaker 1: much they get consumed by herbivorous animals or omnivorous animals,
49:36
Speaker 1: or there would be no such thing as ecosystems. If
49:38
Speaker 1: every tree was just made of chocolate or whatever, you know,
49:41
Speaker 1: delicacy a bear or you know, any animal wants to
49:45
Speaker 1: go eat, there would be no plants left on the
49:47
Speaker 1: planet because animals would eat the plants, they would reproduce more,
49:50
Speaker 1: and there would just be more and more animals and
49:51
Speaker 1: less and less plants. So there is this delicate balance,
49:54
Speaker 1: and that delicate balance is really it's it's just it's coordinated,
49:58
Speaker 1: it's orchestrated by these plants chemicals, and we're familiar with
50:02
Speaker 1: some of these. A lot of us know about some
50:04
Speaker 1: plants that are toxic around you know, around Christmas. If
50:07
Speaker 1: you have a point set in your house, you're like,
50:08
Speaker 1: don't let the kids go by the point set. You
50:10
Speaker 1: guys know the point set of plants. Oh they're super toxic.
50:14
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the super top knew that and forgot toxic.
50:17
Speaker 1: If you think if a kid eats a point set, yeah,
50:20
Speaker 1: they'll they'll they can get really, really sick. And there's
50:22
Speaker 1: a lot of other plants like that. And we were
50:24
Speaker 1: familiar with gluten and lectins messes up a lot of
50:26
Speaker 1: people's guts. I mean, there's a lot of plants out
50:28
Speaker 1: there that are just totally freaking toxic. There are people
50:30
Speaker 1: that have died for eating too much surrell and soral,
50:35
Speaker 1: you know, and um, it's that's because of the amount
50:37
Speaker 1: of oxalates in there. So that's a whole another thing
50:39
Speaker 1: we can go down a rabbit hole with. But there
50:41
Speaker 1: are a lot of plant toxins out there. And the
50:43
Speaker 1: ideas that the roots, the stems, the leaves, and the
50:47
Speaker 1: seeds of plants are plants kind of just saying hey,
50:50
Speaker 1: I'm here and you're there. I'm good, don't mess with me.
50:52
Speaker 1: I won't mess with you. Let's just try and be friends.
50:55
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put some toxins in these foods, these parts
50:57
Speaker 1: of my plant and issuade you from over consuming them.
51:02
Speaker 1: And if you eat a lot of them, you're not
51:03
Speaker 1: gonna feel very good, or you might even die. I
51:06
Speaker 1: might make this fruit every once in a while, and
51:08
Speaker 1: that's gonna be less toxic because I kind of want
51:10
Speaker 1: you to eat that and then poop out my seeds
51:12
Speaker 1: somewhere else where. It has this fertile pile of manure
51:14
Speaker 1: for me to grow. But there's a clear communication here.
51:17
Speaker 1: And so if you look at plants, the seeds of plants,
51:21
Speaker 1: which essentially are seeds, nuts, grains, and legumes, so beans
51:26
Speaker 1: are all seeds, they're all plant babies. That are all
51:28
Speaker 1: plant reproductive efforts to reproduce, to put their generation forward,
51:32
Speaker 1: to put the next generation of DNA beyond them. And
51:35
Speaker 1: these are some of the most highly defended parts of plants.
51:38
Speaker 1: And this won't really be totally foreign to anyone who's
51:41
Speaker 1: heard of things like gluten intolerance or Celiac disease. Well,
51:44
Speaker 1: wheat is a grain and it has a lot of lectins.
51:46
Speaker 1: Gluten is one lectins are these one type of plant
51:50
Speaker 1: defense chemical compound. But if that is other lectins like
51:54
Speaker 1: wheat or magluten in, a lot of things in wheat
51:56
Speaker 1: are not good for humans. It's a plant seed, it's
51:58
Speaker 1: a grain. A lot of other grains are not so
52:00
Speaker 1: good for us, like beans. Beans are excuse me, a
52:02
Speaker 1: lot of other seeds are not so good for us,
52:04
Speaker 1: like beans. And if you eat you ever trying to
52:06
Speaker 1: eat a raw bean, like off the plant. They're trying
52:10
Speaker 1: to be like a kidney bean. You ever seen kidney
52:12
Speaker 1: bean or a lion? They're superbeans. Really, how do you feel?
52:17
Speaker 1: I didn't need enough. I knew that they will mess
52:19
Speaker 1: you up, so I never ate enough to mess super
52:20
Speaker 1: mess you up. So but I read about a kid,
52:22
Speaker 1: a three year old kid who got lost in a
52:23
Speaker 1: soybean field one time, and he'd eat a bunch of
52:25
Speaker 1: soybeans and got sick. And I just ate one to
52:27
Speaker 1: see what it was like. Yeah, so if you eat
52:29
Speaker 1: raw beans, they will they will make you violently ill.
52:32
Speaker 1: And there are hundreds of recorded episodes now of people
52:34
Speaker 1: getting food poisoning from undercook kidney beans. So a lot
52:38
Speaker 1: of the seeds out there are frankly toxic to humans.
52:40
Speaker 1: You know, apple seeds have toxic things in them like
52:43
Speaker 1: arsenic or cyanide, and I should stop eating those. My
52:46
Speaker 1: dad was always like eat the seeds in the core
52:49
Speaker 1: and the apple. Ye, I mean you could eat them,
52:52
Speaker 1: just don't don't shoot them. Don't. I guess I've ever
52:57
Speaker 1: been poisoned. Let me hit you one of that. I
52:59
Speaker 1: think you'll think it is, then you'll appreciate this one.
53:01
Speaker 1: So you're from us with snowshoe hairs, they're they're famously cyclical,
53:07
Speaker 1: and they on these like you know, seven year eight
53:09
Speaker 1: year cycles where their populations explode and in a collapse
53:13
Speaker 1: and exploding collapse, and people used to try to correlate
53:15
Speaker 1: it to all kinds of things, um, sun spots wherever
53:19
Speaker 1: that no one could ever find an explanation. Lead theory
53:21
Speaker 1: on why snowshoe hairs have a cyclical spike is they
53:26
Speaker 1: predominantly will feed on willow um as the willows are
53:32
Speaker 1: getting overgrazed, they'll start putting a ton of energy into toxins,
53:38
Speaker 1: and then the primary food source of the animal actually
53:41
Speaker 1: starts to not be nourishing and kills it. All of
53:44
Speaker 1: a sudden, you trim off this whole population of rabbits.
53:48
Speaker 1: The plants aren't getting grays anymore, they don't put energy
53:51
Speaker 1: into plant toxicity, and eventually this very small amount of
53:56
Speaker 1: rem that rabbits are left are back to eating a
53:58
Speaker 1: healthy food source. And this cycle seems to run in
54:01
Speaker 1: about a seven year cycle. And that's this is after
54:04
Speaker 1: many people postulated many things, but to lead theory on
54:06
Speaker 1: what drives that is there that plant's response to getting
54:10
Speaker 1: eaten by it. And if you look at grazing animals,
54:13
Speaker 1: there are many historical examples of large herds of grazing
54:16
Speaker 1: animals dying and mass when they're cordoned off by fences
54:21
Speaker 1: are made to graze on a small amount of area.
54:24
Speaker 1: If you look at ruminants or grazing animals, they don't
54:26
Speaker 1: eat just one plant. I mean this, this example of
54:29
Speaker 1: the hairs is interesting, but a lot of them will
54:31
Speaker 1: pick a little bit of this one, little bit of
54:32
Speaker 1: that one, a little bit of that one, because they
54:33
Speaker 1: realize every plant has a toxin in it and if
54:36
Speaker 1: they get too much of this toxin, they're gonna get sick.
54:38
Speaker 1: But they can get a little bit of this tox
54:39
Speaker 1: and a little bit of that tox, and a little
54:40
Speaker 1: bit of that tox and a little bit of that toxin. Right,
54:42
Speaker 1: So this is these are herbivorous animals. But the thesis
54:46
Speaker 1: that I example advanced or you know, the kind of
54:48
Speaker 1: the hypothesis. What I'm saying in the carnivore code with
54:50
Speaker 1: this idea is, look, eating animal foods made us human.
54:53
Speaker 1: And we can talk about why I think that way.
54:55
Speaker 1: If you look at the evolution of the human brain,
54:57
Speaker 1: it exploded in size, not literally but figure early in
55:00
Speaker 1: the last two million years, and that correlates very strongly
55:03
Speaker 1: with the advent of hunting. There were these auschuli and
55:06
Speaker 1: these bifacial tools cut marks on bones, mass graves, and
55:10
Speaker 1: you can date, you know how old these bones and
55:12
Speaker 1: these animals are that have cut marks and stuff. It
55:13
Speaker 1: looks like humans started hunting about two million years ago.
55:16
Speaker 1: Our brain was about five hundred ccs and it had
55:19
Speaker 1: been about five ccs for the previous ninety million years.
55:23
Speaker 1: And you know, you go up and in the last
55:25
Speaker 1: and the next two million years, it grows from five
55:27
Speaker 1: hundred ccs TOCs it triples in size, which is a
55:30
Speaker 1: massive energetic input for humans. We had to change all
55:33
Speaker 1: sorts of things in our gut, and that was probably
55:35
Speaker 1: because there were more calories and there were these unique
55:39
Speaker 1: nutrients and animal foods nias and riba flavor, coline, carnatine
55:42
Speaker 1: creatine that our brains needed to grow and something. When
55:45
Speaker 1: we had those boom. We can grow a bigger brain,
55:48
Speaker 1: and that gives us more survival advantage. We get a
55:49
Speaker 1: near cortex, We can plan hunting with our with our tribe,
55:53
Speaker 1: we can evade predators better. We don't have claws and
55:55
Speaker 1: towns anymore, but we can fashion spears and nest. The
55:59
Speaker 1: human race goes on, and so a food that lies
56:02
Speaker 1: at the center of our evolution is what we need
56:05
Speaker 1: to grow and that really made us who we are.
56:07
Speaker 1: That's a statement I make in the book that eating
56:09
Speaker 1: animals nos the tail made us human. It made us human,
56:13
Speaker 1: and I think that because of that, and there's good
56:16
Speaker 1: evidence for this, looking at stable isotopes of you know,
56:19
Speaker 1: fossilized remains of teeth that are I think at least
56:22
Speaker 1: a million years old, which is crazy to think about that,
56:25
Speaker 1: and even more recent hunter gatherers um from fifty thousand
56:29
Speaker 1: years ago. You can look at uh stabilized stope analysis
56:32
Speaker 1: of co living Neanderthal and Homo sapiens in northern Europe
56:35
Speaker 1: and see the majority of their protein was coming from animals.
56:38
Speaker 1: And you can look at this these barrium and caesium
56:40
Speaker 1: and nitrogen and carbon and sulfur isotopes, and say, man,
56:43
Speaker 1: they were eating a lot of animals. It looks like
56:45
Speaker 1: they were eating like more animals than known carnivores like hyenas.
56:49
Speaker 1: So the thesis in a lot of anthropology circles is, hey,
56:52
Speaker 1: we were essentially high level quote carnivores. We weren't eating
56:55
Speaker 1: all animals, but we were eating the majority of our
56:57
Speaker 1: diet as animals when we could get them. So I'm
57:00
Speaker 1: they think that our blueprint is humans is in stark
57:03
Speaker 1: contrast what we've been told today. It's not kale that's
57:05
Speaker 1: the superfood. It's the animal foods that are the superfoods.
57:08
Speaker 1: And that you see this indigenous cultures too. They seek
57:11
Speaker 1: out animals preferentially, and they'll eat plants as fallback food,
57:15
Speaker 1: as survival food, but they don't really if they've got
57:18
Speaker 1: a big kill, they're not gonna be like, hey, we
57:20
Speaker 1: got a whole whole elephants or a whole water buffalo. Well,
57:23
Speaker 1: let's just put that aside. I'm gonna go I'm gonna
57:25
Speaker 1: go gather some tubers, you know, I'm gonna go gather
57:27
Speaker 1: some There's some good, some good acorns over here. They're like, no,
57:31
Speaker 1: I'm gonna eat this freaking buffalo. Man. But we're we're
57:34
Speaker 1: adaptable as humans, and we do have the ability to
57:36
Speaker 1: be omnivorous, and I think that we've used that throughout
57:39
Speaker 1: our evolution to during times of scarcity, use plant foods
57:43
Speaker 1: as fallback foods, as survival foods. And this is because
57:46
Speaker 1: plants have toxins. So what have we done. We've learned
57:48
Speaker 1: how to ferment them. And you see this over and
57:51
Speaker 1: over a lot of times when indigenous cultures eat plant foods,
57:53
Speaker 1: they're fermented things like sauer Kraud. This comes from fermented cabbage.
57:57
Speaker 1: A lot of the toxins that are in cabbage, which
57:59
Speaker 1: a lot of the same toxins and kale are degraded
58:02
Speaker 1: when you ferment the cabbage. A lot of beans are
58:05
Speaker 1: fermented in sort of South American cultures. So we've figured
58:07
Speaker 1: out ways. But if you look at the number of ways,
58:10
Speaker 1: the sheer volume of ways that humans have figured out
58:12
Speaker 1: to make plants more edible, it's clearly indicating they are
58:16
Speaker 1: full of toxins. Whether it's cooking or dhauling or it's
58:19
Speaker 1: an interesting point, man, Like the amotta plants we eat
58:22
Speaker 1: you know, the grains and stuff we you don't eat,
58:25
Speaker 1: like you can't eat raw raw. You gotta do to
58:29
Speaker 1: make them medable. You gotta do a lot of stuff.
58:30
Speaker 1: You gotta pressure cook the heck out of the mean.
58:32
Speaker 1: Look at white rice, you know, in Asian cultures, it's
58:35
Speaker 1: a staple, and they figured out, oh, if you take
58:37
Speaker 1: the hull off the rice, it's way less toxic for humans,
58:40
Speaker 1: and we've been told the reverse. So brown rice is
58:42
Speaker 1: more healthy. But brown rice has a lot of arsenic
58:44
Speaker 1: in it, because arsenic is concentrated in the hull of
58:47
Speaker 1: the rice, and a lot of the things that prevent
58:49
Speaker 1: us from absorbing minerals are in the hull of the rice,
58:52
Speaker 1: like phightic acid, things like that. So humans realize, hey,
58:55
Speaker 1: if we take the hull off the rice, we can
58:57
Speaker 1: get the grain out of the middle, and there's not
58:58
Speaker 1: a lot of nutrients in there, but as at least
59:00
Speaker 1: calories to keep me going until tomorrow. But where do
59:03
Speaker 1: we then get our massive micro nutrient doses. We get
59:05
Speaker 1: them from animal foods every day. Okay, this is my
59:09
Speaker 1: long way to answer for what I eat every day
59:11
Speaker 1: and the reason I had that whole sort of explanation was.
59:15
Speaker 1: I wanted people to understand that this is my perspective
59:18
Speaker 1: on it, because when I say this, people are just
59:20
Speaker 1: gonna be like, click off goes the podcast. This guy's
59:23
Speaker 1: a looney been m because you're doing you're doing an
59:27
Speaker 1: extreme version. We should have started with that. Yeah, I mean, so,
59:36
Speaker 1: so I don't need plants, all right, I don't need
59:38
Speaker 1: any plants. I have any any plants in over two years.
59:41
Speaker 1: I did a short experiment for a couple of days
59:43
Speaker 1: where I was wearing a continuous glucost monitor where I
59:47
Speaker 1: included some berries and some squash in my diet just
59:49
Speaker 1: to see what would happen to my glucost. But I've
59:51
Speaker 1: found that I feel better without plants. And the reason
59:54
Speaker 1: I don't need need plants is because I don't. There
59:56
Speaker 1: are no nutrients and plants that I can't get from
59:59
Speaker 1: eating animal. No, the tail and I take when you
1:00:01
Speaker 1: can play. When you say plants, you're talking like flower,
1:00:05
Speaker 1: like wheat, No, like like any plants that I'm saying.
1:00:08
Speaker 1: I mean you're including that. Oh yeah, I'm including like
1:00:10
Speaker 1: grains and flour and wheat like I don't know to
1:00:12
Speaker 1: talk about skipping green vegetables. No, all of this every
1:00:16
Speaker 1: once in a while, I'm on a date with a
1:00:17
Speaker 1: girl and I don't need plants, and she goes, well,
1:00:18
Speaker 1: do you eat bread? No, I don't need bread. I
1:00:21
Speaker 1: don't even plants. Well do you know no, I don't.
1:00:23
Speaker 1: Just I don't think people understand, like I don't need
1:00:25
Speaker 1: plant products, like all I eat all I eat his
1:00:27
Speaker 1: animals and you know I people say, well, then you
1:00:30
Speaker 1: just eat meat, and how that go over on the date? There?
1:00:32
Speaker 1: They usually that's usually that of the day or they're
1:00:34
Speaker 1: like they kind of roll their eyes and they're just
1:00:35
Speaker 1: not sure what to think. I think they're in shell
1:00:37
Speaker 1: shock after that. I'm not sure. Yeah, I try to
1:00:39
Speaker 1: get that to like the second or third date. I don't.
1:00:42
Speaker 1: I try not to let that. Don't do dinner dates.
1:00:45
Speaker 1: They're like, you want to go to restaurant. I'm like
1:00:47
Speaker 1: about that, Let's just go for a walk. Uh, let's
1:00:50
Speaker 1: just go hiking or something. Um still doesn't go over
1:00:53
Speaker 1: so good. People think it's a little strange. But I
1:00:54
Speaker 1: don't eat I don't need plants. I eat only meat.
1:00:56
Speaker 1: But by meat, I don't just eat meat, right, I
1:00:59
Speaker 1: eat meat and liver and organs. So I eat two
1:01:01
Speaker 1: meals a day. I'm interested in time restricted feeding, which
1:01:04
Speaker 1: is eating. I eat breakfast, and I eat lunch late lunch,
1:01:06
Speaker 1: and then I don't eat dinner because I want to
1:01:08
Speaker 1: have some period in the day where I'm not eating,
1:01:10
Speaker 1: kind of like this intermittent fasting type of idea. And
1:01:13
Speaker 1: if you look at this, you know, I take my
1:01:14
Speaker 1: key tones in the morning and I actually have keytnes
1:01:17
Speaker 1: in my blood every morning, so I'll get into keytosis. Um.
1:01:19
Speaker 1: But I think is a good thing for humans to
1:01:21
Speaker 1: kind of cycle in and out of keytosis, but not
1:01:23
Speaker 1: be in it all the time. I think, when you're
1:01:25
Speaker 1: done telling us about what you eat and then we
1:01:27
Speaker 1: should talk a little bit about keto keytosis, well yeah,
1:01:30
Speaker 1: do that, but but finish this because but I want
1:01:33
Speaker 1: to I gotta have you in the morning. So I
1:01:35
Speaker 1: wake up in the morning. So this morning, I eat
1:01:37
Speaker 1: the same thing pretty much every day. I I've got
1:01:39
Speaker 1: it works for me, and I mean I'm easy. Um.
1:01:41
Speaker 1: But again that it's not to say that you have
1:01:42
Speaker 1: to eat this way. There's a lot of variety. We're
1:01:44
Speaker 1: building a cookbook around this too. Um. So I eat
1:01:47
Speaker 1: a lot of so I eat grass fed grass finish
1:01:48
Speaker 1: meat from our generative farms, a lot of good farms.
1:01:50
Speaker 1: I want to support that type of agriculture. If I
1:01:52
Speaker 1: can't eat an animal that I've hunted, i'll eat meat
1:01:55
Speaker 1: from those farms. And so i'll eat about a pound
1:01:57
Speaker 1: of meat twice a day, eat a little less than
1:01:58
Speaker 1: two pounds of meat a day. And it's right now,
1:02:00
Speaker 1: it's a lot of stew meat. And I make bone broth,
1:02:03
Speaker 1: so I'll make my own bone broth with knucklebones. It
1:02:05
Speaker 1: has all the tendons on there. And what I'll do
1:02:07
Speaker 1: is I'll blanch the meat in bone broth and then
1:02:09
Speaker 1: add salt to it, and then I'll eat the bone
1:02:11
Speaker 1: broth and tendons, and i'll get my glycine, the connective tissue,
1:02:14
Speaker 1: and I'll eat the meat. And then I also eat
1:02:16
Speaker 1: some organs, and so as many of the fresh organs
1:02:18
Speaker 1: as I have, i'll eat those. So most days i'll
1:02:20
Speaker 1: eat liver, heart spleen, pancreas. If i've got thimus, i'll
1:02:25
Speaker 1: eat it. If I can get testco, i'll eat it.
1:02:27
Speaker 1: And your butcher's gotta love you, man, because you're buying
1:02:29
Speaker 1: the stuff they have. No, it's not even at the butcher.
1:02:32
Speaker 1: It's hard to get I gotta talk to my phone.
1:02:33
Speaker 1: You're buying all the stuff that winds up in a
1:02:35
Speaker 1: rendering play. Yeah, yeah, and that's that's important, you know.
1:02:37
Speaker 1: So I get all the organs I can in a day,
1:02:39
Speaker 1: a few ounces, and then I'll eat some suet because
1:02:41
Speaker 1: I'm really interested in this kidney fat um. It's high
1:02:44
Speaker 1: in a compound called ste i. I just I chew
1:02:48
Speaker 1: it and I have like a swig of bone broth
1:02:50
Speaker 1: with it, kind of warm because it sue it's really waxy.
1:02:52
Speaker 1: It's all either like straight as straight ass. You don't
1:02:56
Speaker 1: you don't you don't you don't like rendered out in
1:02:58
Speaker 1: the pan, or like you make a crackling Nope, I
1:03:01
Speaker 1: just eat it. I just take the suit raw and
1:03:02
Speaker 1: I eat it with bone broth, and then I'll add
1:03:05
Speaker 1: some Redman real salt. And then so for the first
1:03:08
Speaker 1: year and a half, you're okay with salt. Yeah, yeah,
1:03:11
Speaker 1: totally okay with salt. Before you get to how it
1:03:13
Speaker 1: felt to tell me about just blanching stew meat, because
1:03:16
Speaker 1: that to me sounds real tough. It's actually not bad
1:03:19
Speaker 1: at all, because I don't over blanch it. I mean,
1:03:21
Speaker 1: I'm just doing that because I find stew meat to
1:03:22
Speaker 1: be affordable. People will sometimes criticize my diet and say,
1:03:25
Speaker 1: I can't eat two ReBs a day. That's fifty bucks
1:03:28
Speaker 1: in me. And I go, well, I eat eight dollars
1:03:29
Speaker 1: a pound grass fed, grass finished stew meat, and I
1:03:32
Speaker 1: think it's I think it's great. So you take the bone, Yeah,
1:03:35
Speaker 1: that's good. Yet had a good question. You take you
1:03:37
Speaker 1: make bone broth, which I get and then imagined you
1:03:40
Speaker 1: probably pick all this stuff off the bone, eat all
1:03:42
Speaker 1: of it. And I actually will chew on the bones too.
1:03:45
Speaker 1: And then and then you'll take stew meat, slice it,
1:03:48
Speaker 1: just slice it thin or cut it however, and you'll
1:03:51
Speaker 1: heat up bone broth to cook the stew meat. And
1:03:54
Speaker 1: this is how I'm doing it. Now do you ever?
1:03:56
Speaker 1: Do you ever? Uh? Did you just take animal fat
1:03:59
Speaker 1: and fry? I don't. Why not? I have in the past,
1:04:04
Speaker 1: But because I'm a scientist, because I'm a doctor, and
1:04:06
Speaker 1: I think about lipid peroxides and all this other so
1:04:10
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, keep talking about your food.
1:04:12
Speaker 1: I'm gonna add in my notes lipid peroxide, lipid peroxides,
1:04:17
Speaker 1: white frying is bad. All right. Now, I'm disappointed. I've
1:04:23
Speaker 1: done a lot of that. Okay, I think that's probably
1:04:25
Speaker 1: if you're fine an animal fat, I think you're probably
1:04:27
Speaker 1: find there's a lot of cultures to do it. But
1:04:28
Speaker 1: I do experiments myself all the time. I'm trying to
1:04:30
Speaker 1: optimize because I realized that. I'm like, so you're like
1:04:32
Speaker 1: against frying stuff an animal fat. I'm not against it.
1:04:35
Speaker 1: I just like doing the experiments and myself to see
1:04:38
Speaker 1: because I'm like the pirate man, I'm like the astronaut
1:04:40
Speaker 1: on the way to the moon. Nobody's ever done this before,
1:04:42
Speaker 1: and I just want to be like, is this better
1:04:44
Speaker 1: as it worse. I want to be the person that
1:04:46
Speaker 1: kind of helps people understand, like this is the ideal,
1:04:48
Speaker 1: but you can do it this way too. I'm not
1:04:49
Speaker 1: completely against frying things in animal fat um. I used
1:04:52
Speaker 1: to do that a lot. I just do a lot
1:04:53
Speaker 1: of the blanching now, and so I'll put it in
1:04:54
Speaker 1: the in the bone broth for maybe less than a minute.
1:04:57
Speaker 1: So I like my meat really raw, and so if
1:04:59
Speaker 1: you just cook the outs side and then you know
1:05:01
Speaker 1: the inside is pretty much like blue rare. Yeah, yeah,
1:05:04
Speaker 1: I'm not over cooking it. And the meat I get
1:05:05
Speaker 1: from these regenerative farms is pretty darn tender, and I
1:05:07
Speaker 1: love it. Not into fish. We can talk about fish.
1:05:12
Speaker 1: We can talk about fish. So I love fish. I
1:05:16
Speaker 1: just feel like a lot of fish is from sources
1:05:19
Speaker 1: that are polluted. If I could eat fish from clean
1:05:21
Speaker 1: rivers and lakes or oceans, I'll do it. So you
1:05:23
Speaker 1: don't like the heavy metals, I don't like the heavy metals.
1:05:25
Speaker 1: Get worried about this then microplastics. Yeah, I mean I
1:05:28
Speaker 1: think about this because I I test my heavy metals
1:05:30
Speaker 1: all the time, and I test the metals in my clients.
1:05:32
Speaker 1: And if I have had clients who eat opo, I
1:05:35
Speaker 1: go to the story they get opos wild or they
1:05:37
Speaker 1: get you know, it's just like I think I'm one
1:05:39
Speaker 1: of these bigger deep sea fishes. Oh I'm a minute, okay, yeah, um,
1:05:44
Speaker 1: halb don't eat with fish, yeah, halib it, sword fish,
1:05:48
Speaker 1: those kind of things. A lot of metals, and you'll
1:05:49
Speaker 1: see this down. We should have started with this if
1:05:54
Speaker 1: you're if you're guinea pigging yourself like all. I mean,
1:05:58
Speaker 1: I think that's awesome. I think we should have just
1:06:00
Speaker 1: started with this intro to to like set the record straight.
1:06:04
Speaker 1: He's you know, I think it's great, but there's no
1:06:06
Speaker 1: reason to apologize. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's like
1:06:11
Speaker 1: you feel a little bit of burden. Right. If I'm
1:06:13
Speaker 1: going to write a book as a physician, I'm going
1:06:15
Speaker 1: to test all my labs. I've probably done over a
1:06:17
Speaker 1: thousand blood work test at this point, and I talked
1:06:19
Speaker 1: about Yeah, I test my labs all the time. I
1:06:21
Speaker 1: had a couple of blood tests like last week. I've
1:06:23
Speaker 1: done it all my podcast multiple times. I love doing
1:06:25
Speaker 1: blood work and looking at things and looking at my
1:06:27
Speaker 1: inflammatory markers and my heavy metals, and I want to
1:06:29
Speaker 1: know these things because I'm writing a book and I
1:06:31
Speaker 1: have to be able to tell people this is what
1:06:33
Speaker 1: I think works, this is what I believe works. And
1:06:34
Speaker 1: I work with clients doing this too, So I see
1:06:36
Speaker 1: it all the time. And what I'm saying about the
1:06:38
Speaker 1: OPA or the uh, the I had so many a
1:06:41
Speaker 1: lot of tuna, and then you see the mercury and
1:06:43
Speaker 1: the blood rise immediately even three week, three times a week,
1:06:47
Speaker 1: wild Sam, and I'll see the mercury bump a little bit,
1:06:49
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, that's an ideal. Have we just
1:06:52
Speaker 1: over polluted all the oceans at this point? And I think, well,
1:06:54
Speaker 1: I like fish and I love fishing, and I love
1:06:57
Speaker 1: I've only fly fished a couple of times, but I
1:06:59
Speaker 1: freaking love being on rivers. I love being in those places.
1:07:02
Speaker 1: But I ask myself, is it the best food in
1:07:05
Speaker 1: was it? Was it fantastic food years ago? Absolutely? But
1:07:09
Speaker 1: the thing I worry about is that is fishing. I'm
1:07:13
Speaker 1: not telling people I can't fish. I'm just trying to
1:07:14
Speaker 1: offer tools that might be helpful for human health. But
1:07:17
Speaker 1: is fishing now like eating beef grown in downtown Tokyo.
1:07:22
Speaker 1: You know, if if you eat beef that's inhaling lots
1:07:24
Speaker 1: of polluted air all the time, is that the best
1:07:26
Speaker 1: kind of beef you want to eat? Like I want
1:07:27
Speaker 1: to eat beef that's grown on the Idyllic farm in
1:07:29
Speaker 1: northern California. Well, yeah, but they just eat short lived,
1:07:33
Speaker 1: non pasciferous fish. That's probably the way to do it.
1:07:36
Speaker 1: That's the way to Yeah, eat small fish that don't
1:07:39
Speaker 1: accumulate metals, avoid big old fish, to eat lots of
1:07:43
Speaker 1: big old fish. There you go, That probably the way
1:07:45
Speaker 1: to do it. So if I did more of that,
1:07:47
Speaker 1: maybe I do that, But I mean one could do that.
1:07:50
Speaker 1: You could do that. You could do that. And also
1:07:52
Speaker 1: if you were eating fish, you could eat the fish
1:07:53
Speaker 1: nose to tail too. You know. The the fish row
1:07:55
Speaker 1: is very beneficial and has been treasured by cultures for
1:07:58
Speaker 1: many generations as well. And the organs brain. Yeah, those
1:08:01
Speaker 1: kind of things are valuable. Fish eyes, fish head, soup.
1:08:04
Speaker 1: This is what we're talking about. Nose to tail. Let's
1:08:06
Speaker 1: get back to your daily diet. Okay, my daily diet.
1:08:08
Speaker 1: You started out. You got your bone broth. My bone broth.
1:08:11
Speaker 1: I blanched some some some some steaming in it. How
1:08:15
Speaker 1: much bone broth you drink? Uh? So I make a
1:08:18
Speaker 1: big pot for and it last me three to four days.
1:08:20
Speaker 1: I drink probably sixteen ounces a day of bone broth.
1:08:24
Speaker 1: No coffee, I don't do coffee. That's a plant. Yeah.
1:08:27
Speaker 1: Do you got any kind of coffee type thing you
1:08:29
Speaker 1: make just to get that sensation of drinking coffee? I
1:08:31
Speaker 1: do deep breaths, I'll just go, you know, or just
1:08:35
Speaker 1: the organs. You have to quit drinking coffee at some
1:08:39
Speaker 1: point in time. Was it hard? It was hard. I
1:08:41
Speaker 1: used to be a bike racer, so I used to
1:08:43
Speaker 1: race road bikes, and there's a big culture and road
1:08:45
Speaker 1: bike in around. Sipping your cappuccino with your finger out. Yeah,
1:08:48
Speaker 1: then like coffee and road bike in and stuff. Yeah,
1:08:51
Speaker 1: you know that kind of brings a bell. I've seen that,
1:08:54
Speaker 1: like a bunch of old dudes on bikes, the little
1:08:56
Speaker 1: clickie shoes going in and get going in to get coffee,
1:08:59
Speaker 1: and there's a there's yeah, you wear spandex, you drink
1:09:02
Speaker 1: coffee a lot of the time. Like, yeah, they're super excited.
1:09:06
Speaker 1: Maybe they shouldn't be wearing spandex. But that's a whole different,
1:09:08
Speaker 1: whole different stories. So and yeah, when I had to
1:09:10
Speaker 1: stop drinking coffee, got a wake at headache for a week,
1:09:12
Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, but it was giving me
1:09:16
Speaker 1: a drinking and give you a headache. I do, but
1:09:20
Speaker 1: sometimes I'm like I don't want to drink it for
1:09:22
Speaker 1: a week, and I don't drink camel tea in the morning. Yeah,
1:09:26
Speaker 1: he's very on your very you're the exception. I wind
1:09:30
Speaker 1: up where I can't get any coffee. I take a
1:09:32
Speaker 1: aspirin or Bobby profen. Proact what's the word I'm looking for. Proactively. Really,
1:09:40
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm like, well, if I can't get a coffee,
1:09:42
Speaker 1: I'll get a headache. So I just treat. I just
1:09:43
Speaker 1: treat the headache. And I used to take Excedrin. I
1:09:45
Speaker 1: used to carry around exceed because he's got caffeine in it.
1:09:48
Speaker 1: Just I don't know, stick your head, and I used
1:09:50
Speaker 1: to water and do like twenty five push ups. You're golden.
1:09:53
Speaker 1: It's pain. That's not what he's trying to It's not
1:09:57
Speaker 1: the fact that he's not waking up. It's the fact
1:09:59
Speaker 1: that he's You're gonna get the caffeine addiction. So excedrin
1:10:03
Speaker 1: has a little bit of caffeine in it. I iced
1:10:04
Speaker 1: to bring it camping, and if we were doing a
1:10:06
Speaker 1: thing where there wasn't gonna be coffee in the morning,
1:10:08
Speaker 1: I would bring it and just take it instead of
1:10:10
Speaker 1: coffee so that I wouldn't get the coffee headache. But hey,
1:10:12
Speaker 1: what don't you talk about coffee? All right? So there
1:10:14
Speaker 1: you are. You have to drinking all this bone broth.
1:10:17
Speaker 1: Drinking bone broth eating tendons blanched me. And then I'll
1:10:21
Speaker 1: eat the organs, and I eat the organs raw. So
1:10:23
Speaker 1: I love to eat the organs ship. I'll do shooters.
1:10:25
Speaker 1: And I was talking to Korean about this before. I
1:10:27
Speaker 1: think a good way to eat liver is to do
1:10:28
Speaker 1: a shooter. But I realized a lot of people won't
1:10:30
Speaker 1: do this, which is why we made the descated organ
1:10:31
Speaker 1: supplements as well. So I'll do the organs and then
1:10:35
Speaker 1: So for the first I was just saying this. For
1:10:36
Speaker 1: the first year and a half I did this, I
1:10:38
Speaker 1: had no carbs in my diet. It was zero carb
1:10:41
Speaker 1: um but a lot of protein balm. Let me ask you, Okay,
1:10:43
Speaker 1: we'll come back to that. No, No, just a quick digression.
1:10:48
Speaker 1: Are you okay? Do you ever find yourself? Do you're
1:10:54
Speaker 1: sneak a donut? I think that, I'm I think that.
1:10:59
Speaker 1: Are you ever like my god? Do I want to donut?
1:11:02
Speaker 1: You know what? I will never eat another cookie as
1:11:04
Speaker 1: long as I live. I just don't crave them. See
1:11:06
Speaker 1: that's like, Yeahni, he's all anti sugar. Well, I just don't.
1:11:10
Speaker 1: You may not like the next thing I'm gonna say,
1:11:12
Speaker 1: but I don't. Um, I don't. I just don't crave
1:11:15
Speaker 1: those foods. I think in my mind, I've been able. No.
1:11:19
Speaker 1: I never did, not, even like a little kid. I mean, sure,
1:11:21
Speaker 1: as a little kid I did. But at some point
1:11:23
Speaker 1: there was a shift in my mind and psychologically I
1:11:26
Speaker 1: just connected the way I felt afterwards, and I was
1:11:29
Speaker 1: like it's not worth it. It's not worth it. Nothing
1:11:31
Speaker 1: takes as good as healthy feels. Tony Robbins said, that
1:11:33
Speaker 1: is I love it, you know, like I just prioritize it.
1:11:35
Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, in medical school, I
1:11:37
Speaker 1: was doing jiu jitsu. Man, I'm getting choked and ship.
1:11:40
Speaker 1: I don't want to feel bad the next day, Like
1:11:41
Speaker 1: I can't even a donut or drink alcohol, and you know,
1:11:44
Speaker 1: I just running and being in the woods. There's so
1:11:46
Speaker 1: many cool things I want to do in my life.
1:11:48
Speaker 1: I don't want it. It's not worth it to me
1:11:49
Speaker 1: to eat bad food. That's why I quit drinking so
1:11:51
Speaker 1: much alcohol. I love drinking alcohol, just like being hungover.
1:11:54
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you're more connected to how your
1:11:58
Speaker 1: body feels? And maybe the average person who if you ask,
1:12:01
Speaker 1: how do you feel after drinking five bottles of beer?
1:12:04
Speaker 1: How do you feel after eating half of a pound cake?
1:12:09
Speaker 1: That that you're yeah, or that you're actually tuned into
1:12:18
Speaker 1: a certain visceral feeling and experience of yourself, like moment
1:12:23
Speaker 1: by moment that you just there. You don't crave it
1:12:26
Speaker 1: because it feels like pain. Absolutely, And I think this
1:12:29
Speaker 1: is one of the key points is that when you
1:12:32
Speaker 1: simplify your diet enough. When you get clean enough quote unquote,
1:12:35
Speaker 1: you get you get a good baseline. A lot of
1:12:38
Speaker 1: people can't separate signal from noise, so they always feel shitty,
1:12:41
Speaker 1: or they always feel a little bit hungover, They always
1:12:43
Speaker 1: feel a little bit brain fog. Are they always a
1:12:45
Speaker 1: little depressed? Yeah, what you're saying, once you get clean
1:12:48
Speaker 1: quote unquote, you know once you and a lot of
1:12:50
Speaker 1: people experience that for the first time when they fast,
1:12:53
Speaker 1: because it's it's really tricky for people to understand what
1:12:55
Speaker 1: good food is. But if you if you really don't
1:12:57
Speaker 1: know what to eat, just fast for a few days,
1:12:59
Speaker 1: which is not easy, but fast for three days and
1:13:01
Speaker 1: you will feel the best you've ever felt in your
1:13:02
Speaker 1: life because you have no negative inputs. Now, the trick
1:13:05
Speaker 1: is being able to do that long term, because you
1:13:06
Speaker 1: can't fast forever you will die. But if you can
1:13:09
Speaker 1: feel as good as you feel when you are fasting,
1:13:11
Speaker 1: when you're eating food, then you found food that really
1:13:13
Speaker 1: worked with your body. And that's the way that I
1:13:15
Speaker 1: and now thousands of people feel when they're doing an
1:13:17
Speaker 1: animal based diet or mostly animal foods, eating nose to
1:13:20
Speaker 1: tail and so yes, I think that I've gotten so
1:13:22
Speaker 1: refined in the laboratory of this corporeum my body that
1:13:27
Speaker 1: I know when I eat something bad, I'm just like, man,
1:13:29
Speaker 1: I ate something, I'm off either my stomach feels off
1:13:31
Speaker 1: or I get brain fog. And I've heard it from
1:13:33
Speaker 1: my friends too. I mean, you know, I'm traveling with
1:13:34
Speaker 1: a couple of couple of my friends from Hard and
1:13:36
Speaker 1: Soil here, and you know, one of the guys had
1:13:38
Speaker 1: to eat a sandwich in the airport and he did
1:13:39
Speaker 1: it kind of cheapestly. I was like, Doug, where'd you go.
1:13:41
Speaker 1: He's like, I had a sandwich. I was like, why,
1:13:42
Speaker 1: why did you do that? You didn't want to eat
1:13:43
Speaker 1: it in front of me, did you? And he's like, yeah,
1:13:45
Speaker 1: sandwich shaming. Yeah. And then he was like, you know what,
1:13:50
Speaker 1: I don't feel good and he was farting all last
1:13:52
Speaker 1: night and stuff, and so you know, it's you can tell.
1:13:54
Speaker 1: But once you get your body kind of refined, that
1:13:56
Speaker 1: makes it so much easier to make behavioral change, because
1:13:58
Speaker 1: you know, like I actually saw what it felt like
1:14:01
Speaker 1: to feel really good, to sleep well, to wake up
1:14:04
Speaker 1: clear headed, to have energy, to like do one workout
1:14:06
Speaker 1: and then be like, you know, I could go work
1:14:07
Speaker 1: out again, or like do a workout and then play
1:14:09
Speaker 1: with your kids, or like proper human libido, or not
1:14:13
Speaker 1: being depressed or anxious or you know all those things.
1:14:16
Speaker 1: That's what makes life. We're living like training, right. It's
1:14:19
Speaker 1: like if you keep sticking your hand inside it, I
1:14:22
Speaker 1: don't know, a raccoon cage or something, and it bites
1:14:25
Speaker 1: your hand, you're gonna speaking up. He purnt up at
1:14:30
Speaker 1: raccoon cage. But I mean, I think you guys get
1:14:34
Speaker 1: it with drink, and a lot of people would drink
1:14:35
Speaker 1: all the time, don't even understand how good you could
1:14:37
Speaker 1: be when you don't drink. And I hear these people
1:14:38
Speaker 1: all the time when they cut things out of their diet.
1:14:40
Speaker 1: I never knew I could feel this good. I never
1:14:43
Speaker 1: knew I could feel as good as I felt when
1:14:44
Speaker 1: I cut bread out of my diet. I never knew
1:14:47
Speaker 1: how good I was gonna feel when I cut all
1:14:48
Speaker 1: these plants out of my diet, when I cut kill
1:14:50
Speaker 1: out of my diet. Had somebody email me that the
1:14:51
Speaker 1: other day. I never knew how good my gut, you know,
1:14:54
Speaker 1: my stomach could feel until I cut kill out of
1:14:56
Speaker 1: my diet. Mysteriously blow seriously, you know, I was trying
1:15:00
Speaker 1: to having Like I mean, I'll tell you, one of
1:15:02
Speaker 1: the best things about being eating a carnivore diet is
1:15:05
Speaker 1: you don't have to worry about farting, because that's really
1:15:07
Speaker 1: socially awkward and uncomfortable, you know, Like I mean. If
1:15:10
Speaker 1: you think a carnivore diet is hard on dating, try
1:15:12
Speaker 1: being a vegan because I was that too. I was
1:15:15
Speaker 1: a raw vegan for seven months. About you did that.
1:15:17
Speaker 1: I was a rab vegan for seven months. I was lost.
1:15:20
Speaker 1: I lost twenty five pounds of muscle mass, and all
1:15:24
Speaker 1: the people hang out with it were just like, man,
1:15:25
Speaker 1: you have the worst part. Now, what were you doing that?
1:15:27
Speaker 1: Why was I doing it? Like thirteen years ago? A
1:15:30
Speaker 1: long time ago, so you'd like, do a lot of
1:15:33
Speaker 1: guinea pigging. I love it. Now what this is I'm
1:15:36
Speaker 1: kind of annoyed by this question, but I have to
1:15:38
Speaker 1: ask you, when you're traveling, how are you how are
1:15:41
Speaker 1: you rigging up for your meals? Or it's just so
1:15:43
Speaker 1: simple because you're eating such simple things, it's not hard
1:15:45
Speaker 1: to get it. It's super simple. So we took I
1:15:47
Speaker 1: think that that's one of the reasons the desiccated stuff
1:15:49
Speaker 1: is super helpful, right, So we took the desicated stuff
1:15:51
Speaker 1: on the plane. If you don't want to travel with
1:15:52
Speaker 1: liver and spleaning pancreas, it's hard to get. I have done, yeah,
1:15:57
Speaker 1: but it's hard to get. You know. We went to
1:15:58
Speaker 1: the co op here in Bozeman and I was like,
1:16:00
Speaker 1: do you guys have any spleen? They're like no, what
1:16:02
Speaker 1: about pancreas? No? And even liver. We might have a
1:16:04
Speaker 1: little liver. I was like, I sweet, I got one
1:16:06
Speaker 1: for a cat's psychologists hanging up in that place. Maybe
1:16:11
Speaker 1: you coming the door, because like all those old signs,
1:16:14
Speaker 1: you like tear off a tab cat's cholos to get
1:16:17
Speaker 1: a shrink for your cat. I had to quit going
1:16:18
Speaker 1: into that store. But they had good meat. They had
1:16:22
Speaker 1: good meat. Maybe you can tell you that's right. Well,
1:16:24
Speaker 1: I'm waiting for the invite to dinner at Steve's house.
1:16:26
Speaker 1: I didn't get it yet. So that's that's about that.
1:16:28
Speaker 1: That's about all I got right now. But yeah, I
1:16:30
Speaker 1: mean it's it's super simple. So I think for traveling,
1:16:32
Speaker 1: I think, okay, what do I need to eat? I
1:16:34
Speaker 1: want to bring some suet, So I packed a little
1:16:36
Speaker 1: I got a little glass container. I brought some kidney fat.
1:16:38
Speaker 1: Who brings kidney fat on a plane except this guy.
1:16:40
Speaker 1: I brought some kidney fat. I brought some meat, and
1:16:43
Speaker 1: I forgot the liver. So I went to the store.
1:16:44
Speaker 1: I got some liver, and um, yeah, I brought some
1:16:47
Speaker 1: salt on the plane and I'm good. And so I
1:16:50
Speaker 1: didn't finish telling you guys what I eat in a
1:16:51
Speaker 1: day because there's one other thing, because it's so interesting.
1:16:56
Speaker 1: So for the first year and a half I did it.
1:16:57
Speaker 1: I had no carbs, right, no cars It was all keto,
1:17:00
Speaker 1: low carb. And then I started thinking about this a
1:17:02
Speaker 1: little more, and I thought, you know what, I think
1:17:04
Speaker 1: our ancestors would have had fruit occasionally seasonally. I know
1:17:07
Speaker 1: that the hods are really treasure hunty honey. Um. I
1:17:10
Speaker 1: got really interested in honey specifically, and there's really interesting
1:17:12
Speaker 1: data on honey being used to treat period on titus
1:17:16
Speaker 1: and ginger vitis. Honey is actually good for dental health
1:17:19
Speaker 1: in like the true form, which makes sense. It's a
1:17:21
Speaker 1: whole food. There's all kinds of compounds in there. And
1:17:23
Speaker 1: I was living in San Diego and I thought, you know,
1:17:24
Speaker 1: I feel a little cold sometimes I'm gonna reincorporate honey
1:17:28
Speaker 1: back in my diet and see how I feel. And
1:17:29
Speaker 1: of course, the you know part of me is like,
1:17:31
Speaker 1: I can't do that. It's it's not meat, and thought
1:17:33
Speaker 1: it's stupid to be dogmatic. Yeah, it's not a plan.
1:17:35
Speaker 1: And if vegans won't eat it, then I can eat it.
1:17:38
Speaker 1: That's the way I think about it. So I incorporated
1:17:41
Speaker 1: honey back in my diet and I really like it.
1:17:43
Speaker 1: So a lot of days I'll incorporate honey in my
1:17:45
Speaker 1: diet and that makes the whole thing seem a lot
1:17:49
Speaker 1: more appealing to me. And that's why I want you
1:17:51
Speaker 1: guys to read that chapter in the book about the
1:17:53
Speaker 1: Tier one carnivore diet where I say, hey, it's not
1:17:55
Speaker 1: about just eating meat. It's about eating meat in organs,
1:17:57
Speaker 1: but also knowing which parts of the plant are less
1:17:59
Speaker 1: tought sick. And there's a whole section of a carnivore
1:18:02
Speaker 1: ish diet in there where I say, okay, eat meat
1:18:04
Speaker 1: and organs, and then you can eat honey, and then
1:18:05
Speaker 1: like things like avocado and berries and squash. These are fruit.
1:18:09
Speaker 1: I think the fruit is the least toxic part of
1:18:12
Speaker 1: a plant. The plant is trying to get you to
1:18:13
Speaker 1: eat it most of the time. And so I think
1:18:15
Speaker 1: that generally speaking, fruit has been seasonally in our diets,
1:18:19
Speaker 1: and so berries. So when I thought about this, Okay,
1:18:21
Speaker 1: this is a version of an animal based diet. This
1:18:24
Speaker 1: is really how I want people to think about a
1:18:25
Speaker 1: carnivore ish diet, an animal based diet. And we're gonna
1:18:28
Speaker 1: make a cookbook that's based on a carnivora is diet
1:18:31
Speaker 1: next year with the same publisher, and it's the idea like, hey,
1:18:34
Speaker 1: eat animal meat and organs as a center of your diet,
1:18:36
Speaker 1: and then you can also have you can have carbohydrates
1:18:39
Speaker 1: if you want them, but eat it from the least
1:18:41
Speaker 1: toxic plant sources. Get rid of the kale and we
1:18:43
Speaker 1: can talk about why, and get rid of the seeds.
1:18:45
Speaker 1: But if you want to do things like avocado or squash,
1:18:49
Speaker 1: or berries or an apple or seasonal fruit, those are
1:18:51
Speaker 1: probably really fine for you. And that I think opens
1:18:54
Speaker 1: up the doors for a lot of people to to
1:18:56
Speaker 1: do this type of a diet. And it's the goal
1:19:00
Speaker 1: is not to be dogmatic. The goal is to help
1:19:02
Speaker 1: people get back to living well. Are you doing, honey
1:19:05
Speaker 1: right now? I do how much I do about do
1:19:09
Speaker 1: about a hundred and fifty grams of honey a day,
1:19:12
Speaker 1: which is a lot um. So a tablespoon is fifteen grahams,
1:19:18
Speaker 1: so it's about seven to ten tablespoon's day. No milk, No,
1:19:23
Speaker 1: I don't do milk. I don't do dairy. Now, A
1:19:25
Speaker 1: lot of people have trouble with dairy. An logically, I
1:19:28
Speaker 1: think our ancestors wouldn't have even a ton of milk.
1:19:30
Speaker 1: I know the mess. I eat milk, but if you
1:19:31
Speaker 1: can tolerate milk, it's an animal food, it's great. Um.
1:19:34
Speaker 1: But I have trouble with caseine and way I had
1:19:37
Speaker 1: an X amount really bad, which is the reason that
1:19:39
Speaker 1: I did a carnivore diet in the first place. You know,
1:19:41
Speaker 1: there's no ex amounts like bumpy. Yeah. Yeah, but my
1:19:45
Speaker 1: eximuma went went away completely when I did a carnivore
1:19:48
Speaker 1: diet and I tried everything else. I tried Keto and
1:19:50
Speaker 1: Paley and all this other stuff, and it couldn't It
1:19:52
Speaker 1: didn't fix it. So that was the reason I did it.
1:19:55
Speaker 1: But dairy always triggers my EXI must, so I don't
1:19:57
Speaker 1: do it. Okay, do you think if you're giving recommendations
1:20:02
Speaker 1: to people do you think that, like distilled down, is
1:20:08
Speaker 1: your message more that you need people need to add
1:20:13
Speaker 1: to their diet or they needed to take away from
1:20:17
Speaker 1: their diet. I think if you had to do one thing,
1:20:19
Speaker 1: it would be to simplify, and the one thing the
1:20:22
Speaker 1: first thing. So if you wanted to make a hierarchy, right,
1:20:23
Speaker 1: if people wanted to, If I if I were gonna
1:20:25
Speaker 1: recommend people do one thing, it's get rid of those
1:20:27
Speaker 1: vegetable oils. And this hasn't been the total focus of
1:20:30
Speaker 1: our conversation. So I think that if you're gonna do
1:20:33
Speaker 1: one thing, it would be get rid of those vegetable oils.
1:20:35
Speaker 1: And they're in a lot of things, right, So this
1:20:38
Speaker 1: is corn, canola, saf flower, sunflower, soybean oils. They're in
1:20:42
Speaker 1: a lot of foods. If you eliminate those from your
1:20:44
Speaker 1: diet and change nothing else, I think a lot of
1:20:47
Speaker 1: people will get to a better place in health. Now.
1:20:49
Speaker 1: I hope people won't stop there. I hope they will
1:20:52
Speaker 1: then add an animal meeting organs, and then I hope
1:20:55
Speaker 1: they will think about the plants they're eating and if
1:20:57
Speaker 1: they can get rid of the most toxic plants. There's
1:20:59
Speaker 1: like three apps, but that's the first step, and the
1:21:01
Speaker 1: first step is just simplify and get rid of the
1:21:03
Speaker 1: processed foods which are really full of those oils, and
1:21:05
Speaker 1: stop cooking with those oils. And part of that for
1:21:08
Speaker 1: a lot of people is also getting the best quality
1:21:11
Speaker 1: meat they can too, you know, because a lot of
1:21:14
Speaker 1: the meat that's fed corn and soy, these are not
1:21:16
Speaker 1: species appropriate diets and it can accumulate. It's what we
1:21:19
Speaker 1: know about things like pigs is that if you feed
1:21:21
Speaker 1: pigs corn and soy, their fat is going to be
1:21:23
Speaker 1: enriched in linelaic acid. And so that's probably a problem
1:21:26
Speaker 1: for a lot of people too. But first thing, cut
1:21:28
Speaker 1: out those vegetable oils and everything with them in it.
1:21:30
Speaker 1: That's higher than cutting out sugar. It is. No I'm
1:21:36
Speaker 1: not saying I want people to keep eating sugar, but
1:21:38
Speaker 1: I think I think I think that I think that
1:21:41
Speaker 1: the single greatest driver of chronic disease and metabolic dysfunction
1:21:45
Speaker 1: in humans is excess linelaic acid. And you can actually
1:21:48
Speaker 1: look at this. There's a fascinating set of graphs out there.
1:21:50
Speaker 1: You can look at human consumption of sugar and grains,
1:21:54
Speaker 1: and you can look at the rates of obesity and
1:21:57
Speaker 1: the rates of diabetes and the rates of chronic disease.
1:22:00
Speaker 1: And though if you look at those graphics, you can
1:22:02
Speaker 1: look at in from consumption of grains and sugar went
1:22:06
Speaker 1: up and sort did our consumption of vegetable oil massively,
1:22:11
Speaker 1: and then around um and rates of diabetes and obesity
1:22:16
Speaker 1: and chronic disease went up to but around between now
1:22:22
Speaker 1: rates of grain consumption and sugar have actually gone down,
1:22:25
Speaker 1: the vegetable oil has continued to rise, and we are
1:22:28
Speaker 1: still getting much fatter, much sicker, much more diabetic, and
1:22:32
Speaker 1: much worse from an autoimmune perspective. So again this is
1:22:34
Speaker 1: just all correlational sort of inference. But what you see
1:22:39
Speaker 1: here is like, huh, this is interesting, and I think, yeah,
1:22:43
Speaker 1: sugar is not a great thing for humans at all,
1:22:44
Speaker 1: and honey actually looks to behave differently than sugar in humans.
1:22:49
Speaker 1: But if you had to do one thing, it would
1:22:52
Speaker 1: be vegetable oils in my opinion, No ship real quick
1:22:55
Speaker 1: explaining what's the problem with with If you're like, what's
1:22:58
Speaker 1: the problem with Brian meat? Like if the meat is
1:23:01
Speaker 1: okay and the oil is okay, what happens when you
1:23:03
Speaker 1: get it's super hot and cook one and the other right,
1:23:06
Speaker 1: So now I think if you're gonna cook meat in oil,
1:23:10
Speaker 1: you want to do it an animal fat. Oh. Can
1:23:12
Speaker 1: I just tell you one of my new favorites. We've
1:23:14
Speaker 1: had it like three times in the last ten days.
1:23:17
Speaker 1: I raised a bunch of wild turkey thighs and legs,
1:23:20
Speaker 1: and then I've got a jar Brody's bear grease bar
1:23:23
Speaker 1: oil from last fall, and I've been just frying that.
1:23:27
Speaker 1: It's funny if i'd turkey meat in oil in bar oil. Yeah,
1:23:31
Speaker 1: it's funny because if I did it in like vegetable
1:23:33
Speaker 1: oil and peanut oil, I'd be like real careful about
1:23:35
Speaker 1: like taking the meat out and sort of like straining
1:23:38
Speaker 1: it or draining or whatever. But when I do it
1:23:40
Speaker 1: in that bear grease, I'm just like, man, I hope
1:23:42
Speaker 1: it soaks it up so that me and the kids
1:23:45
Speaker 1: are eating it, you know, because it's good. It is good,
1:23:48
Speaker 1: And so I got keep explaining a little bit better.
1:23:51
Speaker 1: I mean the same way that you say, like you
1:23:53
Speaker 1: you'd like to crisp up your Oh, I didn't know
1:23:55
Speaker 1: if you meant your drop like you're dropping a drumstick,
1:23:57
Speaker 1: like frying a drumstick, like like picked braised meat and
1:24:01
Speaker 1: then you fry it and then put it on something. Yeah,
1:24:04
Speaker 1: and what are you get into up the word again,
1:24:07
Speaker 1: you're getting all messed up on um lipid peroxide. Yeah, Okay,
1:24:13
Speaker 1: break that down for me. So it is very bad
1:24:16
Speaker 1: if maybe maybe not. So you heat it up and
1:24:20
Speaker 1: something bad happen. You heat it up at something bad happens. Now,
1:24:23
Speaker 1: humans have probably been dealing with this for a long
1:24:25
Speaker 1: long time. We know that when we eat foods there
1:24:27
Speaker 1: are compounds produced. When we heat foods and dry heated
1:24:30
Speaker 1: high temperatures, there are lots of things produced that our
1:24:33
Speaker 1: body has to kind of detoxify. Now, a lot of
1:24:36
Speaker 1: people will point to meat and say, oh, you shouldn't
1:24:38
Speaker 1: eat meat that's charged or grilled because of these compounds.
1:24:41
Speaker 1: And some of these are polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons and heterosticic
1:24:44
Speaker 1: a means, and the body has a way to deal
1:24:46
Speaker 1: with these. But the question is just how much can
1:24:49
Speaker 1: we detoxify and are we you know, are we putting
1:24:51
Speaker 1: a stress on the body. I think that most people,
1:24:54
Speaker 1: if they're healthy and have enough nutrients from good animal
1:24:57
Speaker 1: meat and oregans, can make enough lutth ione, which is
1:25:01
Speaker 1: our endogenous antioxidant. It's how it's part of how our
1:25:03
Speaker 1: body deals with this to detoxify these compounds. But as
1:25:07
Speaker 1: the astronaut, I just thought, what if I decrease them
1:25:10
Speaker 1: as low as possible in my diet? Do I feel better?
1:25:13
Speaker 1: Do my labs change? That's why I do it. I
1:25:15
Speaker 1: just want to experiment and see, like what's the end?
1:25:17
Speaker 1: You know, how do we get people there? The same
1:25:20
Speaker 1: kind of things are happen when you cook food. I
1:25:21
Speaker 1: mean when you cook plants. So coffee has heterocyclic A
1:25:25
Speaker 1: means as well, and so there's a lot even if
1:25:28
Speaker 1: you cook bread and your brown bread or your toast bread.
1:25:31
Speaker 1: There are things like Malleard products, advanced Liketion end products.
1:25:34
Speaker 1: So cooking food creates things that the body has to detoxify.
1:25:37
Speaker 1: We probably have the ability to do it somewhat. You
1:25:39
Speaker 1: just don't want to overload the system, okay, And I
1:25:42
Speaker 1: think that you're underlying health probably determines how well you're
1:25:45
Speaker 1: able to detox about that, So in my mind, I thought,
1:25:47
Speaker 1: what if I just don't get my body any of
1:25:49
Speaker 1: that or the smallest amount possible. And that's kind of
1:25:51
Speaker 1: the experiment I'm doing. I'll agree cooking a ribby and
1:25:54
Speaker 1: tallow is delicious when you get the crust on it.
1:25:57
Speaker 1: What you're talking about there sounds delicious, crispy. Things arelicious.
1:26:00
Speaker 1: And if you're gonna cook in oil, cooking animal fat,
1:26:03
Speaker 1: do not cooking vegetable oil, please. When you cook fats,
1:26:06
Speaker 1: you get what are called lipid peroxides. These are essentially
1:26:09
Speaker 1: free radicals formed by lipids. So a lipid is a
1:26:13
Speaker 1: fat molecule. And what we're talking about here now are electrons,
1:26:16
Speaker 1: and we're talking about unpaired electrons. And these molecules are reactive.
1:26:20
Speaker 1: They can move around the human body and cause damage,
1:26:23
Speaker 1: and so your body has to detoxify them. So I
1:26:25
Speaker 1: think it's just for me. It was the experiment, how
1:26:27
Speaker 1: do I get the least amount of the ease of possible?
1:26:29
Speaker 1: And then can I see in my blood work that
1:26:31
Speaker 1: things like lipid peroxides change or other markers of oxidative stress,
1:26:36
Speaker 1: you know, esoteric markers I use in medicine, like eight
1:26:38
Speaker 1: hydroxy two deoxy iguanasine, which is a marker of DNA damage,
1:26:42
Speaker 1: or malon dialdehyde, all that kind of stuff. So that's
1:26:44
Speaker 1: why I do it. Now, if if somebody came to
1:26:48
Speaker 1: me and said, am I eating too much of these,
1:26:50
Speaker 1: I'd say, well, let's just check some blood work. We
1:26:52
Speaker 1: can see you know, we can look at your oxidative stress.
1:26:55
Speaker 1: I can look at how much glue toothion you've got
1:26:57
Speaker 1: and how much of its oxidized versus reduce. So I
1:26:59
Speaker 1: could tell yeah, you know, like, oh, maybe you want
1:27:01
Speaker 1: to stop doing that as much, or maybe it just
1:27:03
Speaker 1: needs more of the nutrients that are going to allow
1:27:05
Speaker 1: your body to talk about stuff. But that's why I
1:27:07
Speaker 1: do it. Does that make sense? And I'm only not
1:27:09
Speaker 1: trying to be a party pooper, you know, talk about
1:27:12
Speaker 1: like the most boring way to eat food. I just
1:27:13
Speaker 1: think about it medically too. Remember earlier, we're talking about
1:27:26
Speaker 1: objective realities. Okay, I imagine that in the medical community,
1:27:31
Speaker 1: it's possible to draw someone's blood and then look at
1:27:36
Speaker 1: the blood do the blood work on someone, and there
1:27:39
Speaker 1: probably isn't there's probably like an academic consensus about what
1:27:46
Speaker 1: the markers in there, whether that's a healthy person or not.
1:27:49
Speaker 1: Is that true or not true? Generally? Is there something
1:27:52
Speaker 1: still to argue about. There are a few things to
1:27:55
Speaker 1: argue about, but percent of it is like, yeah, we
1:27:58
Speaker 1: can look at inflammatory markers, we can look at markers
1:28:00
Speaker 1: of oxidation, lipid, peroxydes, all that kind of stuff. Yes, Okay,
1:28:03
Speaker 1: so if we drew yours. Let's say I drew yours
1:28:06
Speaker 1: and I took it and just showed I drew your
1:28:08
Speaker 1: blood and had your blood work drawn up, and I
1:28:10
Speaker 1: took it and showed it to It's just a random
1:28:13
Speaker 1: doctor coming down the road. Yeah, I'd be like, hey, man,
1:28:16
Speaker 1: what what's up? What do you think when you look
1:28:18
Speaker 1: at this right? What would they be able to tell me?
1:28:20
Speaker 1: Would they say, man, oh, that's really surprising to see
1:28:25
Speaker 1: such low or such high this and that they would
1:28:29
Speaker 1: just say that guy looks really healthy for the most part,
1:28:31
Speaker 1: except for one thing. And we can get into that
1:28:33
Speaker 1: if you want, Like, well, I mean, what is the
1:28:35
Speaker 1: one thing? The one thing is l d L cholesterol,
1:28:37
Speaker 1: which is a whole rabbit hole to go down. So
1:28:40
Speaker 1: but that would pop out to them, that would pop
1:28:42
Speaker 1: out to them for sure, you have a lot of it.
1:28:44
Speaker 1: I have a lot of l d L in my body.
1:28:46
Speaker 1: I do, I do, And everybody's been told that L
1:28:48
Speaker 1: d L is bad for you. But there's a whole
1:28:50
Speaker 1: chapter in my book kind of breaking down that myth
1:28:52
Speaker 1: and talking about how the lipid hypothesis is really wrong
1:28:55
Speaker 1: in my opinion and widely challenged. So we can go
1:28:58
Speaker 1: down the shot they would see or they'd be like, yeah,
1:29:01
Speaker 1: the gala's great. Yeah, if you don't show my LDL.
1:29:03
Speaker 1: If you if you just cover up L d L
1:29:04
Speaker 1: and look at it, they be like, Wow, there's no inflammation.
1:29:07
Speaker 1: His kidneys look fine, his liver looks fine. He's got
1:29:09
Speaker 1: plenty of vitamin markers. He's got his vitamin D is high. Man,
1:29:11
Speaker 1: it's testosterones high. Everything, that's good. What am I? What
1:29:14
Speaker 1: am I looking at this guy? Like? How am I
1:29:16
Speaker 1: looking at here? And then it showing the LDL and
1:29:18
Speaker 1: they kind of like fall out of their chair and
1:29:19
Speaker 1: they'd say, what, he's gonna die. He's gonna he's gonna die.
1:29:22
Speaker 1: He needs a statin. Yeah, yeah, I say he needs
1:29:26
Speaker 1: med's yeah. Absolutely. And I can tell you the story.
1:29:28
Speaker 1: It's a pretty interesting story. But you don't need one.
1:29:30
Speaker 1: I definitely don't. So when my dad, so I'm forty three,
1:29:35
Speaker 1: When my dad was forty three, he had a heart attack.
1:29:38
Speaker 1: So I have a primary relative who had an early
1:29:41
Speaker 1: onset corner artery disease. Right, I've had a high quote
1:29:46
Speaker 1: LDL low density lip, a protein which is colloquially known
1:29:49
Speaker 1: as bad cholesterol, which is totally the wrong. Yeah. Yeah,
1:29:54
Speaker 1: I've had a high l d L four probably three
1:29:57
Speaker 1: plus years, I mean the whole time I've been doing
1:29:58
Speaker 1: a carnivore diet. My l d l's and over two
1:30:00
Speaker 1: hundred and the last one I got was very high.
1:30:04
Speaker 1: And so we can go down rabbit holes. This is
1:30:06
Speaker 1: a very complex discussion about why l d L goes
1:30:08
Speaker 1: up and down. It probably has to do with ratio.
1:30:10
Speaker 1: Is a saturated fat unsaturated fat in the human body,
1:30:13
Speaker 1: and that goes back to previous discussions about whether saturated
1:30:16
Speaker 1: fat is actually bad for humans. I don't believe it
1:30:18
Speaker 1: is at all. It's part of something we've been eating forever.
1:30:21
Speaker 1: But if you just pause there in my story, well
1:30:23
Speaker 1: I'll tell you the rest of the story. So I've
1:30:25
Speaker 1: had a high LDL for over two years, and because
1:30:28
Speaker 1: it was so high, I thought, oh, this is a
1:30:29
Speaker 1: great opportunity to illustrate something. So I had what's called
1:30:32
Speaker 1: a coronary artery calcium score. They do a CT scan
1:30:35
Speaker 1: of your heart and they look for calcium in your arteries,
1:30:37
Speaker 1: which is calcified black. Not a perfect test, but pretty teeth. Yes, exceptually,
1:30:42
Speaker 1: and except it ends up in the heart arteries. And
1:30:44
Speaker 1: this is sort of telling you you have atheros school roses.
1:30:46
Speaker 1: This is the people to people worry about the plaque
1:30:48
Speaker 1: that ruptures in the arteries. Is this plaque? Right? So
1:30:52
Speaker 1: I have zero zero, And so in talking to cardiologists
1:30:57
Speaker 1: and in talking to cardiac radiologists, if you showed them
1:31:00
Speaker 1: my blood work, they would say, oh, yeah, that guy
1:31:02
Speaker 1: has a family history and his dad who had a
1:31:04
Speaker 1: heart attack at his age, and his l d L.
1:31:06
Speaker 1: Right now, my l d L is five and thirty
1:31:08
Speaker 1: four milligrams for desci leader. Uh, most doctors want to
1:31:11
Speaker 1: see it under a hundred. So I'm like superstar and
1:31:14
Speaker 1: l d L I'm like massively high. And they would say, oh, yeah,
1:31:17
Speaker 1: that guy is gonna have plaque. I have zero plaque.
1:31:19
Speaker 1: And there are so many stories like mine about this.
1:31:22
Speaker 1: Now you could say it's not a perfect test, not
1:31:23
Speaker 1: a perfect test, but it's pretty darned sensitive for that
1:31:26
Speaker 1: kind of plaque. And I have a primary relative a
1:31:28
Speaker 1: heart attack in my age. Now I'll just keep getting
1:31:30
Speaker 1: them and showing people that at zero. But it challenges
1:31:32
Speaker 1: the idea that l d L cholesterol equals heart attacks,
1:31:34
Speaker 1: and I challenge this broadly in the book. This is
1:31:37
Speaker 1: such a big misunderstanding, and it's a lot of the
1:31:40
Speaker 1: reason that vegetable oils get recommended to us as healthy
1:31:43
Speaker 1: because vegetable oils lower L d L. Saturated fat raises
1:31:47
Speaker 1: L d L. And yet what do we know about
1:31:50
Speaker 1: vegetable oils. We know they're very unhealthy for people, And
1:31:53
Speaker 1: what do we know about saturated fat, Well, it's pretty
1:31:55
Speaker 1: darned healthy for people. There's a really famous trial called
1:31:58
Speaker 1: the Minnesota Cornery Experiment which was done in nineteen seventy three,
1:32:04
Speaker 1: and they took I think it was over nine thousand people.
1:32:07
Speaker 1: This is a randomized, blinded study. It's interventional study, this
1:32:10
Speaker 1: is not epidemiology. It took over nine thousand people in Minnesota,
1:32:14
Speaker 1: and they put half of them on high saturated fat
1:32:17
Speaker 1: diets or higher saturated fat, and another half on higher
1:32:21
Speaker 1: polyN saturated fat from vegetable oil. And that trial went
1:32:24
Speaker 1: five years, and at the end of the trial, the
1:32:26
Speaker 1: people who had more polyan saturated fat had higher rates
1:32:29
Speaker 1: of death from cancer, heart disease, and overall all cause mortality.
1:32:33
Speaker 1: They clearly died more of all sorts of badness when
1:32:36
Speaker 1: they had more polyan saturated fats. It's a huge study,
1:32:38
Speaker 1: it's very well done. It's sort of like cut and
1:32:40
Speaker 1: dry vegetable oils are horrible for humans, and these are
1:32:44
Speaker 1: the oils that are cardiologists will tell us to eat
1:32:47
Speaker 1: because they lower L d L, and our framework for
1:32:50
Speaker 1: cardiovascular health is entirely l d L centric, totally eldal centric.
1:32:54
Speaker 1: If it raises LDL, it is bad. If it lowers LDEL,
1:32:57
Speaker 1: it's good. Except if you actually dig into the medical
1:32:59
Speaker 1: literature and this gets to be a little les oteric,
1:33:01
Speaker 1: and you look at this. What you find is that
1:33:03
Speaker 1: when you give someone polyon saturated fats like linoleic acid,
1:33:06
Speaker 1: like vegetable oils, they're LDL goes down, but they're oxidized.
1:33:10
Speaker 1: L d L goes up, and another marker called LP
1:33:13
Speaker 1: little A, which is a marker for oxidation and LDL
1:33:15
Speaker 1: also goes up. What we now know is that it's
1:33:18
Speaker 1: not so much about the L d L that you have,
1:33:20
Speaker 1: it's about how much of that is suffering oxidation. There's
1:33:22
Speaker 1: that word again, so oxidation. That's the kind of stuff
1:33:25
Speaker 1: I'm worried about with lipid peroxides and free radicals, and
1:33:28
Speaker 1: polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons is oxidative stress. We're talking about the
1:33:31
Speaker 1: movement of electrons, So you really don't want your l
1:33:34
Speaker 1: d L to be oxidized. And when you give someone
1:33:37
Speaker 1: vegetable oil, more LD'LL gets oxidized. The overall amount of
1:33:40
Speaker 1: l DL goes down, but more LDL gets oxidized. So
1:33:43
Speaker 1: this is one of the sort of last or it's
1:33:47
Speaker 1: just not even a last one. It's just a very
1:33:49
Speaker 1: widely held belief that needs to die because it's just
1:33:52
Speaker 1: wrong and it's hurting people. And in the book, I
1:33:55
Speaker 1: kind of break this down. There's lots of other studies
1:33:57
Speaker 1: that show that more l d L does not always
1:34:01
Speaker 1: equal more cornary arter disease. And it's not the fact
1:34:04
Speaker 1: that LDL just goes into your arteries and causes plaque.
1:34:06
Speaker 1: That doesn't make any sense. Because LDL load density liver
1:34:09
Speaker 1: protein is a boat in your body. It's like a
1:34:12
Speaker 1: bus and moves things around the body. It's valuable for humans.
1:34:15
Speaker 1: It moves steroid backbone molecules to your testicles, to the ovaries,
1:34:19
Speaker 1: to the adrenal glands, to your brain to make all
1:34:21
Speaker 1: the hormones that make us human beings. We need. This molecule,
1:34:25
Speaker 1: l d L and HDL it's counterpart, also play a
1:34:28
Speaker 1: role in the immune response. If you talk about kids
1:34:32
Speaker 1: who don't have enough l d L, they get sick
1:34:34
Speaker 1: way more often. There's a genetic condition with a mutation
1:34:38
Speaker 1: in the enzyme that makes cholesterol. Now, cholesterol is a
1:34:41
Speaker 1: steroid backbone molecule that gets packaged into the l d
1:34:44
Speaker 1: L particle. L d L is a bus that carries triglycerides,
1:34:47
Speaker 1: which are fat molecules, and cholesterol, and so l d
1:34:51
Speaker 1: L and cholesterol are sort of synonymous colloquially, but that's
1:34:54
Speaker 1: not really the correct terminology. Cholesterol is a steroid backbone
1:34:57
Speaker 1: molecule that gets made by our body and packaged into
1:35:00
Speaker 1: l d L. There's a genetic condition called Smith Lemley
1:35:03
Speaker 1: op Pits syndrome in which kids can't make or humans
1:35:06
Speaker 1: can't make LDL or they can't make cholesterol, which results
1:35:10
Speaker 1: in very low levels of l d L. A lot
1:35:12
Speaker 1: of these kids die in utero, and those that are
1:35:14
Speaker 1: born have pretty seriously bad medical conditions. They have a
1:35:18
Speaker 1: lot of times mental retardation, they have recurring infections, and
1:35:21
Speaker 1: the way they are treated is they are given egg
1:35:23
Speaker 1: yolks they are given lots and lots of egg yolks,
1:35:26
Speaker 1: which are super rich in cholesterol. So we give kids
1:35:29
Speaker 1: back cholesterol and they do better when they can't make it.
1:35:32
Speaker 1: And yet we are told by the medical establishment that
1:35:34
Speaker 1: this molecule, this l d L cholesterol molecule, or cholesterol
1:35:38
Speaker 1: in general, are trying to kill us. And it kind
1:35:41
Speaker 1: of goes back to this theme that we've been talking
1:35:43
Speaker 1: about throughout this podcast. Why would something that has been
1:35:46
Speaker 1: an essential part of our evolution suddenly be bad for us,
1:35:49
Speaker 1: whether it's eating me and organs, or whether it's a
1:35:52
Speaker 1: molecule that's essential to human health, why would that be
1:35:55
Speaker 1: bad for us? We have to rethink these paradigms, but
1:35:58
Speaker 1: so much of medicine move so lowly. It's like the Titanic.
1:36:01
Speaker 1: You just can't change these paradigms. They're just so bent
1:36:04
Speaker 1: on it. But that's why I do the work I do.
1:36:06
Speaker 1: L d L is not the enemy. The enemy is
1:36:09
Speaker 1: the underlying metabolic dysfunction and or it's synonymous with insulin
1:36:13
Speaker 1: resistance or pre diabetes. That really lights the LDL on fire,
1:36:16
Speaker 1: but it didn't cause the blaze. So at a very
1:36:19
Speaker 1: broad strokes level, I asked people to think about it
1:36:21
Speaker 1: like this. Imagine l d L like wood in your garage.
1:36:25
Speaker 1: You're not gonna get spontaneous conduction into that would. You
1:36:27
Speaker 1: have to have a spark, And that spark is underlying
1:36:29
Speaker 1: metabolic disfunction. Without a spark, that l d L is
1:36:33
Speaker 1: actually just valuable because you can build a house out
1:36:35
Speaker 1: of it. You could build a house or a cabin,
1:36:37
Speaker 1: or you could build a treehouse for your kids out
1:36:39
Speaker 1: of that wood in your garage. But if you get
1:36:41
Speaker 1: gasoline there and you light a fire, that that wood's
1:36:43
Speaker 1: gonna go up. So because the LDL is involved in
1:36:45
Speaker 1: a plaque, doesn't mean that l d L caused the plaque.
1:36:48
Speaker 1: It's the spark. And so what is the spark. The
1:36:50
Speaker 1: spark is metabolic dysfunction. How does metabolicas function come about?
1:36:55
Speaker 1: Linelaic acid and vegetable oils explain to me as though
1:37:00
Speaker 1: five years old katosis. Okay, the keto diet. So this
1:37:05
Speaker 1: is a completely different we're going off topic. Oh no, yeah,
1:37:07
Speaker 1: we're going we're going. Yeah, okay, So I'm being mindful
1:37:10
Speaker 1: of where we're at, where we gotta get so we're
1:37:12
Speaker 1: pos if I walk out of here. Oh no, there's
1:37:14
Speaker 1: a pause, because I thought we were like I thought
1:37:16
Speaker 1: that that felt like a great summation. I just I
1:37:18
Speaker 1: just thought you maybe you ask that questions. Okay, No,
1:37:20
Speaker 1: I never knew any of that stuff because over here
1:37:22
Speaker 1: shaking his head like, well, you know, like I know,
1:37:24
Speaker 1: I love it. It's just I'm gonna ask to listen
1:37:26
Speaker 1: to this podcast again too, because there's just a lot
1:37:29
Speaker 1: of words that you know, this is the first time
1:37:31
Speaker 1: I've heard them, right, So let me know if you
1:37:33
Speaker 1: want to clarify them, and I'll do my best. I
1:37:37
Speaker 1: think we can move on. I want to go. We're
1:37:39
Speaker 1: talking about Keto. Yeah, we got a little checklists and
1:37:42
Speaker 1: stuff we got um Janni weirdly put one down and
1:37:45
Speaker 1: took it away. Oh no, it's back again. What what
1:37:48
Speaker 1: did I take away? Oh no, I'm still there. Sorry, Okay,
1:37:52
Speaker 1: ketosis like I'm five, Okay, like I'm five. Were here
1:37:56
Speaker 1: a lot these days about the Keto diet. Going into
1:38:00
Speaker 1: like going into katosa sounds like a bad thing, would
1:38:02
Speaker 1: have like something bad is happening to you. Traditionally people
1:38:05
Speaker 1: have thought about keatos is a bad thing, but I
1:38:07
Speaker 1: don't think it is at all. I think it's it's
1:38:08
Speaker 1: our bodies very precisely evolved defense mechanism against oarvation. It's
1:38:15
Speaker 1: basically how your body uses stored fat as fuel. So
1:38:19
Speaker 1: you have a couple of gas tanks in your body.
1:38:22
Speaker 1: You're like a car with two gas tanks. One gas
1:38:24
Speaker 1: tank is called glycogen, it's in your liver and your muscles,
1:38:27
Speaker 1: and the other gas tank is called fat. And generally speaking,
1:38:31
Speaker 1: if humans are fat, they can survive a long winter.
1:38:33
Speaker 1: You've got stored fat. We don't want to be extra fat,
1:38:36
Speaker 1: but we've all got a couple of pounds, many pounds
1:38:38
Speaker 1: of fat in our bodies, so that if we don't eat,
1:38:40
Speaker 1: or we don't have a successful hunt, we can turn
1:38:42
Speaker 1: that into fuels. For one second, is it true that
1:38:46
Speaker 1: that that fat people um stay warm better? I think thermodynamically, yeah,
1:38:52
Speaker 1: it makes sense. I mean just from a I mean
1:38:54
Speaker 1: whenever I've been out surfing in the ocean and there's
1:38:56
Speaker 1: fat guys out there, they're often way way way warmer
1:38:59
Speaker 1: than I am. I mean it's like seal blubber right,
1:39:03
Speaker 1: Like it's insulation because like people are like, oh, yeah,
1:39:05
Speaker 1: you're cold because you're skinny, it's possible. Am I am cold? Well?
1:39:08
Speaker 1: And sometimes whop sometimes who get cold because they their
1:39:11
Speaker 1: thyroid doesn't work. But you know, all things being equal,
1:39:14
Speaker 1: you know, if we have equivalent thyroid function and equivalent
1:39:16
Speaker 1: baseline metabolism, which is how you generate heat, because your
1:39:19
Speaker 1: body can generate its own heat with brown fat, things
1:39:22
Speaker 1: like that, mitochondrial uncoupling, the you can you know, if
1:39:27
Speaker 1: you put on a bunch of layers, you would be warmer.
1:39:29
Speaker 1: You know, hold on, do you understand what mitochondrial uncoupling is.
1:39:33
Speaker 1: Nobody understand if I put on a few layers, I'll
1:39:35
Speaker 1: be warmer. You know that if you put on a
1:39:37
Speaker 1: neoprene suit, you'd be warmer. So that's what it's doing.
1:39:39
Speaker 1: It's just like insulation. Now I'll get back into the keyto.
1:39:43
Speaker 1: So keyto. We have two energies ones in your muscle livers,
1:39:47
Speaker 1: ones in your fat, ones in your fat. And the
1:39:48
Speaker 1: way that you access your fat is through keytnes. In
1:39:52
Speaker 1: order to pull that fuel and burn it by the
1:39:53
Speaker 1: rest of your body. You turn that fat into keytnes,
1:39:56
Speaker 1: so you can do something called beta oxidation. And the
1:39:59
Speaker 1: way that you move that fat around your body is
1:40:01
Speaker 1: and keytones. It's one way that it happens. So keytones
1:40:03
Speaker 1: are just an alternative fuel that your body uses when
1:40:06
Speaker 1: you don't have enough carbohydrates or when you're starving in general.
1:40:09
Speaker 1: And that's essentially how it happens. You use that fat,
1:40:11
Speaker 1: you turn it in key tones. Those keytones move around
1:40:14
Speaker 1: the body and they get turned back into substrate that
1:40:16
Speaker 1: your body can use to burn. And the goal being
1:40:19
Speaker 1: to get rid of the fat, not necessarily to get
1:40:21
Speaker 1: rid of I mean, the goal of ketogenic diets is, yes,
1:40:24
Speaker 1: to get rid of the fat, but you can get
1:40:25
Speaker 1: rid of fat without being ketogenic, So what is the goal?
1:40:29
Speaker 1: Ketogenic diets were originally developed for kids with seizures because
1:40:33
Speaker 1: they really yeah, because they realized medically, that's why they
1:40:36
Speaker 1: were developed. Humans have always been in ketosis. If you're
1:40:39
Speaker 1: out hunting and you don't have it, you don't eat
1:40:41
Speaker 1: anything for twenty four hours or seventy two hours, you're
1:40:44
Speaker 1: going into keytosis because your body is gonna use them.
1:40:47
Speaker 1: Everybody that fasts it goes into keytosis. Yeah, and our
1:40:50
Speaker 1: ancestors definitely had periods where they didn't have any substantially
1:40:53
Speaker 1: meaning you're tapping into body fat. You're tapping into body fat,
1:40:56
Speaker 1: and it's not you can also eat but if you
1:40:57
Speaker 1: don't get enough calories because your body has It's like
1:41:00
Speaker 1: you have a car. That car needs a certain amount
1:41:02
Speaker 1: of energy to run every day. The lights in this studio,
1:41:05
Speaker 1: you have to put energy into those lights. You have
1:41:07
Speaker 1: to put energy into this brain, these eyeballs. Everything in
1:41:09
Speaker 1: your body needs energy. So you if you only eat
1:41:13
Speaker 1: calories a day, how does your body make up the difference.
1:41:15
Speaker 1: It makes up the difference by pulling it from fat
1:41:16
Speaker 1: once it pulls out of glycogen the first gas tank.
1:41:19
Speaker 1: Your body uses glycogen generally speaking, and then it goes
1:41:22
Speaker 1: into fat once you exhaust the glycogen. So for most
1:41:25
Speaker 1: people it takes about twenty four hours to exhaust the
1:41:28
Speaker 1: glycogen and then your body switches over to burning fat
1:41:31
Speaker 1: and making it in ketones. Some people have less the glycogen,
1:41:34
Speaker 1: but if you don't eat carbohydrates, your body doesn't really
1:41:37
Speaker 1: make as much glycogen. That's a broad stroke statement because
1:41:42
Speaker 1: it's not entirely true, but in broad strokes, that's what
1:41:44
Speaker 1: we're talking about, that you have less stored carbohydrate when
1:41:47
Speaker 1: you are in ketoses, and that's then it puts you
1:41:49
Speaker 1: into catos is quicker quicker or you stay in ketosis
1:41:53
Speaker 1: long term because generally speaking, we have thought about ketoses
1:41:57
Speaker 1: as starvation or not eating. But you can eat food
1:42:00
Speaker 1: would and still be in ketosis if you don't eat carbohydrates.
1:42:02
Speaker 1: Depending on the ratio of protein and fat. If you
1:42:05
Speaker 1: eat too much protein, you won't be in ketosis because
1:42:07
Speaker 1: your body can turn protein into glucose, right, But if
1:42:11
Speaker 1: you eat a lot of fat and a small amount
1:42:13
Speaker 1: of protein or a modernmount of protein, you can get
1:42:15
Speaker 1: into ketosis. Now what we know is is there a benefit?
1:42:20
Speaker 1: Is there a benefit to being in ketosis besides the
1:42:23
Speaker 1: fact besides the fact that you're diminishing fat, Like, what
1:42:27
Speaker 1: are you really getting from it? There are absolutely benefits
1:42:30
Speaker 1: to being in ketosis, but that doesn't mean you should
1:42:31
Speaker 1: be in it all the time. So it's kind of
1:42:35
Speaker 1: this evolutionary switch. We certainly would have had it occasionally.
1:42:38
Speaker 1: At a broad level, things change in your genetics. Different
1:42:42
Speaker 1: genes get turned on and off when you're a ketosis
1:42:44
Speaker 1: because these ketone molecules there are two major ketone molecules
1:42:48
Speaker 1: in your body. These ketone molecules affect which genes get
1:42:51
Speaker 1: turned on and off. And you'll here we will talk
1:42:54
Speaker 1: about this as quotes cellular house cleaning, and so what
1:42:57
Speaker 1: your body does is auto fogy. I don't know if
1:42:59
Speaker 1: you guys have heard that war. Cellular house cleaning, it
1:43:01
Speaker 1: means eating yourself. So it cleans up old, dead, kind
1:43:05
Speaker 1: of broken proteins and cells. When you're in that autophagy
1:43:08
Speaker 1: state and when you are eating less carbohydrates or when
1:43:12
Speaker 1: you are fasting, is when your body kind of goes
1:43:15
Speaker 1: toward auto It's a balance between building and tearing down.
1:43:19
Speaker 1: Talk about doing a cleanse yes and no, is it clean?
1:43:23
Speaker 1: And what? Well, there's a lot of stuff to clean.
1:43:25
Speaker 1: I mean there are there's a lot of cellular components
1:43:27
Speaker 1: for humans to clean, and we need to do this occasionally.
1:43:30
Speaker 1: And your body has mechanisms the kind of clean house.
1:43:32
Speaker 1: Just like your house gets dirty whether you have kids
1:43:35
Speaker 1: or not. If you have kids, you know, your house
1:43:36
Speaker 1: just gets dirty by itself because of the kids. And
1:43:40
Speaker 1: even if you don't have kids, your house still gets dirty.
1:43:42
Speaker 1: This is entropy. Things break, they kind of go wrong.
1:43:45
Speaker 1: Your body needs time to do this cellular house cleaning,
1:43:48
Speaker 1: and this happens when you are fasting or when you
1:43:50
Speaker 1: can enable your body to do it. When you have
1:43:51
Speaker 1: a caloric deficit. So like I said, if you have
1:43:55
Speaker 1: if you have a baseline requirement for calories a day,
1:43:58
Speaker 1: or two thousand calories a day, and you only eat
1:44:00
Speaker 1: eight hundred, your body is gonna make up the rest
1:44:02
Speaker 1: by burning glycogen or by burning stored fat. And when
1:44:05
Speaker 1: you are in that state, when you were in a
1:44:07
Speaker 1: calorically deficient state, your body does this house cleaning state,
1:44:10
Speaker 1: this auto fog that's been associated with a lot of
1:44:12
Speaker 1: good things and humans, a lot of better outcomes and
1:44:15
Speaker 1: all kinds of things. So it's helpful, but you can
1:44:17
Speaker 1: over use it. It's something we should cycle in and
1:44:19
Speaker 1: out of, and it doesn't have to be complex. This
1:44:21
Speaker 1: is the way it always would have been. You don't
1:44:23
Speaker 1: get an animal every day you go hunting. Our ancestors
1:44:25
Speaker 1: didn't either. There were times they were fasting, there were
1:44:27
Speaker 1: times they had caloric deficits, and they were times they
1:44:30
Speaker 1: feasted and they had caloric excess. It's built into our physiology.
1:44:34
Speaker 1: The problem is that we eat every day. A lot
1:44:37
Speaker 1: of people eat every day and they have caloric excess
1:44:38
Speaker 1: every single day. They never do time restricted feeding. Remember
1:44:41
Speaker 1: earlier when I was talking about I was talking about
1:44:43
Speaker 1: my diet, and I eat two meals a day. I
1:44:46
Speaker 1: have a time restricted feeding window. That's just something I
1:44:49
Speaker 1: leverage most days where I eat breakfast in a late
1:44:51
Speaker 1: lunch and then all fast about sixteen hours every day,
1:44:53
Speaker 1: and I wake up in ketosis even though I'm eating
1:44:55
Speaker 1: honey right, So even though I'm getting hy grams of carbohydrates,
1:45:00
Speaker 1: I'm using my liver glycogen. My body is using stored
1:45:02
Speaker 1: fat to make keytones. But keytones are beneficial for humans
1:45:06
Speaker 1: and that they change things, and it's valuable, but it shouldn't.
1:45:08
Speaker 1: I don't think you should happen all the time, and
1:45:11
Speaker 1: so it should be sicklic and so the keyto genic
1:45:12
Speaker 1: diet is leveraging a lot of these ideas. But you
1:45:15
Speaker 1: don't have to be keyto to get into keytosis. You
1:45:17
Speaker 1: can eat carbohydrates and just fast, or you can eat
1:45:20
Speaker 1: carbohydrates and just do a calorie restricted diet on some days.
1:45:25
Speaker 1: Does that make sense? So, but it is valuable I
1:45:28
Speaker 1: think for humans to go into that state of caloric
1:45:31
Speaker 1: deficiency one way or another. The key to diet just
1:45:34
Speaker 1: makes it long term for people because they don't eat carps.
1:45:36
Speaker 1: I think there are downsides to that as well, um
1:45:39
Speaker 1: and we can talk about those if you want, uh,
1:45:43
Speaker 1: do you believe? Do you ever use the term fad diet?
1:45:48
Speaker 1: I mean, not for a carnivore diet. I've heard the term,
1:45:50
Speaker 1: but I had a friend one time that was on
1:45:54
Speaker 1: a diet where you were on a diet six days
1:45:56
Speaker 1: a week and then you had a cheap day, right.
1:45:59
Speaker 1: And I'm member when every dude that lived in certain
1:46:05
Speaker 1: towns where I hang out, like for instance, remember when
1:46:07
Speaker 1: like every dude in Miles City was on the Atkins diet.
1:46:11
Speaker 1: But they're not now, Okay, you're about like the Keto diet.
1:46:16
Speaker 1: And I'm assuming that soon people will not beyond the
1:46:20
Speaker 1: keyto diet just because the ebb and flow of diets.
1:46:23
Speaker 1: Like where does the carnivore diet fit into this? Like
1:46:27
Speaker 1: will it have it? Does it have a life expectancy?
1:46:31
Speaker 1: I hope not? And I hope that thinking outside of
1:46:34
Speaker 1: the box a little bit and not making it dogmatic
1:46:37
Speaker 1: will will give it that that that absence or will
1:46:41
Speaker 1: exempt it from a life expectancy. It's more of a lifestyle,
1:46:44
Speaker 1: and I hope I've done a decent job of helping
1:46:46
Speaker 1: people understand that. It's it's just the same asking the question,
1:46:50
Speaker 1: what do our ancestors do, and how do we to
1:46:52
Speaker 1: thrive to lifestyle. It's not a this diet or that diet.
1:46:55
Speaker 1: It's like, what are the foods that nourish us? What
1:46:57
Speaker 1: are the least toxic plants? How do we feel as
1:46:59
Speaker 1: good as we and as humans? That's my idea. What
1:47:01
Speaker 1: the carnin word? I You gotta call it something, right.
1:47:03
Speaker 1: I wish, you know, you could call it the carnin
1:47:05
Speaker 1: ward lifestyle, but people wouldn't understand what it was. But
1:47:07
Speaker 1: that's the way I think about it. It's just asking
1:47:09
Speaker 1: questions as a physician, as an outdoorsman, as somebody who
1:47:13
Speaker 1: likes to go run in the mountains and hunt. How
1:47:14
Speaker 1: do I get to do these things as well as
1:47:16
Speaker 1: I can? How do I help my patients and my clients?
1:47:19
Speaker 1: And what our ancestors do? Those are the questions that
1:47:21
Speaker 1: are most interesting to me. So I don't want it
1:47:23
Speaker 1: to have that and I certainly didn't make it up.
1:47:24
Speaker 1: I mean, I think our answers have been eating this
1:47:26
Speaker 1: way for a long time, and there's plenty of tribes.
1:47:28
Speaker 1: There's an Amazonian tribe called the Kayoe Menno who eat
1:47:30
Speaker 1: a lot of this way. They eat animal meeting organs
1:47:32
Speaker 1: and fruit when it's seasonal. Indigenous people don't eat vegetables
1:47:36
Speaker 1: like we think they do. They kind of get that stems, roots, seeds,
1:47:40
Speaker 1: and leaves, especially the stems, leaves and seeds, we're not
1:47:45
Speaker 1: really good human food. They're not very calorically dense. A
1:47:47
Speaker 1: lot of the time, I got a lot of toxins.
1:47:49
Speaker 1: So that's the idea there. So it's not intended to
1:47:51
Speaker 1: be a fad diet. And I've never been a super
1:47:54
Speaker 1: fan of the cheat day idea either, because it doesn't
1:47:57
Speaker 1: work human I saw the cheat day get abused. Yeah. Yeah,
1:48:01
Speaker 1: because look, I mean a lot of the a lot
1:48:03
Speaker 1: of people who are finding benefits with the carnivore cheesecake factory, right,
1:48:08
Speaker 1: they're finding benefits from an autoimmune perspective. And that's what's
1:48:11
Speaker 1: so interesting to me about it. A lot of the
1:48:12
Speaker 1: diseases we see in Western society or today are autoimmune lupus,
1:48:15
Speaker 1: show grins um, you know, autoimmune thyroid itis, all this
1:48:19
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. I mean, X and my like I had,
1:48:21
Speaker 1: these are autoimmune diseases. Our immune system is overactivated. There's
1:48:24
Speaker 1: something going on here, and the immune system has a
1:48:26
Speaker 1: longer memory than seven days. We know this with things
1:48:28
Speaker 1: like celiact disease or gluten intolerance. So if you really
1:48:31
Speaker 1: want your immune system to calm down, you gotta keep
1:48:33
Speaker 1: you gotta prevent, you know, exposing it to foods that
1:48:38
Speaker 1: are going to trigger it every seven days. A lot
1:48:40
Speaker 1: of people think about diets and food just from a
1:48:42
Speaker 1: weight loss perspective, and that's why I think a carnival
1:48:44
Speaker 1: diet is different. We're thinking about things in terms of
1:48:46
Speaker 1: human health and how we can help people live in
1:48:47
Speaker 1: the most quality lives. Weight loss is secondary, but Atkins
1:48:51
Speaker 1: was all about weight loss. All these diets are about
1:48:53
Speaker 1: weight loss, weight loss and how you look as a human.
1:48:56
Speaker 1: I'm more interested in how Yeah, that's a good point, man,
1:48:58
Speaker 1: I forgot about that. It was like it wasn't like
1:49:00
Speaker 1: optimal performance. It was aesthetic, right, aesthetic. I'm more interested
1:49:04
Speaker 1: in how you feel, how you how you how your
1:49:07
Speaker 1: mood is, how well you think, how poised you are,
1:49:11
Speaker 1: how emotionally calm you are with your kids and your
1:49:13
Speaker 1: wife or your husband or your partner. You know, like
1:49:15
Speaker 1: quality of life. And I think that if you do
1:49:17
Speaker 1: that you'll look good too. That's like a bonus. But
1:49:20
Speaker 1: I'm not going to sacrifice nutrition and optimal human health
1:49:24
Speaker 1: at the expense of somebody looking good. M hmm. Yeah.
1:49:27
Speaker 1: And weight Watch is probably the most the most famous
1:49:29
Speaker 1: diet ever and it's right in its name, right, and
1:49:32
Speaker 1: that's exactly what it's focused on. It's focused on aesthetics
1:49:35
Speaker 1: and weight loss. That cheat Day diet was that way
1:49:37
Speaker 1: too write with no attention to human health. I don't
1:49:42
Speaker 1: know what it was called the cheat day. I ain't
1:49:45
Speaker 1: a lot of them have that. Tim Ferris had a
1:49:47
Speaker 1: cheat day, I know when he talked about his Way eight.
1:49:51
Speaker 1: But Paleo sounds pretty similar to this, right, I mean
1:49:55
Speaker 1: they're always talking about eating with the ancestors eight, right,
1:49:58
Speaker 1: is there a big difference? There is a big difference.
1:50:00
Speaker 1: It asks the same questions. It just answers the question differently.
1:50:04
Speaker 1: It's saying, what are our ancestors eat? And actually, you
1:50:07
Speaker 1: know what's funny is I had I'm good friends with
1:50:08
Speaker 1: Rob Wolf who wrote the Paleo Solution, and Lauren Cordaine
1:50:11
Speaker 1: who wrote the Paleo Diet. I've had them both of
1:50:13
Speaker 1: my podcast, and I think as we start to think
1:50:15
Speaker 1: about this more, I love that question, how to our
1:50:18
Speaker 1: ancestors eat? I just have a different answer and My
1:50:20
Speaker 1: answer says, leafy greens and seeds hate you and don't
1:50:23
Speaker 1: want to get eaten. Kale doesn't love you back, you know,
1:50:26
Speaker 1: and a paleo diet. They're like, eat your leafy greens,
1:50:28
Speaker 1: and I'm like, no, leavy greens, spinach and kale, hey you,
1:50:30
Speaker 1: they don't want to get eaten. Don't eat those foods.
1:50:33
Speaker 1: So as much as you could call it the cardinal diet,
1:50:35
Speaker 1: you could also call me the anti broccoli crusader. Like
1:50:38
Speaker 1: that's what's different about it, you know. It's like I
1:50:39
Speaker 1: just wanted people to understand we draw the ideas a
1:50:42
Speaker 1: little different. We we ask the same questions. They're valuable questions,
1:50:45
Speaker 1: I think, but we just answer them differently based on
1:50:47
Speaker 1: anthropology and ethnography and biomedical science, and say, why are
1:50:51
Speaker 1: we eating kale in the first place? Let make any sense.
1:50:53
Speaker 1: It is interesting, man, when you go into a garden
1:50:55
Speaker 1: and you're like, uh, you know you grow tomatoes. You're like, yeah,
1:50:58
Speaker 1: I asked the member of the night shade family. Dude,
1:51:00
Speaker 1: that family is full of ship that will kill you.
1:51:01
Speaker 1: You know, absolutely if you eat this one. It's a
1:51:03
Speaker 1: certain way. But you know, you look at the animal kingdom.
1:51:07
Speaker 1: I mean you can point to that puffer fish liver,
1:51:09
Speaker 1: but generally, like my kids like, is that bird edible?
1:51:11
Speaker 1: I'm like, listen, man, all birds are edible. They're just edible.
1:51:15
Speaker 1: They're like they might not. I'm not telling you they're
1:51:17
Speaker 1: going to taste good, but they're edible, and they'll be like,
1:51:19
Speaker 1: is that animal edible? Yes, yes, that's exactly what we
1:51:22
Speaker 1: talked about. You know, there are a few rare exceptions
1:51:26
Speaker 1: that frog in the Amazon, the ones, the ones we
1:51:30
Speaker 1: know about, and the power fish. But of animals readible,
1:51:36
Speaker 1: you can't say that about plants, right, You just can't.
1:51:38
Speaker 1: And all the unique new like any vertebrate the lake,
1:51:42
Speaker 1: like can I eat that? You can eat that? You
1:51:45
Speaker 1: like it? You can eat it. And yet if you
1:51:48
Speaker 1: and I walk into the woods and we just start
1:51:49
Speaker 1: eating swaths of plants, we're gonna be We're gonna be
1:51:52
Speaker 1: pooping our pants before we get very fair. We get
1:51:54
Speaker 1: excited about the ones that don't mess you up. They're like,
1:51:58
Speaker 1: I mean I could eat this the plant, it's like
1:52:00
Speaker 1: a very small proportion that will. And the ones you
1:52:04
Speaker 1: point out, the ones you be like, no, ship, you
1:52:06
Speaker 1: can eat it. Yeah, it's not gonna be good for
1:52:08
Speaker 1: you which mushroom is not going to kill you? Yeah? Yeah,
1:52:11
Speaker 1: you mean this one won't kill me? Sweet man. You see,
1:52:13
Speaker 1: there's such a good point, right Anything that's like still
1:52:17
Speaker 1: and growing on the ground, you have to be worried
1:52:19
Speaker 1: about it. You have to have almost a doctorate to
1:52:21
Speaker 1: know if you can eat it or not yet. But
1:52:23
Speaker 1: if it runs or flies, good to go? Yeah, like berries, kids, like,
1:52:27
Speaker 1: can we eat this one? Man? I don't know they're not.
1:52:29
Speaker 1: I don't know if they're not, but that one I
1:52:31
Speaker 1: know is actually safe. That stands out as safe. And
1:52:35
Speaker 1: that's that's that? Isn't that so interesting? It just makes
1:52:37
Speaker 1: so much sense right now. It's a funny point, man,
1:52:39
Speaker 1: the more you think about it. With the plant toxins,
1:52:42
Speaker 1: can you touch on safety? I read that word or
1:52:46
Speaker 1: sat satiety. I think there's two ways to pronounce it.
1:52:49
Speaker 1: Making that word was in the book a lot talking
1:52:53
Speaker 1: about how our current diet basically you just never get full.
1:52:57
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, this is super interesting in it all
1:53:01
Speaker 1: I say satiety like like comes from insatiable. So there
1:53:09
Speaker 1: are a couple of reasons that our current diet is
1:53:11
Speaker 1: not satiating. But I've had a lot of friends anecdotally
1:53:14
Speaker 1: tell me they try plant based diets and they're like,
1:53:16
Speaker 1: I'm always freaking hungry, and then they try an animal
1:53:19
Speaker 1: base and they're like, Wow, I felt full for the
1:53:20
Speaker 1: first time in so long, And I'm thinking, yeah, right.
1:53:23
Speaker 1: So society is complex, it's complex physiology and the human brain.
1:53:26
Speaker 1: But you know, just going back to what we were
1:53:28
Speaker 1: talking about with linteleic acid, there's really good evidence that
1:53:31
Speaker 1: linneleic acid makes us hungry. There's molecular mechanisms in the
1:53:34
Speaker 1: brain by which linoleic acid triggers hunger and saturated fat,
1:53:38
Speaker 1: which is found in animals, triggers satiety. And we don't
1:53:41
Speaker 1: have to get into why that works, but in the hypothalamus,
1:53:43
Speaker 1: which is part of the satiety center in the brain,
1:53:46
Speaker 1: these two fatty acids affect our selves and our mitochondria differently.
1:53:49
Speaker 1: So that's the first thing is that vegetable oils make
1:53:51
Speaker 1: you hungry. They're sabotaging your sotiety. We talked a little
1:53:55
Speaker 1: bit about sugar. Processed foods absolutely make you hungry, and
1:53:58
Speaker 1: I think there's nutrient density the sensing in the human body.
1:54:02
Speaker 1: If you are not getting the nutrients found in meat
1:54:04
Speaker 1: and liver, all those magical nutrients quote unquote that I
1:54:07
Speaker 1: talked about earlier Colleene Carnatiene Carnescene. You are not going
1:54:10
Speaker 1: to be satiated because your body is like I am
1:54:13
Speaker 1: deficient in something and it knows it. You can't tell.
1:54:16
Speaker 1: You don't have like your computer chip, like a diagnostic
1:54:18
Speaker 1: in your car, Like I'm deficient to ride with lave
1:54:20
Speaker 1: and I should go eat some liver. But you get
1:54:23
Speaker 1: cravings and they go out of whack when you're pregnant,
1:54:25
Speaker 1: and it big winds up being the thing everybody talks
1:54:28
Speaker 1: about exactly, and you only can crave things you've had.
1:54:30
Speaker 1: So people say, well, why don't I crave liver? What
1:54:32
Speaker 1: when was the last time you eat liver? Right? Like
1:54:35
Speaker 1: you all you know is that you crave something. And
1:54:38
Speaker 1: that's so society is huge, And I think that I've
1:54:42
Speaker 1: never liked weight loss strategies that put people in a
1:54:45
Speaker 1: mental prison. You're never going to be able to calorie
1:54:48
Speaker 1: restrict for your whole life. Calorie restricting and starving yourself
1:54:52
Speaker 1: is a fantastic way to lose weight. It's also a
1:54:55
Speaker 1: fantastic way to have your life suck really bad, and like,
1:54:58
Speaker 1: why are you living life if it's so miser bole
1:55:00
Speaker 1: and your body will find a way. You will never
1:55:02
Speaker 1: stay in calorie prison your whole life unless you are
1:55:05
Speaker 1: super motivated, and what's the point of living in that way?
1:55:07
Speaker 1: So that's why dietary constructions like this, they're fascinating to
1:55:10
Speaker 1: me that actually emphasize nutrient density and ancestrally consistent diet
1:55:15
Speaker 1: and they create sutiety without making us feel like we
1:55:18
Speaker 1: are depriving ourselves. And you don't even have to have
1:55:21
Speaker 1: caloric deficit. So it's a huge topic and I think
1:55:25
Speaker 1: that you can starve yourself, but it's not going to
1:55:27
Speaker 1: work long term. I so appreciate that, just because I
1:55:30
Speaker 1: think the mindset of focusing on the outward appearance of
1:55:35
Speaker 1: someone's body and being calorie restricted, it's just led to
1:55:40
Speaker 1: so much, um, I don't know, so much pain, to
1:55:44
Speaker 1: say the least, for both men and women. But traditionally
1:55:47
Speaker 1: we think about women. You know, I have a younger
1:55:48
Speaker 1: sister and when she was growing up, you know, I
1:55:51
Speaker 1: I see it because I have a younger sister, Like,
1:55:53
Speaker 1: there's so much body image. I know men experience it too,
1:55:56
Speaker 1: but for women it's especially destructive. You know, it's really hard,
1:56:01
Speaker 1: and it's the same kind of idea. And in a
1:56:03
Speaker 1: while we're on the topic. You know, a lot of
1:56:05
Speaker 1: women don't think about red meat and organs as food
1:56:08
Speaker 1: because they're afraid of making them fat. But I really
1:56:10
Speaker 1: believe strongly that this is a game changer for women
1:56:13
Speaker 1: as well, because it's like, this is the food your
1:56:15
Speaker 1: body is craving. And I talk about this in a
1:56:17
Speaker 1: study in the book. We can look at things like
1:56:19
Speaker 1: evoked response potentials in the brain. This is one of
1:56:22
Speaker 1: the coolest parts of the book. And you can show
1:56:25
Speaker 1: vegetarians and vegans and omnivores pictures of meat, and you
1:56:29
Speaker 1: can look at with an e G and electro and cephalogram,
1:56:31
Speaker 1: we can look at we can look at the way
1:56:33
Speaker 1: different parts of the brain fire, and you can look
1:56:35
Speaker 1: at deeper regions of the brain like the brain stem
1:56:38
Speaker 1: kind of these lizard brain parts or you know, dyean
1:56:41
Speaker 1: cephalon parts like more ancestral or more i should say,
1:56:44
Speaker 1: more ancient parts of the brain. And you can look
1:56:46
Speaker 1: at the neo cortex, like the more recent parts of
1:56:49
Speaker 1: the brain. And when you show a vegetarian or a
1:56:51
Speaker 1: vegan a picture of meat, they get this sort of
1:56:54
Speaker 1: conscious aversion. But the subconscious part of their brain still goes,
1:57:00
Speaker 1: he's giving me. That's so you're saying, like evolutionary, evolutionarily,
1:57:05
Speaker 1: over time we have we are encoded to recognize something
1:57:10
Speaker 1: as nutrient giving and good for our body. But other
1:57:14
Speaker 1: parts of the brain which are like we've programmed during
1:57:17
Speaker 1: this lifetime based upon messaging and learning to be like, no,
1:57:21
Speaker 1: that's bad. But so we're just not in That's why
1:57:24
Speaker 1: they make plant food look like sausage and bacon. Yeah,
1:57:29
Speaker 1: you don't, you know, makes you think of is that? Yeah? Yeah?
1:57:34
Speaker 1: Why you take ship and try to get it to
1:57:37
Speaker 1: look like that? Like why why is it not its
1:57:39
Speaker 1: own thing? Like why why did veggie burgers or what
1:57:44
Speaker 1: they call him soybers? Why did they steal the burgers groove?
1:57:47
Speaker 1: But there's a there's an our part of this too.
1:57:49
Speaker 1: It was like they find that, um, I don't know
1:57:52
Speaker 1: how they measure, but there's a similar thing. Humans like
1:57:55
Speaker 1: overlooks and humans like shorelines, and it'd be like the rich,
1:58:03
Speaker 1: you know, like when you look at human just like
1:58:05
Speaker 1: the African diaspora. And when when humans started colonizing the world,
1:58:09
Speaker 1: it was you know, coastal routes, coastal routes and river routes,
1:58:12
Speaker 1: and so it seems that there's this sort of association
1:58:15
Speaker 1: with shorelines, land meats, water like the beach right triggers
1:58:19
Speaker 1: a thing where you're like, that's a good spot. And
1:58:21
Speaker 1: then also this idea that humans like and overlook. They
1:58:25
Speaker 1: like to be like, ha, I can see everything around me,
1:58:28
Speaker 1: and like it pleases some deep down thing in you
1:58:32
Speaker 1: to just see what's up. Not gonna be surprised. I
1:58:36
Speaker 1: know what's going on down there. People going in the
1:58:38
Speaker 1: restaurant and wanting the corner seat, and too, you know,
1:58:41
Speaker 1: their back is to both walls, so they can see
1:58:44
Speaker 1: periphectly everything around them. They don't have that feeling's gonna
1:58:47
Speaker 1: head behind me. You know. Yeah's some of my wife's say,
1:58:51
Speaker 1: because someone in Baja told me that. And you know
1:58:54
Speaker 1: it's like the old thing that you when you open
1:58:56
Speaker 1: a door and little woman going first, and someone house
1:59:00
Speaker 1: tell me that, Uh, you know, he's saying that's cultural.
1:59:03
Speaker 1: I mean, that's like it's cultural, but it's regional. And
1:59:06
Speaker 1: he was saying here it would be that you'd go
1:59:09
Speaker 1: in first to make sure everything's cool. You don't open
1:59:13
Speaker 1: the door and be like you going first. I'm not
1:59:15
Speaker 1: going in there. It's like you go in and it
1:59:17
Speaker 1: looks good. Things are cool. Everybody, your family comes in there,
1:59:20
Speaker 1: there's stand there and send them all in and then
1:59:23
Speaker 1: be like, good luck, I'll be through last the first.
1:59:28
Speaker 1: Do you guys know what percentage of vegetarians and vegans
1:59:30
Speaker 1: eat meat when they get drunk. It's astronomical. I think
1:59:35
Speaker 1: it's thirty to forty plus percent. I mean, like cortex,
1:59:42
Speaker 1: it starts getting you down to your reptilian brain. And
1:59:44
Speaker 1: that's not an uncontrovertible argument. That means for humans, you know,
1:59:48
Speaker 1: and you know, maybe it's even more, but it's a
1:59:50
Speaker 1: massive amount. You asked me earlier about truth. Well there's
1:59:53
Speaker 1: your truth, man. When you say that both like corner
1:59:57
Speaker 1: board dieters and vegans, uh, when they get drunk, they
2:00:01
Speaker 1: all eat pizza and they want their dough. It's possible.
2:00:07
Speaker 1: It's possible, And you know, I think you could you
2:00:10
Speaker 1: could say that, um, but I wonder I don't think
2:00:13
Speaker 1: you could draw the inference then that that's necessarily good
2:00:15
Speaker 1: for humans, just that that's like a uniquely addictive false
2:00:18
Speaker 1: food for humans, because nobody's gonna say, like, well, pizza
2:00:20
Speaker 1: is clearly a vitamin, like that doesn't work that way.
2:00:23
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think that we've figured out that's a
2:00:24
Speaker 1: whole separate discussion about the way that we've hijacked human satiety.
2:00:28
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah. And then we've the fact that we've
2:00:30
Speaker 1: made these things super addictive, but evolutionarily, there's no such
2:00:34
Speaker 1: thing as pizza. There's the thing I wanted to mention earlier,
2:00:36
Speaker 1: um that that my wife does that our kids that
2:00:40
Speaker 1: I think is helpful and what I came to mind
2:00:45
Speaker 1: when we were talking about earlier, like that to try
2:00:48
Speaker 1: to get yourself into a position where you feel really good,
2:00:51
Speaker 1: where you have an awareness of your body, and to
2:00:54
Speaker 1: strip things away to a point where like, okay, like
2:00:56
Speaker 1: I feel optimal right now. Like let's say you go
2:00:59
Speaker 1: on you know, uh hunt for a week and you're
2:01:02
Speaker 1: not at home snacking on normal garbage, and you're really
2:01:05
Speaker 1: pouring it to it physically every day, your meal structure
2:01:09
Speaker 1: changes and at the end of your like, god, like,
2:01:12
Speaker 1: I never feel this good. And then you just like
2:01:14
Speaker 1: lazily go back into all this ship that makes you
2:01:16
Speaker 1: not feel good, but you hit a point where you're like,
2:01:18
Speaker 1: this is what I would like to feel, like wide awake,
2:01:23
Speaker 1: a lot of energy, sleep, very soundly at night, right,
2:01:27
Speaker 1: and you hit kind of like a thing that a
2:01:28
Speaker 1: thing to strive to and just listen to your body
2:01:31
Speaker 1: when when when our kids are in a situation like
2:01:34
Speaker 1: let they go to a birthday party and all of
2:01:35
Speaker 1: a sudden, whatever reason, someone's hands them like a piece
2:01:37
Speaker 1: of cake the size of a book. Right. Uh, She'll
2:01:41
Speaker 1: say she like introduced this idea, she said, like, go ahead,
2:01:45
Speaker 1: listen to your body, you know. And it's funny, man,
2:01:48
Speaker 1: when you remind him of that, they will not eat
2:01:52
Speaker 1: as much because just making them be like, oh that's right,
2:01:55
Speaker 1: and they'll be like, you know what, my body's telling me,
2:01:56
Speaker 1: I'm done. But they need to be invited. They need
2:02:00
Speaker 1: to be invited and reminded to be like ask yourself
2:02:03
Speaker 1: when you think you've had enough of that ship, and
2:02:05
Speaker 1: hopefully and they're like, oh, yeah, you know what I do.
2:02:08
Speaker 1: I think I have had enough of that ship, you know,
2:02:10
Speaker 1: and they're more likely to walk away and hopefully, you know,
2:02:14
Speaker 1: parents can help their kids or you know, realize after
2:02:18
Speaker 1: they binge on Halloween candy or the cake, when the
2:02:20
Speaker 1: kids are like I don't feel good, I feel anxious,
2:02:22
Speaker 1: or I'm just you know, like do you think this
2:02:24
Speaker 1: is related to the food you ate. Listen to your body.
2:02:27
Speaker 1: I love it. I think that's what we need to
2:02:29
Speaker 1: teach our kids. But you bring up this great point
2:02:31
Speaker 1: that we talked on her earlier. It's just how many
2:02:33
Speaker 1: of us have taken the time to get to the
2:02:35
Speaker 1: point where we know what that optimal feels like, and
2:02:37
Speaker 1: then you can see the deviance. It's signal versus noise. Yeah,
2:02:40
Speaker 1: I used to have it, uh where I tell my
2:02:42
Speaker 1: wife like, God, I'm like, it's just so depressed today.
2:02:44
Speaker 1: And she goes, let's walk back a step. Let's walk
2:02:47
Speaker 1: back step. Were you pretty drunk forty eight hours ago?
2:02:51
Speaker 1: And I was like, my god, I was I forgot
2:02:54
Speaker 1: about that. She goes, yeah, yeah, maybe maybe something. They're
2:02:57
Speaker 1: funny that we've had this conversation thirty times. YEA, totally true.
2:03:03
Speaker 1: All right. So Paul Saladino m D how long you've
2:03:08
Speaker 1: been a doctor for all a long a long time,
2:03:11
Speaker 1: Like you went out of college and no, I, um,
2:03:14
Speaker 1: I guess it depends when you described me as a doctor.
2:03:16
Speaker 1: But I finished residency. I've got a medical school six
2:03:20
Speaker 1: years ago. So yeah, I'm a little bit. I'm a
2:03:23
Speaker 1: little bit. Uh. Your non tread. I'm little bit. Yeah,
2:03:26
Speaker 1: I'm a little bit older than most docs who have
2:03:28
Speaker 1: been out that long because I took six years off
2:03:30
Speaker 1: after college and just played and explored into my own return.
2:03:32
Speaker 1: Yeah do you did you immediately And I wanted to
2:03:35
Speaker 1: ask this earlier, just never got to it, But did
2:03:37
Speaker 1: you immediately get into diet type stuff and or what
2:03:41
Speaker 1: was your original medicine that you're going to work in? Yeah? Yeah,
2:03:44
Speaker 1: I've always been interested in diet before. The reason I
2:03:47
Speaker 1: said a long time was because I before I went
2:03:49
Speaker 1: to medical school, I was a physician assistant and I
2:03:52
Speaker 1: worked in cardiology, so I wasn't a doctor technically, but
2:03:54
Speaker 1: I was working in medicine and you know, as a
2:03:56
Speaker 1: p A. And then I went back to medical school.
2:03:58
Speaker 1: And the whole reason I went back to medical school
2:04:00
Speaker 1: was because I got fascinated by these connections between diet
2:04:04
Speaker 1: and health. I just was like, you know, I think
2:04:05
Speaker 1: this is a big lever. Of course, stress and family
2:04:08
Speaker 1: and community and environmental talkins, but diet is the lever
2:04:11
Speaker 1: that I wanted to get interested in. So I always
2:04:13
Speaker 1: knew that in my work I was gonna be kind
2:04:15
Speaker 1: of drilling down these ideas. I obviously haven't been thinking
2:04:17
Speaker 1: about a carnivore approach for you know, since I was
2:04:20
Speaker 1: a p A. But that was the reason I went
2:04:22
Speaker 1: back to medical school was to think, like, how is
2:04:23
Speaker 1: this connected? The carnival Code is not your first book.
2:04:27
Speaker 1: It's my first book. It is your first book. So
2:04:29
Speaker 1: you're saying, so you're you're working on a cookbook. Okay,
2:04:34
Speaker 1: but that's not gonna happen yet. That's next year. Got you?
2:04:37
Speaker 1: So the Carnivore Code, Paul Saladino, it's out now, soon
2:04:41
Speaker 1: out now? And then how do people go find you online?
2:04:45
Speaker 1: The best place to find me is all of my
2:04:47
Speaker 1: stuff on my podcast is at Heart and Soil Supplements
2:04:50
Speaker 1: dot com. And what about when you're hanging out on
2:04:52
Speaker 1: so do you do stuff on social media? At carnivore
2:04:54
Speaker 1: M d oh, that's good, like that sel that's real
2:05:01
Speaker 1: good at carnivore MD. Carnivore M d dude, that's a
2:05:04
Speaker 1: great idea, man. Animal based medicine. You know people think
2:05:07
Speaker 1: about plant based. We're doing animal based medicine. That's a
2:05:10
Speaker 1: great handle. Thanks gratulation. Doctor was taken. So I got
2:05:17
Speaker 1: meat doctor. Girls are like, can I call you doctor meat?
2:05:21
Speaker 1: So I was like, no, I don't think that's a
2:05:23
Speaker 1: good one. Doctor Meat was the other choice between Dr
2:05:26
Speaker 1: Meat dot com. Alright, so check out the book. I
2:05:33
Speaker 1: mean we only just touched on like a smidge what's
2:05:36
Speaker 1: in the book. So check out the book The Carnivore
2:05:38
Speaker 1: Code Paul Saladino, Dr Paul, and it's out. Now. You
2:05:46
Speaker 1: look real good in your author photo. I mean that's
2:05:48
Speaker 1: my Do you look at him? Dad? You look like
2:05:50
Speaker 1: a mean lawyer. You look like a mean lawyer that's
2:05:53
Speaker 1: going to get you out of jail. Driving a car
2:05:57
Speaker 1: real fast and pull out a nine mill and oh yeah?
2:05:59
Speaker 1: Are you looks like a dude from the Fast and
2:06:01
Speaker 1: Furious out there? Man, that's a better way to I
2:06:03
Speaker 1: wish my editor told me that. Man, you're too serious
2:06:05
Speaker 1: in this photo. Oh no, you just look like, Yeah,
2:06:08
Speaker 1: you look like you're gonna think being an espionage thriller.
2:06:11
Speaker 1: Maybe I was trying to be a little James Bond.
2:06:12
Speaker 1: Here we're up again, some serious stuff here, you know
2:06:14
Speaker 1: you guys, Yeah, do not joke. We're talking about human Hell,
2:06:17
Speaker 1: we're talking yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm putting a suit on. Man.
2:06:23
Speaker 1: I smile a lot more than that picture makes me. Actually,
2:06:26
Speaker 1: I know that I think the putting the picture demands
2:06:29
Speaker 1: some respect. Man. All right, thank you very much for
2:06:32
Speaker 1: coming on my pleasure. It's pleasure and privilege. I'm gonna
2:06:34
Speaker 1: go home and just drink animal fat, not fry anything,
2:06:38
Speaker 1: drink it cold. Well, you could just eat your animal fat,
2:06:40
Speaker 1: your animal I'm gonna experiment this was this is it
2:06:44
Speaker 1: gonna change what's for dinner tonight? M M. I made
2:06:49
Speaker 1: the mistake of not uh no, no, because no, because
2:06:54
Speaker 1: we had fish cakes last night, and we had so
2:06:57
Speaker 1: many suckers that we now have a giant bowl of
2:06:59
Speaker 1: fish cake. So we're having exactly what we had last
2:07:01
Speaker 1: night tonight. I don't want to waste I'd rather be
2:07:04
Speaker 1: unhealthy then waste suckers. Hear that. But after the next night,
2:07:12
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell everybody kids making misteake tonight. Raw you
2:07:18
Speaker 1: guys get a buzz buzz. Oh yeah, I'm flying high man,
2:07:22
Speaker 1: all hopped up on liver. I can't tell the creeper
2:07:27
Speaker 1: that you gave me. Yeah he threw u um, he
2:07:31
Speaker 1: threw some of that horse tranquilizer in the yond. All right,
2:07:36
Speaker 1: thanks a lot, man, Thanks Paul, Thanks guys. One