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20,000 Images, Child Porn Discovered in Maddie McCann Kidnap · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:06
Speaker 1: Does the name Christian Bruckner ring a bell? Probably not,
0:13
Speaker 1: but I believe it will. All of you legal eagles
0:17
Speaker 1: who like me, have been on the search for a
0:20
Speaker 1: little Maddie McCann for so long? Do we finally have
0:26
Speaker 1: answers in the form of a guy now doing jail
0:30
Speaker 1: time for the rape of a seventy two year old
0:32
Speaker 1: American woman, Christian Bruckner. If you look at the Maddie
0:44
Speaker 1: McCann website, you see that the parents ostensibly are still
0:49
Speaker 1: searching for Maddie under the belief that she is alive.
0:54
Speaker 1: What does Bruckner know? First of all, take a listen
0:58
Speaker 1: to our friend and every nine yees A major development
1:03
Speaker 1: to night in the search for Madeleine McCann. Police sticking
1:06
Speaker 1: up a German property link to the prime suspect. Authorities
1:10
Speaker 1: type lip though on what drew them to the site.
1:13
Speaker 1: In the garden allotment near the city of Hanover. German
1:17
Speaker 1: police begin a secret investigation into one of the world's
1:20
Speaker 1: most infamous unsolved crimes. Large screen shield much of their
1:25
Speaker 1: operation from public view, but there have been some revealing glimpses.
1:30
Speaker 1: An excavator turning over the soil, police holding rakes others
1:34
Speaker 1: with snipper dogs and amongst it all, a child slide.
1:40
Speaker 1: Location is more than two thousand kilometers from the Portugal
1:44
Speaker 1: resort where Madeline McCann disappeared, but it's very close to
1:48
Speaker 1: a previous address of a prime suspect in the case,
1:51
Speaker 1: German Man Christian Bruckner. The forty three year old is
1:55
Speaker 1: a convicted pedophile and it's alleged his mobile phone was
1:58
Speaker 1: used near the McCann's resorted Pride deluge on the night
2:02
Speaker 1: Maddie vanished. In two thousand and seven, we are still
2:06
Speaker 1: on the search for Mattie McCann, but now more answers
2:11
Speaker 1: to questions as they relate to a forty four year
2:15
Speaker 1: old man, Christian Brickner, with me an all star panel
2:18
Speaker 1: to make sense of it all. California Prosecutor Wendy Patrick,
2:22
Speaker 1: author of Red Flags and the host of Today with
2:25
Speaker 1: Doctor Wendy KCBQ. You can find her at Wendy Patrick
2:28
Speaker 1: PhD dot com. Doctor ANGELA. Arnold, renowned psychiatrists joining us
2:33
Speaker 1: out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. You can find her at
2:36
Speaker 1: ANGELA Arnold, MD dot com. Professor of Forensics at Jacksonville
2:41
Speaker 1: State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon
2:45
Speaker 1: and also the star of a brand new hit series,
2:48
Speaker 1: The Piked and Massacre on iHeartRadio. Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator.
2:55
Speaker 1: He's been on over ten thousand death scenes. And joining
3:00
Speaker 1: me right now a very special guest with a brand
3:03
Speaker 1: new book out just this week. It's John Clark, investigative journalist.
3:10
Speaker 1: He is the author of My Search for Madeleine. Of
3:16
Speaker 1: course he's talking about Maddie McCann, My Search for mad Line.
3:21
Speaker 1: John Clark is joining us right now. But first, Justice
3:25
Speaker 1: Scott Market Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, just got it's
3:29
Speaker 1: really hard for me to believe that even now we
3:33
Speaker 1: have still not found Mattie McCann's body, which leads to
3:39
Speaker 1: speculation this child is still alive. Yeah, we hold out
3:44
Speaker 1: hope that she is Nancy, but this is a long, long,
3:49
Speaker 1: long time for her to have survived, and so it
3:53
Speaker 1: looks rather bleak. I have to admit, and vast distances
3:58
Speaker 1: that we're talking about. She was last seen in Portugal, Nancy.
4:02
Speaker 1: And what a wild circuitous route that this alleged perpetrator
4:09
Speaker 1: has gone on over these years. And speaking of Portugal,
4:13
Speaker 1: I cannot ignore the fact that this convicted rapist. Now
4:17
Speaker 1: you may think that a rapist in attacks is seventy
4:21
Speaker 1: two year old American woman would not be the same
4:29
Speaker 1: that attacks a three year old also vacation or little
4:33
Speaker 1: girl Mattie McCann. But think about it, doctor Angela Arnold.
4:38
Speaker 1: In both cases that's a sex attack, an attack of
4:42
Speaker 1: a female, an attack of our most vulnerable, a tiny child,
4:46
Speaker 1: and an elderly lady, someone that can't fight back under
4:51
Speaker 1: similar attack circumstances. They're both at a vacation spot. I mean,
4:57
Speaker 1: actually the similarities are quite profound, right, And you know, Nancy,
5:02
Speaker 1: a predator is a predator, is a predator. And whether
5:06
Speaker 1: this was whether one or the other, was some sort
5:09
Speaker 1: of crime of opportunity or whether it was planned by him,
5:13
Speaker 1: this man is a predator. He is a sexual predator.
5:17
Speaker 1: But let's don't forget in addition to attacking the seventy
5:20
Speaker 1: two year old American woman, he is also a pedophile,
5:24
Speaker 1: which fits in with the attack on Maddie McCann, the
5:28
Speaker 1: kidnap of Mannie McCann. Guys, let's go to the source,
5:32
Speaker 1: the oracle, so to speak, joining me, especially against John Clark,
5:35
Speaker 1: investigative journalist and the author of a brand new book
5:38
Speaker 1: that has just hit the stands. My search for Madeline
5:42
Speaker 1: on Amazon, John Clark, I get a bad taste in
5:47
Speaker 1: my mouth. I really think about it. It's almost physical
5:50
Speaker 1: when I say the name Christian Bruckner, and I'm really
5:55
Speaker 1: really peeved about this cartoon that he drew and just released,
6:02
Speaker 1: which is of I guess, since I'm not there in
6:07
Speaker 1: Europe to see the people. I guess is of the
6:11
Speaker 1: prosecutor leaving the investigation into Mattie's disappearance. It looks like
6:15
Speaker 1: jurars falling over I guess asleep in the jury box.
6:22
Speaker 1: And then behind a partition there is a psychic, a
6:27
Speaker 1: fortune teller, and the prosecutors offering the fortune teller money
6:33
Speaker 1: for the fortune teller to create more evidence against Christian Brickner.
6:39
Speaker 1: So this pedophile that prays on little children, that raped
6:45
Speaker 1: an elderly American woman is now mocking the justice system. Well,
6:51
Speaker 1: he can go to and burn in hell for all
6:54
Speaker 1: I care. But what connects him to Mattie. I can
6:58
Speaker 1: tell you if there's an enormous amount of evidence against
7:01
Speaker 1: Christian Bruckner, and the police have been proving this since
7:05
Speaker 1: two thousand and seventeen. In fact, whoa Jackie is it?
7:10
Speaker 1: Twenty twenty one? Seventeen eighteen nineteen twenty twenty one, that's
7:18
Speaker 1: five years, that's right now. I mean, we know a
7:20
Speaker 1: few things for certain. We know that his mobile phone
7:23
Speaker 1: number was used in the vicinity of Madeleine's apartments on
7:27
Speaker 1: the night she went missing. We know that he lived
7:30
Speaker 1: less than a kilometer promote from Pradeluge where she was snatched.
7:34
Speaker 1: And we also know that the woman that was raped
7:37
Speaker 1: in factor Stamford Graduate, a very wonderful woman actually, who
7:40
Speaker 1: was a journalist herself, who was raped, a sevent two
7:43
Speaker 1: year old woman American woman whose raped lived also within
7:48
Speaker 1: a kilometer of where he'd lived for seven years, and
7:51
Speaker 1: he had I've traced his crime career nineteen convictions in total,
7:57
Speaker 1: including further rapes, sex assaults, child abuse, starting from the
8:02
Speaker 1: age of fourteen, and he was living there pretty much
8:07
Speaker 1: Scott three for seven years in Portugal. Crime Stories with me,
8:19
Speaker 1: it'sy Grace. John Clark is joining me from Spain right now.
8:23
Speaker 1: He's just coming by with a brand new book. It's
8:25
Speaker 1: really fascinating. My search from Madeline on Amazon. Nineteen convictions
8:33
Speaker 1: going back to age fourteen. What in the h double
8:38
Speaker 1: L was he doing walking around free that I Maddy
8:42
Speaker 1: is kidnapped? Good? I mean, honestly, the mind boggles that
8:47
Speaker 1: I can tell you that the German police are not
8:49
Speaker 1: just looking into him for prosecution in the Madeline mccan case.
8:54
Speaker 1: He's been prone in at least five other cases that
8:57
Speaker 1: I've looked into, and at least two or three more
9:01
Speaker 1: than involved children. And you know, it's pretty certain that
9:05
Speaker 1: he was in twenty seventeen was the man that exposed
9:09
Speaker 1: himself to four children. I mean, this is ten years
9:13
Speaker 1: after Madeline mccan was back in Portugal at a fiesta
9:17
Speaker 1: at two o'clock in the morning, exposing himself to four
9:20
Speaker 1: young children in a play park in a place called Messine. Now, okay,
9:24
Speaker 1: wait a minute, John Clark. I know that you are
9:27
Speaker 1: in the investigative journalists, but I think we need a shrink,
9:29
Speaker 1: and we need it right now. Doctor Angie Arnold, Doctor
9:33
Speaker 1: Angela Arnold. Doctor what is that thrill an adult gets
9:42
Speaker 1: from exposing themselves to a child. Well, it's not just
9:46
Speaker 1: any adult. First of all, these people are a pedophile,
9:51
Speaker 1: as a person who is sexually attracted to children. And
9:57
Speaker 1: I've actually I've actually had to take care of pedophiles
10:00
Speaker 1: in my past, and they and they and they have
10:04
Speaker 1: explained to me how they think and how they and
10:07
Speaker 1: how they pray and wait. Oftentimes they will you try
10:12
Speaker 1: to make a relationship with the child. But of course
10:15
Speaker 1: this was not the case initially. It sounds like, but unfortunately, Nancy,
10:24
Speaker 1: they're very sick individuals. Time has shown that they really
10:31
Speaker 1: aren't treatable. You know, I said that a million times
10:35
Speaker 1: as a prosecutor in inner city Atlanta. A child molester
10:38
Speaker 1: cannot be rehabbed, and statistics show that they get out
10:43
Speaker 1: and they do it again and again. And the reality
10:46
Speaker 1: is Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author read Flags host Today
10:50
Speaker 1: with doctor Wendy Casey b K. I can go on
10:52
Speaker 1: and on, Wendy, the reality is, every time a child
10:55
Speaker 1: molester is caught, he has molested does sometimes before then dozens. Yeah,
11:04
Speaker 1: It's one of those things that you wouldn't know unless
11:06
Speaker 1: you were in the system and actually worked with them.
11:08
Speaker 1: As doctor Arnold was saying, you know, I used to
11:10
Speaker 1: prosecute all the sexually violent predator cases, the ones that
11:14
Speaker 1: did actually take the stand in these civil commitment proceedings,
11:17
Speaker 1: and admits how many times they had done it in
11:19
Speaker 1: the past. With cases like this where you have a
11:22
Speaker 1: play stop at Wendy play stop it. That's like Jackie
11:26
Speaker 1: over there telling me she just turned twenty one again.
11:29
Speaker 1: She's admitting she turned twenty one. She's turned twenty one?
11:33
Speaker 1: What ten times already, jackiey. So when you tell me
11:36
Speaker 1: a child molester or admits they molested X number of times,
11:40
Speaker 1: b s well, no, not in sexually other predator cases
11:44
Speaker 1: because they have to admit it in those cases because
11:46
Speaker 1: they're seeking to prove that they've been rehabilitated. So it's
11:49
Speaker 1: that honesty. But initially, when you're looking at whether or
11:53
Speaker 1: not somebody has it's ever been the first time that
11:56
Speaker 1: they fanned television, you have to assume that it isn't.
11:59
Speaker 1: And that's why we look at patterns make the predator.
12:02
Speaker 1: If somebody gets caught once, we worry how many times
12:06
Speaker 1: they have done it before. And when you have something
12:09
Speaker 1: like indecent exposure, there has to be this element of
12:13
Speaker 1: wanting to achieve sexual arousal. It can't be an accident.
12:16
Speaker 1: Is most adults would be qualified to have other people
12:19
Speaker 1: catching them with their pants down. It has to have
12:22
Speaker 1: that requisite amount of intent that's important when you're looking
12:26
Speaker 1: at somebody that has also been accused of sexual predator.
12:31
Speaker 1: Back to you, John Clark, investigative journalist and author of
12:34
Speaker 1: My Search from Madeline That is just yet Amazon. Let's
12:38
Speaker 1: follow up on what Wendy Patrick, Joe Scott and doctor
12:41
Speaker 1: Angie If just said. The pattern makes a predator. That's
12:45
Speaker 1: what Wendy said. And I can't help but notice, John Clark,
12:49
Speaker 1: that wherever Christian Bruckner goes, children get missing. Yeah, well,
12:55
Speaker 1: this is absolutely fascinating, and I'd like to just add
12:58
Speaker 1: to the point that we're just made that at the
13:01
Speaker 1: first time he was convicted, it was for a nine
13:03
Speaker 1: year old and a six year old child, and he's
13:06
Speaker 1: going back to the age of fourteen and I believe
13:08
Speaker 1: possibly thirteen, and on both occasions a child was grabbed
13:13
Speaker 1: and snatched while he aroused himself, and they've only released
13:17
Speaker 1: a child when the child scream made so much noise
13:19
Speaker 1: that he had to let the child go. Now, if
13:23
Speaker 1: you go forward ten years, he's caught again in Germany
13:27
Speaker 1: grabbing a child and taking pictures holding that child with
13:32
Speaker 1: his penis in his hand, and basically those explicit pictures
13:36
Speaker 1: were used to prosecute him and to give him a
13:39
Speaker 1: prison sentence in Germany, from which of course he fled
13:41
Speaker 1: and had to be extradited. Now you go back to
13:45
Speaker 1: Madeline McCann. In two thousand and seven, just three weeks
13:48
Speaker 1: before Madeline McCann went missing on a beach right next
13:52
Speaker 1: to Pradeluge, we're talking about a five kilometer drive, there
13:56
Speaker 1: was another girl who was grabbed by German guy blue
14:01
Speaker 1: eyes who spoken a bit anitie in English and then
14:03
Speaker 1: in German, who basically masturbated by her on the beach.
14:07
Speaker 1: And when she screamed and her brother came over and
14:10
Speaker 1: the parents came to set safer, this guy ran away
14:14
Speaker 1: up the hill and they got a very very good
14:16
Speaker 1: look at him this broad day. He was naked. He
14:19
Speaker 1: ran off back to his van the other side of
14:22
Speaker 1: trace where he ran to and the parents two days
14:25
Speaker 1: later went to report this guy and what happened to
14:28
Speaker 1: their poor daughter, who was ten years old. And I
14:31
Speaker 1: can tell you now that the following day that case
14:34
Speaker 1: was shelved by the local police. They didn't feel there's
14:36
Speaker 1: any need to even go out to look at the
14:38
Speaker 1: place it happened, or indeed the track that he'd visited. Now,
14:42
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that the Maccans themselves and the parents
14:46
Speaker 1: are horrified, and they will be horrified to read this
14:48
Speaker 1: in my book. I'm sure they're aware of some of this.
14:50
Speaker 1: But this girl three weeks before Maddie went missing, could
14:54
Speaker 1: have been I mean, that was a great opportunity to
14:56
Speaker 1: catch this guy. And he lived very close by. He
15:00
Speaker 1: was described as six foot tall, which she was exactly
15:03
Speaker 1: six foot tall, blonde hair, he had blonde hair, blue eyes.
15:06
Speaker 1: He had blue eyes. He had four teeth they said
15:09
Speaker 1: that were wonky. He had four teeth that were wonky. Now,
15:13
Speaker 1: that to me is a guy that's done it for
15:16
Speaker 1: years and years and got away with it and got
15:18
Speaker 1: boulder and boulder and boulder, and has eventually just thought,
15:21
Speaker 1: I'm going to snatch a girl from an apartments, easy peasy,
15:25
Speaker 1: grab her and take her away. And I think that's
15:27
Speaker 1: what the German police are assuming. And as you say, Nancy,
15:31
Speaker 1: it's happened. There'd been a few cases, as you know
15:34
Speaker 1: in the German Maddie as they called her, vanished into
15:37
Speaker 1: thin air just around the time that Brookner happened to
15:40
Speaker 1: be part twenty miles away happened to be in a
15:43
Speaker 1: car accident. They know he was there the day before,
15:45
Speaker 1: in the same area that she went missing. They know
15:48
Speaker 1: he drove a blue van. A blue van was seen
15:50
Speaker 1: driving away from the scene. The girl was never seen again.
15:54
Speaker 1: One more case, Joanna, seven miles from Pradeluge where Maddie
15:58
Speaker 1: went missing two years earlier, is never seen again. No
16:01
Speaker 1: idea what happened to her. But I was living there
16:03
Speaker 1: at the time, seven miles away. So you're right to
16:06
Speaker 1: ask those questions, and those are the questions the police
16:09
Speaker 1: are looking at. How old was how old was Joanne?
16:13
Speaker 1: Joanna was eight? And how old is Inger? Inger was eight?
16:18
Speaker 1: And then you've got Mannie three. How far away was
16:22
Speaker 1: Inger's incident from Plue. It's in Germany, So Inger is
16:30
Speaker 1: in Germany, so near to where he'd been living at
16:32
Speaker 1: the time in Hanover, And they the Joanna case is
16:38
Speaker 1: about seven miles in land from prad Deluge, so very
16:42
Speaker 1: very close. And as you may or may not know,
16:44
Speaker 1: the police that were involved in the investigation, the detectives
16:47
Speaker 1: from the PJ importin now Aaao who's written a book
16:50
Speaker 1: about this case, was found was basically accused and then
16:54
Speaker 1: later convicted of covering up in the case of Joanna
16:58
Speaker 1: and four members of his own force went to prison.
17:01
Speaker 1: He got an eighteen month prison sentence for covering up
17:04
Speaker 1: a beating a thought of into a confession of this woman.
17:08
Speaker 1: Now his deputy, a guy called Christopher Pereira, he has
17:12
Speaker 1: just gone to prison for seven years for corruption, for
17:14
Speaker 1: basically running a gang that robbed, kidnapped of wealthy people
17:21
Speaker 1: around Lisbon and broke into homes. Now this guy left
17:24
Speaker 1: the PJ department in Portimau, went to work, and this
17:28
Speaker 1: is where it gets incredible. Became the head of the
17:31
Speaker 1: missing Children's bureau in Portugal for one entire year where
17:34
Speaker 1: I could find nothing. He didn't that tie yet. Then
17:37
Speaker 1: he went to become president of Sporting Lisbon, which was
17:39
Speaker 1: a football team twice convicted of fraud. Well there now
17:44
Speaker 1: in prison for seven years for running a crime gang.
17:46
Speaker 1: Now these that's the head of the operation investigator and
17:51
Speaker 1: his deputy. What does that say about this police department, Well,
17:55
Speaker 1: well it says to me at this precise moment is
17:59
Speaker 1: that nothing was done to apprehend Christian Brutner during the
18:04
Speaker 1: time that they were in charge. They were too busy
18:06
Speaker 1: in their own misdeeds. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. We're
18:19
Speaker 1: talking about the very latest in the search for this
18:21
Speaker 1: beautiful little girl, Mattie McCann, with a shocking development that
18:26
Speaker 1: has occurred. Take a listen to our cut sixteen been
18:30
Speaker 1: Avery at nine News. Please have confirmed that this search
18:34
Speaker 1: is linked to the disappearance of Madeline McCann, But what
18:37
Speaker 1: they won't say is what information has brought them here
18:40
Speaker 1: and exactly what it is they're looking for. German prosecutors
18:45
Speaker 1: have repeatedly said they believe Madeline's dead and that Brutner
18:49
Speaker 1: is their man. The suspect is being held in a
18:52
Speaker 1: prison for unrelated crimes around two hundred kilometers from the
18:55
Speaker 1: search site. In recently applied for early release in the
19:00
Speaker 1: past twenty four hours that bead was withdrawn. We're talking
19:05
Speaker 1: about a search that was done that has yielded very,
19:11
Speaker 1: very disturbing evidence. Take a listen to our cut seventeen
19:16
Speaker 1: Martin and brunt Sky News. On the third day of digging,
19:19
Speaker 1: police were said to have uncovered a hidden cellar they
19:23
Speaker 1: hoped it would provide the crucial evidence they need. Sniffer
19:27
Speaker 1: dogs joined the search in the garden of a secluded
19:30
Speaker 1: holiday chalet where the suspect once lived. Police were hunting
19:35
Speaker 1: for clues to the disappearance of Madeline McCann. Officers sifted
19:39
Speaker 1: piles of soil dug from a whole fifteen meters wide.
19:43
Speaker 1: They also used ground penetrating radar and later brought in
19:48
Speaker 1: a drone. Three skips were removed, not all of them full.
19:55
Speaker 1: Straight back out to John Clark, investigative journalist and author
19:58
Speaker 1: of a brand new bo My search from Madeline. John
20:02
Speaker 1: tell me about the search. Well, actually, it's great to
20:07
Speaker 1: hear Martin Brunt actually, who's the very very well known
20:10
Speaker 1: crime correspondent at Sky News, been there for twenty years,
20:13
Speaker 1: and actually I've wrote to a lot during the course
20:17
Speaker 1: of my book, and he, like I, have covered this
20:22
Speaker 1: case for many years. And he has also, I believe,
20:25
Speaker 1: been to the famous box factory New Readers Gleban in Germany,
20:31
Speaker 1: where they found all Christian Bruckner's memory sticks. In USB
20:36
Speaker 1: sticks are buried in a little supermarket bag underneath the
20:40
Speaker 1: dead body of a dog that, according to detectives, had
20:44
Speaker 1: been buried underground with its head out the ground. Now,
20:48
Speaker 1: I can't verify that, but that's been reported, and that
20:52
Speaker 1: to me sounds like a fairly sick individual. Now when
20:55
Speaker 1: the police found that stash of evidence, they tell me
20:59
Speaker 1: was up to twin two thousand videos and photos, including
21:03
Speaker 1: over one hundreds of Christian Bruckner himself in them. Now,
21:07
Speaker 1: a lot of these we assume must be rape cases,
21:10
Speaker 1: potentially child abuse. Now, I spoke to another Germans in
21:15
Speaker 1: Germany yesterday who said she'd seen a couple of these
21:18
Speaker 1: videos and they were pretty sick and pretty horrendous and
21:20
Speaker 1: saw Christian in them. Now police have been digging, as
21:24
Speaker 1: you know, in allotments around Germany. They've done it twice
21:27
Speaker 1: to my knowledge now, and that they're looking for further
21:30
Speaker 1: evidence like this to try and pin down how many
21:35
Speaker 1: cases this man could have been involved in. How many
21:37
Speaker 1: horrendous rapes and cases has this guy been involved in?
21:41
Speaker 1: And that's really what I think they'll be doing and
21:45
Speaker 1: take this from me, in the next few weeks, they
21:47
Speaker 1: will be continuing searches in Portugal and a few more
21:50
Speaker 1: in Germany to establish other potential burial sites of Christian
21:55
Speaker 1: Brutner's jo When you say they are searching in other allotments,
21:59
Speaker 1: what do you mean by allotment? Oh, yeah, well that's
22:02
Speaker 1: something we have in England allotments. They also have it
22:05
Speaker 1: in Germany where people will have a like a country
22:07
Speaker 1: house almost in a small space, a little bit of garden,
22:11
Speaker 1: and they might grow potatoes and vegetables, runner beans and tomatoes.
22:16
Speaker 1: And he loved these little allotment plots where he could
22:20
Speaker 1: go at the weekend and take young girls. And allegedly
22:24
Speaker 1: he dug a cellar at spot. Of these is that
22:27
Speaker 1: you've already reported on, and I think that the other
22:30
Speaker 1: one he also reported also allegedly dug a cellar. Now
22:33
Speaker 1: the woman who owns that, so being Salag, has said
22:36
Speaker 1: a number of times, please come and dig up my
22:38
Speaker 1: house see what you can find, because she's worried that
22:41
Speaker 1: she might be sleeping above something round the sinister. So
22:44
Speaker 1: an allotment is either a country house or it is
22:48
Speaker 1: a patch of land on which you can plant. Yeah,
22:52
Speaker 1: it's kind of how to describe it. It's quite a
22:55
Speaker 1: sort of socialist system that we have around Europe. I know,
22:58
Speaker 1: you guys in America, I think that's a dirty word,
23:00
Speaker 1: but you know it's. The idea is that you get
23:02
Speaker 1: a patch of land of town hall or council leases
23:04
Speaker 1: out to people, and it could be as small as
23:07
Speaker 1: a sort of you know, it's a kind of the
23:08
Speaker 1: course of a football pitch or something. A small plot
23:10
Speaker 1: even smaller than that, and they have a little shacks
23:13
Speaker 1: on them, like little kind of cottages. They're not country houses,
23:15
Speaker 1: they're more like cottages or huts. And some of them
23:19
Speaker 1: you can sleep in. Some of them you just keep
23:21
Speaker 1: your tools, you know, for gardening. But in Germany they
23:25
Speaker 1: love it, and you'll see them all over Germany. Every
23:27
Speaker 1: town has a series of allotments just on the outskirts
23:30
Speaker 1: of the city. You rent them very cheaply. They're subsidized
23:34
Speaker 1: and you can sort of go there and you can
23:36
Speaker 1: take things with it the weekend and pretty much kind
23:38
Speaker 1: of hide out like at the weekend. And these little
23:40
Speaker 1: plots amazing that instead of planting fruits or vegetables on
23:46
Speaker 1: his plot, he digs a seller. I'm very curious about
23:52
Speaker 1: the USB drives you're telling me between seven and eight
23:56
Speaker 1: were found on one of these alightments underneath the body
24:01
Speaker 1: of a dead dog, partially buried in a supermarket plastic bag.
24:07
Speaker 1: Do you believe John Clark that? At first I thought no,
24:15
Speaker 1: but now I'm thinking possibly yes, that Maddie McCann is
24:20
Speaker 1: pictured on any of these USB devices. And when we
24:25
Speaker 1: say USB. We're talking like a memory stick, is what
24:28
Speaker 1: I'm imagining. It's going to be the reason I first
24:31
Speaker 1: said no is in my thinking and Panels jump in.
24:36
Speaker 1: If they have Mattie McCann being raped or mistreated on
24:42
Speaker 1: a USB stick trace back to him and she's missing,
24:46
Speaker 1: then there's evidence in motive for murder. And so if
24:51
Speaker 1: they had that, why wouldn't they go ahead and formally
24:53
Speaker 1: charge him with her murder. On the other hand, right
24:58
Speaker 1: after they find the sevent a USB drives, they do
25:03
Speaker 1: state Maddie McCann is dead, and that is very, very
25:10
Speaker 1: probitive in my mind. But about that, John Clark, do
25:13
Speaker 1: you think Maddie's on one of these drives? I think again.
25:17
Speaker 1: I've asked the prosecutorout a number of times and understandably
25:21
Speaker 1: he won't be drawn on it. And I think it
25:23
Speaker 1: for a number of reasons. One that maybe it's something
25:26
Speaker 1: that's such circumstantial. Maybe you can see something of her
25:30
Speaker 1: on one of these pictures, but you don't know it's
25:32
Speaker 1: linked to Christian. Potentially there's a video that he may
25:35
Speaker 1: may or may not be in. Maybe there's some background
25:39
Speaker 1: or some evidence of her clothing. And one of them
25:42
Speaker 1: also Let's not forget that they found a series of
25:45
Speaker 1: swimming costumes and clothes at this box factory. This is
25:48
Speaker 1: not an allotment, by the way, the box factory in
25:50
Speaker 1: Nubi's Club, and this is an enormous two hector plot.
25:53
Speaker 1: It's a Second World War box factory that made boxes
25:58
Speaker 1: are all sorts of different things. And in this huge
26:00
Speaker 1: place where he allegedly wanted to keep cars and wanted
26:04
Speaker 1: to have some sort of sculpture garden he kept and
26:06
Speaker 1: probably I believe, and I went round it, and if
26:08
Speaker 1: you look at the photographs that are in my book,
26:11
Speaker 1: I believe he took people there to mistreat and I
26:16
Speaker 1: think horrible things happened that I find it very sinister.
26:18
Speaker 1: Actually going around it, it it was quite scary. So Jean
26:21
Speaker 1: Clark he owned the old box factory. He had bought
26:25
Speaker 1: it for thirty six thousand euros. I think that's about
26:28
Speaker 1: forty thousand dollars. And people have often questioned where he
26:32
Speaker 1: got the money to buy it. And I've also questioned
26:34
Speaker 1: where he got the money to buy a thirty thousand
26:37
Speaker 1: or twenty five thousand When you baygo a Tiffin Allegro,
26:41
Speaker 1: so you know there's a lot of questions about you know,
26:43
Speaker 1: if both those were found at the box factory. And
26:48
Speaker 1: you know, you have his best friend who I spoke to,
26:53
Speaker 1: Michael Tatchell, who he was in prison with for eight
26:55
Speaker 1: months in Portugal, told me, I'm sure he took Maddie.
26:59
Speaker 1: I'm sure he snap and sold her. That's what he
27:01
Speaker 1: told me. And you know, I published that and it's
27:04
Speaker 1: been in plenty of newspapers around the world, and I
27:08
Speaker 1: see no reason for him to lie. You know, he's
27:10
Speaker 1: a pretty okay guy, this Michael Tatchully's pretty pretty decent actually,
27:14
Speaker 1: and I think he's made of his ways. And I'm
27:18
Speaker 1: many other friends of Brookner to say the same. They're
27:21
Speaker 1: convinced that he stats her and did it sold her. Nancy,
27:26
Speaker 1: I got to jump in and dove telling him with
27:29
Speaker 1: what John was just saying relative to his source of
27:33
Speaker 1: moneis uh. You know, I know that we're talking about
27:36
Speaker 1: Maddie here, but I have to say she's not going
27:40
Speaker 1: to be the only child on these data sticks. Firm
27:45
Speaker 1: I firmly believe that this fellow is part of a
27:48
Speaker 1: network more than likely, and this data is sold, is traded.
27:52
Speaker 1: I think that that could potentially be a source of revenue.
27:56
Speaker 1: And there's also been a mention that he's been involved
27:59
Speaker 1: with and from Eastern Europe, which are very easily victimized,
28:04
Speaker 1: that can be just vanished off of the face of
28:07
Speaker 1: the planet, and no one knows where they originated from,
28:11
Speaker 1: no one knows what happened to them. And there's a
28:14
Speaker 1: whole underground network of these people that deal in human
28:18
Speaker 1: flesh like this, and that's what is really ominous about this.
28:22
Speaker 1: I think that that Maddie may very well just be
28:25
Speaker 1: the tip of the iceberg in this case. Crime Stories
28:38
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, John Clarton joining me, author of my
28:42
Speaker 1: Search for Madeline. John, you're telling me then that the
28:46
Speaker 1: USB drives are found not buried at an allotment, but
28:51
Speaker 1: at the old box factory that he Britner owns. No,
28:55
Speaker 1: I mean they were all found at this box factory,
28:58
Speaker 1: at least the ones that the police announced they were
29:00
Speaker 1: all found there. That it may they were looking for
29:04
Speaker 1: more USB and memory sticks when they dug up another
29:07
Speaker 1: allotment to different allotments. So I understand one thing that
29:11
Speaker 1: just confirming what your other guests just said then, is
29:15
Speaker 1: that he's absolutely right. I think there's a lot of
29:18
Speaker 1: trading of Eastern European girls. He did travel a lot
29:21
Speaker 1: into Eastern Europe. He had a lot of Eastern European girlfriends.
29:24
Speaker 1: We know from various people. He spent a lot of
29:26
Speaker 1: time in the dark nets and darkweb, which is a
29:29
Speaker 1: very sinister area to buy and sell goods for drug dealers,
29:33
Speaker 1: but also for child pornographers. It's a very, very lucrative industry.
29:38
Speaker 1: I just find that really difficult to believe. Wendy Patrick,
29:42
Speaker 1: California prosecutor and author Wendy that we can't find any
29:46
Speaker 1: firm connection between he Christian Bruckner, and the slaver, so
29:54
Speaker 1: to speak, the modern day slaver to whom he would
29:58
Speaker 1: sell these young girls children anyone. I mean by now,
30:04
Speaker 1: I would think there would be a connection via cell phone,
30:08
Speaker 1: via po box, via email, something connecting him to make
30:14
Speaker 1: the drop or the exchange child for money. There probably is,
30:18
Speaker 1: But those investigations, as you know, are marathons, not sprints.
30:22
Speaker 1: They probably do have connections, but maybe there's an argument
30:27
Speaker 1: that they're unclear, they're inconclusive, they need corroboration, they want
30:31
Speaker 1: to rule out alternate explanations. So it may be that
30:34
Speaker 1: this is a development of all those connections behind the
30:37
Speaker 1: scenes in order to present that airtight case at the
30:40
Speaker 1: end that maybe they already believe they have but aren't
30:43
Speaker 1: able to shore up as well as they can, especially
30:46
Speaker 1: now that we're learning that maybe this man has been
30:49
Speaker 1: using those allotments not to plant but to hide evidence
30:53
Speaker 1: what else might be there, which would of course account
30:56
Speaker 1: for these digs that are now occurring with more frequency.
30:59
Speaker 1: I want a circle back for those just joining us,
31:01
Speaker 1: we're talking about a development in a search for a
31:03
Speaker 1: beautiful young three year old girl, Manny mckeann, who was
31:06
Speaker 1: kidnapped while on vacation with her family. Back to you,
31:11
Speaker 1: John Clark, it described for those just joining us when
31:15
Speaker 1: Maddy's parents first realized she was gone. Well, that's right.
31:20
Speaker 1: It was in two thousand and seven, on the fifth
31:24
Speaker 1: of May and night and bitter May, at about nine
31:26
Speaker 1: thirty or quarter past nine, when they've been looking after
31:30
Speaker 1: their kids every half and hour, checking in on the
31:32
Speaker 1: kids at the eight dinner in the restaurant just outside
31:35
Speaker 1: their apartments. And wait, wait, wait right there. I was
31:38
Speaker 1: told the restaurant was about a football fuel linked the way.
31:41
Speaker 1: I think it's about less than a hundred meters. It's
31:46
Speaker 1: within eyesight of most of the parents' apartments pretty close
31:50
Speaker 1: atually within the complex. But once you've visited it, you
31:54
Speaker 1: realized that this complex wasn't very secure. There was no
31:57
Speaker 1: CCTV that were opening the very easily for anyone to
32:01
Speaker 1: go in. And I think crucially it's now been that
32:04
Speaker 1: it's now been established that somebody had written in the
32:07
Speaker 1: diary in the book the the the reservations book for
32:12
Speaker 1: the restaurant, that at the top of the page the
32:15
Speaker 1: parent the families, and there there were seven adults. I
32:18
Speaker 1: think there's three families or four families. They were all
32:21
Speaker 1: going to eat in the restaurant together while their children
32:25
Speaker 1: slept in their apartments, and that was written very clearly
32:28
Speaker 1: in the reservations book. And I think, yeah, the children
32:32
Speaker 1: was sleeping while they ate, and I think somebody saw
32:35
Speaker 1: that and either told somebody this is these children are
32:40
Speaker 1: there or there are not in their apartments tipped them off.
32:42
Speaker 1: Now everybody said that Christian Brooklyn was a fantastic burglar,
32:47
Speaker 1: robber climber. Now could he have been tipped off to
32:53
Speaker 1: potentially go into his apartments and rob them and maybe
32:56
Speaker 1: while he was there he had an opportunity arose, or
32:59
Speaker 1: maybe the one that was his immediate goal. So when
33:03
Speaker 1: one of the parents, who were I understand taking turns
33:06
Speaker 1: going back to check on the children, go back, they
33:08
Speaker 1: find out that Maddie is missing. Now you're telling me
33:12
Speaker 1: that at the time Maddie goes missing, Christian Bruckner lived
33:16
Speaker 1: just a few miles away from the resort. Half a
33:20
Speaker 1: mile half a mile. Wow, that's even closer than I thought,
33:24
Speaker 1: only a half a mile away. Had he ever been
33:27
Speaker 1: sighted at the resort? Had he ever been spotted there?
33:30
Speaker 1: John Clark, he was a regular in the resort. He
33:33
Speaker 1: was a regular. He used to be seen regularly in
33:35
Speaker 1: pubs and bars. He had girlfriends in the resorts. He
33:38
Speaker 1: won stage. He beat the living daylights out one girlfriend
33:42
Speaker 1: in front of plenty of witnesses in the bar. He
33:45
Speaker 1: then went back to her apartment and he'd under the
33:48
Speaker 1: bed to see if she would bring a boyfriend back.
33:51
Speaker 1: I think that's the supposition, and the girlfriend that told
33:57
Speaker 1: I think the Daily Mirror that had she come back
34:01
Speaker 1: with a boyfriend that night, she believes that he would
34:03
Speaker 1: have attacked the boyfriend and her very badly. As it was,
34:06
Speaker 1: she came into the apartment, found the apartments felt a
34:09
Speaker 1: bit strange, didn't really understand if something had changed. The
34:11
Speaker 1: blue steep was up. She wondered what was going on,
34:14
Speaker 1: and then she just looked under the bed and there
34:17
Speaker 1: he was. I mean, can you imagine it's the start
34:18
Speaker 1: of horror films, isn't it? You know? And I'm also
34:21
Speaker 1: wondering why if there are nearly twenty thousand images on
34:25
Speaker 1: these usb Dry said of in choice back to Christian Brutner,
34:29
Speaker 1: where are all those victims? Are those cases being prosecuted?
34:34
Speaker 1: Not just mad? It's what about that John Clark? You
34:38
Speaker 1: need like I have to go to the Halle police department.
34:41
Speaker 1: There's sixteen different federal regions in Germany. It's like America
34:44
Speaker 1: with all the different regions and different states, and you
34:48
Speaker 1: have to go to Halla police and ask the question
34:50
Speaker 1: because I got to learn no comments from them, you know,
34:53
Speaker 1: I think I filed ten questions, I got three back
34:56
Speaker 1: seven and no comments. And you know who are in
34:58
Speaker 1: all these other videos? Do they know these kids? Are
35:00
Speaker 1: they know who these people are? Of these You're absolutely right.
35:03
Speaker 1: I believe they are investigating an enormous amount of maybe
35:08
Speaker 1: the bringing back up. Obviously they're not getting anywhere on
35:11
Speaker 1: their investigation. How did Christian Bruckner get on end up
35:15
Speaker 1: our police radar to start with John, can they bring
35:19
Speaker 1: in Jodie Foster? Do you think can she come in?
35:21
Speaker 1: And a bit of investigation I wish. So how did
35:24
Speaker 1: they get on to Bruckner? Why did they first read
35:27
Speaker 1: flag him? Well, again in my book, if you read
35:31
Speaker 1: the interview with Bolter's the prosecutor, he said it comes
35:34
Speaker 1: from what he describes as good, solid German policing. And
35:39
Speaker 1: he said that the English had really didn't know and
35:42
Speaker 1: the Portuguese didn't know. But of course they managed to
35:45
Speaker 1: get the list of all the phone numbers that were
35:48
Speaker 1: linking in to the transmitter that covers the Ocean Club
35:52
Speaker 1: where Maddie went missing that night, And in the exact words,
35:55
Speaker 1: by amazing fortune, Portuguese police had kept all the phone
35:59
Speaker 1: numbers that were linked to the transmitter that was right
36:03
Speaker 1: outside the Ocean Club, so they knew that on the
36:06
Speaker 1: night Madu went missing, there were let's say a thousand
36:09
Speaker 1: phone calls between seven and let's say ten that night. Now,
36:14
Speaker 1: those lists that Portuguese police had luckily kept, they hadn't
36:17
Speaker 1: been destroyed. So in two thousand and seventeen, when German
36:21
Speaker 1: police got a tip off that Christian Bruckner might have
36:25
Speaker 1: been involved in the Madeline mccan case, and they decided
36:28
Speaker 1: to look into more detail. They discovered on that list
36:32
Speaker 1: a phone number of Christian Brutner's, a number that he
36:35
Speaker 1: used regularly, so they knew that he'd been outside the
36:38
Speaker 1: Ocean Club at exactly seven thirty I think at seven
36:42
Speaker 1: thirty two on the night that Maddie went missing. Had
36:45
Speaker 1: a half an hour phone call. So a long phone call,
36:47
Speaker 1: isn't it half an hour with somebody who has never
36:50
Speaker 1: come forward, who had never been able to discount from
36:53
Speaker 1: the inquiry that night outside the Ocean Club, and that
36:59
Speaker 1: I think that where the police really started thinking this
37:02
Speaker 1: guy is very interesting. And Maddie was found missing around
37:07
Speaker 1: nine fifteen, about an hour after the phone call. Yeah,
37:10
Speaker 1: they're about hour and a half half the phone call,
37:12
Speaker 1: so he was in the area. And of course the
37:15
Speaker 1: same night, two blonde men were seen outside the apartment.
37:18
Speaker 1: They've never been discounted. Two blonde men were standing on
37:21
Speaker 1: an apartment right next to her apartments. They've never found them.
37:26
Speaker 1: They've also seen a guy that was watching the apartment
37:28
Speaker 1: by two witnesses who saw a guy, old looking guy
37:31
Speaker 1: like scuffy hair. About the fact that Christian Bruckner apparently
37:35
Speaker 1: got drunk and confessed to someone he knew what happened
37:37
Speaker 1: to Mannie McKinnon again allegedly various times allegedly happened at
37:43
Speaker 1: a festival in Spain in two thousand and eight, he
37:46
Speaker 1: admitted it and again allegedly on the tenth Anniverse and
37:50
Speaker 1: tenth anniversary he was in a bar with a friend
37:53
Speaker 1: of his, so he knew in Portugal very well allegedly
37:56
Speaker 1: told him as well that he knew what happened and came.
38:00
Speaker 1: Now again that confession we don't know about. We've never
38:03
Speaker 1: heard exactly what he said, but we do know, and
38:06
Speaker 1: I believe there's three or four very key people here
38:09
Speaker 1: that are keeping quiet, aren't saying anything, are really very
38:13
Speaker 1: critical in this inquiry. Guys taken listen to our friends
38:17
Speaker 1: at Inside Edition. Do you still have the same suspect
38:21
Speaker 1: you had three months ago? Yes, we have only one suspect,
38:25
Speaker 1: only Christianity. How much information have you been sent? We've
38:29
Speaker 1: got hundreds of hints. Of course there are some hints
38:34
Speaker 1: which are only rubbish, but there are some hints we
38:38
Speaker 1: are hopeful that can make our investigation and more successful.
38:45
Speaker 1: Three months ago, you said you needed good evidence, forensic evidence.
38:52
Speaker 1: Have you found that yet? We have no forensic evidence,
38:56
Speaker 1: but it's not necessary to have forensic evidence to charge
39:00
Speaker 1: our suspect, but we need it somewhat evidence, maybe a witness,
39:04
Speaker 1: maybe a photo or video. I asked the prosecutor what
39:09
Speaker 1: evidence he has that makes him certain that Madeline is dead.
39:13
Speaker 1: He won't say, but he is aware of rumors. Someone
39:17
Speaker 1: told me that we have found the clothes of maybe yes,
39:21
Speaker 1: the pajamas. Yeah, but it's not true. If we found
39:25
Speaker 1: something like that, it would be great for our investigation.
39:29
Speaker 1: So let me ask you, guys you're hearing CBS. Is
39:32
Speaker 1: Peter Vincent questioning the prosecutor Hans Christian Walters about the
39:37
Speaker 1: investigation of Bruckner too, John Clark, where do you believe
39:40
Speaker 1: the evidence is that they've got against Bruckner thus far?
39:44
Speaker 1: And why aren't they acting on it? I think, as
39:47
Speaker 1: I explained, that they are what we would say, getting
39:50
Speaker 1: your ducks in the line. They have not just this
39:53
Speaker 1: one case. They are duty bound to investigate other children
39:56
Speaker 1: in other rate cases, and I believe they are biding
40:00
Speaker 1: their time to charge him and question him. I believe
40:04
Speaker 1: that They have so much good circumstantial evidence, as he says,
40:08
Speaker 1: we don't need forensic evidence, because if they have enough
40:12
Speaker 1: good witnesses or people he's s admitted it to, or
40:15
Speaker 1: even if he admits it himself, maybe they have a
40:17
Speaker 1: tape confession from him that he might have said to someone.
40:20
Speaker 1: We don't know exactly, but they have enough evidence, and
40:24
Speaker 1: I believe, and I now understand. I thought it was
40:26
Speaker 1: going to be this autumn, but I now believe it's
40:27
Speaker 1: going to be in the spring. They will first question him.
40:31
Speaker 1: We wait as justice and falls. Joining me Wendy Patrick,
40:35
Speaker 1: doctor Angel Arnold, Joseph Scott Morgan, an investigative journalists, author
40:39
Speaker 1: of a new book, My Search for Madeline on Amazon Now.
40:44
Speaker 1: John Clark, Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off goodbye friend,