Latest / AI for Founders with Ryan Estes / Reddit SEO for AI Search: How to Win ChatGPT Recommendations

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Reddit SEO for AI Search: How to Win ChatGPT Recommendations · AI for Founders with Ryan Estes

0:00
Welcome back to AI for Founders. I'm Ryan Estes, Reddit.
0:03
For decades, it's been the chaotic frontier of the
0:05
Internet, where the funniest memes in the darkest corners of
0:08
human thought coexist. But what if I told you that the
0:11
same wild playground is now one of the most powerful engines
0:14
behind AI training data, and that brands winning there are
0:18
already locking in the future of search?
0:21
Today's guest Danny Kirk, founder of Ready Reach, works
0:25
with 789 or even 10 figure brands to dominate AI search
0:29
visibility through Reddit. His agency has quietly helped
0:33
over 500 companies surface in the very answers that ChatGPT
0:37
and Claude delivers to users like you.
0:40
In this episode, we unpack how Reddit became the secret
0:43
marketing weapon of the AIH, why comments, not posts, are the new
0:47
SEO, and how generative search is rewriting the rules of
0:51
discovery. If you're a founder, CMO, or
0:54
anyone building an AI native brand, this one's for you.
0:58
Now you want to catch the signal before the algorithm scrapes it?
1:01
Subscribe to aiforfoundersnewsletter@aiforfounders.co.
1:05
This is where builders decode the next era of attention.
1:08
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1:12
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3:15
All right, we're rolling. Danny, how are you?
3:17
Welcome to the show. Hey, Ryan, I'm doing well.
3:20
Thanks for having me. Absolutely.
3:22
I'm really excited to talk to you.
3:23
As an expert in Reddit, I am a long time lurker, very few time
3:28
commenter, sometime submitter. So we're going to get deep into
3:32
your company, ready to reach. We're going to talk about you.
3:34
But before we get going, as context, talk to us a little
3:39
bit. Give us an introduction of your
3:40
business. Yeah, for sure.
3:43
So Ready Reach is a marketing agency that focuses on AI search
3:49
optimized Reddit marketing. So we'll cover what all those
3:52
details are about a little bit later on, I assume.
3:55
But essentially our clients are 78910 figure brands that want to
4:00
show up in AI search. Reddit is a huge source of AI
4:03
training data these days and is also a source of your thousand
4:07
true fans as a brand owner or founder via those subreddits, so
4:12
it's an amazing opportunity to do some very interesting
4:16
marketing that honestly 95% of other companies aren't doing.
4:20
Awesome, and how long have you been doing Reddit marketing?
4:24
Yeah, several years now. Actually our agency has been
4:27
around about a decade. We're getting close to a decade
4:29
here. And I've been in marketing about
4:30
15 years myself, starting some companies and directly marketing
4:35
with our agency. But we've been doing it for
4:36
about a few years now, long before a lot of other people
4:39
that are popping up. Yeah, 100%.
4:41
And I mean, now it's interesting how like Reddit is at the tip of
4:45
the spear, you know, forever. It was kind of like the fun
4:47
underground place to go. Not anymore.
4:53
Yeah, for sure. I think it's very fascinating.
4:55
I mean, I've been a Reddit user for years myself and it always
4:58
has been one of the weirdest places, the most awesome places
5:02
on the Internet. You know, you've got the good
5:04
and the bad, but everyone is being very genuine on there,
5:08
which I always appreciate. And you've got all these little
5:11
tiny subreddits, these little nation states with people that
5:14
are fans of the most obscure things you can imagine.
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And I mean like true fans. And I think that's incredibly
5:22
cool. And then you just add AI search
5:24
on top of that. And it's just crazy times in the
5:26
industry. Percent, you know, and it's kind
5:28
of counterintuitive, you know, if you think about Reddit was
5:30
probably early web 2 point. OI mean, it's not necessarily a
5:34
social media platform, although it is social.
5:40
I guess what differentiates it from the big ones is it's
5:43
largely anonymous. You know, in Zuckerberg whole
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claim was that like, oh, we we have to do away with anonymity
5:49
because it makes people mean it makes people act out on their
5:52
worst intentions. But Reddit's not really an
5:54
example of that. Reddit's an interesting example
5:57
where people totally anonymous will will downvote people that
6:01
are being jerks or kick them out of the community, upvote like
6:04
valuable information, and do it all by being like kind of
6:08
hilarious the whole time. Yeah, I totally agree with you
6:12
on there. And it is technically social
6:13
media, but I don't believe it is because my litmus test for
6:17
social media is, does somebody I know, did they post a photo of
6:21
their vacation? And do I feel FOMO that they
6:23
took a vacation and I did it just because I know them?
6:26
That's like the classic thing. We all just get FOMO on social
6:29
media. It doesn't happen on Reddit
6:30
because you have no idea who any of these people are.
6:32
And yeah, there are certainly some trolls on Reddit, that's
6:37
for sure, and some truly amazing people as well.
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I think that function is one of the best ideas their net has
6:43
ever had because it is kind of like the law of the large
6:47
population. So you know, you go to the State
6:50
Fair and they're like, all right, win 1000 bucks, guess the
6:53
bull's weight, you know the weight of the bull and some kid
6:58
walks up and says 2 lbs and then somebody says 100,000,000 lbs.
7:02
And you get like enough people to do this, and you actually do
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get really close to the number just with that consensus that
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that many people talking about things.
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So yeah, it's a weird place, but I think there's a reason why all
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these LMS and large AI companies are using their data to train
7:18
on. Yeah, I agree.
7:19
And it probably was just a little self reflection.
7:22
They're like, well, where am I, you know, do I want Facebook
7:25
training my data? You know, it seems like the
7:27
average. I don't even want to say average
7:30
because it is all voted up, but it is more intelligent.
7:35
I don't know why I'm picking on Facebook, but boy, when I end up
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there, I'm just like, wow, this is really terrible grammar,
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honestly, is what this is. This is not even a fifth grade
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reading level. Like what is happening?
7:46
Whereas Reddit, there is a baked in cleverness and kind of a
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playful kind of word play, you know?
7:54
Yeah. Absolutely.
7:56
I do think things that get voted up, people have literally
7:59
pressed that button and maybe they've pressed the downvote
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button and it still rose to the top with other people voting on
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it. So I think that's an incredible
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function. And when people, you know,
8:10
there's no followers on Reddit, there technically are like you
8:13
can follow other people. Nobody does that.
8:15
Well, you know, you don't have to have followers because it's
8:17
like an open platform. You can join a subreddit you
8:20
want. So I think the cool part about
8:22
that is that people's content is what they stand on.
8:26
You hear some of these great CEO's talk about ability to
8:29
write clearly and convey ideas is like one of the most
8:32
important things in business. I think that's similar to
8:35
Reddit. The people that write poorly and
8:38
are just, you know, being trolls.
8:40
The downvote and the people that are writing and putting an
8:43
incredible information into Reddit, it's going to go viral
8:46
and people support that sort of thing.
8:48
I totally agree. Yeah.
8:49
And it's almost like a throwback to the old message boards in a
8:52
way where people would find different threads, different
8:55
message boards around different things.
8:57
And that really is what Reddit is.
8:59
And maybe they were also early to kind of algorithmic content
9:02
distribution because, you know, you follow the Subs that you're
9:05
interested in, which are probably pretty niche.
9:08
You know, I really like the fly time sub.
9:11
It's just like pure Zen watching these guys just slowly make top
9:15
flies. I love it.
9:17
It's the best. But they're not a lot of content
9:19
there. So it'll intermittently put in
9:20
something about Kanye or whatever.
9:22
So it's not necessarily just giving you your friends feed
9:25
like social media did. Rather, it was like putting in
9:27
what's popular, what it thinks you would like.
9:29
Now, of course, TikTok has gone on to master that, But you know,
9:32
TikTok comments are just, you know, that you're not going to
9:35
see the funny comment in TikTok like you will with Reddit.
9:38
There's things I'll click on just to see the first comment
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because I know it's going to be fire and I want to see how close
9:44
my take is to the most popular take.
9:48
Yeah, I know. I totally agree.
9:49
And it's really interesting. Like you said, there's kind of
9:51
like the first iteration of the web almost.
9:53
And Reddit's been around for a while, and we've done a lot of
9:57
things on the Internet. And ironically, we're kind of
10:00
coming back to some of the basics now.
10:02
You see, like, Substack getting really popular.
10:04
Like, who knew newsletters would come back, you know?
10:08
And I think a lot of people are finding that in Reddit, too.
10:11
It is like, man, we passed this by 20 years ago and now it's
10:14
like, no, there's something here.
10:16
Yeah, I totally agree. And it's super entertaining.
10:18
And they they've had some controversy in the last couple
10:20
of years too, you know, new CEO's, they clean it up a lot.
10:24
You know, another characteristic I think of message boards and
10:27
the old Internet was like, you could find absolutely the worst
10:30
things on planet Earth on there. And I'm sure there's still nooks
10:34
and crannies of where you can on Reddit.
10:36
But I mean, I used to have these horrible Subs that I'd subscribe
10:40
to. It was like Watch People Die was
10:43
one, there was another. One, there's some horrible one.
10:47
Called fat people hate and you know, like I, my weight
10:52
fluctuates, you know, but I, I got the jokes.
10:54
It was just so mean, but like that was kind of the irony.
10:57
It was like it was funny, you know, but some of these things
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it's like they're so toxic and poisonous.
11:03
Like you'll, it's like the car wreck you can't look away from.
11:05
So when they kind of cleaned that up, if I felt like it
11:08
cleaned my psyche a little bit. Yeah, for sure.
11:12
I think they've tried hard. I mean, those guys have been
11:14
around for a very long time now and may finally be profitable,
11:18
actually, with all the CI stuff. But I do think that Redditors
11:22
are incredibly passionate. I think people at the
11:24
corporation level are incredibly passionate.
11:26
Everyone wants to see it stick around.
11:28
So I think they're trying 100. Percent and this is good kind of
11:31
transition to talk about like kind of your services and what
11:35
you're doing largely. And let's start with like, you
11:38
know, brand security. Like people are like, hey, we
11:41
want to get onto Reddit, but we know that, you know, watch
11:43
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11:47
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11:50
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think. Yeah, for sure, Reddit is, I
14:00
think that is the one of the most annoying things about
14:03
Reddit is it is there are a lot of rules and every single
14:06
subreddit has different rules and it's just like constantly
14:09
trying not to step on landmines. So of course Reddit as a whole
14:13
has their turns and of service and whatnot.
14:16
You need to understand what a good account looks like.
14:20
You need to understand karma, you know, good Reddit points for
14:24
getting uploaded and making posts.
14:26
You need to understand how Reddit people talk, how they
14:29
don't like promotion in an overly promotional way.
14:33
And then every single subreddit has individual rules as well,
14:36
which you need to be abiding by. So it's honestly really, if
14:40
you're going to do it yourself, you need to dive in.
14:42
I always tell people just go play around with it.
14:45
Actually exactly similar advice to AI.
14:47
People are like, what should I do with AI?
14:48
Well, just open up your favorite LLN and just ask it questions
14:53
for a week and see how you feel at the end of it.
14:54
Same with Reddit. Don't worry about marketing at
14:57
all. Just go play around a little
14:58
bit. Join your favorite subreddits.
15:00
Yeah, the fly fishing fly time subreddit, whatever it might be,
15:04
travel, who knows, and just kind of engage with some of those,
15:07
make some comments, give some uploads, maybe even make a post
15:11
if you want to. And just do that a little bit
15:13
before you get concerned with because then you'll have a good
15:16
base of understanding as far as the ethos of the platform.
15:20
And boy are you right, Every single subreddit has its own
15:23
rules of engagement and posting. And then there's the unwritten
15:27
rules and the jargon and terminology.
15:30
I still watch Fighter and the kids subreddit.
15:32
I think we talked about that before you watch that one.
15:36
Yeah, a little bit. I've seen it before.
15:38
They have like all that Chabanese.
15:40
So you have to like speak in the right way and there's rules on
15:43
the pictures and whose face you got to blur out and everything
15:46
you know. So it's a lot, you know.
15:48
So when you're thinking about like services in the service
15:53
industry, I'm a big fan of, you know, I've had agencies for a
15:55
long, long time. And one of the good things is,
15:58
is there's low barrier entry. So you can get in there and you
16:01
can start doing it, but one of the bad things about it is low
16:03
barrier of entry. So there's a lot of competitors.
16:06
So it always separates a good agency from a mediocre agency is
16:11
the execution and the ability to perform the task.
16:15
Now what I'm thinking about credit marketing, that seems
16:18
very, very difficult to actually complete the task.
16:23
So let's talk a little bit about the tasks and exactly kind of
16:26
what you do on behalf of the clients.
16:30
Yeah, for sure. So on Reddit, I kind of
16:31
breakdown what you can do on Reddit and to kind of, well,
16:35
let's talk about four buckets. You can do advertising.
16:37
We actually don't do any paid ads for our clients because I'm
16:40
a big believer in organic, but some people do advertisements.
16:43
I've been told it's one of the lowest cost per click on the
16:46
Internet. So maybe it's something for some
16:48
listeners to look into. There are AM as ask me
16:52
anythings. We actually haven't dipped our
16:55
toes into those just because like AI search doesn't seem to
16:58
be citing AMA. So for our clients for their
17:01
goals, it's not a very relevant thing.
17:03
But then that leaves posting and commenting.
17:05
So posting is making a new thread.
17:07
People call them threads as well.
17:09
You're actually in with a subreddit making a new post or
17:13
topic, whatever it might be, telling your story, what not,
17:17
and people can comment on that. Now the other side that is
17:19
commenting, you can comment into post as well.
17:22
I think both are great. If we're talking about marketing
17:26
here, Reddit is very emotional. Even if you're following the
17:30
rules, people can, I mean, people can downvote whatever
17:33
they want. So if they kind of see that
17:35
you're being a little too salesy or too promotional, go downvote
17:38
you, even if you're playing by the rules.
17:40
So posting is inherently self promotional because you're like,
17:45
hey, I'm posting this, I'm going to talk about myself.
17:47
Or it's just like kind of waving your hand.
17:50
That can work well, but posts can get off and deleted.
17:54
They have a lot of rules involved.
17:56
If you mention a brand name, they're even riskier and they
17:58
can't get deleted. Commenting.
18:01
My belief is commenting is inherently helpful.
18:03
Somebody else has made the post. You're going in there and just
18:06
leaving a helpful comment that may mention a brand.
18:10
As I always tell my clients on sales calls, be genuine,
18:13
helpful, factually accurate and truthful with the goal of really
18:17
helping the reader 1st and then maybe mentioning a brand second.
18:20
But I believe commenting is where it's all at in Reddit.
18:24
And then AI appears to be reading the comments because all
18:28
the AI trade big labs are looking for human data, human
18:33
interaction. Where is it coming from?
18:35
It's actually coming from the comments.
18:36
That's where the humans interact.
18:38
It's not on the post level, It's in the comments.
18:40
So that's also another belief why we think is the best place
18:43
to be at. Yeah.
18:44
Is it best practice to use an account to pose a question and
18:48
use another account to answer the question?
18:52
Some people do that. So, you know, it's funny, I just
18:56
got one of my favorite compliments of all time 2 weeks
18:59
ago on there's a very well known agency owner and we had a call,
19:03
she's a category leading agency owner and she said, Danny,
19:06
you're the first non sketchy Reddit marketer I've ever spoken
19:09
to. Like you said, it's a low
19:11
barrier to entry. You know, there's a lot of
19:13
people coming out of the cracks. Some people do huge bot farms
19:17
and upvote farms and, you know, a matrix of interactions.
19:22
I've got nothing against people doing that.
19:24
We don't do that. We want our work, really good
19:27
comments to really stand on their own.
19:29
They get upvoted because they're great and we let the community
19:33
do that. And that actually just kind of
19:36
goes back to my belief and desire of wanting to make the
19:39
platform better or not worse. So that's kind of what we focus
19:41
on. Yeah, you know, I, I tried that
19:44
once. I went on this Reddit and was
19:46
like, hey, what's a good newsletter about this subject?
19:49
And then I went to my alt account and was like, I
19:51
recommend this newsletter. The admin was like, hey man, we
19:56
we deleted that. We can tell that those are both
19:58
you. I was like, oh whoops.
20:00
Yeah, OK, yeah, we can see here. Yeah, it's odd for as Jakey has
20:05
read, it is. And boy, it is not the most
20:07
technologically savvy platform on the Internet.
20:10
Let's all just be honest about that.
20:11
They are incredibly good at detecting things for their tech
20:15
level. So that's why I tell clients,
20:17
you know, not only is it kind of an ethos thing, but also they're
20:21
just really good at that, detecting that stuff.
20:23
Yeah, totally cool. One thing about optimization,
20:27
you know what was called search engine optimization?
20:30
SEO is now called Answer Engine optimization.
20:34
Is that correct? Is that the acronym they landed
20:36
on? We've met, nobody knows.
20:39
So it's either generative engine optimization or AEO answer or
20:44
agentic optim engine optimization.
20:47
Me and my colleagues are just calling it AI search these days.
20:51
So yeah, cuz that's what it is. You know, SDO is not going
20:54
anywhere. It's getting cut into by AI
20:57
search. But I think it's just kind of an
20:59
evolution of the space. It's just kind of changing.
21:02
It's all search. There's just a new tab now.
21:04
And we're all figuring it out as we go.
21:06
The thing is, somebody threw out AEO the other day and I was
21:09
like, whether I gotta always back up?
21:11
I don't know. What's that acronym?
21:13
They're like, you know, agentic or whatever or answer generate.
21:16
And I was like, why are you feeling that all confident, like
21:19
it's been resolved, Like we don't know what this is called
21:21
yet. You can't, you can't just, but
21:25
it's interesting. So like SEO, typically you're
21:27
doing a SEO campaign, you're really committing to content.
21:31
I mean, I think a general rule of thumb is it might be 3 to 6
21:33
months before you see some of the results really start to pop.
21:37
How is that different with LLMS? Yeah.
21:42
So I think it's a forever game similar to SEO.
21:46
So it's a long tail strategy of compounds and compounds.
21:49
So the people that are going to win are the ones that start
21:51
today and play for the long term.
21:54
Now having said that, this is SEO 25 years ago.
21:58
So the ones that are doing it today, it is the easiest it will
22:02
ever be today and it's just going to get harder and harder
22:05
after that. So right now, fewer than 5% of
22:08
brands are actually doing anything about AI search.
22:11
And that gap is the biggest growth opportunity I've seen in
22:14
decades. And like I said, every single
22:16
day after today, it's going to get harder and harder.
22:18
So easier than SEO right now, but it will become just as
22:23
competitive. Yeah, 100%.
22:24
And I mean to your point, all the bots that are coming in
22:27
everywhere, I mean I haven't necessarily noticed a large
22:31
uptick in like AI slop or very obvious bots.
22:36
I think they are pretty good at unpacking it or like a
22:38
protecting it. But it, you know, of course,
22:42
with like all the attention being on Reddit, you know,
22:45
because it's a source of tons and tons of tons of data every
22:49
single day. In the same way that podcasts
22:50
are getting used as well. I mean, you know, all the major
22:54
AI companies have already scraped the whole entire
22:56
Internet up and down left and right and they're always hungry
23:00
for more. And this seems to be a place
23:01
where they're getting higher quality and generative content.
23:06
What are some of the other like platforms that are feeding LMS
23:09
right now? Yeah, there's a bunch of them
23:12
out there. Obviously Wikipedia is a huge
23:14
one for training data. That's different because it's an
23:16
encyclopedia. It's not changing a whole lot
23:19
over time. You know, like on Reddit, a new
23:22
subreddit could be made and that's a whole new thing.
23:25
So Wikipedia, YouTube and form of video content, obviously the
23:29
transcriptions, LinkedIn is pretty big as well.
23:32
And then obviously all the other sources of like individual
23:36
websites and their on page optimization as well.
23:40
Yeah, I think Reddit still remains valuable because it's
23:43
constantly changing. You know, we're running into
23:46
these issues of needing synthetic data to train models
23:50
because there's no new data. Well, you know, they digested
23:52
the Internet, so it's like, all right, a platform where things
23:56
are still happening constantly is pretty valuable in that case.
23:59
And obviously that's not only Reddit, but I think that's where
24:03
it keeps its value. You know, they want people to
24:05
still be engaged. And you know, here's actually
24:08
one of my one of my predictions for the platform.
24:12
I actually think they'll crack down on automations at some
24:14
point because they are being paid to provide human data, and
24:20
LLMS need human data. So there's an incentive to make
24:24
sure it just doesn't turn into a bunch of bots actually on there
24:27
because Reddit, you know, goes bankrupt or becomes unprofitable
24:32
after 25 years of trying to make a profit.
24:34
And then obviously those AI companies will go to other
24:37
sources. So I actually think that they'll
24:39
try to incentivize human interaction for a very long
24:41
time. Yeah.
24:43
Do you remember the deal that they struck with Open AI?
24:45
It was staggering. Wasn't it?
24:48
Yeah, absolutely huge figures. I'm trying to remember the
24:52
number. 60 million comes to mind.
24:53
So Open AI has a deal with them, Google has a deal with them as
24:58
well. And also Sam Altman owns 9% of
25:00
Reddit stock, so he seems to be a fan. 60 million doesn't seem
25:04
like enough. Yeah, it seems kind of low for
25:08
Reddit. I think that was a good amount
25:10
of money and that might have been on an annual basis.
25:12
I would need to go back and look at some of those.
25:14
That was you're right, you know. Yeah, all.
25:17
Right. But still, yeah, it seems like I
25:20
hope they renegotiate that to 600 million.
25:24
I know if Shohei Otani is making like a billion dollars, you
25:28
know. Yeah, for sure.
25:31
I know I, I think they can probably do better.
25:33
But yeah, it definitely saved the company, man.
25:35
I think that there are probably like 2 hamsters in the
25:38
background keeping Reddit alive for a decade.
25:40
That company was, you know, just, and I think that that's
25:43
why we've kind of seen it remain so basic as far as their
25:47
technology goes is they're operating on a shoe strum for
25:49
decades. Yeah, and what a what a great
25:51
model, you know, and to the point of like just how important
25:57
LLM recommendations are. I can't tell you at this point,
26:01
like how many clients we've got from LLMA recommendation.
26:05
It's a lot, you know, when when you think about the
26:08
personalization of an LLM that you, you know, I mean, there's
26:11
already these fringe cases of people losing their mind and
26:14
falling in love with their phone and whatever, you know, but
26:17
also, you know, people eat balloons.
26:19
So, you know, there's always going to be friends, but all of
26:22
us like, you know, like I'm protective, like my wife is
26:25
like, hey, can I use your, your GPT?
26:28
I'm like, why aren't you using yours?
26:30
She's like, well, I don't want to ask mine this question
26:32
because it'll mess up my training data.
26:34
I was like, well, you're not messing up my training data.
26:37
Like I feel like, I feel like it gets to know you too.
26:39
And even a step further, you know, Sam Altman said that like,
26:42
I don't know, in the next couple of months, like you're going to
26:45
be able to have erotic conversations with your ChatGPT.
26:51
It's wild time you're. Sexting with ChatGPT now, which
26:55
is just again to say that like, you know, if, if you know, if
27:00
ChatGPT or Gemini or whatever is basically the smartest friend.
27:05
I know my trusted confidant about the financial matters and
27:09
my like online lover. And it's like, you know, where
27:13
should I go for for Reddit marketing?
27:15
And it's, you know, it's like ready reach.
27:17
That's what you're going to go with, you know.
27:19
So yeah, the potency of that, the definition is, is very, very
27:24
acute. Yeah, I don't think anyone ever
27:28
got emotional about Google search.
27:30
You know, we all used it for two decades now and it was honestly
27:34
incredible. You know, I love Google search
27:36
until now. But yeah, no one ever fell in
27:38
love or no one ever said, you know, like I asked Tri GVT for
27:42
advice and it's given me some great advice, I think.
27:45
And, you know, I've really appreciated that.
27:47
I say thank you to it. When was the last time you think
27:49
Google search? You know, it's never happened,
27:52
you know, so I think it is huge. And yeah, back to your kind of
27:55
original talk about brands and whatnot, brand suggestions.
28:00
So I think it's a couple things here.
28:03
Not only are people's buyer habits changing.
28:08
So we used to just go into Google search and then whatever
28:11
top 2 links, we just go to the website and we look at those
28:14
products and be like, all right, maybe I'll buy with this one.
28:17
Now it's like, I'm just going to ChatGPT or my favorite, lol M
28:20
and I'm typing in some questions and I'm doing a little bit of
28:23
back and forth narrowing it down with ChatGPT, not with anybody
28:27
else. But then it's like, all right,
28:29
here's three suggestions for you and you look at those and that's
28:33
pretty cool. And then you say, oh, hold on,
28:35
let me ask a human, where do humans hang out?
28:37
I'm going to go to Reddit and make sure that this seems like
28:40
pretty reasonable of an answer. And you go on Reddit and you see
28:43
some good comments there. So there's that side of things,
28:46
which is powerful enough in and of itself.
28:48
But then the next part of it, which is really crazy and I'm
28:51
sure you saw the news is ChatGPT release their buy it now button
28:57
in the app. So that is, man, if that doesn't
29:00
scare the crap out of any brand owner or manager.
29:04
Like imagine your website traffic going down by 95%
29:08
overnight because like now people don't go to your website
29:12
anymore. They just like ChatGPT either
29:14
recommends you or they don't and they just click buy now on the
29:17
app. That is, it's just really going
29:19
to change the game. Yeah, well, and you know, for
29:21
like independent businesses, it's going to be amazing because
29:25
the other thing Sam said is that they're going to prioritize like
29:28
Etsy stores and Shopify accounts, you know, where if
29:32
you're the owner of that Shopify account and you're getting your
29:35
butt kicked on Amazon, why people that are definitely
29:38
botting that are definitely, you know, game in the system or
29:41
there's just some nefarious IP breach from China that's getting
29:45
sold that's knocked off your product.
29:47
You know, now. And even if you're doing well on
29:50
Amazon, you don't have any of that customer data.
29:52
But if you got buy now coming straight from ChatGPT into your
29:56
Shopify account, you have all the customer data, you have
29:59
their e-mail address, you have the ability for follow-ups.
30:01
Like it's, it sounds like really cool for independent creators.
30:06
Yeah, I think it's huge. I think it's an incredible time
30:09
to be a builder in the age of AI, whether you're in e-commerce
30:13
or brand or just a founder doing something else.
30:16
One of my favorite tools out there these days is a tool
30:19
called Peekaboo. And we can put this in the
30:21
Strand. It's but AI peekaboo.com.
30:22
So it's AI search, Intel platforms, You just type in your
30:26
link and then it's like, oh, you're getting this traffic for
30:28
this key phrases from ChatGPT or cloud or things like that.
30:33
And man, these guys are only 6 months old.
30:36
They still have an at Gmail account address for their
30:38
corporate e-mail and they've got 3000 brands using their platform
30:42
already and you know, they used AI to build it.
30:45
I think it's incredible age for builders right now using AI the.
30:48
Best, it's unbelievable. I mean, just vibe coding alone
30:52
is like the best. So fun and so many
30:55
opportunities. It's interesting now because
30:57
everyone's like, oh, the AI bubble is bursting, which just
31:00
meant that like, you know, everybody tried to make their
31:03
agents and realize it's kind of hard.
31:05
And then it broke after a couple of weeks.
31:06
And they're like, oh, it sucks. You know, it's still just like,
31:11
you know, in its infancy. And the greatest builders don't
31:14
really know what the ceiling is yet.
31:17
You know, they're in Denver and I, I know you're in Colorado.
31:20
Where you at again? Yeah, for sure.
31:23
In the summertime we're in the Arkansas River Valley, and
31:25
actually the rest of the year we're in Tucson, AZ.
31:28
But yeah, Arc River Valley. Shout out to those guys.
31:31
Are you headed to Arizona yet? Oh yeah, I'm back in Tucson now.
31:35
So yeah, we got back a couple weeks ago the.
31:38
Arkansas River Valley is not where you want to spend
31:40
February. You got for a share when it gets
31:44
windy and cold. Yeah, anyway, in Denver, you
31:48
know, we have this really vibrant vibe code community and
31:51
it meets every Wednesday alternating.
31:53
So 1 is just people are demoing the tools they're building and
31:56
stuff with the AI tools and the other one is all generative,
32:00
like film and creative stuff that people are doing and it's
32:03
super cool. So I mean, it's like, you know,
32:06
it has the AI bubble burst. I don't even think we've even
32:09
like crested upon it. Yeah, I think there were just
32:13
going through some waves right now and just like any of these
32:17
boom and bust cycles, it just shakes out all the kind of
32:20
froths. You still have the incumbents
32:21
that keep growing, you know, they'll grow 20,000 times
32:24
larger. So yeah, I'm not even sure in
32:27
the first ending, honestly. Feels very very early to me.
32:31
Very early, very interesting. Let's talk a little bit about
32:33
the economics of your business. So I'm a brand, I'd love to hear
32:37
about your ICP. Let's say that me personally now
32:41
I had an idea that I tried to bring forward a little while ago
32:44
and I, I killed it. It was called the Blillow.
32:46
It was a pillow blanket called the Blillow.
32:50
And now with this new, this new announcement about Shopify, I'm
32:55
thinking about bringing the Blillow back.
32:56
So would I be a good candidate for your service?
32:58
Are you looking for something a little more well established?
33:02
Yeah, no, we help brands that are early on all the way through
33:08
to. We have a 110 figure brand out
33:09
there. I'm actually pretty proud of it.
33:11
I'm a customer of them and I'm pretty stoked to have them on as
33:14
a client. So yeah, we help everyone in
33:16
between. I've been helping small
33:18
businesses and startups through yours.
33:19
So that's kind of where the passion lies.
33:21
But yeah, as far as your Blillo goes, it's a great idea.
33:26
Consumer brands and like any obviously SAS founders can
33:30
market on Reddit, but consumer is huge.
33:32
Just for the by virtue of Reddit is consumer focused.
33:37
There's B to B on there for sure, but it's very much
33:39
consumer focused. And things that are household
33:42
goods or like furniture and mattresses, that's just like the
33:45
biggest Tam on Reddit imaginable.
33:48
So yeah, the blue low would probably do pretty well.
33:51
Bring it back, man. So you take the Blillo, do you
33:53
stuff old pillows in it? It's awesome.
33:56
OK, but only lighter. Yeah, for sure.
33:59
Cool. And then how do you approach
34:01
pricing? What is kind of your core offer
34:03
rates? Is it based on usage, how you
34:05
kind of doing pricing? Yeah, for sure.
34:08
Yeah, we believe in like one or two offers only.
34:11
So most of our clients are somewhere around 1500 bucks a
34:14
month to $2000 a month. That's kind of a starting point.
34:17
And that's for roughly one comment a day, 20 comments a
34:20
month. Yet again, focusing on really
34:23
high quality ones that actually move the needle.
34:26
The antithesis of just spraying links and spamming people and
34:30
stuff. We're our goal, as I told
34:32
people, is to have these things stick around for decades, to be
34:36
read and reread by tons of humans and tons of AI for years
34:39
to come. Yeah.
34:40
Amazing how big's the team. Yeah, our team is only about 5
34:45
people these days. We serve about 47 brands anyone
34:49
time currently. So yeah, we're a lean and mean
34:52
team. I kind of don't believe in huge
34:55
companies, just want to hire A plus talent and pay them really
34:58
well and we all do our thing and you know, get to kind of own
35:02
what we do. You're sad If I did the napkin
35:05
math, 2000 bucks times 47 clients is just about $100,000
35:08
monthly run rate. Is that about right?
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37:35
Yeah, we're high 6 figures annualized revenue these days.
37:39
Yeah, it's not a bad spot. You know, it's funny, I've been
37:42
in startups for about 15 years. Many failures, a few wins.
37:46
I used to drink the kool-aid of, you know, a billion dollar
37:49
company and now I kind of like my tiny little cash cow, as I
37:52
call it, you know, and just. I only work 10 hours a week
37:56
usually. I'm just sales and marketing
37:58
these days. My team has systems in place.
38:00
They know what to do. And yeah, it's funny.
38:03
There's all different ways to success and the billion dollar
38:06
are cool. I don't think those types of
38:07
companies are for me. Out here doing podcasts.
38:11
I mean, life sounds pretty good. You know, yeah, for sure it's
38:15
not bad. I agree.
38:16
You know, it's like building something that's hyper
38:19
profitable, that's fun. You know, I've never done a
38:22
venture backed company, but I've done a fundraising company.
38:25
But the stress and pressure that goes with many, many zeros is
38:31
crippling and debilitating. I mean, you know what they used
38:34
to call a lifestyle brand now just seems like a positive way
38:37
to live. Yeah, no, I think that's just
38:40
healthy. What is that Charlie Munger
38:44
quote? Common sense is the thing that's
38:46
most uncommonly actually done or something like that.
38:49
It's just like, yeah, everyone talks about it and nobody
38:52
actually does it, you know? Yeah, I know, I know.
38:55
Billion dollar company. It's like, boy, well now they're
38:58
like we're going to see our first one man billion dollar
39:00
company. I'm like, no, you're not.
39:02
You're just not going to do that.
39:03
You can't make enough AI agents to like handle, you know, the
39:08
amount of nonsense. It would be a one man billion
39:10
dollar company as the head explodes and bleeds out of his
39:13
eyes. That's what's going to.
39:15
Happen. Yeah.
39:15
I don't imagine a one man billion dollar company will last
39:19
20 years. You know, maybe he sells for a
39:21
billion dollars, but you know, then he goes and decompresses
39:25
for the rest of his life. I agree with you on that.
39:28
Yeah, it's going to be Elon's AI clone robot that's going to do
39:31
the first billion dollar. He'll have to fight his master
39:34
or something. Exactly, won't even be a human,
39:38
it'll just be a one AI billion dollar company.
39:42
Amazing. All right, Are you ready for the
39:44
lightning round? Yeah, let's hear it.
39:47
This is where the lightning strikes.
39:48
So you're obviously bullish on Reddit.
39:50
Is there a bear case on Reddit, or is there a reason brands
39:54
should not be on Reddit? Yeah.
39:57
Bear case. So actually some of the LLMS
40:01
about two weeks ago changed their ratio of how they're
40:06
citing different websites and Reddit.
40:09
Fell off quite a bit now it was like 90%, which is crazy.
40:14
That would never stay there forever.
40:16
It is now I've seen all sorts of data and nobody actually knows.
40:20
I've seen anywhere from 10% to 30%.
40:23
Now those are still pretty big figures to me, but maybe it goes
40:26
lower. Who knows maybe it goes to zero.
40:29
I think that they'll still want human data to train on that's
40:32
new everyday, but maybe it goes to 0.
40:34
I'm, I'm trying to be intellectually honest about
40:36
that. And yeah, so that might be the
40:39
bear case. What was your second question?
40:41
That's it. Yeah, I mean, that makes sense.
40:43
Obviously the LLM is a massive bump for Reddit marketing, but
40:47
even as a standalone product at Google indexes Reddit and people
40:51
go to Reddit looking for solutions.
40:53
I definitely do. My kids are probably using
40:55
TikTok more than anything else, but they have more pedestrian
40:58
needs. If I need to know who's got the
41:01
best black sweatpants, I'm going to check out Reddit for sure,
41:03
because they're going to have some good answers.
41:06
Yep, exactly, which might bring me to another question.
41:10
You know, just as far as like, you know, some markets are
41:13
heavily regulated on what they can advertise.
41:16
I'm thinking about cannabis in particular, is that would that
41:19
be like a good like customer for you?
41:23
Is somebody who's has like high regulations, you know, cannabis
41:27
company or alcohol even like where you're you're kind of in
41:31
the back door, you know. Yep, absolutely.
41:35
So, yeah, I mean, we do serve a few cannabis brands or cannabis
41:39
adjacent brands. I would say that if they've got
41:43
a good community on Reddit, like if there's a subreddit with a
41:46
tribe on there and there's a good amount of interaction on
41:49
those, I think it's a great fit. And certainly when you make it
41:52
relative to what statement, So high regulation industries like
41:57
a cannabis or ones of that nature, they can't do
42:01
advertising. So then when you make it a
42:03
relative statement, then of course it's like, yes, this
42:05
might be a great channel because it's all organic and there's no
42:09
rules against those on the subreddits.
42:11
So yeah, that could definitely be a good fit for some of those
42:13
industries and of course any of the other ones that aren't like
42:16
that. Yeah, you know, and that might
42:18
be controversial for some people.
42:20
Cannabis course, we're in Colorado, so it's like nothing
42:23
for us. But are there clients that you
42:27
have turned down because it affected you, maybe on an
42:30
ethical level? Was there any nefarious
42:32
political parties sneaking around?
42:34
Be like hey, join the vampire crew, Sway.
42:39
Some elections we have yet to sway an election.
42:43
So yeah, I do turn down some clients.
42:46
Honestly, the subject matter just makes me feel uncomfortable
42:49
because my team has to deal with this too.
42:51
It's not just me. You know, as I said, I'm just a
42:53
sales guy these days. So yeah, I think things in the
42:58
adult industry and what not, I usually tend to just pass on
43:02
because there are so many of us marketers, they're doing this
43:06
now that I'm like, somebody will snatch this right up.
43:08
But for me it's like I'm not looking to stress on my team.
43:11
We're we're big on playing long term games here at the company.
43:14
So yeah, some of those ones, they're just like, you know, if
43:18
we can pass on that. Oh so you're saying your team is
43:21
not sex positive? We are crudes, No.
43:27
Yeah, maybe we are. I don't know.
43:28
I got to check the most recent lingo on all this.
43:31
I feel like I'm getting older by the day.
43:33
That's interesting one. Yeah, the kind of sex industry
43:36
is always that's not a real bright line, but like if it's
43:39
like a product or technology, it's like, OK, that's cool.
43:42
But like when it's the personal brands is like when I'm like, I
43:47
don't know, it's just a gut feel.
43:48
You know, the other things that like the political spectrum
43:51
stuff too, either too far left, too far right, or too far into
43:55
quackery. It's like we just can't really
43:58
work with people that are mean on Twitter, you know?
44:01
Yeah, for sure. And I think it just goes back to
44:03
being a good person. And obviously none of that topic
44:06
matter means people are bad or what not.
44:08
But yeah, we got to show up to work every day and want to show
44:10
up to work. So yeah, we just try to focus on
44:12
what feels right. What would be a client you'd be
44:14
really excited to work with? Oh, I do love, you know, we're
44:20
getting really big into e-commerce, man.
44:24
You know, like, not that they would, but like Patagonia, just
44:28
like any good Colorado person, I'm trenched in the stuff,
44:31
wearing it head to toe or whatever.
44:33
Or a smart wool, you know, any of those kind of brands that I
44:37
use daily. I'd be like, oh, this would be
44:39
awesome to kind of support these guys.
44:41
I yeah, like I said, we do have a couple clients now where I am
44:44
a customer of, but I would say some of those brands I use daily
44:47
would be incredible. Yeah, I know.
44:49
It's like those are the ones that donate it.
44:51
Patagonia, you know, but yeah, for sure.
44:56
Exactly. It's not a tip of everyone's
44:58
tongue already, but yeah, you know, it is cool to see when
45:00
like there's a superior product that takes off from word of
45:03
mouth and like, a lot of times, I mean, that's what's great
45:05
about your service, is that like people just need that tip of the
45:08
tongue first because ultimately you're going to have to prove
45:11
it. You're going to have to back it
45:12
up. You know, that I, I'm a big fan
45:15
of like Kuyu, you know, their quality is kind of like, that's
45:20
still great. But like, you know, 10 years ago
45:22
it was like, man, there was absolutely nothing like it out
45:25
there, you know, and that all was word of mouth.
45:28
They didn't do anything. That's like creating that
45:30
natural buzz. And, you know, seating that
45:33
natural buzz, if you got the strength to back it up, is
45:36
probably the biggest bang for the buck.
45:38
I'm thinking, you know. Yeah, I totally agree.
45:42
And this kind of goes to one of the thing that I disagree with a
45:44
lot of my peers about. Everyone wants to brag about,
45:48
You know, I'm the marketer that really made this company super
45:51
successful. It's like, no, that company was
45:53
actually always going to be successful.
45:55
You just happened to be there at the right time and you poured a
45:57
little gasoline on it. You're a marketer.
46:00
You know, it's like actually we have.
46:03
We had one client, you know, that exited from 9 figures
46:06
during the pandemic. And just like huge successes.
46:09
They were always going to be successful.
46:11
They had a great product. You know, we just helped them,
46:14
but we just pushed a little. Bit totally, yeah, I have the
46:17
esteemed pleasure of being distinction, yeah, of being
46:21
having Denver's first social media agencies many years ago.
46:25
This is before Instagram, before Facebook business manager.
46:29
I got my start in digital marketing by making Myspace
46:33
pages for bands, you know, and so that transitioned into
46:39
Facebook. I was like, you know what, I
46:40
think brands could use this. And so we started doing that
46:42
anyway. We got pretty heavily leveraged
46:44
into food and beverage and hospitality naturally because it
46:48
photographs well, you know, but it was so interesting to your
46:51
point is that, you know, I would have two restaurants and one of
46:55
them everything I would post would get 2000 likes, 50
46:58
comments, the exact same, you know, approach to both
47:03
campaigns. And this one will get 2 and I'll
47:05
say well. This one's a good restaurant.
47:11
Nice, is there ACEO or entrepreneur that you follow
47:13
closely or admire? Shout out to a friend, Andrew
47:24
Udarian at e-commerce Fuel. He's got an incredible forum.
47:28
He's a close friend, neighbor, yeah, somebody I aspire to be
47:34
more like. Not only personally, how he
47:37
holds himself, how he treats others, but also successful in
47:40
business and how he grows companies.
47:42
But yeah, e-commerce Fuel is an incredible.
47:44
It's a private forum of I think 7-8 and nine figure e-commerce
47:49
brand owners where they just get to chat about all things
47:51
e-commerce and help each other. And he's the founder of that
47:53
great guy. Amazing.
47:54
He's a Colorado guy. Or Tucson.
47:57
Bozeman, Bozeman and Tucson. Actually amazing.
48:01
If you were entering college as a freshman right now, knowing
48:05
what you know, what would you study?
48:08
And I would have to stay in college.
48:10
And study something? Not necessarily.
48:13
Yeah, I mean, I think this is actually one of the hardest
48:16
questions in the world right now.
48:18
What do you tell your 17 year old kid to study a year from
48:22
now? I actually think it'll be very
48:24
clear five years from now. But at this very point in time,
48:27
it's like, really have no idea. Like, you know, white collar
48:31
jobs are maybe kind of becoming less valuable, but oh, wait,
48:35
software engineering is always valuable.
48:37
Hold on. No, it's not.
48:38
It actually has the largest unemployment rate of any
48:41
category currently. The software engineers 16 months
48:45
ago, that wasn't a true statement.
48:47
So I I would probably the recommendation would probably be
48:53
something very interdisciplinary and do a lot of internships out
48:57
in the real world. Understand what it means to
48:59
sell, understand what it means to work with people, understand
49:03
what it means to be a valuable teammate in human.
49:06
I think is way more important than the actual classes
49:09
themselves. And then obviously if you could
49:10
toss in Community College in the trades in there too.
49:13
Big time for the trades, I think these days, yeah.
49:15
No kidding. My daughter is a freshman in
49:18
college. Yeah.
49:19
What did you tell her? That was the guy who was like,
49:23
there's no question computer science, there's only one thing,
49:26
all you're going to learn is computer science.
49:27
And then what, 2022 GPT comes out, I'm like, okay, okay, we're
49:31
reversing course. So she's studying finance.
49:33
She'll be fine. Oh yeah, that's a pretty good
49:36
one too. Yeah.
49:37
And she'll be able to use AI too.
49:38
That's a great field where you have asymmetry to it.
49:41
You know, not all fields have actual asymmetry where you can
49:44
use AI to be more productive to a large degree.
49:47
I think that is 1. Yeah, I totally agree.
49:49
And she's just a natural entrepreneur.
49:51
So it's like, it's like, hey, you know, go do 10 years in a
49:55
big firm and then, you know, you'll be ready for your own
49:58
thing, your own abuse once you're ready to start out on
50:01
your own company. And then you'll be dreaming
50:04
about the day job after that. Yeah, nice.
50:07
Last question. What's something you know now
50:09
about Reddit that you wish you knew in the beginning?
50:17
I think. I am incredibly impressed.
50:21
I wish I kind of knew more about all the timing.
50:25
Super small subreddits. This has nothing to do with
50:28
marketing necessarily, or it could be, but the ones you know,
50:31
we all see the 1,000,000 to 10 million member subreddits, the
50:36
huge ones that we all see on our feeds.
50:37
But the ones that are incredibly super niche where you might
50:41
actually get to know some of these people because you
50:43
literally their handles are anonymous or suit anonymous, but
50:47
you do start to recognize them. I mean, you might get to truly
50:49
know them. I wish I would have known more
50:51
about that in the beginning and really kind of niched in on some
50:54
of those have been more. Love it.
50:57
There's some great ones. We've got a cat and a dog.
51:01
Our cat is a Norwegian forest cat.
51:03
They're the cool monstrous. Yeah.
51:06
And there's a Norwegian forest cat subreddit.
51:08
So good. Great cat pictures.
51:11
The subreddit. Maybe, maybe, maybe is a great
51:14
one, just like funny videos where you're just kind of like
51:17
on edge the whole time. Yeah, there's the two that would
51:22
probably come to mind. My favorite right now is obscure
51:25
music that slaps. Yeah, for sure.
51:31
It's a weird guy playing like a kazoo in the woods and you're
51:34
like, Oh yeah. This is good.
51:38
And what's even crazier is I'm sure there's a subreddit called
51:41
Obscure Bangers as well, you know, and they're like the exact
51:45
same thing and they're two different subreddits.
51:47
I'll have to check that one out. Nice Danny, this has been
51:51
awesome. I want everybody to check out
51:53
Readyreach, REDDIR, each.com, which is Danny's company.
51:59
Danny, what's the best place that people can connect with you
52:01
online? Yeah, for sure go to the
52:04
website. I'm very active on LinkedIn and
52:06
almost no other social networks. Otherwise you can type in Daniel
52:11
Kirk or Danny Kirk and ready reach.
52:13
You'll find this there. Yeah, shoot me a DMII have this
52:17
thing where send me Adm, send me your website and I'll just give
52:20
you a quick one through 10 score about your company.
52:23
My kind of hot take on it for for this sort of thing.
52:26
Amazing, love it. We also wanted to give a shout
52:28
out to the Boys and Girls Club of Chaffee County, which is
52:32
bgcchaffee.org and their mission is to inspire and enable all
52:39
young people, especially those who need us most, to reach their
52:42
full potential as productive, caring, responsible citizens.
52:45
Danny, it's been fantastic. Thanks so much for coming on the
52:48
show. Brian, thanks for having me.