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Interview with Catalina Osorio Galvis | Awakening into Grace · Alive & Kicking: Stories of Waking Up with Kay Eck

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Alive and Kicking Podcast.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Kay Eck, and this is where we talk to ordinary people about their extraordinary lives.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody, thank you so much for joining us today.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very excited to be joined by Catalina Osorio.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Good morning for me, Catalina.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Good evening for you.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Good morning.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for inviting me.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: So we I became acquainted with you through a couple of Facebook groups.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then about a month and a half or two months ago, I happened to catch your interview with Todd Medina.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I was so captivated by your story and your beauty and grace that I just wanted to continue the conversation because at the end of the conversation, you started dropping a lot of wisdom bombs that I was like, oh, if you guys had had another hour, you would have really been able to get into that.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to talk a little bit about your background, but I really want to get into the part where you're teaching us how you came through all of that and came into all of it.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: So you grew up in Colombia, and you by the time you were 10 or 11, you had moved to Bogota, and that was um an extremely violent and dangerous backdrop to your um to your teens, your early teens.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: But but prior to that, your life was also marked by a great deal of violence and danger and risk.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: She's talking, and I'm going to talk what I came through in my life, but it feels like a movie, right?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so the story of my movie is yes, I was born in Colombia in 1981, and so um in those years in Colombia, it was more or less the years of Pablo Escobar.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: So the violence outside home was continuously violence.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: So pressure, right?
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Continuously pressure on everyone.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Therefore, alcohol, therefore, violence.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you go in those kind of neighbors, you feel like it's prison.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone is like bars, you know, everywhere.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because people can come to your home to steal your things.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: So that was the general thing, right?
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Or somehow one day some someone can come my home.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because that was a neighbor, also, where people come and say, You you have some milk, and you know, uh it's very popular like that.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: So it has all those specifics, but people could come home and say, Oh, you remember this neighbor, his kid was killed yesterday.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: So that was the outside.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: And in my home, my whole mother family was um had a huge history of violence, like um everything was through hitting, punching, yelling, and that's the form of communication that we knew, right?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: But there were lots of traces of um sexual abuse.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: So what I said is like emotional and physical abuse, and there was also sexual abuse, pedophilia, and that creates such uh tension because there is so secret, right?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't say that, but you're constantly like feeling that, right?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so I had sexual abuse and physical abuse and moral abuse constantly from my mother, and from every everyone, in the sense that um they didn't even know how to instead of saying to you, okay, shut up, hug you, right?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it happens that I was a child because now I'm recognizing that hyper hypersensitive, so that is not very great in this kind of environments, right?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: So when I cried, it was like a stop, right?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Everything, stop, stop, don't complain, don't complain, don't complain.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I heard, and we were living with um my mother's one of my mother's brother.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: There was the person that abused me, and uh this guy has extreme violence.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I'm telling you extreme, it's like everyone has you know, it was stinged like this when we he started drinking because violence plus alcohol, not a very good idea.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I heard things like when he was like usually payday, he came very late, so all the doors were like closed, like I tell you, in jail, like many things to close the door.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: So he started like banging on the door, and I remember because I slept with my mother for a long time when I was a kid, and I remember my mother saying to me, it's like taking something to be ready to hit if you start hitting her, and saying to me, don't move and don't make a sound, right?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Stay in the room, don't move and don't make a sound, and that for a child is extremely, extremely traumatic, right?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then hearing all the things, and then my mother coming back to the bed, shaking, and so me near as a per high high sensitivity person, and very empathy, I was taking all that, and my mother too.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: My mother used to say things like um, yeah, she's mine, and if I want to kill her, I can kill her when she was enraged because of something, some things like uh I didn't want to eat meat, but it was so painful for her for me not to eat meat.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: That was the main core of the plate, and the thing that was the most expensive, so and for her, the thing that will help me more for my body, and I didn't want to eat meat, and that made her so enraged.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: But when someone said to her, well, stop, she will say, She's mine, and if I want to kill her, I can.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: So that was the kind of things, plus being hypersensitivity, in hypersensitivity all the time.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: And if I put something on me and start saying, No, I don't want to put that, have the chance, she didn't have the choice, she didn't have like a 20 sweaters for me or pick.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: No, you put this one and that's all, right?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: But for me, some things, and now at almost 40, I'm only recognizing that that's what I was wired, and yes, sometimes there are things, and it's not only the material, sometimes it's the energy which wish the material or the thing, the cloth was made.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I cannot stand it.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, but I couldn't say that to my mother, it wasn't possible for them to understand those kind of things.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it probably wasn't really possible for you to understand why you were being so difficult, you know.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yes, but when I when I look at all of that, now I I see it was made because I'm like uh going backwards because what happened is that um six years ago I I was suicidal, I was alcoholic, I was taking pills to sleep and recreational drugs, but very often, and um I was working too much, and I was like couldn't bear things anymore.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: And uh at that moment I start like remembering things, so um my feeling is like I'm going backwards, right?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Some people I hear like they are going towards the future, and I'm like remembering backwards, yeah, because my coping mechanism was to forget, and I wasn't aware that I I forgot my child, yeah.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Really, like it sounds crazy, yeah, but I wasn't aware that I forgot my childhood.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, in in a sense, it's that does sound crazy, but in another, on an on the other hand, it sounds completely reasonable that you in order to survive, you would have to forget.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because so that that must have delivered you into adulthood without a strong sense of who you were.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: If you one had all this incredible pressure as a child to survive and stay safe and become invisible and quiet, and to to develop a sense of self as a child, like to really know who you are, because that requires safety and silence, right?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then moving forward into adulthood, and then now you don't even remember where you've where you've come from.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, but for me, at um when I was a teenager, I my promise to myself was like this won't happen to me anymore, so I stop being silent to start being aggressive.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like I will eat life, right?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I will push through everything and anything, and I'm not a victim, right?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: And come to me and I will pass through you, right?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: So my childhood, I was like, don't say anything, and on my teenage years, I was like full of rage.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: So um that's kind of like a sink or swim, you know, it's survival of the fittest, right?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so that that probably was not who you really were either.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: That was something that you took on in order to survive in a way that was different from the way that you were surviving as a child, I guess, right?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, all the time, all the time, survival, all the time, and not only survival, but uh what I know now is that um I push the um we mimic other people, and this is how we understand life and how we learn things by mimicking, right?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: But um I was so lost on how I was, who I was, what I was, what I wanted, um that I start always like, oh, this is sounds good, I will take it, right?
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: And my mimicking, since I'm so um good at energies and mimicking and feeling things, and right, I start like taking people's lives, but to the point sometimes I took their their pains, their most of the time, but their sickness, uh, their way, right?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I start, I my whole life I was living people's lives in changing and being direct by everyone.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what would you want to go to the to the university?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: What you want to study?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, some I I heard someone talking about um psychology, and she was like so passionate and right that I wanted that, right?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm going for psychology, and then no.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I heard someone saying, Oh, you must be very good at business because you you talk to people, you're good, mmm, sounds good, business, then my whole life, right?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like a a balloon at sea, just tossed about and yes, yes, yes.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Trying to to feel something, also because I have I have not been in my body because mostly and uh I sometimes now when I remember some things and I have to feel the panic, it's not very uh right.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, now I'm used to right, and and it takes you like this, and I have moments when I had panic attacks on the street just by seeing a man crossing, crossing by, right?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so even so much of the terror that you experienced um as a child was hidden as well.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it would force itself out, but you weren't really, it wasn't really necessarily tied to a circumstance.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about the triggering event that began the unwinding of all of this.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I'm not very good with dates.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no worries, but um it must be 2002 because last time we thought I'm I kept saying 2012 and it's not 2012, it's 2002, right before I left Colombia and I came to France two years, one year or two years after that.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um we were with a friend in a bar and drinking and drinking and drinking because I was a binge drinker, and um we left to go to the to to go to sleep.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what what hour was that, and of course I was drunk, and of course we had um a fight, and so I said, okay, I'm going alone, and I start walking, and um what truly happened is that a group of guys came like teasing me because it was in the middle of the street, right?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: And but they like put themselves in a circle around me, and that triggered the remembrance of my childhood abuse.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I claim that I have been um raped.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: And right, so that started my life, like start becoming really, really weird and really painful because I was so sure, like I had this feeling that I had been raped, but a plus b plus c nothing was according to what you're saying, so you're crazy, or you search for it because you were drunk, and what were you doing alone at four o'clock in the morning outside?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was so used to have this.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: When I took a role, I was so used to go into the role all the way, right?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it's what we do, humans.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: We take a role and we go all the way on a point of view that we have what is to be this, right?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: So if I claim that I was raped, I will make the the story and I will go with it, no matter what, but on the Inside, I was so afraid, my god, I'm losing it, right?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then at some point I said, okay, I'm losing it, and so I start not sleeping, and I start going to the psychiatry, psychiatric.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Psychiatrist.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I I went to the hospital and um I was so used to my whole life to invent my life, right?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: And to have roles that I I our conversations were so strange because I had to continue the role, and she was a big professional, and she was believing me, and I was getting even more afraid.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: How is she not aware that I'm telling stories?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: And this fear of not knowing, because at that moment I was playing the role because I was sure something happened, but the reality was showing me the police, my friends, and everything, nothing was you couldn't have been raped at that moment because it couldn't have happened.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I was really literally losing it.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm I know it happened.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: I have to take the role.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm even convincing the chief of staff of the psychiatric area, and I was losing it.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: So many times I went to facilities, little facilities, for a few days, because what she knew is that I was just like in panic attacks, and that so but the thing is that she gave me so much drugs that when I was outside, I was completely drunk, completely, and one day I just I was almost hit by the car, and I knew that it was me walking like a walking dead, and I cut the drugs altogether, not a very good idea, but that was me, you know.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: Taking a roll, cutting a row, taking another roll, cutting a roll, you know, like taking liars, right?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: And and yes, I'm so strong that I at some I could do that every time I was like cracking up a little bit, but I could do that, so I stopped everything, and I invented myself alive, and I knew a guy, and I started with him, and uh okay, this is my hero, this is it, this is now now this is it, but things were getting catching up, right?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because no emotion, no energy that is there without looking at it and dissolved it, left is there, right?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: The information is there, so things were getting difficult and difficult and difficult, and for a strong man that practiced sports, stream sports, and all that, suddenly he just made a heart attack at 29 years old, and we start something like uh he started uh having he had um not a pacemaker but a machine, but we start living with uh something like anytime at any moment he could make heart attacks, and I saw him make 22 in one single moment, so I start not sleeping because the role that I took was you will not die under my surveillance, because his father died like that during sleeping time, so I stopped almost stopped sleeping and that for five years.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Really, like I slept the little thing in the air could wake me up, and so I slept like I don't know how, and so coffee, alcohol, right, and all those things to keep up, but in 2016 I was I I I was at the breaking point, and uh again, hypersensibility and um living with someone who is him that is the sick person, it's not me, so you cannot complain, right?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: I was in total panic, and it was me who stayed for 11 hours when he was uh being under surgery.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was for 11 hours waiting for news, but everyone said to me, like it's not you who were on the table, right?
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so the story of my life, right?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: Don't complain, you can complain, and it is not up to you to complain, it's the others that are leaving the things, not you, right?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the thing is that now I recognize that I can even leave the things people is leaving without them to knowing that they are living, but that was too much, and I didn't even know that.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I was at the breaking point, and so I was suicidal, really, like every day of my life.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: I start my life saying, Oh my god, hopefully today is the end, and I was living in Paris at the time of the bombings, and the most incredible thing is that one day before one of the bombings, I was in the same street that one guy shoot at people.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: I was in one restaurant like here, and two restaurants after the guy like took, I don't know, 10 lives, something like that.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: And in my head, I said, Oh my god, not chance.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: One day, just like I missed it for one day, and that day I said, Oh my god, this is so sad, really.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I start looking at it, it's really, I really want to die, but when it became so difficult, I never I always claimed that I wasn't religious and I couldn't.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: And Catholic religion was like a painful to me, but I didn't knew better.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: I always knew something was outside because I I felt it outside and very far, but I always knew that it was something greater, but it wasn't Catholic religion, not for me, right?
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: But the only thing I knew was Catholic religion, so I went to church and I said, Okay, I don't know who you are, and I don't know if you know me, but either you take me or I want to be free and happy.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, I needed to look at the unhappiness to today being laughing and not because I need to make a good face, no, because I really feel that, but it didn't start with the happiness, yeah.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: It starts with sickness, and it starts with um things moving up to be seen.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: So the sickness part was that I went to the gynecologist and he said to me, Yeah, okay, um out of nowhere, because six months before nothing was there, you have like I had 10 fibroids, but two of them were so big that he said to me, It is most probable, probably probably most probably we will have to take your womb off.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: But I sort of heard a voice that say to me, now this is the that this is the choice point.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: If you do that, you really know in your heart what is going to be the road, right?
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Oh my god, no, no, and not even because I wanted to be a mother, because at that point I was like, Oh no, I don't want I spent my whole life denying myself that I wanted to be a mother because I was so afraid to be my mother, and because I saw my siblings being my mother, so I was so sure that I was going to be my mother, that I for me was so clear I cannot have a child, I cannot do that to a child, but it wasn't that it's just that I knew if if I was going to surgery and that take my womb off, I will never had the experience of other things, and that I knew I don't know, like even see it without seeing, but I knew what was going to happen.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I quit my job and I start looking at what was happening.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: The thing is that I said, it will take me six months.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: And six years after, there we go.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't figured out everything.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still discovering.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it sounds like you, you know, you sort of like took this Catalina attitude that you were gonna crush this part of your life, like you were gonna get through all the hard part and then step into the happiness in in six months, but it obviously didn't happen that way.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: So you started to have to rewind your life, step back into your life.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: Why was that such a necessary component?
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, no, I didn't choose that.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: Really not because I wasn't aware that I that I forgot my life.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: For me, and really I know it sounds crazy.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it was normal, like, but I was afraid my mother has Alzheimer's.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes when I was with um people from school, they had so much memories about the school and the people of the school, the teachers and stuff, and I was like, oh my god, I really don't know who these people are.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Make make sounds like you are in the conversation, but I wasn't.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I was afraid that I was losing my memory, but I really wasn't aware that I have really lost my child.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: So really, I was losing my memory.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: I was going into my mother's bath.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: I probably would have ended up there, and with the alcohol and my central nervous system that was like in red more than in red.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't a choice because I wasn't a word that I had to remember.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: It started happening.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: Things like, for example, one day I was looking at a movie that's called um, it's an Asian movie, it's called Parasite, and I went to see this movie because they want um an Oscar.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I went to see the movie and uh like oh my god, I saw, you know, they had um a home that um from time to time what floated with the water of the canalizations, yeah.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because when there was so much rain, the water uh got up like that, and there was floating in this all this awful water, and it happened when I was a child, and I didn't remember that, and it was in the middle of the movie, and like a boom, right?
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't the choice for me, and everything that I started to remember happened exactly those kind of things.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, like out of nowhere, a sound, something, and I had oh my god.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: The thing that I told you uh about my mother saying to me, don't move, don't make a sound, and all stuff was I had neighbors that you drink and then get into fights.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: And at first was my trigger.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, they are so rude, oh my god, they drink, oh my god, and but now I know when there's a trigger, there's something something that is hidden that needs to be acknowledged.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I asked to knew what was happening, and then one day, boom, I had the whole thing, right?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I I didn't choose to remember it's coming like that for me.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: But at some point, so early on in that process, it sounds like you were feeling like more of like you were losing your mind, that you didn't understand what was happening.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: But at some point, it sounds like you recognized that this was the path of healing and you accepted it as that.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: Can you recall when that moment was and how yes, the moment the moment when my my gynecologist said to me, We will take your womb off.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: That at that moment I knew that if I took this option, it wasn't going to be very good end.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so I took the other option, but not knowing where to start, not knowing what to get on, right?
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: I just knew that I couldn't take the option he was giving me.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: And and and yes, at that moment I say six months and rot, right?
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I start with meditation and but couldn't meditate.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but I just all the right all the things that so it's right, all the uh when dire reading and and that was my path of healing, if you if you want, but I haven't had a plan, and I still don't because things just come for me, like really everything just presents to me.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: When it's the moment, it happens.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: When it's the moment to discover something, it comes.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you've never really had to search for this and that to help you through, it's just always appeared.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: Always like uh even one video to lead me to one person that say to me, oh, this person might help you, oh this, oh this, oh this, oh this, oh this, and of course, at the beginning was like uh like exactly like I did my whole life.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: Whoa I was so taken by their story, or I find that they were powerful, or so ah, I want that, I want that, I want that, I want that, and but uh now I recognize it doesn't happen like that, right?
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: But no, I haven't had a plan, and I'm still discovering things, and mostly I'm discovering what I like, what Catalina is like my whole life.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't like swimming, it wasn't my fear, it was other people's fears.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: Now I so love swimming, things like that, really like things like that.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: I believe my whole life that I was afraid of swimming, and now I just when I get to recognize that this fear wasn't even mine, really like I went to a swimming pool and I swam like or even stayed, not only swim, but stayed like for hours, and yeah, it's what do I like to eat, right?
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because I I I ate what was hype to eat or what is in France, how do you have to eat when you're a woman or in Colombia or here or right, right?
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: But never what do you like to eat, or don't you like to eat?
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I never had a plan, but everything came perfectly.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm still discovering things exactly like I told you.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Some day just like this, I had the whole picture coming, and then I used to not.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Now, because now I know that it happens like that and just allow it.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: But at the beginning, I had to call my sister and say, that sounds like this sounds like possible for you.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, Yeah, of course.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's my uncle.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: Is don you remember?
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Yeah, I'm remembering, right?
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I had to, I had to call my sister to ask if I wasn't like in that complete delirium.
• 44:37
  unknown: Yeah.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: There it's like there's this interplay that threads its way through your life of what reality is, you know, what the what the truth is, and the truth of your experience, and what you can trust, and what has been hidden, and what has been forced upon you.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that is really a common element of this process that we're in right now.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like becoming someone, it's taking off all the things that have been put upon you and conditioned in you to figure out what the essence was from the beginning, who who you are, who you are and who you always have been.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that's you're you're you're doing it in such an extreme way.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I I've chosen a path that is um always on the edge.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, all the way, all the way, all the way, but um now I know it it's not necessary, and that's that's that's what is beautiful, that I can for sure say to people, it is not necessary.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: Something that you said in your um interview with Todd that I found really interesting was that, well, first of all, you said that you you don't really consider that you're overcoming your story, it's more that you're welcoming it in, and that this process of welcoming it in, I guess you could call it integration, is um it quite different than than like owning your story, which has like a little bit of a gripping feeling to it.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I was wondering if you could talk about that a little bit.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I I have profound no knowing that um what I want to say is that all this is a misunderstanding, right?
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: What I'm discovering is all this is a misunderstanding, right?
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: The misunderstanding of my mother never loved me.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: No, she didn't even know for her what love was.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: She was loving me as much as she could, right?
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: For me now, all of this is just a misunderstanding because minds are can only understand from a point of view, right?
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: So if it feels good your mother being like a codles, and but you don't have that now, she doesn't love me.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: And nothing that I have have that had that I have lived right now for me is just a bunch of misunderstandings.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't looking at understanding the other, I was just looking to satisfy my point of view, even as a child, even as a child, and so I'm not, and by the way, and I do have lots of respect for everything that people do to feel better and to their stories and to become their own selves and to become free and to become one, not unite, one, but I have never had success with the child, inner child work because at some point, more or less, all the techniques that I had encountered of childhood, uh inner child work, at some point they'd ask you to nurture your child, inner child that was in pain or that was in panic, or that, and I can understand that.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: I can understand this point of view, but go tell Catalina six years before to say to your inner child, well, everything is going to be fine.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't okay, it would have been a lie.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't, and I I I I wasn't in a place to nurture nothing, and what I do know now from where I see life now, today, right here, right now with you at this moment, is that if it's not available for everyone at every moment, it's not for me because grace is available for everyone at every moment, and grace is not complicated, and grace doesn't demand that you have to start three years after, or that you have to wait to be ready to know.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: So these techniques that again, please believe me, I respect and I understand cannot be applied for everyone, and if I cannot be applied for every everyone, for me is that is not what I call grace because grace doesn't left people outside.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: I have complete goosebumps with you saying that because that opens up this huge, huge, huge space for everybody to experience their own way, their own version, their own healing, their own miracle, because it can be miraculous, it can occur in an instant for people, and it can take six years, or it can take 50, or you know, it just it just there's no rules, or I love that so much.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: That is so profoundly beautiful and hopeful too.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that must is that the source of your faith?
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because at some point you must have had to have some faith that things could get better or could be better in order to carry on.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, my source of faith is it was was rage.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, like uh this is unfair, and uh that is why I I like so much people talking about um emotions, and so emotions are not good, and how I say things is that every emotion is like everything is energy, and energy is not different energies, it's just energy, right?
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: At different um spectrums and different vibrations, and um are um felt or experienced are heavier than others, but most of the time it's just what we have as a point of view of what this is, so we assign value, some sort of value to it, good, not only value, but a concept, a whole concept, and of course, uh anger on one spectrum of anger is rage and what I lived.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_00: So for my mind, and many what we see is normal that mindset this is not good, so anger is not good on the other side of the spectrum.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: Most of the time is when you're angered that you said this has to change, right?
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the same energy, right?
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just one side of another side of this spectrum, right?
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like for me, it's not linear, it's circular because it goes in cycles, right?
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I it wasn't fate for me, it was rage.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is unfair.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_00: When I start recognizing what happened to me, was this is unfair, and even someone has to to to to almost pay.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like she never said she's sorry, and now she's Alzheimer's, right?
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh my god, she did all this, and now she just left.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: This is so freaking unfair, so I kept because it was so unfair.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: So me anger took me a life.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: I won't and I believe, and I believe people are mistaken things sometimes because fear and anger.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: I heard so much, fear doesn't want you to, or you have to get rid of fear, or you have to get right, like a we are in a vendetta against fear, and of course, fears paralyze you, and of course, fear makes you go into even more illusions about what is not good for you, and fear is in a part of our brain that will disappear while one fear won't be there anymore because we are not going to be animals anymore.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: For a moment, we are almost like animals, we're acting like animals, but when you take fear and you just go into that, don't give it that name, and you just go into that fear, and you just say, Okay, you just allow it.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_00: You can feel into your body, is one of the emotions that makes you feel into your body.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's my experience, right?
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_00: But you feel the the blood, right?
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_00: You feel like this rush of blood, you feel and you can feel this power of your body, because of course you can run from uh where you are because there is a tiger, right?
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you take this energy, just feel your body, and don't buy into the stories, not even about what fear is or what fear is not, or what triggered fear in you, but you just feel into this energy, all energies had something for you, yeah.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_01: I can relate to that so much because fear certainly was my path to grace too, because I it was I had to get to a point of surrender because I had so much of it and I could not live with it anymore.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: It just was too much, and I just like you said, I just surrendered into it and let it wash right through me, into me, through me, out of me, and I recognized that it was just an energy that I was choosing and I could be with it or not, and that really changed my life.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_01: I still experienced fear.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was especially on planes, and it's like my now I see it as my opportunity to revisit, revisit an old friend and figure out what it, you know, what it has to teach me or what it how how human you know to get back into that really human experience.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I love that yours was rage, that's really really powerful.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um that you said, and I think I I I chatted with you a little bit about this, is that you said that um there is no higher perspective without the lower experience.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_01: And if that and if you are counting on the higher perspectives of others, it might be bypassing.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_01: Can you talk a little bit about that?
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for example, at some point I was like, this is unfair, this is so freaking unfair, and someone and everyone should say sorry to me for what they did to me, and right, I was so in pain, enraging really pain, right?
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_00: And um I remember these um practices of for for forgiving and oh poho no po and no poho no po I don't know, I can't remember how that happened.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I found that beautiful, but it still like was like no, no, someone has to say something to me, right?
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_00: But at some point I was tired of fighting what and who is going to say I'm sorry to you, it's over, and I went to a meditation, and then I saw a friend.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_00: We were uh getting some sessions uh with some meditations, and at the end of the session, I just yeah, like saw my mother that wasn't really exactly her um face, and and I just say to her, and my friend was leading me to to normally to like get out the rage, right?
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like say to her, like, okay, right, this is the space, and what my soul chose to do was to show me this, it wasn't in a no space because it wasn't white, wasn't black, wasn't there is not a color that I can describe to you.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_00: We were in the no space, and I say to her, Oh my god, thank you for having done all that being the bad guy, so I have this experience.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for agreeing for that, and if I hadn't had the experience that I had, I wouldn't be able to say to people that even forgiving, what are you going to forgive to someone?
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_00: That they agree to have so much pain to inflict pain to you so you can hard your experience?
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_00: What is there to forgive about?
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't if I didn't have all that experience that I had, I never I'd come to this point where I know there is nothing to forgive.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing to no one, no matter how it appears.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_00: We do not inflict pain without being in pain.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_00: There is no way, okay.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_00: There are people here that are not people and that have some agendas, and okay, all of that, but they have the same source, and they are giving here for you.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_00: Either you discover it or you continue forgiving.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_00: But if you continue forgiving, you will continue, and you are continuously somehow, even if it's the slightest, you are then still attached to something that someone did to you.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_00: Detach and you will see that there is nothing to forgive.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, I think that's gonna be hard for people to hear because we do want to hang on to our victimhood because that's righteous, and we want to be righteous.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes, I was in rage.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, of course, and it was so much rage that the moment I I had the opportunity, right?
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_00: My friend guiding me into a meditation.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_00: This is the moment you can say to her, and what my essence showed me is that you see what she played for you, and I was like, in in oh, oh my god, yeah, and then really I remember that, and I'm still feeling this.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, yeah, what we need to play for others, yeah.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_01: That kind of like we're we're playing the roles of perpetrator and victim, but that's not who we are, that is our service, of course, yeah.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's not easy to be the victim, but to be the bad guy.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_00: To be the bad guy, yeah.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_01: So that's like that's you you've asked for twice as much pain because one, in order to be the perpetrator, you have to be in pain, and then you have all the feelings.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: That come with causing harm to somebody that is a harder role.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_01: And we we, I mean, truthfully, we're both at the same time.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we you can't even be one without being the other.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_00: And and and and by letting them sometimes we when we are in the loop, like the same story, even in a we are also inflicting pain.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_00: Don't get you wrong.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_00: Look at it, look at what it is, and you're inflicting pain by letting the other play in this game, yeah.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right, so that is what I probably was talking about.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_00: This is you have to add the the flesh experience to have the higher perspective, and of course, when we read all this I cartoly, I was like, Oh my god, yes, but sometimes it's avoidance.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_00: Avoidance is not only about fear, it's not my perspective.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_00: Avoidance is about choice.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_00: We don't avoid things looking at things because we are fearful all the time, no, because we have the power of choosing not to see some things, and sometimes we live, and believe me, I know what is living, other people's stories, so I see that so much.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_00: People that take what others say and just repeat that, and you know, like say and say this is like this, they are not having their experience, they are living or believing they are living other people's experiences.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_00: But if you don't go through that, you won't find out what is it that you came here to transmit.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because you can have lived exactly the same experience as me, and don't didn't came come here to transmit the same thing about the same experience.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because right, I'm not the only child that had had difficult experience, and my experience can be nothing that is always comparing more pain, less pain, more difficulties, less difficulties.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_00: Pain is pain, difficulties are difficulties.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's all.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's also what I think, what I know about pain.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't compare mine to other people's.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then you would have to, then you would have to not complain.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you came across somebody who you perceive to be in more pain, then you have no right to speak of your pain.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, yeah, of course, you're saying and and and and or or I will invalidate other people's stories.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, now I know their stories, yeah, but I still know that they are living it.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that is some really masterful living when you can get to the point where you understand how in service everything really is to you, and that you've designed it that way, like it's completely flawless in its execution.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes, and from my perspective, what is going to happen will happen, and if I talk about my stories, because they are stories, is because I know for sure that people will start having crisis experiences because we live in denial.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I forget that I forget my childhood, but people forget that they are in pain, and somehow many people will start, and I know for sure because people is reaching out, and I know, and I listen stories, and people are going to start seeing how in pain they are, and I tell what happened to me because this is what uh in psychology we call recollection, and uh people will start recollecting things, yeah, and they are going to start recollecting things that they are not even theirs, also like it happens to their grandmothers, and so because things are going to start, it's time to to see that, and this is why I yes I agree to tell people what happened to me because someday maybe they will listen to this and will say, Oh my god.
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm on it.
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right, right, absolutely.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's why we're here.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we're here.
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we're going to link the um interview that you did with Todd um in the notes because you talk in a lot more detail about what happened to you and that people might be curious about that, or again, it might serve to help them recollect some pain that they've been holding on to.
• 1:13:03
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I think you're right, like it's just a vibratory truth that if we're moving into higher frequencies, then the lower frequencies must come up and out.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, and and our foundations are our fear and um are fear, and so to get the foundation right, we have to see what's happening in the foundation, yeah.
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_00: I I promise you it, I promise you to all those that everything is going to be alright.
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, isn't it funny how sometimes the recollection of the pain is almost harder to endure than the actual experiencing of the original experience of pain?
• 1:14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, because actually you by the way, but the sometimes the shock happens so fast, right?
• 1:14:24
  SPEAKER_00: But when you recall it, when you remember that, then your mind starts attaching even more stories, right?
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_00: To what happened, what happened could have been just one word from your mother, like shut up, right?
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_00: So much at that moment, you know, it goes exactly here, here, and right, and this energy has been created and is there, but when you remember that then you my mother didn't love me, my mother was this, my father was that, and so is all all the pain comes with the recollection.
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_00: All the pain, yeah, okay.
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this seems like a good time to move into our lightning round.
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, all right, thank you so much for all that.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, my first question for you is actually a request, and that is can you describe your relationship with peace?
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because I heard you um speak about this on Facebook.
• 1:15:51
  SPEAKER_01: I saw a post that the difference between being peaceful and being in peace or at peace, and I was wondering if you could talk about that a little bit.
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um being peaceful from my perspective is when we get everything that we wanted so much for, right?
• 1:16:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so people, oh finally, right?
• 1:16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like even my home decoration done finally, right?
• 1:16:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you feel peaceful, ah, after all this excitement and all this.
• 1:16:37
  SPEAKER_00: I finally I did it, and then because of course it will last this, and then your mind will need to find out another thing, another project, even and right, so it's a constant looking for something being at peace from my perspective, where I live, is that even that I have a project or not, even something happened that I wasn't expecting, or that is shocking, breathtaking, anything, I'm in allowance of it, and some things that I wish for can happen or not, right?
• 1:17:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in allowance of this, right?
• 1:17:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not at peace all the time, I'm getting good at allowing things, and so getting in that vibration, and once you're in that vibration, you are not looking for things that give you peace, yeah, right?
• 1:18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right, wow, because otherwise it's like we are looking, yeah, projects or and ah finally, yeah, but how long it lasts?
• 1:18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Just give me one person that will say to me that one of those things have given them an state of peace, yeah, uh long-lasting.
• 1:18:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's no, it's just like a I don't have this project anymore.
• 1:18:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you feel no more pressure for me.
• 1:18:55
  SPEAKER_00: That being peaceful, being peaceful for me is not that I talk like this and everything is rainbows and no is like when there is no rainbow, it's okay.
• 1:19:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for me that that experience is like um no matter what is happening around me, I like am connected to my source essence.
• 1:19:34
  SPEAKER_01: That that's what brings me peace in in no matter what situation, and frankly, I feel more connected to that when things are chaotic around me and I am feeling scared or I am feeling uh worried or whatever the case may be.
• 1:19:51
  SPEAKER_01: I I once you know how to tap into that, you can experience both simultaneously.
• 1:19:57
  SPEAKER_01: You can come back.
• 1:19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's not there once you but it it requires cultivating too, because if I let myself become distracted with my circumstances and doing things and being places, I can lose that connection a little bit.
• 1:20:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I have to, it's something that I have to cultivate regularly.
• 1:20:20
  SPEAKER_01: I have a I'm committed to cultivating that relationship with my essence or or being in that space.
• 1:20:30
  SPEAKER_00: I understand what you say.
• 1:20:32
  SPEAKER_00: For me, this experience I will say more like um we are still uncovering this relationship that is always there and this place that is always there, place, no place, self-self that is always there.
• 1:20:51
  SPEAKER_00: So um I wouldn't say that I that my practice is like commit to to that, but my practice is taking out everything that is making me believe that I have to come back to something, right?
• 1:21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because actually I'm there.
• 1:21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:21:23
  SPEAKER_01: I see what you're saying.
• 1:21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, number two, when did you first realize that you liked yourself?
• 1:21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Or have you gotten there?
• 1:21:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yes, one day that I was singing, I don't have a very beautiful voice, but I was singing like a you know, it I don't know.
• 1:21:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, and and and I always choose the kind of songs that are so difficult to sing, like like a prince or queen for sure, right?
• 1:22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Arita Franklin, right?
• 1:22:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't go for the the easy ones, and one day I was just singing in in my mind, like uh oh my god, shut up, right?
• 1:22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like you you have hurt yourself, and I just had this moment that no, I haven't hurt myself, I don't freaking care.
• 1:22:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not thinking to be the voice, I'm thinking to be happy, what the hell?
• 1:22:47
  SPEAKER_00: So at that moment I say, yeah, what what's what's the freaking chat in in my mind, and I'm I'm not doing things to be this or that if if it just brings happiness to one and that one is me, it's worthy, and that's all.
• 1:23:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I keep singing the most difficult songs.
• 1:23:19
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that's kind of something that I'm like, I it's a it's a path of discovery for me, you know.
• 1:23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like you take one two steps forward and one step back, and some of the things, and because you're new in every situation, so one of the things that triggers me and my um, you know, how I feel about myself is aging, and that is serving me in that way to be examining how I feel about myself and my human experience, and sometimes I don't like it.
• 1:23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um okay.
• 1:23:59
  SPEAKER_00: You talked about I I I like I I I like how you look like very much.
• 1:24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um so we talked about this a little bit earlier, so I'm really curious what are some of the foods that you found that you you like that you didn't think you liked?
• 1:24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the foods well the thing is that I more fun find out, for example, that um that I more about the foods, what kind of foods no, I was pretty much the kind of person, I became the kind of person that tastes everything before, but what I find out now is that there are some days that I don't want to eat, and that's not a problem now is day to drink water.
• 1:25:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, and and so more what you you like now is more like I became no problematic about food.
• 1:25:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh about um it's not that I'm not problematic, my roommate will would not agree with that, but um I became like it's not an obligation for me to eat every day and at this o'clock and this o'clock and this o'clock sometimes no, and even uh sugar that there is so much vendor about sugar, and and yeah, no, sometimes I eat chocolate for dinner, and that's cool.
• 1:26:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's okay.
• 1:26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I think there's so much that we are going to be discovering about our relationship with food, and I have experienced a lot of similar things where I'm like food just in general doesn't hold as much interest to me as it used to.
• 1:26:43
  SPEAKER_01: It used to be like a big source of enjoyment, I guess you could say.
• 1:26:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, now it's like you know, sometimes I really love eating and sometimes I don't, and sometimes things like right now, my body does not seem to want to eat any grains at all.
• 1:27:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh what you know, whatever.
• 1:27:03
  SPEAKER_01: I just go with the flow.
• 1:27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I want to eat meat, sometimes I don't, sometimes I just want to have juice or water and yes, and uh for me the most important thing about food is that I become aware.
• 1:27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I become aware of some things, like uh this thing that I'm eating, mmm, like uh I don't know the chicken and this kind of how they raise chicken just to kill them and put into your plate.
• 1:27:38
  SPEAKER_00: And really, I I I can I I don't know, my body is like in front of no, no.
• 1:27:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so I won't impose to my body something that is not, I don't know, something that my body doesn't want.
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:28:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I but I find myself also, because I'm not perfect at this, that I will eat something out of habit or because I thought I liked it.
• 1:28:10
  SPEAKER_01: I liked it before, not really listening to my body.
• 1:28:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then I have to apologize to my body.
• 1:28:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
• 1:28:17
  SPEAKER_01: I did that.
• 1:28:18
  SPEAKER_01: I love like I love I used to love lentils.
• 1:28:21
  SPEAKER_01: I love, I still do.
• 1:28:22
  SPEAKER_01: I love lentils, but my body does not like them.
• 1:28:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh it's in our minds, huh?
• 1:28:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:28:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's in our minds.
• 1:28:30
  SPEAKER_01: And some like there's some kind of connection between taste and happiness.
• 1:28:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like there's some kind of unconscious correlation that and and and if you look at the closely, sometimes you're eating things that are green, and and and it has to do with your vibration, what you need, and uh by the colors and go with the colors.
• 1:28:58
  SPEAKER_00: People are not aware, but sometimes we need to eat a color, not a food, but a color.
• 1:29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 1:29:08
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and look at if you do mandalas and you want to eat something, and you look at your mandalas, then you will see that you're painting more of that color.
• 1:29:19
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you need to eat a color.
• 1:29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, that is so interesting because I've been obsessed with green lately.
• 1:29:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like I everything that I'm choosing is green.
• 1:29:32
  SPEAKER_01: I bought a car, it's green, I painted my walls green.
• 1:29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, your your heart, your your sometimes our hearts are opening, and and this this center really has a color and uh just you still a vibration.
• 1:29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Colors has vibrations and like everything, and so it's a correlation lead you to something.
• 1:29:57
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes you're not even eating eating because of this or that, you're eating a color, you're eating a vibration, and this sugar thing.
• 1:30:09
  SPEAKER_00: I understand it.
• 1:30:10
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, it's not good for the pineal or bad uh, all those are concepts.
• 1:30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the amount of energy that you're taking is too much, and yes, you have to take your pineal and make it not that bigger because you will lose it, so you eat chocolate or you eat sugar because you are regulating things, it's just a matter of perspective.
• 1:30:35
  SPEAKER_00: Never forget that I don't know, maybe yes, but I don't know if it's that someone here in this planet that could tell you every perspective possible for what is happening to you, so go with it until it doesn't feel good to you, not to someone or right, right?
• 1:31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Go with it because it has a why.
• 1:31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it has a why, it has a why.
• 1:31:10
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 1:31:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, is there something on your to-do list that never gets done?
• 1:31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, to iron my my t-shirts.
• 1:31:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't iron my t-shirts.
• 1:31:33
  SPEAKER_01: I hate ironing.
• 1:31:35
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes I'm just like huh.
• 1:31:39
  SPEAKER_01: It looks fine, yeah.
• 1:31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:31:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, my last question for you is do you have a calling in life?
• 1:31:49
  SPEAKER_01: A calling?
• 1:31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like what I'm calling to do in life, what I think I'm called to do.
• 1:31:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, well, I love I love to talk, so I probably will end up talking.
• 1:32:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know where, but I love to talk, I love to talk, and um one of the ways I um perceive um uh energy is by the vibration of the sounds, um and so and so I I know many, many, many, many things pass through the vibration of the sounds of the words that we choose.
• 1:32:41
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, the concept we have on the words that we choose, um, the collective concept of the words that we choose, and our voice has a particular um imprint, and it it is touching the ones that are hearing it in a particular way.
• 1:33:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know, I don't know how this is going to turn out, maybe not, but I feel like I will end up talking.
• 1:33:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's so interesting because I have felt that way.
• 1:33:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, or I've been given that knowing that I should be using my voice, even though, like, when I even talk about using my voice, like it gets constricted because I'm still working through that.
• 1:33:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because I was really quiet as as a kid, and that was out of necessity, too, you know, like not to draw too much attention to myself.
• 1:33:45
  SPEAKER_01: So did you bring a question for me today?
• 1:33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:33:50
  SPEAKER_00: So you're so interested interested in humans, right?
• 1:33:59
  SPEAKER_00: And you have talked to many humans, and you're and and what I appreciate also is your interested, like like your present for us, humans talking to you.
• 1:34:16
  SPEAKER_00: So after all this interest, what do you see for humanity?
• 1:34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Or what do you see us as humans evolution or yeah?
• 1:34:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think on a macro scale, we had to go through something, and we we went through this incredibly human experience that was very experiential.
• 1:34:51
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was very physical, it was very emotional, it was very difficult, it was like very dense, so that we could feel that particular way.
• 1:35:03
  SPEAKER_01: That was early in our history, and then we moved into an era of understanding ourselves as spirits, and we're just sort of been involved with that in the well, I can speak from my own experience, but also, of course, that's the macro too.
• 1:35:24
  SPEAKER_01: Come to know ourselves as spirits, and then in this next journey, we're gonna be merging those two together somehow, and I I'm not sure it's ever really been done before.
• 1:35:39
  SPEAKER_01: I know I haven't done it before, and so it's this big horizon that is completely unknown to us.
• 1:35:47
  SPEAKER_01: What is that gonna be like when when we when our spiritual power drops into this physical form?
• 1:35:56
  SPEAKER_01: What are we going to experience?
• 1:35:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think we really know that, but I'm I'm excited about it.
• 1:36:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's gonna be it's gonna be both it's gonna be challenging and it's gonna be exciting and um it's gonna be new, and I'm really looking forward to that.
• 1:36:14
  SPEAKER_01: I um it's like it'll be like learning to ride a bike, I feel like, you know, like the exhilaration of that, but the challenge of it too, the frustration of falling and not getting it right, and um all of that.
• 1:36:30
  SPEAKER_01: But then when you once you get the hang of it, then you feel like you're flying.
• 1:36:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I think it's gonna be um a little bit like that.
• 1:36:42
  SPEAKER_01: Your mic is muted.
• 1:36:44
  SPEAKER_01: There we go.
• 1:36:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, thank you so much.
• 1:36:49
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 1:36:50
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 1:36:51
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 1:36:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think we as humans we are defining what humanity is after all these experiences, and after I don't know, billions of experience as human humanity, what what humanity is after that, we are defining it.
• 1:37:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it's to be continued, right?
• 1:37:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because yeah, because uh some of us are having experiences that other humans don't even understand, others don't even want to know about it, so and we are defining what being human is.
• 1:37:54
  SPEAKER_00: I just hopefully we will many, many, many of us will get to the point to open up because the possibilities are infinite.
• 1:38:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, do you feel it's necessary for us to go through this healing process before we can get to that?
• 1:38:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, and and and I don't I know the value of pain.
• 1:38:24
  SPEAKER_00: I've been into that, but no, no, it's not my perspective.
• 1:38:30
  SPEAKER_00: From my perspective, things are going to get faster, not that like six years, ten years, twenty years, twenty-five years, right?
• 1:38:43
  SPEAKER_00: Figuring out because we are starting to talking about so we're anchoring things and making changes and showing changes.
• 1:38:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's all this is all that we can do.
• 1:38:56
  SPEAKER_00: So many people won't have to make that much trials, right?
• 1:39:04
  SPEAKER_00: For the first thing, and the second thing is that pain is just another energy, and pain is it's like when you have a tooth pain, right?
• 1:39:21
  SPEAKER_00: You are so concentrated in the pain, you're you you cannot be in your mind thinking and thinking and thinking, it's so painful.
• 1:39:31
  SPEAKER_00: Pain asks for our undivided concentration, right?
• 1:39:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the value of pain that make us focus on something, right?
• 1:39:47
  SPEAKER_00: And break through something, but we can I believe we can learn through happiness.
• 1:40:00
  SPEAKER_01: I do too.
• 1:40:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think laughter, yeah, laughter as humanity grows in human technology, that the processing of anything that's remaining could just be easy and simple and fast and optional.
• 1:40:20
  SPEAKER_00: And and some people like us or others, it's not heroes, it's just we have made the trial.
• 1:40:29
  SPEAKER_00: And the moment we will start showing people that no matter what stories you have lived, because you can call me the story that I haven't lived, I have lived so many, but now I can laugh, and it's not I'm not laughing.
• 1:40:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, I'm not crazy, I'm just in an understanding, different understanding, and some people will hate me for that, and then they will hate me anymore because one day they will be able to laugh, and so I value more um the laughing experience than the pain experience.
• 1:41:29
  SPEAKER_00: Many believe that we absolutely have to go through pain.
• 1:41:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not that sure to be continued, yes, exactly.
• 1:41:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Calina, thank you so much for being with us today.
• 1:41:47
  SPEAKER_00: I have thank you so much for having me.
• 1:41:49
  SPEAKER_01: I've absolutely learned so much from you, and I'm so grateful for your acquaintance and friendship.
• 1:41:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh so much.
• 1:41:57
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, thank you, thank you.
• 1:41:59
  SPEAKER_00: I I thank you.
• 1:42:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so grateful.
• 1:42:02
  SPEAKER_00: And and and I asked for this, and I'm so grateful that I had this opportunity.
• 1:42:09
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 1:42:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's awesome.
• 1:42:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for coming.