Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Career Accelerator For Financial Planning - Part 4 of 4

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Career Accelerator For Financial Planning - Part 4 of 4 · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Here we are on the final episode of the Career Accelerator Pol blah blah blah.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: The Core Accelerator Programme for Financial Planner Life.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um take us on a journey so far.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Elena, what have we done so far?
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: So we've spoken about your motivators and looking about, you know, before you even look to move, you know, going through that element of self-reflection.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_03: We've then gone through your strategy of how to approach your job search, and we've then gone through the interview process.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_03: And hopefully by this stage, you know, you've been successful and you've got an offer.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: So what are you gonna do now?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Fabulous, great stuff.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: So we're at the offer stage right now, okay?
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: So you've gone in, you've had uh an interview, you've been successful, touch word fingers crossed.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: You might even have multiple offers on the table, and then that opens up lots of emotions.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: It opens up lots of questions and choices that you're gonna need to make.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and also that horrible feeling of, or for some, like literally a celebration, of handing in your notice.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and the things that can happen when that does happen, i.e., all of a sudden the people that really might not have shown an interest in you and your career become your best mates, start putting their arm around you, chucking money at you to get you to stay.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: And there's nothing wrong with accepting a counter offer.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't believe there's anything wrong with it, and sometimes you should accept a counter-offer.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Other times you 100% shouldn't accept a counter offer because why couldn't they have given you that in the first place?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: All right?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: The clincher, all right, and we're gonna talk about that.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna talk about things like handing in your notice, right?
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's a big one.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, moving on to your next job, notice periods, etc.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: etc.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: etc.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, Charlie, talk to us a little bit about the offer process.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, financial advisor, power planner, administrator, somebody of experience has gone into that interview, they've been hugely successful, and they've had an offer.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to us a little bit about your experience of the offer process.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, it's the best part of being a recruiter, really.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: 100% it's what, you know, keeps us going is you've secured someone an opportunity, which is exactly what they're looking for, but sometimes it's not.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it's, you know, they've got a couple of offers on the table.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: Usually it goes, you know, to get to the offer, hiring manager will give us feedback.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: They might even offer you in the interview.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: That happened with me at Recruit UK.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I actually had, interestingly enough, I had further interviews to go to.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I was very con, I was like, oh my gosh, I've just had the best interview ever.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm pretty sure my words to Stu were, okay, I'm just I'm gonna have to say thank you and I'll think about it.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: Probably go scream in the park around the corner.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I actually went and got myself a half pint and chips to celebrate afterwards.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I then, you know, spoke to my recruiter and they were like, you must go to the rest of your interviews.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I'm not really sure about this one, maybe not the next one, but saw them all through anyway, just because I wanted to leave no stone unturned.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then I came to the decision that actually, no, it was the best one.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I think if you get the offer and you have other interviews, it is actually in your power.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't want to go to the rest of the interviews, you really don't have to.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think it depends on the recruiter.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: They do have established like relationships with their clients, you could be doing them a favour, but if you don't want to go to them, you don't have to.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: And then yeah, it gets to the offer, and I guess you know, you might get an offer letter come through, which is like a sort of a verbal acceptance and then a written acceptance, and then you'll be looking to get your contract through.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then when you sign that contract, that is when you've accepted that job offer.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: Exciting.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, and I think one thing to mention as well with financial services is there's a pretty rigorous referencing process.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I had a candidate recently who they accept, it was I think very early career, they accepted a fantastic opportunity.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and they were a bit conflicted about handing their notice in before they had passed the referencing, which sometimes rings red like bells and red flags in your head because you think, oh, what skeletons are in your closet that might come out.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: But he just genuinely didn't want to be without a job and he wanted to ensure the security.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, look, unless you've got something you're worried about, it's very standard practice, it's the FCA, it's so regulated, they just need to do it as standard practice.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: So you can accept the job, hand in your notice, and go through the referencing.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: But do be honest with yourself.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: If you've got something in your past which might come up in the referencing, it is important to disclose that.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm I'm really, you must have been reading my mind, and we were talking about this earlier, how in sync we are at the moment, right?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was thinking exactly the same thing.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because you've got an offer doesn't mean that you're gonna start with that company because they are going to do some rigorous checks.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's the financial services, right?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: What are the type of things that they're gonna check on?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they might well check on your credit history, they might well also check on whether or not you've been struck off the FCA in the past, if you had any complaints against you, especially if, say, you're a financial advisor.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they might check into your past, your careers, they're gonna look at the jobs that you've got and they're gonna ask for references.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, have you been honest on your CV?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Have you put the right contacts on there that are going to speak highly and evidence exactly that what you were saying is actually true?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: So um, the oh god, the amount of people where I've secured offers, however, have failed at the reference process in my 15 years of being in financial services recruitment, you know, it's it's soul destroying and it definitely 100% happens.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you in the back of your mind feel like there's something that's going to affect your ability to actually get the job, you need to get it out on the table straight away.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because if a company makes you an offer and you haven't told them about these skeletons in the closet, these red flags, these things you might well be worried about.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: It could just also be quite simply um a driving ban.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it could be some points on your license.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: These are the things that you need to bring to the surface, put in front of the hiring manager.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you're unsure of it, run it by the recruitment consultant.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: We've experienced this numerous times.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: We can ask the question, we can position the question in a completely different way so you don't have to.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: We can be your go-between, your broker between that company and the offer.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very, very important.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: I 100% really glad that you did that while you said that, because that's an offer management situation.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a definite offer management situation.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: What else then?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: So you talked about this a minute ago, you know, accepting an offer in the interview, right?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: So someone's gonna go, wait, I'm really super keen on you.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna make an offer to you right here.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: You were we were offered in uh recruit UK, that was your experience.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: You were exactly the same.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: I was the same as well, but neither of us accepted in our interviews, which is quite interesting.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: Probably because we had good relationships with our recruiters, and we would ring them after every interview because that was what we did, and we knew that we had to go back out and debrief with our recruiter and be like, ah, they've offered me, and then go from there.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't want to tarnish that rep, you know, you don't want to tarnish your um sort of authentic, your um what's the word?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Your um like genuity.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because if you go, yes, I'll accept it there and then, and all of a sudden you might then go back to your recruiter, or you might have a couple of other job opportunities that you're still gonna go to um final interviews, for example, you're saying you're gonna accept it, and three days later you're not accepting it, it can cause a problem, but you might not be accepting it because of the salary might be too low.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, is another reason why you do not accept the offer when you're in the interview is because you kind of want to get multiple offers if you can from three, you know, two to three different employers.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: If you're lucky enough to have that, okay?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: If you're lucky enough to have that, that's great.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Why do we want to have multiple offers from different employers, do you think?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: A comparison gives you an excellent, and what you know, I think you definitely get that gut feeling when you have an interview, you sort of know which firm intrinsically aligns with your value.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: I remember my gut feeling at recruiting came.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's actually funny, I use it all the time.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: My dad said, do not take the recruitment job in financial services.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: My dad's an IFA, and he was saying, like, no one ever moves in financial services, you're gonna make no money.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_03: And lo and behold, three years later, here I am.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but um it definitely acts as a really good comparison.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: And also we talked about that halo effect earlier on.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: You can get that halo effect within the interview, but really once you get the opportunity to look at the benefits package, what the additional benefits look like, that may be, you know, extra flexible benefits, what the holiday looks like, the other things that are actually really important to you, one may come out more in favour than not the one that you originally thought.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: I also think just take a deep breath.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_03: Because as I said, you get that, you get that excitement and you get that feeling, but that always your gut isn't always necessarily the only factor that you should go with.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: You should just take the time to reflect and review the element of the other elements that are also really important to you.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's like going back to that original list again that we made in episode one, right?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Does this opportunity align with my intrinsic values?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: Does it tick the boxes of the things that I'm looking for from that new employer?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I loved what you said there as well, because when a salary comes up, we can almost be blindsided by money.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: That we choose not to then look at the other things that come with it.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: What are the benefits?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: And benefits are wrapped up in different things.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: It could be um flexible working, it could be the amount of holiday that you can have, uh, it could be the benefits package from an employee well-being perspective, it could be the office environment, it could be the distance between your home and traveling to that office.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you need to collectively look at absolutely everything and compare it to another opportunity and to another opportunity.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when you truly know: is it ticking those non-negotiables, right?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Is it really ticking?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Am I getting eight out of ten?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Am I getting nine out of ten?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Am I getting 10 out of 10?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then sometimes the offer of the salary that might be 30,000 pounds, right?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Up against the one that's 40,000 pounds.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: I've had people take lower salaries because the company is more aligned to their values and it's heading in a direction where they see long-term intrinsic uh value coming to them through the sort of compound effect of the harder they work there, the more money that they can actually earn.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps, especially within like the financial planning side of it, advice side of it, where you see these different structures that are created around bonus and um um earnings related to performance, right?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Someone might be on a 40k basic at one place, but get 50% of all the fees that they generate.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Something I want to bring in at this point as well, right, is that when it comes to that offer stage, again, you can get blindsided by all the glitz and the glamour.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's not unusual for companies to offer some crazy benefits packages now.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're not seeing it as much really in the financial planning sector, our IB catches up.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: But if you look at like tech companies and all of that, they're crazy, right?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Or some of the stuff that you've got.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like four-day weeks.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: But again, what's the expectation?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Let's take a deep dive and a deep look into the contract.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: What does the contract say?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Not only what does a contract of employment look like, you don't accept something until you receive a contract.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Get that contract in place.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: It might uh frustrate the hiring manager, it might frustrate the recruiter.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: But we wanna we wanna make sure 100% that the con, you know, that the contract itself is in place, is correct, and it protects you again.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you're somebody who's a financial advisor, perhaps you're self-employed, perhaps you're employed movement to self-employed, you might want to look at who's got ownership of my clients?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: What happens if it doesn't work out and I want to leave?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Am I causing myself long-term damage by joining this firm?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: So don't accept anything, don't be too rash until you've looked at that contract.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: And you look at the existing contracts that you also have as well.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what is your notice period?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Is there garden leave?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, are your, you know, the clients that you've built up, you know, very often I come across financial advisors who've got verbal agreements that the clients that they brought to the table are theirs and they can take it with take them with them.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh sometimes that just doesn't happen.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I always, you know, even pre-going to look for a job, for example, if you're an advisor, make sure that if there is a verbal agreement, can we get it in, can we get it on paper?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Can we get it written down?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because you need to have something solid that shows that you can do it.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because you will, without a shadow of a doubt, have a restricted covenant on your current contracts that stops you from approaching clients that have been serviced by that firm, probably for six to 12 months.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter if restricted covenants are worth the paper they're written on.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody is going to want tanks on their lawn, right?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're somebody that's got amazing client relationships, you've got built, I don't know, 20 million, 25 million under management with one firm, right?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: The firm that you're joining are going to make sure you're 100% squeaky clean, because the last thing they want is a lawsuit, tanks on the lawn, bad publicity, all of those typical types of thing.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Worth also at that point as well, if you're an advisor, just making sure that the person who's making an offer you isn't seeing bang signs in their eyes either.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: And all they're looking at is what you can bring to the table in respect of your clients.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Again, is this offer based on what I can do in the present moment, the here and now, or is this purely based upon my current relationships and what I can bring to the table?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when that salary can change, right?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: If they're not taking into consideration now, they're not looking at the intrinsic, the true value of what your client base actually is year one, year two, year three, year four, year five, or your network, your professional network, your introducer network, they're not looking at that, and they're not taking that into account, then we need to negotiate.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now, negotiation that excites a recruiter or sends tingles down there.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly that, which is why sometimes having those multiple offers is really, really beneficial.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: And we've been in situations where we can negotiate on behalf of the candidate.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: We take that emotion out of it, we come in and we broker that, you know, that deal.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: We're trying to get the client needs to get a good deal, the candidate needs to get a good deal, we've got the knowledge, we've got the experience to say, look, this is fair, guys.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Let's meet in the middle at this stage.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: And what it does is it takes out the emotion from the client and the candidate, which could sour that beautiful relationship and working relationship moving forward.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Everything needs to come in writing.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you need to see it in writing.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Don't make a decision.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: You need receipts.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Don't make a decision until you've seen it in writing.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Any horror stories around offers?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Are you an experienced financial planner, power planner, administrator, perhaps or a compliance manager, or even working in marketing?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever you're doing within the financial planning profession, if you're looking for a career change, check out Recruit UK, where we have all the leading financial planner job opportunities at your fingertips.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: Need to speak to somebody in a bit more detail about your career aspirations and what you're looking for, reach out to one of our consultants who'll happily help you today.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that's recruituklimited.co.uk.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think probably referencing can take a long time.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then by the time that they got round to referencing, it was discovered there was incorrect statements on their CV to do with academic academic qualifications.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: And they pulled the offers to somebody who was waiting almost two months to join a role, but because of a uh discrepancy on the CV.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's that's the thing is you know, what you put forward on your CV in financial services, they will check everything.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: They'll check you left when you said you left, when you started, they'll look at the gaps, they'll check your qualifications, and it's just, you know, save yourself the trouble and don't lie.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: How about you, Euline?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: Mine's mainly counter-offers.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: Which I know is definitely, but I know from a recruitment perspective, we get frustrated about counter-offers because ultimately there is some level of conversation that hasn't gone on in the initial steps.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: Because if we go back to episode one, if you've really had that element of self-reflection, spoken to your manager, I don't really think there is many situations where you would take a counter-offer if you've really done your due diligence from the beginning.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: But this is where like leaning into your recruiter really comes in.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_03: I think I'm definitely talking about counter-offers here from a recruitment perspective, but there's nothing more frustrating than when you get an email from the hiring manager being like, Have you seen the below?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: And it's your candidate that's emailed the hiring manager saying, you know, they offered me a salary increase that matches the salary you've offered me, so I've decided to stay.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the thing that's the most frustrating about that is that you as a recruiter have then been eliminated from the process because we've spoken so many times here about how you can really lean into your recruitment consultant.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_03: And if a candidate calls me and they go, you know, my main driver was salaried, they have given me a counter-offer.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_03: More than likely, I can call the client and say, you know, they've been given a counter-offer.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: Can we do something about this?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: And we can open that conversation.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: And this is just another example about how you can really lean into your recruiter to support you, and you shouldn't eliminate from the process.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: That's a definitely a bit of a selfish one, but it is really frustrating when you've done all of that hard work and then you know that you could, you know, support your candidate further, but they've even not allowed you to have that opportunity.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: My my fee, my fit, my thoughts on it, right?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Always be expecting a counter offer.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, always.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, particularly today and yeah.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: In today's day and age, there is there will be one coming.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Always be expecting a counter offer, which is why it needs to be preempted in that original conversation.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Is it gonna go up?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Is my salary gonna go up?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: Not only is my salary gonna go up, but have they given you any guarantee of that?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you go through all that process and then they increase your salary, it can leave a sour feeling when you accept a counter-offer.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: One, your current employer is thinking, I wonder if they're gonna go again.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, uh, you're thinking, well, they just put their arm around me now.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: They're giving me an you know a higher salary, but do they really, do they really care?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Do they just doing that just because I kicked up a fuss?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, it can leave that kind of sourness.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I'm also under the illusion, you it's okay to not a very, not a very popular opinion in the recruitment world, right?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's okay sometimes to accept.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there is instances.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: There are instances, right?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I think it's okay to accept it because things change, man, you know, life changes.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: And one minute you are not, you're in your shit, right?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: You ate this place and they just haven't done it all.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: But within the last three weeks, I've been looking around and they have noticed I'm a bit miffed.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: They brought me into a room and they've actually shown me evidence of things that they're going to do, you know, what they're going to do, how they're going to do it.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: And at that point, I actually might believe them, or I might really be brought into it, and they have actually asked my valid opinion, and I really, really enjoyed it.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: It may have been the salary, it may be a few things that have been bugging me, but they've solved that problem for me at that stage.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: You can do that once.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: You can accept the counter offer once, right?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: You might regret accepting that counter offer, or you may be really happy that you took you stayed, right?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: But it's not a bad thing, it's not the worst thing in the world to accept a counter offer.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: They're there, but it's how to manage them.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: And the idea here is look, you need again somebody you can banks off of.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: I agree it should be your recruitment consultant.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Now, a recruitment consultant will want you to leave that company and join someone else because a recruitment firm makes their money that way on behalf of the client that they're trying to build.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: But my advice also is to say, look, have some people around you.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's not your wife or your partner, all right?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's somebody else that can give you a bit of a again unbiased opinion, and to hopefully sit down with your pros and cons list and say, Is it being looked at?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Should you accept that Keynes orfer by staying?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: Are you actually potentially causing yourself more problems?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Or can you live with that?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: And you happy with it.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: The issue that you have when you accept that counter offer, right?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the companies that you've gone out and interviewed with is that when it comes around to you potentially leaving again because your current employer hasn't lived up to what they said they wanted to do, they're like, Oh, look who's come.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Here they are.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Here she is.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: What's a cat tracking?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: We told her.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the similar situation in that, you know, I'm a business owner, I've been, you know, I've had people come to me where a counter offer's been accepted, and they haven't come back, and they have come back to me, and I've sat down and I talked to them without judgment, because that's the key thing here.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: There is no judgment.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: You shouldn't judge somebody for accepting a counter offer, but it can cause you problems further down the line.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you've done your due diligence, if you've done your deep dive, if you've done your inventory, if you've done it properly in episode one, in reality, you shouldn't even be bothered by a counter offer because you've gone through the process in the right way to uncover and discover an opportunity that is far beyond what it is that your current employer can actually do is tick in boxes.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: Or you have gone through the process, and guess what?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Every offer you've received is nowhere near as good as where you currently are.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_03: I think one thing that I'm now I'm speaking a bit negatively about counteroffers, and you are right, there is definitely instances.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Where things can change throughout the interview process, just life changes, personal circumstances change that mean it's not the right time to take a job, which is, you know, 100% happens.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: It happens.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: But I think one thing that blew my mind about counter-offers was when I flipped the perspective is we always very often speak about counter-offers as like if that was your worth, if you're worth that money, if they wanted to give you that development, they would have done it before this point.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: But one thing that I find really interesting about counter-offers is if you view it from a client perspective, we're all sat here speaking about how, as an individual with experience, you're really exclusive, you know, it's difficult to find candidates of this caliber.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: So also view it as like, do they not want me to leave, or do they not want to have to go through the hiring process again?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: Do they not want to have someone not in a business critical role, you know, go through the interview process again?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: Potentially they're gonna have to hire someone at a higher salary because the markets um increase.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: So always view it from that perspective, you know, do they not want to see you go, or do they not have the time, the energy, the money to bring someone in again?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of like a bit of an afterthought, right?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh shit, trying to trying to shut the gate while the horse is bolted.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but once I listened, I read that on LinkedIn or something like that.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: And as soon as I've read that, I was like, shit, because you always view it as they're like, oh, they don't want you to leave, but you know, we do recruitment, we know how long it can take before a client comes to you and finds the right person.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: Do they just avoiding that instead of actually valuing you as an individual?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Lena, I I 100% agree with you there.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: And actually now I'm edging onto the side of never accept a cancer offer.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: Never again accept a cancer offer.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it just goes back to again, doesn't it, really, making sure we're digging deep at the very, very beginning.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: You're bouncing off of your recruitment consultant.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Is what I'm thinking right?
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, have I got things up, you know, have I got my intrinsic values written down?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Are they being met where I currently am?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Have I done everything I can do to raise this with my current employer?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: If not, then confidently I can go off and hopefully find something else.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: And there will be something else out there.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: There will be.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: There always is, right?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: We can't guarantee with our crystal ball it's going to be perfect, right?
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: But no one can.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: But the one thing that definitely is a guarantee there are opportunities out there for you in other companies within the financial planning profession.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the beauty of financial planning.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: There are so many different roles now, so many different routes that you can go down, and there are lots of companies that are investing heavily, smaller firms, growing firms, younger firms coming to the marketplace, being able to offer these fantastic career opportunities, benefits, and packages.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, from an offers perspective, then we've took that counter offers, we've looked at the delivery of an offer, yeah, when to accept it, when not.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Banksing offer the recruitment consultant to take a good hard look at what it looks like, what the contract looks like, everything like that, to make sure you're picking the right one.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: So now you're looking to accept that offer.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: Woohoo!
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to me about accepting offers.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: What's the best way to do that?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: Just a big fat.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just a bit.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think there's a science behind the show, the excitement.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: I think as a recruitment consultant, we always have like an element of control in the process.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: So it's very often we're the in we're the individual that goes to the firm.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_03: But contact your hiring manager, tell them how excited you are, have a glass of wine.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like you've got put through so much work to get to this point that you know, celebrate your successes at the end of the day.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: Celebrate, enjoy the the wins when they come, you know.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: You've just got a job offer, you've just accepted it, you've gone, you've you've listened to all of our videos and gone through the whole process.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: So pat yourself on the back, enjoy it.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I think also it's about looking forward.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what can you bring to the table?
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what are you imagining your first month, your third month, your sixth months, a year?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: Start getting excited.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then when you come in on that first day and you've got your onboarding, you've got your training, you have already visioned that and you just put yourself on that path to success.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: What about timescales though?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: So you've accepted an offer.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: So from accepting that offer, right?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: So when should you then hand your notice in?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think is a fair time scale?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: What should you be thinking about as a candidate before some people might be rushing to the manager's desk to say, there's more notice?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh god, you bastards, down the table.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that's a good idea.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think even if you've accepted the offer, keep stum.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: Don't go telling everybody in your office you've got an offer of employment.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: Certainly don't tell everybody in your office you're out there interviewing because um the walls have ears.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, so just keep it stum, keep it, and that's another thing.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: When you've got somebody like a recruitment consultant you can talk to, then you're able to offload that energy in a way that's positive, right?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: In the way that you can kind of get your thinking checked again and keep things nice and calm.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because you don't know who's listening, you don't know what someone might well say, and you might shoot yourself in the foot.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: I have seen offers rescinded because the market's changed.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it does happen.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: So accept it, but when it comes to handing in your notice, my advice always is wait until you get your contract.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, always.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: Go over your contract, wait until you've got your offer.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: When are you looking to start?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Let was let's see in black and white what the pension agreement is.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see in black and white absolutely everything else.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: Let's let that dust settle for a little bit longer.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: And once you've got that, once you've seen it, once you've confirmed it, once you feel good about it, then it's about constructing that letter to give to your employer to say, I'm no longer going to be working here.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: Here is my notice period.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: And confidently you can hand it across, knowing that there's no, again, skeletons in the closet or any concerns around start dates or the company you're looking to join even approaching your firm to ask for references.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because you've also taken a bit of time during that period to line up the references, get the telephone numbers, get the email.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: A good recruiting recruitment consultant should be doing that for you anyway, right?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Getting all of that stuff nice and lined up to make that process slick and easy.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: A bit like buying a house, right?
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the exchange bit, you know.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: Line your ducks up.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, get your and then you can sit back and then you can enjoy yourself.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Then you can relax.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, celebrate.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing worse.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_03: Celebrate all your wins.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: Mate, there's nothing worse, right?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: And accepting something and then being very anxious that after you've accepted it, that things can go slightly wrong.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: Now, that letter, that resignation letter, I've always helped individuals write the resignation letter.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's all about being respectful.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: Don't burn your bridges.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: No, don't burn your bridges at all.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: As much as you dislike somebody or if you hate somebody or whatever, the aim here is to part ways with um a letter of resignation that if you can find something you're thankful and grateful for, and to give a reason as to why you are handing your notice in.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: If, say, for example, they instantly put you on garden leave, don't even want to talk to you, then so be it, right?
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Probably made the right decision to be able to do that.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: Probably made the right decision.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: But at least you haven't sort of, I don't know, outwardly spoken negatively, or you know, resentment is like the you know, a poison, drinking a poison, expecting the other person to die.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just like, what's the point in doing that when you could leave in such a positive way?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: But also you want that ability to say goodbye to the people that you enjoyed within that company, and also kind of to be respectful of that business in the sense look, look, I'm not here to disrupt your business.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that you're a business, especially small firms.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: I know how hard it is, right?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: But it's not right for me, and these are my reasons, and I have broached it with you.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, we can have an exit interview, and I'll tell you all about it, you know, offer that feedback to them and be respectful in that way, and be respectful of the fact they run their own business, and your exit could cause problems.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: Don't be that person, you know, don't be that person.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, hand your notice in in the right way.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be war and peace, but once it's done and you write it and you put it down and you seal that envelope and you put it on the desk or you send that email, it's done.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, off your shoulders.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_03: I think the feedback thing is really important there because ultimately, from a business owner's perspective, you know, you want to receive that feedback.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: And if you've worked there for a long period of time, you do have something to be grateful for.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they've employed you, you've had that stability and that security.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_03: So use it as your opportunity to provide some feedback in a respectful manner.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: If you've left because you've not had career progression, outline it to them because that could be the thing that changes you know, the whole structure.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: They're then put in a career development plan, which enables them to retain staff in the future.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_03: So use it as your opportunity to be honest about the reasons that you left for a business owner's perspective to allow them to build on that moving forward.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Always remember what is it, the term like on the way up, remember that they'll they'll remember you on the way, you know, remember they might see you on the way down.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, so where something might not work out quite well or might life might not go according to plan, you never know when you might need their help or uh to turn to those individuals.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: And plus also you want a good reference, don't you?
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, you want a good reference, yeah.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: You want a good reference, you know.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: I have had people leave my business and they've asked for a reference, and like you're thinking, oh, do you know I put so much energy and effort into that person?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: It cost me so much money.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: I I didn't get what I had I can think of a person right now.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't and I didn't get a return on my investment.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm gonna give him a fair reference because he was fair with me in the letter that he gave me and his reasons for moving on, you know.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: I can't keep people in my business, they're not my uh product, they're not my possession.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: They're not a commodity, no, they're not my possession, you know, and people have different reasons for different things.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I you learn to accept that as a business owner, and we're all adult at the end of the day.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Look, if things get sticky and a bit emotional, these things can kind of happen.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's why it's beautiful to put it in a letter or an email, exactly what it is you feel.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: And if they then offer you into uh uh an exit meeting, you have the choice.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: But if you articulate it in a way that's uh to the point and um specific, then perhaps you don't even need to go to an exit interview if you don't feel comfortable doing that, you know.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, that's where I am around that.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you've got to hand your notice in, it's got to be done, and there's a good clear way to do it.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: And um yeah, and there we are.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: At this point, congratulations! Yeah, congrats.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_03: You've listened to us for four episodes, you've got a job to do.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: So there we go.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we've gone through the whole process, we've shared some of our experience of working with candidates, and the next series that we're gonna do um on this career accelerator program is gonna be helping clients.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: What clients can actually do, when we say clients, we're talking about financial planning firms, hiring managers.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: What can you do to attract the best talent to your business?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: What are people doing out there that we are seeing as being fantastic?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: What can we learn from other professions, other industries?
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: What are they doing to attract the right talent?
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: How best are you working recruitment consultants?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Are you seeing them as a necessary evil, or are you seeing them as a partnership?
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: What is true value?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: What is a fair fee to pay a recruitment consultant for the work that they're doing?
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: What does contingency and retained mean?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: What does a subscription model mean?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Why are we using recruiters and what is the value they truly add?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: And we're really looking forward to bringing that to you.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: But to everybody else, thank you so much for listening.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: And remember, Financial Planner Life is powered by Recruit UK.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: 15 years of experience recruiting into the financial planning profession profession.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: Go and look at our reviews.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: If you are within the profession looking for a new job opportunity, reach out to the best in the profession and continue to support the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.