Latest / All The Right Movies / The Terminator (1984) | Ep. 49 - Part 1

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The Terminator (1984) | Ep. 49 - Part 1 · All The Right Movies

0:04
All their old movies. They come from another town, a
0:09
machine wrapped in flesh, A soldier from a distant war, both
0:14
after a woman who holds the key to the future.
0:18
One wants to kill her, the other must protect her.
0:22
I'm here to help you. You've been targeted for
0:24
termination. The Terminator Your future is in
0:27
his hands. The Terminator, rated R, the
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number one movie in the USA, is now playing everywhere.
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The Terminator, opened in 1984, is a low budget Bay movie but
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made an A list impact. The story of a time travelling
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robotic Assassin's hunt to kill the mother of mankind's future
0:46
savior, the film catapulted the careers of writer, director
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James Cameron and its * Arnold Schwarzenegger into the
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stratosphere. My name is John and the
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cybernetic organisms with me are Westie.
0:58
Don't make me bust you up, man. And mass wash.
1:01
Day tomorrow, nothing clean, right?
1:04
It's 1984 and ATRM have came across time to talk
1:08
Schwarzenegger, Cameron and the movie that made them.
1:11
Come with us if you want to listen.
1:32
Hello and welcome to All the Right Movies.
1:35
We can't be bargained with, We can't be reasoned with, and that
1:38
especially through one hour podcast about classic and hit
1:40
films. Doesn't need.
1:43
This episode is a huge one. It is, yeah.
1:46
Oh yeah. Arnold, I and Jim, surely you
1:50
need no more than that to be pumped.
1:52
Nah, that's it. We're in.
1:54
And we're telling you the story behind their science fiction
1:57
action and classic The Terminator.
1:59
Sounds great, yeah. Before we get the Uzi 90mm out
2:03
though, should we talk about the ATRM patron?
2:05
Absolutely. Yeah, well, if you're a regular
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listener to our ATRM Classic podcast, you can help support
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what we do by becoming an ATRM Patron.
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Patrons get access to our bonus podcast episode called Double
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Feature and the Watch list, 2 bonus episodes per month, that
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episodes and archived ATRM Classic episodes.
2:27
Lovely. There's so much content in there
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now, it's becoming a bit silly to be honest.
2:32
Yeah, it really is. It's becoming self aware, that's
2:34
how much is in there. Literally hundreds of hours
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worth of stuff. If you like Arnold, we've talked
2:41
about him many times. If you like James Cameron, maybe
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even more, maybe loads of without.
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Great movie stars, film makers and classic movies have been
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discussed too. So to find out more and sign up,
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you can visit patreon.com/all the Right Movies or you can
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subscribe directly on Apple Podcasts or on Spotify now as
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well. Amazing.
3:01
We absolutely will not stop ever going about ATRM patron until we
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are dead. Definitely not.
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So you might as well just sign up.
3:08
Yeah. Misery.
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Yeah, it's never. Just have a look guys, Get over
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there. You won't leave.
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Also worth mentioning social media and saying that whilst we
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So if you use either of those platforms, follow us if you want
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to live. More than welcome.
3:27
Oh, brilliant. This is all you're flowing out
3:29
here. Here falling.
3:30
Out here, back to here in our present tonight, it's a
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Terminator. It is.
3:36
It was your choice, I believe, Rusty.
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It was. So why are we talking about it?
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I mean, this for me is one of the first films I remember
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seeing when I shouldn't really have seen it.
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It's part of the action pack that I was watching when I was
3:49
in like primary school. Like this is like early 90s.
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There was this Predator, Red Heat, Commando, all of these
3:55
films. Just Arnold films, yeah.
3:57
Just films actually. Few fan down in there so I was
4:00
firmly in the Arnold camp and I just remember watching them and
4:03
it's just such a great action film.
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I remember in primary school me and my friend, but just we used
4:07
to draw the tracks of the thing going over the skulls.
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I was banging the comic books. I was in the 2008 days, I was in
4:12
a Judge Dredd, I was in a Warhammer, and this just feel
4:14
like a live version of everything I've seen on the
4:16
page. Obviously it made Arnold a star
4:18
and he's only in what, 70% of the film?
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It's huge franchise starter, a massive stamp for Cameron.
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Does it still stand up? Maybe not in some areas, but
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obviously get straight into that.
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But overall, a very impressive film, a very exciting film, a
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very big film and one I'm very excited to talk about.
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Me too, I still remember my first time seeing the
4:37
Terminator. I must have been about the same.
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About 11 or 12 I think. Around there, yeah.
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure I saw Terminator Two first, so we're
4:45
expecting more of the same here, only to find it was absolutely
4:48
terrifying in comparison. Yeah.
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Yeah. But time travel, cool robots,
4:52
post apocalyptic futures were right on my street and still are
4:55
obviously. Oh, definitely.
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So I loved it then, and I'm looking forward to talking about
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what we all think of it now. And there's still so much to get
5:02
into. The Terminator still stands up
5:04
among the biggest IPS in Hollywood today.
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Maybe the most important film in the career of one of Hollywood's
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biggest stars and Arnold Schwarzenegger.
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Maybe the most important film in the career of one of his biggest
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film makers and James Cameron. Yep.
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And the story of how it came to be is a great one.
5:17
It is twists, turns, laughs, iron gym antics.
5:20
Obviously, obviously from the start.
5:24
So this should be a whole lot of fun.
5:26
Definitely. And Matt, the Terminator for
5:29
you. Yes, I think the common theme
5:31
here is first viewings because my first viewing of this was
5:34
really memorable because I was a genius school and we had a
5:37
residential week away and we went to Lindisfarne, which if
5:41
you're in the UK, better known as Holy Island.
5:44
So if anyone doesn't know what does?
5:45
The name implies it's run by nuns and monks and I was about 9
5:49
or 10 and one night was a movie night and they put on the
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Terminator. Amazing.
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The nuns what not sister act? Nuns on the Run.
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I mean, what were the thing? And only in like, the late 80s
6:03
would you get away with this? It was absolutely, my Lord.
6:06
Just 50 or 60 kids just sat there, jaws hanging open.
6:10
What is this? This is amazing.
6:14
You know, you talk about things that would never happen today.
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That's one of them. So yeah, even if I'd never seen
6:18
it since then, I'd remember it for that.
6:20
First, be on the loan. Yeah, it could be Name of the
6:22
Rose. You would have really been shook
6:23
up by that. So The Terminator was produced
6:28
by Hemdale Film Corporation and Pacific Western Productions,
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distributed by Orion Pictures and released on October the
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26th, 1984. Filmed at various locations
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around California, mainly Los Angeles.
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It was directed by James Cameron, written by Cameron and
6:42
Gaylan Heard, and it stars Arnold Schwarzenegger as The
6:45
Terminator, Linda Hamilton as Sarah Connor, and Michael Bean
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as Kyle Reese. Yeah, let's go then, do you
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think? Let's do it.
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Let's do it. It's Thursday 12th of May Nice
6:56
night for a walk as we talk the beginning of the Terminator.
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The Terminus are open. Does it means to go on with
7:42
spells, thrills and kills? The moment that Arnold starts
7:45
bumping off every Sarah Connor he can get his hands on her
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coming. But first, it's our main
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character introductions. Yeah, it is.
7:53
So we start in 2029 AD, the machines have risen from the
7:56
ashes of the nuclear fire, apparently, and it ain't pretty,
7:59
before being thrown back to LA in 1984 to meet our holy
8:02
triumvirate of Reese, Sarah and Arnold.
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So how was the opening for you, Westie?
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I mean, it's just seeing Arnold for the first time, isn't it?
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Oh, what a shot that is. He just looks fucking Immaculate
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in this unbelievable if computers going to say what is
8:19
the perfect human look like just looks like that.
8:22
Yeah. They've just recreated what God
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should have done in the 1st place.
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I wish I was born like. The Sistine Chapel should be God
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pointing it Arnold. It should be the finger to his
8:32
bicep on the creation. That would be great.
8:36
There's just that wonderful transition from the machines of
8:39
the future to the machines of the present.
8:41
As seen for me is quite jarring. When it comes to the editing.
8:44
It's a bit scrappy and I think Cameron is trying to make it
8:47
more visceral than it really is. But I think it's just, there's
8:49
too many close-ups and it's just quite confusing.
8:52
But apart from that, I mean, it's a great introduction to the
8:54
character. It's great how he's reading
8:55
them. You get it in Terminator 2, I
8:56
think he kind of rectifies all the mistakes where he scans the
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bar and he sees who's going to be his size.
9:01
You can kind of see him doing that here.
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And it does work. But Paxton's outfit, it's far
9:06
superior. That jacket is fantastic.
9:09
Got the wrong one. He's got no style whatsoever.
9:11
The Terminator has he? He wasn't programmed with style,
9:14
and that's the only problem I have with it.
9:15
I think he just picked the wrong outfit.
9:16
But apart from that, great scene, great scene, great
9:18
introduction. It really sets the tone of the
9:20
film. It's fantastic.
9:22
Yeah, Arnold just wandering around Griffith Park where it
9:24
was filmed with everything hanging out.
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Yeah, Outrageous, man. Why not?
9:31
Yeah, and the editor, Mark Goldblatt, he said that film in
9:34
the scene where Arnold kills the punks, it had to be done twice
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because after the first time Cameron thought the acting was
9:40
so bad, he insisted on reshoot. And he recast the three punks
9:44
with actors he already knew. As we say, Bill Paxton, but also
9:48
Brian Thompson and David Christian.
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But David Christian's role is credited to Brad Reed, and maybe
9:54
because of it being recast. Yeah, on IMDb you say it's Brad
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Reed and but David Christian is the your clothes give them to me
10:00
guy, right? Yeah, yeah, Cameron knew Paxton
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because he absolutely loved weird science.
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Now can. That's a given, naturally.
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Obviously that Miles layer there's Will Be My Camera been
10:12
Production Designer and Galaxy of Terror.
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Paxton had been a set decorator, and Paxton now had the
10:17
distinction of being the only actor to be killed by a
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Terminator, an alien and a Predator.
10:22
Really. In that, isn't it?
10:23
Yeah, I think that some people say Lance Henrikson's another,
10:26
but as Bishop, he wasn't killed by an alien.
10:28
He was finished off by Ripley. Wasn't he an alien three?
10:30
Like a mercy killing kind of thing?
10:32
Yeah, yeah, disconnecting him or whatever it was.
10:34
But I want to go back to the very opening of the film, any
10:37
film that starts in the future. I mean, of course you are 2029
10:40
AD, in this case, post apocalyptic wasteland.
10:43
Yeah. I love the title cards explain
10:44
what happened, like Rise of the Machines.
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I love the opening credits as well.
10:48
That like animation across the screen and that flashing cursor
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like classic Vessel and computer font.
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It still looks good. That it does, and the names just
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flash and disappear the green. Yeah, it's really good.
10:57
Yeah. But once we're in the 2029
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opening with a big ambitious like action scene, that's
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Cameron laying down a marker for his whole career, basically.
11:04
Yeah. I think it's clearly low budget,
11:06
but if anything, that makes Cameron's talent as a filmmaker
11:09
stand out all the more it. Does, yeah.
11:10
Yes, I like that blue tint and lighting that everything seems
11:13
to have. Then we get that great blended
11:16
scale models and reaction when the hunter killer robot machines
11:19
are chasing the humans. I think there's some influences
11:21
in there from in the lighting and ship designs.
11:24
I think some influence in there from Mad Max possibly.
11:27
Definitely The wasteland have burned out cars.
11:29
We'll get to that later. It doesn't lower budget, but it
11:32
looks really really good low budget.
11:34
It does, yeah. Now it looks like test footage
11:36
for LV 426. It does.
11:38
Yeah, it does. Yeah.
11:39
Yeah, it does. Yeah.
11:40
And. That's what Cameron brings for
11:41
me, that quality and not something that carries on for
11:43
the whole film basically. No, Absolutely, yeah.
11:45
The miniatures were done by Fantasy 2 and Effect Studio,
11:48
owned by Gene Warren Junior, Cameron said.
11:50
He hired them as motion control was really popular at the time,
11:52
but he didn't want that. He wanted something more gritty,
11:54
which Fantasy two were known for.
11:56
Yeah. And we have projections used to
11:57
create the background effects most effective in there that
12:00
show you're talking about Wesley with the skulls and the
12:02
foreground that look life-size. Yeah, they're actually really
12:04
small. All right.
12:05
So some effects mastery from the off Lovely.
12:08
And then after this, you get Reece arriving and it's just a
12:11
really effective contrast because the Terminator, as we've
12:14
been saying, he arrives in in that pause just completely like
12:18
at home already. But Reece basically just skids
12:21
across the ground. The Terminator looks so composed
12:23
already in charge of this situation.
12:25
Reece just looks fucked from the start quite frankly.
12:28
Yeah, he does. He really does mean he's clearly
12:30
in pain and there was no reaction from the Terminator to
12:33
this journey. And then the Terminator with
12:35
it's, she has wiped out those punks.
12:37
But then with Reece, you immediately see the difference.
12:40
He has to rob a home sky, which doesn't go to plan because the
12:43
cops bottom. And then that leads to that
12:45
incredible chase sequence, which I think gets really overlooked
12:48
because it's actually quite throwaway.
12:49
You don't need it for the narrative.
12:51
It has no importance whatsoever. But it's shot brilliantly.
12:54
I love all the handheld camera work stuff, and if it doesn't
12:57
have narrative importance, I think it has character
12:59
importance. Because by the time Reese drops
13:01
down behind the cop car and he's got the jacket and he gets the
13:04
rifle, you see that this guy is smart and he can think on his
13:08
feet. So he may not look as important
13:10
as the Terminator, but he's got smarts, and you know that
13:12
already. Yeah, well, like the 2029 scene
13:15
that I mentioned before, you can see that it's not exactly got a
13:17
massive budget. But again, I think Cameron's
13:20
talent is there. The handheld tracking shots.
13:22
You're kind of talking about Matt that follow Reese as he's
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running around the alleys into the department store.
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They're so energetic. They work great.
13:28
And there's a nice Texas switch as well.
13:30
When Reese leaves the store in the alleyway, A stuntman dropped
13:33
from the ladder and disappears behind the police car.
13:35
And then Michael Bean pops up. Trench coat, Shotgun title
13:38
string. Yeah, he is fantastic.
13:40
Yeah. And Michael Bean, he would
13:42
occasionally do his own stunts, but he did say he was glad that
13:45
the moment Reece arrives in 1984 was done by Stoneman because he
13:49
said the Stoneman had to lie naked on a ledge 7 foot up.
13:52
And and then when Cameron called action, he just let himself drop
13:56
under the concrete floor. And Bean said there was a
13:59
crunch. It's one of the most difficult
14:02
stunts I've ever seen in my life.
14:04
He's. Probably still there.
14:06
That's stuntman Cameron not bothered.
14:09
Moving on. When he strives, he steals some
14:13
clothes from a homeless man he finds.
14:14
That guy was played by an actor called Stan Yale and an IMDb.
14:18
He has 23 credits where he's appeared in films or TV shows as
14:21
a homeless man, transient or a wino.
14:23
Amazing. That'll be me, I forgotten that.
14:28
Son of a bitch took my pants. Yeah, get a good job.
14:34
Job, Al. Steel state-of-the-art like
14:39
sneakers and then combines them with some homeless guys
14:41
trousers. Yeah, awful.
14:42
And the homeless guys called Benjamin Schwartz, apparently.
14:45
Not sure you need to be given a full name, but he was given one.
14:47
That's Cameron for you. And then last but not least, our
14:51
introduction to Sarah. I mean, what is that bike she's
14:54
riding? I've never seen one of those
14:56
anywhere part in this film. That scooter thing, yeah, the.
14:58
Scooter thing looks really odd, but tell you what though,
15:01
Magnificent 80s hair blown in the wind.
15:04
Oh, it's unbelievable. But what is she did all those?
15:06
Also customers. The kid rocking the ice cream in
15:08
a pocket had to slap that little prick.
15:10
Yeah, it's a terrible shift. But I rest when she works out.
15:13
That's called Big Jeff's and that's the playing Big Boys,
15:15
which was a famous chain in America.
15:18
Right. Yeah, well, it's a good intro to
15:20
Sarah. She's likeable.
15:21
She's got a pet iguana, Pugsley, for some reason.
15:23
She's wearing a Jetsons T-shirt, which is pretty cool.
15:26
Yeah, that's nice. Yeah.
15:27
Much better than that pink tied I think you should wear for most
15:29
of the film. For a date.
15:33
Exactly, and that is the opening to the film.
15:37
We've met our three main characters and discussed their
15:39
attire. Obviously.
15:40
Obviously. Time to find out why the Men of
15:42
Mystery are here. Yeah, let's do it.
15:47
From there, the film starts living up with the promise of
15:49
its title, and after scouring the phone book, Arnold starts
15:52
delivering the terminating goods.
15:54
First. Sarah O'Connor start the turn up
15:56
dead before our Sarah's unfortunate friends Ginger and
15:59
her boyfriend Matt come across with the big man.
16:01
Yeah, Westie, Sarah O'Connor, I was just all going for.
16:06
You yes, just a great moment here.
16:10
The dog bargain. That's excellent because you get
16:13
that again later on. I think that's a really nice
16:15
touch and just the way this is shot is fantastic just that back
16:19
and forth. There's never A2 shot with them
16:21
both in it. He doesn't overplay this at all.
16:23
It's just a horror movie pushing that chain open.
16:27
It's you're almost in there and you're like, Jesus Christ, this
16:29
guy's so imposing. And that point, that red laser,
16:33
obviously there's just lasers in the future, and that's what
16:35
Terminators are using, lasers. But that just on her forehead is
16:38
enough. You don't need to see anything
16:40
else. You don't need to see the blood
16:42
flying out. You don't need that shot.
16:43
And then he just shoots it like, another six times.
16:46
Something on the floor he can show us just absolutely means
16:50
business. Yeah, he won't stop.
16:52
And it's terrifying. It's just the way he just bursts
16:54
in and then just leaves. None.
16:56
He's done his job. And on to the next one just to
16:57
make sure he does it again. Terrifying stuff.
17:00
It really is not the most foolproof platinum machines have
17:03
got, is it? Not really.
17:05
Just start blasting your way through the phone.
17:08
Good job Sarah was next directory.
17:12
You say I've got that later. That's my Terminator 3.
17:17
Yeah, not going West. He's talking about, as he says,
17:19
that has a laser sight on it. And that was a new ID at the
17:22
time the film. So it was made as a prop and
17:24
Arnold had a power supply strapped to his back which
17:26
powered it. Oh nice.
17:28
Yeah, apparently the company who made it did it for free and
17:31
Cameron paid them with AT shirt and a baseball cap.
17:34
They do get mentioned in the credit, so surefire they were
17:36
called. I think Cameron was pulling in
17:38
every little favour that he had. Course he was.
17:40
Yeah. Yeah, I thought that actually
17:42
existed. I mean, shows you I know about
17:43
guns. When Reese is prepping that
17:45
shotgun and he cuts the handle off to it fits in his court.
17:48
I thought that's what a sort of shotgun was.
17:54
When the first draft of the script, Cameron had written
17:56
Sarah to have this old injury that needed pins in our legs,
17:58
like a second dancing injury or something.
18:01
So an Arnold killed the first Sarah.
18:02
He could open our leg to see if she's got the right Sarah, see
18:05
if the injury was there and the pins were there.
18:06
So it was taking out the script, though I think that would have
18:09
been excellent to leave in because it kind of mirrors the
18:11
Terminator, doesn't it, This metallic?
18:12
Yeah. Yeah, it does.
18:13
Thing inside about the repairer. I think I would have been really
18:16
good. It also ties in with the end of
18:18
the film in the factory when Sarah gets stabbed in the leg
18:20
and corn walk. That could have been the injury.
18:22
Yeah, yeah, she could have been. Yeah, it all would have worked.
18:25
Yeah, it's funny as well. The phone booth when Arnold
18:27
throws the guy who looks like giant haystacks away from the
18:29
phone and he's like, what the But just before the killings, we
18:34
also get the scene in the gun store with Dick Miller as the
18:36
store owner. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:38
Dick Miller. Great that always in there in
18:40
small roles in the mid 80s. Miller.
18:42
He's great though, isn't He's always fantastic.
18:44
In gremlins in 84 as well. That's the same character, let's
18:47
be honest. Gremlins too, guy.
18:51
And watching this again, Arnold looks like a behemoth alongside
18:54
Miller because he was only 5 foot 4.
18:56
Oh, was he right? But I love it Arnold gets to
18:59
show off his acting chops. 49mm. I could happily just have a
19:03
scene watching on list every gun in the shop.
19:07
Like when Scott says he talks about films, Just the film
19:10
titles. Yeah, exactly.
19:12
Arnold spent weeks before filming working with firearms
19:15
and training to strip them so he could just use different guns
19:18
and load them quickly without looking at them like he does in
19:20
this scene. And people have praised him for
19:22
it and he's just absolutely fantastic handling the weapons.
19:25
Yeah, it does work Well, yeah. Have you noticed as well, the
19:28
way he's looking in the phone book, there's that shot when
19:29
Arnold's finger runs down the page and stops at Sarah Connor.
19:33
If you look, the finger on his left hand is already pointing at
19:36
John Connor on the other page. Oh, really?
19:38
I've never noticed that. I've never noticed that.
19:41
Yeah, we've already mentioned them.
19:43
Sarah's roommate, her boyfriend, Ginger and Matt.
19:46
I just want to talk about this scene because won't be the last
19:48
time we see this, but Cameron really can't write or direct sex
19:51
scenes, can he? I mean, ginger in this with the
19:54
headphones on, do you? And sex doesn't say a lot about
19:57
Matt, does it? Like.
19:58
Definitely not damning on my football.
20:01
Absolutely diamond. I mean, it's the kind of thing I
20:04
think Cameron thought was like a funny, quirky thing to put in,
20:06
but it's just a big cringe worthy now.
20:08
Straight Edward as well. I don't think that blouse was
20:10
very big. Did the buttons off one by one
20:12
straight off. The rest of the scene, it's
20:16
great because it's, it's how Wesley described the previous
20:19
scene. It's it's shot like a horror
20:20
film. It is.
20:21
The murderer is in the house and he's going to get them.
20:23
And it's really reminiscing to me of Halloween when Bob gets
20:26
killed in the kitchen. It is no lights on.
20:29
With no lights on. Yeah, yeah.
20:30
I mean, you even get a jump scare with Pug sleep on top of
20:33
the fridge, but I'd love that. The low camera angle that falls
20:36
Ginger into the kitchen, the Terminator quietly entering the
20:39
bedroom and his shadow just falling off the mat while he's
20:42
asleep. Total horror film imagery.
20:45
My reaction is ridiculous, but the killings themselves, the
20:53
really brutal, which I think is a constant throughout the film.
20:56
And it's so good when it goes into that slow more when he's
20:59
about to kill Ginger and the mute gets really discordant and
21:02
distorted. Yet it's a really great thing.
21:04
Really scary actually. Yeah, well, I love much
21:07
reaction. Don't make me bust you up, man.
21:10
Before getting busted right up by Arnold.
21:13
Right back though, doesn't he? What a guy.
21:16
I'll be straight out of there. See you later, Ginger I.
21:19
Want to be fair Ginger? Just make up for the headphones
21:21
during sex with that huge poor sex sandwich which looks
21:24
amazing. I'll be honest with you, I've
21:26
got more of a jump scare with an iguana in the kitchen than the
21:29
Terminator turning up. I think I would rather fuck a
21:31
Terminator. One thing I do like in this
21:34
scene, though, is that there was a recurring theme in the film
21:37
of, like, technology working against humans, foreshadowing
21:40
the rise of the machines Premise.
21:41
Yeah. Yeah.
21:42
Ginger doesn't hear Matt getting busted up because she's wearing
21:44
headphones. And then Sarah's answering
21:46
machine gives her location to Techno, a way to Arnold.
21:49
And that kind of thing carries on through the movie as well.
21:51
Yeah. Memorable.
21:52
See. No clear Flash influences like
21:54
you're saying. Yeah.
21:54
Yeah, huge. And apparently the first person
21:56
cast as Ginger was Jennifer Jason Lee, but she had to pull
21:59
out, so best model was cast instead.
22:02
And she had an aerobic show on TV and the idea was Ginger was
22:06
an aerobics instructor, which is probably why she was cast.
22:10
And Carmen had written the scene to take place in the gym, but
22:12
that was cut out. Yeah, I think as the budget was
22:15
so small coming at, some of the cast kind of dressed themselves
22:18
and Best Mother said that she was a huge Prince fan and that's
22:20
why Ginger weigh the purple robe.
22:23
Huge. Hair for ginger.
22:25
Things like Prince as well. Must be listening to him on the
22:31
headphones. Absolutely.
22:32
Yeah. Just be the Batman soundtrack.
22:33
Just predict the future. Yeah.
22:38
As we've spoke about, Ginger's boyfriend, Matt was played by
22:41
Rick Rossovich. Big fan of Rick Rossovich.
22:43
Loved him in Top Gun. Loved him in Roxanne.
22:45
Hilarious. Roxanne, to be fair.
22:46
Yeah, he's great. And Roxanne, he was a
22:48
bodybuilder at the time and he said it idolized Arnold's and
22:50
seen him in the documentary Pump and Iron.
22:52
And he was thrilled that he got to be killed in a in a movie by
22:54
him. Yeah, Rossovich, Remember who he
22:57
plays in Top Gun. Slider, you stink.
23:00
Obviously. And with that, we're at the end
23:05
of the beginning. We're familiar with all the main
23:07
characters, and I've seen Arnold do some terminating.
23:09
We should probably talk a bit about the guy who pulling all
23:11
the strings. We should indeed Skynet himself.
23:19
The director. The director of the Terminator
23:25
was the one and only James Francis Cameron I and Jim to us.
23:29
Yep. Yep, GFC.
23:33
Having wrote his way up in the industry as part of the special
23:35
effects team at Roger Coleman's New World Pictures, Cameron that
23:38
directed his own short in 1978, Xenogenesis, and being hired,
23:42
then fired as director of Piranha 2 this morning before
23:45
being handed the chance to direct his own script in The
23:48
Terminator. Yeah, we'll talk about the
23:50
writing a bit later, Matt. For now, what do we think of
23:53
James Cameron as director on The Terminator?
23:56
I think it's proof that sometimes limits are the best
23:59
thing a director can have because the more success he had,
24:03
the longest films get, the more self indulgent they get, the
24:06
less people that are around him who will see An Autumn.
24:09
And he's certainly not the only director to do this.
24:11
But then you come back to this way, he's on such a limited
24:13
budget and he will have people around him who will try to see
24:16
An Autumn at least. And honestly, it's just so much
24:19
better for him because everything is so lean and sharp
24:22
and pared back to the minimum. If he had more money, I'm sure
24:25
we would have spent the opening 20 minutes in the future alone.
24:28
But he doesn't, so he has to make those brief glimpses of it
24:31
really count. And that's the thing for me,
24:33
every shot in this counts. Every edit feels propulsive
24:37
because he's just got to keep moving and get the story moving
24:40
forward Exposition is down to the bare minimum.
24:44
The characters don't dawdle around.
24:46
And the net result of all that is this thing just flies like an
24:49
absolute rocket from the salt. And you watch.
24:52
And you think, you know what More directors should be forced
24:54
to bring in films under two hours and on a straight budget.
24:57
Yeah, Because when they're forced to do that, sometimes you
24:59
can get brilliance like this. Yeah, I think if you have more
25:02
money, this will come out like 86.
25:05
Yeah, I mean, the intro I did there makes it kind of sound
25:07
like this was James Cameron's third film as director, but I'm
25:10
not sure it was really. Xenogenesis was a $20,000 short.
25:13
He Co directly with Randall Freaks and then he was director
25:16
of Piranha 2 for about 20 minutes it seems, which we'll
25:19
talk about. If I had twice from that.
25:20
Yeah, and this director here on The Terminator, what can you
25:25
say? I think it's an astonishing
25:27
piece of work. Right from the start of the film
25:29
we see that he's got flavour visuals, especially action based
25:32
visuals, the dynamic way that he moves the camera.
25:34
He's already great at injecting energy in the scenes.
25:38
He works with an inexperienced cast and gets performances from
25:40
them as well. We'll talk more about Arnold
25:42
shortly, but the impact that Cameron had on his career can't
25:45
be overestimated, I don't think. Nah, definitely not.
25:48
He was the first director who went right.
25:50
If he used this guy correctly, it could be great.
25:52
And this is how you do it. Yeah.
25:55
I would say the Cameron's inexperienced at this point does
25:57
show a little at times. There's some moments where the
26:00
way things are cut together feel almost like you didn't get
26:02
enough coverage or something. You mentioned the OSD.
26:04
The scene where Arnold ripped out the punks heart we talked
26:06
about was like that. It suddenly cuts to a close up
26:09
of the guy's dead face. It's a bit jarring.
26:11
But that's nothing because on the whole this is clearly a
26:13
young director of like blazing talent for me.
26:16
If you look at how much Cameron brings as a director, I think a
26:19
good comparison as Canon films, as a concept and with a small
26:22
budget, The Terminator could easily be a Canon film, but it
26:25
is a big difference in quality. Between this and say, Cyborg is
26:29
an understatement, and that difference is mostly James
26:32
Cameron. Hold on, hold on a second.
26:36
You're right. But huge talent for me.
26:39
Yeah, Cameron here, he just arrives fully formed, doesn't
26:41
he? I mean, have you seen these
26:42
sketches here of the Terminator from the fucking dream he had?
26:46
Jesus Christ, people are thinking I'm fucking having
26:48
this. This guy's got it absolutely
26:50
nailed. And this isn't, it's not just a
26:52
fluke either. It's not just he's the
26:53
Terminator guy, he's the everything guy.
26:56
That he's inexperienced here is completely outshone by his
26:58
ambition. This is an ambitious film.
27:01
Massively, yeah. I mean, to me, he is the
27:03
Terminator that he is personified.
27:05
He will not stop until this film is made.
27:07
He will not stop until somebody pays attention to him.
27:10
And I think he just has that energy and you can see that
27:13
through this whole film. He's just got his stamp on
27:15
absolutely everything and not a frame in this film does not
27:19
scream James Cameron to me. It's wonderful to see.
27:22
So I think this guy is just a rightfully formed as a director
27:25
and he's just evolved with cinema and I think that's a
27:27
really special thing. Absolutely.
27:29
That the ambition for a $6.4 million budget film is just
27:33
crazy ludicrous. And he paused it off.
27:35
He does. He absolutely does.
27:37
Yes, as we've mentioned the film in 1981, Cameron was special
27:41
effects director on Piranha 2. The director was a guy called
27:44
Miller Drake. But he was fired after fallout
27:46
with the producer Ovido Asanidis and Cameron was promoted to
27:50
director. But he was then fired as well
27:53
because Asanidis wasn't happy with how long Cameron was taken
27:56
to shoot the film. Yeah, Cameron did say he was
27:59
fired twice from Piranha, too. Yeah.
28:01
And there's a story as well where Cameron apparently broke
28:03
into the editing suite to cut his own version of the film.
28:06
And the credits of Piranha too still say, directed by James
28:09
Cameron, even though he sees that he didn't really.
28:11
Right. So just want to have his name on
28:12
there I think surely. And then when he was filming it
28:15
in Rome, Cameron came down ill and said that he had crazy fever
28:19
dreams in his boarding house. And this is the bit that Wesley
28:22
mentioned, because in one of those streams he saw the image
28:24
of a skeleton like robot crawling out of a fight with a
28:27
knife. And that's point the idea of the
28:29
Terminator. I've had dreams like that, but
28:31
there's no way I could draw it that well, no.
28:33
No, yeah, that concept. Odd.
28:36
He has a knife with his hand. He does.
28:37
And it is basically what we see is the end of a skeleton, like
28:40
crawling the end of the film. So the idea must have been there
28:42
really, really quickly. And Cameron has seven interviews
28:45
that he did hark back like the 70 slasher films and he was
28:48
thinking about making a slasher style film at this point and
28:50
told his agent the idea. His agent said he thought it was
28:53
a bad idea and should focus on the other things.
28:55
So Cameron fired him. Fuck off, obviously.
28:59
He's already James Cameron, isn't he?
29:00
Exactly. But he's got the vision for it
29:02
and he's like, if you can't see it, I don't have time to explain
29:05
it. Exactly.
29:06
Yeah, Get out. If you can't see it from that
29:08
drone, there it is. You don't like it, get out then.
29:11
Exactly. Get out.
29:13
Love it. Get out then.
29:15
Cameron then went to GAIL Anne Heard who was a producer with
29:18
New World Pictures and he'd worked with her on Battle Beyond
29:20
the Stars so knew she had experience with law budget
29:24
science fiction. But the problem they had was big
29:26
studios wanted the script but nobody wanted Cameron as
29:29
director, so come and sold the script ahead for $1.00, meaning
29:33
he and the script came as a package.
29:35
Nice. Yeah, that was a film that she
29:37
said when she met Cameron, he was a model builder on Battle
29:39
Beyond the Stars, but she thought he was the head of the
29:41
department because he was bossing everybody about.
29:43
Yeah. And Cameron Didley.
29:45
I see he regretted selling the rights to the Terminator as
29:47
well, but it sounds like he didn't have much choice.
29:49
No, there's no way a studio was going to let him directly
29:51
otherwise. The guy sucked from piranha to.
29:53
Get in it. Don't think so.
29:55
Doesn't bode well does it? He's taken ages issue Piranha
29:59
too. What the fucks he thinking
30:00
about? I heard said that every major
30:03
studio turned them down. But she had contacts at Orion
30:06
Pictures who'd also worked at New World.
30:09
She gave them the script and they loved it.
30:10
Orion had greatly distributed the film, but said Cameron had
30:13
to get funding from somewhere else.
30:15
Yeah, Mark Goldblood, the editor, we mentioned he came
30:17
from New World as well, right. I think Cameron was calling in
30:19
all their old chief contacts. Yeah, but then John Daly who
30:23
owned Hem Dealer Productions, he got hold of the script HEM
30:25
Dealer based in London. So they if they would Cameron
30:27
and heard over there to pitch the idea and then they agree,
30:30
lit a $4 million budget, but then it rose to $6.4 million.
30:35
And at that time, Cameron was thinking about Lance Hendrick
30:37
simply in the Terminator, because he'd work with him on
30:40
Piranha too. So when they did the pitch,
30:42
Hendrickson turned up at the Hemdale office dressed as the
30:44
Terminator, leather jacket, gold foil on his teeth, stormed in
30:48
and just sat down in the reception till Cameron got
30:50
there. Absolutely insane.
30:54
Apparently, the receptionist dropped her typewriter when she
30:56
saw Hendrickson bargain. Glad you said typewriter.
31:03
There was another problem. After Arnold was cast as the
31:05
Terminator, he was scheduled in the film Corn and the Destroyer.
31:08
And that film's producer, Dino De Laurentiis, wouldn't allow
31:11
him to do it, obviously. Yeah.
31:13
I mean, come on. So production on The Terminator
31:16
was pushed back from Autumn 83 to Spring 84.
31:19
Yeah, well, in that downtime, Cameron storyboarded pretty much
31:22
the whole film, finished the concept designs for The
31:25
Terminator, wrote the screenplay for Rambo First Blood Part 2,
31:28
and a big chunk of the script for Aliens.
31:30
Yeah. Currently did more in that nine
31:33
months than I've written in my entire life.
31:34
Yeah, exactly. Less than this guy.
31:37
And the low budget did lead to issues for our production.
31:40
Reshoots are usually pretty standard nowadays, but Hemdale
31:43
refused to pay for any. And Cameron said he was paid
31:46
$40,000 for direct in the film. But he spent all of it on
31:49
reshoots as well as calling in every way we could by getting
31:52
the cast, the special effects team to come back and work for
31:55
free. And he used sound stages new
31:57
help but didn't pay for them. Yeah, I think there was a load
32:00
of inserts that they had to get. One of them was, you know, that
32:02
shot at Ginger's apartment when the door slides over and we'll
32:05
see Arnold's feet like walking. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
32:08
That was done in race shoots filmed with Galen Hurd's
32:10
apartment, apparently. Yeah, all right.
32:11
And it's not Arnold's feet. They couldn't even get the black
32:13
boots that paint some boots black.
32:16
Not going to call this. Something that's become a James
32:20
Cameron trademark is that he usually uses his voice cameos in
32:23
all of his films and it started in The Terminator where we hear
32:26
his voice three times. He is the voice of Stan Moski
32:29
who cancels his date with Sarah at the start.
32:32
He then plays the manager at the Tiki Motel and answers the phone
32:35
twice, once to Sarah and once to Arnold.
32:38
Right. Yeah, It's when Arnold's like,
32:40
give me your address there, James Camioran.
32:45
Just his voice, though. Before signing off on JC, we
32:48
have our first question from our patrons.
32:50
So of the many benefits you get of becoming an ATRM patron, one
32:54
of the most sought after is surely the chance to have your
32:56
questions answered on the show. Definitely.
32:58
It's like gold, the gold plated teeth.
33:01
You have one of those questions now coming from Russell Fox.
33:04
So hello Russell. Hello, Russell.
33:06
Hello, Russell. And Russell has asked, based
33:08
purely on the elements of time travel, where would you guys see
33:11
the Terminator ranks in order of great time travel movies?
33:15
So what do you think about? I think it's an interesting
33:18
phrase in the question because just purely in those terms, I
33:22
think I'd end up putting this one quite low just because it
33:26
uses it as the setup, but it doesn't do that much else with
33:31
it. It doesn't use it in the way
33:32
that Back to the Future does, which was the cause and effect
33:35
of change in the past, which therefore affects the future.
33:37
So I'd have a blowback the future and think the other two I
33:40
wanted to mention were Looper. I really like what Ryan Johnson
33:43
does with the concept of time travel and that really
33:45
interesting film, and I think 12 Monkeys really gets into time
33:49
travel in a really interesting way as well.
33:52
Yeah, it could be really pretentious and say le Jetty
33:54
I'm. SO tended to say that, but I
33:56
wanted to avoid. It and that the remake 12
33:59
Monkeys. Yeah, I've got a few of them.
34:02
They're Back to the Future Part 2 that as a kid was my first
34:05
exposure to the idea of like on the timelines.
34:07
I think the concept of going back into the first film blew me
34:10
away. I love it.
34:11
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
34:12
Framer by Shane Carruth. Have you seen that?
34:15
Oh yeah, yeah, that's about. Two engineers who accidentally
34:18
discovered time travel only cost $7000 to make.
34:21
Yeah, it's outrageously good. It feels like time travel is
34:24
possible. Yeah, in that film.
34:26
Yeah, it does explore how people might actually behave should
34:28
time travel be invented. Not easy to follow, No, it's
34:30
worth trying to do. Absolutely.
34:32
It's worth watching twice. Yeah, I've also got
34:34
Predestination written and directed by the Spyrig brothers.
34:37
Have either? Have you seen that?
34:38
No. I've not seen that one.
34:40
No spoilers because the reveals are insane.
34:43
When stars Ethan Hawke and Sarah Snook right?
34:45
Based on the story by Robert Heinlein, who wrote Starship
34:47
Creepers. Starship Troopers, right?
34:49
OK, Yeah. I love it.
34:50
Check out if you've not seen it and let me know when you have.
34:53
It is totally bonkers. Right.
34:54
When did that come out? 2017?
34:56
Yeah, I'll try that out for sure.
34:57
Oh. Wow.
34:58
And my favorite, I would say is probably a Spanish film from
35:00
2007 called Time Crimes. Okay.
35:03
Directed by Nacho Vigalondo, it starts with a man.
35:06
She's a topless woman. He follows that finds himself
35:09
thrown back in time. One hour and then things go
35:11
mental, right? It's a really good fresh take on
35:14
time travel, okay. Yeah, that sounds interesting.
35:16
And Wesley? Well, you've said them all,
35:18
haven't you? Yeah.
35:21
I mean, my take's the same as Matt.
35:22
I don't really think this is a train time travel film.
35:24
He doesn't really take the time travel element seriously.
35:27
But for me, there's some that you haven't mentioned, I think.
35:30
Time Cop, obviously. 1. Of the greatest time travel
35:34
action films ever. And time travel is fairly
35:37
central in that film. And another one I really enjoyed
35:39
was Midnight in Paris. Nobody on film, which I thought
35:44
that was. That was really enjoyable and I
35:46
love that. It's nice to have it when it's a
35:47
little bit quirky. Yes, you.
35:49
Have that element too, where it's not all doom and gloom and
35:52
really serious. And I think what he, Allen did
35:53
really well with that, I think that's a great little film.
35:55
So yeah, that would be in there for me.
35:56
And Battle of the Future first one is fucking flawless, so
35:59
yeah. Of course, there were no Oscars
36:01
for Cameron for directing The Terminator, but it had some
36:03
impact on his career. We mentioned he was writing
36:05
Aliens and on the back of The Terminator he was given the
36:08
directing job on Aliens to. The Rest is history and JCS work
36:12
on the Terminator still holds up for us.
36:14
Oh, Morgan holds up. Yeah, definitely.
36:20
The cast. James Cameron was inexperienced
36:25
as a filmmaker when he made The Terminator, and that was
36:27
reflected in the cast too. We're going all in on our three
36:30
main characters, that's Linda Hamilton and Sarah Connor and
36:34
Michael Bean as Kyle Reese. We have to start with the big
36:36
man and title character though, surely?
36:38
Oh yeah, definitely. So Arnold Schwarzenegger is the
36:41
Terminator sent back in time by all machine overlords to kill
36:44
Sierra Connor and prevent her giving birth to the future
36:47
savior of mankind. Arnold is the antagonist of the
36:49
film and what he doesn't say with dialogue.
36:52
He only has 17 lines. He makes up four with plenty of
36:55
action that terminate as out there westie he is and it's
36:58
Arnold. How was the Austrian orc in the
37:02
film? Iconic is the first word that
37:04
springs to mind. He's an absolute icon.
37:07
He reminds me of Cameron. He's just in front of the
37:08
camera. He comes ready formed and ready
37:11
made and ready for this part. He's absolutely all in with
37:14
this. Can we talk about the poster for
37:16
half a second? Jesus Christ.
37:18
Oh yeah. So I saw that in the video shop
37:20
in video Phil where we used to go.
37:21
And honest I was, I need to say that.
37:23
I'll have that as me fucking bedspread now if I could.
37:27
It's outrageously cool. It looks amazing, but he just
37:30
arrives and it's just perfect performance for me.
37:33
I think when Arnold's into something like I'm going to be
37:36
the best bodybuilder in the world, OK, great.
37:38
I would be the governor of California.
37:39
OK, yeah, whatever. Everything is a fucking layup.
37:42
He's just got such a mindset. Whereas if I'm going to do this
37:45
and I'm going to be this bad guy, I'm going to be the best
37:47
version of this bad guy that I can possibly be.
37:50
And that's what makes this film magnetic, is his performance.
37:53
I think if you put anyone else in the role, it really starts to
37:55
sag. Yeah.
37:56
Because you need to be attracted to him on the screen for the
37:59
amount of times that he's in. I mean, he's not in the end.
38:01
He's not in the climax of the film, but you still feel like
38:03
that's him. Yeah.
38:04
It's just a wonderful, wonderful performance.
38:07
But it's just so thick and perfectly laid down.
38:11
And I'm not necessarily I'm frightened by him, I'm just in
38:15
awe. And I'm just very, very
38:16
intimidated by this performance. It's a very intimidating
38:20
presence on the screen. It's a great performance from
38:22
him. I'll never, ever get tired of
38:24
watching it. And I much prefer this
38:25
performance over T2. And I know that's going to be
38:28
kicking up some shit, but I don't care.
38:30
It's just iconic that he came into this and invented this
38:32
character. I think it's wonderful.
38:34
Yeah, I mean, it's crazy, isn't it?
38:36
It is crazy casting choice by Cameron.
38:38
It's a crazy acting performance by Arnold, and it's awesome.
38:43
Like I mentioned, Cameron did think about cast of Lance
38:44
Hendrickson at one point. That was because he thought the
38:46
machines would send back a Terminator that can blend in,
38:49
which makes sense. Yeah.
38:50
Hendrickson has that kind of every man quality.
38:52
Yeah. I mean, Arnold doesn't know.
38:53
No, the machine should have been like, send anyone but this guy,
38:57
this huge Hulk fella. Yeah.
38:59
But to see it works is an understatement.
39:01
And tell you why I think it is. Why the one of the Send a Fred
39:04
on the send a tobler room? It's not just you could Arnold,
39:08
Mr. Universe, like massive custom random bodybuilder and it
39:11
could be terrible, but what makes it sing here is that the
39:14
Terminator isn't human, and have you ever seen a human in real
39:17
life that looks like Arnold? Because I've not.
39:20
No. No close up.
39:21
Not just his muscles, his face as well.
39:23
It looks like he's been cut from granite.
39:25
Yeah, it does look like what a machine might think a human
39:27
looks like. Yeah.
39:28
Going to like, Chachi BT or something and say show me the
39:31
perfect human. I'll give you a picture of
39:33
Arnold. A perfect killer machine, it
39:35
definitely would. Yeah, exactly.
39:36
Yeah, yeah. And that whole limited violence
39:38
as a Terminator, it makes the whole film for coming to see
39:41
that at a time when nobody else could.
39:43
Honestly, if there's a more inspired piece of casting ever,
39:46
then tell me what it is, because I'm not sure I can think of one.
39:48
It's incredible. Yeah, I.
39:51
Mean it sounds like a backhanded compliment, but he's just so
39:54
convincing as a robot under skin, isn't he?
39:58
I think that's trickier than it sounds, though.
40:00
Yeah, think of all the sequels. There's so many different
40:02
Terminators not but not one of them have the conviction that he
40:05
brings. And I mean, a lot of it is
40:07
obviously down to his physicality, but all the same,
40:09
he brings such a menace to this. It is such a genuinely scary
40:13
performance to the point where you think.
40:15
How on earth is anyone going to stop this thing?
40:17
There's no way anyone can stop this guy.
40:20
There's something just so utterly relentless to his
40:22
performance and he's so effective that you overlook the
40:25
fact that the end, when it's just the end of skeleton, it
40:27
doesn't quite move anything like how he's been moving previously.
40:31
You just think that's still the Terminator, though.
40:33
That was what Arnold was. It's a brilliant performance,
40:35
Yeah. It absolutely is, but when
40:37
Hemdale agreed to fund the film, they had one stipulation which
40:40
was at the one that the star in the title role, which is a bit
40:43
of a kick in the teeth for Hendrickson after his whole
40:45
performance of their officers get him out of there.
40:50
Hendrickson was cast as Detective Harley Vukovic.
40:53
Store, obviously. Yeah, he's great.
40:55
He's great. Yeah, but there were a bunch of
40:56
stars considered for the Terminator, if you've heard any
40:59
names. I have heard some names.
41:01
Yeah, we needed to have a look at this because I just thought,
41:03
well, who else could it possibly be?
41:05
And the names were Sylvester Stallone, obviously Michael
41:08
Douglas, Sexual Terminator I. Need to go through the whole
41:13
film naked. Yeah, the sex Terminator.
41:17
And Kevin Klein well apparently just just Kevin Klein.
41:21
I love Kevin Klein that replaced in films This is me second
41:23
favorite over Bruce Willis and death becomes AI Think Kevin
41:27
Klein not getting a part is me favorite thing in the world and
41:30
they were discussed as possible terminators and it came out
41:32
later. The Tom Selleck was offered the
41:33
part but couldn't do it because he needed to keep the Tash.
41:36
I'm just kidding. He couldn't do it because it's
41:37
you're doing clashes with Magnum payer.
41:41
Magnum play I must have been the bane of Selleck's life.
41:43
It cost him Indiana Jones as well.
41:45
Indiana Jones as well. Yeah, you need to shave off the
41:47
Tash about the computer just going.
41:49
That's a perfect human. Give him a touch.
41:50
Well, exactly. Yeah.
41:51
Yeah. We should have had to say they
41:54
look human. Sweat.
41:55
Bad breath, Mustache. Everything.
41:59
Yeah, and GAIL Unheard later said that Mike Metaphor who
42:02
warned Orion Pictures he famously wanted to cast OJ
42:05
Simpson as the Terminator. Carmen was never keen or saying
42:08
the idea of an African American chasing a white woman around LA
42:12
just didn't sit well with him, even though at the time Orgre
42:15
Simpson was really popular. Yeah, he was popular.
42:19
That was the problem, wasn't it? Disturbing him?
42:22
Yeah, well, the idea of casting Arnold also came from Mike
42:26
Medavoy. But he didn't see him as the
42:27
Terminator. He saw him as Reese.
42:29
Apparently. I used to have a meeting between
42:31
Harold and Cameron. All right.
42:32
And Bill Wisher, who will come and write some of the Terminator
42:34
script. He said the Cameron went to that
42:36
meeting planned to pick a fight with Arnold, who didn't have to
42:39
cast him. Good luck with that Jim tear you
42:42
live from. Lunatic.
42:43
I don't know, like that would be a good fighter.
42:46
Celebrity death match. Yeah, so they had this lunch.
42:50
Barry Plumley, he was a producer at Hemdale.
42:52
He was there as well. And Cameron said he was so poor
42:54
he couldn't afford a pair. Plumley had forgot his wallet to
42:57
Arnold, ended up having a pair. And when Cameron got back to the
43:00
Hemdale office, he said to John Daly, look, he's no race, but
43:03
you make a hell of a Terminator. So Daily called Arnold's agent
43:07
there and then, but the agent turned the part down because
43:09
there weren't enough lines. Obviously, Arnold did.
43:12
Take the Part 2 main lines of anything, yeah.
43:15
Good point. Cameron later said the agent was
43:19
a fucking idiot of. Course he did.
43:22
And Barry Plumley, who you mentioned there, I read an
43:24
interview with Cameron where he describes Barry Plumley as a
43:27
jerk off, an idiot and a doofus. Or in the same interview.
43:31
He didn't work on the film in the end.
43:33
But he didn't, he couldn't have been restore.
43:35
I mean the machines destroyed everything apart from the gyms
43:42
protein. Protein shakes.
43:44
Kind of way for the judgment now get rid of this belly, Arnold
43:48
said. He took inspiration from you,
43:50
Brenna, as the gunslinger in Westworld, which I can see, and
43:53
his robotic movement said he put into that he learned how to
43:56
handle guns with both hands at the same time, which was see him
43:58
doing the film, especially in the police station.
44:00
And he apparently stayed away from Linda Hamilton to Michael
44:02
Bean on set, so there was some distance between them.
44:04
Oh nice. Yeah, it was movements that he
44:06
makes as a Terminator where his eyes move first and then his
44:09
head follows. That looks really good.
44:11
Looks brilliant. And that was Arnold's idea as
44:12
well, apparently. But he's banging into it, isn't?
44:15
He but at the time he did have a reputation.
44:18
It has just been a bit of a joke in the industry.
44:21
Michael Bean said his friends has laughed when he told them he
44:23
was in film with Arnold, and Lance Hendrickson said that
44:26
Cameron directed the hell out of him.
44:28
Jim would say I want you to lay there, Arnold.
44:30
Then I'm going to tell you. I want you to lift up your head,
44:32
then your shoulders. Then I want you to sit up.
44:35
Then I want you to look straight up.
44:37
Just do everything, yeah. I.
44:39
Mean he wasn't a joke following Arnold, was he?
44:40
No. And I, I tell you what, good for
44:42
him. Unbelievable what he achieved,
44:44
isn't it? Oh yeah, yeah.
44:45
Ridiculous. Playing the Terminator change
44:47
Arnold's career overnight. He was casting Commando, then
44:50
Predator, and quickly became one of the biggest action stars in
44:53
Hollywood ever. And as a Terminator, maybe James
44:57
Cameron somebody or best about casting Arnold, He said that one
45:00
decision captured the imagination of people.
45:02
It made the film. It really did.
45:05
He's not wrong. The protagonist to Arnold's
45:09
antagonist in the film is Sarah Connor, played by Linda
45:12
Hamilton. Starting the film with a
45:14
carefree teenage waitress, we follow Sarah's journey as she
45:17
finds herself on the run from Arnold, then joining forces with
45:20
Reese before finishing off the machine in the climactic
45:23
showdown. Yeah.
45:24
Does she look like the mother of the future Matt?
45:26
How was Linda Hamilton as Sarah? She absolutely doesn't, and
45:30
that's the point. I think this is the kind of
45:32
performance, I think maybe not being the best actress in the
45:35
world actually helps a lot because I think there are some
45:38
slightly wooden line readings at times.
45:40
But that just feeds an idea that this is the last person you
45:43
would think has been important to the future of the world.
45:46
I mean, she's got a rubbish job, get stood up on a Friday night,
45:50
not a lot going on in life. But I think what Hamilton does
45:52
have is just this innate sweetness and likability to
45:56
Sarah. You feel sorry for her straight
45:59
away and you're on her side. At no point do you think what
46:02
she can fend for herself. So it's very much the damsel in
46:05
distress and you think if Reese wasn't around, she would be dead
46:07
in like 10 minutes. But then that's what makes the
46:10
end and so satisfying, the fact that when Reese is killed, she
46:13
does have to step up, and it's so convincing when she does.
46:17
So think for everything you need to feel about this character,
46:19
everything you need to feel about that journey she goes on.
46:22
From when you see you've been given the runaround by some
46:24
snotty little kid in the restaurant to destroying the
46:26
Terminator, you think she's brought all of that absolutely
46:30
convincing. I agree, I mean she was pretty
46:32
much unknown at the time as an actress.
46:34
Linda Hamilton, I think she'd been in Children of the Corn,
46:36
He'll speak Blue, she'd been in on TV so a great gig for her to
46:39
get Sarah Connor and I think she is good in the role.
46:42
The huge 80s Barnett is crazy, looks like Chris Waddle.
46:48
I think we're Sarah really excels it as a piece of writing
46:51
by Cameron. Great idea especially at that
46:53
time to have the lead in this kind of film be a woman.
46:55
I think she only inspired by Alien and slashes like
46:58
Halloween, Alien Final Girl and stuff.
47:00
I think Sarah has a great arc. The Hamilton poetry is really
47:02
well. When we meet Sarah at the start
47:04
I totally buy her as this young happy girl who's going on dates
47:08
and hanging out with Ginger. But then by the end she's
47:10
totally changed. She's dragging Reese around the
47:12
factory like on your feet soldier and I buy that as well.
47:16
I mean would I say Hamilton elevates what's on the page?
47:19
Maybe not. Sarah is a great character on
47:21
the page. But I think the best from
47:23
Hamilton performance wise was probably yet to come in
47:25
Terminator 2. But here still, as an
47:28
inexperiencing actress, she does really well I think, and a
47:31
brilliant character. Yeah, she just brings this real
47:34
sincere innocence to the role I think, that you buy into, and
47:38
she's confused by it. But again, she could have been
47:41
like, really snotty, really annoying.
47:43
But our character is just so it's just not impulsive.
47:46
She's just listening to everybody else.
47:48
She's just open to their views of the world.
47:50
Went to the police station, is like, there's 30 people here.
47:52
Get your head down, get yourself some rest.
47:53
She's like, OK, well, I'll just be with you then.
47:55
I'll just have to go here. I'll go there.
47:56
She's just so naive as a character, and that's brilliant
47:59
for our arc because at the end she's definitely not just
48:02
focused. She knows what's happening, she
48:04
knows where she's going. And that final scene, you
48:06
totally buy that. You totally buy.
48:08
She's got that dog. She's going places and it's a
48:10
storm coming. I know I'm driving into it.
48:13
It's like, yeah, she's driving away from it the whole film, and
48:15
then she turns around and she's driving towards it.
48:17
I think that's why people left this film and left the cinema
48:19
going fucking yes. What a great action film that
48:22
was because she's done it and she's made it and she didn't
48:25
need that guy's help. Because by the end of it, Reese
48:27
is a bit of a focal. He's a bit like, I'll just hide
48:29
in the bin of it. And he's just, he's not, you
48:32
know, she has to kind of deal with it and, and she does, she
48:35
takes over. I think as soon as you see this
48:37
character, she's got lots and lots of layers, and Hamilton
48:40
dives into those layers really well.
48:42
She does for sure. And there were a lot of other
48:45
names considered by Cameron for the role, these included Jessica
48:48
Harper, Rosanna Arquette, Jean Davis and Leah Thompson.
48:51
He also suggested Kathleen Turner but she was filming
48:54
Romance in the Stone and also suggested Daryl Hannah, which
48:57
she was busy on Splash. And apparently Deborah Winger
49:00
was Casper then changed her mind.
49:02
Yeah, she'd just been an Officer and a Gentleman, Deborah Winger,
49:05
where she'd been nominated for an Oscar, so she might have been
49:07
concerned about what sounded like a crushy Bee movie ruining
49:10
A reputation. Possibly.
49:11
Yeah, You must go nominee. You fancy being in this low
49:14
budget sci-fi piece of shit? From the director of Piranha
49:17
too. Don't think so.
49:20
Daryl and I wasn't busy doing Splash.
49:22
Should have sat in the fucking pool for like 3 weeks.
49:25
The part that came down to two actresses, Linda Hamilton and
49:29
Jennifer Jason Lee. So Cameron thought Lee might be
49:33
too young and cast her as Ginger instead before she had to pull
49:36
out. Yeah, she'd be a teenager at the
49:38
time. I think Jason Lear would be.
49:40
She would have been, yeah. There's loads with their names
49:42
out there as well if you look into it.
49:43
Kate Capshaw. Willie from Temple of Doom.
49:46
Right, OK. Julia Louis Dreyfus as well.
49:48
Apparently we sound a bit unlikely cracking jokes.
49:53
Hey, what's this terminated business?
49:56
George Costanza. They should have been dancing in
49:59
tech model was putting up the Seinfeld moves in three weeks
50:03
before shooting was due to start.
50:05
Hamilton twisted her ankle and tore ligaments and broke a bone
50:08
and she was scared of telling Cameron in case he brought
50:10
Jennifer Jason Lee back in so kept her to herself.
50:13
But then when she could barely run, obviously she had to come
50:16
clean and all the scenes where Sarah runs had to be moved back
50:18
in the shooting schedule. I bet Cameron was bloody livid.
50:22
I'll give you a broken bone. Furious.
50:25
Furious he didn't do it, Hamilton did say Cameron was a
50:31
taskmaster and a very difficult man to work for.
50:34
She said that during film and Cameron would talk down to the
50:36
cast, treat them like props and put them in danger.
50:39
One day she yelled at him and said if you want to see a human
50:41
being on that screen, you better start treating me like 1.
50:44
But you're fucking married and that's.
50:47
When he fell in love with her, yeah.
50:49
It's like she's standing up to us.
50:50
Yes, you do. Andy married Gaylan Heard as
50:53
well, didn't he, Just after the Terminator?
50:54
He did, yeah, Yeah. As with Arnold, appearing in The
50:57
Terminator certainly benefited Linda Hamilton's career.
51:00
She returned her Terminator 2 as well as 2 with that Terminator
51:03
films and here first time out she's good Sarah.
51:06
She's good, very good. Really works, yeah.
51:11
The 3rd and final cast member we're talking about in some
51:13
detail is Michael Bean, who plays Kyle Reese, a time
51:17
traveller from 2029 he sent back in 1984 to protect Sarah from
51:21
Arnold. No mean feat.
51:22
No, he falls for Sarah. Steam's right in there.
51:25
Outrageous. Of course he does.
51:27
And then he's killed by the Terminator in the final act.
51:30
Cyborg don't feel pain, but he does not.
51:33
He's got the scars to prove it. So how was Michael Bean as
51:36
Reese? I'll tell you what magnificent
51:38
hair in this. That's wonderful, isn't it?
51:41
It's I want to come out and it's fucking massive.
51:43
It's wonderful. I mean, in general, he looks so
51:48
good in this. I mean he goes through agony
51:50
being sent back through time and he still looks great when he
51:52
rocks up far from the scars. He still looks pretty good and
51:55
just the physicality has it. It just contrasts so effectively
51:58
to Arnie because of anything. Well, there's no way this guy
52:01
can win a fight, but I would say I think Bean is the best actor
52:04
in the film and he brings just this real creased intensity tree
52:08
Psych. If you didn't see the Terminator
52:10
in action throughout, you just think Reese is an absolute nut.
52:14
He seems unhinged at times. He just has the the manic look
52:17
in his eyes. But that's really important
52:19
because that's what sells the menace in the film.
52:22
Besides Arnie's performance, this genuine feed Reese of what
52:25
will happen, of what the Terminator is capable of, and he
52:29
does manage to bring nuance. I think Therese, because you can
52:32
tell this guy is haunted by what he's saying, by what the future
52:35
is going to be if he doesn't complete this mission and it's
52:37
been his performance and makes you believe in everything when
52:40
it comes to consequences if they fail.
52:43
Absolutely. I think again, a great character
52:45
on the page by coming just the name Kyle Reese.
52:48
Yeah, coolest name ever. He's created names Cameron.
52:51
Yeah, it's up there with like Ethan Edwards from the searches.
52:53
I think it's it's got that ring to it, hasn't it?
52:55
Yeah, yeah. And he's like a classic 80s
52:57
action character. But what makes it really work is
52:59
that I think a lesser film would have made Reese the protagonist
53:02
rather than Sarah. As a lead, he'd be a bit
53:04
predictable. As a support character, he's
53:07
really good. Yeah.
53:08
But again, I think my favorite thing about Reese comes in the
53:10
writing. I'm not sure if this came from
53:11
Cameron or be or maybe both. But it's such a great touch that
53:15
Reese is clearly suffering from PTSD from all the horrors that
53:18
you see in the future. To call him edgy isn't
53:20
understatement. He's off his trolley.
53:23
I think there's like an unspoken tragedy as well because Reese
53:26
must know that he's going to die.
53:28
He's aware there's not an older Reese talking about in 2029.
53:30
So Chant has always killed on this mission, although we just
53:33
say, I don't know, text off. So maybe he just didn't think it
53:35
through properly before seeing You should.
53:36
Have sensible with a little bit more savvy about what the folks
53:39
going on, though shouldn't that really exactly said this guy.
53:42
He's the hardest one we've got. And I would say that being
53:46
slightly overacted times. Yeah, I came across Time for
53:49
you, Sarah. He's after an Oscar.
53:51
I. Love that line.
53:54
It's great. It's great.
53:55
But yeah, great character. He does look great.
53:57
And that's the kind of Auntie Arnold in the film.
54:00
I think Michael Bean is pretty perfect.
54:01
Is Reese? Yeah.
54:02
It does work. I mean, he's physicality.
54:04
He's in great nick, but still pales in comparison.
54:07
He does a great, but he does some really good physical acting
54:10
as well. He just that walk away he does
54:12
once he's got the shotgun and he's ready and the birds fly.
54:14
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That's cool as fuck.
54:16
But honestly, it's just such a believable performance,
54:19
especially when he's in the police station and he's telling
54:22
them about the Terminator, when he's talking to Sarah and the
54:24
car about the Terminator. Yeah, and you just kind of buy
54:26
it. Does anyone want to do this?
54:28
Have Michael Bean say something about the Terminator and then
54:30
just cut in Pee Wee Herman footage of him on that bike
54:34
'cause it would still. Work.
54:36
Jesus Christ, that's the Terminator, 'cause you, no
54:38
matter who you cut in there, it's gonna be believable.
54:40
I use this all the time and I used it in the studio the other
54:43
week. I'm a photographer, by the way,
54:44
for everybody doesn't know. Yeah, you weren't laying down an
54:47
album, are you? Yeah, I wasn't doing that.
54:49
It was this camera that was a little bit dated and they were
54:51
like I will need this and can you do this deliverable And like
54:53
4 Ki was like, well, with these weapons, I don't know.
54:57
And they just went, well, it's not to be so dramatic about it.
55:02
I just love the way he's, he's just, he's thinking about it in
55:04
a day. He down plays a little bit.
55:05
He's like, can I stop them? I don't know how to do it, but
55:07
I've that's what I've got to do. And I really love that about the
55:10
performance. It's just very, very innocent.
55:12
And like Matt said, it's a suicide mission and he knows it.
55:15
Might as well get laid doing it. Absolutely.
55:18
Why not? Why not?
55:20
Yeah, like the other roles, lots of other names considered by
55:23
Cameron Treat Williams, Matt Dillon, Kurt Russell, Scott
55:27
Glenn, Mel Gibson, they were all apparently considered.
55:30
Sting was off the part, but he had to turn it down because he
55:32
was scheduled to pay you in June.
55:34
Oh, June. Yeah, thank God for that.
55:36
I don't know, like that would have been mint.
55:38
Do you think so? Not yeah.
55:40
He's got some chops. I think he would have been good.
55:42
The singing fields of gold with like the truck coming over
55:45
there. You had a bit of a look of Rooka
55:47
how I like whenever that time I. Did he had the look here?
55:50
Look at how we're like what the dead or alive.
55:51
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He'd said that he wasn't
55:54
bothered about auditioning for the part, as he didn't know who
55:56
James Cameron was until he heard that GAIL and Heard had worked
56:00
with Roger Coleman. He auditioned, but his agent
56:03
told him they're going to say you're great but not sure about
56:05
your Southern accent. Yeah, apparently he'd been
56:08
auditioning for a stage version of Cutting a Hot Tin Roof, which
56:10
is set in Mississippi. That morning.
56:12
He couldn't get rid of the accent, right, so he auditioned
56:15
again alongside Rosanna Arquette, apparently, and then
56:18
he got the part. He didn't get the Cutting a Hot
56:20
Tin Roof gig though. OK, Right.
56:22
Because he absolutely will not stop till you were dead.
56:27
Here we go. Can't be bargain well.
56:29
Can't be reason well. And being said that to prepare
56:34
for the role, he studied the Polish resistance in World War 2
56:37
because Cameron told him the camps in the 2029 scenes they'd
56:41
been inspired by images of Nazi occupied Warsaw.
56:44
Right, Yeah. And then that good touch to the
56:46
tattoo resize on his arm like a bar cord and the machines gave
56:50
him presumably very reminiscent of the Auschwitz survivors, that
56:53
which is the idea, surely? Yeah, yeah.
56:56
Time for a second DHTR and patron question now.
56:58
And it revolves around Reese, specifically his clubber.
57:01
So Karim Helliwell. Hi, Kareem.
57:04
Hi, Kareem. I'm O Kareem.
57:06
He's asked top tier Nike trainers worn by Kyle.
57:09
Any other word you mentioned in cinema history of cool trainers?
57:13
Yeah. Trainers sneakers for our US
57:15
listeners. Yes, so.
57:17
What do you think, Rusty? I mean, I'm a big fan of
57:19
anything from the movies that you can get in real life and
57:21
then just pretend you're in the movies in real life.
57:24
Some big highlights for me back to the future and I'm not going
57:27
back to the future two. I'm going back to the future one
57:29
with M Nike Bruins. Oh, them red and white.
57:32
Life Aquatic, the Adidas Rum Sizzu.
57:35
Absolutely iconic. They're great aliens.
57:38
The Reebok Alien Stompers. Oh.
57:40
Lovely. Forest Gump, Wolf of Wall Street
57:42
with the Nike Cortez. Yeah, I think that's quite
57:44
iconic from Forest Gump and this Batman 1989.
57:48
His shoes were modded Nike Air threes.
57:50
Oh. With it, right?
57:51
Yeah, the bad boots. Yeah, they're my favorite, but
57:55
that's my list. Very nice.
57:56
Similar for me. I'll spend probably 25 years
57:58
buying trainers I've seen in films.
57:59
Yeah, the honored Suka Tigers trainers at the Bright Wares in
58:02
Kill Bill. Yeah, Kill Bill.
58:04
I have those. Here's a yellow and black.
58:05
Mine are black and white. Yeah, you couldn't pull off
58:08
yellow bit. No, I definitely couldn't.
58:10
Matt can clearly. Yeah, Yeah, I can.
58:12
I'm wearing yellow. Yeah.
58:13
I've owned a pair of those, my Cortez sneakers, the Forest Gump
58:16
wares. Yeah, I've owned similar ones to
58:17
the ones Martin Mcfly's wares, but it's not a film, it's ATV
58:21
show. An endless gold mine of
58:23
inspiration for great sneakers is Stranger Things.
58:25
Yeah, it is. Yeah.
58:26
The costume design on Stranger Things is awesome, and the
58:29
trainers is a key part of it, yeah.
58:31
Yeah, I mean, I think we couldn't be further apart on
58:33
this question. Me and you too.
58:35
I mean, it's really wasted on me.
58:36
This train is fashion. I've never spent more than £40
58:41
on a pair of trainers in my life.
58:42
Really. No.
58:43
Never watched a film. Gone.
58:45
Wow. Great footwear.
58:46
Not my kind of thing. So.
58:48
Honestly, the one thing that came to mind in this is that
58:51
ridiculous. The scene in I, Robot when Will
58:53
Smith opens a box of trainers converse and he goes a thing of
58:56
beauty. Is it converse?
58:58
Chuck Taylor twos, Yeah. There you go, I wouldn't have a
59:01
clue what to wear, but probably just the worst product placement
59:04
I've ever seen in me. Like, you know, frankly holds it
59:07
up to camera. I bought them.
59:10
Will it work? Then it worked.
59:12
Yeah, Michael Bean didn't win an Oscar for playing Reese, despite
59:15
his best efforts and some great sneakers, but it did do wonders
59:19
for him. He became Cameron's guy for a
59:20
while, showing up again in Aliens and the Abyss and here as
59:24
Reese. A good turn from Michael Bean
59:26
for us. Oh, he's great.
59:27
Yeah, he's great Ham, but I like him.
59:31
So that's our cast. We've talked about some of you
59:33
that's supporting roles already and there are one or two to
59:35
come, but it's all about our main 3 of Arnold, Linda
59:38
Hamilton, Michael Bean I think, and they all give Cameron what
59:41
he and the film needs. Exactly the trifecta of power.
59:45
Absolutely. This episode of All the Right
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1:01:08
The middle. Act 2 of The Terminator and
1:01:13
Cameron ratchets up the action several notches.
1:01:16
We're going to be talking about the huge shot that comes in the
1:01:18
LA police station. But first, it's the huge shot
1:01:21
that comes in a downtown LA nightclub.
1:01:24
Yeah, it is. So what?
1:01:27
Read that she's being stalked by a weirdo in a trench court.
1:01:29
Sarah takes refuge in Tech Noir, A nightclub packed with
1:01:33
revellers, and calls the police. Before they arrived, though,
1:01:36
Arnold turns up, then Reese, and all hell breaks loose.
1:01:39
Yep. So, Westie, fancy a night in
1:01:42
Tech Noir? Absolutely.
1:01:44
Yeah, I know. It's it's unbearable.
1:01:47
First of all, you get me burning fucking by Teddy Kane and the
1:01:53
triangles. What a fucking tune that is and
1:01:55
it's constantly going. Secondly, the phones in the back
1:01:58
where it's the loudest. How the fuck are you supposed to
1:02:00
hear you? It's $4.50 to get in massive and
1:02:04
people are already going 6 now. What a place.
1:02:07
And the seats available. You can just have a seat with a
1:02:09
massive table. The most unbelievable part of
1:02:12
the film. There's so many brilliant
1:02:14
touches in here from a filmmaking point of view.
1:02:16
When she knocks the bottle off the table.
1:02:17
Oh yeah, and Arnold walks behind her and there's just this slow
1:02:21
motion. It cuts to the slow motion, but
1:02:22
the song's still going and it's framed and it's pushed in, and
1:02:25
there's just this build and build and build.
1:02:27
This is where Cameron learned how to build tension.
1:02:29
Because this whole sequence is perfectly timed, All of it.
1:02:34
It's a great hold on him. It's just the right amount of
1:02:37
time before Reese fires. It's just the right amount of
1:02:40
time with the laser on her head. You've seen what's happened to
1:02:42
the first Sarah Connor. Her naivety shines through here
1:02:45
because she's just frozen. She doesn't know what to do.
1:02:47
She wouldn't jump up. It's a completely believable
1:02:49
sequence. And then when that shotgun blast
1:02:52
goes off, I'm going to go back to just normal speed and it's
1:02:55
bam bam, bam, bam bam bam. You are just in there and you
1:02:58
just think, Jesus Christ, he's shot like 6 times and then he
1:03:01
gets up. I remember the first time I saw
1:03:03
it going, you can't stop this guy.
1:03:04
That's it. He's going to kill everybody in
1:03:06
the world. Then he's through the window.
1:03:08
Cameron knows if you break the scene up, if you move from an
1:03:10
interior to an exterior, you take a deep breath, you kind of
1:03:14
go. He's got some space between him
1:03:15
and the Terminator now. Beautifully blocked, beautifully
1:03:18
shot, beautifully directed, and just an absolute blast for the
1:03:21
audience because he's just taking you on a roller coaster
1:03:23
and knows exactly what he's doing with you.
1:03:25
And you just think, right, this is the first time these guys
1:03:28
have met, What the fuck's going to happen from here?
1:03:30
It's just mental, but brilliantly mental.
1:03:33
It absolutely is. I mean, I also want to go to Tet
1:03:36
Noir. Yeah.
1:03:36
I mean, maybe not when all the rest are there, but any other
1:03:39
time? I think we might have been to
1:03:40
somewhere similar. John that's gone, remember?
1:03:43
Stood outside smoking. The 80s dancing from the club
1:03:47
has a great like Footloose. But like I said earlier, we've
1:03:51
seen signs of Cameron's filmmaking time before this.
1:03:54
And then here there's no doubt, like you're saying, Wesley, the
1:03:56
east of slow motion. We're almost scouting about
1:03:58
looking for Sarah and he's got his gunpoint in her face.
1:04:01
Terrifying all that. It's all slow motion and it cuts
1:04:04
back to normal speed with the sound of research shotgun going
1:04:07
off. Brilliant that the sound design
1:04:09
is really good. You can hear the sound of the
1:04:11
shell bouncing off all his metal body and the line.
1:04:14
One of my favorite character and draw lines.
1:04:16
Come with me if you want to. Live.
1:04:17
Yeah, Yeah. I've been didn't get that Oscar.
1:04:20
I have no idea. Fantastic action filmmaking for
1:04:23
me, yeah. Yeah, for me, it's why you've
1:04:25
been taking it's that use of slow more and it's another scene
1:04:28
still feels really brutal. And then considering how many
1:04:31
like bad hair could someone spot fashion is in the scene.
1:04:34
The fact that don't detract one bit from it tells you just how
1:04:37
good this scene really is, how impactful it is.
1:04:40
Yeah, you almost expect to say like Justin Theroux and the lads
1:04:42
from American Psycho just dancing because that the dancers
1:04:45
are exactly the same as the rules.
1:04:46
At the start of the cycle, before Arnold arrives, Sarah
1:04:50
calls the police, I don't know how, and speaks to Lieutenant Ed
1:04:55
Traxler, played by Paul Winfield.
1:04:57
Apparently the part of Traxler was offered to Louis Gossett
1:04:59
Junior and Edward James almost, but neither could do it.
1:05:02
So Cameron asked Winfield. Probably because he knows where
1:05:04
technoire is. Exactly.
1:05:06
Yeah, yeah. I love that Sarah rings the
1:05:08
police and she says I'm in tech Noir and Traxler's like, oh, I
1:05:11
know, 10 Noir. I bet he does Traxler.
1:05:13
I'm going there after me shift. I'm coming down there anyway,
1:05:16
just hang around. Yeah, exactly.
1:05:18
Get us a drink, Emily. And Cameron said that he thought
1:05:22
of tech noir as a sub genre of science fiction that the
1:05:25
Terminator was part of alongside Blade Runner, which is why he
1:05:28
called the club that House. And they created the club at an
1:05:31
abandoned restaurant in downtown LA, Gaylan Heard said.
1:05:34
The people thought it was a real club and queue to get in and
1:05:36
they had to start turning people away.
1:05:38
If you look closely, me and John are in the queue.
1:05:44
She also said they were so desperate for cash and thought
1:05:46
about letting them in and charging them.
1:05:48
Wouldn't put it past them camera.
1:05:49
That guy going through the window was Cameron pushing
1:05:51
somebody through that is cutting in, Yeah.
1:05:53
Exactly. Yeah, but those people show you
1:05:55
that have been more than happy to pay if you knew what was
1:05:57
going to turn into definitely. Yeah, Mark Goldblatt was the
1:06:00
editor and said the studio were given Cameron Heat because he
1:06:03
wasn't shooting traditionally in terms of getting an establishing
1:06:06
shot or master shot for scenes. The show Goldblatt, the raw
1:06:09
footage from Technoir and as soon as he saw it he said he
1:06:11
knew it was brilliant and the studio backed off a bit.
1:06:16
Yeah, I've seen Cameron be really complimentary of Mark
1:06:17
Goldblatt, he said. If he can take threadbare
1:06:20
coverage with the Terminator and make an exciting sequence, then
1:06:23
you are a man, my son. The lesser known Kipling verse
1:06:27
there. James Kipling, Cameron.
1:06:31
Amazing. That's the thing as well.
1:06:33
Like the edit and then this sequence is head and shoulders
1:06:36
above the start. It is.
1:06:37
It's like a different film. And then after this, he got a
1:06:40
really great car chase, which I always forget just how good the
1:06:42
sequence is, but it's brilliant. Yeah, it's great.
1:06:45
Really good. Really good.
1:06:46
I think the music adds so much tension here.
1:06:49
And it's another scene just highlighting the contrast
1:06:51
between Reece and the Terminator because Reece is clearly smart
1:06:54
enough to know not to waste any more bullets on it, but to shoot
1:06:57
the fuel tank of the car and said to think, oh, great, this
1:07:00
guy, he's smart. But actually, it doesn't matter
1:07:02
because of the Terminator will just run through the flames
1:07:04
anywhere and hurl itself at the car.
1:07:07
So again, just reinforcing the idea of it's got the physicality
1:07:10
to withstand anything. So what can stop this thing?
1:07:13
But I think Reese in the scene, this is when he seems the most
1:07:15
unhinged. Don't move unless I say, don't
1:07:18
make a sound unless I say, like, really screaming at that.
1:07:21
He didn't. Say.
1:07:23
But he isn't saying because that when he says he's he'd help.
1:07:25
And he goes in the whole Sergeant Techcom DN38416, you've
1:07:29
been targeted for termination. What on earth is she meant to
1:07:32
make of all that? He surely knows she's not going
1:07:36
to understand a single word he say anyway.
1:07:37
I mean this introduction as well.
1:07:38
What's the date? What year?
1:07:44
Yeah, but shoot out straight into a car chase.
1:07:46
Classic camera and that. And it's really well put
1:07:48
together. Yeah.
1:07:49
I wanted the Arnolds, a little bit of a big lunk, I think, in
1:07:51
the way that he runs. Yeah.
1:07:53
I expected to him there to be like Linford Christie.
1:07:55
I mean, like how fast he is. Not the lunch box, obviously.
1:07:58
Obviously. So about the start.
1:08:00
Exactly. My favorite part of the chase,
1:08:03
though, is when we leave Tech Noir and get our first sight of
1:08:05
Arnold's POV, that red kind of digital screen that we'll see
1:08:08
now and again. I love that.
1:08:10
It's great. And something else we'll see
1:08:11
start here is the way Cameron layers an exposition.
1:08:14
Obviously there's a lot of exposition needed for the
1:08:16
Terminator to explain who Arnold is, who Reese is, and what the
1:08:19
future is like. And here Reese basically
1:08:20
explains everything that's going on to Sarah in the middle of
1:08:23
this frantic car chase, which I think works really well.
1:08:26
And I mean, poor Sarah, she must be thinking what in the hell is
1:08:30
going on. Again, on a low budget, great
1:08:33
action filmmaking for me. To film the moment that Arnold
1:08:37
Leafs through the flames onto the front of the car, Arnold
1:08:39
allow the car bonnet with flames around him.
1:08:42
He shaved his eyebrows off and was worried about not growing
1:08:45
back right so. So he had them insured for
1:08:49
apparently 1,000,000. Wow. $1 million.
1:08:54
Imagine how much Marty Scorsese's eyebrows would be
1:08:57
insured for. Yeah, so Arnold's eyebrow burned
1:09:02
off in that scene. So every time we're seeing from
1:09:04
then on, he was wearing makeup and you can see that he's got no
1:09:06
eyebrows, which is quite a nice touch.
1:09:08
Yeah. And the smoking jacket you
1:09:09
mentioned there, they did that by pouring acid onto his jacket
1:09:12
so you can see him burning from the fire.
1:09:14
Wheel it looks great. It does look good, yeah.
1:09:17
And then because of lack of budget they couldn't afford big
1:09:19
teams of stuntmen or health and safety obviously.
1:09:22
So when the film the car chases the drove the cost of normal
1:09:25
speed and then speed up the footage.
1:09:27
And the moment Arnold punched us through the windshield, the car
1:09:30
was actually stationary and crew members were either side moving
1:09:32
the walls. Nice.
1:09:34
Yeah, the behind the scenes footage of that, it looks like a
1:09:37
bunch of students making a film. And what we see on the screen
1:09:40
somehow looks really good. Yeah, guerrilla filmmaking,
1:09:43
Cameron called it. Yeah, and its finest.
1:09:46
The Terminator POV that we mentioned was designed with some
1:09:49
basis in reality. The text that runs down the
1:09:51
screen is written in 65-O2 assembly, a computer language
1:09:54
created in the 1970s. Six 5O2 assembly is a great name
1:09:58
for a band, by the way, if anyone.
1:09:59
It really is. I think the Commodore 64 right
1:10:03
on that as well. So nice.
1:10:04
That makes sense, yeah. Should have been audible playing
1:10:07
double dragon at some point. And then after this, I just want
1:10:13
to quickly mention the scene where Arnold mends himself in
1:10:15
the bedsit, because it's the only scene in terms of effects
1:10:18
where you go. It's a bit of a shame that one,
1:10:20
isn't it? Like, I get why it's in there
1:10:22
because the concept is great. It's disgusting, but it's
1:10:25
brilliant because it adds to the inhuman nature if this thing.
1:10:28
It doesn't feel pain. And it's our first glimpse, that
1:10:30
red mechanical eye, which is really important.
1:10:33
Yeah. Not great.
1:10:35
Yeah. Does it take you out of the film
1:10:37
a little bit? A little.
1:10:38
Yeah, just a little bit, yeah. I mean the moment that Arnold
1:10:40
cut his arm open and we see the mechanics for the first time.
1:10:43
That's fantastic. That blew me away.
1:10:46
First time I saw that, yeah. His finger bends when he pulls
1:10:49
the right thing. Yeah, that's fantastic.
1:10:51
Yeah, it's really good that. Yeah, I'm not sure how well the
1:10:53
effects of age, but I don't like how well thought through
1:10:55
everything is. Obviously Cameron wanted to get
1:10:57
Arnold in those sunglasses because that's the images of
1:10:59
film on that poster. Yeah.
1:11:00
What happened for a reason. His eyes damaged three ways.
1:11:02
Sonny's not draw attention to it, so it kind of makes sense.
1:11:05
Yeah. And how much old landlord in the
1:11:07
vest. Hey, we back muscles to go.
1:11:10
Hey, buddy. And the fake Arnold head in the
1:11:15
scene. I was created by the Stan
1:11:16
Winston Studio, who we'll talk about a bit later.
1:11:18
We will, but it took seven artists seven months to create
1:11:21
the animatronic and for the close-ups of the eye moving
1:11:24
about the film, the inside of a camera lens.
1:11:26
Nice. Yeah, that red eye grey 2001
1:11:29
influence maybe from Hal 9000. Yeah, it's very hard.
1:11:32
Possible. Yeah, very much.
1:11:34
So Technoir sees the action scenes growing in scale, and
1:11:37
they're about to get even bigger again.
1:11:40
Oh yeah, of course they are. Following the car chase, the
1:11:44
police do finally show up. Sarah's taken into protective
1:11:47
custody and Reese just plain old custody.
1:11:50
The police tell Sarah she's safe, but to haven't reckoned
1:11:53
for Arnold. He turns up, armed to the teeth
1:11:56
and blitzes through the entire station, killing police officers
1:11:59
as he goes. How does it go for you, Matt?
1:12:02
I think this interrogation scene with races, Michael Bean's best
1:12:06
scene, he's so into this. He certainly is he.
1:12:09
Really is. I mean, even the way he sat in
1:12:12
that chair, he looks twisted, like he's ready just to burst
1:12:15
out of those handcuffs and make a run for it.
1:12:17
And he brings so much conviction to what is essentially a lot of
1:12:21
exposition, because a lot of this film comes down to
1:12:26
contrast. And the contrast he is between
1:12:27
Reese's anguish is at the situation he's in and Silverman
1:12:31
just laughing at him, thinking, oh, this is going to be great
1:12:33
for my career. Like seeing how brilliant this
1:12:35
guy's delusion is. So plays that contrast really,
1:12:38
really well. But he's just got that
1:12:40
desperation to escape. And the fear coming from Reese
1:12:42
and Beane's performance, it's sore, palpable.
1:12:45
You can really feel it. So he plays a really well.
1:12:48
But like I say, it's actually only he for exposition because
1:12:51
it answers questions. We might have been thinking,
1:12:53
yeah, that's why he couldn't bring weapons.
1:12:55
But then that's why the Terminator could get through
1:12:57
despite being made a metal. So actually the scene, it's
1:13:00
really cleverly written because it disguises all all these
1:13:03
questions and answers in the scene that just lets Michael
1:13:05
Bing just dominate it. It's great how it's all shot as
1:13:08
well from the security cameras perspective.
1:13:10
Oh yeah. Brilliant.
1:13:11
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you're going to do
1:13:12
this whole monologue and we've just got this angle, they say,
1:13:16
right, You have to sell it for that one camera.
1:13:17
OK, great. Yeah, brilliantly done.
1:13:19
Yeah, I think it's really good and beans going helpful out
1:13:21
there by this point. That's what he does.
1:13:23
That's all he does, get off. Me.
1:13:27
It's great. Right.
1:13:28
I mean, I just have to catch me breath here a little bit just to
1:13:31
talk about this because Oh yeah, it's just wonderful.
1:13:34
From the doctor walk now checking the beeper.
1:13:36
It is just outrageous from that moment that I'll be back.
1:13:41
Iconic. You totally know that that's a
1:13:44
dummy. And you don't give a shit when
1:13:45
the car smashes into them. You don't care.
1:13:48
And then from there, it's just absolute carnage.
1:13:52
This precision. He steps out the car with two of
1:13:55
the biggest guns I've ever fucking seen in your life.
1:13:57
And you just go, well, I've seen what he's done.
1:13:59
And he just absolutely lights up the place.
1:14:01
And the moment they were running behind the wall, we're seeing it
1:14:03
from his point of view when he shoots the wall and you know,
1:14:05
the guy's dead. But the great thing for me is
1:14:07
that, you know, she's reassured that there's 30 people in this
1:14:09
police station. There's that many people there
1:14:12
on your side. That's fine.
1:14:13
There's 30 people killed in this scene.
1:14:15
Wow, Cameron makes you say that? He kills exactly 30 people.
1:14:19
It's just brilliantly done to that level.
1:14:21
And Henrickson and some of those left the imagination, I think.
1:14:25
And that's great because you see a lot of the deaths, but there's
1:14:27
are hard hitting. It's the characters that matter
1:14:29
to you. You see them off screen.
1:14:31
It's Cameron being really emotional about this and being
1:14:33
these guys matter now, the dead and everyone who didn't really
1:14:36
matter is just torn apart in front of you.
1:14:38
And I think that's a really clever way to do it.
1:14:40
And then the whole scene, once the Terminator gets out, he
1:14:42
walks away, the building's on fire.
1:14:44
He gets really good Blues, really good fire.
1:14:46
So you've got, you know, the orange and teal of the whole
1:14:47
scene and it fades to black. There's no hard cut at the end
1:14:51
of the scene. It's like Cameron Discord, Yeah,
1:14:54
clapping to himself as it slowly fades to black and.
1:14:58
The curtains coming in. Yeah, it is.
1:14:59
It's like intermission. It's one of them sequences where
1:15:03
if this comes on, if he's standing at that desk inquiring
1:15:06
about where Sarah O'Connor is, you're late.
1:15:09
You're late for whatever you're going to do.
1:15:10
I don't care. You are watching this sequence.
1:15:12
It's just fucking brilliant. Henrickson coming out.
1:15:14
Hey. It lights up the screen and it
1:15:20
just provides the energy to see you through the end of the film.
1:15:24
It definitely does. There's another moment of
1:15:26
technology working against the humans here that you mentioned.
1:15:28
Westie, When Arnold walks into the station, Silverman's walking
1:15:31
out, distracted by his pager going off.
1:15:32
Yeah, yeah. So he.
1:15:33
Doesn't see Arnold. Yeah, no excuse.
1:15:35
The death Sergeant, though, Arnold comes in like a man
1:15:38
mounting sunglasses at night and he goes, where is Cheryl
1:15:41
O'Connor the most suspicious man in the world.
1:15:44
And the Sergeant just goes, I'll just.
1:15:45
Take a seat. I'm a friend of Sarah Carter.
1:15:48
Yeah. Can I see her, please?
1:15:50
What? You're afraid of Sarah Colour.
1:15:53
But what sequence? In horrors, the final girl
1:15:55
getting to the police station is sometimes the end to the point
1:15:57
where she's safe. Yeah.
1:15:59
Not when Arnold's about, though. And when Cameron came up with
1:16:01
this idea, like Arnold just marauding through the police
1:16:04
station, unstoppable, he must have thought that is going to be
1:16:07
awesome. Yeah.
1:16:08
And he was right. And the way he develops the
1:16:10
relationship with Sarah and Reese works really well.
1:16:12
I totally buy it. She runs to Reese for
1:16:14
protection. Yeah.
1:16:15
Especially when the alternative is vocation.
1:16:17
Still bombing. We were already dead at that
1:16:19
point. This is Cameron's like
1:16:22
attention. You can see he's put the most
1:16:23
attention into the sequence in the whole of the film.
1:16:25
Loads. Yeah, it's a big step piece.
1:16:27
Isn't it? Yeah, I think so.
1:16:28
Yeah. I mean, this is the scene that
1:16:30
just stuck with me on that first hearing because you talk about
1:16:33
relentless. This is relentless.
1:16:35
And then so again, really effective use of the red tinted
1:16:38
POV. I think we've come to really
1:16:40
like Traxler in particular. So it's sad to see him go here,
1:16:43
but it feels like this is what we've been waiting for because
1:16:46
we've only seen the Terminator in action one-on-one with three.
1:16:49
So the question is, well, how? How's it going to fare against
1:16:52
basically a whole armored platoon, which is what is here.
1:16:55
And this is how it fares against them.
1:16:57
It just wipes them out without a scratch on it.
1:17:00
It's another part of this film that does not age today.
1:17:02
It's just incredible. Put a load of police dog in
1:17:05
there though. What a bark at him.
1:17:06
Just bark at him and then run out.
1:17:10
And this is the first time Arnold says I'll be back in a
1:17:13
film, which became his catch phrase.
1:17:14
As we all know in the script. It was originally I'll come
1:17:17
back, I'll come back. And Arnold wanted to say I will
1:17:21
be back. I don't know if that works as
1:17:23
well, he said, because he thought it sounded more machine
1:17:25
like, which I can see. It's a small syllable, Cameron
1:17:28
said. He just struggled to say it and
1:17:29
said to Arnold, I don't tell you how to act, so don't tell me how
1:17:32
to write. Even though he definitely tells
1:17:35
him how to watch nonstop. And Cameron said that when the
1:17:39
scene played for audiences, they laughed.
1:17:41
And I'll be back, even though it wasn't meant to be funny.
1:17:43
Yeah, he said. That's when they knew that the
1:17:45
terminal I was working as a character because it kind of
1:17:46
took on a life of its own. Yeah, yeah.
1:17:49
He leans forward as well though, doesn't he?
1:17:51
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
1:17:53
And after this, at the police station, Sarah and Reece, they
1:17:56
hide out in a tunnel overnight and in the morning we'll see the
1:17:58
air is all misty. And that's because there was a
1:18:00
Med fly scare in Los Angeles at the time.
1:18:02
So what we could see is actually book spray in the air.
1:18:06
Yeah, Michael Bean said. The book spray guys simply
1:18:08
following them around because they got hit like 5 times.
1:18:10
But it does look good. That looks really good.
1:18:12
All the mist. Yeah, does.
1:18:14
We'll get another scene from 2029 here.
1:18:16
My favourites, I think all these flash forwards or flashbacks or
1:18:19
whatever they are with Reese and their resistances compound, the
1:18:23
Terminator breaks in and starts shooting.
1:18:25
That Terminator was played by Frank Colombo, another
1:18:27
bodybuilder who used to compete in events with Arnold.
1:18:29
And another fact is our beloved Colombo from the television
1:18:33
series Colombo is actually called Frank Colombo, though he
1:18:36
never says his first name, but it's on.
1:18:38
Lovely, yeah. Wow, OK, same here.
1:18:40
I'd rather see him in there. Imagine that there just one more
1:18:42
thing my wife likes chicken. This is nice image.
1:18:52
Isn't that sequence as well? I like that crossfade transition
1:18:55
from the closest of Sarah's face to the future.
1:18:57
And then they do the same thing but again, that girl watching
1:18:59
the TV in the future, it's just on fire.
1:19:02
That's insane. Graham Yeah.
1:19:04
I love the way like Reese's take interacting with them, like
1:19:06
holds his gun up as if to like kind of shoot them.
1:19:08
It's it's a nice touch. Yeah, and somehow we've made it
1:19:12
through the middle of the Terminator and we're still here.
1:19:15
Sarah and Rees are together, but Vukovic, Traxler and the LAPD
1:19:18
are out of there. Just our heroes and Arnold now.
1:19:21
Yep. Sarah Connor, right?
1:19:22
Yeah, just one more thing. The crew.
1:19:30
As we've been talking about, James Cameron was very
1:19:32
inexperienced as a filmmaker, and the budget for The
1:19:35
Terminator was very small. So it was largely a team of
1:19:38
unknowns working behind the scenes.
1:19:40
Unknown back then, at least. We're going to be talking about
1:19:42
the music on the film, as well as some of the crazy visuals put
1:19:45
on the screen. But first, it's the writing of
1:19:48
The Terminator. Yeah, so the credited screen
1:19:51
right there's on The Terminator are James Cameron and GAIL Anne
1:19:54
Hurd. Hurd's credit was largely
1:19:56
functional, giving her an incentive to buy the script from
1:19:58
Cameron for $1.00. And both Hurd and Cameron have
1:20:01
said that he essentially wrote the script.
1:20:04
Yeah. How do we deal with O Westy, I
1:20:06
and Jim as screenwriter on The Terminator?
1:20:08
Well, I mean, come on, What's that say about it?
1:20:10
I mean, there's so many times we're sitting and we're talking
1:20:12
about the writing of a film and how it's picked up, and then as
1:20:14
the shooting, they're thinking, well, might change this or might
1:20:16
change that, might add this. I think there's too much on the
1:20:19
page. He couldn't fit it into the
1:20:20
film. Yeah, just his ambition and his
1:20:22
imagination overflowed on the page.
1:20:25
And I've read the treatment. I know you have, John.
1:20:28
There's so many ideas in that it's ludicrous, crazy.
1:20:31
It's spilling off and not everything got into there and
1:20:33
they're all good ideas. There's nothing I'm reading
1:20:35
going out and see why he cut that out.
1:20:37
I'm just thinking why didn't he put that in?
1:20:39
And I think that's the Camerons credit.
1:20:40
I think all of his writing is absolutely top notch.
1:20:43
I think he's great with dialogue.
1:20:44
I think he's great with set pieces.
1:20:46
I think everything's on the page there that keeps people zipping
1:20:48
along. I think you would read this and
1:20:50
be as excited as you would have been watching it.
1:20:52
So I think actually the writing on The Terminator is what got
1:20:55
the film made, because his ambition was there in every
1:20:58
single word, and it's flawless as far as I'm concerned.
1:21:02
As a piece of writing, yeah, I think it's exceptional.
1:21:04
To be honest, it's a science fiction short story.
1:21:06
It's like Philip K take or something, that treatment.
1:21:09
Yeah, and it does the things that screenplayers are
1:21:11
apparently supposed to do really well.
1:21:12
The characters are well written, like we talked about.
1:21:14
Sarah's are called up especially well.
1:21:16
I think he writes the exposition really well.
1:21:18
There's a lot, but never undermines the narrative or the
1:21:20
action. And the whole concept is really
1:21:22
well thought through. But for me, like you're saying
1:21:25
Rusty, it's the ideas that leave out.
1:21:27
Cameron has literally got more ideas than he can fit in.
1:21:30
He explores like 5 classic science fiction tropes.
1:21:33
There's Cyborg bad guy time travel, AI, disturbing future
1:21:38
and Rise of the Machine jeans all in one film.
1:21:40
Even threw like a time paradox in there around Reese being born
1:21:43
after John Connor but being his dad mental and it all ties
1:21:48
together great. I totally buy this world cameras
1:21:50
created. And even though there's loads
1:21:52
going on, it's pretty easy to follow.
1:21:54
I think he makes it look a lot easier to do that than it
1:21:56
actually is. Yeah, definitely.
1:21:58
Yeah. And I mean, there's a lot of
1:21:59
great things Cameron brings to film, but I think the screenplay
1:22:02
stands up there among any of it still, decades later.
1:22:05
It feels like a really exciting piece of writing.
1:22:07
Yeah. Back then must have been
1:22:09
incredible. Yeah, definitely an absolute
1:22:10
inspiration to just say just, you know, stick with your
1:22:13
convictions and put your ideas down because most of them will
1:22:15
be great. It is inspirational.
1:22:17
I find it, yeah. Yeah.
1:22:19
Yeah, we said earlier this was originally a slasher concept and
1:22:22
that's sort of prevalent in the writing still, and that's what I
1:22:24
really pick up on. Like underneath the robots, the
1:22:26
sci-fi tropes. It's a horror film and people
1:22:29
talk about horror, slash sci-fi films and they'll mention
1:22:32
obviously early in The Thing. But I think The Terminator
1:22:35
should be put in that bracket more than it is because you've
1:22:38
got Sarah Connor, she's obviously final girl, and
1:22:40
obviously men are killed as well.
1:22:41
But the two most intimate kills are the other, Sarah and Ginger.
1:22:45
So it's targeting women, the killing of Ginger, him out.
1:22:47
We talked about that. Totally staged as a horror film
1:22:50
sequence. The idea of an unstoppable
1:22:53
killer pissy when one girl and killing anyone in his way.
1:22:55
I mean, that's every Friday the 13th movie.
1:22:58
That's Michael Myers thrown through.
1:23:00
Yeah, Reese trying to warn the police but being ignored.
1:23:03
That's a horror trope. And ultimately he because the
1:23:05
boyfriend who dies valiantly trying to save the love of his
1:23:09
life. And certainly the last 10
1:23:11
minutes of a horror film, you think the killer's dead, but no,
1:23:14
there's one last scare. That's Jason jumping out of the
1:23:17
lake, that's Freddie grabbing Nancy's mom and pulling her
1:23:19
through the door. And that's the Terminator.
1:23:21
He saw the right. And for me, this family places
1:23:24
it in the horror genre just as much as the sci-fi, which I
1:23:27
think is just an interesting man looking at it it.
1:23:29
Shows he's influenced by all them films but never rips off
1:23:31
anything. You kind of always ripped off
1:23:33
Capricorn one, but he hasn't. Yeah, yeah.
1:23:35
Capricorn one, yeah. Yeah, it's just a massive
1:23:37
influence. I think just the actual
1:23:39
Terminator character is so original he can do what he wants
1:23:42
after he's got that. Yeah, 2 right.
1:23:44
And Cameron said he wrote the first draft of The Terminator
1:23:46
when he was sleeping on Randall Free Explore, the Co director of
1:23:49
Xenogenesis. And the first draft had some
1:23:52
help from his friend William Wisher, who acted in
1:23:54
Xenogenesis. Wisher helped write some of the
1:23:56
early scenes with Sarah and scenes in the police station,
1:23:59
and he's credited as providing additional dialogue.
1:24:02
Yeah, I wish. I apparently came up with
1:24:03
Reese's line. He reached down her throat and
1:24:05
put her fucking heart out, which is nice.
1:24:07
Yeah, yeah, I'd love that to be a credit just to do the arrow
1:24:10
that line. Oh, great.
1:24:11
Yeah, he's in the film as well. William Wisher.
1:24:15
Do you know where? No, no, no clue.
1:24:17
He plays a police officer. Arnold steals his squad car and
1:24:21
bangs his head off the door. Oh, that guy.
1:24:23
Is that after the hit and run? Yeah, yeah.
1:24:25
But yeah, OK. And Cameron said his first idea
1:24:27
was that there were going to be 4 time travellers, 2 humans, 2
1:24:31
terminators. One of the humans died in the
1:24:33
time jump when he materialises meshed with the wire fence.
1:24:37
And Reese and Sarah would destroy the first Terminator in
1:24:39
the midpoint of the story, leading the machines to send a
1:24:42
second one made out of liquid metal.
1:24:44
Obviously the technology wasn't there at the time, so come and
1:24:46
how to wait until Terminator 2 for that?
1:24:48
Unbelievable enough ideas for two films.
1:24:51
Oh yeah, ridiculous. I mean, the T1000 was still
1:24:54
groundbreaking when we saw it in 1991.
1:24:56
I'm gonna kill with the idea. 10 years before that, yeah.
1:25:00
When Ryan first read Cameron's script, they loved it, but there
1:25:02
were two major pieces of feedback.
1:25:05
One was that they wanted to develop the relationship between
1:25:08
Sarah and Reese, which Cameron did, and the other was that they
1:25:11
wanted Reese to have a robot dog as a sidekick.
1:25:15
And Cameron was like, no fucking way.
1:25:20
Rightly so. K9.
1:25:23
K9 Yeah, yeah, those robot dogs off Black Mirror.
1:25:26
Terrifying. Oh yeah, that would have been
1:25:27
fun. That was the first ever sort of
1:25:30
Black Mirror I ever watched. Oh, really?
1:25:32
That black and white 1 Brilliant.
1:25:33
That would have been good. But after the film was released,
1:25:36
Orion and Cameron were hit with a couple of copyright lawsuits
1:25:39
and the first was Harlan Ellison and he was an Audible science
1:25:41
fiction writer and he claimed that Cameron had plagiarized 2
1:25:45
episodes of the Out Limits that he wore in 1964.
1:25:48
One of these was called Soldier where two battling warriors from
1:25:51
the future sent back in time and the other was called Demon with
1:25:54
a Glass Hand, which is about time travellers trying to save
1:25:57
mankind's future saviour. And Orion didn't want to go to
1:26:00
the expense of going to court, so they just paid Ellison off,
1:26:03
which is why the end credits now say acknowledgement to the works
1:26:06
of Harlan Ellison. Yeah, Cameron's always denied
1:26:09
copying anything from anywhere, and he said it was Harlan
1:26:11
Ellison. He's a parasite who can kiss my
1:26:14
ass. I wish James Cameron was like me
1:26:18
uncle or something. He's great, I love him.
1:26:20
I'm getting bullied at school. No, you're not anymore.
1:26:24
And then a writer called Sophie's Steward said Cameron
1:26:26
had copied the script she wrote called The Third Eye, and that
1:26:30
was said in a dystopian future and revolved around machines
1:26:32
rising up. She said a week after she sent
1:26:35
this script into Fox, GAIL Anhert set up her own production
1:26:38
company to make The Terminator, but this case was just dismissed
1:26:42
in court. Right.
1:26:44
Yeah, she's known as the mother of the maid Rick Sophia Stewart.
1:26:46
She came to Wachowski ripped her off as well.
1:26:48
All right, she's got farming. For his work as Right Around The
1:26:52
Terminator, James Cameron received no major award
1:26:54
recognition, and considering the screenplays for Beverly Hills
1:26:57
Cop and Splash were both Oscar nominated that year, I think he
1:27:01
could have been absolutely. Wow, yeah, didn't know that, but
1:27:04
yeah, you know. Splash.
1:27:07
Either way, create screen writing from JSE for us.
1:27:09
Yeah, now you've said that fucking too, right?
1:27:15
Something James Cameron didn't do on The Terminator was compose
1:27:18
the music. He handed that over gradually,
1:27:21
no doubt, to Brad Fiedl. Yeah, I'm.
1:27:23
Surprised. He former keyboard player of the
1:27:28
soft rock G Roll Hall the Notes. This was the first feature
1:27:31
feeling he'd worked on as composer.
1:27:33
So Brad Fiedl, Matt Fiedler on the roof of his music on The
1:27:37
Terminator. You're going to go for that,
1:27:39
Matt. I mean, first credit.
1:27:44
That's incredible. Yeah.
1:27:46
And for film made on a small budget, we all know that the
1:27:48
music doesn't sound like it's made on a small budget for one
1:27:52
second. This sounds really expensive
1:27:54
because it's huge. It has so much tension, so much
1:27:57
menace. There are bits of the film that
1:27:59
I think I've dated, but the music is not one of them.
1:28:01
That main theme, it does just sound like huge bits of metal
1:28:04
clanging to together, which is completely appropriate for the
1:28:07
film. All of the synths in it, all of
1:28:09
the melancholic motif that runs through what so just always
1:28:12
associate with Sarah. But I think my favorite bit of
1:28:15
music is the piece that plays when the endoskeleton rises out
1:28:18
of the flames. Oh yeah, great.
1:28:20
That is proper horror movie music.
1:28:22
So overall. It is.
1:28:24
Fantastic work by Friedel. Yeah.
1:28:27
Yeah, I mean, it doesn't matter how talented you are as a film
1:28:29
maker like Cameron clearly is, you still need to rely on other
1:28:32
people at some point to produce the goods as well.
1:28:35
And Field definitely does that for me.
1:28:37
Synthesizer base score, of course, to reflect the future
1:28:40
technology subject matter. That's a classic way of doing
1:28:42
that now. But by then, synthesizers are
1:28:44
relatively new in films still. Yeah, I think the overall score
1:28:47
captures that kind of dark, intense tone that Cameron wants
1:28:52
and compliments the visuals perfectly.
1:28:55
And the main theme is one of the best and most recognizable out
1:28:58
there. Has that huge percussive,
1:28:59
industrial sounding beat to represent the kind of machine.
1:29:02
And then that melancholy electronic melody over the top
1:29:05
seems to represent humanity, I think.
1:29:07
I think it's clever, it's timeless, and I think Friedel
1:29:09
made a huge contribution to the success of the film and the
1:29:12
series. It's on every Terminator film.
1:29:14
Yeah, that main theme, it is so punched the air.
1:29:19
Amazing. It's just so emotional.
1:29:21
But it's like, that would be my walk on music if I was a fucking
1:29:25
boxer or something. But again, it's just got that
1:29:33
emotion and that sorrow to it. At the same time, if you listen
1:29:36
to the soundtrack by itself as you've been driving, it's an
1:29:39
incredible experience because you go so fast at some point and
1:29:43
you just go so slow at others. But he just has this great way
1:29:47
of ramping up the tension with this kind of synthesizer score.
1:29:50
It feels like the pop version of what Vengales did with Blade
1:29:53
Runner in 82, and it's so pulsating and it works all the
1:29:57
way through. When you've got the chase, it
1:30:02
just feels like, wow. And the other thing I will say
1:30:05
is that that constant beat that's like the Terminator's
1:30:10
heartbeat, and it's never, ever going to go out.
1:30:13
And you just think, this guy is hard.
1:30:14
It's just going to keep going. This guy is just a relentless
1:30:17
machine and I get that from the soundtrack and it all mixes
1:30:19
together beautifully. Originally, however, the first
1:30:22
person that wanted to write the score was Tony Banks and he was
1:30:26
the keyboard player and chief songwriter in Genesis.
1:30:29
But he said no because he was working on a film called Lorca
1:30:32
and the Outlaws. Did he end up doing Terminator
1:30:34
Genesis? That's.
1:30:38
Where they got the name from? But then Brad Fiedl's age and he
1:30:43
sent a tape into the producers, and when Cameron heard it, he
1:30:45
thought it was exactly the kind of sound he wanted for The
1:30:47
Terminator. Nice.
1:30:49
Yeah, I've seen Locker in the Outlaws.
1:30:51
All right, see, you're the one. It's one of those like 1980s
1:30:55
Star Wars knockoffs. It's really bad.
1:30:58
All right, OK. I've never heard of it to be
1:31:00
honest. But Fidel said that when Cameron
1:31:01
described the term they had to him, he thought, there's no way
1:31:04
you're getting all that on the screen for this budget.
1:31:06
And then when he saw the first quote, he said he couldn't
1:31:08
believe it because it was all there like Cameron described.
1:31:11
And he was like, I've never worked with anyone on that level
1:31:13
before. Fetal work in his garage at the
1:31:16
time and recorded every single part of the Terminator score
1:31:19
himself live. So to come up with a metallic
1:31:22
clang sound, he hit the frying pan with a hammer like bottom
1:31:25
right. And because he's recording
1:31:28
equipment wasn't very good and made a distorted sound.
1:31:30
And that's what we hear in the film.
1:31:31
So, you know, again, it's just necessity.
1:31:35
Absolutely, yeah, He said that if his equipment had been
1:31:38
better, it would have just sounded like a frying pan.
1:31:40
Tom and Jerry sound effects. And.
1:31:47
Fetal wanted the film's audio to be recorded stereo, but because
1:31:50
of the budget, Hemdale had already paid for the sound
1:31:53
effects to be done in mono and refused to let Cameron reshoot
1:31:56
them in stereo. So Fetal had to record in mono a
1:31:59
lot. Since then, stereo versions have
1:32:01
been released. Yeah, Cameron said.
1:32:04
Do you want to know why the Terminator was in mono?
1:32:06
Hemdale was too cheap. Here's your answer.
1:32:11
Slams everybody doesn't. He's amazing.
1:32:14
It's not my fault. I'm great.
1:32:15
It's your fault. You're shit.
1:32:17
That's Cameron's view and everything.
1:32:19
Yeah. North has recognition for Brad
1:32:21
Fiedl on The Terminator. Again, in retrospect that year,
1:32:25
the nominees included Randy Newman for The Natural and Alex
1:32:28
N for Under the Volcano. Right.
1:32:30
Remember those scores? No.
1:32:32
No. Put with Brad Fiedl on the
1:32:34
Terminator. Sounds like we agree.
1:32:36
Irreplaceable score for us. Yeah, definitely.
1:32:39
Oh yeah. It's the natural that would have
1:32:42
been. It a first time JC collaboration
1:32:48
on the music. It was a seam across the visuals
1:32:50
on the film. And that's where we're headed
1:32:51
now as we talk. Adam Greenberg as a director of
1:32:54
photography as well as the Stan Winston Studio and Fantasy 2
1:32:57
film effects who provided most of the special effects work.
1:33:00
Yeah, Westie, Adam Greenberg for you.
1:33:03
How does the Terminator look? Yeah, I think with the extension
1:33:06
of the director's vision, he's one of the best to do it,
1:33:09
especially the first vision that he's got because he sets up
1:33:12
Cameron's whole career, like we've said.
1:33:14
I mean, it looks like LV426 in places he might not do
1:33:17
Terminator 2, which kind of set the the basis for True Lies and
1:33:20
set the basis for Titanic, this big kind of epic sweep.
1:33:24
But again, Cameron knows what he wants and I think Greenberg just
1:33:28
delivers that and there's nothing you can say, oh, this is
1:33:30
an Adam Greenberg film. Because I think at the time, DPS
1:33:34
weren't renowned for putting their stamp on it.
1:33:35
They couldn't do that. It's what the director wants to
1:33:37
see. And I think this is exactly what
1:33:39
Cameron wants to see and to be Adam Greenberg at this point.
1:33:43
And to work with a guy like that, even if I'd seen them
1:33:45
drones, I would be incredibly worried.
1:33:48
Can I make this work? Can it look as good as what's in
1:33:51
his head? Because what's in his head is
1:33:52
fucking flawless. I think it really, really works.
1:33:55
I think when it's practical effects and the way it's lit and
1:33:57
especially the fixing themselves scene and like the day lit
1:34:01
scenes are just really, really nice.
1:34:02
It doesn't look of the time, it looks like a flashback.
1:34:06
I think it's just really cleverly done.
1:34:08
And the way he mixes in the handheld, the way he mixes in
1:34:10
the wide angle stuff, the way he mixes in the point of view, I
1:34:14
think he just does it quite seamlessly.
1:34:15
And it it looks like somebody who can who's really got a hold
1:34:18
of the craft and it's just saying James Cameron can throw
1:34:21
anything at this guy and he delivers as you can see on the
1:34:23
screen. He definitely, definitely did.
1:34:25
I think it's a great piece of work.
1:34:27
Yeah, he'd worked on quite a few kind of field productions at the
1:34:29
time. Adam Greenberg, yeah, I guess
1:34:31
was a factor in him getting hired.
1:34:32
He was used to low budget, but that doesn't show at times.
1:34:36
It does feel like a shot, like a slasher, like Halloween.
1:34:38
Like we've said, the science fiction there as well.
1:34:41
I think there's a clear blade when I influence.
1:34:43
Yeah, definitely dark, gritty visuals.
1:34:45
And I like how Greenberg manages to make not just 2029, but 1984
1:34:49
Los Angeles also look like a disturbing future.
1:34:52
Yeah, it does look like a future, Yeah.
1:34:53
I'm surprised we could tell the difference when he came back.
1:34:56
Just the smell be different. But cinematography wise, lots of
1:35:01
low angles, lots of tracking shots like we talked about.
1:35:03
But there are some great static shots as well.
1:35:05
The scene that we talked about in 2029 when the Terminator
1:35:08
burst into the compound, there's a shot where we see Frank
1:35:11
Columbo as a Terminator, like silhouetted against the
1:35:13
background, and you've got these like burning red eyes.
1:35:16
Great shot, that. Yeah, and the gun's just going
1:35:18
off. Yeah, brilliant, brilliant.
1:35:21
I said that the script's exciting decades later, and I
1:35:24
think the way it looks is as well.
1:35:25
Great work from Adam Greenberg, I think.
1:35:27
Yeah, fantastic. You really buy it, Absolutely,
1:35:29
definitely. Cameron said he always wanted
1:35:31
most of the film to be shot at night, and Greenberg said he
1:35:34
took inspiration from classic film noir from the 40s, like
1:35:37
dumbling Demnity in The Third Man, which I think you can see
1:35:40
in some scenes. Yeah, I think you can.
1:35:42
It's got that strong kind of contrasting look like those like
1:35:45
classic film noir has. So I don't wish we shoot this at
1:35:47
the back alley. Yeah, exactly.
1:35:52
New Orson Welles? Yeah.
1:35:55
Yeah, and I want top of the visual effects because, yeah,
1:35:58
we've talked about the eye surgery bit and that's not
1:36:00
great. But the rest of it, I think it's
1:36:02
just pretty much flawless, particularly again, considering
1:36:05
the budget. And Cameron has so much
1:36:07
confidence in how good these effects look because he opens
1:36:10
the film with them. The ruined LA, the ship flying
1:36:13
overhead straight away. You know, this is going to look
1:36:15
incredible if that's your opening shot and that's how
1:36:18
confident you are in them. And the so effect of those bits,
1:36:21
I always think they're in the film and more than you actually
1:36:23
are. And it's probably only maybe a
1:36:25
minute, a minute or two at most, but they'll lodge themselves in
1:36:28
the memory because of that. Good.
1:36:29
And then you get to the end and you realize you're going to see
1:36:31
the Terminator with the skin burned off.
1:36:33
You're just saying this. It better not disappoint.
1:36:36
And it doesn't. It still looks great and it
1:36:39
still looks terrifying. Yeah.
1:36:41
I think through today's eyes, some of the effects might not
1:36:43
hold up great like we've talked about.
1:36:45
But I think when you take into consideration the limitations of
1:36:48
the time and the budget, I think it's still really impressive.
1:36:51
The Terminator, when it's a skeleton is amazing when it's
1:36:54
static, but when it moves, there's issues.
1:36:56
Yeah, it's very Harry housing, isn't it?
1:36:58
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's some motion stuff
1:36:59
is, yeah, yeah. But when it's standing still and
1:37:01
it's looking around, you're like, fucking hell, I'm out of
1:37:04
here. Yeah, absolutely.
1:37:06
Yeah, Well, finally tuted the miniatures and Stan Winston
1:37:08
Studio did the makeup and the endoskeleton.
1:37:10
We'll talk about that a bit more later, but I love what both
1:37:13
studios bring. Yeah.
1:37:14
And it's Cameron pulling it all together.
1:37:15
I mean, his background at the time and mostly being in special
1:37:18
effects, and that definitely shows.
1:37:20
He clearly understands that space inside out and knows how
1:37:23
to produce great work for not much money from his time and
1:37:25
places like New the World. Yeah.
1:37:27
I'm not sure there's another major director anywhere who
1:37:29
could have produced effects at this level with this budget.
1:37:32
No, For my money, probably the best director ever working with
1:37:35
special effects, James Cameron and the Terminator is one of the
1:37:37
best examples of how good he is, I think.
1:37:39
Yeah. I think by pushing the effects
1:37:41
and from working in them, absolutely.
1:37:43
Cameron wants you to know that that's a special effect, but you
1:37:46
can't tell how I've done it. I think that's his stance on it,
1:37:49
yeah. Yeah, you know, it's a special
1:37:51
effect. It's because it's impossible
1:37:52
what you're looking. At exactly.
1:37:53
Yeah, someone who worked with Gene Warren when he was at New
1:37:57
World, which is why Fantasy Two were hired to handle the
1:37:59
miniature and stop motion for the makeup and practical
1:38:02
effects. He initially wanted Rob Boutine.
1:38:04
I mean, who fucking wouldn't? Who'd also been at New World,
1:38:07
but he was unavailable, and Gaylan Heard said that the
1:38:09
studio told him they had only green lit the film that they got
1:38:12
Dick Smith, who put on The Exorcist and The Godfather do
1:38:15
the makeup. Yeah, Orion were working on
1:38:17
Amadeus at the time, which Dick Smith did the prosthetic makeup
1:38:20
for, so I guess that's why they wanted him.
1:38:22
Yeah. Do you want to talk about that
1:38:23
for about 3 hours, John? Let's.
1:38:26
Go from the start, opening the scene.
1:38:29
The director, yeah, by the way, when Smith read the script, he
1:38:33
said this is absolutely mental. I'm not the guy you want, but I
1:38:37
know who is, I think. Yeah, and Stan Winston, he had
1:38:40
recently created the Tin Man in The Wiz, made the robot faces
1:38:44
and heart beeps, and worked on the video for Mr. Roboto by the
1:38:47
rock band Sticks, and Smith recommended him to Cameron as
1:38:50
the guy to make the Terminator. Do you remember Mr. Roboto?
1:38:54
I don't want to be honest. Styx is not really my genre.
1:38:57
Apologies to Styx in there, I'm sure Allegiance are fans, but it
1:39:00
is ludicrously awful. OK, I'm going to watch.
1:39:03
It as soon as we finish there. I'm a big fan of Styx to be
1:39:06
fair. I thought you might be, yeah.
1:39:09
That's why I was really quiet there for a bit.
1:39:11
I was OK. It is awful, but it's fucking so
1:39:13
good. It's bad.
1:39:14
But yeah, Winston said. I was the guy who did the
1:39:16
robots, and Cameron said the special effects scenes were so
1:39:18
expensive that the studio told him if he shot one second of
1:39:21
footage more than they'd agreed to, that shut down the whole
1:39:24
production one second. One second to me isn't that.
1:39:29
No author's recognition for any of the visuals in The
1:39:31
Terminator, which for the effects team seems a bit mad.
1:39:34
I think Kate has had a guess who won the Best Visual Effects
1:39:37
Oscar that year. 84. It'll be 85, won't it?
1:39:41
Temple of Doom. Brilliant.
1:39:43
It was ILM for Indiana Jones in the Temple of Doom.
1:39:45
Matt, you never cease to amaze me with this wonderful.
1:39:50
Great work I no doubt, but for us, great effects work on the
1:39:53
Terminator too. Yeah, incredible 98% there,
1:39:56
yeah. So Cameron ruling with an iron
1:40:00
fist as ever, and in writing the film and then working with names
1:40:03
like those we just mentioned. Brad Fiedle, Adam Greenberg,
1:40:06
Stan Winston. Fantasy 2 Sticks, Some great
1:40:09
collaborations on The Terminator.
1:40:11
Looks great, sounds great, brilliant.
1:40:13
Sticks in there. The end.
1:40:21
The final act of The Terminator sees everything come together.
1:40:24
The climactic showdown between Sarah Reese and The Terminator
1:40:27
will be discussed, obviously, but before that we're heading to
1:40:30
the Tiki Motel I. Thought you could have said
1:40:33
before that there's another climax.
1:40:38
So, having escaped Arnold Clutter to the police station,
1:40:40
Sarah and Reese head for the Tiki Motel, Room 9 to be
1:40:43
precise. Whilst there they make some pipe
1:40:46
bombs, conceive the future savior of mankind as you do, and
1:40:50
end up fleeing again when Arnold shows up again.
1:40:53
Yeah, Reese, the old dog mask. What are your thoughts?
1:40:57
Oh boy, here. We go strap yourselves in, guys.
1:41:00
Yeah, here we go. Already mentioned how terrible
1:41:03
the Martin Ginger sex scene is, but at least that was brief.
1:41:07
This one of the recent Sarah like have to ask like was James
1:41:10
Cameron still a virgin when he made this?
1:41:12
Because it's a kind of sexy and only a virgin would ride.
1:41:16
It's like how they think sex happens.
1:41:18
It's not quite like that, Jim. It's very possible and.
1:41:23
The shame of it is I do buy into their relationship at this
1:41:26
point. I think Bean and Humble and a
1:41:27
very convincing together as a couple.
1:41:29
They've got chemistry. We've mentioned the line, but
1:41:31
when Reese says he loves Sam, he came across time for her 100%.
1:41:35
By that I'm totally into it. So the concept is fine, but it's
1:41:37
the execution that lets down because it's pretty terrible.
1:41:40
I think it's the only bit of music I don't like where it goes
1:41:43
into the dreamy romantic piano bit.
1:41:46
The facial expressions are terrible.
1:41:48
Sarah looks like she's straining on the toilet at one point.
1:41:52
And then to end on that slow more fade out of the two hands
1:41:55
clenching together on the sheet. For an undeniably brilliant
1:41:59
film, you can't get away with how awful this scene is.
1:42:01
Like a dreaded coming up and it takes me out the film every
1:42:04
single time. Yeah, I'll tell you what reaches
1:42:07
Homeless Pants Must Week by now absolutely stink.
1:42:10
Could have just put them in the shower a little bit at least.
1:42:13
Come on. Later on Really Thick, I came
1:42:15
across Time for you Sarah, I love you and it works an
1:42:18
absolute treat. It does line and sinker for
1:42:20
Connor. But who wouldn't fall for that?
1:42:22
I know it is a great. Line.
1:42:23
Yeah, it's a great line. But my pickup problem is, what
1:42:27
is Sarah thinking calling him with her amateur that.
1:42:30
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Although that shot when we're in
1:42:32
Sarah's mothers and it's just like carnage in the background,
1:42:35
That's a scariest shot in the film for me.
1:42:37
And it pans to Arnold on the phone talking in a mother's
1:42:39
voice. Really good, that brilliant.
1:42:41
And there's a tiny moment just after that.
1:42:43
It always stands out for me. After they've done the wild
1:42:45
thing, Sarah goes think fast and pretend to throw a bag at Reese,
1:42:49
and Reese smiles. It's the first time you smiled
1:42:51
in the entire film. Yeah.
1:42:53
And then like, instantly we had the dog barking outside.
1:42:55
Brilliant. Just not allowed happiness,
1:42:57
yeah. Yeah, exactly.
1:42:58
Yeah, we've mentioned the music there.
1:43:00
Obviously Matt said he doesn't like it and nor do I, but check
1:43:03
this out. Brad Fiedl said that when
1:43:05
Cameron did his first cut of the film with temp music, he scored
1:43:09
the sex scene with big rock. Track probably sticks.
1:43:15
You're going to ask for the whole cup without music, so you
1:43:17
come up with these own pieces without being influenced by
1:43:20
Cameron's choices. I don't want to say either,
1:43:23
actually. I don't want to see the scene.
1:43:24
I don't think it should exist and I don't know what rock track
1:43:27
would be in there. No idea, feel like making love
1:43:30
by bad company? Very possibly Cherry Pie by
1:43:33
Warren. Well, the music in this scene is
1:43:38
like the main theme were played on piano, isn't it?
1:43:40
Yeah, just slow it down. It's just a bit too.
1:43:42
Yeah, it's too on the nose of me.
1:43:44
And there was a deleted scene. He was, well, originally after
1:43:47
Sarah called his mother, which we mentioned, she looked up
1:43:50
Cyberdyne Systems in the phone book and wanted to go and blow
1:43:52
it up. Rhys, however, in this scene
1:43:54
said it wasn't a good idea and he ends up breaking down in
1:43:57
tears. And Michael Bean said he was
1:43:58
always disappointed because that was his most powerful scene.
1:44:02
That he was Imagine how much you've been going for it being
1:44:06
100 and. 10% on that one. Yeah, too, right.
1:44:09
But the idea does come back for T2, doesn't it, when Sarah goes
1:44:12
off to kill Miles Dyson, one of the guys who developed Skynet.
1:44:15
Yeah. And then we're back on.
1:44:16
We're back to this relentless pace, Yeah, this big moment.
1:44:20
And there's some great moments since.
1:44:22
I love the homemade bombs. I think they're great.
1:44:25
The music is just so pounding and it just drives the scene
1:44:29
along. And this is where we mentioned
1:44:31
Mad Max earlier on. This feels very Mad Max to me
1:44:33
because I know they were shot like at normal pace, but it's
1:44:36
speed up just to make it look faster.
1:44:38
And all the car chases were kind of speed up.
1:44:39
It feels like that, but then you know he's hit by the truck and
1:44:43
you think, well, that's it, it's over.
1:44:45
He's been hit by a fucking articulated truck, but he still
1:44:49
gets up. And does he have to get in the
1:44:51
truck? Because he does just walk over
1:44:53
and just crush the skulls and go there.
1:44:55
It is done. But now he's got to go and walk
1:44:57
over, get in the truck, get out. I think that's the best look of
1:45:00
the Terminator I've seen out of all of the series.
1:45:03
When he turns around, half his face is gone.
1:45:05
He did the exorcist Dick Smith, Like I thought that was him
1:45:08
because it looks very much like Reagan's makeup.
1:45:10
It looks very Exorcist inspired. But I think Reese is just at the
1:45:14
point now where he's losing track of what's actually going
1:45:18
on with his mission because he's like, well, I'm just going to
1:45:20
blow the truck up. I'm not going to cut the fuse or
1:45:22
anything. It's going to take fucking ages.
1:45:25
And I'm going to put it in the exhaust and I'm going to get in
1:45:27
the bin. And he comes back and he's kind
1:45:30
of walking through the flames. He's like Sarah, curious.
1:45:33
We did it. And that fucking metal lifts.
1:45:37
It's just that that crank of metal.
1:45:40
And this thing stands up. It's just unrelenting as a final
1:45:44
sequence. Fantastic stuff.
1:45:46
It really is. I think the chase is excellent,
1:45:49
really well directed, really well edited.
1:45:51
Mark Goldblatt splices in some like single wide frames to
1:45:54
accentuate the pipe bombs exploding.
1:45:56
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is really good then.
1:45:58
Really loved you. I did the same thing in editing
1:46:00
Aliens. So Karen must have passed that
1:46:01
tip along, I assume. All right.
1:46:03
I mean, Arnold just commandeering that tanker truck
1:46:06
is great, but it's the visuals for me.
1:46:08
How good is the make up work on Arnold when half space is
1:46:12
missing? Stan Winston magic that it is.
1:46:14
And then after the truck explosion, when Sarah and Reese
1:46:16
are hugging, they think they've warned and we'll get that
1:46:18
awesome shot of the endorse skeleton rising up behind them.
1:46:21
Yeah, brilliant. Love that.
1:46:22
Only bad thing is it's the end of Arnold in the film.
1:46:25
He's still there in spirit, like when someone leaves a party and
1:46:27
you go, oh, I can't believe he's gone.
1:46:29
You're like, has he? It's still feel like he's
1:46:31
resonating around the room. And you did all right though,
1:46:33
didn't he, Arnold? Oh amazingly well and the
1:46:36
effects were to create the truck explored and that was handled by
1:46:39
fantasy 2. Cameron originally wanted to
1:46:41
blow up. He originally wanted to blow up
1:46:43
a real tanker truck, but but they were filming close to a
1:46:46
police armories couldn't. I'd love to be the person who
1:46:49
had to tell Cameron that he was like Jim.
1:46:53
Seriously, we're next to lots of explosives.
1:46:55
Don't care when it blown up. He died in 1984.
1:46:57
That guy. It's a fancy 2 then created an 8
1:47:03
foot long miniature of the truck and rigged it with 42 explosives
1:47:06
and they were detonated in sequence which is why the truck
1:47:09
explodes from the back to the front.
1:47:12
Right, OK. Yeah.
1:47:13
And then they use rear projection to place the image of
1:47:15
the truck exploding behind Linda Hamilton.
1:47:17
I mean, you can tell, but it still looks good that for me.
1:47:19
That still looks great. Does it, it's all right.
1:47:23
I mean, thinking of the budget you had in this, that's.
1:47:24
What I mean, yeah, it looks a little budget, but it looks
1:47:26
really good little budget. Yeah, he does everything he
1:47:28
needs to do with what he's got. Yeah, you can't argue with it.
1:47:31
Exactly. And when Cameron submitted the
1:47:33
first cut of the film, it didn't include the climax in the
1:47:35
factory yet. And John Daly from Hemdale told
1:47:38
Cameron he wanted to end the movie after the truck explosion
1:47:41
to make it a happier ending without restying.
1:47:43
Cameron said. I told him straight, fuck you.
1:47:46
The film isn't over yet. Yeah, apparently you said you'll
1:47:51
have to kill me and walked out and it was too late to fire him,
1:47:55
although surely would have. You wanted them to end the movie
1:47:58
after the truck explosion. That's it.
1:48:00
Fine, just end it there. Fuck off.
1:48:01
I know, no endoskeleton crazy. So that's it for unfortunately,
1:48:06
but the Terminator, the film and the machine, it's not done just
1:48:09
yet. Not just yet.
1:48:11
Let's turn it into a slasher. The climax of The Terminator is
1:48:16
one of the most well known out there.
1:48:18
Chased into a machine filled faculty of industry, Sarah and
1:48:21
Reese have won last face off with the Terminator.
1:48:24
Reese blows the endoskeleton in half, tragically sacrificing
1:48:27
himself in the process, before Sarah finishes the job, crushing
1:48:30
the machine in a hydraulic press.
1:48:32
It's terminated Rusty. How does it all play out?
1:48:35
It plays out well. It's good this bit, but I just
1:48:38
feel like it's a little bit kind of tacked on the effects of data
1:48:42
here, which pulls us out a little bit.
1:48:44
If I showed this to somebody now, if I showed this to me,
1:48:47
daughter was 13, I should, I think should be into it up to
1:48:50
this point. They go, oh, well, that doesn't
1:48:52
look real then. Is that supposed to be scary
1:48:54
now? Once Arnold's gone, it doesn't
1:48:56
have the same impact, I think, for an audience now then it
1:48:59
would have back then. I think it really has dated and
1:49:01
that's where it kind of pulls you out a little bit, but the
1:49:04
bits where it's not them stop motion pieces are fucking
1:49:07
excellent. Make the close up of the foot
1:49:08
dragon really works. It looks amazing.
1:49:11
You should have just kept it as close-ups.
1:49:12
I love the Archaea for Sarah, how she kind of takes over, but
1:49:16
the bomb goes off loads quicker when Reese's next to the
1:49:19
Terminator than it does for the truck.
1:49:21
It just seems a little bit like taking liberties from it.
1:49:24
I think it's because we've just seen it so many times.
1:49:26
There's some wonderful horror movie tropes in here, but the
1:49:29
thing I always think at the end of this, you know, which is
1:49:31
reaching round for the controls. I would have a cool life and
1:49:35
just be like you're terminated fucker, But I always think if
1:49:37
that was me in that situation and nobody was around, I'd be
1:49:40
like you terminated fucker and I'd hit the wrong button.
1:49:42
I'd be like you terminated prick.
1:49:44
You're fucking dead now, asshole.
1:49:47
It is a good sequence, but for me it's just a bit painful
1:49:51
scene. Reach out to there and it's just
1:49:53
you know, it's it's a little bit of a an anti climax, I guess,
1:49:56
from what you've already seen, but it brilliantly done because
1:49:59
he just he knows it's going to be a franchise and he has to end
1:50:02
it on a note where you think I want to see more of this.
1:50:04
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a great way to finish industrial
1:50:07
setting ties into the technological theme of the
1:50:09
movie. Sarah's are completes where
1:50:11
she's calling the shots now that we talked about.
1:50:13
And then I've been seeing how technology works against the
1:50:15
humans all the way through the film.
1:50:16
But here Sarah uses technology when she crushes the Terminator
1:50:20
in the press, kind of symbolic of her change, which is nicely
1:50:22
done. And being does it as well to
1:50:24
distract the Terminator from where they are, so we can't
1:50:26
track them and it's the machines against the machines.
1:50:29
Heartbreak at the rescores, but narratively it had to happen I
1:50:31
think. Has to end with Sarah alone
1:50:33
reading machine, surely? Yeah.
1:50:35
And I like our Cameron taps into a couple of horror drops.
1:50:37
Like the first, the idea of the monster sort of morphing to
1:50:40
become something else in the climax, in this case the
1:50:42
endoskeleton, and then the way the endoskeleton behaves like
1:50:45
some sort of silent stalker, like Michael Myers or something.
1:50:49
Although presumably if the Terminator did talk, yeah, it
1:50:52
would still have Arnold's voice, wouldn't it?
1:50:54
Yeah, it should have. Yeah, that would have been
1:50:56
great. We stick from that pipe, the
1:50:57
endoskeleton goes. Don't make me bust you up, man.
1:51:03
Behind you on that? Definitely.
1:51:06
I mean, after all the huge spectacle, the end gets smaller
1:51:09
and smaller until it's say, around the chimney.
1:51:10
I just crawling around the floor.
1:51:12
I think it's a fantastic way to finish.
1:51:14
I love it. Every pipe hit on the face you
1:51:16
could have just like said one of the lines.
1:51:18
Uzi 9 millimetre. Fuck you asshole, It's nice for
1:51:23
a walk. So he's winning.
1:51:25
He's fucking it up. Yeah, there's certainly bits and
1:51:27
pieces of this that don't work. The stop motion isn't brilliant.
1:51:32
Some of the close-ups of the Terminator kind of disguise, the
1:51:34
fact that it wasn't actually very mobile, the model that
1:51:37
we're working with. But the important thing is I
1:51:39
don't really care because I'm just so into it and so
1:51:42
captivated by what's going on at this point.
1:51:44
Just the fact that is still coming and coming and coming
1:51:47
after them, that's terrifying. And what's really effective is
1:51:50
just how Paula, Sarah, and we saw the views of most of the
1:51:52
dynamite. Reese is just hobbling along at
1:51:55
this point. And I do really like how the
1:51:57
switch on the mechanics, I think that's cleverly written because
1:52:00
it sets up the ending. You need a reason for them to
1:52:02
switch the machinery on. So him saying it'll confuse the
1:52:05
movements, that's really clever. Yeah, it is good.
1:52:07
And it does pack a lot in. Reese gets the heroic last
1:52:09
stand, then Sarah legs are fucked and even handed, still
1:52:13
not dead and it still keeps coming after.
1:52:14
And it's just such as you've been seeing such a satisfying
1:52:17
character rock for Sarah. The guy who's come to a rescue
1:52:20
so often is dead, so it has to be her now to save herself and
1:52:23
nothing it does absolutely stick that landing for her.
1:52:26
And then one little fact, that body bag that Reese has put in
1:52:29
after the factory sequence, that was actually James Cameron's
1:52:31
suit bag. Yes, it was.
1:52:34
I'm surprised Cameron had a suit bag.
1:52:35
Sounds like we were down the out at the time.
1:52:37
Yeah. I think he's got a body bag that
1:52:39
he just puts everyone instead of his.
1:52:42
Yeah, crew members. Yeah, anyone who just answers
1:52:45
back, you go. You want to go in the fucking
1:52:46
body bag? I think it's a nice touch as
1:52:48
well that they give the endoskeleton A limp so it ties
1:52:51
back to Arnold, so you can still see that it's the same
1:52:53
character. Yeah.
1:52:54
The creation of the endoskeleton was very collaborative.
1:52:57
Cameron designed what it looked like after.
1:52:59
He'd not been happy with some of the designs that Stan Winston
1:53:01
did. The stop motion and the rear
1:53:03
projection scenes where the Terminator walks down the
1:53:05
corridor were done by Fantasy 2, and the full size endoskeleton
1:53:09
and torso version were created by the Stan Winston Studio,
1:53:12
which had 1000 moving parts and took them a year to build.
1:53:16
Yeah, at first, apparently, Cameron was planning on having
1:53:18
someone in a robot suit, which sounds really bad.
1:53:22
Anthony Daniels in there. Three people emerged from the
1:53:26
fire. Awful.
1:53:27
That would be awful. Oh fuck you asshole.
1:53:34
But then Cameron was going to you stop motion for the whole
1:53:36
thing. And it was Winston who suggested
1:53:38
that they built animatronics, thankfully, Yeah.
1:53:40
So they had a full size endoskeleton, one that was just
1:53:43
a torso for when it crawls, one that was just the top off that a
1:53:46
property I would carry around on his shoulders.
1:53:48
That's why the endoskeleton's shot from the waist up, because
1:53:50
the property I just below the screen.
1:53:51
Right, OK. Which is pretty cool.
1:53:53
Yeah, nice. And then the hot arms and legs
1:53:54
create for you. Insert shots like the close-ups
1:53:56
where it's walking up the stairs and stuff like that, Right.
1:53:59
I think it all looks great. The endoskeleton stuff.
1:54:01
I love it. The endoskeleton stuff when it's
1:54:02
close up looks great. It's just a stop motion takes me
1:54:05
out a little bit. The design of it, like the look
1:54:07
of it, it's still like so iconic, everything Cameron's
1:54:11
directed, like everything from aliens, that even the drop ship
1:54:13
looks like it's from this universe.
1:54:15
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it does tie together.
1:54:18
Yeah, yeah. And the shots on the gangway
1:54:20
when Reese is hitting the Terminator with a lead pipe,
1:54:23
that was filmed using this upper torso puppet we've been talking
1:54:26
about, and it was on the shoulders of Tom Woodruff.
1:54:28
He was on the special effects scene and he hurt his hand
1:54:31
pretty badly when they did that scene.
1:54:33
Right? Typical Cameron.
1:54:36
He said he received a Christmas card from Cameron that Yeah.
1:54:39
Which read Merry Christmas. Hope the feeling comes back to
1:54:41
your fingers someday. Someday.
1:54:46
Showed some consideration, at least I.
1:54:49
Bet he was laughing what he wrote it though.
1:54:51
But there are times when we're cutting from motion capture to
1:54:53
an insert shot to the full animatronic, and it's all pretty
1:54:56
seamless in terms of how it flows.
1:54:58
Yeah, it must have been planted storyboard, like meticulously
1:55:00
beforehand. Yeah, unless you just got like a
1:55:02
mountain of coverage or something.
1:55:03
I don't know. I don't think so.
1:55:05
I think he had that year at storyboarded, didn't he?
1:55:07
I think he would have done it down to the tee.
1:55:08
Yeah. When they were filming they
1:55:10
realized none of the endoskeleton models that the
1:55:11
hard was suitable to film the close up shot of the press
1:55:14
crushing the Terminator school. So Winston made a face model out
1:55:17
of foam core and tin foil and the smoke they see was just some
1:55:21
of the crew members off screen blowing cigarette smoke into the
1:55:24
frame. Massive.
1:55:25
Yeah, so an idiot with Winston, he said that Cameron was, like,
1:55:28
amazing. When the film died, he basically
1:55:29
told everyone what to do and how to do it because they were kind
1:55:32
of stuck, right. And it is a great moment when
1:55:34
the red eye, like, flickers out. Brilliant.
1:55:36
Yeah. Yeah.
1:55:38
And with the Terminator gone, we head into the den.
1:55:40
You more. I do love a deny more.
1:55:42
Do you love a deny more now that I know what it is?
1:55:48
We get one final sequence as Sarah heads to Mexico.
1:55:51
So how does that work to finish off?
1:55:52
Brilliantly, and not just because of how foreboding it
1:55:55
still is, but because of the way it ties up all of the loose
1:55:58
ends. You've got Arkia, that's who
1:56:00
John's father is. And one nice touch that doesn't
1:56:03
get remarked upon that much is the fact that Sarah's got a dog
1:56:06
because she's clearly so worried about other Terminators coming
1:56:09
after her. She's got the dog to help
1:56:11
identify them. Love that.
1:56:12
Yeah. So it's really ballsy, I think
1:56:15
by Cameron to on one entire ball, the loose ends, but also
1:56:18
ended like this where he's basically gone.
1:56:21
Yeah, I finished this story, but there's more to come.
1:56:23
Yeah, it's not this German Shepherd.
1:56:25
That's the same as the resistance of God.
1:56:26
It's the same dog that when the Terminator comes in.
1:56:29
Yeah, same dog. Yeah.
1:56:30
Yeah, it's the same breed. Nice.
1:56:31
Which is a great touch. But yeah, he does.
1:56:33
He says. There's more to come.
1:56:34
And you just want so much more from this story at the end.
1:56:38
It's brilliant. Yeah, we see how that photograph
1:56:40
we've had of Sarah was taken as well, which is a good touch.
1:56:43
Yeah. And earlier we see it.
1:56:44
I always wondered what you were thinking about when I looked at
1:56:46
that picture. And going from Sarah's voice
1:56:48
over at the time, it was Reese she was thinking about.
1:56:50
Yeah. And I love the final shot as
1:56:53
Sarah drives into the distance. It's like a Mac painting of the
1:56:55
mountains. Yeah.
1:56:56
Great art. And the score ramps up there
1:56:58
just in time, Yeah. Yeah, it's a great way to end.
1:57:00
The final shot was taken after main production had wrapped.
1:57:03
Linda Hamilton wasn't there, so GAIL and Herd's assistant Polly
1:57:06
stood in for her and the dog was Herd's mother's.
1:57:10
Yeah, not a robot dog. Unfortunately, because they
1:57:14
didn't have permission to shoot the final shot in the desert, so
1:57:17
it was a small gorilla film making, Heard said.
1:57:19
They were setting up all day and not one car came by and they
1:57:22
thought they were just cleaving easy to do it.
1:57:24
But then as soon as they're ready, a police car pulled up
1:57:26
and said they had to leave. Gene Warren said they were
1:57:29
helping his son shoot a student film.
1:57:31
And the policeman just believe them and let them do it.
1:57:33
Nice. There was another problem with
1:57:36
the kid, you know. The little Mexican fellow takes
1:57:38
the photo of Sarah. Oh yeah.
1:57:40
So the actor Anthony Prigilio, he's called, He couldn't do his
1:57:43
lines well enough without to replace him for the close-ups
1:57:45
with another actor called Philip Gordon.
1:57:47
The problem was they couldn't find the same T-shirt that Prigi
1:57:50
would have been wearing anywhere.
1:57:51
So Herd went to the family, asked to buy the shirts and they
1:57:54
said no, it's going to be kicked out.
1:57:58
So if you look, when it cuts from the wide shot of the close
1:58:00
up, the boys T-shirt changes. And that's why.
1:58:02
Oh. Right.
1:58:04
Interesting. OK.
1:58:06
And there was a scene written in film for the end of the movie,
1:58:08
which was later cut. Originally we'd be in the
1:58:10
factory and two workers would come in and come across a
1:58:14
strange trip on the floor. Something leftover from the
1:58:16
Terminator will cut to the outside of the building.
1:58:18
And the same would say Cyberdyne Systems.
1:58:22
Yeah, another time paradox there would have been good, but
1:58:25
according to her, the reason it was caught was because the
1:58:27
actors in the scene weren't actors.
1:58:29
They were financiers who Hemdale promised to return their
1:58:31
investment to, and that's how they paid them the money back,
1:58:34
by having them in the film. And then Cameron just cut them
1:58:36
out. Fuck off now, the film's
1:58:39
finished. So finished yet?
1:58:42
Motherfucker, it is now. And with that, the credits roll,
1:58:46
including Holly Ellison's, which I imagine infuriates coming
1:58:49
every time you say that. Yeah.
1:58:50
The parasite. But what doesn't infuriate
1:58:53
Cameron? Every time you see some looks in
1:58:55
the mirror, he wants to punch it.
1:58:57
But as a finale, A tragic end for Reese, a hero's arc for
1:59:01
Sarah on the destruction of the machine.
1:59:03
All in all, a pretty satisfying climax.
1:59:06
Oh yeah, huge. It rounded off really nicely.
1:59:12
Reception and awards. So we've told the story that the
1:59:17
film tells. We're not quite done with the
1:59:19
story of how it was made though, as we get into the release of
1:59:22
The Terminator. While the Matt in the film was
1:59:25
getting busted up by Arnold, our Matt has been busting some
1:59:28
numbers on how the Terminator did at the box office.
1:59:31
So take it away, Matt. OK, so final production budget
1:59:36
was $6.4 million and on that The Terminator grossed $78.3 million
1:59:41
worldwide. Huge return on investment for
1:59:44
Orion and Hemdale and it also dominated the science fiction
1:59:48
based Saturn awards that year where it won Best Film, Best
1:59:51
Writing, Best Makeup. All deserves, I think.
1:59:55
Yeah, definitely, absolutely. Orion were the distributors, but
1:59:58
more interested in promoting Amadeus.
2:00:00
Obviously we'll get on to that at some time.
2:00:03
So at the same time, and Cameron said that even after the first
2:00:07
week of release, when The Terminator was #1 at the box
2:00:09
office, Orion still didn't change their marketing plan,
2:00:12
meaning all advertising for the film was pulled, which is
2:00:15
heartbreaking. Cameron would have been livid.
2:00:17
I mean, surely if you've got an unexpected hit, you've got to
2:00:20
change the marketing plan, surely.
2:00:22
Going to the Orion offices like the Terminator and the police
2:00:24
station. Just busting everyone.
2:00:26
Just wipe when everyone. Exactly and the.
2:00:29
Studio had so little confidence in the film being successful
2:00:33
that actually refused to screen it for critics at all, even
2:00:35
after Cameron protested. Of course he did.
2:00:38
But then Michael Bean's agent Ed Lamotta and Arnold's agent Lou
2:00:42
Pitt, they saw the film, they said it was brilliant and they
2:00:45
had to do critics screenings and at that point Irine agreed to 1
2:00:49
screening. 1 critic screening. One screening.
2:00:53
So in terms of other critics, then, big man on campus, Roger
2:00:56
Ebert first, but Roger only reviewed the term mid on his TV.
2:01:00
Sure that he did with Gene Siskel.
2:01:01
Yeah. So no score out of four, just a
2:01:03
thumbs down or a thumbs up. OK, So what did he go for do.
2:01:06
You think thumbs up? Sure.
2:01:07
Thumbs up, Surely, Cisco. Thumbs down.
2:01:10
It was a thumbs up from Rog. Of course it was.
2:01:12
And he said a cross between Dirty Harry and the Road Warrior
2:01:16
was It's the Killer from Halloween.
2:01:19
Yeah, I can see that, yeah. It's violent, it's bloody, it's
2:01:22
sadistic, but it's also well acted and directed.
2:01:25
I liked it. Imagine the Terminator and the
2:01:28
police station that I fired 347 shots around 346.
2:01:34
Janet Muslin of the New York Times called the Terminator AB
2:01:38
movie with flair. There is far too much dull
2:01:40
mayhem in the form of car chases, messy shootouts and Mr.
2:01:44
Schwarzenegger slamming brutally into anything that gets in his
2:01:46
way. Yeah, but they're all good
2:01:48
things, right? Yeah.
2:01:49
Well, that's. What we like, though?
2:01:52
Yeah, exactly. Arnold building and tag career
2:01:54
and slamming brutally anything that gets in his way.
2:01:56
Yeah, yeah, 2 right. So the camera.
2:01:59
Exactly. And in a retrospective review,
2:02:01
Empire magazine gave The Terminator the full 5 stars.
2:02:04
Course it did. Course it did, and said as
2:02:07
chillingly efficient in exacting thrills from its audience as its
2:02:10
titular character is in executing its targets.
2:02:13
Yeah, Hindsight is a five star review.
2:02:15
That's what that should change that to.
2:02:17
And then today on Rotten Tomatoes, it has an 89% approval
2:02:21
rating from audiences, and they're big old, 100% from
2:02:25
critics. And then on IMDb a very
2:02:28
impressive 8.1 out of 10. Massive.
2:02:32
I'm surprised the audience score isn't higher though.
2:02:34
Yeah, I would have thought so, yeah.
2:02:35
Yeah, I would have thought so as well.
2:02:36
But then again, I think it's the effects will take you out a
2:02:38
little bit now. Yeah, it could be.
2:02:40
That might have gone down, but critics are like what?
2:02:42
They know how important the film is.
2:02:43
Yeah, yeah. So The Terminator did do very
2:02:46
well on its release, a huge return for the studios, popular
2:02:49
with the critics and with audiences, and if anything,
2:02:52
thought of possibly even more highly today.
2:02:54
I think so. Yeah, very possibly, yeah.
2:02:59
Sequels and influence as. I'm sure everyone knows after
2:03:04
the success of the film, The Terminator spawned many sequels.
2:03:08
5 features at the time of recording.
2:03:10
Yeah. Terminator 2, Judgment Day in
2:03:11
1991, Terminator 3, Rise of the Machines was 2003, Terminator
2:03:16
Salvation 2009, Terminator Genesis 2015, and then
2:03:20
Terminator Dog Fade in 2019. The way they've been generally
2:03:24
received does vary a bit. Yeah.
2:03:27
What are our thoughts on the sequels, Wesley?
2:03:29
Well, I mean, this is going to be a stickler, isn't it?
2:03:31
Because I love Terminator, definitely one of my favorite
2:03:34
action films. T2 I cannot get away with at
2:03:36
all, right? I am not a fan of Terminator 2,
2:03:39
and you guys know that. And we've had many arguments
2:03:41
about it and it's fucking fine. It's buried now.
2:03:44
I don't find it as entertaining. I love the gritty nature of
2:03:47
this. I love the fast pace of this.
2:03:50
I can't buy into the character of John Connor.
2:03:52
It just doesn't work for me. T3, Rise of the Machines, I
2:03:55
tried to give it another go and it felt like, again, it just
2:03:57
lost control and started to spiral.
2:03:59
What I did enjoy was Terminator Salvation, even though it's read
2:04:03
by McGee, right? Yeah.
2:04:05
But I enjoyed Christian Bale and that.
2:04:06
I just. I loved seeing that side of it.
2:04:08
I loved seeing that John Connor rise, that whole, that future
2:04:12
vibe. I wanted to see more of that.
2:04:14
I've tried to watch T2 again. I appreciate, because I'm not a
2:04:17
fucking idiot. I appreciate it's a much better
2:04:20
film than this one is in every way.
2:04:22
The production's better, everything's better.
2:04:24
But I saw this one first. I didn't say T2 first, so that's
2:04:28
always going to live with me. But apart from that, it's a
2:04:31
franchise that should have worked a lot, a lot better than
2:04:34
it has. Yeah, I agree with that.
2:04:37
I mean, of the sequels, T2 is regarded by many as one of the
2:04:40
best sequels ever, and for many, bad in the first film.
2:04:42
Yeah, I prefer the Terminator. I just got a more grounded tone,
2:04:45
which is more to my taste. But I think T2 is a great
2:04:48
blockbuster. An action master class from
2:04:51
Cameron, visual effects master class.
2:04:52
The T1000 is still superb. Yeah, that sequels, none of them
2:04:56
particularly good for me. Genesis is especially bad where
2:05:00
they made the baffling decision to rewrite the events of the
2:05:03
first film, rewrite it and make it worse.
2:05:06
And Jai Courtney is Reese taking out Terminators and coming out
2:05:08
with James Bond style quips is very hard to watch.
2:05:12
Did you not like salvation? It was OK.
2:05:14
Yeah, I think that's the best one.
2:05:17
Yeah, Terminator 2. I like it a lot, but not as much
2:05:20
as I like this one. It's too long, it's too
2:05:22
sentimental, it's too jokey. Incredible action sequences,
2:05:26
obviously, but Edward Furlongs really annoying as John Connor.
2:05:29
So it's it's an annoying performance, I think and.
2:05:32
Hamilton's annoying in that. Oh no, I I like Hamblin in the.
2:05:35
Seat, I think she's really good, yeah.
2:05:37
I've seen the third one a couple of times, I know some people
2:05:40
really like it for the ending but I don't.
2:05:42
I don't like the fact it unders everything they achieved at the
2:05:45
end of the second for the new terminate and that was rubbish.
2:05:48
And Nick Stall as John Connor some.
2:05:50
I made Edward Furlong a bit more palatable somehow I think.
2:05:54
I've not seen any of the others to be honest.
2:05:56
I'm just not really too fussed about exploring them.
2:05:59
So we've had our say on the term that are sequels there, which
2:06:01
leads us nicely into our third and final ATRM page.
2:06:04
One question which comes from Phil Dalby.
2:06:07
Hello, Phil. Hello, Phil.
2:06:09
So Phil's asked us, there have been two attempts to create a
2:06:12
sequel to T2 with Rise of the Machines and Dark Fate.
2:06:16
In your own head cannon, what would the actually perfect T3
2:06:19
high level concept be? So here we go, let's get the
2:06:23
creative juices flowing. OK?
2:06:25
What do you think Matt? What's your T3 have been?
2:06:27
These are the kinds of questions we want.
2:06:29
These are good questions. I love them.
2:06:31
OK so if I was making the third one, it's terminated 3 new
2:06:35
future. So it's a few years after T2 and
2:06:39
three Arnies arrive. Two of them tried to kill Sarah
2:06:41
and John. I mean, so you're interested in.
2:06:45
The third one destroys them, see if Sarah and John this one.
2:06:48
However, it has the inbuilt technology to travel both
2:06:51
forwards and backwards in time. So back to its original leaving
2:06:55
point. So it takes Sarah and John to
2:06:57
the future. And what has happened is that
2:06:59
future John Connor has become obsessed with the idea that he
2:07:02
could make the Terminators a force for good, to protect
2:07:05
mankind, to use them in rescue services.
2:07:08
So he's developed a new version of Skynet.
2:07:10
However, the American president is a psychotic dictator.
2:07:14
Imagine that happening. And he's trying to take over the
2:07:18
Terminators for his own purposes.
2:07:19
So he's taken control of the Terminator factories, but John's
2:07:22
people have control of the ones he's already built.
2:07:24
So you've got these huge battles, Terminators against
2:07:27
Terminators. Now future John was paranoid
2:07:30
about something like this happening, so he's installed a
2:07:33
kill switch in Skynet that if activated will destroy every
2:07:36
Terminator. But because he was so paranoid,
2:07:39
he's corded it to his own living DNA.
2:07:42
But the President has had him assassinated, which is why
2:07:45
they've had to send a Terminator back in time to get young John
2:07:48
to sneak him into the Skynet control centre so he can
2:07:51
activate the kill switch. Wow, told you all of this
2:07:55
question. That's the Oliver Stone version
2:07:57
of Terminal. That's a JFK version of MAD.
2:08:00
American press and assassination.
2:08:01
Yeah. Yeah, totally.
2:08:04
That's amazing. You've put more into that than
2:08:07
you have of anything else in the episode.
2:08:09
I really have. Not even a joke.
2:08:11
I've totally spent so much time on this.
2:08:13
Yeah, it was worth it. I'm not even answering the
2:08:15
question now. Fuck that.
2:08:17
Well, I'm going to answer. Obviously, here we go.
2:08:19
So in my version 2 jewel timelines, right?
2:08:22
OK, timeline one, 1997, Sarah and John Connor right in there.
2:08:26
Obviously Arnold has to be in there somehow.
2:08:28
Yeah, the plot obviously has to be some variation of an even
2:08:31
crazier robot trying to kill Sarah and John.
2:08:33
We can flesh that out towards the same kind of overall plot
2:08:36
from the first two films. Timeline 2 is 2029, all new
2:08:41
characters, which would be cool. But Michael Bean's back in there
2:08:43
as Reese, so we're in the future war, OK Loads you can do there
2:08:47
with the lives of the humans, the machine world.
2:08:50
I mean, the budget's going to be absolutely massive by this
2:08:52
point. After I tell you too.
2:08:53
Obviously the key is how the film ends.
2:08:56
So we end in 2029 with Reese being sent back to 1984, which I
2:09:00
think would work for two reasons.
2:09:02
In The Terminator, Reese tells us that sending Arnold back was
2:09:04
the machine's last ditch plan. So we have that narrative play
2:09:07
out in 2029 for that plotline has a satisfying ending.
2:09:10
The humans ultimately win the war, and with the ending with
2:09:14
Reese travelling back to 1984, then the whole trilogy basically
2:09:17
ends where it starts. You've got this like circular
2:09:20
narrative across the three films that just plays endlessly
2:09:23
forever. That's never been done before as
2:09:25
far as I'm aware, not on this kind of huge scale anyway, and
2:09:28
taps into the theme from T2 with history repeating itself.
2:09:31
That could have been really cool if I say so myself.
2:09:34
But instead in T3 they gave us Arnold and Elton John sunglasses
2:09:38
going I Am back which is absolutely awful.
2:09:42
Is Nolan directing yours? John Northern, version of The
2:09:45
Terminator. No, Cameron don't want Cameron
2:09:47
back for it. He's got the trilogy.
2:09:53
Both wonderful. Anyway, I'll just read out what
2:09:56
I've written down. Sarah has a miscarriage and has
2:09:59
an affair with the Terminator. Arnold, Terminator.
2:10:05
No, no, we'll go back. And there's another Terminator
2:10:07
that's been sent back at the same time that Arnold has,
2:10:09
right? But obviously didn't do the job.
2:10:11
At the same time, the child that she has with Reese, she has a
2:10:15
miscarriage that you see at the end of the first Terminator.
2:10:17
So you think that John Connor has her son, but that's not
2:10:20
actually John Connor. So we'll wipe out Furlong Keep
2:10:23
and die. That's fair enough.
2:10:24
Then she finds that you find the real John Connor, who's been
2:10:28
raised by somebody else. Sarah Connor's not that
2:10:30
important. Do you know what I mean?
2:10:33
Yeah. Just try to take this pole
2:10:35
fucking paradox out of the equation of like, oh, that's
2:10:38
Kyle Reese and it's come back and be So then you find out that
2:10:41
she doesn't know who John's dad is.
2:10:42
You don't know who's John's dad is, but you find that it was the
2:10:45
original Terminator that was sent back in the first film and
2:10:48
his job was to impregnate Sarah with the Do you know what I
2:10:53
mean? That would be weird, but pretty
2:10:55
cool. It would definitely be that.
2:10:56
That's definitely weird. It would definitely be weird.
2:10:58
But why? Why over the machines sent the
2:11:00
Terminator back to impregnate Sarah with John Connor?
2:11:03
Because they don't want humanity to die, they want humanity to
2:11:06
live, right? So they want to actually save
2:11:08
humanity. So it's all misconstrued.
2:11:11
Judgment Day is going to happen whether you like it or not.
2:11:13
Right. Right, that's the end of the
2:11:15
world, but the machines want the humans to live and work
2:11:18
together. So judgment Day is the end of
2:11:20
the world. Is that meteors hitting Earth?
2:11:22
They don't see how judgment Day ends, such as say it's nuclear
2:11:24
warheads and all we get is it just offer renaissance fighter.
2:11:27
He's like Resistance fighter sort of release on something
2:11:30
fucking. Fucking hell, where's this film
2:11:33
going? Yeah, and the the AI, like, no,
2:11:36
what we need to do is get this guy in place and save humanity
2:11:38
because judgement day is gonna happen and they're trying to
2:11:40
rejig the past instead of change it.
2:11:43
So you'll go over the twist ending.
2:11:44
A kind of A twist on it, Yeah, I think that would be better.
2:11:47
Yeah. So three very different ideas
2:11:50
there. I can't wait to see the Facebook
2:11:52
comments on this episode when I go down.
2:11:55
Let us know which one you prefer.
2:11:56
Yeah, please do. Let us know what you're out of.
2:11:59
John and Matt, you prefer? So that is the direct follow up
2:12:04
to The Terminator, but how about its impact elsewhere?
2:12:07
What kind of influence and legacy has the Terminator had
2:12:10
since 1984, do we think? I mean, huge.
2:12:13
We've talked about its own franchise, launched the career
2:12:16
of Cameron Arnie, spawned Arnie's most famous catch phase.
2:12:19
And I think probably it's biggest one for me.
2:12:22
I think when son thought about it, I think it's the fact that
2:12:24
it created a vision of the future that I think is still the
2:12:28
definitive version of that post apocalyptic future.
2:12:31
And I think for all the sequels on the TV spin, us, all the
2:12:34
games, the video games, the books, whatever, this is still
2:12:37
the best of them all. Yeah.
2:12:39
So the first and the franchise is still be the best.
2:12:42
That's probably the biggest legacy it's got in. 1984.
2:12:45
As well as the whole rise of the machines concept.
2:12:47
I don't think would have had RoboCop without the Terminator,
2:12:50
Definitely not. And the influence on the Matrix,
2:12:52
I think it's pretty apparent. Yeah.
2:12:54
As I said, it was the launch part of the careers of Arnold
2:12:56
and James Cameron. All went on to.
2:12:57
Become one of Hollywood's biggest ever movie stars and
2:13:00
Cameron one of its biggest ever directors.
2:13:02
I feel The Terminator Cameron directed the most expensive film
2:13:05
ever made three times and has made the highest grossing film
2:13:08
ever twice in Titanic and Avatar, as well as pushing the
2:13:11
boundary to digital effects with ILM in The Abyss in T2 and then
2:13:15
again in Avatar. I mean, none of that happens,
2:13:17
but of The Terminator away from that, I think the Terminator has
2:13:21
definitely had wider influences as well.
2:13:22
We live in a time now where, like AI discourse is getting
2:13:26
bigger all the time, and a lot of people are advocating for
2:13:28
caution and how we develop that technology.
2:13:31
I think part of that for you is based around the themes that
2:13:33
Cameron explores in The Terminator.
2:13:35
And I've read articles by scientists literally referencing
2:13:38
Skynet before, so that's something to look forward to.
2:13:41
Yeah. Personally, I think we reluctose
2:13:43
on the future that we're seeing Blade Runner than we are the
2:13:45
Terminator. But still, in quite a few ways,
2:13:48
we'll see the effect of the Terminator today, I think.
2:13:51
Yeah, yeah. The biggest one for me is that
2:13:53
when he turns around, I was watching it again the other day
2:13:55
and it's like things like. That don't exist yet.
2:13:58
And he says, yeah, not for about 40 years.
2:14:00
It's terrifying. And it is becoming, like, part
2:14:05
of popular culture, I think. Well, it is part of mine when
2:14:07
I'm like, this is fucking Skynet and everyone knows what that
2:14:10
means. It means doom.
2:14:11
This is the end of the world. Why are we pushing it?
2:14:15
It's almost like it's going to be a documentary.
2:14:17
We're going to be sitting in a bunker in 40 years time watching
2:14:20
The Terminator going. We should have learned some
2:14:21
lessons from this, but we certainly haven't.
2:14:24
I think it's just its impact on like real life, how this thing
2:14:28
that he dreamt up, it came. To him in a dream.
2:14:30
Remember. But it's just terrifying how
2:14:34
realistic this is now becoming, how this seems to be accessible.
2:14:39
And As for sci-fi action films, without this, you haven't got
2:14:43
aliens. Without aliens, you haven't got
2:14:44
a million films. Without this you haven't got a
2:14:46
million films. So I can't sit and list them
2:14:48
all. But the influence the Terminator
2:14:50
had on everything since is, it's unbelievable.
2:14:55
So many sequels to the Terminator, most of them not
2:14:57
particularly great for us. The original that we've been
2:15:00
talking about though, influencing.
2:15:01
Genre pictures catapulting Arnold and James Cameron to
2:15:04
cinematic super stardom and impacting conversations around
2:15:07
artificial intelligence. I think the legacy of the film's
2:15:10
here to stay. Absolutely.
2:15:12
Yes. Yeah.
2:15:13
Undeniable. All the right movies.
2:15:17
Ranking and we have time travelled all the way through
2:15:22
the Terminator now. It's time for the big old
2:15:24
rating. Where?
2:15:25
We each score the film out of 10.
2:15:27
So Westie, what do you think You're the Morgan score for The
2:15:30
Terminator? I'm not going to hang around
2:15:32
with this. I'm going to get straight at the
2:15:33
point. I think it's an incredibly
2:15:35
powerful film. I think it's such a wonderful.
2:15:38
Vision from Cameron, from a dream, he created this and it is
2:15:42
so perfectly done, so perfectly realized.
2:15:45
People go, what does that mean? Or what does that mean?
2:15:47
Every question is answered, and it's answered with such
2:15:51
scientific accuracy. Like living tissue can come
2:15:54
through. You just go, yeah, OK, that
2:15:55
makes perfect sense. There's no corners cut.
2:15:58
Yes, some of the effects are lacking, but it's 1984, for
2:16:01
fuck's sake. He's trying to push the
2:16:03
boundaries and it's going to look a little bit chatty, but
2:16:05
you get to the heart of this film and it gets the heart of
2:16:08
you. It's so influential.
2:16:09
It's so good. It's so powerful.
2:16:11
It was so important for me growing up.
2:16:13
It's an influence on how to act. If you want to create something
2:16:17
and get it made and get it done. And in that stance, in that
2:16:20
headspace, it's an absolute 10 for me.
2:16:24
Yeah. So you've covered all the
2:16:25
stories of the Terminator, the one the film tells, the one of
2:16:28
how it was made, and our. Own kind of journeys with the
2:16:31
film all being great, which I think is indicative of what the
2:16:34
Terminator is at its core, which is a fantastic piece of
2:16:37
storytelling. From the concept Rise of the
2:16:40
Machines, time travel, Savior of Mankind through to the release.
2:16:44
It was very collaborative projects.
2:16:46
Galen Heard played a massive role as producer Gene Warren,
2:16:49
Stan Winston heading up the effects teams did pioneering
2:16:52
work on minuscule budgets. The cast deliver the goods,
2:16:55
especially Arnold who was massive in terms of physicality
2:16:59
and screen presence. Brad Fields score best work he
2:17:02
ever did and Alan Greenberg is DP, probably the same for me.
2:17:06
And working with every one of those people is James Cameron,
2:17:09
the public master, a scorching talent, one of Hollywood's
2:17:13
biggest talents ever. For me.
2:17:14
And I think The Terminator has maybe the best showcase of
2:17:17
Cameron's abilities as a filmmaker.
2:17:19
ID as man, concept artist, special effects expert,
2:17:22
screenwriter, director. He does it all and all to an
2:17:25
extremely high level. I mean, I love Cameron, I love
2:17:28
Arnold, and I love The Terminator.
2:17:30
It's a 10 for me. Boom, boom and mass to finish us
2:17:35
off. Your summary and score for The
2:17:36
Terminator, please. Yeah, I've I've enjoyed.
2:17:39
Talking about. This so much.
2:17:40
Not least because I just love talking about the angriest
2:17:43
director. That's ever lived, which is
2:17:46
every time, it's a joy, isn't it?
2:17:48
What a guy he is. I mean the film Law.
2:17:51
Justifiably iconic. Just recapping the legacy there
2:17:54
is. Enough to justify his classic
2:17:56
status. It's lean, it's scary,
2:17:58
brilliantly scored, brilliantly edited.
2:18:00
The work of a man furious to prove that he can direct and a
2:18:04
gripsy from beginning around. I love all the acting in it but
2:18:07
that sex scene is so bad. It's so dreadful. 9.5 for me,
2:18:13
0.5 for the sex scene. You've had worse sex scenes than
2:18:16
that matter. You also put this out there to
2:18:20
the disturbing future that is Twitter or X to get the thoughts
2:18:23
of our followers. So some of.
2:18:24
Their comments on the Terminator Jimmy MC Jimmy Vase at Jimmy
2:18:28
under score, Mcjohn said. I love the Terminator.
2:18:32
So many mind blowing ideas for my 13 year old brain.
2:18:35
Solid 9 out of 10. Some of the acting is a little
2:18:38
poor and the sex scene is terrible.
2:18:40
Made me a James Cameron fan for life but too bad he wrecked his
2:18:43
streak with Avatar. Yeah that's fair enough.
2:18:46
Is he 13 now? Was he 13 when he first saw it?
2:18:51
I. Reed at.
2:18:55
I Reedifer said 10 perfect action film and one of a handful
2:18:59
that created the stereotypes we see in action films today.
2:19:03
Hamilton and Schwarzenegger give iconic performances and it's a
2:19:06
creative home run by Cameron, who rivals George Lucas in
2:19:09
cinematic world creation. OK, creative home run.
2:19:13
I like that. A few creative home runs, to be
2:19:15
fair, I think. Yeah, Yeah, I like that phrase.
2:19:17
Yeah. Good.
2:19:18
Description. And one of our patrons, Dane de
2:19:21
Josi, said it's a 10 every. Day of the week, I know.
2:19:24
You gentle of aliens and. It is excellent, but I think
2:19:27
this film is Camerons best. He was forced to be more
2:19:30
creative than ever with a limited budget, and the result
2:19:32
is a lean, mean killing machine of a film.
2:19:36
Isn't that very nice from Dean there?
2:19:37
Yeah, lovely from Dean. But I'm going to have to
2:19:39
disagree. Aliens, especially aliens.
2:19:41
This was best out there. Yeah.
2:19:43
I would say from a filmmaking perspective.
2:19:44
The James Cameron who made the Terminator is the same Cameron.
2:19:47
Who made Aliens and the Abyss? Probably because he wrote it at
2:19:50
the same time, didn't he? So yeah, I mean, he went on to
2:19:53
do great things. But I do wish we'd had that
2:19:55
Cameron for a little bit longer, yes.
2:19:57
Yes, so do I. I've got to explain to me, kids.
2:19:59
This guy did Titanic what? It was.
2:20:03
Pretty much positive all across the board and surprisingly and
2:20:06
in terms of the score, Followers gave the film out of 10.
2:20:09
What do you think? 9 Be safe.
2:20:12
Yeah, because there's definitely people who prefer T2, so I
2:20:15
reckon they'll drag it down. To a nine as well.
2:20:17
Good point it was. 9.5 out of 10.
2:20:21
Oh nice. OK.
2:20:22
Oh, so in total. That gives the Terminator. 39
2:20:25
out of 40. Well, very good score.
2:20:28
You ordered up there? And that is that on the
2:20:30
Terminator hopefully hasn't made you want to steal a homeless
2:20:33
man's. Pants and.
2:20:34
Claim to be from the future you. Have to change your fucking?
2:20:36
T-shirt now, next time out, deck those holes, Trim those trays,
2:20:42
raise. Up cups of Christmas cheer.
2:20:43
Because Luke. Matt and Scrooge, I mean Westie,
2:20:46
are giving some Christmas wrapping as they talk.
2:20:49
Dan Aykroyd. Eddie Murphy and Trading Places.
2:20:52
Yeah, it's nice. Yeah.
2:20:54
It should be a fun one. It should be a fun one.
2:20:56
I'm looking forward to that. Yeah.
2:20:57
Some great quotes come from that one.
2:20:59
I think mostly from. Luke But we'll try and.
2:21:01
Get some words in people support.
2:21:03
Well, in the meantime to find out.
2:21:04
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Get involved, please do. We're all off now to call Tech
2:22:00
Noir and see if they're still open.
2:22:02
Which there will be. Never closes.
2:22:06
We'll be back and you'll be back next time, surely, for Trading
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Places. And until then?
2:22:10
Thanks for listening everyone. Thank you guys.
2:22:13
Thanks guys.