Latest / The You Project / #1879 More Mental Health Issues or Just More Diagnoses? - Dr. Hannah Korrel

Transcript

#1879 More Mental Health Issues or Just More Diagnoses? - Dr. Hannah Korrel · The You Project

0:00
Speaker 1: Good a team. Doctor Hannes back on the show, and
0:04
Speaker 1: there's a plus one in the family. We'll talk about
0:06
Speaker 1: that in a moment. But Hi, how are you.
0:10
Speaker 2: Hello, Coragt, how are you?
0:13
Speaker 3: It's so good to see you. Hello, everybody, I'm back, Yeah.
0:17
Speaker 1: It actually is. Really I've missed you. I forgot well.
0:21
Speaker 1: I mean, I love your energy, and I love like
0:24
Speaker 1: when you do this job right, three hundred and sixty
0:26
Speaker 1: five times a year, give or take. Not all of
0:28
Speaker 1: them are with a guest, but most of them are
0:30
Speaker 1: with a guest. Some of them are solos with just
0:31
Speaker 1: Fatty Harps in his flannel shirt. But it's always nice
0:36
Speaker 1: to talk to somebody who's got very good energy. And
0:42
Speaker 1: I'm going to be honest, doesn't make me work hard.
0:45
Speaker 3: So well, that's good to hear, especially if you're doing
0:47
Speaker 3: seven a day. My god, we were talking offer just
0:51
Speaker 3: a moment a week a week, a week, seven a week,
0:53
Speaker 3: seven a day would be outrageous. I mean, you're already
0:55
Speaker 3: pretty outrageous doing your PhD, doing your speaking gigs, and
0:59
Speaker 3: doing all your podcasts.
1:00
Speaker 2: It's pretty amazing.
1:01
Speaker 3: I'm thinking, Craig, maybe you're going to need to pivot
1:03
Speaker 3: into some kind of radio gig. At some point I
1:06
Speaker 3: see that in your future. I'm slightly psychic. I think
1:09
Speaker 3: I see into your future, I see a radio gig.
1:13
Speaker 1: Well, what, you can't be too psychic. Because I worked
1:15
Speaker 1: in radio for twenty years, I've already done it.
1:19
Speaker 2: I also have a foot in mouth problem.
1:23
Speaker 1: I like looking on that. He's well, yeah, I mean,
1:27
Speaker 1: here's the thing about radio. The radio is great. Radio
1:32
Speaker 1: was great training for me and it was a privilege,
1:34
Speaker 1: and you know, you're talking to lots of people, although
1:37
Speaker 1: we talked to lots of people in this show as well.
1:41
Speaker 1: Working in talkback radio, which I did, is pretty good.
1:45
Speaker 1: So on the sports station here in Melbourne, I was
1:47
Speaker 1: like their resident exercise science slight like gy, a little
1:52
Speaker 1: bit kind of inspiration, information education, high performancey guy. But
1:57
Speaker 1: what's good about talkback radio is it's are going to
2:00
Speaker 1: listeners all the time. But the bad of radio is
2:03
Speaker 1: that everything's very it's soundbites. It's like you talk to
2:08
Speaker 1: someone twenty thirty seconds, maybe one minute on the phone,
2:13
Speaker 1: and even when you have a guest, it's like we'd
2:16
Speaker 1: have you and we'd have you know, doctor Hannah coming
2:18
Speaker 1: out of the four o'clock news, and you come on
2:21
Speaker 1: after the you know, the news and the weather and
2:23
Speaker 1: the station idea and the time check and this and that,
2:27
Speaker 1: and you come on at four oh seven and then
2:29
Speaker 1: we're shuffling you off at four or eleven.
2:32
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, the producer goes.
2:34
Speaker 1: The producer goes, thanks, Hannah, that was great. Take care. Right,
2:39
Speaker 1: So you've just had fucking four minutes of not really
2:43
Speaker 1: a conversation.
2:44
Speaker 2: Happened. It's happened many times.
2:46
Speaker 1: Where they're firing like bullshitty, generic, cheesy, superficial questions and
2:52
Speaker 1: you're like, I can't answer that in sixty seconds, that's
2:56
Speaker 1: actually a conversation. So, and the beauty of this is,
3:01
Speaker 1: you know, as you said, before we started, what do
3:03
Speaker 1: we talking about? I said, I don't know. Then we
3:06
Speaker 1: had a solid twenty seconds of prep. But well that's
3:10
Speaker 1: the beauty. That's the beauty of podcasts. Then the beauty
3:13
Speaker 1: of having your own is if we talk for twenty
3:16
Speaker 1: minutes or two hours, it doesn't matter, there's no rules.
3:19
Speaker 1: If we swear or don't swear, it doesn't matter. Whatever
3:22
Speaker 1: topic we talk about within reason is absolutely fine. And
3:27
Speaker 1: wherever we go. And you know, so I love the
3:30
Speaker 1: freedom and the flexibility of podcasting and I think the
3:36
Speaker 1: not for everyone, but for the majority of people, the
3:39
Speaker 1: appeal is I feel like I'm listening to just a
3:44
Speaker 1: conversation versus a very stage managed, four minute bullshitty thing
3:51
Speaker 1: on the radio.
3:52
Speaker 3: You like the free element of it, so you can
3:55
Speaker 3: actually have a real conversation. And I think that's probably
3:58
Speaker 3: why so many people like listening to you. It's just
4:00
Speaker 3: that easy to listen to drive to work, you know,
4:04
Speaker 3: in the car you can learn something every episode.
4:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a sound bite, but.
4:13
Speaker 1: And also you know, I'm I'm learning as I'm going,
4:17
Speaker 1: I'm getting things wrong, I'm asking good questions and dumb questions.
4:21
Speaker 1: You know, there's been I've I've changed, I've unlearned things
4:26
Speaker 1: over my six years on this show where I used
4:29
Speaker 1: to think A and now I think B, you know,
4:32
Speaker 1: and you know I don't I've For me, it's been
4:36
Speaker 1: as much a I guess, a space where I can
4:41
Speaker 1: connect with people and ask good questions and provide something
4:44
Speaker 1: for the world, as much as it has been for
4:48
Speaker 1: me a classroom of learning and unlearning, you know. So
4:52
Speaker 1: to me it's been a gift, which sounds cheesy, but
4:55
Speaker 1: it's true.
4:56
Speaker 2: That's beautiful.
4:57
Speaker 1: Craig thank you. I don't want you to cry. All right,
5:01
Speaker 1: So you've had a kid.
5:03
Speaker 2: I had a baby.
5:04
Speaker 3: I had a baby, my little girl, baby Remy, had
5:08
Speaker 3: about six months ago. So I'm going through the throes
5:11
Speaker 3: of learning parenthood and all that jazz.
5:14
Speaker 2: It's it's been a trip.
5:17
Speaker 1: Wow. What I mean, I want to open the door
5:20
Speaker 1: too wide. But what was the what's the biggest surprised
5:25
Speaker 1: being a mum or being a parent in general? Where
5:28
Speaker 1: you've gone up. I never thought of that. This is
5:30
Speaker 1: what It's.
5:31
Speaker 3: Gonna make me sound so naive. This is gonna sound terrible.
5:37
Speaker 3: Please don't judge me. Having a child is nothing like
5:41
Speaker 3: having a pet.
5:43
Speaker 2: I don't know. Do I sound terrible saying that. Let
5:46
Speaker 2: me put that into context.
5:48
Speaker 3: I've only had pets before, and I've had like you know,
5:53
Speaker 3: like cats and dogs and stuff, and they're very like
5:56
Speaker 3: sort of stagnant, like they stay the same. So you like,
5:59
Speaker 3: I've got the cat. As everybody knows. I'm sure if
6:02
Speaker 3: you follow my Instagram, you know I have a cat
6:03
Speaker 3: named Jeff. And Jeff is Jeff, right, Like, Jeff stays
6:07
Speaker 3: the same, Jeff does the same things. Jeff is the
6:10
Speaker 3: same level of intelligence and has been for the last
6:14
Speaker 3: three years or four years.
6:15
Speaker 2: That I've had him. Remy, on the other hand, my
6:19
Speaker 2: daughter and this I know. I'm a psychologist, I'm a neuropsychologist.
6:22
Speaker 2: I know this.
6:23
Speaker 1: I know this, And I point out everyone that the
6:26
Speaker 1: woman's saying these things has a PhD in europsychology. So
6:30
Speaker 1: when you feel stupid, everyone don't feel stupid at all,
6:34
Speaker 1: because most of you have got doctor Hannah covered.
6:37
Speaker 2: This is a safe space.
6:39
Speaker 3: Crete ha ha I no, but I like for the
6:44
Speaker 3: first time, like I'm really learning what it means to
6:47
Speaker 3: be with a little human that changes and evolves every day.
6:51
Speaker 3: And I see her IQ changing and evolving every single day.
6:55
Speaker 3: And the baby that wakes up today is a different
6:58
Speaker 3: baby than yesterday because today's she's learnt to say my
7:01
Speaker 3: mo ma, mama, and yesterday she couldn't do that. And
7:03
Speaker 3: I'm I'm really finally appreciated. I think there's lines in life.
7:07
Speaker 3: Lines in life are things that until you have experienced it,
7:10
Speaker 3: you do not understand what it feels like, Like the
7:13
Speaker 3: line of the first time you you know, kiss a girl,
7:16
Speaker 3: or the first time.
7:17
Speaker 2: That you know.
7:18
Speaker 3: Try some kind of drug, or the first time that
7:21
Speaker 3: you have sex, or the first time that you something
7:25
Speaker 3: very significant, get married, or you know, so many lines
7:28
Speaker 3: of first that are huge, like the first time you
7:31
Speaker 3: fell pregnant, the first time you have a baby, the
7:33
Speaker 3: first time you parent a child. There's so many lines
7:37
Speaker 3: in life that until you have crossed the line, it's
7:40
Speaker 3: really hard to understand truly what it feels like.
7:43
Speaker 2: And I feel really grateful that I have crossed a line.
7:46
Speaker 3: And I know what it feels like to be pregnant, now,
7:49
Speaker 3: what it feels like to give birth, what it feels
7:51
Speaker 3: like to.
7:51
Speaker 2: Have a baby. And I'm still crossing lines now.
7:55
Speaker 3: I know what it feels like to have a six
7:56
Speaker 3: month old baby that's starting to talk and roll over.
7:59
Speaker 2: And eat food.
8:00
Speaker 3: So all of those experiences for me, you know, it's
8:03
Speaker 3: I am a psychologist, I'm a neuropsychologist.
8:05
Speaker 2: But I still I think that's why.
8:07
Speaker 3: I'm a neuropsychologist because I love this like I just no, no, no, no,
8:11
Speaker 3: I'm gonna eat it for breakfast, like I love I
8:14
Speaker 3: love learning and seeing these I'm getting excited talking about it.
8:17
Speaker 3: Hopefully that doesn't make me sound yeah crazy. My baby
8:21
Speaker 3: is nothing like my cat in short.
8:24
Speaker 1: Wow, that could be the title. My baby is nothing
8:29
Speaker 1: like my cat, my baby, My baby Remy is nothing like,
8:34
Speaker 1: nothing like Jeff the Cat. But but I think, look,
8:36
Speaker 1: what you're pointing out is the chasm between theoretical understanding
8:44
Speaker 1: or learning and experiential learning. It's like, oh, like I
8:48
Speaker 1: kind of yeah, well I realized, but I didn't. I didn't.
8:52
Speaker 1: I had to. I had to do this. I had
8:54
Speaker 1: to be in the middle of this. I needed to.
8:57
Speaker 1: I needed to have this experience to get this understanding.
9:01
Speaker 1: You know. So there's a difference between kind of acquired
9:05
Speaker 1: knowledge through you read something, heard something, saw something, which
9:10
Speaker 1: is kind of it's important, but it's really it's like
9:14
Speaker 1: with me when I talk about in a slightly different
9:16
Speaker 1: but still experience, I talk about obesity, childhood obesity, you know,
9:21
Speaker 1: as an exercise physiologist and all these things, and someone
9:23
Speaker 1: who's you know, doing their PhD and psyche and understands
9:26
Speaker 1: the insection of physiology, psychology, sociology and emotion around all
9:31
Speaker 1: of that bullshit around childhood obese. But I was fat,
9:35
Speaker 1: and you know, so that's where my real understanding and
9:40
Speaker 1: insight comes from, is being called jumbo and being picked
9:44
Speaker 1: on and being the fat eskid at school and being
9:46
Speaker 1: embarrassed to take your top off and like that's where
9:51
Speaker 1: my you know, And yeah, of course we all kind
9:53
Speaker 1: of get the theory. But when you know, when you
9:56
Speaker 1: go through something and I actually think, and this is
10:01
Speaker 1: you might hate this, and this is my supervisors will
10:05
Speaker 1: hate this. I think academy is overrated and experiential learning
10:09
Speaker 1: is underrated. I don't, which is not to say I
10:12
Speaker 1: don't think academic learning is valuable or important. Of course
10:16
Speaker 1: it is. But I think people who like some of
10:21
Speaker 1: the best teachers and coaches and leaders that I've ever
10:26
Speaker 1: met and inspirers and shapers and influencers of people in
10:32
Speaker 1: a good way, left school at year nine. But their
10:36
Speaker 1: innate ability to communicate, connect, understand, resolve conflict, build apport,
10:42
Speaker 1: build connection, read the room, read people, which is just
10:46
Speaker 1: experience and skill that they've developed. Like you can go
10:50
Speaker 1: and do four phdds and have none of that. And
10:53
Speaker 1: you and I both know academics who are socially emotionally inept.
11:00
Speaker 2: No comment you you absolutely no be braver.
11:06
Speaker 3: You know it, listen, know it, not to pivot hard.
11:11
Speaker 3: But I'm just gonna I'm just gonna comment that I
11:13
Speaker 3: think if that ability, what makes blows my mind is
11:17
Speaker 3: like if you can just harness that ability to vicariously
11:21
Speaker 3: learn through the experiences of other people when they tell you,
11:24
Speaker 3: you know, this happens, and that happens, and you.
11:26
Speaker 2: Know, learn learn from my experience.
11:29
Speaker 3: Like, if only we could really tap into that in
11:32
Speaker 3: a real visceral way where we truly take on that lesson,
11:36
Speaker 3: I feel like that's such a key to unlocking you know, equality,
11:40
Speaker 3: life is learning how to vicariously learn truly and deeply.
11:45
Speaker 2: When we hear about the experiences of other people.
11:47
Speaker 3: It's it's it's how do we take that to the
11:49
Speaker 3: next level, which is it's such an amazing thing. And
11:52
Speaker 3: I'm still I'm still figuring it out, Like I don't
11:55
Speaker 3: I'm not the perfect vicarious learner by any means, but
11:57
Speaker 3: it always blows my mind when I get an nice,
12:00
Speaker 3: real life example that hits home.
12:03
Speaker 1: Well, think about pursuant to that, your honor, Think about
12:09
Speaker 1: how many people, like how much stuff do we hear about,
12:12
Speaker 1: you know, eat well, sleep well, move your body, you know,
12:16
Speaker 1: try to manage your anxiety and stress, like surround yourself
12:19
Speaker 1: with people who build you up, not pull you. You know,
12:21
Speaker 1: all of these important messages and ideas around you know,
12:26
Speaker 1: self regulation, self management, you know, in terms of our health.
12:30
Speaker 1: But how many go yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, and
12:33
Speaker 1: eat shit and do shit and smoke shit and drink
12:36
Speaker 1: shit and then have a heart attack. Then all of
12:38
Speaker 1: a sudden they're like evangelizing everybody in their life about
12:43
Speaker 1: how to be healthy. Yeah right, because even though they
12:48
Speaker 1: theoretically understood, they weren't scared enough. Like I honestly think
12:54
Speaker 1: for many people it comes out like real change comes
12:58
Speaker 1: down to emotional leverage, like how fucking much do you
13:03
Speaker 1: want it? Because some people go, yeah, I'd like to
13:06
Speaker 1: be I'd like to be lean and fit and healthy
13:09
Speaker 1: and blah blah blah, but also I love beer and
13:11
Speaker 1: pies and cake, so fuck off.
13:13
Speaker 2: M m hmmmmmm. I totally get it, and for another
13:17
Speaker 2: day to discuss.
13:18
Speaker 3: But like with my just a tiny bit of self disclosure, Craig,
13:22
Speaker 3: because I did say this was off limits before we
13:24
Speaker 3: started the podcast, but here I go. When I gave birth,
13:28
Speaker 3: I had an injury from that which I'm doing physio
13:30
Speaker 3: to recover now. And you know, we only realized five
13:33
Speaker 3: months posts that i'd like torn some ligaments and it
13:36
Speaker 3: was like pretty bad injury and I have not I
13:41
Speaker 3: can tell you I have been doing over an hour
13:44
Speaker 3: of physio exercise every night diligently for a month and
13:48
Speaker 3: a half. Like I've never had such dedication to exercising
13:53
Speaker 3: until this has like truly deeply affected me on a
13:56
Speaker 3: really personal level and my ability later in life be
14:00
Speaker 3: able to do exercise and engage my body in the
14:02
Speaker 3: way I want to. And now all of a sudden,
14:05
Speaker 3: I have no problems getting that hour and a half
14:07
Speaker 3: of exercise every nighty and no matter what. And before that,
14:11
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, doing even thirty minutes of exercise, I
14:14
Speaker 3: wasn't doing it.
14:16
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's that. It's that I love that word,
14:18
Speaker 2: emotional leverage.
14:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's true. That's what it is. That's because,
14:22
Speaker 1: like you, you were quite more pain with not doing
14:26
Speaker 1: it than doing it. Yeah, on some level, consciously or not.
14:30
Speaker 1: There's a story in your head that says I absolutely
14:35
Speaker 1: need to do this, therefore I am absolutely doing it.
14:39
Speaker 1: And that's that's versus with many people, myself included at times. Right, Oh,
14:44
Speaker 1: I want to do it like I want to do it,
14:47
Speaker 1: is not I am doing it. Yeah, And it's that's
14:51
Speaker 1: that whole kind of reactive versus proactive, you know, Like
14:56
Speaker 1: I always say, the time to make really big decisions
14:59
Speaker 1: about your health and your lifestyle and your habits and
15:01
Speaker 1: behaviors is when you're healthy or before you get to
15:05
Speaker 1: that critical point, because I think, I mean this is
15:09
Speaker 1: very much generalizing, but having been in this space and
15:12
Speaker 1: working with people forever, I think most people can kind
15:15
Speaker 1: of get away with some bullshit until they're about forty.
15:18
Speaker 3: Not everybody, but that's my I was about, So what
15:22
Speaker 3: is it when does the rubber hit the road?
15:24
Speaker 1: Like?
15:25
Speaker 3: How do we apply this information and knowledge? About forty
15:30
Speaker 3: is the cut off?
15:32
Speaker 1: Look, I mean, that's that's terrible science. Everyone, that's that's
15:35
Speaker 1: bro science. That's Craig thinking out loud. So do with
15:38
Speaker 1: that what you will. But my experience is that people
15:43
Speaker 1: can do some pretty stupid shit to their body untill
15:46
Speaker 1: they're about forty. You know, smoke lots, drink lots of
15:50
Speaker 1: smoking is terrible, by the way, but drink you know,
15:52
Speaker 1: booze like unhealthy sleep, unhealthy, unhealthy habits. But once you like,
15:58
Speaker 1: your body really starts to age significantly after forty in
16:05
Speaker 1: general terms, if you're not looking after it. And I think,
16:09
Speaker 1: but once you get up around fifty, if you're still
16:12
Speaker 1: doing horrible shit to your body consistently. It's not that
16:15
Speaker 1: you can't change, but you might be doing some irreparable damage.
16:19
Speaker 1: So you know, But look, I mean, I know people
16:24
Speaker 1: who have turned their life around in their sixties and
16:26
Speaker 1: got lean and fit and healthy and strong and functional
16:29
Speaker 1: and change their habits and behaviors. And as you know,
16:33
Speaker 1: like you think about even the rehab you're doing, which
16:36
Speaker 1: is primarily a physiological process to create a physiological outcome,
16:41
Speaker 1: it's still a huge psychological and emotional component because you
16:46
Speaker 1: have to get your mind in the right place to
16:49
Speaker 1: do that thing.
16:50
Speaker 3: Every day and turning those muscles on and really connecting
16:55
Speaker 3: to it and thinking about it. And the emotional load
16:58
Speaker 3: of being totally exhausted. My daughter's teething. We don't get
17:02
Speaker 3: a lot of sleep at the moment.
17:04
Speaker 2: You just want to. It's so tempting to just lay
17:06
Speaker 2: on the couch.
17:06
Speaker 3: I'm so so tired, But nothing beats the feeling of
17:10
Speaker 3: having ticked the box.
17:11
Speaker 2: I got it done. Yes, I'm really happy that I did.
17:14
Speaker 3: I know I did everything I could today to make
17:16
Speaker 3: my body as healthy as it could be and repair
17:20
Speaker 3: as much as it could be. So I so's anyone listening,
17:24
Speaker 3: It's never too late. It's never too late.
17:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, wait to you, forty, what's the balance for you?
17:32
Speaker 1: Because obviously you're a mum and you're going to be
17:34
Speaker 1: a mom forever and that's beautiful, and but also you're
17:37
Speaker 1: a you're a career person, you're an academic. You're like,
17:42
Speaker 1: what's the balance is there? You know, because I know
17:45
Speaker 1: some some women have babies and they're like, they're back
17:48
Speaker 1: to work fourteen minutes later and they're moms, but they're
17:53
Speaker 1: still very you know, so that it's a timetable with
17:57
Speaker 1: everything including the baby and feeding and blah blah blah blah.
18:01
Speaker 1: Has there been a big adjustment to how you do
18:04
Speaker 1: life obviously with the baby, but in terms of navigating
18:08
Speaker 1: career stuff.
18:08
Speaker 3: Now, yeah, I mean when I felt pregnant, initially I
18:13
Speaker 3: made some big life decisions to step back and away
18:16
Speaker 3: from certain roles in my life because you know, I
18:18
Speaker 3: am a neuropsychologist, so I do believe in the sanctity
18:22
Speaker 3: of certain trimesters and wanting to keep myself as stress
18:25
Speaker 3: free as possible for my little bubby to grow.
18:28
Speaker 2: Healthy and safe.
18:30
Speaker 3: So I had made a decision to pull back from
18:32
Speaker 3: you know, hospital work and from lecturing at universities and
18:35
Speaker 3: just focus on my private practice. So I have a
18:38
Speaker 3: private practice where I do autism, ADHD assessments, intellectual disability
18:43
Speaker 3: and das you name it, we do it.
18:46
Speaker 2: So that's based in Sydney.
18:48
Speaker 3: I yeah, I focused on that instead, and I was
18:53
Speaker 3: doing I was a bit like U Craig. I was
18:54
Speaker 3: doing a lot of different jobs. I had like three
18:57
Speaker 3: different jobs at the same time. I was go go
19:00
Speaker 3: my entire career, go, go, go, always doing something. I
19:04
Speaker 3: think I'm pretty passionate about, neurosy like, so it was
19:07
Speaker 3: very easy for me to you know, start at seven
19:10
Speaker 3: in the morning and not finish until nine o'clock at
19:12
Speaker 3: night because I just I love it so fun, just
19:15
Speaker 3: fly so quickly, and I just had to change that.
19:19
Speaker 3: I can't do that anymore because I have a little
19:21
Speaker 3: one inside me that needs me to be calm and rested.
19:25
Speaker 3: So I made decisions to change my workload. In the
19:29
Speaker 3: first timester when I was like ten weeks pregnant, I
19:32
Speaker 3: decided to change my workload and that I've run with
19:35
Speaker 3: that since pregnancy, which I'm.
19:38
Speaker 2: Very happy about. And it's that classic cliched.
19:42
Speaker 3: You know business owner who says, oh, I should have
19:44
Speaker 3: done this earlier. You know, when you just bite the
19:46
Speaker 3: bullet and you decide, I'm going to invest in my
19:48
Speaker 3: own my own business, and when you're a full time
19:50
Speaker 3: into my own practice, it's never been better.
19:54
Speaker 2: It was absolutely the.
19:55
Speaker 3: Right decision, you know, for me, sometimes everybody's different, but
19:59
Speaker 3: for me, that was one hundred percent the right decision
20:01
Speaker 3: to focus on that one area and do that really
20:04
Speaker 3: really well, really thorough, really comprehensive, throw myself into that
20:08
Speaker 3: and be really passionate. That's my practice is my other baby.
20:12
Speaker 3: And taking care of, you know, the patients and the
20:15
Speaker 3: clients that we see is something I'm really dedicated and
20:18
Speaker 3: passionate about. And it was just nice to be able
20:20
Speaker 3: to focus on one thing and not feel split across
20:25
Speaker 3: multiple things. I'm sure one day I'd love to go
20:27
Speaker 3: back to teaching and love to go back to hospital work,
20:29
Speaker 3: but I think that's probably a way down the track.
20:33
Speaker 3: And then in terms of when I've had the baby
20:35
Speaker 3: and when I had a little baby, remy I have.
20:38
Speaker 3: I'm very fortunate. I have a very supportive partner who's
20:41
Speaker 3: doing a lot of paternity leave, so I have had
20:44
Speaker 3: the ability to go back to work fairly early on
20:47
Speaker 3: and I don't know if I'm unusual that I love
20:52
Speaker 3: my job so much, Craig, like, I love it. So
20:55
Speaker 3: I started back at work pretty early after Remy was born,
21:00
Speaker 3: where I was, you know, still supervising registrars, still going
21:03
Speaker 3: over cases, still seeing certain clients, and it was only
21:07
Speaker 3: you know, a few hours a week here and there,
21:09
Speaker 3: and we slowly increased it over time. But I, yeah,
21:14
Speaker 3: I really enjoyed being able to have, like, you know,
21:16
Speaker 3: half a day a week that I was able to
21:19
Speaker 3: work even when she was first born, and that for me,
21:22
Speaker 3: was what I needed to help with making making me
21:26
Speaker 3: feel still Hannah and not just you know, I'm just mum.
21:30
Speaker 3: Now I'm still Hannah, and it just it's odd. It
21:34
Speaker 3: wasn't resting, it wasn't sleeping, but man, I found it
21:37
Speaker 3: so invigorating to you know, step out of mum role
21:41
Speaker 3: and step into doing some business and doing some neuropsychology.
21:46
Speaker 3: That invigorated me and that fueled my soul and that
21:49
Speaker 3: made me feel good. So that was a bit of
21:51
Speaker 3: a convoluted answer my, Like, there's no perfect there's no
21:56
Speaker 3: perfect balance. But for me, I've really enjoyed having a
22:00
Speaker 3: combination of being with my buddy and also being able
22:03
Speaker 3: to work, so that's worked for me.
22:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, do you think you're I don't know if
22:08
Speaker 1: this is a good question. I'm just interested more philosophical
22:12
Speaker 1: about the world and life. Now that you're a mum
22:15
Speaker 1: and now that you're like your life has forever changed
22:19
Speaker 1: and your priorities are forever changed. Or are you essentially
22:23
Speaker 1: the same, just with another thing on the to do
22:26
Speaker 1: list in the nicest possible way.
22:29
Speaker 2: Oh wow, that's such a good question. I mean, I
22:34
Speaker 2: did just compare my baby to a cat earlier. No,
22:39
Speaker 2: I don't know. Yes, No, I think I've well, I
22:41
Speaker 2: think I've always been.
22:42
Speaker 3: Like family is really important. Nothing comes before family. I
22:46
Speaker 3: just haven't had, you know, a little person dependent on
22:49
Speaker 3: me before. So I've been able to prioritize my work,
22:53
Speaker 3: you know, number one for a lot of my life.
22:55
Speaker 3: And now I've been able to go, Yeah, no, forever,
22:58
Speaker 3: this my little my human being will be you know,
23:01
Speaker 3: my prop number one priority, and I'm gonna make sure
23:03
Speaker 3: that I take care of her. That still feels authentically, Hannah.
23:08
Speaker 3: It doesn't feel like a huge shift. I feel like
23:11
Speaker 3: I've been very fortunate in easing into this, and it hasn't.
23:14
Speaker 3: I haven't felt like I'm suddenly a different person. In fact,
23:17
Speaker 3: actually claiing to be perfectly honest, I thought that I
23:21
Speaker 3: would be like like something would click, there would be
23:23
Speaker 3: a light bulb flick, and I would just be like,
23:26
Speaker 3: I'm a mom now and I feel like a mom,
23:28
Speaker 3: and I identify as a mom, and I know what
23:30
Speaker 3: it feels like to be a mom. And I was
23:31
Speaker 3: actually saying to my partner just the other day, like
23:34
Speaker 3: that never happened. I don't, in inverted columbas, feel like
23:37
Speaker 3: a mom. I kind of equate it to like, you know,
23:40
Speaker 3: when you're a kid and you're like, when I'm an adult.
23:43
Speaker 2: I'll feel like an adult and I'll think.
23:45
Speaker 3: Like and then that never happens, and you just have
23:47
Speaker 3: the same inner monologue and you're just thinking like the
23:50
Speaker 3: same child that you were, the same voice in your
23:52
Speaker 3: head when you were eight, when you're eighteen to when
23:54
Speaker 3: you're thirty eight.
23:56
Speaker 2: That's kind of like what it feels like.
23:58
Speaker 3: I thought I would feel differ, friend, but I feel
24:00
Speaker 3: still feel the same.
24:03
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm like a sixty year old, twelve year older,
24:09
Speaker 1: you know, just a big child. I wonder do because
24:14
Speaker 1: you're a mum and also a neuroscientist, neuropsychologist, one time
24:19
Speaker 1: researcher PhD, all of those things, and you're working constantly
24:23
Speaker 1: in and around brains and minds. Is there a self
24:29
Speaker 1: imposed pressure on the development the optimal development of your
24:38
Speaker 1: child's brain? Like, are you like analyzing and reanalyzing every
24:44
Speaker 1: nuance because zero to five is like zero to five
24:48
Speaker 1: is crucial in terms of brain development and all the
24:51
Speaker 1: other Like do you're like, no, fuck it, She'll just
24:55
Speaker 1: be a kid and whatever will happen will happen. Or
24:58
Speaker 1: is there some let's not tell anyone, but is there
25:01
Speaker 1: some strategy in there around developing her Brian optimally?
25:04
Speaker 3: Oh? Man, Yeah, I mean perhaps you need to check
25:07
Speaker 3: in with me on a six monthly basis for the
25:09
Speaker 3: next five years, because I feel like so far we've
25:11
Speaker 3: been pretty relaxed and we've just been going with the
25:14
Speaker 3: flow and observing these amazing things happen and been like, yeah,
25:18
Speaker 3: she's ticked that developmental milestone and wow, she's getting a
25:21
Speaker 3: bit of object permanence now, and oh my gosh, she's
25:23
Speaker 3: looking at herself in the mirror and just it's been
25:26
Speaker 3: actually so lovely to just kind of throw my hands
25:29
Speaker 3: back and go, yep, it's your.
25:30
Speaker 2: Brain's job to develop that. Now, it's not my job
25:33
Speaker 2: to do it.
25:33
Speaker 1: It's you.
25:33
Speaker 3: It's your job to do to do it. My only
25:36
Speaker 3: job is to make you feel loved, to give you food,
25:38
Speaker 3: give you a nice roof of your head. And I've
25:40
Speaker 3: really lent into being like, Yay, I'm not responsible for
25:43
Speaker 3: your brain doing its job. I just get to enjoy
25:46
Speaker 3: and observe that and take the pressure off myself to
25:48
Speaker 3: be responsible for your brain being perfect. It's going to
25:51
Speaker 3: do what it's going to do. We've been pretty relaxed
25:54
Speaker 3: for the first six months, but I mean check in
25:57
Speaker 3: again when she's a bit old time, because I think
26:01
Speaker 3: it's definitely pressure in the future, perhaps maybe it'll maybe
26:04
Speaker 3: they'll feel differently.
26:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I guess. Also, though, like how a kid's
26:10
Speaker 1: brain develops other than just a natural kind of you know, biological, neurological,
26:17
Speaker 1: psychological development, sociological development that happens in a baby, all
26:22
Speaker 1: that normal stuff, but also that is all shaped and
26:26
Speaker 1: influenced by environment and suits and her parenting style, you know, context, situation, experiences, nutrition, Like,
26:39
Speaker 1: there are still variables that you need to only you
26:42
Speaker 1: can manage that she can't manage at this point in time.
26:45
Speaker 1: So do you ah, yes, I mean you know what
26:48
Speaker 1: I'm saying, like, you want to do the right you
26:51
Speaker 1: want to provide an optimal environment.
26:53
Speaker 2: And in enriching environment. Oh yes, okay, yes, so yes, yes,
26:56
Speaker 2: the answer is yes.
26:57
Speaker 3: So my partner did sit me down and we had
26:58
Speaker 3: a conversation about how many toys, how many stimulating educational
27:03
Speaker 3: toys I had bought the baby because we do have
27:06
Speaker 3: a lot. But you know, I mean that to me
27:11
Speaker 3: was essential. I've also done, you know, breastfeeding. We're doing
27:15
Speaker 3: the whole you know, solid foods now, all that stuff
27:19
Speaker 3: to try to achieve an optimal an optimal enriching environment
27:23
Speaker 3: for her as best we can. So whatever's in our control.
27:26
Speaker 3: I think I've definitely felt like, let's do that, and
27:30
Speaker 3: let's try to do that to the best of our ability,
27:32
Speaker 3: but also being a little bit kind to yourself, like,
27:35
Speaker 3: you know, maybe you don't have the space for all that,
27:39
Speaker 3: or maybe it's not as easy to you know, do breastfeeding.
27:43
Speaker 3: Like my early experience of breastfeeding was pretty tough to start,
27:46
Speaker 3: So I completely understand why someone would go I'm not
27:50
Speaker 3: going to pursue that because sometimes the mom having good
27:53
Speaker 3: mental health is more important because you're right, it is,
27:57
Speaker 3: you know, attachment style and the karma you are the
28:01
Speaker 3: calm of the baby's going to be. I definitely have
28:03
Speaker 3: noticed when I'm stressed, Remy's stressed. When I'm calm, Remmy's calm.
28:07
Speaker 3: And the super secret tip, which you know, take it
28:10
Speaker 3: or leave it, but my parenting tip that I've found
28:13
Speaker 3: is super helpful is when Remy's a bit distressed or
28:15
Speaker 3: we were having trouble getting into sleep, Mommy and Daddy
28:18
Speaker 3: would have a cuddle and a kiss above her grip.
28:21
Speaker 3: Maybe that sounds crazy, but it literally every time Ellie
28:25
Speaker 3: and I had a little cuddle, we had a little peck,
28:27
Speaker 3: she would calm down and stop crying. And I just
28:29
Speaker 3: thought that that was so telling of the environment being
28:32
Speaker 3: relaxed and calm impacted her.
28:35
Speaker 2: Take it or leave her people.
28:37
Speaker 1: That's amazing, that's amazing.
28:39
Speaker 2: That was beautiful.
28:41
Speaker 1: So can we broaden the lens of this conversation a
28:43
Speaker 1: little bit and talk about kids other than your kid?
28:48
Speaker 1: But it's I don't know if maybe there's just more
28:52
Speaker 1: awareness now or you know, kids being diagnosed with a
28:58
Speaker 1: range of different you know, mental challenges and issues and
29:03
Speaker 1: is it are we just more aware or is there
29:06
Speaker 1: more prevalence of both, Like it seems like every second
29:11
Speaker 1: kid has has diagnosed with something and medicated for something
29:19
Speaker 1: of a psychological you know nature. Is it? What is
29:23
Speaker 1: the story? Is it a bit of both?
29:24
Speaker 2: Yeah?
29:25
Speaker 3: Well, look, when I did my PhD, like I looked
29:28
Speaker 3: into ADHD and language disorders, and when I was doing
29:31
Speaker 3: that paper, you know, I the research at that time
29:35
Speaker 3: was suggesting that most of the studies that said things
29:38
Speaker 3: like we're over diagnosing and you know, it's not real
29:42
Speaker 3: and it's just a case of you know, overpathologizing. A
29:46
Speaker 3: lot of the studies that made those comments it wasn't
29:48
Speaker 3: actually in the scope of the study to make.
29:50
Speaker 2: Comments like that.
29:51
Speaker 3: It was them speaking outside of you know, the range
29:55
Speaker 3: of s studies measure.
29:56
Speaker 2: To even comment on it.
29:58
Speaker 3: And so there's a lot of fear mongering that there
30:01
Speaker 3: was an over diagnosis of things like ADHD for example,
30:04
Speaker 3: But an actual fact, the increases to the rates of
30:07
Speaker 3: ADHD were simply they tended to align and it was
30:11
Speaker 3: once I saw a very beautiful slide which I would
30:14
Speaker 3: love to replicate, but it was the increase to the
30:18
Speaker 3: number of people diagnosed with ADHD whenever there was a
30:21
Speaker 3: change to our diagnostic criteria. So we have a little manual.
30:25
Speaker 3: It's like a menu of criteria which tic tick tick.
30:28
Speaker 3: If you tick enough, then you get the diagnosis. When
30:31
Speaker 3: the menu was made more accurate and specific, there was
30:35
Speaker 3: an increase in diagnoses, and that wasn't because there was
30:38
Speaker 3: more people with it. It was just because we were
30:40
Speaker 3: detecting them better. So every time there's been a massive
30:43
Speaker 3: spike in the base rates or the increase of people
30:46
Speaker 3: with ADHD or other conditions, it has aligned with the
30:51
Speaker 3: next addition of the diagnostic Statistical Manual, which is that
30:56
Speaker 3: wonderful bible we have that's used.
30:58
Speaker 2: Internationally to diagnose feria conditions.
31:01
Speaker 3: So to me, that's sort of suggesting this is about
31:03
Speaker 3: us getting more accurate and getting more well, getting better
31:09
Speaker 3: at finding these people so that they don't end up
31:12
Speaker 3: in their thirties, forties, fifty sixties. And I see people
31:15
Speaker 3: in there right into their sixties who were never diagnosed
31:19
Speaker 3: with intellectual disability. They were never diagnosed with ADHD or autism,
31:23
Speaker 3: even when it was glaringly clear that they have an issue.
31:27
Speaker 3: Those people just were never seen because back then it
31:31
Speaker 3: may have been stigmatized or completely missed. So in my book,
31:36
Speaker 3: it is it's not an overpathologizing things. It's that we
31:40
Speaker 3: are getting more accurate at detecting these things.
31:44
Speaker 1: What are we up to? The DSM six? Is that
31:46
Speaker 1: where we're at the moment?
31:47
Speaker 3: Five five five yeah, yeah, So what do you know?
31:54
Speaker 1: It's so interesting, it's so interesting. I don't know about
31:58
Speaker 1: all of that.
31:58
Speaker 2: I it's okay. I think it's a safe speed.
32:03
Speaker 1: I don't disagree with you. I think a lot of
32:06
Speaker 1: people did in the old days and in the old
32:09
Speaker 1: age back you know, when I was a kid. I
32:11
Speaker 1: think people did, you know, Like I've got really good
32:14
Speaker 1: friends who were dyslexic and they didn't find out till
32:20
Speaker 1: they were like sixteen. Well, no one, you can't read Champ.
32:24
Speaker 1: You're not stupid. You've got dyslexia. You know. So a
32:26
Speaker 1: lot of things did. But how do we know that? Well, Like,
32:33
Speaker 1: and I know there are specifics and boxes that have
32:36
Speaker 1: to be ticked. I know it's very methodical, but you
32:39
Speaker 1: know the difference between someone who's having a bad day
32:41
Speaker 1: or a bad week, which is just part of the
32:43
Speaker 1: human like, you know, depression and anxiety and self doubt
32:47
Speaker 1: and overthinking and feeling a bit blur and feeling a
32:49
Speaker 1: bit shit. That's also just part of being a human.
32:53
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, you know, true.
32:55
Speaker 1: Yes, So it's not like, oh, you're sad, you're depressed. No,
32:58
Speaker 1: you're just sad because you're human. Because if something bad happened,
33:02
Speaker 1: or you know, someone called you a dickhead, or you
33:05
Speaker 1: watched a movie or like, I don't know, I.
33:09
Speaker 2: Don't know, is there where's the line any Yeah?
33:12
Speaker 1: Where's the line.
33:13
Speaker 2: Between normal and.
33:18
Speaker 3: Yeah?
33:18
Speaker 1: And also when you go, oh, I don't know, Like
33:21
Speaker 1: when people go I am, it's like an I am statement.
33:25
Speaker 1: Then they're whatever they've been diagnosed with becomes their identity.
33:29
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.
33:30
Speaker 1: That worries me a little bit. You know, I am depressed,
33:34
Speaker 1: I am anxious, I am I have Like it's ah
33:40
Speaker 1: and I get it. And I'm not trying to be
33:42
Speaker 1: tricky or difficult. I'm just like, where's the line? You know?
33:47
Speaker 1: Like what we go, all right, well, you're medicated now forever,
33:50
Speaker 1: all the best? Like are we fixing the problem? Are
33:53
Speaker 1: we treating the symptoms? Is there way any way to
33:56
Speaker 1: fix the underlying problem? Is it completely biological and there's
34:00
Speaker 1: nothing we can do? To like, Yeah, what's I know
34:03
Speaker 1: it's multi dimensional, but what are your thoughts?
34:06
Speaker 2: Oh well, big questions, big questions.
34:09
Speaker 1: Understand for all of that, put a bow on it.
34:13
Speaker 2: And when done so you know too.
34:16
Speaker 3: I think two points that you've kind of really brought
34:19
Speaker 3: rays that are very fair. Is one, when's the line
34:22
Speaker 3: of when do I know? Like, how do I know
34:24
Speaker 3: when this is more than just normal? When is this actually,
34:29
Speaker 3: you know, neurodiverse or atypical? When do I get my
34:32
Speaker 3: brain checked? In other words, like when do I need
34:33
Speaker 3: to get an assessment done? And the second question is
34:38
Speaker 3: is having a diagnostic label helping people or is it,
34:42
Speaker 3: you know, something that may may be detrimental to their
34:44
Speaker 3: sense of self. Now that first question of how do
34:48
Speaker 3: I know when to get my brain checked, you know,
34:50
Speaker 3: one of the fundamental answers, and I can give you.
34:53
Speaker 3: I could unpack so many symptoms and so many case
34:56
Speaker 3: studies where I've seen where people have told me some
34:58
Speaker 3: really full on exams samples of you know, not just
35:03
Speaker 3: being inattentive, but being so distractable and so unable to
35:08
Speaker 3: concentrate that they have, you know, caused significant issues in
35:13
Speaker 3: their workplace to the point of losing maybe millions of
35:16
Speaker 3: dollars in contracts because they've accidentally put a digit or
35:19
Speaker 3: a decimal in the wrong spot. Or people who are
35:22
Speaker 3: so impulsive that they have bought a house that they
35:26
Speaker 3: couldn't necessarily afford and they've put a bid down for
35:30
Speaker 3: something that they couldn't actually handle. Or people who are
35:34
Speaker 3: so disorganized that they have the money to pay for it,
35:37
Speaker 3: but they have not paid a single parking fine and
35:40
Speaker 3: now they're getting pulled into court and then maybe legal
35:42
Speaker 3: proceedings against them.
35:43
Speaker 2: Or somebody who.
35:44
Speaker 3: Has literally locked themselves out of the house nine times
35:47
Speaker 3: they've had to call the locksmiths every single time to
35:50
Speaker 3: get themselves back into the house. You know, there's there's
35:53
Speaker 3: normal forgetfulness, there's normal poor concentration and disorganization, and then
35:59
Speaker 3: there's a functional impairment to your life, a functional impairment
36:04
Speaker 3: to social relationships, like the people who I see who
36:08
Speaker 3: are having a marital breakdown or a relationship breakdown because
36:12
Speaker 3: of how severe their symptoms are. There are educational impacts.
36:17
Speaker 3: So there's people who are you know, I've had many
36:19
Speaker 3: people who will tell me about times they'll sit in
36:21
Speaker 3: a car and absolutely break down and they can't get
36:23
Speaker 3: themselves to go into an exam that they've been studying
36:25
Speaker 3: for for the last seven days because they just face
36:28
Speaker 3: they can't face it. Or people who have had to
36:30
Speaker 3: drop out of UNI or drop out of school because
36:33
Speaker 3: they're smart enough to do the work. They're often very
36:36
Speaker 3: gifted and very intelligent, they just can't seem to get
36:38
Speaker 3: themselves to do the work. There's also work impacts where
36:44
Speaker 3: you know, we're getting reprimanded, you know, to the point
36:47
Speaker 3: that this is starting to threaten my ability to do
36:50
Speaker 3: my job. This is starting to threat I've got the
36:52
Speaker 3: ATO knocking on the door because i haven't submitted my
36:54
Speaker 3: taxes in five years now. These are all examples of
36:57
Speaker 3: clients who I've literally seen who have told me about
37:00
Speaker 3: their symptoms and who we are just living with this
37:02
Speaker 3: going on. So we're talking about a significant functional impairment
37:06
Speaker 3: to your life, and a lot of people will have
37:08
Speaker 3: strategies to try and manage that. I once saw a
37:11
Speaker 3: girl who she literally picked up her iPhone and she
37:14
Speaker 3: scrolled and scrolled and scrolled and scrolled and scrolled because
37:17
Speaker 3: she had that many alarms down to the minute to
37:21
Speaker 3: remind her alarms in alarms in alarms, because she'd keep
37:24
Speaker 3: missing things, and if she didn't have that alarm, she
37:26
Speaker 3: would miss everything. So I think it ultimately it's coming
37:30
Speaker 3: down to the functional impact. If you feel like it
37:33
Speaker 3: is impacting social education work, it's impacting your life in
37:38
Speaker 3: a really negative way, That's that's the line. That's the
37:41
Speaker 3: line where it's worth going to talk to someone about it.
37:45
Speaker 3: And the second part of your question was does the
37:47
Speaker 3: label do anything? And could it be hindering someone or
37:50
Speaker 3: harming someone? And I want to kind of flip that
37:53
Speaker 3: on its head for a second and say, well, what
37:54
Speaker 3: if we don't give a label. You know, I see
37:57
Speaker 3: people in their twenties, thirties, forties who had undiagnosed autism,
38:02
Speaker 3: for example, or undiagnosed ADHD or undiagnosed dyslexia. What they
38:08
Speaker 3: often end up calling themselves is lazy, stupid, unintelligent, not
38:14
Speaker 3: good enough. And when I sit with them and explain
38:17
Speaker 3: to them, no, no, there was a part of your
38:19
Speaker 3: brain that wasn't working the same as other people. You
38:22
Speaker 3: are a square peg in a world of round pegs
38:24
Speaker 3: that wasn't.
38:24
Speaker 2: Made for you.
38:25
Speaker 3: This information was not explained to you in a way
38:28
Speaker 3: that you could understand. That has caused that person to
38:31
Speaker 3: internalize and call themselves all sorts of horrible names and
38:35
Speaker 3: believe all sorts of horrible things about themselves. When they
38:39
Speaker 3: finally find out, actually there was something genuinely different about
38:44
Speaker 3: my brain. It can be very validating to hear I
38:47
Speaker 3: am not unintelligent, I am not lazy. There is a
38:50
Speaker 3: real reason why this has been a struggle for me
38:52
Speaker 3: compared to other people, and hearing those terms has helped
38:56
Speaker 3: them to really validate their lived experience.
39:00
Speaker 1: Hmmmm. I like it. I like it. It's a good explanation.
39:04
Speaker 1: And I think there's that having that diagnosis and that awareness,
39:09
Speaker 1: and there's a fair chasm between that and understanding, oh,
39:12
Speaker 1: this is why I am the way I am and
39:15
Speaker 1: walking around calling yourself anxious or calling yourself whatever it
39:20
Speaker 1: is all day every day while you know so that
39:24
Speaker 1: that doesn't Yes, it is. It is part of part
39:29
Speaker 1: of what's going on with you, but it's it's not
39:33
Speaker 1: the totality of you like this, it's not who I am.
39:37
Speaker 1: It's not who I am at my core. Yeah, I mean,
39:41
Speaker 1: and with things like and I know that there are
39:44
Speaker 1: a lot of variables around this, and you get ten
39:46
Speaker 1: people with ADHD, for example, they're not all going to
39:50
Speaker 1: behave the same react, the same, respond, the same, express
39:53
Speaker 1: the same, But that's my assumption anyway.
39:57
Speaker 2: No, that's very true. There are different phenotypes.
40:00
Speaker 1: Right, So are we trying to with somebody, like with
40:07
Speaker 1: somebody who has ADHD and who often we're seeing now
40:11
Speaker 1: people in their forties getting diagnosed, going ah fuck, no,
40:14
Speaker 1: wonder you've been like that your whole life. You're not broken,
40:17
Speaker 1: you're not weird. There's just this thing, and your gorgeous
40:20
Speaker 1: and amazing, but you've got this thing going on. Are
40:23
Speaker 1: we trying to just manage that thing? Are we trying
40:26
Speaker 1: to are we trying to improve the condition or are
40:32
Speaker 1: we trying to provide a medication that will just keep
40:37
Speaker 1: them more operational and more functional?
40:42
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, such a complex quession, which we could probably
40:44
Speaker 3: do a whole nother episode on. To be honest, the
40:48
Speaker 3: short answer is sometimes both. It depends on severity. I think,
40:54
Speaker 3: you know, holistic approach is always better than having one
40:58
Speaker 3: silver bullet, right, The idea that you could just pop
41:01
Speaker 3: a pill and every problem is going to go away.
41:03
Speaker 3: I think anyone who's triald medication.
41:05
Speaker 2: Knows that that's not how it works.
41:08
Speaker 3: There is an element of behavioral change, therapy, interventions, rehabilitation,
41:15
Speaker 3: and effort for work that needs to go into the
41:19
Speaker 3: functional impact getting better and things like I talked about
41:23
Speaker 3: with work and school and relationships. You can't just take
41:26
Speaker 3: a pill and expect everything to go away, which is
41:29
Speaker 3: why you know people who think I'll just take that
41:31
Speaker 3: medication and everything will be gone. No, you also have
41:35
Speaker 3: to put some effort into well unlearning some bad habits,
41:39
Speaker 3: and so the brain, the frontal lobe's learning some better
41:41
Speaker 3: regulation skills so that you're not reliant on that medication forever.
41:46
Speaker 3: The idea is it's helping your brain to bring it
41:50
Speaker 3: up to a baseline level that you can start to
41:53
Speaker 3: learn some new skills and some new habits and healthier strategies,
41:57
Speaker 3: healthier external strategies so that you can start to function
42:02
Speaker 3: better in life and be happy and live live the
42:05
Speaker 3: quality life that you need to.
42:07
Speaker 2: Or you want to.
42:08
Speaker 3: So, you know, I think anyone who's saying what just
42:12
Speaker 3: one answer is probably too reductionistic. It's a holistic approach
42:17
Speaker 3: where we need to look at sleep and diet and
42:20
Speaker 3: you know all the things we mentioned earlier in this podcast,
42:24
Speaker 3: and a lot of people can have great success without
42:26
Speaker 3: medication as well by exploring those avenues too. So the
42:30
Speaker 3: answer is not always just medication, but for some people
42:33
Speaker 3: it can be absolutely life changing.
42:36
Speaker 1: Now I know there's no three or four point list
42:39
Speaker 1: that you're going to wheel out, But if somebody is thinking,
42:44
Speaker 1: I wonder if I should go and see a doctor
42:48
Speaker 1: Hannah or similar, what kind of criteria do they need
42:55
Speaker 1: to meet or what kind of needs to be going
42:58
Speaker 1: on for me to go? Might be something, might be nothing,
43:02
Speaker 1: but I'll go see someone and have a chat, like what,
43:05
Speaker 1: you know, if there was stuff going on with me
43:07
Speaker 1: where I was unsure, what might precipitate me going to
43:12
Speaker 1: see you?
43:14
Speaker 3: So I think, you know, if you feel like you've
43:17
Speaker 3: got to a point where something in life is really
43:22
Speaker 3: not going the way that you were hoping it is
43:24
Speaker 3: going to go, so there's a significant impact to your life. So,
43:27
Speaker 3: say you're not able to do your work, say you're
43:30
Speaker 3: not able to study, Say you're not able to have
43:34
Speaker 3: a healthy, meaningful relationship with someone when you want to,
43:38
Speaker 3: and you've been trying to do this and you're finding
43:40
Speaker 3: that in those aspects social work education, you're not getting
43:44
Speaker 3: things done that you need to get done, to the
43:46
Speaker 3: point that it's impacting your ability to do that job,
43:51
Speaker 3: impacting your ability to do that course, impacting your ability
43:54
Speaker 3: to be in that relationship, and you're going to lose
43:56
Speaker 3: something as a consequence.
43:58
Speaker 2: You know.
43:58
Speaker 3: That's when I'm saying that, That's when I'm thinking it's
44:01
Speaker 3: probably time to just have a chat with someone. You
44:03
Speaker 3: could have a conversation with your GP about it.
44:06
Speaker 2: Your GP will.
44:07
Speaker 3: Often have some good questionnaires that are a nice little
44:10
Speaker 3: to start starting point, and then that could then be
44:14
Speaker 3: a referral to a neuropsychologist or a psychiatrist for a
44:17
Speaker 3: more thorough examination. So you know, I think deep down
44:22
Speaker 3: a lot of people will resonate with some of these
44:25
Speaker 3: things and they'll know, dip down that sounds like me.
44:28
Speaker 3: You can do a little bit of research, make sure
44:30
Speaker 3: it's a reputable organization where you're getting your facts from.
44:35
Speaker 3: Do a bit of knowledgeable research about it. But there
44:38
Speaker 3: does come a time where it's helpful to talk to
44:40
Speaker 3: it a professional to make sure that you're not I suppose,
44:45
Speaker 3: getting your information from poor sources. And that's where touching
44:49
Speaker 3: base with the GP may be useful as just that
44:52
Speaker 3: interim person. Do you think I should go and see
44:54
Speaker 3: the neuropsych or the psychologist or the psychiatrist. People like
44:59
Speaker 3: my do intakes where we'll just do a fifty minute session.
45:03
Speaker 3: We'll go through and say is there enough in there
45:04
Speaker 3: for you to get an assessment? Is there any point
45:08
Speaker 3: or is there something else going on, like you're not
45:11
Speaker 3: getting any sleep, you have a significant problem with alcohola
45:14
Speaker 3: drug use at the moment, or you haven't trialed some
45:17
Speaker 3: therapy for six months to see if this is just
45:19
Speaker 3: something you can work out through neurotypical depression anxiety strategies.
45:24
Speaker 3: Then you know there might be other things you can
45:26
Speaker 3: explore before you seek an assessment. But when in doubt,
45:30
Speaker 3: I actually think I'd err towards just talking to a
45:33
Speaker 3: professional touching base with your GP and have a little
45:36
Speaker 3: conversation about it and just see what the professional has
45:41
Speaker 3: to say about it.
45:44
Speaker 1: And always we should first start with chat GPT, though.
45:47
Speaker 3: Right, I don't know, I feel like that's a bit
45:53
Speaker 3: of a double edged sword card.
45:55
Speaker 1: I'm kidding.
45:57
Speaker 3: Look, it's an amazing tool. It's an amazing tool. You
46:00
Speaker 3: could say, were the symptoms of ADHD and see what resonates.
46:03
Speaker 3: But just keep in mind those algorithms they I think
46:08
Speaker 3: somebody used the term hallucinate to me the other day.
46:10
Speaker 2: Have you heard of that, Craig, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
46:13
Speaker 3: Where they start, it's us to say stuff that may
46:15
Speaker 3: not be accurate, so.
46:16
Speaker 1: It says that often comes up with stuff which is
46:20
Speaker 1: complete garbage, so.
46:21
Speaker 2: It doesn't replace the professional That.
46:24
Speaker 1: Was a joke, everybody, don't We don't start there. Hey,
46:29
Speaker 1: I'm glad that you and the kiddo well and that
46:32
Speaker 1: the world's best partner is being the world's best partner,
46:36
Speaker 1: and that you look happy and healthy, and maybe we
46:40
Speaker 1: can chat more than once a year.
46:42
Speaker 2: Huh, let's do it. Let's let's continue the chat.
46:47
Speaker 3: I'm sure there's lots of things we can unpack here.
46:50
Speaker 2: We've talked about a lot today.
46:52
Speaker 1: How do people connect with you? Doc?
46:55
Speaker 3: Come and check me out at Sydney neuropsych dot com
46:58
Speaker 3: dot au. That's my practice and you can also find
47:01
Speaker 3: me on Instagram. I'm the no ballsych is in N
47:05
Speaker 3: O b U L L Psych Noble and Yeah, very
47:10
Speaker 3: happy to chat if you have any questions, if you
47:12
Speaker 3: wanted a little bit more clarification or anything, We're always
47:15
Speaker 3: happy to help.
47:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me on the show. Craig is
47:19
Speaker 2: actually really great to see you again. I'm so happy
47:21
Speaker 2: to be back.
47:22
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm a little bit awesome. You're welcome. I
47:26
Speaker 1: did a humility workshop and I was the best. I'm stoking.
47:31
Speaker 1: I was going to say, oh, that's what I was
47:33
Speaker 1: thinking just before we let you go. Hey everyone, so
47:36
Speaker 1: you know that we've got our Facebook group, so the
47:40
Speaker 1: you Project Facebook page. If you've got some questions for
47:45
Speaker 1: doctor Hannah, come in there and we might we might
47:49
Speaker 1: well see if there's any response. We might do a
47:51
Speaker 1: Q and a session with the good doc around anything
47:54
Speaker 1: that we've spoken about today, or more broadly, anything in
47:57
Speaker 1: the psychology, neuros, ecology, human behavior, brain you know, you
48:03
Speaker 1: get it, anything in that space, and if we can't
48:08
Speaker 1: answer it, we'll make something up, which is you know,
48:10
Speaker 1: that's what we do. We just make shit up. No,
48:14
Speaker 1: go to that page and if you want to leave
48:16
Speaker 1: a question or two, we will. We'll keep those questions
48:20
Speaker 1: and we'll get the doc back and we'll maybe do
48:23
Speaker 1: a Q and A session which might be interesting. What
48:25
Speaker 1: do you think now?
48:26
Speaker 2: I think that's a great idea.
48:27
Speaker 3: And guys, in the interim, if anything we've talked about
48:30
Speaker 3: today has been triggering for you, or anything that has
48:33
Speaker 3: brought some stuff up for you. Do get in touch
48:35
Speaker 3: with the Lifeline. Reach out to Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen.
48:38
Speaker 3: They get They're there for support if you have any
48:41
Speaker 3: of the questions or want to quickly research things. Places
48:43
Speaker 3: like the Raising Children Network is really great online and
48:46
Speaker 3: that's useful for anyone who might have questions about themselves
48:50
Speaker 3: or a child of theirs, if they're a bit worried
48:51
Speaker 3: about something going on with their development.
48:54
Speaker 1: Perfect as always, I'd expect nothing less. Thanks Doc. We'll
48:57
Speaker 1: say goodbye a fair but for now, thanks being back
49:00
Speaker 1: on the new project.
49:01
Speaker 2: Thanks guys,