Latest / Feedbag with Nat Lauzon / Episode 23:Dating in Midlife: Younger Men, Red Flags & Dating Mistakes (PART 1)
Transcript
- nat: When it comes to midlife dating, what are men doing wrong? god. that's a red flag on fire. does having sex early make things more complicated? if I'm home by nine, I will expect the goodnight text that night before he goes to bed. We're 50 Nat Do you want to talk about any of these fucked up messages you got from dudes? The chemistry is important, but it doesn't have to be there from the get go. Someone kissed my nose once. What? Like just a peck on the nose, or he put his tongue up your nostrils? I dated this guy. he's married with three kids. You didn't know. I didn't know. Hi, I'm at, and welcome to Feedbag. Today it is all about dating in midlife. My guest is the foremost expert of dating in midlife in my personal circle of friends. She is here, she's single, and man the woman has stories. MF. Hi. I'd like to start by you giving us your midlife sort of stats. My stats. okay, so I am forty-eight I have two kids in their twenties who are still at home for now. one's still in school, one just started working. And I have been separated from their father for sixteen years. Okay. Yeah. And you've been dating ever since. Yes. Can you give me a few words off the top of your head? Yeah. Words that come to mind when you think about dating in midlife. Exhausting. yeah. Exhausting. hilarious. surprising. Bewildering. Can you say that? Bewildering, yeah. Bewildering? a lot different than would you say dating like back in the day? It's probably much different because now at this age we're just in a different place in our lives. if you're twenty and you're looking for someone or twenty five, you're looking to get married, you're looking to have kids, you're looking to buy a house. So the way you search for someone is not the same as now where I already did all that. I have all that. Yeah. So it's a different So how are you searching for someone now? What are you looking for? So I think that it's different for different people. For me, particularly, because I'm here. But for me, Because I've already had my kids and they're grown, because I already have my own house. Because I I have my career and I'm I'm, you know, in a senior role now. Like I'm a different so I'm looking for someone that's in the same kind of situation. Who can meet you where you are at. That's exactly that's well said. Yeah. Well said, Nat Yeah. you know, I can work remotely. So, you know, in the next few years I can and want To go away for a month or two in the winter and get an Airbnb somewhere in Portugal and work there. Can can can he come with me? Like I don't want someone that that doesn't have the kind of situation that I or that has younger kids, which is quite often I'm encountering this, right? Yeah, because I had my kids really young because I met their father really young. Yeah. But men often have kids later in their life. If I'm forty eight and you have a five year old, this is not gonna work. So it's it's an automatic no if the kids are really young. Yeah, because then it th it's not because I don't love kids. No, you know me, I'm the mo I know, you adore children, right? And they adore me. Yes. But I wanna be able to have a last minute eight PM Wednesday night dinner. I wanna be able to say, We're leaving next week for two weeks to Mexico. You know, like and somebody with young kids, they can't do that. Right. So it's nothing against the kids. And it's okay that they're in that situation. It's just not for me. It's just not for you. The same way that they can't be with me if they're allergic to animals. Yeah. Dogs and cats in the house. So yeah. Yeah. I wonder if we should mention the cone, but Yeah, we should. I feel so underdressed myself. We should all be wearing a cone in solidarity. He just he's fine, as you can see. He's got a little hot spot, which dogs will often get in the summer, and we I gotta prevent him from licking it. So that's what we do. Yeah, poor buddy, but he's fine. He's really obviously Yeah, he's handling it like a champ, hanging out with the ladies. I wanna talk about the online component I just wanna know your perspective of the men's profiles on dating apps because when I was dating like a few years ago, I often found Men and trust me, I'm sure that it happens on the other side too. I'm sure that women do this too. But I found men to be lazy with their profiles. Yes. but tell me what your experience is now. Same, right? So so anyone who knows me knows I'm very thorough. Yeah. And so my profile is extremely detailed about me, about my situation, about what I want, about what I don't want. Maybe too much, but that's how I am. And I don't think you can have too much, by the way, on a dating profile. I wanna know all the stuff. So I don't have to Google you later. Right? But yes, I find that most of not all, but a lot of the men's profile are lazily written. There's very, very little information. I've I've now recently in the last couple of years, when they have no information about themselves, I don't swipe. Bye bye. I don't swipe. Like like you put a little Exactly. You've put zero effort into it. And it's not like it's something you have to repeat every day. You do it one time. Your job, your height, if where you live, if you have kids, like seriously. let's talk about photos. What do you want to know? I want to know what kind of photos dude should have. First of all, let me just write out the gate say Not from 1989. Yeah. Or 99. Have recent photos, dude. Yeah. I don't know. Everyone has a freaking camera. Yeah. Everyone has a phone. Everyone, but I I don't yeah, that's just that to me is almost like lying. It well, it is. Because like if I'm meeting you now and you're 52 and you're bald. I don't want to see a picture on your dating profile from 15 years ago when you still had a full head of hair. Right. I I actually prefer bald anyway, but like then you meet the person and they're like fifty pounds ago. Yeah or like 15 years ago from the picture and it's like, come on. And it would not we would not have necessarily minded had you just been upfront. Like don't lie to get the date. Like it's so gross, it's so disingenuous It's lying, it's lying, it's lying. And I and then it turns you off completely. or what I'm seeing. Is like their age says, let's say 44, and then you read their thing, and then it says, I'm actually 60, right? But I can't correct my thing anymore. when Rupert was online, he did skew younger. He did put his age younger because, but but in his first message, he said this is how we admit it right away. Everything. Okay. Everything was up front. So I was like, What and then I was like, okay, cool. But and it's because that's who he wanted to To meet. he wanted to be with a younger person. So he did do that. But you know what I'm seeing? The reverse. So let's say my yeah. Like my gap is like let's say thirty-eight to fifty-eight. Okay. Let's say. And then I get someone that says 42 and we start chatting and he's actually 30 or 34. And he's like, but so the same reason I put that because I'm looking for an older woman. Right. It feels different than older skewing younger, doesn't it? And it feels a bit different because I feel like if you're that much younger, you're not at this stage of life I'm at. That's the problem. That's the problem. That's the problem. Whereas older skewing younger, you are at the stage or maybe slightly more. Slightly more. Hopefully more, yeah. So what do you do with that? Well I mean I mean, I have dated younger. Tell us about that. What do you want to know? So you're forty-eight. Yeah. And how much younger did you date? He was so it was this year. So this is all recent. I've never dated younger before. but for some reason there's more young guys coming towards me than before. Right. Which is flattering, but also a little odd. But yeah, the youngest that I've dated, he was thirty-three. So there was a fifteen year gap there. Right. Yeah. It didn't last very long. Do I still feel thirty-three? It's like what I'm Well, that's the thing. Most of the time, if I see their picture in my head, we're the same age. I know. Same. Like I think I stopped aging in my mind at like thirty three. Exactly. were you hesitant to do it? 100%. Okay. And then why what why did you do it? because so I dated two. So one was 33 and one was 34. Okay. they were very insistent. They were like, let's just meet and we'll see. Like My ex girlfriend was twelve years younger, twelve years older than me. And then one was like my my one of my exes was 17 years older than me. And that's what I like. Okay. And I was like, okay, I guess. And one of my really good friends has such a gap with her boyfriend. And they bought a house. She has three kids. They all live together. Like it it can happen. Of course. It can work. It can It can work. Yeah. It depends on the people. Right. Now, it didn't work. With these guys for me, because of what you said. Like they were not in the right situation. Yeah. and I understand why at that age. It's okay. It's totally okay. Right. Yeah. but it's not for me. But it's not for me. Like I don't want to say in a precarious living situation, but like compared to me, it kinda was, right? Like Like I said, I own my house, the kids are grown, like I'm looking at retirement. You know, like and they're like just starting off basically, like they weren't sitting on their butts they weren't sitting on their butts playing video games. Absolutely not. They had a plan of course and they worked hard and they were working toward a thing. Yes, because I wouldn't have met them otherwise. Yeah, yeah. I wouldn't have met them otherwise. But they were still too premature in those plans for me. I get it. For me. it seems that whenever I see you, and it's like I we see each other every couple months or something. Yeah. And then I'm like, what's happening? Yeah. And it'll be like, there's like so and so on the you know, I've been talking to so and so and they've seem like they really got their shit together and I'm like, it's so exciting and they seem so cool and they're like cute and blah, blah, blah. And then the next time I see you, it's like, we're not even talking about it. We don't even need to go there. We don't need to waste our breath. So like what happens What happened between A and B? Like what what happens? sometimes what they say or what they choose to divulge and what you find out over a few dates is not the same picture. Okay. So, for example, you know, you meet someone who's a little bit older than you. Their kids are grown as well. They have a house as well. They seem to have a good job, the whole thing, and you're like, yeah, great. Cool. Yeah. Awesome. You get excited about it. Of course you get excited about it, you know? And then you get to know each other and then you find out that, yeah, their kids are older, but there's They're not independent at all. Okay. Or they do have a house, but but it's still a very fresh mortgage and they're not nearing retirement at all. At all. And stuff like that. And so so on the forefront, when you meet them, when you first start talking to them, you're like super excited. But then when you know more, then you're not you realize you're not aligned. And it doesn't mean they're a bad person. it's nothing bad on them at all. Yeah. It's just not a match with. with what I'm looking for. When it comes to midlife dating, in your estimation, what are men doing wrong? be honest. First of all, be honest. Be honest. But what they're doing wrong on the grander scheme of things is like a lot of men are not comfortable with who they are. I find. And and I mean like they're just like either insecure or they have unresolved issues from the past, relationships, or just past trauma that they've had. Like I have met one I'm not gonna name, but who had deep trauma from his childhood. That was completely unresolved. Wow. And that was coming out in every hard situation. And that he did not want to address. So, like, if you're not okay with yourself and who you are and where you are, you're not gonna be able to be the right person for somebody else. what point after seeing someone Is too late for them to send you a follow up text. how many days should go by or hours? Days. my gosh. Okay, not days. Yeah, and clearly not days. Okay, so what should what what should they do? When do they need to like step? Okay. So men are DNA'd to be hunters. So if they like you, they like you. It shouldn't take seventy-two hours for them to get back to you. I agree. Unless they have another date planned tomorrow and then they want to see how that's gonna go. Right. Fair. But technically, if I'm home by nine, I will expect the goodnight text that night before he goes to bed. Or worst case in the morning, you know, thank you for yesterday, had a good time, whatever. But I won't do that. You won't do it to them. No. You just wait. Yep. What happens if they don't write you till like a week later? done. So do it quickly or don't do it. That's right. If you're interested. If you're interested. Obviously. What is the what what is the longest statute of limitations? like honestly, it takes two seconds to send a text message. So I'd say max twenty-four hours. Whoa. Yeah. Okay. Come on. You're interested or you're not? Okay, I have some can we talk about sex? Yeah. Okay. Let's talk about sex. Yeah, that's exactly what came into my head. close your ears, Bolt. Sexy times cue the music. does having sex early make things more complicated? Yeah. Or w explain go one hundred percent. What? Go. so not just based on my experience, but based on everything I've read. for the throughout the years. So most of the time what ends up happening is if you get physically close too fast, there is an attachment that forms. And that attachment is formed on what you've established physically, like a chemistry that you have. But the deeper bond is not established yet. Right? Yeah. You still don't know if you're compatible. You don't know how he reacts in certain situations that are important. You don't know if your long term plans align for real. You don't know how he's gonna treat your family. You don't know how he treats his family. Like all the important things haven't been addressed yet. I just say it's a it's a matter of chance because some people it happens. Right? That they've done the the other way around. They've gone physical really fast. And then it is ended up working out. Yeah. But still, regardless, I still believe that that's the exception to the rule. So how how long should people wait? Or is there really a timeline? there should be a timeline because yeah, exactly. It depends what you want. Yeah. It depends timeline. Like how often are you seeing that person? If you're always seeing them two nights a week having coffee. then you're not really like experiencing them in different situations that give you the information that you need to know. So there's no fixed timeline. I don't think so. It really depends. what does chemistry feel like? How would you describe chemistry? on on on my part, it's obvious. Yeah. It's because I suck at poker and and so it's very obvious. Like my daughter would my daughter has seen it in action and she'll be like, Ma, really? Like you're crushing on that guy. Stop looking at him that way. And apparently I talk to them and I touch them when I talk to them, I giggle. Yeah and I And I don't even realize. No. It's so funny when we think about how at the very root of things we're just animals. Yeah. You know, we are just animals. Like we we'll touch and eye contact and this and whatever else and don't know it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. But you know, also, again, you know, with age comes a bit of wisdom. The chemistry is important, but it doesn't have to be there from the get go. That was a question I was gonna ask you. Yeah. So there is this. a relationship therapist called Jenny Young and she has the this this burned haystack dating method. Okay. And it's super interesting. So the concept of it is you need to burn down all of the the pieces of hay to find your needle. One of the things that she talks about is that really hot and strong chemistry from the beginning will normally fizzle out and it's not gonna be long term. Whereas the success stories that she has from her I don't wanna say clients, but from her her people or whatever didn't start off with strong chemistry. Did not. and there's there there's like rules there. like the guy that comes on strong with like, hey sexy, you're so hot and that like that burn. Burn. like a checklist of stuff to burn. Okay. Burn, burn, burn, burn. So for stuff if you want something that's gonna be lifelong. Obviously. If you're looking for a short term fling and like then whatever, by all means. But so chemistry is important, but often it builds. I would agree with that. because and I think and especially for women, I think it all chemistry is also one of those things that builds because you see them in different situations. You see how they are with their kids or with the waiter or with animals or you see how they take care of you or they take out the garbage or they you know, whatever your love language is and they adhere to that, then it's like What? And and chemistry will build depending on how they make you feel. So if you're feeling heard, if you're feeling listened to, if they're caring and they ask you the next day, so how was it yesterday? Like they that that for women, yeah, that will build chemistry. Yes. Because then you feel emotionally safe and you feel like he actually cares. Yeah. Everyone just wants to feel safe. Everyone just wants safety. Okay. Let's say a guy says that he really likes you and he's super into you. Yeah. What does he need to do to demonstrate that? Okay. This happens all the time. So they come in really strong and you're so beautiful and all the time. my God, finally someone who's settled in life and who's You know, then they have like this whole list of of adjectives to to woo you, which is nice. But then the keyword here is consistency. So you can say that for a few days, a week, two weeks. What are you showing me over time? because maybe you're saying that to ten other people. They could be. They probably. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or not, maybe they mean it in the moment and they don't even realize what they're doing. Right. Right. Like a lot of people don't even know what love bombing means. And women like we're more we read more stuff, we do a bit more research. Men just kinda go like with the flow and experience stuff. So they're not as well versed maybe in in the terms. so, yeah, consistency is key. So asking you how how you are, how was your day? How was that event? Yeah, but not only that, because that's all superficial stuff. It's good. Yeah. But then it has to be more than that. How was your childhood? How's your relationship with your mother? Tell me about your job. Like, what do you care about? Like, how did you get into dog rescue? Like things that matter. If they ask no questions and it's always like, Good morning, beautiful. And then at night it's, how was your day at work? And then it always stays there. It's not gonna go anywhere. No, no, no. Go deeper. Go It's not gonna go anywhere. Yeah, for sure. Go deeper. If someone is interested in you, they will ask you questions. They will want to know more about your life. This goes for all relationships and yeah, exactly. Even friendships. Yeah. Actually. Yeah. They always it's a give and take. Red flag or not, Lady. Red flag or not. Yeah. Bad texter Wait, define bad. like bad spelling? Or like he only texts every three days. Like what does you what do you mean? Okay, let's say bad speller. Yeah. It's a red flag. Yellow. But it would bother me. It would totally bother me. It would bother me. You can't spell. I know. I know. French and English. For me, that makes sense. Like there's no reason why you can't, you shouldn't, you should send garbled shit. That's one of my pet peeves. Okay, fine. Okay. Agree. red flag or not still talks about his ex. Yes. It's a red flag. Yeah. Never been married. No, no, I don't think so either. Been married three times. Yes. Bello. What's the cutoff here? huge age gap. Define... I'm gonna say 20 years. Yeah. It's a red flag. Yeah. Doesn't want kids. No, we're That's good. That's fine. Yeah, that's what we want. Lives with his mother. god. That's that's on that's a red flag on fire. I actually spoke to one guy a few weeks ago and one of my criteria in my super exhaustive profile is lives alone, pets and kids included. Dude, I'm almost fifty. Of course you should be living alone, right? Yeah. We spent a few days chatting back and forth and then I was like, I don't know why. I was like, You you live alone, right? No, he asked me. He's like, You live alone? I'm like, No, I have my kids with me and my dogs and my cats. But it's my house. Like, yes, I live alone. And he goes, yeah, me too, but my mom lives with me. Then you don't live alone. I'm like, Your mom lives with you? He goes, Yeah, I bought I bought our family home and my dad passed away, so she lives with me. Like with with or like in an intergenerational like with with. So I'm like, so that's tough. Does she cook for you? He goes, Yeah, every day. And I'm like, no, no, no. She probably folds his underwear too. So what matters is is the relationship, like what's happening with the dynamics. And she lives upstairs. Different story. Maybe. Yeah. That's better. Maybe. Maybe not. But I feel like I that's messed up at our age. Come on. That's rough. I mean I get I it was nice of him. Like it's kind of him. But is it even true? Is it even true? That he lived with his mom while No, maybe he never left is what I'm saying. Maybe he never left. Maybe he's never lived with a woman. He's just still a mama's boy. You know what I mean? I know rent is expensive, but like get some friends. Get a basement. No, no, no, no, not get some friends. We don't want roommates. Yeah, but I'd rather have a roommate than a mom. I don't know. Wouldn't you? I no, none of it. What if the dude was like, I have a roommate? No. We're 50 Nat Who need no. Okay. Okay, is this a red flag? Yeah. I th get sexual really quickly. Yes. Yeah, red flag. amazing chemistry but inconsistent communication. Red flag. Red flag. Texts constantly but never makes plans. Te super red flag. Bye. I'm gonna give you some would you rather's Kay? Okay. Okay. Would you rather have amazing sex but terrible texting? Yeah. Or amazing texting and mediocre sex. forty eight year old me is gonna go with option B because sex can be worked on, but communication usually that's how they are. yeah, because you can learn sexy times. Yeah. Because you're learning a person anyway. It's not all across the board same people like this or that. Exactly. What? Not everybody thing. Yeah, this is true. This is true. Yeah. but mediocre though? I don't know. Yeah, but mediocre can be it can be worked on, you just said. I know, but mediocre is so bad. Mediocre means badder than bad. Mediocre is like a five out of ten. Okay. You could get them up to a seven. Yeah. You could get them up to a ten. Yeah, over time. But if the communication is good and everything else is great, yeah. I'd rather that than great because then the opposite won't be fixed. if the sex is already great, that's fine. But if the communication is the shit, that's how he is. Yeah. If at the beginning he's still trying to get you and you can't already know. No, okay. Can't work up from there. Communication, so important for women. So important. would you rather someone who texts too much or not enough? Too much. Because you could just put it on mute. Yeah. Yeah. Because not enough is annoying. okay. Someone who's incredibly hot. Yeah. I mean like Chef's Kiss. Uh-huh. But boring AF. Or average looking but hilarious. That. Yes. Of course. Every time. Of course. Every day of the week. Of course. Would you rather someone 10 years younger or 10 years older? no, I can't answer. It depends. I know. It really depends. It depends. Because I've met 55 year olds that are in better shape than 35 year olds. It depends. Yep. No. Okay. someone who's great in bed but messy, or terrible in bed, but has a spotless house. First. Great in bed but messy. Yeah. You're okay with the messy. It can be worked on. Okay. And messy doesn't mean dirty. That's true. Because I'm messy, but I'm not dirty. Right. I understand. Right? Yeah. So no. Well. Well what I know. She knows too much. first date, drinks or dinner? Both. Okay. We have to pick. Would you rather? Dinner. Okay. Why? See, 'cause I when I was dating, I never wanted to do dinner. Too long, too much of an investment for me. Well, I f but that's the point for me. So you're gonna invest if you're gonna wanna see me. Okay. Right? I mean if he wants to do a coffee date, fine. But if you suggest dinner, yeah. Okay. I kind of prefer that. Okay. Yeah. We have more time to talk and then more time. I have more time to see how he is. And the environment that we're in. How he treats me. Like, does he hold the door? Does take the check? How is he with the waiter? Like it's th there's more to learn. More time to study. Yeah. Him. Yes. Okay. Would you rather immediate chemistry or slow burn attractions? Slow burn. Slow burn, baby. For the long term, yeah. Someone who's a fantastic kisser, but a terrible conversationalist or great conversation, awful kisser. That's an awful question. Someone kissed my nose once. What? First kiss. What do you mean? Like just a peck on the nose, or he put his tongue up your nostrils? He like it was dark. it was a mistake. It was a mistake. He misaimed. It was a wrong angle. I was like, what the hell? But how do you And you're like Like what a a very wrong angle. That was not a good kiss. And a first one. But whatever. But then we dated for two years. So it was okay. His aim was good after that. Okay, but what did you say? I c what did you pick? I didn't pick. Great kisser, bad conversation, bad conversation, great kisser. No, we need the conversation. Great conversation, awful kisser. No, we don't we do an awful kisser. But can you teach kissing like you can teach sex? I feel I kind of no right? I feel I kinda no Why is that? Because kissing is so less so much intentional. It feels like the kissing should be an easier thing. We're not twelve. Like did haven't you learned by now? Yeah. Because sex depends on who you're with. Like you said before, not everybody likes the same thing in every way. But kissing. I mean, it's kind of more standard, maybe. There's nothing worse than a shitty kiss. Yeah. But also a shitty conversation. So I I'm not answering this question. Next. I'm out. That's all I had. Pass.