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Rare Intersex Southern Right Whale Discovered Through Genetic Testing · How To Protect The Ocean

• 0:00
  We're going to be
• 0:00
  talking about an
• 0:01
  interesting
• 0:01
  discovery on
• 0:02
  today's episode
• 0:02
  of the how to
• 0:03
  protect the ocean
• 0:03
  podcast. We're
• 0:04
  gonna be talking
• 0:04
  about intersex
• 0:06
  marine mammals.
• 0:07
  That's right.
• 0:08
  We're gonna be
• 0:08
  talking about
• 0:09
  marine mammals
• 0:09
  that have the X
• 0:10
  XY chromosome
• 0:10
  because there was
• 0:12
  a new discovery
• 0:13
  that came out in
• 0:14
  a paper where
• 0:15
  marine biologists
• 0:16
  did a genetic
• 0:17
  test and found
• 0:18
  that a southern
• 0:19
  right whale that
• 0:20
  was sampled back
• 0:21
  in 1989 has X
• 0:23
  XY chromosomes.
• 0:24
  This is very rare
• 0:25
  in marine
• 0:26
  mammals. It's
• 0:26
  something that we
• 0:27
  have to talk
• 0:27
  about and we're
• 0:28
  going to talk
• 0:28
  about today. So
• 0:29
  let's start the
• 0:29
  show. Hey
• 0:33
  everybody,
• 0:33
  welcome back to
• 0:33
  another exciting
• 0:34
  episode of the
• 0:35
  how to protect
• 0:35
  the ocean
• 0:35
  podcast. I'm your
• 0:36
  host,
• 0:36
  Andrew Lewin.
• 0:37
  And this is a
• 0:37
  podcast where you
• 0:38
  find out what's
• 0:38
  happening with
• 0:39
  the ocean, how
• 0:39
  you can speak
• 0:40
  up for the ocean,
• 0:41
  what you need to
• 0:41
  do to live for a
• 0:42
  better ocean by
• 0:43
  taking
• 0:43
  action on today's
• 0:45
  episode, we're
• 0:45
  going to be
• 0:45
  talking about all
• 0:46
  things marine
• 0:46
  mammals and
• 0:47
  genetic testing
• 0:48
  and what in the
• 0:49
  world is an
• 0:50
  intersex
• 0:51
  organism. This is
• 0:52
  going to be a lot
• 0:53
  of fun. I
• 0:53
  know there's
• 0:54
  a lot of
• 0:54
  political debates
• 0:55
  around this and
• 0:56
  political talk
• 0:56
  around what is
• 0:58
  intersex? What's
• 0:59
  transgender? What
• 1:00
  is all this stuff
• 1:01
  around, you know,
• 1:02
  different types
• 1:03
  of genders
• 1:03
  and stuff.
• 1:04
  This is not the
• 1:04
  case. It's not
• 1:05
  one of those
• 1:06
  topics. We are
• 1:07
  going to be
• 1:07
  talking about
• 1:07
  intersex.
• 1:08
  This is not the
• 1:09
  same as
• 1:10
  transgender. This
• 1:11
  is not the same
• 1:11
  as anything that
• 1:12
  we're
• 1:12
  just talking
• 1:13
  about genetic
• 1:14
  material that has
• 1:15
  XXY chromosomes.
• 1:17
  Normally, XX
• 1:18
  chromosomes, a
• 1:19
  female XY
• 1:20
  chromosome
• 1:20
  is a male. So
• 1:21
  we're talking
• 1:21
  about animals
• 1:22
  that have the
• 1:23
  genetic material
• 1:25
  of XXY as
• 1:26
  well as some
• 1:28
  have noticeably
• 1:29
  seen having
• 1:30
  different both
• 1:31
  reproductive
• 1:31
  organs present at
• 1:33
  the time of death
• 1:34
  when they're
• 1:34
  actually in the
• 1:35
  crops because
• 1:35
  that's when we
• 1:36
  actually see what
• 1:37
  is
• 1:37
  happening. So we're
• 1:37
  going to talk
• 1:38
  about that today.
• 1:39
  Like I said, this
• 1:40
  is not a
• 1:40
  political thing.
• 1:41
  This is
• 1:41
  just what we
• 1:42
  discovered in
• 1:42
  science. I want
• 1:43
  to get that right
• 1:44
  up there because
• 1:45
  I know people in
• 1:45
  the comments are
• 1:46
  going to be like,
• 1:46
  you're just
• 1:47
  pushing an agenda
• 1:47
  that says nothing
• 1:48
  to do with any
• 1:49
  political agenda.
• 1:50
  This is science.
• 1:51
  This is what's
• 1:51
  been discovered
• 1:52
  and what I think
• 1:52
  is something
• 1:53
  that's pretty
• 1:53
  cool to help us
• 1:54
  understand these
• 1:55
  animals.
• 1:56
  We're going to
• 1:56
  just talk about,
• 1:57
  you know, how
• 1:57
  this all came to
• 1:58
  be. So 1989,
• 1:59
  researchers
• 2:00
  collected
• 2:00
  skin samples
• 2:01
  from southern
• 2:02
  right whales off
• 2:03
  the Argentina's
• 2:04
  Valdez Peninsula
• 2:05
  to study the
• 2:06
  species genetic
• 2:06
  diversity.
• 2:07
  So they're just
• 2:07
  looking at
• 2:08
  genetic
• 2:08
  diversity.
• 2:09
  Decades later in
• 2:10
  2022, Carla
• 2:11
  Crossman, a
• 2:12
  graduate student
• 2:12
  from St.
• 2:13
  Mary's University
• 2:14
  in Halifax, Nova
• 2:15
  Scotia, go
• 2:15
  Canada, analyzed
• 2:16
  these samples and
• 2:17
  encountered an
• 2:18
  anomaly
• 2:18
  with one whale
• 2:19
  labeled EAU10B.
• 2:22
  This initial
• 2:23
  chromosome
• 2:23
  analysis
• 2:24
  suggested that
• 2:25
  EAU10B was female
• 2:26
  possessing two X
• 2:27
  chromosomes,
• 2:28
  which is typical
• 2:29
  of females.
• 2:30
  However, further
• 2:31
  testing revealed
• 2:32
  the presence of
• 2:33
  the SRY gene
• 2:34
  typically found
• 2:35
  in Y chromosome
• 2:36
  and associated
• 2:37
  with male
• 2:37
  development.
• 2:38
  So doing even
• 2:39
  more further
• 2:40
  testing and
• 2:40
  figuring out that
• 2:41
  there is a Y
• 2:42
  chromosome, they
• 2:43
  just found out
• 2:43
  this individual
• 2:44
  has a chromosome
• 2:45
  configuration
• 2:45
  of XXY
• 2:46
  identifying it as
• 2:47
  the first
• 2:48
  documented
• 2:48
  intersex southern
• 2:50
  right whale. This
• 2:51
  is pretty cool.
• 2:52
  And it's very
• 2:52
  rare to find
• 2:53
  these types of
• 2:54
  intersex
• 2:54
  individuals in
• 2:55
  marine mammals
• 2:56
  because we don't
• 2:56
  really get to see
• 2:57
  and get a lot of
• 2:58
  genetic testing
• 2:58
  in marine
• 2:59
  mammals.
• 3:00
  Although further
• 3:00
  research has
• 3:01
  discovered that
• 3:02
  we can take more
• 3:03
  tissue samples
• 3:03
  and stuff, but
• 3:04
  it's very
• 3:04
  difficult to work
• 3:05
  with marine
• 3:05
  mammals for
• 3:06
  obvious reasons.
• 3:06
  They're not a lot
• 3:07
  in captivity. A
• 3:08
  lot of them are
• 3:09
  in the wild. It's
• 3:09
  very difficult to
• 3:10
  get samples in
• 3:11
  general.
• 3:11
  We're just
• 3:12
  discovering
• 3:12
  patterns of the
• 3:13
  species and
• 3:14
  really getting to
• 3:15
  know those
• 3:15
  species. So more
• 3:16
  genetic testing,
• 3:17
  I'm sure, will
• 3:17
  reveal this if
• 3:18
  it's tested. The
• 3:19
  one thing in this
• 3:20
  study, which was
• 3:20
  found in Nautilus
• 3:21
  magazine, by the
• 3:22
  way, I'll put the
• 3:22
  link in the
• 3:23
  show notes.
• 3:24
  It was
• 3:24
  interesting to
• 3:25
  see that a lot of
• 3:27
  animals are
• 3:27
  tested for, say,
• 3:28
  the double X
• 3:29
  chromosome if
• 3:29
  they think that
• 3:30
  they're a female
• 3:31
  or a male. And
• 3:32
  then once you
• 3:32
  know that there's
• 3:33
  two X
• 3:33
  chromosomes, you
• 3:34
  don't do any
• 3:34
  further testing.
• 3:35
  It wasn't until
• 3:36
  Carla figured,
• 3:37
  hey, look,
• 3:37
  there's something
• 3:37
  here that
• 3:38
  suggests that
• 3:39
  this may also be
• 3:39
  male. And so they
• 3:41
  did further
• 3:41
  testing, tested
• 3:42
  for that Y gene
• 3:43
  and found out
• 3:43
  that is double X
• 3:44
  Y. That's a
• 3:45
  really cool thing
• 3:46
  to do. It doesn't
• 3:46
  happen often. It
• 3:47
  just goes. I
• 3:47
  wonder how many
• 3:48
  individuals that
• 3:49
  we missed that
• 3:50
  could have been
• 3:50
  intersex, but we
• 3:51
  didn't further
• 3:52
  test. Right. We
• 3:53
  just tested for
• 3:53
  one side. We
• 3:54
  said, oh, it's
• 3:54
  got an X Y
• 3:55
  chromosome or
• 3:56
  it's got a double
• 3:57
  X chromosome. It
• 3:57
  must be females,
• 3:58
  must be male,
• 3:59
  depending on the
• 3:59
  chromosome
• 4:00
  configuration.
• 4:01
  Really simple
• 4:01
  stuff. Sometimes
• 4:02
  it's missed in
• 4:03
  science because, you know, why bother with that?
• 4:04
  You just assume
• 4:06
  that's going to
• 4:06
  happen. This is
• 4:06
  why we test as we
• 4:07
  continue to test.
• 4:08
  So kudos to Carla
• 4:09
  for doing that
• 4:10
  and really
• 4:10
  opening the eyes
• 4:11
  of other
• 4:11
  scientists to be
• 4:12
  like, hey, maybe
• 4:13
  we do see more
• 4:13
  intersect
• 4:14
  individuals, but
• 4:15
  we just don't
• 4:15
  know. We just
• 4:16
  don't test for
• 4:16
  them. So maybe
• 4:17
  that will be
• 4:18
  something to test
• 4:19
  for in the future
• 4:20
  as well as the
• 4:21
  other samples
• 4:21
  that have been
• 4:22
  preserved of that
• 4:23
  population to see
• 4:24
  if that is
• 4:24
  something that is
• 4:25
  normal. Now these
• 4:26
  species that are
• 4:27
  intersect tend
• 4:28
  not to be
• 4:29
  reproductive. So
• 4:30
  some of the
• 4:30
  reproductive
• 4:31
  organs that have
• 4:31
  been seen in the
• 4:32
  past, like in bottlenose dolphin, they're not.
• 4:33
  They've been seen
• 4:35
  in porpoises.
• 4:36
  They've been seen
• 4:36
  in seals often
• 4:38
  have both
• 4:39
  reproductive
• 4:39
  organs, but
• 4:40
  they're not fully
• 4:41
  developed. So
• 4:41
  indicating that
• 4:42
  they're not
• 4:43
  reproductive.
• 4:43
  However, we don't
• 4:44
  know if they're
• 4:45
  actually
• 4:45
  reproductive or
• 4:45
  not. We just
• 4:46
  assume based on
• 4:47
  the development
• 4:47
  that we see in
• 4:48
  front of us and
• 4:49
  scientists see in
• 4:49
  front of us. I've
• 4:50
  never done this
• 4:50
  type of study
• 4:51
  before. That's
• 4:52
  why I'm talking
• 4:52
  about it because
• 4:53
  I think it's kind
• 4:53
  of cool. But so
• 4:54
  that's something
• 4:55
  that we need to
• 4:56
  find out more
• 4:56
  about. Right.
• 4:57
  Because intersect
• 4:58
  species have been
• 4:59
  around for quite
• 4:59
  some time. We've
• 5:00
  seen them in
• 5:01
  freshwater systems are actually prolific. Freshwater systems are actually very important.
• 5:01
  Freshwater
• 5:01
  systems are
• 5:02
  actually prolific
• 5:02
  freshwater
• 5:03
  systems studies
• 5:04
  by the US
• 5:05
  Geological Survey
• 5:05
  revealed that the
• 5:07
  male smallmouth
• 5:07
  bass in
• 5:08
  Pennsylvania is
• 5:09
  Suska Hana. Suska
• 5:10
  Hana. I think
• 5:11
  it's Suska Hana.
• 5:12
  Maybe I'm not
• 5:12
  sure the
• 5:13
  pronunciation of
• 5:13
  that. I apologize
• 5:14
  in Delaware and
• 5:15
  Ohio River basins
• 5:16
  exhibited
• 5:17
  immature eggs in
• 5:18
  their testes.
• 5:19
  This intersex
• 5:20
  condition is
• 5:21
  believed to
• 5:21
  result from
• 5:22
  exposure to
• 5:22
  endocrine
• 5:23
  disrupting
• 5:23
  chemicals. So
• 5:24
  things that
• 5:24
  happen in the
• 5:25
  environment such
• 5:26
  as pesticides and
• 5:27
  hormones that
• 5:28
  enter waterways
• 5:28
  through agricultural runoff and water.
• 5:29
  Through
• 5:29
  agricultural
• 5:30
  runoff and
• 5:31
  wastewater
• 5:31
  discharges. So
• 5:32
  amphipods and
• 5:34
  environmental
• 5:34
  stressors have
• 5:34
  also been
• 5:35
  discovered. So in
• 5:36
  the marine
• 5:36
  environment
• 5:36
  intersects
• 5:37
  occurrences have
• 5:38
  been observed in
• 5:39
  species like the
• 5:40
  amphipod. The
• 5:41
  Aquino Gameras
• 5:42
  marineis long
• 5:43
  term monitoring
• 5:44
  in Northwest
• 5:45
  Brittany recorded
• 5:46
  intersex
• 5:46
  individuals and
• 5:47
  frequencies
• 5:48
  ranging between
• 5:48
  0.87% to 12%.
• 5:51
  Notably the
• 5:52
  incidence of
• 5:53
  intersex increase
• 5:54
  with distance
• 5:55
  from the sea.
• 5:56
  Suggested
• 5:56
  environmental
• 5:57
  factors including
• 5:58
  endocrine
• 5:58
  disrupting
• 5:59
  compounds and
• 6:00
  freshwater
• 6:00
  stressors may
• 6:01
  play a role in
• 6:02
  triggering
• 6:02
  intersex
• 6:03
  conditions. So
• 6:04
  again being close
• 6:05
  to humans not
• 6:07
  always great for
• 6:07
  animals. So
• 6:08
  having those
• 6:09
  endocrine
• 6:09
  disruptors
• 6:10
  present can
• 6:11
  really change
• 6:12
  somebody and
• 6:13
  change an animal.
• 6:14
  We're not just
• 6:14
  being facetious with that.
• 6:15
  That's just not
• 6:16
  me saying that.
• 6:16
  That's true. This
• 6:17
  is what the
• 6:17
  evidence kind of
• 6:18
  shows. So we know
• 6:19
  that there are
• 6:20
  animals that are
• 6:21
  out there in the
• 6:21
  marine
• 6:22
  environment that
• 6:22
  will change sexes
• 6:23
  depending on the
• 6:24
  environment. So
• 6:25
  some fish like
• 6:26
  clownfish will
• 6:27
  change their sex
• 6:28
  if there's no
• 6:29
  other females
• 6:30
  around. So a male
• 6:31
  will turn to a
• 6:31
  female so that it
• 6:32
  can reproduce and
• 6:33
  it can
• 6:33
  have babies.
• 6:34
  The survival of
• 6:35
  the fittest is
• 6:35
  the genetic
• 6:36
  material that
• 6:37
  continues to
• 6:38
  persist in
• 6:39
  clownfish that
• 6:39
  allows them to
• 6:40
  survive for so
• 6:41
  long. So if it's
• 6:41
  just males that
• 6:42
  are around and
• 6:43
  there are no
• 6:43
  females one male
• 6:44
  will turn into a
• 6:45
  female and then
• 6:46
  that female will
• 6:47
  reproduce with
• 6:48
  all the males and
• 6:48
  then you know
• 6:49
  they'll have
• 6:49
  their babies
• 6:50
  their larva and
• 6:51
  it'll grow into
• 6:52
  some lots more clownfish.
• 6:53
  It's really
• 6:54
  interesting to
• 6:55
  hear these
• 6:55
  different types
• 6:56
  of evolutionary
• 6:57
  factors that help
• 6:59
  animals survive
• 7:00
  in the
• 7:00
  environment
• 7:01
  whether it's a
• 7:01
  freshwater or
• 7:02
  marine
• 7:02
  environment. So
• 7:03
  that's always
• 7:04
  something that is
• 7:05
  interesting. Now
• 7:06
  there are
• 7:07
  different ways to
• 7:08
  detect intersex.
• 7:09
  So it could be
• 7:09
  from genetic
• 7:10
  material which
• 7:10
  doesn't always
• 7:11
  happen or it
• 7:11
  could just be
• 7:12
  from mixed
• 7:13
  animal tissue
• 7:13
  such as ovarian
• 7:14
  and testicular
• 7:15
  tissue within the
• 7:16
  actual bodies.
• 7:17
  The individuals
• 7:18
  have either
• 7:18
  underdeveloped or
• 7:19
  nonfunctional
• 7:20
  reproductive
• 7:20
  organs which
• 7:21
  suggest they are
• 7:22
  unlikely to
• 7:23
  produce. The EAU
• 7:24
  10B which is the
• 7:25
  intersex southern
• 7:26
  right whale that
• 7:27
  really capped off
• 7:28
  this story
• 7:28
  discovered in
• 7:29
  1999. They had
• 7:30
  the XXY
• 7:31
  chromosomal set
• 7:32
  up but there's no
• 7:33
  indication that
• 7:34
  it reproduced and
• 7:35
  this chromosomal
• 7:35
  combination is
• 7:36
  typically
• 7:36
  associated with
• 7:37
  infertility and
• 7:38
  other mammals
• 7:38
  including humans.
• 7:40
  So this is not
• 7:40
  just something
• 7:41
  that happens in
• 7:41
  southern right whales or in southern right whales.
• 7:43
  It can actually
• 7:44
  happen in
• 7:45
  intersects in fin
• 7:46
  whales was
• 7:46
  reported with
• 7:47
  both seses and
• 7:48
  uterus but no
• 7:49
  functional
• 7:49
  reproductive
• 7:50
  output was
• 7:51
  recorded in
• 7:52
  harbor purposes
• 7:52
  as I mentioned
• 7:53
  earlier some
• 7:54
  intersex
• 7:54
  individuals had
• 7:55
  both male and
• 7:56
  female tissue but
• 7:56
  again no evidence
• 7:57
  supporting that
• 7:58
  reproduction
• 7:58
  was found.
• 7:59
  So it's a hard
• 8:00
  thing to find out
• 8:01
  because we don't
• 8:02
  really see when
• 8:03
  males and females
• 8:04
  reproduce on the
• 8:05
  regular. We do
• 8:06
  have that video
• 8:07
  that I talked
• 8:07
  about a couple
• 8:08
  months ago where
• 8:09
  you know somebody
• 8:10
  caught it on
• 8:10
  photographs a
• 8:11
  series of
• 8:11
  photographs of
• 8:12
  two humpback
• 8:13
  whales
• 8:13
  reproducing
• 8:14
  mating off the
• 8:15
  coast of Maui and
• 8:15
  so that was kind
• 8:16
  of cool to see.
• 8:17
  But we don't
• 8:18
  often get that
• 8:19
  and a lot of
• 8:19
  times the
• 8:20
  intersex
• 8:20
  conditions are
• 8:21
  only discovered
• 8:21
  after death
• 8:22
  during the crop
• 8:23
  seas. So
• 8:23
  scientists rarely
• 8:24
  have a chance to
• 8:25
  study the
• 8:25
  behavior or
• 8:26
  reproduction over
• 8:27
  time. So it's
• 8:27
  really difficult to see. But I just think that's a good thing.
• 8:28
  I just thought it
• 8:29
  was a cool thing
• 8:30
  to bring to you
• 8:31
  as a way to
• 8:32
  understand
• 8:33
  species
• 8:33
  understand what
• 8:34
  is happening in
• 8:35
  the oceans how we
• 8:36
  are affecting the
• 8:37
  oceans and how
• 8:38
  we're affecting
• 8:38
  the species that
• 8:39
  live in it
• 8:39
  through
• 8:40
  disrupting
• 8:40
  endocrine systems
• 8:41
  that can change
• 8:42
  the hormonal
• 8:43
  balance within
• 8:44
  animals but also
• 8:44
  the way they
• 8:45
  naturally evolve
• 8:46
  into being able
• 8:47
  in some species
• 8:48
  being able to
• 8:48
  change from male
• 8:49
  to female and
• 8:50
  there's also the
• 8:51
  case of
• 8:51
  pharmaceuticals
• 8:52
  which again
• 8:53
  probably
• 8:53
  endocrine
• 8:54
  disruptors that
• 8:55
  get into our
• 8:55
  river systems
• 8:56
  just from what we've been ingesting.
• 8:57
  Right. This is
• 8:59
  like typical
• 8:59
  stuff that we
• 9:00
  ingest whether it
• 9:01
  be you know pain
• 9:01
  pills whether it
• 9:02
  be reproductive
• 9:03
  blocking pills or
• 9:04
  anything like
• 9:05
  that that can go
• 9:06
  through our
• 9:06
  system and that
• 9:07
  will actually end
• 9:08
  up in the river
• 9:08
  systems like
• 9:09
  through a
• 9:09
  plumbing in the
• 9:10
  river systems
• 9:10
  that can affect
• 9:11
  fish that's why
• 9:12
  we see a lot of
• 9:13
  freshwater fish
• 9:14
  being affected by
• 9:15
  this either
• 9:15
  intersex or other
• 9:16
  type of I say
• 9:18
  just differences
• 9:19
  in morphologies.
• 9:20
  So it's a cool
• 9:21
  study to look at.
• 9:22
  It's really great
• 9:22
  to identify and
• 9:23
  talk about it.
• 9:24
  We're only just
• 9:25
  scratching the
• 9:25
  surface with this
• 9:26
  type of stuff as
• 9:27
  we normally are
• 9:28
  when we're
• 9:28
  discovering
• 9:28
  something new.
• 9:29
  But I thought it
• 9:30
  was really great
• 9:30
  to bring it to
• 9:31
  you. I'd love to
• 9:31
  hear your
• 9:31
  thoughts on this.
• 9:32
  Leave a comment
• 9:33
  below if you're
• 9:33
  watching this on
• 9:34
  YouTube.
• 9:35
  And if you are
• 9:36
  listening to this
• 9:36
  on another
• 9:36
  platform, please
• 9:37
  hit me up on
• 9:38
  Instagram at how
• 9:39
  to protect the
• 9:40
  ocean. That's at
• 9:41
  how to protect
• 9:41
  the ocean. I want
• 9:42
  to thank you so
• 9:42
  much for joining
• 9:43
  me on today's
• 9:43
  episode of the
• 9:44
  how to protect
• 9:44
  the ocean
• 9:44
  podcast. Have a
• 9:45
  great day. We'll
• 9:45
  talk to you in a
• 9:46
  happy
• 9:47
  conservation.