Latest / Founder Talk with Alex Sheridan / I Left “Founder Freedom” For W-2 Employment And Got My Family Back (with Nate Cheviron)

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I Left “Founder Freedom” For W-2 Employment And Got My Family Back (with Nate Cheviron) · Founder Talk with Alex Sheridan

• 0:00
  So Nate Chevron, welcome to the Founder Talk podcast.
• 0:03
  We'll just get right into it, man.
• 0:04
  Cheers. Cheers.
• 0:05
  Glad to have you on the show. Glad to be here.
• 0:06
  And I'll introduce you as a Co founder, as a former Co founder
• 0:09
  of Chevron Enterprises, right? Is that right?
• 0:12
  I'm obviously we're going to get into it.
• 0:14
  I'm excited for this episode because it's just wildly
• 0:17
  different than what we've done in the past, for sure.
• 0:18
  Because you are a founder of multiple different businesses,
• 0:21
  had a bunch of success, sold a couple of them, closed a couple
• 0:24
  of them, and then decided to get back into the W2 world and
• 0:28
  become an employee. So that's a that's a cool
• 0:30
  journey, man. And and it's one that I think
• 0:32
  people need to hear more of. Yeah.
• 0:34
  I think there's people out here that will get a lot of value
• 0:36
  from it, whether they're going to be continue to be a founder
• 0:38
  or whether they're going to, you know, potentially do something
• 0:40
  else or sell their company or whatever it is for sure, for
• 0:43
  sure. Excited to be, yeah, excited to
• 0:45
  be in it. There's a lot of scar tissue,
• 0:46
  you know, from, you know, from the last few years and for sure.
• 0:49
  But it's, yeah, it's really good.
• 0:52
  So take us back. So me and you obviously kind of
• 0:54
  known each other a little bit from the corporate world.
• 0:56
  We worked for a huge multi billion dollar company.
• 0:59
  So I think you were there for like 12 something years around
• 1:01
  there. Walk me through what you you
• 1:03
  decided to leave that world to get into the entrepreneurial
• 1:06
  world. Yes, I'm curious to hear that.
• 1:08
  Yeah. So I'll, I'll actually step back
• 1:12
  even before that. Cool.
• 1:13
  Right. So, you know, born and raised
• 1:16
  Fort Wayne, IN. Yeah, Right.
• 1:18
  Went to Purdue, Fort Wayne. That's where I studied.
• 1:20
  Actually. I have a physics degree, Physics
• 1:22
  and math degree. Good Midwestern boy.
• 1:24
  I know, right? Hard working, just, you know,
• 1:26
  that's. Right.
• 1:27
  Yeah, that's right. I'm married to my college
• 1:30
  sweetheart. That's right.
• 1:31
  So we met early on and when I graduated and I was didn't want
• 1:36
  to be a high school physics teacher.
• 1:37
  I had a job, you know, offer from that.
• 1:39
  Didn't want to go on to, you know, grad school and live the
• 1:42
  life of like The Big Bang theory or something.
• 1:44
  And so I said, let's go get in the sales and always, you know,
• 1:48
  talkative person and everything else.
• 1:50
  And so I was looking for like a sales engineering application
• 1:53
  engineering type job. Went to a company called
• 1:55
  Aerotech and to look for a job and they're like, hey, we really
• 1:59
  don't hire that skill set here, you know, but we're hiring an
• 2:04
  engineer and recruiter, you know, and we only promote from
• 2:08
  within and, you know, the sales opportunity and everything else
• 2:11
  and interviewed with them and fell in love with the people,
• 2:13
  the culture. And I was there for a better
• 2:16
  part of a decade, right. And it was, it was, it was a
• 2:19
  really good journey. More a lot of different hats in
• 2:22
  that organization. And we really got my my PhD in
• 2:25
  business, if you will, you know, from that company and just
• 2:29
  learned so much not just what what it was internally, but also
• 2:33
  you had access to all of these other companies and all of these
• 2:36
  other industries and saw how just, you know, what high
• 2:40
  performing teams look like. And then you got this, you got
• 2:44
  the skill set say like, Hey, really all it is is just putting
• 2:47
  the right people together and you get the right people
• 2:50
  together moving in the right direction.
• 2:51
  You can really do anything right.
• 2:53
  And it was 2018 started my companies officially in 2020,
• 3:00
  but 2018 I I just had this, I was walking down the hallway and
• 3:05
  it wasn't like an egotistical thought.
• 3:07
  It was like, I think I could be the best in the world at
• 3:09
  building teams and, and I'm like, let's do this right?
• 3:13
  And then, and then I'm like, OK, let's keep going.
• 3:15
  I'm like, why? Why do it?
• 3:17
  Why do it for someone else? Why not just for myself?
• 3:20
  And Fast forward to 2019, Memorial Day of 2019, I climbed
• 3:25
  Mount Hood out in Oregon and summited Hood with my cousin
• 3:30
  Austin Chevron. So we then on that trip we both
• 3:35
  summited the mountain together and we ultimately decided they
• 3:38
  let's go into business together. And, and so Fast forward a
• 3:42
  little bit further, December of 2019, he, we, we basically
• 3:51
  partnered and started our first company together.
• 3:53
  I was still within Allegis Group and so.
• 3:57
  It was a side hustle for you it. Was a side hustle.
• 3:58
  Start of mine, man. Yeah.
• 3:59
  Let me ask you something though. I'll pause you real quick on the
• 4:02
  story. So you had this thought like I
• 4:04
  want to, I'm going to, you know, be the top leader or be the best
• 4:07
  leader I can be. You know, I thought I have a lot
• 4:09
  more potential potentially to do to put out there.
• 4:11
  But was there another factor that made you want to not do it
• 4:13
  for the current company? Because you're there for, you
• 4:15
  know, over that point, what, 10 plus years, you got a career,
• 4:18
  you probably have company stock. You know, I'm you're kind of a
• 4:20
  made man at that point. If you've done well with this
• 4:22
  company, like why risk at all and be like, you know, I'm not
• 4:25
  going to do it here. I'm going to go off on my own.
• 4:27
  You know, I, I can narrow it down into one word control.
• 4:33
  You know, I, I saw a path. I wanted to continue to grow and
• 4:36
  everything else and in the company was shifting at the
• 4:38
  time, you know, in terms of just operating companies and
• 4:41
  everything else and very grateful for that company.
• 4:44
  They're just making a lot bigger decisions, You know, then you
• 4:47
  know what they did with Nate Chevron, right?
• 4:48
  And, and so seeing that and knowing that it's like, you know
• 4:53
  what, I want to continue to grow, continue to do the things
• 4:56
  I I know I'm, I'm built to do. And, and so I'm like, I think
• 5:01
  it, I think it's time to go on my own and.
• 5:05
  How did your What did your wife say?
• 5:06
  She was nervous. My parents were to say.
• 5:10
  Oh my God, she was nervous. Yeah, cuz at the time we were,
• 5:13
  we just had our third child. And so she's like, actually,
• 5:19
  when I went all into the, the companies and everything and,
• 5:22
  and left, you know, left Allegis Group, you know, she goes, hey,
• 5:26
  when do we get paid? Like it doesn't always work
• 5:30
  like. That yeah, yeah.
• 5:31
  That's funny. So, yeah, she was very nervous
• 5:35
  and I kind of pulled her along, you know, into the vision and
• 5:38
  the dream and everything else and.
• 5:41
  But. But yeah.
• 5:42
  So it was. Yeah, it was.
• 5:45
  Yeah, we did. We went all in actually during
• 5:47
  COVID was interesting, you know, was a side hustle.
• 5:49
  But because of, you know, the nature of what happened during
• 5:53
  that time, everything shut down. You weren't able to go in.
• 5:55
  And I was traveling a lot for, you know, for, for work and I
• 6:00
  wasn't able to travel anymore. And I didn't hide anything.
• 6:03
  But I basically did both same time and and was able to put
• 6:09
  myself in a position to support our family full time and
• 6:12
  beginning of 20/20/21 went all in.
• 6:15
  Now what? What were you doing at the time
• 6:17
  for the business? So we went into real estate.
• 6:19
  So my cousin Austin, top performing real estate agent,
• 6:23
  you know, in all of Indiana's, we then partnered on a platform
• 6:27
  Exp Realty. So it's a an independent real
• 6:30
  estate brokerage and the technology company you can
• 6:32
  basically build off, you could build up your, you know,
• 6:35
  boutique brokerage or team, if you will, off of that platform.
• 6:39
  And so we just partnered with them to do that.
• 6:40
  So our first company was what we called the Chevron Group, which
• 6:44
  is a real estate team and and I was kind of putting together the
• 6:47
  team and the mechanics of the team and the structure and kind
• 6:50
  of behind the scenes. Then we put Austin as the face
• 6:52
  of the company naturally transitioning from a high
• 6:55
  producer to a team leader and then we ran a Co team lead
• 6:58
  model, you know from there. And then when we went into 21,
• 7:02
  we basically took all the services that we had on our team
• 7:04
  and then made each one an independent company.
• 7:07
  So we offered just back end, you know, transaction support.
• 7:11
  So anytime a deal would go pending, it was like an on call
• 7:14
  assistant, if you will just do all the paperwork, make sure
• 7:16
  everything's on time, on task. That company was called Cast
• 7:19
  transaction services. You know, we had a, we coached
• 7:23
  and trained all of our agents and so we then spun that off to
• 7:27
  make it into Chevron coaching. And so we had the Chevron group,
• 7:29
  Chevron coaching cast and then. 1099 real estate agents or.
• 7:34
  Everyone's everyone was 1099 got it cool.
• 7:37
  Everyone was 1099 and then but through but then we had our own
• 7:41
  support staff that were on W2 for us.
• 7:44
  So any any employee that we had say through cast, they were all,
• 7:48
  you know, W2 coordinators got it is what we call them.
• 7:52
  So transaction coordinators. And so, yeah, basically what was
• 7:54
  a cost center, we just flipped it around and made it a profit
• 7:58
  center. And, you know, because there
• 8:00
  were people who was at the time everything was siloed to, you
• 8:05
  know, if there was a real estate agent or someone who wanted our
• 8:08
  service, but they just didn't want to switch brokerages or, or
• 8:11
  come on to our team for whatever reason.
• 8:13
  But they still wanted access to our coaching, you know, or they
• 8:16
  still wanted access to the the transaction coordinators or, you
• 8:19
  know, whatever we had. And so we just compartmentalize
• 8:22
  it all. And then and then that way it
• 8:25
  was both internal and external and, and then everything was
• 8:28
  overlapped to and then off the Exp platform.
• 8:32
  We were able to start up different teams throughout the
• 8:35
  country. And then so we were operating in
• 8:38
  a few different locations. And so not just in Fort Wayne,
• 8:41
  IN, but our our second largest 1 is in the Virginia Beach area,
• 8:47
  Virginia. We had a lot of agents, a couple
• 8:49
  up here in the Chicagoland area and just kind of spread out
• 8:52
  everywhere, so. So 2021 you put in your notice
• 8:55
  and you actually leave the full time job to go all in on this?
• 8:58
  Yep for sure. What was that like?
• 9:00
  That was going back to the mountain climbing, right?
• 9:04
  You know, so I don't know if you have you ever climbed mountains
• 9:07
  or, or anything. So you know, what if you're like
• 9:09
  standing on the edge of a Cliff or the house or something like
• 9:11
  that, if you're on the roof, you feel that exposure, right?
• 9:14
  You know, you're not going to fall.
• 9:16
  You feel confident that you're good, but you feel that
• 9:18
  exposure. That's what it was like.
• 9:20
  And you know, we'd set up, we were still living in our very
• 9:23
  first house, you know, that we bought, you know, from when my
• 9:25
  wife and I first got married. And so our expenses are really
• 9:29
  low, which which allowed us to make all the investments in the
• 9:32
  company that we did. So our lifestyle was, was at a
• 9:37
  point was very manageable. I didn't need to pay myself that
• 9:40
  much, right? You know, so we were able to put
• 9:41
  all the dollars back into the company and invest in that, you
• 9:44
  know, pay in other times where my assistant was making more
• 9:46
  than me, you know, and so and other times obviously the exact
• 9:49
  opposite. But but yeah, it was, it was
• 9:54
  nerve racking, but I was, you know, like I'm, I'm all in, you
• 9:57
  know, we're building something here that's great.
• 9:59
  And, you know, we were, yeah, we were doing some, some really
• 10:03
  good things. And so I think so, yeah.
• 10:05
  If you ever look up the Chevron group on is it Real trends?
• 10:09
  Real trends is a, they basically monitor all like real estate
• 10:13
  brokerages and teams, you know, throughout the world really.
• 10:18
  And, you know, I think we were a top 20 team in North America for
• 10:22
  three years running. Four years.
• 10:23
  Wow. Yeah, yeah.
• 10:24
  So I think #3 the highest we got was #3 in the nation, right out
• 10:29
  of Fort Wayne, IN, three in the nation.
• 10:31
  Fort Wayne. I know, I know.
• 10:33
  And yeah, and that was in 20/20/23.
• 10:39
  And then after that year we decided to shut the team down
• 10:41
  and everyone thought we were crazy and like, what are you
• 10:46
  doing? And.
• 10:48
  Let me, let me take you back real quick that yeah.
• 10:50
  So 2021 to 2022-2023, yeah. Are you now starting to make
• 10:54
  more money than you did in corporate?
• 10:56
  Are you starting to see the ROI a little bit or is it still even
• 10:58
  or? Yeah.
• 10:59
  Yeah, I I would say, you know, my take home I you know, the
• 11:03
  amount of money that I was bringing in, right, yes,
• 11:05
  definitely more right, but your expenses keep going up too,
• 11:08
  right And you know, we were just talking about the studio, right?
• 11:12
  You start, you know, you have a camera here and you know this
• 11:15
  lighting here's a great idea. Missed that one, right.
• 11:18
  And so the money just works a little different, you know,
• 11:20
  from, you know, when you're self-employed to, you know, the
• 11:23
  W2 world. But but yes, yeah, we were
• 11:27
  making, we were making more money and.
• 11:31
  And did you feel like you were kind of living that potential?
• 11:33
  Because I remember the one of the biggest reasons you left
• 11:36
  because you wanted to be a leader and expand your potential
• 11:39
  as a leader and lead more people on your own terms.
• 11:41
  How did you feel in regards to that the first couple years?
• 11:44
  Yeah, it was, it's, you know what's interesting?
• 11:48
  You know, the word I attached to was was control.
• 11:51
  And there was definitely, definitely had so much more
• 11:56
  control. But all of my companies were all
• 11:59
  partnerships, right? And, and so every single one of
• 12:03
  those partnerships, it's almost like a, it's almost like a
• 12:05
  marriage and, but it's a highly conditional marriage And, and so
• 12:10
  I have to perform and vice versa, right?
• 12:14
  And, and so there's, there's definitely a, a high sense of
• 12:17
  control, but it's, you still got to be on the same page with your
• 12:20
  team. You know, you don't have like,
• 12:23
  you know, reckless abandonment or I'm just signing checks and,
• 12:26
  you know, not accountable to anyone or anything.
• 12:30
  You know, there was still high communication there.
• 12:33
  And, and then just with my wife as well, right?
• 12:35
  Like, hey, these are some decisions that we're making
• 12:36
  right now, you know, make sense for the business and everything
• 12:39
  else, but this is what it means personally.
• 12:40
  And, and so, so it's just, it just took a different form.
• 12:45
  You know, that was actually one of the craziest things when I
• 12:49
  went from, when I went from corporate America to being
• 12:54
  self-employed, it was like the floodgates opened and, and there
• 12:57
  were no like extreme boundaries, you know, on, you know, on what
• 13:02
  you what you should be doing and what you're allowed to do and
• 13:05
  what you're not allowed to do. It's like everything's open and
• 13:08
  it all hits you in the face at the same time.
• 13:10
  And it's almost like once a person goes, like once they
• 13:13
  retire, how they talk about they have no time.
• 13:15
  It's the same thing. And so.
• 13:18
  It's a blessing and a curse too, because it's like, for sure in
• 13:20
  what? I went to the same thing in 2020
• 13:21
  when I left and in my full now do the business full time.
• 13:25
  Yeah. I remember being like, wow, you
• 13:27
  have so much time and freedom and control, and this is great.
• 13:30
  But at the same time, that's actually your biggest challenge.
• 13:32
  Yes. Because now you're like, well,
• 13:33
  where do I spend my time? And no one's going to check on
• 13:36
  me. I don't have two meetings a day
• 13:37
  now, which I didn't like doing anyways.
• 13:38
  But but but, you know, it's just like this whole world opens up,
• 13:42
  the floodgates open up, and now you have to be really smart with
• 13:45
  your time and discipline because no one's going to come ask you.
• 13:48
  You don't got to report to anyone.
• 13:49
  You know, it's like you control your own destiny.
• 13:51
  But that is the opportunity. It's also the challenge.
• 13:53
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, that was that was
• 13:57
  tough. And, you know, at the time when
• 14:00
  we first started, like I said, we had we had three kids.
• 14:02
  We have 6 now. That's incredible.
• 14:05
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hence part of the reason why I,
• 14:07
  you know, got out right. He started with three and ended
• 14:09
  with six. That's wild.
• 14:11
  And but yeah. And that's.
• 14:15
  And so my cousin Austin master when it comes to structure and
• 14:20
  execution and, and I think he only had one, one job in his
• 14:25
  life, right as like a as like a busboy.
• 14:27
  And after two weeks he got fired.
• 14:30
  Nice. You know, that was like when he
• 14:32
  was in high school. And so all he knows is, is
• 14:35
  self-employment and you know, on how to, how to structure your
• 14:39
  time and how to, I mean, the guy's a genius when it comes to
• 14:42
  like time and money. And, you know, and I tend to be
• 14:45
  a little bit more, you know, free spirited, free floating
• 14:48
  kind of go with the flow a little bit of like just feeling,
• 14:50
  reading the room, feeling the momentum.
• 14:52
  And, you know, he's the exact opposite.
• 14:55
  And so we worked well together and there was a lot of healthy
• 14:59
  tension and, and, and we grew up next door to each other.
• 15:02
  I mean, he's my brother, you know, he's my cousin, he's my
• 15:04
  brother. And, and so, you know, when we
• 15:08
  so knowing each other very well, but when we shared an office,
• 15:11
  you know, like it's like, oh, wow, this is how you're really
• 15:15
  wired, you know? And so there was always, there's
• 15:20
  always some like just, there was a lot of like just really
• 15:23
  healthy tension, thoughtful disagreements and, and we were
• 15:27
  both aligned, right? We would argue all the time,
• 15:29
  right? And we would never really see
• 15:32
  eye to eye in a very positive way, you know?
• 15:35
  But that's why we were able to do what we did, and it was
• 15:38
  great. So from the outside looking in,
• 15:41
  it looks like you're living the dream for sure.
• 15:43
  You left corporate, you're pursuing your new business
• 15:45
  opportunity, you're an entrepreneur, you're bringing in
• 15:48
  more money. You've got this control now, as
• 15:50
  you say, but it wasn't quite the dream.
• 15:53
  Exactly. Yeah.
• 15:54
  So I someone said one time he's like, yeah, I started with four
• 15:58
  people in a dream and then now I have 64 in a nightmare and I'm
• 16:04
  like, yeah, that's stuff like that's happened.
• 16:06
  So Oh my God, it's wow. And and so, you know, kind of
• 16:11
  going on the personal journey, right.
• 16:14
  You know, there's, there's a saying, my good friend Don
• 16:18
  Hobbs, I don't know if you know that name.
• 16:20
  No marketing genius who's around, around for a very, very
• 16:25
  long time, primarily in the real estate industry.
• 16:29
  You know, he said, Hey, the purpose of a business is to
• 16:31
  support the lifestyle of the owner, right?
• 16:33
  That's the purpose of the business.
• 16:35
  And, and so when you, if that definition is true, you know,
• 16:40
  the, you know, the business was not supporting my lifestyle
• 16:43
  completely. And, and that was, that was a
• 16:47
  hard thing. And I and I didn't know it in
• 16:49
  the moment. And, you know, we in 2023, we
• 16:52
  had twins and you know, it was, and so that was right when, you
• 17:00
  know, everything was kind of going.
• 17:01
  But at January of 23, the twins were born.
• 17:04
  And, you know, one of the twins, we had to go down to Riley
• 17:08
  Hospital in Indianapolis, IN for about a month.
• 17:12
  And so we were separated from the other twin.
• 17:14
  The other, you know, so basically four of the kids were
• 17:17
  were at home. You know, my parents, my in laws
• 17:19
  helped a ton. You know, you know, Nicole, my
• 17:23
  wife, you know, she was, you know, with, with Evie, one of
• 17:26
  the twins. And yeah, but we were gone for a
• 17:29
  little bit. It was, it was a really tough
• 17:31
  time. And then and then there was a
• 17:32
  six month period where, you know, Evie had a she was on, you
• 17:37
  know, oxygen. She had a feeding tube and
• 17:40
  everything else. And she's great now, right?
• 17:42
  You know, she's real happy to go lucky and everything else.
• 17:43
  They just turned 3 Awesome. And it's so so that was that was
• 17:49
  tough, right? You know, but again, being
• 17:53
  having the freedom that I had and, and the team that I had
• 17:55
  around me, I was able to step away, you know, from the
• 17:58
  operation and, and I'd kind of designed everything to run
• 18:01
  without me, right. And, and so, so that was so it
• 18:07
  was good from that sense. And then, you know, then when I
• 18:10
  got back into it, you know, I was just off and on through,
• 18:14
  through that time and, and, you know, we always had a saying,
• 18:17
  you know, between me and my cousin and the, and kind of bled
• 18:19
  through our entire organization, family first, family always 1st.
• 18:23
  And, you know, there's no amount of money, time, whatever that's
• 18:26
  going to take me away from that. So that's how we always
• 18:28
  prioritized everything. And so, but it was definitely,
• 18:32
  there was definitely a, a, a pole there, you know, of OK,
• 18:36
  that the business isn't needing me.
• 18:37
  And then I'm not showing up for, you know, for, you know, Austin,
• 18:41
  my cousin and the rest of the team, you know, the way that I
• 18:43
  need to. And this is more of a mental
• 18:46
  thing, you know, on, on my end, you know, in the, the real
• 18:49
  estate teams performing at a very high level.
• 18:51
  I mean, that was the year we were #3 in the, you know, in
• 18:53
  America. And and then, you know, then
• 18:57
  you'll Fast forward a little bit, you know, we decide later
• 18:59
  that year to and basically consolidate the team back into
• 19:04
  the, the Exp model. And some of them kind of formed
• 19:07
  their own teams and or moved on to others.
• 19:09
  And then we were just kind of went into a support role, but we
• 19:12
  went all in on Chevron coaching is what we did and so created
• 19:17
  online. Courses.
• 19:18
  I remember talking about that. Yeah, yeah.
• 19:20
  Created online courses, hired a whole staff there putting on
• 19:25
  conferences kind of like Tony Robbins type type stuff is is
• 19:29
  where we are going and. What made you guys want to go
• 19:31
  that route? Impact, yeah, impact.
• 19:34
  That was the the number one thing financially made sense
• 19:37
  too, you know, because our overhead was significantly
• 19:39
  lower. There's a lot of, there's a lot
• 19:41
  of money tied up into the investment of the product.
• 19:43
  But if you just think of like an online course, let's say it's
• 19:47
  theoretically infinitely scalable.
• 19:49
  True, right. You know, once you have a a
• 19:51
  packaged online digital product that you can scale and sell
• 19:54
  anywhere. It didn't require my time.
• 19:58
  But you must have, there must have been some type of problem
• 19:59
  that you guys saw, excuse me, a problem you saw in the
• 20:02
  marketplace where you saw this is needed, right?
• 20:04
  For sure. Well, how we ran our team, you
• 20:08
  know, the, you know, honing it, a lot of other industries, you
• 20:13
  know, operate this way too, but especially in the real estate
• 20:16
  industry, it's everything's governed around kind of in your
• 20:20
  world, right. Hey, how do I get online leads?
• 20:22
  How do I get this online, you know, this online marketplace
• 20:28
  and, and kind of cut through the noise and, and get people to
• 20:31
  actually come to me, right, You know, without really having to
• 20:33
  do the work and I'll pay for it. And so you have organizations
• 20:36
  like Zillow and, and these that will like Zillow's kind of the,
• 20:41
  you know, like the death of the realtor, right, is what they
• 20:43
  say, but they, but they complement well, we just did not
• 20:47
  run that model. We didn't use any third party
• 20:49
  lead Gen. Everything we did was by
• 20:51
  referral, relationship based by referral.
• 20:54
  And we were doing, you know, over 500 deals a year right out
• 20:57
  of Fort Wayne, all, you know, again, all just picking up the
• 21:00
  phone, you know, talking to them.
• 21:02
  And that's what and we taught literally, you know, one of the
• 21:05
  philosophies will say, teach them how to fish.
• 21:07
  Don't give them fish, but teach them how to fish.
• 21:08
  That's. What we do in marketing, yes.
• 21:10
  Exactly. That's exactly what you did.
• 21:12
  That's why, you know, yeah, I've spent some time with like
• 21:14
  digital marketing, you know, companies.
• 21:16
  And it's like, God, this is awful.
• 21:18
  And when you told me what your model was like, man, I wish I
• 21:21
  would have known you probably 2 years prior.
• 21:23
  Yeah, because I already spent 10s of thousands of dollars on
• 21:25
  these other companies and had 0 results and then we just gave it
• 21:29
  up and. And you had nothing and you
• 21:32
  learned some things, but you had nothing kind of to support
• 21:34
  internally. You had no asset in the business
• 21:36
  after that. You're kind of like, all right,
• 21:37
  they're gone. Our content's gone, our
• 21:38
  production's gone. Yep.
• 21:40
  And that's the unfortunate. Part and that's what we did is
• 21:42
  we just ended up hiring internally, right and just kind
• 21:44
  of building it from scratch yeah and.
• 21:47
  Question on the referrals, Yeah, yeah.
• 21:49
  You guys got pretty much all of your business on referrals and
• 21:51
  you didn't use some of the more common methods in your industry.
• 21:55
  What is the key to getting more referrals?
• 21:57
  Because I feel like that's something I can get better at
• 21:58
  too. Sure, man.
• 21:59
  And some I do get referrals, but I'm like, yeah, I don't have a
• 22:02
  process behind it. I don't have like an operating
• 22:04
  rhythm behind it. Should companies have a process
• 22:06
  behind getting referrals? Absolutely.
• 22:08
  You know, and then if you just look statistically sales wise,
• 22:10
  if you get a referral, the the close ratio is like 50 to 70%.
• 22:14
  Yeah. And and so, so how do you
• 22:17
  manufacture referrals, right, That's right.
• 22:20
  That's the question and a lot of times, you know, there is
• 22:24
  definitely a system and a lot of times it's literally asking,
• 22:29
  just building great relationships with people and
• 22:33
  and then asking them for a referral.
• 22:35
  How often do you ask though? Every time.
• 22:37
  Every time you meet with them? Yep, every time.
• 22:39
  Because that's what I'm thinking.
• 22:40
  That's where I don't, I'm like, I should.
• 22:42
  I was thinking about Sarah Day because I asked the clients in
• 22:44
  person with them and I felt like I don't like asking for that
• 22:46
  stuff. I like just, you know, it's
• 22:48
  like, I don't know. It's one of those things I'm
• 22:49
  like, I don't want to ask them because I'm here to serve them.
• 22:51
  For sure. It's my mentality, but it's like
• 22:53
  I got to get out of that because I got to start freaking out.
• 22:54
  How many people do you want to help?
• 22:56
  Exactly, exactly. That's the.
• 22:58
  Flip they want to help. You.
• 22:59
  That's the flip, man. Absolutely.
• 23:00
  And you got to get rid of. That and they were like, yeah,
• 23:02
  absolutely. We know, you know what I mean.
• 23:04
  And so and I'm like, you know, I started thinking that's why I
• 23:06
  asked that question. I started thinking, I bet I
• 23:08
  should just start asking on every call.
• 23:10
  A lot of my clients I meet with once a week.
• 23:11
  We do strategy coaching, that kind of stuff.
• 23:13
  And I'm like, if I just asked every single call, I could
• 23:16
  probably generate 30, forty, 50% more business this year.
• 23:19
  Yep. Exactly.
• 23:20
  Easily, yeah. And and it's coming to you and
• 23:22
  your odds of closing are a lot higher.
• 23:25
  I had a when you said because I had a client yesterday that was
• 23:27
  like, she actually came from a referral.
• 23:29
  Yeah. And she said, you know,
• 23:30
  honestly, if I, if so and so didn't refer you in, I probably
• 23:33
  wouldn't have bought, you know, because I didn't, I wasn't
• 23:35
  exposed to you and that kind of stuff.
• 23:37
  But I trusted them so much and I was like, well, that's kind of
• 23:40
  what content is. If you do it right, especially
• 23:42
  videos, you kind of create a mini referral without having to
• 23:45
  need that referral partner for sure.
• 23:47
  And because because then I go, you didn't come through my
• 23:49
  content content, but I go, the person that referred you, guess
• 23:53
  where they found me on LinkedIn, Yes, through video content, yes.
• 23:56
  So that was like, they didn't need to have that mutual
• 23:58
  connection there. I had built trust and
• 24:00
  credibility with them through the video content.
• 24:02
  And that's ultimately what you're trying to do.
• 24:03
  And that's what a referral does. It just cuts the barrier down to
• 24:06
  it does, I don't trust this. What if it doesn't work?
• 24:08
  Oh my God. You have all the content, it
• 24:10
  adds validation to what they said.
• 24:12
  Totally, totally. So it works.
• 24:14
  Full circle. Totally, man.
• 24:15
  Right. And you know, but when you can
• 24:18
  manufacture referrals and you have all the content and stuff
• 24:20
  you're not using, you know, the content and, and marketing and
• 24:24
  everything is more, it's, it's more for validation, you know,
• 24:28
  not the means to go get the business.
• 24:30
  It's more of, hey, when a referral comes my way and they
• 24:33
  go look me up, you know, what's my online digital business card
• 24:36
  actually looking like? And I have all this information
• 24:38
  and legacy data out there about what I can do.
• 24:42
  And and then they can start building a relationship with you
• 24:44
  that way. I would argue it's both, though.
• 24:46
  It doesn't. Yeah, it.
• 24:47
  Is an and it's. Not an either or, but that's so
• 24:49
  true. So you're telling me I just need
• 24:51
  to ask every meeting, Every meeting?
• 24:53
  Yeah, that's the system. Yeah, I think that's, I think
• 24:55
  most companies do not do that. No, I was out of 99% of
• 24:58
  companies are not asking for roles.
• 24:59
  No, no, not at all. And it's, it's been interesting
• 25:02
  is I, you know, last five years, let's say, you know, when I own
• 25:06
  my own companies, you know, especially on the coaching side,
• 25:08
  I was, I was training sales teams, right, and team leaders
• 25:11
  and how to set all of that up and teaching them that system.
• 25:14
  And, and then now I'm like back into a technical sales role
• 25:17
  myself and, you know, practicing what I really preach and getting
• 25:21
  back to the fundamentals. And it's almost like teaching,
• 25:23
  you know, You know, Michael Jordan, hey, you know, this is
• 25:26
  how you want to shoot and everything else.
• 25:28
  And boom, now I'm back in the seat.
• 25:29
  Now I got to be that, you know? And it's just it's a little
• 25:31
  different. And so it is.
• 25:35
  So it is. Yeah.
• 25:36
  It's all about asking SO. Let's take it one step further.
• 25:38
  How do you ask for a referral? Yeah, literally that.
• 25:41
  Hey, if you know of anyone who has who needs this product or
• 25:45
  service, can you send them my way and.
• 25:47
  What they say. OK, I'll let you know if I do.
• 25:49
  Yeah, please do. Is it better to say, hey, who do
• 25:52
  you know? That was kind of the Aerotech
• 25:54
  trick, right? Sure.
• 25:54
  Corporate company, like instead of do you know anybody Except
• 25:57
  he's gotta feel. I think so.
• 25:59
  Yeah, I think so. Gotta feel.
• 26:00
  I think so too. So The Who question is always
• 26:02
  better, Yeah, more open-ended and everything else and really
• 26:05
  forced him to think about it. Yeah, but if it's in a, you
• 26:11
  know, like real quick, you're kind of exiting, you know, like,
• 26:14
  you know, sometimes a closed ended question is better and,
• 26:17
  and they just and you're just kind of planting the seed, you
• 26:20
  know, for that. Then it's a matter of constantly
• 26:22
  reminding them. And and so there was a, you
• 26:28
  know, there's a system that we that we worked by.
• 26:30
  It's like we basically had, you know, who are our referral
• 26:35
  partners, right? Who are people that, you know,
• 26:38
  when I asked them like, hey, if you know of anyone, you know, if
• 26:41
  from a real estate, if you know of anyone looking to buy or sell
• 26:44
  a house, would you refer me? Yeah.
• 26:46
  And you asked them that question and they said absolutely, dude,
• 26:49
  every single time, 1000%. And and so now I just have to
• 26:53
  remind them of that, right? And, and so, so I would put
• 26:57
  them, I'd rank them as a person who would do it.
• 26:59
  Now, if they did or not, you know, I would, I would rank them
• 27:04
  that way. But then if they did give me a
• 27:05
  referral, I would move them up a category, right.
• 27:08
  And then if they gave me multiple referrals within a
• 27:10
  year, I'd move them up another category.
• 27:12
  OK. And, and then each category, you
• 27:15
  know, let's call it 123, you know, you know, if it's a, if
• 27:19
  it's a level one, I'm contacting them every two weeks, you know,
• 27:23
  meaning that if they giving me multiple referrals within a
• 27:25
  calendar year, I'm contacting them, you know, probably, yeah,
• 27:28
  once every two weeks, just checking in.
• 27:30
  I'm making them my best friend. I am taking them out to dinner.
• 27:34
  I mean, they are my sales team, my referral partners are my
• 27:37
  sales team that's giving me business.
• 27:39
  And so I'm treating them like an unpaid sales team, right?
• 27:43
  This brilliant man, honestly, if you just stop listening to this
• 27:46
  podcast now and you took this away, yes, that's that's, that's
• 27:49
  pure value because I just again, I think some of you may be great
• 27:52
  at this, but I know there's a lot of people listening to this
• 27:55
  that are not doing that to that level.
• 27:57
  Yeah, and that's and. That's your.
• 27:58
  That's your extra 20, thirty, 40% this.
• 28:00
  Year. Exactly.
• 28:00
  Easily. Literally, that's it.
• 28:02
  And you have most control over it too.
• 28:04
  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, because it's people you're
• 28:06
  already working with that already trust and know you and
• 28:07
  stuff like that. So imagine if I spent, say if I
• 28:11
  had $5000 to spend, right? And I spent $5000 on ad spend,
• 28:18
  right? You know, the people that do not
• 28:20
  know me, cold traffic, cold traffic, they do not know me.
• 28:23
  They do not trust me. They don't even like me because
• 28:26
  they, because, because they don't know or trust me, right?
• 28:28
  And or if I took that same $5000 and had one hell of a party with
• 28:34
  my top 15 referral partners, that I'm going to get a lot more
• 28:38
  referrals. That's that's it.
• 28:42
  So I have to look at it. Dollar for dollar, you know,
• 28:44
  and, and how do I cut through the noise?
• 28:47
  How do I lower the barrier and everything else?
• 28:49
  And then again, going back to it's, it's an, and not an either
• 28:52
  or, you know, because the, you know, when I'm, when I'm pushing
• 28:55
  stuff online and there's a, there's a very sophisticated way
• 28:59
  to do that, right? You know, how do I hit people,
• 29:02
  you know, from, from online marketing, How do I hit people
• 29:05
  without it making it feel like I'm waterboarding them right?
• 29:08
  And I've hit them from different angles and everything else and
• 29:10
  keeping them engaged and all of that.
• 29:12
  Like that's, that's a, that's a skill and that's where you come
• 29:14
  in and, you know, but then on the flip side, if I get this,
• 29:18
  this small elite team of referral partners working for
• 29:21
  me, getting me referrals and then I'm getting them referrals
• 29:24
  too. If you get, you know, mutually
• 29:26
  beneficial, all of that online marketing stuff that you've
• 29:30
  done, it's because it's not going away once you delete it,
• 29:34
  It's always there. It's just adding validation to
• 29:37
  the referral and then increasing that odds instead of 50 to 70%,
• 29:41
  you're not going to 90 plus percent.
• 29:43
  And and so and that's the name of the game.
• 29:46
  And then you're, I guess going even deeper if you want to go
• 29:49
  deeper, you know, going into so there's a concept or a theory
• 29:53
  called Dunbar's number. Have you ever heard of this?
• 29:56
  So I think it was Rob, Robin Dunbar, someone that maybe maybe
• 30:01
  British anthropologist, if I recall correctly, he basically
• 30:06
  said, hey, a normal person can manage about 150 meaningful
• 30:11
  relationships. OK, that's a lot.
• 30:14
  Yeah, that is. And then there's a range from
• 30:16
  that. And then but you have these
• 30:18
  people who have databases of like 2005 thousand contacts,
• 30:22
  like, no, if you can only manage 150 meaningful relationships
• 30:26
  where you know them and they know you, they can pick you out
• 30:29
  in a lineup and you're, and then you're intentionally building
• 30:32
  that relationship with them to drive more referrals, right?
• 30:36
  You know, that's what it is. And so you're asking literally
• 30:39
  150 people, hey, if you know, if if someone, if you ever came
• 30:44
  across to anyone who needed digital marketing support or,
• 30:46
  you know, marketing support, would you refer me?
• 30:49
  Yeah. And you had 150 people who said,
• 30:51
  hell yeah. You know, that's your 150 that
• 30:54
  you're calling at least on a quarterly basis.
• 30:57
  And, and you're staying in touch with them.
• 30:59
  You're letting them know that you like them, you trust them,
• 31:02
  you care for them, and then you're there for them.
• 31:05
  If you, if you're intentional about it, it will come back to
• 31:08
  you that way. And then meanwhile, you have
• 31:10
  other stuff in the background and, you know, just as your
• 31:13
  engine running that way too. So now it's coming in from all
• 31:16
  angles. So good man.
• 31:17
  And I think the part about spending money like how you
• 31:19
  allocate your budget, I don't think most people would think
• 31:21
  about that either. They'd be like, all right, we
• 31:22
  got 5010 to 50 to 100,000, whatever it is.
• 31:25
  Well, how much of that are we putting towards referral
• 31:28
  partners and taking care of your best clients that refer you
• 31:30
  other clients? And yeah, to your point, I'd
• 31:33
  rather spend $5000 on what I call relationship marketing.
• 31:36
  It's part of the reason we do in person podcast and we got a
• 31:39
  community and it's all about kind of like shaking hands and
• 31:42
  getting to know people. And it's a lot more fun.
• 31:43
  It's a lot more fun. It's a lot more fun.
• 31:45
  Yeah, exactly. This is going on like trying to
• 31:48
  cold outreach. Every day.
• 31:49
  That's brutal sometimes for sure.
• 31:50
  For sure there's a place for that, but I just think, man,
• 31:53
  have you have you gone after your #1 channel first?
• 31:56
  You know, So let's go back to your story then.
• 31:58
  So I want to understand more what led you up.
• 32:02
  I know you had the obviously you had twins little bit of
• 32:04
  complications. You had to take some time off
• 32:06
  and handle that whole situation. But what was kind of leading you
• 32:09
  up to the point where you're like, I don't want to do this
• 32:10
  whole entrepreneurial thing? Anymore.
• 32:12
  Yeah. So, so that was that was
• 32:16
  interesting. And so then you Fast forward to,
• 32:21
  you know, 2024, our our transaction coordinator company.
• 32:25
  We we had a, it was me and Austin and then a third partner,
• 32:29
  her name's Aaron Peters, awesome human being.
• 32:32
  We ended up selling our shares of the company to her.
• 32:36
  And just to get rid of that, you know, we went all in on coaching
• 32:40
  and we consolidated the team. You know, we still, you know,
• 32:46
  still had a real estate license and still kept it at the, you
• 32:50
  know, the to Exp. I still technically I'm the team
• 32:52
  lead of the, of the Chevron group at Exp Realty, right?
• 32:55
  You know, and I have, you know, one of our agents and my uncle,
• 32:59
  right, you know, is, is actually on the team and I'm in Fort
• 33:03
  Wayne. So we just paired that down.
• 33:05
  But but yeah, we just, we need to focus, right?
• 33:09
  You know, we, we technically, personally, Austin wasn't
• 33:12
  involved in all of them, but I basically in the, you know, in a
• 33:18
  three-year span, technically started 7 different LLCS.
• 33:23
  And, you know, one was two of which one like two of which one
• 33:29
  was, you know, Chevron Enterprises, which was kind of
• 33:31
  like the holding company, if you will, or aesthetically, that's
• 33:34
  just all it was that, you know, didn't pass through any money,
• 33:37
  you know, And then we had, you know, my own, my own company,
• 33:41
  which is set up as a, as an S corporation.
• 33:43
  And that's where, you know, through the partnerships and
• 33:45
  everything from a tax standpoint, funneled everything
• 33:47
  through. And that's how I paid myself.
• 33:49
  And then if I did any like individual consulting or
• 33:51
  anything just outside of the businesses, that was that
• 33:54
  company. And I still own that company,
• 33:57
  you know, now. But, but we had, you know,
• 34:00
  outside of those two, the random one off 1 is actually called the
• 34:05
  Modern Physics Lab. So it was a technology
• 34:07
  development company. We did prototypes for proof of
• 34:10
  concept work. And so my, my business partner
• 34:12
  there was, I call him the mad scientist, literally the
• 34:15
  smartest man you would ever meet.
• 34:17
  And we were the one, the one main product that we had there
• 34:23
  was it's still, it's being developed right now.
• 34:26
  We partnered with the company out of Cape Town, South Africa
• 34:29
  for a medical device that was obsolete and we're still
• 34:32
  working, but they just didn't manufacture it anymore.
• 34:35
  And so, so basically redesigning it, digitizing it and, you know,
• 34:42
  putting it back on the market and, and so, so we did all the
• 34:45
  development work for for that. So just kind of taken some newer
• 34:48
  technologies, putting it into an older very stout device and.
• 34:54
  Now, what's your thought process on doing a bunch of different
• 34:56
  businesses versus focusing on one?
• 34:57
  Of those that's that is that's kind of the kind of leads me to
• 35:01
  where I am now, you know what I mean And you know, but then the
• 35:05
  other businesses were so we had a so we had the Chevron group,
• 35:09
  which is a real estate team. We had Chevron coaching, which
• 35:12
  is real estate training and coaching.
• 35:13
  We had cast transaction services and then we also had Chevron
• 35:16
  insurance, right so did home and auto.
• 35:18
  And so all of those, all of those companies just overlapped.
• 35:21
  And so when we. You guys like a broker?
• 35:24
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And we had another partner there
• 35:27
  who helped process everything. And, and so basically we, you
• 35:31
  know, anytime someone is buying a house, you know, they need to
• 35:34
  buy home insurance. And so it's just a natural
• 35:36
  referral. And you know, we disclosed, hey,
• 35:38
  we, you know, we do own the company, you know, but if you
• 35:40
  need insurance, here you go. Here's a good option for you.
• 35:43
  And, and so, so it just, it worked, right?
• 35:46
  And then you and then everything.
• 35:48
  So those, those companies were all aligned in real estate and
• 35:51
  all kind of overlapped. And the other one is just kind
• 35:53
  of like, you know, I really, I really love the technical side
• 35:57
  of things and you know, physics degree and everything else.
• 36:00
  And I always, even going into the corporate world, I always
• 36:03
  missed that side of it, right? And hence why I was very focused
• 36:07
  to do what I, what I'm doing now.
• 36:10
  But you know, but 24, you know, on a, a personal note, we, we
• 36:16
  were pregnant again and actually lost, lost a son during
• 36:20
  pregnancy. And it's about halfway through
• 36:24
  and you hear, you hear of like miscarriages and things like
• 36:26
  that, You know, fairly, fairly frequent or you hear of them,
• 36:30
  right? It's not all the time, But you
• 36:31
  know, when it, when it hits you, that was, that was, that was,
• 36:34
  that was, that was different. And, and I don't know if it was
• 36:38
  a, a midlife crisis or, you know, whatever you want to call
• 36:42
  it, but it just kind of hit me of like, is this, you know,
• 36:46
  we're, we're going all in, we're selling these companies off.
• 36:49
  You know, we shut down the insurance company.
• 36:50
  We consolidated the real estate team.
• 36:52
  Are we making good money at this point selling the companies?
• 36:54
  Are you cashing out pretty large as sexy?
• 36:56
  As it's not as sexy as they make.
• 36:58
  It out, yeah, yeah, You know what I mean.
• 36:59
  You're yeah, you know, it's a fair deal, OK, But you put in a
• 37:04
  put a lot of time and money and to getting it all set up and
• 37:07
  unravelled, right. You know, some of these things
• 37:09
  are really easy to get in, really hard to get out.
• 37:12
  Yeah. And, and so, so we were just
• 37:15
  fighting for simplicity and focus, right to your question,
• 37:18
  you know, you try to build out this empire and all these
• 37:20
  different things that are happening, but you know, if
• 37:23
  you're distracted, you know, from, you know, playing over
• 37:26
  here as opposed to going over here where you needed to be, you
• 37:29
  know, we had higher margins, higher potential, higher impact,
• 37:32
  all on the coaching. So hey, let's just, you know,
• 37:34
  shut everything down for focus and go.
• 37:37
  And but then through that time, it's like I, I don't know if I
• 37:41
  want to do this anymore. And, you know, and as you know,
• 37:44
  really allowed, you know, we had the, you know, we had the tragic
• 37:48
  event and, you know, and then, you know, we were consolidating
• 37:53
  everything else at the same time.
• 37:55
  And, and then through that, it's like, I, I guess I really miss
• 37:58
  the technical side of things. And I got that fixed, you know,
• 38:01
  and, and corporate America with an Allegis group or Arrow
• 38:03
  attack, talking to engineering managers and directors and
• 38:07
  really moving and bringing projects to life.
• 38:09
  And, you know, in my later years there, I was more on the
• 38:11
  services side, you know, easy at the time.
• 38:14
  Now it's act to learn services. And, and so so really part of
• 38:17
  those types of conversations, which was which was great and
• 38:21
  really hit the, you know, the technical side of, of my brain.
• 38:24
  And but I miss that. And, you know, going into real
• 38:28
  estate, you know, it was, you know, from an identity thing,
• 38:32
  it's like I, I, you know, I, I, I partnered into real estate
• 38:35
  because of my cousin. You know, I, I always said, Hey,
• 38:37
  I joined the family business and, you know, then his dad,
• 38:41
  right, is my uncle and he's been in the business for, you know,
• 38:43
  40 some odd years. And so but it just, it just felt
• 38:48
  off. And then, you know, then we had
• 38:50
  that event, we were kind of consolidating everything.
• 38:52
  And then and we find out we get pregnant again and it's like,
• 38:57
  OK, I think, I think I'm ready. I think I'm ready to be done.
• 39:01
  And, you know, worked on in Austin's, you know, sport
• 39:06
  through all of it and ended up just selling my shares of, you
• 39:11
  know, of Chevron coaching or really our, our, he bought all
• 39:14
  the products, you know, and, and, you know, future, you know,
• 39:17
  potential revenue from Lowe's is, is where that worked out
• 39:20
  and, and so parted ways. And I still talk to him
• 39:24
  regularly, you know, a couple times a week helping him with
• 39:26
  this stuff and, and vice versa, you know, just talking shop.
• 39:30
  And we're still best friends, you know what I mean?
• 39:32
  And he's a godfather of, you know, my, you know, my 6th
• 39:36
  child. And, and so, you know, but we,
• 39:41
  we were still living in our first house and we needed the
• 39:44
  bigger house. We needed all these things.
• 39:46
  And, you know, OK, the purpose of the business, support, the
• 39:48
  lifestyle of the owner. Like my lifestyle in Austin's
• 39:51
  lifestyles were very different and I needed the business to
• 39:56
  support me. We needed to really invest back
• 39:58
  into the company to get the Chevron coaching thing up.
• 40:00
  It was just a different business.
• 40:01
  And so even though the company was around and, and, and doing
• 40:04
  well financially, we needed to take it from here to here.
• 40:08
  And, and, and it's like I, I, I can't make that investment again
• 40:15
  when I have a lot more mouths to feed, when I have a lot more.
• 40:19
  And I had all the weight too, of all of that, you know what I
• 40:21
  mean? When I was at home and.
• 40:23
  You know, we would teach people work life balance and everything
• 40:25
  in the entrepreneur world and, and how how to set boundaries
• 40:28
  and everything else. And it's like, OK, I'm not
• 40:29
  practicing when I'm preaching. I'm physically present, but I'm
• 40:31
  not mentally present, you know? And what?
• 40:34
  Do you mean by that? So OK, I'm sitting at the dinner
• 40:37
  table and everything else and I'm thinking about, OK, we have
• 40:39
  payroll next week. We got all these things to get
• 40:41
  done. I'm running the operation, you
• 40:44
  know, all the different, all the different meetings, all the
• 40:46
  different, you know, thinking about, you know, finances to
• 40:51
  technology. Hey, we, we have this, we're
• 40:54
  paying, you know, 5 grand a month for this, you know, for
• 40:58
  this software, this technology and we're only using 10% of it.
• 41:01
  You know, how do I maximize that?
• 41:03
  That was a stupid thing. Why did they make that
• 41:04
  investment? You know, like all those, just
• 41:07
  all of those things, you know, and you know, that mental load
• 41:12
  of, of the operation. Am I, am I showing up enough for
• 41:16
  my, my real partner, my wife, you know, and I, and then am I
• 41:19
  showing up enough for my business partner?
• 41:21
  And which one is, is more important?
• 41:24
  And, and then, and then I also had this own identity thing too.
• 41:28
  Like I, you know, and I've always I, I love the technical
• 41:33
  side, you know, and like I love, I miss the engineering speak.
• 41:37
  You don't get that in real estate.
• 41:38
  Yeah, definitely not. Yeah.
• 41:41
  We did a little bit, we partnered with a a company, we
• 41:43
  help help them with their company, help them build it and
• 41:46
  everything was a a customer luxury home builder.
• 41:49
  So that was, we didn't have equity in the company, but we
• 41:52
  help help build build that company.
• 41:56
  And so I got a little bit of it, you know, from new construction
• 41:59
  and building and everything else.
• 42:01
  And but it's just like, OK, I I think I'm ready and do you.
• 42:05
  Remember the moment that you first thought you were ready to
• 42:07
  go away from owning the businesses to back to, you know,
• 42:10
  W2 employment work? Yeah, Yeah, I do.
• 42:12
  And. Was there some resistance around
• 42:14
  it too when you first thought about that?
• 42:15
  Yeah, that's resistance is a really good word, right?
• 42:18
  You know, and you know, as a, as a competitor, right, you know,
• 42:22
  which we all are entrepreneurs. I I envision a lot like just a
• 42:26
  lot like professional athletes totally.
• 42:27
  And, and you are made to fight through the resistance.
• 42:32
  Hey, I have these thoughts. I have this resistance and
• 42:34
  everything else I'm, I'm supposed to push through.
• 42:36
  You know, this workout sucks. OK, keep going.
• 42:38
  Go work harder, right? And that was really hard to
• 42:44
  like, you know what I, I think the resistance is, is meant to
• 42:49
  literally hold me back. And, you know, over the last
• 42:54
  number of years, I built a good relationship with a guy named
• 42:56
  Doctor Joe Currier, who I, I believe you know, and.
• 43:01
  I was going to ask you because it sounds like you've talked to
• 43:03
  somebody just the way sometimes you talk about things.
• 43:05
  I'm like, you've talked to like a pro.
• 43:06
  Yeah, many and thought about it a.
• 43:08
  Lot yeah yeah yeah for sure for sure yeah Doctor Joe and I would
• 43:11
  never I. It was always hard for me to, I
• 43:14
  didn't ever want to abuse that relationship, you know what I
• 43:16
  mean? Because we would always talk
• 43:17
  business and shop and everything else.
• 43:19
  And a lot of what I was doing was kind of like, you know, I
• 43:21
  kind of like I went to Doctor Joe and said, Hey, I'm making
• 43:26
  myself your apprentice, whether you like it or not.
• 43:28
  And I'm just going to learn from the best and.
• 43:31
  How would you describe him for the audience who doesn't know
• 43:33
  him? Is he a therapist?
• 43:34
  Psychologist. Yeah, I would, I would describe
• 43:36
  him. So Doctor Joe licensed, you
• 43:38
  know, psychologist, right, doctorate degree in psychology,
• 43:41
  organizational leadership psychologist, you know, went on,
• 43:46
  you know, went in to Allegis Group as their chief learning
• 43:48
  officer and, and that that company was basically his lab.
• 43:53
  And I I really believe in opportunity.
• 43:56
  Jeez. Oh man, I mean I, I mean you.
• 43:58
  You win one client. It's just like, you're just
• 44:01
  amazing, I mean. Amazing, just all the different,
• 44:04
  you know, all the different stories and and conversations
• 44:07
  and and I really believe that that company is is so successful
• 44:10
  the way it is, is because of his work.
• 44:12
  And you know, and how do you how do you intentionally build a
• 44:15
  relationship at which you know, and you know, a relationship?
• 44:20
  I, I look at relationships are, I look at a company of, OK, you
• 44:24
  have a company, but really matters what the culture is.
• 44:27
  And I look at culture like the quantity and quality of the
• 44:29
  relationships on your team. And, but how do I manufacture
• 44:32
  those relationships? How am I intentional about those
• 44:34
  relationships? And that's where a lot of Doctor
• 44:36
  Joe's work comes in. And, and so, so all of that
• 44:40
  being said, you know, Doctor Joe's statement is, you know,
• 44:44
  hey, keep the main thing, the main thing.
• 44:46
  And it's like, OK, well, what is the main thing?
• 44:48
  And you know, and like, OK, well, what, you know, what game
• 44:51
  am I really playing? You know, what game is are
• 44:53
  others? Why am I, why am I trying to
• 44:55
  play a game that's something I don't want to play anymore?
• 44:58
  And so I got really clear on the game I wanted to play at this
• 45:01
  stage in life and my seasonal life.
• 45:03
  And I just said committed to that.
• 45:05
  That's the main thing I really need to make sure I'm I'm
• 45:08
  putting family first. I'm simplifying everything and
• 45:11
  I'm trying to build this empire. And then I got that.
• 45:13
  Just that doesn't fit. And because the main thing is my
• 45:16
  family and I don't want to get 20 years down the road and my
• 45:21
  son doesn't know that I love him, that I don't want that.
• 45:26
  And so, yeah, So just fighting for simplicity and everything
• 45:33
  else. And yeah.
• 45:36
  And so I was, I was tough, you know, But yeah.
• 45:38
  November. You start to feel like your kids
• 45:41
  didn't know if they you love them or not.
• 45:42
  Was there a point where you kind of were starting to get to where
• 45:44
  you thought? No, no, not, not necessarily.
• 45:47
  It was my wife. Amazing human being, right.
• 45:51
  You know, there's a, you know, you know, when you get married,
• 45:55
  you know, and you know, in the, in the church, we're very
• 45:58
  Catholic, right. You know, So when you get
• 45:59
  married, you become one. Yeah.
• 46:01
  And but what does that mean? Yeah, you know what I mean.
• 46:04
  That was that was something I I struggled with, you know what I
• 46:07
  mean? For for a very long time and
• 46:09
  what that understanding is. And my understanding of it now
• 46:11
  is much more clear. And, you know, I would make, you
• 46:15
  know, I would make decisions, you know, now more than ever, do
• 46:19
  I listen to her? Like I truly listen to her.
• 46:21
  Do I listen to her before? But like, she has the greatest,
• 46:25
  you know, instincts on, on people.
• 46:27
  She's not a business person by any means, but she understands
• 46:30
  business better than any entrepreneur or business person,
• 46:32
  right, Because she understands people so well.
• 46:34
  She understands me better than anyone much better than myself.
• 46:37
  And so, so really listening to, you know, to her and yeah.
• 46:43
  And so she's and she is a, she's a, she's a mom's mom, I call it,
• 46:49
  right. I mean, just really in tune with
• 46:51
  the kids and, and just just how just the experiences and the
• 46:56
  magical moments that she creates, just she does an
• 46:59
  amazing job there and and really holds me accountable to doing
• 47:02
  the same thing, you know, where, you know, where comparing, you
• 47:05
  know, myself to maybe someone else.
• 47:06
  Yeah, she doesn't care about that.
• 47:08
  You know, I'm a rock star. You know what I mean?
• 47:10
  You know, compared to compared to others, but.
• 47:12
  Your kids think that too. Yeah, they do.
• 47:14
  I I really do. And they say that to me all the
• 47:15
  time. And, you know, I, I love them
• 47:19
  dearly, you know what I mean? I try to be there for, you know,
• 47:21
  for, for everything. You know, I, I'm running the,
• 47:24
  the youth wrestling program that my son's part of right now, you
• 47:28
  know, help out with, you know, we got him into tackle football
• 47:31
  this past year. So, so all the things, you know
• 47:35
  what I mean? Yeah.
• 47:35
  At the time of this recording, he's in what, 3rd grade?
• 47:37
  You know, my oldest is in fifth grade.
• 47:39
  And then it goes down from there.
• 47:40
  And so now life is good. That's awesome, man.
• 47:44
  I'm so happy for you. I'm happy that you made that
• 47:46
  decision because it really was the best thing for you, even
• 47:48
  though there's just a bunch of noise outside.
• 47:51
  And I was going to ask you about the ego aspect, man, because you
• 47:54
  had to. There's that you're like, I want
• 47:56
  to be a, you know, I'm going to show up better for my kids, my
• 47:58
  wife, my, my life, really, which is us building this business to
• 48:01
  support my life. And now my life is trying to
• 48:03
  support the business. You know, it's almost like
• 48:04
  flipped, but there's this other side of like when you set out
• 48:07
  to, I don't know, at least for me, when you set out to grow a
• 48:09
  business, it's like there's a certain ego element of like, I'm
• 48:12
  going to make this thing great. I'm be this and that and it kind
• 48:15
  of drives you. But at certain point it can
• 48:17
  actually hold you back too, for sure.
• 48:18
  But there's that element of like if I think about going back to
• 48:20
  get a job, it's like, did I lose or did I fail or did I literally
• 48:24
  it? You know, it's tough and and no,
• 48:25
  the answer is no, if it's the right move for you, of course
• 48:27
  not. But it's like hard to.
• 48:29
  I would wrestle with that a little bit.
• 48:30
  Yeah, no. And I did, very much did.
• 48:32
  And it was hard for me to have those conversations with the
• 48:35
  people. And you know, I would, I would
• 48:38
  have this, this conversation with many people and I would
• 48:41
  just go into this whole story and why I did what I was doing
• 48:43
  and everything else. And, and, and after all of these
• 48:47
  different conversations I would have with people, the, the
• 48:49
  common thread amongst all of them, they didn't care.
• 48:52
  Exactly. Only person that.
• 48:54
  They I cared, they cared about me, yes, you know, they cared
• 48:57
  about my well-being and what I'm doing, but they don't care what
• 49:00
  I'm doing. People are too busy with their
• 49:01
  own. Exactly.
• 49:03
  Yeah, exactly. And it's like, OK, so, but I, I
• 49:06
  did that was, that was, you know, it was, it was therapeutic
• 49:10
  for me to keep talking about it and have the conversations and
• 49:13
  reach out to the people that OK, who's going to be the most
• 49:16
  difficult conversation in my mind to share this news too.
• 49:19
  And so I just started talking to all these people and a lot of,
• 49:22
  you know, friends and family and everything else.
• 49:25
  OK, You know, I'm not, I'm, you know, and, and it was, you know,
• 49:29
  I'm not a failure, right? You know what it was?
• 49:32
  Think if anything you're brave for sure for doing something
• 49:35
  that I think most people were scared to do.
• 49:37
  For sure. And like Doctor Joe says, you
• 49:39
  know, keep the main thing, the main thing that's right.
• 49:42
  And, you know, and I still, you know, right now my, you know, my
• 49:47
  whole thing is, you know, fight for simplicity and, and, you
• 49:50
  know, simplicity, simplicity, simplicity.
• 49:52
  And I'm at a point of, of simplicity, right?
• 49:54
  You know, I'm in a technical sales role and I'm, you know,
• 49:57
  just, you know, set meetings, find projects, win projects,
• 50:01
  right? Like that's that's what it is.
• 50:03
  And, but at my, but because of what I know, you know, of all
• 50:08
  the different things like getting back into that, I having
• 50:11
  that laser focus, I see all of these other things like
• 50:13
  operationally with the business and, and everything else.
• 50:16
  And it's like I that's not the problem I am meant to solve
• 50:20
  right now, you know, and you know, the problem that I meant
• 50:23
  to solve is I need new business, right?
• 50:25
  You know, the company needs more sales.
• 50:27
  And so that's my job, you know, is to go do that.
• 50:31
  Let me go hunt and, and, and find and it is, it really is.
• 50:35
  And just having the focus and you know, like now all the work
• 50:39
  is still going to be on your mind.
• 50:40
  You know what I mean? I don't think, you know, even
• 50:43
  when you're in corporate America to, you know, to now and
• 50:46
  everything else, it's part of how you're wired.
• 50:48
  And for you, it's like you just always want to go.
• 50:52
  And but there's tools and frameworks that you can use to,
• 50:55
  you know, to compartmentalize and, and focus and you know, now
• 51:00
  it's what's really nice. I don't have the burden of the
• 51:02
  operations. I still have the burden of I
• 51:06
  need to continue to drive and grow because there's a, you
• 51:08
  know, the, the mouths to feed everyone in this, you know, in
• 51:12
  this facility, in this company is dependent on me, you know,
• 51:15
  because, you know, there's a, there's a small sales team and
• 51:18
  in this small sales team, it's an elite team, great team,
• 51:22
  right? But we have to make sure that
• 51:23
  works, you know, coming into this place and, and so, and
• 51:27
  that's, that is, you know, it's called sales and marketing,
• 51:29
  right? It's, it's the same no matter if
• 51:31
  you're, if you're working for someone else or you own your own
• 51:34
  stuff like that is, it's one of the most important vital
• 51:36
  functions of an organization and, and it's neat to be a part
• 51:40
  of that again and kind of shaping it.
• 51:42
  You know, I'm learning the basics or going to get back to
• 51:44
  the basics and operating and everything.
• 51:46
  But, but some of the things that I know it's, it's neat to help
• 51:52
  shape that, you know, for, you know, for the future of the
• 51:55
  company too. I.
• 51:56
  Want to talk about where you're at today here in one second.
• 51:58
  Yeah, I want to ask a an important question here that I'm
• 52:00
  genuinely curious about In the future, at some point, would you
• 52:06
  ever consider going back? My wife's telling.
• 52:08
  Your business, My wife said Until all the kids are in
• 52:10
  school, I can't do anything. I literally, I literally had
• 52:15
  this, not just a lot of school. Or what do you mean?
• 52:18
  School, well, she she said 20 years.
• 52:21
  I'm like, wait until like our youngest, you know who's.
• 52:23
  Or whether they're out of school, like past high school.
• 52:25
  Yeah, that's what she said. You know, when they're all past
• 52:28
  high. School.
• 52:28
  What do you think? We'll, we'll find out, but I
• 52:30
  literally had an idea the other day.
• 52:33
  I'm like, Hey, I can do this, you know, and which ties into
• 52:37
  like what I'm doing now and everything else.
• 52:39
  And how do I, how do I get all these things to work together?
• 52:42
  And, you know, and what I, what I'm really good at is how do I
• 52:45
  get all these different systems? I'm a very, very much a systems
• 52:48
  thinker. And how do I get all these
• 52:50
  systems working together in unison?
• 52:52
  And I can just pull this golden thread that unlocks everything.
• 52:56
  And my, my time and focus and energy is very narrow and I'm
• 53:00
  not stretched across the entire organization or across the
• 53:02
  entire system. Cuz when you have all these
• 53:04
  different systems, I now become one.
• 53:07
  So my impact can stay really deep.
• 53:11
  I just have this one golden throw.
• 53:12
  What's this one thing or this theme that I can focus on?
• 53:16
  And so when I see all these different, you know, things and
• 53:21
  opportunities out there, right, I'm like, let's go.
• 53:23
  Yeah. And I'm like, no focus name.
• 53:25
  Yes, yes, focus. Well, I think.
• 53:28
  The exciting thing about life, man, is you never know where
• 53:30
  it's going to take for sure. You know, you could crush it in
• 53:33
  this job in the next 7 years. Five years do amazing for them,
• 53:36
  help them grow, have an idea. Maybe they become a customer or
• 53:39
  something. You grow them even more.
• 53:41
  Sure, who knows? You go back into
• 53:43
  entrepreneurship, kids are a little bit older, it's easier to
• 53:46
  manage. You have more experience.
• 53:47
  Yeah, or you don't. It's just like I think that's
• 53:49
  the cool something about I always I heard one day and it's
• 53:52
  really stuck with me. Don't judge yourself for where
• 53:54
  you are today. Like people stop and they think,
• 53:57
  well, where am I at right this second?
• 53:58
  And they kind of judge their life.
• 54:00
  I'm like, I'm here, but in six months something completely
• 54:03
  changed totally. Or in five years you could be
• 54:05
  looked back and go, wow, I thought that was like the end of
• 54:07
  the road. I was just getting started.
• 54:08
  I think you're just getting. Started I, I, I am.
• 54:10
  And, you know, those two thoughts as you were sharing
• 54:12
  that, you know, it was, it was told to me, you know, hey, it's,
• 54:18
  it's really hard to connect the dots in the moment, you know?
• 54:21
  But you know, when you when you look back, you really see it
• 54:24
  and, and you recognize that everything that you have done
• 54:27
  has prepared you for what you were about to do.
• 54:30
  And it's like, yeah, that's it. And I see it now in the seat
• 54:33
  that I'm in and what I'm doing. And it's, it is, it's really,
• 54:40
  it's really, really comforting. And I'm excited for that.
• 54:44
  You know, I I really AM. And as I was sharing that, I
• 54:47
  forgot the second thing that I was going to say.
• 54:49
  It's all good, man. No, I think that's exactly
• 54:51
  right. I think that's the approach too,
• 54:52
  is like, hey, enjoy the the OR enjoy the, the period that
• 54:56
  you're in right now and don't be so eager to go to the next or
• 54:59
  this. Yeah.
• 55:00
  And just know there's something coming for you, man.
• 55:02
  There's always something coming for us.
• 55:04
  Yeah. That was, that was it actually
• 55:06
  the, you know, I've, I have over the years, I, I really look at
• 55:12
  in the past years like setting up the companies and everything
• 55:15
  else. I would, you know, so for advice
• 55:17
  for your listeners right now, I would always say, Hey, will this
• 55:20
  scale for the next 15 to 20 years, Hey, this action that I'm
• 55:23
  doing right now, will this scale, will I have a long
• 55:25
  runway? What team am I putting in place
• 55:27
  to run without me and to sustain the business and to grow it?
• 55:30
  And it's too far. It's way too far thinking.
• 55:34
  And the number that I keep hearing is about 18 months.
• 55:37
  Always look at 18 months and you know, 18 months is because
• 55:42
  there's so much that can change within that time frame.
• 55:44
  And it might sit to some people who are real global thinkers, 18
• 55:48
  months is like, that's nothing, right?
• 55:49
  But stay disciplined and stay focused there.
• 55:51
  And so that's, you know, that's where I'm at now, right?
• 55:55
  It's like, OK, yeah, I get, I get that.
• 55:58
  But let me let me focus on the right now and what's what's
• 56:01
  going to help me this next month, these next six months,
• 56:03
  this next year, this next 18 months tops.
• 56:07
  And and so. Yeah, very cool, man.
• 56:11
  So where? So how would you describe the
• 56:12
  company that you're at now in a couple sentences?
• 56:13
  What you guys do? Yeah, manufacturing systems
• 56:17
  integrator, right. So we do automation, robotics,
• 56:20
  vision systems, really, really cool smart technology, right to
• 56:26
  fully automate a manufacturing facility.
• 56:28
  That's what we do. So so my job is to go find those
• 56:31
  types of projects. I have a very talented team
• 56:33
  behind me and you know, we concept them, we scope it out,
• 56:37
  you know, say, hey, this what's going to cost you to implement
• 56:40
  this new system in order to design, build and and install
• 56:43
  it, you know, complete turnkey system.
• 56:45
  You know, sometimes they're maybe like a peripheral or
• 56:49
  auxiliary system that'll attach to an existing system.
• 56:52
  But a lot of what we do is full turnkey.
• 56:54
  So think of like a fully automated production line.
• 56:57
  You know, we do, we do that and very cool.
• 57:00
  It's fun. It really is like I'm nerding
• 57:03
  out everyday. That's cool.
• 57:04
  You get the technical side, you go, yeah.
• 57:06
  You know, I do. And I, that was something I was
• 57:07
  looking for too, right? Because it was November of 24.
• 57:11
  I was finally unemployed again, right?
• 57:13
  And like, hey, what do I want to do when I grow up?
• 57:16
  And, and so I actually went back to the very beginning and said,
• 57:19
  Hey, right when I graduated, you know, from, from college, I
• 57:22
  wanted to be like a sales engineer, application engineer.
• 57:25
  And I really want to do that. And so there's only a select
• 57:28
  number of companies that, you know, that did that.
• 57:31
  And, you know, the founder of the company, he actually sold to
• 57:36
  a larger, larger group called HG Automation.
• 57:39
  So Adapt Tech Systems is a company that I'm at right now.
• 57:41
  And there's a, there's a number of different companies that,
• 57:44
  that Joe, he's still the CEO of the company, you know, stayed on
• 57:49
  and still, still managing the operations.
• 57:52
  But then, you know, HG automation, a lot of different,
• 57:55
  other operating companies that each has its own niche, if you
• 57:58
  will. So we have the backing of a very
• 58:00
  large company, but then each company has its own specialty.
• 58:04
  And, and so, so my ability, so my job is to go in and kind of
• 58:07
  wear the Adaptec hat primarily. And I go in with a very, very
• 58:12
  specific focus. And then as I'm understanding,
• 58:14
  you know, what it is that the company needs and different
• 58:16
  projects and everything else, I can then leverage the different,
• 58:19
  you know, capabilities of the whole company in order to take
• 58:22
  on whatever it is that they need.
• 58:23
  So because manufacturing right now, it's just with the, you
• 58:27
  know, whether it's the current administration, the current
• 58:29
  climate, everything else manufacturing in the US is
• 58:33
  popping and and it is, it's awesome.
• 58:37
  Let's talk about that because we have this, this report that I
• 58:41
  printed out the manufacturing PMI, which is I guess kind of
• 58:45
  signals the strength of manufacturing in a lot of ways.
• 58:48
  It's at 52.6% January 202026 ISI manufacturing PMI report.
• 58:55
  This is like the report, I think it's called the ISM though,
• 58:57
  Institution for Supply Management.
• 58:59
  And So what they're saying is new orders are growing,
• 59:02
  production is growing, employment contracting, supplier
• 59:04
  deliveries are slowing, raw materials, inventories,
• 59:07
  contracting customers, inventories are too low, prices
• 59:10
  are increasing, imports unchanged, exports are growing.
• 59:14
  A lot going on. There a lot going on.
• 59:15
  So what do you see from a manufacturing standpoint?
• 59:17
  You said it's obviously it's booming, it's picking up, it's
• 59:19
  popping. What's going on?
• 59:20
  Yeah, yeah. So some would say the last, you
• 59:23
  know, two to four years, if you will, we're kind of in this tech
• 59:26
  recession. Yeah.
• 59:27
  And now we're coming out of it like I, I start to see it sort
• 59:30
  of starting to get a little more, you know, more RF QS.
• 59:34
  You know, companies are actually everyone talks about AI.
• 59:38
  It's, you know, the advantages of it and it's, you know,
• 59:41
  amazing when you leverage it the right way.
• 59:44
  But really I, I saw a stat, I think it was when you look at
• 59:48
  dollars being spent right now, 40% of them are on new hardware.
• 59:52
  And you know, when you looked at technology and, and everything
• 59:58
  else, AIAI integration is actually much smaller percentage
• 1:00:02
  on that. But it's, hey, let me get a new
• 1:00:03
  robot in. Hey, we have, we have, we bought
• 1:00:05
  these systems 20 years ago, you know, now we need to retool.
• 1:00:10
  You know, there's a lot faster equipment out there.
• 1:00:14
  You know, instead of putting band aids on this existing, you
• 1:00:18
  know, assembly line, automated assembly line, let's just, you
• 1:00:22
  know, get rid of it and make it brand new.
• 1:00:24
  And, you know, that way our, our cycle times for products are a
• 1:00:27
  lot faster and everything else because because there's a lot
• 1:00:30
  more confidence in the market, you know, that, hey, exports are
• 1:00:34
  are increasing right now. The rest of the world is
• 1:00:36
  starting to buy. There's a lot of incentive to to
• 1:00:38
  get everything, make everything here in America, especially with
• 1:00:41
  tariffs and everything else that that that exists.
• 1:00:45
  That's what we're seeing a lot of too.
• 1:00:47
  You know, companies that would typically outsource.
• 1:00:49
  They're looking domestically now.
• 1:00:52
  So I guess the tariffs are working from that standpoint.
• 1:00:54
  Oh, very much. Is that right?
• 1:00:55
  Yeah. Yeah, very much so.
• 1:00:56
  I heard one individual talk. It was.
• 1:01:00
  I was basically saying hey this is this.
• 1:01:02
  Would be the ideal. State the US dollar, you know,
• 1:01:05
  devalued tariffs keep going up, you know, which really makes us
• 1:01:10
  competitive against, you know, foreign, foreign competition,
• 1:01:14
  right? You know what you, you kind of
• 1:01:16
  think the opposite. Why, why do you want the dollar
• 1:01:17
  to devalue, right? You know, when you compare
• 1:01:19
  dollar for dollar across the other countries and, and we're
• 1:01:23
  comparable, it actually makes a lot more sense to produce, you
• 1:01:26
  know, in the US And when you produce in the US, just like
• 1:01:29
  anything, regardless of what the what the rest of the world's
• 1:01:32
  doing, if you can produce things, produce widgets, produce
• 1:01:36
  stuff and sell it and you have this constant cash flow coming
• 1:01:39
  in, really doesn't matter what the markets doing, right, you're
• 1:01:42
  still producing, right. So.
• 1:01:45
  Suppose that's true with anything.
• 1:01:47
  Now I don't know a ton about this, but like when I think
• 1:01:49
  about China. And these other, you know,
• 1:01:50
  countries that produce goods for a low cost, are they just not as
• 1:01:53
  good as the most more technological things?
• 1:01:55
  Because I think how do we compete with China when it comes
• 1:01:58
  to manufacturing? Like it just seems like they
• 1:01:59
  they would just pay their people nothing.
• 1:02:01
  And it's like, we're not going to do that here, you know what I
• 1:02:03
  mean? So So what how is that?
• 1:02:04
  Is there a different competitive landscape that is going on?
• 1:02:08
  I don't know. I don't know too much, right?
• 1:02:11
  You know, I don't know. Enough to to confidently say one
• 1:02:13
  way or another, right. But what I know about say China
• 1:02:18
  specifically is, you know, they are they are as advanced, if not
• 1:02:22
  more advanced in some areas than we are.
• 1:02:25
  And you know, they just pay their people so much less.
• 1:02:28
  So it's like, yeah, we so but. But I do know that their
• 1:02:31
  workforce is increasing. And, and because of that, you
• 1:02:35
  know, because they're paying people more, we're now more
• 1:02:38
  competitive because the cost to the cost of that.
• 1:02:41
  And then they have, you know, whole government subsidies and
• 1:02:43
  everything else that go into that.
• 1:02:45
  And that's where I, I really don't understand it all and
• 1:02:48
  actually what's happening. But, but that's part of it, you
• 1:02:52
  know what I mean, of, of what they're doing.
• 1:02:54
  And, and they're yeah, there's yeah, we're, we're we're
• 1:02:59
  basically from, from AUS manufacturing standpoint, we're,
• 1:03:02
  we're trying to do what we can to box out the rest of the
• 1:03:04
  world, bring manufacturing here, you know, really incentivize
• 1:03:07
  people to produce here. And and I'm, I'm starting to see
• 1:03:12
  that trend, you know, as the more conversations that I'm that
• 1:03:14
  I'm having and everything else. So yeah.
• 1:03:18
  So yeah, I was talking to to my founder talk community, which.
• 1:03:20
  By the way, if you're not a part of that join, it's free.
• 1:03:22
  It's in the description. You can talk with other
• 1:03:24
  founders, talk about guests coming on the show, questions we
• 1:03:26
  want to ask them. Yeah, but I was asking, I I
• 1:03:29
  pulled up that report and I said, you know, looks like
• 1:03:31
  manufacturing is picking up, which is usually a good kind of
• 1:03:34
  indicator that the economy is going to start to go right.
• 1:03:36
  But then it also like the hirings not following it, at
• 1:03:39
  least not yet. Maybe it's a little bit lagging
• 1:03:40
  behind. Do you think because of
• 1:03:42
  automation and AI now we got humanoid robotics and factories?
• 1:03:45
  I'm curious of your thoughts on that.
• 1:03:46
  Like you think some of that stuff is just going to kind of
• 1:03:49
  like the kind of the consolidation the past couple
• 1:03:51
  years? One, probably people are just
• 1:03:53
  utilizing their people more and technology more.
• 1:03:55
  So maybe that catches up as they continue to ramp.
• 1:03:57
  But do you think part of it is that we just won't hire as much
• 1:03:59
  because of the technology? No, I don't think that's the
• 1:04:01
  case. I think it's.
• 1:04:03
  If there's a pause, it's more of a, a stun gun, if you will, you
• 1:04:07
  know, because they're trying to figure out, OK, where is it that
• 1:04:09
  we actually need to hire? And so for retooling and we're,
• 1:04:12
  we're pivoting our organization in a particular way.
• 1:04:17
  I don't want to hire just to hireright very, you know, very
• 1:04:20
  smart and tactful with it. And, you know, for bringing in
• 1:04:23
  different, you know, technology that we need to train people
• 1:04:25
  properly for. I'm going to, I'm going to get
• 1:04:28
  very specific with what type of technology we have.
• 1:04:31
  And it's it's I I believe it's more of that and, and, and
• 1:04:36
  automation. I see automation, actually.
• 1:04:39
  If we don't automate and we don't do that, we will lose
• 1:04:43
  jobs. Yeah, we'll fall behind too.
• 1:04:45
  We will. Like we need to advance, you
• 1:04:47
  know? 'Cause companies like 'cause if
• 1:04:48
  we don't. Automate, you know China's
• 1:04:49
  right, you know other other countries right now they're all
• 1:04:52
  automated, right? And it's like AI, you have to
• 1:04:55
  get you have. To Yeah, you have to.
• 1:04:57
  What do you think about the humanoid robotics?
• 1:04:59
  Love it. They're in factories.
• 1:05:00
  I think it's yeah, right. Yeah, Yeah, they've come a.
• 1:05:03
  Long way and have they? Yeah, a long way.
• 1:05:05
  It's it's neat to see. And it's amazing, just.
• 1:05:08
  How just being like around the engineering world again and just
• 1:05:13
  the amount of programming and, you know, just the dexterity
• 1:05:16
  that some of these robots have. It's it's like it's amazing, you
• 1:05:20
  know, and, and how how fast it's accelerating right now, it's I'm
• 1:05:27
  excited to see like where it's going.
• 1:05:29
  You know, I, you know, I, I don't know, right?
• 1:05:32
  You know, a lot of you know, a lot of what I do right now, it's
• 1:05:36
  like, OK, just like anything else, just like your world,
• 1:05:38
  right? OK, well, what's your problem?
• 1:05:40
  Yep. You know, what do we have to do
• 1:05:41
  to solve it? And, you know, where there's a
• 1:05:43
  right now fix, there's a long term fix, you know, and, and how
• 1:05:46
  do we bridge that gap? And what kind of time and money
• 1:05:49
  do we want to put into that? Right.
• 1:05:51
  So it's still the same conversation no matter what.
• 1:05:53
  Yeah. And you just now have more tools
• 1:05:55
  to apply, you know, with the humanoid robotics and, you know,
• 1:05:58
  other advanced technologies to apply to the problem.
• 1:06:01
  That's right. And so one of the hardest things
• 1:06:03
  right now to manage is actually what technology exists and going
• 1:06:06
  back to, OK, if I have $5000 to spend on ad spend or $5000 on an
• 1:06:10
  event, which was going to have the bigger bang for my buck.
• 1:06:13
  And, and that's what's really being figured out right now.
• 1:06:17
  And, and I, I suppose it always be figured out, but it's like,
• 1:06:20
  OK, well, what's, what's the next, right, best decision to
• 1:06:23
  make for our organization? If I'm spending multimillion
• 1:06:26
  dollars on a on a line and how am I thinking through that,
• 1:06:30
  right. And so that's really what it
• 1:06:32
  boils down to. There's a lot of options.
• 1:06:34
  It's almost like that becomes a challenge of like, all right,
• 1:06:35
  what the? Where do we even start?
• 1:06:37
  Yeah, Where do we even go? And what is the right option for
• 1:06:39
  us and what technology and tooling and yeah, all that
• 1:06:41
  stuff. So, well, if the if the one word
• 1:06:44
  was control years ago, what is the one word now?
• 1:06:46
  Simplicity. Simplicity.
• 1:06:50
  Love that. Yeah.
• 1:06:50
  And you alluded to that. Yes, that's not surprising.
• 1:06:53
  That is, that is. It simplicity and you feel like
• 1:06:55
  you've got that now. I'm I'm still working on it.
• 1:06:58
  It's always a work in progress. Oh man, I'm fighting for it,
• 1:07:02
  Yeah, you know. Well, they I, this is an
• 1:07:04
  absolute pleasure having you on the show.
• 1:07:05
  Thank you. I appreciate.
• 1:07:06
  You coming all the way out here and doing this, too.
• 1:07:07
  Where can people connect with you, learn more about what you
• 1:07:09
  guys do and get in touch? Linkedin's a great way.
• 1:07:12
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:07:12
  Link it in. Yeah.
• 1:07:14
  Anywhere else website. We'll link the website,
• 1:07:16
  yeahadaptecsystems.com. Yep.
• 1:07:18
  Yeah, that'd. Be a cool one.
• 1:07:20
  We'll put your your LinkedIn profile, website, all the good
• 1:07:22
  stuff in the. Description and thanks for again
• 1:07:24
  for coming out. Yeah, thanks for having me.
• 1:07:26
  Thanks brother.