Latest / River City Mystery - Investigating mysteries in southern Indiana, southern Illinois, and western Kentucky / Interview with Joni Mayhan

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Interview with Joni Mayhan · River City Mystery - Investigating mysteries in southern Indiana, southern Illinois, and western Kentucky

• 0:01
  Speaker: We were trying to find out how
• 0:03
  Speaker: old she was and just different
• 0:04
  Speaker: information.
• 0:05
  Speaker: And all of a sudden we heard like paper crinkling behind us
• 0:08
  Speaker: and we heard a wow.
• 0:10
  Speaker: And it was like a little child's.
• 0:12
  Speaker: It wasn't across any of the equipment.
• 0:13
  Speaker: It was in real life.
• 0:14
  Speaker: It was a disembodied voice.
• 0:16
  Speaker: It was like a little child trying to scare us.
• 0:29
  Speaker: You're listening to River City
• 0:30
  Speaker: Mystery Podcast, the show that
• 0:32
  Speaker: delves into the Evansville and
• 0:33
  Speaker: surrounding Tri-State area's
• 0:35
  Speaker: mysteries, including unsolved
• 0:37
  Speaker: crimes, murders, and
• 0:38
  Speaker: disappearances.
• 0:40
  Speaker: A show that isn't afraid to jump down the rabbit hole to
• 0:42
  Speaker: investigate reports of local hauntings, sightings of UFOs and
• 0:45
  Speaker: cryptids, among other paranormal phenomena, with your host,
• 0:49
  Speaker: co-founder of the Humans of Evansville Facebook page.
• 0:52
  Speaker: Law office worker by day.
• 0:54
  Speaker: Insomniac.
• 0:54
  Speaker: Researcher of the unknown.
• 0:55
  Speaker: By night.
• 0:56
  Speaker: Matt.
• 0:57
  Speaker: Deig.
• 1:02
  Speaker: Welcome to episode eight.
• 1:03
  Speaker: I'm joined by Joanie Mahon,
• 1:05
  Speaker: author, medium and paranormal
• 1:07
  Speaker: investigator in new Harmony,
• 1:08
  Speaker: Indiana.
• 1:09
  Speaker: Welcome to the show, Joanie.
• 1:11
  Speaker: Well, thank you for having me.
• 1:12
  Speaker: I'm really excited.
• 1:13
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 1:13
  Speaker: I was actually at Barnes and Noble and came across your book,
• 1:16
  Speaker: your latest book, Haunted Posey County, and just about fell out
• 1:20
  Speaker: of my chair when I was like, oh my gosh, there's a book about
• 1:22
  Speaker: hauntings in Posey County.
• 1:24
  Speaker: Oh, yeah.
• 1:25
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 1:25
  Speaker: And before that, there was a book about the hauntings in new
• 1:28
  Speaker: Harmony that I wrote.
• 1:29
  Speaker: So, uh, very haunted area, apparently so.
• 1:33
  Speaker: And I actually picked up both of those books and have read them.
• 1:35
  Speaker: And you do a really good job of giving a history of all of the
• 1:39
  Speaker: paranormal, you know, events and you go into great detail.
• 1:43
  Speaker: So you did a good job on those.
• 1:45
  Speaker: Thank you.
• 1:46
  Speaker: The history is really important to me because it really
• 1:49
  Speaker: interlinks with the haunting so much, and I'm also just
• 1:52
  Speaker: fascinated by what was there before because as you know, a
• 1:56
  Speaker: lot of times the haunting comes from the land, not from the
• 1:59
  Speaker: building that's currently on it.
• 2:00
  Speaker: And in some cases, we were able to track it back to like four or
• 2:05
  Speaker: five different things that had been on that same spot.
• 2:07
  Speaker: So it had a lot of relevance as to why it was haunted.
• 2:10
  Speaker: A lot of people lived there.
• 2:13
  Speaker: Oh yeah.
• 2:13
  Speaker: And I've always loved new Harmony.
• 2:15
  Speaker: There's something about it.
• 2:16
  Speaker: There's something it's kind of hard to put your finger on it.
• 2:18
  Speaker: There's something in the air or I don't know.
• 2:21
  Speaker: My wife and I got married at the roofless church there, and every
• 2:23
  Speaker: time we go there, it just feels like something's different.
• 2:27
  Speaker: I know in, um, haunted new
• 2:28
  Speaker: Harmony of the book, you say
• 2:30
  Speaker: that you feel that the presence
• 2:31
  Speaker: of the dead lingers heavily
• 2:33
  Speaker: there.
• 2:33
  Speaker: Why do you think that is?
• 2:34
  Speaker: Like, why do you think it's
• 2:35
  Speaker: different there than other
• 2:36
  Speaker: places?
• 2:37
  Speaker: Well, this area has such a deep history, a lot of roots.
• 2:42
  Speaker: I mean, new Harmony was settled before Indiana was even a state.
• 2:47
  Speaker: So, you know, officially in a state, a state.
• 2:50
  Speaker: But, uh, it has a lot of history.
• 2:53
  Speaker: The, um, uh, it was the site of two former utopian societies,
• 2:58
  Speaker: The Harmonists came here in eighteen fourteen and settled
• 3:01
  Speaker: the land and basically built the town like it looks today.
• 3:06
  Speaker: For the most part.
• 3:06
  Speaker: I mean, laid it out in that same grid.
• 3:08
  Speaker: And, uh, they were here for ten years.
• 3:11
  Speaker: And after they left and came the second group, the Owen family.
• 3:15
  Speaker: And, uh, they attempted a communal living society.
• 3:19
  Speaker: It didn't work.
• 3:20
  Speaker: But, you know, they put a lot of time and effort into it, a lot
• 3:23
  Speaker: of them stuck around.
• 3:24
  Speaker: And one thing that I think might contribute to the hauntings here
• 3:29
  Speaker: is that we do investigations here frequently, and we run into
• 3:34
  Speaker: a lot of harmonist ghosts.
• 3:36
  Speaker: And during Father Rapp's time
• 3:38
  Speaker: here, he was the leader of the
• 3:39
  Speaker: Harmonists.
• 3:40
  Speaker: He believed that the second coming of Christ was going to
• 3:43
  Speaker: happen while they were there.
• 3:45
  Speaker: So he told his group that they
• 3:47
  Speaker: were going to live as pure as
• 3:48
  Speaker: possible.
• 3:49
  Speaker: And one of the things they did was they practiced celibacy.
• 3:53
  Speaker: So even if they came to the group as husband and wife, they
• 3:56
  Speaker: were now brother and sister, and they literally did it.
• 3:59
  Speaker: Uh, but I feel like that anybody that might have died during that
• 4:02
  Speaker: time period, they would have said, I'm not going anywhere.
• 4:05
  Speaker: Jesus is coming, so I'm going to stick around here.
• 4:07
  Speaker: And then they got stuck in place.
• 4:09
  Speaker: Oh my God.
• 4:10
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 4:11
  Speaker: You know, that could attribute.
• 4:12
  Speaker: And then also new Harmony you
• 4:14
  Speaker: talked about you touched on the
• 4:15
  Speaker: vibe.
• 4:16
  Speaker: Um, there's something here that's different.
• 4:19
  Speaker: It's different from anywhere else.
• 4:21
  Speaker: I've been.
• 4:21
  Speaker: The energy is different.
• 4:22
  Speaker: I don't know if it's on a ley line or a fault line or
• 4:26
  Speaker: something, but the ground is definitely holding on to energy
• 4:30
  Speaker: that you don't feel like in Evansville or Mount Vernon or
• 4:34
  Speaker: anywhere surrounding this place.
• 4:36
  Speaker: And I feel like that kind of perpetuates some hauntings.
• 4:38
  Speaker: It gives it more hold, allows them to haunt.
• 4:42
  Speaker: So that could be something to do with it.
• 4:44
  Speaker: Plus that people are very possessive of this town.
• 4:47
  Speaker: You see it happen a lot.
• 4:48
  Speaker: I mean, it's called utopia for a reason.
• 4:51
  Speaker: People will move here and they will decide that they.
• 4:53
  Speaker: Their version of utopia looks different than what's presented,
• 4:56
  Speaker: and they'll try to change things and people get very possessive,
• 5:01
  Speaker: very, very much wanting to do things their own way here.
• 5:05
  Speaker: And and they either stay or they leave after about four years.
• 5:08
  Speaker: You see a lot of people move off
• 5:09
  Speaker: because the energy didn't match
• 5:12
  Speaker: theirs.
• 5:14
  Speaker: And you'd mentioned that because
• 5:15
  Speaker: you were you're a Posey County
• 5:16
  Speaker: native, and then you kind of
• 5:17
  Speaker: lived in the northeast for you
• 5:18
  Speaker: kind of bounced around from
• 5:19
  Speaker: twelve different towns, and then
• 5:20
  Speaker: you found your way back to new
• 5:21
  Speaker: Harmony, and you said you were
• 5:23
  Speaker: kind of hesitant to mention that
• 5:25
  Speaker: you were a paranormal
• 5:26
  Speaker: investigator because, you know,
• 5:27
  Speaker: it's a small town and you never
• 5:28
  Speaker: know how people are going to
• 5:29
  Speaker: take that.
• 5:29
  Speaker: So have people warmed up to that or.
• 5:32
  Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
• 5:33
  Speaker: And who was kidding who they knew who I was long before I
• 5:36
  Speaker: even stepped foot in town.
• 5:38
  Speaker: Um, small town grapevines are very prosperous right now.
• 5:43
  Speaker: Um, so, you know, I was just
• 5:44
  Speaker: trying to make sure I wanted a
• 5:46
  Speaker: place where I could heal and I
• 5:47
  Speaker: could live and I could set down
• 5:49
  Speaker: new roots.
• 5:51
  Speaker: Uh, even though I grew up in this area, this, I wanted this
• 5:54
  Speaker: to be my new town, and I wanted to stay here till I died.
• 5:56
  Speaker: And I wanted the people here to like me.
• 5:58
  Speaker: I wanted to be part of the community.
• 6:00
  Speaker: And I was afraid that if I started talking about the fact
• 6:03
  Speaker: that, um, I was a paranormal investigator and a medium, you
• 6:07
  Speaker: know, um, that people would be, you know, fearful of me.
• 6:12
  Speaker: I mean, this town has eight churches and the population is
• 6:16
  Speaker: only under eight hundred people.
• 6:18
  Speaker: So that's one church for every hundred people.
• 6:21
  Speaker: And I thought, wow, you know,
• 6:22
  Speaker: this is kind of Bible Belt
• 6:23
  Speaker: territory.
• 6:24
  Speaker: They're probably not going to like what I do.
• 6:26
  Speaker: So I'll ease in, you know, I'll let them get to know me first,
• 6:30
  Speaker: and I'll do everything I can to make sure that they like me.
• 6:32
  Speaker: And then then we'll talk about it.
• 6:34
  Speaker: But now it's and they've been fine.
• 6:37
  Speaker: I have really, if anybody's resistant to what I do, they
• 6:41
  Speaker: don't talk about it.
• 6:43
  Speaker: But with you know, we didn't talk about this is that I also
• 6:46
  Speaker: do ghost walks here in town.
• 6:48
  Speaker: I do haunted new Harmony ghost walks and they are so popular.
• 6:53
  Speaker: This next year will be our sixth
• 6:55
  Speaker: year doing them, and we pull a
• 6:57
  Speaker: lot of people in to town from,
• 7:00
  Speaker: you know, as far away as you
• 7:01
  Speaker: know, I think we've had them
• 7:03
  Speaker: from California.
• 7:04
  Speaker: We've had them from Iowa, Saint Louis.
• 7:06
  Speaker: We pull in a lot of tourists
• 7:08
  Speaker: that may not have heard of new
• 7:09
  Speaker: Harmony otherwise.
• 7:11
  Speaker: And so that benefits everybody that has a business or a
• 7:14
  Speaker: restaurant or an inn.
• 7:16
  Speaker: Um, you know, they're able to, I'm sure they make more money
• 7:19
  Speaker: off of tourists than I do.
• 7:21
  Speaker: So even if they don't like what you're doing, they appreciate
• 7:23
  Speaker: that you're bringing in business at the very least.
• 7:26
  Speaker: Right, right, right.
• 7:27
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 7:27
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 7:27
  Speaker: And I'm, you know, I'm, I mean, part of the reason why I did
• 7:31
  Speaker: this was because new Harmony had a couple really hard hits in the
• 7:34
  Speaker: last ten years.
• 7:36
  Speaker: Uh, they lost their bridge that connected them to Illinois.
• 7:39
  Speaker: And a lot of that stopped like a
• 7:41
  Speaker: thousand cars a day from coming
• 7:43
  Speaker: through town, and they lost
• 7:45
  Speaker: their school.
• 7:46
  Speaker: And so there just wasn't enough funding.
• 7:48
  Speaker: So they don't even have school.
• 7:49
  Speaker: So it's hard to draw in families with children because they have
• 7:53
  Speaker: to be bused to another town.
• 7:55
  Speaker: So I love new Harmony.
• 7:56
  Speaker: I've always loved new Harmony, even when I was here as a child
• 8:00
  Speaker: and a young adult.
• 8:01
  Speaker: Uh, and I just want to do my part to help support it.
• 8:05
  Speaker: So if what I do helps keep new harmony alive, so to speak, um,
• 8:11
  Speaker: then, you know, then that's, you know, that's definitely one of
• 8:14
  Speaker: my biggest goals.
• 8:15
  Speaker: So, you know, I do enjoy supporting myself doing this,
• 8:18
  Speaker: but I also want new harmony to stay on the map.
• 8:21
  Speaker: That's really important to me.
• 8:23
  Speaker: That is awesome.
• 8:24
  Speaker: Now, speaking of ghost walks and paranormal investigations, you
• 8:27
  Speaker: have an upcoming investigation at the old Arbor Arbor House.
• 8:31
  Speaker: Um, and I, I'm going to butcher the name.
• 8:33
  Speaker: It's Chadwick fentanyl or Freddy Joe.
• 8:35
  Speaker: That's right.
• 8:36
  Speaker: I knew I was gonna butcher that,
• 8:38
  Speaker: and it's probably mispronounced,
• 8:40
  Speaker: too.
• 8:40
  Speaker: That's what the people in new Harmony, how they pronounced it.
• 8:43
  Speaker: So it probably had a totally different pronunciation.
• 8:47
  Speaker: Okay.
• 8:48
  Speaker: And you actually had an experience.
• 8:49
  Speaker: I read about, uh, at this location with a with a spirit
• 8:53
  Speaker: of, I guess, a, an older lady.
• 8:55
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 8:56
  Speaker: So this was when I first moved to town and before I even
• 8:59
  Speaker: thought about writing haunted and Harmony, I had no idea this
• 9:01
  Speaker: town was haunted until I moved here and I was just.
• 9:04
  Speaker: I would walk around town a lot, just admiring the old buildings.
• 9:08
  Speaker: I love old architecture and I
• 9:09
  Speaker: just, I don't know, I geek out
• 9:11
  Speaker: over it.
• 9:12
  Speaker: And I came upon this beautiful
• 9:14
  Speaker: old building on the corner of
• 9:16
  Speaker: Church and Main Street and, um,
• 9:18
  Speaker: called the Arbor House and it
• 9:21
  Speaker: was open.
• 9:21
  Speaker: It was a store so I could
• 9:22
  Speaker: actually walk in there and I was
• 9:25
  Speaker: all in, you know, I wanted to
• 9:26
  Speaker: walk in.
• 9:26
  Speaker: I wasn't thinking about ghosts or anything.
• 9:28
  Speaker: I was just thinking about
• 9:29
  Speaker: getting a chance to look at the
• 9:30
  Speaker: inside of this beautiful
• 9:31
  Speaker: building.
• 9:32
  Speaker: And I walked in and the store
• 9:34
  Speaker: was open, but the lights were
• 9:36
  Speaker: off.
• 9:36
  Speaker: And I thought, well, this is
• 9:37
  Speaker: weird, but I walked in and I was
• 9:39
  Speaker: just kind of poking around and I
• 9:41
  Speaker: got back to, um, a back room on
• 9:43
  Speaker: the first floor that they had a
• 9:45
  Speaker: lot of Christmas decorations and
• 9:47
  Speaker: items.
• 9:47
  Speaker: And, and as I walked in there,
• 9:49
  Speaker: it felt like somebody walked in
• 9:51
  Speaker: behind me.
• 9:53
  Speaker: And I should describe how I
• 9:55
  Speaker: perceive the paranormal to begin
• 9:58
  Speaker: with.
• 9:59
  Speaker: I'm clairaudient.
• 10:00
  Speaker: That's my primary gateway.
• 10:01
  Speaker: So I hear a tone similar to ear
• 10:03
  Speaker: ringing when there's a ghost
• 10:04
  Speaker: nearby.
• 10:05
  Speaker: So a lot of people have kind of prompted them.
• 10:08
  Speaker: If we're in an investigation and you see me turning my head back
• 10:12
  Speaker: and forth, I'm just trying to pinpoint where the ghost is
• 10:15
  Speaker: because it's going to be where the sound is the loudest.
• 10:18
  Speaker: And if I tune into that sound, I
• 10:20
  Speaker: will pull in information, mind
• 10:22
  Speaker: pictures.
• 10:23
  Speaker: I just start collecting a lot of data at that point.
• 10:26
  Speaker: And as I was standing there, I
• 10:28
  Speaker: thought, somebody walk in and my
• 10:30
  Speaker: ears started ringing, but I
• 10:31
  Speaker: whipped around because I really
• 10:33
  Speaker: thought somebody had walked into
• 10:34
  Speaker: the room.
• 10:35
  Speaker: It was such a pronounced feeling.
• 10:37
  Speaker: And I turned around and there was nobody there.
• 10:39
  Speaker: And then I started getting mind pictures, and I saw a woman and
• 10:43
  Speaker: she had, like, iron gray hair pulled back into a bun.
• 10:46
  Speaker: She was wearing a dark or a
• 10:48
  Speaker: dress like a plain dress, and
• 10:49
  Speaker: she had round glasses on and
• 10:52
  Speaker: they were almost like Harry
• 10:53
  Speaker: Potter glasses.
• 10:54
  Speaker: And that seemed really important.
• 10:55
  Speaker: And the two words that came into
• 10:57
  Speaker: my mind were spinster and
• 11:00
  Speaker: schoolmarm.
• 11:01
  Speaker: And I thought, okay, you know, and I saw her and, you know, she
• 11:04
  Speaker: was very welcoming.
• 11:05
  Speaker: She was not scary at all.
• 11:07
  Speaker: And then she just kind of drifted away.
• 11:09
  Speaker: And at this point, I wasn't telling anybody what I did yet.
• 11:12
  Speaker: Um, and as I got to the front door and started to walk
• 11:16
  Speaker: outside, I still hadn't run into anybody that worked there.
• 11:19
  Speaker: The lights suddenly came on and
• 11:21
  Speaker: I'm like, okay, you know, this
• 11:23
  Speaker: is interesting.
• 11:24
  Speaker: So I walked outside and there was the owner and her name was
• 11:27
  Speaker: Barb, and she was sitting outside under the arbor smoking.
• 11:31
  Speaker: And she started chatting me up
• 11:34
  Speaker: and, uh, asked me, you know, my
• 11:36
  Speaker: name and what I did for a
• 11:37
  Speaker: living.
• 11:38
  Speaker: And I just said, oh, I'm an author.
• 11:40
  Speaker: I write books.
• 11:41
  Speaker: And she goes, oh, what kind of books?
• 11:42
  Speaker: And I'm like, oh crap, here we go.
• 11:44
  Speaker: You know, I'm like, uh, I'm a paranormal author and her
• 11:49
  Speaker: eyebrows raised and she smiled.
• 11:51
  Speaker: And I just knew in that
• 11:52
  Speaker: expression that I had met a
• 11:54
  Speaker: kindred.
• 11:55
  Speaker: And I said, so I just took a chance.
• 11:57
  Speaker: I said, I met your ghost, by the way.
• 11:59
  Speaker: And she laughed and she said, which one?
• 12:04
  Speaker: So, um, you know, and we started collecting.
• 12:07
  Speaker: I started getting stories from
• 12:08
  Speaker: her and that was where Haunted
• 12:10
  Speaker: New Harmony began with that one
• 12:11
  Speaker: story.
• 12:12
  Speaker: So then I started talking to
• 12:14
  Speaker: other people and getting more
• 12:15
  Speaker: stories.
• 12:15
  Speaker: Um, and, you know, was able to fill a book and two ghost walks.
• 12:20
  Speaker: But Barb ended up selling the building last year to, um, some
• 12:25
  Speaker: other people in town that ran a gift shop called Lowry Hollow.
• 12:30
  Speaker: And they bought it and they spent about a year refurbishing
• 12:33
  Speaker: the building and restoring it and doing a lot of great things.
• 12:36
  Speaker: So they just opened back up like a month ago.
• 12:40
  Speaker: And they know me.
• 12:42
  Speaker: They've been actually been on my ghost walks and investigations.
• 12:45
  Speaker: They support what I do.
• 12:47
  Speaker: and I asked her it was Len and Rod Clark.
• 12:50
  Speaker: I asked him, I said, would you
• 12:51
  Speaker: let me do a paranormal
• 12:52
  Speaker: investigation or open it up to
• 12:54
  Speaker: the public?
• 12:54
  Speaker: And she said, sure, why not?
• 12:56
  Speaker: So we've already sold, I think, twenty five tickets and we have
• 13:00
  Speaker: twenty eight total.
• 13:01
  Speaker: So three more tickets left and it'll be a fun investigation.
• 13:04
  Speaker: We've already been in there and
• 13:06
  Speaker: poked around a little bit, and
• 13:07
  Speaker: they were answering us on the
• 13:09
  Speaker: spirit box.
• 13:09
  Speaker: So I'm very excited about that.
• 13:11
  Speaker: You mentioned you're a clairaudient, which is I mean,
• 13:14
  Speaker: people have heard of clairvoyant and Clairaudient is where you
• 13:17
  Speaker: basically hear the tones of, you know, different ghosts, I guess,
• 13:20
  Speaker: have different tones.
• 13:21
  Speaker: Is that how that works?
• 13:23
  Speaker: Did you differentiate one from another?
• 13:25
  Speaker: Yeah, I can sometimes, um, I can definitely tell if they are good
• 13:31
  Speaker: or bad immediately.
• 13:32
  Speaker: Um, I just feel it.
• 13:34
  Speaker: And men's male tones tend to,
• 13:37
  Speaker: uh, be lower in register than a
• 13:39
  Speaker: female tone.
• 13:40
  Speaker: And if it's like a spirit guide or, um, someone who has crossed
• 13:46
  Speaker: over and is just coming back to visit like a spirit.
• 13:49
  Speaker: It's a real high pitched sound.
• 13:51
  Speaker: It's very clear.
• 13:51
  Speaker: Like a bell.
• 13:52
  Speaker: Uh. And if I tune into that,
• 13:55
  Speaker: that's when I start getting more
• 13:56
  Speaker: information.
• 13:56
  Speaker: So it's my gateway.
• 13:58
  Speaker: So if I don't want to know any information, I just try to
• 14:00
  Speaker: listen around the sound and don't pay attention to it.
• 14:03
  Speaker: But if I'm doing my medium thing, then I will tune in and
• 14:07
  Speaker: try to get more information.
• 14:09
  Speaker: So you basically always hear the ringing or the noise and you can
• 14:13
  Speaker: tune it out sometimes.
• 14:14
  Speaker: That's interesting.
• 14:16
  Speaker: I can't completely tune it out,
• 14:18
  Speaker: but I've learned how to listen
• 14:19
  Speaker: around it.
• 14:20
  Speaker: Just not paying attention to it.
• 14:22
  Speaker: Because everywhere I go, there's pretty much a ghost.
• 14:25
  Speaker: You know, they, they kind of find me.
• 14:26
  Speaker: I, I'm also a ghost magnet, which is another title of one of
• 14:29
  Speaker: my other books.
• 14:30
  Speaker: Um, they find me and, um, follow me home.
• 14:35
  Speaker: That sounds kind of terrifying.
• 14:37
  Speaker: And it was, it was in the beginning.
• 14:39
  Speaker: It was terrifying.
• 14:40
  Speaker: Uh, because I didn't have any assistance.
• 14:42
  Speaker: I had nobody to help me.
• 14:44
  Speaker: Um, and, you know, it's kind of one of my lessons that I try to
• 14:48
  Speaker: teach people is if you're a medium, uh, before you get too
• 14:52
  Speaker: deep into it and really, you know, because the more you work
• 14:54
  Speaker: it, the stronger you get.
• 14:56
  Speaker: And before you get to that point, make sure you have
• 14:59
  Speaker: somebody in your pocket that you can help you.
• 15:01
  Speaker: If something follows you home, what are you going to do?
• 15:04
  Speaker: You know, are you capable of pushing it out?
• 15:06
  Speaker: If you're not, then you better know a shaman or a medium or
• 15:09
  Speaker: somebody who's stronger than you that can do that.
• 15:11
  Speaker: And I didn't for a long time.
• 15:13
  Speaker: So it was terrifying.
• 15:15
  Speaker: And you did mention that you
• 15:17
  Speaker: eventually did find like a
• 15:18
  Speaker: mentor who was able to kind of
• 15:19
  Speaker: walk you through these sorts of
• 15:21
  Speaker: situations where, you know,
• 15:22
  Speaker: yeah, I've had a lot of mentors
• 15:25
  Speaker: and they've definitely helped
• 15:26
  Speaker: me, but nobody has been able to
• 15:28
  Speaker: fully teach me how to push the
• 15:31
  Speaker: ghost completely out of the
• 15:32
  Speaker: house to get them off of me for
• 15:34
  Speaker: that.
• 15:34
  Speaker: I have a shaman friend in Virginia and he works remotely.
• 15:38
  Speaker: He sends his spirit guides in and they take care of things and
• 15:42
  Speaker: the hauntings gone and he's.
• 15:44
  Speaker: I wrote a book about him as well
• 15:46
  Speaker: called Ruinous Souls, and he has
• 15:48
  Speaker: done this for probably twenty
• 15:50
  Speaker: years.
• 15:51
  Speaker: And he's like a modern day superhero.
• 15:54
  Speaker: I swear he had a hard time with
• 15:56
  Speaker: that book, because nobody really
• 15:57
  Speaker: was hard for people to
• 15:59
  Speaker: conceptualize that.
• 16:00
  Speaker: I called my friend in Virginia, and he sent his invisible
• 16:04
  Speaker: friends to help me, and the haunting went away.
• 16:07
  Speaker: Um, but, you know, I can tell you that, you know, not only me,
• 16:10
  Speaker: but all the people in the book that I wrote about and all the
• 16:12
  Speaker: people he's helped over the years can attest to the fact
• 16:14
  Speaker: that what he does works.
• 16:16
  Speaker: So I'm happy, very blessed to have him in my life.
• 16:20
  Speaker: When you're doing like a paranormal investigation, what
• 16:23
  Speaker: is your goal?
• 16:24
  Speaker: Is it to help the resident of
• 16:26
  Speaker: the building or the home, or is
• 16:28
  Speaker: it to help the spirit cross
• 16:30
  Speaker: over?
• 16:30
  Speaker: Or what exactly are you trying to do?
• 16:33
  Speaker: A lot of times it just depends on the circumstance.
• 16:36
  Speaker: I am called to do a lot of house walkthroughs, and I will go in
• 16:40
  Speaker: and I'll just see what's there.
• 16:42
  Speaker: If there's, um, you know, most
• 16:45
  Speaker: of the time it's a former
• 16:46
  Speaker: homeowner.
• 16:47
  Speaker: That's what it's almost always
• 16:48
  Speaker: been a former homeowner that
• 16:50
  Speaker: loves their home and they just
• 16:51
  Speaker: stayed and they don't want to be
• 16:52
  Speaker: crossed over.
• 16:53
  Speaker: Like I always give them the option I can help them cross if
• 16:55
  Speaker: they want to cross.
• 16:57
  Speaker: Um, but none of them want to, they're happy where they are.
• 17:00
  Speaker: They just want to share the house.
• 17:01
  Speaker: Um, and, and then I can provide that information to the
• 17:05
  Speaker: homeowner to let them know, you know, look, you know, just
• 17:09
  Speaker: they're aware of you, you're aware of them.
• 17:11
  Speaker: Just if they start doing
• 17:12
  Speaker: something you perceive as scary,
• 17:13
  Speaker: ask them to stop because it's
• 17:15
  Speaker: just, uh, you know, a woman from
• 17:17
  Speaker: the nineteen forties in her
• 17:19
  Speaker: kitchen, you know, baking a
• 17:20
  Speaker: cake.
• 17:20
  Speaker: And, uh, she's not aware that
• 17:22
  Speaker: she's making sounds that's
• 17:23
  Speaker: scaring you.
• 17:24
  Speaker: So, uh, other situations, a lot of times it's, uh, just for the
• 17:29
  Speaker: historical information, like there's a lot of things that
• 17:32
  Speaker: have been lost to history.
• 17:34
  Speaker: And I think a lot of things that are covered up due to wealth,
• 17:37
  Speaker: like somebody got murdered, sometimes it can be covered up.
• 17:40
  Speaker: So we've done a lot of investigations where we've just
• 17:43
  Speaker: tried to learn more information.
• 17:44
  Speaker: You know, of course, we're always going to help them if
• 17:46
  Speaker: they want help.
• 17:47
  Speaker: But, you know, so far, very few
• 17:49
  Speaker: of them have wanted any, any
• 17:50
  Speaker: assistance in crossing over, but
• 17:52
  Speaker: they're willing to share
• 17:54
  Speaker: information.
• 17:55
  Speaker: So that's always good.
• 17:57
  Speaker: What are ghosts doing?
• 17:58
  Speaker: Like, I mean, so say they're you find a ghost in a house or say
• 18:01
  Speaker: the, the, the older lady at the Arbor House that you were at,
• 18:04
  Speaker: what is she doing is just sitting in a rocking chair for
• 18:07
  Speaker: eternity, or what do you think that they do to fill their day?
• 18:09
  Speaker: Or what is, you know, do you know what they do?
• 18:12
  Speaker: I think it's different for all of them.
• 18:14
  Speaker: I think it depends on their
• 18:16
  Speaker: level of what they see and what
• 18:18
  Speaker: they their, you know, what they
• 18:20
  Speaker: perceive.
• 18:20
  Speaker: Sometimes they, they don't even
• 18:22
  Speaker: know they're dead and they're
• 18:23
  Speaker: just going about their life like
• 18:24
  Speaker: they would.
• 18:25
  Speaker: They see everything like it was
• 18:26
  Speaker: when they were there in their
• 18:27
  Speaker: day.
• 18:28
  Speaker: And other times, um, they see a little bit of what we see and a
• 18:32
  Speaker: little bit of what they see.
• 18:33
  Speaker: And I don't feel like they see us all the time.
• 18:35
  Speaker: I feel like they're living their lives.
• 18:37
  Speaker: And, uh, it makes me think a lot about the movie.
• 18:40
  Speaker: The Others with Nicole Kidman.
• 18:42
  Speaker: One of my favorite ghost movies
• 18:43
  Speaker: because I feel like that's
• 18:45
  Speaker: pretty accurate with what they
• 18:47
  Speaker: see.
• 18:47
  Speaker: Like they'll catch glimpses of us.
• 18:49
  Speaker: They don't always see us.
• 18:51
  Speaker: And, um, you know, so sometimes it's nice just to be able to
• 18:54
  Speaker: tell them, look, other people are here, you know, you're what
• 18:57
  Speaker: you're hearing is not, you know, not a ghost.
• 18:59
  Speaker: You are the ghost, right?
• 19:01
  Speaker: You know, and you mentioned new Harmony is a thin.
• 19:05
  Speaker: You call it a thin place.
• 19:06
  Speaker: Um, I guess the, the line between the living and the dead
• 19:10
  Speaker: is thinner in that area.
• 19:11
  Speaker: You think?
• 19:12
  Speaker: Um, so maybe that's why there's more activity in that town.
• 19:16
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 19:17
  Speaker: You know, and that's not a term I coined myself.
• 19:20
  Speaker: I learned that from the locals.
• 19:22
  Speaker: Uh, they all talk about it.
• 19:24
  Speaker: Yeah, they talk about it a lot.
• 19:25
  Speaker: You know, you think in a town
• 19:27
  Speaker: with such a small population
• 19:29
  Speaker: that there would be a lot of
• 19:31
  Speaker: people that scoff at what I do,
• 19:33
  Speaker: but they don't, because it's so
• 19:35
  Speaker: haunted that I feel like
• 19:36
  Speaker: everybody that lives here has
• 19:37
  Speaker: either had an experience or know
• 19:40
  Speaker: somebody that's had an
• 19:41
  Speaker: experience.
• 19:42
  Speaker: So there there's a lot of believers here that you wouldn't
• 19:45
  Speaker: think otherwise when you think of or when I think of hauntings,
• 19:48
  Speaker: I always think of, you know, the quintessential haunted house or
• 19:51
  Speaker: the scary old places.
• 19:53
  Speaker: But I don't think of like a newly built Dollar General.
• 19:56
  Speaker: And you actually write about a
• 19:57
  Speaker: situation where there's a newly
• 19:58
  Speaker: built Dollar General that was
• 20:00
  Speaker: haunted.
• 20:00
  Speaker: The workers there were all kind of freaked out and everything.
• 20:02
  Speaker: So that's something that's kind of interesting that you came
• 20:04
  Speaker: across that that was crazy.
• 20:08
  Speaker: I mean, you know, in this town, all we had up until that point
• 20:11
  Speaker: was, um, two convenience stores and gas stations.
• 20:15
  Speaker: We didn't have our grocery store
• 20:16
  Speaker: closed like probably twenty
• 20:18
  Speaker: years ago.
• 20:18
  Speaker: So for us, we have to drive a half an hour, forty five minutes
• 20:23
  Speaker: to Evansville to get groceries or to Mount Vernon.
• 20:25
  Speaker: But, um, it, you know, it was such a pain.
• 20:28
  Speaker: And when we heard there was a Dollar General opening here, a
• 20:31
  Speaker: lot of us were really excited because it meant not having to
• 20:34
  Speaker: drive to Evansville to get, you know, some basic supplies and,
• 20:38
  Speaker: you know, went in and I really wasn't thinking about ghosts.
• 20:41
  Speaker: I never really tuned in and felt anything, but I was friends with
• 20:45
  Speaker: a few people that worked there because, I mean, when you're in
• 20:47
  Speaker: there every other day, you start to learn people's names and
• 20:51
  Speaker: become friends with them.
• 20:52
  Speaker: And one woman posted that, you know, we've had some crazy
• 20:56
  Speaker: things happen at the Dollar General and then, you know,
• 20:59
  Speaker: talking about some weird paranormal stuff happening.
• 21:02
  Speaker: So she was actually working when she posted that and I messaged
• 21:06
  Speaker: her and I'm like, hey, can I come down and talk to you?
• 21:10
  Speaker: And I wasn't even writing
• 21:12
  Speaker: haunted Posey County at that
• 21:14
  Speaker: point.
• 21:15
  Speaker: I was just intrigued by, like you said, how can a brand new
• 21:19
  Speaker: building have a haunting?
• 21:20
  Speaker: Right?
• 21:20
  Speaker: And I went down there and the
• 21:22
  Speaker: story that they told me was just
• 21:24
  Speaker: phenomenal.
• 21:25
  Speaker: And I talked to a lot of people
• 21:26
  Speaker: that worked there and had weird
• 21:28
  Speaker: things happen.
• 21:29
  Speaker: They'd see things.
• 21:30
  Speaker: They'd hear footsteps coming up
• 21:31
  Speaker: to the office door at night when
• 21:33
  Speaker: the doors were locked, and
• 21:34
  Speaker: they'd see shadows in the
• 21:35
  Speaker: cameras at night when they were
• 21:37
  Speaker: there.
• 21:38
  Speaker: But the one thing that really got my attention was what had
• 21:41
  Speaker: happened to Julie.
• 21:43
  Speaker: Um, she lived in lives in town, so if there was an alarm call,
• 21:48
  Speaker: she was always the first one that would have to go there.
• 21:52
  Speaker: And she got there and the alarm
• 21:54
  Speaker: had gone off and they looked
• 21:55
  Speaker: around.
• 21:55
  Speaker: There was nothing out of place, nothing that could explain it.
• 21:58
  Speaker: So she went back home, and the
• 22:01
  Speaker: next morning the manager came in
• 22:02
  Speaker: and pulled the cameras for that
• 22:05
  Speaker: time period.
• 22:06
  Speaker: And what she saw was really spine tingling.
• 22:10
  Speaker: She saw a basketball sized orb
• 22:13
  Speaker: of light travel all the way
• 22:15
  Speaker: down.
• 22:15
  Speaker: One of the really long aisles of
• 22:18
  Speaker: the store, make a U-turn, go
• 22:20
  Speaker: down the next aisle, and then
• 22:22
  Speaker: shoot right into a motion
• 22:23
  Speaker: sensor.
• 22:25
  Speaker: And it's that the motion sensor off.
• 22:26
  Speaker: So, uh, that's when I went down.
• 22:29
  Speaker: And, um, they let me do as many paranormal investigation there.
• 22:33
  Speaker: When the store closed, a few of us stayed after and we used a
• 22:36
  Speaker: spirit box, and I was just trying to tune in and I kept
• 22:40
  Speaker: picking up on a man, um, kind of a heavyset man, probably in his
• 22:45
  Speaker: fifties or 60s with dark hair.
• 22:46
  Speaker: And I saw him in a dark trench coat.
• 22:49
  Speaker: And I don't know if he was using that to try to invoke fear.
• 22:52
  Speaker: Like, you know, he was scared, you know?
• 22:55
  Speaker: But then I was also picking up on a little girl.
• 22:57
  Speaker: So that was what was interesting.
• 23:00
  Speaker: And, um, just over time, I, you
• 23:01
  Speaker: know, that night actually, I
• 23:03
  Speaker: walked back there and I said,
• 23:04
  Speaker: look, you're scaring the people
• 23:05
  Speaker: that work here and they're not
• 23:07
  Speaker: going to have anybody left to
• 23:08
  Speaker: work here if you keep scaring
• 23:10
  Speaker: them off.
• 23:10
  Speaker: And, um, things did calm down.
• 23:13
  Speaker: But, uh, I talked to the manager not long ago, and she's not
• 23:17
  Speaker: unconvinced that whatever was there didn't follow me home,
• 23:20
  Speaker: which is very possible.
• 23:22
  Speaker: So we think it came with the land.
• 23:25
  Speaker: Um, there used to be.
• 23:26
  Speaker: There's been a lot of things there.
• 23:27
  Speaker: I mean, you know, over time, I
• 23:29
  Speaker: mean, you know, Native Americans
• 23:30
  Speaker: lived here back two thousand
• 23:32
  Speaker: years ago.
• 23:33
  Speaker: So Before that, right before, probably ten years before it was
• 23:37
  Speaker: the Dollar General.
• 23:38
  Speaker: It was a barbecue country store.
• 23:41
  Speaker: And to my knowledge, nobody died there.
• 23:43
  Speaker: But a man that used to live next door had a trailer back in the
• 23:47
  Speaker: back, and he did had a heart attack and died there.
• 23:50
  Speaker: And some people say that who I
• 23:51
  Speaker: described sounds an awful lot
• 23:53
  Speaker: like him.
• 23:54
  Speaker: So maybe he drifted over, I don't know.
• 23:56
  Speaker: They don't have to die in a place to haunt it though.
• 23:59
  Speaker: So he, you know, could have been come, come with a driver or come
• 24:02
  Speaker: with a customer or an employee.
• 24:04
  Speaker: They took a look and said, hey, I think we'll just hang out here
• 24:07
  Speaker: for a while.
• 24:09
  Speaker: I don't know, but now I talked to him that really nothing has
• 24:11
  Speaker: happened in a while.
• 24:12
  Speaker: So are there places that are
• 24:14
  Speaker: more likely to be haunted than
• 24:16
  Speaker: others?
• 24:16
  Speaker: I mean, I was kind of thinking about it and like, you never
• 24:20
  Speaker: really hear about haunted nursing homes, even though
• 24:22
  Speaker: people are dying all the times in nursing homes and hospitals,
• 24:24
  Speaker: you don't hear a lot of haunted nursing home stories or, or I
• 24:27
  Speaker: don't I like to I've investigated a lot of yeah,
• 24:31
  Speaker: yeah, I've investigated a lot of nursing homes and hospitals and
• 24:36
  Speaker: both are very haunted.
• 24:38
  Speaker: Um, you know, you're dealing with people that may have been
• 24:41
  Speaker: confused when they were, when they were passing away.
• 24:43
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 24:43
  Speaker: We, um, we did the, um, Indiana State asylum and not too long
• 24:49
  Speaker: ago, we actually went back twice and we plan to keep going back.
• 24:52
  Speaker: And part of that was an old nursing home.
• 24:54
  Speaker: And that was the most active out of, uh, there was an old, uh,
• 24:58
  Speaker: the ruins from an old tuberculosis hospital and a lot
• 25:01
  Speaker: of other outbuildings.
• 25:02
  Speaker: But the old nursing home was the most haunted.
• 25:05
  Speaker: So I think, you know, it has to
• 25:07
  Speaker: be a place where people lived or
• 25:09
  Speaker: people loved.
• 25:10
  Speaker: If it's beloved, they're probably going to stick around.
• 25:13
  Speaker: Um, old beautiful houses, old, beautiful historic houses, like,
• 25:18
  Speaker: you know, you drive down like New Albany and you see all these
• 25:21
  Speaker: gorgeous old houses or the riverfront, Mount Vernon.
• 25:24
  Speaker: And you know, to me, there's no
• 25:25
  Speaker: doubt in my mind that there's a
• 25:27
  Speaker: ghost there.
• 25:27
  Speaker: Maybe two, maybe three, maybe more.
• 25:30
  Speaker: Um, and if the people don't feel
• 25:31
  Speaker: them, it doesn't mean it's not
• 25:33
  Speaker: haunted.
• 25:33
  Speaker: It just means that the ghosts are staying quiet.
• 25:36
  Speaker: They don't want to be found out.
• 25:38
  Speaker: You know, they're laying low.
• 25:39
  Speaker: They are laying low and for good reason in a lot of cases,
• 25:42
  Speaker: because, you know, if they've ever turned on a TV and watched
• 25:45
  Speaker: Ghost Adventures, they may realize that, you know, people
• 25:48
  Speaker: are going to come in and start looking for them and maybe they
• 25:51
  Speaker: don't want to be found.
• 25:53
  Speaker: You mentioned that you bring a spirit box.
• 25:55
  Speaker: Do you have any other equipment
• 25:56
  Speaker: with you when you go on these
• 25:57
  Speaker: investigations?
• 25:58
  Speaker: Yeah, we have actually have a lot of equipment.
• 26:01
  Speaker: I happen to like the spirit box because we can get um, audio
• 26:07
  Speaker: that that is clearly understood.
• 26:08
  Speaker: I mean, we will also just do EVP
• 26:10
  Speaker: sessions where we're just using
• 26:12
  Speaker: our recorders.
• 26:13
  Speaker: And for me, those are really interesting, but you have to
• 26:17
  Speaker: have the right control situation, like small groups,
• 26:21
  Speaker: and you have to be aware of everything going on in the room.
• 26:25
  Speaker: Like if somebody whispers, it's going to sound like an EVP.
• 26:28
  Speaker: So, um, that's why a lot of my public events.
• 26:32
  Speaker: We do more spirit box than anything, because you can't
• 26:35
  Speaker: necessarily trust an EVP in a group of more than five people.
• 26:39
  Speaker: Uh, but we also have an SLS camera which uses the Connect's
• 26:43
  Speaker: technology and shows the stick figures on the screen.
• 26:47
  Speaker: We actually have two of those for the team, and we have a
• 26:50
  Speaker: portal which hooks up to, um, the, um, SB eleven spirit box.
• 26:57
  Speaker: And uh, I'm not as sold on that.
• 26:59
  Speaker: I feel like a lot of other
• 27:01
  Speaker: people really love it, but it
• 27:03
  Speaker: feels like it shortens, it takes
• 27:04
  Speaker: away that choppiness, but it
• 27:06
  Speaker: shortens the reactions or the
• 27:07
  Speaker: answers.
• 27:08
  Speaker: So it's for me harder to understand.
• 27:11
  Speaker: Uh, we use REM pods and motion
• 27:14
  Speaker: sensors and, um, I don't know,
• 27:17
  Speaker: look over at my equipment when
• 27:20
  Speaker: there's quite a bit of, you
• 27:21
  Speaker: know, quite a bit of, you know,
• 27:22
  Speaker: we've, we've used flashlights,
• 27:24
  Speaker: mag lights in the past to get
• 27:26
  Speaker: reactions.
• 27:26
  Speaker: But, you know, I'm always a skeptic on some of these things.
• 27:30
  Speaker: like, you know, I've looked into the maglite phenomena, and
• 27:34
  Speaker: sometimes it creates an arc that causes the light to go on.
• 27:37
  Speaker: So you can't always trust that it's a ghostly reaction unless
• 27:41
  Speaker: it's well timed.
• 27:43
  Speaker: Well, you mentioned you were a skeptic.
• 27:45
  Speaker: I know you were interviewed on the Unseen Paranormal podcast
• 27:47
  Speaker: last year and you mentioned that you're you are a skeptic when it
• 27:50
  Speaker: comes to paranormal things, which is interesting.
• 27:52
  Speaker: And you kind of have to see it to believe it yourself.
• 27:56
  Speaker: And, you know, a lot of people
• 27:57
  Speaker: can understand this because
• 27:58
  Speaker: there's a lot of people out
• 28:00
  Speaker: there faking evidence to get
• 28:01
  Speaker: attention.
• 28:02
  Speaker: And, and then also, you know, at
• 28:05
  Speaker: less nefarious people who don't
• 28:07
  Speaker: understand or they're reaching
• 28:09
  Speaker: for everything.
• 28:10
  Speaker: Like I've had a lot of people on
• 28:12
  Speaker: my ghost walks come and show me
• 28:14
  Speaker: pictures of dust orbs or most
• 28:16
  Speaker: moisture orbs.
• 28:17
  Speaker: And I am not a fan of orb pictures.
• 28:19
  Speaker: Um, you can't convince me that
• 28:21
  Speaker: most of them are ghost pictures
• 28:23
  Speaker: of windows.
• 28:24
  Speaker: Um, it's always a difficult one because a lot of times you get
• 28:27
  Speaker: the reflection from the trees or the clouds And, uh, as humans,
• 28:31
  Speaker: we're programmed in to find faces in things.
• 28:34
  Speaker: So it's easy for us to look at
• 28:36
  Speaker: that reflection of a tree and
• 28:38
  Speaker: say, oh, look, there's a person
• 28:39
  Speaker: there.
• 28:40
  Speaker: Um, so yeah, you know, and I've had people send me footage and
• 28:44
  Speaker: send, send me pictures and stuff that I can't debunk.
• 28:48
  Speaker: And I'm like, yeah, it could be
• 28:49
  Speaker: something, you know, and then I
• 28:50
  Speaker: also need to dig into the
• 28:51
  Speaker: location.
• 28:52
  Speaker: Like, have you already had a lot of things happen here?
• 28:56
  Speaker: Is this a haunted house then?
• 28:57
  Speaker: Yeah, maybe that is something, you know, they have a footage of
• 29:01
  Speaker: an orb moving through a room in a way that it wouldn't be dust,
• 29:04
  Speaker: moisture or bugs.
• 29:06
  Speaker: Then I may pay attention to it.
• 29:07
  Speaker: Um, but I just think that we jump too quickly to call things
• 29:12
  Speaker: paranormal when they're not.
• 29:15
  Speaker: Uh, I once took a picture, um,
• 29:18
  Speaker: in a store window during my
• 29:20
  Speaker: ghost walk and looked at it
• 29:23
  Speaker: afterwards and was just
• 29:25
  Speaker: astounded.
• 29:26
  Speaker: It looked like a child running across the room, and then I
• 29:30
  Speaker: showed it to somebody else and they were like, wow.
• 29:32
  Speaker: And then we showed it to
• 29:33
  Speaker: somebody else and they said,
• 29:34
  Speaker: that's your hand reflected in
• 29:36
  Speaker: the glass.
• 29:37
  Speaker: Oh, wow.
• 29:38
  Speaker: And sure enough, when you looked at it in that light, you're
• 29:41
  Speaker: like, oh crap.
• 29:42
  Speaker: You know, I thought I really had
• 29:43
  Speaker: something good, but I have
• 29:44
  Speaker: gotten a lot of really
• 29:45
  Speaker: interesting pictures.
• 29:46
  Speaker: And, you know, especially if I
• 29:48
  Speaker: take it, I know it's not
• 29:50
  Speaker: fraudulent because I wouldn't do
• 29:52
  Speaker: that.
• 29:52
  Speaker: And, you know, um, I took it.
• 29:55
  Speaker: So, um, I don't know.
• 29:57
  Speaker: Or if somebody I trust took it, it really it's hard, you know,
• 30:01
  Speaker: it's hard to believe everything.
• 30:03
  Speaker: Oh, exactly.
• 30:04
  Speaker: And it's so easy to manipulate pictures and videos.
• 30:06
  Speaker: It's like you don't know what to believe anymore.
• 30:08
  Speaker: I mean, you could see a ghost standing right in front of the
• 30:11
  Speaker: camera, and you just don't know what you're looking at because,
• 30:13
  Speaker: you know, anybody can really do that with technology.
• 30:16
  Speaker: So, you know, I did get, um, I've been hanging on to it for a
• 30:19
  Speaker: couple of weeks now because I just keep looking at it.
• 30:22
  Speaker: But, um, somebody who attended
• 30:23
  Speaker: one of my ghost walks back in
• 30:25
  Speaker: June was just going through his
• 30:27
  Speaker: pictures, getting ready to throw
• 30:29
  Speaker: things out.
• 30:29
  Speaker: He. I remember him from the tour because he had been taking a lot
• 30:33
  Speaker: of video, and he was kind of leaving the group at times and
• 30:36
  Speaker: walking towards buildings.
• 30:37
  Speaker: And we were at the Fauntleroy House, which to me is the most
• 30:41
  Speaker: haunted building in town.
• 30:43
  Speaker: And he was filming in through the window and he caught, um, he
• 30:49
  Speaker: caught the shape of it looked like a child crossing, crossing
• 30:52
  Speaker: into the room.
• 30:53
  Speaker: And it was semi-transparent.
• 30:56
  Speaker: It was white.
• 30:57
  Speaker: So, you know, to me it looked like a ghost.
• 30:59
  Speaker: And I've broken it down.
• 31:00
  Speaker: I've keep looking at it and trying to determine, you know,
• 31:03
  Speaker: could this be a reflection.
• 31:05
  Speaker: Um I don't know.
• 31:07
  Speaker: So I'm, I do have a, um, I have a TikTok account, which is.
• 31:11
  Speaker: Joni Mehan nine thirty three.
• 31:14
  Speaker: And I'm going to probably put it
• 31:15
  Speaker: up as a TikTok video in the next
• 31:17
  Speaker: couple days.
• 31:18
  Speaker: I hate doing that because somebody's going to look at it
• 31:20
  Speaker: and say, oh, that's not real.
• 31:22
  Speaker: You know, just like, you know, I
• 31:24
  Speaker: might do, I wouldn't say it to
• 31:26
  Speaker: somebody else.
• 31:27
  Speaker: I would just keep scrolling.
• 31:28
  Speaker: But I know I'm going to get, you
• 31:30
  Speaker: know, putting things out there
• 31:31
  Speaker: because, you know, somebody's
• 31:32
  Speaker: going to say, oh, that's not
• 31:34
  Speaker: real.
• 31:34
  Speaker: You're going to take flak for that kind of stuff.
• 31:36
  Speaker: I mean, just that comes with the game.
• 31:38
  Speaker: I think it does.
• 31:39
  Speaker: It does.
• 31:40
  Speaker: Definitely.
• 31:41
  Speaker: Do you notice that animals detect ghosts, or have you seen
• 31:45
  Speaker: that they have some sort of special sensory, you know, where
• 31:48
  Speaker: they can detect if there's some sort of spirit or ghost activity
• 31:52
  Speaker: in a room or.
• 31:53
  Speaker: Oh, absolutely.
• 31:55
  Speaker: Absolutely.
• 31:56
  Speaker: It's funny because, um, my
• 31:57
  Speaker: current dog Holly, I've had her
• 31:59
  Speaker: for almost three years now and
• 32:01
  Speaker: she really has never, um, shown
• 32:04
  Speaker: any interest in anything going
• 32:06
  Speaker: on.
• 32:07
  Speaker: And neither did my dog before her, but my cats.
• 32:10
  Speaker: Oh my gosh, if there's a ghost in the room, they'll all be
• 32:13
  Speaker: looking at it, you know, and I have five cats, you know, it's,
• 32:16
  Speaker: it's a problem, right?
• 32:19
  Speaker: Um, you know, I'm the crazy cat lady in town, I guess.
• 32:23
  Speaker: Um, but they will all be staring.
• 32:26
  Speaker: And it's always in the same
• 32:27
  Speaker: direction that I'm hearing the
• 32:29
  Speaker: tone.
• 32:30
  Speaker: So I can, you know, in the beginning when I was first, you
• 32:33
  Speaker: know, really getting to understand my clear audience,
• 32:36
  Speaker: they were excellent at helping me learn about it because and
• 32:41
  Speaker: trust it really because.
• 32:42
  Speaker: But what gets really eerie is like at night, I will often lay
• 32:45
  Speaker: in bed and read and I'll have a cat in there with me staring
• 32:49
  Speaker: right above my head.
• 32:50
  Speaker: Oh my God, that is.
• 32:51
  Speaker: That's creepy.
• 32:52
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 32:53
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 32:53
  Speaker: You know, and then I have to
• 32:54
  Speaker: turn off the light and go to
• 32:55
  Speaker: sleep.
• 32:56
  Speaker: So, you know, it's like I kind of gotten used to it by now.
• 33:00
  Speaker: If I know if they're gonna.
• 33:02
  Speaker: They're wanting to harm me or not.
• 33:04
  Speaker: Um, and I haven't been hurt yet, so there's that.
• 33:08
  Speaker: Do you think ghosts can interact with like physical?
• 33:10
  Speaker: I mean, are they able to touch people and glasses and throw
• 33:15
  Speaker: things off the shelves?
• 33:16
  Speaker: Um, how are they able, how are
• 33:18
  Speaker: some able to do that and others
• 33:19
  Speaker: can't?
• 33:20
  Speaker: I think it's just their level ability.
• 33:22
  Speaker: Um, I've often toyed around with the idea that some of the ones
• 33:26
  Speaker: with higher level abilities able to physically touch.
• 33:29
  Speaker: Maybe they were medium psychic mediums in real life.
• 33:32
  Speaker: Maybe they had some kind of ability going into death that
• 33:35
  Speaker: they're able to tap into.
• 33:37
  Speaker: So it's almost the opposite on the other side.
• 33:40
  Speaker: Um, I don't know.
• 33:42
  Speaker: But I do know that there's a lot of them that I feel and hear and
• 33:45
  Speaker: they never do one thing.
• 33:47
  Speaker: And there's others, I've had them sit on the bed beside me.
• 33:50
  Speaker: Um, and that'll, that'll get you up pretty quickly.
• 33:54
  Speaker: You know, when you live alone and you feel somebody sit on the
• 33:57
  Speaker: side of your bed in the middle of the night, you know.
• 33:59
  Speaker: No kidding.
• 33:59
  Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 34:01
  Speaker: I've had that happen a lot of times.
• 34:03
  Speaker: So it's not fun.
• 34:04
  Speaker: Do you think there are people
• 34:06
  Speaker: who are more likely to become
• 34:09
  Speaker: ghosts or to stick around in the
• 34:11
  Speaker: afterlife?
• 34:12
  Speaker: Um. Definitely suicides.
• 34:13
  Speaker: I feel like almost all suicides stay earthbound because I've
• 34:17
  Speaker: crossed over a number of them.
• 34:19
  Speaker: Um, because, you know, they're taught that, uh, suicide is a
• 34:23
  Speaker: mortal sin and that they go anywhere, they're going to hell.
• 34:25
  Speaker: And I personally don't believe in hell.
• 34:28
  Speaker: I believe that everybody goes to
• 34:31
  Speaker: heaven, but maybe not the
• 34:32
  Speaker: version that most people think
• 34:33
  Speaker: of.
• 34:34
  Speaker: I feel like there's, you know,
• 34:35
  Speaker: treatment and maybe hospitals
• 34:37
  Speaker: or, you know, some sort of
• 34:39
  Speaker: healing there.
• 34:40
  Speaker: Um, when they do that, that it's
• 34:42
  Speaker: a human condition and they can't
• 34:44
  Speaker: be faulted for something that
• 34:45
  Speaker: happened because every single
• 34:46
  Speaker: one of them I run into has
• 34:48
  Speaker: regretted, uh, the actual act of
• 34:51
  Speaker: suicide.
• 34:52
  Speaker: So, you know, and I had first hand experience.
• 34:55
  Speaker: My fourteen year old niece
• 34:56
  Speaker: committed suicide back years
• 34:58
  Speaker: ago.
• 34:59
  Speaker: When I went over to the house, she was still very much there.
• 35:01
  Speaker: So, um, I helped cross her over.
• 35:05
  Speaker: So yeah, that was that was a hard one.
• 35:10
  Speaker: That was a hard one, I can imagine.
• 35:12
  Speaker: So you're able to talk to, I mean, are you able to have
• 35:14
  Speaker: conversations, um, with these people or ghosts a little bit?
• 35:20
  Speaker: Um, you No, I haven't really, I haven't really expanded my
• 35:25
  Speaker: abilities because there's a part of me that's fearful that, look
• 35:28
  Speaker: what I'm getting right now with what I do, what I have, um, if I
• 35:32
  Speaker: get really good, it may be really bad, but yes, I will hear
• 35:35
  Speaker: back and forth.
• 35:36
  Speaker: I can have conversations.
• 35:38
  Speaker: I have found that when I'm doing
• 35:40
  Speaker: a walkthrough of a house, um, I
• 35:43
  Speaker: will bring pen and paper and I
• 35:45
  Speaker: can write down, um, it's almost
• 35:48
  Speaker: automatic writing where I start
• 35:50
  Speaker: getting more information and I
• 35:51
  Speaker: can get a lot more information
• 35:53
  Speaker: that way than I can just sitting
• 35:54
  Speaker: there.
• 35:55
  Speaker: But um, yeah, I'll hear back and forth.
• 35:57
  Speaker: And um, I had a friend, um, who was actually in one of my books,
• 36:01
  Speaker: bones in the basement pass away probably about five years ago,
• 36:05
  Speaker: maybe six years ago.
• 36:07
  Speaker: He was, um, I didn't know he had died and I was making my bed and
• 36:13
  Speaker: all of a sudden I hear this voice in my head, well, you
• 36:15
  Speaker: missed a spot or something.
• 36:17
  Speaker: You know, you're not doing a very good job there, are you?
• 36:20
  Speaker: And I'm like, I was like, Bill, what are you doing here?
• 36:26
  Speaker: Like, I knew who it was by, you know, who, how he acted.
• 36:29
  Speaker: And I said, I didn't know you were dead.
• 36:32
  Speaker: And he goes, oh yeah, it's great because I can walk through walls
• 36:34
  Speaker: and do all that ghost shit.
• 36:36
  Speaker: And it was like, and he wasn't there.
• 36:37
  Speaker: He was just jubilant because he
• 36:39
  Speaker: had had a heart condition for
• 36:40
  Speaker: years and years, and he was a
• 36:42
  Speaker: psychic medium.
• 36:43
  Speaker: He was really good, too.
• 36:45
  Speaker: He would never really call himself a psychic medium, but he
• 36:47
  Speaker: picked up on so much stuff and, um, and then he was gone, you
• 36:51
  Speaker: know, because he had other places to be.
• 36:53
  Speaker: And, uh, so that was just fascinating to me.
• 36:57
  Speaker: Wow.
• 36:57
  Speaker: So he actually reported because you don't hear that very often
• 37:00
  Speaker: where you get to hear what actually is on the other side.
• 37:02
  Speaker: So he says, oh, I can walk through walls and stuff.
• 37:05
  Speaker: So, I mean, do any of them ever
• 37:07
  Speaker: tell you what the afterlife is
• 37:08
  Speaker: like?
• 37:08
  Speaker: Like, what's it like over there?
• 37:10
  Speaker: Um, I have asked, um, I've
• 37:12
  Speaker: definitely asked every
• 37:14
  Speaker: investigation because I want to
• 37:15
  Speaker: know.
• 37:16
  Speaker: I don't ask him.
• 37:17
  Speaker: I used to ask him what heaven
• 37:18
  Speaker: looks like, but I realized that
• 37:20
  Speaker: they're ghosts.
• 37:20
  Speaker: They're earthbound.
• 37:21
  Speaker: They've never been to heaven, so
• 37:22
  Speaker: they don't know what heaven
• 37:23
  Speaker: looks like.
• 37:23
  Speaker: But I do a lot of things.
• 37:25
  Speaker: Like, I'll ask them, um, I want
• 37:27
  Speaker: to know things like, can you see
• 37:30
  Speaker: me?
• 37:30
  Speaker: Like I'll put I always put three fingers up and I'll say, how
• 37:33
  Speaker: many fingers, how many fingers am I holding up?
• 37:36
  Speaker: And I have gotten that answered before.
• 37:38
  Speaker: So then I can validate the fact that they can actually
• 37:41
  Speaker: physically see us.
• 37:42
  Speaker: And then I'll ask them questions like, what town are we in?
• 37:46
  Speaker: Or what town are you from?
• 37:48
  Speaker: And it's really funny because we
• 37:49
  Speaker: were doing an investigation at
• 37:51
  Speaker: the Culbertson Mansion and New
• 37:53
  Speaker: Albany, Indiana, and, um, it was
• 37:56
  Speaker: part of the Indiana State Museum
• 37:58
  Speaker: historical sites and they
• 38:00
  Speaker: allowed us to do, I think we did
• 38:01
  Speaker: three or four public events
• 38:02
  Speaker: there.
• 38:03
  Speaker: During one of the investigations, we said, what
• 38:06
  Speaker: town are you from?
• 38:08
  Speaker: And one of the ghosts said very
• 38:10
  Speaker: clearly across the spirit box,
• 38:12
  Speaker: new Harmony.
• 38:14
  Speaker: So we basically brought our own ghost to the ghost.
• 38:18
  Speaker: But so but I'm, you know, and
• 38:20
  Speaker: I'll say things like, um, what,
• 38:23
  Speaker: who was president when you were
• 38:25
  Speaker: here or.
• 38:26
  Speaker: Yeah, we, you know, we really,
• 38:29
  Speaker: every once in a while get a
• 38:30
  Speaker: little bit of an answer, but I
• 38:32
  Speaker: just want to validate that they
• 38:33
  Speaker: are actually there, uh, and not
• 38:36
  Speaker: pulled in.
• 38:36
  Speaker: Sometimes I wonder about the spirit box that if it's just
• 38:39
  Speaker: basically a ghost radio and we're talking to maybe, you
• 38:43
  Speaker: know, ghosts from Minnesota, ghosts from the astral plane or
• 38:48
  Speaker: like a ham radio of ghost boxes, you just don't know who.
• 38:51
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 38:51
  Speaker: We're always experimenting and
• 38:53
  Speaker: trying to ask questions, but,
• 38:55
  Speaker: um, they don't give us a lot in
• 38:57
  Speaker: that aspect.
• 38:58
  Speaker: I feel like there's probably
• 38:59
  Speaker: rules that they're not allowed
• 39:01
  Speaker: to break.
• 39:02
  Speaker: Um, and I, I have asked, are there rules?
• 39:04
  Speaker: And I've gotten that answered a couple times.
• 39:06
  Speaker: Yes.
• 39:06
  Speaker: Um, but it's, you know, funny because they never always answer
• 39:11
  Speaker: everything I want to know.
• 39:13
  Speaker: Like they'll give us some kind of ambiguous response.
• 39:15
  Speaker: It doesn't in what we really wanted.
• 39:18
  Speaker: They're not cooperative.
• 39:20
  Speaker: You know, there's one situation we have had going.
• 39:23
  Speaker: We have two ghost walks.
• 39:25
  Speaker: Now.
• 39:25
  Speaker: The town is so haunted that
• 39:27
  Speaker: we're able to set up two
• 39:29
  Speaker: completely different ghost
• 39:30
  Speaker: walks.
• 39:30
  Speaker: Oh, wow.
• 39:31
  Speaker: And one of them, one of them was called the Dark Side.
• 39:34
  Speaker: And we go, the reason it's
• 39:35
  Speaker: called the dark Side is because
• 39:36
  Speaker: we go on the darker side of town
• 39:38
  Speaker: where there aren't a lot of
• 39:39
  Speaker: street lights, so it's a little
• 39:40
  Speaker: eerier.
• 39:41
  Speaker: Um, but there's one location
• 39:44
  Speaker: where there's a little girl and
• 39:46
  Speaker: we actually experienced her when
• 39:49
  Speaker: we were doing an investigation
• 39:50
  Speaker: there.
• 39:51
  Speaker: They it's called the Grand Gothic.
• 39:53
  Speaker: It's connected to the Red geranium restaurant.
• 39:55
  Speaker: It's where their wedding events are.
• 39:57
  Speaker: And they had been having things happen.
• 40:00
  Speaker: And they asked us to come in and investigate.
• 40:02
  Speaker: And we did.
• 40:03
  Speaker: And during the night we had our SLS camera going and we kept
• 40:07
  Speaker: picking up three voices a man, a woman and a little girl, and we
• 40:11
  Speaker: were pretty sure we knew who the man and the woman were.
• 40:13
  Speaker: But the little girl was anomaly.
• 40:15
  Speaker: We had no idea.
• 40:16
  Speaker: And then all of a sudden we saw a little a small child, a small
• 40:20
  Speaker: stick figure pop up in between us on the screen.
• 40:24
  Speaker: And she was reactive.
• 40:26
  Speaker: Uh, we were going to reach out and touch my hand.
• 40:28
  Speaker: And she did wave at us.
• 40:30
  Speaker: She did.
• 40:30
  Speaker: And then she disappeared.
• 40:32
  Speaker: And we were trying to find out
• 40:35
  Speaker: how old she was and just
• 40:36
  Speaker: different information.
• 40:37
  Speaker: And all of a sudden we heard like paper crinkling behind us,
• 40:41
  Speaker: and we heard a wow.
• 40:43
  Speaker: And it was like a little child.
• 40:45
  Speaker: It wasn't across any of the equipment.
• 40:46
  Speaker: It was in real life.
• 40:47
  Speaker: It was a disembodied voice.
• 40:49
  Speaker: It was like a little child, like
• 40:51
  Speaker: a little child trying to scare
• 40:52
  Speaker: us.
• 40:53
  Speaker: And we understood about ten o'clock at night, uh, we
• 40:56
  Speaker: immediately one one investigator ran outside the front door.
• 41:01
  Speaker: I ran into the restaurant through the side door, and there
• 41:04
  Speaker: was nobody there.
• 41:05
  Speaker: And I ran into, um, one of the
• 41:08
  Speaker: longtime servers, David Meyer,
• 41:10
  Speaker: who gave me a lot of stories for
• 41:11
  Speaker: my book.
• 41:13
  Speaker: And he said, we haven't had any
• 41:14
  Speaker: children in here all night, he
• 41:15
  Speaker: said.
• 41:16
  Speaker: However, it's interesting that
• 41:17
  Speaker: you say that because last week a
• 41:20
  Speaker: woman, a couple, came out of the
• 41:21
  Speaker: restaurant and saw a little girl
• 41:23
  Speaker: in the upstairs window of the
• 41:25
  Speaker: Green Gothic.
• 41:26
  Speaker: And, um, so but as we do the ghost walk, that's one of our
• 41:31
  Speaker: first places and we end up in Church Park, which is where the
• 41:35
  Speaker: old Harmonist church used to be.
• 41:37
  Speaker: It's now beautiful park with a
• 41:39
  Speaker: fountain and there's a lot of
• 41:41
  Speaker: seating there.
• 41:41
  Speaker: So we will always sit there and we'll do a dowsing rod session
• 41:44
  Speaker: with the with the guests and let them use the dowsing rods.
• 41:47
  Speaker: And everybody really loves it.
• 41:49
  Speaker: And it's funny because we kept picking up on a little girl,
• 41:52
  Speaker: like a little girl kept coming through on the dowsing rods and,
• 41:56
  Speaker: uh, and a woman and a man.
• 41:57
  Speaker: And, um, we would never tell
• 42:00
  Speaker: them what the other group had
• 42:02
  Speaker: found.
• 42:03
  Speaker: Uh, we just let them start from
• 42:05
  Speaker: scratch and just see what
• 42:06
  Speaker: happened and see if they got the
• 42:07
  Speaker: same thing.
• 42:08
  Speaker: And they always did.
• 42:09
  Speaker: And what the story we got was that the man was from the Owen
• 42:13
  Speaker: period or later, and the woman was from the Harmonist period.
• 42:17
  Speaker: And the little girl was like, even later than that, or, you
• 42:21
  Speaker: know, later, like, you know, later eighteen hundreds.
• 42:23
  Speaker: And so none of them knew each other.
• 42:25
  Speaker: They weren't alive at the same time.
• 42:27
  Speaker: But the woman took care of the little girl and we had a psychic
• 42:31
  Speaker: medium come on, the ghost walk, who was providing us with all
• 42:35
  Speaker: kinds of crazy information.
• 42:37
  Speaker: And he said, you know who this little girl is, right?
• 42:41
  Speaker: He said, I'm surprised you guys
• 42:42
  Speaker: haven't put two and two
• 42:43
  Speaker: together.
• 42:43
  Speaker: She's the little girl from the Grand Gothic.
• 42:45
  Speaker: She follows your ghost walks.
• 42:47
  Speaker: Oh my gosh.
• 42:49
  Speaker: Wow.
• 42:49
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 42:50
  Speaker: So we, you know, we learned that towards the end of the season.
• 42:54
  Speaker: So we didn't get a chance to really fully explore it.
• 42:56
  Speaker: But um, you know, they're not stuck in place.
• 42:59
  Speaker: They can go where they want to go.
• 43:00
  Speaker: And, uh, she's been, and she's mischievous, which, you know,
• 43:04
  Speaker: well, she sounds fun.
• 43:06
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 43:06
  Speaker: She does, she is fun.
• 43:08
  Speaker: She is fun.
• 43:08
  Speaker: So I'm hoping we have more
• 43:10
  Speaker: experiences with her as time
• 43:11
  Speaker: goes on.
• 43:12
  Speaker: We've definitely got a lot to learn.
• 43:14
  Speaker: If someone wanted to get a hold of you and or buy your books,
• 43:17
  Speaker: where would they go?
• 43:19
  Speaker: Um, well, all my books are available on Amazon.
• 43:22
  Speaker: Um, I have twenty four of them so they can find them there.
• 43:26
  Speaker: Uh, if they're looking for
• 43:28
  Speaker: haunted Posey County, that's
• 43:29
  Speaker: available at Barnes and Noble in
• 43:31
  Speaker: Evansville.
• 43:31
  Speaker: Uh, they can actually get any of my books.
• 43:33
  Speaker: So if you have a book you're looking for, you can go there
• 43:36
  Speaker: and ask them to order it.
• 43:38
  Speaker: Uh, here in new Harmony, it's sold in multiple locations.
• 43:41
  Speaker: Um, most of my books are
• 43:43
  Speaker: available at Antique Emporium,
• 43:45
  Speaker: which is on Church Street, and
• 43:47
  Speaker: it's also in haunted new
• 43:49
  Speaker: Harmony.
• 43:49
  Speaker: It's a haunted building, so two for one.
• 43:52
  Speaker: Um, but yeah, there's sold a lot of little places locally, but
• 43:56
  Speaker: Amazon's the best way to get it.
• 43:57
  Speaker: If you're looking for a signed
• 43:58
  Speaker: author copy, you can find me on
• 44:00
  Speaker: Facebook.
• 44:01
  Speaker: Uh, or you know, you can email me.
• 44:04
  Speaker: My email is on my website.
• 44:06
  Speaker: So I do give people the contact me that way and I do festivals.
• 44:10
  Speaker: So I do, you know, Koontz Fest in September.
• 44:12
  Speaker: I do River Days in Mount Vernon.
• 44:14
  Speaker: So awesome.
• 44:15
  Speaker: And I will have these links down in the show notes.
• 44:18
  Speaker: So if anyone wants to find those, they can go to River city
• 44:20
  Speaker: mystery dot com slash eight and all of that will be there.
• 44:24
  Speaker: Awesome.
• 44:25
  Speaker: I appreciate that, and I just
• 44:27
  Speaker: want to thank you for taking the
• 44:28
  Speaker: time out of your day to, to talk
• 44:29
  Speaker: to me.
• 44:29
  Speaker: I really appreciate it.
• 44:31
  Speaker: Well, thanks for inviting me.
• 44:32
  Speaker: It's nice to know that there's
• 44:34
  Speaker: somebody so close that's into
• 44:35
  Speaker: this stuff.
• 44:36
  Speaker: So. Well, I'm sure we'll cross paths again.
• 44:46
  Speaker: If you're interested in checking out any of Joni's books,
• 44:49
  Speaker: learning about upcoming ghost walks or paranormal
• 44:52
  Speaker: investigations, you can check out her website at Joni dot com,
• 44:56
  Speaker: and I will have all the links in the show notes at RiverCity
• 44:58
  Speaker: Mystery.com/8.
• 45:01
  Speaker: And that brings us episode to a close.
• 45:03
  Speaker: Thanks for joining me.
• 45:04
  Speaker: Until next time, take care.