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POTB 557: IU football offseason updates and previewing IU basketball's stretch run · Podcast on the Brink

0:17
Speaker 1: Welcome back to a new episode of Podcast on the Brink.
0:22
Speaker 1: It's Friday, February sixth. Zach Osterman, I, you insider of
0:28
Speaker 1: the Indian appleis star back with us for this week's
0:31
Speaker 1: episode of Podcast on the Break. Before we get to Zach,
0:35
Speaker 1: quick reminder, if you enjoy the show over on Apple
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0:40
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0:43
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0:46
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0:48
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0:52
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0:57
Speaker 1: There's Zach. Have you recovered yet from the run through
1:02
Speaker 1: the college football Playoff? I know you were traveling cross
1:06
Speaker 1: country and it was quite a grind, but I can
1:10
Speaker 1: also confidently say it's probably something you never expected to
1:14
Speaker 1: cover in terms of value football coverage. You've been covering
1:16
Speaker 1: the program for quite a long time. Sixteen and oh
1:19
Speaker 1: season national championship obviously something that a couple of years
1:23
Speaker 1: ago seemed like a pipe dream Friday Football, it is
1:26
Speaker 1: reality though they won the national championship. How was the
1:29
Speaker 1: journey for you? And again, are you recovered from all
1:32
Speaker 1: of the travel.
1:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny. I had a red eye out the
1:40
Speaker 2: night of the Rose Bowl, Like, I flew out like
1:43
Speaker 2: one am the day after the game, and so I
1:46
Speaker 2: went into the duckdown to the media hospitality lounge just
1:49
Speaker 2: to get a bite to eat before I went to
1:53
Speaker 2: the airport, and I ran into some of the Alabama
1:56
Speaker 2: beat writers and obviously they are old hat at this
1:59
Speaker 2: kind of this kind of campaigning, and they said, you know, hey,
2:04
Speaker 2: we know what this looks like. I've told people this
2:06
Speaker 2: story a lot in the last week or two. They said,
2:08
Speaker 2: we know what that team looks like, like we've seen it.
2:13
Speaker 2: You're going all the way to the championship game like that.
2:15
Speaker 2: That's a national championship caliber team. Trust us. And then
2:18
Speaker 2: one of them, I think was Matt Stall, said, and
2:21
Speaker 2: You're gonna get home from the championship game and be
2:22
Speaker 2: sick as a dog for a week. And I've actually
2:25
Speaker 2: been sick twice since since Miami, so I could certainly
2:33
Speaker 2: sympathize with with anybody who's been through that. You're right,
2:36
Speaker 2: it was. It was a remarkable story. It is one
2:38
Speaker 2: of those things where professionally you almost just kind of
2:42
Speaker 2: put your head down and and just you know, you
2:46
Speaker 2: know that you'll get your rest aventually, but it's not
2:48
Speaker 2: going to happen kind of in the moment. I mean it.
2:52
Speaker 2: You know, something else I said to my wife earlier
2:55
Speaker 2: this week was that this week is probably the first
2:57
Speaker 2: time since early November that it hasn't felt like world
3:00
Speaker 2: was on fire, just from the perspective of things to
3:02
Speaker 2: get done, stories to write, stuff to chase down, places
3:06
Speaker 2: to be. It was a lot of fun. And you know,
3:09
Speaker 2: I hope people, hope fans and listeners enjoyed it. I
3:13
Speaker 2: hope they enjoyed our coverage certainly as well as yours.
3:17
Speaker 2: But it has been nice to finally catch our breath
3:20
Speaker 2: a little bit here too.
3:21
Speaker 1: Absolutely did a terrific job, Zach of kind of telling
3:25
Speaker 1: stories along the way, really from back in the fall
3:28
Speaker 1: camp all the way through the championships. So I just
3:30
Speaker 1: wanted to say that here publicly a great job with that.
3:32
Speaker 1: Everyone over at the Star and Mike two at the
3:35
Speaker 1: Bloomington Paper did terrific work. So I really enjoyed. Following that,
3:39
Speaker 1: wanted to get to a couple of AU football off
3:42
Speaker 1: season topics before we dive into basketball. Obviously there's been
3:45
Speaker 1: some staff changes. Derek Owings, who quick me if I'm wrong.
3:51
Speaker 1: Last offseason there was some rumors I guess that USC
3:55
Speaker 1: wanted to hire him, ultimately ends up staying in Bloomington.
3:58
Speaker 1: Now he's off to ten to see Indiana's hired a
4:01
Speaker 1: replacement there, Tyson Brown from Colorado State, who I believe
4:04
Speaker 1: has some history with Kurt Signetty in his past. And
4:07
Speaker 1: obviously Chandler Whitmer off to the NFL after one season,
4:11
Speaker 1: as I believe co offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach. And
4:15
Speaker 1: now Tino Sinceri, who was with the program last season,
4:18
Speaker 1: went to UCLA in the offseason, got fired or let
4:21
Speaker 1: go their mid season. So he's back. So a familiar
4:23
Speaker 1: name back. Just what do you make of those two
4:25
Speaker 1: staff changes? Are they, you know, anything impactful there? Obviously
4:30
Speaker 1: the strengthen conditioning piece is pretty important because you know,
4:34
Speaker 1: if it's anything like basketball, really in the off season,
4:36
Speaker 1: the strengthening conditioning folks spend as much time, if not
4:39
Speaker 1: more than the actual coaching staff does with the players.
4:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, the the Derek Oings piece of it
4:45
Speaker 2: I think was and what like I mean, surprise is
4:49
Speaker 2: not quite the right word loo. When you have success,
4:51
Speaker 2: coaches leave, other people want to bring on your you know,
4:56
Speaker 2: sort of try to try to pick off your formal
5:00
Speaker 2: I mean, how much do we come much time do
5:01
Speaker 2: we spend talking about Nick Saban coaching trees during the
5:06
Speaker 2: college football playoff. That's that's sort of the ultimate case
5:10
Speaker 2: in point right now in the sport. You know that
5:13
Speaker 2: with Owings, you know it it seemed for all the
5:17
Speaker 2: world like it was just a movie wanted to make.
5:19
Speaker 2: You know that he just he just wanted to sort
5:21
Speaker 2: of try something different. And you know, you can't fault
5:25
Speaker 2: people in that world if that's what they want to do.
5:29
Speaker 2: You know, Tyson Brown does have some history with Kurzignetti.
5:32
Speaker 2: He hired him at Elon. I don't think he was
5:34
Speaker 2: with him, if I if I understand the timeline correctly,
5:36
Speaker 2: he was not with him for that long because he
5:39
Speaker 2: was an assistant at Washington State and an assistant like
5:44
Speaker 2: strength coach and signetty hired him to Elon, and then
5:46
Speaker 2: Washington State's head strength coach went to the NFL, like
5:48
Speaker 2: I think just a few weeks later, and then Tyson
5:52
Speaker 2: Brown went back to Washington State. You know, I talked
5:55
Speaker 2: to I mean, this is very anecdotal. I talked to
5:57
Speaker 2: a couple of friends who are are Yukon football fans,
6:00
Speaker 2: had good things to say about, you know, just generally
6:04
Speaker 2: the way strength and conditioning seemed to intersect with you know,
6:07
Speaker 2: things like offensive and defensive line play, injury prevention, you know,
6:11
Speaker 2: stuff like that, because he was at Yukon with with
6:14
Speaker 2: Jim Mora junior. Obviously, I'm not clever enough to sit
6:19
Speaker 2: here and tell you I know exactly what's going to
6:22
Speaker 2: change and you know what will be different and what
6:24
Speaker 2: will be the same. But I think Chris Sagetti, you know,
6:26
Speaker 2: certainly will be looking for someone who fits his philosophy
6:29
Speaker 2: in terms of how he develops and trains players and
6:32
Speaker 2: the importance of that that role in as part of
6:37
Speaker 2: keeping his rosters healthy. You know, Segnetti talks so much
6:40
Speaker 2: about you know, workload and the way Derek Owings affected
6:45
Speaker 2: his affected his you know sort of his his team's
6:51
Speaker 2: you know, relatively good luck with with injuries. I think
6:55
Speaker 2: that will probably be a key part of the Tyson
6:57
Speaker 2: Brown higher. He's not listed on the roster Indiana hasn't
7:01
Speaker 2: updated it's it's online roster yet spring, but he is
7:06
Speaker 2: in the employee directory at I use, so he's he's
7:09
Speaker 2: by all accounts on board and working. You know, the
7:14
Speaker 2: Chandler Whitmer move. I mean, you hire a guy from
7:18
Speaker 2: the NFL, it's probably always a little bit likely er
7:20
Speaker 2: he's going to eventually wind up back in the NFL,
7:22
Speaker 2: especially obviously if he has the success that Whitmer had
7:24
Speaker 2: last season with Frenana Mendoza. The you know, the the
7:30
Speaker 2: more interesting bit to me was Tino Cinceri. And this
7:33
Speaker 2: is this is a sentiment I'm stealing from our good
7:37
Speaker 2: friend Mike Nysialik, who said this on our podcast yesterday.
7:41
Speaker 2: You know, hiring Tino back is obviously a there's an
7:47
Speaker 2: obvious sort of motivation for it, which is he knows
7:50
Speaker 2: the system, he knows the staff, he knows Signette's working process.
7:53
Speaker 2: He and Mike Shanahan are very very close. They go
7:55
Speaker 2: back to their their playing careers in terms of their relationship.
8:00
Speaker 2: But the point Mike made too was it's also kind
8:05
Speaker 2: of one less thing that might cause growing pains Indiana's offseason.
8:11
Speaker 2: It's a good problem to have, but their off season
8:13
Speaker 2: started a month later this year. That's a long time.
8:15
Speaker 2: And then you factor in the change of strength and
8:17
Speaker 2: conditioning coach is probably going to lead to some changes
8:20
Speaker 2: in the way that your off season weightlifting and speed
8:23
Speaker 2: and strength programs are structured and just kind of how
8:27
Speaker 2: everything is fit and fastened within your program. It's probably
8:31
Speaker 2: pretty valuable that you're getting someone who is going to,
8:34
Speaker 2: you know, metaphorically speaking, know where the light switches are,
8:39
Speaker 2: you know, know where the break room is. Just understand
8:43
Speaker 2: from the moment they walk into the facility or and
8:46
Speaker 2: obviously in Tino's case, walk back into the facility, everything
8:50
Speaker 2: that's expected of them, and how to meet those expectations,
8:53
Speaker 2: you know, kind of on a daily basis, because you
8:55
Speaker 2: have everything else in place, right, You've got your quarterback,
8:58
Speaker 2: You've got you know, a health the amount of returning
9:00
Speaker 2: production in your offensive line, you got a bunch of
9:03
Speaker 2: skill position stuff to figure out. But you would back
9:06
Speaker 2: this staff to do that. You know that it's weird
9:11
Speaker 2: to call it continuity with Tino, because obviously he wasn't
9:14
Speaker 2: on staff last season, But there is an extent to
9:17
Speaker 2: which that continuity probably helps when you were dealing with
9:20
Speaker 2: a compressed spring semester here from just a calendar stamp.
9:26
Speaker 1: In terms of the portal. Obviously, there was a week
9:28
Speaker 1: or so there where it was commitments flying left and
9:31
Speaker 1: right for Indiana in terms of filling up the roster
9:33
Speaker 1: for next season. And that was in the midst of
9:35
Speaker 1: the playoff runs. So not only was Indiana preparing for
9:39
Speaker 1: playoff games, they were hosting guys for official visits from
9:43
Speaker 1: the portal and signing guys and trying to figure out
9:46
Speaker 1: roster needs and holes also with trying to consider who
9:51
Speaker 1: may leave and who may come back next season via
9:54
Speaker 1: the drafts, and so the kind of the dust has
9:55
Speaker 1: settled there on everything. It seems obviously the portal though
10:00
Speaker 1: to enter is over, and the semester has started in Bloomington,
10:03
Speaker 1: so it seems like the activity is pretty much over
10:06
Speaker 1: at this point. Is that fair to say? Yeah?
10:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean it like the could Indiana add
10:15
Speaker 2: someone from here? Yes? In fact, I mean, you know,
10:19
Speaker 2: just the law of large numbers tells me I wouldn't
10:22
Speaker 2: be shocked if they add somebody at some point. Now
10:25
Speaker 2: that might be like a high school kid who enrolls
10:27
Speaker 2: just in the summer. Like that might be someone who
10:29
Speaker 2: you know is like very late ad in the twenty
10:32
Speaker 2: twenty sixth class. The way that Elijah Hardy was a
10:34
Speaker 2: really really late ad in the twenty twenty four class.
10:38
Speaker 2: Is it possible to get somebody out of the portal
10:42
Speaker 2: like in for the spring semester? Yes? Is it likely? No,
10:45
Speaker 2: because we're so deep into the academic calendar now, you
10:48
Speaker 2: can have some guys that maybe your grad transfers or
10:51
Speaker 2: would only need like second eight weeks classes, or maybe
10:55
Speaker 2: you're there on like a trimester system where they're coming from.
10:57
Speaker 2: It was the possible you can eat as long as
10:59
Speaker 2: someone in the portal. Now it's also possible you could
11:02
Speaker 2: add them after the spring. What can't happen is no
11:06
Speaker 2: one can go in the portal from here. There's no
11:09
Speaker 2: spring portal window. There's no there's essentially no date where
11:14
Speaker 2: the roster can open back up. And I think that's
11:17
Speaker 2: you know, Kritzygnti's talked about how you'd rather have a
11:19
Speaker 2: spring window. I think a lot of coaches would rather
11:21
Speaker 2: have just only a spring window, you know, possibly even
11:25
Speaker 2: just overhaul the spring calendar entirely. But like Indiana at
11:31
Speaker 2: least has the assurance that everybody who's on the roster
11:33
Speaker 2: right now, provided they don't, you know, get kicked off
11:37
Speaker 2: or something, will be on the roster for the twenty
11:39
Speaker 2: twenty sixth season. Obviously, by this point, the vast majority
11:44
Speaker 2: of your impact portal players have probably signed somewhere right
11:49
Speaker 2: there's you know, there's you would you wouldn't really voluntarily
11:52
Speaker 2: wait in most cases. Maybe there's a rare exception, but
11:55
Speaker 2: in most cases you wouldn't voluntarily wait until after this.
11:59
Speaker 2: You wouldn't go into the portal in the winter, but
12:01
Speaker 2: then not transferential after the spring semester if you could
12:04
Speaker 2: avoid it. I do think Indiana's got like maybe a
12:07
Speaker 2: little under half a dozen spots left, like maybe three
12:10
Speaker 2: or four. I'm not one hundred percent sure on that,
12:12
Speaker 2: So again, I wouldn't be shocked if maybe Indiana's you know,
12:16
Speaker 2: casting one eye over a small handful of guys that
12:20
Speaker 2: maybe it would consider a take, you know, approaching and
12:26
Speaker 2: taking after the the spring season and after the spring semester,
12:29
Speaker 2: and those those players wouldn't be able to join obviously
12:32
Speaker 2: until the team recon being on campus in late May
12:34
Speaker 2: or early April. But that you know, for the most part,
12:40
Speaker 2: the portal is settled out. And what I think is
12:42
Speaker 2: particularly meaningful for maybe fans and it certainly coaches maybe
12:48
Speaker 2: fans too, is kind of the idea that you don't
12:50
Speaker 2: have the uncertainty of someone potentially leaving after spring practice,
12:53
Speaker 2: because you always had that when there was a winter window.
12:55
Speaker 2: In a spring window, you'd always have guys who go
12:57
Speaker 2: through spring practice realized they weren't going to play them
13:00
Speaker 2: the snaps they thought they might, and decide they were
13:02
Speaker 2: going to leave, and then that would open up a
13:04
Speaker 2: hole very late in the day that you would have
13:05
Speaker 2: to fill. Indiana has the assurance of kind of everyone
13:08
Speaker 2: who's on the roster right now is here and as
13:13
Speaker 2: long you know you can still take obviously a high
13:15
Speaker 2: school kid, or you can still take a portal guy,
13:18
Speaker 2: as long as they were in the portal. You know,
13:20
Speaker 2: by the end of the winter window.
13:22
Speaker 1: Is there any position that you look at and say
13:25
Speaker 1: they could use somebody at this spot. Obviously, Kurt Signetty
13:28
Speaker 1: talked throughout the season just about you never really feel
13:31
Speaker 1: like you have an up depth at any position because
13:33
Speaker 1: injuries can happen, and obviously at Indiana you're trying to
13:40
Speaker 1: they don't have the luxury. I don't think maybe some
13:42
Speaker 1: of the other traditional programs of just having such a
13:46
Speaker 1: backlog of high school guys that they've recruited for many years,
13:49
Speaker 1: So maybe the depth isn't there like it would be
13:52
Speaker 1: in another classes. But is there a position you look
13:53
Speaker 1: at and say, if they could add a guy at
13:57
Speaker 1: this spot, this is where they'd want to do it.
14:01
Speaker 2: I mean the obvious one is tight end. They you
14:04
Speaker 2: know right now they do not have a single tight
14:09
Speaker 2: end with meaningful experience on their roster. There is, I
14:14
Speaker 2: mean they you know, they have some guys who maybe
14:16
Speaker 2: played a handful of snaps. You know, brock Shot the
14:19
Speaker 2: tight end from Miami, who I guess Kritzigeti said as
14:21
Speaker 2: a laborer injury and is going to miss the spring season.
14:24
Speaker 2: Shot is uh. I think he appeared in one game
14:28
Speaker 2: and caught two passes last season. So like, I mean,
14:30
Speaker 2: there is there's at least something there, But you do
14:36
Speaker 2: not have anything like a Zach Horton or Riley Nuwakowski,
14:39
Speaker 2: a Holden Stays, even a even somebody like James Bomba
14:42
Speaker 2: who's played a lot of snaps, even if maybe he
14:44
Speaker 2: hasn't caught a lot of passes necessarily, there is, you know,
14:49
Speaker 2: that is kind of the one glaring, kind of question
14:54
Speaker 2: mark position on the roster. You look elsewhere. I mean, like,
14:57
Speaker 2: you know, four starting offensive lineman back and a fifth
14:59
Speaker 2: two year star coming in from Wisconsin. You got both
15:01
Speaker 2: your starting defensive tackles back. You've got one hundred and
15:04
Speaker 2: eighty combined tackles back at linebacker. You're going to get
15:08
Speaker 2: two your four safeties back. You know you're going to
15:11
Speaker 2: get multiple corners back. You're going to get Obviously you
15:15
Speaker 2: lose your top two running backs, but you got two
15:18
Speaker 2: that were on roster last year, and Kobe Martin and
15:20
Speaker 2: Lee Beedi, plus another one you've added, Turbo Richard. You've
15:24
Speaker 2: got you know, proven production at wide receiver, whether it's
15:26
Speaker 2: at Indiana or somewhere else, Like there's you know, quietly,
15:29
Speaker 2: if you if you go sort of flip through some
15:32
Speaker 2: of the early kind of you know, total amount of
15:35
Speaker 2: production returning charts that people start putting together this time
15:39
Speaker 2: of year. Indiana's got a lot more guys back than
15:41
Speaker 2: I think people realize. Tight End is the one spot where,
15:45
Speaker 2: especially for a position that frankly is very important to
15:48
Speaker 2: that offense, both from a blocking and a receiving perspective.
15:51
Speaker 2: It is the one position where you're you're maybe a
15:54
Speaker 2: little bit surprised Indiana didn't try to add even if
15:58
Speaker 2: they really liked brock shot for sample, or even if
16:00
Speaker 2: they really like the look of one of their true
16:02
Speaker 2: or red shirt freshmen, you're a little bit surprised, Indiana,
16:05
Speaker 2: and add something more meaningful.
16:06
Speaker 1: There last thing on football before we hop over to hoops. Obviously,
16:11
Speaker 1: spring practice coming up. I believe that usually starts after
16:17
Speaker 1: spring break somewhere around there. And then obviously they'll have
16:20
Speaker 1: the spring game, which I believe is going to be
16:22
Speaker 1: the Thursday of a little five weeks. What do you
16:26
Speaker 1: expect different, if anything, about spring practice this year? Obviously
16:31
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a lot more buzz around the program
16:34
Speaker 1: given the success this season and then coming off the
16:37
Speaker 1: national championship. Is a spring game look much different than
16:40
Speaker 1: it has in years past in terms of attendance and
16:43
Speaker 1: turnout and anything just kind of procedurally that's going to
16:48
Speaker 1: look different this year about springball than in the past.
16:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, and so sorry I started answering your question
16:55
Speaker 2: too soon to apologize. I mean, I would be surprised
16:58
Speaker 2: if the attendance isn't bigger. I like the the benchmark.
17:00
Speaker 2: I'm kind of curious to see if they passes. They
17:03
Speaker 2: probably had about fifteen thousand people at the championships celebration,
17:06
Speaker 2: and I know they would have wanted more, but it.
17:08
Speaker 1: Was so cold cold.
17:09
Speaker 2: I mean like it was. I mean it wasn't just cold,
17:11
Speaker 2: it was like almost dangerously cold. Like I had. I
17:15
Speaker 2: had a big pair of ski gloves, and I kept
17:16
Speaker 2: pulling my hand out to take video as they were
17:19
Speaker 2: doing different things. And I could not have my hand
17:20
Speaker 2: out of my glove for more than two minutes before
17:23
Speaker 2: I literally started losing feeling in my hands. That's how
17:27
Speaker 2: cold it was. I'd be curious to see if they
17:29
Speaker 2: could beat a number like that. I think that would
17:31
Speaker 2: be interesting. I know, you know, in general, like interest
17:34
Speaker 2: in spring games has waned in the last few years,
17:36
Speaker 2: not here, like just nationally, other than a small handful
17:40
Speaker 2: of places like g Day at Georgia or a day
17:42
Speaker 2: at Alabama. Like spring games, don't you know, they're not
17:46
Speaker 2: quite the spectacles they once were. And Kurtzignette's not going
17:49
Speaker 2: to do anything different, you know, he said it's gonna
17:50
Speaker 2: be the Thursday night of a little five same setup,
17:53
Speaker 2: just basically two quarters open scrimmage, you know, ones versus ones,
17:58
Speaker 2: twos verse twos, all that kind of stuff. That's it's
18:00
Speaker 2: not going to be, you know, anything more elaborate just
18:07
Speaker 2: because they won a national title. So I am curious
18:09
Speaker 2: to see, like what that looks like and kind of
18:11
Speaker 2: where maybe at one of the debtor points in the calendar,
18:14
Speaker 2: the enthusiasm is for this program given everything that's happened,
18:19
Speaker 2: But the game itself won't look any different. Now spring
18:21
Speaker 2: ball might a little bit. I suspect they're not going
18:26
Speaker 2: to open spring camp until after spring break, which is late.
18:29
Speaker 2: It's not super late normally that you'd only get maybe
18:32
Speaker 2: three or four practices in before you send your kids
18:35
Speaker 2: off on spring break. Like that's not an enormous amount.
18:38
Speaker 2: But again, the season ended, you know, quite literally one
18:41
Speaker 2: month earlier last year that it did this year. So
18:45
Speaker 2: you know, in terms of the necessary downtime and recovery time,
18:48
Speaker 2: you've got to give your players the you know, maybe
18:51
Speaker 2: anybody who needs like a surgery or some kind of
18:54
Speaker 2: cleanup procedure or whatever. Like, there's there's got to be
18:57
Speaker 2: a gap between when you finished playing the previous season
18:59
Speaker 2: and when you start practicing for the next one, and
19:03
Speaker 2: that gap got delayed by a month. And so I
19:05
Speaker 2: wouldn't be shocked if maybe practices are delayed by at
19:08
Speaker 2: least two or three weeks, because Signetti said many times.
19:11
Speaker 2: I know he said it this week, I think on
19:12
Speaker 2: a podcast with the Fox Big Noon crew, but he
19:16
Speaker 2: said it to us before. He said, like, I've never
19:17
Speaker 2: used all fifteen spring practices, you know, I just I don't.
19:20
Speaker 2: You know, every once in a while spring practice might
19:22
Speaker 2: run long, like into one individual practice, but I don't
19:26
Speaker 2: feel the need to do work just for work's sake,
19:29
Speaker 2: And that jives with everything Seignetti's talked about, you know, shorter,
19:31
Speaker 2: more efficient practices walkthroughs, and you know, maybe a slightly
19:35
Speaker 2: healthier work life balance for his staff and things like that.
19:40
Speaker 2: I don't think it's going to change that much about
19:42
Speaker 2: like what Indiana tries to get out of spring practice.
19:45
Speaker 2: I just think probably those practices will start a little
19:49
Speaker 2: bit later in the calendar before obviously concluding, I think
19:51
Speaker 2: that's April twenty third, I believe is the spring game.
19:55
Speaker 2: It's that Thursday night before five.
19:57
Speaker 1: Gotcha so hop into basketball here. I got about ten
20:02
Speaker 1: twelve minutes left on the episode. But you obviously been
20:06
Speaker 1: hyper focused on football for good reason. Basketball Obviously, there
20:12
Speaker 1: was a couple of games where Trevor and I were
20:15
Speaker 1: looking around at Assembly Hall home games and wondering where
20:19
Speaker 1: the rest of the media was. Of course, you guys
20:20
Speaker 1: were at the college football playoff, but it was just
20:24
Speaker 1: kind of weird to have home games against It was
20:26
Speaker 1: Iowa and Nebraska where there was literally three or four
20:31
Speaker 1: media members for a basketball can't remember a time that
20:33
Speaker 1: ever happened at those games, and both of those games, obviously,
20:37
Speaker 1: we're key opportunities that Indiana missed at home, and Indiana
20:41
Speaker 1: has another opportunity coming up on Saturday afternoon, kind of
20:44
Speaker 1: in a similar spot in terms of the time of
20:47
Speaker 1: the game, early afternoon tip against the Wisconsin program that historically,
20:53
Speaker 1: at least over the last twenty twenty five years, has
20:55
Speaker 1: been a tough out for Indiana at home. How big
20:58
Speaker 1: is this game in your mind tomorrow against the Badgers?
21:00
Speaker 1: Indiana six and six in the Big Ten right now
21:02
Speaker 1: at fifteen wins. You know, I've kind of looked at
21:05
Speaker 1: at their metrics right now and kind of where they are.
21:08
Speaker 1: They're in a pretty good spot just in terms of
21:11
Speaker 1: all the computer numbers, and a lot of people have
21:14
Speaker 1: you know, asked you if they need to win twenty
21:15
Speaker 1: games to get the tournament. I honestly think if they're
21:18
Speaker 1: a five hundred team in the Big Ten, they've got
21:21
Speaker 1: a pretty good chance to make it. Now, I wouldn't
21:22
Speaker 1: necessarily if I'm Indiana want to take my chances on that.
21:27
Speaker 1: If I can get to eleven Big Ten wins, I'm
21:28
Speaker 1: feeling a lot better about my chances. But the schedule
21:32
Speaker 1: is actually set up pretty nicely here. The last eight games,
21:35
Speaker 1: obviously five of those eight at home, four of them
21:40
Speaker 1: are three or four of them definitely look pretty winnable
21:43
Speaker 1: depending on how you view you know, the Michigan State
21:45
Speaker 1: in Wisconsin games, but those teams. Obviously, Wisconsin has a
21:49
Speaker 1: road loss at Nebraska that was pretty bad. Haven't really
21:53
Speaker 1: played a ton of road games so far in league
21:54
Speaker 1: play in Michigan State. Looked like it's coming back down
21:58
Speaker 1: to earth the other night at Minnesota.
22:00
Speaker 2: With that and the.
22:01
Speaker 1: Jeremy Fears issues. What just going into Saturday, What are
22:06
Speaker 1: your thoughts just on the importance of this game specifically
22:09
Speaker 1: and overall where Indiana stands kind of going into this
22:11
Speaker 1: final stretch of the season.
22:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it still feels like I mean, I
22:16
Speaker 2: think this team deserves credit for stabilizing itself a little bit.
22:21
Speaker 2: I mean that stretching January was pretty ugly, right Like,
22:23
Speaker 2: I mean, they only even lost fe of those games
22:25
Speaker 2: by fewer than ten points or twelve points, and there
22:29
Speaker 2: were some there were some some pretty ugly efforts in there,
22:34
Speaker 2: and I think the Indiana deserves some credit for kind
22:35
Speaker 2: of getting its feet back underneath it a little bit here.
22:38
Speaker 2: Having said that, you know it, it still doesn't feel
22:45
Speaker 2: like this team is giving itself a lot of breathing around,
22:48
Speaker 2: And it still feels like this team is remains kind
22:52
Speaker 2: of living just almost game to game. You know, if
22:55
Speaker 2: we win this game, we're in a good spot. If
22:57
Speaker 2: we lose this game, we're not. You know that, I
23:01
Speaker 2: think you can excuse the uc us C loss. But
23:03
Speaker 2: if they'd won, if they'd beaten USC and then come
23:05
Speaker 2: home and won these two games, which you know, your
23:08
Speaker 2: point's valid about Wisconsin. But if this team is a
23:11
Speaker 2: tournament team, and that's kind of maybe the best way
23:13
Speaker 2: to to caveat a lot of this. If this is
23:15
Speaker 2: a tournament team, then they need to be able to
23:18
Speaker 2: beat Wisconsin at home and certainly Oregon at home. And
23:21
Speaker 2: if Indiana had beaten USC and then gone to and
23:23
Speaker 2: O on this home stand upcoming, then we would be
23:27
Speaker 2: able to kind of look at and say, Indiana's given
23:29
Speaker 2: itself has put some clear blue water between itself and
23:32
Speaker 2: the bubble, you know, the quality of wins where things stand,
23:37
Speaker 2: Indiana has has created, you know, some some meaningful space
23:41
Speaker 2: between itself and the true bubble teams as it stands.
23:46
Speaker 2: You know, it kind of feels like they've got to
23:48
Speaker 2: go to and O just to kind of keep the
23:50
Speaker 2: train on the tracks, because I think it's gonna be
23:52
Speaker 2: very hard for them to win either of the Illinois
23:54
Speaker 2: or Purdue road games just because of matchups and environments
23:57
Speaker 2: and things, and and then you know, you put yourself
24:01
Speaker 2: in a position where you try to sprint to the line.
24:04
Speaker 2: I think if you know, if to your point about
24:07
Speaker 2: like what the magic number is, I mean, I certainly
24:09
Speaker 2: think if Indiana were to just hold Serve at home
24:12
Speaker 2: from here, that'd be a quad one. I think maybe
24:16
Speaker 2: two quad two's, you know, that would get them to
24:19
Speaker 2: twenty wins eleven wins in conference? Again, like it would
24:23
Speaker 2: it would it be an overly impressive resume. No, would
24:26
Speaker 2: it get them in I think it probably would. It's
24:28
Speaker 2: also worth pointing out, and I don't know how many
24:30
Speaker 2: people you know, have kind of dug into this yet
24:32
Speaker 2: like it is a very high major bubble, like this
24:35
Speaker 2: year's bubble is almost exclusively high majors, and and that
24:40
Speaker 2: means it it does kind of bend itself toward a
24:43
Speaker 2: team like Indiana where like the metrics are going to
24:45
Speaker 2: give you a solid floor. No, you don't have this
24:50
Speaker 2: a galloping amount of weight on your resume. But you also, again,
24:55
Speaker 2: if we can make some basic assumptions, like Indiana doesn't
24:58
Speaker 2: lose a Quad three or Quad four game on the
25:00
Speaker 2: you know, on the the run d because if they do,
25:03
Speaker 2: then we need to rethink just our our our whole
25:05
Speaker 2: sort of position on this team. You know, then Indiana
25:09
Speaker 2: is going to be in a position where it doesn't
25:11
Speaker 2: have any bad losses. It's conference is going to hold
25:14
Speaker 2: it up well, et cetera. I just, you know, even
25:19
Speaker 2: even allowing for some even allowing for some goodwill or
25:28
Speaker 2: some some some credit for the way Indiana kind of
25:31
Speaker 2: pulled itself out of that that little tail spin in January,
25:35
Speaker 2: I just don't know if we have seen enough yet
25:38
Speaker 2: from this team to trust that it's that it that
25:41
Speaker 2: it to to sort of trust with a great degree
25:44
Speaker 2: of confidence it will do what it needs to now.
25:47
Speaker 2: It might like it. There's every chance that it you know,
25:50
Speaker 2: if we could somehow gaze four weeks into the future,
25:53
Speaker 2: there's every chance we find out it did. The I
26:01
Speaker 2: think you have when you feel like the results are
26:05
Speaker 2: still just not quite as convincing as they need to be,
26:09
Speaker 2: is you don't feel like you have a confident answer
26:12
Speaker 2: to the question if if we can say with a
26:15
Speaker 2: relative degree of certainty, this is what it will take
26:19
Speaker 2: for Indiana to reach the tournament. I don't know if
26:23
Speaker 2: we have we can say confidently just yet that Indiana
26:26
Speaker 2: has the ability to do that. And I don't you know,
26:29
Speaker 2: I'm not even sure going to and zer on this
26:31
Speaker 2: homestand would necessarily just sort of suddenly provide that as
26:34
Speaker 2: a revelation unless they you know, if they want Wisconsin
26:39
Speaker 2: and they want Oregon, maybe that that changes, you know,
26:42
Speaker 2: things a little bit. But I just think it this
26:44
Speaker 2: team still feels like it's it's the jury's out on
26:47
Speaker 2: whether or not it has the the metal to get
26:50
Speaker 2: through kind of the difficult moments ahead that are going
26:52
Speaker 2: to get it off the right side of the bubble.
26:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, last thing, this big picture, you know, I picked
26:57
Speaker 1: this team tenth. I think in the Big Ten the
26:59
Speaker 1: preseason they picked them a little bit higher, but they're
27:02
Speaker 1: kind of in that range. I mean, is this season
27:04
Speaker 1: just in terms of how it's gone, does it overall
27:08
Speaker 1: like where they are record wise and where they are
27:10
Speaker 1: in the numbers, I mean, is it about what you expected?
27:12
Speaker 1: Have they performed worse than you expected? Or I'm just
27:16
Speaker 1: kind of curious kind of how you view it as
27:18
Speaker 1: a whole right now. Obviously I agree with a lot
27:20
Speaker 1: what as you said, just in terms of it's hard
27:22
Speaker 1: to know on a game to game basis what this
27:24
Speaker 1: team's gonna deliver, And I think a lot of that
27:26
Speaker 1: has to do with They've just have so many spots
27:30
Speaker 1: on their roster where there's not like a clear answer
27:33
Speaker 1: that performs every night. There's Lamar Wilkerson who's been consistent.
27:36
Speaker 1: Nick Dorn's emergence has obviously helped a lot, but you
27:39
Speaker 1: just have so many other spots where, for example, at
27:42
Speaker 1: the five, you could get the Red Bailey that played
27:44
Speaker 1: at UCLA, it could get the Red Bailly that played
27:46
Speaker 1: at USC Tayton Connorway has been in and out of
27:49
Speaker 1: the lineup with injuries. Connor right for as solid as
27:52
Speaker 1: he's played at times and been a leader on the court,
27:55
Speaker 1: struggles to score and you know, is limited of his
28:00
Speaker 1: offensive prowess. Tucker Devrees is a guy that a lot
28:03
Speaker 1: of people looked at in the preseason as a guy
28:04
Speaker 1: it's probably an All Big Ten third team player at worst,
28:07
Speaker 1: and he's been very underwhelming just in terms of his
28:10
Speaker 1: shooting percentage and Big Ten play. He's obviously done some
28:12
Speaker 1: other things well rebounding the last three or four games,
28:15
Speaker 1: but he's not the player that many people thought he
28:17
Speaker 1: was going to be. So I think you can look
28:19
Speaker 1: at it and say there's reasons kind of why the
28:21
Speaker 1: team is performing the way they are, but I'm just
28:23
Speaker 1: kind of curious how it's stacking up based on kind
28:26
Speaker 1: of what you expected going into the season and how
28:29
Speaker 1: maybe to view it as a whole right now if
28:31
Speaker 1: you're following this Indiana team, Yeah, I think, I.
28:36
Speaker 2: Mean there, you know, in terms of what I expected,
28:38
Speaker 2: and maybe a touch worse off. And I think a
28:40
Speaker 2: lot of that is just that that Indiana hasn't been
28:42
Speaker 2: able to kind of get Tucker DeVries to a place
28:44
Speaker 2: where it you know, he was what I think they
28:47
Speaker 2: probably thought he would be when they were kind of
28:49
Speaker 2: planning out this roster, and he's listening. He's you know,
28:53
Speaker 2: I think two devrees great credit. He's kind of amended
28:55
Speaker 2: his game in the last you know, month or so.
28:58
Speaker 2: He's rebounding the ball better, passing it well obvious you
29:02
Speaker 2: can he can tell you is intentionally trying to find
29:05
Speaker 2: ways to impact the game beyond his scoring because he
29:07
Speaker 2: just kind of can't find his offense. And you know,
29:10
Speaker 2: someone asked me on a radio hit recently if he
29:13
Speaker 2: was healthy. I said, I can't put words in anyone's mouth.
29:17
Speaker 2: I do wonder if you know there's you know, there
29:19
Speaker 2: can be a difference between are you full go right
29:21
Speaker 2: now and are you maybe feeling like longer term effects
29:26
Speaker 2: of injuries and things. Because it's easier for it's easy
29:29
Speaker 2: for all guys like us to you know, see these
29:33
Speaker 2: players as as you know, kind of indestructible given their
29:35
Speaker 2: age and their fitness. But like one hundred and thirty
29:37
Speaker 2: one games in college a lot, especially for someone who
29:40
Speaker 2: probably got a lot of physical defensive attention for most
29:43
Speaker 2: of his career. And we know he's had I think
29:46
Speaker 2: he think he's mentioned I think multiple shoulder surgeries. And anyway,
29:49
Speaker 2: we don't need to go too far down that I
29:51
Speaker 2: think you know that this team is maybe half a
29:55
Speaker 2: step below what I thought it would be. And that's
29:58
Speaker 2: maybe the reason why is because there's not that consistent
30:02
Speaker 2: sort of second offensive presence behind Lamar Wilkerson. Sometimes Indiana
30:06
Speaker 2: gets it, but it's not consistently coming from a place
30:09
Speaker 2: that Indiana can plan for. I think you can say that,
30:12
Speaker 2: and I certainly think that if Indiana doesn't make the
30:14
Speaker 2: tournament this year, you're allowed to call this season it
30:16
Speaker 2: is a disappointment. I don't think that's unfair at all.
30:19
Speaker 2: But I think you can do that while also saying
30:21
Speaker 2: in the same breath that a lot of the ideas
30:25
Speaker 2: look good and and that that you know this. There
30:28
Speaker 2: were always going to be these two parallel tracks to
30:30
Speaker 2: a coach's first season. One is the success of that
30:32
Speaker 2: season literally, how many games do you win? Do you
30:35
Speaker 2: go to the NCAA tournament, how long are you there,
30:38
Speaker 2: who do you beat? Et cetera. And then the wider
30:41
Speaker 2: idea of proof of concept, you know, and did Indiana
30:46
Speaker 2: hire a guy who runs good actions, who teach as well,
30:49
Speaker 2: whose players get better? You know, who gets the buy
30:53
Speaker 2: in off the roster that he needs and I think that,
30:56
Speaker 2: you know, even if you are frustrated with what's happened
30:59
Speaker 2: on the court, and even frankly, you know, we get
31:01
Speaker 2: to a point where Indiana, for example, doesn't make the tournament,
31:04
Speaker 2: and then everyone's frustration would be you know, even a
31:07
Speaker 2: little bit more justified. Even if you do that, though,
31:12
Speaker 2: I think you can still look at this season and
31:13
Speaker 2: say there is there is genuine proof of concept there.
31:17
Speaker 2: You know, the idea of what Indiana can be under
31:20
Speaker 2: Darren Devrees is is kind of laid playing essentially, and listen,
31:27
Speaker 2: that doesn't guarantee is gonna be a successful long term.
31:29
Speaker 2: He's still got to find guys to fill those roles.
31:32
Speaker 2: And you know, Indiana's got to hit shots at a
31:34
Speaker 2: higher rate than it did this year, especially for how
31:37
Speaker 2: many it's going to take, and you know, we could
31:40
Speaker 2: I'd be fascinated to kind of pick devres brain and
31:42
Speaker 2: whether or not he does wish he had a bit
31:44
Speaker 2: more of a post up big, you know, just for
31:47
Speaker 2: just for those moments when things are really going stale offensively,
31:50
Speaker 2: just just a big guy to kick it into that
31:52
Speaker 2: can kind of slow the game down, bring teammates into play,
31:56
Speaker 2: you know, back down is defender all those kinds of things.
31:58
Speaker 2: I don't think it's unfair to see the season is
32:00
Speaker 2: a disappointment if Indiana doesn't make the tournament. I do
32:04
Speaker 2: think it would be unfair to say it's guaranteed that
32:08
Speaker 2: this coach will fail if he doesn't make the tournament
32:11
Speaker 2: in year one and so. And I know the statement
32:15
Speaker 2: sounds slightly incongruous, but I think it. I think you
32:20
Speaker 2: can say both with a relative degree of certainty or
32:25
Speaker 2: a relative degree of confidence. And I think that you know,
32:30
Speaker 2: from from Indiana's perspective, it's just can you find a
32:34
Speaker 2: way to get a little bit more particularly offensive consistency
32:38
Speaker 2: out of players that aren't Luar Wilkerson between now and
32:41
Speaker 2: the end of the year.
32:42
Speaker 1: Well, so, Zach, We'll have everything covered obviously on inside
32:45
Speaker 1: the Hall of Zach will have things covered over at
32:48
Speaker 1: the Indie Star. Make sure if you're not listening to
32:51
Speaker 1: this podcast with with Mike over at the HT, mind
32:55
Speaker 1: your banners. They do that, I believe live on YouTube
32:58
Speaker 1: usually and then obviously you can find it wherever you
33:00
Speaker 1: listen to your podcast. Make sure you check out the show.
33:02
Speaker 1: Read Zach's work over at the Indie Star. Thanks again,
33:05
Speaker 1: Zach for taking the time to join us. If you
33:07
Speaker 1: enjoy the show, please leave us the rating and review
33:10
Speaker 1: over on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. As I said at
33:12
Speaker 1: the top, same thing over on YouTube. Like the video,
33:14
Speaker 1: subscribe to the channel, and we'll be back soon with
33:17
Speaker 1: another episode of podcast on the Break.