Latest / Identity at the Center / #73 - All The IAM Things with Nishant Kaushik

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#73 - All The IAM Things with Nishant Kaushik · Identity at the Center

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This is the identity at the center podcast.
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This is a show that talks about identity and access management
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and making sure you know who has access to what?
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Let's get started. Welcome to the identity of the
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center podcast I'm Jeff and that's Jim.
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Hey Jim hey Jeff, how's it going?
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Not so bad yourself. Elf good man.
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It's a sweatshirt weather. Which presents a challenge for
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me? Because now I have a 16 year old
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in the house. He's getting bigger and stealing
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my clothes. And so, when I went through my,
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my stock of shirts and long pants, I realized there were
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many missing so we had a little talk and I got some of them back
1:01
and yeah, I'm enjoying the crisp whether they smell.
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Okay, early, it's out of they smell when he got him back.
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Yeah, they were there were find Irvine.
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And you know I'm really excited about our guest today is
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somebody had a chance to work with at a denture be few years
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back is actually one of the people I really look forward to
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working with you just somebody that had a lot of respect for
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and a lot of you know just excitement to work with is kind
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of a thought leader in our space.
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So I think our listeners are in for a real treat today.
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Yeah. And the biz, I think we call
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this a good get right as professional podcasters that.
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We are, why don't we go ahead and introduce them?
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His name is Nishant. Kaushik.
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He is a CTO at Yuna Kim. He's a former ident, ra p,
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alumnus and all around identity Maven.
1:51
Welcome to the show and Sean. Thanks, thanks for having me.
1:53
Thanks for the kind words. Thanks for taking the time to
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sit with us here. Virtually.
1:59
You know, I was trying to think about what our conversation
2:01
today was going to be about. We usually try to have kind of
2:03
like a theme and I'm looking over kind of like the notes and
2:06
kind of things that we were thinking about and it's really
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today's Eames. We don't really have a theme
2:12
other than it's just a bunch of. I am related topics and
2:15
questions for you and maybe hit towards the end, get to some
2:18
predictions since we're getting towards the end of the air and
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that's kind of the hot thing, right?
2:22
Do predictions for the next year.
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Hopefully, it would be better for all, but maybe we can get to
2:27
that. But before we get to that, why
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don't we start with you and your background?
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I'm curious as to, how did you get into I am?
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Is it something that you chose or did it choose you?
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I think it Would be fair to say that I fell into it, right?
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So whether it shows me or not, I don't know, it may be regretting
2:46
those choices now but I definitely didn't set out to be
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in. I am, I was basically this goes
2:54
all the way back to 2000 and I was at a startup that was About
3:03
to go kablooey. So I was looking in the market
3:07
looking for a job and found a senior developer posting for
3:12
start-up in downtown Manhattan that I applied to went and did
3:16
the interview and they had an office in the World, Trade
3:22
Center on the 87th floor, and my reason for joining, besides the
3:27
cool cat, who interviewed me, who was British and A friend of
3:32
mine John, I seen besides that was the fact that on the 87th
3:37
floor. It was a really cool View and I
3:38
was like, hey, it was fun to work here.
3:41
So that's basically what let me do.
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Join them and we were working on active directory, and managing
3:48
active directory accounts. And, you know, like I said,
3:52
didn't really know. It was, I am in any way, shape,
3:54
or form for a long time. As we just started going through
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the Journey of working on the product and just continue
3:59
through that. And I think organically grown.
4:02
You into what any defeat has ended up being a long career in
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the IND industry? The shock?
4:09
Could you maybe give us kind of, some of the I'm really excited
4:13
because I think I know your background, right?
4:16
But I think for our listeners may be some of the companies you
4:18
worked at along the way, including identity, which is
4:21
probably the greatest one say for eunuch in, okay?
4:24
But when you give us a little bit of a background of some of
4:28
the, the companies you work for maybe some of the things you did
4:31
at those places. Sure so when I joined poor
4:35
Technologies which is the company I was referring to just
4:38
now we were basically building a tool that started out with
4:43
active directory but essentially became one of the main
4:48
provisioning products in the industry.
4:52
For a long time, we were competing against company.
4:55
You may have heard of called we've set and we had a really
4:59
strong rivalry against that. And so that was a good five
5:06
years of my life, build some really solid knowledge, they're
5:09
rising up through like they said, starting out as a senior
5:12
developer but then transitioning to becoming product.
5:16
Architect as I led the building of the product from purely
5:20
provisioning to getting into things like access governance
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at, you know, the start of what became is now known as identity
5:26
governance and building some of the recertification features and
5:31
things like that. And that led us to achieving
5:35
some pretty good Market traction.
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Did some good work with large financial institutions that
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basically ended up with us getting acquired by Oracle in
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2005. And so I then spent the next I
5:48
want to say seven years of my life, really getting into
5:53
identity management across all its Dimensions.
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Looking at the whole portfolio of all the products that Oracle
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had and then some because they acquired son, Of course, towards
6:03
the end of my tenure, there will be actually had two of every
6:06
product. And that was a big part of what
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I was working on is how to reconcile the portfolio.
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But, you know, towards my, the end of my tenure there, that was
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when there was a lot of interest in the shift towards SAS and
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what's a cement for identity, both from the perspective of how
6:27
identity fits into the SAS Enterprise model, as well as
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what it meant for us. In terms of delivering identity
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as a sand and worked, a little bit on trying to come up with a
6:38
strategy for what that meant for Oracle, which wasn't really
6:41
going anywhere. And that's when I was approached
6:45
by our old colleagues Frank and Ranjit to join this little phone
6:50
call I'd entropy that had this idea of, hey, there's we have
6:55
all these really good practices that we've deployed over and
6:58
over again in solving the identity management problem.
7:02
If he took those best practices and encapsulate that into SAS
7:06
product. And so that led me to joining.
7:08
I did pee and trying to build little, I'd a solution that you
7:14
know, we had a good ride. It was we were I think you were
7:17
on our way to building something, really interesting
7:19
and really good. But, you know, it wasn't to be
7:23
because we actually got snatched up by CA Technologies and the
7:26
product became the basis for what would be their second
7:30
income, you know, second It version of an eye Dash product
7:35
that they tried to bring to Market.
7:38
So that led me to say it again, or you could let my tenure there
7:41
wasn't nearly, as long as it was at Oracle.
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I lost it there a year before I jumped out to spend a little bit
7:50
of time working on a Consulting on a Consulting basis while I
7:54
try to figure out what I want to do next.
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And then that's when I joined eunuch and where I am CTO right
8:01
now, running our G vision and product Direction.
8:05
The Sean has got to be a bit of validation for you that, you
8:08
know, I remember so many of the ideas that you had around all
8:13
the product being called squid life cycle.
8:15
When it was with identity, be that you and the team kind of
8:19
built from from the ground up, but kind of with the vision of
8:24
it, being a true software's identity as a as a service, you
8:31
know. Is a service offering an API
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approach. It's got to be validating to
8:39
you. Now that you see that the market
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really is all about that today, right?
8:44
Oh, absolutely, I think you know I think we had the right idea.
8:49
We definitely had the right approach, maybe it was just
8:55
timing or whatever you want to call it.
8:58
But you know, it definitely feels like we Were on the right
9:03
path and the market. As you said, has definitely
9:07
shifted towards that between the growth of SAS between the
9:11
emergence of really usable strong standards in this space.
9:18
It really has helped us go beyond where we were back when
9:21
we started the project which was yes, ass is great for identity.
9:25
If you're thinking about authentication, going anything
9:27
beyond that, you know, is it really a good idea and fast?
9:32
Vaulting was sort of state of the art.
9:36
And obviously, now we are way way beyond that and, you know,
9:42
you've got great companies in the space doing really well on
9:47
that front with driven by apis and standards.
9:50
Yeah. It's, I think you bought a
9:52
timing and I think, you know, there's always the idea of the
9:56
first mover Advantage being a great thing.
9:59
But if you're too early, That can also be a disadvantage.
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And also I think when you're starting something up like that,
10:09
maybe a little bit of luck would help.
10:10
They always say in baseball better to be lucky than to be
10:13
good, right? No doubt about that.
10:17
Yeah. Yeah.
10:18
No doubt. So now your eunuch in your the
10:20
CTO there, can you tell us a little bit about what eunuch in
10:24
is what problem eunuch in the solving one of the challenges
10:28
that I saw in the identity industry through that entire
10:31
Journey. But I just Client was, we're
10:34
really good at understanding technology and how to, and
10:38
coming up with technology oriented Solutions.
10:41
But there's this disconnect between the great technology and
10:44
standards that we come up with, and whether it's actually
10:47
solving the business problem that customers have I, but, you
10:50
know, 20 years later, we're still struggling with some of
10:53
the basics, right? Organizations are still
10:55
struggling with the basics. We still have passwords
10:57
provisioning is still a nightmare.
10:59
Governance is still a huge Challenge and integration.
11:02
Projects take forever. So that was, you know, a big
11:06
part of my learning over the over the over the course of the
11:09
years. And you know, I've started
11:11
veering towards looking for how can we simplify how can we make
11:14
things better? And one of the things that
11:16
attracted me to unicorn was that rather than being very
11:19
technology or it was really focused on its mission
11:22
statement. Right, it's missions.
11:23
Our mission statement is that we make connecting safe, simple and
11:27
scalable for digital first businesses and it's a measure of
11:31
mission statement. Around a purpose and as opposed
11:34
to a technology. And so that's really what
11:38
attracted me to join the company.
11:40
And when I joined the company, we had two really interesting
11:44
core piece of innovation that the original Founders said
11:48
created but it was narrow. And what we've seen over the
11:53
last few years, what we've been able to do is really expand and
11:57
enhance that poor to build the real ID security platform, which
12:01
is our core product set. Its the, you know, it's a zero
12:07
trust security platform for the digital first business, and what
12:11
that means is we really look at how to take businesses that are
12:17
consumer facing and help them create a secure interaction,
12:22
model, that allows insecure customer Journeys, and
12:25
engagements end-to-end across their omni-channel engagement.
12:34
With customers, right? So every business that is now
12:37
digital for digital. Every business is a digital
12:39
business at this point, right? And you have so many different
12:41
channels. You know, mobile is the
12:43
fastest-growing one, but where we still obviously the dominant,
12:46
and you now have new channels, whether you still have the old
12:49
ones like the in-person channel, you know, you know, still have
12:53
branches. Well, not in the age of Coburn,
12:54
maybe but you still have branches and stuff.
12:56
But you also now have new channels like the call center,
12:59
you have smart home assistance etcetera, As a digital business
13:04
you need to make sure all of those channels are available to
13:07
you know engage with your customers and you need them to
13:11
have consistent security across all of that, whether it's
13:14
security authentication. All those pieces need to be done
13:17
in the same fashion and it needs to be done with an idea on user
13:20
experience. And so that's really what we set
13:23
out to solve is how can we provide a platform that enables
13:26
businesses to engage with customers safely and securely
13:29
across all their channels? And we That's what we've been
13:33
working on with that focus on delivering, Amazing Security
13:36
with a phenomenal customer experience.
13:38
So, with that customer experience.
13:40
I know you also are part of several different groups, that
13:45
kind of talk through inclusion and diversity and things like
13:49
that. Especially, I am space things
13:50
like women, and identity, and better identity Coalition.
13:55
Talk to me about both of those organizations.
13:57
What, what is actually your involvement with each of them?
14:00
Sure. So, There's so it's interesting
14:04
in terms of how we because like I said we're not Technologies at
14:09
the center of our mission. Our mission is actually around
14:11
the customer. It's actually led us to all
14:13
these different aspects of identity, identity.
14:15
One of the reasons why I'm in a daily or maybe I stuck around
14:18
and identity is because it's such a fascinating space and
14:22
there's so many different facets are aspects to, right?
14:24
So on the technology front, you know, you NE can is a member of
14:29
Fido Alliance so, you know, quite Alliance Y'all know.
14:32
So I'm not going to spend too much time on that and I know I'm
14:34
sure you've covered that in previous podcasts as well.
14:38
But there's other aspects to Identity that go beyond
14:41
technology. So one of that, one of those is
14:44
the fact that identity touches so many aspects of business that
14:48
it needs to be designed for equity and inclusion.
14:52
And you can't design for equity and inclusion, unless the teams
14:56
that are building it themselves are designed with equity and
15:00
inclusion. So you need to have a diverse
15:05
set of individuals that are helping build digital identity
15:09
solutions for everybody and really that's what the mission
15:13
statement for women and identity is women identity.
15:15
Basically is focused on multiple initiatives that are sort of
15:22
targeted at making sure that the digital identities 3.
15:25
Digital identity industry is more diverse, has a more diverse
15:28
Workforce is able to bring in different people with different
15:32
Viewpoints that can therefore influence the technology, we
15:36
building to make sure that it caters to those different
15:38
individuals and diverse groups. So it's an ex and, you know,
15:43
amazing organization with an amazing leadership team.
15:46
They do a lot of really good work, whether it's highlighting
15:49
people, whether it's highlighting areas of identity
15:53
that we don't necessarily focus on or talk about too much.
15:57
They've been very vocal For example, on the topic of how, by
16:02
Metrics has bias built into it and what we need to do as
16:06
technology vendors and practitioners to eliminate that
16:09
bias, because it has very real world consequences amongst other
16:14
things, right? So they're really good at
16:17
highlighting these issues and you know, creating the
16:20
discussion that is needed. So we've been, you know, member
16:24
of the group since the very Inception when it was being
16:30
created at, I think The identifiers conference, the
16:35
founders were sitting and planning out what the
16:36
organization is going to look like.
16:37
And at unit, can we sponsored them?
16:41
Because we believe in that statement, right?
16:43
We add that eunuch and we are actually involved in projects
16:47
all across the world. Not only how do we have
16:49
implementations going on in the us, but we have it in Central
16:54
America, in Africa, southeast Asia, and the issues of equity
16:59
inclusion, Etc. Show up in many different
17:01
fashions. Ian's in those different
17:03
regions. So, this is a topic that's very
17:05
important to us. Not just for me personally but
17:07
also from a corporate perspective, we care about that
17:10
very much because we see the impact that has on our
17:13
customers. That's very important topic and
17:16
it sounds like you guys are doing great work there.
17:19
We added a member of our team. She actually was on the podcast
17:24
with his last week, might have Gonzales somebody with 15 years
17:28
of experience in the space. And honestly, You know, we would
17:32
have hired hired her irregardless of, you know, the
17:37
inclusion angle because yours the best candidate qualified.
17:40
But one of the things I think is important is for those kind of
17:44
entry level positions to try to attract women into the, I am
17:49
industry. So, you know, I would encourage
17:51
any of our listeners out there who are, you know, in those
17:54
positions where they can, you know, bring Talent into this
17:58
industry to give consideration to that.
18:01
I mean, You know, I got into identity and access management
18:04
back in 2003 definitely was a male-dominated industry.
18:10
Probably just some extent that's true today as well.
18:13
I definitely seeing more women in the I am space since then but
18:22
I think it's not something that you know we want to drop the
18:26
ball on or not put a focus on yet today and into the future.
18:31
Absolutely. Evening.
18:34
And the other thing you the other organization you mentioned
18:37
was better, identical alishan. So, as I mentioned identity
18:42
being multipass, has a better identity Coalition, looks at
18:44
identity from the policy and regulations and sort of
18:47
public-private partnership angle.
18:50
So the better identity Coalition is sort of medicine initiative,
18:55
out of a non-profit. And the objective of the
18:59
membership is to actually influence policy makers.
19:02
It on the hill. It's very u.s.
19:04
Centric, though. It does look at things globally,
19:07
but its focus is on the US market and its really focused on
19:12
influencing policy initiatives that are happening.
19:17
Because they understand, we understand that what happens in
19:21
identity influences, businesses of all nature, right?
19:27
Whether its Financial, whether it's health care, whether it's
19:30
government, like in terms of, Says that Citizens need from the
19:33
government identity is critical to all of that and it can't be
19:38
done without policies being in place that help it.
19:43
So the bike ride any questions really focused on that.
19:45
You know public-private partnership aspect of it
19:48
influencing policy. For example they've been very
19:53
influential in one of in with engagement that has led to HR 8
19:58
to 15 which is a new bipartisan bill that has been In the house
20:03
by representative Bill Foster called, the improving, digital
20:07
identity Act of 2020. And its really focused on
20:09
addressing shortcomings, in America's digital identity
20:12
Fabric, and creating better ways for Americans to be able to do
20:16
business securely online. I know that you and I are both
20:20
members of ID Pro, which is another, I am focused
20:23
organization, and you mentioned identify verse, I did you did do
20:27
it. A identifiers talked earlier
20:29
this year that was around Mission Impossible, which I
20:31
thought was great. Way I guess.
20:34
We're how do you see organizations?
20:36
Like I be Pro fitting into that kind of I guess the world of I
20:42
am organizations, right? There's women and identity,
20:44
there's better yet, better identity Coalition, there's ID
20:46
Pro. There is no fight Alliance and
20:49
seems like there is some sort of group or Coalition, or whatever.
20:55
It may, be four very different areas of I am.
20:59
And that there's a lot of It easy for people to kind of pick
21:03
and choose, maybe even specific or multiple groups that they
21:06
would like to contribute to. Absolutely.
21:08
So yeah. So I've been a member of ID Pro
21:10
since the beginning as well. Don't really have a choice.
21:14
I think Ian was onstage. Staying straight at me saying
21:16
you need to sign up and I was like, okay, so goes back to the
21:23
origin stories, right? Like we as we, you know, as it
21:26
sounds like you ask everybody about their origin story and
21:28
it's kind of the same, right? We all know buddy, set out to be
21:31
in. I am All kind of fell into.
21:33
I am in some way, shape, or form or got drawn into I am from
21:36
sideways sideways. And that's because I identity is
21:41
not something that people set out to be.
21:44
Unlike other pillars, like security, like privacy identity
21:49
has lacked that professional aspect of it.
21:51
And that leads that is hand in had time to how the industry
21:56
will evolve, right? We talked about the lack of
22:00
talent or the lack of focus, Most of the folks in the
22:03
industry learned about identity by working on a product by being
22:07
professional and Technical product.
22:09
Like, I mentioned mine was, I had to learn how to integrate
22:12
and manage active directory so it was very focused on active
22:15
directory and Microsoft Technologies and it's just
22:19
through the building of our product that I started to get
22:22
exposed to more and more and sort of grew my knowledge over
22:25
time and it grew organically which is great.
22:28
I mean it's your folded me a lot of Amazing opportunities in my
22:34
life but it takes a long time to feel like, you know, what you're
22:39
doing. And you know what you're talking
22:40
about. It actually then start making a
22:42
difference and given how important identity is we just
22:46
can't afford that kind of lag in development of talent.
22:50
And that's what I recall is trying to address, right?
22:53
So, like I said, you know, it's its identity at the center as
22:59
your podcast is called, you know, Means that it there's it
23:04
has a 360-degree view that you have to care about.
23:07
So whether it's people, whether its policy, whether its
23:10
technology, all of those aspects need to be addressed.
23:12
And as you said, there's an organization for what?
23:16
Each one of those many organizations for each one of
23:18
those. So it can be a little bit, it
23:20
can be a little bit on thing and we're going to have Ian on here
23:24
and I'll come and show hopefully the next few weeks.
23:26
So I don't want to spoil his Thunder but Ida Pro recently did
23:29
a skill survey and you know, Of the questions that gets asked.
23:33
And that is, how long did it take before?
23:37
You felt proficient in? I am, I think, the most common
23:41
answer was somewhere between like, I think it was 5 and 10,
23:44
or maybe it's 10 and 15 years. But there was, it was, when I
23:49
say common answer really wasn't that much different than other
23:52
answers to. So I think there's a lot of
23:53
discrepancy and variation between.
23:55
Well, what is, what is cot, you know, comfortable mean from an I
23:59
am perspective, I feel good on an Ops perspective.
24:02
That's how I grew up. It's funny.
24:03
I had an opposite experiences gym when I joined I am kind of
24:08
officially for the first time I joined a group of ID
24:10
administrators and I was the only guy on the team.
24:13
It was all it was all women on the team.
24:14
So I learned, you know, I am from from those folks and kind
24:18
of grew up on the operation side.
24:20
So that's where I'm most comfortable and I would say,
24:22
still am because that's worth had the most experience in you
24:26
start branching out and you realize that I am as so many
24:28
other facets to it, that are both Technical and On Technical.
24:33
And it can take a quite a while before you get the exposure to
24:36
all of that. Where, you know, now I feel
24:39
like, okay, yeah, I've got a, I've got a pretty good handle
24:41
and I am stuff but there's always something new to learn,
24:45
right? There's some new technology,
24:46
some new framework, or some other thing, right?
24:51
The kind of comes along, and it's like, okay, let's think
24:54
let's rethink this and think about how this should work going
24:57
forward. And, and, you know, put the past
24:59
behind us and how should it work versus well?
25:02
It's just the way we've always done and that's one of the
25:04
things that I thought was interesting about your
25:06
identifiers talk. It was themed Around Mission
25:09
Impossible and one of the things that I pulled out of it was you
25:13
had a statement around Biometrics as convenience versus
25:17
security and I thought that was only interested in maybe in kind
25:20
of summarize and tease it because I'm going to have a link
25:22
to that in our show notes Here for people to check out.
25:24
But make, I talk about what you meant by that real briefly.
25:27
Sure. So the reason so that mission
25:31
impossible, The PM that allows me to inject some humor and some
25:35
sort of Interest into the talk, but they the actual objective of
25:41
my talk was to actually address some of the myths that exist in
25:45
identity management. Some common myths that exist and
25:48
it was really born out of my frustration from having been,
25:51
like I said, in trying to solve problems for businesses,
25:55
constantly running up against the brick wall of these nets and
25:57
how they really skew the discussion or prevent
26:00
organizations from Doing the right thing in many cases and
26:05
one of the one of those is there's a lot of myths and
26:09
Biometrics right and how they fit into the equation.
26:12
And the common thing that you would hear over and over again,
26:18
is Biometrics are not good for security and they are, but
26:23
they're a good convenience factor and it's really rooted in
26:25
this idea that Biometrics are being, you know, being used to
26:32
make it easy for users to login so that they don't have to type
26:35
in a password on a in a in a poor the not if having to type
26:40
the password passcode into their device and the biometric is
26:43
easy. And for sure, it is from a user
26:47
experience perspective really useful.
26:49
Because the data backs that up, right before the introduction of
26:53
things like touch ID and Android fingerprints.
26:57
The number of devices on which Pascal was enabled was really
27:01
low and it tripled after Touch ID, and enter fingerprint were
27:07
introduced simply because users were sick and tired of having to
27:11
type their pass codes in all the time.
27:13
And it just make became a super easy experience for them.
27:18
But that led to this idea that is about convenience and
27:20
security aspects of it are weaker and what I'm trying to
27:25
address in the talk. Is no, you have to understand
27:29
what the security characteristics of Biometrics
27:31
are apply them properly and if you apply them properly, they
27:35
actually are better for security in.
27:38
You just have to make sure that it fits into your overall threat
27:41
models and, and things like that.
27:43
So having that's one of the reasons why if you look at what
27:48
Fido has done in their work, Fido leverages on device
27:51
Biometrics significantly as part of its recommendations not
27:55
required. Obviously, You can use a yubikey
27:58
and yubikey, even though your bikini just came up with the
28:01
biometric reader on their yubikey, you Vicki doesn't
28:04
require a biometric. So it's not like Biometrics is a
28:07
required part of fight, the fight of protocol but every
28:11
everything you see and hear from the five Alliance, they talk
28:15
about the significant benefit of using on device Biometrics.
28:21
And so I think that fighting that misconception, Is pretty
28:27
critical. As we start looking at, how can
28:31
we make the landscape of security and authentication
28:34
better not introduced passwords their passwords and not existed
28:38
before? Get rid of pastures, where
28:40
passwords are in existential threat and issue to the security
28:44
officers services today. Biometrics can be hugely helpful
28:49
but it has to be done the right way.
28:50
And unless you, even unless you start looking at the security
28:54
aspects of it, you're not going to know how to deploy the right
28:56
way. So does Sean on the on the Fido
29:00
topic? I did want to point out that we
29:02
had on episode number 56 for anybody who's interested and
29:06
Russia key are who's the executive director for Fido.
29:09
So you want to go back and kind of learn more about 50 and kind
29:14
of what they're all about. That's an excellent way to do
29:18
it. I think we'd be remiss though.
29:20
In a while we have you here to not bring up the topic of the
29:25
pandemic and how it's change life for all of us and in some
29:29
ways, created New Opportunities. I mean one of the greatest
29:32
opportunities for me is a lot less Hotel.
29:34
Nice. This is this year but it's also
29:37
created opportunities for the bad guys.
29:39
You know, it's commit fraud and I'm wondering, you know, kind of
29:43
with your work. What are you seeing as some of
29:45
the things that have opened up or the fraud that has gotten
29:51
potentially worse given the current situation?
29:55
Sure, it's Pretty obvious. I think if you were to start
30:00
looking around, you'll see the data that.
30:05
What the shut, what covid resulted in with the increased
30:10
work from home. Environment is sort of an
30:13
escalation of attacks that already existed, but basically
30:17
got suped up and went into turbo mode, right?
30:20
So if the shift of employees going from in office to working
30:26
from home, I meant that the Lacs security practices that were in
30:33
place. Kind of got exposed the attack
30:36
surface basically got increased, right?
30:37
You had way more people that are now available for you to
30:41
leverage as an attacker as part of your campaign, right?
30:45
So if you look at, for example, whether it's fishing or wishing
30:50
or which is voice phishing campaigns those increased
30:55
dramatically after, The increase in remote remote work and the
31:00
reason for that is, you know, had a lot had a larger
31:03
population of users that you could try to trick into
31:07
divulging passwords and system. Access and fishing is a numbers
31:13
game, right? It's the more people you can try
31:15
to attack. There's a certain percentage
31:17
that are going to fall fall fall for it.
31:20
So the more number of people you have that you can attack the
31:23
higher the chances of getting in and the Shift to work from home,
31:28
really expose that and it really exposed how our sort of security
31:33
models were not designed for it, right?
31:35
We had models that were designed for a 30% work from home.
31:40
Work force, working remotely, but when shifted from, 30% to
31:45
95% all of a sudden, those security models didn't work you
31:49
now had Organizations. Having to deal with employees
31:55
that were working from home on their personal computers on
32:00
their home, unsecured and open wi-fi with other devices from
32:06
in, from their family members on the same Wi-Fi.
32:10
And so the security model that organizations had completely
32:14
falls apart and you're exposed and it just really has resulted
32:21
in Dramatic increase in phishing attacks voice phishing attacks.
32:28
We saw this TV show The Voice spear phishing campaign.
32:30
That actually resulted in all those high profile, all those
32:34
high profile, Twitter accounts, all of a sudden promoting
32:38
Bitcoin. That was the result of a voice
32:40
phishing attack on Twitter employees that had that were
32:43
working from home and had sensitive credentials include
32:46
sensitive access to internal systems.
32:49
We've seen the impact Tan Citizen Services, right?
32:54
So for example, we saw with unemployment benefits not being
33:00
ready for the huge, number of claims that we're going to get
33:03
filed. We've seen a large number of
33:06
fraud cases, against the system. I think Illinois reported that
33:13
they had more than 120, 1,000 instances of unemployment fraud,
33:17
because the benefit system wasn't designed to do proper
33:21
identity proofing. And so on.
33:24
So it did, it's exposing the weaknesses in our end-to-end
33:28
security model, whether it's identity proofing, whether it's
33:30
strong authentication, whether it's channel security, this is
33:36
this is at the core of what I was talking about, in our zero
33:39
trust model. Where we look at not just we're
33:42
not just looking a strong authentication, but we actually
33:44
combined strong authentication with things like network
33:47
security and channel security, device, security posture.
33:51
And Identity, proofing, and verification for onboarding.
33:56
Those things have to be put together into a single security
34:00
platform in order for you to get that defense and back necessary
34:03
to attack to protect against this new threat model new attack
34:07
surface environment that organizations are dealing with.
34:09
So Sean one thing that I want to just throw out there like you've
34:13
been in this industry. Now I think for like the full
34:18
cycle of what the industry is really from starting with or
34:22
going to Circle back into the Consulting space, or I think
34:27
you're more on the product development space, but then
34:29
going to see a, you've kind of seen the all the different
34:33
vendors come onto the magic quadrant, if you will.
34:36
And and some of them move down to less relevance, and what I'm
34:41
getting at is, you know, primarily at one point in the
34:46
game it was like see a Oracle and IBM were the most relevant
34:50
and kind of the the only options for large Enterprises in terms
34:56
of I am they've lost a lot of relevance to these days and
35:01
other companies have had the opportunity to kind of eat their
35:05
lunch. I wonder if you agree with that
35:08
statement and kind of what are the trends that you think.
35:13
LED that to happen. I mean first off I want to throw
35:16
out there that I think I am is just an industry that gives
35:20
opportunities for startups with great ideas to you know blow up
35:26
and become relevant. Even not overnight but
35:29
definitely within a short period of time and it puts some of the
35:35
larger players that are disadvantaged if they're not
35:37
kind of staying on that Cutting Edge and if they're their
35:41
strategy is just to Kind of acquire their way to relevance.
35:46
I think they have a harder push but, you know, putting that out
35:49
there. I wonder how much of that you
35:52
agree with and kind of what do you think led to what I'll call.
35:57
I'll use the term the kind of the demise of Oracle and see a
36:01
as kind of being the most relevant.
36:03
I am players, I think it's called.
36:06
It's what you described that I am.
36:08
Is such a constantly evolving space.
36:13
That unless you're staying on top of it, you're being agile,
36:16
you being Nimble and you're in continuously investing and
36:19
innovating, and building your Solutions.
36:23
You are going to fall behind because the solution identity is
36:29
so critical to organizations today.
36:33
Whether it's from a security perspective, whether it's from a
36:36
compliance perspective, whether it's from a customer experience
36:38
was like that that you just cannot afford to have sub.
36:43
Our identity practices and technology in your portfolio.
36:47
So organizations so vendors that have not focused on identity and
36:54
continue to invest in involving it with the times, you run the
36:58
risk of you know, the technology becoming stale and therefore it
37:03
relevant to many organizations. And I think That's one of the
37:07
things that I think happened with some of the larger
37:09
organizations is that identity wasn't core to what they want to
37:13
do. They had different centers of
37:15
gravity that made them make certain choices that in the
37:19
large scheme of things for women.
37:21
Organization's perspective may not have been the wrong thing,
37:24
but specifically for the ride, I do business in the sense that it
37:27
wasn't necessarily the right thing to keep them competitive
37:29
in the market and open the opened opened and opportunity.
37:36
The four other vendors to come in and be more Innovative be
37:41
more agile and also take advantage of New Frontiers that
37:45
were opening up that the old technology wasn't ready for
37:46
whether it's the emergence of SAS.
37:49
Well, as the emergence of API based methodology as opposed to
37:54
UI based methodology is that it's whether it's the, the
38:02
arrival of standards that could actually be deployed in a
38:06
Practical fashion and had gone through the ringer of going from
38:10
being theoretical and academic to becoming more practical and
38:15
realistic in actual production. Deployments I think I am
38:21
identity as an industry moves so fast and involves so much that
38:27
it requires a lot of care and attention.
38:30
So unless as a vendor you're doing that, you're not going to
38:33
be able to keep up with the evolution.
38:34
Do I think what Under that deserves to be highlighted here
38:40
as Microsoft. Right?
38:41
Microsoft has been the technology giant since we've
38:46
been in it and they never really were the much of an I am.
38:53
Vendor, if you will, they always had active directory, but they
38:56
never really got into the access management space and they had
39:01
some offerings, but they're never kind of leaders.
39:06
But boy oh boy, I think at this point they put themselves in the
39:11
pole position where I think what I hear a lot of people say and I
39:15
agree with this comment is if they want to go after your space
39:18
watch out they'll take it over and I think a couple things
39:22
happened right? I think they made the the shift
39:24
to the cloud Office 365 which had massive adoption and then
39:30
they bundle of allowed there. I am services in with that
39:34
offering which Really position them well for customer adoption
39:39
but also you know from a product offering perspective they made
39:43
the shift toward open standard so now you have a cloud base
39:46
open standard that you're more or less giving the product to
39:51
the customers who are buying other services and they fit
39:55
right in with those services. But then also support, open
39:58
standard. So you have the, The Wider
40:00
connectivity. I just feel like they probably
40:05
have done. Best job in terms of, you know,
40:09
going from irrelevance to relevance especially considering
40:12
their large Enterprise it provider.
40:16
Yeah, I mean, it's it's not just what you mentioned but it's also
40:20
the fact that they made the investment, they recognize the
40:23
importance of identity and they made the investment.
40:26
Both in terms of bringing absolute rock stars to their
40:30
team, folks like them dingo, if you if you care about metrics,
40:36
And what is happening in the real world regarding at
40:38
Microsoft, you need to follow Alex, why?
40:40
Not? Because he regularly publishes
40:43
them the amount of data that Microsoft sees in Azure from a
40:46
Leonard, every perspective is staggering and so what he can
40:50
teach you about, what's happening in the real world
40:53
respected threats at events activities that you need to be
40:56
aware of is mind-boggling and they're being very open about
40:59
it. That's the other thing that
40:59
they're giving back to the community.
41:01
So I think the investment in the technology, the investment in
41:04
standards. The investment in people, Making
41:07
identity of focus area as part of a xerocon Services.
41:10
It's that's it's because they understood the importance of
41:13
identity and invest in. If that's what's allowed them to
41:17
be, sort of go from where they were, which is yeah, they're
41:21
always. There Haiti was always there.
41:24
But this has been positioned at the center of, you know what's
41:28
going on with SAS and identity within SAS with what they're
41:32
doing with those your because when a big change, you know when
41:35
they Brought in Saudi and out Nadella you know, to head things
41:39
up. You started to see the shift and
41:41
it took them a little while to make changes to the organization
41:44
and where they wanted to be. And sometimes I think it put
41:48
organizations that a disadvantage, we're from an
41:51
axle. It's let's take access
41:52
management. For example, you know Azure ad
41:56
wasn't all that great for a couple of years because it took
41:59
them some time to get it up and running and kind of where they
42:02
wanted it to be. So if you look at, you know,
42:04
previous Gartner magic quadrant Since which are not the end, all
42:07
be all, but you know, an industry Benchmark of kind of
42:09
where things are at, you know, they were not a leader.
42:12
And for a couple years, I think they maybe even dropped off and
42:15
then bang the most recent one. Now, they're not there in the
42:19
top position, you know, part of that probably has to do with
42:21
their installed base and having such a massive footprint is
42:23
Office 365, but I give them a lot of credit for making the
42:27
pivot of the cloud and being available and being seen as more
42:30
than just, you know, Windows, right?
42:33
It's officer 65, it's Azure. It's SAS Services.
42:37
Its, you know, Max not being a second-class citizen compared to
42:41
Windows counterpart on services and things like that.
42:44
So is a perfect, no. You know, but I think they've
42:47
done a really good job of kind of pivoting into being more of a
42:51
services company, and you're starting to see apple to do that
42:54
as well, to some extent with their, you know, their iCloud
42:56
and other other features and functionality where that's
43:01
really where they're kind of pitting their businesses to be
43:03
more services and less dependent on.
43:07
You know some of the Legacy stuff like Windows it'll still
43:09
be a big thing always. But you know having services
43:13
available I think is a much a much bigger Revenue generator
43:16
for them over time. Yeah.
43:19
It's Jim earlier in the discussions, mentioned that
43:23
sometimes you need a little luck.
43:24
In the case of Microsoft, they didn't need the luck.
43:26
They were big enough and they had the base.
43:28
What they needed was to keep the faith and they kept the faith,
43:31
right? So it being continuing to
43:33
recognize the importance of identity and Keeping the Faith.
43:36
Faith that the plan was going to pan out.
43:39
Allow them to get through that rough patch and come out on the
43:41
other end stronger which is something that not all big
43:44
organizations are able to do. I can tell you that from
43:47
experience a lot of money solves, a lot of problems.
43:51
A lot of patients especially if you know you've got to support
43:59
the movement and understand there will be some short-term
44:01
some pain to get to the end. But yeah, absolutely.
44:06
Shot. You been you know really just
44:07
the timing know we're coming up kind of close to here too when I
44:10
get things wrapped up. But before we do that, you know,
44:13
it is end of 2020. Hopefully and one of the things
44:19
that I want to touch on are some of the predictions may be around
44:22
some of the things for 2021 and kind of want to go through kind
44:24
of like a rapid-fire list of things and making give me your
44:28
quick thoughts on a few different things.
44:30
How does that sound? Sure, I hate the prediction
44:33
game. Honestly, it's one of those
44:35
things where I'm like, I hope hope nobody goes that reads my
44:37
old blog post because oh man, I made some really bad predictions
44:42
in the past. So I stopped doing it every
44:45
year. Somebody would come to me and
44:46
say, hey are you writing a prediction blog post this year
44:48
and eventually somebody's like no I'm not doing that anymore.
44:52
Well don't worry. This is only going to be on the
44:53
internet forever so it's all right but just imagine if you
44:57
get it right right? How much of a prognosticator
45:02
you'll end up being the Nostradamus of I am I think is a
45:04
good title to add. Yeah.
45:06
All right, let me go through my list here.
45:08
How will covid affect the way people think?
45:10
Kate, are, we going to see less physical event ocation versus
45:15
maybe something Wireless. You know, trying to avoid
45:18
touching payment terminals, for example, using more Apple pay
45:22
and Google pay and Samsung pay things like that or other types
45:25
of Plyometrics, maybe visual, you know things like that.
45:28
How do you see covid effect in the way people have found a Kate
45:30
in 2021. So I think 2021 is going to show
45:35
and Specially in payments contactless payments obviously
45:38
your we were already down that part but this is the going to
45:41
Turbo charge it, for sure. And you're going to see the big
45:44
players really focus on that as well.
45:47
I think authentication itself we're gonna see authentication
45:52
continue the path is on right now which is an ink we are going
45:56
to have a slow but steady March towards password less which
46:02
means you numb, less number of passwords which is obviously
46:04
what we all want. Bye.
46:06
Trick is going to continue to increase.
46:07
In fact, I think there's Regional aspects to that, that
46:11
are going to play in a lot because different jurisdictions
46:15
in different geographies that different tolerances for
46:17
Biometrics. So we've already Biometrics is
46:20
already. Well, accepted in, for example,
46:23
huge parts of Asia and I think it's just going to continue to
46:27
increase and so with that, they will also be an increased focus
46:31
on the Privacy aspects of that and the implications.
46:35
So, It's going to be a really fun interesting ride next year,
46:39
because I think we're going to see a lot of activity on
46:44
physical Biometrics by her, in the sense of things like facial
46:48
recognition, facial authentication, I should say, as
46:52
opposed to facial recognition and increased focus on the
46:55
distinction between, facial recognition and facial
46:57
identification. But with masks probably being a
47:01
continued part of her life. Hopefully we'll see, you know,
47:06
Our forms of Biometrics come into the picture as well, just
47:09
because I don't think what people have done with respect to
47:13
trying to figure out how to do facial recognition while mass or
47:16
on is sustainable. So you know, let's see how that
47:20
goes. So I think Biometrics will
47:22
definitely continue to be the case, but it has to be
47:25
touchless. So I think that means that
47:27
fingerprint readers at stores. For example, that is not so
47:32
common for us in the US, for example, but is far more Common
47:36
in other parts of the world, I think fingerprint readers at
47:39
stores friends. Banks Etc are going to start to
47:42
get replaced by mobile based solutions that rely on QR codes
47:48
for NFC in order to make it contactless, right?
47:52
So we're going to see some of that happening quite a bit, so
47:54
if a sign of K to your personal device and then somehow the
47:57
device becomes the, the FED exactly at the negated exactly
48:01
mobile devices. And mobile devices are just
48:03
going to become Central to a lot of our activity.
48:06
Because the person you don't have to give them up to
48:08
somebody. So you it promotes the contact
48:10
disaster and so that leads me to a couple of follow up ahead
48:13
around. So here's what it's the only
48:16
talk. Let's talk about iPhone real
48:17
quick. Sure iPhone has gone away from
48:20
fingerprint and touch ID over the last couple years we've
48:23
turned to face ID. Now, we're wearing masks and
48:25
that doesn't work so well. The newest iPad though has a
48:30
fingerprint or touch ID built into the power button.
48:33
Here's an off-the-wall question, do you think the next iPhone is
48:35
going to Of touch ID in a similar matter.
48:39
I would love to say yes. I was actually hoping it would
48:42
be this year where they would have a fingerprint reader within
48:44
the screen or at least on the back of the phone.
48:47
Which I don't know how that would work with the fact that I
48:49
cannot survive without a case on my phone.
48:51
But yes, I do think fingerprint readers.
48:54
We will basically. Well, I don't know if 2021 is
48:57
the right time, but definitely by 2022.
49:00
I do it at this fate that iPhones will have both facial
49:03
recognition as well as Singapore readers, both and Just because
49:07
as you said it's like we need it.
49:09
There is no way to get around that.
49:11
I hope you're right too. And for the record I am a I am
49:14
violently opposed to fingerprint readers on the backs of phones
49:18
because I like to put the phone down and if I have to
49:20
authenticate and pick up the phone to then put my finger on
49:24
the back that just that's I just hate that.
49:25
I know Google. Does that not a fan of it?
49:27
Sorry Google. But at least you have the touch
49:29
ID or that you have the fingerprint authentication.
49:31
All right. What about things like web off
49:33
then and Fido to I kind of think that we're going to see a little
49:37
more adoption of it. What do you see for 2021?
49:40
Now that pretty much all the major players have adopted the
49:43
web often standard so it's fragmented I think the web
49:48
attend standard is excellent. One of the big Focus areas for
49:53
us this year eunuch and was building our fighter compliant.
49:58
Federal compliance into our solution and building and
50:01
support for web attend in it. But really, what will be the
50:05
impediment. For about 10 just taking over
50:08
because all things being equal. I think we're both kind of would
50:11
take over easily is the user experience.
50:15
I think right now, the user experience is still problematic.
50:18
When you have web attend support in mobile browsers on device,
50:25
mobile devices that have Fido built into it, like on the
50:29
Android Android devices and on ION iPhone IOS.
50:33
Those are fine. Those will work.
50:35
Great. Eight.
50:36
But the user experience for registering a yubikey or even
50:41
your Touch ID on your MacBook Pro on desktop is still very
50:47
clunky, very problematic and is a big turn-off for me for
50:53
consumers, right? So, I think that is going to be
50:57
a significant hindrance into about and really taking off the
51:01
way it needs to. I know this is an area that is
51:05
the Amount of work happening right now to try and standardize
51:09
that user experience, Because unless you stand as that user
51:12
experience, a you can work out the Kinks and make it better,
51:16
but be an Onsen experience is an invitation for attackers to
51:20
exploit it. And so that's going to be.
51:25
I think the thing that holds it back in 2021, hopefully by 2022
51:29
that hindrances gone and in 2022 without the really takes off.
51:33
But given the state where things are today, I don't I think we're
51:37
quite ready for with end. Do you know Shoot To The Moon
51:40
right now? Okay, what about Sovereign
51:42
identity and blockchain? I've been here about that for I
51:45
feel like the last couple of years.
51:46
They seem to have gone a little bit quiet more recently, where
51:50
do you see the both of those kind of related things, you
51:53
know, by the end of 2020. One, let's say next question,
51:57
next question. Okay, how about 0 f?
51:59
It is? It is too problematic.
52:02
So zero trust. When I was just getting what we
52:07
do, like it's a tongue that I quite frankly, tried not to use
52:10
because it a is so overused now and B is so fuzzy defined that
52:19
everybody was able to like you should have been at RSA
52:21
conference walking the floor and you would see more than half the
52:25
companies have zero trust in their in their banners.
52:28
So, I think as a if we step back from the marketing stuff and
52:34
actually look at what it is, is in terms of an architectural
52:38
methodology, I think zero trust is absolutely something that
52:44
every organization needs to invest in, you know, it's
52:49
basically defense in that it's about multi layered defenses
52:52
defenses. That you need to put in place
52:53
and you can't just focus on one piece.
52:57
One of the things that in, for all the years that we've been
53:00
doing authentication and strong authentication, we do not think
53:04
about the security of it. So we always assume the
53:08
security. Yeah, we're doing strong,
53:09
authentication tokens are going fine back and forth and you
53:12
Passwords usernames. Passwords are being sent over
53:15
the wire. Yeah, this TST Ellis takes care
53:18
of the security of it. Oh, I have a token stored on the
53:22
device. Yeah, that's somehow secure and
53:24
I don't have to worry about it. Unfortunately, we have worried
53:27
about it because, as we start moving to device based security
53:32
models, as you start moving to places, where two scenarios
53:36
where we now are increasingly leveraging Fido, which means you
53:40
have a private key saved on the device.
53:42
And yes, it's stored in the secure element on the device.
53:47
Attackers are going to start looking at exploits at the
53:50
device. Level to figure out how to
53:52
attack that, how to steal Keys, how to intercept Keys, how to
53:55
leverage. So you're going to see an
53:57
increase in, how malware attacks, the security of these,
54:02
these new security methodology and so unless you have a 0600
54:08
trust architecture Quarry which is I'm not you just going to
54:10
look at strong authentication but I'm actually going to look
54:12
at the entire threat model and look at all of these layers.
54:15
You're going to leave yourself just as vulnerable even in a,
54:19
you know, Fido security model to attacks that just like we've had
54:25
with passwords with passwords. Passwords are fine.
54:28
If you have a strong password and nobody can guess it.
54:30
But that doesn't mean that fishing doesn't compromise the
54:32
strongest password, right? So I think, I think the
54:37
understanding of the architectural approach is
54:39
continuing to grow and increase. And I think it's definitely here
54:42
to stay and become a core part of how organizations.
54:45
Ian's think about their security architectures.
54:49
Alright, my last one is around defects.
54:53
When do you think we'll see deep fakes?
54:57
Really presenting authentication and fraud challenges for folks
55:04
in the industry, let's say, kind of, let's get a little bit
55:06
broad, you know, I think right now.
55:09
It's still a little bit difficult to pull off a
55:12
convincing, deep fake, whether it's audio or video, Video.
55:15
But the tools are getting better all the time.
55:18
Yep. And how do you see?
55:20
Deep fakes affecting authentication.
55:22
And I am in general in 2021 so while they fix continue to
55:26
evolve and get better and better, so does the capability
55:31
from the biometric vendors, right?
55:33
So it's, it's, it is to some extent, a race.
55:38
It is an is an arm's battle, but What makes biometric then this
55:44
goes back to what we were discussing earlier about you
55:46
know myths about Biometrics. What makes Biometrics good from
55:49
a security standpoint is that biometric is instantly about
55:52
looking at a face and matching a patent and identifying who the
55:56
person is you also have other aspects to Biometrics that make
56:00
it good. From a security technology
56:02
perspective. Specifically things like
56:04
liveness detection, you have to have lightness detection in
56:07
order for Biometrics to work securely and liveness detection
56:13
will in from a technology perspective continue to evolve
56:17
just like defect Technologies continue to evolve.
56:19
And I anticipate that the liveness detection technology
56:24
will continue to keep Pace with our defect technology is
56:27
evolving. Such that defect technology will
56:30
not necessarily be able to convince a well-defined a
56:36
well-designed biometric system with proper liveness detection
56:39
in it. To get tricked right now.
56:44
That goes back to you have to deploy Biometrics properly.
56:47
If you, if you're doing something where you're
56:49
incorporating biometric technology Into Your solution,
56:52
you need to make sure that your biometric technology has good
56:55
line inspection. What is its presentation attack
56:57
detection capability? What is the levels of
57:00
certification? Is it has achieved and things
57:02
like that. So as organizations deploying
57:06
biometrics, And as device vendors like Apple and Google
57:11
that are important parameters in the technology liveness
57:15
detection, is a critical part that they have to stay on top of
57:17
and convey love. And I think it will happen that
57:19
will continue to evolve. Those are all aware of this and
57:22
the underlying componentry weather is machine learning.
57:24
Whether this, the sensors and the quality of the cameras on
57:27
the devices. And now with the new iPhone, you
57:30
have not just, you know, white light, but you have lighter.
57:33
All of those will start to get incorporated into the biometric.
57:37
Geez that enable you to do better liveness detection.
57:40
Such that I think at least for 2020 if you're going back to the
57:44
predictions model it will stay a step ahead of the thick
57:46
technology consignee thing about defect technology continued to
57:50
promote this information and misinformation across the world
57:53
but at least from an authentication system
57:54
standpoint. I don't think is 20/20 level
57:57
threat. I feel like I agree with
57:59
everything you just said, I think where I'm most concerned
58:01
about defects is when it comes to misinformation, which we've
58:05
already seen but Social engineering when it comes to,
58:10
you know, my favorite thing to do is turn on the potato filter
58:12
on the camera and, you know, be the potato what, you know, at
58:15
some point there's going to be a filter that's going to be easy
58:18
enough to edit where I can appear as anybody.
58:21
A one up here is and I can make a zoom call or whoever it may be
58:25
and fake a bad connection write and tell someone to do something
58:29
that they probably shouldn't be doing.
58:31
I feel like that's probably the quickest attack route when it
58:34
comes to deep fakes, but that's just the way that I'm thinking
58:36
about it right now. I To use it for the memes.
58:40
Exactly. Exactly that.
58:42
And let's hope it stays there. That's exactly where we want to
58:45
keep it bottled up. All right, well, I know we've
58:48
gone pretty long today but really appreciate the time.
58:51
Before we get things wrapped up in a shot, is there anything
58:54
that you'd like to throw out there as any words of wisdoms or
58:57
maybe other final predictions? For what you think 2021 might
59:00
bring upon us. Just as you as anybody's in
59:05
identity, like I said, there's so many Aspects to it.
59:08
Figure out the aspect that will help you and your organization
59:11
or your project get better, right?
59:13
If it means you as an individual, and as your teams
59:16
joining Ida Pro, absolutely join Ida Pro.
59:19
There's a wealth of information and there's about this amazing
59:22
discussions happening, join women and identity.
59:27
Even if you're a man even if you're, you know, not in the
59:31
u.s. it's a global organization, diversity doesn't mean women
59:34
even into women is in the title. It's about diversity Joy.
59:37
That and learn how to make create a more diverse team and
59:41
inclusive team and keep an eye on things that are happening on
59:45
the regulatory front, there's going to be a lot of stuff
59:47
happening on the Privacy front. That's going to be happening
59:51
from a regulatory perspective. That is going to really
59:53
significantly impact a lot of the work that we do and that's
59:58
getting really ratcheted up. So that that actually is one of
1:00:02
the predictions of 2021 2021 is we're going to see a whole bunch
1:00:07
of privacy. Patients come out that I'm going
1:00:09
to significantly impact the work that we're doing.
1:00:11
Yeah. I think it's a really good
1:00:12
point. You bring up the globe at the
1:00:13
globe ality if that's a word of my day and access management and
1:00:18
you know, the different organizations.
1:00:20
You know, this show for example is has a pretty good following
1:00:23
internationally. We've seen a lot of growth
1:00:25
actually in the London area, which is fantastic.
1:00:28
And I'm a little bit this point, because I'm supposed to be in
1:00:30
London earlier this year to watch the Cubs and Cardinals,
1:00:33
and obviously, that didn't happen.
1:00:34
So I'm looking forward to my trip.
1:00:37
Our next time, but all these organizations, you know, are at
1:00:42
least the ones that I am aware of things like Ida Pro, would
1:00:43
love to have more International representation and, you know,
1:00:47
it's a good time to join any of these organizations that you
1:00:50
think that might be helpful either for yourself in your
1:00:52
career or, you know, just you're interested in Jim.
1:00:57
Any last thoughts from yourself? Yeah, I've encouraged everybody
1:01:01
to get out there and, and watch the shots.
1:01:05
I didn't reverse talk, he's a fantastic.
1:01:07
Presenter, I think, you know, just learning to present, he
1:01:12
doesn't such a cool style. So see we can take away from
1:01:15
that. May be incorporated, some of
1:01:17
that into your own talks, I think, you know, presenting a
1:01:21
such an important part of kind of growing your career, whether
1:01:24
your and identity management or anything else.
1:01:27
And then the other thing is just building your network.
1:01:30
So I know, Jeff and I are heavy users of LinkedIn.
1:01:34
Please feel free to send Send us a connection.
1:01:38
Get linked in with us there. Sean.
1:01:40
How can folks follow you or connect with you from the social
1:01:45
perspective? My most active social media.
1:01:49
Presence is Twitter. I you know put it isn't what it
1:01:53
used to be but I still leverage it quite a bit and there's still
1:01:56
a lot of fuss identity folks. Who are there?
1:01:59
Having really fun? Interesting conversation.
1:02:01
If you join Ida Pro, then you pull slack.
1:02:04
Channel is a fun place to talk as well.
1:02:07
There's plenty of means that as well.
1:02:09
So it's a fun place to have really interesting discussion
1:02:13
and identity. But yeah, Twitter on LinkedIn,
1:02:17
you know, and as well, but not as active there.
1:02:21
Yeah, that's it. That's about it.
1:02:23
And I'll have links to to you on LinkedIn or I'll put your
1:02:26
Twitter handle as well in the show notes, your your
1:02:29
identifiers chat. We're gonna have a whole bunch
1:02:31
of links in the show notes for this one.
1:02:33
So right, and as a whole bunch of stuff on my on my website as
1:02:37
well in the Takashi got calmer and you go to my blog.
1:02:41
My talking identity.com blog, there's a bunch of stuff,
1:02:44
they're all my previous talks out there as well.
1:02:46
There's gonna be a lot of a lot of follow-up things for people
1:02:49
to check out. Absolutely, absolutely.
1:02:52
All right. Well, I think that's a pretty
1:02:53
good spot to leave it for for this episode.
1:02:56
Appreciate everyone listening to us.
1:03:00
You can always visit our show at identity at the center.com.
1:03:03
You can follow us on Twitter at idac podcast.
1:03:07
Like I mentioned, will have links to a whole bunch of stuff
1:03:09
for this in the show notes. So feel free to check those out
1:03:12
and wherever you're reading or listening to the podcast here,
1:03:15
you'll find them there and with that we'll go ahead and close it
1:03:18
out for this week. Thanks for listening, and we'll
1:03:20
talk with you all in the next one.
1:03:25
You've been listening to the identity at the center podcast,
1:03:28
if you like what you heard, don't forget to subscribe and
1:03:31
visit us on the web at identity at the center.com.
1:03:25
You've been listening to the identity at the center podcast,
1:03:28
if you like what you heard, don't forget to subscribe and
1:03:31
visit us on the web at identity at the center.com.