Latest / Brands, Beats & Bytes / REMIX: Album 7 Track 5 - Embracing Change, Curiosity, & Courage with/Wendy Martin

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REMIX: Album 7 Track 5 - Embracing Change, Curiosity, & Courage with/Wendy Martin · Brands, Beats & Bytes

• [00:00:00] DC: Brand Nerds back at you with another podcast of Brands, Beats and Bytes. And we kind of have a classic story today, LT, with the guests that we have. [00:00:11] LT: We do. I love this. Don't you? [00:00:13] DC: Yeah, I do too. It's a story where, in our generation, Larry, we've heard these stories before. And, um, we understand them. I don't know how much in current day, but Brand Nerds There used to be this saying in the entertainment and media business that some executive that you meet that's really high up like c suite executive started in the mail room Larry they started in the mail and we all knew what that meant it's like they have earned it they have taken every step from the mail room to get up to the c suite and usually LT, these were the best executives because they knew all facets of the enterprise, all facets. [00:01:00] LT: And there hasn't been a mailroom in like 20 years now, I think. [00:01:03] DC: But you know, there has not been a mailroom. There has not. So dating ourselves, LT, dating ourselves. But the work ethic associated with that, that is timeless. [00:01:14] LT: Right. [00:01:15] DC: Uh, Brand Nerds, uh, so that's the first thing, Brand Nerds, is to think about what it takes to rise up from a mail room or any starting assistant position. That's number one. Number two is, uh, Brand Nerds, marketers are often accused as being more infatuated with the branding of it all and not the business of it all this. This is what some marketers are accused of like they're really good at some of the brand metrics, but someone in sales would say, what, what have you done to move the business? Today, LT, we have someone who has spent her entire career delivering the numbers, right? I don't care what you do. If you deliver the numbers in your career, Yeah. You almost become impervious to some of these criticisms about just branding. And then thirdly on this one, LT, is that sadly, sadly, I've learned that our guest today recently is not a cat person. I've sadly learned this, LT. I've sadly learned this. So, LT, can you tell us who we have in the building today? [00:02:25] LT: Yes, that's funny. DC, we have Wendy Martin in the house today. Welcome, Wendy. [00:02:30] Wendy Martin: Why, thank you. That was a wonderful introduction. [00:02:33] LT: Well, we're not done yet, Wendy, right? We're just not done yet. [00:02:36] DC: LT's got the real one. [00:02:37] LT: Yeah, we're not done yet. So okay, Brand Nerds in Wendy, we have someone in the building who is a super accomplished marketing leader in DC was alluding to this, who started on the ground floor and has worked her butt off to achieve great success as a marketer and a business person. So let's walk you through Wendy's path to success. So Wendy grows up in a rural community named Advance, North Carolina. Did I pronounce that right, Wendy? [00:03:05] Wendy Martin: You did, you did. [00:03:07] LT: All right. That's, uh, that shows my, uh, UNC, uh, roots too. And she does not stray too far attending Wake Forest University, where in just three years, yes, three years, she earns her B. A. in communications. Wendy's first job, and this is what DC was alluding to, is with a media agency named Western Media. Who, uh, eventually is initiative media, but at Western Media, she starts as an assistant media buyer. So that is the low rung of the totem pole, Brand Nerds. And dare I say, Wendy, I am betting when you started, you are barely making five figures at that time, but we don't need you to confirm that or not. But when it gets a big break, when the agency [00:03:50] DC: Oh, no, Larry. I think she just said something. What'd you say? [00:03:53] Wendy Martin: I can confirm that. Yes. Uh, yes, it was, uh, the salary was, uh, not enough to live on. Let's put it that way. [00:04:01] LT: Yes. Yes. Listen, and Brand Nerds is key. Lots of times. And I mentor a lot of people. I'm doing a quick tangent. People lament when they're just going to ask, Oh man, I can't afford. You got to start somewhere and starting somewhere sometimes is means that you got to, you know, work another job or whatever. To make ends meet, but that's the, that's the kind of things that you have to do sometimes, but this is a perfect segue. So listen to this, what, what happens with Wendy. So she's in that job and doing very well. And this is where the confluence of luck also happens. Uh, Western media, uh, gets, uh, there's, they get the Brand Nerds, this is when Home Depot was just a burgeoning, you know, retailer and Wendy gets a big, big break to work on that account. And she obviously impresses because soon after she is offered a position at the, in the client side. Her first position is manager of broadcast at Home Depot. And at Home Depot she flourishes. She quickly moves up to, uh, eventually manage media, creative, and branding. And about every two years she has the opportunity to grow, evolve, and take on new responsibilities. From head of marketing at the subsidiary Expo Design Centers. to being Six Sigma Black Belt trained to starting CRM, which is really cool. Wendy's last role in her 12 years at Home Depot is Senior Advertising Manager. And in her tenure, again, this is what DC was alluding to, Brand Nerds the business grows from 2 billion to 80 billion with more than 2, 000 stores. Now, we're not claiming Wendy's the sole reason for that. Obviously, it's a huge company. But she's obviously there at a, at a point in time when they're growing and she's an important part of that growth. So after this great success at Home Depot, Wendy looks to spread her wings and joins Express, where she becomes the VP of Marketing. For those not familiar, Express is a fashion retailer, mostly mall based. Focusing on fast fashion with seasonal floor changes and when Wendy joins them, they are in turnaround mode They're consolidating men's and women's business and a very promotion offer driven. As far as retail goes, Express and Home Depot cannot be more different in terms of the target consumer, brand lover, and merchandising experiences, but Brand Nerds, this is how you really grow. At Express, one of Wendy's first tasks is to create better internal relationships with marketing, creative, merchandising, and design. Through Wendy's leadership, these teams come together and they are able to reestablish the Express brand and product to be in harmony with one another, leading to reconnecting the brand with its core consumer, which ultimately drives a successful IPO. So, again, Wendy's kicking it at Express, really seeing the business results as DC was alluding to. So, after this successful IPO, a mentor of Wendy's reaches out about this, uh, 250 million dollar ish 25 store chain that has a great mousetrap, but really needs the underpinning of a scalable and effective brand and marketing program. The name of this retailer is Floor & Decor, and starting in 2011, Wendy becomes their CMO. Under Wendy's marketing leadership, the company has a successful IPO in 2017, and in her 13 plus years, the brand becomes a 250 store chain, so 10x, with sales of more than 4. 2 billion, and is now a national trusted brand for high quality products and inspiration. Lastly, and most importantly, Wendy is the wife of her college sweetheart husband, Rick, and a mom of three. Oldest, Olivia, is a Georgetown grad. Middle daughter, Reese, is a sophomore at UCLA. And youngest, Tucker, is graduating high school in May and will be leaving the nest for college this fall. But she still has her three dogs now. Welcome to Brands, Beats, and Bytes. Wendy Martin. [00:08:06] Wendy Martin: Now I, now I'm blushing Larry . Um, but, um, but yes, that, that's my career. Um, when you, when you play it back to me, it kind of makes me smile. Um, it's been a, it's been a fun ride for sure. [00:08:19] LT: It should make you smile. [00:08:21] DC: Yeah, it, it's lovely, Wendy, to watch the faces of our, our guest on Brands, Beats and Bytes, when Larry goes over their, uh, their careers, it, what I liken it to, I'm not wanting to be morbid here, but I will be for a moment, is typically things like this happen when we're having an obit. Like someone, they start to talk about all these wonderful things that the person has done. Some of them, in some cases, Wendy fabricated for the moment, but, but, but in this case, you get your flowers while you are here and vibrant. And it's just lovely to see the responses of people. Just very cool. Cause oftentimes it's as if the person who is having the, Uh, the bio read to them, they look like, is that me? They kind of look, is that, did I do all of that? Yes. Wendy, you did all of this. [00:09:19] Wendy Martin: It sounds kind of cool. [00:09:20] DC: Yeah, it sounds kind of cool. You did all of this. All right, Wendy, we are going to, uh, the section that we call Get Comfy. [00:09:26] Wendy Martin: Sure. [00:09:27] DC: And I used up front the analog of the mail room and we know there are no more, uh, mail rooms. That said, there are lots of Brand Nerds listening, Wendy, who are early in their careers. Dare I say. As early as maybe their first roll out of school. And I can imagine if, if, uh, I take myself back to that time, Wendy, we can all do this. You go from a university campus where you've spent, in your case, three years, in my case, significantly more than three years. You, you get, you get to know the people, the instructors, you know, the students, you kind of know the cheat codes, if you will, to get around. Then when you go into the business world, it's like a whole new deal. What was going through your mind as this assistant media buyer, thinking about the career you wanted to have, but sitting in the virtual mail room? What was happening in your head, Wendy? [00:10:29] Wendy Martin: Sure, good question. So, so DC, it's, it's interesting when I think back to those times, and it's, you know, it's, it's been a minute ago, but, um, I think there was a bit of wonder, um, and less fear and more, what can it be? Um, what, what can next? You know, I wasn't on a pre med path to, you know, to go down a specific, uh, specific direction. It was, it was a bit, um, ziggity zaggity, right? Um, and there wasn't a clear path there. Um, but I definitely always saw, um, every opportunity to learn. So I'll say this to, to, to the folks listening out there. Take every opportunity. If you're invited into a discussion, go, listen. Um, take confidence in yourself that you know that that you can take something away from that to apply to tomorrow to next week, five years down the road, whatever it may be. So I think I was just really open minded. Um, and maybe, uh, maybe a little fearless, um, uh, of what next could look like. And that was I think my next step. We'll call it for my superpower then. Um, and it allowed for me, I think, to step into some spaces that maybe I wouldn't have been invited into otherwise, um, because I was a little bit more confident. Does that make sense? [00:11:42] DC: It does. It does completely. LT, any thoughts on this notion of, uh, of being fearless? You good? [00:11:51] LT: You go ahead. [00:11:52] DC: Okay. All right. So you go to a company, Wendy, one can be fearless, but it can also be intimidating. Things can happen to shake this confidence that you, that you, uh, you had if at any time your confidence was shaken early in your career, if it was, I'm not suggesting it was, but if it was. What did you do to get it back? [00:12:19] Wendy Martin: Yeah, sure it was. So, um, so, you know, jumping over into that Home Depot role. It was a, it was a pretty big job. Um, and one that I hadn't necessarily had, you know, exactly the resume of experience to do. So a lot of it was uncharted. So I would say looking back on those days I turned and I asked her, I asked questions I talked to people I asked advice. You know, some people I think don't want to be vulnerable. Um, um, but I asked advice so we were managing agencies, The Richards Group outta Dallas. Um, you know, back to a managing western media on the media side, I would call them up and I would say, y'all we're in a, we, we've got a quandary. I've got this challenge, I've got this opportunity. [00:12:56] DC: Mm-hmm . [00:12:56] Wendy Martin: I'm not sure what to do. What would you do? Give me some advice. Help me through this. Um, and um, and I think I've built some of my strongest relationships. by being a little bit, um, a little bit inquisitive and a little bit vulnerable. So, so yeah, so fearlessness, um, is, is almost letting go of should I ask, or can I ask, or am I supposed to have all the answers? Um, and the truth was I was a, I was a young executive. I was growing and learning. So, so I think that's how I migrated through those. Those hurdles and those, those roadblocks was raising my hand, asking for help, talking to people, um, uh, listening, um, and then, and then be a pretty good problem solver. Um, I think I'm pretty good at, at pulling together ideas and saying, well, let's try this. Um, and solutions out there and learn that pretty early on in my career as well. [00:13:50] LT: That's great stuff. [00:13:51] DC: That is, that is great stuff. Wow. Um, confidence on one end vulnerability on the other end. And how those two things go together. That's fantastic. Wendy, thank you. All right, Larry, if you don't have anything more, we will get into five questions. [00:14:10] LT: I just have one thing I neglected to say. Our wonderful friend Tim Spengler. This is another intro from Tim to, uh, to the, to the show. So I want to throw that in as well. [00:14:23] Wendy Martin: Tim was probably one of those people I would call and be like, help me. Like, what do we need to do here? Give me some advice. Um, so. [00:14:30] LT: And he's not shy. [00:14:31] Wendy Martin: Uh, yeah, well, yeah, no, not back then either. Not back then either. [00:14:35] DC: You know, no, no, I cannot imagine a version of a shy Tim Spangler, even at like a week in the in the world. Okay, I could see him. I could see him demanding something, even as a one week old, but [00:14:51] Wendy Martin: can you imagine how much he and I could get done in 30 minutes with as fast as I talk and as fast as he talks and we could get some stuff done. Y'all. [00:15:00] DC: Oh, yes. [00:15:01] LT: And, and, and I know you guys did back at the Home Depot days. [00:15:04] Wendy Martin: Yeah. We had, we had some, some wonderful, some wonderful opportunities to work together there for sure. [00:15:11] DC: Yeah, we love you, Spangler. Thanks for looking out for the show. Yes. All right, so five questions. Thank you, Larry, for bringing that up. Wendy, I will ask a question. Larry will ask a question. We'll go back and forth until we have arrived at five, and I am going to begin this thing. What was the first branding experience that you can recall where when you were into this brand, you thought you were engaging with the brand for maybe 15 minutes and oh, you're in it. You're in it for like an hour and a half. It passed so much It it just electrified you something about this brand just did something to your soul. Almost like a first love. What was this brand or brand experience for you? [00:15:57] Wendy Martin: So I've got two for you. Um, uh, I hope that's okay. Um, first one. Um, uh, so I was probably in middle school. So, you know, we talked to a very, uh, in his introduction talks about I grew up in rural North Carolina. So I was in middle school. I was babysitting, make a little extra money, for a teacher. Um, and I would remember after I'd get done, you know, they would go out to dinner, come back. Um, you know, I was too young to drive. So the husband would drive me home, um, in his Porsche 911, uh, get in that car. And I would think someday some... like this for me. I'm it's a true aspiration. Um, someday I want, um, I want to be, um, a person who can, can, you know, have, have this car. Um, and you know, it wasn't something that was in this small town. There weren't tons of Porsches running around. Like it was, you know, an unknown situation, not like you're driving, you know, in LA or Atlanta or, you know, in those kinds of things. So it was, it was a special, a special car in a special space. So, um, so just, you know, for years and years, fast forward. Um, you know, I, uh, had left Home Depot, uh, moved over to Express, um, had two young daughters and was, um, had just had my third, my son. Uh, so I had, you know, little ones running around, no, for a convertible. We got car seats galore. [00:17:16] LT: Not the time for a 911. [00:17:18] Wendy Martin: Yeah, when I'm living in Columbus, Ohio, where there's ice and snow. [00:17:21] DC: Oh, Columbus, Ohio. Yep. Yep. [00:17:22] Wendy Martin: You're not putting your top down a lot, um, maybe two, two months out of the year. And my husband, you, you kind of pointed this out earlier, who we had been together for, you know, for a long time, and we're coming up on our 33rd wedding anniversary. But, um, at this point he said to me, he said, Wendy, you have worked your butt off. You have wanted this so long. Let's get you one. Like, uh, and he's like, yeah, now. So we got this fun sports car at a car. People would literally laugh at me. Um, cause you had this car seat in the back of this, you know, this convertible. Um, but you know, it was, it was a starting point. It was kind of a beginning and an end. Point for me in terms of that you work hard for certain things. You work hard to, you know, to do right for your family to do, right for your associates and your business and your company. But my husband in that moment said, do right for yourself. You, you wanted this. [00:18:10] LT: That's awesome. [00:18:10] Wendy Martin: And uh, so I think that it's, when you talk DC about something that's. Stuck with me as a brand and a, and, and what it, you know, it kind of looked at for success for me, getting that very first one. So fast forward now, um, I've had, that's what I've driven, you know, I've, I've had a, a Porsche 911 convertible since that moment. Um, and my son's like, come on, come on. That's so boring. Same car. I'm like, mm-hmm. No, this is mama's car, [00:18:36] LT: That's not boring. That Brand Nerds to drive that car, sorry. [00:18:40] Wendy Martin: Yeah, right, right. Um, but anyway, so, so at the end of the day, it just was, it was that moment and it was defined so clearly in my mind as something to work hard for. Uh, and then, you know, kind of was, uh, you know, many, many moons later, uh, pay off, even though it wasn't practical. Um, it was, uh, it was a defining moment and I think from a brand perspective. Absolutely really was really aspirational. So that's that's kind of a loftier example. Um, I'll also kind of, um, you know, lean back in on the business side of the career side, you know, Home Depot gave me, um, gave me so many, um, early starts to, um, to who I am today. Um, that that brand, I mean, you're never going to see a Lowe's, you know, uh, bag my driveway picking up, you know, from picking up the yard pieces like there's not going to be, uh, you know, we're only going to see Home Depot stuff in my life because that brand from day one, um, as I built it and worked within that organization gave back to me so much, uh, and I think it's it's such a wonderful, renowned, world class, uh, company that, um, that, that brand from a career perspective will always be part of my life, um, uh, and is a part of my life because, you know, got to, got to change out light bulbs, got to, uh, you know, paint the walls. Um, I bought my floor, from Floor & Decor. But, uh, I am brand loyal, but, um, but, you know, that Home Depot experience, you, you can't buy it today, like, you can't get those experiences that I had today, um, or rarely, uh, can find those, and that, that's meaningful for, for where I am in my world, in my world as well. [00:20:17] LT: DC, have any thoughts to that? I have a quick follow up. [00:20:20] DC: Please do your thought, and then I've got a question, and then I'll, uh, I'll, I'll kick it to you for the next question. [00:20:25] LT: So, yes, so Brand Nerds, what's cool about everything that Wendy said, the, the Porsche thing is, that, that's, You know, awesome. And that's, that's something that, uh, when you think about a brand that, you know, Porsche isn't going after middle school kids, right? But, but there's something about that, and by the way, Wendy, we've had a couple other people mention Porsche as well, which is really cool. Um, but, but, you know, it just shows as a brand custodian, you're always making an impression on people while they might not you may not feel like they're in in your target audience today They may soon be. So that's just one quick point. Mm-hmm . The other one, Brand Nerds is that, uh, DC and I talk about this a lot, every brand you ever work on as a marketing person is always your brand. You always think of it that way. Yeah, that's great. And so I, when I go to the grocery store, I always check on my brands. I have a number of brands that I, and when I, and so I love where Wendy is going and, and so many people on the show have talked about that. To be successful as a marketer, you've got to think that way. So I just wanted to point that out. And clearly Wendy does. D your, your, uh, your question. [00:21:41] DC: Two great things to point out. So, so branders before I go, go over to Larry, the Porsche that Wendy was riding in as she was babysitting that car, depending on the condition that is in might be worth more. [00:21:58] Wendy Martin: Yes. Yeah. 100 percent sure that that is absolutely a true statement. [00:22:01] DC: Yes. Yes. Yes. It is. All right, Larry. Next question. [00:22:05] LT: Yes. So, Wendy, who has had or is having the most influence on your career? [00:22:10] Wendy Martin: Wow. Um, each of my career moves, Larry, I think there's been a person who put their arm around me, um, not literally figuratively, um, but put their arm around me in a moment and those moments are clearly crystallized in my brain. Um, so it's less a person and I think it's the person at the time in that moment, um, that means a lot. So the, you know, the leader who said, you know, back to where I started in the mail room, you know, Home Depot is hiring. I think you could do this. You should interview, um, to the person at Home Depot who happens to be Dick Sullivan, who's You know, who's, who's been a mentor of mine for, for, for a long part of my career. Um, but Dick gave me those opportunities. He didn't come in and say, all right, I need you to do these three things. He said, this is what we need to get accomplished. I need you to get it done and gave me the, the room to do that. And, and, um, and, uh, trusted me in that space to, um, someone at, you know, in my, in my limited brands Express days, um, who said, Hey, I need you to push us harder. Um, you know, we are product is where it needs to be. But we are not. We don't know our customer. Well, um, just that those moments, those defining moments. So sometimes it's who the person is Larry. But I think often it's it's when you're in that moment. Are you doing that for somebody that I've taken in my own leadership and said, this person needs this in the moment, what can I do for them? Um, and then certainly, you know, at Floor & Decor, Lisa Lobby, who I was, you know, was the chief merchant and, and president of Floor & Decor for, for, you know, for a long period of time. My leader for over 10 years. Um, just the opportunity there and what she and I built together, um, you know, it kind of goes unprecedented to be able to, to do that and, and have that kind of growth in a business. So, um, but yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's the people, Larry, but I think it's also those moments. Mm-hmm . Um, when in those traction moments, I think that are the most crystallized in my mind in terms of who made the biggest difference for me. [00:24:20] LT: Did you know it in those moments, in those key moments that you recog, that you just. [00:24:25] Wendy Martin: I think as I matured in my career, I would say, absolutely. I recognize that I would say, probably as a younger person, not as much, right? So I probably was more relieved or back at tapping back into that confidence or even on the go more. I mean, I'm kind of, you can talk fast. I move fast. I probably was like, awesome. Thanks. Let's go. Um, but, um, but I definitely in retrospect, you know, they're pretty crystallized in retrospect, but I think as I matured in my career, certainly recognize this is a moment we need to relish it and this is a moment that, that, that, that we're making a difference or my career has grown in or, you know, someone has done something for me that I know will make a difference 5, 10, you know, 15 years down the road. [00:25:11] LT: DC, you have thoughts and before you go to question 3? [00:25:15] DC: I do. Thank you, Larry. On the first question about the branding experience, you mentioned the 9 11 as, as one of them, and then you shared the story about how your husband said, Hey! You've worked hard, wifey. Now's the time. And you're like, now? He's like, yeah, now. What, what, what's your husband's name? [00:25:36] Wendy Martin: My husband's name is Rick. [00:25:38] DC: Rick. Okay. Got it. Rick. Okay. So now I want to go back to this question that, uh, Larry just asked where you answered and you talked about. The moment. These are, this is like someone, you know, figuratively put their arm around you, Wendy, and said, Hey, like you can do this. Like you need to, you can interview or, Hey, I need you to get this done. Like it's the case of a Dick Sullivan. And you're the kind of person that you've admitted that you're like, Hey, all right, good. Let's go. Let's go. But after you were told this, after someone figuratively put their arm around you and said, hey, I think you can do this. And typically it sounds like it was something bigger than what you were doing at the time or more than what you were doing at the time. What did you go say to Rick? [00:26:23] LT: Great question, D. [00:26:25] Wendy Martin: Um, can I do this, really? Um, I guess so. So Rick and I, as we had our first, actually today is my, um, my oldest birthday. Um, and, um, so as we decided to have her, um, didn't know it was a her at the time, uh, he became a stay at home parent. So he, he, we've had a little bit of a role reversal on that. So he was a stay at home parent. we had Olivia. Um, so he has definitely run the household, been very very engaged in everything, bu confidant when I walk in But those early days before we had Olivia, um, when he was in the workplace, I was in the workplace. I think he recognized that my, um, my career trajectory, I was in a special place. And people use that word special a lot, but it, it was special. We knew it. Um, he knew it. I knew it. We saw the opportunity. Um, so I said [00:27:21] LT: Was this at Home Depot, Wendy? [00:27:23] Wendy Martin: Oh, yeah. Um, so I think he would mostly DC to answer your question. He would mostly just just listen. um, and often say, Don't take it so seriously. Relax, take a deep breath. Um, you know, it's going to be good. Um, and, and we just sort of powered through, but, um, but yeah, no, very good question. He often was the person that I was banging my head against the wall and he's like, let me put a pillow so you don't bang your head quite so hard. [00:27:53] DC: Oh, that's nice. Ah, all right. Uh, Larry, any more before we go to question three? All right, cool. This is fun. Wendy, when Larry went over your background and I did a little bit of a, uh, uh, I would call it a mini soliloquy up top results were a part of the, uh, the theme of my setup, as well as Larry going through your background. Uh, uh, my sister, you develop, you, you deliver results consistently. If you don't do anything else, you deliver the results. So when you're delivering results, you're winning. And this question went Wendy has nothing to do with your winning. Nothing at all. Nothing at all. We want you to talk with the Brand Nerds about your biggest F up. And I am saying F up. I'm going to digress for a moment. Uh, this Friday, I'm going to be keynoting. Um, a business conference, business school conference at Georgia Tech here in Atlanta, Larry's coming to town. He's going to sit on a panel also at the same business conference. And the person who invited us, his name is Tim Halloran. He worked at Coca Cola with us, said the Larry, you got to make DC promise. He doesn't say the F word. So I'm just saying F up here. We need to know your biggest F up. And most importantly, what you learned from it. [00:29:18] Wendy Martin: Okay. Um, the one, I mean, we all make mistakes and modify and learn and grow, but the one thing that sticks out in my mind in that moment where that the F up was truly like, probably the word that was definitely the word that was used. Um, so back in those depot days, um, again, high growth, we were, we were evolving, uh, growing into Chicago and. Seattle and Canada and high growth, high growth, open a store every, you know, I don't know, a couple of days. Um, and we had, I had, you know, taken responsibility to convince the business. It was time to go from local media buying to national media buying. And if you guys have been a part of organizations that should, for some reason, companies really struggle with that because it seems to be. When you use a [00:30:01] LT: clip, though, when you write, there's a clip that you hit that it just really inefficient. If you don't do that, [00:30:08] Wendy Martin: you just add all the markets cost together. And if it's more than national, then it's kind of gravy for if you're not in the West Virginia at or what have you. [00:30:14] DC: But this is such a great area. [00:30:16] Wendy Martin: Yeah, but, um, so, so I personally, you know, taking on the responsibility to say it's time for us to make this shift. Um, and, um, Everyone thinks I don't know why everyone is every organization. I've been like, Oh, we shouldn't be there yet. But we are there. We need to be there. It's efficient, etc. It just seems like national seems so big. But anyway, so it's my first national ad. And this will date it a little bit. It was a Thursday night lineup, you know, friends er Thursday night when you said have your relationship TV and be watching the TV. I knew what pod I was in. Tim Spangler was on here to be talking about the importance of what pod you're in and where you are. [00:30:52] LT: Yes. [00:30:54] Wendy Martin: Um, sitting there with Rick, you know, uh, and we're watching and the ad comes on and it's announcing our Minneapolis grand opening. [00:31:01] DC: Oh, it's a national, it's a national, oh my. [00:31:07] Wendy Martin: So it's a national ad that I've now told all these executives and we, um, mistrafficked a Minneapolis grand opening ad, um, that ran. Because I was sitting in Georgia, uh, you know, in Atlanta. So in that moment, I know I went, white as a sheet? Um, and I'm like, that's, and Rick goes, ah, he didn't know the difference. Whatever. He's like, when are you really going to know the difference? I'm like, I know the difference. Um, it's a mistake. [00:31:34] LT: Um, trust me, other people will too. [00:31:37] DC: Oh, yes. [00:31:38] Wendy Martin: Oh, yeah. Well, the business certainly did. Um, uh, but you know, the average Joe probably didn't, they weren't thinking, it'd be a little bit weird, but you know, no one's going, Oh, somebody really messed that up. So did I traffic it wrong? Me personally? No. But I think the thing that to kind of come across here is how did I, how was I accountable for that after it occurred? Right. So I made the decisions. I was in the role. I had the, you know, I had the responsibility. Um, I wasn't the person sitting in the media agency who trafficked the wrong creative. I wasn't. Um, but, but the important part, I think for the listeners to think about is none of us does any of this by ourselves in marketing, really. Um, there's always somebody connected to you and somebody you're reliant on or interrelated with, whether it's somebody on your team and agency. Um, you know, a store execution, whatever it is, and the important part of this was I took responsibility for it. You know, the next day we were on calls, and I wasn't, I guess I was upset, but the real thing was, how do we keep it from happening again? [00:32:40] LT: Right. [00:32:41] Wendy Martin: How do we keep it from happening again? Because, um, it's not acceptable to begin with, but certainly we can't make the mistake ever again. Um, and not as in a high profile space, you know, had to be the first one, you know, all that jazz. So, um, so that, you know, that really was a, you know, was a, was a pivotal moment. To try to figure out how do you shore up, you know, weaknesses and opportunities for error. Um, especially when you're dealing with a small team internally and a, you know, an agency partner externally. Um, but yeah, that one, man, that sticks in my brain as one of those really big F up moments. [00:33:15] LT: Oh, this is a good one, D. [00:33:17] DC: Go ahead, Larry. This is a really good one. [00:33:19] LT: This is a really good one. So, the key here, like Wendy already said, and I just want to reiterate, is that we all fuck up, Brand Nerds. We all do. We all the time. And it's to say the my bad, but not just say my bad and just say my bad. It's to say my bad, and now what are we going to do to make sure this never happens again? What processes do we have in place to what's going to happen to ensure that this doesn't happen again? I have a quick anecdote. Um, the second year on Powerade, we had, um, our ads were very, they were very different. They used a black screen and we used our, the creative was very much audio centric, even though it was visual. And the first time the ad aired, sort of like you, It was to the volume. Most ads Brand Nerds. This is one of the things that people don't know most most of the time the agencies turn up the volume where you go. Damn, that's too loud. Yeah. And this is a time where we really needed the volume turned up and I could barely hear it. And it's like, this is reliant upon volume. It's like one of those things you would never expect, just like Wendy wouldn't expect that this wouldn't get trafficked, right? And that was like, same thing, like, oh, my God. Yeah. But it's really to make sure that you, you make sure the next day that that shit does never happen ever again. [00:34:48] Wendy Martin: Absolutely. [00:34:48] LT: So, that's the point. [00:34:50] Wendy Martin: And don't blame so much, you know, I mean, Right. Yeah, I mean, there, there's, there is fault, you know, and we, But, but try to, try to be, you know, thoughtful about that, but definitely take accountability for it. [00:35:01] LT: That's key. [00:35:03] DC: Yeah. Uh, Wendy, you are saying something I think that could be seismic for Brand Nerds growing through their career, particularly if they're looking to be leaders. So a great employee will take responsibility for a mistake that they have made. That's a great employee. A great leader will take responsibility for a mistake that someone else has made. Yes. Big difference. And I would dare say, Wendy, that when you with, with the temperament that I'm seeing you display here today. Said, Hey, yeah, I, I wasn't, I wasn't at the agency Travis doing the trafficking of this spot. I, I didn't do that. I remember back in the day, Wendy, there would be someone at the agency who would literally physically take the tape over, over to the network and go. And we'd be like, okay, what time? How much time do we have? Okay. You weren't doing that. You were not in Manhattan running down the street with a tape. Yeah. You took accountability for it. That's big. Wendy, that's, this is what great leaders do. [00:36:12] Wendy Martin: Absolutely. Absolutely right. But it was, it was painful. Not gonna lie fellas. It was painful. [00:36:17] DC: Yeah. All right. Larry, any, any more from you before we hit the next question? [00:36:22] LT: No, I just want one quick, just a very quick anecdote to use the sports corollary. Steve Young and you know, San Francisco 49ers Hall of Fame quarterback talks all the time that he learned the hard way that he understood that once he threw the ball, it was literally figuratively out of his hands. And even if it got tipped five times and somebody intercepted it and it wasn't his fault, he would, after the game say, my bad, even though the receiver might've tipped the ball and they should have caught it. And that went so far in his receivers knew what he was doing. The whole team knew what he was doing. He was the ultimate, the leader in the response, responsibility. Aaron Rodgers with the New York Jets last year. He did the opposite. The opposite. Yes. [00:37:13] Wendy Martin: Credibility comes without accountability, I think, for sure. [00:37:19] DC: Yes. Great point. [00:37:23] LT: Alright, D, you ready for the next question? [00:37:25] DC: Do it, brother. [00:37:26] LT: Alright, so, uh, Wendy, regarding technology and marketing, can you tell us where you think marketers should lean in or best leverage tech, or you could go to areas that they should be leery or simply avoid? [00:37:39] Wendy Martin: Yeah, so, you know, we could go down the AI discussion. Um, you know, that's obviously a hot topic right now. But I think for for me, what I think when I think of technology, um, in the way I've best, um, engaged, um, within the organizations I've been in and use technology is to try to make sure we're solving a problem, right? Having technology that really, uh, and this is a little abnormal for some like, think about the customer. What am I delivering to the customer with with this technology? I think a lot of people think about is it enabling me to, you know, to be more efficient on the back end, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, which is great. Don't get me wrong. Business efficiency is super important. But how am I helping the customer? So, um, you know, I think at the end of the day, whether it's technology and product development, technology and services, uh, martech you know, tech stacks, how I'm delivering communications to you. It is a customer service, a customer benefit for me as a marketer to know as much as I can to deliver a customer the best information I can to help them in their buying decision, right? That's the end of the day. Um, you can have algorithms behind that. You can have telium behind that. You can have, you know, uh, tagging behind that. You can have all sorts of technology pieces behind that. But that's the ultimate goal. And I think when we, um, you know, uh, Floor & Decor wasn't over, overly technology savvy, but definitely, you know, want, wants technology to enable. Um, When we can break down, um, and think through, um, how is this helping the customer? Um, and what value are we bringing through this? Then it makes it, um, more, more palatable to, to go through, whether it be the, the, the, the expense of it, the time of it, the waiting for it, the engagement of it, the learning that maybe a machine has to do to, to be smarter with algorithms down the road. So, so to me, that's the key for technology. Um, Larry is. Is that how is it helping my customer or my store, you know, my associate, um, but ultimately that's still helping the customer. Does that make sense? [00:39:47] LT: Makes total sense. And I, what I love about that, Wendy, is that so often many marketers are just taken by again, AI for AI. We're big fans of AI, by the way, we think we should, you should lean in, but there's many folks who just want to take the greatest new tech and take it in without having the consumer in mind, you know, because ultimately that's our job. Jeff Cottrell came on this show who at one point ran marketing in North America for Coca Cola, and we've used this a lot. Jeff would have a chair for the consumer, an empty chair for the consumer most every meeting. And that represents that we've always got to be thinking of the consumer. Your answer is exactly what you're, is exactly that. Because we're not just going to do technology for technology's sake. We're going to do it to ultimately help who our consumer is. So I, I love that. [00:40:40] Wendy Martin: The flip side of that is if you have to make those hard technology choices, um, the consumer helps guide you to, yes, you do in this. Yes, we are behind. We need to catch up. Um, if you, if you're not, you know, if you're not ahead of the parade and you're in the parade, um, and, and being smart that way too. So, you know, that, that's, that, that's kind of a simplistic way, I think, to look at how technology can enable, you know, a marketing organization and organization period. But, um, but for sure, um, I think it has. [00:41:09] LT: Love it. D, what say you? [00:41:14] DC: Um, I agree with you all, uh, fully. And what I would say to the Brand Nerds is, in any decision that has to do with, uh, your business, if it starts with the technology, instead of, instead of the customer, you've started in the wrong place. Right. [00:41:32] Wendy Martin: That's a great way to think about it. Here, I've got this technology, figure out how to apply. Versus, have a problem, how can technology help me fix it? Agreed. [00:41:41] DC: There you go, Wendy. Agreed. There you go. All right. Last question of the five. Wendy, what are you most proud of? [00:41:50] Wendy Martin: Oh, let's see. Um, you know, I think we all, as we look back on our careers, look at the folks, um, you know, kind of the people I've talked about earlier, the people who did this for me that we've done that for, put our, put our arms around and, and gave them advice and helped them. So I'm so very proud of, of the folks that I've grown in my career. And I can name off many, many who, um, um, are, are far, far smarter than I am and, and are doing wonderful things. But I think if I really wanted to boil it down to my most proud of, I think it's, I think it's this working mom piece. Um, you know, I've got three kids. We've talked about them a little bit through this conversation. All three are very different. All three are, you know, at the first phases of becoming, you know, the next phase of their, of, of who they are as humans. And, and, and to see that happen, to see my oldest migrating through the working world and figuring out grad school and, um, you know, my middle one, you know, kind of already figuring out that she wants to be a sports psychologist, um, and maybe, you know, doing a double major with disability studies so she could maybe help, you know, a broader array of athletes, um, to see my son as he's looking at his next, you know, his next adventure and see how they're working as real humans and, and, and they're independent and, you know, Rick and I did some things right along the way. But knowing we, we did all that and I did all that while building these businesses, while, you know, putting, um, a lot of that, um, confidence vulnerability scale to the tasks through the years, I think I'm most proud of that. Um, it's, it's hard. It's hard. Um, but I think if you talk to other parents in my kid's school, they would say, Wendy, you're always there. Um, you're, you're, you're, you're at the games. You're, you're at the play. You're listening to them play saxophone. You're, you know, whatever it may be, um, at the award ceremony. Um, and I figured out how to do that. Um, and again, it's not easy. So I guess I'm, I'm, I'm very proud of that. Y'all. I think that's a tough thing to do. Um, and I think we've done it really well looking at these three very wonderful humans, um, and what they'll, what they'll contribute forward. So that'd probably be my, uh, be my proud moment. [00:44:10] LT: That is amazing. That is something to really be proud of, actually, that. That to look at it from where you sit, especially about to be an empty nester. Oh, yeah. Bravo. [00:44:22] Wendy Martin: Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you. It's, it's, uh, it's fun. Like I said, it's hard, but, um, but it's worth it, right? [00:44:29] LT: Yeah. [00:44:30] DC: Yeah. [00:44:30] Wendy Martin: Even though I'm not, even though I'm not a cat person, I also have three dogs. I like that. [00:44:34] DC: Yes, she has three. I'm sorry. She's a dog person. Sorry about that, Wendy. [00:44:38] Wendy Martin: I forgive you. [00:44:40] DC: I, I, I defamed you, but you're right. She's a dog person. [00:44:45] Wendy Martin: People in the world are going to hate me, but it'll be fine. [00:44:49] LT: Shout out your dog's names now. So we make sure. [00:44:52] DC: Oh yeah. Let's get the doggies in. Let's get the doggies. My [00:44:54] Wendy Martin: dogs are Quinn, Roxy and Callie. [00:44:58] LT: Love it. Love it. D, you have anything to add before we go to the next section? [00:45:04] DC: I do, Wendy, you said, um, that being there, like people say, you know, you, you, you were there. Um, this is, uh, this is personal to me. Um, I've got three children just like, um, Wendy, you and Rick have three children, and, uh, when you have a career like yours and mine and Larry's. There's a lot of pressure, takes a lot of time. And when my children were all sort of out of the nest and either in college or graduated college, I had a sad feeling because, Wendy, I thought I had not spent enough time with my daughters, Haley, Lauren, and Sydney. And I began to get on this guilt trip of I sacrificed my time with my daughters to build a career, and it was a, it, it, it was and has been a wonderful career. And then just like your answer to the question of, um, the people that had, you've learned from in your career to have the most influence in your career. When you talked about this virtual arm around you and you said, moments, I'm now connecting that to this, uh, this answer that you're giving. What my daughter said to me because I expressed this to them at different times and they said dad you were always there for the important moments. [00:46:37] Wendy Martin: And we can't predict when they're going to be right. Do you see like, you just don't know. But, um, but yeah, I mean, I think that's, that's the hard part is figuring out, you know, how do you make it? It's a, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a quilt. It's a fabric that we have. Leave a little bit, but, um, but yeah, I, you know, I mean, of course there, you know, times and places and, and you can do more. I wish I could do more at work. I wish I could do more for myself. I wish I could, I wish I could. And I'm sure when Tucker's out of the house, I'll, I'll, um, you know, I'll have a gaping hole, um, of, of, uh, of time, uh, that I'll hopefully reinvest in, in something else. But, um, but yeah, it's, it's important and, and I really have made a concerted effort. We live near where I work. We live near where the kids go to school. I mean, we made choices along the journey, um, trying to, um, you know, make it as, as, uh, feasible as possible to, to, to be both, uh, the, um, the working person who has, you know, big jobs and lots of responsibility and accountability for, for performance, for results, for the people at the office, but also for these three little humans that, um, that, um, we, you know, we love to bits and, and want to be successful. [00:47:50] DC: Love this. Wonderful. That's a mic drop, Larry. [00:47:56] LT: That's a mic drop. [00:47:56] Wendy Martin: That's a vulnerable moment, y'all. See, look, I can be vulnerable. [00:48:01] LT: That was awesome, Wendy. That was. We're going to the next segment now. So, DC, Wendy, what's poppin? [00:48:08] DC: What's poppin?! [00:48:09] LT: So, Wendy, this is our chance to shout out, shout down, or simply air something happening in and around marketing today that we think is good fodder for discussion. And I think, Wendy, you've got a really good one, so hit us with it, please. [00:48:21] Wendy Martin: So I read something the other day that said, you know, the old school mentality of the marketing funnel is dead. There's no such thing as the funnel, you know, and I. I disagree with that, Larry. I still believe in in the basic core of how people make decisions that there is a process to that. It may be ziggity zaggity like we talked about earlier. It may be, it may not be the same for me as it is for you as it is for DC. There's still a process you go through. And, you know, if you, if you're not aware of a company. You can't buy from them. Maybe in a big marketplace like Amazon, you don't really know who you're buying from, but any place else you can think of, you got to know who they are in order to be able to literally purchase from them. So, so I think that, you know, a lot of companies have gone so far, we'll call it down funnel. So performance oriented. And we talked earlier, like I am a marketer who believes in giving return. I want to leverage every year. I want to make the dollars go further. I want to have strong KPIs. But if you just live your life at the bottom of that funnel, um, as a, as a great leader at Floor & Decor to say, we, we now got a cylinder y'all, you know, we don't have, we don't have a funnel anymore. We got a cylinder and, and you're just going to work the, you know, less people through that, through that, that, that pipeline. So, um, you know, I love your thoughts and DC's thoughts on that whole idea of, you know. And making sure you're taking a customer from I'm aware of this business. I'm familiar with what they bring to the table too. I've engaged or shopped with them to now I've purchased. And now I want to be, you know, back in the top of that, you know, um, repeat business wise from a loyalty perspective, what are your thoughts? [00:50:02] LT: This is a juicy one day. You might, if I hop in first. [00:50:05] DC: Hop in brother hop in. [00:50:07] LT: So I completely agree with what you're saying I think to quote, uh, and we do this on our show quite a bit the the great Sergio Zeman who was the cmo at coca cola back in our day Uh, he used to he used to call a lot of what was done, lazy marketing. And I believe that it's lazy marketing to just be at the bottom of the funnel, right? Because then you are not, uh, being conscious of the whole, of who your target audience is and what, in our parlance, who your brand lover is, to really be conscious about that. You're just surfing in the people that happen to be, that happen to know you. And invariably those people go away, they get older, et cetera, et cetera. You, you constantly, again, another Sergio wisdom. He had a lot, you have to reintroduce your brand to someone new every day. And so if you live at the bottom of that funnel. You're, you're eventually, uh, that those people are going to go away and, and dare I say you're effed, right? So you have to be conscious of the full funnel. And it doesn't mean that they, that you can't do it in a way that's. That's synergistic. You got to do in a way that's synergistic with the whole thing to be conscious about it all and how much maybe in some years you have to spend more more resources on the top end of the funnel versus the bottom end and vice versa. Those are the kind of conscious decisions I think with the information hopefully that you have that you can that you can render in a way. That's ultimately going to be successful. What's best for the business? We say this a lot, Wendy. What's best for the business? Not only today, but tomorrow too. So those are my thoughts. [00:51:49] Wendy Martin: Short term versus long term, I think is also a part of that conversation. I've got to drive sales today, but I also got to drive sales next week and the week after that. And the other key, I think, and I'd love your thoughts, DC, but the other key, I think, to this is the word relevant in front of all of that. Relevant awareness. Um, because, you know, in certain businesses, you know, certain customers are not, you said it earlier, a middle schooler isn't necessarily the customer for Porsche. That's a great, that's a great word of mouth, you know, high influence brand, but there are certain businesses, Floor & Decor as an example, that, you know, a woman who lives in an apartment probably is not doing that. Probably not, yeah. [00:52:27] DC: Safe assumption. [00:52:28] Wendy Martin: Yeah, Express probably wasn't as relevant for someone who's my age. Like, so, you know, understanding who your customer is, is vital because that awareness play, you want to be relevant. Um, but, um, but I don't believe the full funnel is dead. And I don't believe that, you know, each phase doesn't interrelate to the next in a way that makes you more successful, um, building on that, that foundation. What are your thoughts, DC? [00:52:53] DC: I agree with you, uh, Wendy, as well as you, Larry, um, the notion that the full funnel is dead. Wherever that logic came from, that logic is dead in my mind, and I'm going to explain why if you say that the full funnel or the funnel, the marketing funnel is dead, then I would have to deduce from that, that we just believe people purchase out of the blue. You just arrive at the I'm buying this thing. There is a process that humans go through before they purchase. So not only is the full funnel not dead, it's very much alive as long as humans are still human. So that's my, that's, that's my reaction to the, the meta point. Now, let me go now to the micro point, which is probably what this person means. Although they said that the photo said is that It's all about the, the bottom of the funnel. It's just, it's just about the bottom of the funnel. It's the lower funnel. And so, okay, so Brand Nerds just, we, we, we, another quote from, um, Sergio Zeman that we really like, which, uh, Larry and I will mention from time to time is marketing is too important to be left to the marketers. And so for, for the Brand Nerds out there that are listening, that are not necessarily trained in marketing. Let me explain this funnel to you. It's like a literal funnel, like if you were using it in your kitchen or in your car. And it's wide at the top and it gets low, uh, more narrow at the bottom. It starts with awareness, then interest, then consideration, then intent, then evaluation, then purchase, and then loyalty, and then you repeat. So this is how it goes down, guys. Alright, so now here is my issue with this notion of the funnel is dead. And also, Wendy and LT, my issue with a, this maniacal focus on the bottom of the funnel that has to do with if I use a performance marketing, let's use performance in another category. Let's use performance in music. If we were using concerts as an analog to marketing, The lower funnel would do everything possible to say you need to purchase this concert ticket, right? You're gonna do this ticket and let's say you hit them, you you've already figured out if we do them 30 times in these locations and we chase them around their phones We're gonna hit them a number of times and make them purchase now say I've made the purchase of this concert ticket. Now I go to the concert. All right, I go to the concert We're trying to get a loyal to a thing there If the artist bombs, you're not coming back to that concert ever again. You're never going to see that artist. So the top of the funnel is about making certain that the artist is well defined and understood to the customer, that the artist's stories and songs Are interesting to the customer that the customer will go. I I'm aware of you. I'm interested in you. I'm going to now consider you. Then I might intend to come to the concert. You gotta have all of those. Otherwise you get a purchase that is not repeatable and therefore your renting share. Not earning it. So that's that's my takeaway. [00:56:03] Wendy Martin: Yeah, agree. Also, there's there's a misnomer that certain that a channel a medium, um, does only one thing in the funnel, right? Only it only you in one way. [00:56:17] DC: Yeah, that's right. [00:56:17] Wendy Martin: And I think that that complexity actually is is very challenging for integrated media planning today is, you know, certain channels could could very well go in and out of different phases, right? to get you aware of a business or make you feel more, you know, more, more knowledgeable what they provide. And certainly, you know, um, that, that direct connection to, to do something, take action now. So that, that also adds some complexity to, um, a lot of complexity, uh, for us as marketers. But I definitely think that the philosophy, um, as you sit down and think about your strategies needs to be like, You know, who's my customer? What's relevant to them? How do I make myself more relevant in that space? Make them more aware of me. Make them more sticky to me. [00:57:00] DC: Yes. [00:57:01] Wendy Martin: You know, and and and and have them enjoy what I what I offer, whether it's an experience, a product, um, a service, um, to the they'll they'll either give us word of mouth, which is always helpful, right? Big The business, um, or shop us again. So, um, so anyway, I think that's a, it's, it's, it's, it's a tough one. You know, it used to be fairly simple TV by level through down to maybe search at the lower, you know, or email lower end of that, um, that funnel, but it's a lot more complex today, but I don't think by any stretch it's because it's more complex, it's harder, but it's not gone. [00:57:36] DC: It's not completely, completely agree. Go ahead, Larry. I'll say one more thing, but go ahead, brother. [00:57:40] LT: No, you go first. [00:57:41] DC: All right. What you're describing, Wendy, this is what's happened over time before the funnel used to literally be just a vertical exercise. Now it's dynamic. Now it's dynamic, but it's still a funnel. It's still a funnel. [00:57:56] LT: All right. And dare I say to Wendy, we talk about this a lot on the show. That brands are about emotional connections. That's what we as marketers strive towards. And if you're just playing at the bottom of the funnel, invariably like DC alluded to that's performance marketing. And what is that synonymous with it? Promotions and deals like, you know, that's bribing. And so you're not able to tell the full story. DC alluded to the artist, which is a great one. A full story of a brand and if you get the full story and the full connection, that's where you again can blossom and blossom not only today, but you're planting seeds for tomorrow too. So, I mean, [00:58:37] Wendy Martin: The content you deliver, I mean, we talk often in the funnel in terms of what channel you're using, but the content, the message, um, I think could be frankly even more important than the, the, the channel you choose to put that message in. Cause the channel could be different for each of us. Right. But yeah. Yeah. At that point in time, what is the, what is, what is the pivotal piece of information that helps you move through to the next phase, um, I think is, is, is vital in some place that I love to play. And that's one of my favorite spaces is, you know, how do we tell this story through the lens of a couple of different channels at each phase, um, in a, in a really effective way. [00:59:12] LT: Love this. Oh, what a great conversation. [00:59:14] DC: That is, that's a great, what's poppin Wendy. That was, Wendy. Great, what's poppin [00:59:18] LT: Thank you. All right, Wendy, we're at the show close. This is this has been so much fun. Um, in the show close, I'm going to posit some learnings and then hand it up to DC. And then, uh, before we get out of here, we'd love to hear if you learned anything from this wonderful conversation that we've had. So I, Wendy, there's a ton, but I'm going to call it down to five. And, um, so number one, early in your career, be open minded, curious, and fearlessly think of what can be. That's number one, brand nerds. Number two, take every opportunity to learn. Wendy did that from the get go. Number three, don't be afraid to be vulnerable and ask questions, ask for advice. That will take you further. That's number three. Number four, with technology, make sure that when you're in your marketing realm, that you're actually solving a problem with the technology and how is it going to be ultimately helping the company. You're all your customer or consumer and that may mean like in Wendy's case She alluded to in a retail establishment. If you're helping the people that work at the retail establishment They're ultimately gonna help the consumer but it's always to have the consumer in mind So that's the fourth one in the fifth one DC. Wendy said this is a very quick aside she said we make choices in life And what I interpret, uh, where, where I think she was going is with things you can control in your life and brand, there's a lot of things we can't try and make your life easy, like living near work and school that Wendy alluded to and be much more available for those important moments that Wendy did not miss. Those are my five. [01:01:05] DC: Excellent. Larry. Excellent. Wendy. Don't know if you've listened to any of our podcasts before. Whether you have or haven't, hopefully you'll listen to this one. Um, at the end, I attempt to conclude, at least in my mind, it doesn't mean it's true. Like who, who, who is this person in front of us? Like what, what, what, what, what's the soul have that only this soul can provide? To these seven plus billion people on the planet. And, um, you know, sometimes it hits me. Sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it hits me right away. Sometimes it it's, it's a little late, but something has hit me and I'd like to share it with you now. When we started in the get comfy section, you mentioned at the beginning of your career. You're looking at this new opportunity with wonderment, you had some wonder like, oh wow. Like, yes, there's a lot going on here, but like, like what, what can it be like, what, what kind of possibilities are here? And then you mentioned your fearlessness, that your fearless, uh, even then, and that fearlessness has, has been a theme, I dare say, through your entire career. You've had some fearlessness, but you didn't just take along the fearlessness as you talked about your moves. You also said, it's okay to be vulnerable. It's all right to be vulnerable. And then you gave the example at Home Depot, here you are, you're on the client side. And you call some of the same folks that you used to know and some of them work with when you're an agency saying, Hey, I don't know what to do. If you were in my shoes, what would you do? Vulnerable. And then there's another thing that you mentioned, you said high growth, high growth. And something I've noticed through your career is you went from Home Depot, that grew, super monstrance, monstrous. Then you go to Express, smaller company, more responsibility. Also high growth. And then you go to Floor & Decor, smaller company, and even more growth. So you've got more responsibility and more growth as you went from step to step. And then I'm thinking to myself, okay, wow, what, what, what, what, what is this here? And then. It came to me and I went back to your question, uh, the answer you had about first brand experience and you mentioned you're in middle school, you're in middle school and you, you're, you're in this 911 and you're like, ooh, I kind of like this. I think I'd like to have one of these one day. Now that one day was going to be a while from now because you didn't have your license then, but I'd like to have this one day. And then your husband, Rick, that one day comes. And your husband Rick says to you, hey, hey, hey, baby, you've worked hard. Yeah, we got child seats and the like and all of that, but you're getting now is the time where you're going to get this, this 911. And did you say it was a convertible? Did you say that? Yeah, it was a good, mm-hmm . 911 convertable. [01:04:29] LT: When was it a good time? I love that about Rick. It was never gonna be a good time. [01:04:32] DC: Never gonna be a good time. Alright. And then I thought, ah, mm, interesting. So, Brand Nerds. Uh, let me give you just a, a small history lesson on 911s. 911s have variants. One of the variants is a 993. So there's nine, 911s, and then they have like 992.1 and 9 9 1 0.2, all the, so one of the variance is 993. These variants have to do with the years. That these Porsches were manufactured the 993 was manufactured between 1995 and 1998 Let's go back Wendy to some of your words wonder the 993 is considered by many Porsche enthusiasts as the best Porsche of all time the 993. Why is it considered that because it's got this combination of engineering prowess But maintains the vintage elegance like 993s are like very, very special 911s. So they have this wonder and fearlessness when Porsche built the 993, they use 70 percent new parts from the nine six four, which was right before it. So they went 993 and they said, we need to like completely do this thing. Vulnerability. When Porsche made the 993, they were in financial straits, so they licensed off the bunch of stuff. They did not know that they were going to be in business. So they made this radical change, like we're changing 70 percent of this car because we hope to stay in business. And then high growth, something that you said, Wendy, that 993 saved the company. They grew after that. And now we know Porsche as we know Porsche, but people, most people don't know they almost went out of business and it was the 993 variant, that particular variant, 95 to 98, that saved the company. Where am I going with all of this? The correlation between that 993 and wonderment, fearlessness on Porsche's behalf to go 70 percent new, vulnerability, they're about to go out of business so they license and then it's saving the company. I believe, uh, Wendy, that you currently are, and you have been the 993 of the brand and business world. I think you have been that throughout your career. And then, finally, I will say this. Why the 993? Why, why, actually, in your case, the 911, uh, Porsche? Why the convertible? It's so that when you put that top down, hopefully not when it was too cold in Columbus, but when you put that top down, and you lower that window, and you put your left hand on that steering wheel to drive it that they would see these three hearts that represent your kids as you are flossing out. That's it. [01:08:01] Wendy Martin: Wow, I can't tell you that I knew all that story, but it's amazing. And, um, and, uh, obviously, um, very heart, very touching to me for you to, um, to kind of be able to in a very short period of time, we've known each other to, to kind of look at my career and, and, uh, and, and say it that way. DC, it's very, very, very meaningful to me. Thank you. [01:08:25] DC: You're very welcome. [01:08:26] Wendy Martin: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. But yes, [01:08:29] LT: He has a way of doing that. [01:08:30] Wendy Martin: Yes. Yes. And I have, I have listened to several of your podcasts. Um, but, um, but thank you. Um, today has been, been absolutely fantastic. Um, I couldn't, couldn't have asked for a better conversation. Um, so Larry, I just kind of wrap up my thoughts, you think, or [01:08:44] LT: If you have any thoughts you want to add about our conversation that you'd like to sort of reiterate for the Brand Nerds to take home with or [01:08:52] DC: You know, you guys hit Hold on, Wendy, before you do that. Sorry, Larry. You raised your arm at Brand Nerds who are listening to this, but not watching it. Uh, can you talk about this tattoo you have? [01:09:03] Wendy Martin: Sure. So I have three, um, you, you hit the nail on the head. You know exactly what the three little hearts are, but, um, three little interlocking hearts on my inner wrist is, um, one of just two tattoos I have. I'm not a big tattoo person, but, um, I got this actually relatively recently, DC, my middle daughter, Reese, the one that's at UCLA, um, is a connoisseur of tattoos. She has a handful, um, that she's purposely curated. Um, she didn't start. It was 18. She's only 20. So, um, you know, it's only been a while she's been doing it, but each one has a huge meaning for her. She made voiceful decisions with what she's, with what she's choosing to, um, get put on her, um, on her, on her body. And they all have these great stories behind them. And so she and I went, as she was going back for sophomore year this year, we went together and she got, um, a tattoo in honor of my mom who passed away a few years ago. And she's been for those five years since my mom's been gone thinking about what she wanted to get. And she ended up getting, um, so North Carolina, uh, Larry, uh, the dogwood. [01:10:06] LT: Ah, that's awesome. [01:10:08] Wendy Martin: Which is a, is a, is a very familiar tree slash flower. Um, so she ended up getting that. And I ended up getting my three little hearts, um, for the kiddos. So, um, you know, it's, it's fun. It's, you know, it's, it's awesome. But, um, but just a constant reminder of, of that, you know, the, my proud my proud moment, um, my, my three, so yeah. Yep, fun story. Yeah, but thank you for noticing. Yeah, they're kind of kind of fun. Um, so just, you know, kind of in retrospective the conversation I would say for from an advice perspective you guys hit on a lot of what I would consider very important phases and thoughts throughout my career. Um, and you know, as I would coach and mentor folks with, you know, within my team or other teams throughout organizations, the one thing we didn't touch on as much, but maybe comes through a little bit, my personality is sometimes you just have to have a light moment. Sometimes you just have to, you know, like make a little fun of yourself, um, bring down the tension, um, you know, um, lighten the mood, uh, you know, just, just, just call it what it is. Like, it's not that important. Let's, let's bring it down much. And I think we're in. skill. You don't want to be silly and doing the wrong moment. Then you look like, you know, an ass. But, um, if you pick those moments to say like, this is the light moment, let's take it down. Everybody breathe a minute and, and try to have a little fun. Um, uh, you know, what we do should be fun. Uh, marketing is fun innately. Um, so maybe that's a, you know, last piece of, of advice I would leave, um, for the listeners. [01:11:42] LT: I love that one. And it comes through loud and clear, Wendy. So for you to put the stamp on at the end here is absolutely perfect. Um, which is a great segue to our, to our show closed. Brand Nerds, thanks for listening to Brands, Beats and Bytes. The executive producers are Jeff Shirley, Darryl "DC" Cobbin, Larry Taman, and Hailey Cobbin, Jade Tate and Tom Dioro. [01:12:05] DC: The Podfather. [01:12:07] LT: That is he. And if you do like this podcast, please subscribe and share. And for those on Apple podcasts. If you are so inclined, we love those excellent reviews. We hope you enjoyed this podcast and we look forward to next time where we will have more insightful and enlightening talk about marketing.