Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Missing Skelton boys' dad refuses to reveal their whereabouts, insists they're alive with 'underground sect'

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Missing Skelton boys' dad refuses to reveal their whereabouts, insists they're alive with 'underground sect' · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:07
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel
0:11
Speaker 1: one two. Three little brothers, Tanner, Alexander, Andrew, just five
0:22
Speaker 1: seven and nine years old, vanished from their home. What happened?
0:30
Speaker 1: Is there a new and stunning explanation? We want these
0:36
Speaker 1: boys home alive? Is that even possible? Now? I'm Nancy Grace,
0:42
Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. We,
0:45
Speaker 1: of course are referring to the missing little skeleton brothers, beautiful,
0:52
Speaker 1: beautiful little boys every time I see them. The one
0:56
Speaker 1: with the little glasses is pictured in the middle, the
0:59
Speaker 1: tender ages five, seven and nine. How did they just
1:05
Speaker 1: disappear from their own home? As at this hour, anthropologists
1:12
Speaker 1: are studying bone fragments to determine if they belong to
1:17
Speaker 1: the three boys. Praise God in heaven as I go
1:21
Speaker 1: to air right now, I've learned those bone fragments are
1:24
Speaker 1: not the Skelton brothers just five, seven and nine years old.
1:29
Speaker 1: So where are they? With me? Sandra Alie, w d
1:35
Speaker 1: i V Detroit investigative reporter, along with Jeremy Allen also
1:40
Speaker 1: joining us from w d i V Detroit, Karen stark Renow,
1:44
Speaker 1: New York psychologist and the director of the Cold Case
1:48
Speaker 1: Research Institute, Cheryl McCullum. First to Sandra, Sandra, thank you
1:55
Speaker 1: so much for being with us. I have been tormented
2:00
Speaker 1: by the disappearance of these little boys, about the age
2:03
Speaker 1: of my twin boy and girl. It's driving me crazy.
2:08
Speaker 1: It's like I'm gonna jump out of my skin. But
2:10
Speaker 1: I don't know what to do. Sandra, what do you know?
2:13
Speaker 1: How did it all start? Well, you know what, Nancy.
2:16
Speaker 1: First of all, thank you so much for having us.
2:17
Speaker 1: And I think it's so important to not forget about
2:23
Speaker 1: these boys like you just mentioned. It just it breaks
2:26
Speaker 1: your heart when you look at their pictures and know
2:30
Speaker 1: that investigators, FBI, agents, UH, state police, everyone has been
2:36
Speaker 1: searching for these little boys for so long and no
2:40
Speaker 1: one has any answers, no one is any closer to
2:44
Speaker 1: any answers. And I gotta today something Sandra with me.
2:49
Speaker 1: Sandra Ali and Jeremy Allen from w d I V.
2:52
Speaker 1: When I just got the news that bones were discovered
2:56
Speaker 1: in a Missoula backyard, I my stum almost threw up,
3:02
Speaker 1: thinking is this them? Jeremy Allen, when did we first
3:08
Speaker 1: learned that three little boys were missing? And under what circumstances.
3:11
Speaker 1: So yeah, So back in Black Friday two thousand, John
3:14
Speaker 1: Skelton boys father he had the boys um for the
3:17
Speaker 1: holiday and he was to return them the following day.
3:21
Speaker 1: I'm sorry that he was to return them on Friday
3:24
Speaker 1: at three pm. And of course that didn't happen. So um,
3:29
Speaker 1: the media panic hit the town, a small town of
3:32
Speaker 1: Marentci on the boys mind. Wait a minute, Wait a minute,
3:34
Speaker 1: right there, Hold on, hold on, Why Sandra would the
3:39
Speaker 1: fact that the dad was late returning the boys, I
3:42
Speaker 1: assumed to the mom. Why would that cause a panic
3:45
Speaker 1: just because he was late? Parents were always light Well,
3:47
Speaker 1: they they had actually been having an ongoing custody issue
3:51
Speaker 1: Nancy that had really started to escalate in the fall
3:55
Speaker 1: end of summer, early fall. Their father, John Skelton, had
3:59
Speaker 1: paid getting them out of school before that taking them
4:02
Speaker 1: on a trip to Florida without the mother's permission, So
4:07
Speaker 1: this isn't had been ongoing. So immediately on that Black Friday,
4:12
Speaker 1: when their mother, Tanya called and said she wanted to
4:15
Speaker 1: pick the boys up a little bit earlier than they
4:18
Speaker 1: had originally planned, John Skelton told her they weren't home
4:24
Speaker 1: and and he's the one that's supposed to have them.
4:26
Speaker 1: I mean that strikes fear. And I gotta tell you something,
4:30
Speaker 1: Sandra and Jeremy Kien Cheryl, you know this. I have
4:34
Speaker 1: to travel and for instance, I was just in Vegas
4:37
Speaker 1: on a bill bond issue and I was out of
4:40
Speaker 1: my skin. I call home when I can't get anybody
4:42
Speaker 1: on the phone. I go berserk. I think the worst.
4:46
Speaker 1: And and you call and the husband says, well, I
4:50
Speaker 1: don't have them. I would go through the roof. I
4:54
Speaker 1: would go berserk. You what do you mean you don't
4:56
Speaker 1: have them? You you have my children. So, Jeremy Allen,
5:00
Speaker 1: now I get it when you say. A panic ensued.
5:03
Speaker 1: So the mom calls the dad he's got the boys,
5:07
Speaker 1: is time for them to come back home? And he says,
5:09
Speaker 1: I don't know where they are. I don't know where
5:11
Speaker 1: that So what happened then, Jeremy, Yeah, I mean he
5:14
Speaker 1: didn't exactly say it in where they are? I mean,
5:15
Speaker 1: there's there are so many parts to this story, right,
5:17
Speaker 1: because he actually was in Toledo, Ohio, in a in
5:21
Speaker 1: a hospital, um because he tried to kill himself. And
5:24
Speaker 1: he told the mom, boy my stars, you find out
5:30
Speaker 1: your husband is in or your ex is in a
5:34
Speaker 1: hospital after a suicide attempt. Well, where are the boys,
5:40
Speaker 1: ages five, seven, and nine? I mean, Cheryl McCullum, director
5:46
Speaker 1: of the Cold Case Institute, right there. I would be bizarre.
5:53
Speaker 1: The husband's in the hospital and he doesn't know where
5:54
Speaker 1: the children are. I would lose my mind. And I
5:57
Speaker 1: agree with what everybody has said so far. This is
6:00
Speaker 1: when everybody panic. So this man has attempted to take
6:04
Speaker 1: his own life failed, but it's telling you I don't
6:08
Speaker 1: have the children, and what about the mother? Tanya Zubers.
6:12
Speaker 1: Take a listen to what the mom says. I don't
6:16
Speaker 1: know what's going on. I don't know where my kids are.
6:18
Speaker 1: I'm a mess. I don't know are my sons laying
6:21
Speaker 1: in this house? Did he flip out and do something?
6:25
Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on. I don't know where
6:27
Speaker 1: my kids are. I know that their dad is now
6:29
Speaker 1: telling the hospital he tried to kill himself. Where are
6:32
Speaker 1: my sons? What have you done to them? Hard to
6:39
Speaker 1: imagine them hurting for me. He's the one that holds
6:44
Speaker 1: the key, He's the ones that can make this all
6:48
Speaker 1: see be solved. Are not seeing your kids anymore? Jus
6:56
Speaker 1: My relevance is um. I don't know if i'llow or
7:02
Speaker 1: know in this was like time t W D I
7:05
Speaker 1: V Sandra Ali when she say or says, are they crying?
7:10
Speaker 1: Are they scared? Are they crying for me? I mean,
7:14
Speaker 1: I just what have you learned in your investigation? What happened?
7:20
Speaker 1: Than Sandra the mom calls the dad's in the hospital
7:22
Speaker 1: and doesn't know where the boys are. What happened next, Sandra, Well, well,
7:27
Speaker 1: Tanya immediately called her family members. She said, initially she wondered,
7:34
Speaker 1: what did you do to my boys? That was her
7:37
Speaker 1: first question. That was the first thing that came to
7:39
Speaker 1: her mind. And are they okay? Did you hurt them?
7:44
Speaker 1: And she immediately in a panic, talked to her family
7:49
Speaker 1: members and then they got the Maurency police involved. Well,
7:53
Speaker 1: this is what he, the husband, says happens. He said
7:56
Speaker 1: that it was a Wednesday, and he made the boys
7:58
Speaker 1: their favorite meal, fried shake, can and a cake to
8:01
Speaker 1: celebrate Andrew's birthday. They all had dinner together and watched
8:04
Speaker 1: a karate movie. And then, in one of his versions
8:11
Speaker 1: Jeremy Allen, he says, a blue zan comes up and
8:18
Speaker 1: takes the children. Hold on, let's listen to what the
8:23
Speaker 1: dad says, do you know the location? Are whereabouts of
8:27
Speaker 1: your children? Were they accompanied by anybody? Who? Were they
8:31
Speaker 1: accompanied by? Pardon me, a person intergrating? Did you know
8:37
Speaker 1: the person? I knew the organization, but I didn't know
8:40
Speaker 1: the person. Know what an organization? The organization? To Sandra
8:47
Speaker 1: l a w d i V Detroit investigative reporter, a van.
8:52
Speaker 1: Investigators say that they wonder was it Skelton behind the
8:57
Speaker 1: wheel of a minivan the day his three sons go missing? Uh,
9:04
Speaker 1: I'm trying to I'm having a hard time taking in
9:08
Speaker 1: his story. Did he make a stop in Holiday City
9:11
Speaker 1: a few miles south of the Michigan Ohio border. Was
9:15
Speaker 1: he the one behind the family's minivan? What Sandra helped
9:20
Speaker 1: me understand the way the facts unfold at this point.
9:23
Speaker 1: You know what, Nancy, there were so many versions of
9:28
Speaker 1: his initial story, and and when when we talked to investigators,
9:32
Speaker 1: they actually said that that was one of the things
9:35
Speaker 1: that tipped them off that John Skelton stories, they said
9:39
Speaker 1: never added up. He had so many different versions. Initially
9:44
Speaker 1: he did mention a blue van, and when I talked
9:46
Speaker 1: to him in prison just a few weeks ago, his
9:49
Speaker 1: story changed. He said it was a light colored van,
9:52
Speaker 1: Santa Ali W D I V joining me along with
9:55
Speaker 1: Jeremy Allen, also W D I V Detroit reporter Alan producer.
10:02
Speaker 1: Sandra You actually went behind bars and spoke to the dad.
10:08
Speaker 1: I did, Nancy. I went into the prison and I
10:11
Speaker 1: and I and I talked to John. We reached out
10:14
Speaker 1: to him. We reached out to John while we were
10:17
Speaker 1: working on a series of these stories over the left,
10:19
Speaker 1: many many months, and he wrote me. He sent me
10:24
Speaker 1: letters from prison, and he put me on the visitor's list.
10:29
Speaker 1: And I went in and and we did the first
10:32
Speaker 1: interview in fact, aside from his mother, who's visited him
10:36
Speaker 1: twice while he was in segregation, this was his first
10:39
Speaker 1: in person visit with anyone since he's been incarcerating. Sandra
10:44
Speaker 1: Ali with me W D I V. Who goes behind
10:47
Speaker 1: bars to speak to the man who says he's the
10:49
Speaker 1: last one to see the three little boys alive. Listen
10:53
Speaker 1: to what the dad says behind bars. I walked in
10:59
Speaker 1: with a notebook pen which then I was told wasn't allowed.
11:03
Speaker 1: We weren't allowed to record our visit in any way,
11:06
Speaker 1: but guards opened several doors. They escorted me to a
11:09
Speaker 1: small area that looked like a classroom full of prisoners,
11:13
Speaker 1: and out of the corner of my eye, I saw
11:15
Speaker 1: John Skelton sitting alone. We talked for more than two hours.
11:22
Speaker 1: Remember we weren't allowed to bring any of our cameras
11:25
Speaker 1: inside prison, so all I had to rely on was
11:28
Speaker 1: my memory. I couldn't get back to the car fast
11:30
Speaker 1: enough so I could get everything I was thinking and
11:33
Speaker 1: feeling on tape. If you can tell, my adrenaline was pumping.
11:37
Speaker 1: So I walked in the room, we made eye contact.
11:42
Speaker 1: He shook my hand and he started sobbing, which caught
11:48
Speaker 1: me off guard. John apologized for crying. He said he
11:52
Speaker 1: was so emotional because he couldn't believe he was having
11:54
Speaker 1: contact with a visitor. I was the first person to
11:57
Speaker 1: visit him here I was sitting in the chair next
12:01
Speaker 1: to him. I didn't realize we would be in such
12:04
Speaker 1: close proximity. We were side by side the entire time,
12:08
Speaker 1: and to my surprise, John wasn't wearing any restraints, no handcuffs,
12:13
Speaker 1: his belly chain and shackles had all been removed. I
12:16
Speaker 1: asked him about the boys right off the bat. In tears,
12:19
Speaker 1: he said, I missed their voices. John said they loved
12:22
Speaker 1: picking vegetables together, mowing the lawn, and doing dishes. You
12:26
Speaker 1: could ask anyone in Marenci or any of the inmates here,
12:29
Speaker 1: they'll tell you I was a good dad. I would
12:32
Speaker 1: never hurt my boys or anyone. On their last night together,
12:36
Speaker 1: which John remembers as being the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, John
12:40
Speaker 1: says he bade the boys their favorite meal, fried chicken,
12:43
Speaker 1: and a cake to celebrate Andrew's birthday. John said they
12:47
Speaker 1: all ate dinner together at the table, then watched a
12:49
Speaker 1: karate movie before going to bed. John says he had
12:53
Speaker 1: earned made arrangements with the group he calls the Underground
12:56
Speaker 1: Sanctuary to give the boys away, and on Thanksgiving Nie
13:00
Speaker 1: at ten, John says he watched as two women and
13:03
Speaker 1: a man who looked like he was in his sixties
13:05
Speaker 1: pulled up to the house in their light colored van
13:08
Speaker 1: to take Andrew, Alexander, and Tanner away. John says he
13:12
Speaker 1: told the boys they were going to have a better
13:14
Speaker 1: life with a new family, a family who lived on
13:17
Speaker 1: an Amish farm in Ohio, right along the Indiana border.
13:21
Speaker 1: He promised them their new family would buy them the
13:23
Speaker 1: farm boots they've been asking for and let the bride
13:26
Speaker 1: on a tractor whenever they wanted. Breaking down in tears
13:30
Speaker 1: for the fourth time during our interview, John said he
13:33
Speaker 1: regrets giving his boys away. Based on cell phone tower records,
13:37
Speaker 1: police say the dad John Skelton's drive that evening started
13:43
Speaker 1: around four a m. And ended six a m. Is
13:51
Speaker 1: that when he said goodbye to his children, possibly for
13:56
Speaker 1: all times. Karen start joining me in New York Psycho.
14:00
Speaker 1: I'll just see, it's so difficult for people like me
14:03
Speaker 1: or Cheryl, who I know to be parents, to understand
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Speaker 1: a dad not coming clean about where his children are.
14:10
Speaker 1: I mean, the fact that he keeps changing his story
14:13
Speaker 1: makes me know if I didn't suspect him at the beginning,
14:15
Speaker 1: I do now, why would his story change? Karen. I
14:18
Speaker 1: don't understand how you can disassociate from your own children,
14:21
Speaker 1: Karen Start. His story keeps changing because he can't come
14:25
Speaker 1: up with the right story. Nancy. He's not telling us
14:29
Speaker 1: the truth. And I think it's very telling that he
14:32
Speaker 1: tried to kill himself, because you're always talking about when
14:36
Speaker 1: somebody how does it always happen that they managed to
14:41
Speaker 1: kill their children, but they can't kill themselves, And I
14:45
Speaker 1: think that's a very telling incident. I think that this
14:50
Speaker 1: is a whole bunch of malarkey. Now, you certainly put
14:54
Speaker 1: it more going on. You certainly put it a lot
14:56
Speaker 1: more nicely than I would have. Karen start. And another
15:00
Speaker 1: a thing I'd like to ask you about with me,
15:02
Speaker 1: Karen Stark, unwed New York psychologist, Karen, we know. Let
15:07
Speaker 1: me let me double check with Jeremy Allen w D
15:09
Speaker 1: I V. Jeremy. Obviously they're having a very contentious custody
15:15
Speaker 1: problem because you outline how he took the children out
15:18
Speaker 1: of town when he wasn't supposed to, he wouldn't return
15:20
Speaker 1: them on time. So with that, what what do we
15:23
Speaker 1: know about that? Because then I'm gonna go back to
15:25
Speaker 1: Karen with that as a backdrop. Yeah, So the backstory
15:29
Speaker 1: and the reason that they had the marital problems, I mean,
15:32
Speaker 1: one of the big reasons they did was because John
15:35
Speaker 1: Um decided that after going to a family i'm sorry,
15:38
Speaker 1: a class reunion down in Jacksonville, Florida, where he went
15:41
Speaker 1: to high school, that he wanted to move his family
15:43
Speaker 1: to Florida. Jeremy Allen, the mom did not want to
15:46
Speaker 1: leave the state. I mean, I can only imagine coming
15:49
Speaker 1: home and my husband saying, oh, yeah, we're moving to Florida.
15:51
Speaker 1: Oh over my cold dead body. Not that there's anything
15:54
Speaker 1: wrong with Florida, but I'm not going to uproot the
15:57
Speaker 1: children from their school and their home and their relative
16:00
Speaker 1: Tis and just moved because he wants to be closer
16:02
Speaker 1: to his high school buddies. But the taking the children
16:06
Speaker 1: away and the custody battle ensuing, Karen start. I mean,
16:12
Speaker 1: so often we see that as a backdrop to felonies.
16:16
Speaker 1: The parents can't get along, and then send of the
16:18
Speaker 1: children go missing because one of the parents is is
16:22
Speaker 1: saying if I can't have them, then nobody can have them.
16:25
Speaker 1: I want to go back to Sandra ali w d
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Speaker 1: I V Detroit reporter Sandra, I want to take a
16:32
Speaker 1: listen to what you obtained by going behind jail house
16:36
Speaker 1: walls to speak to this father. I don't know if
16:40
Speaker 1: he deserves the name father John Skelton. Listen, Remember we
16:45
Speaker 1: weren't allowed to bring any of our cameras inside prison.
16:48
Speaker 1: John says he told the boys they were going to
16:50
Speaker 1: have a better life with a new family who lived
16:53
Speaker 1: on an Amish farm in Ohio along the Indiana border.
16:57
Speaker 1: John says he promised the boys their new family would
17:00
Speaker 1: buy them the farm boots they've been asking for and
17:03
Speaker 1: let them ride on a tractor whenever they wanted. Breaking
17:06
Speaker 1: down in tears for the fourth time during our interview,
17:10
Speaker 1: John said he regrets giving his boys away. The more
17:15
Speaker 1: that I can talk about my boys and share their story,
17:20
Speaker 1: the greater chance that that one person that we are
17:26
Speaker 1: waiting to see our story that knows something, um, the
17:32
Speaker 1: greater chance of them seeing it. Cheryl mccolluman, director of
17:38
Speaker 1: the Cold Case Institute. I mean, this business about taking
17:41
Speaker 1: them and going to Florida, No mom is going to
17:44
Speaker 1: go along with suddenly uprooting the children just because you
17:47
Speaker 1: want to be around all your old friends. I don't
17:50
Speaker 1: believe it. But his story keeps morphing, Cheryl. It keeps morphing,
17:55
Speaker 1: It keeps changing. He keeps adding, you know an element
17:59
Speaker 1: here and there that everybody knows his bogus and if
18:03
Speaker 1: the one thing we also need to mention about his
18:05
Speaker 1: failed suicide attempt. When that happened, he caught a friend
18:09
Speaker 1: to take him to the hospital. He wanted no part
18:13
Speaker 1: of law enforcement. You know, I'm looking at these cell
18:15
Speaker 1: phone tower records, UM am sixty six am. It concerns
18:23
Speaker 1: me deeply because it reminds me of the Susan Powell
18:28
Speaker 1: case Sandra Ali w d I V. Where her husband
18:33
Speaker 1: Josh is out riding around in the snow after midnight,
18:38
Speaker 1: claiming he's taking the boys camping. Susan Powell was never
18:42
Speaker 1: seen alive again, and then later he blew up his
18:46
Speaker 1: home with the boys in it. What is he doing, Sandra,
18:50
Speaker 1: Alie out driving around four twenty nine a m. To
18:54
Speaker 1: sixty six a m. What about other physical evidence? I
18:59
Speaker 1: know about the self phone records, Sandra, What other evidence
19:02
Speaker 1: is there? Were the boys clothing there? Did the home
19:06
Speaker 1: look like there had been some sort of a struggle?
19:08
Speaker 1: What do we know? Well, the home we know Nancy
19:12
Speaker 1: was in complete disarray, and the Fed said when they
19:16
Speaker 1: went in it was unlike anything they had ever seen before.
19:20
Speaker 1: It was trashed from top to bottom. Now John Skelton
19:24
Speaker 1: also claimed he burned a lot of what he called
19:29
Speaker 1: quote unquote evidence. That's what he told me when we
19:31
Speaker 1: talked in prison, But the investigators said they never really
19:35
Speaker 1: saw any evidence that he had burned anything. Um, chords
19:39
Speaker 1: were cut, computers were smashed, furniture was you know, tossed
19:44
Speaker 1: to the ground. Um, we don't know if he took
19:47
Speaker 1: a baseball bat to a lot of stuff, But that's
19:50
Speaker 1: that's what it looked like. Oh my stars, I'm only
19:53
Speaker 1: imagining these little boys five, seven and nine in the
19:57
Speaker 1: middle of all this. And what about the mother, Tanya Zubers.
20:02
Speaker 1: Take a listen things that were glass We're busted. Um.
20:08
Speaker 1: The big curio cabinet was smashed to pieces, along with
20:11
Speaker 1: everything that was inside of it. And then, in a
20:15
Speaker 1: bizarre twist, his story changes yet again. Sandra al A
20:22
Speaker 1: w d I V. What is his latest incarnation? He said,
20:26
Speaker 1: Nancy that he had made prior arrangements when he knew
20:32
Speaker 1: he was no longer going to have any sort of
20:34
Speaker 1: custody whatsoever, no shared custody, no visitation, nothing. He said
20:40
Speaker 1: he made prior arrangements with another family, that's what he's
20:44
Speaker 1: calling it, another family for the boys to go and
20:47
Speaker 1: live a better life on an Amish farm. And he
20:51
Speaker 1: said that those people picked up the boys earlier than
20:57
Speaker 1: he had planned. He said that he had eight arrangements
21:00
Speaker 1: with them, but they came Thanksgiving night at ten o'clock,
21:04
Speaker 1: three people pulled up to his house that he had
21:08
Speaker 1: made prior arrangements, and it was a two women and
21:12
Speaker 1: a man, and he said he watched as they drove
21:16
Speaker 1: off with his three sons and Amish family. Cheryl McCollum,
21:21
Speaker 1: director of the Cold Case Institute, an Amish family. What
21:25
Speaker 1: made that he'd building this thing where that Amish family
21:29
Speaker 1: is not going to have a phone, They're not going
21:30
Speaker 1: to have cameras or internet, so they're gonna be on
21:33
Speaker 1: some farm that you know, nobody has any communication. Wins.
21:37
Speaker 1: It's completely crap. It's vogan. It's a lie that nobody
21:42
Speaker 1: is going to believe, Nancy. Sandra Ali recently interviewed the
21:45
Speaker 1: man that skeleton told detectives had his sons. Mos Gingrich
21:49
Speaker 1: had not been initially identified, but after he was Gingrich
21:53
Speaker 1: visited Skelton and Jail to confront him about it, and
21:57
Speaker 1: this is what he now tells Sandra Alie. Mose grew
22:00
Speaker 1: up Amish. He left the community back in two thousand
22:03
Speaker 1: two and became a TV personality practically overnight. I didn't
22:07
Speaker 1: realize I missed a country that much. Mose and his
22:10
Speaker 1: wife started what he describes as an underground railroad, an
22:14
Speaker 1: escape for Amish children who wanted to leave the old
22:16
Speaker 1: world for the new. We just have a good old
22:21
Speaker 1: open house policy where new kids that leave and need help,
22:25
Speaker 1: uh come in and we and we help him get
22:27
Speaker 1: up and running a safe place, A safe place. By
22:30
Speaker 1: now you're probably wondering how is this man linked to
22:33
Speaker 1: John Skelton or his three missing boys. It took me
22:37
Speaker 1: a while to connect the dots because I was like,
22:38
Speaker 1: how did this guy ever get my name? John Skelton
22:41
Speaker 1: first told investigators he gave Andrew, Alexander, and Tanner away
22:45
Speaker 1: to live with another family where they would be safe.
22:48
Speaker 1: John later told investigator as a man by the name
22:50
Speaker 1: of Mose Gingrich would help find his boys their new home.
22:54
Speaker 1: That detail of John's story hasn't been made public until
22:58
Speaker 1: now he mention my name. So what happened when investigators
23:03
Speaker 1: first track down Mose Gingrich? I had two different routes
23:06
Speaker 1: I could take. I could uh stay secretive about it,
23:11
Speaker 1: not tell one person about it, and crawl under a
23:13
Speaker 1: rock and let this guy control my life. Or I
23:16
Speaker 1: can do what I'm doing. I can set out to
23:19
Speaker 1: prove that I'm innocent. I have nothing to hide. Moses
23:22
Speaker 1: cooperating with the investigation. In fact, in early March, he
23:26
Speaker 1: went to the Bellamy Creek Correctional facility to talk to
23:29
Speaker 1: John face to face. He was pretty shocked to see me.
23:32
Speaker 1: He was completely caught off guard. He had no idea
23:35
Speaker 1: I was coming. I think when he gave the detectives
23:39
Speaker 1: this alibi that he gave these kids to an organization
23:44
Speaker 1: out of Missouri, he thought they might just follow up
23:47
Speaker 1: on this and maybe go interview me, and he'd never
23:51
Speaker 1: hear anything about it again. I don't think he ever
23:53
Speaker 1: once thought that the person he's accusing is going to
23:57
Speaker 1: come sit down and actually talk with him. Did he
23:59
Speaker 1: record nize you? Yeah, he recognized me immediately, most says
24:03
Speaker 1: John Skelton looked uncomfortable, but it was obvious to most.
24:07
Speaker 1: John is a quick thinker. He's head and shoulder smarter
24:12
Speaker 1: than I would have given him credit for. Instead of
24:15
Speaker 1: blurting something out that was like, oh you did that
24:18
Speaker 1: TV show, it took him three seconds to be like,
24:24
Speaker 1: I saw you in a picture. Somebody gave me a
24:28
Speaker 1: picture and he was just I couldn't believe how smooth
24:33
Speaker 1: he was. But I said, ah, I want to talk
24:37
Speaker 1: to you about your three boys. You said your boys
24:41
Speaker 1: were given to an unlisted adoption agency. That agency send
24:47
Speaker 1: him on down the line to me and I said,
24:51
Speaker 1: I want you to know, Mr Skelton, that I never
24:53
Speaker 1: received those three boys. If you did give them to
24:57
Speaker 1: an adoption agency, there was a disconnect between the than me.
25:00
Speaker 1: Not only did I never receive them, but I've never
25:04
Speaker 1: even heard of them until six months ago. And he, uh,
25:10
Speaker 1: he acted just mind blown. Sad tears started coming. He said, well,
25:16
Speaker 1: that was my last hope. That's the only thing I
25:18
Speaker 1: had left. I was always told that once I get
25:21
Speaker 1: out of jail, I can find you, and I can
25:23
Speaker 1: contact you, and you'll be able to tell me where
25:25
Speaker 1: these kids are. We think he'd probably seen this television
25:28
Speaker 1: program and thought, what a perfect alibi to continue this
25:33
Speaker 1: wild goose chase. John Skelton has told himself and the
25:36
Speaker 1: world so many lies and so many falsehoods over the
25:41
Speaker 1: last seven years that he's come to believe most of them.
25:44
Speaker 1: His life's on the line. Once your life is on
25:46
Speaker 1: the line, you're going to do anything, any extreme measures,
25:52
Speaker 1: to the ends of the earth to try to save
25:55
Speaker 1: your own life. To Sandra ali w d I vy,
25:58
Speaker 1: what was his demeanor as he spinning this yarn about
26:01
Speaker 1: an Amish family, you know, Nancy. His demeanor changed a
26:05
Speaker 1: couple of times. I mean, we were there for several hours,
26:07
Speaker 1: so when we initially got there, he he sobbed when
26:12
Speaker 1: he when we first walked in, and he broke down
26:15
Speaker 1: several times during the interview. But I will tell you this, Nancy,
26:19
Speaker 1: as I as I went back and looked through my
26:23
Speaker 1: notes I had taken later, every time I asked John
26:26
Speaker 1: Skelton a very pointed, specific question about the investigation, he
26:32
Speaker 1: would stop and eat, and he would deliberately waste time
26:39
Speaker 1: as I guess the wheels were turning in his head
26:41
Speaker 1: as he was trying to figure out how he would
26:43
Speaker 1: answer my questions. Sandra Alie, that is I mean, I'm
26:47
Speaker 1: fascinated by that, like I would be looking at a
26:51
Speaker 1: cobra in a glass box. But what type of question
26:55
Speaker 1: would you ask to elicit that behavior ready to stop
26:59
Speaker 1: everything and start eating. I mean, I don't even know
27:02
Speaker 1: how many thousands of witnesses I have interviewed or interrogated,
27:07
Speaker 1: direct examed, or cross exam and I watched them very closely.
27:12
Speaker 1: And Cheryl, I remember telling you this, and you laughed
27:15
Speaker 1: when I told you I would at some point try
27:17
Speaker 1: not to even blink when I would watch a person
27:20
Speaker 1: answer my question. And I practiced it over time, so
27:24
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have to blink, because I want to just
27:26
Speaker 1: catch every movement. If they looked away quickly at the question,
27:30
Speaker 1: or they turned their head, or they looked down and
27:32
Speaker 1: they looked up, I did not want to miss a
27:34
Speaker 1: single thing as I examined them and determine in my
27:39
Speaker 1: own mind their veracity, their truth. What do you make, Cheryl,
27:43
Speaker 1: of what Sandra Ali is saying that she had asked
27:46
Speaker 1: him a point of question and he had stop everything
27:48
Speaker 1: and start eating. Fascinating And what he's doing there is
27:51
Speaker 1: I can't talk with a mouthful of food because that
27:54
Speaker 1: would be rude. So we've given himself time to think
27:59
Speaker 1: of an an so that he thinks she's gonna buy.
28:02
Speaker 1: So if she point blank says did you harm your boys?
28:05
Speaker 1: Did you kill your boys? Do you know where your
28:07
Speaker 1: boys are? He's gonna start eating so he doesn't have
28:10
Speaker 1: to answer. Sandra, what were some of the questions you
28:13
Speaker 1: would ask that would make him stop everything and start eating?
28:16
Speaker 1: You said they were pointed? I asked him, Nancy, point blank,
28:20
Speaker 1: did you hurt your boys? Where did you take them?
28:24
Speaker 1: Were they in the van with you that morning when
28:27
Speaker 1: you drove to holiday city, When was the last time
28:31
Speaker 1: you saw them? And he he took a lot of
28:34
Speaker 1: time in answering. Now, if if John Skelton was talking
28:37
Speaker 1: about himself and his you know, anything personal about himself,
28:43
Speaker 1: he you know, he had no problems spending a lot
28:47
Speaker 1: of time talking about himself. But when I specifically asked
28:51
Speaker 1: him about the boys, he would be very, very deliberate
28:55
Speaker 1: in his answer. You know, when when she was asking
28:58
Speaker 1: those questions, I immediately he fired off the answers in
29:01
Speaker 1: my head, Karen, start, when's the last time I saw
29:04
Speaker 1: the twins? What were they doing? What were they wearing?
29:06
Speaker 1: Had I hurt them? I mean all that, I mean,
29:08
Speaker 1: there's an immediate answer firing through my brain. Karen. That
29:12
Speaker 1: is so classic. And I'll tell you something. Nancy and
29:16
Speaker 1: I work with patients and we touch upon a subject
29:20
Speaker 1: that they find unbearable or too much that they can
29:25
Speaker 1: answer it, that it's painful, or they haven't thought about it.
29:30
Speaker 1: They'll change the subject and they'll start talking about something else,
29:34
Speaker 1: or there will be these very long pauses. So he's
29:39
Speaker 1: obviously prevaricating and trying to take time away from the question.
29:46
Speaker 1: He's being asked to figure out what would be the
29:50
Speaker 1: right thing to say right now that will fit the
29:53
Speaker 1: rest of the story that I've come up with. Take
29:56
Speaker 1: a listen to what the Skelton brothers, the three little
29:59
Speaker 1: boys now missing, five, seven, and nine years old. Mom
30:03
Speaker 1: Tanya Zeevers says, the loving carrying sons that I raised
30:10
Speaker 1: to the ages. They don't They don't like Mom to
30:17
Speaker 1: cry and be upset. They want Mom. This is who
30:21
Speaker 1: they know, this is what they want. You know, so
30:25
Speaker 1: I don't because someday we will be back together. I
30:29
Speaker 1: will find them. It may not be until I'm buried,
30:37
Speaker 1: but I will find them. And I don't want them
30:44
Speaker 1: to think that I was just a shell little person
30:48
Speaker 1: in our time apart various angry um who I am? Now?
31:00
Speaker 1: If I could Jess have a minute with him, would
31:07
Speaker 1: you want to talk to him, Tanya? I think so.
31:10
Speaker 1: I want to remind him of his sons and the
31:18
Speaker 1: happy times and all the the things. And one answers
31:24
Speaker 1: as to why you would do this to you our sons,
31:30
Speaker 1: Your sons tomorrow would have the birthday number for my baby.
31:53
Speaker 1: You wonder what do you wonder about? Who would he be?
32:07
Speaker 1: What does he look like? All of them? To Jeremy
32:18
Speaker 1: Allen W. D. I V a Detroit producer. Jeremy, you know,
32:24
Speaker 1: you and Sandra know the physical evidence better than anybody.
32:28
Speaker 1: What do you make of what happened that day? We
32:31
Speaker 1: know a lot because we've talked to investigators, not so much.
32:34
Speaker 1: And as Sandra talked about earlier, the house was just
32:37
Speaker 1: destroyed from top to bottom. Um. And one of the
32:41
Speaker 1: big pieces of evidence that investigators had early on was
32:45
Speaker 1: looking at John's search history on his computer UM, which
32:49
Speaker 1: showed that he had googled um, how can you break
32:53
Speaker 1: a neck with your hands? Oh, my stars, I didn't
32:56
Speaker 1: know that part. That's given me horrible flashbacks to the
33:00
Speaker 1: top Mom Casey Anthony trial, where she had researched net
33:05
Speaker 1: breaking and turning household items into weapons and something else.
33:11
Speaker 1: You just said, Jeremy w D I V. You know
33:14
Speaker 1: if I can. When I leave for the morning, I
33:19
Speaker 1: try to put everything back in place and have everything
33:23
Speaker 1: neat and organized as best as I can before the
33:27
Speaker 1: children come home, because I want them to have stability
33:31
Speaker 1: and a sense of peace and orderliness as they live,
33:36
Speaker 1: not like the house like a cyclone hit it, which
33:40
Speaker 1: you know, it happens when you're a family and everybody's
33:42
Speaker 1: working and trying to get to school and just imagining
33:45
Speaker 1: it's the exact bess Akward opposite of him leaving the
33:51
Speaker 1: home all destroyed and everything broken, like you took a
33:54
Speaker 1: baseball back to it. Back to the computer searches, Jeremy
33:58
Speaker 1: Allen W d Ivy, what do we know about his
34:00
Speaker 1: computer searches. He's the only adult in the home. It
34:03
Speaker 1: had to be him, Yeah, it was it was him,
34:06
Speaker 1: And uh, you know the other searches they found that
34:08
Speaker 1: was very disconcerning was the fact that he searched does
34:11
Speaker 1: rat poison kill humans? Um? And I think Sandra can
34:15
Speaker 1: probably speak a little bit more to that, because you know,
34:18
Speaker 1: they got into that a little bit more. Sandra, alie
34:21
Speaker 1: So and Anthy. I did ask John when we talked
34:24
Speaker 1: in prison about his computer searches. I said, you know,
34:27
Speaker 1: I said, John, how do you even then explain what
34:30
Speaker 1: they found on your computer? And he said, well, what
34:33
Speaker 1: what did they find on my computer? I said, how
34:34
Speaker 1: do you explain rat poison? And he said poison? I've
34:39
Speaker 1: I've never searched for poison on my computer. I've I've
34:43
Speaker 1: never looked that up. And I said, well, what about
34:46
Speaker 1: how to break someone's neck? And he said, he he
34:50
Speaker 1: kind of chuckled a little bit, and then he went
34:53
Speaker 1: into a very long explanation about how he said he
34:58
Speaker 1: and the boys had watched the Karate movie the last
35:01
Speaker 1: night they were together, and that the boys had asked
35:05
Speaker 1: him to look that up because of something they had
35:07
Speaker 1: seen in this karate movie with me. Sandra Ali and
35:10
Speaker 1: Jeremy Allen, both from w D I V. Detroit, who
35:14
Speaker 1: have never let go of this case. They're on it
35:16
Speaker 1: now as strong as ever. Sandra, Alie, what do you
35:20
Speaker 1: make of his latest story that he gave the children
35:25
Speaker 1: over willingly to an Amish family, And, as Cheryl McCollum
35:28
Speaker 1: correctly points out, that would be a way to explain
35:31
Speaker 1: how you can't find them. They don't have a phone
35:34
Speaker 1: that you can't know know where they live. You know
35:36
Speaker 1: that they're out in some communal setting where they can't
35:42
Speaker 1: be uncovered. Sandra explained to me, none of it makes sense, Nancy,
35:48
Speaker 1: none of it makes sense, And John Skelton repeated over
35:52
Speaker 1: and over it wasn't. He kept saying that this wasn't
35:56
Speaker 1: out of anger. I didn't do anything out of an here.
36:00
Speaker 1: I did this because I knew I could no longer
36:04
Speaker 1: be with my boys, and he has no solid explanation.
36:09
Speaker 1: And I think that's what's so frustrating for investigators. It's
36:13
Speaker 1: like the boys vanished into thin air and he's sitting
36:18
Speaker 1: there in prison and he's not not talking. He's not
36:23
Speaker 1: giving anyone anything to go on. Well, what I don't
36:26
Speaker 1: understand is why he could not reveal their location now.
36:31
Speaker 1: And I asked him that. I asked him, I said,
36:33
Speaker 1: you know, give us a name, give us a phone number,
36:35
Speaker 1: give us a location. And you know, he did say
36:40
Speaker 1: that this quote unquote group was supposed to reach out
36:45
Speaker 1: to his family in Jacksonville, Florida, and and show them
36:50
Speaker 1: that the boys were safe, and show them evidence, if
36:54
Speaker 1: that's evidence in pictures, letters, videos, something to show the
37:00
Speaker 1: grandparents who are in Florida that the boys are indeed
37:05
Speaker 1: safe and sound and living on this farm. That evidence
37:10
Speaker 1: has never come to fruition. No one has ever sent
37:13
Speaker 1: his family in Florida anything. His kids are fine. I
37:17
Speaker 1: know this as a grandmother. I have a grandmother's art
37:20
Speaker 1: and I know this. I don't know where they are.
37:22
Speaker 1: If I did, they wouldn't be there. This is his
37:26
Speaker 1: Facebook page and it says I love my wife very much.
37:30
Speaker 1: May God Antonia forgive me Dad. John Skelton claims he
37:34
Speaker 1: was trying to keep his three little boys out of
37:37
Speaker 1: harm's way. How in the world, Sandra ali w d
37:42
Speaker 1: I V Is this keeping them out of harm's way?
37:46
Speaker 1: What I mean? The only one causing harm to them
37:49
Speaker 1: was him, Sandra. His claim is they were being mistreated
37:53
Speaker 1: and abused by their mother. That's his claim. Now, was
37:58
Speaker 1: there was there any evidence to support that? Well, no, no,
38:01
Speaker 1: And and you know, and Jeremy spent a great deal
38:03
Speaker 1: of time talking to the boys mother, Tanya, and you
38:06
Speaker 1: know she'll tell you, police will tell you they never
38:09
Speaker 1: found any claims of abuse. As a matter of fact,
38:11
Speaker 1: the mom speaks directly to that question. Listen to Tanya.
38:16
Speaker 1: That has all been investigated. I was investigated. I was
38:21
Speaker 1: interrogated as well. My house was searched, my computer was searched,
38:28
Speaker 1: all of my stuff was gone through as well. They
38:34
Speaker 1: were interviews with school teachers, school administrators, church people, friends,
38:47
Speaker 1: all kinds of people, um, school administrators and teachers who
38:54
Speaker 1: are trained to see abuse in children, who said to
39:01
Speaker 1: the police, I have never seen more children more loved
39:08
Speaker 1: and cared for by their mother. Those children were not abused.
39:14
Speaker 1: There is no way, And anyone who truly knows me
39:21
Speaker 1: knows that my children come first, always have, always will.
39:33
Speaker 1: My dream job was to be a mom, and within
39:40
Speaker 1: the first year of getting married, I was pregnant for
39:43
Speaker 1: my first child. And this year marks thirty years that
39:48
Speaker 1: I've been a mom and it is the greatest job
39:51
Speaker 1: in the world. And now I get to be a
39:53
Speaker 1: grandma too. But to say that I abused my son's
40:03
Speaker 1: kills me to Jeremy Allen w d I V you know,
40:08
Speaker 1: I have watched the mother. I have studied her carefully.
40:12
Speaker 1: I don't believe she would touch a hair on their head.
40:14
Speaker 1: I don't think there's any way this mom would have
40:16
Speaker 1: hurt her little children. I mean, she says her dream
40:19
Speaker 1: job was to be a mom, and I believe her. Yeah,
40:21
Speaker 1: I mean, you get the impression when you're talking to Tanya,
40:24
Speaker 1: especially face to face, that you know there was nowhere
40:28
Speaker 1: in the world she'd rather be than in her home
40:30
Speaker 1: with her children. UM. I've always felt that that. Yeah,
40:34
Speaker 1: she was genuine and honest when she talked about her
40:36
Speaker 1: love for her children, So UM, to me, it doesn't
40:40
Speaker 1: seem like a possibility, um that she was abusing her children. UM.
40:44
Speaker 1: Even though obviously John and John's family would tell you otherwise. Well,
40:47
Speaker 1: I mean, he's the one, Sandra Ali not telling us
40:50
Speaker 1: where the children are. So what's his excuse for not
40:52
Speaker 1: telling us where they are? Now? I mean, you'd rather
40:55
Speaker 1: sit behind bars and rot as we wait to find
40:59
Speaker 1: out where they are. And I don't either, Nancy. And
41:02
Speaker 1: he did say I'm I'm gonna sit here and serve
41:05
Speaker 1: time anyway, he said a couple of times, which I
41:09
Speaker 1: found very interesting. He kept saying, you know, I'm guilty,
41:12
Speaker 1: and I said, you're guilty, and he said, yeah, I'm guilty, um,
41:16
Speaker 1: for I'm serving my my debt to society because I
41:22
Speaker 1: did not have custody of the boys, and so I'm
41:24
Speaker 1: guilty of unlawful imprisonment. And I said, well, John, why
41:29
Speaker 1: don't you work out some sort of deal? I said,
41:32
Speaker 1: why don't you tell everyone where the boys are? Tell
41:37
Speaker 1: investigators where the boys are, work out some sort of deal.
41:40
Speaker 1: Everyone you're saying they're safe. Everyone just wants to know
41:44
Speaker 1: they're safe and see them again and be with them again.
41:47
Speaker 1: And he said, why would I Why would I tell
41:50
Speaker 1: them where they are? Why would I do that? They're
41:52
Speaker 1: just gonna meet me, he said at the prison door,
41:56
Speaker 1: and get me for something else. So I might as
42:00
Speaker 1: well just continue sitting here and serving my time. To
42:02
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Institute, where are they, Cheryl, Nancy,
42:09
Speaker 1: I agree with the sheriff, this is not going to
42:11
Speaker 1: have a good ending. Um. It's interesting to me that
42:14
Speaker 1: he mentioned to Miss Ali Tempium. Any time I suspect
42:18
Speaker 1: gives me a time, I highlight it. So from ten
42:22
Speaker 1: pm to four nine is six hours where something bad
42:27
Speaker 1: happened in that home. And then between the four thirty
42:31
Speaker 1: and six forty five when his phone is actually moving,
42:34
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean it wasn't moving before. He could have
42:36
Speaker 1: left it at the house, and he was moving without
42:39
Speaker 1: the phones in that van, so they could literally be anywhere.
42:43
Speaker 1: But I do not believe their lies. Sando Alie with
42:46
Speaker 1: me along with Jeremy Allen. Just recently bone fragments were
42:54
Speaker 1: uncovered and my heart just sunk. I just was so
42:58
Speaker 1: afraid it was a skeleton. Boys. What became of that discovery, Sandra, Well, Nancy,
43:04
Speaker 1: you know when we heard about that, it was you know,
43:06
Speaker 1: sheer panic here as well in the newsroom, and everyone
43:11
Speaker 1: initially thought, well, maybe maybe this is it. This is
43:14
Speaker 1: the day the boys bones are discovered? And uh, you
43:19
Speaker 1: know they've done DNA testing, extensive testing, and they've just
43:25
Speaker 1: ruled in fact that these bones, this discovery has no
43:31
Speaker 1: no match to Andrew, Alexander or Tanner Skelton. Well, I
43:36
Speaker 1: thank God for that. But in another way, Cheryl McCollum,
43:41
Speaker 1: I mean, when I look back on how I felt
43:44
Speaker 1: when I learned that their bones have been found and
43:47
Speaker 1: I was praying it wasn't the Skelton boys. Now I
43:52
Speaker 1: don't know if I should pray for the discovery of
43:56
Speaker 1: their bodies so we can know what happened and they
43:59
Speaker 1: can be bare eat. I mean, Cheryl, do you really
44:01
Speaker 1: believe they were living with some Amish family. That's crazy talk,
44:05
Speaker 1: That is insane. And Nancy, here's the thing. When the
44:08
Speaker 1: bones were found in that shed, John Skelton himself said
44:13
Speaker 1: those aren't the boys. Well, how the hell would he
44:16
Speaker 1: know that? He doesn't know where they are. If he
44:18
Speaker 1: gave them to some family, the family could have harned them.
44:21
Speaker 1: The only way that he knows their remains were not
44:23
Speaker 1: in that shed is if he knows where their remains are,
44:27
Speaker 1: and he does. Sandra Ali, what are your thoughts, where
44:31
Speaker 1: are the boys and what can we do to bring
44:34
Speaker 1: them home? You know, Nancy, I wish I knew, and
44:38
Speaker 1: and I see why investigators and everyone involved in this
44:42
Speaker 1: case and in this this poor family and this poor
44:46
Speaker 1: grieving mother. You, when you're this close to this case,
44:49
Speaker 1: do you realize do you understand why everyone is so
44:52
Speaker 1: frustrated and so heartbroken? This has gone on for so
44:57
Speaker 1: long and we're no closer to solving the mystery. It
45:02
Speaker 1: seems that as time goes on, the mystery just deepens,
45:06
Speaker 1: which is what makes us even more difficult. When you
45:09
Speaker 1: say the mystery deepens, what do you mean by that?
45:11
Speaker 1: And what was the single most disturbing thing? Skelton said
45:14
Speaker 1: behind bars, you know, there was so much, he said,
45:17
Speaker 1: I will tell you. You know, we just talked about
45:19
Speaker 1: the bones. One of the first things he talked about
45:23
Speaker 1: when even before I sat down, was the bones. And
45:27
Speaker 1: he he said, um, he re rolled, he rolled his eyes,
45:33
Speaker 1: and he said, I said, what did you think when
45:36
Speaker 1: you saw that on the news? And he said, oh,
45:39
Speaker 1: those those aren't my boys, Uh, you know. And he
45:43
Speaker 1: even talked to family members and said, oh, I knew
45:47
Speaker 1: after I saw those reports, I knew those weren't my boys, Nancy,
45:51
Speaker 1: I've been doing a podcast on this for since May
45:54
Speaker 1: of two thousand seventeen, and uh, you know, we've gone
45:57
Speaker 1: more in depth on this story than anyone ever has.
46:00
Speaker 1: And in fact, we've talked to John's parents, um, which
46:02
Speaker 1: nobody has done for years, and they um seemed to
46:06
Speaker 1: blindly follow John's words. And that was disconcerting to me
46:10
Speaker 1: because I think when when people are pointing the finger
46:13
Speaker 1: at John's family, I think it's important to remember that
46:16
Speaker 1: they all regard John as um kind of this intellect,
46:20
Speaker 1: the superior mind, and their family. So when they talk
46:25
Speaker 1: and they tell the story about what John told them,
46:27
Speaker 1: I believe them that they think they're telling the truth.
46:30
Speaker 1: Now I don't believe that John's telling the truth. So basically,
46:34
Speaker 1: you're getting John's story through the parents. But just remember
46:38
Speaker 1: that a lot of those people in John's family are
46:40
Speaker 1: victims as well. I'm looking at the pictures of the
46:43
Speaker 1: little boys, Um, they're beautiful, Andrew, Alexander and Tanner. They're
46:50
Speaker 1: old enough now if they were alive, they would have
46:53
Speaker 1: found a way to let people know if they were.
46:56
Speaker 1: That's probably going to say. If three little boys all
46:59
Speaker 1: of a sudden well, the next door to you, or
47:01
Speaker 1: in your school or in your community, you would know it.
47:04
Speaker 1: Nobody has reported it. There's no way a seven year
47:08
Speaker 1: old and a nine year old are not going to
47:10
Speaker 1: talk about where they used to live or their old
47:13
Speaker 1: house or their mama. There's no chance these children are alive. Yeah,
47:19
Speaker 1: that they would try and get in touch with their mother,
47:22
Speaker 1: You know that, Nancy. They would, they would, they would
47:25
Speaker 1: do anything possible to try and reach out. I mean
47:29
Speaker 1: in the third grade, of course. Nancy. John Skelton's family,
47:33
Speaker 1: his father, mother, and sister have a reply to that. Well,
47:37
Speaker 1: I've I've thought about that. I questioned that too. Why
47:41
Speaker 1: hasn't them boys? Did anybody ever think maybe they're happy
47:47
Speaker 1: where they're at? The Marines? Police are there's no way
47:50
Speaker 1: you can hide children. Well, I pulled up a hundred
47:53
Speaker 1: eighty six cases of underground children that have been hidden.
47:57
Speaker 1: A few years back, I was feeling down here in Jackson,
48:00
Speaker 1: was filling up on my other shock for fuel and
48:03
Speaker 1: I'm just having it back there and gentlemen come up
48:07
Speaker 1: behind me and you asked me not to turn around
48:09
Speaker 1: and said, I know your plight and your sons are okay, really,
48:14
Speaker 1: And I just thank you, and that was it. That
48:18
Speaker 1: was it. He didn't turn around. It pops in my
48:23
Speaker 1: head all the time. Why haven't they contacted somebody? Right?
48:28
Speaker 1: Maybe they're happy that John gave the kids to somebody. Yes,
48:33
Speaker 1: you do believe that, and you believe those kids are
48:35
Speaker 1: safe with you whoever that group is, Yes, confident that
48:39
Speaker 1: your son is telling the truth. And I think that's
48:43
Speaker 1: the important thing in all this is I think everyone's
48:45
Speaker 1: waiting to find out if John's telling the truth. Right.
48:48
Speaker 1: Of course, they are intending it's just gonna who's gonna
48:52
Speaker 1: get the last laugh. So you believe that to this day.
48:55
Speaker 1: Of those ways, I believe those boys are fine. You
48:58
Speaker 1: believe that or do you want to believe? No? I
49:00
Speaker 1: believe it. I believe it full in my heart. I
49:04
Speaker 1: believe it totally one percent that them boys are buying.
49:10
Speaker 1: Is there a victim or is it just the boys
49:12
Speaker 1: that were victims in a kind of a messed up
49:15
Speaker 1: household For a little while, I think only the boys
49:20
Speaker 1: are the victims because they've lost, they've they're protected, but
49:32
Speaker 1: they're missing out on two grandparents that love them in,
49:36
Speaker 1: an aunt and a daddy that loves them dearly. And
49:42
Speaker 1: I'm sure Daniel loves them too. I mean, you know
49:49
Speaker 1: everyone's a victim. I guess there is a sixty thousand
49:53
Speaker 1: dollar reward the tip line five one seven four eight
49:59
Speaker 1: zero War Repeat five one seven four five eight seven
50:04
Speaker 1: one zero four. Karen Stark, Cheryl McCullen, Jeremy Allen, Sandra Ali,
50:13
Speaker 1: thank you, Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off, goodbye friend
50:21
Speaker 1: ye