Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Zenvanz Founders Bryan and Jen Danger on Overcoming Fear and Living Your Dreams

Transcript

Zenvanz Founders Bryan and Jen Danger on Overcoming Fear and Living Your Dreams · The Overland Journal Podcast

0:01
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. This is Ashley,
0:06
Speaker 1: Senior Editor, Overland Journal and Expedition Portal, and I'm here
0:10
Speaker 1: at Overland Expo West in Flagstaff, Arizona, hanging out in
0:14
Speaker 1: the Black Series trailer Slash podcast vehicle. And i have
0:18
Speaker 1: two really special guests here today, Brian and Jen Danger.
0:22
Speaker 1: I'm so excited to speak with you guys because you
0:25
Speaker 1: were one of the couples that inspired Richard and I
0:28
Speaker 1: to drive the Pan American Highway and we read your
0:30
Speaker 1: blog back in the day. You guys have traveled a lot,
0:33
Speaker 1: you have a lot of cool experiences, and you've contributed
0:36
Speaker 1: to the community so much, so I'm so excited to
0:38
Speaker 1: have you guys.
0:38
Speaker 2: Welcome.
0:39
Speaker 3: Thank you ash y Ah, You're so sweet and special.
0:44
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1:24
Speaker 1: You guys started in a sixty seven Volkswagen bus.
1:27
Speaker 2: A combe a combe.
1:29
Speaker 1: And you redid the interior a little bit, a little bit.
1:31
Speaker 1: And your background is in uh Ran, right, So that
1:35
Speaker 1: influenced architecture and design perfect, and that influenced the interior
1:40
Speaker 1: a lot, a lot.
1:41
Speaker 4: How So it should have been simple, should have been.
1:43
Speaker 1: Easy, as it always should be.
1:45
Speaker 4: As it turns out, I don't do simple and easy. Well,
1:47
Speaker 4: so we spent forever designing and forever building. And at
1:52
Speaker 4: the point, to be fair, we were building with battery
1:54
Speaker 4: powered tools down in old dirt road in Vancouver, BC,
1:57
Speaker 4: And so we'd wait till five o'clock where we got
1:59
Speaker 4: off work, and we'd run out as fast as we
2:01
Speaker 4: could instead of saw hours at the tool. And you know,
2:03
Speaker 4: I think we got like an hour to an hour
2:05
Speaker 4: and a half before it got dark, right, raining. Yeah,
2:08
Speaker 4: So it took a long I think a year and
2:09
Speaker 4: a half.
2:10
Speaker 2: Maybe our built took Yeah, we still had corporate jobs.
2:12
Speaker 2: So it was a side thing that we were building
2:16
Speaker 2: something to escape in the future.
2:19
Speaker 1: Amazing, What were you doing? What were your corporate jobs?
2:21
Speaker 4: Do we have to talk about that? No, sound so dirty?
2:24
Speaker 4: Oh jobs? Yeah, I know.
2:26
Speaker 2: Bri was a consultant for education for software for He
2:32
Speaker 2: was pretty great at his job. I worked for outdoor brand.
2:36
Speaker 2: I was okay at my job, but I worked at
2:38
Speaker 2: really cool companies.
2:40
Speaker 1: Nice.
2:41
Speaker 2: So both of us had jobs that other people really
2:44
Speaker 2: kind of dream about, but we were not feeling it right.
2:48
Speaker 2: We were looking for something different for us.
2:51
Speaker 1: And how did you decide that this project was.
2:54
Speaker 4: The thing that was all her, that was one hundred
2:56
Speaker 4: percent her. I was on the type AOC like I
3:00
Speaker 4: had to have the desk job and have the security
3:03
Speaker 4: and all. Luckily I fell in love with the organ
3:05
Speaker 4: hippie next door, and so she was all about the
3:07
Speaker 4: happiness and the freedom and running away. And I think
3:09
Speaker 4: we just got to the point where I actually thought
3:12
Speaker 4: she was going to go without me if I didn't
3:14
Speaker 4: get busy and get ready to go. And so funny
3:16
Speaker 4: it is, well I who knew at the time of
3:18
Speaker 4: the design project for me, I think became the ideology
3:21
Speaker 4: of the vision of that future thing that men we
3:24
Speaker 4: could go and I failed, and we aborted a couple
3:26
Speaker 4: of times, but we finally pulled trigger and said this
3:29
Speaker 4: is good enough, it'll work, and we're going to go.
3:31
Speaker 2: It started as what if we just like quit our
3:35
Speaker 2: jobs and just go camping for like a year. We
3:39
Speaker 2: chose Mexico because we'd been there a couple of times.
3:42
Speaker 2: In Mexico's amazing simple and it's easy and it's affordable.
3:46
Speaker 2: I mean really that's where it started. We're like, okay,
3:48
Speaker 2: let's do one year.
3:49
Speaker 4: But one year man, five years of planning and downsizing
3:52
Speaker 4: and purging belongings and saving money, and I mean, it's funny.
3:55
Speaker 4: We thought we were just trying to go do the vacation, right,
3:58
Speaker 4: But honestly, looking back, those were the years I think
4:01
Speaker 4: we did all the work that really made the difference. Right,
4:03
Speaker 4: Those those things, well they seemed insignificant, actually were the
4:06
Speaker 4: things they.
4:06
Speaker 1: Were, right. I think you see people on the road
4:08
Speaker 1: and you're like, wow, that's so amazing and they're so free,
4:12
Speaker 1: but you don't necessarily see all the preparation and the
4:15
Speaker 1: sweat and the hard work and the tears and everything
4:18
Speaker 1: that happens before that, because you know, you're seeing the
4:21
Speaker 1: grand adventure.
4:22
Speaker 2: There was definitely a leap that we didn't know where
4:26
Speaker 2: we were going to end up. We were like, let's
4:29
Speaker 2: do this, but not without knowing how it's going to
4:32
Speaker 2: end up or work out, or if we're going to
4:35
Speaker 2: like it. Even maybe we want to stay in corporate
4:38
Speaker 2: America working, but we didn't think we did. But we
4:42
Speaker 2: were open to the fact that, you know, there is healthcare,
4:44
Speaker 2: there is community there, that's what everyone else surround us
4:48
Speaker 2: is doing. Maybe that let's just try this thing and
4:51
Speaker 2: then see where we feel at the end.
4:54
Speaker 4: I honestly thought it was horrible idea.
4:55
Speaker 1: We're the words of persuasion.
4:57
Speaker 4: Jen Oh, she's very convincing, mostly things she was going
5:00
Speaker 4: to go with somebody else.
5:01
Speaker 2: I think, No, I never said that you felt that
5:06
Speaker 2: the words of persuasion weren't nature unset sunrises, jumped in
5:11
Speaker 2: the ocean.
5:12
Speaker 4: She's a very she's persuading me right now.
5:15
Speaker 1: I'm like, yes.
5:17
Speaker 4: I think at some point I was so stubborn that
5:20
Speaker 4: I was like, you know what, we'll just do what
5:22
Speaker 4: she wants. We'll save the money, we'll get ready, we'll
5:24
Speaker 4: go and at the end of two years, because I
5:25
Speaker 4: think we thought we had saved enough for a year
5:27
Speaker 4: and a half to two years in Mexico, where we
5:29
Speaker 4: know it is cheap, then I can actually say the
5:31
Speaker 4: words I told you so, and that'd be so awesome.
5:32
Speaker 4: It turns out, I mean, what was supposed to be
5:34
Speaker 4: a year and a half is now ten years later,
5:36
Speaker 4: which is a mind boggle. And she was one hundred
5:39
Speaker 4: percent right every time, and that's actually a little frustrating,
5:43
Speaker 4: but we won't talk about that here, but every single
5:45
Speaker 4: time she was absolutely it was. It's so amazing that
5:49
Speaker 4: once you make that hard leap for the right reasons
5:52
Speaker 4: of freedom and happiness and ocean and all those things,
5:55
Speaker 4: everything else just kind of starts to work out. Right, Yes,
5:58
Speaker 4: these new things that I didn't know we're possible. Where
6:01
Speaker 4: suddenly we're more aware and opportunities are flying by that
6:05
Speaker 4: we were just too busy to notice before, much less
6:08
Speaker 4: to grab onto.
6:09
Speaker 2: As you like, go after something that you are dreaming
6:13
Speaker 2: up that you think is in a silo, you realize
6:16
Speaker 2: other people are dreaming the same thing or they have
6:19
Speaker 2: done the same thing, and it's incredible, like once you
6:22
Speaker 2: start going down that path, things start opening and you
6:27
Speaker 2: see things that were always there. But you didn't see
6:29
Speaker 2: them before. It's pretty incredible.
6:32
Speaker 1: Were there any people that you saw that were doing
6:34
Speaker 1: this that inspired you?
6:36
Speaker 4: Very very few, sadly. Yeah. I mean social media wasn't
6:39
Speaker 4: really around yet. I guess there was some Facebook. I
6:43
Speaker 4: scoured looking for blogs. I mean, I was desperate for
6:46
Speaker 4: somebody to just say it's okay and we survived. Like
6:49
Speaker 4: that's all I need. I just need some kind of nugget. Yes,
6:53
Speaker 4: I think Bumfuzzle was maybe the one that was out
6:55
Speaker 4: there that had a blog. Yeah. Oddly enough, you know,
6:58
Speaker 4: our first vehicle was sixty seven and Combe. They also
7:01
Speaker 4: had had traveled in a Volkswagen, so we stumbled upon
7:04
Speaker 4: them at some point. Ironically enough, they also spend time
7:07
Speaker 4: in a boat, which we would get to later. I
7:09
Speaker 4: don't know if we'll have enough hours to get to that.
7:11
Speaker 4: Here we will, And so they were like the one
7:15
Speaker 4: blog that we could find. Once we were on the
7:17
Speaker 4: road and we were looking for more detailed information about say,
7:20
Speaker 4: border crossings and others. We started to find a few others.
7:24
Speaker 1: Nice.
7:25
Speaker 4: But I think you guys remember this story. I mean
7:26
Speaker 4: we didn't. We didn't know that overlending was a word
7:30
Speaker 4: right time. We didn't know that van life didn't even
7:32
Speaker 4: exist as a hashtag. We just literally wanted freedom, and
7:36
Speaker 4: the beaches of Mexico were our vision, and so we're
7:39
Speaker 4: that's enough and we'll do that. And then somehow that
7:41
Speaker 4: turned into you know, continuing south through Central America and
7:45
Speaker 4: we're just going to keep driving and they're like, oh, wait,
7:47
Speaker 4: a dairying gap, Like what's the gap? We don't know
7:49
Speaker 4: what that is. I guess we're not going to drive
7:51
Speaker 4: all the way there, and so we just kept learning
7:53
Speaker 4: as we go, which I guess is all we really do.
7:56
Speaker 4: But now there weren't much right There wasn't There wasn't
7:59
Speaker 4: a lot. And to this day I still feel, I
8:01
Speaker 4: guess somehow indebted to Jen for freeing me and for
8:05
Speaker 4: saving my life. And so I still want to share.
8:07
Speaker 4: And we don't really know what that is often because
8:09
Speaker 4: we hate microphones and camera but I do feel somehow
8:13
Speaker 4: like we have to still share that because when we
8:15
Speaker 4: left there just weren't there weren't a lot of options
8:18
Speaker 4: for us to like speak to or listen to or
8:21
Speaker 4: like go throw host to and be like thank you
8:23
Speaker 4: for telling us it was okay.
8:25
Speaker 1: Totally DoD I think one of the cool things about
8:28
Speaker 1: your blog is that I felt like it was it
8:30
Speaker 1: is not was is very honest, and it was a
8:34
Speaker 1: very like real world perspective. It wasn't glorified. It was like,
8:38
Speaker 1: these are the emotions we're going through, this is what
8:40
Speaker 1: we're doing, These are the struggles we're having, These are
8:43
Speaker 1: the epic moments we're having, and we really I remember
8:46
Speaker 1: being at home and Richard introduced me to it and
8:48
Speaker 1: we were both like, this is really cool. This is
8:51
Speaker 1: a really real blog. This is like we felt like
8:54
Speaker 1: we were with you in a way because it was
8:56
Speaker 1: like that. It was very honest and real. So yeah,
8:59
Speaker 1: I was very interesting.
9:00
Speaker 2: When Brian was writing the blog, it was the idea
9:04
Speaker 2: of it was for us when we're seventy years old
9:08
Speaker 2: and our memories start starting to fail and we're drinking
9:11
Speaker 2: nice tea on a front porch somewhere, we can remember
9:14
Speaker 2: all the things that we experienced. That's that was the
9:16
Speaker 2: intention of the blog. Because nobody really had blogs. They
9:19
Speaker 2: had blogs for their family or for you know, it
9:22
Speaker 2: wasn't really uh, let's share it with the world yet
9:25
Speaker 2: sort of time. I remember like when Brian said, you
9:29
Speaker 2: know what, actually, this is really therapeutic for me. As
9:32
Speaker 2: I'm evolving, as I'm moving from this like super efficient
9:37
Speaker 2: lifestyle where it's all about productivity and what you know,
9:41
Speaker 2: what's my next move and things like that. That sort
9:44
Speaker 2: of that was the world that we lived in. Now
9:46
Speaker 2: it's like, Okay, I didn't have anything to do today
9:49
Speaker 2: but make sure that I ate and drink water and exercised.
9:53
Speaker 2: That was my day.
9:55
Speaker 4: And it was the worst date. It was so stressful.
9:59
Speaker 4: Looking back, it was just therapy. Like I I didn't
10:02
Speaker 4: know at the time, but there are these things called journals.
10:04
Speaker 4: I could have just written in a journal and it
10:06
Speaker 4: would have.
10:06
Speaker 2: Been instead of posting it, I don't have.
10:08
Speaker 4: To post it to the world.
10:10
Speaker 1: Thank you for doing so. No, I appreciate it. That's great.
10:15
Speaker 4: The biggest regrets ever, like I don't just write a journal, Brian,
10:17
Speaker 4: it so much better.
10:21
Speaker 1: I love it. So the Coombe Beautiful project, I want
10:25
Speaker 1: to know more about, like how your design came together
10:29
Speaker 1: to form that project, and what kind of materials you used,
10:32
Speaker 1: and what was the vision and what was the inspiration
10:34
Speaker 1: for it, because you guys got it.
10:35
Speaker 4: I think that's stupidity. Mostly. I mean, we we figure
10:39
Speaker 4: out maybe sixty nine square feed the entire van much
10:42
Speaker 4: less the actual living quarters, and so we were like, oh, yeah,
10:44
Speaker 4: we're going to entertain and play games. We had these
10:47
Speaker 4: visions of playing Katan with friends, and so we tried
10:49
Speaker 4: to build like a lounge that converted into a bed.
10:52
Speaker 4: It was going to be awesome, you know, but I
10:53
Speaker 4: didn't know any that we'd never done any right. We
10:55
Speaker 4: slept intense and backpacked, but that was it. Built it,
10:59
Speaker 4: and there wasn't enough time to redo it. So we
11:01
Speaker 4: just had to go and so we we literally, you know,
11:04
Speaker 4: we built it. We moved into it, put all the
11:07
Speaker 4: rest of our belongings, even after five years of downside,
11:09
Speaker 4: and we're like, oh, there's no room for the dog
11:11
Speaker 4: or us, and so we pulled under a canopy and
11:13
Speaker 4: had to get rid of half of that stuff that
11:15
Speaker 4: we thought was important. And then, you know, the first
11:17
Speaker 4: night we made the bed, I laid down and once
11:19
Speaker 4: I added the pellow, it was literally the dimensions of
11:22
Speaker 4: my body. There was not enough root. And that was
11:24
Speaker 4: with a cabinet that opened so my feet would stick
11:26
Speaker 4: into the cabinet. There's nothing left in that. And so
11:29
Speaker 4: we lived the next several years in that van with
11:32
Speaker 4: two of us and a sixty nine pound dog and
11:34
Speaker 4: we didn't fit. I mean, we didn't fit for one day,
11:36
Speaker 4: but we just made it work right, and so when
11:38
Speaker 4: one of us rolled over the other one after rollover,
11:41
Speaker 4: one could sleep flat, the other had to be on
11:42
Speaker 4: their side, and both of us kind of just gave
11:44
Speaker 4: the dog whatever she wanted. We're like karma, you get
11:46
Speaker 4: it all, and we'll just be uncomforted. I mean, it
11:49
Speaker 4: was horrible. All the things we thought were important were
11:51
Speaker 4: absolutely wrong. And you know, we redesigned not necessarily that van,
11:55
Speaker 4: but all of our other vans so many times over
11:57
Speaker 4: the years, and it was all just based on what
12:00
Speaker 4: we did wrong the last time, and so we'd start
12:02
Speaker 4: over every time based upon what was wrong, and you know,
12:05
Speaker 4: you start to get better. But it was so bad.
12:08
Speaker 4: It was so bad.
12:09
Speaker 2: Well you say horrible, but in the moment, we were
12:11
Speaker 2: like feeling high as can be because we're like every
12:16
Speaker 2: day's an adventure. We're like reinventing ourselves literally, trying to
12:21
Speaker 2: figure out what we want to do next, with no agenda,
12:25
Speaker 2: just how are we feeling, checking in with ourselves, And
12:28
Speaker 2: for me, it was pretty incredible. I felt free, really
12:31
Speaker 2: free for the first time maybe my entire life. Except
12:35
Speaker 2: for maybe when I was five or six and just
12:36
Speaker 2: playing with weeds and bumblebees and you know, grasshoppers. Yeah,
12:41
Speaker 2: but Bride did go through an evolution, so a.
12:43
Speaker 4: Couple of them.
12:44
Speaker 2: Yeah.
12:45
Speaker 4: I asked in what her luxury item was. I think
12:47
Speaker 4: Survivor was big at the time. I was one luxury item.
12:50
Speaker 4: She's like, I need ice ic. I need a couple
12:52
Speaker 4: of ice cubes for a cocktail at the end of
12:54
Speaker 4: the day. And oddly enough, we have built several vans
12:58
Speaker 4: now around the idea of just having like if we
13:00
Speaker 4: have ice, were okay, everybody has ice, We're not okay,
13:03
Speaker 4: Like that's our.
13:04
Speaker 2: That's the line, right, Yeah, what's your life?
13:07
Speaker 4: Anything else mine?
13:08
Speaker 2: Yeah? Comfortable bed?
13:11
Speaker 4: I think Jen is. I don't know, I've never thought
13:15
Speaker 4: about it.
13:15
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, well next time we see you.
13:18
Speaker 4: I mean I would like to say Wi fi, but
13:20
Speaker 4: we never have that. That's not clearly not the luxury.
13:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the dream, that's the future.
13:25
Speaker 4: I'll get back to you.
13:26
Speaker 1: So how long did you spend on the road in
13:30
Speaker 1: your kombe?
13:30
Speaker 2: So we left Vancouver, BC. We did about a year
13:33
Speaker 2: and a half down to Panama and then we decided
13:36
Speaker 2: to or Costa Rica. Actually we dipped into Panama, but
13:40
Speaker 2: we left the van in Costa Rica. We flew home
13:43
Speaker 2: to Oregon to see some friends, and we thought we'd
13:46
Speaker 2: spend a month, and we realized we really love the
13:49
Speaker 2: Pacific Northwest. Our time in Mexico and Central America has
13:53
Speaker 2: been like transforming. We feel different. Our friends are having
13:56
Speaker 2: kids and we don't have kids. Yeah, and our you know,
14:01
Speaker 2: dogs being reunited with dogs that she grew up with
14:04
Speaker 2: and like silly things like that, and we're drinking wine
14:07
Speaker 2: and playing games on front porches with our loved ones
14:10
Speaker 2: and we're like, oh, this is what's really fueling us
14:13
Speaker 2: right now.
14:14
Speaker 1: It changes.
14:15
Speaker 2: Yeah.
14:16
Speaker 1: The cool thing about that, you guys, is you've pivoted
14:19
Speaker 1: based on what feels right. And I see that that
14:22
Speaker 1: is that felt like home to you.
14:23
Speaker 2: That is just one hundred percent well said. So we
14:26
Speaker 2: had won an award for like being like nomadic for
14:29
Speaker 2: a really long time or whatever, and but we're like, oh,
14:31
Speaker 2: this is crazy, because what we want right now is
14:34
Speaker 2: to like be in this neighborhood where our loved ones
14:37
Speaker 2: are three blocks that way and two miles that way
14:40
Speaker 2: and we can walk. We are going to do that
14:43
Speaker 2: for a little bit and following our heart. I think
14:46
Speaker 2: came really easy for us because it sort of reinforced
14:50
Speaker 2: like what we're looking for is happiness, peace, balance, joy,
14:56
Speaker 2: feel like we're really living our true so else not
15:01
Speaker 2: like do we have a goal to accomplish or so
15:03
Speaker 2: we stayed in Oregon for that a year before we
15:07
Speaker 2: went back and got our bus and we brought it
15:10
Speaker 2: back to the Pacific Northwest.
15:12
Speaker 1: And did you have a big design project? Was that
15:14
Speaker 1: when that happened? Yes, tell us about that.
15:17
Speaker 4: Now it did? We?
15:18
Speaker 1: Yeah?
15:18
Speaker 4: Oddly enough, we rented a house because our house was
15:20
Speaker 4: rented house. We rented a say a house, a tiny
15:23
Speaker 4: condo two blocks from home. And there's that weird feeling.
15:26
Speaker 4: I'm in my neighborhood and I got my friends, but
15:28
Speaker 4: I'm renting a home and I have no furniture, so
15:30
Speaker 4: it's like an inflatable mattress on the floor and to
15:33
Speaker 4: camp chairs. And we walked by our house and see
15:35
Speaker 4: people there that are happy. And so one night we
15:37
Speaker 4: woke up and we're like, oh my god, like our
15:39
Speaker 4: garage is completely onion, and so what if we just
15:42
Speaker 4: moved into the garage so they can keep paying the mortgage?
15:44
Speaker 4: And somehow that turned into realizing that's actually legal now
15:48
Speaker 4: and the world has changed and eccexor dwelling units are
15:51
Speaker 4: a thing. And the idea was just pull the combe
15:53
Speaker 4: in and have a toilet and have a sink in
15:54
Speaker 4: the corner, and good.
15:56
Speaker 2: An oven so we could have nachos and pizza whenever
15:59
Speaker 2: we wanted.
16:00
Speaker 4: You do sell that very nice, and so it started
16:03
Speaker 4: very simply right, and we like, we'd already spent most
16:06
Speaker 4: of our money driving south, and so I spent the
16:08
Speaker 4: rest of that money building this garage out into kind
16:11
Speaker 4: of a tiny home, a place that you know, at
16:14
Speaker 4: some point we just realized we might have to live
16:16
Speaker 4: here until we're ninety, like if we don't find other jobs,
16:19
Speaker 4: like this is all we might get. And so the
16:21
Speaker 4: design room went kind of nuts and spent the rest
16:24
Speaker 4: of our travel money and built a home out of
16:26
Speaker 4: a four hundred and eighty square foot garage.
16:29
Speaker 2: The shower had two shower heads, and it was gigantic
16:32
Speaker 2: and it was so spa like, and it's in this
16:35
Speaker 2: little tiny it's you pitsy garage renovation, which is hilarious.
16:39
Speaker 4: It's funny how priorities change, you know, like you don't
16:42
Speaker 4: get a real shower for two years and you're like, okay,
16:44
Speaker 4: dual showerheads and four hundred and eighty square feet, suddenly
16:47
Speaker 4: it seem important. But yeah, we did that, and suddenly
16:50
Speaker 4: we're like, okay, now we have no money. We have
16:52
Speaker 4: to live here forever. But then one of our neighbors
16:54
Speaker 4: was like, have you heard of airbnb? No, what's airbnb?
16:57
Speaker 4: So they coached us and we listed it and then
17:00
Speaker 4: oddly enough, it booked out and paid for our flight
17:02
Speaker 4: back to get the bus right, and then we drove
17:04
Speaker 4: the bus home, but we didn't know what we were doing,
17:07
Speaker 4: so it kept booking. So when we got the bus
17:09
Speaker 4: back to Portland months later, we had no home. And
17:12
Speaker 4: so oddly enough, we just spent all this time and
17:13
Speaker 4: money to build a home and we're still living in
17:16
Speaker 4: our neighborhood right, and so I don't know it just
17:18
Speaker 4: it was a really interesting twist that happened. And then
17:21
Speaker 4: we somehow realized in the middle of that that a
17:24
Speaker 4: little bit of money is a good idea, like, we
17:25
Speaker 4: need that, And we started planning our travel schedule around
17:28
Speaker 4: when people booked our garage and why people wanted to
17:31
Speaker 4: book our garage. I have no idea, it wasn't finished yet,
17:33
Speaker 4: but it just had a look and feel that I
17:35
Speaker 4: guess people wanted.
17:36
Speaker 1: Was that the one that won award and like an
17:38
Speaker 1: award or was it a fancy magazine or something.
17:40
Speaker 4: It oddly got a little bit of media. Yeah, I
17:43
Speaker 4: don't know how, but we actually ended up in the
17:45
Speaker 4: New York Times.
17:46
Speaker 1: You're so hilarious right now. Oh I designed this thing.
17:50
Speaker 1: It's yeah, I don't understand why people liked it. Oh,
17:52
Speaker 1: it was in the New York Times.
17:55
Speaker 4: I appreciate that. It's funny. We do things because they
17:58
Speaker 4: make us happy, Like that's it. Just make decisions because
18:01
Speaker 4: at the time, it's what we have to do. But
18:03
Speaker 4: it's weird how many of those things happen to fall
18:06
Speaker 4: into niches of other movements or ideologies that are happening.
18:10
Speaker 1: Do you think there was like a certain design aesthetic
18:13
Speaker 1: that led to that or because it was a tiny
18:15
Speaker 1: home that was designed in a certain way.
18:17
Speaker 4: You don't know, no idea. I mean I would love
18:19
Speaker 4: to take full credit. I mean, yes, I have all
18:20
Speaker 4: these tears of education. Well I have an opinion it
18:25
Speaker 4: must be me.
18:25
Speaker 2: But no, in this sense, Brian's a designer. He doesn't
18:28
Speaker 2: see it like the rest of us. But in my perspective,
18:32
Speaker 2: I designed this super unusual, unique, industrial rugged. It's a garage.
18:39
Speaker 2: You can work on your van, or you can cook pasta,
18:44
Speaker 2: you can have a spall like shower, or you can
18:47
Speaker 2: you know, watch a football game or like whatever. I mean,
18:51
Speaker 2: it was really beautiful, cool, different than anything we'd ever seen.
18:55
Speaker 2: Weird people found it. Weird people. We are weird, so
18:59
Speaker 2: we say weird in a very like, very positive way,
19:02
Speaker 2: a loving way. Yes, weird people found it. Weird. Creative
19:06
Speaker 2: types found it. It won some awards, it got in
19:09
Speaker 2: some magazines, and we were so stoked because we literally,
19:14
Speaker 2: Brian designed it and we built it for us and
19:17
Speaker 2: our lifestyle and what we thought would be make us
19:20
Speaker 2: the happiest.
19:21
Speaker 1: People loved it.
19:22
Speaker 4: I mean, it turns out later on this is a
19:24
Speaker 4: reoccurring theme. We have no idea what we're doing. We're
19:27
Speaker 4: very honest about the fact we have no idea what
19:29
Speaker 4: we're doing, and we literally just designed something that is
19:33
Speaker 4: perfect for us. Right. We don't care if it matters
19:36
Speaker 4: to anybody else. We just designed what's going to make
19:38
Speaker 4: us happy and comfortable. But oddly enough, yeah, it seems
19:41
Speaker 4: to also resonate with other people. What's going with like
19:44
Speaker 4: minded rather than weird maybe while, but yeah, it just
19:48
Speaker 4: somehow resonates and that has been very fortunate for us.
19:52
Speaker 4: I mean, it's helped us get over those humps where
19:54
Speaker 4: we don't know what's next and we don't know we're
19:55
Speaker 4: doing and we don't know how we're going to pay
19:57
Speaker 4: for it. And so somehow this turned into you know,
19:59
Speaker 4: we would put it on a BnB and let it
20:00
Speaker 4: rent out for three weeks a month, and then we'd
20:03
Speaker 4: book one week for us so we could be there,
20:05
Speaker 4: and then we would travel the other three in our van,
20:07
Speaker 4: and we just decided to be at home. But now
20:09
Speaker 4: we're like, but that's kind of fun. We want to
20:11
Speaker 4: be traveling, exploring the Pacific Northwest. We've never done that before.
20:14
Speaker 4: And then the longer it went, the more we would
20:16
Speaker 4: just let it book because I always needed a home base.
20:19
Speaker 4: I think the thing I was missing throughout those therapy
20:22
Speaker 4: Bog sessions that we're talking about, and he was always
20:24
Speaker 4: missing was a home base. I needed it at a
20:26
Speaker 4: very deep luve I didn't understand. And once we built it,
20:28
Speaker 4: I was like, I'm good, Yeah, let's travel again, let's
20:31
Speaker 4: just go yes, And so we just started actually traveling
20:33
Speaker 4: more and more despite the fact we just built a
20:35
Speaker 4: home base, which I will never understand. But it turns
20:38
Speaker 4: out I don't have to understand. We just go with it.
20:40
Speaker 1: Yes, So jumping a little bit ahead, then you'll see
20:43
Speaker 1: we saw this happen again with your zen Van's build.
20:47
Speaker 1: Another great example.
20:48
Speaker 4: Yeah, I had actually forgotten a lot of the details
20:50
Speaker 4: of this until today when a lot of people came
20:52
Speaker 4: and asked questions. Yeah, but we were still in the Kobe.
20:55
Speaker 4: Not so great in the Northwest. You know, rain's outside,
20:58
Speaker 4: rains inside, still breaking down every three days, which we
21:01
Speaker 4: had gotten used to. But we we got a letter
21:04
Speaker 4: from our credit union that was like, you guys are
21:05
Speaker 4: preapproved for a car loan at one percent.
21:08
Speaker 2: But it has to be a brand new vehicle.
21:10
Speaker 4: And we're like, we haven't had a check in like
21:12
Speaker 4: three years, Like what's wrong with you guys. But those sprinters,
21:15
Speaker 4: those new sprinters, those look really good, like you can
21:18
Speaker 4: stand up in them like modern man. And so we
21:20
Speaker 4: bought a new sprinter olly, thinking like even as we
21:23
Speaker 4: drove it home with a hammock in the back, somebody's
21:25
Speaker 4: going to come repossess this because they're going to find
21:26
Speaker 4: out that we will not have jobs.
21:28
Speaker 2: Backing up just a second, Bride was looking at there
21:30
Speaker 2: were a lot of food carts in Portland, Seattle at
21:33
Speaker 2: the time, and there were these taco trucks that looked
21:36
Speaker 2: really big and beautiful, and like, we're like, that's like
21:39
Speaker 2: three times as big as our Volkswagen. What if we
21:41
Speaker 2: got one of those and lived in those, you know,
21:43
Speaker 2: for a bit. They were like, you know, four or
21:45
Speaker 2: five thousand dollars and that doesn't seem like a lot
21:48
Speaker 2: of money. But we didn't have that. So then the
21:50
Speaker 2: credit Union was like, but if you buy something new,
21:53
Speaker 2: it's like one percent interest. Bry's like, let's get a
21:57
Speaker 2: big giant van, and let's designed something really cool on it.
22:01
Speaker 1: Which you did.
22:02
Speaker 4: We did. Yeah, you kind of kept doing the same thing.
22:04
Speaker 4: So we would design and build and then the designer
22:07
Speaker 4: in me was like, no, that's not right, and we'd
22:08
Speaker 4: rip it out and we'd rebuild, and we keep doing
22:10
Speaker 4: it again and again. And so I think over the
22:12
Speaker 4: next two or three years, while we're living in it
22:14
Speaker 4: full time, essentially because we needed the money from the
22:17
Speaker 4: airbnb and we wanted to travel, so we're living in
22:19
Speaker 4: it full time, we're trying to build it. It's failing.
22:22
Speaker 4: We're changing things, and eventually, I don't know, the designer
22:25
Speaker 4: of me was just like, there's got to be a
22:27
Speaker 4: better way, right, So rather than self tapping screws and
22:30
Speaker 4: turning the van into Swiss cheese, what if we just
22:32
Speaker 4: bolted things to factory holes. Then I could rip it
22:35
Speaker 4: out a thousand times without damaging the van. And there
22:39
Speaker 4: was this epiphany like, oh my goodness, that'd be awesome.
22:41
Speaker 4: We could do that. And oddly, at the same time,
22:43
Speaker 4: we got invited to come to o run Nexpo interesting
22:45
Speaker 4: place to do this interview. They just invited us to
22:48
Speaker 4: come speak as feature travelers. And you know, we'd already
22:51
Speaker 4: had this experience in home depot, parking lots or campgrounds
22:54
Speaker 4: where we open the doors and people just gather around
22:56
Speaker 4: and they're like, can you help us? Can you do this?
22:58
Speaker 4: And we kind of do the same thing with our
23:00
Speaker 4: where we help neighbors do the same thing just because
23:02
Speaker 4: they saw it and they came in, and you know,
23:04
Speaker 4: we wanted to share the happiness and the freedom and
23:06
Speaker 4: the extra money. And so while we were here, people
23:08
Speaker 4: were begging and throwing checks at us, and we're like,
23:10
Speaker 4: we don't do that. We travel. We really like to travel. Yeah,
23:13
Speaker 4: And eventually we just kind of started to break down
23:15
Speaker 4: and realize, wait, we kind of just turned this into
23:18
Speaker 4: a system that might work, kind of started doing both.
23:20
Speaker 4: We were still building our band full time while living
23:22
Speaker 4: in it. But we're also like, but what if we
23:24
Speaker 4: made tweaks that would allow others to do the same
23:26
Speaker 4: thing and to start to travel and feel the freedom
23:29
Speaker 4: and happiness and all the things that we had fought
23:32
Speaker 4: so hard for.
23:32
Speaker 2: And I think one thing that we were super aware
23:35
Speaker 2: of when we had full time jobs and we were
23:39
Speaker 2: very busy all the time, we didn't have enough time
23:42
Speaker 2: to really think about what we really wanted in life.
23:45
Speaker 2: Now we had free time, Brian's able to be creative
23:49
Speaker 2: with different designs. One thing that we realized was really
23:52
Speaker 2: we valued that was really important to us is how
23:55
Speaker 2: do we somehow share with other people that are too
23:58
Speaker 2: busy to really think about what they want. Know that
24:00
Speaker 2: if you have time to think about what you want,
24:02
Speaker 2: you can make what you want happen. If you can
24:05
Speaker 2: step back a little bit, be like, oh man, I
24:07
Speaker 2: want to take six months off and travel Africa or
24:10
Speaker 2: you know you can do that. You just have to
24:14
Speaker 2: go for.
24:14
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24:58
Speaker 4: It is quite weird how you take the thing that
25:01
Speaker 4: always for me was terrifying, right like for her it
25:03
Speaker 4: was easy. It's like, that's just happiness. We're just going
25:05
Speaker 4: to quit our jobs money and nobody needs it.
25:06
Speaker 2: It's super easy for me and I just I.
25:09
Speaker 4: Think I just spent the last two hours like trying
25:11
Speaker 4: to convince two different couples to quit their jobs or
25:14
Speaker 4: find a way to keep their job and work remotely
25:16
Speaker 4: and run away. And every time I'm like, wow, I'm
25:19
Speaker 4: literally just talking. I'm just talking as super gen right now,
25:23
Speaker 4: I'm just telling you, I'm just for all the same
25:26
Speaker 4: things that she told me for years, right and I
25:28
Speaker 4: didn't believe any of them. And suddenly, now you know,
25:30
Speaker 4: we're ten years in, it's so easy to take the
25:33
Speaker 4: other side and be like, look, I know it's scary.
25:35
Speaker 4: I know you don't know the answers, you don't know
25:37
Speaker 4: what the way out is yet, but it will be there.
25:39
Speaker 4: Like there is an option after you leave, and if
25:41
Speaker 4: there's not, you can always go back.
25:44
Speaker 2: You can always go back, you can always go back.
25:46
Speaker 4: It was so terrified that we can never go back.
25:49
Speaker 4: Going back is so easy, Like you already have that thing,
25:52
Speaker 4: you already know how to do those things. Leaving is hard,
25:55
Speaker 4: but going back's easy because you know what we want
25:57
Speaker 4: to do it.
25:58
Speaker 2: I know what's going back. You know what it feels like,
26:00
Speaker 2: you know what that looks like. It might not be
26:02
Speaker 2: the same job in the same city, you know what
26:07
Speaker 2: the perks will be. You know what the advantages will be,
26:10
Speaker 2: you know what the disadvantages will be. You can choose that,
26:14
Speaker 2: and you can you can you can create that again
26:17
Speaker 2: for your life. But going into the unknown, that's the
26:19
Speaker 2: scary part. I mean, we're huge believers, Like, it doesn't
26:23
Speaker 2: matter if you want to be in a Volkswagen or
26:25
Speaker 2: a sprinter overland or on a boat or whatever. Whatever
26:29
Speaker 2: you feel is going to make you feel like you
26:33
Speaker 2: are living. This is good. I'm doing, I am doing
26:36
Speaker 2: what I should be doing. Go do that. It doesn't
26:39
Speaker 2: matter what it is, Just go do that.
26:41
Speaker 4: It's funny that this is the part that I think
26:43
Speaker 4: once we learned what the word overland meant, we always
26:46
Speaker 4: felt like we didn't quite fit in, even though we
26:48
Speaker 4: were doing it. Always been about just take whatever's in
26:50
Speaker 4: the driveway, just go, like, find a way to go.
26:52
Speaker 4: You can figure the rest out. But for us it
26:54
Speaker 4: was so clear right we already had a van that
26:56
Speaker 4: most people would never choose to take. It broke down
26:58
Speaker 4: every three days. We didn't know how to fit. Everything
27:00
Speaker 4: was going wrong, but we were happy. And somehow when
27:04
Speaker 4: we looked at the highway from the beach that we
27:06
Speaker 4: were camping, on. We were getting passed on the pan
27:08
Speaker 4: am by like tricycles and fiats and like people that
27:13
Speaker 4: you shouldn't even trying to sleep in your vehicle, and
27:15
Speaker 4: they're passing us, and we're coming back after going all
27:17
Speaker 4: the way south. I don't know, somehow just drove that
27:20
Speaker 4: vision deeper and deeper deeper, like it doesn't matter, just
27:22
Speaker 4: find a way to take one step and the rest
27:25
Speaker 4: of the steps will helphind you. I'm still not a
27:27
Speaker 4: trusting person like I this is really hard for me,
27:30
Speaker 4: Like I'm not fully adopted and adapted yet. But it
27:32
Speaker 4: is amazing the ways that we, you know, we have
27:35
Speaker 4: had to continually reinvent ourselves over the last ten years.
27:38
Speaker 4: But it is not without opportunities and ideas and things
27:42
Speaker 4: that also feed in and help along the way. Like
27:45
Speaker 4: somehow we don't have to just go from zero to
27:48
Speaker 4: one hundred. There's something that comes along that's like, oh,
27:51
Speaker 4: you know, like a letter from your credit for example,
27:53
Speaker 4: I guess.
27:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm curious because you guys went from then travel
27:58
Speaker 1: and made the leap into sailing. And so there's another
28:01
Speaker 1: example of you, you know, leap in the net where
28:04
Speaker 1: it will appear or the boat will appear or whatever. Yeah,
28:08
Speaker 1: what was that transition like? And why did you choose
28:10
Speaker 1: to leave.
28:11
Speaker 4: Land for c Again purely accidentally as we do things,
28:15
Speaker 4: I think, so we had just decided to eventually not
28:19
Speaker 4: say no to helping other people build vans. We said yes,
28:22
Speaker 4: So we decided to make a couple of diy kits
28:24
Speaker 4: and see if it was a business that did not
28:26
Speaker 4: go according to plan at all early on, And so
28:29
Speaker 4: we came to Expo and we presented it and feedback
28:32
Speaker 4: was amazing. I mean, we got a lot of great
28:33
Speaker 4: free media. Again, people were thrilled. I mean to watch
28:37
Speaker 4: people be excited about something you design and build is fulfilling.
28:41
Speaker 4: It never gets tiring, right, I mean, it's just magical.
28:44
Speaker 4: So we walked away this long list. But then when
28:46
Speaker 4: we looked at each other and we're like, hey, we
28:48
Speaker 4: have to finish these two out of three vans we
28:51
Speaker 4: just started, and we're already exhausted. So I think all in,
28:53
Speaker 4: we spent six months of twenty two hour days just
28:57
Speaker 4: working on this project. And so when we really checked
28:59
Speaker 4: in ourselves and we're like, okay, what do we want
29:01
Speaker 4: to do? We got all these new clients. We want
29:03
Speaker 4: to run away because that's what we're good at. And
29:06
Speaker 4: so we just kind of got into our van. We
29:08
Speaker 4: want to go camping, and we just drove north right
29:10
Speaker 4: and like Alaska was always on the list, and so
29:12
Speaker 4: we drove north through BC and Alberta in Northwest Territories,
29:15
Speaker 4: into the Yukon, up the Dempster and you know, got
29:18
Speaker 4: to the Arctic Circle and drove over to Alaska. And
29:20
Speaker 4: we're like, oh my god, dream trip. This is amazing.
29:23
Speaker 4: And every time we'd get back into cell range, we'd
29:25
Speaker 4: get like twenty calls that would pop in and we're like,
29:29
Speaker 4: I'm afraid to call them back because we just walked away,
29:32
Speaker 4: like we don't know what this is yet. We have
29:34
Speaker 4: to find our balance, and somewhere along the way we
29:37
Speaker 4: I think in Alaska is where we you know, we
29:41
Speaker 4: always found ourselves kind of camping at marinas and on
29:44
Speaker 4: the ocean, like we just were always drawn to the sea.
29:46
Speaker 4: And we're at a campfire with this guy. It's midnight,
29:48
Speaker 4: so the sun's still out in Alaska. We have our
29:50
Speaker 4: shades on and he's just miserable. I mean, he's bitter,
29:53
Speaker 4: he's he's mad, and we're kind of checking in like hey, man,
29:56
Speaker 4: like this is really great, isn't it. He's like, no,
29:58
Speaker 4: this is horrible. I'm a sailor. I want to be
30:00
Speaker 4: on my boat. Why aren't you on your boat? And
30:02
Speaker 4: he's like, well, I'm too old, my body's breaking down.
30:04
Speaker 4: I have to move on to the next phase. And
30:06
Speaker 4: our entire life we had dreamt of being on a boat,
30:08
Speaker 4: but it was too much money, it was too far away.
30:10
Speaker 4: We didn't not sail it. It was always this like later later,
30:13
Speaker 4: and for whatever reason, we drove away. And this guy's
30:15
Speaker 4: just hit us really deep. And so we made an
30:18
Speaker 4: offer on a boat three days later that we had
30:20
Speaker 4: never even seen before.
30:21
Speaker 1: From all three days later.
30:24
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, past lessons come true. What we now realize,
30:27
Speaker 4: once we make a decision about what we want.
30:29
Speaker 1: It's go time like now, and.
30:31
Speaker 4: So that means literally like within sixty.
30:33
Speaker 2: Seconds and kind of circling back what we said earlier.
30:36
Speaker 2: We knew we could always go back to the van
30:38
Speaker 2: we loved. We love overlanding. Let's try overwatering, I guess
30:44
Speaker 2: if that's even a word. And when we jumped into
30:48
Speaker 2: that path, we didn't know if we'd get seasick, we
30:51
Speaker 2: didn't know if we'd love it. We didn't know if
30:53
Speaker 2: our sweet precious dog, who is like our tribe, you know,
30:57
Speaker 2: part of our tripod, if she would like it. And
30:59
Speaker 2: we were willing to readjust if we got on this
31:04
Speaker 2: path and decided not to because we knew, well we
31:07
Speaker 2: are happy camping and driving around to remote locations and
31:12
Speaker 2: living out of our vehicle. That it turned out that
31:15
Speaker 2: we really liked it. That was almost four years ago, right,
31:19
Speaker 2: three and a half years.
31:20
Speaker 4: Ago, yeah, almost foraging. I remember we made an offer
31:23
Speaker 4: on the boat, and then in that period where you
31:24
Speaker 4: can still run away, right, had this conversation. We're like,
31:28
Speaker 4: we've read about this enough, like we don't know a lot,
31:30
Speaker 4: we don't know how to say it at all, but
31:31
Speaker 4: we've read about boats because it's always been a dream.
31:33
Speaker 4: And so if we do this, we're probably going to
31:36
Speaker 4: lose a lot of money. Like we just came into
31:38
Speaker 4: money for the first time in years, right, so we
31:40
Speaker 4: finally had something in the account and we're like, okay,
31:43
Speaker 4: if we spend all this money on the boat, we're
31:44
Speaker 4: going to lose this many dollars. And it was a
31:46
Speaker 4: big number, like I don't know how many figures were anyway,
31:50
Speaker 4: Like that's a six figure number. If we if we
31:52
Speaker 4: did this for a year or two and we lose
31:54
Speaker 4: that many dollars, are we okay? Would we still do it?
31:56
Speaker 4: And we're like yeah, like we're doing it right. And
31:59
Speaker 4: so we did it, and then we kept expecting like
32:01
Speaker 4: something to fall through, It won't really happen. It did happen.
32:04
Speaker 4: And then literally at the day were arriving, like we
32:07
Speaker 4: drove coss we silber van, moved into a rental van,
32:10
Speaker 4: drove cross country and as we got to like maybe
32:12
Speaker 4: New Orleans, reality started to set in and we're like,
32:15
Speaker 4: oh my god, what have we done? Like what if
32:18
Speaker 4: we get see sick? What if the dog hates it?
32:19
Speaker 4: Like we're in trouble. And then we move aboard and
32:21
Speaker 4: we started to look around and we're like, wow, it's huge,
32:25
Speaker 4: Like this is going to be easy to live in.
32:27
Speaker 4: Have you figured out how to turn the lights on?
32:28
Speaker 4: Like do you know how to flush the toilet? Like
32:31
Speaker 4: we didn't know anything, right, We'd never really even been
32:34
Speaker 4: on boats, and so we just spent a long time
32:37
Speaker 4: kind of figuring out just how to live, much less
32:40
Speaker 4: how to sail, which we eventually had to learn. So
32:42
Speaker 4: we just adopted this like one new thing and so
32:45
Speaker 4: in the beginning that was like how to turn the
32:46
Speaker 4: lights on, how to flush the toilet, how to do whatever,
32:49
Speaker 4: how to open a door, and then eventually it was
32:51
Speaker 4: like how to start up the dingy motor, how to
32:55
Speaker 4: raise the sail, which was literally, you know, we found
32:58
Speaker 4: ourselves in the ocean because we were too orf I
33:00
Speaker 4: to go back and dock the boat again. Mostly like that.
33:02
Speaker 4: Leaving the dock was easy. Going back was like, no,
33:04
Speaker 4: we're not doing that.
33:05
Speaker 1: Where was the dock that you were leaving from?
33:07
Speaker 4: Or you're a Fort Lauderdale, Okay, time is where we
33:09
Speaker 4: picked up the boat, gotcha? And so we were just like,
33:11
Speaker 4: I don't want to go back to you anyway, Okay,
33:12
Speaker 4: we'll keep going. So we went through a couple of bridges,
33:14
Speaker 4: got out to the water and we're just sitting there bobbing,
33:17
Speaker 4: and we're like, whoa, yes, we could raise the sails,
33:20
Speaker 4: like that was like three weeks from now we could try.
33:22
Speaker 4: So we poured out the binoculars and we're like looking
33:24
Speaker 4: at the top, like trying to follow the colors. We're like,
33:27
Speaker 4: what are these ropes? Oh wait, we can't say ropes lines,
33:30
Speaker 4: they're lines. Which line does what? And we finally picked
33:33
Speaker 4: it up and we raised the sails and we're like yes,
33:36
Speaker 4: and we looked around the boat. It's not going anywhere,
33:38
Speaker 4: and I'm like, oh, I thought that's how you said
33:40
Speaker 4: our boat just you put the things up and it goes.
33:43
Speaker 4: But that's we started that right like that far down
33:46
Speaker 4: the rope that we had to learn literally everything about
33:50
Speaker 4: how to how to live this lifestyle.
33:53
Speaker 1: And also the thing that's great as you took it
33:55
Speaker 1: in bite sized chunks, so you weren't completely overwhelmed at
33:58
Speaker 1: the beginning and you're like I can't, I'm done, Like
34:00
Speaker 1: this is too much, so taking it a little bit
34:03
Speaker 1: at a time.
34:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, well said, well, yeah, we.
34:06
Speaker 4: Were still terrified. Let's be clear, we tried. We would
34:09
Speaker 4: tell ourselves that for a security blanket. We did still
34:12
Speaker 4: have a date where we had to move off that dock.
34:14
Speaker 4: Like our lease or whatever they call it on the
34:17
Speaker 4: dock was expiring. We had to be gone, and so
34:19
Speaker 4: we're like, okay, like let's take this real slow, but
34:21
Speaker 4: also we have to go, and so we kind of
34:23
Speaker 4: just kept doing that. I think our third or fourth
34:27
Speaker 4: sail ever was across the Gulf Stream.
34:29
Speaker 2: And from Florida to the Bahamas.
34:31
Speaker 4: And at that point we didn't even know what that meant.
34:33
Speaker 4: We're just like, it's a body of water, it's fine,
34:34
Speaker 4: and people are like it's kind of a big deal,
34:37
Speaker 4: like you should know what you're doing. So we started
34:39
Speaker 4: learning how to I should say, Jen started learning how
34:42
Speaker 4: to read, whether figure out what the right timing is.
34:45
Speaker 4: You need a big window to make sure there's no
34:47
Speaker 4: storms coming. And to be clear, Jen's the captain of
34:49
Speaker 4: the boat, right, Like this is philosophical boats that we've
34:52
Speaker 4: been talking about for a while now is all driven
34:55
Speaker 4: by Jen, and so Jen's the captain. Jen became responsible
34:58
Speaker 4: for learning how to read, rather how to steer the boat,
35:02
Speaker 4: how to do all the things, because I'm still busy
35:04
Speaker 4: doing business things. I guess even though we swore there
35:08
Speaker 4: was no business. It's funny. We got to this port
35:10
Speaker 4: where most people pop off from to go to the Bahamas,
35:12
Speaker 4: and we're looking for anybody to just say like it's okay,
35:15
Speaker 4: it's okay. We're still looking for that blog that's you're
35:17
Speaker 4: going to survive, yes, And we found one boat that
35:20
Speaker 4: was from Portland, Organ and we're like, oh, it's going
35:22
Speaker 4: to r We dingy around their boat. We knock on
35:24
Speaker 4: the boat. We yell at them, there's uber high uber low, which,
35:28
Speaker 4: as it turns out, is a theme in living on
35:30
Speaker 4: a boat. Could not find them. I guess they were
35:31
Speaker 4: at the bar or something else. And it turns out
35:33
Speaker 4: he's a meteorologist. And so we rode eventually and said
35:36
Speaker 4: we're going to cross tomorrow. What do you guys think?
35:39
Speaker 4: And we didn't get their email back until we're halfway
35:41
Speaker 4: across the Gulf stream when they responded, whatever you do,
35:45
Speaker 4: do not cross tomorrow. And so we I don't even
35:48
Speaker 4: know how we got cell service.
35:49
Speaker 2: That was a lovely crossing, though, I have to say,
35:51
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know what our expectations were, but
35:54
Speaker 2: it felt safe, and I mean it felt big. We're
35:56
Speaker 2: on the open ocean.
35:57
Speaker 4: Everything felt it was pretty amazy. I were big. There
36:00
Speaker 4: were things that were kind of a gulp moment, but
36:02
Speaker 4: overall was fine compared to whatever we built ourselves up for.
36:05
Speaker 4: And so we got their text, I'm like, oh my god,
36:06
Speaker 4: we need to turn around, but we're halfway. What if
36:08
Speaker 4: it's behind us. We just kind of had to keep
36:10
Speaker 4: going and we would learn days later that they actually
36:12
Speaker 4: decided to cross on the same day, just ten hours
36:15
Speaker 4: behind us or something. It was fine. There's a lot
36:17
Speaker 4: of a reaction when you're reading weather and things like that,
36:19
Speaker 4: and so it's just I don't know. It's just another
36:21
Speaker 4: example of how at some point you just have to leep.
36:24
Speaker 4: You got to leap, right, you got to make the jump.
36:25
Speaker 4: There are things that are almost builty and that will
36:28
Speaker 4: terrify you along the way, and you just kind of
36:30
Speaker 4: got to keep going. And in this particular case, on
36:33
Speaker 4: the other side of that leap was idyllic beaches and
36:37
Speaker 4: sunsets and all the things that we'dn't.
36:40
Speaker 2: See turtles and dolphins and whales and shark.
36:43
Speaker 4: So anyway, I mean, terrifying start, and we just kept
36:46
Speaker 4: going from there. We basically just went down throughout the
36:48
Speaker 4: entire Caribbean and kept learning as we go. And to
36:51
Speaker 4: be honest, we still know. I think most sailors would say,
36:53
Speaker 4: we know nothing, but we're better than we were, and
36:56
Speaker 4: we wouldn't change the thing. I mean, it's it's oddly
36:59
Speaker 4: oddly similar to life in very many ways.
37:01
Speaker 1: I was going to ask about that, Yeah, I.
37:03
Speaker 4: Mean the lifestyle of you know, moving to smaller spaces
37:06
Speaker 4: and kind of figuring out life as you go and
37:08
Speaker 4: having to deal with your own repairs and having to
37:10
Speaker 4: cross a lot of borders. I mean, there are oddly
37:13
Speaker 4: a large number of similarities. We somehow always keep catch
37:16
Speaker 4: ourselves saying that the only difference is the highs are
37:18
Speaker 4: way higher and the lows are way lower, and they
37:21
Speaker 4: tend to come with about thirty seconds of warning between.
37:24
Speaker 4: You feel you're having the best moment of your life,
37:26
Speaker 4: and it is almost certainly going to be followed with
37:28
Speaker 4: like the largest.
37:30
Speaker 2: Fear rainbow, dolphins jumping, you catch a tuna, and then
37:36
Speaker 2: here comes a storm, like not like a huge storm,
37:39
Speaker 2: but the squall that's going to hit you for a
37:43
Speaker 2: good five minutes and you're going to be in a
37:46
Speaker 2: tail spin for about five minutes, and it's pretty stressful.
37:49
Speaker 2: And other thing is maybe when hardware falls off somewhere
37:54
Speaker 2: at the top of your mast and you're like, was
37:56
Speaker 2: that important? Because I just heard something fall, Like what
37:59
Speaker 2: was that?
38:00
Speaker 4: What do you think this piece goes? No?
38:03
Speaker 2: Seems important, And then you have to investigate every single
38:07
Speaker 2: part and like, just oh man, it's praty. It's a
38:10
Speaker 2: lot like overlanding, right.
38:11
Speaker 1: I was going to say that maybe the risks I
38:14
Speaker 1: don't know. I've never sailed but I would imagine.
38:16
Speaker 4: You're going to change that in the next couple of
38:17
Speaker 4: months or weeks. Right, Yes, I got the commitment on courting.
38:23
Speaker 1: By the way, it's as evidence now exactly. Oh, I
38:28
Speaker 1: was going to say, it seems like the risks are
38:31
Speaker 1: more intense maybe on a boat in some way.
38:34
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean our so our original I guess. We
38:37
Speaker 4: drove south to Panama. Our our bus literally broke down
38:40
Speaker 4: about every three days. But honestly it was good for us.
38:43
Speaker 4: A lot of the fears we had about Mexico turned
38:45
Speaker 4: into us feeling more protected and safe than ever because
38:48
Speaker 4: there was always some community or some person that was
38:51
Speaker 4: willing to come out and save us, literally save us,
38:54
Speaker 4: because we had no idea what we're doing. But on
38:55
Speaker 4: the boat, there's just nobody there, right, I mean, there's
38:57
Speaker 4: nobody that's going to pass because there's not a road
38:59
Speaker 4: that you all have to follow. You're just in the
39:01
Speaker 4: middle of this giant body, figuring it out on your own.
39:04
Speaker 4: And to be fair, I didn't know how to fix
39:05
Speaker 4: the multipagon engine either, but I certainly don't know how
39:08
Speaker 4: to fix the diesel engine, and now I'm trying to
39:10
Speaker 4: fix it. Well in ten foot seas in the middle
39:13
Speaker 4: of an ocean, it just the bar gets raised fairly
39:16
Speaker 4: significantly in ways that we didn't expect.
39:19
Speaker 2: But and then you see your rainbow, golphins jumping. This
39:23
Speaker 2: is really freaking cool.
39:25
Speaker 4: Or you pull into port and you get to stay
39:28
Speaker 4: for several weeks because you're totally self sustaining, and you
39:31
Speaker 4: get to enjoy all of those things which we now
39:33
Speaker 4: realize we've always been driven by. We've always basically driven
39:37
Speaker 4: the ocean roads. We've always camped on the beach. We've
39:40
Speaker 4: always sat there looking and staring and wondering what those
39:43
Speaker 4: people on the boats were doing. Once we get to
39:45
Speaker 4: our destination, there's no question this is our perfect life.
39:48
Speaker 4: We are literally living what we would have written down
39:51
Speaker 4: and actually did in some of Gen's daydreaming events. We're
39:56
Speaker 4: living our vision quest. Right. It's beautiful. It just comes
39:59
Speaker 4: with of really terrifying, harrowing moments in between those beautiful events.
40:04
Speaker 1: Right. What are some differences I guess a few more
40:08
Speaker 1: differences between overlanding and sailing. Do you think in terms
40:13
Speaker 1: of even the vessel or imagine it's different because you're
40:17
Speaker 1: popping via different islands and how often do you have
40:21
Speaker 1: to land? You know and encounter other people are more isolated.
40:25
Speaker 2: I think one of the most impactful differences to us
40:29
Speaker 2: because the lifestyle is very similar. We still seek out
40:33
Speaker 2: remote locations. We did that on land, we do that
40:37
Speaker 2: by sea. We still make our own power, make our
40:40
Speaker 2: own water. We didn't make our own water, you know,
40:42
Speaker 2: on land, but we carried our own water. And low
40:46
Speaker 2: impact on the ocean, low impact when you're camping. But
40:49
Speaker 2: the thing that is so much different is that the
40:52
Speaker 2: salt water the ocean, it's so intense and things deteriorate
40:57
Speaker 2: and corrodes so much faster than store altitude or like
41:02
Speaker 2: the things that we've experienced, you know, being a problem
41:05
Speaker 2: in our vehicles, you know, are electronics failing because too
41:10
Speaker 2: much salt, the bottom of the boat corroding. Basically animals
41:15
Speaker 2: like be deciding they want to live on the bottom
41:17
Speaker 2: of the boat. Like what would you say, Brian, that
41:19
Speaker 2: was my p.
41:20
Speaker 4: It's almost like everything is suddenly against you, right, I mean,
41:22
Speaker 4: the ocean will destroy anything that it gets its hands on,
41:26
Speaker 4: and so we're suddenly like, oh, we have to have
41:27
Speaker 4: a backup laptop, we have to have a backup GoPro,
41:30
Speaker 4: we have to have a back Oh we can't afford
41:31
Speaker 4: any of them, much less replacement oil filters and fuel
41:33
Speaker 4: filters and things that matter impellers, and so we're just
41:36
Speaker 4: we find ourselves so deeply over our heads, which should
41:40
Speaker 4: be tremendously stressful, but we are literally living our best life.
41:44
Speaker 4: And so it's like, how do you balance these two things?
41:47
Speaker 1: Right?
41:47
Speaker 4: And so we try to get better at Like when
41:48
Speaker 4: we get into a port that has things, we just
41:51
Speaker 4: go guns blazing, like we have to get all the
41:53
Speaker 4: things as fast as we can, and they're never all
41:55
Speaker 4: of the things, but you get as many as you can, right,
41:57
Speaker 4: and then we try to order as much as we
41:59
Speaker 4: can from home. Shipping is a complete nightmare. All the
42:01
Speaker 4: things that we always took for granted, like if you
42:03
Speaker 4: break down, there's Triple A, or there's a gas station
42:06
Speaker 4: within range, or even in Mexico at least with the Boltswagon.
42:10
Speaker 4: If guy knows how to fix the toaster, he knows
42:11
Speaker 4: how to fix your van, you're gonna be fine. Suddenly
42:14
Speaker 4: there's just nobody there. And so it's this very odd
42:17
Speaker 4: dichotomy of like, I've never been happier in my life.
42:20
Speaker 4: There's no way I'm giving this up. And yet we're
42:22
Speaker 4: in constant risk of just drifting in the open ocean, right,
42:25
Speaker 4: Like it's just this weird combination. But yet we wouldn't
42:28
Speaker 4: change a thing. I mean, here we are. The last
42:30
Speaker 4: six weeks, we came back to the States for the
42:32
Speaker 4: first time in four years, moved back into a van,
42:35
Speaker 4: which at this point is a company van, and you know,
42:37
Speaker 4: had weird things we never had in our van, like
42:39
Speaker 4: plumbing and hot water showers and just you know, things
42:43
Speaker 4: that are too good for humidity to endure. Yeah, we
42:45
Speaker 4: still miss it. We're loving every minute that we're in
42:47
Speaker 4: a van. And I think that the lesson here is
42:50
Speaker 4: that at some point the perfect balance is to have both.
42:53
Speaker 4: Like I think we're becoming more aware of that, but
42:54
Speaker 4: we also just miss every day that we get to
42:58
Speaker 4: I think we're Murphy. I mean, I think I think
43:00
Speaker 4: we've actually decided that we're more people. I mean, in
43:03
Speaker 4: our best when I wasn't working too much and things
43:06
Speaker 4: like that, we were in the water like six to
43:08
Speaker 4: eight hours a day, wow, circling, diving, underwater, just meeting
43:13
Speaker 4: local sea creatures and like that is, as it turns out,
43:16
Speaker 4: that is our happiness, right, I don't know, it's funny,
43:19
Speaker 4: And now we're talking about crossing the Pacific, which I
43:22
Speaker 4: think we all know is way above our pay grade,
43:24
Speaker 4: Like we are not even close to ready.
43:26
Speaker 2: That's like thirty days of sailing without potentially seeing anybody, Wow,
43:32
Speaker 2: no place to stop. I mean maybe even thirty five days.
43:37
Speaker 4: It was probably forty forty. But at some point we
43:39
Speaker 4: just admit, like, nobody's coming. You have a we have
43:42
Speaker 4: kind of a phone tree. We do have a satellite,
43:44
Speaker 4: so if something goes wrong, it'll text our friend. And
43:46
Speaker 4: our friends are like, hey, so who do we call?
43:48
Speaker 2: Honestly, there is no one to call. We just want
43:52
Speaker 2: to say goodbye.
43:54
Speaker 4: I honestly think it's just us being polite and saying, hey,
43:57
Speaker 4: don't know what's gonna happen from here, Like I don't
44:00
Speaker 4: think I want to be on the phone tree anything fair,
44:03
Speaker 4: So yeah, I don't know. It's just so interesting that
44:06
Speaker 4: it is. I look back at the things that terrified me,
44:09
Speaker 4: and I have no idea why I was so afraid
44:11
Speaker 4: of those things, Like that was just change. That was
44:13
Speaker 4: just being afraid of not normal. This is actually terrifying,
44:18
Speaker 4: But we wouldn't change it for anything. I mean, it's
44:21
Speaker 4: just once we in between islands. When we're on and
44:24
Speaker 4: we have to be sailing and we're dealing with weather
44:26
Speaker 4: like that is truly terrifying. Once we get to an island,
44:29
Speaker 4: I mean, we wouldn't change anything, right. We would import
44:32
Speaker 4: our friends because obviously COVID men, we haven't still anyone
44:35
Speaker 4: for four years. We would change who we get to
44:37
Speaker 4: spend it with and share things with. But in terms
44:39
Speaker 4: of lifestyle, it's uncanny. And you know, we still think
44:42
Speaker 4: back to that guy at the campfire. Life is short.
44:44
Speaker 4: We have no idea what's coming for any of us
44:46
Speaker 4: or when it's coming, and so it's all about living,
44:49
Speaker 4: you know, the happiest and the freest and the best
44:51
Speaker 4: we can every day. And so while we're still thinking
44:53
Speaker 4: about that, like we have found it, there's no question
44:56
Speaker 4: that this is it. It's very remote, it's a little lonely,
44:58
Speaker 4: but it's so good in every way, right, And so
45:01
Speaker 4: it's coming from the guy that wrote because he was
45:05
Speaker 4: terrified and was trying to do therapy for himself. It's
45:08
Speaker 4: really funny to realize that you've kind of gotten to
45:12
Speaker 4: this place which we wouldn't change anything about it.
45:15
Speaker 1: I think people see that through you and they're like Wow,
45:18
Speaker 1: this is possible, and so yeah, you.
45:21
Speaker 4: Mean they're like, Wow, this guy's almost human. Now he's
45:23
Speaker 4: not like freaked out all the time. It's more fun
45:26
Speaker 4: to be around. I hear that.
45:27
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46:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, I usually ask people like what's your what's your
46:32
Speaker 1: favorite book? Or where is the place that you would
46:34
Speaker 1: go if you could travel on your right now? But
46:37
Speaker 1: I want to touch on something before we wrap up
46:39
Speaker 1: that you guys once said that totally resonated with me,
46:42
Speaker 1: and I think Brian you said it. You said we're broken,
46:45
Speaker 1: but in the best possible way. Does that sound familiar?
46:49
Speaker 4: Funny how this term is stuck?
46:50
Speaker 1: It has?
46:51
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, when we I think this fully hit when
46:54
Speaker 4: we first came back from Panama, Costa. Rica left the
46:57
Speaker 4: bus when we came home, and we actually had a
46:59
Speaker 4: common on the plane and we're like, okay, we can
47:02
Speaker 4: fit in, Like we can make this work. Although all
47:05
Speaker 4: of our friends are having kids, we're gonna have kids, I think,
47:07
Speaker 4: So we're ready, right, We're going to do this thing.
47:09
Speaker 4: Peer pressure is going to be big. We're just going
47:11
Speaker 4: to commit to normal. We're gonna have kids, We're gonna
47:13
Speaker 4: we're going to do this. Yeah, and we both agreed, well, yeah,
47:16
Speaker 4: I think I think it's the time, like we're in
47:18
Speaker 4: we're to be normal. And it could not have been
47:20
Speaker 4: clearer once we landed and got back home, like every event,
47:24
Speaker 4: every conversation, every parent that pulled us aside to say
47:27
Speaker 4: please never have kids, don't do it. We were broken, right,
47:30
Speaker 4: We could not. As hard as we tried, it was
47:33
Speaker 4: just square peg, roundhole, like we could not fit in.
47:36
Speaker 4: And so we kind of just started saying we're broken.
47:37
Speaker 4: And then we started realizing, hey, broken doesn't have to
47:39
Speaker 4: be bad, like it could be a good word, right, Yes,
47:42
Speaker 4: And I think we actually shared around a campfire like, well,
47:45
Speaker 4: at some point we should just have like a self
47:46
Speaker 4: help group where all of all of those of us
47:50
Speaker 4: that just can't seem to fit in anymore because we
47:53
Speaker 4: made this leap and we've seen the other side. We
47:55
Speaker 4: just need to band together, right because there are others
47:58
Speaker 4: of us out there. It's just not normal. It's just
48:00
Speaker 4: not common. And the further we go, the further we
48:03
Speaker 4: get away from normal. I think, the more this term
48:06
Speaker 4: really sinks in. I mean, I try to describe it now,
48:09
Speaker 4: but I just feel like there was this wall that
48:11
Speaker 4: was built around normalcy that once was terrifying to climb
48:15
Speaker 4: that wall or break through it, but once we got
48:16
Speaker 4: on the other side, you're like, oh wait, there's other
48:18
Speaker 4: people already over here, and they seem okay. And then
48:22
Speaker 4: like now that we move into sailing, granted, most of
48:24
Speaker 4: the people that are sailing have retired to get there,
48:27
Speaker 4: or they've done very magical things to get there. But
48:30
Speaker 4: now we spend a lot of evenings talking with people
48:33
Speaker 4: that are living full time this very removed lifestyle that
48:36
Speaker 4: we honestly never thought we would see in our lifetime.
48:38
Speaker 4: We just never thought we'd find the magical equation to
48:41
Speaker 4: get there. And all we do is talk about, well,
48:43
Speaker 4: why can't everybody else see that this is possible. We
48:46
Speaker 4: literally sit around talking with groups of people about how
48:48
Speaker 4: do you convince other people that there is no magic
48:51
Speaker 4: and there is no thing holding you back. You just
48:53
Speaker 4: have to have the faith to get And it's so
48:55
Speaker 4: very polarizing from what I remember very distinctly being on
49:00
Speaker 4: the other side of that wall, going there's no option,
49:02
Speaker 4: there is no way to get out of this, there
49:03
Speaker 4: is no freedom, and there's just there's also no way
49:06
Speaker 4: to do that. Because I could talk to my younger
49:07
Speaker 4: self today I still don't know the words. I still
49:10
Speaker 4: don't know what to say that would have made him
49:11
Speaker 4: feel free, other than oh, I love her and she's
49:14
Speaker 4: gonna go without me. I should probably get on this.
49:16
Speaker 4: It's really interesting to have come so far away in
49:18
Speaker 4: some so full circle. I guess and know that it's there,
49:22
Speaker 4: but also still not know how to talk about it,
49:24
Speaker 4: and I actually blog less now. I don't need the therapy.
49:26
Speaker 4: I guess I probably still need the therapy very deeply,
49:30
Speaker 4: but I also just don't know the words, right. I
49:31
Speaker 4: don't know. I don't know what to say to those people.
49:34
Speaker 4: I don't know what to say to me ten years.
49:36
Speaker 1: I think too, like you guys are really good about
49:38
Speaker 1: posting on Instagram and sharing kind of your day to
49:41
Speaker 1: day realities, and maybe that's another form of blogging, just
49:45
Speaker 1: in a different way.
49:46
Speaker 4: So I think it is. It's a little less wordy,
49:49
Speaker 4: which it would be bad before, as you'll attest, and
49:52
Speaker 4: now I think it's it's more just a photo album.
49:53
Speaker 4: It's a great way for us to look back and
49:55
Speaker 4: remember how far we've come, right, and to kind of
49:58
Speaker 4: remember if we look back over the last couple of years,
50:01
Speaker 4: it doesn't seem like our life. Right, we're looking at
50:04
Speaker 4: photos that are all blue.
50:05
Speaker 1: Ye your boys. Yeah.
50:08
Speaker 2: What I think is really beautiful about our journey that
50:12
Speaker 2: I think is super relevant for other people is that
50:15
Speaker 2: we didn't know ten years ago that we would be
50:18
Speaker 2: where we are right now today. We knew ten years
50:22
Speaker 2: ago where we wanted to be in a year, and
50:24
Speaker 2: then after that year was over, we were like, where
50:27
Speaker 2: do we want to be for the next six months
50:28
Speaker 2: or a year or two years or whatever, And so
50:31
Speaker 2: we constantly checked in with each other and it's been
50:34
Speaker 2: an evolution, it's been change, it's been different than what
50:37
Speaker 2: we expected. And I think that other people could really
50:41
Speaker 2: benefit if that felt right for them to also just say, Okay,
50:45
Speaker 2: where do I want to be in six months? Where
50:47
Speaker 2: do I want to be in a year, because sometimes
50:49
Speaker 2: five years, ten years, those goals are like they're beautiful
50:52
Speaker 2: because you can think so big, like I want this
50:55
Speaker 2: is what I want to do, and I definitely want
50:57
Speaker 2: to achieve this, or I want to go here, But
51:00
Speaker 2: it's also really hard to kind of bridge that gap
51:03
Speaker 2: of where I am today where I want to be
51:05
Speaker 2: in five years. But if you just take those baby steps,
51:09
Speaker 2: reevaluate in the moment, continually ask yourself like, am I
51:13
Speaker 2: feeling fulfilled? Am I on the right path? Is there
51:18
Speaker 2: something I want to be doing instead? And just going
51:21
Speaker 2: after that? I think there's something really sweet about that.
51:25
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I think I wanted to just say thank you
51:29
Speaker 1: guys so much for coming on this podcast, and I
51:32
Speaker 1: think that those life lessons gained over a more than
51:36
Speaker 1: a decade of experience definitely probably will resonate with a
51:40
Speaker 1: lot of people. So thank you so much for sharing
51:43
Speaker 1: all your story with me.
51:45
Speaker 2: You're a men.
51:46
Speaker 1: Thank you and the listeners. And also where can people
51:50
Speaker 1: find you if they're interested in zen Vans or in
51:53
Speaker 1: your sailing journey?
51:54
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean our personal stories. We still have the blug.
51:57
Speaker 4: We occasionally get back there, but it is not as
51:59
Speaker 4: frequent visited. But it was just the dangers with the
52:02
Speaker 4: Z at the end. Dot Com now Instagram is probably
52:05
Speaker 4: the most current, which is the dangers as well at
52:07
Speaker 4: the dangers with a Z. And then zen Bands is
52:10
Speaker 4: oddly turned from a passion project into a real business.
52:14
Speaker 4: And so that's just in bands dot com with a
52:15
Speaker 4: Z on both the front and the back. And be
52:18
Speaker 4: very clear, if you tune into any of those channels,
52:20
Speaker 4: we still have no idea what we're doing. There is
52:23
Speaker 4: no there's no good answer here. We've just, I think,
52:26
Speaker 4: both together, grown into a comfort of not knowing and
52:29
Speaker 4: being comfortable. We're mostly just a really bad influence.
52:32
Speaker 1: I think nonsense.
52:33
Speaker 4: I think you're a good influence and you're very sweet.
52:37
Speaker 1: Well, thank you guys so much for coming on. I
52:39
Speaker 1: really appreciate it and enjoy the rest of the expo
52:42
Speaker 1: and best wishes on your next sailing adventure. And yeah,
52:47
Speaker 1: all the Overland Journal podcast listeners out there, thank you
52:50
Speaker 1: so much for tuning in and we'll catch you next time.