Latest / The Stand with Meg Show / Untitled EpisodeShe's a Doctor. Family Court Still Took Her Kids. Custody MD Author Dr. Adwoafuaa Nwokocha | Ep 16

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Untitled EpisodeShe's a Doctor. Family Court Still Took Her Kids. Custody MD Author Dr. Adwoafuaa Nwokocha | Ep 16 · The Stand with Meg Show

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_05: Welcome to the Stand with Meg Show.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_05: I'm your host, Meg.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_05: What happens when a woman in a white coat, a doctor of other families that trust her for their children, walks into a family courtroom and can't save her own?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_05: This is a show where we rip the mask off the system that is hurting our families.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_05: We defend parents' rights.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_05: We protect children and we give the voice to the voiceless.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_05: Today I'm joined with Dr.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_05: Nokaja.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_05: I hope I pronounced that right.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_05: A Houston family medicine physician, a first-generation Ganoa American, a mother of five, and an author for Custody MD, Fighting for the Woo.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_05: Her book moves through medicine, motherhood, marriage, family court, faith, and rebuilding a life after years of conflict.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_05: Dr.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_05: Nachua, welcome to the show.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_05: Well, welcome, Monica.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_05: I'm so excited to have you on our show today and talk about your amazing book.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_05: It's awesome.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for watching.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Are you talking about?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing okay.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm hanging in there.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_05: We had some fun camera fix and lighting fix and computer fix right before this, but we got it.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_05: We figured it out, didn't we?
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_05: So I already gave you a great intro for you, but I want you to kind of just talk about just a rundown of your book.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_05: And I'll ask you more detailed questions about it, but just like a rundown of maybe why you decided to write this book and how you wrote it and all that.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and then we'll go into the deeper questions.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm a Dr.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okocha, and I'm an author of Custody MD, Fighting for the Woo.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: I basically wrote the book initially for selfish reasons because I wanted my children to know the real story as to what happened, and that I did not give up on them, and that I fought every, you know, battle and I fought tooth and nail for them.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's initially started off as this is something for my children to know about me, their mom, because I didn't know what the outcome was going to be at the time.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I had started it a while ago, but it did take five years because, again, I was still within the thralls of the you know custody battle.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: So afterwards, I realized that it actually was a beacon of hope for a lot of other women.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when I started to have women come to me saying that they read the book.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that was, of course, afterwards, but it just really made me realize like this is not just for personal selfish reasons.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: This is a a greater, you know, good that I'm trying to tap into.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: So um that was like the gist of it.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_05: I completely agree.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_05: That's awesome.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so in this book, you're talking you have five children right now, currently, correct?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's correct.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so she had three was about the three kids are about the in the book, and then you have two now with a husband, a new husband, and two kids with him, correct?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yes.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well well it's complicated, but yes.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_05: But that's the this book is about the three kids, but and we're gonna really focus on going through the battle and then also how you came up and out of it, because I'm still stuck in the battle, and um, and I think it's so important for people to understand the pain you went through because we've all gone through it, and then how did you come back up, right?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_05: How did you survive?
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_05: So okay, so let me ask you this question before we talk about the courtroom stuff.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_05: Let's take go, let's go back to your homeless as a single mom before medical school.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_05: How did that woman fight her way to become a doctor?
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: So uh that was just the community that I had.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: That was my uh support team.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: That was people pushing me because, you know, I was smart, you know, I had that, but being smart alone is not gonna uh get you to become a doctor.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's not enough.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta have like, you know, uh motivation.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta be able to stay up for long hours of the night and as well as taking care of a little one.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I was saying.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: My first daughter's with my college, uh, you know, that she's a grown woman.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like she's 25 now.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: But like, yeah, so she was way before any of the other kids.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the one that I was, you know, trying to raise.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: And after I had her, I was just like, uh, who has time for medical school?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is just not and to be a mom, a present mother at the same time, it's not realistic, but it wasn't just my parents, you know, my family.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was also friends, it was community leaders who were just like, oh no, you're not putting that to waste.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: You already finished all the pre-med requisites.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: You might as well just continue to, you know, push forward.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: So that really helped.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, you when in her in your book, you talk about all the long hours and not seeing your daughter that much, and you're the support for your daughter, which was wonderful and amazing.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_05: I I, you know, I just moved here and now I have a community that helped me, and it's so amazing that community needs to help people, and it's hard to find that nowadays.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, nowadays, I mean, this was back in 2000, early 2000.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it was, yeah, it was a lot easier, but something has changed significantly to find your I don't know if it's COVID or what.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: We're more isolated, yeah, yeah.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_05: Like we're comfortable with being isolated because we had to be isolated for so long.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it is still possible to find your people, but it is a lot harder.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I will have to, you know, bring up that caveat.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's the the honest God truth.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like people were more closely knit during that time.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_05: I'm trying to the other day on my birthday, I had people that have lost their children gone through what I've gone through show up.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_05: And all of a sudden I'm like, we actually have a community now in family court.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_05: You know, you have AA that has their communities, and then then they're, you know, everyone has now because people are finally getting vocal about this and talking that people, I'm like, you guys now we have our own community support system, and it only we understand each other.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: No one can understand what any of this is about, right?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Unless you've been through it.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_05: So how did you go homeless?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_05: You were you how did you get homeless?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_05: You were in college, you got pregnant, and then you got homeless.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_05: Did you live with your parents?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I lived with my parents, and we had a spat about raising my child because my mom, of course, she's my mom, so she looks at me like I'm just like, What do you you think you can raise a child?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: I raised you.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like, no, mom, I'm I'm the mother now.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's hard to see me as that.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we did kind of like get into a little tit, you know, a little tat.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and she kind of told me to kick rocks.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, if you think you're so big and bad, make it out on your own.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's why I really didn't want to consider it homeless because you know, I I did live with my parents after that, but it was very humbling because I had just graduated from Northwestern.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: I have this degree from this prestigious university.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, what is going on?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I I just have to call it what it is um and not sugarcoat it.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: I was on the streets, so uh at least I did have a vehicle.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: I do remember that.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember that I feel like that is helpful.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't recommend, you know, that people live in their cars, but if it's all that you got, you gotta use it.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I completely agree.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_05: So you changed the kind of doctor that you were going to be so you would have more time with your daughter, your kids.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_05: What did being a mom mean to you back then before anyone was judging you?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I actually made that decision um when I was married to my ex before we even had children.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we had come into some fertility issues.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we were told that his semen count was um abnormal.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then also I had uh was diagnosed with PCOS.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: So they told us like more than likely what you'll have to do is in vitro.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I just knew I said, Oh, well, I already had one kid.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I just knew I was like, and we're gonna have a kid.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: So we had to revamp and do our own kind of thing because we were both uh residents at the time, so we didn't have that kind of money.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: We're out here working hours for you know peanuts.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_05: So um additional hormones that come with in vitro.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, oh yeah, oh yeah.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the the cost was the the like.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um so we decided to do that, but because I knew that we were planning for children, I was like, okay, we both can't be surgeons.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's just I know that there's two surgeon households.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think there was this one neurosurgeon and her husband's a neurosurgeon, and they have like seven kids and they make it work.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, I was like, um, I can't.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I had to step back.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: What I feel is, you know, step back and just think about what other options are available before I continue to go down this path.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't regret it.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Even though me and my ex didn't work out, I don't regret it at all.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_05: So you went from being a surgeon to just a family physician, correct?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, cool.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_05: Uh yeah, I think that's the best job.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_05: My my favorite doctor is my family physician, and I love her.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think I have a personality for a surgeon.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_05: My sister's a doctor, and she could she could, she like, I guess you test to see what you should specialize in.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_05: And she was so smart um that she got got to be, they wanted her to be a brain surgeon.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_05: And um, she decided to be a family physician.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's so beautiful.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Now, a lot of people, uh a lot of physicians stay away from family um practice only because like the student loans are astronomical, so they want those high-paying, you know, um fields so that they can pay their student loans off.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_05: But yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_05: She's got a lot.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_05: She's got a lot.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_05: Um, okay.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_05: The book starts on the worst day of your life, watching your daughter being led away after the verdict.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_05: What was going through your head in the moment?
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so uh basically, I have to be honest.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: When it happened, I didn't write about this in the book, but when it happened, I kind of already knew that that was going to be the outcome.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because my ex told me when I had uh told him that I wanted a divorce, that he was going to take the children away.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I knew that he definitely was going to take the children away.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was a matter of time because he was still in uh fellowship.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I knew that he um wanted to focus on his education because that was always paramount to him, his job, his education.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so in that time, I knew that the time I had with my children was um brief.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: I knew that it was going to be a temporary thing because I knew that once he finished and once he got money, he was coming at me full force.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because he's one of those people, like a lot of doctors, who can buy time and plan things out for years.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so when it came, it was like, here we are.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I was not surprised about the verdict.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was hoping that after the way things went down, that people could see, but I I knew it didn't matter.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: He he was gonna get the kids one way or another, and he ultimately did.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_05: So you met uh in the book, you go in great detail how he swooned you and moved, you know, got all this awesome stuff to take vacations.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_05: Go ahead and take us through the process of meeting him and then when you guys got married.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, I I don't want to give away too much from the book, but when I first met him, I didn't remember him.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't remember?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I think that really burned him because he kind of makes jokes about it.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, when I I first saw you, you were looking so pretty, and you were sitting in the medical school, you know, class, and we were talking about this book, and you didn't even notice me.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like uh, you know, it made me feel bad because I I try to remember people that just like uh and I just had to be honest with them, like, no, I didn't, but I eventually noticed him because I think it was fate.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: We were put together as lab partners in a group, and so that's when I really started to notice him.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but he was very quiet, very shy.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he kept to himself, but I thought that was super cute.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm used to the cocky guy, arrogant, stick your chest out kind of you know, bravado um male.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: And he was he was completely opposite, which I thought was sweet at the time.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_05: That's funny you say that because when I first met my ex-husband, um, I was wearing big heels and I'm 5'7 and he's five nine, and I was wearing like four-inch heels, so I was like towering, and I remember looking down to him and he was trying to pass me his number, and I was like, dude, you're like I look like a nerd and you're short.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_05: Like and so um I always I he yeah, he did the kind of the same thing in your story in your book to me, was I was just kind of like um get out of here, my face is shorter.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I said that, but he's shorter than me.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_05: Like Willie, well, I kind of figure because it's it's not this authnicity, you know?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_05: Um they're usually shorter, but you'll guys have to find out who are what type of family she got married into and stuff.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_05: So um I would love to see a picture of your kids.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_05: They both are gorgeous.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Of course I think so.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_05: Um okay, so you got married.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_05: How long did you guys date before you got married?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_05: I we don't have if you don't want to go too much into detail, that's fine.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um no, that's an interesting point because we dated for years um prior to getting married.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:20
  unknown: Wow.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: And hindsight, that's something that I do not recommend.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_05: Like, if they're not asking you to marry, like how long was it before your ex Oh, mine, well, mine I was a second marriage, but uh we six months.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_05: He found he was 10 years older, so he found a 23-year-old young girl, you know, that's a Christian woman that he had a daughter that would love to be a stepmom that wanted tons of kids.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_05: So he knew like I was the one and only person he could get.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_05: So he not to me too fast.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_05: So I did it too fast.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_05: They they say that you should wait like eight months at least, um, because after those eight months your hormones go down, so then you actually see the red flags better.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: What six months?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so our marriage, yeah, so our honeymoon he changed like that.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, uh yeah, too soon and too long.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: There has to be a sweet point.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: But it was four years.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_05: How did you do how long did you date your second husband?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, oh, for him, one year.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's the balance.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, if you don't know what you want, no, I didn't have to give him any ultimators or anything.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: He just, you know, had proposed.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_04: Good.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_04: Good.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_05: Um, okay, so then after you got married and then you had two kids, you had troubles having children, when did it start breaking down?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_05: How I guess we won't, you don't have to tell us how it ended or what happened, but when did you start seeing there were problems that you might have to exit for him to leave?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, um, after the second child, and then definitely after the third child, and he wanted to keep having babies.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like, I want to be honest.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: The first, you know, our first baby, my eldest son, my only son, he was amazing with him.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: He was hands-on, he was changing diapers, and I was just like, Yeah, like how many men do this?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, even his own mother was commenting, like how her husband, his father, never did any of those things.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: So he seems really excited about it.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so it wasn't until the second, and then I started to wonder if it was cultural because he is Taiwanese and the first one's a boy, so he was, you know, they they do have treasure.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, boys.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, he treats him like a king to this day.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: He like worships him, but the girls, oh, once I started having girls, he just kind of he just 180.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that shocked me.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: And other people started to notice too.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, poor girl.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: But in my culture, girls are a prize, they're a prize.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: You want to have girls, like that is the biggest blessing.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, your culture is awesome too, because women, you guys are more prone to have multiples because you guys are the ones that lay more eggs.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_05: Did you know that?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_05: Maybe it's better at facts.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the the West Africans, yeah.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_05: God wanted more of you and more of you, so that's why you see that.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_05: It's awesome.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_05: I have twins too, by the way.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but oh wow.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um is it in your family?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and it's uh they're identical in my family.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_05: And people used to think identical wasn't genetic, but I don't think they had the history like they do now because my dad's side, he's he had uncles that were identical.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_05: No one knew they were identical though, you know, because back in the day um they looked alike, but and then my mom's side had it.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_05: So I knew one of my siblings were gonna have identical twins, and I told God, you better give me those twins because I'm the only one that wants mom.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_05: So he he gave me the identical twin girls I've always wanted and got rid of my ex the same month.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, he left me when I was pregnant with my twins.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_05: So um but anyway, so okay, so then the girls situation, you're right, that culture is very like not very good with like girls.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_05: Um and so hopefully your daughters have found somebody like this are they close to their dad?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh one is actually, and the other is struggling.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: She is struggling.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_05: I know that's hard.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and then okay, so you saw some things happening, and then when did the hell start?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I think I think one time, I don't know, um, I started exercising, working out.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: I've already always done aerialerobics um because one of the issues with fertility I felt was my weight was significantly higher than when I lived in Illinois.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like I came to Texas and I was just eating.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: The food is good here.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that me starting to do dancing, I started to get into more kind of like uh aerial silks, all of these different things.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think he started to feel like, you know, um insecure.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think I've always kind of made him feel insecure, to be honest.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: But once I really started working on myself and my weight, and I was trying to get him to also come into the gym with me and work out, he once came to me and he threatened me and he said, if you cheat on me, I will kill you.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I was like, why would anybody say that?
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like all you know, I do is take care of the kids, drop them off at school, go to work, come home, you know, pick up the kids, work on my notes.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just where did this come from?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was very eerie too, because for someone to, you know, say they love you and then they threaten you in such a way, and I'm just like, I thought about it, like when we first started dating before we got married, you cheated on me.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I I didn't say, Oh, I I'm gonna kill you.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, I don't take threats like that lightly.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_05: Um I usually always tell my ex-husband, if you cheat on me, go for it because I won't be here anymore.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, just leave me.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if that like not that I had cheating on the radar, but I'm just like for him to have said that.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: So then I started walking on eggshells after that.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_05: And um I just realized too, some guys project what they want to do.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_05: So, like my ex kept saying I was cheating, and I'm like, here, I'm pregnant every year, I'm always home, you know where I'm at, but he was cheating the whole time.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's like, where do I find like can you sit down and think about like when do I have the time to cheat?
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like, do I have to have time for a libido?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_03: Come on.
• 21:08
  unknown: Exactly.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_05: No, I get it.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, sorry.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_05: So then um he was always and felt inferior to you.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_05: He wasn't a confident man.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_05: He sounds like a narcissistic, and you didn't say that in your book, I don't think, but he sounds very much like that.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I tried to stay away from that.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um because like yeah, he hasn't been diagnosed.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_05: I could say it, but you didn't say it.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_05: I don't say it about mine either.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_05: But people have said things to me.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, he just sounds like that.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he's a cardiothoracic surgeon, so yeah.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_05: But to me, it's like, how is he insecure of you?
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_05: Because he's like that, you know what I mean?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: That that was hard.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: And when it started breaking down and the secure insecurity started to pour out more and more and bubble up, it was like, okay.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not safe.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And when my safety is compromised, I need to start backing away and start thinking of ways that I can get out of this.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: And the saddest thing is that when I told my family, when I told friends, well, okay, my friends did understand and believe, and they were just like helping me to find ways out with my family because they were just like, him?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: He's so sweet.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: He's so quiet.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: He's so, you know, like they did not believe me.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: They thought I was mad.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: And he used that to his advantage by trying to make them allies.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: That was very painful.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: So that's when I was like, okay, regardless of if they believe me or not, I know what's going on and how he started to treat me.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it's time for me to get the heck out of Josh.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_05: So you left him then?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm the one who uh filed the divorce papers, but he ultimately packed his things up and left the home and abandoned me with the three kids.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Just like that.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: I came home one day and my eldest daughter, um, who was in high school at the time, she called me, like, you know, dad's packing up everything.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Mom, what is dad doing?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like losing her mind.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then also the nanny that was there at the time, she also called and she was just like, Oh, uh, Dr.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: So-and-so is is leaving.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know, I sometimes I think she thought it was kind of funny that he was like, Um, you'll later find out that she wasn't um a friendly or an ally.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there was some underlying jealousy there.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: And when she reported it to me, it was kind of like, aha, you know, uh, and that's kind of like the way he wanted to show me like, well, if you want to send me divorce papers, I'm gonna show you how much you need me um by leaving.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, how sad.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_05: So um, okay, this is a fun question.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, you're a doctor, you're trained to spot the warning signs of abuse and stress in patients.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_05: Why is it so hard to see those same signs when it's happening to you?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_05: And I think a lot of women can resonate with that because we can tell our friends, leave, this is not right, da-da-da.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_05: But yeah, when it happens to us.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I just feel like I've been conditioned to take a lot.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I'm actually working on another book that talks about my upbringing and my history and some of the things that I went through that my ex was aware of.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: And he even brought it to me at one point that, you know, um, I was like, why were you doing these things to me?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Why did you, you know, decide to um treat me like this?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like he just was so cold.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: And he told me, Well, you've been through so much already.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: I just thought that you can take more.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: And my jaw dropped, because I was like, that's very evil.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, yeah, when you know what I've been through in life, and you're willing to pile on more, and a lot of times, especially being a black woman, you're like, I'm a strong black woman, but there's times when I want to be weak, and I don't want any more of this like uh drama.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: I just want a peaceful, easy coasting life.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: And being an adult, I work hard for that, and so um that just kind of made me think like we deal with so much stress and we put so much on our shoulders, and we don't have to unburden yourselves, talk to someone, get a therapist, you know, talk to your clergy if you're into the church, you know, God, whatever you need to do.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, we we just condition ourselves to take on, you know, everything, and that's not right.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_05: Did having your daughters and your children help keep make you stay longer because of that too?
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: You always question like, should I leave?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the kids they're so young.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: My youngest was like two.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: Two.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so to make that decision when you have a baby baby um it was very difficult.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: But sometimes I say, I wish I would have left sooner.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_05: And I I think I usually I try to tell people that because my children, my oldest was five, and and I had a three-year-old, a one-year-old, and newborn twins.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_05: And yeah, so my oldest.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: You're young.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_05: Uh-huh.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_05: My my every time I try to leave, he got me pregnant.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_05: That's you know, and everyone's like, How did he get you pregnant?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, I know how not to get pregnant.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_05: I've not been pregnant now for 13 years, okay?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_05: Um, it was him.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_05: But um I the oldest is the only one that remembers their dad in bed, right?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_05: Because the other ones are three, one, and so they've only known me.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_05: That's it.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_05: Um, which was kind of nice because we didn't have that, you know, when they're you have a you have an older daughter and they separated, it's kind of hard for the you know, separation and and having to realize, oh, mom's all by herself now and now she's a single mom.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_05: It goes through that your daughter did have that before, but um, but it is easier when they're younger, I would say.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_05: But then you got into the whole when they become older, they're like, Well, I did I don't know if your daughter did this or your kids, but my kids all of a sudden, by the time I turn 10, they started trying to understand why we got divorced, you know.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_05: Then they start asking the questions.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: My kids are there now.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_05: Are they?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_05: And it's like, okay, you're now 10, because it just kept going.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, now you're 10.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, this is what, you know.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, my daughter asked me recently during this summer time that I I had them.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: She was like, Mommy, did you cheat on daddy?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Are you kidding me?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: This is a story that he's telling them.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_05: That's what happened in my case.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_05: I had my kids for 80% for 10 years straight.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_05: And then yeah.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_05: And then as they became teenagers, he started filling their heads up.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_05: And I didn't know that, you know.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_05: And there's a lot of times you they would ask me questions, but as they got older, they started keeping things quiet because he started manipulating them.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_05: Don't tell your mom I told you this.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but that's what happened is they just he just started working on their brains.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I would have thought that it was easier for him to do this kind of stuff when they were younger.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_05: No, I know, and it's not.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_05: I think it's because when kids are younger, they how you act as a mom, like your great mom, you're this.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_05: So if the dad says something negative, or vice versa, then the kids are like, No, my dad's my mom.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_05: You know, it's not until he gets older that they can really be like, well, maybe they are right, you know.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, some of the things that the kids say now, like this is post-book, uh, it's atrocious.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, your dad said that about like he still has so much hatred towards me.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: Even after getting custody of the children, I'm paying child support.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um, he has the courts where I can only see them during a certain time, or I have to go out there to him to see them without my husband.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, so you won.
• 29:29
  unknown: Yeah.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: But you're still angry.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: You're still speaking.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_05: He's still controlling you.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: So this is what you wanted, right?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: But yet, you know, you're still speaking negatively about me to the kids, which is just really icky.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's where we're at right now.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: I I noticed what you're saying.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, as they're getting older, it's getting worse.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and I think that's where my story is a little different.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that's why yours is yours happened at the beginning.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_05: Well, mine did happen at the beginning too, but um, I won.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_05: And not one, I hate to say one, but the judge said.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: I know that's why I put the air quotes.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_05: Like, yeah, the judge saw the truth.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_05: He saw that he all he all he wanted to do was date and play around and get a nanny to watch the children.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_05: So the judge saw I gave my all to my kids.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_05: So I got 80%, but then he's you could tell he was angry, so angry.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_05: And I you know, I didn't have a man in my bed ever.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_05: My kids, you know, my kids have never seen me in a bed with a man at all.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I I chose my children, 100%.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_05: They were all so close in age and so little.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, I only have a little bit of time.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_05: I'm not gonna waste it on, you know.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_05: I would go on dates.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how you only had time to Yeah.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I would try to go on dates every other weekend, but as I got older and how crazy it was, um, I was exhausted by Friday, so I had to stop dating then.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_05: But but that's what he did.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_05: Then he controlled them and the court system with the money and got them all taken away.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, as as and older.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_05: Um I dropped him off for school and never saw him again two years ago.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_05: Never.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_05: And then it was a mile away.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_05: So my story is about going through the trauma that you did, but then I and then doing it again.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_05: So I've been in court for 13 years.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_05: So I have a 30-page divorce decree and everything, but yet he moved state, started all over, and then he convinced um the court to lies and no one even questioned me.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, I haven't seen him.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_05: My my actually today's my son's birthday.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_05: He turned 16 today.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_05: I haven't seen him in two years.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_05: So be careful.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_05: I mean that that's one reason too.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_05: Children, kids, your kids need to know that like talk about my story, you know, so they can see that it it happens.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that's Yeah, I'm waiting on your book.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_05: I well, I actually designed the album.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_05: I was gonna show you the cover after we get off.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_05: I love your help on it to see, but um, but and I can't, I have no trial, nothing.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_05: Um so my story's weird because it shows how even though you went through the pain when they're little, like I did too, they can they still come back and try to control you.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, I I was I told my kids like you guys really took me for granted because they come back and they tell me the stories like, oh, if we still lived with mom, we would be doing soccer.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: If we still live with mom, we would be doing swimming.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: I had them in so many activities and sports, and they're not doing any of that now.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like he just has a nanny raising them, which the courts knew about and they were okay with.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so the kids are starting to realize like what kind of mom I am, what kind of mom I was when I had custody of them.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_05: I remember.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_05: So you don't have any.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_05: So what is the schedule with you guys?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I only get them when they have school breaks, and I do get them now.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: For some years, I wasn't able to get them for the summer, but I got them for five weeks this summer.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's supposed to be six, but he asked the courts to reduce it to five for whatever reason.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: I have I don't know.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: And they said, okay.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, so whatever little time I can get with them, you know, we alternate the holidays.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so one of those kind of schedules.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: And the fact that you mentioned that your ex moved out of state, it's like, do they have a playbook that they go by?
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's what my ex did.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: He moved out of state without the children and left them here with a nanny.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: And he was able to do that.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you're not supposed to move out of state.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, he was first right of refusal in your divorce.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, he got he got rid of that specifically.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's insane.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_05: My ex married his nanny that he had on, you know, in the little, and she was all out to get me and take my kids.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and she got them.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_05: But I mean, I have a 45-minute um cop police cop video camera of her, it's her friend, of her saying, All I want you to do is get her arrested so I can take her twins and peace on, peace out.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_05: So I had two people going after me, and so that's where, you know, my poor children when they're at the house, you know, have two people talking bad about their mom, you know, making applies and stuff.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_05: So um it's severe.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_05: So it's glad at least he didn't have a girl, but um, I'm surprised he hasn't found a woman yet.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: He's been through several.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: Are you kidding me?
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_05: I knew it.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_05: I knew it.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_05: I could have nailed that one.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's like usually it's the woman who is the one who has a revolving harem of uh men coming in and out when they're single moms, or you know, that's not the case.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: I've been stable, same guy.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but he's had like four or five.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: He has one now that's been around for some time, but he calls her his domestic partner.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I don't I don't think he plans on ever getting married again.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: But he did tell the children that he got married because um I guess so he doesn't look like he's living in sin.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but legally, are they really married?
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I just couldn't bring it up to the kids, like he's your dad's not married.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: He had told them that one summer when they were with me, they decided to go to the courthouse and get married.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: I was just like, so yeah, he he's tried.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: He's tried.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_05: He'll say whatever he needs to say to show his side of the story, you know, make himself look good.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's what happened to my kids, the whole divorce.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_05: That's just the nanny, just the nanny.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_05: Even my divorce decree judge put in there that it's just the nanny, but yet she spends the night when the kids aren't there, and that was funny.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_05: And then right after the divorce, it's a surprise wedding, the kids are in pajamas and they get married in the living room.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_05: It really upset the kids because they were so confused because they've been what con yeah, constantly like, no, it's a nanny.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_05: We're not in a relationship, we're not in a relationship, and then all of a sudden they get married.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_05: So Oh, and my divorce decree it says she can't even be my kid's caregiver because of her trying to put me in jail and making up lies about me.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_05: I had to get a criminal attorney and everything.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_05: And no one cared.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_05: He married her and it's like, oh well now she's a stepmom, so she can be a caregiver.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I have to ask, are they even still together?
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_05: Well, the only reason they're together is because so she lived in like she drove a nasty little car, she was a nurse and had a little apartment, and he has tons of money.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_05: And so you know now she drives a hundred thousand dollar car, she you know, she has a ton of money, and then she now has my kids.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_05: So, but I have proof that and evidence that he's tried to kill her multiple times because he's got a horrible anger, and um and so I know she's only there just because of my kids' the money, yeah.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_05: Oh yeah, and the the babies and the kids, yeah, that's her pride and joy.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, right before they were taken, she did all their dance competition stuff, wouldn't let me help with costumes.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I'm literally I go into my children's Halloween parties and she's sitting there right by my kids, so I can't even sit next to my children.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, it she was like off the wall, um, like hand the rocks the cradle type, you know?
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: What do they call it?
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: Destiny swapping, like she wanted to be you.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yep.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_05: And she looks a lot like me.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um god, it's even more cringe, like you can't even find someone who you'll have yeah.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_05: It's actually the video is pinned on the top of my Instagram on Stand with May.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_05: You'll it's like the second video, I think it is, and it's her, it's her and the cop.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so that was crazy time.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: And some people think it's you.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, of course that you know, there's always a camp, there's a campaign against me.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know if you have had that with your book, but people have can't I mean my ex has paid money for people, and I have a very bad and strained sister to completely try to tear her me, tear me down with lies and all this stuff.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_05: And I gave my kids drugs, I did this, and I'm like, Your biological sister?
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_05: Oh yeah.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_05: Uh-huh.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_05: It's called they call it stand down meg.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_05: She went from 72 followers on TikTok to now she I just saw the other day.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_05: She's 112,000 followers on TikTok all bashing me.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, all she does is make fun of me, bash me, make up lies.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_05: I guess I have a boyfriend in New York, and I'm not real I mean, all this stuff is hilarious.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_05: She's always wanted to be popular on social media.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_05: So when she saw I was eight.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, she's eight years younger.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_05: So by the time she was 10, I was out of the house.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, we never had that fights as sisters because I was so much older than her.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but you and they I've had that, I have a huge family.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_05: So like there's five of them that my mom and dad got divorced later in life.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_05: And so they chose to talk bad about my mom and lie in court, and I'm like, I'm not picking a side.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but then they my kids love my mom.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_05: So then it got in a situation to where my sisters didn't like that.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_05: My kids saw my mom, and then they would talk bad about my mom, and you know, so I five so I haven't seen her in like four almost five years now.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but she's still blabbing about me on social media, and my ex are telling her all these lies, so that's funny.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't even have any interaction with her.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, I would bring it up.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I don't even talk about it because if I talk about it online, that's giving her more followers, you know.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_05: And so have you had any negative stuff since your book came out and everything?
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, I had a a group of nannies, which I call the nanny cartel, who were um just spewing all types of untruths about me.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: The only thing about it is they testified on the stand.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, these people, the nannies, you know, I don't even use the nanny anymore for my young one now because I'm so traumatized and PTSD.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: But their their issue was it was multiple of them.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: There were three of them, and their lies weren't even consistent.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: So when they were on a stand, one lady was like, she never has any food, the kids are always starving, they're begging for morsels.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then another nanny was like, she always has the fridge plenty and open, and there's always so it's like, which one is it?
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you guys can't even keep your lies straight.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and then one of them, like, oh, um, her her current husband beats them.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: I saw him beating them, and it's just like, and you didn't call CPS at the time, like you waited until you were fired, and then you, you know, started saying abuse, like, yeah, so I've had some evil, nasty people plotting and planning.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: They were conniving, they were like getting together, and it was just too much because I'm just like, all I did was be nice to you, all I did was be good to you.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I employed you and I mean I gave them pay time off, you know, I did all these things, and you know, that's how I was repaid.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I had no clue that it was coming, but he actually got to them and employed them to do this, but they just weren't cohesive.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_05: I was just like that's what they do, is they either pay or convince um people to lie about you, and um, and that's what my ex has done, and it never stops until the kids realize it.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_05: Um but that's why you like like you, you just be the same mom.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I had CPS at my house every year that I don't dress my kids well now, there's no food in the house.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_05: Even the day they got taken, the judge read off this whole fake report that said, I have no food in my house, I don't feed my kids, all these lies.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_05: Um and then when I'm like emptying out my kids' rooms to give his wife all my kids stuff, my daughter has this little shelf and it's full of snacks, bubbly, all this.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, my pantry was full of food, so it's just um it's the same thing, you know.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_05: Um that just that's why I'm I'm gonna take this filming court system down because there's no laws of evidence.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, here's the thing if those nannies were on the stand and they lied, they should be held in contempt of court for lying.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, there's not.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, there was no repercussions for them, you know.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: No, the judge acknowledged that they were lying and that they weren't helpful to the case, and he said it specifically like even without the nannies, you know, we still have found you to be not fit to be the mother and um, you know, the to have custody, be the custodial parent anymore.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_05: So when did this happen?
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_05: This this round of like how when was your thing final?
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: 2021.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_05: So you haven't had your kids full-time since 2021?
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's correct.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, actually a little bit before that, since 2020, because of the pandemic.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_05: Um yeah, that's my next question.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_05: During COVID, you were caring for patients all day while you couldn't see your own children.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_05: On the outside, you looked like you were holding it together.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_05: What was really going on inside?
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it was difficult because sometimes my mind would veer off.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm human.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, like when patients really need me and they're telling me about like the worst day in their life, telling me about their illnesses, you know, I would just be like, if you only knew what I was going through right now.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you can't start sitting there talking about yourself when the patients are needing you.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I had to kind of like, you know, push whatever I was going through down and bury it, which is not healthy.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: It is not healthy and I don't recommend it.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um my poor doctor, I cry to her a lot.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm not crazy.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_05: I'm just it was a bad day, and I'm just and I just wail it out on her.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, but you can as a doctor as a work and work.
• 43:41
  unknown: No.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_05: Well, and that's the problem.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_05: I was I was talking that not only do you lose tons of financial, you can it hurts your job because you if you if you don't act a certain way, you can lose your job, and it's hard emotionally.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you gotta be focused.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's to the detriment of your emotional.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: And mental health, I will say.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I did start speaking to some of my work colleagues, and that helped because some of the women shared with me that they went through the same thing.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it's people that I worked with for like two to three years, and we never even knew.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I wish that I could have said something sooner, but because of the embarrassment of what I was going through, I just kept it to myself.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that was another reason why I wrote this book because I'm just like, we need to talk about this.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they're banking on.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: The family courts are banking on us being embarrassed and ashamed and not saying anything to anybody.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I just appreciate you and your platform.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm just like, keep going.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_05: Everyone is affected.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_05: It's not me, it's everyone.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_05: And that's what you what you did.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_05: I was so excited when they reached out to me to talk to you because you're doing the same thing.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_05: And and but we all if we all come together like this, like that's what how we change.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_05: And and hopefully there's less suicides, you know, because women and men they they they hurt themselves over it.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, your children, you're playing with the most vulnerable, like you're playing with my kids.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, I can go mad, I can go ham on you, you know.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like what are you doing?
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_05: That is like you can take away your home, your income, your career, anything.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_05: But the only thing you have in your life when you die is your legacy, your children.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so during COVID, you're trying to hold it together.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_05: I interrupt you, sorry.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_05: And then what happened with that?
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_05: You're upset, you're trying to hold it in.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yes.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: You just just gonna try to keep on pushing forward and keep practicing good medicine.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was a surprise one year because I didn't see my children for a whole entire year.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_05: Um you know that feeling then.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_05: That's hard, in it.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was brutal.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: It was unnecessary too, because they had lied and said that I had violated some of the um court orders, and I had proof that no, I didn't, but they could care less.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: And um while I was going through that, then I completely poured myself into my job, into my work as an escape, and I got physician of the year that year.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of bittersweet because I was really on top of it, but it was just kind of out of survival, and um because I'm a very present mother since day one.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've always been heavily involved, like helping them with projects because you know I like to do crafts and things like that, like taking them to school.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_05: Um did he get your oldest?
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_05: Sorry, did he take your oldest too, the one that's not even his father?
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, no, she was an adult, so she was outside of that.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like he probably he probably tried to because he started buying her, like he bought her this beautiful prom dress, and um, he bought her this computer, like yeah, so I see what you what you're saying, uh-huh, about teenagers.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's what he was trying to do.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then he cried.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_05: My son drives a$70,000 car.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: He told her he was gonna get her a Tesla.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_04: So I can't believe it.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_04: I can barely buy groceries because all I do is advocacy.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_01: And they're teenagers, they're kids, so that is very enticing to them.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I was very fortunate because my daughter didn't fall for it.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, she did take some of the stuff that he initially gave, but it got to a point where she saw that he was using her to get information on me, to keep tabs on me.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it got to a point where she was just like, okay, no, this isn't right.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so she took a step back and she was like, No, I don't want any more of your hush money and your bribes.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and she luckily stood by me because she did recall the abuse that she went through with him.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like some of the things that he did to her.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he he doesn't like physically, uh I don't even know how to explain it.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like what he does is subtle and it's it's very insidious.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_05: It's actually, they say it's like one of the worst forms of abuse because it's a silent killer, it's a silent end, you know, it's not all out in the open.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_05: And little kids' brains can't handle, you know, don't understand um it.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_05: And even like probably you too, even how much I could not stand my ex and what he did to me and all the abuse did to me, I would never keep my kids away from him.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_05: Anytime my son wanted to go to Chiefs game with his dad or go to a car show or go on a trip, I let him go.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_05: I let them go.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_05: I never withheld them.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_05: Um it's pretty sad.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_05: Um, in the middle of this, you got seriously ill and delivered a baby early.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_05: What did that season teach you about what your body can take?
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, to be honest, the fact that I even got pregnant, I was over 40.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: I am over 40, but to get pregnant at over 40, me and my husband didn't expect to have any children together.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um it kind of sounds like what then the nanny that married your ex, does she have any children of her own?
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_05: She does have older children, but what happened was that she divorced.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_05: Well, she went through divorce with her first husband and had two kids, but she was off going around from man to man to man to man to man that she was never involved in their lives.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_05: It wasn't until she got money, like her she had one, and then then she got money, and then you could tell she regretted not being in her kids' lives.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, in hindsight.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_05: She wanted to redo it pretty much.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: I I just suspected that that she didn't have any children with your ex.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um no, no, no.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_05: She's got no kids with my ex.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_05: I'm sorry, no.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: No, but um, so me and my husband were okay with the the children that you know I had.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: I already came into the picture with uh four kids.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so we were going through this ordeal where they tried to put my husband in jail, they tried to lock him up, like it was extremely stressful.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: They wanted us to pay all these fees to the court and like pay a bond.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: And he gave me like um, I think three years in jail if I didn't do these things.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was insane.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually still, under all of that, was able to get pregnant, but I guess the stress was so much that I had what it's called a placental abruption, where like the placentas kind of like yes, and there was blood everywhere.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: It looked like uh I hate to say it, but like a murder scene.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I had delivered four children already, all normal vaginal deliveries, but this one had to be an emergency C-section.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, but it was throughout all of this.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_05: How many weeks were you?
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, um, she was about 36 weeks, so she's considered premature, but you know, I was close.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: I was close.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_05: My twins were my twins were 35-5.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's not bad for twins.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_05: No, and we had to induce me because um they were Modi twins, so they only had one placenta, so we had a plan early on that list.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so that was always the plan, right?
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you have to.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_05: You can't go past three six weeks, is where your placenta, like you, just go sometimes, um, especially with identical twins or twins that have the same placenta.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, so yeah, we did it at 35, but they were in the NICU for two weeks.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_05: Was your daughter in the NICU at all?
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, uh no, just one day.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, one day, and then she was good.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so she yeah, she did well despite it all.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was me that we were worried that I was gonna uh bleed out, but I know it had to do with the amount of stress that I was under.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: It was a significant amount, and uh she's just my miracle baby.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, I had a friend, she had three kids going through the same thing we are.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_05: Um lost her kids too, and um she sees them here and there, like has this very little schedule.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_05: But uh, she one time all of a sudden her uterus just fell out because of all the stress.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_05: And they say that can happen to women, and I think that's gonna be what happened to you.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_05: Like you're you have some of the hormone that you're producing and it doesn't stop and all of a sudden you just so yeah.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it affects, I mean, everything.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't take it anymore.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_05: You got married um and you weren't planning on having a baby.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_05: Um right?
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_05: So that was during that was yeah.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_05: So your daughter that was born is your last daughter, right?
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_05: With your new husband.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_05: How old is she?
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: She's three now.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, I thought she's so pretty.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think so.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_05: That was awesome.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_05: I'm waiting for my man.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_05: How did you meet your man?
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: So this is the thing.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my ex took the kids, you know, once we um were going through the divorce, he was able to get them for the summer because I'm the one who filed for divorce, and so I had them the majority.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: And he barely visited them, he barely spent any time with them.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: The thing is, when he got them for the summer, he wanted to send them to his mom's in another state in Illinois, while we live in Texas.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I tried to fight that.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: I was just like, what is the meaning of that?
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's like he himself is not going to be with the children.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_01: So why did the courts allow it?
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: They said, well, he can do whatever he wants when it's his time.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I was still nursing my youngest one.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: She was too, but she was still, you know, nursing.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I was just like, and she was still in diapers, and his parents are elderly.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I was just like, you guys don't do this.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: But of course, ultimately, he was able to send them off for the whole entire summer.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I had a counselor at the time, and of course, I went through a depression because I'm not used to my children, you know, staying somewhere for that's very horrible.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, mine's hard.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_05: Ours are hard when they're older, but oh my gosh, that's horrible.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_05: I'm so sorry.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: It made no sense to me.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, she had advised me, she was just like, well, just go on one of those apps and start dating.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I hadn't dated in years.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I was just like, oh, it's kind of scary out there.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like you hear these stories of these men just, you know, abusing women and doing this and doing that.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just like, uh, I think I'm gonna hold off on that.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_01: And she was an elderly woman, so it was surprising, you know, surprising for her to recommend it to me.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then one day, you know, she was just like, I think, you know, you don't know how to live without your children, like outside of working your kids.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like she was like, there's nothing wrong.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like, go ahead and just do something for yourself.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was like, I exercise, I work out, I do aerial sports, you know, I do this.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, I got enough on my plate.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but finally it got to a point where like the third week and no kids, his parents wouldn't let me speak to them.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: I would call, call, call, call.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think they were starting to like um get so annoyed with me, but I was just like, I didn't know what to do with myself without my kids.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I finally went onto one of those dating apps and uh I met my husband.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I didn't know he was my husband at the time, but yeah, I got out of that fear.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, do I recommend it for my daughters and stuff like that?
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still a little leery.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, in my case, it worked out, but uh I'm still not trustful of those dating apps.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_05: Well, you are also a grown woman, you know, and had a lot of history, so I think it is different.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, you I mean, I've been on those dating apps for 13 years, on and off, on and off, on and off.
• 56:17
  unknown: Uh-huh.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_05: And uh I get on because I'm like, oh come on.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_05: And then I'm like, oh, get off.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh a love-hate relationship with them.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_05: Cause I'm like, man, I need to finally try to find somebody, but um, so I know one day I'll find them, but I'm not worried about it.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um Yeah, I think the best is uh through like recommendation.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I just told God, God, put them in front of my face because I don't have time to, you know, do all that.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_05: And and I I do believe God wanted me to change a little bit.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_05: I've grown a lot and changed, you know, because it and and I knew he wanted me to do this mission.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and and so I would not be able to do this if I had a guy.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_05: Cause this is all I do every day.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_05: There's no weekends, there's no holidays.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_05: I'm always on my computer doing things.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_05: I don't have a life.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_05: Uh I'm trying to do that.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_05: So that is one thing too, I want to ask you because a lot of parents go through that.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_05: And I've just I I'm going through it hard time.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_05: Uh hard.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_05: When I can't go out and enjoy myself, like I'll go out with my chickens or go spend time with my mom and my step and dad.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_05: But um, but I don't, it's I feel guilty for going out and having fun because I lost my kids.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_01: That guilt, like me, even moving on and uh finding a uh, you know, uh another relationship, it's like you do, you feel, yeah, you feel guilty.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't deserve this.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_01: You want to punish yourself in a way, but you can't do that.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you're already getting punished enough by the ex.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you should be able to enjoy life and enjoy things.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I say, like, you know, if you get your your nails done, get a massage, do stuff for you to make you feel better despite it all.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I know what you brought up is just so so critical, so crucial because it's like, yeah, I I lost custody of my kids and I just need to wallow in this, you know, despair, this puddle of despair.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: But that's not right and it's not fair because they get to move on, they get to remarry and have a life and you know, do this all the while making your life miserable.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_05: How did you start doing that?
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_05: Did it help when you found a man that you enjoy being around to get you to get out and do stuff for yourself?
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because you know, I hadn't done that.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then the kind of marriage that I had, we weren't doing fun stuff together.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was just it was like I had a roommate.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it was almost like the first time in my first experience, and I explained it to my husband too, because he saw that I was doing a lot of stuff on my own.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_01: I was taking out the garbage, doing this, doing that.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_01: He was just like, Why?
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I was fixing things in the house because I didn't have that before.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_01: I've never experienced that before.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_01: So he was like, You're so independent, you're doing all these things, and I'm here.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't know how to rely on him.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I was like, I was glad that he's very vocal and he talks about these things because I'm not knowingly like, yeah, I don't need a man, I don't need, but that's just how I was in a marriage.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_01: I was a single woman in a marriage.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, well, that's good to know.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_05: I've been trying to do that.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_05: When did you decide, okay, I'm writing the book?
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_01: Once the smoke cleared a little, and I can't say that it completely cleared because my kids are still minors, so we're still in the thick of things.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, with the nanny fiasco, my friends were like, you need to write a book.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is unheard of.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, three nannies uh corroborating against you, lying about abuse, lying that you abuse the children, knowing that you would never put a hand on you, like, I don't even spank them.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_01: But um basically, I wasn't ready then.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I told them, like, yeah, I know it makes for a good book, but I'm not ready.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I had to wait until I was ready.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when I felt like we weren't in and out of the courtrooms.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_01: And also one of the main judges who made some of the most horrible decisions had passed away, and so that kind of made me feel more comfortable.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that you could do it and not be.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I agree.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_01: To be honest, I was just like, okay, now is the time.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because it he is a very powerful judge.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I went to the Supreme Court, I went to the highest of the highs, I went to the Court of Appeals, and it it looked like they were very afraid of this judge, um, for whatever reason.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_05: Well, they all cover each other's ass, I would say.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_05: Um what this is probably a stupid question.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_05: What is woo fighting for the woo?
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you had mentioned it earlier about like when me and my ex first started dating and like the kind of wooing, you know, the courting, that kind of stage.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like um it's a sentimental kind of term, it's endearing.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so basically it has to re it relates to that.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_05: You could change one thing about um how that your case played out.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_05: Uh what was one thing that you would have done differently?
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't have gone with the first lawyer that I um that I had hired.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_01: I I know in the medical community we have the option and the opportunity to have second opinions, but it's kind of hard to do that with uh with you know child custody and family law because you have to give a retainer to pretty much everyone that you talk to.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, you're not even gonna, you gotta pay some kind of fee.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's I mean, it's already costly enough.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_01: But if there was a way that I could have had a second opinion and not gone with the first person's recommendation, I feel that the outcome, yeah, ultimately he still probably would have took the kids because you know, we have the race issue in my case too.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: He's an Asian man who's seemingly docile and calm and peaceful, and you know, and then it's me, the angry black woman, you know.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_02: So angry black woman.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I knew ultimately with the optics of it, they were gonna give him the kids.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_01: And he also knew that as well.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_01: So he played that to his advantage.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I I just feel like it ultimately that was gonna be the outcome.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that makes me mad.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_05: Um let's see.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_05: Where um where what is one thing you can give advice to people to to keep them fighting, to keep them not giving up, and to know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, even though you're still in it.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_01: Just know that I mean God brought you to this point for a reason.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that even though it looks bleak, that He's gonna see you through.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's a reason and there's a purpose for everything.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's you know how I feel, and that's what I gotta keep telling myself.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_01: And you just need to trust the process, even though it's stacked against you and you know it, it's like quite obvious.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_01: But you just gotta keep pushing for it because there's children involved, there's innocent children whose minds are malleable, who can be manipulated, but you can't think about that because you got to just keep on pushing for them.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if every woman who's been through this can write a book about it, I wish they would.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_01: Just because other people need to know about what's going on.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_01: They they need to be aware to keep pushing.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_05: We're trying to stop the we're trying to make a cap.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_05: They need to have a cap on a tour attorney fees and therapy fees and all that.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_05: Because I mean I paid$350,000 for my divorce decree, and then I paid another hundred thousand a year later because of the other one, the same one in Never Court, and then I now I have$80,000 of credit card debt for this one.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_05: So, um, and now I just don't even pay, I don't even pay my credit cards.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's getting out of hand, and they they milk it.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_01: They milk it.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_01: They saw that we both were physicians, even though he makes three times more than what I make, you know, he they have me paying child support because they want me to fight, fight, fight in court, and that just keeps paying the system.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_05: That's what I'm finding.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_05: They are targeting the better parent because when they do that, we never stop fighting, and the more money they get.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_05: And so, you know, it used to be, you know, men always lost back in the day, and I feel bad for it, you know.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_05: And a lot of guys like, well, now you know what it feels like to be a dad.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, look, I didn't support that back in the day.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_05: I was a baby.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_05: Um but but now they're realizing if they target the moms, they make more money.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know?
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I hate to bring this example up.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_01: Me and my girlfriends were talking about it.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, sometimes some people who are like drug addicts, alcoholics, crackheads, you know, they get custody of the children.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, that's purposeful.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_01: They want the children to uh have the other parent who's around fight like crazy because they know that ultimately we will.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_05: Yep, that's what I and it's men and women, because I do believe there's you know really bad women too.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but yeah, any good parent they attack because we won't stop spending the money.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_01: Money, money, money.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_05: Um That's all they care about.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that is.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_05: So that's what I'm trying to stop.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so what would be like Last question I want to ask you is how did you know how to like put the chapters in?
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_05: Give somebody advice that if you want to encourage another parent to write a book, how was like how was your process?
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I did it chronological, as uh as chronological as possible.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I had a lot of court documents to help because I wanted to put factual information, things that were actually said by the judge, like, you know, we rather have your kids raised by a nanny than be raised by you.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just like, who says that?
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if my kids were to ever hear that and then the father was okay with it, he was like, yeah, smiling.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just like, what kind of clown circus stuff is this?
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I just, you know, so that's basically my process of writing the book, um, chronological order.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I did have someone go over it because there are some things that I have put initially, and they're just like, no, you can't put, you can't put that, you gotta take that.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, no, but that's what happened, and that's what I was feeling.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so definitely have somebody look over it.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um I completely agree.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, this could get you in more legal trouble.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think we can because I just poured out my heart and I'm just like, this is the truth, this is what happened.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: They need to know every detail, and sometimes no, they don't.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_05: Did you find it was hard?
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_05: So I struggle when I write mine.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_05: I'll spend sometimes just like a half a day on Saturday and work on it, and it's it's hard, and I don't like how I feel afterwards because I can't believe the what I've gone through so far.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_05: Was it hard for you like that, or was it more of a healing?
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, no, it's it's it's hard, it's painful.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I can't read my book again now um because it just takes me back to that place.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I just I'm glad I wrote it.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's out there, it's for other people to you know take some knowledge and some wisdom and you know gain something from.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_01: But for me personally, I'm good.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_01: I I just don't want to go back to those places.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and yeah, even in the midst of writing it, yeah, I was thinking it's gonna be cathartic and it's gonna be healing and releasing.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_01: In some ways it was.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_01: There's some chapters that are upbeat and uplifting, but there's other chapters that just make my stomach turn.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't want to relive that ever again.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's why I struggle with that.
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_05: That's one reason.
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_05: I wish I could just like give everybody my information, someone write it for me, but okay.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_05: So, where can people follow you?
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_05: Where can they buy the book?
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_05: They can buy it on my website, actually, too.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_05: I have it on my um shop Meg.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so go to standardbank.com and it's on go to Meg Shop and you'll see it on Amazon.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_05: Where else can they purchase it?
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Barnes and Noble.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh also there's Kobo Books.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's uh also I can get you can get it from my website, custodymd.com.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you can also follow me on social media.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_01: I have a TikTok account, CustodyMD, as well as Instagram and uh Facebook, all under the same Custody MD.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_05: Awesome.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_05: That's cool.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_05: Good for you.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_05: I always tell people when they're trying to start something, I go, you need to name everything the same so people can find everything.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_00: It makes it easier.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_05: I hate when I'm trying to tag somebody and I'm like, what did it what are they on Instagram?
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I actually had to change my Facebook, my bigger Facebook that has over 112,000.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_05: Um, because I wanted to verify it and they make you verify now through your driver's license.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_05: So my driver's license now is on there.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_05: It says stand with Meg in parentheses, but I can't wait to change it back because I don't want my I don't I want to be known as Meg, stand with Meg, not Megan Miller.
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_01: So Yeah.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, I'm not verified yet.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_05: It sucks now.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_05: You can't like you used to be able to verify whatever number you know name you wanted, but they still would look at your face.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_05: But now I'm like all right, well, I want to say thank you so much for coming on my show.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_05: You are so sweet, and everyone needs to go.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_05: If you can go to her website or you can go to mine and read her book, it's very amazing and detailed, and her story will take your breath away.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_01: You just celebrated a birthday?
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, yeah, I just turned 43.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_01: When?
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_05: August 1st.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_05: So this few months are this are hard because my birthday's August 1st, my son's birthday is August 6th, my other son's August 14th, and my twins is September 20th.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the the they say with pregnancy, you always have your kids around the same time, but my birthday was just August 1st this Saturday.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_04: Your birthday is August 1st?
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's fine.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_03: You're a Leo, and you know the Lion uh gate opened up on Saturday.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm aware.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, like August Leo's in the house.
• 1:10:58
  SPEAKER_05: That's awesome.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_05: I haven't uh met another Leo mom or mom like me because I usually I attract so I have one friend that all she does attract Leos, guys and girls.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_05: Um I haven't met another one.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, I love Leo men, I don't know much about Leo women are awesome.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I knew we were vibing.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, there's something about her.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_05: So they say what the eight is supposed to be like the best.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know.
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_05: I believe in God.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_05: 100% I'm a very strong Christian.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_05: Love my god, I can cuss, but I love my God.
• 1:11:30
  SPEAKER_05: But um, but then this stuff's been interesting to learn.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, Saturday I get on my phone and it says if you're August 1st and you're if you're Leo, and it didn't say that.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_05: It was weird.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_05: It was our birthday and it was an opening of the lion's portal.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, no, I'm not I follow that, but yeah, okay.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_01: You look that up.
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I completely understand.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yes, God first and foremost, but there is some kind of truth or behind this.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, you know, planets out there, you know, he puts the planets out there, I would say.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, yeah.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_05: So I stood outside on the moon and um raised my hands and prayed and um just gave it all to God, you know, and I'm waiting for what God wants from me because um I can't go work right now.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_05: Uh I haven't worked in oh gosh over a year because every time I try to every time I try to work, my ex sabotages it and my estranged sister does.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_05: And all my work is marketing and you know, promoting things.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_05: And so I have to be out there.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_05: So it's not like I can go work in an office.
• 1:12:30
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I can.
• 1:12:30
  SPEAKER_05: It's just um my mom, I know this is what God wants us to change, and it is going to change and it's going.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_05: And so I I I go by just a little bit of people donating just a little bit, but I'm thankful that my mom this will pay this if I can't afford it.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_05: But I mean, that's why I'm like my car payment, I couldn't pay my car for two months, you know.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_05: But um, thankful the only reason I don't have a home is because my mom and that's just all God.
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_05: But I'm not much on TikTok because uh my sister is so horrible on there and they don't allow, they don't care.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_05: TikTok doesn't care, so I hate TikTok because of that reason.
• 1:13:05
  SPEAKER_05: Um so I like more so I have like 60,000 on TikTok, but I don't grow.
• 1:13:09
  SPEAKER_05: I literally just post and get all because I can get on there and it take and it takes like three hours to take to block everyone's lies.
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_05: And so Facebook's awesome, but Instagram, they don't she's tried to create a page about me like multiple times, and we get it that all my friends take it right down.
• 1:13:24
  SPEAKER_05: Um is that the life?
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_05: It is.
• 1:13:27
  SPEAKER_05: That's what's weird.
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_05: My mom's like, and then she talks bad about my mom, like lies, and my mom's an amazing woman.
• 1:13:32
  SPEAKER_05: She's the mayor of my hometown, she runs a DM.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_05: Wow, yeah, and she raised nine children and homeschools.
• 1:13:39
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_05: Um that's why I was like, You're a strange sister.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, trust me, I got plenty of sisters.
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_05: I'm okay.
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_05: No problem.
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so I'm not on T very much, so but I'm more on Facebook and Instagram and um others.
• 1:13:55
  SPEAKER_05: But this is a show where we take the mask off the system that is hurting our families.
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_05: We are defending parents, protecting children, and being voiced to the voiceless.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_05: Join me next time on the episode.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you so much, Monica, for coming in today and sharing your book.
• 1:14:09
  SPEAKER_05: Again, go to her website and I'll put everything in the comments down below for you can go buy her book and read it.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_05: So you don't not so you will not feel alone.
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_05: You will feel like, wow, this lady knows what I'm feeling.
• 1:14:20
  SPEAKER_05: And um and share this post and please subscribe to her uh socials and mine as well.
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_05: The more we stand up and voice and tell this truth of what's happening in family court, the more we can take it down.
• 1:14:31
  SPEAKER_05: And don't forget to go fill out the survey at standwithmag.com at stand with mag.