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043 - Homily 25 Part 2 - Romans 141-2 · Homilies on Romans

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  Speaker 1: Section forty three of Homilies on Romans by John Chrysostom,
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  Speaker 1: translated by J. B. Morris. This Librivar's recording is in
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  Speaker 1: the public domain. Homily twenty five, Part two, Romans fourteen,
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  Speaker 1: Verses one and two, Verse thirteen. Let us not therefore
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  Speaker 1: judge one another any more, but judge this rather, that
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  Speaker 1: no man put a stumbling block or an occasion to
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  Speaker 1: fall in his brother's way. This does not apply to
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  Speaker 1: one less than the other. Wherefore it may well fit
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  Speaker 1: with both both, the advanced man that was offended at
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  Speaker 1: the observance of meats and the unadvanced that stumbled at
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  Speaker 1: the vehement rebuke given him. But consider, I pray you,
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  Speaker 1: the greatest punishment we shall suffer if we give offense
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  Speaker 1: at all. For if in a case where the thing
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  Speaker 1: was against law, yet as they rebuked unseasonably, he forbade
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  Speaker 1: their doing it in order that a brother might not
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  Speaker 1: be made to offend and stumble. When we give an
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  Speaker 1: offense without having anything to set right, even what treatment
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  Speaker 1: shall we deserve. For if not saving others will be
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  Speaker 1: a crime, And that it is so, he who buried
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  Speaker 1: the talent proofs, what will be the effect of giving
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  Speaker 1: him offense also, But what if he gives himself the offense?
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  Speaker 1: He may say, by being weak? Why this is just
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  Speaker 1: why thou oughtest to use all patient endurance. For if
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  Speaker 1: he were strong, then he would not require so much attention.
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  Speaker 1: But now, since he is half the feebler sort, he
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  Speaker 1: does on this ground need considerable care. Let us then
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  Speaker 1: yield him this, and in all respects bear his burdens.
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  Speaker 1: As it is not of our own sins only that
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  Speaker 1: we shall have to give an account, but for those
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  Speaker 1: also wherein we cause others to offend. For if that
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  Speaker 1: account were even by itself hard to pass, when these
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  Speaker 1: be added too, how are we to be saved? And
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  Speaker 1: let us not suppose that if we can find accomplices
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  Speaker 1: in our sins, that will be an excuse, as this
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  Speaker 1: will prove an addition to our punishment. Since the serpent
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  Speaker 1: too was punished more than the woman, as was the
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  Speaker 1: woman like wise more than the man. And Jezebel also
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  Speaker 1: was punished more severely than Ahab, who had seized the vineyard,
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  Speaker 1: for it was she that devised the whole matter and
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  Speaker 1: caused the king to offend. And therefore thou, when thou
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  Speaker 1: art the author of destruction, to others wilt suffer more
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  Speaker 1: severely than those who have been subverted by thee. For
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  Speaker 1: sinning is not so ruinous as leading others also into
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  Speaker 1: the same. Wherefore he speaks of those who not only
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  Speaker 1: do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
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  Speaker 1: And so when we see any sinning, let us so
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  Speaker 1: far from thrusting them on, even pull them back from
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  Speaker 1: the pit of iniquity, that we may not have to
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  Speaker 1: be punished for the ruin of others besides ourselves. And
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  Speaker 1: let us be continually in mind of the awful judgment, seat,
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  Speaker 1: of the stream of fire, of the chains never to
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  Speaker 1: be loosed, of the darkness with no light, the gnashing
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  Speaker 1: of teeth, and the venomous worm. Ah, But God is merciful.
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  Speaker 1: Are these then mere words? And twas not that rich
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  Speaker 1: man punished for despising Lazarus, and not the foolish virgins
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  Speaker 1: caust start of the bright chamber. Do not they who
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  Speaker 1: did not feed him go away into the fire prepared
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  Speaker 1: for the devil and his angels? Will not he that
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  Speaker 1: hath soiled garments, be bound hand and foot, and go
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  Speaker 1: to ruin? Was not he that demanded the hundred pence
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  Speaker 1: to be paid given over to the tormentors. Is not
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  Speaker 1: that said of the adulterers true that their worm shall
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  Speaker 1: not die nor their fire be quenched? Are these but
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  Speaker 1: mere threats? Then? Yea, it is answered. And from what
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  Speaker 1: source prey dost thou venture to make such an assertion?
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  Speaker 1: And that too, when thou passest judgment of thine own opinion,
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  Speaker 1: why I shall be able to prove the contrary, both
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  Speaker 1: from what Christ said and from what he did. For
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  Speaker 1: if you will not believe by the punishments that are
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  Speaker 1: to come, at least believe by those that have happened already.
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  Speaker 1: For what have happened and have come forth into reality,
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  Speaker 1: surely are not threats and words? Who then, was it
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  Speaker 1: that flooded the whole world in Noah's day and effected
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  Speaker 1: that baleful wreck and the outer destruction of our Who
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  Speaker 1: was it that, after this hold those thunders and lightnings
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  Speaker 1: upon the land of Sodom. Who that drowned all Egypt
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  Speaker 1: in the sea. Who that consumed the six hundred thousand
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  Speaker 1: men in the wilderness, Who that burnt up the synagogue
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  Speaker 1: of a Byron? Who that bade the earth open her
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  Speaker 1: mouth for the company of Cora and Dathan and swallow
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  Speaker 1: them up. Who that carried off the threescore and ten
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  Speaker 1: thousand at one sweep in David's time? Shall I mention
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  Speaker 1: also those that were punished individually, Cain who was given
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  Speaker 1: up to a continual vengeance, the son of Charmi, who
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  Speaker 1: has stoned with his whole family, or him that suffered
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  Speaker 1: the same thing for gathering sticks on the sabbath, the
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  Speaker 1: forty and two children in Elisha's time, who were consumed
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  Speaker 1: by those beasts and obtained no pardon even on the
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  Speaker 1: score of their age. And if he would see these
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  Speaker 1: same things even after the times of grace, just consider
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  Speaker 1: what great suffering the Jews had, how the women ate
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  Speaker 1: their own children, some roasting them and some consuming them
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  Speaker 1: in other ways. After being given up to irremediable famine
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  Speaker 1: and wars varied and severe, they threw all previous catastrophes
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  Speaker 1: into the shade by the exceeding greatness of their own calamities.
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  Speaker 1: For that it was Christ who did these things. Unto them.
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  Speaker 1: Hear him declaring as much both by parables and clearly
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  Speaker 1: and explicitly by parables, as when he says, but those
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  Speaker 1: that would not that I should reign over them, bring
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  Speaker 1: hither and slay them, and by that of the vineyard
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  Speaker 1: and that of the marriage, But clearly and explicitly, as
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  Speaker 1: when he threatens that they shall fall by the edge
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  Speaker 1: of the sword, and shall be led away captive into
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  Speaker 1: the nations, And there shall be upon the earth distress
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  Speaker 1: of nations with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring,
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  Speaker 1: and men's hearts failing them for fear, and there shall
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  Speaker 1: be tribulation such as there never was from the beginning,
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  Speaker 1: know nor ever shall be. And what a punishment an
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  Speaker 1: anneas too, and Sapharus suffered for the theft of a
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  Speaker 1: few pieces of money. He all know. Seest thou not
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  Speaker 1: the daily calamities also, or have these too not taken place?
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  Speaker 1: Seest thou not now men that are pining with famine,
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  Speaker 1: those that suffer elephanteus us, or are maimed in body,
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  Speaker 1: those that live in constant poverty, those that suffer countless
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  Speaker 1: irreparable evils. Now then will it be reasonable for some
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  Speaker 1: to be punished and some not? For if God be
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  Speaker 1: not unjust and unjust, he is not thou also wilt
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  Speaker 1: assuredly suffer punishment if thou sinnest. But if it be
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  Speaker 1: because He is merciful that he doth not punish. Then
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  Speaker 1: ought not these either to have been punished. But now
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  Speaker 1: because of these words of ours God, even here punisheth many,
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  Speaker 1: that when he believe not the words of the threatening
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  Speaker 1: the deeds of vengeance, he may at least believe. And
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  Speaker 1: since things of old do not affright us so much
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  Speaker 1: by things which happen in every generation, he correcteth those
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  Speaker 1: that in every generation are growing listless. And what is
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  Speaker 1: the reason, it may be said, why he doth not
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  Speaker 1: punish all here that he may give the others an
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  Speaker 1: in for repentance. Why then, does he not take vengeance
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  Speaker 1: upon all in the next world? It is lest many
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  Speaker 1: should disbelieve in his providence. How many robbers are there
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  Speaker 1: who have been taken, and how many that have left
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  Speaker 1: this life unpunished? Where is the mercy of God then,
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  Speaker 1: and his just judgment? It is my turn now to
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  Speaker 1: ask of thee for supposing no one at all had
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  Speaker 1: vengeance taken upon him, then you might have taken refuge
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  Speaker 1: in this. But now that some are punished and some
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  Speaker 1: are not, and this though they be the worse sinners,
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  Speaker 1: how can it be reasonable that there be not the
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  Speaker 1: same punishments for the same sins. How can those punished
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  Speaker 1: appear to be else than wronged? What reason is there, then,
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  Speaker 1: why all are not punished? Here here the defense of
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  Speaker 1: Christ himself for these things. For when some had died
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  Speaker 1: by the falling of a tower on them, he said
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  Speaker 1: to those who raised a question upon this, suppose ye
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  Speaker 1: that they were sinners above all men, I tell you nay.
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  Speaker 1: But except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. So
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  Speaker 1: exhorting us not to ill confident when others suffer punishment.
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  Speaker 1: And we ourselves, though we have committed many transgressions, do not,
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  Speaker 1: for except we change our conduct, we assuredly shall suffer.
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  Speaker 1: And how it may be said, is it that we
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  Speaker 1: are to be punished without end for sinning a short time? Here?
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  Speaker 1: How I ask? Is it that in this world those who,
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  Speaker 1: in a short moment of time have done one murder
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  Speaker 1: are condemned to constant punishment in the minds? But it
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  Speaker 1: is not God that does this. It may be said,
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  Speaker 1: how then came he to keep the man with a
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  Speaker 1: palsy for thirty and eight years in so great punishments?
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  Speaker 1: For that it was for sins that he punished him? Hear,
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  Speaker 1: what he says, behold, thou art made whole sin no
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  Speaker 1: more lest a worse thing come to thee. Still it
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  Speaker 1: is said he found a release. But the case is
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  Speaker 1: not so with the other life, for that there there
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  Speaker 1: will never be any release here from his own mouth.
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  Speaker 1: Their worm will not die, nor their fire be quenched.
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  Speaker 1: And these shall go into everlasting life, but these into
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  Speaker 1: everlasting punishment. Now, if the life be eternal, the punishment
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  Speaker 1: is eternal. Seest thou not how severely he threatened the Jews?
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  Speaker 1: And have the things threatened come to pass? Or were
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  Speaker 1: those that were told them a mere talk? One stone
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  Speaker 1: shall not remain upon another, and has it remained? But
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  Speaker 1: what when he says there shall be tribulation such as
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  Speaker 1: hath not been, has it come? Then? Read the history
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  Speaker 1: of Josephus, And thou wilt not be able to draw
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  Speaker 1: thy breath even at only hearing what they suffered for
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  Speaker 1: their doings. This I say not that I may pain you,
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  Speaker 1: about that I may make you secure, unless, by having
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  Speaker 1: humored you over much, I should but make a way
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  Speaker 1: for the endurance of sourer punishments. For why pray dost
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  Speaker 1: thou not deem it right? Thou shouldst be punished for sinning?
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  Speaker 1: Hath he not told THEE all beforehand? Hath he not
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  Speaker 1: threatened thee, not made THEE afraid, not done things even
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  Speaker 1: without number for thy salvation's sake, gave he THEE not
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  Speaker 1: the laver of regeneration, and forgave he not all thy
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  Speaker 1: former sins. Hath he not after this forgiveness, and the
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  Speaker 1: laver also given THEE the succor of repentance. If thou sin,
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  Speaker 1: hath he not made the way to forgiveness of sins?
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  Speaker 1: Even after all this easy to THEE? Here? Then what
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  Speaker 1: he hath enjoined? If thou forgive thy neighbor, I also
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  Speaker 1: will forgive thee? He says, What hardship is there in this?
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  Speaker 1: Judge the cause of the fatherless? And see that the
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  Speaker 1: widow have right? And come and let us converse together,
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  Speaker 1: he saith, And if your sins be as purple, I
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  Speaker 1: will make them white as snow? What labor is there here?
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  Speaker 1: Tell thy sins that thou mayst be justified? What hardship
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  Speaker 1: is there in this? Redeem thy sins with the alms?
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  Speaker 1: What toilsomeness is there in this? The publican said, be
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  Speaker 1: merciful to me a sinner and went down home justified.
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  Speaker 1: What labor is it to imitate the publican? And wilt
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  Speaker 1: thou not be persuaded even after this that there is
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  Speaker 1: punishment and vengeance? At that rate? Thou wilt deny that
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  Speaker 1: even the devil is punished, For Departy says into the
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  Speaker 1: fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Now if
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  Speaker 1: there be no hell, then neither is he punished. But
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  Speaker 1: if he is punished, it is plain that we shall also,
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  Speaker 1: for we also have disobeyed, even if it be not
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  Speaker 1: in the same way. And how comest thou not to
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  Speaker 1: be afraid to speak such daring things? For when thou
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  Speaker 1: sayest that God is merciful and doth not punish, if
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  Speaker 1: he should punish, he will be found, in thy case
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  Speaker 1: to be no longer merciful. See then, unto what language
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  Speaker 1: the devil leadeth you? And what are the monks that
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  Speaker 1: have taken up with the mountains and yield examples of such?
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  Speaker 1: Manifold self denial to go away without their crown. For
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  Speaker 1: if the wicked are not to be punished, and there
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  Speaker 1: is no recompense made to any one, some one else
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  Speaker 1: will say, perhaps that neither are the good crowned. Nay,
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  Speaker 1: it will be said, for this is suitable with God,
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  Speaker 1: that there should be a kingdom only and not a hell. Well,
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  Speaker 1: then the hormonger and the adulterer, and the man who
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  Speaker 1: hath done evils unnumbered enjoy the same advantages with the
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  Speaker 1: man who has exhibited soberness and holding. And Paul is
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  Speaker 1: to stand with Nero, or rather even the devil with Paul.
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  Speaker 1: For if there be no hell, and yet a resurrection
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  Speaker 1: be certain, then the wicked will attain to the same
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  Speaker 1: good things with the righteous. And who would say this,
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  Speaker 1: who even of men that were quite crazed, Or rather,
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  Speaker 1: which of the devils even would say this? For even
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  Speaker 1: they confess that there is a hell. Wherefore also they
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  Speaker 1: cried out and said, art thou come hither to torment
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  Speaker 1: us before the time? How then comest thou not to
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  Speaker 1: fear and tremble when even the devils confess what thyself
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  Speaker 1: art denying? Or how is it that thou dost not
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  Speaker 1: see who is the teacher of these evil doctrines? For
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  Speaker 1: he who deceived the first man, and under the pretext
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  Speaker 1: of greater hopes, threw them out, even of the blessings
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  Speaker 1: they had in possession. He it is who now suggests
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  Speaker 1: the saying and fancying of these things, And for this
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  Speaker 1: reason he persuades some to suspect there is no hell,
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  Speaker 1: that he may thrust them into hell. As God, on
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  Speaker 1: the other hand, threateneth hell and made hell ready, that
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  Speaker 1: by coming to know of it, thou mightst so live
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  Speaker 1: as not to fall into hell. And yet when there
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  Speaker 1: is a hell, the devil persuades thee to these things.
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  Speaker 1: How came the devils to confess it? If it did
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  Speaker 1: not exist? Whose aim and desire it is that we
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  Speaker 1: should not suspect anything of the kind, that through fearlessness
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  Speaker 1: we might become the more listless, and so fall with
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  Speaker 1: them into that fire. How then, it will be said,
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  Speaker 1: came they to confess it? It was through their not
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  Speaker 1: bearing the compulsion laid upon them. Taking all these things
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  Speaker 1: into consideration, then that those who talk in this way
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  Speaker 1: leave off deceiving both themselves and others, since even for
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  Speaker 1: these words of theirs, they will be punished for detracting
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  Speaker 1: from those awful things and undoing the awe of many
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  Speaker 1: who are to be in earnest and do not even
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  Speaker 1: do as much as the Barbarian ninevites, for they though
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  Speaker 1: they were wholly ignorant of things, when they heard that
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  Speaker 1: the city was to be destroyed, were so far from
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  Speaker 1: disbelieving that they even groaned and girded themselves with sackcloth,
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  Speaker 1: and were confounded, and did not cease to use every
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  Speaker 1: means until they had alone the wrath. But dost thou,
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  Speaker 1: who hast had so great experience of facts and of teaching,
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  Speaker 1: make light of what is told THEE the contrary? Then
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  Speaker 1: will be thy fate. For as they, through fear of
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  Speaker 1: the words, had not to undergo the vengeance in act,
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  Speaker 1: so thou, who despisest THEE threatening by words, will have
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  Speaker 1: to undergo the punishment in very deed. And if now
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  Speaker 1: what thou art told seems a fable to THEE, it
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  Speaker 1: will not, however, seem so, when very things convince THEE.
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  Speaker 1: Then have you never noticed what he did even in
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  Speaker 1: this world? How when he met with two thieves he
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  Speaker 1: counted them not worthy of the same estate, But one
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  Speaker 1: he led into the kingdom, and the other he sent
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  Speaker 1: away into hell. And why speak I of a robber
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  Speaker 1: and murderer, For even an apostle he did not spare
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  Speaker 1: when he had become a traitor. But even when he
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  Speaker 1: saw him rushing to the halter, and hanging, and boasting
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  Speaker 1: asunder in the midst For he did boast asunder, and
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  Speaker 1: all his bowels gushed out. Still, when he foresaw all
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  Speaker 1: these things, he let him suffer all of the same,
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  Speaker 1: giving thee from the present a proof of all that
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  Speaker 1: is in the other world. Also, do not then cheat
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  Speaker 1: yourselves through being persuaded of the devil. These devices are his.
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  Speaker 1: For if both judges and masters, and teachers and savages
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  Speaker 1: respect the good and punish the evil, with what reason
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  Speaker 1: is the contrary to be the case with God? While
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  Speaker 1: the good man and he who is not so are
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  Speaker 1: deemed worthy of the same estate. And when will there
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  Speaker 1: be any release from wickedness? For they who now are
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  Speaker 1: expecting punishment, and are amongst so many terrors, those from
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  Speaker 1: the judges, those from the laws, and yet do not
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  Speaker 1: depart from iniquity, when on their departing this life they
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  Speaker 1: are to lay aside even this fear, and are not
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  Speaker 1: only not to be cast into hell, but are even
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  Speaker 1: to obtain a kingdom. When will they leave doing wickedly?
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  Speaker 1: Is this, then, mercy pray to add to wickedness, to
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  Speaker 1: set up rewards for iniquity to count thee sober and
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  Speaker 1: the unchastened, the faithful and the irreligious, pole and the
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  Speaker 1: devil to have the same deserts. But how long am
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  Speaker 1: I to be trifling? Wherefore I exhort you to get
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  Speaker 1: you free from this madness, and, having grown to be
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  Speaker 1: your own masters, persuade your souls to fear and to tremble,
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  Speaker 1: that they may at once be saved from the hill
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  Speaker 1: to come, and may, after passing the life in this world,
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  Speaker 1: soberly attain unto the good things to come, by the
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  Speaker 1: grace and love towards Man et cetera. End of Section
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  Speaker 1: forty three.