Latest / Beyond Expertise / From Selling Canned Corn to Purposeful Coaching with Chip Scholz

Transcript

From Selling Canned Corn to Purposeful Coaching with Chip Scholz · Beyond Expertise

• 0:01
  Eric Dickmann: Welcome to Beyond Expertise, a podcast about identity reinvention for professionals ready to explore who they are beyond their titles and careers.
• 0:11
  Eric Dickmann: I'm your host, Eric Dickmann.
• 0:13
  Eric Dickmann: On this episode, I'm excited to welcome Chip Scholes.
• 0:16
  Eric Dickmann: After decades working in leadership and executive environments, Chip didn't just reinvent his career, he began rethinking the idea of identity itself through coaching, writing, and even woodturning.
• 0:29
  Eric Dickmann: His work explores how change often happens quietly through small decisions rather than dramatic moments.
• 0:37
  Eric Dickmann: Today, we talk about what it means to let go of who you thought you had to be Chip, welcome to the show.
• 0:43
  Eric Dickmann: So glad to have you on today.
• 0:45
  Chip Scholz: Eric, I am, I am just really looking forward to it.
• 0:49
  Eric Dickmann: Same here.
• 0:50
  Eric Dickmann: uh, you know, As I start today, maybe a little different than other shows that you've been on, but I wanna go way back.
• 0:55
  Eric Dickmann: I wanna go all the way back from when you left school that very first job when you entered the corporate world.
• 1:03
  Eric Dickmann: I wanna understand a little bit more about how that was for you.
• 1:06
  Eric Dickmann: Was that first job like saying,"This is exciting.
• 1:10
  Eric Dickmann: I'm on my way.
• 1:11
  Eric Dickmann: I'm on the career path that I really thought that I would be on when I entered the corporate world"?
• 1:16
  Eric Dickmann: Did you take what was ever available?
• 1:18
  Eric Dickmann: Tell me a little bit about how it all started for you.
• 1:20
  Chip Scholz: Well, I, I'll go back even further and, uh, high school and college, I worked incessantly.
• 1:26
  Chip Scholz: Um, freshman year of college, my dad was gonna pay for school, pay for, um, tuition at least, and, uh, um, he had a couple of reversals.
• 1:35
  Chip Scholz: He had a commission, um, problem with his company.
• 1:39
  Chip Scholz: They took back some commission, and the IRS audited him and, you know.
• 1:43
  Chip Scholz: So there, there was just not a lot of money there.
• 1:46
  Chip Scholz: And so, um, I had to work if I wanna stay in school.
• 1:50
  Chip Scholz: So he, he did take care of, uh, of the, um, tuition, uh, mostly, but, uh, um, but I still had to pay for all living expenses and everything like that, which meant getting a job.
• 2:02
  Chip Scholz: So, so I-- a lot of times I had two or three jobs that I was working.
• 2:08
  Chip Scholz: You know, I'd work an on-campus job and I'd work an off-campus job, or I'd work a couple off-campus jobs.
• 2:13
  Chip Scholz: Uh, you know, one of the, one of the jobs I worked was, uh, um, hiking cars for Hertz, where we wou- we would load, load 12 fraternity brothers in a van, drive someplace, um, like Mattoon, Illinois, pick up 11 cars, and drive them back in formation.
• 2:30
  Chip Scholz: And, you know, and it was way before anything like CBs.
• 2:34
  Chip Scholz: I guess CBs were a thing, but, uh, um, you know, certainly not cell phones.
• 2:37
  Chip Scholz: You couldn't c- talk to each other.
• 2:39
  Chip Scholz: But we would, we would go four abreast on a two-lane and, and, uh, and drive, you know, drive pretty crazy.
• 2:45
  Chip Scholz: And this is back in, in the day when, uh, muscle cars were, were kinda muscle cars.
• 2:49
  Chip Scholz: Even, even rental cars were muscle cars.
• 2:51
  Chip Scholz: So I, I did a lot of that stuff and, uh, um, and one of the things that I did in college was get very heavily involved in radio.
• 3:01
  Chip Scholz: So, so I was the, uh, um, eventually the station manager at WESN, um, Radio in Bloomington, F- FM station at, for school.
• 3:10
  Chip Scholz: But I also worked at WAKC as, uh, the Hank Scholz Evening Show here on WAKC.
• 3:17
  Chip Scholz: And Yeah, yeah.
• 3:18
  Chip Scholz: So, you know, I, I had a lot of options to, uh, to think about when I graduated, but I graduated in the heart of a s- a recession.
• 3:26
  Chip Scholz: You know,'78 was not a, a good time to, uh, to graduate.
• 3:30
  Chip Scholz: And, uh, um, and so, you know, I, I followed my dad's footsteps and I ended up in sales, you know, because everybody said,"Oh, you're really good with people.
• 3:39
  Chip Scholz: You ought to be in sales."
• 3:41
  Eric Dickmann: Were you excited about sales, or you just followed the path that kind of had the least resistance?
• 3:47
  Chip Scholz: You know, I got hired by Del Monte to sell beans and corn and ketchup.
• 3:51
  Chip Scholz: I was, I was paid$950 a month plus a company car and all the dried fruit I could eat.
• 3:59
  Chip Scholz: Think about that,$950 a
• 4:01
  Eric Dickmann: Yeah.
• 4:02
  Eric Dickmann: Yeah.
• 4:03
  Chip Scholz: I was, moved from Atlanta.
• 4:04
  Chip Scholz: I was living in Atlanta at the time, uh, with my mother, and, uh, I was moved to Charlotte, North Carolina, where I knew absolutely nobody.
• 4:13
  Chip Scholz: And, uh, um, and so I, you know, my first apartment was$195 a month, furnished.
• 4:21
  Chip Scholz: Furnished apartment for 195.
• 4:22
  Chip Scholz: Think, think about that.
• 4:24
  Chip Scholz: And, uh, um, you know, I was barely getting by but, uh, um, over the, over a couple years I got promoted a couple times and, and, you know, um, you don't really know what you're doing.
• 4:38
  Chip Scholz: You know, i- if, if I, if I said I was intentional, I would be lying because, because I wasn't.
• 4:45
  Chip Scholz: Um, I just knew that I wanted to get ahead.
• 4:47
  Chip Scholz: I just knew that, that I wanted to be promoted, um, which led to a move to Atlanta and, uh, um, there's a backstory there, um, with a, uh, um, with an ex-wife and, and things like that.
• 5:01
  Chip Scholz: Um, got married and got divorced in Atlanta.
• 5:04
  Chip Scholz: But, uh, um, you know, I, I left that job, ended up with an air freight company and, uh, um, got promoted a couple times there.
• 5:12
  Chip Scholz: Um, that got me moved to Tampa for, uh, um, for a few years and then out to LA.
• 5:17
  Chip Scholz: That's how I ended up in LA.
• 5:19
  Chip Scholz: And, uh, um, and, uh, you know, I, I guess I was supposed to be an expert in sales and sales management.
• 5:26
  Chip Scholz: I don't think I was really an expert.
• 5:28
  Chip Scholz: I wasn't really that into reading or, or advancing my craft.
• 5:32
  Chip Scholz: I just figured, you know, you should know that I'm that good.
• 5:36
  Eric Dickmann: It's so funny when I talk to people and you look back on your careers, one thing leads to another, which leads to another, and then you look back 10, 15, 20, 30 years have passed by and you wonder,"How did I get from where I started to here?" And you look at all those little moments where new opportunities opened up or you were forced to make a change, but you end up in a place that isn't necessarily, I think, where a lot of people aspired to be when they first started.
• 6:03
  Eric Dickmann: Did you find that as
• 6:04
  Chip Scholz: Oh, that, that's no kidding.
• 6:05
  Chip Scholz: Um, so, you know, one of the things that I learned over the years, and, and I think it dawned on me after I got on my own business, is that, uh, um, I'm not a good employee.
• 6:15
  Chip Scholz: Um- And, and so here's, here's how I learned.
• 6:18
  Chip Scholz: So, so I was with the air freight company in LA.
• 6:21
  Chip Scholz: Um, I got, uh, I got let go by them.
• 6:24
  Chip Scholz: I ended up in, uh, in the trash business with, uh, BFI.
• 6:29
  Chip Scholz: And, um, a couple years into it, my boss said,"Hey, you're really good at talking to people." He said,"Uh, why don't you, why don't you talk to the cities?" Because at the time they had this bill that had passed that, that 50% of all refuse was supposed to be diverted from the landfill, and cities were freaking out.
• 6:47
  Chip Scholz: And since we did a bunch of city contracting, he wanted me to, to go over and get in trouble.
• 6:52
  Chip Scholz: And one, one city in particular was getting ready to give all their commercial waste, which was about$5 million of our business, they were giving it to another company without a bid, without anything.
• 7:05
  Chip Scholz: And so he said,"Go over and get in trouble." And so over the next couple years I got in trouble.
• 7:10
  Chip Scholz: I got to know all the city people, I got to know the Chamber of Commerce, I got involved in the Chamber of Commerce.
• 7:15
  Chip Scholz: I joined a rotary club.
• 7:17
  Chip Scholz: I did all this, this stuff.
• 7:19
  Chip Scholz: And, uh, um, and I was actually quite good at it.
• 7:22
  Chip Scholz: But the, the really cool part is my boss at the time gave me free reign to define my, my position as I wanted to make it.
• 7:33
  Chip Scholz: Didn't tell me what...
• 7:34
  Chip Scholz: You know, he told me what the, what the goals were, but he didn't tell me how to do it.
• 7:38
  Chip Scholz: He didn't tell me that it has to include this.
• 7:41
  Chip Scholz: And he said,"Go ahead and design your own, uh, your own business, um, your, your own position." And that was pretty revelatory.
• 7:49
  Chip Scholz: I mean, that was so cool that I got to do pretty much what I wanted to do.
• 7:53
  Chip Scholz: And, and that's where I started to learn that I, I wasn't a good, um, a good employee.
• 8:00
  Chip Scholz: Um, the other thing I learned is that, you know, when I was involved, I was on 26 different Chamber of Commerce boards.
• 8:06
  Chip Scholz: I was, uh, um, chairman of four different chambers of commerce.
• 8:10
  Chip Scholz: And the last chamber of commerce that I was chairman of out there was the Torrance Area Chamber of Commerce, which, you know, at the time had about a$3 million budget and, you know, Torrance, California is kind of like the heart of the automotive and the aerospace business.
• 8:25
  Chip Scholz: TRW is out there.
• 8:26
  Chip Scholz: Um, Honda used to have a campus out there and, and, uh, um, you know, it, it's a, it's big business.
• 8:32
  Chip Scholz: Um, Torrance had 100,000 residents at ni- uh, during, at, at night, and had over a million residents during the day.
• 8:41
  Chip Scholz: So, you know, the, the people, yeah, the people that came to work in, in Torrance was pretty, uh, pretty amazing.
• 8:46
  Chip Scholz: So it was pretty, pretty heavy stuff.
• 8:49
  Chip Scholz: And the thing I really noticed is the people that I really admired are the people that hung their own shingle
• 8:55
  Eric Dickmann: Hmm.
• 8:55
  Chip Scholz: The people that weren't defined, that got to define themselves.
• 8:59
  Chip Scholz: And, uh, and you know, I-- the, the one guy I remember is a guy named Forrest Mayo.
• 9:03
  Chip Scholz: He's, uh, he's passed away, um, a long time since now.
• 9:07
  Chip Scholz: But he was the, he was the tchotchke guy.
• 9:10
  Chip Scholz: You know?
• 9:10
  Chip Scholz: He o- he had all the rulers and the, uh, the foam fingers and the, the coffee mugs and all that kind of stuff.
• 9:17
  Chip Scholz: And I just loved the way that he went about his business and, and he was, he was such a gentle man, and he was also a gentleman, but he was also a gentle man.
• 9:26
  Chip Scholz: And, uh, um, it was just, he-- that kind of gave me a framework.
• 9:31
  Eric Dickmann: It sounded like it planted a seed almost that you thought,"Well, there is something that beyond this corporate world that I'm in where I could be my own boss and, and run my own show." Hang your own shingle, as you said.
• 9:43
  Eric Dickmann: Was that planting of that seed what eventually pushed you out?
• 9:48
  Eric Dickmann: Or was there something that...
• 9:50
  Chip Scholz: there...
• 9:51
  Chip Scholz: I, I don't think, I don't think we're the architects of our own change.
• 9:55
  Chip Scholz: You know, sometimes we are, but, uh, um, I would say most change comes externally that, that forces you into the change.
• 10:01
  Chip Scholz: Um, so in, in the last three years that I was with BFI, they went through, I went through five bosses.
• 10:07
  Eric Dickmann: Yeah.
• 10:08
  Chip Scholz: Which, you know, you can tell that, yeah, it is.
• 10:12
  Chip Scholz: It is.
• 10:12
  Chip Scholz: And because I was not a easy category to understand, because I did what I did, um, nobody really knew what to make m- of me.
• 10:23
  Chip Scholz: And so I was constantly having to justify what I was doing and, and all that kind of stuff.
• 10:27
  Chip Scholz: And it was e- you're right, it was exhausting.
• 10:29
  Chip Scholz: Um, May of'98, I got laid off.
• 10:31
  Chip Scholz: Um, the company was about to be sold.
• 10:32
  Chip Scholz: We didn't know that, but, uh, um, the company sold about six months later.
• 10:37
  Chip Scholz: And, uh, um, and I called my wife and I said, uh, um,"Listen, um, I just got the package." And she said, um,"Well, uh, what do you wanna do?" And I said,"I don't know, but I don't wanna do it here.
• 10:49
  Chip Scholz: And I do know what I do that I don't wanna do, I don't wanna work for anybody else."
• 10:54
  Eric Dickmann: Isn't that interesting?
• 10:55
  Eric Dickmann: Because I hear that a lot from people too.
• 10:58
  Eric Dickmann: They're not always sure what they wanna do, but they absolutely know what they don't wanna do anymore.
• 11:02
  Eric Dickmann: And so it sounds like you had a little bit of room, right?
• 11:05
  Eric Dickmann: If you got a package when that layoff happened.
• 11:09
  Eric Dickmann: But that's a big change if you decide you're gonna move, uh, leave the, the city where you were living, start a new life someplace else, and start a new career.
• 11:17
  Chip Scholz: Well, a month later, we were on a plane to North Carolina, and in that, in that, uh, um, weekend that we were in North Carolina, we signed a contract for a house to, to be built on Lake Norman.
• 11:30
  Chip Scholz: And, uh, um, and we went back to LA, and we both got temporary permanent jobs
• 11:36
  Eric Dickmann: Hmm.
• 11:37
  Chip Scholz: Yeah.
• 11:37
  Chip Scholz: The, our employers thought they were permanent, uh, we, we knew they were temporary.
• 11:40
  Chip Scholz: So I went to work for Southern California Edison.
• 11:43
  Chip Scholz: Uh, my wife went to work for a, uh, pager company selling pagers.
• 11:47
  Chip Scholz: And, uh, um, and a year later, um, we shocked everybody when we said,"Hey, we're outta here." And, uh, um, you know, everybody threw a big party, all our friends and, and, you know, they had stayed friends over the time.
• 12:00
  Chip Scholz: So, you know, we, uh, headed out.
• 12:03
  Chip Scholz: And now I still didn't know what I was gonna do.
• 12:05
  Eric Dickmann: Well, that's interesting though, but you knew you were gonna do something else.
• 12:08
  Eric Dickmann: You took these jobs that other people thought were permanent, you knew they weren't.
• 12:12
  Eric Dickmann: So in the back of your mind, obviously you're ruminating a little bit about what is this next chapter gonna be.
• 12:18
  Eric Dickmann: But even after that period of time, you hadn't settled on what that was yet.
• 12:22
  Chip Scholz: Yeah, I had thought originally that I wanted to be a motivational speaker,
• 12:26
  Eric Dickmann: Okay.
• 12:26
  Chip Scholz: and so I was kinda headed down that path.
• 12:29
  Chip Scholz: And, and, uh, um, so when I got here, um, I ran into a company called, uh, Resource Associates.
• 12:35
  Chip Scholz: And, uh, um, Resource Associates was a company that provided materials like, um, leadership materials and, and things like that, um, some processes and that kind of stuff.
• 12:46
  Chip Scholz: And so, uh, um, I signed up with them, paid them their money.
• 12:50
  Chip Scholz: Um, yesterday I couldn't spell consultant, today I are one.
• 12:53
  Chip Scholz: And, and it was, it was different than, um, it was different than, than motivational speaking, but it was similar in that you, you know, the, the whole model was based on being in front of a class of people, either people that you've recruited, individuals or businesses that have, have sponsored you in, and, uh, and running leadership programs.
• 13:18
  Chip Scholz: And, uh, you know, the first five years were really rough.
• 13:22
  Chip Scholz: The, uh, the first year was kinda tough.
• 13:24
  Chip Scholz: Um, I found a company called TTI, which is, uh, a purveyor of assessment instruments, and, uh, um, that changed, that changed my project- trajectory quite a bit.
• 13:36
  Chip Scholz: And somewhere along the line, um, I hooked up with a, um, a guy that had, had, uh, graduated like six months before from the training at REC, and he had found this thing called coaching.
• 13:51
  Eric Dickmann: Mm.
• 13:51
  Eric Dickmann: Mm-hmm.
• 13:53
  Chip Scholz: It was so cool because his description of it was you could sit on your couch in your underwear and talk to people all over the country.
• 14:01
  Chip Scholz: Now, now, I didn't ever think it was going to be sitting on my, uh, couch in my underwear, but, uh, um, certainly talking to people all over the country was, was pretty exciting.
• 14:11
  Chip Scholz: Um, the thing that I learned about, uh, motivational speaking is that it's, it's kind of like doing stand-up or, or being in a, in a Broadway show or whatever.
• 14:22
  Chip Scholz: You, you go and focus so much energy on that hour or two hours you're on the platform, and then you walk off and you go back to your hotel room and eat Cheetos and watch bad TV
• 14:33
  Eric Dickmann: Right.
• 14:34
  Chip Scholz: And, and so there's no relationship in it.
• 14:37
  Chip Scholz: And, and so when I got my coaching chops and I started to figure out what it all meant, and, you know, this was probably two years in, three years in, um, you know, some things made sense to me.
• 14:51
  Chip Scholz: Like, I wanted to have long-term clients.
• 14:54
  Chip Scholz: I also wanted to bill them on a monthly basis.
• 14:57
  Chip Scholz: So, so my whole goal was to bill, um, 20 clients a certain amount that I would have this base that I could do a lot of other things, um, for it.
• 15:07
  Chip Scholz: You know, that's what I, that's what I set out to do, and that's what I did.
• 15:10
  Eric Dickmann: I think you, you stumbled upon a couple really important things that I think the audience can relate to.
• 15:16
  Eric Dickmann: When you first decided to go off on your own and do the motivational speaking, you got involved with some companies that I'm sure provided some frameworks and, and kinda helped you get that going.
• 15:27
  Eric Dickmann: 'Cause I think a lot of people leave and decide I'm going to do this or that, but they don't have all the pieces,.
• 15:33
  Eric Dickmann: So you either spend a lot of time building those pieces or you go out and get something that gives you a head start so that you can begin to build that business, but it's not always a right fit for you.
• 15:44
  Eric Dickmann: And it sounds like that's kind of what happened with you, is it, it was okay, but it wasn't completely the right fit, but it got you going.
• 15:51
  Chip Scholz: Well, and, and so RAC graduated to a different, uh, company called Trusted Advisors.
• 15:57
  Chip Scholz: I've been a part of that for a long time.
• 15:59
  Chip Scholz: Um, but what happens is if you do the homework, and I, I mean do the homework, I mean do all the reading and, and all of the listening and learning and mastermind groups and all that kind of stuff, you start to form your own ideas.
• 16:14
  Chip Scholz: So, you know, I was-- When, when I started out, I was still 10 years away from, uh, from writing my first book.
• 16:20
  Chip Scholz: And, and so it took 10 years for all those ideas to percolate and all that kind of stuff.
• 16:25
  Chip Scholz: And I would have to say that, uh, um, I, the book that was released last year, um, October 2025, um, was, was so much better than the two that I put out in the, uh, um, in the early 2010s.
• 16:40
  Chip Scholz: Um, because it, it just, it gives you time to percolate and, and, you know, finish up.
• 16:45
  Chip Scholz: But, but you're absolutely right.
• 16:47
  Chip Scholz: Having a framework is, is a whole lot easier than having to go out and write the book.
• 16:53
  Eric Dickmann: Yes And then when you made that transition from being the motivational speaker to doing the coaching,'cause I hear this a lot, you know, a lot of people say,"Well, I'll quit my job and I'll just coach others on how to do it.
• 17:04
  Eric Dickmann: I'll share that expertise that I have with others." But it's still you're building a business, right?
• 17:09
  Eric Dickmann: You have zero clients when you start as a coach, and so you have to be a marketer, right, to sell your services.
• 17:15
  Eric Dickmann: You have to figure out a way to, to price them, and usually there's some sort of a framework that goes along with that, right?
• 17:22
  Eric Dickmann: So that people know what kind of value they're gonna get from your services.
• 17:26
  Eric Dickmann: So how did you start that from, from zero clients?
• 17:31
  Chip Scholz: I, I leaned back on all my, uh, networking skills that I had from, from LA, you know?
• 17:38
  Chip Scholz: Um, so, so one of the things that I did first, and, and it's funny because as I go through the, uh, the cycle, it, it is not applicable anymore.
• 17:48
  Chip Scholz: But, uh, um, one of the first things I did was I got involved in city government and chambers of commerce out here and, and charitable organizations, you know.
• 17:56
  Chip Scholz: So I, I got involved in a couple hundred charitable organizations in LA and, uh, you know, anything from the Boy Scouts to, uh, um, to, you know, Cheer for Children to any, any kind of...
• 18:08
  Chip Scholz: 'Cause, uh, it wasn't just lobbying.
• 18:11
  Chip Scholz: I was director of community affairs, so I gave a lot of money to a lot of people.
• 18:15
  Chip Scholz: I had a half a million dollars to, uh, to give away to the community.
• 18:18
  Eric Dickmann: you,
• 18:23
  Chip Scholz: getting to know people.
• 18:25
  Chip Scholz: And, uh, here's-- I did this thing'cause I, I, I developed, um, this, this thing early on called the five-by-five program.
• 18:34
  Chip Scholz: Uh, you know, I don't know if it makes sense, but, uh, um, but it, it made sense to me.
• 18:38
  Chip Scholz: And so what I did is, uh, is I would sit, I would call these city leaders or corporate leaders, like the, the CAO of Duke Power,
• 18:49
  Eric Dickmann: Mm-hmm.
• 18:50
  Chip Scholz: and, and, um, a lady named Ruth Shaw at the time.
• 18:53
  Chip Scholz: She was a wonderful, wonderful person.
• 18:55
  Chip Scholz: But, uh, um, the chamber of commerce had, had referred me to her.
• 18:59
  Chip Scholz: I sat down with her and had a nice conversation over coffee, and I said at the end,"Who are the five people I need to know in, in Charlotte?
• 19:08
  Chip Scholz: What are, what are their phone numbers?
• 19:10
  Chip Scholz: And do you mind if I say it's okay that you-- to call them, that you told me it was okay to call them?"
• 19:16
  Eric Dickmann: Mm-hmm.
• 19:17
  Chip Scholz: Well, out of those five people, there were four that would see me.
• 19:20
  Chip Scholz: One just kept blowing me off, so hey, that's, that's it.
• 19:23
  Chip Scholz: But I had four people.
• 19:25
  Chip Scholz: Those four people gave me five people, and pretty soon you're so damn busy that you can't see straight with meetings and having coffee and, and doing that kind of stuff.
• 19:38
  Chip Scholz: And, uh, and so that's, that's how, that's how I build it from a realistic standpoint.
• 19:44
  Chip Scholz: But you're absolutely right.
• 19:46
  Chip Scholz: There are a lot of really gifted people that are coaches or marketers or, or whatever, they can't sell a lick and so they starve You know, I, I had a, uh, and well, and there's a, there's a, uh, um, a coaching organization called Sherpa.
• 20:04
  Chip Scholz: And I think up until 2020, they used to do a survey and, uh, um, and every year they do the survey of the coaching industry.
• 20:12
  Chip Scholz: And I think, I think one of the years they found that the average coach makes$30,000 a year from coaching.
• 20:23
  Chip Scholz: If I wasn't making 30,000 a month, I'd go slit my wrists.
• 20:28
  Eric Dickmann: Right.
• 20:29
  Chip Scholz: You know, and, and so, so the expectation is that, first of all, I didn't make that all by coaching.
• 20:39
  Chip Scholz: I was doing other things like assessment work and, and I was doing classes and all that kind of stuff.
• 20:44
  Chip Scholz: But, but the expectation is, um, you've got to sell if you want to do something.
• 20:51
  Eric Dickmann: Sure.
• 20:52
  Chip Scholz: And so I think the background in sales really helped a lot.
• 20:55
  Chip Scholz: But I, I tell you, I was never a good salesperson until I got into business for myself.
• 21:00
  Eric Dickmann: Well, that's an interesting point as well.
• 21:02
  Eric Dickmann: When you're in the business world, how would you compare selling something to a business to selling something like coaching services?
• 21:10
  Eric Dickmann: Do you find that it, it's harder to get a business to make a purchase or harder to make an individual sign up for some sort of a program?
• 21:21
  Chip Scholz: So Del Monte was a product, but everything else, um, CFR Freight and, and BFI was a service.
• 21:28
  Eric Dickmann: Was this nervous?
• 21:29
  Chip Scholz: With service offerings, you can be a little bit more creative about your, your, you, you know, it's not like a can of corn that you say,"This is a can of corn," and, you know, that's it.
• 21:39
  Chip Scholz: Um, getting into the coaching business, it was, it was extremely flexible as well.
• 21:45
  Chip Scholz: So, so in a way, you know, I, my best sales approach that I learned years ago was, was I walked in with an open, uh, with, with an empty yellow pad.
• 21:59
  Chip Scholz: And I sat down and I said, uh, I said,"So why are you seeing me?" And they would look kind of stunned at you and say,"What do you mean?" And you would say,"Well, there's a reason that you took this meeting.
• 22:13
  Chip Scholz: So, so what's the reason that you took this meeting?" And we'd have a great conversation then because it was just kind of like taking the, uh, taking the, the, uh, um, the blindfold off.
• 22:26
  Chip Scholz: And, uh, um, and then we had a good conversation and they were being seen and I was being seen and it was just, it was a, it was a good conversation.
• 22:33
  Chip Scholz: I worried about all the people that go into coaching, complain about it, never make it, and then can't figure out why.
• 22:42
  Eric Dickmann: No, I think you, you're spot on with, uh, with some of your observations, and I'm curious as you went on this journey, at what point did you sit back and say,"Now this is fulfilling.
• 22:54
  Eric Dickmann: I feel like I'm really adding value to people's lives.
• 22:56
  Eric Dickmann: This is the trajectory that, that I really wanna be on or stay on"?
• 23:01
  Chip Scholz: Have you ever heard of The Second Mountain by David Brooks?
• 23:04
  Eric Dickmann: Sure.
• 23:05
  Chip Scholz: That book spoke to me and, and it spoke to me in, in a way that is, is different.
• 23:12
  Chip Scholz: Um, so hi- his description of the first versus the second mountain.
• 23:16
  Chip Scholz: The first mountain is all about, um, career and money and power and all that, that crap.
• 23:22
  Chip Scholz: Um, and then in between you have, you have some kind of a crisis.
• 23:27
  Eric Dickmann: Mm-hmm.
• 23:27
  Eric Dickmann: Hmm.
• 23:27
  Chip Scholz: And the second mountain is more about meaning and fulfillment and that kind of stuff.
• 23:33
  Chip Scholz: So got the business started.
• 23:37
  Chip Scholz: 2005, I, I was, I was giving a s- a, a, um, speech to a Rotary Club.
• 23:43
  Chip Scholz: I think it was 2004.
• 23:44
  Chip Scholz: I was giving a speech to a Rotary Club in, uh, in Charlotte, and there was a guy there who was the head of the Southeastern Warehouse Association.
• 23:52
  Chip Scholz: And he came up to me afterwards and he said,"You're just the kind of guy that we need to have come and speak at our, uh, at a Ro- at, at our convention." So that fall, I went to The Homestead, Virginia, and, uh, and I gave a talk.
• 24:05
  Chip Scholz: I had two hours on a Saturday morning, and, and I ended up doing a whole bunch of business out of that, that conversation.
• 24:13
  Chip Scholz: But more importantly, the head of the International Warehouse Association was there.
• 24:19
  Chip Scholz: And, and he, you know...
• 24:22
  Chip Scholz: I, I, I hit it off with him.
• 24:23
  Chip Scholz: He was the volunteer chair, and a little while later they fired the executive director, who was also there, and, uh, um, they asked me to do the assessment work from him.
• 24:33
  Chip Scholz: Well, here's, here's where everything blew up, and, and it blew up in a good way.
• 24:37
  Chip Scholz: Um, I, I went from, I went from, um, being only doing business within about a three-hour range of Charlotte, three-hour driving range of Charlotte, to now I was nationwide.
• 24:52
  Chip Scholz: And, and I did this, uh, um, this thing.
• 24:55
  Chip Scholz: I did all the assessments for the new candidates for the executive director spot.
• 24:59
  Chip Scholz: Um, and then at the convention in, uh, in Vegas, they invited me to come and, uh, and tell the board how to work with this guy.
• 25:10
  Chip Scholz: So I did.
• 25:11
  Chip Scholz: And, uh, um, and you know, I ended up, I-- All of the people that were in that meeting ended up being clients of mine Um, and, and so that guy that I originally met too, he wasn't working for anybody at that point.
• 25:26
  Chip Scholz: He was kind of in between selling a company and going to the next company.
• 25:29
  Chip Scholz: The company that he ended up with was a company called Genco, who, um, was, uh, the CEO and the owner was a guy named Herb Shearer.
• 25:38
  Chip Scholz: Um, he got me involved in coaching in his team.
• 25:41
  Chip Scholz: He was a CEO of one of the, uh, one of the affiliates, uh, one of the subsidiaries.
• 25:45
  Chip Scholz: And, and he introduced me to Herb, and Herb and I, we did a lot of business.
• 25:51
  Chip Scholz: So, you know, I went from, I went from 35 to 135 i- ov- overnight.
• 25:57
  Chip Scholz: And, and so typical first mountain move, I was, I was traveling my butt off, um, 200 nights a year in a hotel.
• 26:07
  Chip Scholz: Um, you know, there was one, there was one particular stretch that, uh, um, I was in, uh, um, Newark on Monday and, uh, Atlanta on Tuesday, Dallas on Thursday, and, uh, LA on Friday, and then back home.
• 26:22
  Chip Scholz: That, that was kind of the way it all went, just life of, of planes, trains, automobiles, and, and, you know, it was, it was kind of crazy.
• 26:30
  Chip Scholz: Um, so in 2012, I had a stroke.
• 26:35
  Eric Dickmann: Okay.
• 26:36
  Chip Scholz: And I, I didn't-- I should have seen it coming.
• 26:41
  Chip Scholz: I just, I, I was working too hard.
• 26:43
  Chip Scholz: I was, I was working 100 hours a week.
• 26:46
  Chip Scholz: Um, I didn't have anything else I was doing.
• 26:48
  Chip Scholz: My wife and I played golf a little bit on the weekends, but most of the time I was behind the desk.
• 26:53
  Chip Scholz: And, uh, um, and just, you know, or, or traveling or waking up in too many hotels and, and getting, getting five hours of sleep a night and, you know, all those things that are just metabolic dynamite.
• 27:05
  Eric Dickmann: Yeah.
• 27:05
  Eric Dickmann: Yeah, burning yourself out.
• 27:07
  Chip Scholz: yeah, so, so I had the stroke, and, uh, um, I, I think that was my valley.
• 27:11
  Chip Scholz: You know, I could say getting laid off was my valley.
• 27:14
  Chip Scholz: It really wasn't.
• 27:15
  Chip Scholz: What, what, what that was is, okay, all of a sudden it forced me to retrench.
• 27:19
  Chip Scholz: I, I couldn't really work for, for a couple months.
• 27:22
  Chip Scholz: Um, I, you know, they, they kept telling me it was a, uh, a mild stroke and, uh, and you don't believe it when you're inside of it.
• 27:31
  Chip Scholz: When I finally got back to it, I just wanted to do everything better.
• 27:34
  Eric Dickmann: It's so interesting that you said that, though.
• 27:37
  Eric Dickmann: I think a lot of people look at a layoff or, you know, a forced retirement or, or something as, as the valley, as you put it.
• 27:44
  Eric Dickmann: But oftentimes it's not, right?
• 27:45
  Eric Dickmann: That's just the push that then either starts some momentum going up or oftentimes, there's a lower point than that as you're trying to figure things out before the recovery starts.
• 27:56
  Eric Dickmann: But it's not often that one thing that is the valley itself.
• 27:59
  Chip Scholz: Well, and, and so, you know, being an ambitious person, um, I, I lost 110 pounds after the stroke.
• 28:06
  Chip Scholz: I, I started exercising.
• 28:08
  Chip Scholz: I started taking care of myself.
• 28:09
  Chip Scholz: If I don't get eight hours a night of sleep, I get cranky.
• 28:12
  Chip Scholz: And just started doing all the things that I should've been doing all the rest of my life but, uh, but had not.
• 28:17
  Chip Scholz: And, uh, and just everything became more valuable.
• 28:20
  Chip Scholz: I, I found woodturning as a, uh, as a hobby, and, uh, um, that's been a big part of my life for the last 12 years.
• 28:28
  Chip Scholz: And,
• 28:28
  Eric Dickmann: And you've written three books you said?
• 28:30
  Chip Scholz: um, I've got three books.
• 28:32
  Chip Scholz: Well, I've got two out.
• 28:33
  Chip Scholz: I had two out, um, so that's another interesting story.
• 28:36
  Chip Scholz: Do you mind if I tell you?
• 28:37
  Eric Dickmann: No, please do.
• 28:39
  Chip Scholz: Okay.
• 28:39
  Chip Scholz: So, so I had the two books out, 2009, 2011.
• 28:43
  Chip Scholz: Um, they were written with other people.
• 28:45
  Chip Scholz: Um, the first one was written with seven other people, and then two other people for the other one.
• 28:50
  Chip Scholz: Um, so I always wanted to write my own book and, uh, um, and so, um, I, I started down that path after the stroke, and I just cognitively I wasn't there.
• 29:00
  Chip Scholz: But, um, I, I, you know, I had probably about 100 pages in a, in a manuscript, and, and I didn't like it, and I put it away in a, uh, uh, in a drawer.
• 29:10
  Chip Scholz: And then a few years ago, my kids gave me, um, StoryWorth
• 29:17
  Eric Dickmann: Okay.
• 29:17
  Chip Scholz: for Father's Day.
• 29:18
  Chip Scholz: It's a, uh, platform that what it does is they send you a question a week, and you write the story of the question, and at the end of a year they, they print a book and send it to you.
• 29:29
  Eric Dickmann: Oh, interesting.
• 29:30
  Eric Dickmann: Okay.
• 29:30
  Eric Dickmann: No, I hadn't heard that.
• 29:31
  Chip Scholz: It is really cool.
• 29:32
  Chip Scholz: So over the course of a year I wrote 60 stories.
• 29:35
  Chip Scholz: The, the book ended up being 411 pages long.
• 29:38
  Eric Dickmann: Oh,
• 29:39
  Chip Scholz: Yeah, I kind of, I kind of blew through my writer's block.
• 29:43
  Chip Scholz: And, and so I dusted off the manuscript.
• 29:45
  Chip Scholz: Six months later I sent it to a publisher, signed a contract, and, and, uh, that came out, um, last October.
• 29:52
  Chip Scholz: That was the first one.
• 29:53
  Chip Scholz: I've got another one that came out in March and, uh, um, you know, the first one took me 10 years to write.
• 29:59
  Chip Scholz: The second one took me a month and a half to write.
• 30:01
  Chip Scholz: Um, I've got another one coming out in October that, uh, um, I wrote in about six months,
• 30:07
  Eric Dickmann: it's also interesting to me because, you talked about hanging your own shingle earlier, and it sounds like in many ways you've done that across multiple aspects of your life, right?
• 30:16
  Eric Dickmann: Not only in business, but your hobbies, becoming an author, something that you didn't do before.
• 30:22
  Eric Dickmann: You've got a professional podcast, uh, set up in your home, and you were talking about being a college radio announcer, right?
• 30:29
  Eric Dickmann: So i- it's come full circle in a way.
• 30:32
  Eric Dickmann: Yeah.
• 30:32
  Chip Scholz: isn't that wild?
• 30:33
  Eric Dickmann: Yeah.
• 30:34
  Eric Dickmann: So what's next?
• 30:35
  Chip Scholz: I still go with the theme of I wanna do everything better.
• 30:39
  Chip Scholz: And, uh, and, um, listen, my, uh, my parents died early.
• 30:44
  Chip Scholz: My dad was 51, my mom was 56 when they died.
• 30:48
  Chip Scholz: Um, it's, uh, it's 42 years since my, uh, my dad died and, uh, um, uh, it's been, uh, 39 years since my mom died.
• 30:58
  Chip Scholz: Um, I, I never really thought that I would live past them.
• 31:02
  Chip Scholz: You know, you get this thing in your head being, being an orphan, um, you start to, you start to think that,"Hey, you're pretty screwed anyway, so, you know, uh, what does it matter if I did?" And I j- I didn't take care of myself.
• 31:13
  Chip Scholz: And, uh, um, uh, and, and so, um, I'm-- I feel doubly blessed that I've been able to have the years that I've been having.
• 31:24
  Chip Scholz: And, uh, um, and, you know, I, I think taking care of yourself, uh, hopefully, uh, um, I can outrun some of the sins of my past.
• 31:33
  Chip Scholz: But, uh, um, you know, I really like being around as long as I have been.
• 31:37
  Chip Scholz: And, uh, um, and so, you know, what, what I'm gonna do is, is next thing better.
• 31:43
  Chip Scholz: I've got another book in the works for 27.
• 31:45
  Chip Scholz: Um, and, uh, um, I, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm kind of working on it.
• 31:50
  Chip Scholz: Um, but I've been so busy doing podcasts that, uh, that I don't have time to, time to work on it.
• 31:56
  Chip Scholz: Um, you know, I'm, I'm teaching a lot.
• 31:59
  Chip Scholz: Um, I'm teaching woodturning a lot.
• 32:01
  Chip Scholz: I'm still, uh, still pretty active in, in working and, you know.
• 32:04
  Chip Scholz: I don't ever plan to retire, you know.
• 32:07
  Chip Scholz: I'm, I'm, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna take calls when I'm in my hospital gown or anything.
• 32:11
  Chip Scholz: But, uh, um, you know, I, I am, I am planning on, uh, working because, you know, that second mountain is about meaning and purpose.
• 32:22
  Chip Scholz: And, and, you know, um, I, I mentioned a guy before, Art Blanchford, he, he told me that, um, there are, um, three stages you go through in retirement.
• 32:33
  Chip Scholz: Um, the first stage is, uh, is vacation,
• 32:37
  Eric Dickmann: Mm-hmm.
• 32:38
  Chip Scholz: lasts about six months.
• 32:39
  Chip Scholz: And then the second stage is depression, and that lasts, you know, a couple years.
• 32:44
  Chip Scholz: And then, and then you find meaning and purpose.
• 32:47
  Chip Scholz: Well, I've found meaning and purpose.
• 32:48
  Chip Scholz: I don't want to go through all the bullshit, and I really don't want a vacation.
• 32:51
  Chip Scholz: I take my vacation when I can get ups, you know?
• 32:54
  Eric Dickmann: I love that.
• 32:55
  Eric Dickmann: I love that.
• 32:56
  Eric Dickmann: And, if we just circle all the way back to the beginning, you know, when you were out there selling beans and corn, what would you t- say to somebody who's doing the same?
• 33:05
  Eric Dickmann: They're out there selling their beans and corn, but maybe they're not finding the fulfillment and the purpose in their job.
• 33:11
  Eric Dickmann: What would you give them as a, as a piece of life advice to say,"Here's maybe something that you should, think about or try next"?
• 33:18
  Chip Scholz: Well, that's, that's the whole thing is to try next.
• 33:21
  Chip Scholz: And, and, you know, one of the, uh, one of the phrases that I love, um, is a Walt Whitman phrase.
• 33:26
  Chip Scholz: It was used in"Ted Lasso," believe it or not, um, is, uh,"Be curious, not judgmental."
• 33:32
  Eric Dickmann: Mm, I love that.
• 33:33
  Chip Scholz: And so what I would, what I would suggest if someone's starting that journey is, is to be curious.
• 33:40
  Chip Scholz: You know?
• 33:40
  Chip Scholz: Because a lot of times you get satisfied with what is, but be curious to ask what can be.
• 33:49
  Eric Dickmann: Yes.
• 33:50
  Chip Scholz: And, don't get pigeonholed.
• 33:51
  Chip Scholz: I, I know so many people that, that have started off as stock market guys or, or, you know, lawyers or whatever, and they get fried.
• 34:01
  Chip Scholz: You know?
• 34:02
  Chip Scholz: And they get, they get burned up in the whole thing and, and, uh, um, and they end up, you know, they end up becoming coaches.
• 34:11
  Chip Scholz: But, but they end up, they end up doing something different that, that gets them on the, on the way to meaning and purpose.
• 34:16
  Chip Scholz: So always be willing to question yourself, question if you're on the right path.
• 34:21
  Chip Scholz: I guess that's, that's it.
• 34:22
  Chip Scholz: I, I don't know if, if we have the self-awareness to, to do that questioning, though.
• 34:27
  Eric Dickmann: I think that's tough, right?
• 34:28
  Eric Dickmann: And five years can become 20 years very quickly, and you look back and say,"Well, maybe I should have taken a harder look at my life, you know, 15 years ago or 20 years ago."
• 34:39
  Chip Scholz: Yeah, preach it.
• 34:40
  Chip Scholz: I'll tell you, preach
• 34:41
  Eric Dickmann: Yeah.
• 34:42
  Eric Dickmann: Yeah.
• 34:42
  Eric Dickmann: it's easy to look in the rear view mirror.
• 34:44
  Eric Dickmann: Sometimes it's harder to look ahead.
• 34:46
  Eric Dickmann: Uh, Chip, this has been a great conversation.
• 34:48
  Eric Dickmann: I'd love if you could share with the audience where they could find out more about you, your coaching services, and of course, your books.
• 34:55
  Chip Scholz: The books are on Amazon.
• 34:57
  Chip Scholz: Um, audiobooks are on, on a lot of different platforms like, um, um, Spotify and, uh, audiobooks.com.
• 35:05
  Chip Scholz: Bonus is, uh, um, if you go to my website, schulzandassociates.com, there is a section called What's Chip Reading?
• 35:13
  Chip Scholz: And on there I have about 140 books that I've read.
• 35:16
  Chip Scholz: Um, I've read a lot more than that, but, uh, um, it, it's about 140 books that have a quick review.
• 35:22
  Eric Dickmann: Ah, that's so helpful.
• 35:23
  Eric Dickmann: Uh, there's so many books out there, and sometimes I've found the best ones come from recommendations from people you trust, so I appreciate that.
• 35:31
  Eric Dickmann: I'll make sure to have all the things that you mentioned, uh, linked up in the show notes today.
• 35:35
  Eric Dickmann: thank you so much for being a guest on the show.
• 35:37
  Eric Dickmann: I've really enjoyed our conversation, hearing about your story and those, transformational moments in your life.
• 35:43
  Chip Scholz: Thanks, Eric, and, and I hope this is not the last time we talk.
• 35:46
  Eric Dickmann: Absolutely.
• 35:47
  Eric Dickmann: Thank you, Chip Thanks for listening to Beyond Expertise.
• 35:51
  Eric Dickmann: You can find show notes, resources, and links mentioned during this episode at podcast.ericdickmann.com.
• 36:01
  Eric Dickmann: If this conversation resonated with you, I hope you'll join me again next time as we continue exploring what it means to reinvent ourselves beyond our careers, titles, and expertise.