Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / JFK (1991) - Oliver Stone | Houselights #193

Transcript

JFK (1991) - Oliver Stone | Houselights #193 · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the net Palty.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to House Lights, our director discussion show here
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: on the Nerd Party Network. We're into our second Oliver
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Stone biopic with nineteen ninety one's JFK. I'm Darren Abc Moser,
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined again by my friends John def Mills
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: and Tristan Ghi Riddell. Buckle up for the next three hours, guys,
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: as we discussed this movie as the best joke I
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: could come up with, because I didn't literally want to
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: cast one of you as Lee Harvey Oswald, I couldn't
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: do it.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: I am not resisting arrest. I am not resisting arrest.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: It would have been you, Tristan, because you have two
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: syllables in your last name. I'm sorry, that's just the
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: way it would have gone on. I get it. I
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: get it.
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: I mean I too like to shout I'm not resisting
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: arrest after I punch a cop.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: Fun story. Fun story. My friend Joey and I. Everybody
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: hears about Joey every so often. We made a pact
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: with each other that if either one of us ever
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: gets framed for something and we're arrested, the other person
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: has to come out of the crowd the way that
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: Jack Ruby does in this movie and just go Oswald
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: and then shoot the other person.
• 1:23
  Speaker 4: So it's just a very friendship.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, very Uh Okay.
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: It's a packed it's a pact between friends.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Well, this movie, it's gonna be an interesting discussion because
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: for Tristan and I this is our first time viewing it.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: But John, you caught this.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: In theaters or theater in theaters, man, say, of course,
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: I saw the doors in theaters. Why wouldn't I see
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: this in theaters? I saw this with my brother, saw
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: this with my brother in our hometown the local movie theater,
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: and it was it was inexperience. Man, it was awesome.
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: It was I mean I still remember sitting there. I
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: remember the row we were in and everything like that
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: at the end of the movie, like whoa. I mean,
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: it's hard to really express how how much mud was
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: slung at Oliver Stone for this movie after it came out,
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: and how nuts it was to think that there was
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: a conspiracy about JFK and to think that the word
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: blah blah, like all of the stuff came out. Now
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: like people look at it, you know, was it thirty
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: something years later and it's like that sounds about right,
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: Like it's so wild just to see time dilate like that, right, Yes,
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: I saw this in the theater.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's because that's the thing is, it's like
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: I looked it up because I was curious on the timing.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: So nineteen ninety one would only have been twenty eight
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: years after sixty three, So that's not a long time.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: Like we're getting that close to like our distance from
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: nine to eleven, you know, as far as a large,
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: you know, impactful American. So yeah, it's it's just so
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: interesting because I almost feel like we could look at
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: this movie in nineteen ninety one and we can look
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: at this movie in twenty twenty four, and we're gonna
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: have a different kind of take because it's just how
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: much time has passed, the way you know, government is viewed,
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: you know, all of those things together. So okay, so
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: you remember the row and the seat, John Oh, I
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: was this. I'm gonna look to you for like, are
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: what was the beat on the street at this moment?
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: What was this kind of like a thing where like
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: the JFK conspiracy was like peeking on the I would
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: say message boards, but those didn't really exist.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: They did not exist at all back then.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: No, but was like this, you know, the urban legend
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: kind of like swirled or like what, like, why why
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: was this movie made? You may not know this answer.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying, like, but why why would in ninety
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: one where they like, let's make a movie about the
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: assada of JFK. Well, but it always like what fueled that?
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: But it had always been something that people, you know,
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: some people would be like, yeah, right, that that was
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: you know, they would have some conspiracy about it, and
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: you'd hear sort of things. But like, of course, it's
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: tough because it blends over time. For me, right, the
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: conspiracies were not really embraced about the JFK assassination, but
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: it was sort of like, yeah, you know, there was
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: something more to it than that sort of thing. And
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: then it was my recollection, at least in my corner
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: of the world. Was then that Oliver Stone basically kicks
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: the door in with this movie, and all of the sudden,
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: everybody is absolutely enamored of the idea that there is
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: a conspiracy, and it absolutely became just a part of
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: the zeitgeist for everybody. Clean on the fire as it were, well,
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: I mean it becomes so much just a part of
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: the culture that Seinfeld has an episode mocking the trial
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: where Kramer and Newman claim that they've been spit on
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: by a player, and then Jerry recreates it just like
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: the courtroom scene and goes, so the loogie would have
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: had to go up in the air and come around
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: and hit Newman on the back of the neck swinging.
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: You've made it exactly. And the funniest thing being Wayne
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: Knight was in that scene in Seinfeld and he's in
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: this movie, and it was like it was so beautifully done.
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I would really for my personal experience, this
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: is the movie that really sort of brought the whole
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: conspiracy idea to the forefront, at least in my corner
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: of the world.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: Well, and that's the way the conspiracy is presented, because
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: it's it's like they're almost not proving it. They're proving
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: how ridiculous the non conspiracy official effect is. It's like
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: the reverse of it, and you start to go like yeah,
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: like when we start to say and then Lee Harvey
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: you know, ran in ninety seconds like down, you know,
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: here and again are all pieces and it is a biopic,
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: so we're gonna take all of this with a with
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: a grain of salt. But let's go to our man
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: on the street who was standing on the grassy, Noel Tristan. Uh,
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: this was your first time watching this, and I think
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: you watched it with missus Riddell. What were I did
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: expecting for this? Like, I mean, all that's on the
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: poster is JFK and some flags. If not, you know,
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: did you think, oh, courtroom drama or you know, really
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: long build up? You know what was What are you expecting?
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: I honestly didn't know what I was expecting when I
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: started the movie. I had no idea. I was kind
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: of a bank blank slate. I was a little apprehensive
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: to watch it after the Doors because I'm like, if
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: you got so much wrong in the Doors, is this
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: even going to be enjoyable? In JFK and you know
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: spoiler alert, he doesn't solve it, and so I'm like, oh, man,
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: is this gonna be like The Medicine Man? Do you
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: guys remember that when we reviewed The Medicine Man? And like, yeah,
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: like Sean Connery.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: If it's like a hair's breadth from securing cancer and
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: then like the forest burns down and you're like, uh,
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: uh okay, I guess we're done.
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, But that's the thing is that like, but then
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: they like they continue on to keep finding it and
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: we are as we're as we're watching it build up,
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: We're like, well, we know they're not going to cure cancer,
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: so why are we watching this? And so part of
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: me was just like, you know, what's that going to be?
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: You know, like like we know the n and they're
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: going to solve it, So what am I going to
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: get out of this? So I was really apprehensive, and
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: at the same time, I was like, well, Zodiac works,
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: so maybe JFK will work too. And so actually I
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: sat down to watch this with my wife, and my
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: wife had seen this before and she liked it, uh,
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: and so she was interested in showing it to me.
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: And we got like twenty minutes in and something happened
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: where we had to stop it and move on. And
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: I was like, man, we're not gonna be able to
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: finish this tonight or even continue watching this tonight. And
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: she's like, well, we're twenty minutes in. It's just three
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: more hours of this. I'm like, what are you talking about? Oh,
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: what you saw? It's just three more hours of.
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: That, and that was not a lie.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I know. Often or sometimes when we're having a chat,
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: we'll kind of start with a rough rating in our
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: hearts and it might move up or down. This one's
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: gonna be an uphill climb for me, because I swear
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: two thirds of this movie. It took that long for
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: it to really pook me before the courtroom drama, like
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: a little bit before then. But I was just bombarded
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: with there's so much information, there's so many characters, there's
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: so many names, there's so many events and things, and
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: it's just thrown at you. Like later it kind of
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: gets sordid, but for the first half, it's like a
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: shotgun blast, and I was just so overwhelmed where I
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: was like, I kind of was just glazing over because
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: I'm like, they're just throwing so much at me. I
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: can't I don't know if I'm supposed to be piecing
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: it together right now. It's not like a murder mystery
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: where all the details are going to be revealed and
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: then you'll have the aha, you know, deaneum at the end.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: It's like, no, it's not going to be like that.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: So it was just it was a lot. And also
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: ninety one is long enough ago that a lot of
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: these actors, which everybody at ninety one was in this movie.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: My goodness, are so many stars but there I want
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: to talk about that that they start to blend. Yeah.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: I was just gonna say, like, you know, like when
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: you watch an old enough movie that certain actors like
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Tommy Lee Jones I did not recognize for a good
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: couple of minutes because he melded into that role, which
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: I I admire him for because every other role I've
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: ever seen him in it's blatantly Tommy Lee Jones that
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: I see. But how is that for you? Trisen As
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: You're like, oh my gosh, it's you, Oh my gosh,
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: you And then Sutherland shows up, and then Wayne Knight's
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: over there, and it's like, what's going on?
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: Well, I actually, before I watched it, I actually took
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: a screenshot of the cast and texted it to John saying,
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: holy crap. And so here's just here's just the top
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: row folks. Okay, this isn't everybody. This is just the
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: top row here, Kevin Costner, Tommy Lee Jones, Gary Oldman,
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: Kevin Bacon, Michael Rooker, Jack Lemon, Laurie Metcalf, Sissy Spask,
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: Joe Peshi, John Candy Prewett, Taylor, Vince, j O Sanders,
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: Walter Mathow, Sally Kirkland, and Donald Sutherland again just top
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: row here. There's way more people in it.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, there are. There are a lot of people
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: in this movie. A whole lot of people in this movie.
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: Vincent Anofrio in a very small role, as a very
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: small rode. They always loved Anofrio. Absolutely can't go wrong
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: with Danafrio. But I it's it's interesting to me. I
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: think this is gonna be an interesting ride from my perspective,
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: specifically because they're the way Tristan that you talk about
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: encountering seven is sort of how JFK was for me,
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: because there are so many, so many uh places where
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: it cuts and it jumps in like it it like
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: flips around and you get inside a character's head while
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: they're talking, and then you're outside and then there's this
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: amazing ability I think to tell the story while jumping
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: around multiple timelines at the same time. But I I
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: got I gotta put this out there. What really struck
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: me this time because we're specifically watching this in terms
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: of biopics is this is.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: And the director's cut. I will say we watched, we.
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: Did watch the director's cut. But what's fascinating to me
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: about this is that this is two biopicks, two massive biopicks.
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: The Doors in JFK. The Doors is not about the Doors.
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: It's about Jim Morrison, and JFK is about Jim Garrison.
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: But really the conspiracy around you know that he's like
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: trying to uncover and everything like that. So, I mean,
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: my question for you two, since this is I've lost
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: perspective in a lot of ways on this film. But
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: my question to you two is like, did you feel
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: that there was a thread that there was a definitive
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: biopic action going on here or did it feel more
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: like a pseudo documentary with a lot of stuff around it.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: Well, Tristan, can you take that one first, because you
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: said you started to try to research just what was
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: real as far as like historical events or courtrooms or
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: anythings like that. Just because yeah, after watching The Doors
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: and it being so off the mark, I think that's
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: a healthy dose of dose of skepticism.
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, in terms of realism, it's it's completely debatable. I
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: think that's the thing is that it's really vague in
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: its criticisms, like let me, let me put it this way.
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: In the doors, they you're able to say, oh, the
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: TV throw didn't happen, Thanksgiving fight didn't happen with this one.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: An witness that can counter it, Yeah, you have.
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: An eyewitness you said, like, oh yeah, I saw this,
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: or like Joe Peshi's character like where they like Faery,
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: where it's just like, oh, well, you know, like you know,
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: Stone says that he has a he had a close
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: connection with Lee Harvey Allswalt and did X, Y and Z,
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: But then the criticism is they might have crossed paths,
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: but there's no evidence to say that they had a
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: strong connection. Like that's the thing is that there's like
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: there's really no super strong evidence against it, but at
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: the same time there's no super strong evidence for it.
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: So Oliver Stone proponents are set like they have stuff
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: to back it up, but at the same time, how
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: weak or how strong is that connection that he's making,
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: and opponents are the same thing where they're just like, well,
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: he might be taking this too far, or this isn't
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: this is kind of a jump, or the magic bullet
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: possibly could happen. You know, it's all really really nebulous.
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: So it's not black and white like in the doors
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: in the door, is this black and white? Like that
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: didn't happen. This didn't happen, That doll didn't exist at
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: this time. And you know, you look at JFK like
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: you can say, like, oh, well, you know that speech
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: at the end in the courtroom, that didn't happen. But
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: it's all things that Garrison said and did at one point,
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: or it was in a book that he wrote, so
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: it was all Garrison's words, but it's a movie and
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: they compacted it into a speech, right, So I think
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: Stone really walked the line here with.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: Being able to cash.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: It's JFK.
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: It's JFK. He's able to be credible. And like even
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: if he's stretching it to the point of breaking, he's
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: not breaking, but he's stretching it like stretch Armstrong.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: So you would say it's kind of constructed around you know,
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: this is my biopic, like you said on Jim Garrison
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: and things that he said, almost like we were talking
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: about how the courtroom was not proving this. It was
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: saying the official account is so preposterous. It's like we're
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: not trying to prove what JFK it happened to JFK.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: We're saying, this is what Jim Garrison said happened to
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: JFK like a once removed kind of a picture, right,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Like like I kind of feel like he would have.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: Like I haven't read the book that it's based off of,
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: but it almost feels like you kind of started with
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: that courtroom and it's like, Okay, we need to land here.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: How do we build everything to land in that courtroom scene?
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: And I'll be honest, like I could have almost done
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: without the first half, Like I know I kind of
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: mentioned that before, but like if they had just kind
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: of started with not in sixty three, but because there's
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: a big time jump, I mean a couple of years
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: at least when they actually start the investigation, like start
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: there and you know, show a little bit in flashback,
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: but I didn't feel a benefit of seeing things that
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: actually happened in sixty three later on. Like that's just
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: me personally, But.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: What Yeah, picking up what I'm saying, John, I am,
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: and I don't I don't dismiss it. I get what
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: you're saying. I think it's important because Stone is setting
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: the stage, he's world building in.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: That time, which I definitely see that.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And that's why I think it's important because
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: it makes it shows. What I give Stone credit for,
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: especially here in the director's cut, but also in the
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: theatrical cut, is he presents the idea that not everybody
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: loved Kennedy, that this was a tragedy, but there were
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: people who were like, ah, good riddance, and like, if anything,
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: I think that's that goes a long way, regardless of
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: historical accuracy, of giving the film a sense of credibility,
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: because it feels like the real world. He's setting something
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: up where he's building the world for you to be
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: in to say, look, this is a world where you
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: have people that really hated this guy. They're not even
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: involved in any conspiracy I'm going to show you, but
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: there were people that had that type of hatred. And
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: I think that pays off. By showing the people that
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: were involved in the conspiracy, you're like, oh, well, yeah,
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: there were other people that didn't have positions of power
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: like this. It probably would have done something like this
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: if they had the opportunity. And I think that sort
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: of thing is important for the film to set up.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: It's its own world, it's adjacent to reality world, so
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: that you buy into it for the duration of the picture.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: That's my counter to that.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: That is true, because like I did feel it did
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: feel very real, Like this is an era before you know,
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: the Internet and social media and all the package that
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: comes with that, and you still had people acting like
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: people acting in selfish ways, acting in scared ways, acting
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: in best interest and pulling strings and big pictures and
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: so it felt very human through the whole get go,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: even though it's decades before. But yeah, so so Tristan,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: when you were watching the next twenty minute by twenty
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: minute by twenty minute chunk that was repeating the first
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: twenty minutes, when did it kind of hook you with
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: its story? Was it not till much later in the
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: you know, in the courtroom case, or or like when
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: his family like you start to get the subplot of
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: the family kind of like falling apart because he's so committed,
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: like fanatically to the case.
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: Donald Sutherland, Yeah, yeah, he kind.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: Of sums it up like and it just starts to
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: spell it out in a very practical way.
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: It's there's a lot of exposition in this movie. This
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: is basically exposition the movie like that, that's.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: What this is kind of is.
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: And I mean, but that's that's the concept that you're
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: buying into. Like this is like Stone does a really
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: great job of you know, they say show, don't tell,
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: but Stone shows Wally tells in this and this. This
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: movie had twenty eight hundred shots and they filmed it
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: in only seventy two days, which is insane for movie
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: this massive. And I know I'm getting off track. Care
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: I'll get back on track. But as I was watching it,
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: I was I was like, holy crap, Like the amount
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: of setups that this took. Like I think when we
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: were at Pruett Taylor Vince's part when he's at the
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: train yards and this is pretty early on, when he's
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: talking about all the guys who are on the other
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: side of the grassy knoll, just that sequence alone had
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: something like twelve setups, twelve different shots. I'm not talking
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: about cuts, I'm talking about shots, right, And that's a
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: monument in this it's just so exactly there's just so
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: much coverage, just moving the camera, getting different angles, and
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: just for a movie that's this long, it's just I
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: can't even imagine the nightmare and logistical you know, you know,
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: just I guess monument to logistics that this movie was
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: was incredibly pressive, incredibly impressive. And I want to talk
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: about the editing later on. But Donald Sutherland's piece was
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: another one of those pieces that had just so many
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: shots and not shots that were reused, shots that just
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: we hadn't seen before, all new stuff, and you know,
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: like cut back and forth with different kind of film
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: stock and black and white and color. Some was in
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: sixteen millimeters, someone was in thirty five millimeter, some was
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: even eight millimeter I think, and it was just two
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: milimeter it was, and cutting it in like and again,
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: sidetrackeding like he cut it all together on three fourths
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: of an inch tape in order to get to have
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: the ability to have frenetic editing, which I think really
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: lent itself to the piece. But Sutherland's almost soliloquy was
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: sixteen seventeen minutes long.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: And sale binding. I'll go ahead and say it, oh yeah,
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: thank you.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: It's just wild. Like if I had somebody to rewatch,
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: I would just watch that part again, Like that is
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: so good.
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: That's the peak of the movie. Like that, that is
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: that's the best that the movie is. I'm not saying
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: that it's it's downhill from there. Well, I guess I
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: kind of am saying that, but you know what I'm
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: trying to say, like, it's the best part.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: Of climax of the movie. It kind of is.
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: I don't know, I wouldn't go so far as saying climax.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: But it's starting that third act.
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: It's so compelling, and Sutherland makes it look so easy.
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: He's just he's an effortless actor and he I think
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: Stone originally wanted to get Brando to be in that spot.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: And that would have been very diaper and read it
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: back because I mean, that's the thing. I can't see it.
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: You can't hire Brando to do a monologue now that
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: you actually want to be accurate, you just just ask Coppola. Yeah,
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: And I think that would have been crazy. I love Brando,
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: I love his performances, but he would have been absolutely
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: wrong for this role. So the Land did it with ease.
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: He did it with a smile, but it was also compelling.
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: And I think in that movie, like when someone was
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: able to sum it up and he was kind of
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: that deep throat not just kind of he was that
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: deep throat character. It made you realize, oh, okay, if
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: even like a quarter of this is true, you're like,
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: maybe Stone has something here and I need to pay attention.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the first time that that Garrison gets kind
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: of acknowledged acknowledgement like vindication. It's like the first time
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: that someone's like, no, you're you're right like you. I
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: think when he says you're closer than you think you are,
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: that like sent chills and then he just like boom,
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: this is what I think happened. And and after that
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: that's when he's kind of you know when when Garrison
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: is like, oh my gosh, it's too big, Like it
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: almost takes a fight out of him because he realizes, how,
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: you know in the story, how how big it is.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: What do you think, John, No, I think I will
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: actually side with you, Darren when you referred to Sutherland's
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: speech as the climax, because I think there's before then
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: where Garrison's sort of probing in the dark, trying to
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: figure it out. Things don't seem right, and then you
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: have this scene where Sutherland ties it up and says
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: you're closer than you think. He's saying it to the
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: audience as much as he is to Garrison. And then
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: the back half of it is that's the jolt that
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: the hero needs to get him across that final mile
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: right and get to that trial and gets.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: He's starting to get pressure, he's starting to get like
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: Wells trying to have to pay for his you knowdication.
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: But it all revolves around that. That's why it's so key.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: The performance that Sutherland gives is everything hinges on whether
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: that scene sells you that Garrison wasn't wasting your time
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: before this and that he's not going to waste your
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: time after it, because you can pivot on this one
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: moment here. And I remember Sutherland's scene being one of
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: the ones that my brother and my friends and I
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: all talked about at the time. We all talked about
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: Sutherland specifically because it is that great a scene, which
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: is not to take anything away from some of the
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: other fantastic performances like Gary Oldman's is amazing in this
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: He's one year off from playing Francis Ford Kopolos Bromstoker's Dracula,
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: you know, so this is just on his upward swing.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: And I think that.
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: Like that for those of you who don't know John
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: believes that that his psis is insults.
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: Yes, But the thing is, I think that since we
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: look at the work of directors and everything like that,
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: I think you look at the doors and then you
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: look at this and you see a director who not
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: only has a clear vision, he's definitely telling a story here,
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: but you look at the performances that Stone gets. There
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: is I mean, this is somebody who knows how to
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: work with an actor and get the performance that he wants,
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: notwithstanding how good Kevin Costner can do a Southern accent.
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: But like the rest of it, like you believe, like,
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: you lose the actors, no matter how will you know them,
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: you lose the actors. Stone is so gifted in getting
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: an actor to just give that performance where you lose them,
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: where you forget you're watching Sissy Spacek, you forget that
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: you're watching Gary Oldman, you forget all of these sorts
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: of things. Now, Sissy Spacek has an incredibly thankless performance
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: or not performance thankless role in this film, where I
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: think that Stone also as a director, doesn't always know
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: what to do with a female character effectively, And I
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: think that's one of the shortcomings that comes through in
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: both The Doors and.
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: In JFK the Nolan syndrome.
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: Sure, sure, if you want call it that I had
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: a heart.
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: This is my own failing. This is not Stone's, this
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: is not Spacics. This is my own failing. Whenever I
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: see Sissy Spacek, seeing her as a middle aged person
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: with five kids is hard for me because it's either
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: Carrie or an older woman, like there's no in between
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: for Spasic for me. And I don't know why. It
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: was just I was so like Sissy's basic is the
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: only one who didn't convince me that she was someone else.
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: And again I said, that's my own failing.
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: That The most difficult thing I think is that Stone
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: like the one scene where like I would come back
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: and just like kind of harp on it is where
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: they get in their fight. It doesn't play like any
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: real fight ever has between a man and wife. Never
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: in history. There's and he even like walks out with
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: his kids. It's like, yep, I hate getting in fights too, kids,
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: So let me tell you something about fights. It's like no, no,
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: everybody's pissed, you're slamming you like you know, you storm
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: off and it's like Daddy where are you fighting if
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: we just are just let Daddy call down for you know,
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: like I'm not trying to like open the door. Like
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying that there's like strife in the household
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: or anything like that. But like when you get in
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: an argument, right your blood's up, you're not suddenly like
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: taking a leisurely stroll out to.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Say in cinema, besides, this is not yeah, it doesn't land.
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: And to piggyback off of that, I think that was
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: probably the weakest thing in the movie was there was
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: no chemistry between Kevin Costner and Sissy's Basic. There was
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: just none. Like I do not see them as a
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: believable married couple whatsoever. And if Liz Garrison had a
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: lesser role than I'd say that didn't really matter. You know,
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: anybody could play that role. But because she couldn't, I
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: mean she she has a substantial role. It's it. I
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: feel like I think Basic was a little miscast.
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: I think that I'll lay it more at the I'll
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: lay it more at the script, at the director's feet,
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: what have you, because I think that it really is
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: for all of the great performances that Stone gets out
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: of people, I think we might even see this going forward.
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: I think it really is just he has a difficulty
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: getting a you know, knowing how to get that chemistry
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: going between the actors. I mean it could also just
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: be that they cast Sissy Space because it's Cissy spacek
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: and Costner was on his upswing, and so you cast
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: Costner and they cast without thought of chemistry, and then
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: you start shooting.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: It's like, don't chemistry was a factor in the equation.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: But yeah, but like you said, John, I mean, disappearing
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: of the role is like the subtitle of this movie.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, I and I kind of related to how
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: long it takes me to kind of realize an actor
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: as an actor. You know, it is who I And
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: sometimes that's like makeup and costume and stuff, but a
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: lot of times it's the performance. Like I said before,
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: you know, Tommy Lee Jones, his voice is so recognizable
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: that I was blown away how long it took me
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: to like confirm to myself that that's who that was.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: John Candy even who is very recognizable, like melted into
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: that tiny, tiny role, you know, maybe the sunglasses, but
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: also Joe Peshy, which I mean he had the terrible
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: wig and eyebrows on purpose. But that was also another
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: role where I just was like, I'm pretty sure that's
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Joe Pesci. Let me look it up. You know, if
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: you have to look it up to be sure, then
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: they're disappearing into it. And that was all over this movie.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: Very well cast, very well acted, I guess, yeah.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: And I think that that, you know, with with the
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: fact that they shot, you know, to your point, christ
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: in his man and he set ups as they did
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: with as complex a film as this is, with all
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: of these different moving pieces, to get performances like this,
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: I think is no small feat. I think it really
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: is something that should be applauded forgetting that across the line.
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: I think that if anything, just to double back again
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: to the Costner spasic thing is, it's just not Stone's
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: not interested in telling that story necessarily. So there's almost
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: a feeling of like he put it in here because
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: he felt.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: Like being there is almost an inconvenience to the plot.
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: Right, But he needs to show it to show that
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: he's a family man and a good man and there
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: verse because that's.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: The only thing he wins us. He wins his family back,
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: that's the only victory he has in the end.
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's it's one of those things where
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: I just I mean, I guess the ultimate question is
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: is does the rest of the movie make up for
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: this shortcoming, you know, at its core essentially, which is
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: the relationship between husband and wife. Does it make up
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: for it? Is it interesting enough that you move past
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: it and forgive it?
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: Well, I'll leave that for final thoughts. I wanted to
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: circle back to editing because we started talking about that again,
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: and I wanted to start with you, John, just because
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: I'm assuming you've seen both the theatrical and the extended edition.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: Yes I have, Yes, I have.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: So I don't know how often, how far between those
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: two viewings were, But could you give me a glimpse
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: of like what was extended? Was it just more of
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: the same? Is there like a huge plot in the middle.
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: No, I think that there's enough distance that I think
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: that this is one of those director's cuts where a
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: stone where the director like rearranged a couple of things
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: and inserted a couple of other things. I think there's
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: actually a There are some shots that seem to jump
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: out in a sense because they look a little too
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: clean compared to the rest of the film in a way,
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: but in terms of like distinct differences. I couldn't sit
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: there and like I couldn't supproved or film this thing
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: and be like now that right there, that's what's different
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: about that.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: I because he added about seventeen minutes.
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: So not yeah, I mean it's a chunk of times,
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: it's a good chunk. But I think that part of
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: it also is that he did a couple of rearrangements as.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: Well, so it was literally a director's edition, just not
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: just like, oh I always wanted that subplot and now
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: I can put it back in. It's like it's a
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: reworking of the movie as that point.
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: I don't think in any really larger way, but like
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: there's a part of me that while I was watching this,
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: maybe it's just too much time. Maybe I need to
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: go back and watch the theatrical. But there were definitely
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: parts where I was like, ah, this this feels a
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: little different. But maybe it was just the added length.
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: I don't know what about you.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: Tristan obviously have not seen the theatrical, but you were
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: starting to lean into the edit, you know, I mean,
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: beside the whole film stock change and black and white
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: but I think you kind of encapsulated it when you
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: said a lot of this movie is someone telling you
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: something and you're also seeing it. It's like show and
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: tell at the same time, which I think it's such
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: a clear way of saying it, because yeah, it's like
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: even Donald Sutherland's parts, you know, that could have been
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: lock the camera down. They're sitting on a bench on
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: the mall for half of that, but instead we get
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: almost every single thing he's saying is shown in like
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: third person or first person or whatever we're given. But
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: how did that all come together in your viewing with
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: the editing?
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: Before I go into that one thing, because you mentioned
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: the Donald Sutherlands scene again, I want to mention that,
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: like from an editing perspective, one thing that I thought
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: was really beneficial was that the scene was that scene
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: was originally in two parts, like that he was supposed
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: to meet with X in Washington, d C. Two different
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: times won the time when we saw it, and then
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: they would have a follow up conversation after he lost
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: the case, and that would have been the last thing
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: you saw in the movie. And I think that would
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: have been the wrong move. And it was the wrong
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: move because I think it was great to put it
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: together as they did, and they found that in post production.
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: And also on top of that, that's one thing like
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: that's something that he dorsified where that conversation never took place,
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: but it's all the informatory but you needed it for
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: the story and all the information that X gave Garrison.
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: Garrison came to his own conclusion about and X, who's
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: based off of a real person, said all of those
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: things either in his book and or two Stone himself.
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: So again it's all it didn't really happen, but it's
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: all backed up by stuff that people said, is it I,
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: is it not? We don't know, but it's backed up
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: by sources. But in terms of editing, this movie was
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: ten years ahead of its time. In terms of editing.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: This was.
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: This this editing style. If you told me this was
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: if I was you know, separated by time, and you
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: told me this was a nineteen ninety one film, just
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: based on the editing, I would say, no, you're wrong,
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: this is an early two thousand film. This kind of style,
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: this kind of commercial editing, of this frenetic pacing, the
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: quick cuts, the moving around like yes, I'm not saying
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: Stone and his editors like Joe Hushing and Pietro Scalia,
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: you know, invented this style. You know, this kind of
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: style has existed since at least the sixties. I'm not
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: saying that they invented it, but putting it together in
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: this kind of narrative structure and in this kind of format,
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: especially in something as dense as this as even though
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: like we use the term biopic, we're using it loosely.
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: With this amount of information, this kind of subject subject material,
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: it was very rare to see this kind of style
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: of editing applied to this, and I think, in my opinion,
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: this is what makes this movie a little bit better than.
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: Let me rephrase that, like this had an opportunity be
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: to be extremely dry. This was if you read this
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: on paper, it's an incredibly dry script. But Stone brings
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: it to life with his performances, and the actors bring
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: it to life with what they bring to the table,
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: and then John Williams brings it to life with his score,
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: and then the editors make sure that the heartbeat is
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: stable with their frenetic editing style. And if it was
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: a straight forward biopic or if not biopick, but if
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: it was just a straightforward, normal nineteen ninety one, early nineties,
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: late eighties editing for a political drama this you would
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: have fallen asleep at the hour and forty five minute mark.
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: You needed something like this to keep your brain active
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: so that you paid attention. And this was a genius
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: move by Stone. The editing is the best thing about
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: the movie. And as someone who has editive has edited
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: narrative structure, documentary structure, commercial structure, it I see all
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: of those things utilized in this three hour and something piece,
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: and from a macros perspective, I think, yeah, yeah, definitely
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: could have been trimmed down. I feel like some of
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: that key exposition that Sutherland gives and that Bacon gives
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: and Candy gives feels like could have been tightened, Like
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: you could have been those could have been your anchor
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: points and in between could have been tightened. Oh, speaking
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: of Bacon. So I listened to a podcast for years
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: where the opening theme had a bunch of movie quotes
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: put together, and one of them was you're not a
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: bad looking man, mister Garrison, and I had no idea
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: what that was from for years and years, and then
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: when I watched this movie, I almost spat out my
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: drink when Bacon said that. But regardless, now I know,
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: but regardless, like I can't, I cannot give enough praise
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: to the editing, coming from a person who is edited
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: for twenty years.
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: Well, the Academy agreed with you too, because they was
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: good best Editing.
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: So I was really scared because I knew you had
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: the answer to that. Of course I was really scared
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: which direction you were gonna go.
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: It also won Best Cinematography, so go figure the great
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: Robert Richardson. Good lord. But I think that what you
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: touch on on there is something that I think a
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: lot of people sleep on with this movie, which is
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: the score. This is not your typical like when you
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: think of John Williams, you know what you think? I say,
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: John Williams, everybody knows what just popped in their head.
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: Everybody knows whichever one it was. It's okay, okay, happens
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: to all of us. But this is one of those scores.
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: In a couple of years, he's going to do Shindler's
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: List that this is one of those scores where your reminded.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: Is hook yeah, or right after the one he does
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: after hook.
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: Right, But this is one of those scores that like
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: Schindler's List, like Munich, like like any of these other smaller,
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: like more intimate types of scores where you're reminded of
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: the fact that the John Williams who's done all the
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: big bomb bass for the blockbusters, that's that's just a
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: part of his talent, and like, you look, this score,
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: I think is so. I think it's captivating. Honestly, I
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: think that this is another one of those Williams scores
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: where like he showed up and he's like, Okay, I
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: gotta I gotta tie it all together and give it
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: that emotional vibe that that he's looking for here, and
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: he watches the film, he watches how it's coming together
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: and goes, okay, I know how to tie all with
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: this together. So everybody's watching it, and I love this score.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: It's a very interesting process. I was reading that, you know,
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: he like I was saying, he was still working on
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: on Hook and so didn't have as much time to
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: commit to JFK and so kind of I think saw
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: like the first half of the movie and then basically
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: developed six kind of motifs and you know, put those
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: and you heard it, Like I think the one that
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: stuck out the most to me was kind of the
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: you know, do do do do? Like the like tense
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: things are happening, because he uses a very very very
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: similar motif in Jurassic Park whenever, like kind of mysterious
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: things are happening and they're trust sneaking around. It's very
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: very very similar, which is also John Williams. But yeah,
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: this is a motif movie, not so much by person
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: like his other works, but by kind of mood or
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: moment that it's you know, and it does it ties
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: it together in the auditory way. Yeah.
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: I think there are so many technical pieces of this movie, Trisa.
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: I like the way you said it where it's like
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: that in terms of editing, it's ahead of its time.
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: I think that there is the sense that, like you said,
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: there's a director who knows that if you don't put
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: this together in a specific way, people will fall asleep
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: in the first fifteen minutes or walk out. They're just
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: going to be bored out of their skulls. And there
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: may still be people like that, Darren, but I can
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: tell you that when I sat down to watch this,
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: I was like, look, okay, this is seventeen minutes longer. Okay,
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: I'm going to go in, And before I knew it,
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: forty five minutes had passed and I was like, oh, oh, okay,
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: well I'll stick it out for a little bit longer here.
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: I will completely cop to it. Since the first time
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: I saw it, This movie grabs me from the beginning
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: and I'm off to the races with it and I'm like, yeah,
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: tell me more, come on, come on, keep giving it
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: to me here. The one thing that I would possibly
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: change is the fact that I did feel the length
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: of this I've never noticed the run time of JFK before,
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: and I think this is my first time watching the
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: director's cut, and this is the first time where I
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: was like a little bit long, Like I never felt
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: that way about the movie before. And I know it's
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: easy to say I will seventeen minutes in terms of
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: a three hour film. It's like, seventeen minutes is an
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: eternity on film.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: There is a reason two minutes is all of the
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: other Sutherland's speech.
• 43:48
  Speaker 4: Right, but one pod race.
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: There's a reason that people cut things down that you know,
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: like it's it's just the truth.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: And in length, it's like you're already in the triple.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: So it's like, at that point, seventeen minutes is like
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: chicken feed on the end, you know, you know.
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, because it's like it's
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: like The Godfather. The First Godfather, you know, clocks in
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: around three hours, but it feels just like the right
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: amount of time, and I think the Second Godfather is
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: a little over three hours. It's like, maah, there's not
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: really a second I would cut from that film. Is
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: there something I would cut from this? Honestly, I don't
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: know where I would like I had had to sit
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: down and rewatch the thing and be like, I guess
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: maybe that, But like, you can't cut shots out. This
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: is a thing where you're gonna have to because of
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: the way it's put together. You're gonna have to take
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: like sections out or recompose the thing.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: And it's like you're gonna have to do that, not
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: necessarily in the edit. You're gonna have to do that
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: where you're like, Okay, we can't show this whole portion
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: of the assassination, so we have to have someone say
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: the information in less time than we could show it, right,
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: But they kind of found that they're showing it as
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: they're saying it, so it's kind of the same amount
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: of time. So yeah, it's a really good point. It's
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: so interwoven. I don't know where you could cut. You
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: can't cleanly cut, you'd have to pick at it all over.
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So I mean, I guess that's probably why I
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: have the And again, this is time dilation sort of thing.
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: Like it's been a while since I watched the original cut,
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: and so it's like, I don't know if if it's
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: my mind playing tricks on me, but there I swear
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: there are moments where like even just the look of
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: a shot was different, like it just looked different from
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: the texture of the rest of the film, And I
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: was like, I feel like this has been rearranged in
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: some way, but I'm probably imagining that. I would imagine that.
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: I know that Stone has regretted the final cut of
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: The Doors, and I agree with him on that because
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: there's a scene at the end that he cuts out
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: that I think really needs to stay in that film.
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: With this, I would love to sit down with him
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: and say, so, which cut do you really think people
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: should watch of this film? I'd love to get his
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: read on that.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: All right, well, as I even though I said it
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: was going to be three hours in the beginning I live.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: This is the podcaster's cut of our podcast where we
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: try to keep it to around an hour. We honor
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: your time as you honor ours as we watch these
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: movies for you. So we're going to circle third and
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: have our courtroom seen as we debate the ratings for this.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: So let's start with you, John, with any final thoughts,
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: any extra tidbits, suggestions.
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: This is where I will throw out something that had
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: never really occurred to me in all of the history
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: of it. Like I love everything around the JFK conspiracy theories.
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: I mean, boy, it would be so easy to unseal
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: all of those files, jerks, so that we could all
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: look at them ourselves. But that's okay, you know, just
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: keep kicking that can down.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: Something gets unsealed in twenty nine, which is not that
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: far away.
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: They can keep extending those things. Don't worry, and they will.
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: And the previous administration also unleashed some stuff, but nothing juicy.
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, just little tidbits here and there to give us hope.
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: But the one thing that hit me, and it was
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: kind of odd, but I actually talked about it with
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: my wife was there's a famous shot and it's a
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: documentary shot that is in this film. You know, it's
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: a still photo, but it's actual history. It's not staged
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: for the film, and it's of LBJ taking the oath
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: of office on the Air Force One with his hand
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: on the Bible. And it never really hit me until
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: this watching of the film. And maybe I need to
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: give more credit to Stone for the way he portrays things,
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: or the way he got my head in that space
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: or something like that. But I think maybe for the
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: first time, if not in my life. Then in a while,
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: I saw Jackie Kennedy standing next to LB. Jay and
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: I got angry because I thought to myself, why did
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: you make that poor woman, with what she just went
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: through stand next to that guy well he's being couldn't
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: you just let her not have to take that picture?
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: Right? Why does she need to be there exactly?
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: It really the magnitude of what happened hit me in
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: that moment when I saw that shot because of what
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: Stone had constructed. It's a testament to the film, I think,
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: in that this is something that's so easy to be
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: emotionally detached from, especially this many years later. But then
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: when I saw that that that photograph in the context
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: of this film, I got that. I got that that anger,
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: that upset, that that sorrow about everything.
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: All right, So what rating did you give it? John?
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: And as always, who in the history of this historic
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: event was Lance Reddick.
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: Lance Reddick would be as much as I love him,
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: I would put him in his ex oh, because I
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: think he could play that role really, really well. But
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: you know, and we always give the qualifier. I would
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: never cut Tonald Sutherlin from this film, never in a
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: million years. But you know we're if we're wish casting
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: and Sutherland's not available, yeah, I'm going with Redick and
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: it's Look, it's five stars. I consider this absolutely mesmerizing, spellbinding.
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: Love it. It's a little too long, there are a
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: couple of things that don't work, but on the whole,
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: this is the movie that Oliver Stone rightly should always
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: be remembered for. This is his masterpiece. This is well
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: any given Sunday gives it a run for its money.
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: But like, this is an incredible film from so many
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: different perspectives, and it's so much fun to watch. And
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: even if you think it's all bunk, it's so much
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: fun to talk about all of the conspiracy theories that
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: he's throwing out there. It's so much fun to talk
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: about this movie. So five stars, solid entertainment top to bottom.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: It does sound fun. Let's talk about it. Oh wait,
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: we just there you go, So Tristan on your first rewatch,
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: how any final thoughts on this historical document, just like
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: Gilligan's Island. But yeah, final thoughts and and of course
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: your lance reddi pick.
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: I don't I don't think I have too many final
• 50:18
  Speaker 4: thoughts on it. I feel like I kind of expressed
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: how I feel this it's too long. I feel like
• 50:26
  Speaker 4: there's a lot of things that it just Darren, I
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: kind of feel what you felt where I'm just kind
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: of like there's so many scenes where I just start
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: to glaze over, and I'm like, I am not as
• 50:38
  Speaker 4: in tune with conspiracy theories as John is. In the
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: history of it. I mean, I've seen the X Files.
• 50:45
  Speaker 4: I know what's going on, but there's.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: No man with red strings on a wall. I mean,
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: what's going on?
• 50:52
  Speaker 4: It was it was hard for me to really grab
• 50:56
  Speaker 4: hold of it and really latch on and to say
• 51:00
  Speaker 4: like yeah, yeah, no, no, no, keep going, keep going.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: This is this is good.
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: This is good.
• 51:05
  Speaker 4: Because it was with Donald Sutherland. I perked up and
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: I was like, wow, this that's amazing.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 51:10
  Speaker 4: And then when it was over, I was like, Okay,
• 51:12
  Speaker 4: we're back to normal. It almost felt like a different
• 51:14
  Speaker 4: movie to me during those sixteen minutes. And I as
• 51:20
  Speaker 4: I was watching Garrison's final speech in the courtroom, I
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: got so distracted because I was like, oh my gosh,
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: there's no way this is a real closing argument because
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: he like he would have gotten the gavel, you know,
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: fifteen times during this speech, because it's as like are
• 51:39
  Speaker 4: we are we prosecuting you know, the US government, or
• 51:43
  Speaker 4: are we prosecuting Shaw? You know, pick a lane, because
• 51:47
  Speaker 4: like so like of it. Ninety nine percent of his
• 51:50
  Speaker 4: speech had nothing to do with Shaw. And they barely
• 51:54
  Speaker 4: attempted to cover that up, as you know, like Stone
• 51:58
  Speaker 4: barely attempted to cover that up or m shade it.
• 52:01
  Speaker 4: And they laid it on really thick towards the end,
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: to the point where Garrett, like Kevin Costner even looked
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: at the at the at the camera and I was like,
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: I was like, hmm, do I like that?
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: Do I not?
• 52:17
  Speaker 4: I mean, they already beat you over the head with it.
• 52:20
  Speaker 4: Then I'm like, no, I like it.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: I like it.
• 52:22
  Speaker 4: I like it, and so I was.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: I was.
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: I was happy that that happened because I was like,
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: with fourth ball breaks, I can kind of go either way,
• 52:29
  Speaker 4: but I generally do like it. And I did like that.
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: But they really tested you with that, man. I like
• 52:38
  Speaker 4: the editing is so superb, the music is great, the cinematography,
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: I'm going to give it. I want to give it
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: three stars, but I'm going to give it three and
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: a half. And also I have the same answer as
• 52:50
  Speaker 4: John when it comes to Lance Reddick, you would freaking
• 52:53
  Speaker 4: kill it as x And if anyone who's ever watched
• 52:55
  Speaker 4: Fringe knows exactly why, that's such a.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: Good answer, very Fringe, very Fringe. Yeah. So some of
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: my final thoughts, Yeah, I mean I would probably give
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: this one a second viewing, Like, I think that might
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: help me absorb the beginning because there's so much thrown
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: at you and I want to have to feel like
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to learn it all at once because it's
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: just a lot. I mean, not that can't pause and Rewhine.
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: But but I also liked, you know, the portrayal of
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: Garrison and his like Posse. You know, it made me
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: think of like US Marshals or any kind of movie
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: that's like a newsroom. Like it's all that vibe of like,
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: you know, okay, who's getting what article? Who's going down here?
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: Like it was that vibe obviously their district attorneys, but
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: that jibed really well. I really liked that group, and
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: I liked that they were the core of a lot
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: of the story. And yeah, it's just the other thing
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: it kind of made me think of which I don't know,
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: oh from ninety one, but it gave me a vibe of,
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: you know, like in Jaws, was kind of the first
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: time that a lot of people heard the story of
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: the Indianapoulis. I feel like all the pictures and video
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: I've ever seen of the JFK assassination have not been
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: like that shot. So I kind of wonder was this
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: movie like the first time the large populace saw that
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: fully realized shot in the head of JFK. It might
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: have been. I don't have a ton of knowledge on this,
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: but maybe gen X saw a lot of that. I'm
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: not sure, but yeah, so I'm going to give this
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: movie three stars. It crawled its way up from two
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: as I was starting this conversation it, I mean, Donald
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: Sutherland's bit is just so gold and it does pick
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: up as it gets there. But I mean, I mentioned again,
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: I could jump in the midpoint of this movie and
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: feel like I didn't didn't need the first part, Like
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: it's definitely beneficial and it definitely is amazingly acted, But
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: I could I could handle a cliff Notes version of
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: this and be okay. But I'm going to make Lance Reddick.
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: I want to see him as Bill. I want to
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: see him as the turncoat, see him as the you know,
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: the one that you know Garrison has no doubt is
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: true to him, but it is not. So I think
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: that would be an interesting I mean, not that like
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: we've always said, you know, not that mini workers not
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: amazing in it, but I would have liked to would
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: have liked to seen that. So a three at three
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: point five and a five for a JFK. We we're
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: sticking with kind of a bit of a theme with
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: biopics and specific positions in the US government. So thanks
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: again for joining us here on House Lights. Next week,
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: we're going to be jumping to nineteen ninety five's Nixon
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: here on
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: House lights, join the revolution, Join the NED Party,