Latest / WOC and Allies: Business and Career Realtalk with Elaine Lou Cartas / 83: How Do You Know When To End Your Business And Get A Job Or Downsize with Monica Schrock

Transcript

83: How Do You Know When To End Your Business And Get A Job Or Downsize with Monica Schrock · WOC and Allies: Business and Career Realtalk with Elaine Lou Cartas

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Are you wanting to end your business and maybe simplify or downsize your business?
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: Feeling anxiety because for some reason your business is just not doing it for you anymore.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: I've been there.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I was talking to my bookkeeper and coach the past couple of months, and here's the reality nobody wants to share publicly.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: 2020 and 2021 were an anomaly, a bubble.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: Whether you were a coach, consultant, or service provider during this time, there was a huge surge for me.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: My own business doubled.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: I've been talking to more friends and colleagues transparently and vulnerably, where everyone is done with a I want to grow and scale my business at seven, eight, nine figures so fast.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: And people are considering ending their business, getting jobs.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: And hey, no shame and nothing wrong there.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: I've actually been there.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: This coaching business, my second business.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: I ended my first business in 2016 when I was a fundraising consultant for four years.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: And there was an opportunity to take my dream job working as a fundraiser as past the Dana City College Foundation.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: I had an incredible boss, a team, my own office, wonderful pay.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: See, my nervous system needed it.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: I was just done doing everything in my business: the lows, the highs, the inconsistent income.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: And there are probably people where you don't want to end your business.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you want to simplify, downsize your business, have your business on the side.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's okay.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm actually simplifying my own business.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: I've shared this vulnerably in the past episodes this past year, 2024, where I only want to work with 24 clients to ensure client results and experience.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: So whether you want to end your business, downsize it, have your business on the side, here's the reality we are human, we evolve.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: There is more to our identity than work.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: There's life, the world, and experiences to make memories with.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: So before we drop the beat, just a reminder: if you feel called to, please leave a rating interview.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: This would mean so much to not just me, but my team, because it would let fellow women of color and allies know about this wonderful accessible resource.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: All right, let's drop the beat.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, I'm Elaine Lucarthas.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a business and career coach for women of color and allies.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: Elaine Weekly awarded me the number one thought leader, and Apple News named me one of the top five business coaches.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: Done doing the most as a woman of color or ally, and you want to create your own definition of success and happiness.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, grab your coffee, tea, or boba, and let's do some business and career real talk.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: Legacy leaders, welcome to my childhood bedroom that I'm recording from right now.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so happy to be here.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, which basically means like it's not really my bedroom.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's basically storage room because Filipino immigrants.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's what it is.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: Or a workout room, right?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: No, this is not a workout room.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that happens a lot too.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh my old bedroom is now my parents' workout room.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that's pretty common as well.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: My parents have attachment issues, and they're like, you know, one day might maybe you're gonna live with us.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why there's still a bed.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's why it's still there.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why there's no guests that come and sleep in your room.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: They go sleep in the other rooms.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like, oh my god, don't give me that.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, how are you, Monica?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing, you know, I'm doing pretty well.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: There's some sunshine in the Pacific Northwest, so we welcome it.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's it makes us feel like new humans, you know.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there is that LA sunshine.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, we have PNW weather.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: You got some gloom right now?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we got some gloom.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: So thanks.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: I got my boba and the sunshine.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: My black tea boba.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, so on brand, coffee, tea, or boba.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, real talk.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but this is a real talk with a beverage.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: I have water.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: I have water too.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: Gotta hydrate.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: Are you into the Stanley Cup thing?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: I like one.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: I like the ones with the little like twisties.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Twisty nozzle.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love the thing that points out.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, like the straw, but not like the real straw, like the other stuff.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: I feel that.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: We are not sponsored by Hydro Flask, but if Hydro Flask is listening and you would like to sponsor this podcast, please reach out.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: I like this temper craft.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's the one I've always liked.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, and a lot of places use them.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: They're like branded water bottles.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: So tell my podcast editor to delete that because I'm trying to get a Hydro Flask sponsorship and you're killing it.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I didn't know.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: I am men that comment, Hydro Flask.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: Well, welcome to Real Talk.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: I have been having like, and I know you too, Monica, you're sharing.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like, hey, it's rough out there right now.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: It is rough out there right now.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: We see you.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: We see you.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: We hear you.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: We're with you.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: The economy, elections.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I'm really excited about the conversation we're having today.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because things, you know, in an ideal world, which this one is rarely ideal.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was like, when hasn't idealed?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think the 90s, actually.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: The 90s were ideal.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: We were kids.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when you're kids and don't have responsibilities, I guess, and you don't know how not ideal the world is.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know what's funny?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: I was having sense.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: I was having a conversation with Andres, my SEO guy.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like she he now has a newborn daughter.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, you know, when we were kids, we really wanted to be adults.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: And now that we're adults, like, why the hell are we not kids again?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's just I was telling my friend the other day, I had the opposite feeling when I was a kid.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: I was so scared to grow up.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: I was so scared.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: I guess I knew.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: You're smart.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Very intuitive child.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I don't know.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like this.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: This is gonna be bad.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think I saw my parents kind of having a hard time, and I was like, I don't know if I want to be like that.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: That looks hard.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it's interesting because I I was out for brunch with a friend, how LA with me, and we were like listening to these teenagers, teenage girls, and they were like talking about their world all the world problems of someone not liking them or how to deal with going to the next party.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just like, these problems are so huge.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's adorable.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: Do you got a mortgage problem?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: Good for you.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Good for you.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have a more yeah, exactly?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I like this conversation because we were talking about like in an ideal world, you just get to like run your own business for business owners, or you know, and then you get to make the income that you want, you get to run it exactly the way you want and the exact balance that you want it, and you know, which would be great.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: And there are times like this, and a lot of times, where that's gonna look different, or you're gonna be like, you know, I might have to get a job instead of doing this, or I might have to go part-time in my business and get a part-time job.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: There's might have to look differently because of my needs and because of what's going on in the economy.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm excited to have that conversation because people don't talk about it that much because it feels like a quote unquote failure when it's not.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: We're here to tell you that it's definitely not.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: No, and we have both been in that situation.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: Before I had my coaching business, I had a fundraising consulting gig.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: Mind you, it was more like contract work.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I had one client at a time.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: Made six figures in that, like easily with one client.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then there was an opportunity that presented itself to work full-time for this client who I adored working with.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I did.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, what?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: Pension?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, like legal benefits.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then also just the feeling like my central nervous system, you know?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: Of like how calming that was.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: And and it was a great work experience.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm talking about Patsy City College Foundation.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: I was a consultant, hired on full-time, dream job.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: But then I just got bored.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: And that's not a negative thing.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's always the same.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: Monica, do you ever feel like this?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, Yeah, don't you ever feel like this?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: We're like, why can't I just be boring?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, I I feel like that all the time.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: All the time.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just like, just do one thing, just just relax, just be happy with not having a ton on your plate.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: I am working on that.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm I'm working on it too.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I was vulnerably even sharing with Monica before we hit record of like, you know, I've said this several times in this podcast, how I only want to work with 24 clients and even seeing what expenses to cut, because it's not just the revenue, it's also having healthy profit margins.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: And just seeing what things to even simplify in my business and owning it.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think unfortunately, you know, I've been talking to more business owners.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: I was talking to one of my my coaches' mentors who's been in business for 20 years, and she was direct with me.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: She'd gone through the dot-com bubble, 1999 recession.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I hate to break it to a lot of you out there, but just a reminder 2020 and 2021 were a bubble.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: That was an anomaly.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: So people were doing well and not so much anymore, as we've seen.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: And now, yeah, yeah.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Now things are a little, I don't know, I would say they're less stable on both fronts, whether you work for a company or you have your own business, you know, there's a lot of layoffs going on.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Where in Portland, Nike's has it, are have they're having huge layoffs right now.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not so much, there's no right or wrong answer.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: Not there ever is, you know, but like my dad got laid off in the big like telecom layoff in like the early 2000s, and he did everything right.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like there's no right or wrong.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it really is about feeling it out for yourself, feeling out what makes the most sense.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: What income do you need based on your life?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you have kids, that's a different, that's a different answer than you know.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, life situation.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're basing your your decisions on like, you know, who's depending on you, what what you need.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even if like you were saying you're like a caretaker or something like that, it's just like mitigating risks at the end of the day.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes you have to do l more of that than other times, right?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like we're in a time where we're doing more of, we're trying to let like lessen the risk as much as possible.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, what does that what does that mean for you?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that could mean a lot of different things.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: And like, when does it mean maybe to step, take a step back from your business?
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Or okay, I'll have a client on the side, but I'd like to get something steady or I'd like to do a part-time job or a full-time job, and just like, like you said, have my nervous system relax for a second or just get steady so I can think, so I can like be clear.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that because I change the format of what I'm doing constantly.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I always have.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: And like even real talk.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: So Monica knows this, but I didn't say it when we were recording.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: The reason why I'm in my childhood bedroom is because my dad just had knee replacement surgery yesterday.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm here playing caregiver.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: I also want to share everybody out there, because the majority of you out there are women and tend to be the supporting role for our family members.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm here by choice.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I wasn't forced to be here, I'm here helping and supporting my dad.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: But then it's that, and then like even like personal goals that we could have.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: Where I was talking to a friend of mine right before we hit record, and she was working for a big four consulting firm.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: So kind of very entrepreneurial, but like just a lot of work.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: But life happened.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: Her dad had terminal cancer, about to die.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: She's pregnant, about to give birth.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: Her husband got laid off.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's a lot.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: And then she was just like, Hey, I don't know if I could make it here.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: And then they're like, Yeah, and they gave her like a scarlet letter of like, you're so close to being partner.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, This is just I was like, the goal's not.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: I I was coming to you for feedback, not on how it could be partner, but like I how it could balance this stuff.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: And she left.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: And she works for another consulting firm where there's more freedom and flexibility.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I was asking her, like, why don't you have your own business?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, because I actually have the freedom here.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: And because it'll take more brain power than just like being a consultant at a firm.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes you can't expel like expend that brain power.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'd love to hear from you because you were working full-time, a couple of like in your business, in your business, and then you realized I want to work for the NBA.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: I want to work for the Portland Blazers.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: What yeah, whatever you feel comfortable sharing, where were you at that time of your life that made you decide you wanted a full-time job while still having your business on the side?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: Because I was still a client of Monica's during this time too.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I still had a couple clients and then did a couple projects on the side.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I've done it a few times.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: I've gone in and out since I was 22 of having going full-time freelancer in my business and then having a full-time job and doing partly in my business, like a couple times, maybe three times.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, and it usually is that like maybe I'm a little burnt out on finding clients all the time.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Let me just get something a little bit.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: And or in some instances, it was like, oh, do I really want to do freelance all the time?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna be transparent with y'all.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: I've done it for a long time.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm 37 now.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been doing this for 15 years.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: 15 years I've had clients straight through, on and off being full-time in my business and having a job on the side.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: I always say having a job on the side.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's like fries, you know.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Even if I have one client, it's just a job on the side.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because honestly, it's not a job.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: When I have a full-time job, I have nearly zero intention of moving up.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it really is just a moment in time that I wanted to be to think about things less, was really what it is.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's me taking a break from having to think about things so much.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, and maybe for my nervous system, like I said.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: But the Portland Trailblazers could have been that job that I would have wanted to move up in that would have meant more than just like I have a job on the side because I have always wanted I always wanted to work in sports, so I wanted to see if I could do it.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Long story short, I got hired by the Blazers within like two months of deciding, which was amazing.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Whoop, whoop, whoop.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it took this job to really show me that I actually do not want to have a full-time job, like ever again if I can help it.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: What made you realize that?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: Why it wasn't a good fit for you?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what I want to hear.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we're we're not here to go one way or the other.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, our intention for this episode is like, let's take shame out and like figure out what you want.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about it first.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so go ahead.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: What made you realize it wasn't a good fit to work full-time for someone?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, even before I had had, I was an employee, if you don't remember, if you remember for a nonprofit I was working for, because they offered me a job and I had told them, like, hey, I actually just want to keep working on my own business.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not really interested in a full-time job.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: And they were fully remote.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: So they're like, What if we don't really care what you do as long as you do the work?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: But we'll pay you as an employee and you'll get the employee benefits.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, that sounds pretty good.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I did that for like three years.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like they were a client of mine, technically.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: But again, there's like a technicality, right?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: Is that I was getting paid a retainer, but it was really a paycheck.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then I got to like have the like balance of like paying some taxes, and then like, you know, it kind of so good.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: I will say when I was in that, like having a consulting gig or a client and also having a job, it actually helps so well.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: It does help a lot.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: If you can, if you can like balance it, if it makes sense, so good.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's a sweet spot, it's a sweet spot, and you get health insurance, you get all the things, you get vacation time.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, welcome to tax season, everyone.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: We were we were talking about this.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: Here we are before.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, why didn't why did I want to be an adult?
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: You were smart, Monica.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: You were smart.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: No, continue, continue, Monica.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I've always kind of like pieced it together depending on what it feels like I need in my life.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: I got into the trailblazers and like just the like the kind of like for me, it was like I I need a lot of autonomy over my schedule.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: You can make a lot more money freelance as you do in a job, like generally speaking.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: And and like I don't actually want to work this much.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to make a little bit more money.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I found out what's really important to me is like I have more time in my day.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like my brain, my bipolar brain, needs a little bit more time to relax.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: It needs less overworking, less stimulation, like all the time.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, it was a lot of like, what does my brain and my nervous system and my body need?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I learned a lot about that.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, a full-time job is not what I need.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's not what's gonna like, you know, nurture me as much as having my own business, as having clients.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Even if I, and this is the thing too, for me, there's no stepbacks.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: There's just, I'm just, I don't know, I'm jumping to the next like like, you know, lily pad.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's no step packs, it's like whatever.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: So even if I was like, oh, I'm gonna serve tables like twice a week and have my own business, that would make more sense for me personally than going to get like a job like that.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I think for me, that information at 37, I just really like solidified what I need in my like working life.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not a full-time job.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: But like I did all I did that when I thought like I needed it or I wanted it, and to like just leave after a year was like fine.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I don't, why do I need to prolong what I know is not for me?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: So in my case, I went the opposite direction because like I tried and it's not, it's just not for me.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like I like to piece things together and that's how I'm gonna do it because it makes me feel more in control of my life in a good way, I think.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Not in a like I'm a controlling person way, in a way where I can really make my own schedule and be like, oh, if I'm having an episode or I'm feeling really burnt out, I can just rearrange my schedule.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: I can figure it out on my own.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't have to answer to a corporation that doesn't like any corporation, like they don't really give that like work-life balance.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: They don't really give that, like, you know, and I don't even have kids.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm just talking about my brain.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: If you know what I mean.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like my dependent is my brain.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just like it was really figuring out what was right for me.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, cool, there's no shame on if I'm getting a full-time job, if I got my dream job and I left it after a year because it wasn't for me.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think I could have felt a lot of shame around that, but because of where I'm at in my life and being so confident in what I need, I was like, I'm not.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: And every time I explained this to someone, they were like, Oh, yeah, that makes sense.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really proud of you for being able to choose yourself over what you thought was like the thing you wanted to do.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: Choose yourself over what you thought.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because it was hard to make that decision.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was, it wasn't easy.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think about I had the opposite of you.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: I I really loved my job.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: I loved my boss, I loved my team.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: I hit a great salary.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: It was just the moment I graduated from my master's when I realized, like, oh, I want to do my own thing.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, there was just another calling.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: The hardest part for me was telling my boss who was like grooming me and mentoring me, and like, I don't think I see myself as a fundraiser.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: That was the hardest conversation to have with her.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: And she welcomed it with open arms.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I had dinner with her a couple of weeks ago.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: We are really good friends.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: And but I think about that experience, and I would love for you to even share it now that we're back doing our own thing full-time.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't even say back, but just yeah, doing what's good for us at this present moment.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I think back of how that job actually has helped me.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: That experience has helped me be relatable and tell clients, like, hey, sure, it might not, I might have a business, but I was able to get my dream job, and this is how I did it.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: This is how I worked with my team, being the youngest manager, like a few women of color.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to hear from you how that credibility of I was gonna say, yeah, how that helps you with your own business.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Getting hired by an NBA team to do marketing is definitely a flex and like it has helped me already.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, come on, it has helped me already, and it will continue to help me.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I learned so much while I was there and like I was happy with my work there, they were happy with my work there.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was just that the style of like work and and the commitment was like not for me.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's just like a great experience overall.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: And now it's like, oh, like I knew my shit before, but it's just like you said, it's the credibility of like I got hired by an NBA team to do a marketing job that are very coveted in that industry.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just kind of a yeah, it's like, I mean, not just a flex, it's just like a testament to like that.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: I know what I'm doing and I'm really good at it.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the credibility I think about it's like I raised a million dollars in six months for 200 scholarships.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I mean, not really a flex as before he was crazy, but one of my donors was Elon Musk.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, with SpaceX.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like the heir of LA Times, the founders of Trader Joe's, those are my donors.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: That that was the type of wealth, not the Kardashian new money wealth, like old money wealth.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: But that experience has helped me build my business.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: I would also love to talk about shame.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we've we briefly talked about it, so let's like go into it for sure.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because there's this feeling of shame, like uh, if I downsize or if I end my business, that means I'm a what it says about me.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: The failure thing, yeah.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: How did you overcome that when you were transitioning into going to NBA?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: But also, Monica, like you're different in a way where like you don't give a fuck what other people are gonna say or think about you.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: And even though you're marketing and messaging expert, like you were able to market and message.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I can position anything.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Let me tell you, positioning is my favorite thing to do.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like I I love reworking my resume.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: You're hilarious.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I hope all I can accept what I'm trying to say.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I know this tongue just know I know.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: I love reworking a resume.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: I love being able to like, I love helping people do that.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yeah, no, your experience in anything can work towards an experience.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Transferable skills are transferable.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: But you're right, I don't care.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: I will do what I want to do.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: But I think what what kind of removed a lot of shame for me in any of this is that I started freelance marketing out of necessity because I was living in LA and I was 22 years old and nothing was enough to live there.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: Our generation graduated around the recession.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: I just thought everybody now.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: I graduated in 2008.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: This is not my first recession.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like I had to, like, I had to survive.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, my business not a quote, but I'm kind of quoting it in the beginning, my business.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Was that I was getting paid.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, people were just paying me like invoicing.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was figuring out all of it.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was trying to figure it out.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just like, this is something I have to do to make sure that I can live here.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: So in a sense, I wasn't even looking at myself as a business.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was just looking at like I'm making this work, like I'm piecing it together.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I was freelancing.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: I was, you know, an agency hired me in LA as like a freelance marketer.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was doing my thing.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: I just didn't think about it that way, you know?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I think like now online businesses freelancing is much more of a like an industry, like a, you know, the gig economy is like much more of a thing now than it was then.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I think for me, it's like there's not a lot of shame because I've been in and out of it all my career.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was never something that I was like was a failure or a success.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was a necessity when I needed it.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I needed it for years at a time because that's like what it was.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then eventually it became the core.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: It became like jobs were a necessity when I needed them to be or whatever, not the other way around.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: What I'm hearing from Monica and me, we are both players when it comes to this being called.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we are players of the game.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, okay, I need to make money.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: What am I gonna do?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: All right, you're paying for this?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: Cool.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'll do that.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'll do that for a little bit, you know.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'll do, and I do not care how long I stay somewhere.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: I will tell you that right now.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, don't care, and at the same time, it's like, but if it's gonna affect our mental well-being, then that's where things need to change.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's what the great time, the great part about having a business is I think it's like a regardless of what capacity you're in with it, like if it's 25% of your income or 100 or 7% or 50%, it is always the option.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like if something is not working, like it's your option to be like, I'm getting out of this and I can make money on my own, and then I'll figure out my next move.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's to keep doing this, or maybe that's something else.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: I've always liked it to be like a safe, it's a safety net.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people don't see that this as a safety net, but for me, I do see it as a safety net.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: I know how to find money and I don't have to wait around to get a job to find money.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: And to for me, that's a safety net.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's keeps me safe from not having income, you know?
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I also want to share the other side of it, just in case there are people listening, like, actually, I I think I might be in the state where Monica was when they went to the NBA or Elaine when they wanted to when she wanted to work for city college.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just being over it, but at least for the time being.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I like I said, I had the opposite experience of like I had my dream job, and I just want to share the importance of asking the right questions from a future employer or your boss that you are directly going to be working with.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and you could even be vulnerable and direct, like, hey, I have two little kids, or my dad is undergoing some surgery and I need to be caregiver.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: Is that that flexibility that I could be there or not?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, will I be able to work from home?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like asking those questions.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely, yeah, and getting what you need right now.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was saying, like, I think for me, the shame has never been really a thing.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: The only shame I ever felt was like slightly from working for the NBA because it was something I was so excited for, and I was like, oh wow.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I know that it wasn't because I couldn't like stick it out, it's because I didn't want to.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: But still, I felt it's like one of those things where you're just like, are for a minute, you think, like, oh, are people gonna think that I just like couldn't cut it?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: But that that that like thought for me was pretty fleeting.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like something that goes through your head.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: But most of the time, I'm like, I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do, whatever makes the most sense for me, and I'm gonna figure out.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like being bipolar helps with that because in like moments of mania, you just kind of make some rash decisions.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes in my life, those rash decisions were the right decisions, but I just had like blind confidence because that's just like what it was, you know.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: It was kind of my yeah, my mental illness kind of helping me through that, you know, which I'm grateful for.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: These are the grateful things I'm I'm grateful for my my mental state sometimes because it got me through those moments where I didn't overthink things.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: And now I can flex that muscle being more like present and stable in it, you know.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think about when I was working in polo campaigns and people that got out of it, like working straight for the government for that pension and stable job or yeah, doing something else.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: I remember being in it and people left before I did, like, oh, they couldn't survive.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: It was like a badge of honor.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: And then what gave me the reality of things, I was like, wait, I see these people.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: They're like in their mid-30s.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: Shit, I'm in my mid-30s now.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: They look like they're in their 50s, they're like balding, they're like overweight, like they're barely seeing their husband, wife, partner, kids.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, they're not able to take care of themselves, yeah.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm like, I don't want, I don't want that.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: I sure there it's sexy to be in the front page of LA Times, be featured in all this stuff, but like that just is not appealing to me.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what made me get out.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a common theme I want everyone to hear, it's like, what what stage are you in life?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I get it.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: There's things out of our control that's happening.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: What stage are you in?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: What do you need emotionally, mentally, socially, physically for yourself?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: And what's the the new flex is like choosing you over the like perception of what you're doing, right?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: I've never ever told anyone like, hey, I like they're like, oh, why did you leave or why did you do?
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, well, honestly, like I just like the way that I work, it didn't, you know, it didn't really link up to the way that the company worked.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I really wanted more of my time back.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: I really wanted to be able to not have to check my like email after like working hours.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to do this and I wasn't gonna do it.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I left, you know?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: And people have never been like, oh my gosh, like, aren't you afraid of or how could you?
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: They've always been like, wow, that's really cool that you get to like choose your that you can choose yourself.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Or that's cool that you like have those types of boundaries and can enforce them.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no one's ever, if I'm honest with them, no one's ever been like, are you serious?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're ruining your life.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no, I'm not.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if anything, I'm making it better.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of the times we can do that.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of the people think they're gonna be shamed for it, but I feel like we're not going to be shamed for it.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: And even if you are, I think it is you know, strengthening that muscle of being like, cool, that's okay that you think that.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: I know you're afraid of that.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that's probably why you're like saying that to me, because you're afraid for me, but I'm actually not afraid.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it's okay.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I thank you for caring about me, but I'm actually not afraid of that.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it's all good, you know.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it is about you're not always gonna be super sure in a decision you make.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: We're never gonna be 100% about a decision we make.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's impossible.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: We're not, we're not, we can't see the future, you know.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's just it's not.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I think if you are doing it for reasons that you feel really confident in, then like do it, you know, people will understand.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: Legacy leader.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: I know what you're thinking.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: Elaine, you have such good stuff here.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: I want more.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: So if you want more tips and advice for your business career in life, sign up for my gifts and gifts newsletter at ElaineLou.com forward slash join.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's J O I N.
• 28:56
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• 29:00
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• 29:01
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• 29:03
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• 29:07
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• 29:09
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• 29:12
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• 29:19
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• 29:24
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• 29:28
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• 29:39
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• 29:41
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• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's J-O-I-N.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: All right, let's get back to the episode.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, what advice or tips would you give to someone that's kind of like in this?
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: I don't I don't know what a lot of people are.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: Do I shift from my business a little?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, maybe you're like, let's just say it.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like maybe your revenue is like way lower than it usually is.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe getting people to commit to contracts is really hard.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's like the pressure to get people results is just like a little too much than you want it to be.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let's just let's just say it.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's little, maybe it's those things.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe you're tired and you don't want to look for new clients.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you're just like you want someone to give you a fucking weekly work plan and you just want to be able to do it because you want a break for your brain.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: Or let's talk about personal stuff.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you have a parent or a loved one that has a terminally ill thing that's going on.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you are planning for kids, maybe you are wanting to save money for a home, maybe just personal life is happening.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: Gosh.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you want to spend more time with the kids you have.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, dude.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: Why why did why we should why was I showing to be an adult?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: By the way, I have to apologize ahead of time.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: We're we were not here to trigger you listening to this.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, no, no.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: No, we're just trying to be real talk.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's we I mean, I'm sure no one listening here could not relate to any of those.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm sure you could relate to something we just said because it's so common.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think that's why I wanted to say it.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's really common to be experiencing a lot of that stuff.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why do you even say it?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: And why do you think people are so tired of social media?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's like we see the fancy shit, but it's like, what about the behind the scenes?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what is really happening?
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: And what's really not saying people should share the negative stuff.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: I am not saying that.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: At the same time, yeah.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, well, at the same time, I've seen the problem of people sharing like really personal stuff and then using it to sell.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's just another conversation.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: That is I digress.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: I digress.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: It but it's also like, I just want to say too, that because those things are happening, it is not a reflection of your skill set right now.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a hard thing too.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: Is people don't want to share that stuff because it maybe seems like that's a reflection on how well they do their job or area of like focus or skill skill set or you know, and that's not it's not a reflection.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it's hard out here.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I think when you're in that position, it's like when, you know, we can't tell you when or or like when to to make that decision or when to start thinking about it.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I think we can tell you that there's nothing wrong with choosing another direction direction, or being like, I want to get a job for the next two years because this is happening, or I want to save for this, or I want I'm tired and I just want to like be able to like relax for a second, or like, hey, it'd be really cool if I had a part-time job.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I only need to make this much money in my business because that's what's that's what's doable right now.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's like take a deep breath, like think about those decisions that will make your life easier and know that any form of like what your business is, even if you close it, is not a failure at all.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can pick anything back up, you can decide when things need to shift, things need to change.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like this world, if anything, is like variables are just like flying at us all the time.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why would we think that our that the way we make money wouldn't need to change if we're just like trying to like dodge variables constantly, you know?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like I just announced my second LinkedIn learning course that came out.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: And a big part of why I got it, it's not just the success I've had in my career or business, but it's because I've been fired three times.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: I quit two jobs without saying I've been in debt.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like I've been in all the quote unquote failures and mistakes.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: And the success story is actually me choosing me.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that is the success story.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I will share, like, if there's one takeaway I want our listeners to get is what helped me in every transition point of my life, whether personal or professionally, was actually being vulnerable with the people that I felt most safest with.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm not saying like go blast it to the world that you're going through something, but kind of think of it like when we were younger and we had a crush on someone or we were going through a breakup and we talked to that friend.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's like that, you know, like who do you trust to share?
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you saw someone going through a similar situation and they were able to overcome it.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, the unfortunate thing with I mean, with a pandemic making us more in silo with living in a digital world, we're doing this record this podcast interview on Zoom, is that we are so alone, but we forget we could heal by just having a conversation.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like Monica has the benefit of living with with their best friend, yeah, and a fellow business owner and like knowing other like business owners here, and we're very, like, very transparent about what's going on.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's really important.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: Once that trust is like created, it's like we can talk about like I have a friend who has a business and they're like, Oh, I had back taxes, now I've paid those off, and I can think about XYZ.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: And these are like things that have like typically have a lot of shame around them, but they don't need to.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: So many businesses have back taxes.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: So many people are trying to figure that out.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not shameful to not know what you don't know, or to not even be able to do the things that you know you need to do, but you actually just can't do them right now.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: These are all very common things.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: And if you know that we all have resources also that other people don't have, like as far as like how to do things.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've made like moves and how to like consolidate debt and be able to do what and what, and like I've learned some of that stuff just on my own, and like I'll share that information whenever I can because people don't know that those resources exist, you know?
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really about talking, it's just like mental health too.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think money in business is like a big thing, like it's there's stigma around it just as much as mental health, where it's like I just try to talk about that, talk about bipolar disorder as much as I can because so people can we can normalize it, or at least what where I am in the world, I can try and normalize it like a little bit more.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like even talking about debt.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: I was in debt.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: I took out like a loan to pay for it because the interest rates were so high.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, oh, yeah when we have these conversations, we could actually not just help ourselves out, but with other people as well.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I would love to talk about what we're both even doing in our businesses.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like we're sharing we remember, I think the last like friend conversation.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: I have to say friend conversation because not business conversation.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, my wait Monica, we need the friend hat right now of like what we're investing in or doing given what's happening.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: So yes, yeah.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: I would love for you to share and I'll share as well.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: But go ahead.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: And why you're making those shifts and change, because the reality is is the economy is changing, consumer behavior is changing, people are being more smarter, taking their time to make a purchasing decision.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: And that's not bad.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: I actually encourage that.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's great.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad people are taking their time.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: But there was just a bubble in 2020, 2021 where people are just investing whatever contractor or coach and being burned by that experience.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: It and I think like because of that, having some foresight is really helpful or just leaning into that, like, oh, what are things going to look like in the next few months or the next few years?
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think is really important to think ahead.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: But also like thinking, okay.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, like you were saying, let's let's give an example of people were hiring coaches and contractors like like wild because they had the money to, maybe they got burned.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: So if we even start there, if we're starting with people got burned, then if I'm and there was PP loans, by the way, if you remember those loans.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: There was money that were get forgiven.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: So there was money being there was money being given.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: Dealt.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: So if those people had bad experiences, let's say with a coach in your case, or like a marketing consultant or strategist or service provider in my case, we need to think about how are we going to like give our like give them more credibility in us, more trust in us.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like how do we actually build our skills and make sure we collect information from old clients that we're like, no, we're like credible, we're dependable, we get results.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: I don't promise results, but you know, in the sense of like we get the results, we we set up the things we said we were gonna do, and we will get you whatever we can get you.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, especially like laughing.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, so that you know that we're actually good at the shit we do.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: Because let's be real, let's be real and honest right now.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I know you're a marketer, I'm a pretty good marketer in my own business too.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: There were just a lot of people that knew how to market well.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: But the service they provided.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: So marketing cannot fix a crap product.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the thing is like marketing cannot fix a crap mop.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: A crap product is we're not gonna be able to fix that.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: So we have to make sure we have a really good product.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: Cause even if our, I mean, we're good at marketing, so our marketing's gonna be good.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: But I am recording this in my childhood bedroom with shit all over my room.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I'm so good at it.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: So we're thinking about, I love like this line of questioning, because we were both talking about the other day.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what are we doing to boost our credibility, our business?
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: For me, boosting skills, but also looking at like the the path I want to go down within the marketing industry.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, like me observing and having a little more time to observe because it's a little slower right now to get clients and stuff, right?
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: But these moments I try to capitalize on so I can use this time to actually think about what's happening in my industry and how I can like, you know, do as much as I can to keep to get more clients.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, AI is like, you know, it's a it's a question mark at this point, honestly.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like we don't really know because, like, you know, we're looking at different things that it does in the content world.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: Some things it does pretty well, sometimes some things it's pretty shit at still.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: Will it get better?
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: But probably.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: But like my my thing is like, okay, so quantitative stuff is a little is a little harder to sell right now because it's like writing, copywriting is a little harder to sell right now.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not even selling it.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: Although I get tagged in things, I might have gotten a client from someone on LinkedIn tagging me that knows I do copywriting and I can copyright websites.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: Don't usually do it.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: We'll do it in this instance because the economy.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: But in general, like a nonprofit like them, they don't want to use AI to write their website.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: So that's like a different situation, right?
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: But in general, like I think the content creation, the writing, like AI is gonna start taking up a little bit more of that market because it's easier for people to input that.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: So in my head, I'm like, cool, let me let me lean into the like the marketing tech side of things.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I want to get a digital science certification from U of O that I was like, cool, this is like a good price.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'll get us a Google Analytics 4 certification, a Google AdWord certification, and a HubSpot HubSpot email marketing certification.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: These are all three things that are gonna like boost my credibility, my skill set, my, I don't like to say authority, but in a sense, like I've done these, I've like done this this work, I've been certified in these things, and I can help you in these things.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, you know, looking at like, okay, cool, I want to lean into CRMs like convert kit, like Salesforce, like green rope, like, you know, marketing system, email marketing systems like MailChimp, like Flowdesk, where I can help people with the technical side of things, specifically the technical side of things that make them money, where I can actually track conversions and I can tell people I'm making them money.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I think for me, I'm like my foresight is like, let me get into a part of this industry where I can really prove the ROI of hiring me.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: In content, it's a little harder to do that.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, and it and but people will still need it.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I think for me, in the sense of I want to work smarter, not harder, I want to go that direction.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't have to work as hard to prove why hiring me is a good decision.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: It was just so interesting when you and I had this conversation last week about it.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we were thinking the same thing.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, okay, I'm glad we are kind of in that vibe and we're psychics.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, you know, for me as a coach, coaching is a new industry, relatively.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of like therapy, therapy was new, and then it became institutionalized as it should be because you're dealing with people's like mental health and trauma.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_02: And coaching is a little barrier of entry.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'll be the first say it.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_02: You could call yourself a coach without being certified, and there's a lot of certifications out there where you don't even know what you don't know if like what credibility they have.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what credibility it has.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: And like who regulates it?
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's no regulation.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: Correct, correct.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: But there is a governing board called the International Coaching Federation.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I've been working with more executives, more business owners that have team members, and I have been enjoying it.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: And one of them is like, you can listen to the podcast episode, but Starbucks VP of DEI.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I have been absolutely enjoying that work.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: I also acknowledge that because low bar of entry, because people have been burned by coaches and didn't get the service they want, I want to be a better coach and to be like you were saying, any of that authority.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm getting, I'm gonna be applying for my PCC, which is a high-level certification for ICF, and I'm working with a Center for Executive Coaching.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: Very good.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: Where I'll be transparent, the founder of it, Harvard grad, worked for a big for management consulting firm, but the students there I'm like connecting with and also wanting to get more contracts with organizations and companies to help them with like the C-suite level coaching as well as team management.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that that is not a low bar of entry.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_02: That takes credibility and education to get there and to be a better coach.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: And and also leaning back to my strengths, I'll be honest, I got caught up.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I think I need to be like these other online gurus.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, wait, yeah, back to basics.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: What am I really good at?
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a former fundraiser.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I need to just network and connect.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: And same.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I just want to say, too, when I was talking about that certification at University of Oregon, it cost$2,250.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, which isn't nothing.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: But like if you think about education in general, if you're gonna go get an MBA or something, that's gonna cost you a hundred grand.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like this little, you know, over$2,000 that I can pay in three payments of$800 or whatever is gonna get me three certifications that are really like well known and like well respected.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it really is also about like looking at those things that will give you an edge that don't necessarily need to cost you that don't have a high barrier of entry, you know, because it is hard to spend a bunch of money on cred on like credentials or like certifications.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: And as for a payment plan, like so mine is not TK.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: Transparency minus which is actually not bad.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: I have spent money like 30K on masterminds before.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_02: This is 10.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: But the education I'm receiving has been so great.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: The people I'm connecting with is great.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: And also lean into that work and lean into even hearing what they're saying.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like even learning about like internal versus external coaching.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: Internal coaches work for companies.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: And because coaching is unregulated, I'm I'm like for saying this, like it is gonna have to be.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: I say that because I have also been on the other end where I was a client and I was being coached through a trauma with not a licensed person, and it caused a trigger.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, mind you, I am not that type of coach.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: And when my clients come to me and start talking about it, I'm in Monica, you've seen it where I'm like, actually, I would be the best person to support you.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely look into a licensed therapist who would be better off.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's so true.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's like the skill sets of us being trauma informed space holding certified.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: Has been a game changer for both of us.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: Game gender.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: For holding space.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're always holding space for people, regardless if you have a job or if you have a business.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a manager at a job.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a managing emotions, yeah.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a human, raise your hand.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: We're always managing human emotions and and yeah, and things like that.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's like, you know, being adaptable is huge.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like the, you know, the jobs and the expectations of just being in a job for so long and getting paid so much money and companies being loyal to you.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think millennials, we've known for a while that that's not actually like what things are.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I think in that sense, like, let's be exactly what they think we are, which is selfish people that just do everything for ourselves.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm totally fine with that.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: I love that that label that boomers like to give us.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_02: Giving us that label, one, but two, like, you're just saying that because you're resentful.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, 100%.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then if you think we're bad, hello, Gen Z.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah like, and I'm not saying Gen Z is bad, like I I love what they're doing, but also Gen Z, you are welcome.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's because you saw all the mistakes we've made.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: But happy for them.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: No, yeah, just think about what you want and need.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: And just I I think just like don't think about what other people think, just take the steps to what's enough?
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, there's nothing wrong with enough.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why does it have to be more?
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if you're a mother, do you do you really want more kids?
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want a dozen kids?
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't think that makes you less for being a mother.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't want more, if you want just one child, or if you don't want any kids, like and if you're a business owner that only needs to make$4,000 a month to like live, I don't know where you live, but maybe you don't live on the West Coast, but but maybe you live somewhere where that's like you don't have to make more than that.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to, you can like, like we said, work a job and make$2,000 on the side with your with clients and be like perfectly happy with that, you know?
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like these numbers are arbitrary.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's what people have decided is successful, does not make sense.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like someone's, you know, 10k a month a month might just need to, you were like, oh, but 5k would be a life changer for me.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: Great, whatever.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like you don't need to fill your life with more money-making activities if you don't have to.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like do what makes sense for you as much as possible.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and doing what you love doesn't even have to translate into money.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I was talking to a client earlier today who did this beautiful painting of a cat.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_02: Went to a writing meetup workshop where she didn't talk to anyone and she just wrote.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_02: And she's not trying to make money out of it.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: She's just there for pure joy.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately, in a capitalistic world, we think like what brings us joy, we have to get paid for it.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like a turn into cash hobby or experience.
• 47:34
  unknown: Yeah.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_02: Monica, any last minute takeaways?
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_02: Are you finding it?
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_02: Last minute takeaways.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: Ugh.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: I guess I could just reiterate just like there's no shame in just like choosing yourself and your loved ones over a business or a job.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: Find out the equation that makes the more sense for you and just build, build on that.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: And be okay if the equation has changed from five years or a year ago.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: Just know that equation of happiness and success is going to evolve.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're listening, you're like, oh my gosh, this episode.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_02: And it spoke to me.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: I know if it's spoke to you and you want to work with both of us, well, schedule a call with me at ElaineLew.com forward slash call.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_02: Monica, you could share how when people work with uh with us one-to-one or mastermind that container because you hold office hours every week.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I hold office hours every month.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's really fun.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: We talk about anything marketing and kind of like, you know, how we're doing in our businesses mentally, because that's a big part of it.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: Marketing's a very big mental drain.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: I can definitely be one to say.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it's fun because you get one-on-one with Elaine monthly, monthly, and then office hours with me monthly, and a whole community of people to be in a retreat with twice a year.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like a really supportive situation.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: So really supportive and really like growth driven, but also like respectful of what you want and your time and energy.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: So highly recommend.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: And you've been in that experience where I've coached you in different transitions.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_02: So can you share what you've loved about my coaching?
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I've probably said this like 10 million times.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you pay attention to like what I'm actually wanting.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're not pushing an agenda of like you're worried about if we need to go another direction.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, oh my gosh, we spent, you know, someone might be like, we spent so much time on this direction, you're not going to get as many, as much results.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, the result is doing what something that I like to do.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: So you've always been so like supportive of like, okay, if you want to do this now, let's take XYZ step, you know, and really like respecting who I want to be in my business and when I push back, just being like, Oh yeah, that's cool, but also challenging me to get out of my box if needed.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's a really reciprocal like relationship and very respectful of what you want, but also still like, hey, you hired me to like kind of like challenge you and push you a little bit, and that's needed.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a good balance.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_02: And and just to like prop up Monica, you know, you don't you need you don't need to have me to have Monica, you have Monica to ourselves.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: If you haven't gotten the theme of this podcast, we are players, so you could have a triad relationship, yeah, like, or you could just be directly with Monica directly with me.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's okay.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_02: We are open, you know.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_02: Either way, yeah.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: Either way, you can find me at MonicaShrock.com.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll put that in the show notes.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_02: But with, I mean, I've hired Monica where I'm Monica's client, and I have talking about the realist and being honest, like I was we were talking about the subject heading for my learning course, and I I told Monica, I'm like, well, the other one only had 49% open rate.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_02: Dude, that was so good.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Don't be annoying right now.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Monica was like, Don't be annoying.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I'm just being Asian right now, okay?
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_02: High expectations.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: High expectations for for everyone listening.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: 49% open rate for an email is wild.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's 30% higher than the norm.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, normal open rates 20%.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_02: 18 to 20%.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like I've had a taste of 59%.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, can't go back.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love it.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_02: But but even like listening, the compliments I get whenever we do a podcast episode is our banter.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so another takeaway for people listening if you are going through a tough time, talk to someone that you have a relationship like, like with both of us.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: Just guess.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm not saying you have to work with us.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that would be cool.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_02: But like, like literally find a friend or family member.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: That would be really cool.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: But if you want, that'd be cool.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: No big deal.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: Find someone.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: I know some people don't always understand having a business, but I'm sure you can find like someone, hopefully, that you can like have a conversation with.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_02: And also, I think what what scares us is when we know someone we feel safe enough to share.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_02: And they may not have a similar experience.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: Be direct with them.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, hey, I'm going through a tough time.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_02: I am not looking for a solution.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: Can you just hold space?
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_02: Saying that.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think so often in this capitalistic society, it's like solve, right?
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_02: So, like a friend tells you a problem you think you solve, like straight up just you want to be helpful.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's fair.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's fair.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_02: You love hold space.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_02: But also, Monica and I are trauma-informed.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_02: So this is why we're very mindful of.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: Are you open to feedback?
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_02: Are you open to feedback?
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want me to listen or do you want me to give advice?
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I noticed that you're you're frustrated in venting.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_02: Is what do you need at this present moment?
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_02: Do you need space?
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_02: Do you need feedback?
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: What do you want out of this?
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: Let me ask you a question.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: My favorite thing is putting the question, what should I do?
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I don't know.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: What do you want out of this situation?
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'll tell you what you should do.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_02: No, but that's like a coaching question.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, okay, what is your end result?
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what's your end result?
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because I can't tell you what to do unless I know what you want to do.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's your end result.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, what do you want to do about it?
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_02: Should I?
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then when I hear the should, oh, it sounds like you're shooting all over yourself.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_02: What do you want to do as a first step instead of a should?
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes people don't want what they thought they wanted out of it.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh, cool.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: You don't really need to do anything then.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_01: You can just there's another problem that's and it's not that problem.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like I had a client where it was like, I want a raise, got the raise.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_02: Shit.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_02: I hate this job in this industry.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: I know when I was leaving a job, someone was like, if they gave you like a 20K raise, would you stay?
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, no.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was like, it's not the money.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: They couldn't, there wasn't an amount of money they could have given me.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's when you know.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's when you know.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's when you mean there is even like I mean, I'm gonna go personal, but I was dating someone and you know he tried wanting to get me back.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, he was like, why?
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, because I hate the person I am when I'm with you.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: You say that about a job too.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_02: Anyways, yes.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: This is a great conversation.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this was so great.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_02: And like, you know what?
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_02: If you let's say you don't have anyone to talk to, if you really enjoyed this episode, like I don't know, I can't say I can't speak for Monica, but for me, you can speak for me.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_02: Feel free to like DM us on Instagram or LinkedIn.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_02: And if it's something like, you know, if it goes into therapy or you need help with that, like we will tell you.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then if you are going over our boundaries, if you haven't noticed, we'll be direct and let you know.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm open for it for sure.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for being real, Monica.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you for having me.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_02: We're human, we age, it's part of life.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_02: Different life situations happen, and it's okay if our own definition of success and happiness changes.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_02: Just because you want to change something in your career, it doesn't mean you failed.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_02: It means you are successful enough to honor yourself to create a new definition of success and happiness.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_02: So if you found this episode helpful, here are four things you can do if you feel called to do them.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_02: Number one, it would mean so much to me and my team if you could leave a five-star rating and review.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_02: See, we created this podcast for accessible education for women of color and allies.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_02: Each episode takes about four hours to create.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_02: It takes me one hour to prep and then another 30 minutes to one hour to record.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_02: Then my team spends another two hours to edit and market.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_02: Number two, because we care about accessible education, share this with a friend who is probably going through a hard time in their business and they feel like they are alone and no one else is going through it.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe they need to really hear this.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_02: Number three, don't forget to hit that follow button.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_02: When you do, it lets the interwebs know how important this podcast, business and career real talk, is to women of color and allies like you.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_02: And number four, if you would like to recreate and realign your career or business by your own definition.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_02: And you want to work with real people like me and Monica, then schedule an introductory legacy, business, and career review call.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_02: I only work with 24 clients at one time to ensure client results and experience.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_02: So you can schedule this complimentary legacy, business and career review call at ElaineLew.com forward slash call.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's E L A I N E L O U.com forward slash call.