Latest / The Dr Louise Newson Podcast / 42 - Exposing the failures faced by perimenopausal women

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42 - Exposing the failures faced by perimenopausal women · The Dr Louise Newson Podcast

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This week's podcast is a great listen.
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I've got 2 Jane Monks from the US on my podcast, Sidali and Anu
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Booty. They're talking about the
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balanced docu series that they've just created.
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It's taken 2 years to be produced directed and it's the
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most amazing series that you'll watch.
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It focuses on perimenopause and it focuses on the injustice of
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women who aren't being listened to, aren't being believed,
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aren't being adequately treated. And it takes us on their
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personal stories as well about their own perimenopause and what
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they do to improve their symptoms and their future
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health. So last time I saw you both was
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in real life. I had this whistle top like
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visit over to the US. We were in New York hailing
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hoovers, running around. And then I came to the Ash Room
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and had the most beautiful, calm, relaxing time there, still
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thinking about the mantras and what I learned.
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And it was amazing. And now you're on a screen and
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hopefully coming to see you in a few months, couple of months
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time now. So I've have so much respect for
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the two of you as individuals, of your commitments, what you're
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doing. Honestly, when I have really
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difficult times, I just think about you too, because you're so
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calm and you're so peaceful and what you represent for others is
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just really powerful. So I want you to just explain a
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bit who you are and like even how you've come together because
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it's, it's unusual, you know, to have one female Jane monk.
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But there are two female Jane monks in front of me from the
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US. So people might be wondering
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like, where's this conversation going?
1:52
And I want a bit of intrigue. That's fine.
1:55
So can you just explain the two of you But about your?
1:58
Back and why are we making movies about perimenopause and
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metapause? Yeah, but we'll come to that as
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well. Like the How did that happen?
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So we're Jane Monks. My name is Sadvi Siddali Sri.
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And I'm Sadvi Annabouti and. So Jainism focuses on non
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violence and that was the draw for me.
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Non violence. We, we think that, oh, you know,
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I'm, I'm a good person and that's how we typically think.
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But are we looking at, are we violent in our thoughts?
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Are we violent in our actions? Are we violent in our speech?
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Are we violent in our intentions?
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And so when we talk about spiritual development, it's such
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an important step to include in our lives because how are you
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going to lead a pure positive life if you're not practicing
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nonviolence? And so part of nonviolence as
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well is helping others in like, reducing suffering, practicing
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compassion. And so through nonviolence,
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it's, you know, coming into writing books, making movies,
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making documentaries, so we can help alleviate that that
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suffering. And we as monks, you know, we
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are not traditional monks. We're very kind of outside the
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box, progressive, modern, you can say monks.
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And we try to find ways that are completely, you know, non
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conventional to to reach people, to help people.
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And one of the ways that we have found that's been very effective
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has been through the power filmmaking and storytelling.
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And so we have two documentaries on human trafficking or
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specifically sex trafficking, 1 documentary on animal cruelty.
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And now we've decided to really focus on perimenopause and, and
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why you know why it's, it started with our own journey
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going through perimenopause. But once we started learning
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more about it, it, the, the, the topic and the problems around it
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got so big that we were like, OK, we need to educate women,
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but we also need to highlight all the problems around this
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topic. And we need to really highlight,
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you know, all of these things so that we can really impact
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Women's Health, improve Women's Health and really make a
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difference. And when you really learn about
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all the injustices around it, all of the pain and suffering
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that women experienced during this time, and especially it's,
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it's a silent suffering a lot of times and, and the consequence
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of not being educated, I think it's tremendous.
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And so our goal is to really reach as many women as possible
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and help as many people as as we can in this.
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Life. It's amazing, isn't it?
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I mean, someone described menopause and perimenopause to
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me recently as a silent epidemic.
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And it, I don't think it is silent, but I think as women
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we've been silenced, which is different to it being silent,
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but also we've been misunderstood and misrepresented
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for many, many years. And as you know, I'm very
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interested in the history of hormones and the history of
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health of women. And women have been tormented
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often with their changing hormones, but they've been
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locked up in a silence. They've been given straight
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jackets to wear. They've had really barbaric
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treatments inflicted on them, but often by doctors who want to
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help but don't know how to because they've not understood
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what's been going on. So I almost forgive those
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doctors in the past for what they've done because they were
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trying their best. But now we know about hormones.
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We know about this great flux of hormones that occurs in
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perimenopause, that we know that our hormones really fluctuate.
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They're generally reducing. It can cause a lot more symptoms
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actually than in menopause itself.
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So we do know about it and we have safe, effective hormonal
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treatment available. But I think in my mind, and I'm
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really keen to hear what you think, there are two big
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injustices that go on. One is that women aren't
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believed, they're not listened to, they're just being told
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they're making it up and almost go away.
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You're annoying me. And those stories really haunt
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me that I hear every day from women.
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But the other thing is the injustice of not being given an
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evidence based treatment because as a physician, I can't think of
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any other area in medicine where it's so poorly managed, where
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people are turning away from the evidence and the guidelines and
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giving other treatments, for example, antidepressants, which
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is so much easier to access than hormones.
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So those two injustices are the the ones that keep me going with
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my work. But I know having watched this
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amazing docu series that you you've created come to life, is
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that that resonates quite a lot with You 2 as well, yeah.
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Go for it. I mean, it's, it's like you're
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telling me two points of like injustice and it's like it's
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just so many of them. It's like hard to pick which
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ones. But the fact that doctors don't
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get education, enough education on perimenopause and menopause,
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to me that's one of the greater problems that we have and part
7:12
of the injustice. It's like women are going to see
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their doctor and the doctor, they don't know anything about
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menopause, They don't know anything about perimenopause.
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And like you said, women are not being believed.
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But I think part of the problem is not that they don't just
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believe them, is that they don't have the knowledge and the
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education, right? And so I think that's one of the
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bigger problems. And one of the things that we're
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hoping that will change with this docu series is that
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education will be increased in medical schools.
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You know, when you know that it's going to happen to all
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women, 100% of women will go through menopause.
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It's hard to believe that the doctors are not getting enough
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education and training on this and no education and training at
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all on how to prescribe hormone therapy.
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And that's the other side of it is that, you know, they just
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don't know how to prescribe it. And so they stay away from it
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because they just hear the negative headlines from it and
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they just, you know, push it away.
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They don't want to mess with mess with it or deal with it.
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And so I think that's a really big, big problem.
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I think for me, I feel like not being educated while we're
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growing up. I didn't know about the word
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perimenopause until I was 38. She came across a social media
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video and I was being Moody, ragey, not sleeping.
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And she's like, I think this is you.
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I think you're a horror on that. Really.
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I didn't know. That called perimenopause.
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And it was interesting because someone on our team, she was
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like, I feel like a little bit more progressive and educated.
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And she's like, well, maybe because you live at an ashram if
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you're like living under a rock. And so you don't know.
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And it's like, no, we're just not educated on our on our
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bodies. And I think that's why even when
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we teach our workshops or our guests, students come here or
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wherever we go with the doing like test screenings, people are
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so grateful that we have made this series because they
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actually don't know what's going on with themselves.
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And to your point about the silent epidemic, you could say I
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feel like that's where I was. And that's what inspired me for,
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for my own reason to make this film.
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Because when you're suffering in silence for 2 1/2 months, you
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don't know what's going on with your body.
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You're doing everything right. You do meditation, you do
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mantras, you feed cows. You met our cows, right?
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And it's like, you know, where we live and we live in a very
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peaceful and natural environment and we should be happy and all
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of these things. And I was just suffering inside
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and, and in in a really dark place.
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And so I feel like that knowledge is power and having
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that knowledge, you can make your own decision, right?
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So even at the beginning of my journey, I was trying to figure
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out how to do things naturally. I remember trying to look for
10:00
like little drops, like to help me boost whatever I'm going
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through, but it didn't work until someone told me about
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hormone therapy. And that's the, the route I
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decided to go. But what's interesting is, is
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even making the, the decision right?
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So here at the retreat, we are more naturally focused, we teach
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breathing techniques, we do yoga like you do yoga.
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So we have this holistic approach.
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And for me to even consider you could say Western approach or
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going to the doctors like that was something to overcome.
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And so that's why I think education is important, whether
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someone's exploring the natural approach or, you know, the the
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medical approach, however you want to call it, unless you have
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that education, then you can't make the right choice.
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And that is, you know, something you say in the docu series.
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That's so true. And, you know, I was listening
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to some people talk on the radio recently and they were saying
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that women are now having more severe symptoms because they're
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hearing so many negative things about perimenopause.
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They're getting these symptoms. Whereas if people had really
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healthy lifestyles and they looked after themselves and they
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didn't have people like me talking about all the negative
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symptoms, everything would be so much better.
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And I sort of smiled to myself thinking, well, I know myself.
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When I was perimenopausal, I didn't recognize it for longer
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than it was about 6 months. And I, you know, I do have a
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healthy lifestyle, so I couldn't have made my lifestyle better.
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I know my yoga practice was stiffer and I wasn't doing it as
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much, but but you didn't have a clue.
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And you, you know, you can't have a better lifestyle than
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than what you have. So I don't think that adds up
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really, does it? And that's, you know, that's a
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message that we want to make sure women here is that it's no
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one can escape it. This is coming to you.
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It's coming to all of us, right? And we do, we live a very
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healthy lifestyle. We do a lot of breathing
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techniques. We do yoga, we do meditation.
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We do a lot of fasting to keep our bodies very pure.
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We, you could say, I mean, yeah, we have work and we do have some
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stress, but nothing compared to, you know, what's out there in
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the world. And, and, and and then suddenly
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out of nowhere, we didn't even know the word, our body started
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to change. And there are different symptoms
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for all women. So she had her own symptoms.
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And I didn't even know I wasn't going through it until I saw my
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blood work. And, you know, I had a lot of
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body deficiencies. My progesterone, my estrogen
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were at the lowest level, like in the red.
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And so, you know, it's the symptoms are going to be
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different for everyone. But the point here is that even
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if you have a very healthy lifestyle, it's, it's, this is a
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physiological change it. And there is nothing that you
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know you can really do to prevent your ovaries from not
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producing the ovaries that you used to produce in reproductive
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years, you know? And to that point, I feel like
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even when you add hormone therapy, it's not your thick
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salt. You still have to work on your
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nutrition, you still have to exercise, you still have to do
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all of these things. And I feel like some people miss
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that point. Even for those who are using
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social media to to, you know, educate people.
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It's not like the doctors are pushing hormones.
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It's like 1 aspect of a greater whole.
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But I think a lot of people might miss that.
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But it's so important. That's why it's part of our
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series. Yeah, I don't know where we
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would be without doing all the things we are doing.
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We've been doing for years, you know.
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Yeah, I think this is the thing. It's become very binary almost.
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It's like you take hormones or you do lifestyle, but actually,
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regardless of whether you take hormones or not, we, we all need
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to look at our lifestyle, you know, and I think that's, but
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that happens, right? Whether you're a man or a woman
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or a child, whether you've got diabetes or raised blood
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pressure or you're perimenopausal, we should be
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looking at our lifestyle. So in my mind, that's like it's
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mandatory. Do you know what I mean?
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Regardless, it's a non negotiable thing we should be
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doing. And we can all be honest with
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ourselves and improve what we eat or the way we sleep or the
14:08
way we, you know, look after ourselves.
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But I've learned the most really from listening to stories and
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it's a real honour and privilege to be a doctor and have people
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come to see me. And before I started my clinic I
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was AGP obviously, and then a doctor in hospitals before.
14:30
And I've worked in some really, really deprived areas, and I've
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heard things that you would not believe if I told you or, you
14:39
know, things that I never really realized happened to people.
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And the impact of something that's out of your control
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affecting you when you're already having a really
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difficult life is something that I think is really harrowing.
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And, you know, we're very privileged as in, you know, the
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way that we, the three of us live.
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We're, we're very calm. We've got lovely love around us.
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We've got support. We've got nice people, we've got
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kindness. But a lot of people don't have
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that. They're really struggling and
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they're struggling just to keep things together.
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And then the hormones start changing.
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Their mental health gets worse. They might be turning to
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addiction. They might be shouting more and
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an abusive partner. The children might be hearing
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this turmoil going on. They might be giving up their
15:33
jobs because they can't think and concentrate.
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And this is like so raw. And the stories I hear are so
15:41
awful that they keep me working, but they're stories that are in
15:46
my head. So you doing this docu series is
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a really powerful thing because they're, we, we see a lot on
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social media, but they're only short clips.
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There have been other sort of documentaries, but they've sort
16:01
of made it quite glossy and it's not a glossy experience for a
16:06
lot of people. So just explain why like your
16:10
docu series is first, you're going to be more impactful, I
16:14
think, but also what the because it is, it is the rawness of it
16:18
that really appeals to me. I and that's not an insult.
16:21
I hope you take that in the right way, but.
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I think it's showing our vulnerabilities.
16:25
So we are showing you what we're going through.
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Here's us visiting the doctors and asking questions and really
16:33
not knowing anything. Like one of the questions like,
16:36
am I going to be on hormones for the rest of my life?
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Like I didn't know because I thought, well, maybe if I just
16:41
take this for a little bit, then I can go back to my natural
16:44
lifestyle. And so showing this honest,
16:47
vulnerable journey, the, the journey that, you know, we're
16:52
monks, we're teachers and, and we run an ashram, but we have
16:55
our own struggles too. And then we also meet women who
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have entrusted us with sharing the, the raw and powerful and
17:04
deep stories and their own struggles in their own ways, Not
17:07
just hormones and perimenopause, but miscarriages, infertility
17:11
and having suicidal thoughts and being near that or being
17:14
dismissed by a doctor. So the women featured in our
17:18
series are very, very vulnerable, which I think.
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Helps. Other women who watch it relate
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to this series as well. I just want to remind you that
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I'm the founder of the free Balance app, which you should
17:33
all be downloading. So you can learn so much more
17:36
about your hormones from and also monitor symptoms if you're
17:39
having them. So just head to the App Store or
17:41
Google Play and download Balance app.
17:46
We learn from others. Actually, we learn good and bad
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things from others. Of course, we're learning all
17:52
the time in life, but to hear some of those stories and the
17:57
way women have been treated, what's really sad for me is that
18:02
most people who watch it will be going, yeah, that's happened to
18:05
me or my friend or my relative. It's not unique.
18:09
And what I really want to do in my lifetime is to to instigate
18:15
change for the better. And I really hope that by
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listening to some of the awfulness that you do portray in
18:24
the docu series, it's going to accelerate that change quicker.
18:29
Yeah. And one of the things too about
18:33
it, you know, we when we think of this and I want to ask you to
18:36
and maybe you can tell us a little bit more about this, but
18:40
it's the, the long term effect of perimenopause or the lack of
18:45
hormones in the body, which is one of the things that really
18:48
stroke me. When we think of perimenopause
18:50
and menopause, we think it's a momentary thing.
18:53
It's going to pass, right. And and we hear a lot like just
18:57
push through it. You're going to just just a few
18:59
more years or just one more here or a few months and and then
19:02
you'll be over with it and that the symptoms will pass.
19:05
But the long term effects, to me, that's like the greatest
19:10
thing. It's like I think all women need
19:11
to recognize this, this consequence of of perimenopause
19:15
and menopause. Can you tell us a little bit
19:18
more about that long lasting effect that will perimenopause
19:22
will have on women? Yeah.
19:23
And I'm really grateful that you've asked that because I
19:25
think in the US it's, it's worse the misinformation than over
19:30
here, actually. Where?
19:32
Because even when we went out, do you remember we went out for
19:34
a lovely supper in New York and a few people on the table were
19:37
going, oh, I'm through my menopause and I'm like, what?
19:40
You're still alive? You've got no hormones like.
19:43
And so that there is this sort of marketing sphere almost that
19:47
it, it is a transition. It's a phase in our life.
19:49
So we get through perimenopause, we get through menopause and
19:51
then we come out the other side. And as you know, I worry a lot
19:55
about the metabolic effects of not having hormones, the
19:58
inflammation in our body of not having hormones, the effects of
20:02
diseases. And that's really important when
20:05
we think about long term health and our health span versus.
20:09
This is our lifespan and it's quite hard to think about that
20:13
when we're in our thirties, 40s and 50s.
20:15
How are we going to be when we're 80?
20:18
But I really want my brain to be as active as possible for as
20:21
long as possible, but I want my body to be as well.
20:24
I'm as many people listening. No, I'm quite scared of
20:28
osteoporosis, especially of my spine.
20:30
So I want my bones to be as strong as possible.
20:32
And of course I exercise and of course I have vitamin D and of
20:35
course I have calcium rich foods.
20:37
But I also know that hormones help build the bone and my risk
20:41
of osteoporosis is so much higher without hormones and all
20:45
our inflammatory diseases. And this is where I feel that
20:48
women have been short changed really because menopause is
20:53
traditionally been just about some symptoms, this transition.
20:56
Whereas whether women have symptoms or not, they've still
21:00
got this increased risk of all those inflammatory diseases.
21:04
And bearing in mind the most common diseases we have as women
21:07
that we die from are heart disease and dementia.
21:11
We've got to be grown up and thinking actually, what can we
21:14
do to reduce that risk of diseases?
21:16
And taking hormones will reduce the risk.
21:19
And it doesn't mean that everybody who takes hormones
21:23
will be healthy forever and never have diseases.
21:26
And the same way it doesn't mean that people who don't take
21:30
hormones are going to get heart disease, dementia.
21:32
They've just got this risk. But what you're writing is that
21:36
people aren't told that. And my, I feel my main job is as
21:41
an educator really to give people information so they, they
21:46
make choices. You know, you are the least
21:49
judge mental people that I've ever met.
21:51
And I try not to judge people about their choices.
21:54
I've treated over the years, many patients who have been
21:57
smokers, many patients who've been drug abusers, many patients
22:01
who have been Alcoholics. I would never judge them because
22:04
I don't know the consequences, their life, how it's been to
22:08
lead them to take certain habits.
22:10
But I'm there to help them. And it's the same with these
22:13
conversations. But the problem is women and men
22:17
haven't been told the the full story about hormones.
22:21
Yeah, we, we like a lot of education and that's why this
22:26
series is it's going to, you know, try to cover and all of
22:30
it. And, you know, it's hopefully
22:31
it's going to help women make an informed decision, you know, and
22:35
it will empower women so they can take control of their lives.
22:39
And hopefully they will find the right doctors, physicians that
22:42
will support them on their journey because it's it's, it's
22:45
tough out there. It's there is not enough help,
22:47
but there are doctors, but not fully, you know, supportive of,
22:51
of treatment. And one thing I'm noticing, and
22:54
I want to ask you about this because we've spent already over
22:57
2 years working on the series and things have been changing
23:01
very rapidly during this time. Like when we first started, I
23:04
don't perimenopause was not yet a big topic of conversation.
23:09
Now it's becoming more mainstream, but also I'm
23:12
starting to notice a shift. I saw a lot of people and
23:16
doctors educating us on hormone therapy, which I think it's
23:19
great, but I'm starting to notice a shift to non hormonal
23:24
medications like, you know, can you tell us what's happening
23:27
right now? Give us an update on what's
23:29
happening in the world of of menopause and hormone therapy
23:33
and non hormonal therapy. Of course, soon one of the the
23:37
things is that people have been scared away from hormones for
23:40
the wrong reasons since as you know, the WHI, the Women's
23:43
Health Initiative study scared literally the world away from
23:46
hormones. And in the US before the study,
23:50
44, zero 40% of menopause women were prescribed hormones and now
23:56
it's less than 5%. It's gone really low in the US.
23:59
Over here in the UK it was 30% of menopause, a woman were
24:03
prescribed hormones and now it's 14%.
24:05
So just under half because people were scared because they
24:08
said risk of clot, risk of heart attacks, risk of stroke and so
24:12
forth. But that was with older types of
24:14
synthetic hormones. So over the last 20 odd years,
24:18
people have been really scared of hormones.
24:21
And so we've been trying as like the doctors, people who write
24:25
the guidelines try to think of other ways to help, especially
24:28
with symptoms. So they've been looking at the
24:30
symptoms. What do we do?
24:31
Oh, low mood is a symptom, Let's give antidepressants.
24:35
Oh, let's think about other treatments that we could perhaps
24:39
give. So maybe some, I don't know,
24:41
some non hormonal vaginal moisturizer or lubricant to help
24:46
with the those symptoms. Let's think about antibiotics
24:49
for urinary tract infections. Let's think about the nerve
24:53
pains that people get. Let's think about amitriptyline
24:56
or gabapentin or progavalin. There's lots of other non
24:59
hormonal drugs that have like crept into guidelines over the
25:03
years. Many years ago it was very much
25:06
as a hormonal problem. Let's give hormones.
25:09
And that's why HRT prescribing was really increasing.
25:12
And even in this as early as long ago as the 70s, they
25:16
realized that women who took hormones were healthier, they
25:19
had less risk of diseases and they felt better, their
25:22
well-being was better, right? So that's good thing as well.
25:25
So that's why HRC prescribing really, really carried on
25:28
increasing until these scares that have come in.
25:31
So women are still getting symptoms.
25:34
Guidelines still were written, but drug companies were still
25:37
making drugs. And and so there have been lots
25:40
of drugs that have been used in an off license way for different
25:44
symptoms. And some of them might help,
25:47
some of them often don't help. A lot of them have side effects.
25:50
If you think about gabapentin and progavalin, the so-called
25:53
gabapentinoids, they're highly addictive drugs.
25:56
When they first came out, everyone started thinking great,
25:59
this is great, this is going to be safer than hormones.
26:02
But now they're controlled drugs.
26:04
There's a real addiction problems with them, you know it,
26:06
they're horrible. So there's, now we're trying to
26:08
get people off those drugs, but they're still mentioning
26:11
guidelines. So people are still thinking
26:14
about what else can we do. And, and I, I talked to you
26:17
about this from someone who is not sponsored by pharma.
26:20
I do nothing with pharmaceutical companies.
26:23
My work comes from evidence and clinical experience.
26:26
But there's been some new drugs that have come out.
26:28
There's two of them that are neurokinin receptor antagonists.
26:32
So they block something called neurokininin in our bodies and
26:37
they actually first were produced to help us.
26:40
Well, they thought they might work as neuro skeptics so to
26:43
help with people with certain psychiatric conditions, but they
26:47
weren't very effective. But they noticed people weren't
26:49
feeling so hot in the studies. So now they've been marketed for
26:54
the vase and motor symptoms and there is evidence they'll reduce
26:57
the hot flushes and sweats, but they've only been compared to
27:00
placebo. Normally when you bring out in a
27:03
drug you compare it to the gold standard and the gold standard
27:06
of course as you know is the hormone replacement therapy.
27:09
They haven't done head to head studies with HRT.
27:12
It's just with placebo. And they do reduce incidence of
27:16
hot flashes. They might help sleep as well,
27:19
and that might be because people are getting less night sweats.
27:21
Who knows. But when you look at neurokinin,
27:24
it works not just in our thermoregulatory zone of the
27:27
body. It works throughout our whole
27:29
body and system. And it can affect other levels
27:33
of humans. So it can reduce levels of our
27:35
own hormones, estradiol, progesterone, testosterone, It
27:39
will reduce serotonin, so it often lowers mood as well.
27:43
And it has other metabolic effects in the body.
27:45
Some of them we don't know. One of the things that worries
27:48
me is that it blocks an important protein called
27:50
kisspeptin. And kisspeptin is a protein that
27:53
stops cancer spreading in the body.
27:56
So obviously we've got lots of defense mechanisms in our body.
27:59
We want to be as healthy as possible.
28:01
So if we have cancer, the chances of it spreading are as
28:04
low as possible. So this kisspeptin is blocked by
28:07
neurocoinin receptor antagonists.
28:10
So one of the things that worries me is that these drugs
28:13
are being marketed, if you like, to women who can't have HRT.
28:16
So women who've had breast cancer, that's a whole
28:20
conversation in itself where the women who've had breast cancer
28:23
contain hormones because a lot of them still can.
28:26
So if we don't know what happens long term, if we're blocking
28:31
this kiss peptin, does it mean that their outlook from cancer
28:35
could be worse? And I'm not saying it is, but
28:38
I'm not saying it isn't because we haven't got the studies.
28:40
There's a small study in The Lancet that showed that there
28:42
was an increased incidence of some types of cancer in women
28:45
taking these drugs. But the problem is when drugs
28:48
come to market, then you have a as a drug company, they have a
28:53
patent, so they have a period of time where they can make their
28:56
money. Obviously it's about making
28:57
money. So these drug companies have
28:59
spent a lot of money. There's two drug companies
29:03
who've made these two different drugs, but they're both in the
29:05
same class. And just doing a bit of Googling
29:08
online, it's about $2 billion they've they've paid between
29:12
them to get these drugs to market.
29:14
So they have to make money. So these drug companies sponsor,
29:18
I think probably every menopause society across the world.
29:22
I can't, I haven't looked at all of them, but the big ones, they
29:25
sponsor and they sponsor conferences.
29:28
I was at a conference a few months ago and the big fancy
29:32
hotel had a big flag with the sponsor.
29:35
You know, all the people who were working on the board and
29:37
the panels were paid for by, if they weren't paid directly that
29:41
their travel and everything was paid by these these companies
29:44
because they're like the diamond sponsor or whatever.
29:47
So they're trying to help. So that's going to influence
29:50
people. And one of them I know I think
29:53
it was here before last, they did an advert in Super Bowl for
29:57
the drug. This was resilinotent and I
30:00
think it cost about 7 million to have an advert in Super Bowl.
30:04
So you know, they're trying very hard to get the money back.
30:07
And I get that. But what I find really sort of
30:11
sad a bit or disappointing or maybe perplexing, I'm not sure
30:15
which adjective to use, is that I see doctors on social media
30:18
pushing these drugs and saying how great they are.
30:21
It's really good to have a non hormonal treatment, especially
30:23
for women who've had breast cancer.
30:25
Well, if I've had breast cancer, there's one choice whether I
30:29
take humans or not, but the other conversation is not just
30:33
give me a drug that's not been tested.
30:35
We've got very short term studies in these drugs and very
30:38
short term data for women. If her breast cancer, you know,
30:41
it really scares me. I have a responsibility as a
30:44
doctor to not do harm. And, you know, we share
30:47
uncertainty with our patients. And if I'm giving hormones to
30:50
women who've had breast cancer, we share uncertainty.
30:53
But we know there are established benefits from HRT
30:56
for the bones, for their heart and so forth with these drugs.
31:00
It's very uncharted territory. And I'm quite a cautious Dr. so
31:04
I want to be really careful. So it's, it's but, but when
31:08
there's money, money talks. So it's difficult.
31:12
Definitely important to get this information out because it might
31:15
make women be more confused with, you know, what they're
31:19
learning about hormone therapy, but then they're hearing like,
31:21
oh, these non hormonal treatments, you know, could be
31:25
more harmful so. Even for us, you know, we as we
31:30
were exploring and interviewing the doctors and learning more
31:33
and trying to understand hormones and what they are.
31:37
So we started learning about, well, there's synthetic hormones
31:40
and then there's, you could say natural hormone.
31:43
By identical. Or by identical right.
31:46
That's the new term, but what was really well cool for us is
31:51
that, you know, they come from the natural ones come from yams
31:55
and soy, but people don't know that, right?
31:59
Even birth control is synthetic. When can we have like the yam
32:03
soy based for those who want to take birth control because there
32:08
there's less side effects when you take you could say like the
32:12
more natural hormone from your side.
32:15
Like what is the conversation with like the synthetic hormones
32:18
versus is the bioidentical the the natural hormone?
32:21
Because I think that that is the missing piece because even in
32:24
the whi yams and soy type of based hormones were not studied
32:30
yet. So why are we still even doing
32:32
synthetic? It makes no sense, does it?
32:35
It's like, you know, giving you I, I mean, I have to say to
32:39
people, it's like giving you fresh strawberries or strawberry
32:43
candy or sweets like you there, you could label them both
32:46
strawberry, but they're very different in the body.
32:48
And we have to be thinking that. And people are realizing more,
32:52
you know, contraception wasn't even marketed as contraception.
32:55
It wasn't licensed as contraception initially because
32:57
they didn't do studies on contraception.
32:59
It was just about bleeding. But it's synthetic.
33:02
It doesn't have the same effect. So everyone that's scared about
33:05
HRT should be scared probably about synthetic hormones.
33:10
But it's a different conversation.
33:12
And, and, and I know like the work and the research that
33:16
you've done for the docu series helps unveil that as well
33:20
because it is a really important conversation to move this
33:23
conversation away from the harms of taking hormones and looking
33:27
at the benefits. We have to be thinking about the
33:30
benefits of taking natural hormone replacement, as in the
33:34
body identical, the bioidentical, it's just the same
33:36
structure as our own hormones, which makes it very safe.
33:39
That was important for us as we decided how we're going to, you
33:44
know, develop the storyline, develop, you know what, what
33:47
topics are we going to cover? Because we have, you know, two
33:51
different audiences, some with like the very strong ideology.
33:54
Natural is the only way. And that's, that's my life view.
33:58
And that's what it is. And I think that's represented
34:01
in Sadhvi Anebuti's journey. And you know, that's, that was
34:05
hers. And, and for me it was, you
34:07
know, the other route, but having that knowledge because
34:12
you have to have a deeper knowledge that even be willing
34:16
to be challenged, right? Because be OK being challenged.
34:20
And maybe the docu series will do that for people where it's
34:22
like, wait a minute, I believe or I look at life this way or I
34:25
look at hormones this way. But am I willing to be
34:28
challenged? Am I willing to listen to these
34:31
different doctors, experts and the women and be open to
34:35
exploring something else? Because I feel like there is a
34:39
harm where we're so locked into one idea and it becomes so
34:44
rigid. And that's for experts, that's
34:46
for doctors, and that's for just people in general.
34:49
Unless we are open people, then we're always going to stay
34:52
stuck. Whereas you can be open, learn,
34:57
understand things and different way and then you could still
35:00
make a, a choice from there. But, and I think that's what the
35:03
docu series also does it, it challenges people, it will
35:06
challenge the viewer. We challenged ourselves as well.
35:10
And even again, like we were like, we're taught like that's
35:14
what we practiced the natural way.
35:16
And it's like, Oh my goodness, I'm going to have to go to
35:17
doctor. I'm going to have to get a
35:19
prescription. And then it's like, wait a
35:20
minute, it's natural, right? So, but unless we're OK being
35:24
challenged and learning to trust our body and our mind and
35:29
ourselves, you know, by ourselves without the input of
35:32
others, I think that is also a missing piece.
35:34
We need to learn how to make decisions for ourselves based
35:37
on, you know, what we're going through.
35:40
Absolutely. It's changing conversations and
35:42
changing perspectives. Thinking about natural is
35:46
actually having hormones and there are risks of not having
35:49
hormones. So there's lots, lots to think
35:51
about, lots of excitement. I am so excited.
35:55
I've seen so many parts of the docu series, but to actually see
35:58
it all together is going to be super exciting.
36:01
And I just look forward to seeing the feedback and the
36:05
response from people, men and women who watch it.
36:08
So before we finish, I'm going to have to ask for, I think to
36:12
take home tips from each of you. Otherwise you might argue and
36:15
you can't argue over if I only give you 3.
36:18
So I what I want to do is 4 reasons why people should watch
36:23
the docu series when it comes out, which is called Balance by
36:26
the way, just for people today because I love the fact that our
36:29
apps called Balance, your docu series called Balance and they
36:32
were chosen for different reasons, but it's just lovely
36:35
having this unity. So 4 reasons why we should be
36:39
watching a balanced docu series. For me, for I'll do 2 reasons,
36:43
you'll do the other two. For me, it's all about
36:46
education. When you are educated, you will
36:49
know what's going on with your body which is affecting your
36:53
mind. And with that education, you'll
36:55
maybe stop blaming yourself. You'll Start Stop criticizing
36:58
yourself. You'll stop judging yourself and
37:00
actually have more compassion for yourself because now you're
37:03
understanding what your body is going through.
37:07
Second is to my point earlier. It's learning about the body but
37:11
also challenging. Being open and being willing to
37:14
be challenged on your ideas. This way you can make an
37:18
educated decision. Yeah, I think Balance is going
37:22
to empower women. Like, like she said, it's the
37:25
education. It's just the knowledge that
37:27
it's going to come through the series.
37:29
We have the top experts in the nation, all of the US, and we
37:33
have the top expert in the UK, Doctor Louise Neeson.
37:36
And the information that they share with us, it's just
37:39
completely incredible. All women need to hear this
37:43
message. They need to hear this
37:44
education, this information, because it's going to change
37:47
everything that you know about the women's body, about the
37:50
experience of perimenopause and menopause.
37:53
And I think that it's it's an injustice that women don't know
37:56
that don't have this knowledge. So I think it's going to change
37:59
Women's Health. I think it's going to change the
38:01
education that's coming forward and it's going to change the how
38:05
we view perimenopause. And I think I gave you 3 or
38:08
more, but I think everybody needs to watch the series.
38:11
Indeed, and thank you. For for trusting us with your
38:16
expertise and your story. We are 100% always behind you,
38:21
and we know you behind the camera.
38:23
You've visited us here at the ashram.
38:25
You've met our cows. You know, you're, you're one of
38:28
the kindest parts that we know and we personally have seen your
38:33
heart, your passion, your work, and how much you deeply care
38:37
about women Like it's, it's incredible.
38:40
So you have a legacy that you are already working on that
38:44
you're doing so much for women. And we're so grateful to you and
38:47
all the work you've done for throughout the years.
38:49
Oh, don't make me cry, but thank you very much.
38:51
Thank you.