Latest / WoT Spoilers / A Making - Towers of Midnight chapter 40 - EP571

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A Making - Towers of Midnight chapter 40 - EP571 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the wheel of time spoilers poodcast recording, because
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: we have to forge the hammer of the gods molanarh.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Well, the hammer of one god anyway, meal Neir Neir.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: He really tried super hard to obfuscate that one. No,
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: he didn't, And I was looking up.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: I was like, I wonder if these real time words
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: just happened to no one who saw its? Like he
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: just made the old tongue words match something like he
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: who soars is not preexisting.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Yep. No, he he took me near, fantasized it harder
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: as if it wasn't already enough of a fantasy word,
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: and then backfilled it to make it old tongue. Which
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: is fine. I'm not mad about it. It is lazy,
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: might be harsh, but it is the less effortful way
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: of doing that.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this this calendar, and you know, I
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: feel like there's other things that he's done that with.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, like all his characters names are blatantly stole
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: stolen from Yeah, yeah.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: No, so for sure, what was what's calendar? Sounds like calendar?
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Oh well, I guess that's not a good example, is it.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, it is the sword in the Stone, Yes,
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: for sure.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: I was like, how ex caliber, Oh.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: Okay, not the sword in the stone. Fun fact, No
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: it's not. It's the sword from the lake actually, but yes,
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: but yeah no Milnir and Maalaan near is uh yeah,
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: they're just not working very hard for it. And it's
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: fine because literally, I mean Paren and p Une, right,
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: it's fine a Thor, Thor whatever, it's fine. Though notably
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Paren is the one with the hammer here, not Thor.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Right, well, Thor has the lightning.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the mixing and matching has no rhyme or reason.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: This is a crazy quilt right right now.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: I mean the idea is, of course, that each each
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: of the legends in the Wheel of Time is made
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: up of multiple of our legends, and multiple our legends
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: is made up of you know, a single person from
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: the Wheel of Time, right, alth Or inspires multiple different
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: legends about him.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like Jesus. But then also, you do need
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: your constellations in order to know that a character is
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: a character, right, Like Matt losing an eye and hanging
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: from a tree really locks in the odin thing, sure, right, right, right,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you need multiple points to make a line, and
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: you can't just have a single point and have everyone
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: get the reference. But other times, yeah, you can have
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: a single point and everyone will get the reference. It's
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: a hammer named me. Okay, it's the same thing.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: It's fine, played by Chris Hemsworth. Please know. But yeah,
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: we get to we get to forge the hammer, and
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: I guess I should apologize for I didn't record last week.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Got a little sick. My voice was a little track.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: How dare you have a meat suit that fails occasionally?
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: This is ridiculous. I would like a refund on my
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: co host Please?
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Can you just upload me onto the internet. So I'm
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: a digital intelligence only AI.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: But like Sands artificial you know, you still be yourself.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: You just be on hardware instead of what It's true. Yeah, yeah,
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: I'm I would be first in line if it wasn't
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: going to be a weird, exploitive hellscape of matrix like
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: dystopian doom.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Bob overus my ass, except you know I'm not
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: the programmer.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: He is, right, Yeah, and you don't have to whatever,
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: say stick you with this franchise. We're sticking with this. Yeah.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: This is a fun chapter. It's visually beautiful. It's Sanderson
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: all through and through obviously because it's paren But it's
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: one of those ones where it works really well because
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: it's a really visual chapter. I mean, blacksmithing has always
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: been a very visual thing, but power Ray Blacksmithy like
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: this is you need a visual writer to really make
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: this work well.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: And for me, it's a finally moment Parent, Yeah, finally
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: accepts his responsibility right for me, more than the forging
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: of mahalan R, more than like anything else that happens
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: in this chapter, Parent says, yes, I will be your
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: leader finally.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for the last time. This is the last time
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: he's going to make us go through this wishy washy thing.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: This is the last flip flop mm hmm, flopping for
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: the last time.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I was thinking about this and how often
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: that parent has flip flopped. And I will be a leader. Oh,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: I can't do it. Take away the banners, put the
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: banners up, in all that kind of stuff, and just
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: it feels so much like the Sanderson's writing in a
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: way that really reading stormlighte archive in the way some
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: of his main characters, like Kaladin seem to just go
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: through the same cycle of emotional beats without ever coming
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: to a resolution and getting better, right, And I get
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: why he wants to do do that, Like he doesn't
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: want to portray someone healing from mental illness, because you
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: don't just heal from mental illness. At the same time,
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: it's not my favorite thing to read this character who
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: goes to the same struggle and the same cycle over
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: and over and over again, because I do that in
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: my own head with myself. I don't need to read it,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: you know. So there's a little bit here where I
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: see Kaladin in Parin and I see this repetition and
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: I'm glad that it's finally done.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely kind of memory hole a lot of
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: that because I'm fucking over it. I like the forging
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: of the hammer. I like him announcing the pulling out
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: the banner and going and starting the battle with the
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: White Cloaks. I really just try to memory hole all
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: of him going over the same tired old arguments for
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: the thousandth time. But yeah, it is a finally moment
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: because it is that he forges the hammer, and you're like, Okay,
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: if that was not the end of this rumination spiral,
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: I don't know what will be.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: And he says, I want to be your leader, right
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: as opposed to I will you know, I don't want
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: to do it, and there's nobody else and I'll take
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: it on for now. And like this is finally him
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: saying to himself and the people around him, Yes, I
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: accept leadership, and I accept that I am the best
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: person to be your leader. And there isn't anybody else,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: you know, so, and it's just it's I think, on
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: reading it the first time, this was such an awesome
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: moment for me.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: Right, you know, it's like one long stretch. It's just
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: the whole chapter is one big.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: Thank God. Yes, you know, it's that that level of
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: especially with Parent and just and how frustrating he's been
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: with this particular bone.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Plus like I mean, who doesn't like thor in
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: his hammer?
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: No? Yeah, and the awesome then the the visual sparks
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: and the feeding, the power and the like what are
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: you doing? Yeah?
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a circle.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: And I yes, so good, so so so so good.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: I guess I should read a hing and this is
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: worth worthy of reading. Yeah.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Start us with our broody boy of Parent at the
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: top of the chapter, with a blacksmith's puzzle as the symbol.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: A making paren sat alone on a tree stump, eyes
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: closed and faced to the dark sky. The camp was situated,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: the gateway closed, and reports taken. Parrien finally had time
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: to rest. That was dangerous. Resting him let him think.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: Thinking brought him memories. Memories brought pain. He could smell
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: the world on the wind, layers of scents swirling together.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: The camp around him, sweaty people, spices for cooking, soaps
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: for cleaning, horse dung, emotions, the hills around them, dried
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: pine needles, mud from a stream, the carcass of a
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: dead animal, the world beyond, hints of dust from the
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: distant road, a stand of lavender that somehow survived in
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: the dying world. There was no pollen, there were no wolves.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Both seemed like terrible signs to him. He felt sick,
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: physically ill, as if his stomach were filling with muddy
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: swamp water, rotting moss, and bits of dead beetles. He
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: wanted to scream. He wanted to find slayer and kill him,
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: pound fists on the man's face until the blood engulfed it.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: So that's the mood he's in when fail comes.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: Up, brooding at maximum boil.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: I want to bash your face in, no more drugs
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: for that man.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: He's just sitting there, sort of staring, just vibrating with rage,
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: just the need to explode and smash but there's no
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: one to explode and smash at, so he's just still.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Because this is the reaction to Hopper being killed for
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: the second time.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's a very it feels like a pyrrhic victory, Like, yeah,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: it's not truly an empty victory. He did get his
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: people away, but at such a high cost and without
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: actually eliminating Slayer. He only eliminated the dream Spike, so
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: it feels very hollow to him. And he's so upset.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: He's not even pacing. He's literally just sitting there just.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: And so yeah, and he and Fayela get in this
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: debate again about like he's like, all I have to
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: send people home. She's like, didn't you just say every
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: man would be needed. Wasn't that your justification for like
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: saving the White Cloaks is every man would be needed? Right?
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Like what how why are you sending these people home?
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: You have an army, the last battle is coming. What
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: is going through your head? Right? Yeah?
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Because this is the thing is that parents sitting there
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: vibrating all alone. The entire camp is sitting in a
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: circle around him, staring at him, worrying with him, and
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: he is just so lost in his own angst that
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: he doesn't even realize that like half of the leadership
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: at the camp is like actively chewing their nails just
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: out of earshot while Fayo goes and talks to him,
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: like everyone is focused on him. He is the lynchpin
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: of everything for them, and like she says, you know
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: they're worried, you're gonna send them away, but like the
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: last batal's coming, Dude, are you gonna like pick up
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: the banner and leave.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile, in the back of his head, he's sort of
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: ruminating over what's going on with this attack, right, what's
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: going on with the trap? Why was the trap existing?
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Because that part's hollow too. That part didn't.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Resolve either, and so he sends off.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: Here's Shannon.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Here's Shannon who is a fan of the Wale of Time.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Name for James hirsh a fan of the Wheel of Time.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: That's the only one of those names I got out
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: of this chapter.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: Oh really, a lot of names.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but all of them are pre existing characters.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, Amen.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Amen was from patha Dagger's it was his first appearance.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: He's really, yeah, he's he's been around for a while.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: He's got been in a couple of scenes. Aleandra, Elias,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: gall fayeel Berylaine, you know, I mean, oh yeah, Gallienne.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: It's it's a cast of characters. But yeah, you're right,
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: we didn't actually add many.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: He's really he's listing our normal paren posse. But you
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: know parent posse.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, you're right, that is who they are,
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: So yeah, paren is he's actually multi time asking in
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: the way that does make sense, where he's doing two
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: completely different things alternatingly, like in parallel, where he's working
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: one thing with his hands right working or heading towards
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: the forge and thinking about working on stuff with his hands,
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: very mechanical, very tactile, while also thinking strategy, thinking maps,
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: thinking logistics, like a very different part of the brain.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: So he's able to actually like work both problems more effectively,
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: because you know, multitasking is a complicated topic, but this
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: is the kind of multitasking that actually works. This is
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: not you know, trying to read and write at the
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: same time. These are different parts of your brain.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: Because you use it. I was gonna say're using two
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: different parts of your brain. You're using you know, ones
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: are very physical, ones are very mental. Yeah, that's why
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: you can drive and listen to a podcast at the
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: same time, right, right.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not the same task, They're not using the
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: same brain architecture at the same time. And sometimes yeah
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: it's smoother. You know. Paren has repeatedly thought through intense
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: tangles while working with his hands.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: So you know he's looking around. He's sort of like, oh,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: what's what's a good ambush spot? Right, because he's thinking
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: about like I we were going to get ambushed, right,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: we were going to do there's going to be a trap.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Where would the trap be sprung? Well, probably in a
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: good ambush spot, right, because there's two bits of information. One,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: he says, bring him up with the Johanna Road, and
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: he realizes he was told there was mud, and that
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: that's a deception.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: Right if you assume that that's true. One thing, if
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: you question if it's true, maybe someone just lied to us.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: Because because if it's tavern, if your people find mud,
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: it isn't necessarily Taverian. If some random traveler tells you
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: that there's mud, that might be good old fashioned lying.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Right, and that's what it was. It was to get
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: them on that spot. And then he says what are
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: these and our God says, old ruins, nothing of relevance.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: They've degraded too far to provide cover. They're really just
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: a few moss colored boulders. And Parent goes and immediately
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: something was coming together for him. Portal stone. He knows
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: in that moment, Oh, that's that's a portal stone. That's
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: how they're going to get the trolocks in.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't even know if he knows it's
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: a portal stone, but he knows that those ruins that
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: perfect location like something and truly only portal stones fit.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: He's experienced portal stones, well, he's experienced portal stones once,
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: but he experienced Rand experiencing portal stones that other time.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: So yeah, there's really something to do with those ruins,
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: something to do with the way that this road is
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: laid out. It's it's too obvious, like That's part of
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: what I love about this scene is when he just
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: grabs the map and he takes his two generals and
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: he says, tell me where I to put an ambush
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: and they point at exactly where they were camped and
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: exactly where the White Cloaks are, and they both say, well,
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: obviously the terrain gives you exactly one answer to this
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: from a military perspective, right, And he's just like, mm, yeah, no, no,
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: those ruins are going to start vomiting monsters. It's going
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: to happen. Something somehow is going to come out of
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: those old ruins and give us a reason to show
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: the White Cloaks that were good people. He probably does
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: think about it being a portal stone. I don't know,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: he's kind of surprised when he learns when the Ashamn
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: says that there's channeling coming through. But whatever, there's ruins
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: and it's a weird, mysterious world. So fair to guess
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: that the ruins are the problem because you're looking right
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: at them right when they start portaling in people Like
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: He's not, That's exactly what he's staring.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: He's like, they're going to come from that location, and
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: so without traveling, you know, he knows they can't use
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: portals for trolics. So yeah, I think he was right
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: on about that. I think he immediately was like, there's
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: only one answer, there's only one answer.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: They can't come through gateways. We know that portal stones
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: are in ruins almost always. They're never in normal inhabited
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: cities anymore. And then yeah, so he sends off for
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: the ashaman. He doesn't even notice to who. He's just like, someone,
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: go get the aushamon. I'm gonna start dicking around with blacksmithing.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: And it's too simple for him. So about the time
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: the Aushaman show up, he's ready for something more complicated.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because he's just he warms up with some more shoes,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: right like, he sends away. The guy was working in
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: the forge warms up with the horseshoe and he's like, ah,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: this is too easy, And he doesn't necessarily send for
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Grady and Neald to help with the forging. He wants
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: them to like check on the white cloaks and like
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: he's just like yeah.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: But when Neil shows up, he's like, hey, hey, buddy,
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: I could help you with the with the distraction project
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: before we get to the real meat and potatoes of
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: the day.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: I can heat up your metal, which is that is
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: also really cool thing of like using magic to make
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: your technology better, right, using channeling to maintain temperature in
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: the metal so that it's ductile and doesn't go through
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: heating and cooling cycles and you don't have to wait
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: for the heat up. Like that's such a cool idea,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: just in terms of a from a maker's perspective.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the Sanderson touch there of like, hey, I
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: don't have to do the forging with magic. I can
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: just augment your forging experience with magic. I was actually
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: watching a video just last night about a candy shop
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: in Turkey that's like one hundred and sixty years old,
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: and how they were making all their you know, Turkish delight. God,
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: it looked so good, like actual authentic Turkish delight, and
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: it was really cool how they had integrated machines with
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: traditional candy making. It was very much like no, no, no,
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: the person is still very much elbows deep in the
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: candy making process. But also they're not saying no to
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: a little electric help when they're making these massive batches
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: of hot, sticky stuff that needs to be mixed for
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: like there is a human plus machine makes business go
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: burr kind of thing instead of just giving it all
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: to a machine, like the humans are there and it's
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: it was just that's kind of like this. It's like no, no, no,
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: we don't need to have the hammers being moved by
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: flows of air. We just need the metal to stop
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: cooling down.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: And I think in that moment, Neil discovers a talent
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: capital T talent for making power forged weapons, right, because
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: he's heating right and parent I wanted a nice yellow
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: red not so hot, you know. And he's hammering and hammering,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: and Grady turns and neiled and goes, what the hell
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: are you doing?
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like he's going along, playing like the normal
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: hot cross buns and suddenly he's starting to like free
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: jazz in the middle of it. It's like we're just
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: supposed to be doing a little warm up exercise. What
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: are you doing in meis? He's like, I don't know.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: The spirit's just moving in me, and this little riff
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: just feels like what's right.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: And I'm convinced that it's a capital T talent.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I could totally see that.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: The making of power forged weapons, right, Neil has that
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: ability and like maybe other people can copy it, right,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: But like in the same way that making tirangreols is
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: a talent that was lost, I think like.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: He probably be a really good teacher for helping other
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: people like develop the skill because he has it at
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: an intuitive level, Like you can teach it, but you
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: can't teach the feel. You can just teach the mechanics,
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: and he's got the feel. No, I like that. Also,
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: it makes sense because men are generally supposed to be
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: stronger with earth, et cetera, et cetera. It makes sense
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: that some of these early ahshamon who are really rising
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: out of the woodwork because the world needs them, would
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: have talents manifest and Earth talents would be logical. Also,
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Paren needs that in his army.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: We're talking about the forging Mahalanar. Yes, what the fuck
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: is getting pulled out of Paren?
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: I know, right.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: So wise ones, I need a circle in Nil says urgently.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: And so he gets his circle. He's, you know, poor
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: all of his power. Now he's pouring the power of
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: a circle. It doesn't say exactly how big it was.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: I think it ends up being like six wise ones
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: or something like that. I don't remember.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: It's all the wise ones in Paran's army, I think.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: I think it's the entire contingent of channeling wise ones.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: But there's limits on how biggest circle you can make
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: a circle. I guess with two men you could make
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: a circle.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Of like, yeah, it says all six wise ones had
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: joined in, So yes, it is six and it is
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: the entirety of the population of wise ones he could
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: draw on.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Is that Neiled and Grady? Do you think I think
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: both of them are because you can have two men
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: with that many.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because it has needled fell to his knees, panting.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: Grady and all the women in the circle sat down,
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: looking exhausted. All six wise ones had joined in. So yes,
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: every one of the channelers that was at all in
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: arms reach got summoned into this and circled into this.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: So this weapon forged with both sides of the power. Right,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: most powerful things forged with both sides. But there's something
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: else going on, right, because sparks begin to fly. His
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: parent pounded larger showers. With the each blow. He felt
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: something leaking from him, as if each blow infused the
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: metal with his own strength and also his own feelings,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: both worries and hopes. These flowed from him into the
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: three unwropped pieces. This is what makes mahalan Ar special,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: more so than any other power forwards weapon. Whatever is
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: leaking out of Paren, whether it's tevereenness, whether like the
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: fact that he's got control over Teleeranriod while what is
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: going on? What is leaking out of Parent? He says,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: thoughts and hopes and emotions, right.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: Essence of Hopper, A warter bond with a weapon. That's
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: what Chat is suggesting. I've always kind of figured it
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: was essence of Hopper. That was kind of my back
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: burner head canon. I like the idea of a warter
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: bond against a weapon, and I also thinking of it
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: kind of yes, ding the warter bond concept is what
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: if part of what the channeling was was actually encompassing
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Paren as a person, and it wasn't just channeling directed
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: at the hammer, but like the flows the weaves actually
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: encompassed Paren. I think it has to, yeah, because I
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: always that was a little bit like weird hand waving
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: of Sanders and just like and then Paren was able
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: to upgrade his magic blacksmithing skills this one time. But
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: what if the channeling actually was connecting him to the
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: work in a very like hard magic kind of way,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: And this isn't just like ephemeral hand wavy tavera in
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: Telerenriod It's like, no, there was a free jazz of
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: magic that actually like connected him to the work in
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: a way that is, yeah, maybe adjacent to a Warter
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: bond in some way, but also fueled by the loss
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: of Hopper. Like there is definitely essence of Hopper in this.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: The pain of losing Hopper goes into this and the.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Spirit of Hopper right, like, because yes, Hopper doesn't exist
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: anymore until roundriodd, So what happened to that bit of Hopper? Well,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: maybe he got put put in Mahnar, right.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, if paren holds the memory of Hopper so
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: hard that he makes a legendary weapon that can't be destroyed,
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: that is the foundation of myths forevermore. That means Hopper
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: didn't die because the information that is Hopper, the information
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: of Hopper, is actually persisting even beyond his ultimate deletion
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: from reality, which means, in some strange way, he's actually
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: a mortal like truly, like yeah, you know, I mean
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: like to the degree that like the horn of a lear,
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: you know, like he's tied to this weapon that like
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: will never be destroyed.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like a horn of a lear level forging, right,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: And this is I believe. Word of Sanderson has also
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: said that this is different than the regular power forgs.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: This is not just a power forge weapon, which.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Is thought that was like in the books too.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Oh it might be.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure that, like they discuss it later,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: Like I don't think we're going to be recreating that. Yeah, yeah,
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: pretty sure that's that's discussed in canon.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree because they
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: make all the spearheads for the I eel Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: And they seem to be power forged in the way
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: that har Mark swords are power forged exactly.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: They just don't lose their edge. It's just a plus one.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: It's it's not it's helpful, but it's not uber.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: And they seem to work better against shadow.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Spawn, do they or is that just unique to this hand?
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: I thought that was just unique to the hammer.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: So here's what I'll say. Is Land's Sword and Tom's Knives,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: which we claim are power forged, both give off blue
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: sparks when encountering though and dar blades, and both are
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: more effective against shadow spawn. So I would argue that
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: there's there's a burning sensation to the power up blades
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: that perhaps regular blades don't have something the cause of
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: the blue sparks.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: Kind of like how Iron fucks with the Fey.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, exactly.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: It's one at one of those deals. Okay, yeah, so yeah,
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: it's like his army gets upgraded weapons, but you can
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: only lose so many hoppers.
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: This is the thing too, is a parents' need for
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: this moment, like is a once in a lifetime kind
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: of thing. But the taverit and all that. So yeah,
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: they never even try to recreate this sort of a forging.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: They learn a lot about making power up weapons from this,
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: but they don't attempt to make another magic glowy hammer
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: that like, because his hammer does extra damage to shadows,
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: spond like they like blast away, like that opening scene
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: from Lord of the Rings with Saurron, just like decimating
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: the elves, you know, like that's how powerful this hammer is.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: The hammer that likes. It's hard for them to look
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: at type hammer.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they like burn when it touches them, like
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: it's a whole thing.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: And again, it feels very much like it's it's fulfilling
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: the role of a you know, magical item of mahon
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: Ar in legend, right, this is this idea of the
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: special hammer that can cause extra damage.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and this one is notably not the design of Milner.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: The actual Norse hammer is. One of the things about
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: the myth of Milner is that it has a very
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: short handle. That's like part of like the foundational myth
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: is the thing it was it was Scandinavia. But it's
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: just it's funny to me reading this because it's got
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: a really long handle, and I'm like, that's not accurate
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: as well as I'm a really short handle. It's fine,
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: I don't care.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Listen, Parent is thor with a long handle. That's all
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: I'm saying.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: Put a long handle on his ax.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: He did. Listen, there's a reason the o gear have
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: that expression. Okay, and it's eyebrows and long handles, that's
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: what that's what they go for.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: The ears. Don't forget the ears. And yeah, Parent stylizes
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: the hammer with the wolf, so that way, again like
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: the hopper, can never be forgotten. Even if the translation
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: for the name of he who sores goes away, like,
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: it's still the wolf hammer.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: You know. I love the describing of him imprinting the
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: wolf on the side. Is he took a chisel to
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: a piece of metal and then hammered it into his hammer,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, how long did it take to take
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: a chick to a piece of metal and carve out
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: of a wolf? Right?
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: Like I was thinking that he makes this beautiful stylized
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: stencil thing and then stamps it into them, like this
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: is like an hour's long. Like you making one of
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: those would take all day mm hmm making that kind
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: of a You don't just like whip one of those down,
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: Like even an artisan is gonna take all day to
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: make that kind of a study. He's not just gonna
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: slam out a stencil real quick, deeply unrealistic.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: I would have liked to have seen him be working
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: on like and open the chapter with him carving hoper out.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: What would have been cool, Hey, let's rewrite this instead
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: of the stupid tower scene. Rewrite We're going to change
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: a scene entirely. Let's met it be this one.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: But that's all I think. I would have liked to
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: have seen him, like maybe working on that carving to
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: start the chapter and then incorporating it into the hammer
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: rather than just making it on the spot.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Not knowing what he's gonna use it for, but being
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: unable to stop carving it in perfect loving detail.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Of Yeah, and it has spent all night carving out that,
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: you know, as an ode to Hopper.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that would have been cool. But alast time just
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: just gonna flow weird because he's connected to tell Agrandriod
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: and he can just make time so weird. I think
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: that's gonna have to be my head canon patch.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: He's not doing that yet. Oh, that's the thing is,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: he's not half in, half out yet. He doesn't have
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: that ability. He still has to go to sleep, and
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: he still is entering the world of dreams as a
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: sleeping person rather than in the flesh.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. But yeah, as he finishes up the hammer,
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: he also finishes up whining about how he doesn't want
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: to be a lord. He destroys his old hammer, the
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: hammer of doubt and being a putts on the making
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: of this cool hammer of being a king and awesome.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: And he has this moment where like it's still vibrating
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: and then he touches it and it like quiets dout,
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: like he just bonded with it. They just just it
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: just sealed itself to him. No one else is ever
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: going to be able to pick it up is so.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Cool and yeah, and he's basically thinking this whole time,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: and he's constantly thinking like, well, if I don't lead,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: then somebody bad will lead, and if bad things happen,
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: then it's my fault for not leading. And therefore I
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: want to lead because I think I'm the best person
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: for the job. And so he changes from anger at
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: the death of Hopper to resolution of being a leader,
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: and that sort of transition happens as he's working on
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: this hammer.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the hammer is going to help him defend
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: his people in a kingly way, so it's all quite proper.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: And then yeah, paren and the six Wise Ones and
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: the two Ashaman are all completely exhausted. They are all drained.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: They are limp balloons, like this was a really intense
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: process for all of them. This isn't again, why you
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: can't be doing this for every arrowhead and every belt knife.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: This is a once per epic warrior, per lifetime kind
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: of thing. Imposter syndrome gone didn't even take ten books.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Except is not because the first thing he says is
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: I have failings. You know, I will not be able
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: to chetch protect you all. I will make mistakes that's
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: he doesn't say I'm great, you should follow me. He goes,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: all right, everybody, I suck. Do you want me to
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: lead you?
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: It's it's more like honesty than self deprecation. I mean,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: that's well, that's the transition. Is this whole time he's
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: been like, I'm a horrible leader because I can't protect
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: you all, and now he's saying, I'm a realistic leader.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: I can't protect you all. It's yes, but it's a reframe,
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: you know. And technically it did take ten books because
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: we're on book thirteen. I guess he didn't start wrestling
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: with it until like book four, so I guess technically
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: it is less than ten books.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, he wasn't really a leader till he can't be.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: No one wanted him to lead until book four.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Except like a GWayne when they washed up on shore.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Well that was just because she wanted to tell him
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: he was wrong. Yeah, okay, yeah, I wog you were
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: caring for the end of book four. Yeah that makes sense. Yeah.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: So yeah, then paren asks for the banner that he
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: ordered destroyed and says, so, so did taverin let you
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: destroy all my banners? And will all scenes like no no,
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: I'm Tavern's boo and Paren's like, good, excellent, I'm just made.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Barn's bitch.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: I was just relisting at dunch of Girl and Carl
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: and it's like, you're in my bitch now because I
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: saved you. So they've got the banner. They've got a
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: parent banner, the one that will helped sew because again,
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: remember there are no sewing machines in this world, so
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: everything that is sown is sewn by hand. And yeah,
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: he kept the one that he helped sew. And Parent says,
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: I can now kill shadow spawn with proper style now
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: that I have my hammer and my banner hammer banner, and.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yelled it just well, it was like I said,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: it just felt right. I saw what to do, how
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: you put the weaves into, how to put the weaves
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: into the metal itself. It seemed to draw them in
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: like an ocean drinking the water of a stream.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: He was just in the groove. He was free jazzing
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: and the jam just hit and it was good and
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: everyone could hear it.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: He's talented capital.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: T he who sores mahalanaar.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he wants to give hop a good approximation of
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: Hopper's name in the old tongue, and Berylaine, handy bitch
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: that she is is the one with the best formal
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: education to put together the phrase that best captures he
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: who soars.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: That makes sense, She's got the old the You know,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: she took Latin in high school, right like.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: She took extra Latin in high school. She took more
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: than the required amount.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: So with the finishing of Mahanar, we go on to
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: the ambush.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we sort of skip twenty minutes, but then we're
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: still on the same trajectory of Paren deciding that he's
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: going to save the White Cloaks rather than leave them
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: to be chewed up in a trapman for him, which
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: he could have done quite easily.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: And so then the rest of this chapter is this
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: will he won't he thing about is he attacking the
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: White Cloaks, except.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: That he's not waffling for once. Paren isn't the.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: Waffle waffling one, And Beryline's like, don't kill Colin. I
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: think he's really hot, right like, And meanwhile, there's a
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: whole conversation between Fayel and Berlaine where she's like, you
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: don't know him. He would never attack the White Cloaks.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know who's attacking. I don't know who he's
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: posting up for, but it's not the White Cloaks, And
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Berlin's like, there's nobody else here. It's a perfect attack.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: It's a perfect excuse to not have to deal with
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: this trial. He's like, if we both survive the last battle,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: you can you know, punish me. Well, guess what, You're
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: not going to survive the last battle. And that's the
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: way her mind works, which is this very machiavellian do
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: it by the word of law and parent just that
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: thought would never occur to him, and fayl knows it.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: And it's why Fayale's a better wife than.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: Beryline, absolutely, And I like too that Berylaine is not
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: being unrealistic in terms of looking at it, like this
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: is not her being silly or blinded by something or arrogant,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Like she's doing the math and saying the equation only
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: balances one way. I don't know what the fuck else
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: I'm supposed to think right now. Also, the pattern is
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: making me really really.
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: Horny for that guy, so like, and I like that
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: Fayelle trusts or knows Beryline enough to actually start questioning
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: paren right at the end, like Berriline's really worried about this,
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: like to the point that it's rubbing off on me.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: Like, I feel like that speaks not so much to
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Fayo's relationship to parent, but Fayo's relationship to Beryline. That
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: she's like, no, you're like actually worried, Like it's making
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: me anxious. My like reluctant friendship has blossomed to the
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: point that like kind of worried for you. And of
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: course she's right when she looks at parents, she says
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: parent would never But Beryline is so anxious, like this
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: isn't political anxiety, this is like a deep existential anxiety.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: And feel's like, girl, seriously, calm down.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: You just said he's gonna be a leader. Follow right, right, right.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: But again, like Berline's biological clock slash, the pattern has
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: got her all needing a lot.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say, the pattern doesn't have to
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: do a lot of work to take two very attractive
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: people and make them fall in love with each other.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: No, No, it's it's where we get fairytale romance from.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: They both know how hot they are. They're not settling
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: for anybody who's not who's less attractive.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, Plus they both need someone with political power
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: and financial resources and connections to the rich and powerful.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: So very interesting to have. Mister does the right thing
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: with missus Machiavellian.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, once they figure out their shared moral compass,
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: they're going to be unstoppable.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're just gonna have to have a few fights
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: about it first, maybe one or two accidental murders.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: Man talk about Neville baby, their kids are going to
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: be gorgeous or ugly, like, that'll be the one.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: Like, and this is where the hunchback of not Tredam
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: came from.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: Right, Like, they're both gorgeous. But you know, like sometimes
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: people who are really attractive can actually be a little
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: odd looking, and it's just like their features work really
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: well for them.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Beautiful people are often not normal looking. I don't know
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: how to describe that.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: No, there's a distinct thing about too much symmetry is bad.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: This is why beauty marks are a thing. You have
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: to bring asymmetry onto the face in order to look
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: properly pretty. And yeah, sometimes features that work on one
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: face do not work the same on another face, and
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: it has as much to do with personality and bearing
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: as anything else. But yeah, we can't all be till
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: to swindon. It's just it's a thing.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: I love this moment where fighty turns to Caroline and
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: goes not very good at picking man, are you Berlaine?
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: I realized, which like, again, that's a level of girl
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: honesty that I'm like, I think fight Yo's starting to
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: actually like Berlin because she wouldn't have said something so honest,
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: like helpful.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: I think that's one thing about them is like they
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: would be really good friends if they weren't both fighting
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: over parent.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: Which is why men had the vision of him having
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: both the birds of Prey person to his shoulders, because
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: this could have been the most amazing power Thrupple. Mean, hell,
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: they could have just been Platon my friends with Berline
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: and just watched her and given her advice on having
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: chitty taste, and it could have been great. They should
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: have been friends. They're so well set up to be friends,
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: and they've been putting the hours in at this point
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: to pretend to be friends to the point that it's
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: starting to rub off into reality enemies to friends.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: We love to see it, and we sort of get
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: a little bit. This is the first time we really
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: get barellans pov about why she's been pursuing parent for
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: so long. Right, this whole I was promised him right
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: the I went. And we can go back to that
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: moment right when Grand terrified her. I don't think he
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: promised shit.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: I don't think, but she's basically hers are warped.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: Way out there from no basis in reality, but this
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: idea that, oh, well, I can't be with Rand, therefore
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: he wants me to be with one of his generals
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: because he didn't because in his Rand way, he didn't
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: quite reject her outright in a way that she could
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: read as I don't want because he wants an alliance
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: with her, he wants her to be friends. He didn't
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: want her, you know, he wanted her as an ally,
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: but he didn't necessarily want her his wife. And she
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: interprets that as, oh, well, then I need to marry
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: one of your generals or one of your close friends.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: Right yeah, And she has told herself that rational so
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: many times at her own memories have rewritten themselves to say, well, no,
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: that was obviously how that conversation went, And I'm like, no,
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: I have reread the books, and the books don't change
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: like memories do. He never intended to promise you anything.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: You did not have that interpretation walking out of that
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: room that night. This is something you have made up
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: to make sense of that night. In the intervening what
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: year since that event happened?
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: And I can see where the worry comes from, where
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: they're worried about the White Cloaks, Like he has made
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: this monumentous decision that I am going to lead you now,
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: and you can be like, oh, okay, he's decided to
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: make decisions that he otherwise would not have.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: No, the equation only balances one way. The fact that
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: he's not sharing his belief that an evil army is
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: going to pop out of those ruins is the entire
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: reason why we have pages of this.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I'm glad it doesn't last more
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: than a chapter. Absolutely, it's brought up and it's resolved
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: within this chapter. But yeah, I do find that whole
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: pearl grasping. Is he going to killed the white Cloaks?
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: It's like no, no, there's trolks coming.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I will say that like, yes, on the
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: one hand, saving the white Cloaks is silly. But on
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: the other hand, having this army of trolks just rampaging
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: in the countryside is not great, and the white Cloaks
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: would not have effectively neutralized them, So it does behoove
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: Parent to deal with them. And if that means saving
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: the white Cloaks, fine whatever, Right.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: That's kind of how I feel about it is the
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: white Cloaks are a fine bait in the trap that
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: Parent is setting up for the Trolics. But as far
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: as I'm concerned, they're bait.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: They're just yeah, yeah, And it's like, yeah, they were
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: not going to take those trollocks down. It was not
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: going to be a two equal forces neutralizing each other.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: They would have gotten stopped and then the Trluks would
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: have just rampaged behind enemy lines.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: And I think even Glaude realizes that by the end.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: He's like, oh my god, we are so ineffective as
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: a force, like we are not protected by the light.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, Glad's chagrin at being abandoned by his view
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: of the world is delicious.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: Anything left on that fy Lpov, I.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: Think just it's funny to see her pivoting that silly
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: logic from Paren. Oh I got to marry Parent. This
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: is why I'm going after goalud, right, She's it can't
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: just because he's hot, No, it's got it. No, it's
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: for political reasons. Definitely. This is me settling for a
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: cookie when I can't have a cake. That's definitely what's
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: going on, instead of her seeing like an entire confectionery
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: shop spread out, and that's what she's actually going for.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: But it is one of those things where you see
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: someone attractive, you realize they're available, you realize they're your type,
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: you realize, oh, they're politically a good match, and she's like,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: everything's lining up for her at this point, right, other
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: than the fact that he's about to get wiped out
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: by Parent.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Right, right, she can get over that one little problem.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: Little problem, you know, he's actually a really good match
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: for her, and she sees that she's politically astute enough.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Half brother to the Queen of Andor. That's
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: not small potatoes.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: And the leader of the White Cloaks, right. That is
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: that he has his own army.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: And she is a nation who could use an infusion
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: of militaristic strength, like I mean, mayn could use a
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: standing army that has more oomph behind it, Like if
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: she can defang and retool the White Cloaks to make
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: her dependence on Tyr a little bit less predatory, that
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: it'd be pretty cool.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Are the white Cloks going to end up in
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: Mayn as opposed to Altara? Right? Is Altara going to
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: become its own nation again? Amadisia Amidicia? Sorry?
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally exactly? Is Aleandra not Aleandra? Whoever know that
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: guy died? Yeah? What's gonna happen to Amadisia if the
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: White Cloaks are gone and then the shan Chan get
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: kicked out and the White Cloaks are like, now we
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: like Mayan better?
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: I guess at this point it's just under the shan
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: Chan rule and they're not going anywhere anytime soon.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess is that part of the territory that
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: ran seeds to them?
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Because yes, it has to be, because they're in
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: They took it white because they Yeah, we saw them
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: beat back the White Cloaks and take over the nation.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was when We're g was there. She bounced
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: out during the White or shortly after the shawn.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: Chan showed up and the Dragon's pieces they get to
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: keep land, right.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: So yeah, they get to keep all the land that
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: they've grabbed her. So yeah, Amaditia is gonna be a
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: fourth age problem. So yeah, the White Cloaks don't have
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: a home. We're looking for somewhere to go.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: Man seems like a good place.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: Man needs them in a way that most nations don't
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: need an army like that to move in and set
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: up shop, you know.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: And not to mention, it's a much smaller army.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: Now, much smaller, much smaller.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: Especially after the last battle. Jesus, I don't know if anybody.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: It's gonna be a goalt And like three guys, the
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: White Cloaks is now the honor guard of the Queen
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: of Man basically first of Man. Sorry, but yeah, that
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: is all I've got on that POV. We can snap
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: over to Perrien, who's feeling very unified as a leader,
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: as a person, as an army.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: And so Elias comes up his therapist, I mean friend.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, basically who's.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: Been hunting at night? It's catching rabbits at night, which
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: made me kind of roll my eyes.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: Because they're crepuscular animals.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: They're in their dens at night. You don't hunt rabbits
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: at night because it's hard you hunt. You hunt rabbits,
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: you know, on the rabbits at night because they're in
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: a burrow asleep underground.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: Well maybe he's got a sense for when people are
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: having when rabbits are having their watership down moment and
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: they're making their overland trek to try to find a
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: new part. He just has a vibe for that.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry Elias had done hunting while I waited for
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: the army. Rather, it took quite a keen hunter to
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: catch rabbits at night. Yeah, yeah, but it does.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you dig out their warren, I guess
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: it's not that hard. Yeah. No, that's I did not
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: quite catch that. I should have caught that. But yeah,
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: that's a little Land sharpened his power rot sword or
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: paren made a stencil and stamp and applied it to
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: his hammer in the middle of the forging process, a
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: real quick five minute process.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just the Sanderson detail. It's just not polished
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: in the same way that Jordan was so good a
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: polishing every little detail to make it seem correct and relevant.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: Sanderson puts the details in there, but they don't have
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: the same life and backing.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: To them yeah. I mean, Jordan definitely got some things wrong,
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: but it's okay. But Sanderson is really good at wrapping
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: up everything into a nice, pithy little moment, which he
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: does here with Paren telling Elias you told me if
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: I ever grew to like the ax, I should throw
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: it away. I think it applies to leadership too. The
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: men who don't want titles should be the ones who
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: get them. It's like, yes, And also, my nose, it
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: has been hit quite thoroughly at this point. You know,
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: it's just you just you hit that on the nose
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: so hard my eyes are watering.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: Ooh, you made a good point. This is like our
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: jan and the Joe buggling skill that we complained about. Yeah.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sewing and juggling are two things that you and
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: I both have experienced with where it's like, I don't
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: think that's how that works. I did it for the plot, yeah,
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: which I really don't want to forgive Jordan for that.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: Given how much time he spent describing clothes, it would
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: have been nice if he'd spent any amount of time
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: thinking about how those clothes were made. Whatever.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: Well, you can't just order a seamstress to make you
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: twenty dresses overnight.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, actually, you can do some amazing things with enough
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: hands in a short period of time, but there are limits,
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: particularly when you don't have sewing machines or electric light.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: Power ought light not common enough, not for seamstresses. No.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Also, he mentioned a weaver like twice in the whole series,
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: which technically is more than most industries get mentioned. But
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: he literally only mentions weaving and fabric like a handful
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: of times. And yeah, fabric's actually like a really really huge,
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: much part of a civilizational output.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't think I realized how much time was
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: spent on weaving and clothing. I think as farmers, I
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: knew we concentrated as a people, like most of our
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: time was spent on food, but I didn't realize that,
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: like really food and clothing, Like there's a reason the
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: three things food, shelter, and clothing, those are the three
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: necessities that we spent. Like, you have to build a house,
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: and other than that, once you had a home, you
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: had to spend your time either producing food or producing
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: clothing because both were incredibly time consuming and incredibly necessary
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: to survive.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, fabric. The drive to make thread and fabric
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: drove the Industrial.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: Revolution computing like computing, right is totally.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we've talked about this. It's a whole thing. And
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: with how much Jordan spent talking about clothes, I would
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: have appreciated a little bit more of him talking about
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: the pre industrial revolution or post apocalyptic shrinking industrial revolution
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: relevant necessary to just have all this fabric.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: Because he talks about the production of the raw material right,
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: two rivers wool, some of the best wool around, and
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: then talks about.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: The final product, importing silk.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, importing silk right.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: From Shara, Like. He talks about that a lot.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: But at no point doesn't really talk about how those
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: raw materials are made into fabrics.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Are there power looms? Do we have? Like some
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: kind of I mean, that would have been a great
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: thing to have at one of ranch schools, right, someone
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: figuring out a power loom would have been a really
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: cool thing to have for him to have on the side, Like, Oh,
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: this would change the entire industry of you know, this
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: country or whatever. Yeah, to say nothing of sewing, to
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: say nothing of cutting, right, I mean, the concept of
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: cutting fabric is something that people tried very hard to
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: avoid when you had to do all your sewing by hand.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: A lot of older clothing, like going back into like
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: the dawn of clothing. It's just how do we make
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: rectangles work? Because if you cut the threads, how are
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: you gonna keep them from unraveling. That's a lot of
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: time and energy. If you even have needle and thread
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: that are of a quick it's a whole. So a
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: lot of like clothing up through the Middle Ages is
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: squares and rectangles, and maybe you cut a hole for
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: the head, but like it's a lot of squares and rectangles.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: The concept of just just cutting fabric, it makes very
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: different sense in the world where you don't have sewing
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: machines anyway, not relevant to all of this. Blacksmith Shenanigan ree,
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Alias is leaving. That's why Elias is here
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: is he's come up to pair in to say, hey, buddy,
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: things are cool. You seem like a king. Now I
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: need to go run north with all the other wolves
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: to do the wolfy last hunt thing. We'll see you
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: next with rotal Eie Tiralda.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: I was like, I barely even remember what Alias ends
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: up doing during the last battle.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he shows up at the last minute as Eye
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: Talda is desper trying to keep from giving an order
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: that he knows is wrong, because he's strong willed enough
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: to realize he's been compelled, and he's like clenching his
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: teeth and like trying very hard not to get this order.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: And then he sees this ragged man with a whole
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: bunch of wolves come running at him, and all he
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: feels is relief as the man pulls out one long
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: knife and lunges for him, and he's just like, thank God,
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: someone got to me before I was able to give
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: the order. So it's obviously Elias. He probably is running
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: with a pack of like fifty and somehow or other,
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know how they figure out that that guy
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: is compromised and needs to be taken down, and he
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: doesn't get killed. Elias manages to capture him. But still,
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: I believe that is the next time we see Elias
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: is running at Eyeralda mid or near the end of
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: the last battle. Actually, maybe there's a scene in between
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: here and there, but that's the next notable thing he does.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: Uh Yeah, Encyclopedia Watt doesn't have him in anything after
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: this chapter because they don't always get the last book right. Oh.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: The reason Elias knows is because Parent tells him in
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: the dream.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: How does he tell him? Oh? Through the dream?
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Parents speaks to him as long tooth until run
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: real and ask them to pass his message that the
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: Great Captains are being controlled by Grendel, right right, because.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: Parent is really leveling up his dream skills, and so
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: even someone who's reluctant about it like Elias is going
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: to be reachable.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: And so that's why Elias knew. Parent told him.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: Right, And that's how no one else knew that Elias
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: was coming for Icealda because that was a dream dm
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: between the two wolf boys.
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: That's awesome. We we get this line he'd found his balance.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: He would never become like Gnome, the man who had
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: lost himself to the wolf. But we saw that earlier, right,
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: Like he is already he found that balance a couple
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: of chapters ago, if I'm remembering correctly.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but this is kind of that realization, like propagating
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: all the way out to his leadership status. I feel
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: like it's just like, oh, yeah, that thing where I'm
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: not going to become like Gnome, like that also applies
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: to my leadership. I'm not going to become a despot.
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to lose myself to the wolf finess
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: of being a king or whatever the beast of being
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: a king, which then makes me feel like we didn't
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: need to go find no later, given that he's literally
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: thinking that here and now feels like that scene with
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: Boundless later is gonna be unnecessary.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, hasn't that scene already happened?
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: Because how else could he have found his balance before
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: that scene?
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: But we haven't podcasted through it yet, So does it
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: mean we have more waffling? Is this not the end
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: of the waffling?
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's in the eplog.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: We have one more little ps moment of self doubt.
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: Really Oh yeah, yeah.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: That's crazy. Yeah, he's like he's found his balance. Then
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: there's the whole thing with the the encounter in the
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: epilog he deals with him again.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: Well, that's a bit of a fail on my part
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: in my opinion.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there's a moment where he says, this
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: was the balance in the epilog, this was the balance
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: for Boundless, different from the balance for a lot, and
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: different from what paren had found. He understood. This did
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: not mean the way he let himself lose control, was
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: not a danger, was the final piece he needed to
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: understand the final piece of himself. So he doesn't find
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: the balance again through Gnome. He just understands a little
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: bit better about GNOME's balance. Why he ended up the
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: way he did.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, And I was kind of just reading what
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: comes right before that, and it's triggered by him trying
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: to remake Hopper. It's really about him processing his pin
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: from Hopper's death. It's not about him and his leadership
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: and his balance of the wolf inside. It's him going
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: through one last paroxysm of grief over Hopper and being like, wait,
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: Hopper's last message to me doesn't make any sense, So
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: resolving that question, that's more about Hopper than it is
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: about him waffling. Okay, all right, cool, we're good. We're good,
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: We're safe. I'm okay with that being a reason to
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: revisit Boundless because Hopper's death is still a thing we're
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: processing despite the making of the hammer that question. All right, cool,
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: we're good, Stand down, battle stations, stand down.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: And the next bit the truth is out there, right.
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: His men know what he is and what his powers are,
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: and they like that better than speculating, like, oh yeah,
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: there's all sorts of people with add powers popping up,
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: Like you're not any that you're not different. Like we're
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: following the dragon reborn, might as well follow a wolf brother, right,
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: Like it's the.
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: End of the world where wolf is the least of
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: our concern, right, Yeah, And he kind of lets go
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: of aarm here too. He has one last thought about
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: Aaron that like, the symbol and the man are two
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: different things, and if someone gets too invested in the
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: symbol and the symbol lets them down, they will completely
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: be destroyed. And like there's a lot of lessons to
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: unpack in that. But he's right, and it's I mean again,
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm glad that he's moving on from stuff,
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: but also I'm like, you should have been more upset
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: about this for longer. I don't know if you're I
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: don't know if I think that you've earned moving on
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: from this yet, right, right, right, right, We.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: Have to assume there's been a lot of offscreen thought
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: about Aaron. Yeah, but we definitely when Aaron was killed,
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: he moved I mean, he's in the middle of a battle,
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: but he just moved right past that he's like, why
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: they tried to kill me and he got shot? Oh
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: well I was fine.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: In the battle, but I needed more ANNGST after the battle.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: But also, yeah, I'm just going to assume there was
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: a lot of brooding that I would have not wanted
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: to see on page that did happen, and so he
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: has earned this resolution just.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: At I feel like it needed more reflection, right. The
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: problem Aaron's death didn't mean anything to parent in his
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: journey in a way that it should have. It should
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: have been part of his reasons why he doesn't want
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: to be a leader.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, Aaron's face is always haunting him every time
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: he thinks about taking leadership.
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: He just exactly face exactly, and there's none of that.
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: There's none that reflection on how he failed Aaron, which
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: always felt a little bad to me because it was
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: this responsibility that he took on who got corrupted. And
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, I know that was by the prophet,
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: but like you introduced him to the prophet and then
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: you did nothing while he's corrupted and listen to the
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: Manosphere podcast, I mean the.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: Prophet, Yeah, definitely definitely.
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: Got why oh what the fuck is his name? The
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: terrible influencer who's like what Andrew Tate? Yeah, well I
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: totally see the prophet Messima and Andrew Tate, Like same
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: fucking person.
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Masteema Tate, Messima Tate.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just out there lying about stuff for power.
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: Just looking like a weird little gremlin who thinks he
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: should be in charge just by being a nasty, weird
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: little guy. That's just not Why would anyone want to
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: be around you creep.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: That influences people to do things that they should do
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: and adds that corruption. And the only way to deal
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: with them is to put them, as you know, cannon
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: fodder and wipe them out at the beginning, at the
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: front of a war.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because otherwise they'll just entrap a bunch of young
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: people into really toxic behavior that destroys their relationships with
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: their families and their futures and just generally erodes at
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: the fabric of society in every possible way.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, real wood analogy there.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: No, No, We've never made real world analogies with this podcast.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: The people who listen to this have no idea what
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: our political opinions and takes are.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: Bouji says. At least Massimi didn't engage in sex traffic.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: As far as we know, there was rapes a plenty,
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: tons of rapes in his army. He himself wasn't actually
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: fucking people, but his army was.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was too devoted to evil to make that
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: a big part of what he was doing on the debt.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: No, his army was full of assault, and they were
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: undoubtedly just taking whatever they wanted from whoever they wanted
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: in every possible way. But yet maybe not trafficking like
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: in an economic sense, because he did not have that
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: kind of I mean, he wasn't like a drug lord, right,
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: Like Messima just was a plague of locusts.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: He was a force of nature more than infrastructure.
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: He was modeled off a different kind of cult leader. Right.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: The andrew Tates have but a lot of these old
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: cult leaders. Right. They preached piety and abstinence, but then
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: they had a harem.
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, No, It's it's hard to believe that Massima
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: was not doing as much assaulting as everyone else, aside
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: from the fact that he just seemed really beyond single
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: minded focused on what he was doing.
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: And possibly some compulsion in there as.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: Well, right, Right, So like uniquely not like de sexualized
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: almost right.
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: Right in a way that he was too fanatic to
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: care about the worldly things like sex and food, and
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: like there was that like model of him being so
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: burned away by the fanaticism. He didn't really care about
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: worldly pleasures.
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but he also didn't care to He claimed to like,
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: you know what, chop off men's hands if they touched
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: women inappropriately. But like it's a raving mob being held
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: together with like spit and rage. Like he's not disciplining
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: anyone like that.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: No, I mean, I'm sure if he saw it, he
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: would discipline them, but it's you know.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: On the spot for as long as his attention span lasted.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: But yeah, no massive international secret sex trafficking negging empire. No,
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: he didn't do that. He just plague of locust everywhere
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: and didn't care who his steamrolled. Different different era of
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: could leader. God, what a concept.
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: He's much more in the like David Koresh, you know,
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: eighties nineties cult leader.
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: Which makes sense given who Jordan would have been looking
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: around at for inspiration.
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: But I'm sure if he's writing these today, we would
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: see a much more Andrew Tait personality.
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, absolutely, because yeah, I mean he's looking around
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: at the world saying, who am I analogizing?
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: And that takes me to gallads pov.
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah Gallad kind of his actual nay dear more so
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: than when he got taken by the questioners and thought
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: he was going to die. This is when even his
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: allies are seriously questioning his judgment. He's questioning his judgment,
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: he's figuring out how he wants to die, like this
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: is kind of the lowest that he ever gets.
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: Well, and it's also a Buyer being particularly fanatic and crazy.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: They like you killed this all and like, Buyer's really
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: on the going off the deep end.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: With paren Yeah yeah again, kind of like how Beryline
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: is so upset that it's tarting to rub off on Fayel,
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: Like a Buyer is so upset that it's even rubbing
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: off on Galade, even though again it's power induced and
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: all that. But you know, Buyer's single driving compulsion mission
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: is to get to parent and stab him. He can't
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: do that if he dies. Therefore anger at the man
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: who's going to get him killed before he's within arm's
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: reach of a barra.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: But really the nice thing about this is that he's
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: getting his people ready for when the Tralk's attack. Right,
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: He's waking them up. They're putting on their armor. They're
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: a little more prepared for when the Talks attack. I
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: don't think Parent's necessarily trying to hide from the white cloaks.
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was wondering about that. Why the white Cloaks
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: were able to spot Paren because I figured, you know,
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: but no, Paren just being like, no, don't even bother hiding.
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: I want them to notice us and make appropriate preparations.
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: I could totally see that being his thing. I mean,
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: he doesn't actually tell anyone what he's doing at this point,
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: but I could see that being the logic in his head.
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: It's like no, no, no, no, no, let them see us coming.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: They will know that it's a battle, is about to engage,
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: and they should probably armor up.
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: I also like a Colleg's argument with Buyer where he's
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: like Biers saying, well, we should have attacked them, and
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: he's saying they would have murdered us. He has, I said,
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: I man, who can channel more soldiers than us and
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: powers we don't understand, And Mooment it's like, yes, you're
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: a terrible force. You're weak, right, Like you're getting that
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: and then Buyer's response, well, the light would have protected us,
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: and then golled, well, if that's true, it's gonna protect
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: us now as well, Mike, I love that lock. Yeah,
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: my drop. Now it's not it wouldn't have protected you
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: in either situation because you're just a bunch of fucking
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: terrible soldiers.
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: But but this is what I want from people, is
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: internal consistency. If you were gonna make your entire personality
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: this asshole cosmology and make it my problem, I'm gonna
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: need you to have the bear there is fucking modicum
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: of respect for yourself and be consistent to your own cosmology.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: That's all I'm asking. And yeah, Galad is saying if
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: that is true, if we accept your ridiculous premise is true,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: then we can also accept it as true in this
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: other situation, dumb ass.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: And so then he's like, Okay, let's get some shields
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: because we're about to get rained on by arrows because
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: he thinks parents coming after him, and he's like the
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: shields will help a little. It's like, no, not really,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: not from two river bows.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing. Is shield walls work unless it's
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: the English long bowman. I mean two rivers bowmen. Yeah,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: that's that is the stick.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: And yeah, power scaling, right, They're just they're incompetent soldiers,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: that's all they are.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: As Voujie says, they have no main characters in their
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: party and that's why they're not scaling up with everyone else.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: Galad just isn't quite cutting it.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: It's that and their insistence to be anti channeler.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah that too. That too. It's hard to participate in
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: World War two if you refuse to use guns.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: No, Mike, cavalry charge will work against the machine guns
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: every single time.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: Sure, everybuddy, you and your sword could let me know how.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: That goes you You and wear them on man.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, technically that's World War One.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: But yeah, well, I mean, and there is a lot
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: of World War One parallels, right, this transition from a
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: pre industrial to post industrial warfare.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I really shouldn't make the World War two comparisons.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: It's a more of a World War One comparison.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: You're right.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So last pov. Yeah, because of the will they
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: won't they flipping and flopping. You've got to escalate the tension.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: But last POV of the chapter, and we're with Fayel
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: watching everything happen.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, basically she's watching Paren, right, so it's even it's
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: a POV, it's really about parent.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's about parent, but it's from Faiyo's POV. And yeah,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: parent's you know, trying to negotiate with the women to
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: not be in the line of fire, please and thank you.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: They see the white cloaks preparing for battle. Parent gets
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: the archers ready and he's this is the moment where
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: he says he's still wasn't looking at the white cloaks
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: below them. He was staring at the riverbed on the
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: other side, perhaps one hundred of y yards or so,
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: beyond the heights. That's where the ruins are well.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: And before that, the clouds were thin, allowing pale moonlight
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: to coat the land in silvery white. A low fog
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: was rolling in, staying mainly in the riverbed, deep and thick.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: I'm like, hey, mourin in ayea, the world using the
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: riverbed to be full of fog. I know how this goes.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: Who's doing the channeling male dreadlords? I think because the
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: Oshamont are the ones that say I feel channeling mm hmm.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: And we know that the Black Tower is already cranking
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: out dread Lords at this point, right.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: One would assume, I mean, they'd have to be under Grendel.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean Grendel is the one driving this. Oh oh,
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: you mean because she's the one driving.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: Because she's the one driving this. Right, So it's just
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: one of those situations where we never really get a
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: resolution on some guy being like, oh, yeah, I was,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: I was portling in the trolks Ford all like nobody's
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: it's just shadows. The shadow has access to channelers. I
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: guess who can use the portal stones.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: I guess yeah, I mean at maybe a Taame is
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: just kind of producing turned Ashamon at this point, and
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: it's just like there's a stockpile that Grandal can reach
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: into and like grab one or three here Huferman she has.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: But at no point does that person participate in the battle.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: Do we get an include to their identity? Do they
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: you know, there's nothing like that.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: I wonder if Sanderson forgot that men can't feel women's channeling,
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: and it was actually supposed to be grand All doing
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: the channeling, and you should have had a wise one
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: point out that it was maybe you know, or maybe
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: it was just a matter of that channeler was told
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: to retreat rather than spend them, but like, she throws
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: everything at this attack. So like you'd think that that
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: channeler would have come through at the last and started
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: blasting people with fireballs. Oh maybe a male red veiled
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: I yell. But still you'd think that they would have
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: come out of the woodwork and like started slashing people.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: The fact that we never see one makes me think
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: that Sanderson actually intended it to be grandall. And then
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: I had the wrong channeler identify her.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: I have no idea. That's one of those ones where
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: there's just no clues to who this person is, and
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: I'm no clues to who I don't have any clue
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: as to who Sanderson thought it would be other than
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: being like, Okay, the shadow just has access to male
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: and female channelers.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: Now moving on, Yeah, that was kind of how I
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: imagined it, But again, the level of detail Jordan would
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: never Jordan would never have let this be on. Answer
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: this to juicy of a channeler to not give some
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: context too, Lisa. So, yeah, they're looking at this mysterious
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: magical fog and Paren finally realizes that everyone thinks he's
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: a bloodthirsty murderer. And he's like, what is wrong with
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: you people, I'm here to save the guy.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: Obviously, obviously do you not see her? I see Everyone's like, no, now,
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: we didn't see any.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: Of it, and uh yeah. They blast open some light
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: across the battlefield and paren says, all right, guys, here's
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: a training run for the last battle.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: Have let's send those shadows bond back to the pit
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: that birthed them.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: Grind on some XP Yeah, yeah.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: No, it definitely feels like a little bit of a
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: dress rehearsal for the last battle.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's got to, you know, get his hammer
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: all fired.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: Up, you know, right, you gotta use it.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I gotta get that wetted in blood. And the
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: battle scene from Galad's POV when we get there is
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: pretty epic, like ye ep, army just they're rolling that
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: twenties the whole way through the battle and it looks cool.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: And it's a little bit about the situation they're in, right,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: the fact that he put them up on the heights
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: where they have the advantage, where they are riding down
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: onto the trollocks, firing down onto the trollics, channeling down
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: onto the trollucks.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: But like none of the horses trip as they run
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: down the hills.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, like, there's just tivers going on. For sure, epic.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: Because it's a prelude to the last battle. Sanderson's going
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: to say, now, copy and paste that over and over
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: and over again to understand the last battle. Right, He's
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: giving us a microcosm. But we will get there in
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: uh next week. I wasn't sure if we were like
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: hopping to a different thing. But no, next week, next
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: weekend cool cool cool.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: But I felt like this was enough of a chapter
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: with the forging povs. I didn't want to try and
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: tackle another chapter and do the battle on top of this.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: Very It's also a pretty beefy chapter.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: The forging all in your deserved its own.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: It deserves its own, and there's a lot of It's
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: not just the forging, because it's also the resolution to
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: Parent's leadership crisis.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: The forging of Parent and his hand right.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: I really like that chapter. It's one of I think
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: Sanderson's better chapters, despite maybe the way I was talking
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: about it earlier, but it really is. It's a it's
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: a I like the way Sanderson resolves things that Jordan
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: set up. I like wh and get.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: Resolution yeah, yeah, it rules.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: And on that it's the end of the episode.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: By thank you for listening to the Wheel of Time
• 1:07:34
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• 1:07:37
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• 1:07:42
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• 1:07:45
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