Latest / The Active Duty Passive Income Podcast / He Walked Away at 12 Years… Because the “Safe Path” Was a Trap

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He Walked Away at 12 Years… Because the “Safe Path” Was a Trap · The Active Duty Passive Income Podcast

• 0:00
  Mike Goering: just my single house, the first one I bought.
• 0:04
  Mike Goering: Almost by itself put me above the median end, like net worth for somebody my age, like that one house.
• 0:10
  Mike Goering: I don't feel a connection to my iPhone because I own Apple stock.
• 0:14
  Mike Goering: But when I own an apartment, I feel a connection.
• 0:17
  Mike Goering: I'm making about 500 more in equity pay down.
• 0:20
  Mike Goering: It's money I can't touch today, but it's money that's gonna be there in the future.
• 0:24
  Speaker: The military taught us discipline.
• 0:26
  Speaker: It taught us leadership, but it never taught us how to really build wealth and income.
• 0:32
  Speaker: This is the Active Duty Passive Income podcast, and I'm your host, Marcion Sitch, a United States Marine, turned full-time real estate investor in educator.
• 0:41
  Speaker: I'm bringing you the most successful military veteran and military spouse, real estate investors, entrepreneurs, and industry experts to break down exactly how they did it.
• 0:51
  Speaker: So you can too.
• 0:54
  Markian Sich: A DP, I guess what,
• 0:55
  Mike Goering: I guess
• 0:55
  Markian Sich: yet another hero episode.
• 0:58
  Markian Sich: And, um, if you've been listening, uh, lately, you've probably noticed that we've been bringing on some of our, I I I, I don't even wanna call it students because you guys have outshined everything I've done and it's incredible and I, and I, and we're bringing on what we loving call our heroes, right?
• 1:14
  Markian Sich: The, the, those that are coming back to pay it forward and teach future generations of military entrepreneurs and real estate investors.
• 1:20
  Markian Sich: And I, I, I can't wait to really dive into this story because honestly, Mike, I feel like I know you a little bit, even maybe less than I'd like to.
• 1:30
  Markian Sich: Um, you're, you're, you're, you're, um.
• 1:33
  Markian Sich: You're not as, like, you haven't been here since maybe like Tim, uh, crams for example, or Seneca, but you're also not new and you've already provided a ton of feedback, a ton of improvement to how we teach the military community.
• 1:47
  Markian Sich: So I'm just excited to get into your story.
• 1:48
  Markian Sich: I wanna know what made Mike, Mike, and, um, so welcome aboard y'all.
• 1:54
  Markian Sich: If you're listening, like you're in for a treat, we're gonna talk about really somebody's journey, right?
• 1:58
  Markian Sich: So if you're, if you're looking to resonate or you're looking to see if this is for you, I think one of the best things you can do is listen to another person's journey and see how they did what they did.
• 2:08
  Markian Sich: So, welcome aboard.
• 2:09
  Markian Sich: Please kind of like do your own little introduction.
• 2:12
  Markian Sich: Let give us a 32nd snapshot and we're gonna dive right into your story, man.
• 2:16
  Markian Sich: Thank you for coming.
• 2:18
  Mike Goering: That was a very gracious, uh, introduction.
• 2:20
  Mike Goering: I appreciate that.
• 2:21
  Mike Goering: Thanks.
• 2:22
  Markian Sich: Absolutely.
• 2:23
  Mike Goering: you know, long time listener, first time caller.
• 2:25
  Mike Goering: It's, I'm pumped to be here.
• 2:27
  Mike Goering: Uh, no.
• 2:29
  Mike Goering: So, so my background, um, I grew up in Anchorage, Alaska.
• 2:33
  Mike Goering: Um, went to college.
• 2:34
  Mike Goering: That's the thing that you're supposed to do if you, you know, read the rule book of American Society.
• 2:39
  Mike Goering: So I went off to college, wasn't really sure how to pay for it, so I was like, my brother had done the ROTC route and gotten a full scholarship.
• 2:45
  Mike Goering: So I was like, well, why not do that too?
• 2:47
  Mike Goering: Uh, so I did Army ROTC through college.
• 2:50
  Mike Goering: Uh, commissioned as a quartermaster officer in the Army, which then becomes a logistics officer.
• 2:56
  Mike Goering: Um, I think the original plan was to kind of do four years and figure out my life, um, and then kind of go from there.
• 3:02
  Mike Goering: Ended up doing 12 years, uh, active duty, moved kind of all around the country, um, ended up actually getting stationed in southeastern Idaho.
• 3:13
  Mike Goering: And then that's when I kind of decided to get out.
• 3:15
  Mike Goering: And so, so now I'm here collective master's degrees using the GI Bill, uh, as part of my transition plan.
• 3:21
  Mike Goering: Uh, so yeah.
• 3:23
  Mike Goering: Yeah.
• 3:23
  Mike Goering: So I got an MBA last year or two years ago now.
• 3:26
  Mike Goering: And then, uh, I'll do a, a Master's of public administration graduate this May.
• 3:32
  Markian Sich: Cool man.
• 3:33
  Mike Goering: into, we didn't talk about that before the call, but we could dive into kind of why I'm doing that and how that nests with real estate and some of the
• 3:40
  Markian Sich: Absolutely.
• 3:41
  Markian Sich: Uh,
• 3:41
  Mike Goering: I'm bringing in.
• 3:43
  Markian Sich: sounds very unique in general Right.
• 3:45
  Markian Sich: Of, of a, of a path, uh, non-standard.
• 3:48
  Markian Sich: So in and did you say, did I hear this right?
• 3:50
  Markian Sich: Just for all the listeners there?
• 3:51
  Markian Sich: You got out after 12 years.
• 3:53
  Mike Goering: Yeah, so I, I hit, uh, for, I think the Marines are the same way.
• 3:57
  Mike Goering: I hit oh four, so major.
• 4:00
  Mike Goering: Um, and was in A-R-O-T-C assignment.
• 4:04
  Mike Goering: We'll talk about this in a little bit.
• 4:05
  Mike Goering: My boss was four hours away.
• 4:07
  Mike Goering: I ha I was the senior military officer for about 200 square miles.
• 4:12
  Mike Goering: So you wanna talk about autonomy?
• 4:13
  Mike Goering: Like I had it and it was glorious.
• 4:16
  Mike Goering: Um, and really
• 4:16
  Markian Sich: Wow.
• 4:17
  Mike Goering: and impact students' lives, it was amazing.
• 4:20
  Mike Goering: Um, and so I, I did every deferment I could to stay here as long as I could to get to 12 years.
• 4:26
  Mike Goering: And then I was really knocking on the door of going to ILE and then I was gonna go back to the force of be like an XO or a, a support officer, S four, all those kinds of things.
• 4:36
  Mike Goering: And I was like, that's really just not the life I want.
• 4:40
  Mike Goering: Like, and that's
• 4:40
  Markian Sich: Mm-hmm.
• 4:41
  Mike Goering: with my personal goals especially.
• 4:43
  Mike Goering: Um, and so 12 years I.
• 4:46
  Mike Goering: It would've been 10 if I hadn't had that Kush assignment.
• 4:48
  Mike Goering: Right?
• 4:49
  Markian Sich: I gotcha.
• 4:50
  Markian Sich: No, it's just, it's funny'cause I think, uh, 12 is what I typically hear, you know, when I was trying to figure out like, what am I gonna do when I grow up?
• 4:57
  Markian Sich: Everybody says like, oh dude, well if you hit 12, like you might as well do 20.
• 5:00
  Markian Sich: And it's like, you know, I remember like Tim Kelly, I think he did 15 and he got out like it's, it's, it's a, or maybe even 17 years.
• 5:06
  Mike Goering: Yeah, he
• 5:07
  Markian Sich: Yeah.
• 5:07
  Markian Sich: And so it's like, it's like this, um, I dunno.
• 5:11
  Markian Sich: I did eight and a half active and another three in the reserves.
• 5:14
  Markian Sich: So like.
• 5:15
  Markian Sich: I guess, I don't know.
• 5:16
  Markian Sich: Uh, the reserve math always confused me, but like, it, it, it, it, I, I guess a part of my, like, you know, undercover ulterior motive mission to, uh, A DPI and the podcast is like, um, you don't have to wait till 20 years to do what you wanna do.
• 5:34
  Markian Sich: That being said, it is a phenomenal gig, like getting a you, you know, a paycheck for the rest of your life, like, you know, um, not dogging on it.
• 5:43
  Markian Sich: I'm just saying like, I, I kind of wanna just give people permission to just think outside the box.
• 5:47
  Markian Sich: When I hear other people that have done that, I'm like, Hey, let me highlight that.
• 5:50
  Markian Sich: Okay.
• 5:51
  Markian Sich: So, um, that's really cool.
• 5:52
  Markian Sich: And, uh, okay, so, so what's that?
• 5:56
  Mike Goering: I was gonna say tons of, uh, analysis on sunk cost fallacy and then opportunity cost of my thirties.
• 6:02
  Mike Goering: Like really, that was, were the two big things I ended up having to look at was like, just because I've done 12 years doesn't mean that's gonna continue to be the right decision for me in the future.
• 6:11
  Mike Goering: And like really just weighing that as a sum cost and just moving on.
• 6:15
  Mike Goering: And then really the opportunity costs in my thirties, like I don't get those back.
• 6:19
  Mike Goering: Um,
• 6:20
  Markian Sich: Dude, can you, can you explain sun cost?
• 6:23
  Markian Sich: Can you explain sunk cost to somebody?
• 6:25
  Markian Sich: Like, like, like we're about to get into your story, but that's a huge, I learned about that when I was in high school.
• 6:30
  Markian Sich: There was one economics professor, I don't remember anything from that class.
• 6:34
  Markian Sich: He gave us the answers to the tests.
• 6:35
  Markian Sich: I was like, this is just, this is absolute a waste of everybody's time.
• 6:40
  Markian Sich: But there's one thing he, he gave me like some, some analogy for sunk cost.
• 6:43
  Markian Sich: I can't even remember it.
• 6:45
  Markian Sich: And I was like, oh my God.
• 6:47
  Markian Sich: Like, it became like a tenet of how I make life decisions, you know?
• 6:51
  Markian Sich: So tell me, how do you, how do you think I've sunk cost?
• 6:54
  Mike Goering: let's, let's use a.
• 6:55
  Mike Goering: real estate analogy since I guess this is a
• 6:57
  Markian Sich: Yeah,
• 6:57
  Mike Goering: kind of a
• 6:58
  Markian Sich: yeah, sure, sure.
• 6:59
  Markian Sich: Kind of
• 7:01
  Mike Goering: At least we
• 7:01
  Markian Sich: business, military, real estate.
• 7:03
  Markian Sich: yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 7:05
  Mike Goering: Uh, um, so like due diligence is one I classically think of, right?
• 7:08
  Mike Goering: And especially in a multi-family world, we're talking pretty significant earnest money checks.
• 7:13
  Mike Goering: You spend a lot of money on lawyers and your inspections and all of that.
• 7:18
  Mike Goering: Well, sunk cost basically says that all of those things leading up to close are already committed funds, right?
• 7:25
  Mike Goering: And.
• 7:27
  Mike Goering: When we make a decision to continue forward and actually close on the property, we need to look as if those costs are fully lost, whether or not, and only look towards the future.
• 7:37
  Mike Goering: So if it's a deal that's gonna lose us money and we already have 50 grand into it, we should still leave that deal, even though we're gonna lose 50 grand'cause it's gonna continue to lose money.
• 7:46
  Mike Goering: Right.
• 7:46
  Markian Sich: If it's a bad deal, it's a bad deal.
• 7:48
  Mike Goering: yeah, looking at only the future and not looking at the past because just because you've lost money in the past doesn't mean you should keep doing the thing.
• 7:55
  Mike Goering: Right.
• 7:55
  Mike Goering: And so
• 7:57
  Markian Sich: Dude that they, but that's, yeah.
• 7:59
  Markian Sich: Let me foot stop that just because, well, I mean, here's a completely different analogy, right?
• 8:05
  Markian Sich: Because I, I started applying this not only to business is was, um, I can't remember what it was.
• 8:10
  Markian Sich: I think it was like a vacation we were doing and we already bought tickets or whatever to a thing,
• 8:15
  Mike Goering: Yeah.
• 8:15
  Markian Sich: and then another opportunity presented itself to do a more fun thing and.
• 8:23
  Markian Sich: I think I, I don't know, wanna drag my parents or like the older generation in it, but I don't know what it is.
• 8:29
  Markian Sich: But it seems to me like a lot of people that I, uh, that are maybe, uh, especially'cause I come from, come from Ukraine and like there's some all sorts of weird philosophical things of like how life should be from the Soviet Union, where they're like, well, you already pay for it, so you must do the thing that you already paid for.
• 8:47
  Markian Sich: Even if the other thing is better.
• 8:49
  Markian Sich: And even if like, and I'm just like, wait a second.
• 8:53
  Markian Sich: Like when I, when I heard sunk cost, I was like, it gave, it gave me freedom to be like, just because I already spent$500 on that ticket, but there's this incredible opportunity that yes, maybe I have to pay another$500 and maybe I don't even care about my but the money.
• 9:06
  Markian Sich: But like, I, I, I let go of that anchor.
• 9:08
  Markian Sich: I was like, no, I can still make the better choice.
• 9:11
  Markian Sich: Don't let a past choice affect future opportunities because, I mean, there's so many more analogies, but like.
• 9:19
  Markian Sich: Wow.
• 9:19
  Markian Sich: That really freed up my, my, my mental thinking.
• 9:22
  Markian Sich: And I find myself like, like almost jumping at people be like, no.
• 9:26
  Markian Sich: Like, they'll be like, well, I already paid for it.
• 9:28
  Markian Sich: Like, no stop.
• 9:28
  Markian Sich: Is this better?
• 9:29
  Markian Sich: If it is, forget what you paid for.
• 9:31
  Markian Sich: You know, like, I, like,
• 9:32
  Mike Goering: Yeah.
• 9:33
  Markian Sich: like really intense about it.
• 9:34
  Markian Sich: Like, I, like this is a huge part of my, my way of living life.
• 9:38
  Mike Goering: is such a mental trap to have to get through.
• 9:41
  Mike Goering: I could tell you kind of start to click it and then you still catch yourself in it and you're like, well, this, I'm doing it again.
• 9:47
  Markian Sich: Yeah.
• 9:48
  Markian Sich: Yeah.
• 9:48
  Markian Sich: You, well, I think, I think it's just people hate spending money on something that they're not gonna use.
• 9:52
  Markian Sich: I mean, I, I get it.
• 9:54
  Markian Sich: I get it.
• 9:55
  Markian Sich: But also, like, it might not be what's best for you, but, um, anyway.
• 9:58
  Markian Sich: Yeah.
• 9:59
  Markian Sich: So, so you,
• 10:00
  Mike Goering: Yeah.
• 10:00
  Mike Goering: About changing your mind and accepting that you made a mistake.
• 10:03
  Mike Goering: Like, but hey, we
• 10:06
  Markian Sich: yeah.
• 10:06
  Markian Sich: Uh, well, I mean, uh, I think that's also one of the biggest things about.
• 10:14
  Markian Sich: And I think that's why you brought it up in a sense is so like, I, I always talk about like, I had to change my identity multiple times.
• 10:20
  Markian Sich: And I think when you change who you are, um, it doesn't mean that you're like throwing the past away.
• 10:27
  Markian Sich: It means you're like, it's, it's the next evolution.
• 10:29
  Markian Sich: You, you kind of like standing on the shoulders of giants, you know?
• 10:32
  Markian Sich: Like that.
• 10:33
  Markian Sich: What was that an, a Lincoln quote, right?
• 10:35
  Markian Sich: Like, like it's it's in your own life too.
• 10:38
  Markian Sich: You, I'm, I'm standing on what I used to be.
• 10:40
  Markian Sich: So like, I, I grew up a Ukrainian kid had to completely change every, like I had a culture shock, you know, became an American kid in high school.
• 10:47
  Markian Sich: I got thrown into high school, like I had a leather jacket on and soccer hair people, believe it or not, people made fun of me.
• 10:52
  Markian Sich: And then it was like, then it was like, well instead of being like a frat star, I'm gonna go go.
• 10:57
  Markian Sich: The Naval Academy.
• 10:58
  Markian Sich: That was a culture shock.
• 10:59
  Markian Sich: Again, I didn't even know the difference between officer and enlisted.
• 11:02
  Markian Sich: And then it was like I, this whole time I thought I was gonna be in the Navy and then, uh, ended up going into the Marine Corps.
• 11:08
  Markian Sich: And then that was a culture shock too.
• 11:11
  Markian Sich: And then I was like, you know what, maybe this Marine Corps thing isn't a career for me.
• 11:13
  Markian Sich: So I started becoming an entrepreneur.
• 11:15
  Markian Sich: It's just like this reinventing yourself.
• 11:17
  Markian Sich: You had, I had to be comfortable with like, shedding that skin, so to speak, every single time.
• 11:23
  Markian Sich: Um, so maybe, maybe that's a good segue into your story.
• 11:28
  Markian Sich: Like was there a shedding moment where you're like, I think, um, I don't know the, the past two heroes both described like these burning the boats moments where they just went all in'cause they knew that would force them to, to actually commit to a plan, um, even if it was risky.
• 11:45
  Markian Sich: Right.
• 11:45
  Markian Sich: Was was, was there a moment where you, like something clicked?
• 11:51
  Mike Goering: So, I mean, I hate to, just like every real estate podcast guest ever talks about like, is the Rich Dad, poor Dad?
• 11:58
  Mike Goering: Like that was kind of.
• 12:00
  Mike Goering: You know, it, learning that I can step outside the system, and I think that really changed the perspective as I was getting ready to leave the military was, was I can take a little more control of my own fate.
• 12:13
  Mike Goering: I, what did I see?
• 12:14
  Mike Goering: I saw a quote the other day.
• 12:16
  Mike Goering: Let's keep talking and I'll look it up.
• 12:19
  Markian Sich: Yeah.
• 12:19
  Markian Sich: And well, you know about, about No, you're fine.
• 12:22
  Markian Sich: And about the, when you find it, let me know, but what's that?
• 12:24
  Markian Sich: You found it?
• 12:26
  Mike Goering: yeah.
• 12:26
  Mike Goering: The best way to predict the future is to create it.
• 12:29
  Markian Sich: Ah, dude, love that.
• 12:32
  Markian Sich: I say that.
• 12:32
  Markian Sich: I actually, I say something similar, uh uh, and on, on our week one, onboarding calls for the cohorts.
• 12:38
  Markian Sich: I tell'em the greatest predictor of your future success is today's success, because I'm like, nobody.
• 12:44
  Markian Sich: Everybody like stares up at this 300 unit apartment complex, they wanna buy in downtown Indianapolis or something.
• 12:49
  Markian Sich: But, but they don't focus sometimes it just like, well what do you have to do today?
• 12:53
  Markian Sich: Right.
• 12:53
  Markian Sich: Crush that.
• 12:54
  Markian Sich: Like, don't trip and fall on the way.
• 12:55
  Markian Sich: 'cause you're just staring at that vision a mile away.
• 12:57
  Markian Sich: Like, okay, well maybe call three brokers today.
• 13:00
  Markian Sich: Maybe try to go get a 10 unit, you know, crush that first, build that momentum.
• 13:04
  Markian Sich: But yeah.
• 13:05
  Markian Sich: Um, love that.
• 13:07
  Markian Sich: You got, you gotta create your future.
• 13:09
  Mike Goering: a work in progress on a lot of that.
• 13:11
  Mike Goering: Um, but that's kind of where I started that whole shift.
• 13:14
  Mike Goering: Um, was
• 13:15
  Markian Sich: Was reading the book,
• 13:16
  Mike Goering: and
• 13:17
  Markian Sich: the purple Bible,
• 13:19
  Mike Goering: and that's evolved into like, like I've been un well unemployed for two years now since I got out.
• 13:25
  Mike Goering: Uh, and so I do this and then I've been teaching a little bit part-time at the local university and then going to grad school at the same time.
• 13:32
  Mike Goering: Yes, I'm somehow teaching and being a student at the same time.
• 13:35
  Mike Goering: Um, like that's just given
• 13:38
  Markian Sich: it's like.
• 13:39
  Mike Goering: to kind of find myself and then like I.
• 13:43
  Mike Goering: that I don't have to conform to the system to be successful has given me that kind of leeway to have those discussions with my parents that are a little more traditional and, and just kind of be like, Hey, I don't have to follow the system rules.
• 13:54
  Mike Goering: And it especially like if I do follow the system, I'm gonna get system outcomes, right?
• 13:58
  Mike Goering: I'm gonna, if I, if I'm average, I'm gonna get average outcomes.
• 14:01
  Mike Goering: And so
• 14:02
  Markian Sich: Hmm.
• 14:06
  Markian Sich: Yeah, it's like if you look at anybody meaningful, did, were they normal?
• 14:10
  Markian Sich: Like anybody that had a massive impact on history on the world, uh, I mean it, let's call it what it is, they're probably a little bit crazy.
• 14:18
  Markian Sich: They probably stepped outside the system to a certain degree.
• 14:21
  Markian Sich: Uh, they did something probably novel, maybe not greatly novel, but something not, not the common path.
• 14:30
  Markian Sich: Right.
• 14:30
  Markian Sich: Um, I will say there, there are clues though, with certain common paths, right?
• 14:35
  Markian Sich: Like, um, I keep bringing up the statistic probably at nauseum, but I, I, I can't.
• 14:40
  Markian Sich: Underscored enough.
• 14:43
  Markian Sich: Like it, it, it's, it's, it's a correlation.
• 14:46
  Markian Sich: It's not causation, right?
• 14:47
  Markian Sich: Like, it's not a guarantee, but like on average at every, I don't care what, what kind of money you make, what income level you're at, at every single income level, you're gonna be 40 times.
• 14:57
  Markian Sich: Well, like on average, you'll, uh, people are 40 times wealthier than those who rent.
• 15:01
  Markian Sich: You know, if you own a home, and I'm just like.
• 15:05
  Markian Sich: That, that to me is a clue as, as Rod Cleef would say, like that is like certain things you should really like, okay, well what, what can I do to make that happen?
• 15:13
  Markian Sich: And I just feel like the military has this insane, unfair advantage of buying a house for zero out of pocket.
• 15:20
  Markian Sich: And I don't mean like only zero down, like if you have a good loan officer and a good agent, which we're really big on right now at A DPI is to ensuring that they can both team up and help you negotiate and help get a good, like a actual, like broker, a VA loan for you that you can walk away with your earnest money deposit check at the closing table.
• 15:38
  Markian Sich: I mean, it won't happen every time, but if that's like the lens through which you're looking at, you're gonna get pretty close to that.
• 15:43
  Markian Sich: And I just think the military has an incredible unfair advantage like you and, and, and it's crazy to me that like, we don't talk about, I don't think the VA loan is a bigger deal than it is at large.
• 15:54
  Markian Sich: I mean, I don't know.
• 15:55
  Markian Sich: When you were for your 12 years, was that something that you feel like was underscored at all?
• 16:00
  Markian Sich: Or, or just, or, or maybe the opposite.
• 16:03
  Mike Goering: Well, I think you've hit this song pass podcast, like it's, we just don't talk about money.
• 16:07
  Mike Goering: Um, like, and
• 16:09
  Markian Sich: True.
• 16:10
  Mike Goering: that's, just a no no topic.
• 16:11
  Mike Goering: And, and we, we kind of avoid that, that, I mean, you're telling my story and, and I think one of the things I think is interesting, um, is I'll, I'll Google like average net worth, um,
• 16:21
  Markian Sich: Yeah.
• 16:22
  Mike Goering: to kind of see like, hey,
• 16:23
  Markian Sich: I
• 16:23
  Mike Goering: is that for everybody?
• 16:25
  Mike Goering: Um, especially with the kind of, in social sciences, so I look at incoming quality and stuff in class.
• 16:31
  Mike Goering: And average net worth for someone my age is about 300,000 or so.
• 16:35
  Mike Goering: That's what it takes to get into the top 10% so.
• 16:38
  Mike Goering: No, that's average or median.
• 16:40
  Markian Sich: So sorry.
• 16:40
  Markian Sich: I
• 16:41
  Mike Goering: top, top 10% is like 800,000 net worth
• 16:44
  Markian Sich: Okay.
• 16:44
  Mike Goering: for somebody our age.
• 16:46
  Mike Goering: Um, and I was looking at that and I was like, just my single house, the first one I bought.
• 16:52
  Mike Goering: Almost by itself put me above the median end, like net worth for somebody my age, like that one house.
• 16:59
  Mike Goering: And like that was really, that's really what, and maybe we go into my story'cause that's,
• 17:04
  Markian Sich: Yeah.
• 17:04
  Markian Sich: Yeah, go for it.
• 17:05
  Mike Goering: for real estate.
• 17:06
  Mike Goering: Yeah.
• 17:06
  Mike Goering: Okay.
• 17:07
  Mike Goering: So kind of going from the beginning, um, I commissioned in the end of 2012, um, and then went to Fort Hood, Texas, which was a interesting first duty station to have.
• 17:18
  Mike Goering: Um, and at the time it was like, we're like, at that time it got into 2013.
• 17:22
  Mike Goering: At that time everybody was deploying.
• 17:24
  Mike Goering: And so I kind of showed up with the mindset that I was gonna be gone half the time.
• 17:27
  Mike Goering: And so I was like, I'll just rent because I'm gonna be transient.
• 17:30
  Mike Goering: And I think there was a little fear there about buying probably, you know, um, so I didn't buy and I ended up staying there for four years.
• 17:39
  Mike Goering: And I deployed once, like right at the real, very end.
• 17:42
  Mike Goering: And I remember like my friend had bought a house for foreclosure at like 90,000.
• 17:47
  Mike Goering: Uh, central Texas was like stupid, affordable at the time I kind of did the quick math and I was like, if I had paid everything I had paid in rent, I would've been able to pay off a house in my time there.
• 17:58
  Mike Goering: And so,
• 18:01
  Markian Sich: Dude, isn't that, isn't that like gut wrenching?
• 18:04
  Markian Sich: You're like damnit.
• 18:05
  Mike Goering: so.
• 18:05
  Mike Goering: you, that was definitely like an oops moment and like, I didn't know anything.
• 18:09
  Mike Goering: I just had some like basic financial foundations to like, sort of like have that, that quick conversation in my head.
• 18:14
  Mike Goering: So I went, you know, off to captain's career course that was only there for six months.
• 18:18
  Mike Goering: So I kind of was like, I'll just rant and be fine.
• 18:21
  Markian Sich: Sure, sure.
• 18:22
  Mike Goering: gonna make that mistake anymore.
• 18:24
  Mike Goering: And so when I moved to Fort Bragg, and this is a lesson on what not to do, but that real estate's also forgiving.
• 18:31
  Mike Goering: Uh, 2018, my market research was that I had some buddies there that told me it was a cool town and I should buy a house there, and that's all I did, right?
• 18:39
  Mike Goering: Um, I ended up buying a house in Southern Pines, just outside the backside of Fort Bragg.
• 18:44
  Mike Goering: I assumed next to an army base would be safe.
• 18:47
  Mike Goering: Um, that's, and for those that don't know Fort Bragg, that's the Gulf community area.
• 18:51
  Mike Goering: It's right next to Pinehurst where the US open comes.
• 18:53
  Mike Goering: And so that's typically where the operators and the officers live.
• 18:58
  Mike Goering: Um, little more expensive in that house.
• 19:04
  Mike Goering: You're right about great loan officers.
• 19:06
  Mike Goering: I ended up getting paid at the closing table, zero money down.
• 19:11
  Mike Goering: And so, you know, fast forward like five years later, I'm leaving.
• 19:14
  Mike Goering: I put that thing up for rent.
• 19:16
  Mike Goering: I'm cash flowing like crazy'cause like the housing prices almost doubled while I was there.
• 19:21
  Markian Sich: Dang dude.
• 19:22
  Mike Goering: Yeah.
• 19:23
  Mike Goering: And so like, I didn't know what I was doing, but just having lived there long enough, you know, I got the grace of the market, um, to make up for that.
• 19:30
  Mike Goering: And so, you know, by the time I was done, I was cashflow and about 500 after everything else.
• 19:36
  Mike Goering: Um, and then I, I moved out.
• 19:39
  Mike Goering: Um.
• 19:40
  Mike Goering: you know, I've had Brenner paying my, my mortgage for the last couple years.
• 19:43
  Mike Goering: That was fantastic.
• 19:45
  Mike Goering: And I just kind of like landed on that.
• 19:46
  Mike Goering: Hadn't really even thought about real estate investing as a thing.
• 19:50
  Mike Goering: So then I got out to Idaho, I decided to rent out here'cause it was two, like 21.
• 19:55
  Mike Goering: Um, and if you know anything about Idaho, 2020 to 21 Idaho exploded.
• 20:00
  Mike Goering: So it was an affordable market to get into.
• 20:05
  Mike Goering: and I didn't really know the town, so I did a little more market research, learned a little more about the town.
• 20:09
  Mike Goering: After a year, I got tired of somebody else decide how much money I had to pay for rent.
• 20:15
  Mike Goering: Um, if that makes sense.
• 20:17
  Mike Goering: So I, I ended that lease and I bought a house.
• 20:20
  Mike Goering: Um, I decided to do a live-in flip because that was the only way to make it work.
• 20:24
  Mike Goering: I ended up
• 20:25
  Markian Sich: Eric style.
• 20:26
  Mike Goering: off of, I ended up buying about a month off of peak for Idaho housing.
• 20:31
  Mike Goering: Um, so I just missed the most expensive opportunities.
• 20:36
  Mike Goering: Um, anyhow, and then I poured about 50 grand in working on this house, um, around that same time.
• 20:43
  Mike Goering: Um, so as a assistant professor of military science at Idaho State, my boss was out in Boise, and so that's about three and a half hours away from us.
• 20:51
  Mike Goering: And so he would've to come out to do site visits and one day he was, you know, so he is, if you've been to Idaho, that's the boring part of Idaho.
• 20:58
  Mike Goering: It's just like driving through high desert.
• 21:00
  Mike Goering: It's a horribly boring drive.
• 21:02
  Mike Goering: So he would listen to podcasts on his way across to do a visit, one day just slipped into conversation.
• 21:08
  Mike Goering: He's like, Hey man, I'm listening to this podcast.
• 21:09
  Mike Goering: It's called a, uh, a DPI.
• 21:11
  Mike Goering: He's like, you should check it out.
• 21:13
  Mike Goering: And I was like, okay.
• 21:15
  Mike Goering: And so I like wrote it down and just kind of gave it no thought.
• 21:17
  Mike Goering: Uh, I think I was driving down to Salt Lake or something like a couple weeks later and I like just put it on and, and like that was kind of where the education.
• 21:25
  Mike Goering: I had started to educate myself just in life, but that's really where the focus to real estate came.
• 21:31
  Mike Goering: Um, was just that offhanded comment that he made.
• 21:35
  Mike Goering: Uh, and I've
• 21:35
  Markian Sich: So cool.
• 21:36
  Mike Goering: like, Hey, do you have, do you have any idea like what that little old comment made?
• 21:40
  Mike Goering: Like, do you even remember that?
• 21:41
  Mike Goering: And he was like, no.
• 21:43
  Mike Goering: Um,
• 21:43
  Markian Sich: Dude,
• 21:45
  Mike Goering: right.
• 21:46
  Markian Sich: it is funny that he doesn't remember that and meanwhile you're like, dude, that was like a big deal for me.
• 21:51
  Mike Goering: Right.
• 21:52
  Mike Goering: And since, you know, I love the lesson from that, like we could change each other's lives without even knowing it.
• 21:57
  Mike Goering: Like, just, just by being there and, and, and trying to add value everywhere we go.
• 22:02
  Mike Goering: Um, so that's, that's kind of where I got into the real estate.
• 22:05
  Mike Goering: So then I did this, this house is gonna actually end up doing alright, even though I bought it the worst time just'cause of the value add proposition I have, which is, then about a year later with, um, I started, you know, listening to podcasts, I got a little more familiar with the commercial real estate stuff.
• 22:21
  Mike Goering: Um, and as much as I love flipping.
• 22:24
  Mike Goering: I loved flipping this house.
• 22:26
  Mike Goering: I didn't see that as scalable.
• 22:28
  Mike Goering: Right.
• 22:28
  Mike Goering: And so then that's when I kind of started to look at, if I want to increase my impact, which is a big part of kind of who I am, then I need to do bigger scale.
• 22:37
  Mike Goering: Um, and so I'm in a small town, you do a, you know, a 30 unit apartment renovation that's, that's like noticeable across the whole community.
• 22:46
  Mike Goering: Um, like that's, that's talked about in a town this size.
• 22:49
  Mike Goering: And so I was like, that's, that's really the direction to go.
• 22:52
  Mike Goering: And I had thought that I needed to be accredited and all of that to get into commercial.
• 22:56
  Mike Goering: And then I had the, you know, the onboarding calls and I was like, oh, like I just need to know what I'm doing.
• 23:02
  Mike Goering: Um, that was kind of an eye-opener.
• 23:04
  Mike Goering: And then I kind of pivoted over and did the cohort and went through, uh, the, the MMA.
• 23:10
  Mike Goering: And that was the end of 23.
• 23:14
  Markian Sich: Okay, so you, so you bought one house, started renting that out.
• 23:20
  Markian Sich: Five, I mean, 500 bucks a month cashflow after living in a house.
• 23:24
  Markian Sich: Like, that's a dream.
• 23:25
  Markian Sich: That's a great deal, right?
• 23:27
  Markian Sich: Obviously, like you said, timing the market, but, you know, I don't know, fortune favors the bold, right?
• 23:33
  Markian Sich: Like you actually bought a house.
• 23:34
  Markian Sich: A lot of people would've just rented.
• 23:36
  Markian Sich: So, um, you know, you, you keep, you keep trying to, trying to hit that ball, you're gonna hit it eventually and then, um, and then you start wanting to make a bigger impact.
• 23:49
  Markian Sich: And let me actually rewind.
• 23:50
  Markian Sich: You said something like, it's just kind of in passing.
• 23:51
  Markian Sich: You have your renters paying off your home.
• 23:54
  Markian Sich: We're about to get into the commercial stuff, but like.
• 23:56
  Markian Sich: Uh, that to me, I, I don't know if I, like, if I'm ever explaining it right, I don't, I started calling it a reverse savings account, but I don't know that people understand how impactful that is.
• 24:08
  Markian Sich: And it really kind of like blew my mind when I realized, oh, that's why like when you get to a certain point where like, um, a lot of the like ultra wealthy, right?
• 24:17
  Markian Sich: They don't buy real estate for necessarily the cash flow.
• 24:21
  Markian Sich: Like they're okay with like, which is weird when you get into real estate, you absolutely, that is the focus, right?
• 24:25
  Markian Sich: That's the economic engine.
• 24:26
  Markian Sich: You focus on that.
• 24:28
  Markian Sich: But later on they focus on just two things, appreciation and principle pay down.
• 24:34
  Markian Sich: All they want is it's like this diverging equity growth, right?
• 24:38
  Markian Sich: Like you, you like, it's growing in value, but then also somebody's paying off essentially, uh, a savings account for you.
• 24:47
  Markian Sich: Right.
• 24:47
  Markian Sich: It, it, it, it, it actually has, that is what equity is.
• 24:51
  Markian Sich: It has that value and somebody's giving it to you every single month.
• 24:54
  Markian Sich: A little more, a little more, a little more.
• 24:55
  Markian Sich: So you're growing your wealth in your sleep in two different directions that equity's growing in two different directions.
• 25:01
  Markian Sich: Right?
• 25:01
  Markian Sich: Like, imagine a number line, it's just, it's just growing like this, right?
• 25:05
  Markian Sich: Uh, not just on one side.
• 25:07
  Markian Sich: And that to me, I mean, yes, the tax benefits are great.
• 25:10
  Markian Sich: Yes, the cash flow is great.
• 25:11
  Markian Sich: Yes.
• 25:12
  Markian Sich: All, all the things.
• 25:14
  Markian Sich: But when you, when you have a handful of these and there's other people putting money into you, you know, basically contributing to your retirement, right?
• 25:24
  Markian Sich: They're like paying into a TSP on your behalf, essentially.
• 25:27
  Markian Sich: That to me is like, oh, that is, that's the grail right there.
• 25:31
  Markian Sich: That's the beauty of this.
• 25:32
  Markian Sich: And it's secure because everybody will always need a place to live.
• 25:36
  Markian Sich: Yes, there's the risks and all that kind of stuff.
• 25:38
  Markian Sich: And then, and then now you're talking about commercial, right?
• 25:40
  Markian Sich: It's like, okay, now that, now it's happening at scale.
• 25:44
  Markian Sich: I remember we refinanced one of my properties and like pulled almost a million bucks out.
• 25:47
  Markian Sich: It was like 800 something thousand dollars tax re and it was like, I think almost 200 grand of that was just our tenants paying off the loan.
• 25:55
  Markian Sich: I'm like, you like what?
• 25:59
  Markian Sich: You know, mind boggling.
• 26:01
  Markian Sich: So anyway, I just, I just couldn't help but, but bring that up.
• 26:05
  Markian Sich: Do you, I mean, is that the first thing that like attracted you to real estate or were you more of a cashflow person?
• 26:10
  Markian Sich: Like what was the thing that was like, because there's so many things about real estate, it's like a multi-layered cake
• 26:16
  Mike Goering: Initially you're giving me way too much credit.
• 26:19
  Mike Goering: It was just, that's, that was, I was still on the American dream track, that like
• 26:23
  Markian Sich: own a home,
• 26:24
  Mike Goering: college,
• 26:25
  Markian Sich: know?
• 26:25
  Mike Goering: a job, you own a
• 26:26
  Markian Sich: Right, right, right, right.
• 26:27
  Markian Sich: Right.
• 26:28
  Mike Goering: we started.
• 26:28
  Mike Goering: And then, then like certainly like,'cause I have a background in like my undergrad was business and then I got an MBA later.
• 26:35
  Mike Goering: Like I, I know how to work some numbers and so, you know, I started to see that when I went to rent it was like, oh, like that$500 cashflow.
• 26:43
  Mike Goering: It's got a great rate on it.
• 26:44
  Mike Goering: 'cause I refinanced in 2020.
• 26:46
  Mike Goering: Um, that's about half of what I make a month.
• 26:50
  Mike Goering: I'm making about 500 more in equity pay down.
• 26:52
  Mike Goering: Um.
• 26:54
  Mike Goering: So you're like, alright, like I'm, I'm growing my net worth, but I, I think of it as a forced savings account.
• 27:01
  Mike Goering: It's money I can't touch today, but it's money that's gonna be there in the future.
• 27:05
  Mike Goering: And so you don't really have a choice.
• 27:07
  Mike Goering: It's gotta go into savings and it's gonna sit there and continue to grow.
• 27:10
  Mike Goering: And, and I.
• 27:12
  Markian Sich: And, and that's probably the unsung benefit of real estate, is that, um, it is forced to a certain degree.
• 27:17
  Markian Sich: 'cause it's not like the stock market where it's not like a savings account where you can just liquidate and, and buy something like impulse buy.
• 27:23
  Markian Sich: Like, oh, look at that new Pokemon card, or whatever.
• 27:25
  Markian Sich: Right?
• 27:25
  Markian Sich: Like, I'm just kidding, but like, you can't do that.
• 27:28
  Markian Sich: Real estate is, is a slow moving thing.
• 27:30
  Markian Sich: You wanna sell a house, you gotta go talk to a real estate agent, you gotta go, you know, maybe put it on the market.
• 27:35
  Markian Sich: Uh, you know, you got, you're gonna get like a, you know, offers coming in, you go back and forth.
• 27:40
  Markian Sich: Like it takes maybe 60, 90 days to sell a house.
• 27:43
  Markian Sich: And so you're, you're, you really have to like.
• 27:47
  Markian Sich: Sit down, make a big, it's a big life decision to sell it.
• 27:50
  Markian Sich: It's not just a, you know, I tap something on my phone and I make an impulse bad decision, and I'm like, oh, I shouldn't have sold that.
• 27:56
  Markian Sich: You know that, that Bitcoin or whatever.
• 27:59
  Markian Sich: Right.
• 27:59
  Mike Goering: Yeah,
• 28:00
  Markian Sich: um,
• 28:01
  Mike Goering: with Ken.
• 28:03
  Mike Goering: you were talking with Ken, you guys talked about like putting things on a conveyor belt and like, you don't touch it and then it comes off as equity in the end.
• 28:11
  Mike Goering: Um, it was one of your previous guests,
• 28:14
  Markian Sich: maybe, maybe, maybe.
• 28:15
  Markian Sich: Yeah.
• 28:15
  Mike Goering: that was a really cool analogy that like, you're, you're kind of just setting your assets on this conveyor belt and
• 28:21
  Markian Sich: Yeah.
• 28:21
  Markian Sich: I love that.
• 28:22
  Mike Goering: that's, that's like a five year cycle, but like you're just putting'em on there and like, you don't have to worry about the temptations to dip into the equity.
• 28:30
  Mike Goering: You just put it there and you know that you're gonna get the check in the future.
• 28:33
  Mike Goering: Um, and that,
• 28:35
  Markian Sich: I love that.
• 28:35
  Mike Goering: me is like, because I'm not maybe the most disciplined.
• 28:38
  Mike Goering: So it's about, um, parameters around,
• 28:41
  Markian Sich: Same, same.
• 28:44
  Markian Sich: No, I know myself, I'm like, I.
• 28:47
  Markian Sich: Like I, I might, I don't know, buy a plane ticket some for some vacation.
• 28:51
  Markian Sich: Like, I, I, I, it's literally, and, and that's what I love.
• 28:54
  Markian Sich: It's, it's like a secret handshake.
• 28:56
  Markian Sich: It's, it's like an un uh, untold agreement or contract.
• 28:58
  Markian Sich: I have, I have with real estate.
• 28:59
  Markian Sich: It was like, I'm gonna continue investing in real estate, but you're gonna be my nest egg.
• 29:04
  Markian Sich: I was like, I was like, you just keep growing so that I can, like, I'm gonna be very honest to all the listeners.
• 29:10
  Markian Sich: Like, I'm not a huge saver.
• 29:14
  Markian Sich: So like, and I know that about myself.
• 29:16
  Markian Sich: And so, like, to me, real estate is a beautiful agreement.
• 29:19
  Markian Sich: Like, it's like this beautiful forced saving, you know, uh, that is building my nest egg without me having to build a nest egg, so to speak, in my bank accounts as, as much.
• 29:29
  Markian Sich: Right.
• 29:30
  Markian Sich: Uh, that doesn't mean I, I don't.
• 29:32
  Mike Goering: yeah.
• 29:33
  Mike Goering: It's tangible, which I think is another really interesting thing, especially like when we get into capital raising, like it's a tangible asset.
• 29:40
  Mike Goering: Um, and I think, you know, I, I would make the joke like, you're not gonna like.
• 29:46
  Mike Goering: Feel like you own a part of this because you have Apple stock, right?
• 29:49
  Mike Goering: I'm showing my phone,
• 29:50
  Markian Sich: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 29:51
  Mike Goering: I don't feel a connection to my iPhone because I own Apple stock.
• 29:55
  Mike Goering: But when I own an apartment, I feel a connection.
• 29:57
  Mike Goering: Like
• 29:58
  Markian Sich: Mm-hmm.
• 29:58
  Mike Goering: I probably have a greater ownership share as a syndication, but like you have a connection to that in a different way because it's a tangible thing.
• 30:05
  Mike Goering: It's not a, a number on a screen.
• 30:07
  Mike Goering: Um, and I think that helps me a lot to seeing tangible, like, this thing
• 30:13
  Markian Sich: Hmm.
• 30:13
  Mike Goering: and it's growing in value.
• 30:16
  Mike Goering: And I'm like, then you add the impacting tenant's lives and all that too.
• 30:19
  Mike Goering: Um, it just makes it much more rewarding to put my stuff, my money into that, and then just like letting it do its thing.
• 30:27
  Mike Goering: Um, stocks
• 30:28
  Markian Sich: very virtual world,
• 30:30
  Mike Goering: Yeah.
• 30:31
  Markian Sich: right?
• 30:31
  Markian Sich: In a very virtual, sorry, I keep cutting you off.
• 30:35
  Markian Sich: Uh,
• 30:36
  Mike Goering: No, you're good.
• 30:37
  Markian Sich: but, but it, it's.
• 30:39
  Markian Sich: You're talking about stocks on the screen, but like, our lives are so much in the screen now, right?
• 30:43
  Markian Sich: It's like everything's remote, everything's virtual.
• 30:46
  Markian Sich: Uh, it trust is massively degraded as a result.
• 30:50
  Markian Sich: But here you have this, like, this building built out of bricks potentially, and houses dozens of families.
• 30:56
  Markian Sich: Like, you know, that's a real thing.
• 30:59
  Markian Sich: They need a place to live.
• 31:01
  Markian Sich: It exists on this earth.
• 31:02
  Markian Sich: It's not some AI chatbot or crypto somewhere in the cloud, right?
• 31:07
  Markian Sich: It is a real thing.
• 31:09
  Markian Sich: And I don't care what happens with our currency.
• 31:13
  Markian Sich: Maybe they'll pay me in Bitcoin someday, but rent's gonna be due between the first and the fifth.
• 31:17
  Markian Sich: You know what I mean?
• 31:18
  Markian Sich: So I don't care.
• 31:20
  Markian Sich: I don't, you can pay me in any currency you want in the future.
• 31:23
  Markian Sich: I, to me, real estate is a currency, right?
• 31:26
  Markian Sich: If you think about it.
• 31:27
  Markian Sich: Anyways, I'm not gonna get into that.
• 31:28
  Markian Sich: So, okay.
• 31:29
  Markian Sich: Back to your story.
• 31:30
  Markian Sich: So what was the, the commercial flip like or.
• 31:34
  Markian Sich: The, the venture, like what was, what was, what got you into that?
• 31:38
  Markian Sich: Like ultimately what was the first deal or how, how do you wanna describe that situation?
• 31:42
  Mike Goering: Yeah.
• 31:43
  Mike Goering: So there's some lessons that be learned here.
• 31:46
  Mike Goering: So we'll, we'll share those.
• 31:48
  Mike Goering: So
• 31:48
  Markian Sich: For sure.
• 31:49
  Mike Goering: the, yeah, right.
• 31:51
  Mike Goering: Uh, graduated the cohort at the end of 23.
• 31:56
  Markian Sich: Okay.
• 31:56
  Mike Goering: know, we, we, you guys dropped me off into 24, right?
• 31:59
  Mike Goering: And 24 wasn't a great year for, for like learning commercial real estate.
• 32:04
  Mike Goering: Um, a little bit tight on some of the margins there.
• 32:07
  Mike Goering: Really high buyer expectations, lot of with mortgage rates and things like that, that just made it.
• 32:14
  Mike Goering: A
• 32:14
  Markian Sich: Terrible year.
• 32:15
  Mike Goering: year.
• 32:15
  Markian Sich: Terrible year.
• 32:16
  Mike Goering: Low transaction year we're not.
• 32:19
  Mike Goering: Right.
• 32:19
  Mike Goering: And
• 32:20
  Markian Sich: Yeah.
• 32:20
  Mike Goering: that was part of it, but part of it was, you know, we left the cohort and we'd done a spinoff accountability group.
• 32:26
  Mike Goering: Um, and so like we had the core team kind of meeting and we did what, uh, basically I think every student does is we all looked in our own backyards and we're like, we started looking for deals.
• 32:35
  Mike Goering: And there was, that's a great starting point.
• 32:39
  Mike Goering: And so we know had a guy outside of Indianapolis that was like, Hey, like this is a great metro.
• 32:43
  Mike Goering: It is.
• 32:44
  Mike Goering: And I think you invest out there like great metro, um.
• 32:48
  Mike Goering: Then we had a guy in Virginia, there's some good stuff in Virginia, guy in California.
• 32:52
  Mike Goering: We ignored him.
• 32:53
  Mike Goering: Uh, then, you know, I'm in Idaho and so, and I had been really quiet about Idaho because it's a small town.
• 32:59
  Mike Goering: There's not a lot of transactions where I'm at.
• 33:02
  Mike Goering: and so we kind of were just floating all over the place.
• 33:05
  Mike Goering: Um, and we looked at a few things here and there, but, you know, I don't get excited about the Midwest.
• 33:10
  Mike Goering: I, I fully understand why people invest there.
• 33:13
  Mike Goering: It's a great market, really good fundamentals.
• 33:16
  Mike Goering: It's just not where I would ever wanna live.
• 33:18
  Mike Goering: And so I find it hard to get passionate about living there or like buying properties there.
• 33:23
  Mike Goering: Right?
• 33:23
  Mike Goering: And that was something I started to learn was that I needed to be passionate about the project
• 33:28
  Markian Sich: Right.
• 33:28
  Mike Goering: a capital raiser and as a deal lead to, to get through those tough days and to like actually invest in that.
• 33:35
  Mike Goering: Um, and just a quick plug for capital raising, like passion brings people.
• 33:39
  Mike Goering: And so if you're passionate about your project, people will just sign up to, to commit to your deal to help invest with
• 33:45
  Markian Sich: It is almost that magical, isn't it?
• 33:47
  Markian Sich: Like it, it, it's, it's kind of weird, like they sense the conviction in your tone, in your demeanor.
• 33:54
  Markian Sich: If you're passionate, like I, I, I, I feel you.
• 33:59
  Mike Goering: Yeah.
• 33:59
  Mike Goering: So I, that lesson took me way too long to learn.
• 34:02
  Mike Goering: And so I started, you know, thinking more with my gut and then, then not just looking at numbers, because if you look at numbers, there's opportunity everywhere.
• 34:10
  Mike Goering: But like, we even looked at tons of different asset classes.
• 34:14
  Mike Goering: And for me, people are, what makes this business fun is like impacting tenants lives.
• 34:19
  Mike Goering: And so, you know, triple net leases, single or self storage, um, great, great asset classes, but there's, they're kind of set it and forget it, automate your systems and see a check every month, which I don't
• 34:32
  Markian Sich: Yeah.
• 34:32
  Mike Goering: for loving,
• 34:33
  Markian Sich: Yeah.
• 34:34
  Mike Goering: that's
• 34:35
  Markian Sich: It kind of lacks the purpose behind it, right?
• 34:37
  Markian Sich: Like it kind of lacks the mission behind it.
• 34:39
  Markian Sich: Right.
• 34:40
  Markian Sich: Okay.
• 34:40
  Mike Goering: I'm not throwing shade at anybody that does that.
• 34:42
  Mike Goering: Those are
• 34:43
  Markian Sich: I got it.
• 34:44
  Mike Goering: They're just not my assets.
• 34:45
  Mike Goering: Right.
• 34:46
  Mike Goering: And so that whole, like, I think it ended up being almost 18 months, you know, was really some misguided adventures that finally found me passion in an asset class.
• 34:57
  Mike Goering: And then more importantly like in a market.
• 34:59
  Mike Goering: And so I've really settled on kind of, I don't Salt Lake's really competitive.
• 35:04
  Mike Goering: It's about two and a half hours from me.
• 35:05
  Mike Goering: But I like the north of Salt Lake up to where I live.
• 35:08
  Mike Goering: Pocatello, um, along the I 15 corridor, right?
• 35:12
  Mike Goering: Just massive growth geography tells us where the path of progress is gonna be.
• 35:15
  Mike Goering: 'cause you can't build on top of a mountain, um, or, uh.
• 35:20
  Mike Goering: It's four service lines, so you can't build there.
• 35:22
  Mike Goering: I'm sure people would try.
• 35:24
  Mike Goering: Uh, so that was kind of when I started to focus on that and get passionate about my market.
• 35:30
  Mike Goering: Um, and that's where I integrated in.
• 35:32
  Mike Goering: Like, I love skiing, I love mountain biking, like I love the
• 35:35
  Markian Sich: Right.
• 35:36
  Mike Goering: And so,
• 35:37
  Markian Sich: Yeah, man.
• 35:37
  Mike Goering: why I love this space is because my tenants are also people that love those things.
• 35:43
  Mike Goering: And so I can get really excited about living in the Intermountain West because I live here and I, I do all the things that make me, you know, this place.
• 35:53
  Mike Goering: And so I'm really passionate about growing the communities here.
• 35:55
  Mike Goering: 'cause it, it's my people, right.
• 35:59
  Mike Goering: Um, and you
• 36:00
  Markian Sich: I gotcha.
• 36:01
  Mike Goering: Yeah.
• 36:03
  Markian Sich: Yeah.
• 36:03
  Markian Sich: And, and
• 36:04
  Mike Goering: of
• 36:06
  Markian Sich: d is that where you guys invested, like your team, your first deal?
• 36:09
  Markian Sich: Or where'd you, where'd you guys,
• 36:10
  Mike Goering: Yeah.
• 36:11
  Mike Goering: yeah, yeah, First deal.
• 36:12
  Mike Goering: So, um, I.
• 36:13
  Mike Goering: I think it was, well we called it a DP icon now, the military recon, uh,
• 36:19
  Markian Sich: I.
• 36:19
  Mike Goering: Denver two years ago.
• 36:21
  Mike Goering: Um, I love conferences.
• 36:24
  Mike Goering: One of the things I love the most is the drive home from conferences, um, is like just that, like putting it all together.
• 36:32
  Mike Goering: And I think for that one I had flown outta Salt Lake, so I had like a two and a half hour drive after the, Well anyway, so I'm driving home from the airport and I'm just kind of like about action.
• 36:42
  Mike Goering: We talked a lot about, um.
• 36:46
  Mike Goering: Didn't say it, but who, not how, like the, the team, like, you don't need to be great at everything.
• 36:50
  Mike Goering: You need to have a team that's great at everything.
• 36:53
  Mike Goering: and I had been like kind of holding myself back because there were things I didn't know still that weren't inside of my space.
• 36:59
  Mike Goering: Um, but I was just like, well, I don't know, asset management.
• 37:02
  Mike Goering: So like, I'm not ready to do this.
• 37:03
  Mike Goering: Um, but it's like, I have a guy that does that now.
• 37:06
  Mike Goering: Right?
• 37:06
  Mike Goering: And so it was like kind of liberating to have that little moment where it was like, this is a team effort and I just need to be good at what I need to do.
• 37:12
  Mike Goering: Um, I'd had that and then I kind of was just like, I, you know, it's been over a year and I haven't moved forward tangibly yet.
• 37:21
  Mike Goering: In hindsight, I, I grew a ton and learned and met a ton of people.
• 37:25
  Mike Goering: That made it way easier once I started actually tangibly moving forward.
• 37:29
  Mike Goering: Um,
• 37:31
  Markian Sich: It is kinda like a building.
• 37:32
  Mike Goering: progress.
• 37:33
  Markian Sich: Yeah, it's like you don't see the building until like, until it pops up over the surface.
• 37:37
  Markian Sich: 'cause meanwhile you're like building like the foundation, it's all under the ground, and all of a sudden you're like, oh, you know, like a year later you start seeing the Yeah, I hear you.
• 37:45
  Mike Goering: Yeah.
• 37:45
  Mike Goering: absolutely.
• 37:46
  Mike Goering: Right.
• 37:46
  Mike Goering: And so I left that and I had talked with somebody that's local, um, and he had offered a, like, he was like, Hey, I'm always looking for people to help raise money for my deals.
• 37:56
  Mike Goering: And I was like, and at the time I was like, I'm not a capital raiser.
• 38:00
  Mike Goering: Um, like I'm a natural introvert.
• 38:02
  Mike Goering: So like, I was like, I, that's not my thing.
• 38:04
  Mike Goering: I don't wanna do that.
• 38:06
  Mike Goering: And I just kind of, well actually Anthony Peters, he's one of the heroes now too.
• 38:10
  Mike Goering: We had had a conversation at a DP icon and he was like, Hey, I think he'd be really good at capital raising.
• 38:15
  Mike Goering: I, I think he was selfishly looking'cause he was looking for capital raises too.
• 38:19
  Mike Goering: But, but like, he had said that to me, another one of those like weird offhanded things.
• 38:23
  Mike Goering: I haven't talked to him, but I bet he doesn't remember saying that too.
• 38:26
  Mike Goering: Uh, but like that really kind of reframed it.
• 38:28
  Mike Goering: I was like, well I, I should just like let go of that limiting belief and just go try.
• 38:33
  Mike Goering: Um,
• 38:33
  Markian Sich: Right.
• 38:34
  Markian Sich: Right.
• 38:35
  Mike Goering: I.
• 38:35
  Mike Goering: had, I had talked to a, a local guy here and he was like, Hey, I'm always looking for people.
• 38:39
  Mike Goering: So I, I was like, I was at that moment in my car where I was like, I haven't taken action.
• 38:44
  Mike Goering: I'm letting all these, I don't knows, or the team get in my way and I'm telling myself I can't do something.
• 38:50
  Mike Goering: I was just like, so a couple days later I reached out to him.
• 38:53
  Mike Goering: I was like, Hey, like I'd be interested in, you know, raising money for you.
• 38:57
  Mike Goering: I think it was like two weeks later I was on a deal with him.
• 39:00
  Mike Goering: Um, like he would just, it was just perfect timing, right?
• 39:04
  Mike Goering: And so, you know, then I raised, you know, did the coup with him, um, and you know, raised some money for a deal down in uh, north Salt Lake area.
• 39:13
  Mike Goering: Absolutely amazing deal.
• 39:14
  Mike Goering: Um, and yeah, so at that, that was just kind of like got my foot in the door.
• 39:20
  Mike Goering: And I think that's a great way to get started.
• 39:22
  Mike Goering: 'cause I got to sit inside all his meetings and look at all his products and see how he's doing things.
• 39:29
  Mike Goering: And then kind of at the same time we started talking with this broker for a little seven unit where I live.
• 39:35
  Mike Goering: Um,
• 39:35
  Markian Sich: Oh yeah.
• 39:36
  Mike Goering: found, yeah, I still hadn't found like that, um, that concept of like, once you are focused, like other people will join you, um, if you're really clear on what you want.
• 39:47
  Mike Goering: so I still wasn't in that for my market.
• 39:50
  Mike Goering: Um, but saw it, I brought it to the team.
• 39:53
  Mike Goering: I was like, Hey, this looks like it's got something.
• 39:56
  Mike Goering: It's overpriced, but like, let's, let's just get a rep.
• 39:59
  Mike Goering: And that was like literally our conversation was like, we're just gonna do this and get a rep.
• 40:05
  Mike Goering: Going through to the LOI, you're like, we'll probably learn something new.
• 40:08
  Mike Goering: Probably won't close.
• 40:10
  Mike Goering: fine.
• 40:12
  Mike Goering: you know, it's, it's a classic patience game.
• 40:14
  Mike Goering: We reached out, the numbers didn't work.
• 40:17
  Mike Goering: It was a mom and pop, so really messy books.
• 40:20
  Mike Goering: Um, and we were like, Hey, uh, we could probably make something work with seller finance.
• 40:24
  Mike Goering: And they were like, we're not interested in that.
• 40:26
  Mike Goering: We're like, cool.
• 40:27
  Mike Goering: Um, good luck.
• 40:29
  Mike Goering: Hopefully you find a buyer.
• 40:30
  Mike Goering: Three weeks later, broker reaches out and he's like, Hey, seller finance is on the table.
• 40:34
  Mike Goering: You know, what would your offer be?
• 40:36
  Mike Goering: Um, so we we're like, all right, well this is probably when we've ever gone before.
• 40:41
  Mike Goering: And so we started, you know, going back and forth.
• 40:44
  Mike Goering: Um, you know, and this is not probably repeatable, but we ended up getting, almost a 20% discount on it with a seller finance, um, and.
• 40:55
  Mike Goering: Went through due diligence, found out the roof that they had told us was brand new and we shouldn't worry about it.
• 41:00
  Mike Goering: It was, in fact, actually three layers of shingles with a soft spot, no attic access, so we couldn't like actually get up in there to see how significant the damage was.
• 41:10
  Mike Goering: So we ended up having to retrade the roof situation.
• 41:13
  Markian Sich: Uh, lemme just pause there for guys.
• 41:15
  Markian Sich: If you, if you're, if you're, if you, if you're okay.
• 41:18
  Markian Sich: Hold on.
• 41:18
  Markian Sich: Just a, a lot of people, I'm like, yes, I, you know, A DPI, our bread and butter has been.
• 41:24
  Markian Sich: Learning how to get into real estate, VA loans, house hacking, quadplexes, you name it.
• 41:28
  Markian Sich: But, uh, a lot of, like, a lot of military members don't realize that commercial real estate is a great stepping stone into business overall because it's treated like a business.
• 41:39
  Markian Sich: And there's a process here.
• 41:40
  Markian Sich: And so when he said cog, what he meant is he joined a general partner team.
• 41:44
  Markian Sich: Those are the, that is a team of investors who, they are the, they acquire it, they find it, they acquire it, they manage it, they exit it for, on the behalf of other individuals who are completely passive, legally.
• 41:57
  Markian Sich: That's the limited partner.
• 41:58
  Markian Sich: So we call'em gp, lp.
• 42:00
  Markian Sich: All right.
• 42:00
  Markian Sich: Just, just covering the basics here.
• 42:02
  Markian Sich: And so you joined a team to do that, and I'm just gonna cover a few things that I think are important because there's the way a DPI teach.
• 42:11
  Mike Goering: not explaining'em.
• 42:12
  Markian Sich: No, no, you're fine.
• 42:13
  Markian Sich: I just, I'm just realizing like, I mean, a lot of people, it might be very senior and this is just an interesting journey, so they can, they can listen along, but some people might just be starting out or this is shared and this can be a good educational moment.
• 42:23
  Markian Sich: Like one of the things that, um, that, that we do at a DPI, I think very well is we teach the indi individual roles, right?
• 42:33
  Markian Sich: So you, you, it's like moss almost like, and, and I feel like with our Core four roles and, and of course there's like the external team members or kinda like the pseudo, like you need to have a guarantor if it's a really big deal to sign on a loan and all that kinda stuff.
• 42:45
  Markian Sich: And property managers, attorneys, all that kinda stuff.
• 42:47
  Markian Sich: But the core team.
• 42:49
  Markian Sich: It is really like the underwriter, asset manager, capital raiser and deal acquisition person, right?
• 42:55
  Markian Sich: And what you're describing is you, you found a location and on, and this is where I think the, the, the backbone almost of a team is really, uh, asset management and deal acquisition.
• 43:05
  Markian Sich: Because you, those two roles need to focus on an area, right?
• 43:09
  Markian Sich: To really be truly successful.
• 43:11
  Markian Sich: Somebody, somebody really wants to be able to find deals well.
• 43:14
  Markian Sich: They need to focus on an area somebody really wants to focus on managing property managers and contractors and whatnot.
• 43:18
  Markian Sich: To execute a business plan, they have to be focused on an area.
• 43:21
  Markian Sich: But then the two more modular roles are like capital raising, right?
• 43:26
  Markian Sich: And underwriting.
• 43:27
  Markian Sich: You can, you can be, you can plug into a team like you did on that first one, right?
• 43:31
  Markian Sich: You're like, oh, I'll help you capitalize.
• 43:32
  Markian Sich: Boom, you plugged in.
• 43:33
  Markian Sich: Like you, you can go plug in almost anywhere.
• 43:36
  Markian Sich: Uh, you have to really trust that team.
• 43:38
  Markian Sich: Right to, to, if you wanna raise money for them, you, you better trust that they're not gonna screw over your investors that you're bringing on.
• 43:44
  Markian Sich: Right.
• 43:44
  Markian Sich: And they're hard-earned money.
• 43:45
  Markian Sich: So I, I'm, I'm just going over like, there's a lot of really interesting steps that you were taking here and, and so you joined a team, you saw how the sausage is made, you're officially a general partner, you're doing it and then you find a seven unit, um, which I love because I feel like that's a momentum building moment, right?
• 44:03
  Markian Sich: Like you don't have to go get a 300 unit.
• 44:05
  Markian Sich: You guys got a base hit, you got a rep, oh, and by the way, you're doing a seller finance deal.
• 44:11
  Markian Sich: That doesn't happen right off the bat for everybody.
• 44:13
  Markian Sich: First time, uh, probably way easier to qualify on that loan.
• 44:17
  Markian Sich: Right?
• 44:17
  Markian Sich: And then you have what's called, and a lot of people dunno what this means, a retrade situation.
• 44:23
  Markian Sich: So this is I think, becoming more and more common in, in, in, in how competitive the market is right now.
• 44:29
  Markian Sich: But it used to be like extremely like.
• 44:33
  Markian Sich: Oh, you better not be one of those people that ret trades like brokers hate RET traders.
• 44:37
  Markian Sich: But what that means is you had to go back to the seller and tell'em, yo man, you kind of false advertised.
• 44:44
  Markian Sich: So we're gonna have to, uh, adjust the price here.
• 44:47
  Markian Sich: Right.
• 44:48
  Markian Sich: I just had to retrade$200,000.
• 44:50
  Markian Sich: Guess what?
• 44:50
  Markian Sich: That that seller was cussing me up a storm.
• 44:53
  Markian Sich: But so, so talk me through, so you guys are doing your due diligence.
• 44:56
  Markian Sich: That's the whole point.
• 44:57
  Markian Sich: The due diligence is like, Hey, the thing you said was this way.
• 45:01
  Markian Sich: Is it really this way?
• 45:02
  Markian Sich: So that our numbers still make sense, uh, to ensure that we don't have to retrade, right.
• 45:06
  Markian Sich: So you're walking into this retrade, you can't even get up to the roof.
• 45:08
  Markian Sich: You find out it's terrible compared to what they told you it was.
• 45:12
  Markian Sich: How did that conversation go?
• 45:15
  Mike Goering: It was rough.
• 45:16
  Mike Goering: Um, and luckily I didn't know, I didn't know about re-trading being a bad mark on your record until after the fact.
• 45:22
  Mike Goering: And then I learned that lesson.
• 45:24
  Mike Goering: I was like, that was like literally my first deal.
• 45:26
  Mike Goering: I retraded on.
• 45:27
  Mike Goering: I was like, this is, this is not good.
• 45:29
  Mike Goering: Um,
• 45:29
  Markian Sich: No, I mean, if it's good for a good reason, right.
• 45:32
  Markian Sich: I,
• 45:32
  Mike Goering: it
• 45:33
  Markian Sich: I mean,
• 45:33
  Mike Goering: they clearly took, gave us the age of the roof, told us not to worry about
• 45:37
  Markian Sich: they lied.
• 45:37
  Mike Goering: the, um, yeah.
• 45:39
  Mike Goering: And they're like, and then we got up there and the roof sunk like over half an inch when you stepped on it and you're like right under vent and you're like, we know what that means.
• 45:45
  Mike Goering: So, and.
• 45:47
  Mike Goering: as soon as we bought it, we went up under, underneath.
• 45:49
  Mike Goering: I had to crawl into there and break into our attic and, you know, all the boards were rotten out.
• 45:55
  Mike Goering: So we kind of went
• 45:56
  Markian Sich: I,
• 45:57
  Mike Goering: had to, you know, go back to the pencils, like the math and show'em like, this won't work.
• 46:01
  Mike Goering: Um, you know, it actually ended up almost like I got on the phone.
• 46:07
  Mike Goering: This is kind of interesting.
• 46:08
  Mike Goering: I ended up getting on the phone direct with the seller.
• 46:10
  Mike Goering: Um, like the phone call started with, I don't think this is gonna happen.
• 46:16
  Mike Goering: Um,
• 46:16
  Markian Sich: hmm.
• 46:16
  Mike Goering: should just call it quits.
• 46:18
  Mike Goering: And I was like, well, at that point you're like, what do I got to lose?
• 46:22
  Mike Goering: Um, you know, and so we ended up kind of approaching, um.
• 46:29
  Mike Goering: The purchase price in a different way, because one of the cool things about seller finance is you have a whole different lever to pull when you restructure the deal.
• 46:36
  Mike Goering: And so instead of just taking a haircut on purchase price to pay for the roof, split the difference and then renegotiated the terms of the loans that it worked
• 46:47
  Markian Sich: Uh, guys, and I'm just gonna pause you there again, Mike.
• 46:51
  Markian Sich: I'm sorry.
• 46:51
  Markian Sich: I'm sorry.
• 46:52
  Markian Sich: It's what, this is such a, such an educational moment here.
• 46:55
  Markian Sich: So, uh, seller finance, y'all, what that means is you basically cut out the middleman.
• 47:01
  Markian Sich: You do not need to go to a bank.
• 47:04
  Markian Sich: You imagine you're on, I dunno, Facebook marketplace and somebody selling a lawnmower that you need for$500 and you go to them and you're like, Hey.
• 47:12
  Markian Sich: How about I pay you$550, but I just pay that in$110 installments for five months.
• 47:17
  Markian Sich: Right?
• 47:18
  Markian Sich: That's an example of seller financing.
• 47:20
  Markian Sich: There's no financing.
• 47:21
  Markian Sich: You don't have to go get an Affirm or credit card or whatever.
• 47:25
  Markian Sich: Like, you literally just work directly with the person.
• 47:27
  Markian Sich: It cuts out, it cuts out massive loan fees, origination fees.
• 47:31
  Markian Sich: Um, a a you can also kind of like bypass the typical maybe, uh, restrictions that the lender would put on to ensure that their loan is protected.
• 47:41
  Markian Sich: You can assume all the, I mean, it's a lot.
• 47:43
  Markian Sich: I mean, you better be comfortable at the risk'cause it's, it's all on you at that point.
• 47:47
  Markian Sich: Right.
• 47:48
  Markian Sich: But, um, it's a beautiful thing'cause they, because you can, you can make it into anything you want and, and there's typically two different parts to these deals, right?
• 47:58
  Markian Sich: One is what is the amount of debt, right?
• 48:02
  Markian Sich: Then the other part is how do you pay that debt off?
• 48:06
  Markian Sich: Right.
• 48:07
  Markian Sich: There's an interest rate.
• 48:08
  Markian Sich: There's a, there's a term, there's how long you have.
• 48:11
  Markian Sich: And so what Mike is saying is they, they knew that the seller probably wouldn't be amenable to just like taking a haircut on that price.
• 48:19
  Markian Sich: Right.
• 48:20
  Markian Sich: Which if inevitably affected the debt, but maybe they'd be amenable to how they paid it back, which would still make your numbers work, right, Mike?
• 48:28
  Markian Sich: But, um, basically it was probably more palpable for the seller.
• 48:33
  Markian Sich: Is that right?
• 48:34
  Mike Goering: Yeah.
• 48:34
  Mike Goering: And that, yeah, so we, we really dug into like, he was a retiring guy that was, this was I think his last asset that he was offloading before he retired.
• 48:42
  Mike Goering: So we kind of took that and we were like, well, you want passive income like that.
• 48:47
  Mike Goering: That's the goal here, right?
• 48:48
  Mike Goering: And so we lined
• 48:49
  Markian Sich: Uh.
• 48:50
  Mike Goering: getting paid everything he was gonna get paid if he had continued to own it.
• 48:55
  Mike Goering: 'cause that was kind of his thing was he like, well, I can just raise the rents myself and like, I can, I can force value.
• 49:00
  Mike Goering: And you're like, yeah, but you have to work and take the risk.
• 49:02
  Mike Goering: You're like, we'll just pay you the exact same every month.
• 49:05
  Mike Goering: So we ended up increasing the interest rate by a half point.
• 49:09
  Mike Goering: and then he actually kind of just out of nowhere, like he had heard that we were a little nervous about, it was a three year interest only originally, and we were kind of worried this was in 25.
• 49:21
  Mike Goering: So we're a little worried about what was going on with, with Trump taking office and what three years from now looked like if we were gonna refinance or exit.
• 49:29
  Markian Sich: Mm-hmm.
• 49:29
  Mike Goering: we were just like, Hey, that's, that's a little scary, just not knowing what direction the market's going.
• 49:33
  Mike Goering: Um, it's either gonna be amazing for us or kind of not great.
• 49:38
  Markian Sich: It is a wild card.
• 49:40
  Mike Goering: Yeah, because we had, that was like right in the inflation time and all that.
• 49:44
  Mike Goering: And so it's just like, Hey, like we're a little nervous that we can't predict three years from now.
• 49:48
  Mike Goering: And, and so he is like, well, what if we do five years and you're like.
• 49:51
  Mike Goering: Sweet.
• 49:51
  Mike Goering: So it ended up being a five-year interest only and we're just paying a little bit more
• 49:56
  Markian Sich: Oh, beautiful,
• 49:57
  Mike Goering: Yeah, it
• 49:59
  Markian Sich: beautiful man.
• 50:01
  Markian Sich: No, so actually never say never like, uh, honestly,
• 50:05
  Mike Goering: yep.
• 50:05
  Markian Sich: actually I think that it's now more repeatable and explain why.
• 50:09
  Markian Sich: But first, lemme touch on interest only guys.
• 50:12
  Markian Sich: Uh, some of y'all probably know, but just in case, interest only is an incredible thing.
• 50:16
  Markian Sich: What it, as you, as you know, when you're buying a thing and there's a loan, you have to pay off the, the dang loan itself, right?
• 50:23
  Markian Sich: That's called the principle balance.
• 50:24
  Markian Sich: You actually have to pay the thing down, right?
• 50:27
  Markian Sich: If you ever want to own it.
• 50:28
  Markian Sich: And then you have to pay sometimes, sometimes there's zero interest loans.
• 50:33
  Markian Sich: But, um, you have to pay the actual interest to the lender.
• 50:39
  Markian Sich: In this case, the seller himself was the lender.
• 50:42
  Markian Sich: For letting you borrow the money, right?
• 50:45
  Markian Sich: There's a fee for borrowing the money.
• 50:46
  Markian Sich: I, I know I'm breaking it down straight up Barney style, but some of the Marines are probably appreciating me right now.
• 50:51
  Markian Sich: And so what, what they were able to negotiate was, Hey, for five years we do not want to pay down what we owe you.
• 51:00
  Markian Sich: So let's say it's a million dollars.
• 51:02
  Markian Sich: They're like, we will continue to owe you a million dollars for a full five years, right?
• 51:06
  Markian Sich: But all we're gonna do is we're gonna pay you the interest rate the, and so now half of the monthly, no, maybe a third of the monthly payment was eliminated.
• 51:15
  Markian Sich: So let's say if their monthly payments were$3,000, if it was like what's called an amortized loan, they have to do interest and principle.
• 51:23
  Markian Sich: They got to just cut out the principle and only maybe pay roughly two thirds of what that monthly cost would've been.
• 51:29
  Markian Sich: And so now imagine.
• 51:31
  Markian Sich: Yes, you're not paying down that loan, which I talked about.
• 51:33
  Markian Sich: How incredible, you know, principal pay down is like a reverse savings count.
• 51:36
  Markian Sich: Yes.
• 51:37
  Markian Sich: But in this situation, you're able to like supercharge the appreciation, growth and the cash flow.
• 51:43
  Markian Sich: 'cause now all, because now you have extra money to play with, you have more cushion in case something goes wrong.
• 51:48
  Markian Sich: You guys are at like getting cash flow for yourself and your investors faster.
• 51:53
  Markian Sich: And um, just having that flexibility of that capital to reinvest it into the deal if you need to, um, and maybe even make the property better so that whatever you, you're losing on the principle pay down now, it appreciates faster at a faster rate.
• 52:09
  Markian Sich: Right.
• 52:10
  Markian Sich: Um, it's just, it's, it's just, it's a phenomenal, phenomenal way.
• 52:14
  Markian Sich: It gives you options.
• 52:16
  Markian Sich: Principal pay down is great.
• 52:17
  Markian Sich: But if you don't have to pay off principle, take that every single time.
• 52:22
  Markian Sich: I swear there, there's not a single instance I've come across where it would make sense to pay off principle on real estate.
• 52:28
  Markian Sich: If you don't have to.
• 52:29
  Markian Sich: If you can, if you can avoid having to pay off principle, take that deal every time
• 52:37
  Mike Goering: Oh yeah.
• 52:37
  Mike Goering: Yeah.
• 52:38
  Mike Goering: And that, that really,'cause one of the things we looked at, especially in kind of today's volatile market is like having different ways to exit the deal.
• 52:46
  Mike Goering: Um, and so that really opened the door to like, there's a possibility of a, of a infinite return refinance option.
• 52:54
  Mike Goering: Um, we'll kind of have to see what happens in the market, but don't have a prepayment penalty, so we're just kind of watching rates.
• 53:01
  Mike Goering: And like if there's an option where our value add strategy builds enough equity that we can just go back to the bank and cash
• 53:08
  Markian Sich: and just
• 53:08
  Mike Goering: know, our
• 53:09
  Markian Sich: buy him out and have it for free.
• 53:10
  Markian Sich: I.
• 53:11
  Mike Goering: yeah.
• 53:11
  Mike Goering: Yeah.
• 53:12
  Mike Goering: Then we can see an infant return, right.
• 53:14
  Mike Goering: That, that's now on the table as a possible option.
• 53:17
  Mike Goering: You know?
• 53:17
  Mike Goering: And right now our kind of primary option is, you know, we've, we're executing the value add strategy.
• 53:22
  Mike Goering: I think rents were about 150 on average below market.
• 53:25
  Mike Goering: Um, and so, you know, we're growing our rent basis and then, you know.
• 53:31
  Mike Goering: Cleaning up the operations, cleaning up the books, so it's financeable.
• 53:34
  Mike Goering: Um, but now we have like another option on the table that there's a refinance exit as well, um, to kind of keep holding that property for longer.
• 53:43
  Mike Goering: And so I
• 53:44
  Markian Sich: I love that strategy.
• 53:45
  Mike Goering: properties without multiple exits, you know?
• 53:48
  Mike Goering: Um,
• 53:49
  Markian Sich: Yeah.
• 53:49
  Mike Goering: don't know what'll happen in three years.
• 53:51
  Mike Goering: And, and real estate is a long game.
• 53:54
  Mike Goering: And I think I heard somebody say like, you can sort of count on two outta the five years in a cycle being not great, but you're gonna use the three years that are amazing to pay for the other two if you do it right.
• 54:04
  Mike Goering: And so just didn't wanna have to worry about like, if we land in that bad cycle when we're trying to exit like that, we don't have another option.
• 54:13
  Mike Goering: Um, and
• 54:14
  Markian Sich: Yeah.
• 54:15
  Mike Goering: that was just kind of building in that flexibility, buying down some risk that we have multiple options on our, on our plate.
• 54:22
  Markian Sich: That's a, that's a phenomenal strategy is to think like, okay, so let's go back to like, you know, is it repeatable?
• 54:30
  Markian Sich: I, and, and, and I see, I see actually, I'll, I'll take a chapter out of a wholesaler's book.
• 54:36
  Markian Sich: They actually use past deals as massive leverage and chips that they use, like for, for the negotiation.
• 54:43
  Markian Sich: They'll be like, yeah, I just did this deal over here.
• 54:47
  Markian Sich: Um, here's the seller's number.
• 54:49
  Markian Sich: They loved it.
• 54:50
  Markian Sich: They appre like,'cause if it's non-conventional to somebody like, you did what, how did you, how did you buy that?
• 54:56
  Markian Sich: What is this going?
• 54:57
  Markian Sich: You know what I mean?
• 54:58
  Markian Sich: Uh, especially when they have to like go through a real estate agent, you have to educate the real estate agent who might not know how, you know, wholesaling is a whole different ballgame.
• 55:05
  Markian Sich: But like,
• 55:05
  Mike Goering: Yep.
• 55:05
  Markian Sich: I, I saw this guy, God, I can't remember it, but he was masterful at it.
• 55:09
  Markian Sich: He was just this young dude.
• 55:11
  Markian Sich: He's like, he always had references.
• 55:14
  Markian Sich: He'd be like, yeah, I just did this deal.
• 55:16
  Markian Sich: This, uh, you know, in, in, in the neighboring, uh, in, in the neighboring neighborhood, in the, in the adjacent neighborhood.
• 55:21
  Markian Sich: I did this deal, I did this deal.
• 55:23
  Markian Sich: I, I have all their numbers.
• 55:24
  Markian Sich: If you wanna talk to'em, they'll tell you, I'm reputable, I have a track record.
• 55:27
  Markian Sich: Here's a scheduled real estate owed.
• 55:29
  Markian Sich: And they're just like, oh, okay.
• 55:31
  Markian Sich: So this is a real thing.
• 55:32
  Markian Sich: So what I'm saying is you have this on your, like, this is one of the coolest things ever.
• 55:37
  Markian Sich: You have a seller finance deal where you made, you did right by somebody.
• 55:42
  Markian Sich: They're happy you have that on your resume.
• 55:45
  Markian Sich: They are now a reference for you.
• 55:47
  Markian Sich: So you, you probably actually have a lot more leverage than you think to make this happen again.
• 55:54
  Markian Sich: Does that make sense?
• 55:55
  Mike Goering: yeah, so.
• 55:57
  Mike Goering: What happened next was kind of crazy.
• 55:59
  Markian Sich: Okay.
• 56:00
  Mike Goering: on that.
• 56:01
  Mike Goering: We watched the lessons.
• 56:02
  Mike Goering: Everybody kind of says on the first deal, like, get that thing stabilized before you start chasing the next one.
• 56:07
  Mike Goering: And so I, you know, found another deal that was like, had been on the market for a while, gave me some of the, just looking at the initial numbers, kind of, we have a lot of mom and pops that phoned here for a long time and they're starting to exit.
• 56:19
  Mike Goering: And so it was kind of one of those.
• 56:21
  Mike Goering: and so I reached out to this broker out in Boise and Small world.
• 56:26
  Mike Goering: So I'm talking to him and I'm like, Hey, I, I did the whole like I invest outta state'cause I had that CO GP in Utah, you know, I'm really looking to focus in this market.
• 56:36
  Mike Goering: We just acquired a property here.
• 56:38
  Mike Goering: he was like, oh, which one?
• 56:40
  Mike Goering: And I was like, this one.
• 56:41
  Mike Goering: And he was like, who's the broker on that?
• 56:42
  Mike Goering: I was like, what was Matt?
• 56:43
  Mike Goering: And he was like, oh, no way.
• 56:44
  Mike Goering: He is like, I'm playing golf with Matt later today.
• 56:46
  Mike Goering: Um,
• 56:48
  Markian Sich: Real estate's a small multifamily is a small world.
• 56:50
  Markian Sich: Dude.
• 56:52
  Mike Goering: and that door just flew open.
• 56:54
  Mike Goering: Um.
• 56:56
  Mike Goering: I ended up, you know, doing a, walking through that property sellers weren't ready to do a seller finance on that.
• 57:01
  Mike Goering: They're not, they're not distressed.
• 57:02
  Mike Goering: So they, they actually ended up taking it off market and they're gonna try again later this year, see what rates do.
• 57:07
  Mike Goering: But
• 57:08
  Markian Sich: Dude, be there.
• 57:09
  Markian Sich: Be there knocking.
• 57:11
  Mike Goering: yeah, having closed a deal, you know, now I'm getting all of his off markets.
• 57:17
  Mike Goering: Um, and so he's just feeding me all the off market stuff.
• 57:20
  Mike Goering: He's asking for my opinions on stuff.
• 57:22
  Mike Goering: Even stuff I've told him like we're not interested in.
• 57:24
  Mike Goering: He's like, well, just gimme an opinion so I can go back to the seller.
• 57:27
  Mike Goering: Right.
• 57:27
  Mike Goering: So now we have this mutually beneficial relationship and all of that was because I got one closed.
• 57:33
  Mike Goering: Right.
• 57:33
  Mike Goering: And he's, I've, we looked at another one I don't know how much of this is broker fluff and how much of this is real, but there was another competing initial offer on this one,
• 57:46
  Markian Sich: I had nine on my first one that I was competing against.
• 57:49
  Mike Goering: yeah, well it's a small market.
• 57:51
  Mike Goering: Um,
• 57:52
  Markian Sich: No, I know.
• 57:53
  Markian Sich: I know.
• 57:54
  Mike Goering: I don't know their capital situation.
• 57:56
  Mike Goering: And he's like, I don't trust that they can close.
• 57:58
  Mike Goering: He's like, but I know you can.
• 58:00
  Mike Goering: Right?
• 58:00
  Mike Goering: And so like the power of being able to close, and you guys talk about this a fair amount, both in the cohort and on the podcast, is like they're vetting me to see if I can close and the fact that I closed already and that he knows that I have this huge network that he does.
• 58:14
  Mike Goering: I don't think he knows the name, but he knows I have this huge network of people and then I can just pick up my phone and call somebody to sign on the loan.
• 58:21
  Mike Goering: Um, sees that and knows that I know what I'm talking about.
• 58:24
  Mike Goering: And so he's,
• 58:26
  Markian Sich: You are not talking about a DPI, are you?
• 58:30
  Mike Goering: I don't even know.
• 58:33
  Mike Goering: like he was just like, I don't even care if your offer's lower.
• 58:36
  Mike Goering: He's like, I would still push the seller to yours over his, because I don't know what his capital stack looks like.
• 58:41
  Mike Goering: Um, and like the seller ended up, that one's still on the market.
• 58:45
  Mike Goering: We're, we're waiting for the seller to come around'cause they're not super motivated to sell.
• 58:49
  Mike Goering: It's a really complex situation.
• 58:52
  Mike Goering: Um,
• 58:53
  Markian Sich: You know, I love the word leverage, right?
• 58:56
  Markian Sich: Like, that is one of my favorite words.
• 58:57
  Markian Sich: Just, just because, not because of like, I heard it before.
• 59:00
  Markian Sich: Um, so I, I look at brokers.
• 59:05
  Markian Sich: I mean back to like, Hey, if actually I was talking to, to Seneca about this, like if you, like, selfishly I love helping the team grow in whatever I can help them with because I know if they become better, like that's gonna lift my ship, right?
• 59:21
  Markian Sich: That their tide's gonna lift my ship.
• 59:22
  Markian Sich: And so I also am a big believer that managing people and outcomes, the best way to do that is through like financial incentive period.
• 59:33
  Markian Sich: And, and so I always put myself in the shoes of a, of a broker.
• 59:38
  Markian Sich: What does the broker want?
• 59:40
  Markian Sich: Ultimately the broker is not tied to the deal in any material way except for the acqui, their commission.
• 59:49
  Markian Sich: And so I'm like, at the end of the day, the broker wants the commission.
• 59:53
  Markian Sich: If they're getting a 3% commission on a deal, you know the difference between 6,000,005 and a half million.
• 1:00:01
  Markian Sich: For example, isn't going to be material to them, right?
• 1:00:06
  Markian Sich: That 3% is still gonna be a nice humongous check, and they're not gonna, it's not gonna like, make or break their life, right?
• 1:00:12
  Markian Sich: What is that, 180,000 or 165,000, right?
• 1:00:15
  Markian Sich: Either way, they feel like they're winning, but they want that dang check.
• 1:00:19
  Markian Sich: And so the most important thing for them is confidence of close on the purchase price.
• 1:00:23
  Markian Sich: And they can actually sway the seller, if you know, to, to take a lower offer if they think that they're gonna get their dang commission, right?
• 1:00:32
  Markian Sich: And so, for example, right now I'm doing a deal where I, I am, I'm stacking the deck very heavily in my, in my favor on, on this.
• 1:00:44
  Markian Sich: So first of all, I'm using, I'm, I'm, I'm like not saying it out loud.
• 1:00:49
  Markian Sich: And Kevin, if you're interested, if you're listening to this, you probably, you probably know where I'm coming from.
• 1:00:53
  Markian Sich: He knows that if he goes with me, no matter how tough a situation is, I'm gonna close somewhere.
• 1:00:58
  Markian Sich: Like this past deal was a nightmare.
• 1:01:00
  Markian Sich: And so.
• 1:01:01
  Markian Sich: And to your point, like as soon as I closed, like all of a sudden like three or four, uh, brokers out of the woodwork started emailing, he was like, Hey, I got this one deal.
• 1:01:08
  Markian Sich: Do you want it?
• 1:01:08
  Markian Sich: Do you want do, do you want it?
• 1:01:09
  Markian Sich: I think he'd be the best buyer for it.
• 1:01:11
  Markian Sich: You know, like that, that momentum happens, but like,
• 1:01:14
  Mike Goering: You're always the best.
• 1:01:15
  Mike Goering: Yeah.
• 1:01:15
  Markian Sich: yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:16
  Markian Sich: And then, and, and then, and I told him, I was like, uh, look.
• 1:01:21
  Markian Sich: And he, he was like, uh, maybe, you know, maybe you guys are a little too far off.
• 1:01:24
  Markian Sich: So we sharpened our pencil, we got a little bit closer to the, to the offer price.
• 1:01:27
  Markian Sich: And I was like, dude, just so you know, I have it Prera and it, and, and and, and I was like, so, and then the wait reason I did that is'cause I went and so I reverse engineered that process.
• 1:01:39
  Markian Sich: I went to my investors and I was like, Hey guys, did you know I can get you a better deal if you can show proof of funds through me?
• 1:01:49
  Markian Sich: I was like, let me go to bat.
• 1:01:50
  Markian Sich: I'll go fight for this deal.
• 1:01:53
  Markian Sich: I'll make it a better deal.
• 1:01:54
  Markian Sich: But if I can show somebody.
• 1:01:56
  Markian Sich: That I have it prera, that confidence of close goes up to like 99%.
• 1:02:01
  Markian Sich: So now I have a broker that I've closed with in the past.
• 1:02:03
  Mike Goering: Whew.
• 1:02:05
  Markian Sich: Well, well, and I, I, I have the down payment pre raised.
• 1:02:08
  Markian Sich: Right?
• 1:02:08
  Markian Sich: Not, not, I still have to go through the financing process.
• 1:02:11
  Markian Sich: Yeah.
• 1:02:11
  Markian Sich: I,
• 1:02:11
  Mike Goering: it's the same.
• 1:02:12
  Mike Goering: The same hit as if you were to buy a house cash, like it just
• 1:02:15
  Markian Sich: right, right, right.
• 1:02:18
  Markian Sich: And so they were like, oh, you know, so now I'm like, I'm doing everything I can to make this broker, like,'cause I don't care what people say.
• 1:02:26
  Markian Sich: Like, it's technically gonna be the seller's broker, right.
• 1:02:29
  Markian Sich: I'm not using a broker.
• 1:02:31
  Markian Sich: I'm still, I'm playing chess, man.
• 1:02:33
  Markian Sich: I'm gonna still influence that outcome.
• 1:02:35
  Markian Sich: I'm gonna, you know, I'm doing everything above board.
• 1:02:38
  Markian Sich: But I know if I come in and I say, Hey, I have proof of funds, I like my investors would love to have, you know, 20% IRR versus 15% IRR.
• 1:02:47
  Markian Sich: And if all they have to do is gimme their proof of funds, guess what?
• 1:02:52
  Markian Sich: And so.
• 1:02:53
  Markian Sich: Anyways, it's just, you're talking about capital and conference of close.
• 1:02:56
  Markian Sich: Like it's just all, that's what I'm dealing with right now on my next deal.
• 1:02:59
  Markian Sich: I'm, I'm, I'm, I just, literally, I just got a text 10 minutes into this podcast.
• 1:03:04
  Markian Sich: Kevin, my broker texted me, said, Hey, I submitted the offer on, on another one.
• 1:03:09
  Markian Sich: It's a 92 unit now, but that's the one I was like, dude, I have it pre-funded.
• 1:03:12
  Markian Sich: Like,'cause I got a couple investors that just want to, like, I have a good track record.
• 1:03:17
  Markian Sich: The momentum is spiraling outta control.
• 1:03:19
  Markian Sich: And that's what, that's the next step.
• 1:03:21
  Markian Sich: Um, no, I, I'm not showing off.
• 1:03:23
  Markian Sich: I'm not going.
• 1:03:23
  Markian Sich: I'm just like, I, I feel like that, that what you're going through is literally so similar.
• 1:03:29
  Mike Goering: No, and I think, you know, the broker conversations, that's what I've learned is like show him proof of close that you can do that.
• 1:03:36
  Mike Goering: then the other thing that was really interesting is it's such a small market, so he's the junior broker, um, and his, the senior broker is the number one multifamily transaction guy in Idaho.
• 1:03:49
  Markian Sich: Wow.
• 1:03:50
  Mike Goering: Yeah.
• 1:03:52
  Mike Goering: And he, he like, that's what he, his vision is to be that guy.
• 1:03:57
  Mike Goering: so right now he gets all the small mom and pop deals that the other guy doesn't want, which is my buy box.
• 1:04:03
  Mike Goering: Um, and so we walked through a property and then I was talking to him about like, I had taken a class on urban planning and all this.
• 1:04:11
  Mike Goering: And so I was talking about like the city plans and like the vision for the city and like how I wanted to be involved in that.
• 1:04:17
  Mike Goering: And he basically was like, so you want to own the town?
• 1:04:20
  Mike Goering: And I was like, yeah, kind of.
• 1:04:22
  Markian Sich: Hey.
• 1:04:23
  Markian Sich: Hey, I, I love that you got, like you were saying, have a purpose, right?
• 1:04:29
  Markian Sich: You, you gotta have a big mission, a big vision to, to attract the good people, right?
• 1:04:34
  Markian Sich: Like who, not how, all that stuff.
• 1:04:37
  Mike Goering: Yep.
• 1:04:38
  Mike Goering: And so I am here to change the landscape of this town for the better, right?
• 1:04:42
  Markian Sich: Wow.
• 1:04:42
  Markian Sich: Love that man.
• 1:04:44
  Mike Goering: that's where I've taken that second degree in public administration, which is basically like learning how to talk city.
• 1:04:51
  Mike Goering: And I'm getting
• 1:04:52
  Markian Sich: Oh, it's all coming.
• 1:04:53
  Markian Sich: First circle.
• 1:04:54
  Markian Sich: Okay.
• 1:04:54
  Mike Goering: yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:04:55
  Mike Goering: I see what we did there.
• 1:04:56
  Markian Sich: Full circle here.
• 1:04:57
  Markian Sich: Okay.
• 1:04:57
  Markian Sich: Okay.
• 1:04:59
  Mike Goering: um, you know, it's really like how can I impact the community?
• 1:05:02
  Mike Goering: And that's something, um.
• 1:05:05
  Mike Goering: Coming outta time.
• 1:05:06
  Mike Goering: But one of the things I learned in my first a DP icon, you know, you never know who he's gonna sit next to you when you go to these conferences.
• 1:05:13
  Mike Goering: And I guess I could name drop.
• 1:05:15
  Mike Goering: Um, so Brett Hadley, I, I think you've had him on the podcast.
• 1:05:18
  Mike Goering: He like just sat down next to me in general seating.
• 1:05:21
  Mike Goering: you know, he starts sidebar with me.
• 1:05:23
  Mike Goering: It's my first conference ever.
• 1:05:24
  Mike Goering: So I'm like, bro, be quiet.
• 1:05:25
  Mike Goering: Like the speakers are up there.
• 1:05:26
  Mike Goering: And he's like, starts side baring with me.
• 1:05:28
  Mike Goering: And like, I start hearing like who this guy is and what he does, and I'm like, bro, you are in the wrong section.
• 1:05:34
  Mike Goering: If you're sitting where I'm sitting, like, you have no business being here.
• 1:05:39
  Mike Goering: Um,
• 1:05:40
  Markian Sich: Yeah, he's a pretty prolific investor.
• 1:05:42
  Mike Goering: yeah.
• 1:05:43
  Mike Goering: And so he's, he invests in Wyoming, which is our little neighbor over there in out west.
• 1:05:48
  Mike Goering: You know, miles doesn't really measure distance.
• 1:05:51
  Mike Goering: Um, and so it's like, oh, I, I know where you're from and like, I drive to his town all the time.
• 1:05:54
  Mike Goering: And you're like, so we started talking about that and one of the things he does is he renovates old motels, turns him into.
• 1:06:01
  Mike Goering: Like basically extended stays and then corporate leases into the mining companies.
• 1:06:06
  Markian Sich: Really cool.
• 1:06:07
  Mike Goering: I, a really, really cool strategy.
• 1:06:10
  Mike Goering: Hard to repeat in other markets, but it, he's found a great niche where that works because the mining industry out where he is from is, is blowing up and he's got great boots and ground partner with his brother there.
• 1:06:22
  Mike Goering: But what I really took from that was he was complaining about running out of contractors at one point because the city was bringing him more projects than he could actually renovate at any given time because he's running outta contractors.
• 1:06:36
  Mike Goering: And what I
• 1:06:37
  Markian Sich: What.
• 1:06:37
  Mike Goering: from that was when you take an old motel, we have all seen the eyesore in the towns and you convert that into something beautiful and new, you're adding value to the community.
• 1:06:48
  Mike Goering: And if you can do that,
• 1:06:49
  Markian Sich: Mm.
• 1:06:50
  Mike Goering: the community is going to support you.
• 1:06:53
  Mike Goering: And that has really like
• 1:06:55
  Markian Sich: I
• 1:06:55
  Mike Goering: changed my vision for how I invest to where community is part of my stakeholders.
• 1:07:01
  Mike Goering: If I can support the community's growth patterns and what they're looking for while taking care of my tenants, then my investors are, are, I don't even have to worry about them.
• 1:07:11
  Mike Goering: I know that they're gonna make money.
• 1:07:13
  Mike Goering: Um, so I really look at, at community first.
• 1:07:16
  Mike Goering: And so going back, I don't know if you wanna jump in on that, but it's gonna go back to the broker, kind of how I took that vision to the broker.
• 1:07:23
  Mike Goering: Okay.
• 1:07:23
  Mike Goering: Yeah.
• 1:07:23
  Mike Goering: So
• 1:07:24
  Markian Sich: go for it.
• 1:07:25
  Markian Sich: Yeah.
• 1:07:25
  Markian Sich: Yeah.
• 1:07:25
  Markian Sich: I love that.
• 1:07:26
  Mike Goering: like, painting, painting a whole picture of what the city plans are saying for this town.
• 1:07:30
  Mike Goering: Like what areas I like and why I like'em and like the value add strategy works to support the community.
• 1:07:38
  Mike Goering: what he's hearing is, I've got a guy that's gonna continue to close in this market and just take every deal I give him.
• 1:07:44
  Mike Goering: Right?
• 1:07:45
  Markian Sich: Yes,
• 1:07:46
  Mike Goering: we've literally, we were on the phone a couple weeks ago just doing a follow up on a deal that.
• 1:07:51
  Mike Goering: We're not really interested in because it's too tight.
• 1:07:53
  Mike Goering: Like there's no value add strategy anyway.
• 1:07:57
  Mike Goering: Um, and like it's just kinda like, Hey, you're gonna own the town and I'm gonna help you get there.
• 1:08:02
  Mike Goering: Like,
• 1:08:03
  Markian Sich: dude.
• 1:08:04
  Markian Sich: Yes
• 1:08:04
  Mike Goering: relationship where he's like, at this point we're like, Hey, we're just gonna grow together.
• 1:08:09
  Mike Goering: Um, and it's, it's one of those, like, he's been pretty transparent about his goals.
• 1:08:14
  Mike Goering: They're lofty too.
• 1:08:15
  Mike Goering: And so like we've really found a great relationship in that to where I know that every deal he has in this town, he's gonna send me.
• 1:08:22
  Markian Sich: dude.
• 1:08:22
  Markian Sich: Uh, I, it's so crazy'cause I've literally had that same conversation with my broker except for, you know, uh, Anderson is probably a bigger town.
• 1:08:31
  Markian Sich: I don't know, but there's this, uh, Eastern.
• 1:08:33
  Mike Goering: For
• 1:08:34
  Markian Sich: Uh, side of it where there's a north, south street, uh, road.
• 1:08:37
  Markian Sich: It's like a main road.
• 1:08:38
  Markian Sich: It's like the main strip.
• 1:08:39
  Markian Sich: The Lowe's, the McDonald's, the Walmarts are all there, right?
• 1:08:42
  Markian Sich: Like everything's on this thing.
• 1:08:44
  Markian Sich: A lot of my tenants, by the way, they walk to all this, like, where all, all those, uh, businesses, right?
• 1:08:48
  Markian Sich: So, um, and, and that's kind of like where I wanna get at least three or four on that road and then expand a little bit, but still stay in the same, you know, one hour radius.
• 1:08:58
  Markian Sich: And, um, I told him straight up, like on this last deal, I was like, I want to acquire 12 over the next five years.
• 1:09:05
  Markian Sich: Like, that is the goal.
• 1:09:06
  Markian Sich: So I already have two, I have to do two a year.
• 1:09:08
  Markian Sich: Now I'm gonna have 12.
• 1:09:11
  Markian Sich: Like, I don't know why I chose 12.
• 1:09:13
  Markian Sich: I just, I had to, I had to pick a number in my head, but I was like, I'm gonna get 12 C class properties, maybe B class, uh, you know, somewhere up to a hundred units ish is kind of the sweet spot.
• 1:09:25
  Markian Sich: Just the economics of, like, I, I, I'm able to get, get a full-time maintenance guy full-time onsite property.
• 1:09:32
  Markian Sich: Uh.
• 1:09:32
  Markian Sich: Manager, or at least like leasing assistant, and I can just scale from there.
• 1:09:36
  Markian Sich: And I'm just like that, that's my razor sharp buy box.
• 1:09:41
  Markian Sich: And, and he knows exactly what to look for me now, because now, now I basically infiltrated his reticular activating system.
• 1:09:47
  Markian Sich: Now he's got goggles on looking for things for me.
• 1:09:50
  Markian Sich: He knows exactly what I'm looking for.
• 1:09:51
  Markian Sich: You know what I mean?
• 1:09:52
  Mike Goering: Use using some advanced, uh, psychology terms there.
• 1:09:56
  Mike Goering: I love it.
• 1:09:56
  Mike Goering: I love the Raz.
• 1:09:57
  Mike Goering: That's the coolest thing ever.
• 1:10:00
  Markian Sich: Dude, I, I, I, ever since I, I learned about it from, I think Rod Cleef.
• 1:10:04
  Markian Sich: I was like, I see it.
• 1:10:06
  Markian Sich: Once you see it, you can't unsee it.
• 1:10:08
  Markian Sich: You know?
• 1:10:08
  Markian Sich: Like, I'm like, uh, it's literally how I, I expect, I was just talking to Cenic about this.
• 1:10:15
  Markian Sich: I love not only influencing my own self to notice things like you're programming your brain.
• 1:10:21
  Markian Sich: I like influencing the team and then having the team.
• 1:10:25
  Markian Sich: Like it's, I, I called it like a pressure cooker focus.
• 1:10:28
  Markian Sich: It's like everybody's like, that's what people have.
• 1:10:30
  Markian Sich: You're gonna start seeing that red car everywhere if that's what you're looking for.
• 1:10:33
  Markian Sich: You know what I mean?
• 1:10:34
  Markian Sich: So, uh, anyway, so cool, man.
• 1:10:38
  Markian Sich: Like there's so many parallels to your journey and what I'm doing right now too.
• 1:10:40
  Markian Sich: So I, I, um, I love comparing notes.
• 1:10:43
  Markian Sich: I love that you're doing a, um, a seller finance deal.
• 1:10:47
  Markian Sich: I think you'll be able to probably do more in the near future.
• 1:10:50
  Markian Sich: Um, so please keep sharing that with the community.
• 1:10:53
  Markian Sich: Um, we talked a little bit about purpose, but do you want to, do you wanna double down on that, uh, anymore?
• 1:10:58
  Markian Sich: 'cause like you have a, you have a, some pretty solid people in your life, right?
• 1:11:01
  Markian Sich: And.
• 1:11:04
  Mike Goering: Yeah, so purpose is an interesting, I was, I was talking to somebody the other day'cause we're designing a, a veterans transition kind of thing for the community.
• 1:11:13
  Mike Goering: One of the arms is gonna be entrepreneurship.
• 1:11:15
  Mike Goering: And so I saw that as a great opportunity to impact my community and veterans as well and kind of just grow what we're doing here.
• 1:11:23
  Mike Goering: And you know, if I, if I really wanna change the community, I'm gonna need some help, so why not go recruit some help?
• 1:11:28
  Mike Goering: Um, and you
• 1:11:30
  Markian Sich: Sure.
• 1:11:30
  Mike Goering: to her about transition process and like finding your purpose in that.
• 1:11:36
  Mike Goering: and so she was like, well, can you like walk somebody through how to do that?
• 1:11:39
  Mike Goering: And I was like, I don't know.
• 1:11:40
  Mike Goering: I was like, because I read like, I don't know how many books I read since I got out, but I've just been reading a ton.
• 1:11:45
  Mike Goering: Like every single day I did the whole how, how Rod thing.
• 1:11:48
  Mike Goering: So now I read every morning, um.
• 1:11:51
  Mike Goering: You're like, it's probably like pieces from everything, but I was like, it's also just life, right?
• 1:11:56
  Mike Goering: So like, for me to find my individual purpose, it was, it started with teaching, like the greatest thing the Army probably did, well, one of the top five for the Army is they put me into an instructor role and I got to stand in front of a classroom and shape the future lieutenants of the army.
• 1:12:12
  Mike Goering: And I found that deeply meaningful and fulfilling to like, educate.
• 1:12:18
  Mike Goering: and so I started to like kind of pick up on that as I just reflected on like who I am and what I enjoy, like what I find fulfilling.
• 1:12:25
  Mike Goering: Um, and so I picked up on people, like helping and mentoring people.
• 1:12:28
  Mike Goering: It was like a huge part of me.
• 1:12:30
  Mike Goering: And then, you know, I'm grateful to have done the house flip.
• 1:12:35
  Mike Goering: Um, that's where kind of the second half of my mission came in is I, you know, you, I don't know if you've done a house flip, but I did it all myself, which
• 1:12:43
  Markian Sich: and flip kind of.
• 1:12:44
  Markian Sich: And I didn't have to do much work'cause it was anyway.
• 1:12:48
  Mike Goering: Anyway, if you do it all yourself, you have some very long days, uh, where you're just kind of alone with yourself thinking because drywall and paint are not exciting tasks.
• 1:12:56
  Mike Goering: Um, and I remember kind of like that, you know, uh, gap in the game kind of moment where I was like looking at a room that was coming back to life.
• 1:13:06
  Mike Goering: Um, and it, that was a deeply fulfilling moment for me to watch New Life come into This house is a 1944 build.
• 1:13:14
  Mike Goering: So
• 1:13:15
  Markian Sich: Hmm.
• 1:13:15
  Mike Goering: talking about almost a hundred year old house, which for the West is very old.
• 1:13:19
  Mike Goering: Um, and watching that come back to life in a whole new way and I was like, that's so fulfilling to see.
• 1:13:25
  Mike Goering: And it like, that's where I kind of like just landed it on a really simple purpose.
• 1:13:29
  Mike Goering: That's my purpose is to make the things and people around me better.
• 1:13:34
  Mike Goering: And so I, that through, you know, at teaching and then, you know, really through real estate is where I get the things, where I want to see a community grow and become better.
• 1:13:45
  Mike Goering: And like that to me was really huge.
• 1:13:47
  Mike Goering: And when I, I think what's really interesting is now that I've landed on that, it's like every cohort that'll somehow come up, like my purpose.
• 1:13:55
  Mike Goering: And every time I project that, like community purpose, um, and that, that's what drives me is like making the community better and improving tenant's lives while also, you know, doing the education stuff and all that.
• 1:14:09
  Mike Goering: Somebody will reach out to me.
• 1:14:11
  Mike Goering: Like every time, like without fail, somebody will hit me up in the dms and circle and be like, Hey, heard what you said?
• 1:14:17
  Mike Goering: I think we're in values alignment.
• 1:14:19
  Mike Goering: Love to hear what you're doing.
• 1:14:21
  Mike Goering: Like, let's, and then
• 1:14:22
  Markian Sich: So cool.
• 1:14:23
  Mike Goering: right?
• 1:14:23
  Mike Goering: And like that clarity just attracts and like, and those are the people I wanna attract.
• 1:14:29
  Mike Goering: Like I.
• 1:14:30
  Mike Goering: You know, at the, the hero status now, like I get tons of people reaching out, love it, still great conversations, but the ones that reach out that are connected to who I am, and they feel that that connection, like those are the best phone calls because they're, we already have like deep down core inside of us, we have shared values.
• 1:14:51
  Mike Goering: And those are just different conversations than the like, Hey, I'm interested in multifamily.
• 1:14:55
  Mike Goering: What, what do you have to say?
• 1:14:56
  Mike Goering: Like, and so i's, it's been really cool to attract exactly who I'm looking for in addition to
• 1:15:04
  Markian Sich: Hmm.
• 1:15:04
  Mike Goering: right?
• 1:15:04
  Mike Goering: And so that's been like really cool to kind of have this freedom in my life to get, to really explore who I am and what I'm here for.
• 1:15:13
  Mike Goering: And then, like, now that I have that, I'm using that as a lever to attract the right people into my circle.
• 1:15:21
  Markian Sich: I need to pull up a quote.
• 1:15:25
  Markian Sich: Um, because what you're mentioning is essentially, and, and by the way, if you gotta go,'cause I know we we're kind of going over, let me know, but, but I'm good.
• 1:15:34
  Markian Sich: So, um, God, where was this actually, I know where it was.
• 1:15:38
  Markian Sich: I have to look through all my AI bots, right?
• 1:15:41
  Markian Sich: Um, so there's this guy named Caleb Broten, I think I'm pronouncing it right.
• 1:15:46
  Markian Sich: He was the, uh, basically creative director for, I dunno, like Alex for mosey, Gary VA lot of really big people.
• 1:15:56
  Markian Sich: And, um, he, he's, he's a personal brand engineer, like just specialist, right?
• 1:16:02
  Markian Sich: Um, I mean, he released like a six hour masterclass on, on YouTube for free.
• 1:16:07
  Markian Sich: Like, who does a six hour video on YouTube?
• 1:16:10
  Markian Sich: Like he, but it is like soup to nuts, full production, massive value.
• 1:16:16
  Markian Sich: And he talked about, uh, so there's the four steps, and I just like, I, I think it's interesting because what's happening to you is like literally following along in what, what his four steps are is like, you have to decide what your desired outcome is first, right?
• 1:16:30
  Markian Sich: So you, you, okay, what clearly define like the specific result you want in your personal brand, right?
• 1:16:35
  Markian Sich: You want premium clients or do you want speaking gigs, or do you wanna do, you know, commercial real estate in Idaho, whatever.
• 1:16:40
  Markian Sich: Then what would you need to be known for to make that outcome inevitable?
• 1:16:46
  Markian Sich: So like.
• 1:16:48
  Markian Sich: He, he, he's basically saying like, there, there's no fluff to this.
• 1:16:51
  Markian Sich: You actually have to do the things.
• 1:16:52
  Markian Sich: He is, like, identify the reputation or position that would naturally lead to that desired outcome.
• 1:16:57
  Markian Sich: Right.
• 1:16:57
  Markian Sich: So, so what association or expertise must people have with you?
• 1:17:02
  Markian Sich: You know, maybe you're the go-to expert to scaling gyms, or in this case you're the go-to expert.
• 1:17:07
  Markian Sich: Like you want to own that town in Idaho, right?
• 1:17:09
  Markian Sich: So what would you need to be known for to have that desired outcome?
• 1:17:13
  Markian Sich: Well, you have to be known for is the guy who wants to buy the town.
• 1:17:16
  Markian Sich: And then, well, what actions must you take?
• 1:17:18
  Markian Sich: So now it's step three.
• 1:17:18
  Markian Sich: What actions must you take to be recognized for that?
• 1:17:22
  Markian Sich: Okay, well in, well I guess you probably have to start buying some dang real estate, right?
• 1:17:28
  Markian Sich: And you probably have, so outline the specific behaviors, the content types or the activities you need to consistently do and earn the reputation, right?
• 1:17:36
  Markian Sich: And you, you can't hide behind this.
• 1:17:38
  Markian Sich: Like, you're like, oh wait.
• 1:17:40
  Markian Sich: If I wanna be known for be for, for owning a lot, like being a real estate mogul, I, I don't really like that word, but you know what I mean?
• 1:17:46
  Markian Sich: And, and I, and I want to revitalize this town.
• 1:17:49
  Markian Sich: I don't wanna just own it.
• 1:17:50
  Markian Sich: I wanna like revamp it, I wanna make it better.
• 1:17:54
  Markian Sich: Then that means I actually have to do things.
• 1:17:56
  Markian Sich: I can't just do lip service and then reverse engineering that one step back.
• 1:18:01
  Markian Sich: What skills or knowledge do you need to learn to execute on those actions?
• 1:18:05
  Markian Sich: Right?
• 1:18:05
  Markian Sich: It's, it's like, it's literally Marine Corps proof.
• 1:18:07
  Markian Sich: It's like Barney sell.
• 1:18:08
  Markian Sich: Okay, well, what do you have to learn?
• 1:18:10
  Markian Sich: So it all starts with that.
• 1:18:11
  Markian Sich: Like, that's why a DPI is so passionate about education.
• 1:18:13
  Markian Sich: It was like, you gotta learn how this business works.
• 1:18:15
  Markian Sich: If you want to buy real estate, if you want to be known for revitalizing a community and, and, and whatever your, your, your mission is.
• 1:18:24
  Markian Sich: And, and so now you did the thing, right?
• 1:18:27
  Markian Sich: You literally did the actions.
• 1:18:30
  Markian Sich: So now you're known for is the guy in Idaho that wants to revitalize and own a town?
• 1:18:34
  Markian Sich: Yeah.
• 1:18:35
  Markian Sich: And you're going towards that desired outcome.
• 1:18:37
  Markian Sich: And so now people are reaching, you're, you've literally your personal brand.
• 1:18:40
  Markian Sich: You are a walking, talking, breathing business has become a magnet for you.
• 1:18:44
  Markian Sich: People are coming to you, like you're saying, people are reaching out just because you're doing all those steps.
• 1:18:49
  Markian Sich: Anyways, I was just like, as you were describing, I was like, oh, he's, he's, he had a desired outcome.
• 1:18:53
  Markian Sich: He, he's like, well, what did I, what do I have to do to get to that outcome?
• 1:18:57
  Markian Sich: You know?
• 1:18:57
  Markian Sich: And he's just like, reverse engineered it.
• 1:18:59
  Markian Sich: So, uh, dang, I just went on a rampage.
• 1:19:01
  Markian Sich: I'm sorry.
• 1:19:03
  Mike Goering: you, no, that was, that was fantastic.
• 1:19:05
  Mike Goering: And you, you make me sound smarter than I am.
• 1:19:07
  Mike Goering: Uh, I've just been kind of winging this, but glad that it coincided with some steps as somebody smarter than me.
• 1:19:13
  Mike Goering: Um,
• 1:19:13
  Markian Sich: No, I mean,
• 1:19:14
  Mike Goering: but
• 1:19:14
  Markian Sich: what, yeah, it doesn't, like you did the things that, that is very admirable.
• 1:19:20
  Markian Sich: You did the things that, that, that's 90% of it.
• 1:19:24
  Mike Goering: that's been really like, I think we've talked a lot about branding at the conferences and things, and like that's, you know, how do I become unique?
• 1:19:32
  Mike Goering: And I've really just overthinking and just kind of been like, who am I?
• 1:19:38
  Mike Goering: And then just kind of doubled down on that.
• 1:19:40
  Mike Goering: Like, values are deeply ingrained in me.
• 1:19:44
  Mike Goering: Um, and so like I've really that.
• 1:19:47
  Mike Goering: My purpose or my passion for real estate in certain markets, and then my values for helping the community and not being a slum lord, and like extracting money outta my tenants.
• 1:19:57
  Mike Goering: Like that, those are true to me.
• 1:19:58
  Mike Goering: And so like makes saying no really easy.
• 1:20:03
  Mike Goering: because when I get a
• 1:20:04
  Markian Sich: Yes,
• 1:20:05
  Mike Goering: of my passion.
• 1:20:06
  Mike Goering: It's really easy to say no.
• 1:20:07
  Mike Goering: Um,
• 1:20:09
  Markian Sich: it's freeing.
• 1:20:10
  Markian Sich: Uh,
• 1:20:11
  Mike Goering: which is a really important lesson to learn.
• 1:20:13
  Mike Goering: Um, like
• 1:20:14
  Markian Sich: one of the biggest distractions is deals.
• 1:20:17
  Markian Sich: Deals that don't fit your buy box.
• 1:20:18
  Markian Sich: Yeah.
• 1:20:19
  Mike Goering: last, last male recon we got that's new income.
• 1:20:21
  Mike Goering: Talk about a DU developments and you're like, dude, that is an awesome strategy.
• 1:20:26
  Mike Goering: like, but it's not mine.
• 1:20:28
  Markian Sich: Right, right, right.
• 1:20:30
  Markian Sich: And he's like, you know, you, you, you, you hear him having a hundred million dollars worth of real estate and a hundred thousand dollars worth of cashflow, and you're like, dang.
• 1:20:37
  Markian Sich: Maybe he's, you know, um, Eric and I say sometimes like just, you know, um, enjoy the boredom.
• 1:20:45
  Markian Sich: Like, it's good.
• 1:20:46
  Markian Sich: It's almost, it's one of those green flags.
• 1:20:48
  Markian Sich: It's like, oh wait, your next deal is boring.
• 1:20:51
  Markian Sich: Huh?
• 1:20:52
  Markian Sich: That is such a green flag.
• 1:20:55
  Markian Sich: It means you're on the right path.
• 1:20:57
  Markian Sich: Like, you're doing something like that means you're getting better at something.
• 1:21:00
  Markian Sich: So now next step is the Olympics baby.
• 1:21:03
  Markian Sich: You know, you hit varsity.
• 1:21:04
  Markian Sich: Let's, let's keep, let's keep getting better.
• 1:21:06
  Markian Sich: You think, you think the Olympians love, you know, like getting on that bounce beam 5,000 times, it is boring as hell probably, but, but getting that gold medal isn't, you know, so, um.
• 1:21:18
  Markian Sich: Yeah.
• 1:21:19
  Markian Sich: Gosh.
• 1:21:20
  Markian Sich: Yeah.
• 1:21:20
  Markian Sich: I, I, I don't know.
• 1:21:21
  Markian Sich: It's just, it's, it, it, it's really cool.
• 1:21:24
  Markian Sich: Again, it's been an absolute pleasure listening to your story.
• 1:21:27
  Markian Sich: Um, and, and I, and I love that it fulfills you to help teach future generations.
• 1:21:32
  Markian Sich: I mean, that is what you're doing.
• 1:21:34
  Markian Sich: It, I, I, I pinch myself all the time.
• 1:21:36
  Markian Sich: 'cause like I said, like here I am, I started like a, a, a website and a Facebook group and recorded some lessons in, in, in my office, nook in San Diego.
• 1:21:44
  Markian Sich: And next thing I know, I have people that are like doing it at scale, this mission of like helping the military find the non-standard way to exit the military, right.
• 1:21:56
  Markian Sich: The, hey, the not Gs job, the not, uh, you know, feeling pigeonholed and just having to, to, I don't know, be in a cubicle necessarily.
• 1:22:06
  Markian Sich: I mean, sometimes that is a, that is a stepping stone.
• 1:22:08
  Markian Sich: That is, you know, you have to take some sacrifices along the way, but having something else, and, uh, I, I, I know I take a lot of pleasure in, in trying to like.
• 1:22:18
  Markian Sich: Show people what's possible.
• 1:22:19
  Markian Sich: And, and I think it's really cool that that's what you're doing for all of our cohort students coming through.
• 1:22:24
  Markian Sich: Um, I don't know.
• 1:22:26
  Markian Sich: Mike, do you have any parting words for, for any?
• 1:22:28
  Markian Sich: Like maybe, uh, like, I don't know if you want people to reach out to you or like, um, anything else before we wrap up?
• 1:22:36
  Mike Goering: I mean, I I, feel like we've talked about it, like I'm, I'm here to, to help others.
• 1:22:41
  Mike Goering: Um, that's, that's core to who I am and I, you know, that, that's what gives me fulfillment.
• 1:22:46
  Mike Goering: And so, yeah, I, I would love to chat with people and, and see where I can help in the journey that they're, they're telling and, you know, hopefully get them on the podcast here in a couple years, um, hearing all the crazy things they've done.
• 1:22:59
  Mike Goering: Um,
• 1:23:00
  Markian Sich: Yeah,
• 1:23:00
  Mike Goering: reach out.
• 1:23:01
  Mike Goering: I think, uh, you know, LinkedIn works, Mike Gehring at LinkedIn, and then, uh, Mike
• 1:23:07
  Markian Sich: yeah.
• 1:23:07
  Markian Sich: Lemme just spell that'cause I don't even think I said your name out loud.
• 1:23:10
  Markian Sich: Like I said, keep calling you Mike.
• 1:23:11
  Markian Sich: I apologize to Gary.
• 1:23:12
  Markian Sich: Uh, it is.
• 1:23:13
  Markian Sich: G it looks like Go Ring, right?
• 1:23:15
  Markian Sich: Like G-O-E-R-I-N-G, Gehring.
• 1:23:19
  Markian Sich: Um,
• 1:23:19
  Mike Goering: Yep.
• 1:23:20
  Markian Sich: yeah.
• 1:23:20
  Markian Sich: And so LinkedIn and, and um, and I mean, yeah.
• 1:23:23
  Markian Sich: And, and if you guys join a DPI, he's there.
• 1:23:26
  Markian Sich: Yeah.
• 1:23:26
  Markian Sich: Email.
• 1:23:26
  Markian Sich: Go for it.
• 1:23:27
  Mike Goering: sure.
• 1:23:27
  Mike Goering: Yeah.
• 1:23:27
  Mike Goering: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:23:28
  Mike Goering: I mean campus and then email is just Mike at Mountain Ground.
• 1:23:31
  Mike Goering: Uh, and then I'll do phonetic spelling INV, so India, Victor, November for I, uh, mountain ground investing.com.
• 1:23:38
  Markian Sich: Oh, INV.
• 1:23:39
  Markian Sich: Okay, got it.
• 1:23:40
  Mike Goering: to put Yep.
• 1:23:40
  Mike Goering: Yeah.
• 1:23:41
  Mike Goering: Yeah.
• 1:23:42
  Mike Goering: So
• 1:23:42
  Markian Sich: put in the show notes.
• 1:23:43
  Markian Sich: No worries.
• 1:23:43
  Mike Goering: Yep.
• 1:23:44
  Mike Goering: Perfect.
• 1:23:44
  Mike Goering: Yeah.
• 1:23:44
  Mike Goering: Yeah.
• 1:23:45
  Mike Goering: I already sent that.
• 1:23:46
  Mike Goering: Yeah.
• 1:23:46
  Mike Goering: So, yeah.
• 1:23:47
  Mike Goering: Perfect.
• 1:23:48
  Mike Goering: Yeah, reach out.
• 1:23:49
  Mike Goering: Happy to connect with people.
• 1:23:50
  Mike Goering: Share.
• 1:23:50
  Mike Goering: I've made tons of mistakes.
• 1:23:52
  Mike Goering: Not necessarily financial, but just not being as focused as I should be.
• 1:23:56
  Mike Goering: And, and that's gotten me to where I am, but now I want to kind of get back and help people shortcut that path that I took the long way on, um, so that they can get to their dreams sooner.
• 1:24:06
  Mike Goering: Um, yeah.
• 1:24:09
  Markian Sich: Awesome.
• 1:24:10
  Markian Sich: Hey y'all, thank you for tuning in.
• 1:24:12
  Markian Sich: I'm just gonna.
• 1:24:13
  Markian Sich: Say the, the new thing that I'm trying to rem remind myself to say is, uh, give us a little donation.
• 1:24:19
  Markian Sich: You don't have to like, or subscribe, just share this with the world.
• 1:24:22
  Markian Sich: If this was impactful to you, think about paying it forward.
• 1:24:25
  Markian Sich: Share this episode on any social media, text, email that you can.
• 1:24:30
  Markian Sich: Uh, Mike's story is incredibly inspiring, and if who knows who's who, like, like he listened to the podcast, I mean, I'm not trying to toot my own horn.
• 1:24:39
  Markian Sich: It doesn't matter what podcast, what book.
• 1:24:41
  Markian Sich: If you have something that you think will help somebody share it.
• 1:24:43
  Markian Sich: So in this case, if this was impactful to you, please share it.
• 1:24:46
  Markian Sich: Help contribute to the A DPI mission of impacting 3 million military families.
• 1:24:51
  Markian Sich: Thank you so much, Mike, for being here.
• 1:24:52
  Markian Sich: Thank you for being an A DPI hero and coach.
• 1:24:55
  Markian Sich: Massively appreciate it.
• 1:24:57
  Markian Sich: Um, and that's it.
• 1:24:58
  Markian Sich: That's a wrap.
• 1:24:58
  Markian Sich: Thank you everybody.
• 1:25:00
  Markian Sich: All right.