Latest / Daisy’s mini rants / When Trust Breaks: Can a Team Ever Get It Back?
Transcript
- Daisy: Yeah, I can hear you. David Lengyel: Great, good. And Daisy, where where are you located? Daisy: I David Lengyel: and what do you do when you're not podcasting? Daisy: I am a photographer. David Lengyel: What do you do? Daisy: Photography. David Lengyel: Interesting. Right on. Excellent. How long have you had the podcast? Daisy: just a couple of months, like two months. Yes. David Lengyel: so it's yeah, so you're on it it's like an adventure for ya. Daisy: Yeah, exactly. David Lengyel: Well, it's the right thing at the right time with AI, so it's great. Daisy: Thank you very much. Hi, welcome to my podcast. please can you just introduce yourself to my audience? David Lengyel: So my name is David Langell, and I'm with Venture Up. And we specialize in team building and leadership development programs. We work with small and large groups, and we we basically play games, but those games are hopefully fun and they're metaphors for different types of leadership skills, communications, effectiveness, creating accountability, and all those types of things. Daisy: That's great. That's really, really nice. I read your profile and I saw that you've been in this for about f four decades. Yeah, that's David Lengyel: time. Daisy: so impressive. okay, so let me just get straight to it. So one thing that drew me to your bio was when you spoke about Team building, right? How why teams feel and why some work, even though they have good intentions, good skills, good talents. And it's David Lengyel: Okay. Daisy: resonated with me because I know I'm talented, yeah. And when I was younger I used to have this thrill, this enthusiasm to want to work with the team. I I really loved it because I loved pouring my all into it. I loved making something work, you know. And now I feel like that drive die the little bit and I don't really enjoy working with teams as much as I want to. Maybe initially it's like there's like this adrenaline and over some time I just it just dies, you know. And most times I don't really know what causes it. I try my best but I just keep going back to it. So I don't know. can you tell David Lengyel: Yeah. it's it's interesting because people don't naturally like to be on teams so much. obviously we team up for security, but the reality is is that I don't care if it's through grade school, high school, maybe college, or certainly into jobs and so forth, we're kind of we're kind of raised for individual performance, right? You're responsible, you get rewarded in how well you do. It has nothing to do with working with others, and then all of a sudden you get into a corporate world. And the whole idea is that, no, now you got to work with other people. And and that's not really the way we're we're geared. And Daisy: Yeah. David Lengyel: so, but but teams in general, I mean, you get people into jobs and so forth, and let's just assume most people are good at what they do. That's why they got hired. They have a certain strength, right? And most people want to do a good job. But the problem is that everybody has different dreams and different definitions and different levels of commitment. And so teams ultimately are gonna be a reflection of the management around them. So, you have a bunch of people that have got all these differences, and those differences can be really powerful, but they can also create conflict because we basically wanna do things our way. We wanna just get going, we'll all get busy, right? Daisy: Yeah. David Lengyel: And so when teams struggle, it has definitely a reflection of the leadership around them. What kind of stage is being set, how clear is the leadership being? And how are they actually managing that team to be more successful and to feel that individually, even though they bring a lot, they can all accomplish so much more. But like I said, it's it's strictly always when we hear teams are struggling, we look at management first. It's not about personal commitment so much. Daisy: Okay, but what if the management is also trying to reach out but it feels like you personally have disconnected from the flow of things. So what w what do you do then? David Lengyel: Yeah, so and obviously it's really easy to say, well, it's all somebody else's fault. But the whole point is I can't change you. And this is what managers have to understand. I can't change the way you listen, I can't change the way you interact. if you've got a personality issue with somebody else, I can't change that. But what I can do is lead by example and I can set the rules and I can create as much clarity as possible in terms of how we're gonna move forward. the there's a lot to it. The point is that number one, people don't like chaos. They like to know what the the rules are within the game that they're playing. That can be the job or whatever. Number two, everybody needs three things. And I don't care if you're a manager, I don't care if you're a founder, I don't care if you're somebody new to an organization. I don't care if you're in high school. Everybody needs three things. They need something to work on, they need something to believe in, which means they have to believe their work is important, has value. And they need to have something to look forward to. They just need those three things. And if managers and the managers need that too. And so the point is, is if I realize everybody needs those things, then I need to make sure I can help satisfy them. You're not going to give them all those things with a job because people are going to get it from a combination of family and friends, but then also the work they do. And so, every job is different, every requirements are different. But again, I don't care if you're in high school, I don't care if you're in college, I don't care if you're working. We have to look at well, are those three things being satisfied? And so now you take a team of people. Well, everybody again brings different body of different dreams and diversity and all that type of stuff to the team. They have different skills, they have different experiences, different emotions, personalities, but they all need those three things. And so as a manager, we need to satisfy those things so then we can amplify that together they can accomplish so much more. it's like the old story of Michael Jordan, the basketball player, who got really famous, of course. he was an incredible star in high school. But the whole point is is that as he got into into the professional world of basketball, he had to learn that he could do that much more if he relied on other people. Because up to that point it was all about him. And he was always on the soapbox. But the point is he was able to scale even more and even excel more. when you started relying on other people that had more s just as much skill. Daisy: That's very, very true. So what would you say is the biggest communication mistake leaders make and how can they fix it? David Lengyel: Yeah, there's there's a lot to that because communications is definitely the foundation of everything. Without good communications, again, I don't care if we're talking about a family. I don't care if we're talking about a corporate team. Without good communications, we don't, of course, create any trust. We don't create any alignment. We don't have any consistency, honesty. so communications is a big part of it because number one, we all think we're so good at it, because we do it all day long. Right? We're talking to people, Daisy: Mm-hmm. David Lengyel: we're having meetings, we're sending emails. We all think we're always the best. hey and then we blame others if there's a problem. But the problem but the but the challenge is is that we all really need to work at it. communications is complicated. It doesn't mean it's difficult, but you just have to understand how it works. And and you know, it's not just me talking and you listening, it's making sure that what you hear is what I'm saying. And that's the big challenge. it's but it's easy to fix because so often there's a disconnect. people get busy, they get lazy, they don't think it's important. So there's a lot to it. The point is, number one, the more familiar I am with a subject, or the more experience I have with a subject, the more I have a tendency to minimize the communications around it. So if you think about a manager or a leader, they have certain levels of experience. A lot of times the team doesn't, and they're asking the team to do things. But they're just saying, you know what I mean, you know what I mean, or just take care of it as normal, whatever it is, but they're minimizing the communications. And if the team doesn't really get all the information, then they're gonna fill in those assumptions with with you know, they're gonna fill in the blanks with assumptions in terms Daisy: Yeah. David Lengyel: of what they're supposed to do. And that's where they run into problems. You know, most communications or they say most problems are based in two little problems. And most problems, 70% of them, are based in communications. So 70% of our problems are usually a communication issue. There's two little challenges. I thought you were going to do this, or I thought you want me to do that. It's just that simple. If you really think about most problems you run into, it's an expectation that wasn't fulfilled, or a misunderstanding of what you thought was going to happen. Daisy: Yeah. David Lengyel: I it's a really amazing if you really give us some thought. Most problems are based in a lack of understanding or an expectation that wasn't understood. Okay? And that's a really easy thing because we can fix that really simple. If I'm talking to you and I'm asking you to take care of something, when I'm done, all I need to do is say, Well, now let me make sure, you know, tell me what I just said. What are you going to do? And then let the person give it back to you. Because you'd be amazed how often they can't do that. And it's not that they're not paying attention. A lot of times I'm too busy or I'm rushed or I'm not being clear in terms of what I need you to really do. So it's all about me. I'm the one who's got to make sure you're I'm clear. The other side of it, if I'm if I'm speaking with you, you could always say, Let me make sure I understand what you just said. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And just again, repeat it. Because if you really think about it. under high risk situations like like a plane being landed, a pilot and the tower. What do they do? The pilot is what saying one thing to the tower and the tower repeats it, repeat what was said and who said it. Because they don't want any misunderstanding. The Daisy: Yeah. David Lengyel: same thing with firefighters going into a burning building. They're talking to the company commander outside who said what, what was said. And it's not because they care about the building, because they don't want people to get hurt. And that's the whole point. It's just that when all these other times, when we don't see a real risk, then all of a sudden we don't communicate that well. And so that's the that's the main key is that communications isn't just to get things done. Communications is to get people to take a risk, always. But that's the point. Everything's risky. if I'm asking you to do something, there's the risk of you doing it wrong. There's a risk of you making me upset. There's the risk of you maybe losing your job or costing us money or getting hurt. So the point is, I need to give you all the information so you can make the right decisions to move forward and mitigate the risk, if that makes sense. And so as the person who's maybe talking to you, I need to make sure that I think to myself, I'm asking this person to take a risk. You may not have the personality, you may not have the comfort zone to say, wait, I don't really understand that. And then you just go try and do something and it's wrong. And that's what happens in schools, right? we just stand there and we lecture and then we tell all the kids what to do. But we don't really and we say we want questions, but you know what? We're always just really busy. Because the minute I have to answer a question, then I'm taking time away from everybody else. And so the point is we're not really trained to be assertive, to be asking questions to follow up and clarify. But that's really the point. And so that if you think about big companies with a lot of money that are making a lot of money, people just think it's like monopoly money. And it's not. It's real money. I don't care if it's you know, if it's millions of dollars, they have millions of dollars worth of cost, also. And so the point is. Everything is real. The risk is always real of getting in trouble, losing your job, costing money, just making somebody upset, or physically getting hurt. And so that's the whole point. Communications drives action, but actions are risky. And so it starts with leadership, but then we have to make sure all the team members under the stand. Because if a team is working together, they've got to be able to communicate internally. So they can all move forward together and be able to trust each other in terms of what's going on. Daisy: Thank you so much, David. That is so correct. 'Cause I notice a lot of the time in workplaces, most buses they don't really they don't really focus on the communication part, right? They just tell you, this is what I want you to do and they don't really care if you're understanding or or not, just do it, just get it done, you know. And they just leave it. And when there's David Lengyel: Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Well that's Daisy: a mistake, they start blaming and start blaming and always David Lengyel: Well that's that's the challenge. if you if you really think about it, people who get into management and leadership positions or founders, they were good at something, right? They were they excelled more than other people, right? They had a level of experience and so now they got put into management. But that doesn't mean they're good at working with people. They were just good at doing something, selling more stuff, making more stuff, and they were Daisy: Yeah. Mm-hmm. David Lengyel: they were in control. They sacrificed, they were accountable, they gave up, they showed up, they participated, they did better than the other people around them. So now they're leaders. But but and so the Daisy: Mm-hmm. David Lengyel: biggest challenge they have to begin with is remember they were in control to get to that position, and now they've got to learn to let go of the control. And that's really hard. Because they're so used to being in control. And now they've Daisy: Yeah. David Lengyel: got to give give others the responsibility. So that's number one that they have to learn. Number two, we go back to communications. If you think about this, most leaders and managers, like I mentioned, they're really they think they're good at it, but they're really not. when they're talking to people, they're not really listening to what you say a lot of times. They're just thinking about what they're going to say, how they're going to respond and talk you into their way of thinking, if you follow me. Daisy: Yeah. David Lengyel: And that's different. And or as an example, they may say, Hey, I'm open to all new ideas. Bring me your ideas. But here's what really happens. Somebody brings them an idea, and that manager or leader is looking at that person who's speaking, and they're indirectly thinking, What's their what's their job title? How much money do they make? What's their education? What's their background? What do Daisy: Okay. David Lengyel: they look like? what's their personality like? Whatever. They're qualifying the person. In terms of should I really pay attention to your idea, right? Instead of really listening. And a prime example is let's just say you have a problem at a company, and you have some high school kid come in and give you an idea of how to solve the problem, or his opinion, or her opinion. But then you also have some PhD guy come in from the university and give you an opinion. Well, what are you gonna give what are you gonna give more value to? The val the the the The information from the the professor or from the high school kid. Well, of course it's going to be the professor because you think he's so smart. And that's the Daisy: From the professor. Yeah. Mm-hmm. David Lengyel: problem. Is that is that the people like the managers who have all this experience or the professor, they see things a certain way with so much background and it puts blinders on us. The kid without any experience, the level of curiosity, sees things a lot differently. And that doesn't mean one is right or one is wrong. But there's all kinds of examples around the world with global products where somebody saw something that had no experience, that then the people with experience were able to build on and create big changes that changed products or safety or marketing or customer service or whatever it might be. My point is that the curiosity and lack of experience. Is truly just as valuable. But that's what managers have to see. Because very rarely does anybody ever come in with a new idea and they see the whole thing. How to start, the middle, and the end. Somebody will see something, and then somebody else will build on it. And then somebody else builds off of it. And then somebody else builds because all of a sudden it cracked the door, if you know what I mean. Daisy: Yeah. David Lengyel: And and that and that again, that doesn't mean they're all right, but we have to be all open to new ideas. Because here's the point. It's really simple. There is nobody in business today who's doing things today the way they were doing it fifteen years ago. No way. And there's nobody in business today doing things today the way they're going to be doing it fifteen years from now. They can't be. Daisy: Yeah no. David Lengyel: Companies have got to solve, they've got to evolve. And the other thing is like yourself, is like w I mean, are most companies started by young people or are they started by old people? Started by young people. Daisy: Yeah. David Lengyel: They are, because young people, even though maybe they don't have the capital, they have, they have this curiosity. They have this lack of experience, which means they don't know why they've not, why they may fail. They just are gonna give it a try, right? They're gonna give Daisy: Yeah. David Lengyel: it a shot. They have a lot of energy, they have a new idea. And that's the way most companies started. And then with time, they got successful, and then they hire more people, and then they get fat. And then they get lazy and they get entrenched doing it because it's secure. But Daisy: Mm-hmm. David Lengyel: companies have got to change, right? And and the older people get, what do we do? The older we get, we're like, I can't do that because I don't have enough money or I don't have the background or I don't know how I would sell it or I don't know how to find the market. I put all these reasons why I can't do it in front of me because I'm so smart now and so experienced, if that makes sense. Whereas when you're Daisy: Yeah. David Lengyel: young, you just give it a shot. Daisy: Sure. David Lengyel: Yeah, yeah. Daisy: Very true. So what are the key ingredients of trust within a team and how can leaders build with it more intentional? Yeah. David Lengyel: Trust is a big deal, obviously. And again, I go back to families, relationships, or or teams. trust, of course, is never something that you're just given. You have to earn it. And trust is really simply just a matter of what people experience based on what is said or what the expectations are. And so if I tell you, let's just say I give you a box. And I tell you the box is red, and you open it up and the box is blue, then you're gonna not trust me because I told you it was red. It's that simple. People Daisy: Mm-hmm. David Lengyel: have a tendency, the trust is only based on what I experienced, based on what I was supposed to experience. So that's based on what I heard or what my expectations were. You know what? In a relationship, are you gonna be honest? then I find out you're not honest. You told me you were honest, but you're not, right? Whatever it may be. So I can put motivational posters on the wall and I can have big, long speeches about how we're a team and how we're gonna treat people. But unless you feel that, then you don't trust me. So the reality is this, and that is if I'm trying to build trust with a team, either do what you say or don't say anything. Because if I go back to the box idea, if I give you a box and you open it up and it's red. Then you're just gonna believe it's a red box. That's what it is, right? If Daisy: Mm-hmm. David Lengyel: I had told you, no, it's a blue box and you find out it's a red box, now I've hurt myself and I don't have the trust. So if you're not gonna fall through, don't say anything. I don't care if it's with a customer. I don't care, of course, whether it's a team member, whatever it may be. Daisy: So how do you work? How do you work David Lengyel: So it's really Go ahead. Daisy: with someone like that? Like someone you don't trust, how do you how do you do it? How do you deal with hurts at the workplace? David Lengyel: What's a hell of question? Daisy: No. David Lengyel: Yeah, no, I I that's a that's obviously it depends on what the relationships are. And you know, people work with people all the time that aren't necessarily good close friends, but that doesn't mean they don't trust them. They just don't maybe necessarily have a lot in common on a social level that they're gonna have that type of personality connection. I've had some of the most important people that work for us who aren't necessarily good friends. But that didn't mean that they weren't well respected and they weren't with us for many, many, many years and were very successful. But they just had a certain role and a certain strength. And so even though maybe you weren't personally good friends, you certainly had a lot of of respect for what they brought to the team. Trust is totally different though. if you have a lack of trust, then again we go back to then that's gonna be based on not being able to fulfill an expectation that they give you that you're having. whatever it is, show up with honesty, b whatever. How you can ever work with somebody that you don't trust, it's gonna be a pretty isolated type of job. I don't know the answer. I mean Because I think you're always just gonna be isolated, even though you may be working next to them. You basically are gonna be a bunch of individuals. Because either way, I have to still be able to communicate with you. If I if you're on my team for whatever kind of relationship, there's got to be that reliance and a certain level of trust that you're gonna do in terms of what it is that we're responsible to do together. It doesn't mean that I'm gonna rely on you for everything else because maybe that has nothing to do with our job. But in terms of whatever is our relationship is on the job, if you don't have trust, I don't know how you'd ever work through it. Daisy: Okay, true. Very true. Okay, so when you don't have trust, or rather when you notice that you can't trust this person, would you say a healthy thing to do is to leave that work and find something else or just deal with it for as long as you can? David Lengyel: Yeah, obviously that's an personal point. I I believe that everybody's life is a reflection of the questions they ask themselves, number one. The more questions you ask and the more honest answers you give, then the more satisfied you're going to be. Everybody has different needs. And again, I go back to even somebody coming out of high school or college. You know, ask somebody, well, what do you want to do? And they'll be like, I don't know. Well, okay, that's fine. Well, you're gonna have to get a job somewhere. But so ask yourself, is there a particular industry you wanna work in? Do you wanna live in the city? Do you wanna live in the country? Is the most important thing to make money? Is the more important thing to have family and friends around? I don't know, but the more you ask at the more you can you can you can answer those types of questions will help point you in the direction that's gonna end up being more satisfying. dealing whatever the challenges are that you're dealing with. Because the point is you can't do everything. And so you're going to sacrifice something, right? You can really be anything you want, work in any industry you want. That doesn't mean you're going to be maybe a professional soccer player or you're going to be an astronaut, but you could certainly work within the space agency, or you could work within the professional sports field if that's really what you wanted to do, right? But you've got to decide what it is that I want to do and what am I willing to sacrifice? What's the most important thing? So now let's just go back to a team because the challenge is people stay on teams all the time, then they're unhappy. I I hear it all the time. People stay on teams, why? Because they're they get paid a certain amount of money and they can't afford to leave. Well, that's a pretty you know, that's a pretty, pretty bad situation. Because we can keep making excuses for ourselves, but with time, as you get older, you're gonna realize that the money wasn't so important, that the environment and the relationships and what you end up doing becomes more and more valuable and more critical. And so you're now even gonna be more unhappy or it's more difficult to leave or make a change. And so my suggestion is is Daisy: Yeah. David Lengyel: that you need to ask yourself those questions, make the change earlier than later. Because sooner or later you're going to end up making that change, or you're going to be very unhappy for a variety of reasons, whatever the situation is. you know, the my feelings are always that people don't stay on teams just to make money. You can go make money anywhere. The whole point is people will stay on teams because they usually like the team they work on, they like the people they work with, they believe in what it is they do, you know. People stay on teams a lot of times where they can go make more money somewhere else. And so the point is is that, the most the most stable and happy people are ones that take on challenges and like the people they work with, whether it's individually or on a team. I don't care if you're a sole proprietor. You know, in a company, teams don't grow and become happy because you give free lunches or because there's free massages or foosball tables. They grow and get happy Daisy: Mm-hmm. David Lengyel: because of the challenges they take on and the confidence they they build in terms of solving problems around whatever the job is. But again, go back to leadership. That's going to be a reflection of giving them responsibilities and being as clear as possible. Because you can't hold people accountable if there's no communications, if they don't even know what to do. People need to know what the rules are so that the Opportunities are there. Otherwise, people are going to with time disengage and not be on the team. And here's the point. A person will leave a team long before they ever walk out the door. And that doesn't help anybody, if you know what I mean. Daisy: Yeah. Very true. Thank you so much, David. lastly I'm just going to ask if you could give every new manager one piece of advice, what would it be and why? David Lengyel: Can't give them one, but I give them a bunch. I guess what w one would be look in the mirror and manage yourself. Realize you're really good at something and you should celebrate that. But but you're not perfect. And nobody expects you to be perfect. Surround yourself with people that have a lot of skill and then give them the responsibility. But it's up to you to make sure you communicate well so they understand whatever it is that you want them to do so how they can get involved. That's number one. Number two, don't forget the people who got you to where you are, because you didn't do it alone. You had other types of support to get there. And that just because you finally get to that point of leadership, it's not over. It's a long journey, ups and downs. So often, once we get to be managers, we have a tendency to kind of self-sabotage ourselves. And we start thinking that the rules don't apply to us anymore. Well, they do, even more so. And so you're still gonna sacrifice, you're still gonna have to be committed a hundred percent, but now you're responsible for all those other people. And it's a lot more difficult managing people than it is working with a product or even with a customer, because those are all finite, whereas teams are there forever. And so then the the final thing is again, realize that you've got to make sure you believe what you understand what you believe in. So that you can get those ideas off to the team that rely on you and don't wait for the pressure. You gotta communicate all the time because if you wait until the pressure's on, then you're gonna get too emotional and people aren't gonna lead that to emotion. Daisy: Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for joining me today. I really appreciate it. Thank you for enlightening us on all of this knowledge it's been so great listening to you. the person I had I the person I spoke to earlier said something about podcasts being a way to get advice and knowledge from people who have had experiences with a lot of practical stuff like this and he was so right, you know. So thank you so much, David. also I'm going to drop your link so people can have access to your additional leadership, communication and team performance resources. So thank you so much. looking forward to hearing from you again, hopefully. David Lengyel: You bet. Well I wish you luck, Daisy. It's it's a it's a journey and it's Daisy: Germany David Lengyel: always an adventure. And I tell you with the age of AI, you're like the perfect age to get involved with it and amplify things and move forward. Daisy: Thank you so much. Thank you. Have a great one. Bye. David Lengyel: Take care. Bye bye. Daisy: Yeah.